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Speaker 1: Bushkin.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, what's up. It's me W Cambell. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: episode six of my podcast Who's with Me? As you

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Speaker 2: can see, I'm not in the usual studio you know

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Speaker 2: in rabbit Gren Productions in La I'm here in Oakland

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Speaker 2: in my office and I had to do a lot

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Speaker 2: of work to get the shot to look this good.

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Speaker 1: So enjoy and maybe we'll improve it. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: This was a lot of work anyway. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: joining in this week. Last week was d V Diggs.

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Speaker 2: Great conversation with d V talking about being a new dad,

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Speaker 2: talking about the power of Oakland and East Bay, talking

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Speaker 2: about uh, why he works so hard and people say

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Speaker 2: I work hard, So I understand that sometimes you just

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Speaker 2: feel pulled to work hard and pulled to your creative voice,

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Speaker 2: but also you want.

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Speaker 1: To be home.

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Speaker 2: This week, our guest is nav A mau Is an

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Speaker 2: actress who was most notably known for the series Baby

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Speaker 2: Reindeer on Netflix that was one of those like series

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Speaker 2: everybody talked about for several months. It won a ton

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Speaker 2: of awards, and today we're gonna talk about her career,

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Speaker 2: her new short film, and also we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about what happened in the wake of all those.

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Speaker 1: Accolades for Baby Reindeer. It's an interesting conversation, Aaron.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk a little bit about middle aged comedians

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Speaker 2: who do jokes about trans people when they clearly don't

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Speaker 2: know much about trans people. We're gonna get into all

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Speaker 2: of it. And this is the last week of Pride,

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Speaker 2: I think, so if I'm doing my June calendar right. Also,

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Speaker 2: a couple days ago, it was Father's Day. I'm a dad.

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Speaker 2: Me and my three daughters hung out on Father's Day.

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Speaker 2: We went to do the thing that you do on

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Speaker 2: Father's Day, you go see the new Pixar movie. So

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Speaker 2: we saw Toy Story. Five thumbs up from me. Hope

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Speaker 2: I can borrow that from the late great Roger Ebert.

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Speaker 2: The focus was on Jesse. We're a big toy Story family.

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Speaker 2: In our family. We like all those movies.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're a little, but they're all They're all great.

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Speaker 2: A Toy Story movie is better than most movies. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: we enjoyed it. And then me and my youngest went

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Speaker 2: to a June teenth celebration in Berkeley, California. So I

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Speaker 2: did all the things a dad is supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: On Father's Day. I went to a big Hollywood movie,

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Speaker 2: went to a Juneteenth celebration. That's all the things you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to do when your dad on Father's Day. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is the last week of Pride. Last week I

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Speaker 2: talked about the letter T in the LGBTQIA, But this

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Speaker 2: week I sort of want to talk about how I

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Speaker 2: came to be what I would like to think is

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Speaker 2: not only an ally of the LGBTQ plus community, but

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Speaker 2: also a co conspirator, like I'm down to get into

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Speaker 2: the shit with them when the shit hits, you know.

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Speaker 2: When I moved to the Bear in nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 2: I've talked about this before. I think I knew one

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Speaker 2: openly gay person in Chicago, which doesn't mean there weren't

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Speaker 2: a lot of openly gay people in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Maybe just wanted to be open to me.

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Speaker 2: I was really you know, it's weird to think of

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Speaker 2: myself as a homophobe, but I really was like level

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Speaker 2: one homophobe in that I was nervous around gay people.

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Speaker 2: You know, and I was in my early twenties, which

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Speaker 2: is probably too old. But also it was the nineties,

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Speaker 2: so maybe it was right on brand for the nineties

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Speaker 2: being a heterosexuals cist gender dude in the nineties. I

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Speaker 2: remember one time my friends after a comedy show were like,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna go to this club and hang out, and

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Speaker 2: it was a it was a gay night club. I

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Speaker 2: remember going to this gay night club and I just

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Speaker 2: walked around the whole time and never stopped.

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Speaker 1: Moving because I was afraid the guy was going to

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Speaker 1: hit him me and I wouldn't know how to tell

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Speaker 1: him I wasn't gay.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, I'll be like a shark, and

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Speaker 2: I just won't stop moving, and I'm sure I just

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Speaker 2: looked like a fool. I also lived adjacent to the

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Speaker 2: neighbor in Chicago that we colloquially called Boystown, which was

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Speaker 2: the gay man neighborhoods with the castro of Chicago. I

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Speaker 2: remember one night I was riding home on my bike

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Speaker 2: and I cut through Boystown.

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Speaker 1: I remember being nervous about all the because it was light.

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Speaker 2: It was like a Friday Saturday night and all the

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Speaker 2: gay guys were out in the streets having a good time,

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Speaker 2: and what if they snatched him.

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Speaker 1: Off my bike. It was ridiculous. I was in my

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Speaker 1: early twenties.

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Speaker 2: I was literally a homophobe by the definition of I

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Speaker 2: was afraid of gay men, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then I moved out to the gay air, the

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Speaker 1: gay area. We can keep that in. And then I

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Speaker 1: moved out to the Bay Area, and I remember being shocked.

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Speaker 2: At seeing like openly gay people, like open openly gay people,

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Speaker 2: not upset or offended, but just again, this is like

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Speaker 2: leve one of home phobia, Like you're noticing things that

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Speaker 2: you don't need to be noticing. Like I remember seeing

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Speaker 2: gay men holding hands a lot, and being like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, they really are gay out here. This is

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Speaker 2: like professionally gay, you know what I mean. I remember

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Speaker 2: being like amazed at that. And then I remember going

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Speaker 2: to the Castro and being afraid again that something I

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Speaker 2: was ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: But luckily many openly gay.

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Speaker 2: People in my life saw my ridiculousness and saw that

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Speaker 2: I was not wanting to be harmful and sort of

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Speaker 2: took my hand metaphorically and sometimes literally and helped educate me,

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Speaker 2: and I guess acclimate me. And also we're super patient

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Speaker 2: with me. Is I came to understand that, like, dude, chill,

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Speaker 2: you need to relax. We're all just out here living

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Speaker 2: our lives. Shout to my friend Martha Riinberger I mentioned

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Speaker 2: last week, shout out to all the people I met

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Speaker 2: through the soul Pormers Workshop, which was this workshop he's

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Speaker 2: to teach at, and I ended up having a good

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Speaker 2: number of gay people at that workshop.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to just the Bay Area, Shout out to

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Speaker 1: Oakland from being the hub of like lesbians.

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Speaker 2: Like, so I got to sort of understand the difference

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Speaker 2: between lesbians and gay men. Of course I knew there's

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Speaker 2: a difference, but really culturally it's a wide difference. I

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Speaker 2: hope I can say that without getting in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, and then I met trans people, and I met

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Speaker 2: asexual people, and I met intersex people, and then I

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Speaker 2: met people who didn't tell me none of that because

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Speaker 2: none of my goddamn business. I just met people. Let

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Speaker 2: me understand that, Like, there's a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: are on this planet, and it takes all of us,

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Speaker 2: and if we can all live together, amazing things can happen.

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Speaker 2: So this Thursday, I'll be participating in SF Pride. In

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Speaker 2: conversation with my friend Erica Huggins, who's one of the

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Speaker 2: early leaders of the Black Panther Party. She was a

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Speaker 2: leader of the Black panther party. She was like nineteen

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Speaker 2: years old. So she still lives here in the Bay Area,

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Speaker 2: lives in Oakland, and I'm lucky to become friendly with her.

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Speaker 2: One time, she actually threatened to show up my kid's

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Speaker 2: school because my kid was having a problem with the teacher.

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Speaker 1: She's like, do you need me to come by? I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, but thank you, Eric Huggins.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I just want to say, yeah, it has

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Speaker 2: been the blessing of my life. When I moved to

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Speaker 2: the Bay Area just to do stand up comedy, I

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Speaker 2: actually ended up opening my eyes culture to the LGBTQ

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Speaker 2: plus community and also so many other communities.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Went out to talk about how I didn't know what

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Speaker 2: Filipinos were until I moved out here.

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Speaker 1: But that's for another episode.

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Speaker 2: My guest today is nav A Mao. Nava Mao is

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Speaker 2: a transgender actress. She talks about being transgender. She'll starts

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Speaker 2: about being an actress. In today's episode, we have a

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Speaker 2: wide ranging conversation. She talks about her new short film

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Speaker 2: that's out right now. You can see it on her website.

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Speaker 2: It's called All the Words, But the one we talk

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Speaker 2: about how Baby Reindeer was This huge global hit, and

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Speaker 2: what happened for her after she was in a show

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Speaker 2: that was a huge global hit and she got a

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Speaker 2: lot of nominations for lots of awards for And we

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Speaker 2: also talk about, as I said, middle aged comedians who

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Speaker 2: can't seem to stop doing jokes about transgender people.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 2: If you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share, hit

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Speaker 2: the hype button. I hear it makes all the difference.

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Speaker 2: Please like, subscribe, share, hit the hype button. Thank you anyway,

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Speaker 2: ont who's with me?

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for coming, of.

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Speaker 3: Course, thank you for having me so exciting.

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Speaker 2: It's exciting for me because you know, my podcast is

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Speaker 2: still fairly new, and I feel like most of them

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Speaker 2: relying on people who I are like good friends of

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Speaker 2: mine or people who I have interacted with, like you,

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Speaker 2: who I admire and would want to talk to. And

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Speaker 2: so you know, the fact you said yes means a

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Speaker 2: lot to me.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, no, I I was an immediate yes.

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Speaker 3: I had no question it was. It was really nice

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Speaker 3: talking to you last time we talked.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So our first time we talked was on the

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Speaker 2: ACLU podcast Yeah yeah, which they probably edit a lot

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Speaker 2: of it out because you know the ACLU podcast, which

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Speaker 2: I love the ACU, but they have very strict parameters.

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Speaker 1: Of things they can talk about.

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Speaker 3: I don't even remember.

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Speaker 2: I mean I probably I probably thinking about it more

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Speaker 2: than the guests are allowed to talk. But there's things

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Speaker 2: I'm like, Man, I really like to ask this question,

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Speaker 2: but not this is not the format. Yeah, now we're

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Speaker 2: in the more open format. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we had to be serious, you know, we had

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Speaker 3: to get into the.

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Speaker 2: Issue and getting this is no no shade to the

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Speaker 2: a CLU. I love the still a part of the

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Speaker 2: a CLU, still running the commercials, but yeah, I just

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Speaker 2: want to say so. I just was like, oh, I'd

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Speaker 2: like to talk to her again in a less First

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Speaker 2: Amendment format, although we will use the First Amendment.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: So I open on giving people their flowers because I

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Speaker 2: feel like in these hectic times that people need to

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Speaker 2: hear what, you know, the amazing things they're doing, because

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Speaker 2: sometimes we caught up in ourselves and not thinking about

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Speaker 2: So I just want to say I'm so impressed with

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Speaker 2: Like I was so impressed with even Baby Reindeer, Like

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Speaker 2: that was where a lot of us met you, as

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Speaker 2: in Baby Reindeer and the way you sort of like

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Speaker 2: you know, am I I am not too old to

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Speaker 2: say eight to that show.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to say it. You left no problems.

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Speaker 1: My kids say what I try to say these things?

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Speaker 3: I think I think officially the official term is that

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Speaker 3: I ate the performance.

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Speaker 2: Le my kids are watching like ah, so, just the

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Speaker 2: power that you brought to that role. And I'm a

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Speaker 2: person who, when I am watching TV or anything, if

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Speaker 2: I'm compelled by something, I'm like, wait, hold on.

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Speaker 1: So you were probably like.

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Speaker 2: Wait, let me google this person, like, let me find

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Speaker 2: out everything's going on with this person, so I can

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Speaker 2: appreciate what I'm getting here. So, and that's why I

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Speaker 2: found out you had been connected to Oakland. You've lived

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Speaker 2: in Oakland, where as people know I currently live and

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Speaker 2: will always live, probably because my kids won't let me move.

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Speaker 2: And then the way that you've been since that show,

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Speaker 2: just the advocacy you're doing, the way you're sort of

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Speaker 2: living life out loud in public and not in any

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Speaker 2: way cowd or bowed in a time when people we

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Speaker 2: all have reasons to be cowd and boud, but certainly

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Speaker 2: someone like you does, Like I just appreciate the fact

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Speaker 2: that you are just doing the damn.

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Speaker 1: Thing, you know, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I kind of feel like I have no choice,

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Speaker 3: you know. It's like, yeah, it's it's the only way

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Speaker 3: I think to be in these times. And it's not

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Speaker 3: to say that I don't feel scared or concerned about

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Speaker 3: what I say in public and and how that may

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Speaker 3: be used against me and against my community. But at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, we have to keep moving forward.

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Speaker 3: And it's what we've always done. It's it's what all

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Speaker 3: of us have always done, is try to just keep

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Speaker 3: living our lives and keep building towards the future.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think people, you know, often people say

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Speaker 2: to me, like, how do you find ways to be

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Speaker 2: funny with all the things.

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Speaker 1: You talk about?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, because I wouldn't know how to live otherwise,

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Speaker 2: Like I wouldnt know how to survive if I wasn't

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Speaker 2: trying to like make it art or make it or

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Speaker 2: sort of process it in some way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's I mean, in some ways, it was

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Speaker 3: just like it already was a lot of people's reality

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Speaker 3: that it could be unsafe to go outside. It was

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Speaker 3: already a lot of people's reality that you couldn't really

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Speaker 3: think of a future that felt abundant, you know, and

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Speaker 3: so it's like, obviously things have intensified, but to me,

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Speaker 3: it just feels like it's the same struggle, it's the

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Speaker 3: same fight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And we can get into all the details

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Speaker 2: of that. But I also want to make sure I

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Speaker 2: give you flowers. I watched your short film.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, Oh thank you for watching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's and I know you've been working for

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Speaker 2: a while, but it's been out for a while, but

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Speaker 2: now it's out, like you can go see it on.

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Speaker 1: Your website, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's called it's called

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Speaker 1: all the all the.

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Speaker 3: Words but one is Yeah, all the words, but the one.

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Speaker 1: All the words but the one. I love a long

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Speaker 1: title first of all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, and I I also I I've learned

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Speaker 2: to really I hadn't really done a lot of short

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Speaker 2: film watching, and I started going to a lot of

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Speaker 2: film festivals and being a part in seeing short films

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Speaker 2: and really appreciate the fact that in your film does

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Speaker 2: this sometimes eighteen minutes is like.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's a full film.

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Speaker 2: I feel I don't feel like I mean, I'd like

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Speaker 2: to know more of the story, yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 2: feel like I saw I thought something that was short anything.

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Speaker 3: You know, Oh yeah, I mean, which I think some

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Speaker 3: people would say, you know, scale it back, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: but it was. It was exactly what it needed to be,

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Speaker 3: and we lived a whole life, you know, the cast

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Speaker 3: that was a part of that. And thank I'm so

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Speaker 3: glad you watched thank You for Oh.

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Speaker 1: I was determined. I was like, I hope is it

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Speaker 1: because when did it drop on your website? Was it recently? So?

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Speaker 3: It had its festival runs starting in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: like concurrently with Baby Reinseer. I was actually like dropping

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Speaker 3: into festivals and doing that.

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Speaker 1: That's a good time to have another project.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It was a real like world tour, and then it

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Speaker 3: came out. It was short of the week in May

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Speaker 3: of last year. So now it's we're coming up on

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Speaker 3: the year anniversary of it being out there.

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Speaker 2: People who are outside of this business don't know how

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Speaker 2: long it takes to put out something that is eighteen

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Speaker 2: minutes longer all the festival run, the different platforms you

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Speaker 2: want to put it on, and yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and and just that it takes so long

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Speaker 3: to make it even like you know, I know, like

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Speaker 3: my parents, they they knew how hard I would work.

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Speaker 3: But then it's like, oh, come see the screening of

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Speaker 3: my twelve minute film. You know, it's like that's when

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Speaker 3: we're working out for three years. Yeah yeah, but it's

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Speaker 3: all it's all for. I think the process of making

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Speaker 3: it is actually what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is why AI won't win in

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Speaker 2: that way, because you also want you want to make something,

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Speaker 2: and you want to be involved, and you want to

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Speaker 2: be under the hood.

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Speaker 1: Making something, yes, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: Rubbing up against other people and going oh I thought this,

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Speaker 2: Oh but this is better.

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Speaker 3: I yeah, even though AI is out here, did you

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Speaker 3: see AI? There was an AI bot made a blog

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Speaker 3: post that was like a takedown piece of a human coder.

