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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, it's listener

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Speaker 1: questions again. This time I'm going on a deep dive

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Speaker 1: on a few questions that I think Marrital longer discussion

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Speaker 1: from killer Kangaroos, two pesky parasites, do evolutionary copycats? Discover

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Speaker 1: this and more as we answer the angel question why

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Speaker 1: is Australia joining me today? To answer your questions? Is

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Speaker 1: point guard of the podcast Lour After Hours, Christi Yamagucci Mane. Hello, Katie,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to

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Speaker 1: be here, of course. Yeah, I have wanted to have

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Speaker 1: you on the show. I think you are an awesome

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Speaker 1: person and I figured this would be this would be

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Speaker 1: good because we're just like a corny copeia of animal topics.

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Speaker 1: I I'm thrilled. I I did not know if we

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Speaker 1: were going to focus solely on the killer kangaroos when

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Speaker 1: I when I got the email earlier, UM, I absolutely

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Speaker 1: am excited for that topic. On Hour after Hours, we

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Speaker 1: actually have a foreign correspondent, Morgan from Australia who keeps

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Speaker 1: us informed on all of the the weird wildlife that

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Speaker 1: happens around her. Although she has told me that she's

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Speaker 1: never seen a kangaroo? What is she even really from Australia.

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Speaker 1: It's either either she is from Australia and and has

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Speaker 1: just never never seen a kangaroo, or it's the greatest

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Speaker 1: single accent work I have ever ever come across, ever witnessed.

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Speaker 1: Not even a wallaby. You know, I've never I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've ever asked her about a wallaby? A wallaby? Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I will absolutely and keep like going down in size

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Speaker 1: in terms of like marsupial, like have you seen a wallaby?

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Speaker 1: What about a koala? Uh? What about a nikidna? And

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Speaker 1: if it's like no to any of those, I think

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Speaker 1: he got catfished? She uh? I know she is a

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Speaker 1: super fan of Australian What is I'm going to butcher this?

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Speaker 1: It's like Australian rules football or something like that. I

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Speaker 1: just whatever I just said. People are yelling at your

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Speaker 1: podcast because I absolutely just butchered it. Because even though

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Speaker 1: our our podcast kind of vaguely tangentially touches sports, I'm

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Speaker 1: terrible at everything about them. So well, maybe it's a

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Speaker 1: wallaball wallaby ball. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe uh similar to the way I think soccer developed

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Speaker 1: originally from like and I could be making this up

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Speaker 1: to using like a goat head the original soccer ball

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Speaker 1: to kick. I think that's true. Either I just made

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Speaker 1: that up and it's completely awful that I I came

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Speaker 1: up with that based on absolutely nothing, or that's a

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Speaker 1: completely true fact. I mean it's it is awful, but

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Speaker 1: it's also pretty metal, so trade off. But we are

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Speaker 1: talking about kangaroos at least for this first question from

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Speaker 1: Leeds who showed me this tweet and Leads writes, this

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Speaker 1: is a picture warning that kangaroos in water will try

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Speaker 1: to drown you. Is this really true? And there is

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Speaker 1: a tweet? Okay, so this is from Cormack Ferrell on

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Speaker 1: Twitter who writes that fun kangaroo fact. This kangaroo is

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Speaker 1: waiting for pursuers to come into the water with him,

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Speaker 1: where he will try to drown them. They are extremely

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Speaker 1: good at it. Never ever go into water with a kangaroo.

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Speaker 1: Everything has lots of innovative ways to kill you here,

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Speaker 1: So Australia. You're a beautiful country and I love you.

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Speaker 1: But it's true that from everything from like your box

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Speaker 1: jellyfish to your adorable but deadly blue ring octopus. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just like everything is trying to kill you. Guys. What's

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Speaker 1: up with that? The the great I know, the great

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Speaker 1: white sharks are are very common on the reefs down there.

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Speaker 1: And uh even yeah, yeah, even the platypus. Doesn't the

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Speaker 1: platypus have some kind of poisonous element to it? It does.

