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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josh. For this week's Select I've

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Speaker 1: chosen our July twenty twenty episode on robber Barons. It

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Speaker 1: turns out that today's billionaires and leaders of industry bears

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Speaker 1: some resemblance to the robber barons of the Gilded Age,

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Speaker 1: but there are some big differences. Namely, today's billionaires are

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Speaker 1: kind of terrible at philanthropy, and the robber barons of

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Speaker 1: the last century were far less preoccupied with outer space.

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Speaker 1: Hope you enjoyed this episode. It's a pretty good one.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuckers Bryant over there. Jerry was just here

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Speaker 1: doing the COVID setup and then got out of the

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Speaker 1: room really quick.

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Speaker 3: Hell their breath for five straight minutes.

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Speaker 4: It's a new record. It really is a new studio.

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Speaker 1: Sure, and this is stuff you should know. That's no

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Speaker 1: David Blaine record, by the way.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean that's her studio record. You should see

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Speaker 2: her when she's pearl diving, though.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be something if Jerry did have a secret

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Speaker 1: life pearl diving that would be amazing. It would, but

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about Jerry Chuck enough about her. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I propose that we have a nice, pleasant conversation about

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Speaker 1: robber barons.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an interesting topic because depending on who

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Speaker 2: you ask, the robber barons were either the greatest thing

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Speaker 2: to ever happen to this country, right or one of

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Speaker 2: the worst things to ever happen to this country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And at first, from what I could tell, historians,

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Speaker 1: like immediately after in the like a few decades after

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Speaker 1: the Gilded Age, which we'll talk about, where the you know,

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Speaker 1: the age the robber barons worked and operated and lived in,

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Speaker 1: really took it to be like their their presence, their

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Speaker 1: existence was one of the worst things ever. But over time,

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Speaker 1: there's kind of been a reformation of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of like a revisiting of them that has tried

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Speaker 1: to revive their image or actually make their image possibly

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Speaker 1: better than it ever has been.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it kind of.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of this has to probably depends

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Speaker 2: on what you feel about, you know, capitalism to this

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Speaker 2: extent where kind of doesn't matter how you make your

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Speaker 2: money if it's sort of underhanded and you sort of

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Speaker 2: undercut competitors and monopolize things. That's all just free trade man,

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Speaker 2: free capitalism, and that's how it works out. And then

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Speaker 2: those guys a ton of gave a ton of money

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Speaker 2: to society before they died, and so they that's that's

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Speaker 2: all the injustifies the means.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually, yeah, that's the conservative way to look

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Speaker 1: at it. And I ran across something I can't remember

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Speaker 1: what's called, but it's basically, oh, human imperfection. Did you

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Speaker 1: know that the idea that humans are imperfect and there's

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Speaker 1: really no reason to try to make a perfect society

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Speaker 1: because it will always be imperfect and in ruin that

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Speaker 1: that is a cornerstone, a hallmark of conservatism.

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Speaker 3: Did you know that?

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Speaker 2: I didn't, But I mean, of course you can't make

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Speaker 2: a perfect society.

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Speaker 4: It makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Well, so conservatives are saying that in opposition to all

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Speaker 1: of the liberal efforts to make a perfect society, to

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Speaker 1: have government regulation that says no, no, we should all

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Speaker 1: have clean water, and we should do it at the

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Speaker 1: expense of making corporations clean up the waste water before

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Speaker 1: they release their waste into the shared common water resources.

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Speaker 1: Things like that, right, And that there's this idea that

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Speaker 1: you can mold society into some perfect form, that that's

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Speaker 1: the opposite of human imperfection, that that's like what liberals think,

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Speaker 1: and that that is that right there is one of

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Speaker 1: the main dividing lines between conservative and liberal. I've been

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Speaker 1: on the planet for almost forty four years now, and

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that it was just that simple,

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Speaker 1: and it really kind of is.

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Speaker 2: I think the word perfect is what's a stumbling block

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Speaker 2: for me, because I don't know a single liberal thinks

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Speaker 2: that they can make things perfect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the goal is to make things better. Yeah, yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it's it's a great word either,

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Speaker 1: but i'd think that that's you know, I mean, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna argue with the Stanford Encyclopedia philosophy, I'm not.

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Speaker 4: I'll bring it on, man, I'll punch that thing right

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Speaker 4: in the face.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Stanford, did you know that Stanford University was

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Speaker 1: named out verbarranded.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a robber baron named Leland Stanford.

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, a lot of universities are named after Robert barons.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems with some of the early

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Speaker 1: histories of universities, as we'll find out in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 4: So we should get into the Gilded Age.

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Speaker 2: We should hop in the old wayback machine, because that's

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Speaker 2: the age that we're talking about. And when you hear

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Speaker 2: gilded age, it might sound really great, because I mean,

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Speaker 2: what's better than a gilded I don't know, toilet.

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Speaker 3: Gilded Lily?

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Speaker 1: Isn't that another one that another thing people guild?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty good band name though, Gilded Lily, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like a nineties power pop.

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Speaker 1: Oh, totally, you nailed it. And I said, what about breakfast?

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Speaker 1: Said Tiffany's.

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Speaker 4: But the Gilded Age is.

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Speaker 2: And Dave Ruz helped us put this together, and he

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Speaker 2: points out it's not a term of endearment.

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Speaker 4: When something is gilded.

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Speaker 2: That means it's it's got a thin coating of gold,

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Speaker 2: but underneath it's you know, it could be a gilded turd.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I hate that word so much.

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Speaker 4: I love it. It's so great, do you? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean I hate I love it and how awful

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Speaker 4: it is?

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Speaker 3: Oh gotcha?

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Speaker 1: But I think it's so awful it like comes out

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Speaker 1: on the other side as just plain old awful to me. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's the idea of the Gilded Age that

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Speaker 1: it looked great on the outside, but on the inside

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Speaker 1: it wasn't so great. And what it was this So

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Speaker 1: this was the second half of the nineteenth century, basically

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Speaker 1: from pretty much the end of the Civil War up

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Speaker 1: until the first decade of the twentieth century, yea. And

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Speaker 1: it was characterized by a huge, massive shift in the

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Speaker 1: American economy where I saw somewhere that at some point

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen sixties to some point in the early

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighties, in about fifteen years, the American economy doubled

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Speaker 1: doubled inside in fifteen years. That's how massive it was,

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Speaker 1: and that's how fast it happened.

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Speaker 3: And what it was was.

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Speaker 1: A transition from an agrarian society to an industrial society.

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Speaker 1: And it happened virtually over night as far as history goes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was because it happened so quickly, and

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Speaker 2: because it was such growth, I think the government was like,

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Speaker 2: we're going to stay out of this and kind of.

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Speaker 4: Just let your dudes do what you're going to do,

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Speaker 4: no regulation.

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Speaker 2: You can be as competitive as you want to be,

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Speaker 2: and you can satisfy a scratch every capitalist itch you want,

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Speaker 2: and we're just going to let that happen because we're

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Speaker 2: also kind of getting rich on the side.

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Speaker 1: Right, So that kind of raises something that I saw

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Speaker 1: is that the idea that it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: myth of the lase fair government during this era. They

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Speaker 1: were definitely lase fair when it comes to regulation and

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Speaker 1: letting corporatists run rough shot over labor. But they were

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Speaker 1: anything butt hands off when it came to corporate welfare

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Speaker 1: and political entrepreneurship and helping out the wealthy class at

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Speaker 1: the expense of the people in general. So in one hand,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, they were lase fair, on the other

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Speaker 1: they were not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what we're talking about here is stuff like

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Speaker 2: snatching up resources where you could hoarding them for yourself,

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Speaker 2: like building such a massive business that you could drive

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Speaker 2: out every other smaller business, drive them right out of

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Speaker 2: business by undercutting their prices. Jobs were more scarce, so

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Speaker 2: you could have people work harder for less and less wages.