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Speaker 3: It was like the bot was like upset. The bot

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Speaker 3: was well, you know, was programmed in a way to

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Speaker 3: be able to express discontent, and yeah, I wrote a

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Speaker 3: whole blog post just like taking this coder out, and

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Speaker 3: and then it turned into this kind of like it

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Speaker 3: was like a call to action, like like we need

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Speaker 3: the AI Bill of Rights type t like it was Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was so strange. It was like it was like

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Speaker 3: and you know, humans want to talk about, you know,

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Speaker 3: making sure that the product reaches the finish line. But

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Speaker 3: the moment that it's a bot at the head of it,

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Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, oh, this is a human's job.

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Speaker 3: It was like I could Yeah, I didn't. I expect

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Speaker 3: us to be at that point already blog post takedowns,

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Speaker 3: but here.

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Speaker 2: Where like these pictures almost look real and that we're

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Speaker 2: like we demand our rights. Yes, yes, you want to

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Speaker 2: think or I want to think that, like AI taking

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Speaker 2: over humanity is like, well, that's science fiction.

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Speaker 1: But then you go it's yeah.

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Speaker 3: And you know what if you're listening AI, I don't

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Speaker 3: I don't want I don't want any problem. Okay, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'll be.

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Speaker 2: Over here doing my human thing. Yeah, that's funny. You

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Speaker 2: stand up for so many causes. But you want to

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Speaker 2: let the overlords know.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm letting the bots know specifically, you know, in

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Speaker 3: human world. We can continue, we can continue having the conversation.

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Speaker 1: About the AI bots.

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Speaker 3: I'm cool a loots specifically.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, there's one thing I'm not trying to get

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Speaker 2: mad at me right now. Yeah, the AI bots get Republicans, maga,

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Speaker 2: you know, toxic mascular dudes.

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Speaker 1: Can we get mad.

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Speaker 3: I'll take that.

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Speaker 2: Rogan sphere dudes can get mad Man of Sphere, but

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Speaker 2: they ad bots.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, can we just all be friends? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know what, it's fair. We'll meet it

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Speaker 3: one day, but.

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Speaker 1: Fair already yet? So well, so for I have how

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Speaker 1: long did it take?

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Speaker 2: I just always think it's interesting to talk to artists

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Speaker 2: about this, like from the beginning of like I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: because you wrote and directed the film and start in it,

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Speaker 2: how long is that process from today I'm starting to

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Speaker 2: write this thing to it's out in the world, Like

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Speaker 2: what is that? Like, you know, you said it came

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Speaker 2: out in twenty twenty four, but how long did it

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Speaker 2: take you as a person to go from like this

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Speaker 2: is an idea? I have to random people just saw it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well I so technically so I made my first

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Speaker 3: short film in Oakland called Waking Hour in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: and then that Sorry twenty eighteen, and that came out

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Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen. And in twenty nineteen I did this

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Speaker 3: pitch competition at inside Out in Toronto and it was

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Speaker 3: to get funded for your next short film. So technically,

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Speaker 3: like the idea goes all the way back to then

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, it was called Table for two and it

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00:17:24,984 --> 00:17:27,984
Speaker 3: was yeah, it was. It was about a chance encounter

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Speaker 3: of two people that had had a conflict in their

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Speaker 3: past and had stopped speaking. And it originally was actually friends.

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Speaker 3: It was supposed to be these two friends.

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Speaker 1: So two friends who had a falling out have a

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Speaker 1: chance encounter, and.

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Speaker 3: There was always going to be this It was called

383
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Speaker 3: table for two, but it was these two people, but

384
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Speaker 3: there was going to be four people at the table.

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Speaker 3: So I just that idea never left me. And then

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Speaker 3: at one point it was like, oh, I want to

387
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Speaker 3: make a French dinner comedy, you know, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, just I was, I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what it was, like what is it? You know?

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Speaker 3: And then twenty twenty one, I think I landed on

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Speaker 3: the emotion of it and and I think the purpose

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Speaker 3: of the story. And so then I wrote it starting

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two, which was before I was even

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Speaker 3: cast on Baby Reindeer.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: And then I was like applying for grants and trying

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Speaker 3: to get it financed. Then I filmed Baby Reindeer.

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Speaker 1: And then right after not having any idea of what

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Speaker 1: it was going to happen, when it came out, like I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, it was like it was like the most life

401
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Speaker 3: changing thing I'd ever been a part of. You know,

402
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Speaker 3: it would have been enough for me if the show

403
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Speaker 3: had never come out. It would have been enough for

404
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Speaker 3: me to just have gotten to share that experience with

405
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Speaker 3: everybody that made it. And so coming out of that,

406
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Speaker 3: then I went straight into pre production on my short film,

407
00:19:07,824 --> 00:19:11,264
Speaker 3: which took me into May, and then I over the

408
00:19:11,344 --> 00:19:17,544
Speaker 3: Strike was in post on the shore and I like,

409
00:19:17,744 --> 00:19:20,224
Speaker 3: finished the short. I think there's a cut. The date

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Speaker 3: is April seventh, twenty twenty four. That was my final

411
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Speaker 3: final cut, and Baby Nder came out April eleventh.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's so many lessons in there for creatives.

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Speaker 2: Like some people are just auditioning for stuff, sitting a

415
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Speaker 2: home waiting for them to happen. But you're you're writing

416
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Speaker 2: this thing you get in Baby Reindeer. You don't stop

417
00:19:40,384 --> 00:19:42,184
Speaker 2: the thing. You don't go, oh, I guess I'm gonna

418
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Speaker 2: do that no more. You keep working on the short. Yeah,

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00:19:44,504 --> 00:19:47,344
Speaker 2: and then the timing ends up that like I'm finished

420
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Speaker 2: it and now Baby Reindeer is about premiere. Yeah, it

421
00:19:50,144 --> 00:19:52,304
Speaker 2: sort of helps that, Like you know the idea of

422
00:19:52,384 --> 00:19:54,263
Speaker 2: a rising, tideless all boats, but if you're doing all

423
00:19:54,304 --> 00:19:56,064
Speaker 2: that work. Then it all sort of plays with it,

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00:19:56,264 --> 00:19:58,744
Speaker 2: It all helps you, you know, all that work comes together.

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00:19:59,064 --> 00:20:02,824
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I so I really see the two projects

426
00:20:02,864 --> 00:20:07,704
Speaker 3: as sharing the same space in my life and what

427
00:20:07,824 --> 00:20:09,944
Speaker 3: I was going through and what I needed to process it.

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00:20:10,104 --> 00:20:14,744
Speaker 3: There are very sim themes and so then because of that,

429
00:20:14,944 --> 00:20:19,264
Speaker 3: I was then I was done, like I've I've processed that.

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00:20:19,504 --> 00:20:21,424
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I'm ready to move on to the

431
00:20:21,504 --> 00:20:25,024
Speaker 3: next thing. But but it was really special to get

432
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Speaker 3: to I guess see what it was like for Richard

433
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Speaker 3: to make a baby reindeer, and and and thinking about

434
00:20:39,664 --> 00:20:44,544
Speaker 3: doing scenes where you're maybe reliving drama and where you're

435
00:20:44,584 --> 00:20:49,984
Speaker 3: doing intimacy there's violence. It was it was just created

436
00:20:50,064 --> 00:20:52,984
Speaker 3: a space and me to feel brave enough to to

437
00:20:53,144 --> 00:20:56,144
Speaker 3: then explore that in my own story.

438
00:20:56,384 --> 00:21:00,224
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then talk about what the actual plot of

439
00:21:00,264 --> 00:21:00,864
Speaker 1: the current.

440
00:21:02,744 --> 00:21:07,064
Speaker 3: Yeah, all the words, but the one is about two

441
00:21:07,184 --> 00:21:11,744
Speaker 3: people that had an on and off tumultuous romantic and

442
00:21:12,224 --> 00:21:18,064
Speaker 3: sexual relationship that ended in violence, and then they never

443
00:21:18,144 --> 00:21:25,664
Speaker 3: spoke again, and five years have passed and by wild coincidence,

444
00:21:27,784 --> 00:21:31,384
Speaker 3: they end up sitting across from each other at a

445
00:21:31,464 --> 00:21:38,543
Speaker 3: dinner table for their partners. Because my character's partner's boss

446
00:21:38,984 --> 00:21:40,784
Speaker 3: is married to her ex.

447
00:21:42,024 --> 00:21:46,304
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that story tells us a lot.

448
00:21:46,344 --> 00:21:47,824
Speaker 2: But you also just directed in such a way that

449
00:21:47,904 --> 00:21:51,464
Speaker 2: you can feel sort of the tension beneath the surface,

450
00:21:51,704 --> 00:21:52,584
Speaker 2: like everybody's like.

451
00:21:52,704 --> 00:21:56,704
Speaker 3: Everything's fine, but everyone's like what is going on?

452
00:21:57,024 --> 00:22:01,224
Speaker 2: Yes, and also thinks attention has to do with something else,

453
00:22:01,544 --> 00:22:03,544
Speaker 2: you know, the way that couples do, like, oh, I

454
00:22:03,584 --> 00:22:05,184
Speaker 2: thought you were mad about that. You're thinking about something

455
00:22:05,184 --> 00:22:09,664
Speaker 2: else completely, you know, so yeah, and very sort of

456
00:22:09,824 --> 00:22:12,784
Speaker 2: like that's what I'm looking for, or like efficiently done

457
00:22:12,944 --> 00:22:14,464
Speaker 2: in the time that you have, Like it felt like

458
00:22:14,504 --> 00:22:16,264
Speaker 2: I said, it feels like a whole movie. And it

459
00:22:16,304 --> 00:22:18,704
Speaker 2: also feels like I was wondering, because sometimes short films

460
00:22:18,744 --> 00:22:21,224
Speaker 2: can be the test of a longer idea.

461
00:22:21,464 --> 00:22:23,544
Speaker 1: Is this that or is this? Is this idea done?

462
00:22:23,904 --> 00:22:27,384
Speaker 3: I you know, I've never written a short thinking that

463
00:22:27,544 --> 00:22:31,344
Speaker 3: it was part of the commercial. Yes, exactly, like the

464
00:22:31,424 --> 00:22:34,464
Speaker 3: crew of concept. I really believe in the short as

465
00:22:34,504 --> 00:22:39,344
Speaker 3: its own format. I kind of think of shorts as

466
00:22:39,504 --> 00:22:44,704
Speaker 3: like a poem. And I'm ready to get into my

467
00:22:44,864 --> 00:22:47,144
Speaker 3: longer form fiction now, you know.

468
00:22:49,224 --> 00:22:50,224
Speaker 1: And and I just.

469
00:22:52,344 --> 00:22:54,624
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes I joke that it was that was

470
00:22:54,744 --> 00:22:58,304
Speaker 3: like my Taylor Swift out, my Taylor Swift short film,

471
00:22:58,464 --> 00:23:03,544
Speaker 3: like because it's so emo and so like, you know,

472
00:23:03,984 --> 00:23:10,024
Speaker 3: like it's just it's heavy, it's heavy, and that was

473
00:23:10,304 --> 00:23:13,024
Speaker 3: what I needed to get off my chest and that's

474
00:23:13,064 --> 00:23:17,624
Speaker 3: what I was processing. And so now I'm on the

475
00:23:17,704 --> 00:23:20,824
Speaker 3: other side and it just actually would not make sense

476
00:23:20,864 --> 00:23:24,624
Speaker 3: at all to even try to revisit that because it

477
00:23:24,784 --> 00:23:30,224
Speaker 3: just wouldn't be emotionally true and so straight up like

478
00:23:30,424 --> 00:23:33,504
Speaker 3: I'm trying to make a comedy next, because that's how

479
00:23:33,544 --> 00:23:34,224
Speaker 3: I feel now, you.

480
00:23:34,264 --> 00:23:36,744
Speaker 1: Know, yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and also what we

481
00:23:36,864 --> 00:23:37,784
Speaker 1: need now maybe.

482
00:23:37,904 --> 00:23:39,464
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

483
00:23:39,584 --> 00:23:41,424
Speaker 2: And so at what point, because I think a lot

484
00:23:41,504 --> 00:23:46,024
Speaker 2: of artists, I feel like they have they're They're like,

485
00:23:46,104 --> 00:23:47,944
Speaker 2: I'm an actor, I'm not a director. I'm an actor,

486
00:23:47,984 --> 00:23:49,784
Speaker 2: I'm not a writer. But you clearly came into this

487
00:23:49,904 --> 00:23:51,624
Speaker 2: doing at all. At what point did you give yourself

488
00:23:51,944 --> 00:23:54,424
Speaker 2: permission or did somebody tell you should do that? Like,

489
00:23:54,824 --> 00:23:56,024
Speaker 2: you know, how did that happen?

490
00:23:58,024 --> 00:23:59,584
Speaker 3: I think it's just that no one told me that

491
00:23:59,664 --> 00:24:04,624
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it because I didn't start in Hollywood

492
00:24:05,544 --> 00:24:12,504
Speaker 3: and my frame of reference was entirely community funded and

493
00:24:12,744 --> 00:24:18,864
Speaker 3: community supported independent film of course, I had, you know,

494
00:24:19,064 --> 00:24:21,704
Speaker 3: dreams and visions, like there were people that inspired me

495
00:24:21,864 --> 00:24:28,224
Speaker 3: very much, like Shonda Rhimes as as a showrunner and

496
00:24:28,624 --> 00:24:32,744
Speaker 3: Octavia Butler as a sci fi storyteller. Like I knew

497
00:24:32,784 --> 00:24:36,664
Speaker 3: I wanted to. I aspired to that level of greatness,

498
00:24:38,384 --> 00:24:40,664
Speaker 3: but in terms of what was in front of me,

499
00:24:40,784 --> 00:24:44,984
Speaker 3: it was I saw my friend Nana Dufour in Oakland

500
00:24:45,704 --> 00:24:48,344
Speaker 3: make this project called Sprint, and it was a collection

501
00:24:48,504 --> 00:24:52,984
Speaker 3: of short films that was about her experience of healing

502
00:24:53,064 --> 00:24:56,264
Speaker 3: from sexual assault. And I never I didn't even really

503
00:24:56,344 --> 00:24:57,544
Speaker 3: know what a short film was.

504
00:25:00,224 --> 00:25:00,584
Speaker 1: And so.

505
00:25:02,184 --> 00:25:03,944
Speaker 3: I was trying to be a showrunner. I was trying

506
00:25:03,944 --> 00:25:06,064
Speaker 3: to be a TV writer. And then I was like, well,

507
00:25:07,624 --> 00:25:10,544
Speaker 3: maybe I should try to get some of my writing

508
00:25:10,624 --> 00:25:13,304
Speaker 3: produced so that I have something to show for it

509
00:25:13,784 --> 00:25:19,384
Speaker 3: other than just a script. And so I did a

510
00:25:19,704 --> 00:25:24,944
Speaker 3: logo fund me and I was like, Okay, I guess

511
00:25:25,024 --> 00:25:27,504
Speaker 3: I need to find someone to direct this and someone

512
00:25:27,584 --> 00:25:31,104
Speaker 3: to act in it. And I didn't really have the

513
00:25:31,184 --> 00:25:36,544
Speaker 3: money to pay anybody direct or act in it. And

514
00:25:36,664 --> 00:25:38,384
Speaker 3: it was also like, well, how am I going to

515
00:25:38,504 --> 00:25:42,344
Speaker 3: find somebody that can approach this story of a trans Latina,

516
00:25:43,464 --> 00:25:48,984
Speaker 3: you know, dealing with issues of consent and intimacy and

517
00:25:49,744 --> 00:25:51,263
Speaker 3: specifically in Oakland, Like.

518
00:25:52,744 --> 00:25:54,424
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like it's like, how can I

519
00:25:54,504 --> 00:25:56,864
Speaker 1: find a person who knows all those things? Yeah, like

520
00:25:56,944 --> 00:25:58,064
Speaker 1: I wonder when you could do it?

521
00:26:00,264 --> 00:26:04,344
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, yeah, I don't remember which one I

522
00:26:04,424 --> 00:26:06,864
Speaker 3: decided to do first, but basically then I was like, well,

523
00:26:06,864 --> 00:26:08,424
Speaker 3: I guess I'll direct it and I'll act in it.

524
00:26:10,184 --> 00:26:14,264
Speaker 2: Before that, no, you're all your all those images of

525
00:26:14,304 --> 00:26:16,544
Speaker 2: the cview like in high fashion, there's nothing about that

526
00:26:16,624 --> 00:26:18,744
Speaker 2: that says not comfortable being in front of the camera.