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Speaker 1: It has a venomous spine the on its behind legs

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Speaker 1: that it can use to give you a dose of

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Speaker 1: venom So so even something as doofy and looks like

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Speaker 1: it was put together by a four year old after

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Speaker 1: learning what a a beaver and a duck and a

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Speaker 1: and a sea otter was, you know, and combined those,

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Speaker 1: it looks like a pokemon, right, except it's still venomous,

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Speaker 1: still venomous. So yeah, yeah, it's it's it's absolutely wild

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Speaker 1: water in Australia. Well, speaking of something in the water,

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Speaker 1: is this kangaroo? Yeah kangaroos? Is this thing going to

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Speaker 1: kill me? Well? Here's the thing is this isn't interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think I actually have heard about this. I read

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Speaker 1: or saw something about a kangaroo almost drowning someone's dog. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And I think from what I've read, and I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: not actually a kangaroo expert, although I do know that

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Speaker 1: they have a female. Kangaroos do have too vaginas. It's cool,

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Speaker 1: but they do. It's not necessarily that they're not predators, right,

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Speaker 1: They're not trying to drown you. They're not like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing this for I'm doing this for all life.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I I don't know. I can't do an

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Speaker 1: Australian accent. It's probably a defensive behavior. So from what

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Speaker 1: I can tell, they aren't trying to bait you into

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Speaker 1: drowning you. But they are putting distance between you and themselves.

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Speaker 1: And they're strong swimmers. They may very well understand that

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Speaker 1: they have a bit of an upper hand if they're

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Speaker 1: in a body of waters. So if they're in a

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Speaker 1: body of water, some kind of predator may be less

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Speaker 1: likely to be able to get at them, and then

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Speaker 1: if they do try to get at them, uh, then

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Speaker 1: they can drown them there. They have very very powerful

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Speaker 1: hind legs. They can kick you, pull you down there.

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Speaker 1: They're very strong and so they may have this advantage

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Speaker 1: in the water where a predator may be less agile,

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Speaker 1: less mobile. Uh. And then they can literally like just

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Speaker 1: hold you under and drown you if you're trying to

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Speaker 1: pursue them. It's not that they're murderous per se, but

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Speaker 1: they are definitely going to defend themselves from you. So

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Speaker 1: I think with the case with the dog, probably this

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Speaker 1: kangaroo thought like, oh, the dog is trying to attack me,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna, you know, hold this little sucker under

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Speaker 1: the water. Uh. And so I think that yeah, maybe

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Speaker 1: they seek They might be seeking out the water because

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Speaker 1: they uh see it. It's like basically like instinctively like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I need to escape. This is a probably a good

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Speaker 1: spot for me to to escape too. And then if

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Speaker 1: you still go in and pursue them, then they're like,

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Speaker 1: all right, no, it's on now. It's on now, buddy.

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Speaker 1: So I I raised three boys, Um, I know that

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Speaker 1: when I'm in a swimming pool, I can launch them

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Speaker 1: over my head and feel like a pro wrestler. Right,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I don't have the same leverage whenever we're

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Speaker 1: you know, whenever they were younger and I was in

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Speaker 1: the backyard and we'd wrestle on like the trampoline or something.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you you immediately become stronger in the water

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Speaker 1: because a buoyancy and and and you don't you know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have your own body weight to fight against um.

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Speaker 1: But one of my favorite things that I see every

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Speaker 1: usually happens like once a year or or you know whatever.

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Speaker 1: The social media cycle is as soon as it's out

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Speaker 1: of everybody's consciousness. But somebody will post a picture of

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Speaker 1: a I'm assuming a male kangaroo up close, and people

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Speaker 1: do not realize how jacked these things are. They look

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Speaker 1: like they're on steroids. Like if you Google search jacked kangaroo,

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Speaker 1: it looks like it's photoshopped. It looks like they took

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Speaker 1: a nineties baseball player on steroids and put a kangaroo's

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Speaker 1: head and and arms on it. It is absolutely wild.