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Speaker 3: That kind of thing, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And what's crazy, Like it was a dog eat dog economy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just nuts how it happened.

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Speaker 1: And there was a lot of like learning on the fly,

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Speaker 1: and the learning curve was extremely steep because I mean

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Speaker 1: This was just basically a country of farmers who had been,

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Speaker 1: you know, looked down upon by Europe for a century

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Speaker 1: or more, and they all of a sudden were captains

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Speaker 1: of industry, and the most ruthless among them were the

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Speaker 1: ones that rose to the top, because, like you're saying,

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Speaker 1: there was no rules, there was no regulation, there weren't

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Speaker 1: any standards of business. They were all figuring it out

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Speaker 1: as they were going along, and they went immediately to

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Speaker 1: the worst impulses that capitalism can raise in a person

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Speaker 1: when you're in pursuit of as much possible wealth as

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Speaker 1: you can get, and there's plenty of it to be had.

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Speaker 1: And then, like you're saying, not only did the federal

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Speaker 1: government not get involved, they weren't equipped to get involved

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Speaker 1: because at that point, most of the government was focused

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Speaker 1: on local stuff. And now, all of a sudden, as

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Speaker 1: the United States is truly becoming a continent wide nation,

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Speaker 1: the federal government is kind of lagging behind to catch up,

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Speaker 1: and wouldn't really begin to catch up in the progressive era.

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Speaker 1: And some would say that the pendulum swung the exact

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Speaker 1: opposite way to the exact opposite extreme direction that it

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Speaker 1: had during the Gilded age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, let's talk about the Gilded Age and

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Speaker 2: the I guess just you owe it all to train really,

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Speaker 2: and trains you owed to steel, so you got to

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Speaker 2: go back a little bit. Steel was a very big

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Speaker 2: deal in that when they found out mister Henry Bessemer

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Speaker 2: in the eighteen fifties found out how to make steel

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Speaker 2: like a lot cheaper. He got a new process going

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Speaker 2: where it was just like a making vast amounts of

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Speaker 2: steel for a fraction at the cost and speed, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you could open up those local

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Speaker 2: rail lines to stretch across the country and all these

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Speaker 2: regional specialty businesses and industries, whether it was you know,

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Speaker 2: Cincinnati was known for furniture, and obviously in places like

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Speaker 2: Wyoming you had coal, and you had copper, and Montana

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Speaker 2: and you had a lot of timber and Oregon. You

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Speaker 2: could get that stuff anywhere you wanted to go, and

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Speaker 2: that changed everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not only could you get it to where you

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Speaker 1: wanted to go, you could do it exponentially cheaper than

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Speaker 1: it used to be over land or say using canals,

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Speaker 1: and then also way faster too. So now if you

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Speaker 1: were making like really great armchairs in Cincinnati, like you

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Speaker 1: were saying, like, not only did you have the town

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Speaker 1: that they're just known for it, that's their mascot, I

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Speaker 1: believe of the baseball team.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, citters right.

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Speaker 1: Not only did you have the town of Cincinnati and

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Speaker 1: maybe some other regional parts of Ohio as your market,

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Speaker 1: you know how the entire country to supply with chairs.

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Speaker 1: And that happened at a really great time, the steel

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Speaker 1: coming along and building the railroads, because the United States

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Speaker 1: economic engine was kind of idling a really high rpm

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Speaker 1: for a little while before this. Apparently the War of

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Speaker 1: eighteen twelve caused the United States to kind of stop

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Speaker 1: relying on Europe and turn inward and become much more

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Speaker 1: self reliant than it had been before. So it started

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Speaker 1: to exploit more industry and resources rather than rely on

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Speaker 1: imports from Europe.

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Speaker 3: That was a big one.

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Speaker 1: And then the Civil War had it brought a lot

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Speaker 1: of factories online in the North that hadn't been there before.

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Speaker 1: And so when the Civil War ended, these factories were

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Speaker 1: all ready to go, and with the abundance of plentiful steel,

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Speaker 1: that engine got put into gear and it just kind

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Speaker 1: of took off like a rocket.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When I was reading this and I tried to find out,

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Speaker 2: but I couldn't really get a firm hold. I wondered

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Speaker 2: if back then, when this started to happen, you know

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Speaker 2: how people rail against the global trade and the globalization.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if people railed against nationalization of commerce back then,

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Speaker 2: or if they all just thought it was all great.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: No, But one of the things I read about that's

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Speaker 1: actually a mark in favor of the Gilded Age being

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Speaker 1: actually a good thing for America is that people everyday

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Speaker 1: people were super involved in politics, in the political process

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Speaker 1: and agitating for what they wanted. And so if there

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Speaker 1: were people who were definitely in favor of this kind

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Speaker 1: of just taking off like a rocket, knitting the country together,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, nationalization, then there was definitely opposition

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Speaker 1: parties to that too. I figure who saw the problems

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Speaker 1: with it. But the cool thing is is that everybody

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Speaker 1: was involved in Everybody was like like like they cared

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Speaker 1: about the direction the country was going, rather than just

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Speaker 1: sitting back and being like, well, nothing we can do

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 2: I wonder though, if it was like if there were business,

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Speaker 2: like if they were furniture makers in Cincinnati going, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to sell my chairs out there, that.

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Speaker 3: Is not what they said, like in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 4: Is that not a Cincinnati accident?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I might be thinking of Maine. Yeah right, But

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Speaker 2: I wonder if I wonder who was opposing it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I haven't seen that one.

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Speaker 1: Some of the things that I saw where one of

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Speaker 1: the big fights was over currency and whether it should

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Speaker 1: remain on the gold standard or whether it should be

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Speaker 1: easy money, which, of course the so the farmers wanted.

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Speaker 3: I think they wanted easy money. I can't remember who wanted.

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Speaker 1: To stay on the gold standard and others wanted, you know, basically,

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Speaker 1: to leave the gold standard and make money a lot

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Speaker 1: more easy to come by.

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Speaker 4: The runny Dangerfield movie.

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Speaker 1: That was an easy easy money. Man, That is a

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Speaker 1: tawdry movie, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah? It was good though.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Hey, even the worst Dangerfield movies are still pretty great. Agreed,

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Speaker 1: And on that point, real quick, I'm sorry. I know

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Speaker 1: we don't like to go off on tangents very often,

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Speaker 1: but I have been watching Happy Days and surely.

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Speaker 4: Lately, man, that is some comfort food, isn't it, Dude?

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Speaker 3: They are?

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Speaker 1: But not only that, it's not like junk food though,

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Speaker 1: they're like, well, written, well acted, sure, well directed TV shows.

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Speaker 1: Like really, it's not at all like throwaway or disposable.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't rely on slick special effects or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: It's just good stuff.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, since we're on this tangent, we

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Speaker 2: should tell everyone that we're writing a book and it's coming.