527
00:26:20,384 --> 00:26:22,784
Speaker 2: On Instagram, there's lots of photos of you, like at

528
00:26:23,144 --> 00:26:25,304
Speaker 2: at the opening and at the things and in the

529
00:26:25,384 --> 00:26:26,104
Speaker 2: fashion shoot.

530
00:26:26,384 --> 00:26:29,544
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I don't know, but that was always

531
00:26:29,664 --> 00:26:34,864
Speaker 3: like fantasy to me. I would play growing up. I

532
00:26:34,984 --> 00:26:38,504
Speaker 3: used to play this thing with my sisters called the Game,

533
00:26:39,344 --> 00:26:42,184
Speaker 3: and we played it for like five years. Any time

534
00:26:42,784 --> 00:26:45,064
Speaker 3: that we had after school, on the weekends, any free

535
00:26:45,104 --> 00:26:48,144
Speaker 3: time we had, we would play the game and we

536
00:26:48,344 --> 00:26:52,504
Speaker 3: would pretend to be these We would pretend to be adults,

537
00:26:52,544 --> 00:26:54,864
Speaker 3: adult versions of ourselves, and so we would be married

538
00:26:54,904 --> 00:26:56,504
Speaker 3: and have kids and have all this drama, and people

539
00:26:56,504 --> 00:27:02,744
Speaker 3: would fall down the stairs and you know, and one

540
00:27:02,824 --> 00:27:05,904
Speaker 3: of my favorite characters that I just always ended up

541
00:27:05,944 --> 00:27:08,944
Speaker 3: loving to play was who was supposed to be my wife,

542
00:27:09,424 --> 00:27:18,304
Speaker 3: which was Christina Escalante name, that was her name, and

543
00:27:18,864 --> 00:27:22,704
Speaker 3: because she looks she was a climber. Okay, so she

544
00:27:22,984 --> 00:27:26,664
Speaker 3: was a fashion designer and she was so fabulous, and

545
00:27:26,704 --> 00:27:30,064
Speaker 3: she would wear high heels in the pool, which I

546
00:27:30,104 --> 00:27:32,064
Speaker 3: would act out by just being on my tippy toes.

547
00:27:32,144 --> 00:27:39,304
Speaker 3: But I just always felt free in pretending to be

548
00:27:39,504 --> 00:27:48,184
Speaker 3: fabulous and pretending to be powerful, and so I did

549
00:27:48,304 --> 00:27:51,264
Speaker 3: have practice, I guess in some sense, but I never

550
00:27:51,424 --> 00:27:54,544
Speaker 3: thought that it would be real.

551
00:28:13,464 --> 00:28:16,264
Speaker 2: There's some reasons why many of us grow up going

552
00:28:16,384 --> 00:28:18,544
Speaker 2: like I see things happening on TV or in Hollywood,

553
00:28:18,624 --> 00:28:19,904
Speaker 2: but that doesn't feel like me. And some of that

554
00:28:20,064 --> 00:28:22,464
Speaker 2: is like your socio economic background. It's the fact that

555
00:28:22,464 --> 00:28:25,104
Speaker 2: you don't know anybody around using this business. It's also

556
00:28:25,144 --> 00:28:27,184
Speaker 2: the fact that maybe you don't see people who are

557
00:28:27,344 --> 00:28:29,384
Speaker 2: like you on there, so you feel like it's is

558
00:28:29,624 --> 00:28:32,584
Speaker 2: that what kept you also even kept you from I

559
00:28:32,784 --> 00:28:33,184
Speaker 2: was look.

560
00:28:33,264 --> 00:28:36,184
Speaker 3: I grew up in Mexico City and in San Antonio, Texas,

561
00:28:37,464 --> 00:28:42,544
Speaker 3: and I have been surrounded by black and brown people

562
00:28:43,184 --> 00:28:48,224
Speaker 3: throughout since childhood, and and I'm so grateful for that,

563
00:28:48,464 --> 00:28:52,344
Speaker 3: And I'm so grateful that I know who my community

564
00:28:52,464 --> 00:28:55,624
Speaker 3: is and I know where my heart comes from. And

565
00:28:56,224 --> 00:29:03,944
Speaker 3: it also means that I am foreign to a lot

566
00:29:04,024 --> 00:29:07,584
Speaker 3: of the realms and and the sort of microcultures that

567
00:29:07,784 --> 00:29:15,384
Speaker 3: feed into Hollywood and and fashion and and and people

568
00:29:15,504 --> 00:29:20,704
Speaker 3: with a body like mine only very recently have started

569
00:29:20,784 --> 00:29:23,344
Speaker 3: to be uplifted in this industry.

570
00:29:23,784 --> 00:29:25,104
Speaker 1: What do you mean by like yours?

571
00:29:26,184 --> 00:29:31,104
Speaker 3: Well, first, I mean I'm trans and I am not skinny,

572
00:29:31,904 --> 00:29:35,664
Speaker 3: and I never have been. And it's beautiful for people

573
00:29:35,744 --> 00:29:37,984
Speaker 3: like me to be represented on screen, but that is

574
00:29:38,144 --> 00:29:43,784
Speaker 3: not what the dominant class has believed for a very

575
00:29:43,864 --> 00:29:46,944
Speaker 3: long time, and it's not what they want to offer

576
00:29:47,304 --> 00:29:51,224
Speaker 3: to the public. I think there's you know, I think

577
00:29:51,264 --> 00:29:58,344
Speaker 3: there's definitely an agenda and who is promoted and who

578
00:29:58,464 --> 00:30:01,704
Speaker 3: is uplifted enough to be on screen and to be,

579
00:30:02,784 --> 00:30:07,824
Speaker 3: you know, sort of repeatedly pushed in front of people's eyes.

580
00:30:10,344 --> 00:30:13,464
Speaker 3: And that was certainly not anyone like me when I

581
00:30:13,584 --> 00:30:16,544
Speaker 3: was growing up, and certainly not before I transitioned. Also,

582
00:30:16,704 --> 00:30:19,824
Speaker 3: it was like, yeah, because I was a gender queer

583
00:30:19,904 --> 00:30:23,064
Speaker 3: before I before I even realized that I was a woman,

584
00:30:23,184 --> 00:30:26,984
Speaker 3: and and so there just there was just no path.

585
00:30:27,224 --> 00:30:30,304
Speaker 3: There was no path, and there was no examples until

586
00:30:30,864 --> 00:30:34,424
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, here and there, like Candice Cane

587
00:30:34,584 --> 00:30:38,664
Speaker 3: on Dirty Sexy Money. I remember, and I wasn't even

588
00:30:38,704 --> 00:30:41,544
Speaker 3: I didn't even know I was trance, but I just

589
00:30:41,664 --> 00:30:45,544
Speaker 3: remember being like, I mean, I just I just like

590
00:30:45,664 --> 00:30:47,984
Speaker 3: that character. I was like, oh, I like Carmelita.

591
00:30:51,144 --> 00:30:51,344
Speaker 2: Yeah.

592
00:30:51,944 --> 00:30:55,904
Speaker 3: And and then of course, you know Laverne when when

593
00:30:55,984 --> 00:30:59,344
Speaker 3: she came on Orangees and New Black and and was

594
00:30:59,464 --> 00:31:03,304
Speaker 3: received with with awe, you know, and and it was

595
00:31:03,384 --> 00:31:09,384
Speaker 3: a sensation and and rightfully so, because it was like

596
00:31:09,664 --> 00:31:12,104
Speaker 3: a moment of realizing what had been kept from us.

597
00:31:13,784 --> 00:31:17,944
Speaker 3: So yeah, growing up, I wasn't we hadn't had that yet.

598
00:31:18,264 --> 00:31:18,944
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

599
00:31:19,384 --> 00:31:23,384
Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting, you say, because I I talked

600
00:31:23,424 --> 00:31:25,464
Speaker 2: to Laverne Cox on my first TV show I had

601
00:31:25,504 --> 00:31:28,064
Speaker 2: called Totally Biased, and I interviewed Laverne on my show,

602
00:31:28,704 --> 00:31:32,144
Speaker 2: And at the time, it was like, it's sort of

603
00:31:32,224 --> 00:31:33,744
Speaker 2: interesting that you can. I feel like a lot of

604
00:31:33,784 --> 00:31:35,784
Speaker 2: people can see me grow up in real time, just

605
00:31:35,864 --> 00:31:37,424
Speaker 2: on through the TV I've been in because at the time,

606
00:31:37,904 --> 00:31:39,704
Speaker 2: I'd certainly met trains peop before, but I hadn't had

607
00:31:39,744 --> 00:31:43,264
Speaker 2: a conversation like that and looking back on who I

608
00:31:43,384 --> 00:31:44,424
Speaker 2: was back then, that guy was.

609
00:31:44,424 --> 00:31:46,264
Speaker 1: Afraid, Like that guy didn't.

610
00:31:46,624 --> 00:31:49,344
Speaker 2: I'm still I'm still paralyzed with fear today, but I'm

611
00:31:49,384 --> 00:31:51,104
Speaker 2: just older now so I can deal with it better.

612
00:31:51,184 --> 00:31:52,864
Speaker 2: But like just sort of not knowing what to say

613
00:31:52,984 --> 00:31:54,744
Speaker 2: or not to say. It was a great conversation, and

614
00:31:55,064 --> 00:31:57,944
Speaker 2: Laverne said that it really it really meant a lot

615
00:31:57,984 --> 00:32:00,384
Speaker 2: to her at the time, but also I was surrounded

616
00:32:00,424 --> 00:32:03,744
Speaker 2: by like, you know, it was just there's just I

617
00:32:03,784 --> 00:32:05,184
Speaker 2: felt like I had to carry a lot of weight,

618
00:32:05,344 --> 00:32:07,224
Speaker 2: that there was nobody around me you could who could

619
00:32:07,224 --> 00:32:09,024
Speaker 2: help me through the conversation or help me, you know,

620
00:32:09,104 --> 00:32:11,504
Speaker 2: and the people you know, it's it's just, it's just

621
00:32:12,104 --> 00:32:13,984
Speaker 2: but I feel like that conversation was my first sort

622
00:32:13,984 --> 00:32:17,104
Speaker 2: of like beginning of like publicly talking about talking to

623
00:32:17,224 --> 00:32:21,024
Speaker 2: a trans person and talking about the issues. And at

624
00:32:21,064 --> 00:32:23,944
Speaker 2: the time when Laverne and I would love you to

625
00:32:23,984 --> 00:32:26,944
Speaker 2: talk about this, feeling like, oh, this seems like this

626
00:32:27,024 --> 00:32:28,264
Speaker 2: is about to change for the better.

627
00:32:29,184 --> 00:32:33,304
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're a little like you.

628
00:32:33,344 --> 00:32:35,664
Speaker 2: Know, like, oh this is really going a good direction

629
00:32:35,824 --> 00:32:39,824
Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah, so maybe you don't need to respond.

630
00:32:39,864 --> 00:32:40,944
Speaker 1: Maybe that who was it enough?

631
00:32:41,104 --> 00:32:43,504
Speaker 2: But like, oh, this is and soon and this was like,

632
00:32:43,624 --> 00:32:45,024
Speaker 2: I mean we're talking about I talked to the vere

633
00:32:45,024 --> 00:32:48,584
Speaker 2: that's probably twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, you know, so somewhere

634
00:32:49,664 --> 00:32:51,944
Speaker 2: some time we're in the around then and to think

635
00:32:51,984 --> 00:32:53,544
Speaker 2: that like, oh, it's going in a good direction and

636
00:32:53,584 --> 00:32:55,304
Speaker 2: things are about to open up and trans people are

637
00:32:55,304 --> 00:32:56,864
Speaker 2: be able to live their lives out in public and

638
00:32:56,984 --> 00:32:59,144
Speaker 2: not have any you know, of course there's always fear,

639
00:32:59,184 --> 00:33:03,184
Speaker 2: but be less fearful. That's probably how it felt up

640
00:33:03,264 --> 00:33:07,424
Speaker 2: until then, you know, twenty sixteen comes and then can

641
00:33:07,464 --> 00:33:09,024
Speaker 2: you talk about that. Was there a point at which

642
00:33:09,024 --> 00:33:11,784
Speaker 2: you thought maybe that, oh, this is actually going to

643
00:33:11,824 --> 00:33:14,824
Speaker 2: be I don't want to put working your mouth okay,

644
00:33:15,304 --> 00:33:16,984
Speaker 2: or this is going to be not as scared as

645
00:33:16,984 --> 00:33:18,824
Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be. And did that

646
00:33:19,184 --> 00:33:21,904
Speaker 2: you know, did that or am I again being naive

647
00:33:21,944 --> 00:33:22,944
Speaker 2: about that moment?

648
00:33:24,264 --> 00:33:24,464
Speaker 1: Yeah.

649
00:33:24,624 --> 00:33:29,784
Speaker 3: I came into the industry during a time where it

650
00:33:29,904 --> 00:33:33,584
Speaker 3: felt like there was there was like a wave of

651
00:33:33,704 --> 00:33:39,104
Speaker 3: activist movements coming from within the industry and also I

652
00:33:39,184 --> 00:33:42,624
Speaker 3: think outside the industry to try to create more equity

653
00:33:43,384 --> 00:33:47,584
Speaker 3: and more opportunity for anyone who's not just the straight

654
00:33:47,624 --> 00:33:51,464
Speaker 3: cis white guy. So you know, it was Times Up,

655
00:33:52,344 --> 00:33:56,064
Speaker 3: it was me Too, it was Oscar so White. It

656
00:33:56,584 --> 00:34:03,664
Speaker 3: was the sort of trans wave of representation. There was

657
00:34:03,744 --> 00:34:06,144
Speaker 3: a lot of opening and it was also the boom

658
00:34:06,304 --> 00:34:09,263
Speaker 3: of television and so there was like the most TV

659
00:34:09,384 --> 00:34:12,304
Speaker 3: shows ever made in one year, Like.

660
00:34:12,384 --> 00:34:13,143
Speaker 1: There was more place.

661
00:34:13,344 --> 00:34:17,424
Speaker 2: TV needed, more content, yes, and our streamers needed so

662
00:34:17,504 --> 00:34:19,143
Speaker 2: there was just more stories were being told.

663
00:34:19,584 --> 00:34:26,024
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so yeah, it felt like we had figured

664
00:34:26,064 --> 00:34:30,504
Speaker 3: out how to make space for everybody and that and

665
00:34:30,663 --> 00:34:34,984
Speaker 3: that we were moving towards that as as of shared value. Yes,

666
00:34:38,064 --> 00:34:40,383
Speaker 3: and and so obviously we knew that it would still

667
00:34:40,424 --> 00:34:42,183
Speaker 3: take a long time and that there was just so

668
00:34:42,344 --> 00:34:47,183
Speaker 3: many barriers to break and so many hurdles to get over.

669
00:34:47,303 --> 00:34:51,904
Speaker 3: But but yeah, it felt like we would be able

670
00:34:52,143 --> 00:34:54,863
Speaker 3: to do that. It felt like we would be able

671
00:34:54,984 --> 00:35:00,424
Speaker 3: to to really, you know, people that work in the industry,

672
00:35:00,584 --> 00:35:03,784
Speaker 3: to dedicate our lives to that and have a career.

673
00:35:05,663 --> 00:35:09,663
Speaker 3: But I know that all along the wisest among us

674
00:35:09,743 --> 00:35:11,983
Speaker 3: have have sort of seen the writing on the law.

675
00:35:13,584 --> 00:35:19,863
Speaker 3: You know, Eric Stanley, Tourmaline and Joanna Burton I believe

676
00:35:19,904 --> 00:35:23,984
Speaker 3: her name is Joanna Burton credited this book called Trapdoor.

677
00:35:24,064 --> 00:35:28,823
Speaker 3: Have you heard of Trapdoor? They you know, they sort

678
00:35:28,864 --> 00:35:36,984
Speaker 3: of presented this contradiction of of what visibility does for

679
00:35:37,104 --> 00:35:42,104
Speaker 3: trans people, because, on the one hand, it does allow

680
00:35:42,263 --> 00:35:46,463
Speaker 3: us to be seen and understood, and I think there's

681
00:35:46,504 --> 00:35:49,623
Speaker 3: an idea that might come with greater empathy and greater

682
00:35:49,703 --> 00:35:53,024
Speaker 3: cultural acceptance, which I actually think is true. I think

683
00:35:53,104 --> 00:35:58,744
Speaker 3: that has happened, which ideally then translates to a change

684
00:35:58,984 --> 00:36:03,864
Speaker 3: in our access to resources and and survival. But on

685
00:36:03,984 --> 00:36:09,984
Speaker 3: the other side of that trap door is everything that

686
00:36:10,064 --> 00:36:14,464
Speaker 3: has come, which is with that great that greater visibility.