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Speaker 1: If if you're listening and you have not seen one

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Speaker 1: of these photos, just Google search jacked kangaroo. Absolutely wild. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they are. It's there. They need these really powerful

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Speaker 1: muscles to be able to jump and move. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's sort of like if you look

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Speaker 1: at a rabbit, which they're not related to kangaroos. I'm

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Speaker 1: not implying that, but they have those really powerful hind legs,

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Speaker 1: and especially if you look at a wild hair which

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Speaker 1: we actually talked about in our episode recently about bunnies,

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Speaker 1: which is they they actually look quite muscular and and

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Speaker 1: lena and there behind legs can actually do some damage.

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Speaker 1: So you scale that up to the size of a

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Speaker 1: big kangaroo. Absolutely, they are just covered in muscles. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So there's this quote by Graham Coulson of the University

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Speaker 1: of Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne. Is it Melbourne or is it

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Speaker 1: Melbourne Melbourne? Yeah, this, yes, this sounds right Melbourne, who's

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Speaker 1: a kangaroo ecologist. Uh says that quote. There's a very

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Speaker 1: strong instinct kangaroos will go to water if they're threatened

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Speaker 1: by a predator. Uh So, I think it's it's questionable

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Speaker 1: whether it's their intent to drown you once you go

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Speaker 1: out there, but basically they're like, I can swim, well,

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Speaker 1: I'll go in this water. This should be enough to

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Speaker 1: deter the predator. And then if you still go in

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Speaker 1: after it, even if you're going in to get a selfie,

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Speaker 1: the kangaroo is like, oh my own, isn't it it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: look at this picture. I hope folks can can see

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Speaker 1: this this tweet. At some point, I'll have it in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. It is. It is so spooky. It

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Speaker 1: is like there's no ripples in the water, There's no

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Speaker 1: there's nothing else around it. Just if if I came

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Speaker 1: across this kangaroo ever, I would not in a million

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Speaker 1: years damned Like I might take a selfie at a distance. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's probably gonna be far enough away that you

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Speaker 1: can't even tell what's what's actually in the water behind you. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it is. It is one of the creepier

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Speaker 1: what are the creepier photos I've seen? There is no

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Speaker 1: way I'm getting in the water with this thing. It's

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Speaker 1: giving me a death stare. I can just I can

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Speaker 1: just hear it, you know, like you want to get molded?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you want? Did I get to die?

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Speaker 1: You want to die to die? Do you? It's uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: No kangaroos I don't don't think of as a friendly animal.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a wallaby, sure, uh Koala no, they a little

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Speaker 1: scared of Koala's kangaroo. No way, they will kick my

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Speaker 1: whole entire face off going to swim with a kangaroo.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, Rather, I'd rather swim with a shark. I

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Speaker 1: think I'd be safe for swimming with a shark. And

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Speaker 1: I love, I don't, I love. I love going swimming.

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not freaked out by by swimming in

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Speaker 1: the ocean or anything like that. But there is no

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Speaker 1: way in hell I would ever. Uh, you've got to

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Speaker 1: be very hungry as a predator to to go into

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Speaker 1: the water after one of these things. And I've seen

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Speaker 1: those videos of I think there was one circulating not

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Speaker 1: too long ago where this kangaroo came up to this

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Speaker 1: this dude's sliding glass door and was just throwing himself

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Speaker 1: against the glass, like very aggressively. It was like a

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Speaker 1: zombie Kane Garu was was trying to invade his home.

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Speaker 1: And if you've ever seen it, they use those tails.

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Speaker 1: Those tails are absolutely incredible where they lean back on

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Speaker 1: the tail and it launches them forward. It's like having

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Speaker 1: a third leg. Uh that It's it's incredible, Well fourth leg.

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Speaker 1: For no, I wasn't. I wasn't going to go there, Katie.