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Speaker 3: Out this fall. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's called Stuff you Should Know, an incomplete compendium of

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Speaker 2: mostly interesting things. And you can pre order it now

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Speaker 2: if you want a special Tustin poster.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you pre order it and you can go and

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Speaker 1: upload your receipt at stuff you should Read books dot

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Speaker 1: com and then there's like a little thing that says

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Speaker 1: like get your pre order gift and you upload a

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Speaker 1: picture of your receipt and they mail it to you

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Speaker 1: and you will be very happy with it because it's

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Speaker 1: pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we want to sell We do want to

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Speaker 2: sell these books out there. We want to sell these

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Speaker 2: books all over the world.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we're glad that the railroad exists so we can

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Speaker 1: move these books around easily.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, you ain't kidding ship these things to Cincinnata, right,

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Speaker 2: So where were we? So we were shipping things. Regional

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Speaker 2: businesses were becoming national businesses. People were leaving the farms,

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Speaker 2: they were leaving small towns, they were going to the

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Speaker 2: big city. Immigrants were pouring in from Europe, African Americans

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Speaker 2: were going north because reconstruction didn't work out so well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was that abandoned.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, Have we done one on reconstruction?

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Speaker 1: No, No, we really need to though, totally. I mean

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Speaker 1: the more I've been I've been reading a lot about

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Speaker 1: that that period in history, and yes, we need to

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Speaker 1: definitely do one on that.

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Speaker 2: But the point is there are a lot of people

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Speaker 2: flocking to work. This what was called the Second Industrial Revolution,

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Speaker 2: where we saw over a period of about forty years,

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Speaker 2: factory output went from one point nine billion to thirteen

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Speaker 2: billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean like this happened like almost overnight. It's

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Speaker 1: astounding how fast this happened. I don't think it even

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Speaker 1: happened this fast in the First Industrial Revolution, you know,

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Speaker 1: the one that started over in Manchester. Like I think

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Speaker 1: that it's this is nothing like this has ever happened

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Speaker 1: in the.

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Speaker 3: History of the world. As far as I know, I

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Speaker 3: believe it.

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Speaker 1: So oh sure, I was just getting reped up. My

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Speaker 1: own economic engines idling high.

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Speaker 2: Right now, Well, take your foot off the gas, okay,

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Speaker 2: and let's take a little break and we'll talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about Mark Twain and what these a few

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Speaker 2: economic stats of the day right after this.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back, Charles. I'm feeling much better now

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Speaker 1: that my foot's off the gas. That was just good advice.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mentioned Mark Twain.

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Speaker 2: And the only reason we're going to talk about Mark

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Speaker 2: Twain for a moment is because in eighteen seventy three

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Speaker 2: he co wrote a novel, a satire called The Gilded

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Speaker 2: Age Colon a Tale of Today, where it followed a

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Speaker 2: poor country farmer who is sort of I mean, does

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Speaker 2: he move to the city trying to get in on

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Speaker 2: the Second Industrial Revolution?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: It's exactly that kind of migration that you were talking

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Speaker 1: about just a few minutes ago.

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Speaker 4: And it didn't work out so well. Right.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I've never read the book, but from what I can tell, no,

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Speaker 1: it didn't work out very well because he has taken

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Speaker 1: advantage of by all manner of bad people like crooked

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Speaker 1: politicians and crooked businessmen, and is basically run through the

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Speaker 1: ringer from what I can tell. But I've also seen

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Speaker 1: that that wasn't It wasn't exactly the best piece of

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Speaker 1: writing Mark Twain's ever come up with. But the thing

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Speaker 1: is that he releases in eighteen seventy three. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: this is like at the very beginning of the Guilded Age,

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Speaker 1: So he saw it pretty quickly what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And what he saw was this emergence from a relatively

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Speaker 1: egalitarian society of a group of old, mind bogglingly wealthy

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Speaker 1: people that just rose up from the United States and

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Speaker 1: through you know, cheating and business acumen and taking advantage

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Speaker 1: of people and overworking people and underpaying people, but also

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Speaker 1: like having a lot of vision and foresight, all these

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Speaker 1: things coming together grab control of almost all of the

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Speaker 1: wealth that was being produced by the average American, and

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Speaker 1: all of the average Americans put together, who had moved

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Speaker 1: to these cities for the promise of better wages, better

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Speaker 1: living than the farm could offer. Some people were exploiting

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Speaker 1: that more than other people, and those people came to

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Speaker 1: be known as the robber barons, and they were the

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Speaker 1: lynchpin of why people think of the Gilded Age as

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Speaker 1: a rotten part of American history.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, here's some stats for you. In eighteen ninety the

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Speaker 2: top one. And this they should all sound very familiar

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Speaker 2: if you're alive in breathing oxygen today. Right, But in

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Speaker 2: eighteen ninety the top one percent of the US owned

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Speaker 2: fifty one percent.

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Speaker 4: Of all wealth. Yeah, dude, more than half of all wealth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in that nuts, it is nuts, But you're right,

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Speaker 1: it does sound very familiar.

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Speaker 2: The top twelve percent owned eighty six percent of all wealth,

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Speaker 2: and the lower forty four percent of the US population,

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Speaker 2: which was about half the population, owned one point two percent.

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Speaker 3: And here's that's even more nuts.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean all these just top one another. I

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Speaker 4: think here's the last one.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen ninety seven, the richest four thousand families. That

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Speaker 2: sounds like a lot of people, but that's less than

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Speaker 2: one percent of the population. The richest four thousand had

390
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Speaker 2: as much wealth as the other eleven point six million

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Speaker 2: families combined.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how about that?

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Speaker 1: So that is what you would call economic inequality, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think the thing is is especially over time.

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Speaker 1: But I get the impression during that age too, like

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Speaker 1: the people who resem that liberals typically tend to be

397
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Speaker 1: painted with this brush that says you're just jealous. You've

398
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Speaker 1: never made that much money in your life, you probably

399
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Speaker 1: never will and it sickens you to see somebody else with.

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Speaker 3: That money because you don't have it.

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Speaker 1: And it's that second part, that last part about it,

402
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Speaker 1: because you don't have it, that I think misses the mark.

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Speaker 1: And that even at the time, during the gill Gilded Age, today,

404
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 1: when people look at it, inequality that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them, I'm sure there are people out

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Speaker 1: there who are just jealous and haters for that reason,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of them say no, no, like that,

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Speaker 1: that level, that amount of disparity shouldn't exist, where if

409
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Speaker 1: there are people who are just genuinely suffering, who are

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Speaker 1: just poor and aren't able to make it with whatever

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Speaker 1: living they're making, if they exist, then you shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: people who have that much amount of money. And that

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Speaker 1: was a sentiment in the Gilding Gilded Age as much too.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like they didn't realize this was going on

415
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: at the time. The sentiment was very much like it

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Speaker 1: is today, except in the Gilded Age they did things

417
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Speaker 1: like form labor unions and strike and just basically did

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Speaker 1: something about it. They didn't take it laying down, which

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Speaker 1: is actually criticism that's levied or has been levied in

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Speaker 1: the past against people today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there's also a notion that the

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00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: more left leaning people or anti success, and that's that's

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00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 2: not true either. It's well, that's all I'm going to

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Speaker 2: say about that. That's just not true. It's just not true.

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Speaker 2: They're not said, they're not anti success. And I don't

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Speaker 2: think that every conservative thinks like, yeah, man, like it's

427
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: all fair and you should be able to do whatever

428
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Speaker 2: you want to get ahead and stomp on any one's

429
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Speaker 2: head that you want to get there, right. I think

430
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Speaker 2: these are just broad brush things that keep the country divided.

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00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I think that the Yeah, I think both

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00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: sides misunderstand each other. Conservatives and liberals misunderstand each other

433
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Speaker 1: to a debilitating degree these days.

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Speaker 4: Agreed.