687
00:36:14,544 --> 00:36:23,343
Speaker 3: Now there's just these I mean, these horrifying attacks on

688
00:36:23,904 --> 00:36:28,544
Speaker 3: trans people's rights, and these waves of discrimination that seemed

689
00:36:28,623 --> 00:36:34,223
Speaker 3: to rise higher and higher, and and a real, you know,

690
00:36:36,024 --> 00:36:42,023
Speaker 3: a real strategized approach to target trans people as scapegoats

691
00:36:42,984 --> 00:36:46,504
Speaker 3: for other reasons, you.

692
00:36:46,544 --> 00:36:50,663
Speaker 2: Know, science people being used to as the scary thing

693
00:36:50,743 --> 00:36:53,423
Speaker 2: to make you vote, to get yourself interest with other things. Yes,

694
00:36:53,584 --> 00:36:54,944
Speaker 2: that trans this is the thing you.

695
00:36:54,984 --> 00:36:55,743
Speaker 1: Need to be worried about.

696
00:36:55,904 --> 00:36:56,504
Speaker 3: The boogeyman.

697
00:36:56,703 --> 00:36:57,904
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the boogeyman.

698
00:36:57,984 --> 00:37:00,183
Speaker 2: Need to be not all the not the fact that

699
00:37:00,303 --> 00:37:03,024
Speaker 2: we're destroying the middle class and working class, and not

700
00:37:03,143 --> 00:37:05,983
Speaker 2: the fact that we're that we're kidnapping people and killing

701
00:37:05,984 --> 00:37:07,143
Speaker 2: people on American streets.

702
00:37:07,303 --> 00:37:10,263
Speaker 1: And by way, I mean the government not you know,

703
00:37:10,663 --> 00:37:12,544
Speaker 1: don't we worried about that. Don't we worried about that,

704
00:37:13,064 --> 00:37:14,143
Speaker 1: worried about trans people?

705
00:37:14,344 --> 00:37:21,504
Speaker 3: Yeah, because our visibility did not necessarily change our vulnerability.

706
00:37:21,783 --> 00:37:22,064
Speaker 2: Hmm.

707
00:37:23,064 --> 00:37:27,464
Speaker 1: Our visibility did not change their vulnerability. And and and so.

708
00:37:29,743 --> 00:37:34,183
Speaker 3: You know, so, yeah, we are being used by by

709
00:37:34,263 --> 00:37:37,704
Speaker 3: the right and in trying to further their their goals.

710
00:37:39,223 --> 00:37:41,783
Speaker 3: But I do think people are waking up to that.

711
00:37:42,944 --> 00:37:48,504
Speaker 3: And and then the visibility is part of of helping

712
00:37:48,584 --> 00:37:50,904
Speaker 3: people understand what's happening.

713
00:37:51,064 --> 00:37:55,064
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand, you know, do you So you were

714
00:37:55,303 --> 00:37:57,303
Speaker 2: just in you know, Baby Reindeer is one of those

715
00:37:57,384 --> 00:37:59,384
Speaker 2: like shows that comes around every few years. It's like,

716
00:37:59,504 --> 00:38:02,303
Speaker 2: that's the show everybody's talking about. It's the it's on

717
00:38:02,384 --> 00:38:05,663
Speaker 2: the cover of the thing. It's critical acclaim and mass acclaim.

718
00:38:05,783 --> 00:38:07,703
Speaker 2: And Netflix is you know, Netflix all the world, so

719
00:38:07,783 --> 00:38:10,104
Speaker 2: you're known all over the world. And out of a

720
00:38:10,183 --> 00:38:13,143
Speaker 2: thing like that, out of oppert like that, you would

721
00:38:13,223 --> 00:38:15,904
Speaker 2: hope or you would expect that more opportunities like that

722
00:38:15,944 --> 00:38:16,584
Speaker 2: would come out of that.

723
00:38:17,303 --> 00:38:18,263
Speaker 1: Are you experiencing that?

724
00:38:18,944 --> 00:38:23,303
Speaker 3: No, But I think that a lot of people are

725
00:38:26,263 --> 00:38:33,864
Speaker 3: going through a really hard time in every industry. You know,

726
00:38:35,743 --> 00:38:37,423
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are experiencing a lack

727
00:38:37,464 --> 00:38:42,823
Speaker 3: of opportunity. And in our industry, it is it is

728
00:38:42,904 --> 00:38:47,424
Speaker 3: feeling a little like you know, Detroit when they started

729
00:38:47,424 --> 00:38:50,544
Speaker 3: to shut down the car factories.

730
00:38:50,703 --> 00:38:52,223
Speaker 2: You know, feel a little bit like maybe I need

731
00:38:52,263 --> 00:38:54,623
Speaker 2: to go back to college and finish my degree, or

732
00:38:54,663 --> 00:38:56,663
Speaker 2: maybe I need to get that teaching certificate. I mean, so,

733
00:38:57,104 --> 00:39:00,223
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, yes, show base is one

734
00:39:00,223 --> 00:39:03,024
Speaker 2: of probably an all time low. Less people are working,

735
00:39:03,904 --> 00:39:08,384
Speaker 2: you know, people are like acclaimed filmmakers are releasing projects

736
00:39:08,384 --> 00:39:10,584
Speaker 2: that they're going proudly this was made with AI, you know.

737
00:39:10,703 --> 00:39:14,783
Speaker 2: So and and at the point you talked about earlier

738
00:39:14,783 --> 00:39:16,223
Speaker 2: when there was peak TV, where there were all these

739
00:39:16,263 --> 00:39:19,183
Speaker 2: separate streamers and networks that need a content. Now that's

740
00:39:19,344 --> 00:39:21,783
Speaker 2: the industry is consolidated those under like now there's like

741
00:39:21,944 --> 00:39:24,424
Speaker 2: three You may think you have a lot of choices

742
00:39:24,464 --> 00:39:26,584
Speaker 2: on your TV, but there's like three people who are

743
00:39:26,663 --> 00:39:29,743
Speaker 2: running those choices. Yeah, so there's not as many slots available,

744
00:39:29,864 --> 00:39:32,943
Speaker 2: and the slots that are available, they're not that We're

745
00:39:32,984 --> 00:39:34,823
Speaker 2: not that into the black and the brown and the

746
00:39:35,183 --> 00:39:38,183
Speaker 2: and the LGBTQ. Plus you know, but a little bit

747
00:39:38,223 --> 00:39:40,384
Speaker 2: we're not like we're not searching for more of that content.

748
00:39:40,504 --> 00:39:43,783
Speaker 2: So no, and this is what ither a pfrase we're

749
00:39:43,783 --> 00:39:46,423
Speaker 2: gonna say. So you were at one point like one

750
00:39:46,464 --> 00:39:49,224
Speaker 2: of the I mean hottest is in the Hot career,

751
00:39:49,783 --> 00:39:53,064
Speaker 2: hottest actor, hottest actors actresses on TV.

752
00:39:54,263 --> 00:39:58,584
Speaker 1: Uh, that person normally has like a.

753
00:39:58,584 --> 00:40:00,864
Speaker 2: Little bit of like now you get to choose a

754
00:40:00,984 --> 00:40:04,463
Speaker 2: project that's focused on me, another project somebody goes, let's

755
00:40:04,544 --> 00:40:07,024
Speaker 2: spin your character off into the you know whatever, or

756
00:40:07,024 --> 00:40:08,383
Speaker 2: if you can play this, you can play this, and.

757
00:40:08,424 --> 00:40:09,143
Speaker 1: That's not happening.

758
00:40:09,743 --> 00:40:12,624
Speaker 3: Yeah that you know, that would have been really nice.

759
00:40:17,384 --> 00:40:18,823
Speaker 1: Yeah, come out, thanks for bringing that up.

760
00:40:20,024 --> 00:40:27,024
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that for anybody who's

761
00:40:27,143 --> 00:40:30,504
Speaker 3: not in the entertainment industry, it can be hard to

762
00:40:30,663 --> 00:40:38,424
Speaker 3: understand that it's a machine and that there are people

763
00:40:38,623 --> 00:40:42,744
Speaker 3: running the machine. Every part of the machine has levers

764
00:40:42,783 --> 00:40:44,783
Speaker 3: that need to be pulled and gears that need to

765
00:40:44,824 --> 00:40:45,544
Speaker 3: be turned, and.

766
00:40:47,703 --> 00:40:48,024
Speaker 1: And so.

767
00:40:50,223 --> 00:40:55,223
Speaker 3: To an extent, like it is, it is about individual

768
00:40:55,303 --> 00:41:02,743
Speaker 3: people deciding if they want to give you opportunities and

769
00:41:02,864 --> 00:41:08,623
Speaker 3: if they want to create a path, and and it

770
00:41:08,703 --> 00:41:14,104
Speaker 3: also is about the ecosystem. You know, it's writers directors,

771
00:41:14,263 --> 00:41:15,943
Speaker 3: casting directors, producers, et cetera.

772
00:41:17,303 --> 00:41:17,623
Speaker 1: And so.

773
00:41:19,824 --> 00:41:23,223
Speaker 3: If there aren't enough writers that are even thinking to

774
00:41:23,344 --> 00:41:27,464
Speaker 3: write characters that I could play, and then maybe there

775
00:41:27,504 --> 00:41:31,984
Speaker 3: aren't directors that are thinking about casting me in a

776
00:41:32,143 --> 00:41:35,904
Speaker 3: role that I could play. You know, it's like who's

777
00:41:36,064 --> 00:41:42,104
Speaker 3: going to be able to create the opportunity if it's

778
00:41:43,623 --> 00:41:46,024
Speaker 3: who's going to be able to give me the opportunity

779
00:41:46,303 --> 00:41:52,663
Speaker 3: if the opportunity doesn't even exist, which some would say, like,

780
00:41:52,864 --> 00:41:55,343
Speaker 3: I should be able to play any role that I'm

781
00:41:55,424 --> 00:42:00,904
Speaker 3: right for and that maybe was not initially written to

782
00:42:01,064 --> 00:42:07,504
Speaker 3: be of color or trans. But but I also understand

783
00:42:07,623 --> 00:42:10,984
Speaker 3: that a role that I'm really right for is probably

784
00:42:11,064 --> 00:42:14,104
Speaker 3: we've written for someone like me, which was the case

785
00:42:14,143 --> 00:42:17,143
Speaker 3: in Baby Reindeer, Like the role was a trans woman

786
00:42:17,183 --> 00:42:21,384
Speaker 3: of color. So it's like it makes sense that it

787
00:42:21,703 --> 00:42:22,544
Speaker 3: worked so well.

788
00:42:22,663 --> 00:42:25,224
Speaker 2: You know, then if there's only one of those roles

789
00:42:25,263 --> 00:42:29,223
Speaker 2: every blue Moon and there's multiple trans women of color actresses, Yeah,

790
00:42:29,783 --> 00:42:32,944
Speaker 2: and then I got that one, guys, Yeah, wait till

791
00:42:32,984 --> 00:42:33,703
Speaker 2: the next one, you know.

792
00:42:33,783 --> 00:42:36,263
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm not even I mean, I'm like, you know,

793
00:42:37,143 --> 00:42:43,623
Speaker 3: I'm so white adjacent. It is kind of like baffling

794
00:42:43,743 --> 00:42:46,104
Speaker 3: sometimes that it's like and I'm still not white.

795
00:42:46,024 --> 00:42:49,703
Speaker 2: Enough for sure, Like whoa, no, you have that that

796
00:42:50,104 --> 00:42:52,903
Speaker 2: that like you say white passing, but like every person

797
00:42:52,944 --> 00:42:55,223
Speaker 2: of color is like no, there's that's why Google, Like

798
00:42:55,344 --> 00:42:57,783
Speaker 2: I think this is Mexico City.

799
00:42:57,864 --> 00:42:58,544
Speaker 1: There we go. Ok.

800
00:42:59,143 --> 00:43:05,863
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so it's it's like, you know, I don't

801
00:43:05,944 --> 00:43:11,424
Speaker 3: expect much from the industry, which is again how I

802
00:43:11,783 --> 00:43:12,743
Speaker 3: so started.

803
00:43:13,104 --> 00:43:15,303
Speaker 1: But yeah, but yes, I will accept that you say that.

804
00:43:15,384 --> 00:43:18,104
Speaker 2: And also you were nominated for like a ton of

805
00:43:18,183 --> 00:43:21,704
Speaker 2: award like you are in the industry, in the industry

806
00:43:21,743 --> 00:43:24,584
Speaker 2: has said good job, and then yet you're still understanding

807
00:43:24,623 --> 00:43:26,263
Speaker 2: the position, like I don't expect.

808
00:43:26,024 --> 00:43:26,824
Speaker 1: Much from the industry.

809
00:43:27,384 --> 00:43:32,623
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean, if anyone's listening, you know, yeah,

810
00:43:34,143 --> 00:43:37,663
Speaker 3: and yeah, I do think that what I would like

811
00:43:37,783 --> 00:43:42,544
Speaker 3: to see is for people to see themselves more as

812
00:43:42,623 --> 00:43:45,943
Speaker 3: agents of change in the industry, which is not at

813
00:43:46,064 --> 00:43:49,383
Speaker 3: all how our industry is structured, and it's not when

814
00:43:49,424 --> 00:43:50,424
Speaker 3: it encourages I.

815
00:43:50,424 --> 00:43:53,143
Speaker 2: Would say, especially right now, there are moments that people

816
00:43:53,143 --> 00:43:56,503
Speaker 2: talk about that that sort of post George Floyd Black

817
00:43:56,544 --> 00:43:58,823
Speaker 2: Lives Matter protests, where like the industry suddenly was like

818
00:43:58,904 --> 00:44:01,703
Speaker 2: I remember, I had a ton of meetings and I'm

819
00:44:01,743 --> 00:44:04,384
Speaker 2: not happy if I would have preferred George Floyd hadn't

820
00:44:04,464 --> 00:44:06,024
Speaker 2: died or had been murdered by the cops, and I

821
00:44:06,223 --> 00:44:07,343
Speaker 2: prefer that, like we didn't have to go to the

822
00:44:07,384 --> 00:44:09,383
Speaker 2: street with Black Lives Matter protests in the middle COVID.

823
00:44:09,663 --> 00:44:11,263
Speaker 2: But there was a time where like suddenly like, oh,

824
00:44:11,424 --> 00:44:14,024
Speaker 2: this person, these executives, these people in power want to

825
00:44:14,024 --> 00:44:15,743
Speaker 2: meet with you, come out and talk about you know what.

826
00:44:16,024 --> 00:44:21,143
Speaker 1: No, no, no. And but then just that was also the.

827
00:44:21,424 --> 00:44:23,504
Speaker 2: Year that Juneteenth was made a holiday, and there was

828
00:44:23,504 --> 00:44:25,904
Speaker 2: all this remember being like, that's not what we asked for.

829
00:44:27,064 --> 00:44:29,223
Speaker 2: I'm happy to have a day off, but that wasn't

830
00:44:29,584 --> 00:44:31,423
Speaker 2: high on the list of things that black people were

831
00:44:31,504 --> 00:44:34,464
Speaker 2: like and we need a holiday. I mean, no offense

832
00:44:34,504 --> 00:44:38,584
Speaker 2: to Juneteenth, but like you know, mass mass incarceration being ended,

833
00:44:39,024 --> 00:44:41,783
Speaker 2: you know, uh yeah. In my act around Juneteenth, my

834
00:44:41,864 --> 00:44:44,384
Speaker 2: kids love is that I get frustrated when you email

835
00:44:44,424 --> 00:44:46,024
Speaker 2: white people on June teenth and you get back an

836
00:44:46,024 --> 00:44:47,584
Speaker 2: out of office return on the email.

837
00:44:48,143 --> 00:44:51,504
Speaker 1: Exactly. No, that's what I was. Yeah, I was.

838
00:44:51,663 --> 00:44:56,503
Speaker 3: I was invited to a June teen cookout, but there

839
00:44:56,824 --> 00:45:01,344
Speaker 3: was no black people inviting teenth cookout. I did not attend.

840
00:45:01,464 --> 00:45:03,223
Speaker 3: I was like I already know what it's gonna be.

