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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four

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Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer a Enius Williams. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I'm in Nius Williams.

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Speaker 1: The impact of the death of George Floyd has led

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Speaker 1: to protests nationwide and a re examining of social justice

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Speaker 1: in race relations throughout North America. Today we have one

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Speaker 1: of the great NFL families who will discuss their experiences

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Speaker 1: and their hopes for a way forward. Together with us

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Speaker 1: today is Hardy Nicholson, Sr. Who played sixteen seasons in

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Speaker 1: the NFL, with five Pro Bowls and to All Pro

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Speaker 1: Nods at middle linebacker. When we started the Legends community,

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Speaker 1: he was a director of the Pacific Agregion. Also with

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Speaker 1: us is his son, Hardy Jr. Also an inside linebacker

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Speaker 1: who played the last three seasons in Cincinnati and is

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Speaker 1: currently a free agent. And we also have the Hardies

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Speaker 1: of all hardies, Hardy Nickoson's wife, Amy, who if you

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Speaker 1: think playing middle linebacker is rough, try doing this. She's

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Speaker 1: a wife, a mother three, an educator, has a master's degree,

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Speaker 1: and now author of the book how do you see Us?

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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone, Thank you, thank you. As I want to

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Speaker 1: start just by checking in. We're living in tough, uncertain times.

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Speaker 1: How is everyone doing with this COVID ninety pandemic. Thankfully,

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Speaker 1: our family is doing great. We're healthy and we are safe.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I haven't had any any kind of

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Speaker 1: problems at all. I'm thankful for that. It's been a

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Speaker 1: little you know, it's certainly changed our way of living,

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Speaker 1: but but we are healthy. What's the big chill has

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Speaker 1: been with my inside line doctors? Um? I think I

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Speaker 1: think the biggest challenge for us and and uh and

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Speaker 1: for the household has just been those little things that

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Speaker 1: you rely on every single day, that that that you

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Speaker 1: just can't you can't take part in, or you just

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Speaker 1: can't do anymore. Uh, like going to the gym uh

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Speaker 1: you know, Uh, simple tasks like going to the grocery

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Speaker 1: store is is uh you know something that that has

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Speaker 1: to be planned out, um now instead of just hopping

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Speaker 1: in the car and driving to the store, getting out,

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Speaker 1: going in the grocery store picking up what you want,

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Speaker 1: or even browsing, you know, and oh do I want

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Speaker 1: do I want this orange? And filling the orange or

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Speaker 1: avocado or you know, things to change now, you know,

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Speaker 1: and now it's a process where you know, before you

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Speaker 1: leave home, you make sure you have a rubber loves,

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Speaker 1: your hand sanitizer, disinfectant. Uh, you know, every little thing

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Speaker 1: is like, wow, I gotta I gotta make sure I

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Speaker 1: got everything so that I uh do the best that

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Speaker 1: I can to keep myself safe. So, um, just those

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Speaker 1: things have been been, uh, quite a change for us.

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Speaker 1: And you know it's been it's been quite an adjustment.

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Speaker 1: And I would say the pandemic wasn't enough the impact

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Speaker 1: of George Floyd's death. Now we have civil unrest in

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Speaker 1: Minneapolis on top of a pandemic. I'm a little used

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Speaker 1: to it and being on the ground floor back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen with Mike Brown and Officer Darren

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Speaker 1: Wilson tragedy, and now it's almost like being revisited again.

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Speaker 1: So I worked in Ferguson and also doing some of

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Speaker 1: the work with the league on the Player's Coalition. I

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Speaker 1: want to start with you, Amy, and particularly what your

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Speaker 1: book you published in two thousand nineteen, and the book

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Speaker 1: took on the issues that have now come to the

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Speaker 1: forefront of American Dispose just a year later. Take me

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Speaker 1: through the experience of watching the very things you wrote

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Speaker 1: about play out across the entire nation. Amy. Wow. Yes.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like if anybody's familiar with the movie

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Speaker 1: Groundhome Day from Back and I don't know, the nineties,

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Speaker 1: it just over and over and over again, and I

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Speaker 1: cannot believe can things continue to happen? Um? You know?

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Speaker 1: And I was talking to a friend the other day

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Speaker 1: and I was saying, you know, with respect to just

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Speaker 1: what's happening right now. We weren't finished running for a

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Speaker 1: mod are married, and then George Floyd happened, and then

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Speaker 1: we weren't finished. We just finished Barry and George Floyd.

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Speaker 1: And now we've got race Yard Brooks in Atlanta at

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Speaker 1: the Wendy's and so much more. We've got a word

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Speaker 1: of of a lynching in in southern California. It just

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Speaker 1: seems like the powder keg has finally just been unleashed.