435
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Speaker 2: So let's get off that and let's go back to

436
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 2: the original the og robber barons, who were not to

437
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 2: these guys. I'm talking about the term robber baron, which

438
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: didn't happen in the nineteenth century US for the first time.

439
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: It happened thousands of years ago in Europe.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about thousands of years, but thousands pretty

441
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Speaker 3: close to pretty close.

442
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: To eighth out. I'll give you that one. So apparently

443
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: along the Rhyan River, if you wanted to move goods

444
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: up and down northern Europe like, that was your your

445
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: way to go. But unfortunately for you, there were places

446
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: where the Ryan River like really narrowed with high cliffs,

447
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: and you were easy prey for local nobility who wanted

448
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: to like set up toll booth basically and said you

449
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: need to give me some money if you want to

450
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: keep going, implying your goods along the Rhine.

451
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you had You couldn't just portage your steamship

452
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: up a mountain and over a mountain.

453
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 4: You had to pay the piper.

454
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: Plus they didn't exist at the time.

455
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 4: What steamships? When did those come around?

456
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: The early nineteenth century?

457
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: You have a much better just general world timeline that

458
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 2: lives in your brain than I do.

459
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: Well.

460
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: I understand history perfectly and without any air delusions or

461
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: any of my opinions informing my vision of history as well.

462
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 4: I think that's what you're known for sure.

463
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: Uh wait, wait were you joking? Oh no, okay, good.

464
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: I just always get the time periods confused, So I

465
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: rely on books and research like a big dumb dumb

466
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: so so do I?

467
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, but then you keep it in your brain.

468
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: Mine just floats out like yous cartoons with birds flying

469
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: around people's head when they get knocked out.

470
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 3: Chuck.

471
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: I've seen every cartoon that ever existed, and I remember

472
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: each of them perfectly without any of my opinions coloring

473
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: my view of them.

474
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: Those birds are always above my head. I don't have

475
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: to get hit with an anvil or a piano. So

476
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: the Ryan Gorge was one of those really narrow straits.

477
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: In twelve fifty, Emperor Frederick the Third died, there was

478
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: no successor, and basically that meant no regulation. And believe

479
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 2: it or not, even way back then, a lack of

480
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 2: regulation meant that people would take advantage of that.

481
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 4: It's crazy, same as it is today, and.

482
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 3: It's almost like people are imperfect.

483
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: Almost, And so these thieves would move into that gorge,

484
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: jam up those tolls, maybe just steal stuff if they

485
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: wanted to as well, and they were named the robber barons.

486
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 4: That's where that term came from.

487
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: Those people, yeah, because they actually were like low level

488
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: nobility and they already were well off, but that didn't

489
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: prevent them from, you know, trying to take advantage of

490
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: the merchant class who were just trying to make their

491
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: way and make a living. That's right, and that became

492
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: like a really great description for some of the most

493
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: successful business tycoons of the nineteenth century. I think it

494
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: first popped up in an Atlantic article in eighteen seventy, Yeah,

495
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: where it didn't directly say that, it didn't say that

496
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: these guys are the new robber barons, but it's said

497
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: that the old robber barons of the Rhine Valley were

498
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: actually probably more honest than the new aristocracy of swindling millionaires.

499
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: So that's a big, big time burn. So even in

500
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy, people were saying, like, this is wrong, there's

501
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: something like really wrong here. I mean, this is within

502
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: just a few years of the Gilded Age really starting

503
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: to take off, and people had already identified that there

504
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: were some major issues developing.

505
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so weird to look at this stuff and

506
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: just how apt it applies to what's going on today.

507
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: And we think, I think some people think that these

508
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: are all new problems and new issues, but it's as

509
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: old as time, you know.

510
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so weird.

511
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: It is a little weird to to it's it is weird.

512
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: What's even weirder though, is like I believe if we

513
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: if we look back, if we zoom out far enough,

514
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: we see humanity kind of ever going upward, even though

515
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: there's like peaks and valleys in the line.

516
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: In the line overall is.

517
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: Kind of up moves upward towards something great, I think.

518
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 4: But toward perfection.

519
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't Maybe I wasn't alive ten thousand years ago,

520
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: So who knows. Maybe that was the pinnacle of human existence.

521
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: I don't know.

522
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 2: Maybe, So should we can say, should we talk about

523
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: a few of these dudes?

524
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we I feel like we have kind of

525
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: set this up that the Robert Barons were ruthless business tycoons,

526
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: and we're going to start with one of the first ones,

527
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, who, for my money was the og

528
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: robber Baron.

529
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Commodore is a nickname that and as you

530
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 2: will see he later, Vanderbilt University is named for him,

531
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: and their mascot is the Commodores because of him. And

532
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: a commodore is a naval officer sort of above not

533
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: quite an admiral, but above a captain.

534
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 4: I think they command a fleet.

535
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: Oh well, that's actually pretty appropriate because he did command

536
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: a fleet of ships, originally sailboats, originally a sailboat I

537
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: think when he was fourteen, and then steamships to ferry

538
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: people around New York. I thoughts there were by this time,

539
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: and you know, you know what's ironic, We were talking

540
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: about steamships and when they were invented the guy who

541
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: invented steam, Robert Fulton. Remember we did a whole episode

542
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: on steam technology. H Yeah, he had a thirty year

543
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: monopoly in New York to ferry people using steamships, and ironically,

544
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: Cornelius Vanderbilt had to overcome that monopoly using ingenuity and

545
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: his own resourcefulness and eventually was successful in breaking that

546
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: monopoly just through good business tactics that actually resulted in

547
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: far lower fares for everyday people and companies. I think

548
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: just at his first try, by improving the size of

549
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: the steam engine and using cheaper anthracite coal, he managed

550
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: to drop the average ferry price from like seven dollars

551
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: to three dollars in his first try.

552
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: That's amazing.

553
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that's really kind of like instructive though,

554
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: man Like think about it. You think of this guy

555
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: as like a ruthless robber baron, and in many many

556
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: ways he was, as we'll see, but he was able

557
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: to get to that position by outwitting and outsmarting other

558
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: robber barons. And that was the climate at the time.

559
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 1: It's so easy to sit back from this time and

560
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: just be like, just judge, judge Hutch and it's actually

561
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: kind of fun too, it's a great pastime. But you

562
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: also have to remember at the time that that was

563
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: the business climate.

564
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: That's just what it was.

565
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: And if you weren't willing to do that, well, then

566
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: you were not going to make it in business. Which

567
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: is fine, Like maybe you'd say this is too cutthroat

568
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: for me. I'm just going to sell out to these guys,

569
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that. But the ones who

570
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: were left standing are the ones that you know, history

571
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: still remembers, for better or for worse.

572
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's worth pointing out. And as we'll do

573
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: with I think we're going over four of these guys.

574
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: But some had money born into it, some started out

575
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: very poor. And Cornelius Vanderbilt, even though that sounds like

576
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: such a rich, hoity toity name, now, he was born

577
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: very poor. He was born in seventeen ninety four in

578
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: a farming family on Statine Island and quit school when

579
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: he was eleven, and that's when he started working on

580
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: the boat docks. And he was literally a self made man,

581
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: starting with that first little ferry boat that you mentioned

582
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: at age fourteen. He was a big dude, and he

583
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: was very savvy, but also very ruthless. And this is

584
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: something that you'll see with a lot of these men,

585
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: was a competition and a competitive edge and nature. That

586
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: was sort of the underlying thing with all of them.