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Speaker 1: But okay, I'm sorry, No, no, no, don't apologize, but yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it is. They are They're powerful animals. They absolutely are intimidating.

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Speaker 1: There's this video of someone on a parachute gliding down

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Speaker 1: to the landing spot and as he lands, this kangaroo

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Speaker 1: comes up to him. He's like, oh, I skip, and

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Speaker 1: then the kangaroo swings at him and punches him. That's

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Speaker 1: that's what's so unnerving about a kangaroo. It's like we

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Speaker 1: we have from what I understand, even though our foreign correspondent,

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Speaker 1: Morgan as An ever seeing a kangaroo before, allegedly, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they're they're as common as like deer over there. They're

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Speaker 1: they're super common there. They they seem to be. This

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Speaker 1: is from my very myopic American perspective. It seems like

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Speaker 1: they're everywhere except they're they're as tall as a human being.

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Speaker 1: They have like they they have like deer like snouts,

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Speaker 1: kind of this this absurd tale, these huge claws like there.

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Speaker 1: Their talents are are significant, but it's the it's the

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Speaker 1: physiology of almost being human like with their biceps and

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Speaker 1: their their their triceps. I don't know the muscle groups

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Speaker 1: or anything. I'm terrible at that as well, but but

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Speaker 1: there's it's like a blend between like a deer and

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Speaker 1: a human and like a velociraptor and a velocoraptor exactly.

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Speaker 1: That's perfect, that's perfect. Yeah, No, they're they're they're jacked,

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Speaker 1: they're small, and they kind to have that a little

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Speaker 1: bit of that like velociraptor. Look, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: mess with them at all. What's interesting is this whole

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Speaker 1: thing of like an animal luring you into the water

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Speaker 1: to drown you, is it has this precedent of mythology.

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Speaker 1: So like, have you ever heard of the kelpie in

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Speaker 1: Scottish folklore? I have not. I do not think I'm

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Speaker 1: familiar with that. Yeah, it's one of the kind of

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Speaker 1: lesser known mythological creatures. But a kelpie is a horse

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Speaker 1: spirit from Scotland that lives in rivers and other bodies

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Speaker 1: of water that lures people in and then pulls them

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Speaker 1: into the river and drowns them. Oh okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: that's terrifying. Yeah. So there are a lot of versions

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Speaker 1: of the magical kelpie. Sometimes the kelpie will turn into

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Speaker 1: a beautiful woman, either fully into a woman or a

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Speaker 1: woman with horse hoofs uh. Sometimes it's a spectral horse

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Speaker 1: with backwards hooves. Sometimes it had a mane of serpents.

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Speaker 1: It's very variable, like what these kelpies take the form of,

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Speaker 1: but typically horse like. Okay, well, men are completely idiots,

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Speaker 1: so if you give it the vague shape of a woman,

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Speaker 1: we will we will, you know, completely be lord to

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Speaker 1: to anywhere you know. Allegedly that basically what I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is that's a great excuse for men doing stupid shit anyway,

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Speaker 1: just to say, oh, yeah, there was a beautiful woman

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Speaker 1: that that lured him into the into the bog and

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Speaker 1: he was never party with me in this river. I'm

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Speaker 1: a human woman. He check out my bodacious boobies. Whoa

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Speaker 1: I love how quickly you find the voices of these characters, instantly, instantly,

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Speaker 1: You're so good at this. I've got I've got. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: got a little horse inside them. But yeah, so, why

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Speaker 1: does the kelpie want to drown you? Some say it's

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Speaker 1: for companionship, which is strange to me. The more reasonable

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Speaker 1: explanation is eating your entrails um. In some myths, the

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Speaker 1: kelpie can extend its back to see many riders, so

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Speaker 1: like become a long horse, like a stretched limo of horses,

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Speaker 1: and then it gallops into the river and brings everyone

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Speaker 1: to their watery grave. Wow. Okay, so so is there

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Speaker 1: is this? You know how myths sometimes are formed, well

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Speaker 1: not sometimes quite often are formed to explain away something

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Speaker 1: that that you know, like the thunderbolts, you know, thor

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Speaker 1: or Zeus or or whoever. Um. Uh. We create these

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Speaker 1: these mythologies to explain natural phenomena. Is that what this

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Speaker 1: developed out of? It's a really good question. I think

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of myths and this is a trend.