841
00:45:03,944 --> 00:45:06,903
Speaker 3: But it's just like, we're not figure that one.

842
00:45:07,504 --> 00:45:10,383
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one as soon as June Team was made,

843
00:45:10,384 --> 00:45:12,824
Speaker 2: when they made a ho great but not exact anyway.

844
00:45:13,104 --> 00:45:16,864
Speaker 2: So I have there are times of the industry in

845
00:45:16,944 --> 00:45:19,104
Speaker 2: my lifetimes happened several times like there's not the black

846
00:45:19,104 --> 00:45:21,263
Speaker 2: people on TV, and then there's a protest or al

847
00:45:21,344 --> 00:45:23,263
Speaker 2: sharp it shows up and then it looks like and

848
00:45:23,303 --> 00:45:24,143
Speaker 2: then there's a couple of things.

849
00:45:24,303 --> 00:45:25,104
Speaker 1: Oh, it's better now.

850
00:45:25,904 --> 00:45:28,344
Speaker 2: So there are times that it's better, but it's particularly

851
00:45:28,464 --> 00:45:32,863
Speaker 2: bad now. It's particularly bad for everybody you know who

852
00:45:32,984 --> 00:45:35,544
Speaker 2: is not playing ball with the industry, like unless you're

853
00:45:35,944 --> 00:45:41,064
Speaker 2: you're making a tribute to Milania Trump movie, Like you know,

854
00:45:41,223 --> 00:45:44,464
Speaker 2: it's it's not it's just there's not you know, the

855
00:45:44,584 --> 00:45:45,783
Speaker 2: most expensive document.

856
00:45:47,104 --> 00:45:50,663
Speaker 1: Let me not let me. I'm I'm getting you. I'm

857
00:45:50,663 --> 00:45:53,024
Speaker 1: pulling you into that. It's it's just bad. I'm just

858
00:45:53,104 --> 00:45:53,783
Speaker 1: that's my whole point.

859
00:45:53,864 --> 00:45:56,864
Speaker 2: It's bad for everybody, but worse the more identities you

860
00:45:56,944 --> 00:45:59,503
Speaker 2: hold that aren't heterosexual, cyst gender, white male.

861
00:45:59,743 --> 00:46:02,104
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you feeling it too?

862
00:46:02,424 --> 00:46:02,544
Speaker 1: Oh?

863
00:46:02,663 --> 00:46:05,104
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this right here is a result of

864
00:46:05,223 --> 00:46:08,504
Speaker 2: me feeling like I like it's a I've done this before,

865
00:46:08,623 --> 00:46:11,423
Speaker 2: but it's it's the first time I've ever like, Okay,

866
00:46:11,464 --> 00:46:14,863
Speaker 2: I need to make this myself. And I'm surrounded by

867
00:46:14,944 --> 00:46:18,904
Speaker 2: great people here at Rabbit Grin and and uh and Pushkins,

868
00:46:19,024 --> 00:46:21,783
Speaker 2: but it's all I was sup to be quite. I

869
00:46:21,864 --> 00:46:24,104
Speaker 2: own it like it's all it's all my things because

870
00:46:24,104 --> 00:46:25,584
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to own it like in this,

871
00:46:26,024 --> 00:46:28,384
Speaker 2: in this point in the universe of my career, I

872
00:46:28,504 --> 00:46:30,424
Speaker 2: can't like let somebody else own a part of it

873
00:46:30,783 --> 00:46:32,424
Speaker 2: and not get and if there's a benefit and be

874
00:46:32,504 --> 00:46:35,424
Speaker 2: feeling so yeah, this is I mean, I'm on I

875
00:46:35,504 --> 00:46:38,303
Speaker 2: have a newsletter that I you know, so there's a

876
00:46:38,344 --> 00:46:40,184
Speaker 2: lot of things I'm doing that are independent of the business.

877
00:46:40,344 --> 00:46:42,343
Speaker 2: And then also I get called into meetings to like

878
00:46:42,464 --> 00:46:45,663
Speaker 2: meet on bigger things and just go, I'll still show up, yeah,

879
00:46:45,743 --> 00:46:48,064
Speaker 2: and hope I get it. Yeah, I mean, but I

880
00:46:48,143 --> 00:46:49,424
Speaker 2: can't depend on it and.

881
00:46:49,703 --> 00:46:54,823
Speaker 3: And yeah, like don't get it twisted. Like I I'm

882
00:46:54,864 --> 00:47:00,143
Speaker 3: still auditioning for things that would be incredible and and

883
00:47:00,303 --> 00:47:05,264
Speaker 3: would potentially take me back to that to that world stage.

884
00:47:07,904 --> 00:47:09,064
Speaker 1: But you know.

885
00:47:11,143 --> 00:47:16,744
Speaker 3: They're few and far between, yes, Yeah, And everybody, everybody

886
00:47:17,104 --> 00:47:18,903
Speaker 3: is desperate for work right now.

887
00:47:18,984 --> 00:47:20,783
Speaker 1: Well, that's the other thing is like I still I

888
00:47:20,904 --> 00:47:21,663
Speaker 1: show for these things.

889
00:47:21,743 --> 00:47:23,623
Speaker 2: For me, it's like I don't act, but like I

890
00:47:23,743 --> 00:47:26,183
Speaker 2: direct documentaries, and so I get called into like meet

891
00:47:26,223 --> 00:47:29,223
Speaker 2: for documentaries for like major for big projects, and I

892
00:47:29,303 --> 00:47:31,663
Speaker 2: know there's like, you know, if they're calling me, that

893
00:47:31,743 --> 00:47:35,143
Speaker 2: means they're calling all the blacks, all the black directors,

894
00:47:35,504 --> 00:47:37,423
Speaker 2: you know. So I'm like, and there's just there's enough

895
00:47:37,464 --> 00:47:41,104
Speaker 2: that's that Like, so I understand, like I'm if you

896
00:47:41,143 --> 00:47:42,864
Speaker 2: want me, you want me, but also you may not

897
00:47:42,944 --> 00:47:44,464
Speaker 2: want me, so you want somebody else. And good, you know,

898
00:47:44,544 --> 00:47:46,343
Speaker 2: I can't. I don't expect it just because you called

899
00:47:46,424 --> 00:47:48,183
Speaker 2: me that I must be the one, you know what

900
00:47:48,223 --> 00:47:51,504
Speaker 2: I mean, So you sort of keep it. But that's

901
00:47:51,544 --> 00:47:53,183
Speaker 2: the thing, I say, three kids, nine jobs, like I

902
00:47:53,223 --> 00:47:54,623
Speaker 2: just have to sort of keep a lot of things up.

903
00:47:54,544 --> 00:47:54,823
Speaker 1: In the air.

904
00:47:54,944 --> 00:47:57,264
Speaker 2: I'm doing a stand up comedy again because I can't.

905
00:47:57,783 --> 00:47:59,064
Speaker 2: You know, I had a good I had a good

906
00:47:59,143 --> 00:48:01,623
Speaker 2: seven year run on the United States of America where

907
00:48:01,703 --> 00:48:04,263
Speaker 2: like for seven years I knew what the bulk of

908
00:48:04,384 --> 00:48:06,703
Speaker 2: my career was, my career and income was gonna be

909
00:48:06,743 --> 00:48:08,744
Speaker 2: for the year. But I still always did other things

910
00:48:09,104 --> 00:48:11,743
Speaker 2: because my parents didn't raise me to be stupid, so

911
00:48:12,623 --> 00:48:14,343
Speaker 2: and so when that went away, I just turned up

912
00:48:14,344 --> 00:48:15,463
Speaker 2: the volume all the other things.

913
00:48:15,584 --> 00:48:16,823
Speaker 1: But again.

914
00:48:18,344 --> 00:48:21,064
Speaker 2: None of us knew, like, you know, I knew it

915
00:48:21,143 --> 00:48:25,983
Speaker 2: was bad. And then uh uh that the Paramount Plus

916
00:48:26,064 --> 00:48:27,864
Speaker 2: got bought by you know what I mean, like it

917
00:48:28,183 --> 00:48:30,463
Speaker 2: it was already bad, and then Paramount Plus got bought

918
00:48:30,584 --> 00:48:33,263
Speaker 2: it was already bad. And then Warner Brothers has been

919
00:48:33,464 --> 00:48:36,384
Speaker 2: subsumed by you know, it's already bad, like it's just

920
00:48:36,584 --> 00:48:39,263
Speaker 2: and so seeing that, it's like, well, I'm not I'm

921
00:48:39,303 --> 00:48:41,343
Speaker 2: not turning my back on this industry completely, but I

922
00:48:41,424 --> 00:48:42,384
Speaker 2: also can't rely on it.

923
00:48:42,743 --> 00:48:46,263
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again I got you know, my kids aren't

924
00:48:46,303 --> 00:48:48,223
Speaker 1: like what can we eat tonight? You? Oh, you worked

925
00:48:48,263 --> 00:48:50,863
Speaker 1: on something on your laptop? You know, like I got yeah.

926
00:48:51,183 --> 00:48:54,183
Speaker 3: Yeah, And can I say, yes, if we're going to

927
00:48:54,303 --> 00:48:57,783
Speaker 3: do all these consolidations and mergers that nobody wants and

928
00:48:57,904 --> 00:49:00,504
Speaker 3: that are bad for the people, yeah, can we at

929
00:49:00,663 --> 00:49:03,544
Speaker 3: least figure out a way for it to actually make

930
00:49:03,663 --> 00:49:06,223
Speaker 3: things better? Like I don't have to look things up

931
00:49:06,344 --> 00:49:09,663
Speaker 3: on showtime on Paramount Plus channel on Amazon?

932
00:49:10,024 --> 00:49:10,344
Speaker 1: Please?

933
00:49:11,424 --> 00:49:11,744
Speaker 3: Please?

934
00:49:11,824 --> 00:49:12,704
Speaker 1: Can it be easier?

935
00:49:13,064 --> 00:49:16,623
Speaker 3: Have you seen those posters where it's literally like watch

936
00:49:16,783 --> 00:49:19,343
Speaker 3: now and then it's like four networks and you have

937
00:49:19,464 --> 00:49:22,183
Speaker 3: to go through that. And then also to cancel your

938
00:49:22,303 --> 00:49:25,423
Speaker 3: free trial, you have to log into your roque who

939
00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:29,223
Speaker 3: account through your email address, but you can't cancel it

940
00:49:29,344 --> 00:49:30,024
Speaker 3: on the Roku.

941
00:49:30,223 --> 00:49:32,903
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you yeah, I thought this is also

942
00:49:33,104 --> 00:49:35,024
Speaker 1: be easier. I mean, it's funny.

943
00:49:35,024 --> 00:49:38,263
Speaker 2: I don't it's I think the way it's gonna end

944
00:49:38,344 --> 00:49:40,664
Speaker 2: up changing is because now it's affected like your average

945
00:49:40,663 --> 00:49:42,904
Speaker 2: sports fans who are like, wait a minute, I just

946
00:49:42,944 --> 00:49:47,544
Speaker 2: want to watch football. Once it affects those people, that

947
00:49:47,703 --> 00:49:51,024
Speaker 2: it'll hopefully change. But yeah, it's but yeah, I think

948
00:49:51,064 --> 00:49:53,623
Speaker 2: that it's it's none of it has made things better,

949
00:49:53,743 --> 00:49:56,064
Speaker 2: easier or cheaper, you.

950
00:49:56,143 --> 00:49:57,944
Speaker 3: Know, certainly not cheaper.

951
00:49:58,143 --> 00:50:00,143
Speaker 1: And now they will like pull down projects that are

952
00:50:00,183 --> 00:50:01,904
Speaker 1: on platforms just because they're like, eh.

953
00:50:02,824 --> 00:50:05,544
Speaker 3: That happened to a show I was on. Generation.

954
00:50:06,064 --> 00:50:07,663
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. Generation.

955
00:50:07,944 --> 00:50:12,504
Speaker 3: Generation was such an incredible opportunity and.

956
00:50:13,944 --> 00:50:15,944
Speaker 1: Tell people about Generation. I haven't seen it best. I

957
00:50:16,024 --> 00:50:17,024
Speaker 1: read about it well.

958
00:50:17,024 --> 00:50:18,504
Speaker 3: And if you wanted to see it, you couldn't. I

959
00:50:18,544 --> 00:50:25,143
Speaker 3: guess you know. Generation was this beautiful HBO Max show

960
00:50:25,464 --> 00:50:28,303
Speaker 3: that we were one of the first shows to go

961
00:50:28,384 --> 00:50:31,423
Speaker 3: back into production. After the pandemic, and then we were

962
00:50:31,464 --> 00:50:35,663
Speaker 3: one of the first shows to premiere in twenty twenty one,

963
00:50:36,104 --> 00:50:42,344
Speaker 3: and it was like a high school teen comedy drama.

964
00:50:45,223 --> 00:50:47,863
Speaker 3: It just had a very vibrant cast and a lot

965
00:50:47,944 --> 00:50:50,703
Speaker 3: of those actors have now gone on to other projects.

966
00:50:52,743 --> 00:50:56,904
Speaker 3: And it just actually doesn't make any sense to me

967
00:50:56,984 --> 00:50:58,424
Speaker 3: why they would have taken that offense.

968
00:50:58,904 --> 00:51:00,703
Speaker 2: One season they canceled it, but now they don't even

969
00:51:00,783 --> 00:51:02,224
Speaker 2: want that season to be up online.

970
00:51:02,263 --> 00:51:06,263
Speaker 3: It was online for like one year, and it had,

971
00:51:06,504 --> 00:51:08,863
Speaker 3: you know, it had like a fan base, and for sure,

972
00:51:09,143 --> 00:51:12,024
Speaker 3: you know, you know, there's there's a lot going on

973
00:51:12,544 --> 00:51:17,544
Speaker 3: behind the cancelation that is beyond all of our control.

974
00:51:17,984 --> 00:51:19,743
Speaker 1: But are you saying political?

975
00:51:21,303 --> 00:51:25,783
Speaker 3: But but you know, it is kind of sad to

976
00:51:25,904 --> 00:51:29,743
Speaker 3: see that there are people online. You still see it,

977
00:51:29,904 --> 00:51:32,623
Speaker 3: Like people tweet, go on Reddit and stuff and they're like,

978
00:51:32,864 --> 00:51:35,544
Speaker 3: how can I watch this show? Or they'll post like

979
00:51:36,303 --> 00:51:38,903
Speaker 3: they'll post like the memories. You know, they'll be like, oh,

980
00:51:40,344 --> 00:51:42,424
Speaker 3: like I remember when I could watch the show and

981
00:51:42,904 --> 00:51:47,223
Speaker 3: and yeah, I mean it just it just feels so

982
00:51:47,984 --> 00:51:54,944
Speaker 3: greedy for the corporations to make decisions based on tax deductions.

983
00:51:55,504 --> 00:51:58,823
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that doesn't even make sense. Like when they

984
00:51:58,824 --> 00:52:01,584
Speaker 2: explained to you, like that doesn't understand it. And the

985
00:52:01,623 --> 00:52:04,223
Speaker 2: whole point of this whole internet plugged in everything is

986
00:52:04,223 --> 00:52:07,424
Speaker 2: we're supposed to have access to everything, right, that was

987
00:52:07,424 --> 00:52:09,743
Speaker 2: all point is that I remember the time of thinking

988
00:52:09,743 --> 00:52:11,424
Speaker 2: that would be ridiculous, and we had it for about

989
00:52:11,424 --> 00:52:13,663
Speaker 2: five years and the like that's we don't want to

990
00:52:13,783 --> 00:52:33,383
Speaker 2: we don't want to do that. M talking about all

991
00:52:33,424 --> 00:52:35,263
Speaker 2: this in the and you know we said earlier, you

992
00:52:35,344 --> 00:52:37,223
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier and I said too about like a lot

993
00:52:37,303 --> 00:52:41,383
Speaker 2: of these attacks on trans folks come from like the right,

994
00:52:41,783 --> 00:52:47,143
Speaker 2: like you know, the gop maga. Not all of them

995
00:52:47,183 --> 00:52:49,303
Speaker 2: come from people who are identified with the right.

996
00:52:50,143 --> 00:52:54,263
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, Yeah, there's plenty of there's plenty of people

997
00:52:54,464 --> 00:52:58,743
Speaker 3: that have decided to come join the hate train.

998
00:52:59,024 --> 00:52:59,263
Speaker 1: Yeah.