587
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: I think that I watched There Will Be Blood recently

588
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: for movie Crush and Daniel Plainview was very much based

589
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: on some of these robber barons, and that he has

590
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: that great, great classic line from that movie when he goes,

591
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: I have a competition in me. I want no one

592
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: else to succeed, and that just crystallizes that character. And

593
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: I think a lot of these guys it wasn't enough

594
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: to just get rich. They wanted to devastate the competition, right.

595
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: So it makes you wonder, is that just a normal

596
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: There's just at any given time there's a you know,

597
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: a handful or a multiplicity of people who are like that.

598
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: It's just that these guys happened to be living in

599
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: a time where they had the freedom and ability to

600
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: exercise that to their to their greatest ability.

601
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 3: Or was it that these guys shaped.

602
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: The business world because they all happened to be alive

603
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: at the same time.

604
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: I don't know.

605
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,959
Speaker 2: I wonder it's it's interesting though, that it's that competition

606
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: and again with the plane, to you, not just a

607
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: competition to succeed, but a comp competition to see that

608
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: others don't.

609
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 3: Right, So, did you talk about the railroad?

610
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 4: Did?

611
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 3: I didn't catch it.

612
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: No, So you know he started off in the steam uh, steamboats.

613
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: But if you know Vanderbilt, you know he was a

614
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: railroad guy. And if you look at the list of

615
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: robber barons, I'd say easily like a third of them

616
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 2: were railroad men.

617
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, because because there was so much money to be

618
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: made from the railroads. It was just like printing your

619
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: own money. And one of the reasons why was because

620
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: there's so much stuff being shipped over the railroads that

621
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: if you own the railroad, you got a cut of

622
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: every single industry because every single industry basically had to

623
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: use your form of transportation. That's why they all got

624
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: into it. Plus it was wide open, like there was

625
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: so much open space and so much room for expansion

626
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: that it was a good time to get rich off

627
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: of the railroad for sure.

628
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: So his first railroad ride was at thirty nine years old.

629
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: He wasn't like in his twenties and early thirties getting

630
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: into the railroad business. He wasn't even on a train

631
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: until it was almost forty and that train crashed an

632
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: axle broke and went down an embankment and he punctured along,

633
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 2: broke some bones, and I guess was lying there wheezing

634
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: out of a hole in his lung saying, this is

635
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: the future. That was so great, And he got into railroads.

636
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: It's crazy, like a year later.

637
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did.

638
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: And one of the things that he had a really

639
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: great talent for was identifying like loser railroads, seemingly loser railroads,

640
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: and figuring out ways that they actually had been overlooked.

641
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

642
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: And a really good example of that is the Harlem Railroad,

643
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: which was just a short little line that other railroads,

644
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: larger railroads used to connect to New York City, but

645
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt recognized that it was the only line that went

646
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: all the way into the heart of Manhattan. And so

647
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: he bought that up, and he also, at the same

648
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: time not only got control of that little railroad. This

649
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: is a really early chance for him to show how

650
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: good he was at driving up stock prices. So when

651
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: he came along and bought the Harlem Railroad, or started

652
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: buying shares of the Harlem Railroad, it was worth in

653
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: today's money, one hundred and sixty eight dollars a share,

654
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: not too shabby, but from what I could tell at

655
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: the time, not very great at all. By the time

656
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: he was done cornering this stock, he had driven the

657
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: shares up to fifty nine hundred and ninety eight dollars

658
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: in just a few years. And so in doing so,

659
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: not only did he make a ton of money for himself,

660
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: he also developed this reputation that made owners of other

661
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: railroads say, I own a bunch of shares in my railroad.

662
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 1: You want to come buy mine and drive my stock

663
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: price off and then buy me out. And so eventually

664
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: he didn't even have to plunder other companies. They came

665
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: to him and just said, here, buddy, bias please.

666
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 4: They were Blue Star Airlines.

667
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 3: What is that? Remember that from that from there will

668
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 3: be blood.

669
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 4: There were no airlines and there will be blood.

670
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: No remember Wall Street, that was the one that Martin

671
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: Sheen worked for. Yeah, did geck O came in and

672
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: bought out and I think he shuddered them though, that

673
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: was the difference.

674
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, he was a corporate raider.

675
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: He and actually that era, that eighties junk bond era

676
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: is frequently cited or it was the time as the

677
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: Second Gilded Age.

678
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: This is not the first time.

679
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: We're living in what's known as the Second Guilded Age.

680
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: So to put a bow on Vanderbilt, he consolidated, like

681
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: you said, all these railways between New York and Chicago.

682
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: He manipulated stock, he fixed prices like you said earlier,

683
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: the government wasn't looking so you kind of do what

684
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: you wanted. And he became a very very very wealthy man,

685
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: and like a lot of these guys late in his life,

686
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: turned into a philanthropist. Built Grand Central Station it was

687
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: called the Grand Central Depot at the time, which during

688
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: the recession provided tons and tons of jobs for people,

689
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: and then the Central University of Nashville was eventually renamed

690
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: Vanderbilt University.

691
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 4: Because all he did was give him a million bucks.

692
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 4: Isn't that crazy?

693
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: Is that right?

694
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 4: I guess back then, that's a lot of.

695
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: Money significant, sure, sure.

696
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: Like I feel like we could get stuff you should know,

697
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: listeners to pitch in to get a university named after

698
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: for us.

699
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 3: Let's try that, actually, stuff you should.

700
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: You we could do. We could organize a struggling university.

701
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 3: How about that?

702
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: Hey, one more thing about Vanderbilt. So he left about

703
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars to his mostly to his eldest son, William.

704
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: In six years, William doubled that, mostly by investing in railroads.

705
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: That's how much money you could make in railroads. And

706
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: William was also well known for throwing probably the most

707
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: laviage party in the history of New York City. They

708
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: spent one point eight million dollars in today's dollars on

709
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 1: champagne alone.

710
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was when he finished his mansion on Fifth Ave.

711
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 2: And I looked it up because to see if any

712
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 2: of these robber baron mansions were still around today.

713
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, I don't think it. I mean, I

714
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 4: know this one was demolished in nineteen twenty six.

715
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: So if you want to get a really good idea

716
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: of just how rich these people were, go to Newport,

717
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: Rhode Island man visit Millionaire's route because there was a

718
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: huge there's a huge overlooking this cliff. There's a long

719
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: row the most astounding mansions you've ever seen built during

720
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: the guilded one.

721
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: Of the better walks you can take in life. It

722
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: really got the ocean on one side and then these

723
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: mansions on the other.

724
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: It's really cool and each mansion, each mansion is so

725
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: different from the others.

726
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: Just touring them is amazing. You could just be utterly.

727
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: Disgusted by the concept of billionaires or robber barons or whatever,

728
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: and you can still enjoy taking this tour of these mansions.

729
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: They're just works of art, you know. It's really it's

730
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: really worth a visit. Plus, Newport's just one of the

731
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: more charming towns in the I love Newport.

732
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: Or you could take a hate walk and just look

733
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: at those mansions and think about what would wrecking Ball

734
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 2: would look like.

735
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 3: Shake your fists, set the dumb waiters and all that.

736
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 4: But then you turn around, look at the ocean and think, oh, okay, all.

737
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: Right, it's really cool. It's it's a definitely cool to

738
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: visit them, for sure.

739
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: And by the way, a little piece of trivia if

740
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 2: you go if you enter Central Park at one hundred

741
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: and fifth Street entrance, That big beautiful iron gate was

742
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: from that mansion, the Vanderbilt Mansion. They donated a lot

743
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: of the stuff before they demolished it.

744
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 3: Is that right?

745
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 4: Yeah?

746
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: So I mentioned Morganization, and that's actually named after the

747
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: next robber Baron we're going to talk about.