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Speaker 1: I've noticed a lot of myths about uh some kind

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Speaker 1: of mythical creature in or near water, uh worring people

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Speaker 1: to drown. And I think it is in general way

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Speaker 1: to explain uh sudden drownings of people who you would think, oh,

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Speaker 1: well they wouldn't they know not to mess around in

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Speaker 1: the river, Like why would they drown? And I think

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a this idea that like some kind

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Speaker 1: of ramp like someone couldn't you know, my my dear

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Speaker 1: cousin wouldn't have just like slipped on a rock, hit

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Speaker 1: his head and drowned. Like that's too dumb of a

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Speaker 1: death for him, Like no, it must have been like

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Speaker 1: a horse demon luring him with its horse boobies. Uh,

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Speaker 1: like it's I think it's an explanation for like we've

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Speaker 1: seen that with um at sea, you know, sirens or mermaids,

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Speaker 1: which some speculate may have been manatees, with the idea

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Speaker 1: of like, well, they couldn't have just run aground, like

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Speaker 1: they must have been lured to land by some uh

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Speaker 1: bodacious mermaids and uh right fish boobies. And but I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I think there's an another one, like the river

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Speaker 1: dolphins in the Amazon. These boato river dolphins are said

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Speaker 1: to like like transform into handsome men when they come

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Speaker 1: out of the water to like lure women. Uh and

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Speaker 1: they like cover their blowhole with like a fancy hat

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Speaker 1: or something. And it's like again like well, how could

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Speaker 1: she have just drowned like in the room, Like, no,

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Speaker 1: she must have been lured there by a sexy dolphin man.

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Speaker 1: Uh So so yeah, I think I think it's like

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Speaker 1: rivers are strangely dangerous sometimes, like you don't know, like

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Speaker 1: you'll see you part of the river that looks calm

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Speaker 1: and you think, well, I can wait across that, and

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Speaker 1: you step in and it's much faster. Uh. Sometimes there

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Speaker 1: are like these these rivers that look narrow but are

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Speaker 1: very deep and fast moving, so if you try to

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Speaker 1: wait across, it's like instant drowning. Uh So it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: rivers are very very dangerous. Uh They you have to

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Speaker 1: be very careful navigating them. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people just accidentally die around rivers, especially you know

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Speaker 1: back in the oldie Scotland, so like you had to

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Speaker 1: have some way of like, you know, well, I I

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Speaker 1: he was going across the river and he disappeared or drowned.

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Speaker 1: It must have been a horse lady, a magical horse lady.

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Speaker 1: It's it's incredible to me what we will come up

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Speaker 1: with instead of just facing the occam's razor of a situation,

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Speaker 1: which is probably these rocks are covered in moss. Uh

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Speaker 1: it rained last night. He probably slipped and fell. Nope,

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Speaker 1: it was a blow hole covered handsome dolphin person. I

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Speaker 1: live actually probably a tenth of a mile from the

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Speaker 1: Cape Fear River, which is a real place. It's not

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Speaker 1: just a movie starring Robert de Niro and remake of

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Speaker 1: with Robert DeNiro and Nicknolty. And yeah, the the river

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Speaker 1: can absolutely be a a treacherous thing. There are drownings

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Speaker 1: around here all the time, and it looks fairly calm,

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Speaker 1: and it's not a fast moving river very you know,

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Speaker 1: not a not a super moving river compared to some

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Speaker 1: but it is where Blackbeard used to navigate his ship

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Speaker 1: the Queensland revenge and escape, you know, the British Navy

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Speaker 1: at the time, whenever, whenever he was up to up

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Speaker 1: to his Shenanigans, so his old Shenanigans yet to put

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Speaker 1: it mildly right, uh So, So basically it's it's a

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Speaker 1: very tricky place to navigate, and you know, if if

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Speaker 1: you're on a small boat or something, you can you

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Speaker 1: can very easily you know, drown out there. But I I, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's that's still that's way less cooler than coming up

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Speaker 1: with some mythological creature than than just having an accident.