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Speaker 1: And I was compiling all these stories and why I

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Speaker 1: wrote my book was because, um, I was always somebody

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Speaker 1: who would take to social media on Facebook generally to

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Speaker 1: just kind of share my pain about whatever I saw.

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Speaker 1: And as you mentioned in the you know, um Ferguson

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Speaker 1: and Mike Brown, and then Freddie Gray and then the

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Speaker 1: name you know, it goes on and actually back even

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Speaker 1: when Trayvon Martin was killed and I think two thousand twelve,

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Speaker 1: I just was always a poster and sharing things, and

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Speaker 1: I would always link it to things that happened to us.

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Speaker 1: Thankfully we weren't ever killed or or arrested, even but

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Speaker 1: the fear that I have from my family, from my

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Speaker 1: my husband particularly, and my son, my black son, and

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Speaker 1: seeing them in all of these people who have murdered, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it just struck something in me. And so I was

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Speaker 1: always posting. And then someone suggested that I should write,

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Speaker 1: and I did, and it turned into a book. It

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Speaker 1: was supposed to just be an essay, but I had

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Speaker 1: so much to tell that that's what happened, and much

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Speaker 1: of the book has to read of sharing your experiences

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Speaker 1: through your eyes and voice. Why is it so important

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Speaker 1: for Caucasians to understand what it is like being African

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Speaker 1: American in this country? Yeah? I mean I pretty much

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Speaker 1: wrote this book for Caucasians, uh, and and people who

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Speaker 1: are non black only because I find that most black people,

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Speaker 1: not everybody, but most black people that I know have

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Speaker 1: similar stories and we're not unique in that respect. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that we continue to have all these things

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Speaker 1: happened to us. I mean, I've had witnessed things happen

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Speaker 1: to us that happened to my parents, and they were

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Speaker 1: raised in the Jim Crows Out. I felt that we

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Speaker 1: should have been made, should have made much more progress,

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Speaker 1: and not be seeing this by now. But I wrote

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Speaker 1: it primarily to help our white brothers and sisters really

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Speaker 1: understand that there's a lot of stuff that they do, um,

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Speaker 1: and maybe unwittingly and sometimes consciously that creates all this stuff. UM.

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Speaker 1: For example, you know the reason I call it, how

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Speaker 1: do you see us? And if you see the book cover,

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Speaker 1: I have a picture of my family, and then I

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Speaker 1: have a picture of black glasses showing distortions of my family.

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Speaker 1: Meaning you know, we are what we are, and we're

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Speaker 1: sitting there happy and smiling. But what is seen through

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Speaker 1: these these lenses is something that is not us. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like that is like a metaphor for what

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Speaker 1: I see happening in society, where you could just be

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Speaker 1: walking down the street mining your own business, but perhaps

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Speaker 1: your black skin elicits a negative risk fonts. Maybe someone

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Speaker 1: thinks you might be a criminal, Maybe somebody thinks you

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Speaker 1: might be about to take their purse. It's run the

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Speaker 1: gamut with our family with respect to accusations or or

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Speaker 1: people calling the police or things like that. But what

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Speaker 1: we must do is change how we are seeing, how

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Speaker 1: we are valued. Um, black lives, Black lives must matter.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of times when things have happened like

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Speaker 1: these killings, or or even if it's not a killing,

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Speaker 1: but it's just an altercation or disagreement or someone yelling

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Speaker 1: at you in the park. Um, we really have to

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Speaker 1: unpack how they're seeing us and what it is they

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Speaker 1: see and ultimately, we just want people to see themselves

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Speaker 1: in us. My follow up question, Amy, you stepped on

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Speaker 1: or we're willing to step on potential land minds. Once

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Speaker 1: you decide to share your experiences and your voice on

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Speaker 1: social media, what gave you the boldness to do it?

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Speaker 1: Because you can also get affirmation, positive feedback, but you

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Speaker 1: can also get people that are downright mean that will

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Speaker 1: respond to your story. Right, and you're right, there are

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Speaker 1: trolls out there. Um, you know, I guess I would

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Speaker 1: just say and this My mother was an activist she

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Speaker 1: came from New Orleans too, and had been through all

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Speaker 1: kinds of stuff in her day down there. And I

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Speaker 1: was just taught in my family, we got to stand

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Speaker 1: up for what's right, We got to speak up. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I've gotten into a few dances with people

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Speaker 1: from speaking my truth. But one thing I know is

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Speaker 1: that my truth is my truth. And you know what

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Speaker 1: what I attempt to do is not try to beat

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Speaker 1: anybody over the head with it. But I have had

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Speaker 1: people who, you know, whether I don't know, it was

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Speaker 1: one time when I was speaking my truth about how