748
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: Okay, do we break beforehand? And I think we break

749
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 2: after JP?

750
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: How about that? Are you okay with that?

751
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 4: Sure?

752
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: Okay? So then we're going to hang in there, everybody,

753
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: don't don't fast forward yet. We're going to stick around

754
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: and talk about JP Morgan right now.

755
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was born with money.

756
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: He did not come from meager means and work himself

757
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 2: up by his bootstraps. He was the son of a

758
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 2: very successful banker and merchant and used those connections to

759
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: get a plumb job at Wall Street when he was

760
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: twenty years old, and then when he was in his thirties,

761
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: partnered with a guy named Anthony Drexel who was a

762
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 2: banker and from Philly and created Drexel Morgan and Company.

763
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: And it became one of the biggest investment bank at

764
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: the time in the world.

765
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was when he was in his early thirties,

766
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: like you said, right, So JP Morgan was known as

767
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: the guy who financed all the other robber barons, and

768
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: he had his fingers in basically every pot that was

769
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: going on. He also knew that like you could make

770
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: money off of the railroads because you were taking a

771
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: cut of all the other industries, so he definitely got

772
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: involved in them. But his whole thing was what's called

773
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: horizontal integration, where you basically come along you say, this

774
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: industry should be doing way better than it is. I

775
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: think there's too many competitors and they're all holding one

776
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: another down. I'm going to slowly start buying them up.

777
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: And here's the thing. This is how you get control

778
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: of a full industry. During the Gilded Age. You go

779
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: to a couple, you start buying them up, and then

780
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: you put all those together and you form a bigger

781
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: company that's way leaner, has much better economies of scale,

782
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: and you can compete better against all the other guys.

783
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: So you start buying some of the other guys up

784
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: because they're facing going out of business now, and then

785
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: you've got left the real holdouts, the ones that are

786
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: never going to sell to you because they hate your

787
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: stupid face, and they'll never give a penny to you.

788
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: Make sure that you'll never set foot in their offices

789
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: ever again. And what you do then is you start

790
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: selling for less than cost. Yeah, you're a big company,

791
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: so you can totally stand that for a much longer

792
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: time than these holdout competitors, and they face either financial

793
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: ruin or you eventually put them out of business, and

794
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: either way you no longer have that competition. You literally

795
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: control an entire industry consolidated into one beefy mega company,

796
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you have what's called Morganization,

797
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: which was I don't know if it was pioneered by

798
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 1: JP Morgan, but he definitely perfected it enough that they

799
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 1: named the process after him.

800
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's a good example of what I was

801
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: talking about earlier, is it's not enough to succeed and

802
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 2: be successful, but to make sure no one else can be.

803
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 2: So like it would be the kind of thing in

804
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: that one company you were talking about that may be

805
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: kind of pretty small even, but they might hold have

806
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: an iron grip on one very tiny region of the

807
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 2: United States, and you could just let them have their business,

808
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: or you could do what you're talking about and make

809
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: sure that you squash them by any means necessary and

810
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,959
Speaker 2: force them to sell. And that's I think that's where

811
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 2: capitalism for a lot of people has gotten its bad name.

812
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: Is like, yeah, work hard, succeed do well, but not

813
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: at the expense of every other person trying to do well.

814
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: Right, because it interferes with something this country's based on,

815
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: which is called the quality of opportunity, which is the

816
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: idea that at least under the eyes of the law,

817
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: every single person in America has an equal shot at

818
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: making it, at making something of themselves, of having like

819
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: a good life. And when somebody is cheating or engaging

820
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: in monopoly or using underhanded tactics to run out the

821
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: competition so that there is no competition any longer, that

822
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: that is problematic. That flies in the face of the

823
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: idea of equality of opportunity.

824
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 4: That's right.

825
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: And if you listen to our Monopoly Game episode, you

826
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: might remember that JP Morgan was the basis of monopoly Man.

827
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 4: Uncle Peter said, yeah, we talked about that.

828
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 3: Good, Okay, that makes me feel good.

829
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

830
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: He was modeled after old JP Morgan himself, and he

831
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 2: was actually one of the first people to be targeted

832
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 2: for anti trust in nineteen oh four, Eddie Roosevelt game

833
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,959
Speaker 2: after him under the Sherman Anti Trust Act and said, hey,

834
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: this Northern Securities Corporation is really monopoly, and Supreme Court said, yeah,

835
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: it is busted up.

836
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so today when we think of trusts, we

837
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: think of, like, you know, a legal entity that can

838
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: hold assets. At the time, the word trust meant basically

839
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: an industry that had been morganized, where all of the

840
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: competitors had been folded into one large company and the

841
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: market was cornered by this one mega company, General Electric,

842
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: us Steel, both of those were morganized companies, and apparently

843
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: US Steel was the first one billion dollar company that

844
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: ever existed because of that level of consolidation. But then, yeah,

845
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 1: when the Sherman Anti Trust Act was passed in eighteen ninety,

846
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,959
Speaker 1: that was a clear sign that this was not going

847
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: to stand much longer. And I think Roosevelt, it was Roosevelt,

848
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: you said, right, yeah, Teddy who busted that up? And

849
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: he ran on that and actually went against He was

850
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: a Republican, I believe, and he went against the advice

851
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: of the the Elder Statesman and the Republican Party established

852
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: himself as a genuine president of the people and helped

853
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: set himself up for reelection just from that one anti

854
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 1: trust act.

855
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 4: So that's jp. Now do we take a break.

856
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Oh one more thing, Chuck, Yeah, I'm not toying with you,

857
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: I swear.

858
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 4: So.

859
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 1: One of the ways that Morgan one of the reasons

860
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: he's reviled still. And he did some philanthropy, probably more

861
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: than he gets credit for, for sure, but one of

862
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: the reasons he's reviled is because one of the ways

863
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: he made it so that he could compete with other

864
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: companies was in sell for lower than cost, was by

865
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: slashing wages, slashing the workforce and increasing productivity of the

866
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: existing workers, and then just making sure that working conditions.

867
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: He didn't spend a cent on improving working conditions to

868
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: make him safe, and that is really why not because

869
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: he amassed a fortune. Some people criticize him for that,

870
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: but it's tactics like that, like becoming a billionaire basically

871
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: on the backs of people who he wouldn't have spent

872
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: a cent to make sure could stay alive working in

873
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 1: his factories. That is the quintessential problem people have always.

874
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: Had with robber barons, is that kind of mentality.

875
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 4: That's right.

876
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: Now, I'm done.

877
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 2: All right, we'll come back right after this and finish

878
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: up with two more robber barons. Hello, everybody, we're back

879
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: to talk about Andrew Carnegie. You've ever been to Carnegie

880
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 2: Hall or Carnegie Mellon University.

881
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: I've been to both.

882
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 3: You've been one of the university with you. That's right.

883
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 4: We did a little job there one time. That was fun.

884
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 2: I've been to Carnegie Hall. I ushered a show there.

885
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 2: I didn't usher. I passed up the playbills, which meant

886
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: I got to see the show for free, and I

887
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: saw the show.

888
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 4: Oh man, it was one of those special nights.

889
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 2: I got to see Beethoven's Ninth with the full orchestra

890
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: and German choir at Carnegie Hall.

891
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 4: It was amazing.

892
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 3: Wow.

893
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 4: Something else that's pretty neat And all I needed was

894
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 4: a bow tie?

895
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 3: Is that the one that's d d d d ding

896
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 3: ding ding ding didn't.

897
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 4: Know, maybe had named it wrong.

898
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,479
Speaker 2: It's the uh dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun.