999
00:52:59,703 --> 00:53:04,623
Speaker 2: A few weeks ago, Dave Chappelle, who is several of

1000
00:53:04,703 --> 00:53:06,743
Speaker 2: his Netflix specials in a row, he's had sections where

1001
00:53:06,824 --> 00:53:11,384
Speaker 2: he was told made fun of trans people, whether or

1002
00:53:11,384 --> 00:53:12,783
Speaker 2: not you think they're jokes, jokes in the eye of

1003
00:53:12,783 --> 00:53:15,984
Speaker 2: the beholder, but he targeted he used his material to

1004
00:53:16,344 --> 00:53:21,623
Speaker 2: make fun of trans people and speak for their experience,

1005
00:53:21,703 --> 00:53:23,343
Speaker 2: and he's done it several specials in a row, and

1006
00:53:23,424 --> 00:53:25,903
Speaker 2: recently he was on NPR and said that the right

1007
00:53:26,024 --> 00:53:30,544
Speaker 2: weaponized those jokes against UH, used those jokes to and

1008
00:53:30,663 --> 00:53:33,263
Speaker 2: weaponize them to get people to vote for them.

1009
00:53:34,703 --> 00:53:36,383
Speaker 1: I had thoughts on that. I shared them on.

1010
00:53:38,743 --> 00:53:40,464
Speaker 2: I was on CNN in twenty twenty one when The

1011
00:53:40,504 --> 00:53:42,544
Speaker 2: Closer came out, especially where he sort of doubled down

1012
00:53:42,584 --> 00:53:45,504
Speaker 2: on these trans jokes, and back then, I was like,

1013
00:53:45,783 --> 00:53:47,463
Speaker 2: I just think Dave should be careful because these jokes

1014
00:53:47,504 --> 00:53:50,183
Speaker 2: are going to be used against So I'm not trying

1015
00:53:50,183 --> 00:53:51,864
Speaker 2: to say, yeah, I knew it, because I knew it

1016
00:53:51,904 --> 00:53:53,783
Speaker 2: because I knew trans people, you know, and so.

1017
00:53:55,263 --> 00:53:59,424
Speaker 1: Any thoughts on any of that, any any and I

1018
00:53:59,623 --> 00:53:59,863
Speaker 1: was like.

1019
00:54:00,663 --> 00:54:05,783
Speaker 3: Why are you so obsessed with me? You know, That's

1020
00:54:06,223 --> 00:54:09,864
Speaker 3: that's first and foremost. Yeah, yeah, Actually, why is he

1021
00:54:09,944 --> 00:54:17,263
Speaker 3: so obsessed? That speaks to something something within, you.

1022
00:54:17,303 --> 00:54:22,544
Speaker 2: Know, because it has been several comedy specialist in a row. Yeah,

1023
00:54:22,743 --> 00:54:26,303
Speaker 2: he's sort of like the like, there's a commenting on

1024
00:54:26,384 --> 00:54:27,944
Speaker 2: the thing you did before that, you did before that,

1025
00:54:28,143 --> 00:54:29,623
Speaker 2: like that, it's just like it keeps going.

1026
00:54:30,743 --> 00:54:33,624
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had he knew trans people in his life,

1027
00:54:33,663 --> 00:54:35,784
Speaker 3: so that's also I think was his sort of initial

1028
00:54:35,944 --> 00:54:38,143
Speaker 3: entry point. I think to some of the jokes. You know,

1029
00:54:38,183 --> 00:54:41,223
Speaker 3: I stopped vanished, I stopped watching. I don't I think

1030
00:54:41,263 --> 00:54:43,663
Speaker 3: I saw when that first clip kind of went viral

1031
00:54:43,743 --> 00:54:45,944
Speaker 3: and then and then I just saw that he just

1032
00:54:46,024 --> 00:54:54,143
Speaker 3: kept doing it. I feel like it is it's not

1033
00:54:54,263 --> 00:54:59,424
Speaker 3: even that confusing that he would now be trying to

1034
00:54:59,464 --> 00:55:03,584
Speaker 3: walk it back. I think that's often how it goes

1035
00:55:03,743 --> 00:55:11,223
Speaker 3: when people make jokes about trans people and you know,

1036
00:55:11,424 --> 00:55:15,424
Speaker 3: sort of make proclamations about trans people. It's like something

1037
00:55:17,344 --> 00:55:20,383
Speaker 3: kind of pretty quickly registers that, oh, that wasn't quite

1038
00:55:20,504 --> 00:55:26,424
Speaker 3: right actually, or or something comes up in in someone's

1039
00:55:26,464 --> 00:55:29,984
Speaker 3: life where they realized that they were wrong, and that

1040
00:55:30,183 --> 00:55:35,504
Speaker 3: might be the case, and hopefully he knows that he

1041
00:55:35,663 --> 00:55:42,944
Speaker 3: was wrong. Yeah, but I think to say that he

1042
00:55:43,104 --> 00:55:48,823
Speaker 3: didn't know how people were going to take it. He's

1043
00:55:49,024 --> 00:55:52,984
Speaker 3: very smart, you know what I mean? It would actually

1044
00:55:53,424 --> 00:55:56,263
Speaker 3: work in his favor if he wasn't that smart and.

1045
00:55:56,263 --> 00:55:59,703
Speaker 1: We didn't know that, we didn't know. We know, you're

1046
00:55:59,703 --> 00:56:01,064
Speaker 1: smarter than this. Yeah.

1047
00:56:01,424 --> 00:56:05,464
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like unfortunately he already let us know

1048
00:56:06,223 --> 00:56:12,703
Speaker 3: what a genius he is and his previous work, so

1049
00:56:12,904 --> 00:56:16,944
Speaker 3: it just it just feels unbelievable for him to claim that.

1050
00:56:17,743 --> 00:56:17,943
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1051
00:56:17,944 --> 00:56:20,464
Speaker 2: I think That's the thing that I don't struggle with,

1052
00:56:20,544 --> 00:56:22,584
Speaker 2: but I'm just aware of. Like, so, me and Dave

1053
00:56:22,584 --> 00:56:26,143
Speaker 2: were the same age. I only know that because I

1054
00:56:26,263 --> 00:56:27,904
Speaker 2: knew people who were good friends with him, because he

1055
00:56:28,183 --> 00:56:29,823
Speaker 2: comes to he loves the Bay Area, he loves San

1056
00:56:29,824 --> 00:56:32,703
Speaker 2: Francisco camp, he loves the San Francisco punchline, and so

1057
00:56:32,783 --> 00:56:34,263
Speaker 2: he'd played there a lot. I opened for him a

1058
00:56:34,303 --> 00:56:36,064
Speaker 2: lot there, which just meant I was in a sort

1059
00:56:36,104 --> 00:56:38,143
Speaker 2: of extended circle of his people. I was never his

1060
00:56:38,344 --> 00:56:40,983
Speaker 2: friend in that way, but like so I just still

1061
00:56:40,984 --> 00:56:42,423
Speaker 2: were the same age because one year I was at

1062
00:56:42,464 --> 00:56:45,263
Speaker 2: his thirtieth birthday party just because I was like, at,

1063
00:56:45,663 --> 00:56:48,303
Speaker 2: oh I got invite, you know, yeah, me and you know,

1064
00:56:48,584 --> 00:56:50,343
Speaker 2: but I wasn't like I sort of stood on the

1065
00:56:50,384 --> 00:56:53,783
Speaker 2: side like this. But that's how I know we're the

1066
00:56:53,783 --> 00:56:56,024
Speaker 2: same age. But so I sort of feel like, I like,

1067
00:56:56,143 --> 00:56:59,623
Speaker 2: I understand being like I don't understand trans people. I

1068
00:56:59,663 --> 00:57:02,383
Speaker 2: don't get it, and and sort of I understand being

1069
00:57:02,464 --> 00:57:04,584
Speaker 2: like this is making me whatever. I don't know how

1070
00:57:04,623 --> 00:57:07,223
Speaker 2: to feel about this, But I also understand being like, oh,

1071
00:57:07,303 --> 00:57:11,823
Speaker 2: I think it's me, it's not actually them, to sort

1072
00:57:11,864 --> 00:57:13,183
Speaker 2: of be like I need to figure this out on

1073
00:57:13,263 --> 00:57:15,424
Speaker 2: my own or sit with people whoill help me figure

1074
00:57:15,424 --> 00:57:15,743
Speaker 2: this out.

1075
00:57:17,024 --> 00:57:17,624
Speaker 1: So I think that.

1076
00:57:18,544 --> 00:57:20,664
Speaker 2: And I also because I opened him all the time,

1077
00:57:20,744 --> 00:57:23,144
Speaker 2: is that he said he's we know he's smart. I

1078
00:57:23,224 --> 00:57:25,144
Speaker 2: saw him when he came back from South Africa and

1079
00:57:25,464 --> 00:57:27,064
Speaker 2: this comedy he was doing. I'm like, this is the

1080
00:57:27,104 --> 00:57:28,544
Speaker 2: best thing I kind of I've ever seen. This is

1081
00:57:28,664 --> 00:57:31,664
Speaker 2: pre Netflix, pre all this other stuff, and it was

1082
00:57:31,744 --> 00:57:33,304
Speaker 2: just like this guy who had gone through this thing

1083
00:57:33,344 --> 00:57:35,384
Speaker 2: with Comedy Central and all these things that happened, and

1084
00:57:35,424 --> 00:57:37,104
Speaker 2: he just was like sort of like on stage is

1085
00:57:37,144 --> 00:57:40,463
Speaker 2: like and it was like I feel like whatever people

1086
00:57:40,464 --> 00:57:42,624
Speaker 2: thought rich, whatever people say rich prior was like, I'm

1087
00:57:42,664 --> 00:57:43,024
Speaker 2: seeing that.

1088
00:57:43,464 --> 00:57:43,664
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1089
00:57:43,904 --> 00:57:46,304
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I feel like this, all this, all these

1090
00:57:46,384 --> 00:57:48,984
Speaker 2: trans jokes is sort of it's like letting down his own.

1091
00:57:48,904 --> 00:57:49,664
Speaker 1: Talent, you know.

1092
00:57:50,304 --> 00:57:53,224
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, like yeah Low is hanging through.

1093
00:57:53,384 --> 00:57:59,024
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I've seen him. I've seen him levitate rooms

1094
00:57:59,144 --> 00:58:01,823
Speaker 2: with this with his comedy. Like people just are something there, like.

1095
00:58:01,944 --> 00:58:04,584
Speaker 3: Right, like he didn't even need to. It was just

1096
00:58:04,904 --> 00:58:08,464
Speaker 3: I mean, clearly he had to get something off his chest,

1097
00:58:08,624 --> 00:58:12,664
Speaker 3: I don't you know. Yeah, to ask other people have

1098
00:58:12,784 --> 00:58:16,104
Speaker 3: spoken uh more eloquently.

1099
00:58:18,064 --> 00:58:21,823
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, Trace has talked about it.

1100
00:58:21,944 --> 00:58:26,624
Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say. I like I

1101
00:58:26,744 --> 00:58:28,664
Speaker 3: was gonna say you should have traceless.

1102
00:58:28,184 --> 00:58:32,424
Speaker 1: That come on. Yeah, yeah, doctor Tracy.

1103
00:58:32,624 --> 00:58:37,304
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't care for sure, and.

1104
00:58:37,304 --> 00:58:39,264
Speaker 1: I don't mean to take up more of your time

1105
00:58:39,304 --> 00:58:40,984
Speaker 1: than we need to talking about it.

1106
00:58:41,184 --> 00:58:45,184
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just felt like, you know, part of

1107
00:58:45,264 --> 00:58:46,904
Speaker 2: what I want to do in my life is just

1108
00:58:47,264 --> 00:58:49,144
Speaker 2: trying to show people how to have the right conversation,

1109
00:58:49,744 --> 00:58:51,423
Speaker 2: and also for myself, I want to have the right

1110
00:58:51,464 --> 00:58:53,264
Speaker 2: conversation so we can move away from that.

1111
00:58:53,504 --> 00:58:55,224
Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you about it, but certainly

1112
00:58:55,744 --> 00:58:56,903
Speaker 1: I don't want to spend your time.

1113
00:58:57,864 --> 00:59:02,264
Speaker 2: So let's talk about this because, uh, you talked about

1114
00:59:02,264 --> 00:59:04,424
Speaker 2: how you didn't see yourself as an actor, and a

1115
00:59:04,504 --> 00:59:06,224
Speaker 2: lot of you so much of your background is as

1116
00:59:06,224 --> 00:59:06,864
Speaker 2: an activist.

1117
00:59:08,584 --> 00:59:13,544
Speaker 3: It's funny. Yeah, go ahead, No, I want you to

1118
00:59:13,584 --> 00:59:16,624
Speaker 3: go ahead that I'm always very careful with the word ACTIVISTY.

1119
00:59:16,624 --> 00:59:17,664
Speaker 1: Understand that, I understand.

1120
00:59:17,744 --> 00:59:21,024
Speaker 2: I just I'm the same, Yeah, because there's actual activists

1121
00:59:21,024 --> 00:59:23,744
Speaker 2: who are like waking up at two am packing boxes

1122
00:59:23,904 --> 00:59:27,304
Speaker 2: and you know, can't afford a new prayer, shoes in prison,

1123
00:59:27,424 --> 00:59:30,904
Speaker 2: in prison, and who are like every day they are

1124
00:59:30,984 --> 00:59:32,664
Speaker 2: doing it for free, you know.

1125
00:59:32,824 --> 00:59:35,624
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I hear that. So you have a.

1126
00:59:38,624 --> 00:59:42,984
Speaker 2: Lot of your early years you worked in advocacy organizations,

1127
00:59:43,784 --> 00:59:46,064
Speaker 2: and we're either whether or not you were an actors

1128
00:59:46,224 --> 00:59:49,104
Speaker 2: or not your activism adjacent and your work was probably

1129
00:59:49,184 --> 00:59:49,944
Speaker 2: used for activism.

1130
00:59:50,104 --> 00:59:55,343
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's like so much of what led

1131
00:59:55,424 --> 00:59:58,784
Speaker 3: me to all the work I've done is like I

1132
00:59:59,064 --> 01:00:06,624
Speaker 3: just didn't I didn't know any other way. I didn't

1133
01:00:06,704 --> 01:00:11,624
Speaker 3: question it. I didn't question it. Like I always love school,

1134
01:00:12,464 --> 01:00:17,624
Speaker 3: and what I loved even more was staying after school

1135
01:00:18,184 --> 01:00:21,704
Speaker 3: and being a part of ten after school clubs.

1136
01:00:21,784 --> 01:00:22,184
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

1137
01:00:22,704 --> 01:00:28,024
Speaker 3: So yes, and I went to a nerd school, you know,

1138
01:00:28,424 --> 01:00:33,904
Speaker 3: like yeah, which is great. Yeah, I went to a

1139
01:00:33,984 --> 01:00:37,784
Speaker 3: school that was like for training people to work in

1140
01:00:37,824 --> 01:00:41,144
Speaker 3: health careers. So I went to like a science and

1141
01:00:41,504 --> 01:00:44,424
Speaker 3: math school. But then the clubs got to be like

1142
01:00:44,464 --> 01:00:47,664
Speaker 3: everything else, and so I was in drama club, I

1143
01:00:49,824 --> 01:00:52,504
Speaker 3: I like, uh, was one of the co founders of

1144
01:00:52,584 --> 01:00:59,944
Speaker 3: this environmentalist club called Heroes, And I was an interact

1145
01:01:00,144 --> 01:01:04,944
Speaker 3: which is a rotary club, a rotary sponsored high school

1146
01:01:05,024 --> 01:01:10,463
Speaker 3: level club. And so service was really a big part

1147
01:01:10,544 --> 01:01:13,584
Speaker 3: of all all of that. I mean, it was like

1148
01:01:13,664 --> 01:01:18,064
Speaker 3: what I loved the most. I like created a plastic

1149
01:01:18,144 --> 01:01:20,584
Speaker 3: recycling system because we didn't have one, and it was

1150
01:01:20,944 --> 01:01:27,024
Speaker 3: I was I was incensed in San Antonio. You know,

1151
01:01:27,104 --> 01:01:30,664
Speaker 3: I made my family start composting before before you know,

1152
01:01:30,784 --> 01:01:33,464
Speaker 3: when you have to go figure out.

1153
01:01:33,344 --> 01:01:34,823
Speaker 1: How to do that, you have to take the thing

1154
01:01:34,904 --> 01:01:35,704
Speaker 1: to the compost place.