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Speaker 1: It kind of makes me think of like, you know

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Speaker 1: check Tingle, uh, the Tinglers, the like, you know, like

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Speaker 1: seduced by a handsome t rex who is my boss books,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like we've been doing check Tingle things

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Speaker 1: for for decades, for four centuries, Like these Scottish people

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Speaker 1: are was like seduced to my death and a fast

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Speaker 1: moving river by a handsome horse lady. It's I love

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Speaker 1: it though they yeah, usually his ends up with some

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Speaker 1: phrase of pounded in the at the end of his

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Speaker 1: book titles. I did not think this, uh, this episode

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Speaker 1: was going to veer into Chuck Tingle territory. Well, I do.

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Speaker 1: I love Chuck Tingle. I think he's a he's a

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Speaker 1: cool guy who has got some cool ideas. I I

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Speaker 1: completely agree. I wholeheartedly endorsed Chuck Tingle. And we won't

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Speaker 1: get into the discussion. Yeah, we won't get into too

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Speaker 1: much detail about Chuck Tingle, I think, but you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's he's he writes some he writes some funny books,

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Speaker 1: and but he seems like a cool person. So I

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Speaker 1: was wondering, like, oh, like, I wonder if there's any

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Speaker 1: like kelpie myths with kangaroos and like, so I looked

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Speaker 1: for Australian kelpie and there is an Australian kelpie, but

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Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with kangaroos. Well, the all Strillian. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Australian kelpie is a breed of dog that is

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Speaker 1: a sheep dog. It's a very cute little peppo. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's a chocolate brown, medium haired sheep dog and it's

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Speaker 1: a working dog often still used to this day. Uh

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Speaker 1: on sheep farms, and so I was like, well, what

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Speaker 1: why is this dog? Why is this dog called a kelpie?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is this this dog luring sheep into a

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Speaker 1: river by the sheep? Are we about to talk about

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Speaker 1: dog boobies? No? No, luckily not. So. This breed of

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Speaker 1: dog was actually named after the Scottish kelpie that we

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Speaker 1: just discussed, because the first dog of this breed was

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Speaker 1: owned by a Scottish man living in Australia. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why he named the dog Kelpie. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he just did because he's Scottish and he's like, man,

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Speaker 1: I keep thinking about those sexy horse demons. Anyways, your

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Speaker 1: name is kelpie um and so yeah, and so it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a highly competent sheep herding dog. So that that's Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you look for Australian kelpie, that's what you're gonna find.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at this photo here. It's kind of got

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Speaker 1: the the coloration of like a chocolate Doberman a little

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Speaker 1: bit with the lighter color around the muzzle. It is

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Speaker 1: beautiful looking dog. And he he or she is surfing

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Speaker 1: on the back of some sheeping, yeah, sheep surfing, which

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Speaker 1: honestly looks super fun. Yeah. Actually, a lot of sheep

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Speaker 1: dogs do this where they kind of like moh orum

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Speaker 1: crowd surf the sheep because if they are trying to

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Speaker 1: get from the back to the front of the sheep

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Speaker 1: or or organize the sheep from the middle of the sheep,

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Speaker 1: crowd like, they need to be able to crouch surf

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Speaker 1: the sheep. So yeah, I I love I absolutely love

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Speaker 1: working dogs, watching dogs that have been trained and bred

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Speaker 1: with specific personalities to to do very specific tasks. It

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Speaker 1: is so much fun to watch a good farm dog

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Speaker 1: or a sheep dog do its thing because there is

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Speaker 1: no animal in the entire world that is more tickled

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Speaker 1: and thrilled to be doing something than one of these dogs.