899
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 3: Oh, the die Hard song.

900
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Diehard song.

901
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: I got you.

902
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 4: I went and saw a Dieharden concert. It was great, hilarious,

903
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 4: so Carnegie.

904
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 2: Uh, we're talking about Andrew Carnegie, who was born in

905
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 2: Scotland and they came to Pittsburgh.

906
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 4: He was very poor.

907
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: He's about thirteen years old and he worked in a

908
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 2: cotton factory and he and this will come into play later,

909
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: he kind of self taught himself from books that he

910
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: borrowed from a wealthy benefactor from his private library, which

911
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 2: is come to play later.

912
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: His favorite one was Flowers in the Attic.

913
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 4: Wow. I would have thought great expectations, but that's okay.

914
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 3: No, nope.

915
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: So he he, like Vanderbilt, is definitely a self made

916
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: man for sure. And I guess he kind of was.

917
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: He had his fingers in a lot of different pots,

918
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: kind of like JP Morgan at first, and then he

919
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: turned his attention to steel because again remember steel is

920
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: like the basically the foundation for this American economy just

921
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: blowing up.

922
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 4: And he was at Pittsburgh.

923
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: Sure, so he his name became synonymous with steel, and

924
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: I guess at first, up until about eighteen ninety two,

925
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 1: he had a reputation as being a friend of the worker,

926
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: and that the workers at Carnegie Steel in Homestead, just

927
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: across the river from Pittsburgh, they they felt like, you know,

928
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: Carnegie would take care of them, and they found out

929
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: the hard way that that was not the case when

930
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: they went on strike in eighteen ninety two during what

931
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,959
Speaker 1: came to be known as the Homestead Strike, which would

932
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: result in the death of ten people, which is not

933
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: how they planned things to go. And apparently the reason

934
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: why that happened is because the Pinkertons were called in

935
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: as strike breakers.

936
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

937
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: I might want to eventually do an episode on this,

938
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 2: but that's sort of the overview. You bring in the

939
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 2: Pinkertons and then they battle with the like literally with guns.

940
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 2: Pinkertons died. I think like eight or nine of the

941
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: ten or twelve people that died with the Pinkertons.

942
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: No, no, I think it was just one. I think

943
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: were the strikers.

944
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well we should definitely do a full episode then,

945
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 2: because for.

946
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 4: Sure I want to get this right.

947
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: But what I read was that the strikers, so the

948
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: Pinkertons showed up in barges and they were basically hired

949
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: on as a private army to protect scab workers and

950
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: bust the strike up. But they arrived in barges and

951
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: after the initial violence, the striking workers and some of

952
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: their families surrounded these barges and demanded that the Pinkertons

953
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: come off the boats and the Pinkertons So the Pinkertons said, Okay,

954
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: we'll come off if you guarantee our safety. And they

955
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 1: said fine, and the Pinkertons came off and they got

956
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: beaten by all of the strikers. They just completely went

957
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: back on their word and then set their barges on fire.

958
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: I guess the Pinkertons escaped to the factory with their

959
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: life and the National Guard was called in to quell

960
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: the violence.

961
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

962
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: Well, national Guard was called in not only to quell

963
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: the violence, but also called in to act in the

964
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: interest of Carnegie. So he kind of commandeered his own

965
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: little personal army to help take care of things.

966
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: Right, starting with the Pinkertons and then with the National Guard.

967
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: And it's like this kind of collusion that is also

968
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: another huge criticism. Like we were saying, the government is

969
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: known for being like las fair as far as regulation

970
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: is concerned, but they'll totally send in the National Guard

971
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: not just to qwelve violence, but to make sure that

972
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: the strike breakers don't attack the scab labor to keep

973
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: the factory going, and that kind of like government capital

974
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: collusion at the expense of the workers. Is that there's

975
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: a long standing tradition of that being almost universally reviled

976
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: in America.

977
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 3: Over enough of an arc of time.

978
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: If that keeps up more and more just everyday, Americans

979
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: start to notice and start to resent it, and that

980
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: apparently is a really good force for social change, because

981
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: Americans don't like that kind of thing after a long

982
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: enough period of time.

983
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think Carnegie tried to distance himself from

984
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: that strike by saying that he was sort of out

985
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: of the loop. He was in Scotland the whole time,

986
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 2: But they have since found correspondence that shows that he

987
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: was very much involved in that. And you know, there's

988
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: some speculation that he may have had some genuine moments

989
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 2: of regret and guilt over that, because he was a

990
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 2: big time philanthropist later in life. I think he said

991
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: in his book The Gospel of Wealth, the man who

992
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 2: dies thus rich dies disgraced. And we mentioned the libraries

993
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: coming back into play. He built more than twenty five

994
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: hundred libraries, and that's really one of his big legacies,

995
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: along with the arts. The Carnegie Corporation and the Endowment

996
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 2: for International Peace, Carnegie Mellon University, Carnegie Museum. But the

997
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: libraries really have made a pretty big difference in this country.

998
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 3: They really have, for sure.

999
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: And he was one of just the all time great

1000
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: philanthropists in American history, for sure, but he still pales

1001
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: in comparison to the all time top record holder philanthropist

1002
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: John D. Rockefeller, who is also a Robert Baron. But

1003
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: he also is far away America's most prolific and generous

1004
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: benefactor for sure. He was also one of the most

1005
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: visionary philanthropists of all time too.

1006
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people say that he was, you know,

1007
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 2: if you just account for money and inflation, the richest

1008
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: man ever to live. I'm not sure how they calculate that,

1009
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 2: because his nine hundred million dollar peek in nineteen twelve

1010
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 2: is about twenty three billion today.

1011
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 3: So here I saw how you ready?

1012
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's yeah, go ahead, if you do his

1013
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: wealth relative to the total economic output, Yeah, it's an

1014
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: even larger figure than gross domestic product.

1015
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 4: I had a feeling it was something like that.

1016
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: His wealth represented two percent of the total economic output

1017
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: of the United States at the time. To have that

1018
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: value today, you would have to be worth about three

1019
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty billion, Okay, and I think Jeff Bezos

1020
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: is worth one hundred and forty or something like that.

1021
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we didn't even mention it was

1022
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: it Carnegie that had at one point, like one dollar

1023
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: of every twenty dollars in circulation.

1024
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 4: Was his.

1025
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that was Carnegie for sure.

1026
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1027
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,320
Speaker 2: I mean these numbers are staggering, for sure, for people

1028
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: like Rockefeller and Carnegie.

1029
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 4: It's just it's unbelievable.

1030
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: But the thing is, in like, like John D. Rockefeller

1031
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: was a ruthless, ruthless businessman who put a lot of

1032
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: people out of business, brought a lot of misery and

1033
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: hardship on just small everyday producers of oil, which we'll see.

1034
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: But again, it's really difficult to overstate the impact that

1035
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: his philanthropy has had on the United States. He peaked

1036
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: at nine hundred million, like you said, when he died,

1037
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: he had he'd given away everything but twenty six million

1038
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: of that, and he probably felt kind of bad that

1039
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: he had twenty six million dollars left because he had

1040
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: He was a very religious man, and apparently he learned

1041
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: very early on that it was every man's religious duty

1042
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: to make as much money as you possibly can and

1043
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 1: then to give away as much money as you possibly

1044
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: can too, And he apparently lived that even before he

1045
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: was wealthy, when he was still just.

1046
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 3: An average worker.

1047
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, he would give away something like ten percent of

1048
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: all of his paychecks. So he was a philanthropist his

1049
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: whole life, for sure. He was still a robber bearing too.