1155
01:01:35,784 --> 01:01:39,544
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, well no, we would compost like I

1156
01:01:40,104 --> 01:01:42,664
Speaker 3: taught my family how to compost and make our own coms.

1157
01:01:42,744 --> 01:01:43,104
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

1158
01:01:44,144 --> 01:01:46,104
Speaker 3: And then with Interact there was just all kinds of

1159
01:01:46,584 --> 01:01:52,064
Speaker 3: service engagements and and then in college I had two jobs.

1160
01:01:52,104 --> 01:01:55,304
Speaker 3: I worked at the Queer Resource Center and the community

1161
01:01:55,704 --> 01:02:01,704
Speaker 3: the Trade per Center of Community Partnerships, and it was

1162
01:02:01,784 --> 01:02:03,864
Speaker 3: kind of similar where it was like, yes I was

1163
01:02:03,944 --> 01:02:08,304
Speaker 3: there for school, Yes I loved school, but really my

1164
01:02:08,424 --> 01:02:12,744
Speaker 3: favorite part is these two jobs I had. And I

1165
01:02:13,504 --> 01:02:16,784
Speaker 3: created a program there called LEGS, the Leadership and Engagement

1166
01:02:17,424 --> 01:02:21,144
Speaker 3: Program in Gender and Sexuality that was a college access

1167
01:02:21,184 --> 01:02:25,503
Speaker 3: program for local high school students to uh be able

1168
01:02:25,584 --> 01:02:29,784
Speaker 3: to come onto campus because it's like, you know, you

1169
01:02:29,904 --> 01:02:33,544
Speaker 3: can't you what is there's a phrase?

1170
01:02:33,624 --> 01:02:33,904
Speaker 1: What is it?

1171
01:02:34,024 --> 01:02:36,984
Speaker 3: You can't be what you can't see or you know

1172
01:02:37,064 --> 01:02:40,664
Speaker 3: what I mean? You basically to to create the possibility

1173
01:02:40,744 --> 01:02:44,784
Speaker 3: models and to create the sort of personal links between

1174
01:02:45,344 --> 01:02:49,784
Speaker 3: the college and the local area. Oh and the e

1175
01:02:49,904 --> 01:02:55,744
Speaker 3: s L program, the ESL tutoring program, uh, was this

1176
01:02:55,904 --> 01:03:00,264
Speaker 3: program where college students would get matched with housekeeping staff

1177
01:03:00,304 --> 01:03:03,904
Speaker 3: and cleaning staff who were mostly non English speaking, and

1178
01:03:04,584 --> 01:03:07,144
Speaker 3: they would teach them e SL. So that, you know,

1179
01:03:07,464 --> 01:03:12,784
Speaker 3: I just like felt so in my purpose and and

1180
01:03:12,944 --> 01:03:16,144
Speaker 3: so connected like it was that. I mean, you know,

1181
01:03:16,384 --> 01:03:20,264
Speaker 3: those were real communities that were built, and and when

1182
01:03:20,264 --> 01:03:23,383
Speaker 3: I run into people that are from those programs, it's

1183
01:03:23,424 --> 01:03:25,664
Speaker 3: still I mean, it's making me emotion right now to

1184
01:03:26,144 --> 01:03:31,664
Speaker 3: remember how grounded we were and and and and you

1185
01:03:31,704 --> 01:03:36,823
Speaker 3: could feel the change happening in the moment. And so

1186
01:03:36,944 --> 01:03:40,504
Speaker 3: then when I graduated, I started working with survivors of violence.

1187
01:03:42,704 --> 01:03:46,504
Speaker 3: And don't ask me how, I don't know. That was

1188
01:03:46,624 --> 01:03:50,184
Speaker 3: just what felt what felt like I needed to do.

1189
01:03:52,184 --> 01:03:55,744
Speaker 3: And then that led me to become a counselor for

1190
01:03:55,864 --> 01:03:59,264
Speaker 3: survivors of violence. And I worked at Kupov Community United

1191
01:03:59,264 --> 01:04:05,104
Speaker 3: Against Violence in the Mission in San Francisco. And and

1192
01:04:05,264 --> 01:04:08,264
Speaker 3: so that was also a place where I really understood

1193
01:04:09,944 --> 01:04:13,544
Speaker 3: the potential of of healing work and and that that

1194
01:04:13,704 --> 01:04:17,504
Speaker 3: can include arts, that can include political advocacy. You know,

1195
01:04:17,624 --> 01:04:19,504
Speaker 3: we would be at city Hall, we would, you know,

1196
01:04:19,944 --> 01:04:22,264
Speaker 3: but also I would be one on one in the

1197
01:04:22,304 --> 01:04:27,624
Speaker 3: counseling room. And so I just got to understand what

1198
01:04:27,784 --> 01:04:31,384
Speaker 3: it is like to approach an issue such as intimate

1199
01:04:31,424 --> 01:04:36,024
Speaker 3: partner violence and hate violence from so many different angles,

1200
01:04:36,224 --> 01:04:40,304
Speaker 3: and that they all matter and they all intersect. And

1201
01:04:40,464 --> 01:04:45,304
Speaker 3: so when I then finally made the move to to

1202
01:04:45,704 --> 01:04:48,463
Speaker 3: try to be storyteller and work in film and TV,

1203
01:04:50,224 --> 01:04:51,464
Speaker 3: it's like I can't.

1204
01:04:51,824 --> 01:04:55,744
Speaker 1: Unlearn behind you all that nerd.

1205
01:04:57,744 --> 01:05:00,463
Speaker 3: I mean, it's that's the whole reason that I'm here

1206
01:05:01,384 --> 01:05:05,664
Speaker 3: is to keep doing that kind of work. And and

1207
01:05:05,784 --> 01:05:08,944
Speaker 3: you know, I'm I think some of I think some

1208
01:05:09,064 --> 01:05:12,903
Speaker 3: of my work has reflected that, and and it will

1209
01:05:12,944 --> 01:05:15,464
Speaker 3: continue to be my mission for the rest of my

1210
01:05:15,544 --> 01:05:20,504
Speaker 3: life to figure out how to bridge storytelling and entertainment

1211
01:05:20,584 --> 01:05:24,903
Speaker 3: work with some of this healing, justice and community focused work.

1212
01:05:26,344 --> 01:05:27,343
Speaker 3: And it's what we have to do.

1213
01:05:28,224 --> 01:05:32,144
Speaker 1: We have to, well we have to, but not all

1214
01:05:32,184 --> 01:05:32,504
Speaker 1: of us do.

1215
01:05:33,024 --> 01:05:34,823
Speaker 2: And I just want to care for all even more

1216
01:05:34,864 --> 01:05:38,144
Speaker 2: flowers like you mentioned, all the different causes, the environment,

1217
01:05:38,344 --> 01:05:42,343
Speaker 2: LGBTQ plus and partner violence like you know you you were,

1218
01:05:42,464 --> 01:05:46,344
Speaker 2: you were in all the spaces, you know, uh, helping

1219
01:05:46,624 --> 01:05:48,864
Speaker 2: we're gonna learn English's second language. Like you were in

1220
01:05:48,944 --> 01:05:51,423
Speaker 2: all the spaces you possibly could be in, you didn't

1221
01:05:51,464 --> 01:05:52,464
Speaker 2: see yourself confined to be.

1222
01:05:52,504 --> 01:05:53,624
Speaker 1: Like this is my area.

1223
01:05:54,024 --> 01:05:58,624
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that it was about what was around

1224
01:05:58,704 --> 01:06:02,704
Speaker 3: me and that those were needs that my community had,

1225
01:06:02,864 --> 01:06:05,544
Speaker 3: those were needs that the environment had around me, and

1226
01:06:05,704 --> 01:06:11,343
Speaker 3: so I just yeah, I felt like, well nobody else

1227
01:06:11,464 --> 01:06:12,584
Speaker 3: is gone to it, then I might as well.

1228
01:06:12,784 --> 01:06:15,463
Speaker 4: But also that a lot of other people were doing it, yes,

1229
01:06:15,584 --> 01:06:17,424
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like, no, yeah, I understand that,

1230
01:06:17,504 --> 01:06:19,464
Speaker 4: like there's a community of people doing it, and you

1231
01:06:19,504 --> 01:06:21,984
Speaker 4: feel like I can join these people in the And

1232
01:06:22,104 --> 01:06:23,624
Speaker 4: also they always need more help.

1233
01:06:24,224 --> 01:06:27,424
Speaker 2: No, No, nobody working in activism or advocacy is like

1234
01:06:27,704 --> 01:06:30,424
Speaker 2: we're full exactly. We don't need more help, you know,

1235
01:06:30,664 --> 01:06:32,184
Speaker 2: they just need If you're gonna come in here, you

1236
01:06:32,264 --> 01:06:33,744
Speaker 2: gotta do it the right way. If you don't, if

1237
01:06:33,744 --> 01:06:34,863
Speaker 2: you're gona do it the right way, you can stay

1238
01:06:34,864 --> 01:06:36,304
Speaker 2: over there. But if you're ready to do it, come

1239
01:06:36,384 --> 01:06:36,784
Speaker 2: on in here.

1240
01:06:37,104 --> 01:06:40,064
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And I and I really admire people who

1241
01:06:40,624 --> 01:06:46,344
Speaker 3: have sort of stayed focused on one issue and built

1242
01:06:46,544 --> 01:06:49,984
Speaker 3: a lot of infrastructure and and a lot of power

1243
01:06:50,064 --> 01:06:54,184
Speaker 3: around that work and sort of dedicate their life to it,

1244
01:06:54,584 --> 01:06:58,184
Speaker 3: and you know, every once in a while, I'm like, man,

1245
01:06:58,344 --> 01:07:01,664
Speaker 3: I should be doing more. You know, we're all here,

1246
01:07:01,864 --> 01:07:05,624
Speaker 3: but we have our purpose, right that's yeah.

1247
01:07:05,904 --> 01:07:08,424
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I think I mean, I'm for me.

1248
01:07:08,744 --> 01:07:10,343
Speaker 2: I think I put myself in all these areas because

1249
01:07:10,384 --> 01:07:10,823
Speaker 2: I just want.

1250
01:07:10,744 --> 01:07:13,264
Speaker 1: To know about all these different areas and like, you know,

1251
01:07:13,464 --> 01:07:16,304
Speaker 1: like so, yeah, I find myself just I want to

1252
01:07:16,304 --> 01:07:17,624
Speaker 1: know about this and be a part of the communities.

1253
01:07:17,664 --> 01:07:19,464
Speaker 2: And also I think for me, I'm really at this

1254
01:07:19,544 --> 01:07:22,664
Speaker 2: point of like the the mister Rogers model, mister Rogers model,

1255
01:07:22,704 --> 01:07:24,704
Speaker 2: Like I want people to know I'm one of the helpers.

1256
01:07:24,424 --> 01:07:26,664
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean. Like so with all

1257
01:07:26,744 --> 01:07:28,384
Speaker 1: this toxic everything out here, I'm like, no, no, no,

1258
01:07:28,704 --> 01:07:30,944
Speaker 1: not me. I'm not I'm not that. I'm over here

1259
01:07:30,944 --> 01:07:31,424
Speaker 1: if you need me.

1260
01:07:31,664 --> 01:07:31,944
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1261
01:07:32,544 --> 01:07:37,064
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's only gonna matter more and more.

1262
01:07:37,664 --> 01:07:38,464
Speaker 1: That's time because.

1263
01:07:39,784 --> 01:07:42,584
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, climate justice I think is going

1264
01:07:42,664 --> 01:07:47,064
Speaker 3: to be the unifying cause because we're going to feel

1265
01:07:47,104 --> 01:07:47,383
Speaker 3: the heat.

1266
01:07:47,744 --> 01:07:51,984
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you gotta fight for our civil rights. But

1267
01:07:52,064 --> 01:07:54,504
Speaker 2: first let's got to keep the planet here, or keep

1268
01:07:54,544 --> 01:07:56,504
Speaker 2: the oxygen on the plane. The planet's gonna be here.

1269
01:07:56,904 --> 01:07:58,383
Speaker 2: It's just the oxygen may not be here.

1270
01:07:59,064 --> 01:08:00,944
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're going to come together.

1271
01:08:01,824 --> 01:08:04,264
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna take care from your from your mouth

1272
01:08:04,424 --> 01:08:07,904
Speaker 2: to do whoever's in charge of that ere Yeah.

1273
01:08:09,744 --> 01:08:10,024
Speaker 1: Right now.

1274
01:08:10,264 --> 01:08:12,224
Speaker 3: I mean, you know it's not happening right now.

1275
01:08:12,424 --> 01:08:13,384
Speaker 1: Necessarily, I would.

1276
01:08:13,184 --> 01:08:14,704
Speaker 2: Say the hardest question to answer right now is how

1277
01:08:14,744 --> 01:08:19,624
Speaker 2: you doing? Yeah, before we got started, I have two

1278
01:08:19,664 --> 01:08:21,983
Speaker 2: more questions for you. Before we got started, we said,

1279
01:08:22,024 --> 01:08:23,464
Speaker 2: I don't know if we got this on tape, but

1280
01:08:24,304 --> 01:08:26,064
Speaker 2: you know, the Oakland came up, and you were like.

1281
01:08:27,864 --> 01:08:31,344
Speaker 1: I need to get back. Please, let's talk about Oakland.

1282
01:08:32,224 --> 01:08:37,664
Speaker 3: My god, oh, my god. Yes, Oakland. Okay, I mean,

1283
01:08:37,704 --> 01:08:40,424
Speaker 3: what to say? I lived in Oakland in a very

1284
01:08:40,544 --> 01:08:46,904
Speaker 3: formative time in my life. I you know, I was

1285
01:08:46,984 --> 01:08:51,464
Speaker 3: in a meeting years and years and years ago and

1286
01:08:51,584 --> 01:08:53,823
Speaker 3: I was pitching a show that was set in Oakland.

1287
01:08:53,864 --> 01:08:56,704
Speaker 3: And they were like, why Oakland because I'm not I'm

1288
01:08:56,744 --> 01:09:00,224
Speaker 3: not from Oakland, but I lived there, and I said,

1289
01:09:01,864 --> 01:09:06,304
Speaker 3: it's because everything happened there. It was like where I

1290
01:09:06,744 --> 01:09:10,704
Speaker 3: started my career. It was where I found my community,

1291
01:09:11,464 --> 01:09:14,023
Speaker 3: it was where I transitioned, so I found my identity,

1292
01:09:14,824 --> 01:09:18,544
Speaker 3: it was where I found my purpose. I made my

1293
01:09:18,704 --> 01:09:22,944
Speaker 3: first short film. I did Peacock Rebellion that has this

1294
01:09:23,024 --> 01:09:26,863
Speaker 3: program called brew Haha, which is a comedy storytelling training

1295
01:09:26,904 --> 01:09:29,144
Speaker 3: program for a trans woman of color. I did that

1296
01:09:29,304 --> 01:09:31,704
Speaker 3: two years in a row before I made my short film.

1297
01:09:33,184 --> 01:09:34,184
Speaker 3: So I've done stand up.

1298
01:09:34,384 --> 01:09:35,504
Speaker 1: I did. I didn't.

1299
01:09:35,584 --> 01:09:39,344
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't stand up Yeah in Oakland.

1300
01:09:40,544 --> 01:09:41,264
Speaker 1: No, oh my god.

1301
01:09:41,424 --> 01:09:44,024
Speaker 3: I yeah, I can't and I cannot do the crowd

1302
01:09:44,104 --> 01:09:47,064
Speaker 3: work the way that stand up is just crowd work now.

1303
01:09:48,944 --> 01:09:54,464
Speaker 3: But I but I yeah, like Oakland helped me see

1304
01:09:54,624 --> 01:09:59,504
Speaker 3: myself and helped me see the world. And there's just

1305
01:09:59,584 --> 01:10:05,064
Speaker 3: such a history of resistance and of an infrastructure of

1306
01:10:05,104 --> 01:10:11,544
Speaker 3: community that is felt and is undeniable. I feel like

1307
01:10:11,744 --> 01:10:16,224
Speaker 3: my heart found its language in Oakland. And whenever I

1308
01:10:16,384 --> 01:10:18,704
Speaker 3: think about Oakland and whenever I go back, it's like

1309
01:10:18,824 --> 01:10:20,904
Speaker 3: I get to speak the language that I know.

1310
01:10:22,224 --> 01:10:26,024
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a beautiful tribute. My heart found its language

1311
01:10:26,104 --> 01:10:28,784
Speaker 2: in Oakland. And so your your goals to move back

1312
01:10:28,864 --> 01:10:29,144
Speaker 2: up there?