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Speaker 1: we felt about the flag or whatever and what the

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Speaker 1: situation about what I thought wasn't necess necessarily disrespectful, blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah, and then you get ness maybe people who

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Speaker 1: challenge that. I think that's just part of American society

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Speaker 1: where you always have different differences of opinion, but it's

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Speaker 1: in how you tackle um the engagement. And you know,

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Speaker 1: some people I really did have to block. I just

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't like to add why did you

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Speaker 1: say that or whatever? And I don't believe that. I

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Speaker 1: had somebody actually come on one of my posts saying

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Speaker 1: they just didn't believe one of the stories I told

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Speaker 1: because it did sound I guess to them sounded so

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Speaker 1: far fetched, but it was true. I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: something that happened that was racist. So I guess what

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Speaker 1: yah to answer your question is I just I guess

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Speaker 1: you just say I'm bold. And I realized that there

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Speaker 1: probably could be some issues. But you know what, we

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Speaker 1: aren't where we didn't get through the civil rights movement

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Speaker 1: or any other movements with people being shy. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to like speak the truth. Are we now

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Speaker 1: having the national conversations that you try to start with

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Speaker 1: your book? You think, I really think we have begun?

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Speaker 1: I I do think there's more room for discussions, definitely,

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Speaker 1: but I will I cannot tell you how many white

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Speaker 1: people that I've had writing me and emailing me and

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Speaker 1: posting on post saying please I hear you. I'm an ally.

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Speaker 1: This is just too much. And for for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: right now, at this moment, there is just, you know,

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Speaker 1: a growing mass of people who we need to know

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Speaker 1: that this stuff happens, and and and and not just

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Speaker 1: to know, but to help us change policies and make

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Speaker 1: it so that things don't continue on. Uh, They're listening,

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Speaker 1: and and I'm not no, I'm not saying that we're

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Speaker 1: where we at the endpoint, but I do believe we're

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Speaker 1: at a space now where I mean, I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: the Wall Wall Street Journal, I'm looking at all of

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Speaker 1: the New York Times all over the place, where people

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Speaker 1: are discussing, Hey, whoa the elephant in the room, And

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Speaker 1: I am really pleased about that because we must do it.

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Speaker 1: And Hardy seeing you in the book, there were instances

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Speaker 1: where you faced either police of public scrutiny for regular

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Speaker 1: things like driving, being at the park to moving into

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Speaker 1: a new house. How would you describe those experiences? Almost dehumanizing,

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Speaker 1: you know, because when you read books or magazines, there's

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Speaker 1: always just this picture of what the American dream is

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Speaker 1: is supposed to look like, or you know, how you

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Speaker 1: achieved the American dream. And you know, here I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, playing professional football and recently graduated from University

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Speaker 1: of California at Berkeley, and you know, just a young man,

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Speaker 1: uh and and you know, not harming anybody, but they're there,

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Speaker 1: you know. Having a couple of instances. One was, um,

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Speaker 1: I was at the mall and I had gone into

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Speaker 1: the mall, came out, I bought a couple of you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe a pair of shoes or something else coming out

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Speaker 1: the mall, and I walked to my car in the

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Speaker 1: parking lot, was getting in my car, and as I'm

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Speaker 1: backing out, I noticed this guy standing right in the

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Speaker 1: middle of like where you drive in the parking lot,

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Speaker 1: not moving over to the side, but just right in

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Speaker 1: the middle. He had his hand out and uh. And

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Speaker 1: so I let my stop in front of him and said, hey, hey,

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Speaker 1: is there a problem. He says, hey, is this is

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Speaker 1: this your car? And I go, yeah, it's my car.

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Speaker 1: He goes, can I see a driver's license? And I go, wait,

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Speaker 1: who are you? He goes, this is a citizen's arrest? What?

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Speaker 1: And I go yeah. My My reaction was what Now,

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Speaker 1: I was not driving the most expensive car I you know,

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Speaker 1: I think I was driving maybe a midsize BMW at

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Speaker 1: the time, but it wasn't supposed to be my car.

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Speaker 1: And uh, that was really disheartening because you know, who

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Speaker 1: knows that could have turned into um Traybon Martin situation

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Speaker 1: right there, you know, like George Zimmerman trying to performer

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Speaker 1: citizens arrest. You know, it could have been it could

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Speaker 1: have been at It's like, wow, man, I'm I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: working and and doing everything and I'm supposed to you know,

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Speaker 1: not harmon anybody, but being viewed as man as someone

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Speaker 1: who would uh steal a car, you know. So those

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Speaker 1: are things that are just disheartening and it just ages

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Speaker 1: a perspective on a lot of things. What do you

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Speaker 1: think is the best way for African American legends to

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Speaker 1: respond to treatment that you experienced similar things like that?