1050
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 2: Though, Yeah, and his whole you know, of course, oil

1051
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 2: was his business. Standard oil it was just a goliath,

1052
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: and there were a bunch of big like sort of

1053
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 2: like the railroads. It was oil and railroads were industries

1054
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 2: where you could have a bunch of people that had

1055
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 2: these huge, huge corporations. But Standard Oil was far and

1056
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 2: away bigger than any of them.

1057
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 4: By the early.

1058
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 2: Nineteen hundreds, they controlled more than ninety percent of the

1059
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: oil market. Can you imagine ninety percent.

1060
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: And the way that he cornered the market was, you know,

1061
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: he did that standard organization kind of thing where he

1062
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: went around and bought at first and then started to

1063
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: turn up the heat on the competition, on the holdouts.

1064
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: But one of the ways that he turned up that

1065
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 1: heat was he colluded with the railroad. The different railroads

1066
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: in the area who were shipping all this oil. To say,

1067
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: not only were they going to give him a rebate

1068
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: so he got money back where they wouldn't give money

1069
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: back to other oil shippers just because of volume. That

1070
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: makes sense, but they also had to get his business,

1071
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: and he had so much business that they would do this.

1072
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: The railroads had to tax and added tax on all

1073
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: of his competitors, so they paid an extra twenty to

1074
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: thirty cents a barrel to ship. Not just paid more

1075
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: than he did because of his rebates, they paid more

1076
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: in addition to that just for not being John D. Rockefeller.

1077
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, to keep him from

1078
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: taking that rebate and going around to other railroads and

1079
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: getting a cheaper rebate and abandoning that railroad, they actually

1080
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: gave him a kickback of that added tax. So his

1081
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: competitors were getting taxed by the railroads, and he was

1082
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: actually getting some of that tax himself too. You just

1083
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 1: can't possibly compete with that, and it put a lot

1084
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: of smaller oil producers and shippers and refiners out of business.

1085
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 4: It's amazing it is.

1086
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 2: Let me see, he gave seventy five million away to

1087
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 2: the University of Chicago. Well, it kind of founded the

1088
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: University of Chicago with that money.

1089
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: Also Spellman too, which was established to educate freed slaves.

1090
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: He bankrolled Spellman for its founding as well.

1091
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: And in one of our best and most favored episodes,

1092
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 2: you might remember the Rockefeller Sanitary Commission helped eradicate hookworm

1093
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 2: in the South.

1094
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. That is one of our better episodes for sure.

1095
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: So those are just four of the sort of most

1096
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: famous and some might say notorious.

1097
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 4: Robert Barons big long list.

1098
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 2: You could throw Henry Ford in there, John Jacob Astor,

1099
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 2: Charles Schwab, Andrew Mellon, Jay Gould, Yeah, I looked at

1100
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 2: I was thinking about J. Paulgetty, but he was later

1101
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 2: on he wouldn't have qualified.

1102
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 1: So some of these guys had some terrible quotes too

1103
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,479
Speaker 1: that also just made them despised through history. Carnegie said

1104
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: that it's not the man who does the work who

1105
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: gets rich, it's the man who gets other men to

1106
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: do the work. Yeah, which is not a very tasteful

1107
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: thing to say when you're ultra wealthy and breaking strikes

1108
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: with guns. That Jay Gould guy I mentioned, he said

1109
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: that he could hire one half of the workers in

1110
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: America to shoot the other half to death if he

1111
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: wanted to, which is another nice thing to say. And

1112
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: apparently John D. Rockefeller once said competition is a sin.

1113
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: So these guys had some terrible pr and because of that,

1114
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people have said, like, well, I wonder

1115
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: if some of the ultra wealthy industrialists are in or

1116
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: people who basically the billionaires who are leading the world today,

1117
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: are they just like Robert Barons with better pr and

1118
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: better marketing. Maybe, And apparently supposedly that's not necessarily the case.

1119
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: And here's why.

1120
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: Remember I was saying that like Robert Barons were kind

1121
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: of being reformed by historians these days, especially conservative historians. Well,

1122
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: they point to some like really indisputable things like these

1123
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: guys were ruthless and they engaged in horrific anti competitive,

1124
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: kind of anti capitalist tactics to get those wealth and

1125
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: they did it on the backs of workers that they

1126
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: took advantage of and didn't pay very well and killed

1127
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: in their workplaces. Basically, but the reason that America is

1128
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: still powerful today is because of the work that these

1129
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: guys did of the industries that they created. Public schooling

1130
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: came about and was just kind of became widespread to

1131
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: people for the jobs that these guys created, and you

1132
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: really can't, you can't look away from the fact that

1133
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: some of them were the greatest philanthropists that the country

1134
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: has ever produced. Too. That flies in the face, with

1135
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: kind of the exception of Bill Gates. It flies in

1136
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: the face of the people who are around today that

1137
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: not only are they not great philanthropists necessarily. I'm looking

1138
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: at Steve Jobs, who wasn't around anymore, but definitely was

1139
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: not a good philanthropist in his life. He is now,

1140
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: his family is, but he wasn't when he was alive.

1141
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: That's a big, big mark against people who have control

1142
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: of significant portions of the wealth in America today. But

1143
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: also even more than that, those guys today are they're

1144
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: presiding over a decline, a decline in wages, decline in

1145
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: living conditions, whereas these guys, these captains of industry and

1146
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,960
Speaker 1: the robber barons for the nineteenth century, they were presiding

1147
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: over a rise, like an improved in the way that

1148
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: America lived and the standard of living. The kind of

1149
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: the polar opposite, even though the inequality is roughly the same.

1150
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 3: Very interesting, I think so too.

1151
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: I also wonder though too if this inequality will usher

1152
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: in a second progressive era, which it seems like it

1153
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: has all of the markings to do that too, So

1154
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: we need to do a progressive era episode too sometime. Okay, deal,

1155
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: all right, Well, since you said deal, Chuck, I think

1156
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: that's time for a listener mail.

1157
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: Huh, Yeah, I think I alluded to this in another

1158
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: one about the word marijuana. Didn't I talk about that totally?

1159
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 2: But I didn't read the mail, right, not that I

1160
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,439
Speaker 2: remember knowing. All right, this is from Jack Glick. Hey, guys,

1161
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 2: love the show. Been listening for five years or so,

1162
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: and to make sure not to miss any new episodes,

1163
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: I'm listening to the one on Macha when you started

1164
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: to talk about marijuana.

1165
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 4: Decided to get in touch.

1166
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: I am the lead analyst on cannabis taxation for the

1167
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 2: Canadian federal government, and we long ago made a decision

1168
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 2: to refer to the plant by its proper name cannabis.

1169
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 2: Marijuana has a number of historically racist associations, and I

1170
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 2: know you guys are always using wary of using appropriate

1171
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 2: terms for things. I had a good laugh at the

1172
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 2: question over whether womb was still okay to say in

1173
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 2: the ultrasound episode. I thought you might like to know

1174
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: that how outdated and implicitly offensive marijuana is, and I'd

1175
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: like to encourage you to use the word.

1176
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 4: Cannabis when referring to it in the future. All the best,

1177
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 4: keep it up. That is from Jack Glick.

1178
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: That is a great name, Jack, great job, great name,

1179
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: great email from a great guy.

1180
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 4: I assume sounds like a great guy.

1181
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: If you want to show off what a great person

1182
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: you are, you can email us yourself like Jack Glick did.

1183
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 3: Man what a great name.

1184
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom

1185
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: and send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

1186
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 4: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1187
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1188
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,440
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.