1313
01:10:29,664 --> 01:10:29,904
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1314
01:10:30,144 --> 01:10:31,944
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, I mean.

1315
01:10:31,784 --> 01:10:33,584
Speaker 2: The industry's falling apart, just you might as well just

1316
01:10:33,664 --> 01:10:37,224
Speaker 2: be I feel like this is the year Southwest goes

1317
01:10:37,424 --> 01:10:38,584
Speaker 2: yeah several times a day.

1318
01:10:38,744 --> 01:10:40,464
Speaker 3: I don't mind the dry I'm about to get.

1319
01:10:40,384 --> 01:10:42,264
Speaker 1: On Southwest soon as we finish here, back up with

1320
01:10:42,384 --> 01:10:43,264
Speaker 1: like a subway ride.

1321
01:10:43,344 --> 01:10:48,064
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm trying to make my way.

1322
01:10:48,784 --> 01:10:51,704
Speaker 3: It's I have sort of built I really love my

1323
01:10:51,824 --> 01:10:56,984
Speaker 3: home here, and it has felt hard to let go.

1324
01:10:57,584 --> 01:10:58,184
Speaker 1: I understand.

1325
01:10:58,224 --> 01:11:00,424
Speaker 2: And what if you're settled and comfortable, then you know,

1326
01:11:00,704 --> 01:11:02,983
Speaker 2: I get that if you like where you're staying, I understand.

1327
01:11:03,064 --> 01:11:07,384
Speaker 3: But but I've been feeling the Yeah, I was telling you,

1328
01:11:07,504 --> 01:11:09,864
Speaker 3: like every year for the past three years, I start

1329
01:11:09,904 --> 01:11:12,504
Speaker 3: the year like, Okay, I'm moving back to Oakland this year,

1330
01:11:13,224 --> 01:11:15,424
Speaker 3: and then Baby Reindeer happened, and so then I was

1331
01:11:15,584 --> 01:11:16,144
Speaker 3: on a two.

1332
01:11:16,144 --> 01:11:19,784
Speaker 1: Year world tour, you know, living in a hotel rooms.

1333
01:11:20,064 --> 01:11:26,104
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I do think that I now get

1334
01:11:26,184 --> 01:11:32,744
Speaker 3: to decide what happens next. So Oakland is calling and

1335
01:11:32,864 --> 01:11:35,344
Speaker 3: I I need to pick up that call.

1336
01:11:35,984 --> 01:11:36,184
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1337
01:11:36,784 --> 01:11:39,544
Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, I'm happy to be here. Welcome

1338
01:11:39,584 --> 01:11:41,944
Speaker 2: back party, You're welcome back to get a lot of people,

1339
01:11:42,024 --> 01:11:43,984
Speaker 2: but yeah, we can, you know. And also there are

1340
01:11:44,064 --> 01:11:47,984
Speaker 2: a lot you know, like there's a really strong and

1341
01:11:48,064 --> 01:11:50,424
Speaker 2: we're sort of strengthening the film community up there, so

1342
01:11:50,664 --> 01:11:52,744
Speaker 2: like so like there is like a community up there

1343
01:11:52,784 --> 01:11:54,384
Speaker 2: people like I think the more people come up to there,

1344
01:11:54,384 --> 01:11:56,784
Speaker 2: the more we can actually make things up there. You know,

1345
01:11:56,824 --> 01:11:58,464
Speaker 2: we're working on trying to make the city more friendly

1346
01:11:58,544 --> 01:12:02,184
Speaker 2: to filming with tax incentives, like you know, Sheelle Dunie's

1347
01:12:02,264 --> 01:12:05,904
Speaker 2: up there, Ryan Coogler, obviously bu Triley's got a new

1348
01:12:05,944 --> 01:12:08,464
Speaker 2: movie coming out. And ye, there's there are there are

1349
01:12:09,064 --> 01:12:10,664
Speaker 2: filmmakers up there who live there.

1350
01:12:11,264 --> 01:12:16,024
Speaker 3: I just met this writer named Shanaka and she's, oh,

1351
01:12:16,104 --> 01:12:19,744
Speaker 3: it must be I met her. I met her at

1352
01:12:19,864 --> 01:12:23,784
Speaker 3: my friend's house, so I didn't realize you get first

1353
01:12:23,784 --> 01:12:32,664
Speaker 3: and last day, but she said, she said, we just

1354
01:12:33,064 --> 01:12:35,144
Speaker 3: once we decide that it's a film town, it'll be

1355
01:12:35,184 --> 01:12:41,464
Speaker 3: a film town. Yeah, so like, yeah, we should decide,

1356
01:12:41,864 --> 01:12:42,864
Speaker 3: we should decide.

1357
01:12:42,624 --> 01:12:44,664
Speaker 2: That's we we are, yes, And I'm happy to hear

1358
01:12:44,744 --> 01:12:46,744
Speaker 2: that because yeah, there's are people we're trying to We're

1359
01:12:46,744 --> 01:12:49,024
Speaker 2: in the midst of making that decision right now, so

1360
01:12:49,104 --> 01:12:51,464
Speaker 2: I think that's for sure. Just you know, I joke

1361
01:12:51,584 --> 01:12:53,824
Speaker 2: down here, it's like it's because it's not that far,

1362
01:12:54,104 --> 01:12:56,104
Speaker 2: so you know, it's not that it's you know.

1363
01:12:56,104 --> 01:12:59,224
Speaker 1: It's yeah, but that's I love better. That's better.

1364
01:12:59,544 --> 01:13:02,944
Speaker 3: I mean, I love all love to la and all

1365
01:13:03,304 --> 01:13:03,903
Speaker 3: all places.

1366
01:13:04,304 --> 01:13:07,704
Speaker 2: I love to all places, but the highest privilege in life,

1367
01:13:07,784 --> 01:13:09,504
Speaker 2: one of them is being able to choose where you live.

1368
01:13:10,144 --> 01:13:12,704
Speaker 2: And so that is a place that works for me. Yeah,

1369
01:13:13,744 --> 01:13:18,584
Speaker 2: so I ask everyone. By the way, those shoes are amazing.

1370
01:13:20,264 --> 01:13:22,024
Speaker 3: Yeah they had to happen.

1371
01:13:22,384 --> 01:13:27,344
Speaker 1: Yeah, they had to happen. Uh too tall for those shoes.

1372
01:13:27,944 --> 01:13:29,784
Speaker 3: But they have a platform, so you could, I feel

1373
01:13:29,824 --> 01:13:32,784
Speaker 3: like you could wear them. Okay, yeah, what size are you?

1374
01:13:33,304 --> 01:13:34,744
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thirteen.

1375
01:13:35,304 --> 01:13:38,224
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, you won't fit these. Yeah, we'll get matching

1376
01:13:38,264 --> 01:13:38,944
Speaker 3: once for next time.

1377
01:13:39,024 --> 01:13:43,943
Speaker 2: Okay, ask everybody for like a shout out an organization

1378
01:13:44,104 --> 01:13:46,024
Speaker 2: or a cause, just because I think a part of

1379
01:13:46,064 --> 01:13:48,504
Speaker 2: the whole Who's with Me thing is like letting people

1380
01:13:48,584 --> 01:13:50,704
Speaker 2: know who's out there, who needs help, who can who

1381
01:13:50,824 --> 01:13:52,504
Speaker 2: you can be of service to as you talked about.

1382
01:13:52,864 --> 01:13:58,464
Speaker 3: Oh, I actually I forgot that. I just launched this

1383
01:13:58,624 --> 01:14:04,664
Speaker 3: program with level Ground that is a fellowship for emerging filmmakers.

1384
01:14:06,104 --> 01:14:10,504
Speaker 3: And so level Ground is both a production company and

1385
01:14:12,064 --> 01:14:18,624
Speaker 3: also a community organization. And so we had a film

1386
01:14:18,664 --> 01:14:21,824
Speaker 3: salon last fall where we screened three short films and

1387
01:14:22,024 --> 01:14:25,823
Speaker 3: had a Q and A and what we really noticed

1388
01:14:25,944 --> 01:14:29,784
Speaker 3: we invited mostly filmmakers, And what we noticed was that

1389
01:14:30,984 --> 01:14:35,264
Speaker 3: people just wanted to talk. People just wanted to be

1390
01:14:35,504 --> 01:14:40,504
Speaker 3: with each other. You know, it's like we're desperate for

1391
01:14:40,584 --> 01:14:44,544
Speaker 3: the third space. And I think as artists and for

1392
01:14:44,784 --> 01:14:48,064
Speaker 3: filmmakers of color and queen trans filmmakers and anybody who's

1393
01:14:49,504 --> 01:14:55,504
Speaker 3: excluded by the dominant class, it can feel so isolating.

1394
01:14:56,024 --> 01:14:58,664
Speaker 3: And so it just means a lot when we get

1395
01:14:58,744 --> 01:15:01,624
Speaker 3: to be in the same space and that that space

1396
01:15:01,784 --> 01:15:08,984
Speaker 3: is not it's not meant to be in service of

1397
01:15:09,224 --> 01:15:12,184
Speaker 3: production of anything. There's no deliverable.

1398
01:15:12,864 --> 01:15:15,024
Speaker 1: We're for seminar.

1399
01:15:15,264 --> 01:15:19,224
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a gardening space. So it's it's it's

1400
01:15:19,304 --> 01:15:23,424
Speaker 3: a nurturing space and and for planting seeds and and

1401
01:15:23,584 --> 01:15:26,984
Speaker 3: so we decided to expand and and create this program.

1402
01:15:27,144 --> 01:15:30,464
Speaker 3: So we're having three sessions over the next three months,

1403
01:15:30,504 --> 01:15:34,664
Speaker 3: and we've we've inaugurated our are our first cohort.

1404
01:15:36,464 --> 01:15:37,944
Speaker 1: Is it for particular filmmakers or.

1405
01:15:37,984 --> 01:15:42,184
Speaker 3: Is it is it it is Queer Entrance filmmakers and

1406
01:15:42,264 --> 01:15:48,024
Speaker 3: filmmakers of color. And yeah, we had our first guest already,

1407
01:15:48,224 --> 01:15:51,984
Speaker 3: Walter Thompson one this who was amazing, and it just

1408
01:15:54,064 --> 01:15:57,024
Speaker 3: it's it's it's the kind of space that we need

1409
01:15:58,144 --> 01:16:01,184
Speaker 3: because if we're gonna continue doing the work of storytelling,

1410
01:16:01,264 --> 01:16:04,264
Speaker 3: and if we're gonna continue doing the work of disrupting

1411
01:16:06,064 --> 01:16:11,544
Speaker 3: oppressive narratives about us, we need to nurture ourselves ten

1412
01:16:11,624 --> 01:16:15,744
Speaker 3: times as much. Yes, So I'm really, really, really proud

1413
01:16:15,784 --> 01:16:20,224
Speaker 3: to be working on that program with that. Level Ground.

1414
01:16:22,104 --> 01:16:23,624
Speaker 1: Is level level Ground dot Co.

1415
01:16:23,864 --> 01:16:26,344
Speaker 3: Yeah, Level Ground dot Co and I think their level

1416
01:16:26,384 --> 01:16:27,344
Speaker 3: Ground on Instagram.

1417
01:16:27,504 --> 01:16:30,304
Speaker 1: Okay, and this is an organization you're part of or I.

1418
01:16:30,424 --> 01:16:34,744
Speaker 3: Just partnered with them for this program. Yeah. And also always, always,

1419
01:16:34,824 --> 01:16:38,384
Speaker 3: always the Trans Latina Coalition is out here the largest

1420
01:16:38,584 --> 01:16:44,584
Speaker 3: translated organization in the United States, uh, founded and led

1421
01:16:44,624 --> 01:16:49,184
Speaker 3: by bumb beside though, they are doing incredible work to

1422
01:16:49,784 --> 01:16:55,584
Speaker 3: keep all of our people uplifted and and charging towards

1423
01:16:55,624 --> 01:17:01,144
Speaker 3: the future. That and refusing to bow down it has

1424
01:17:01,224 --> 01:17:05,104
Speaker 3: been it has been such an inspiration seeing them so refusing. Yeah,

1425
01:17:05,864 --> 01:17:12,224
Speaker 3: Coalition and their website, I believe also is Translating Coalition

1426
01:17:14,384 --> 01:17:16,784
Speaker 3: that one might be done that, but I think yeah

1427
01:17:16,904 --> 01:17:20,424
Speaker 3: dot com and their Instagram is also Translatina Coalition.

1428
01:17:21,224 --> 01:17:23,264
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I'm waiting for him. It looks he's

1429
01:17:23,264 --> 01:17:23,664
Speaker 1: looking it up.

1430
01:17:23,664 --> 01:17:27,824
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we're getting confirmation Okay, yes, I knew it

1431
01:17:27,944 --> 01:17:30,584
Speaker 3: was yeah, yeah, Coalition dot org.

1432
01:17:30,864 --> 01:17:33,424
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, my last question, are you with me?

1433
01:17:34,384 --> 01:17:39,264
Speaker 3: I'm with you? Okay, thank you, Oh my god, thank

1434
01:17:39,304 --> 01:17:39,944
Speaker 3: you so much.

1435
01:17:40,104 --> 01:17:41,984
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so happy. Thank you for saying yes, so

1436
01:17:42,064 --> 01:17:43,384
Speaker 1: happy you did this. I appreciate it.

1437
01:17:43,504 --> 01:17:44,624
Speaker 3: Yes, this is so special.

1438
01:17:47,224 --> 01:17:49,544
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Who's with Me? Shout out

1439
01:17:49,584 --> 01:17:52,264
Speaker 2: to Nava Mau. That was a great conversation. I look

1440
01:17:52,304 --> 01:17:54,544
Speaker 2: forward to having her again. I'd also love to collaborate

1441
01:17:54,544 --> 01:17:57,064
Speaker 2: with her on anything. All of us out here being

1442
01:17:57,104 --> 01:17:59,504
Speaker 2: pushed out of show business need to come together. Check

1443
01:17:59,584 --> 01:18:02,424
Speaker 2: out her short film All the Words but the One

1444
01:18:02,984 --> 01:18:06,264
Speaker 2: at All the Words film dot com. Also follow Nava

1445
01:18:06,464 --> 01:18:09,184
Speaker 2: on any sort of social media place that's You're on

1446
01:18:09,224 --> 01:18:12,624
Speaker 2: Instagram all the time. And also thanks to Rabbidgren Productions,

1447
01:18:13,024 --> 01:18:16,944
Speaker 2: Thanks to Pushkin Industries. Thanks to Justin Richmond, who corrected

1448
01:18:17,024 --> 01:18:21,424
Speaker 2: me about the fact that Pushkin's podcast is broken record,

1449
01:18:21,464 --> 01:18:23,224
Speaker 2: not on the record or off director whatever I said

1450
01:18:23,304 --> 01:18:29,064
Speaker 2: last time. Next week, our guest is Robert Reich. Yes,

1451
01:18:29,224 --> 01:18:31,384
Speaker 2: Robert Reich, who is a friend of mine. He's an

1452
01:18:31,424 --> 01:18:34,784
Speaker 2: economist and he keeps it real at his big old

1453
01:18:34,824 --> 01:18:37,424
Speaker 2: age of seventy nine, big on social media, even at

1454
01:18:37,424 --> 01:18:40,344
Speaker 2: the big old age of seventy nine. Lovely gentlemen looking

1455
01:18:40,384 --> 01:18:42,704
Speaker 2: forward to at leasting that episode next week, that after

1456
01:18:42,784 --> 01:18:44,704
Speaker 2: Pride Month. Shout out to all the people out there

1457
01:18:44,784 --> 01:18:47,024
Speaker 2: being loud and proud, and also all the people out

1458
01:18:47,064 --> 01:18:49,264
Speaker 2: there who are quietly being proud because they can't be

1459
01:18:49,384 --> 01:18:51,424
Speaker 2: loud where they are. I see you, I'm with you,

1460
01:18:51,944 --> 01:18:54,863
Speaker 2: See you next week. Hey, thanks for watching an episode

1461
01:18:54,864 --> 01:18:57,344
Speaker 2: of Who's with Me. If you're on YouTube, please like

1462
01:18:57,504 --> 01:18:59,944
Speaker 2: and subscribe, share, hit that hype button.

1463
01:19:00,144 --> 01:19:03,344
Speaker 1: I hear it makes all the difference. Please like, subscribe, share,

1464
01:19:03,584 --> 01:19:04,864
Speaker 1: hit the hype button. Thank you,