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Speaker 1: What's the best way to respond? I think, um, you

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Speaker 1: know with one way is to is to write it. Um.

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Speaker 1: The other way is to is to work in creating

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Speaker 1: awareness in the communities that they live in for people

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Speaker 1: who are not a non uh not of color. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think I think that helps a ton um and

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Speaker 1: promoting uh that that in their communities will not only help,

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Speaker 1: you know, with those isolated incidences, but it also helps

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Speaker 1: an entire community, um in speaking about those types of

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Speaker 1: these types of incidences. Hardy Jr. Yeah, Now I'm already Amy,

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Speaker 1: You're just you've told me the secret now to Hardy

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Speaker 1: Junior and Hardy Senior playing inside linebacker, being tough, your

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Speaker 1: mom being from New Orleans, so I already know where

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Speaker 1: it came from. Hardy. You mayory you all kick the

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Speaker 1: coverage with my brother. The fact that your Hardy Junior.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about conversations Hardy Junior, we have in the

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Speaker 1: locker room. There's an openness there and we seem to

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Speaker 1: address the tough conversations what people who are different than

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Speaker 1: ourselves much more easily in the locker room. Then we

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Speaker 1: can and the rest of society tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: Hardy Junior. Well, I think in the locker room you

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Speaker 1: have kind of a situation that is rare in America.

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Speaker 1: You have, um, you know, most of the team is

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Speaker 1: majority black or minority um with you know, you have

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Speaker 1: your your white guys too, but UM, okay, they're forced

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Speaker 1: to kind of hear what we have to say about

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Speaker 1: certain things and try to understand why we do certain things,

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Speaker 1: why we react certain ways. So it just creates conversation.

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Speaker 1: And when you're playing a team sport, you want to

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Speaker 1: have each other's back. So in that area when you

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Speaker 1: when you take the helmet off and you're in there talking,

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Speaker 1: I think that it it It helps getting through to people,

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Speaker 1: at least to that certain amount of people so they

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Speaker 1: can go to their families and you know, if something

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Speaker 1: is said, I hope that you know our our white

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Speaker 1: teammates are addressing it in their homes and with their

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Speaker 1: other with their family members. Um. Part of that comes

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Speaker 1: down to you have to know your teammate and you

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Speaker 1: have to know what they're going through on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: why you can't say certain things to them, why certain

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Speaker 1: things might be offensive. And in the locker room you

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Speaker 1: have kind of just a free a free area just

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Speaker 1: to say whatever you want to say. Um, And things

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Speaker 1: get addressed a lot. We deal with a lot of

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Speaker 1: racial talks and conversations about what's going on in society

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Speaker 1: all the time, just about every day. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: uh for for people who don't play football or who

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Speaker 1: haven't been in a in a locker room setting. It's

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Speaker 1: unlike anything else in America where you can just you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of educate people at a face to face level.

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Speaker 1: Would you recommend Hardy Jr. That guys before they go

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Speaker 1: and post things alive, if they would pass things by

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Speaker 1: teammates that are of different ethnicities, we can end up

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Speaker 1: kind of derailing some of the things. We have to

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Speaker 1: go later on apologize. Did you you understand what I

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Speaker 1: mean by that? In other words, get in the locker

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Speaker 1: room sharing different things. How you see something which now

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Speaker 1: gives our African American brothers are Caucasian bro this a

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Speaker 1: platform to somebody the locker room may say, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say that. In other words, being able to check each other.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Definitely, And it's it's something that

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Speaker 1: unless you are black, you don't know what it's like

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Speaker 1: or what. So you if you are why do you

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Speaker 1: see something and you want to just say something on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook? UM,

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Speaker 1: just your initial reaction, I think you do have to

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Speaker 1: ask your brothers. You know, hey, I'm thinking this is

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Speaker 1: this the right train of thought, because if you do

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Speaker 1: post or or say something to the media or whoever, UM,

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Speaker 1: there can be backlash and there can be you know, guys,

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Speaker 1: guys not agreeing with you and then divide on the

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Speaker 1: team and just kind of just a pitball effected just UM.

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Speaker 1: So it's definitely necessary that those conversations are are had

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Speaker 1: before UM any quick reaction to the media or or

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Speaker 1: to a story or to what they but what they

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Speaker 1: believe at the time, UM is addressed. Okay, this is

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Speaker 1: such an important issue that we're going to make it

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Speaker 1: a two parter. Stay tuned for part two of our podcasts.

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Speaker 1: This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback

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Speaker 1: or request a topic for discussion, email us at NFL

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Speaker 1: Legends at nfl dot com.