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Speaker 1: It's so much fun. I'm like I in general, I

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Speaker 1: feel uneasy about dog breeding because often it's this superficial

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Speaker 1: thing of like I want a dog that looks like

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Speaker 1: a freaking bear with a pixie face and weird wrinkles everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't think that's good for the

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Speaker 1: dogs to just breed them for a specific, uh superficial appearance,

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Speaker 1: Like I want my dog to look to be pink

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Speaker 1: and not have a butt hole or something like, obviously

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Speaker 1: that's not good for the and then it doesn't fact

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Speaker 1: when Okay, to be fair, if you could, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I would just be impressed, uh, purely for the difficulty

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Speaker 1: of breeding a dog without a butthole. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Uh, I don't think that's possible. So I would,

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Speaker 1: I would, I would. I would feel very bad for

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Speaker 1: the animal and it should not know, the genes should

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Speaker 1: not carry on. But if you did manage to breed

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Speaker 1: a dog without a butth hole, like I would have

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Speaker 1: to give you a very short applause for just a

401
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Speaker 1: genius and either but nonetheless absolutely right, yeah, I mean,

402
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Speaker 1: but yeah, but with working dogs, if they're bred in

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Speaker 1: a healthy way both for their physical health and for

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Speaker 1: their mental health, where they are happy dogs, you know,

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Speaker 1: with with you know, then you know, I think that's

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Speaker 1: kind of like the ideal thing, because you're you're breeding

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Speaker 1: them to be physically healthy and then mentally healthy. As

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Speaker 1: long as like people will sometimes get sheep dogs like

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Speaker 1: for their tiny apartment or something like, that's not good

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Speaker 1: because they're not gonna be happy there. They gotta actually

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Speaker 1: have be able to have the space to do to

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Speaker 1: do these things because it's like it's fun for them

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Speaker 1: to be active and feel, you know, like they're they're

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Speaker 1: doing something. Um much like people, you know, people like

415
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Speaker 1: to have a purpose or or to have to be

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Speaker 1: able to have exercise and go out and do fun things.

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Speaker 1: So it's all about that environmental stimuli. It creates more

418
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: neurons as the dog develops. Um. That's why. Uh, enrichment

419
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: and enclosures at zoos that are you know, and I

420
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: not a huge fan of zoo. I love a good

421
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: zoo that is all about conservation and education and stuff,

422
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: but enrichment that creates more neurons and the brain is

423
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: crucial to these animals that are that are you know,

424
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: bred for for our companionship. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, no,

425
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: I agree to with with the zoos thing. It's you

426
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: have to it's it really does affect a brain development

427
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: for animals bred in captivity. If don't have enough and

428
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: real quick on the zoo topic, North Carolina, to any

429
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: listeners out there, is home to the largest walk through

430
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: zoo in the world. It is in Asheboro, North Carolina,

431
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,239
Speaker 1: and there's two ends to it. There's an African end

432
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: to it and a North American end to it. And

433
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: it is incredible, Like they have these huge, huge environments

434
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: for the animals to to uh roam around in and

435
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: it's a super fun place. And it's only like seventeen

436
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: bucks to get in the door, so it's not expensive

437
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: in any way. And they're all about conservations. So if

438
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: you ever, it's about two and a half hours away

439
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: from me. So that's the zoo that I grew up

440
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: going to primarily. Uh And if you ever are passing

441
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: through North Carolina and want to spend a day uh

442
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: getting to to see these animals up close and in

443
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: in you know, approximations of environments, that's that's a very

444
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: cool place to go to. Oh that's awesome. I love that.

445
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I mean it's so interesting though, like

446
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: how you can one topic like from kangaroos pulling people

447
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 1: into the water to kelpies and it's like there's an

448
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: Australian kelpie but it's a cool dog. That's quite the

449
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: connection there that you you even thought to to look

450
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: this up and it turns out that there was something

451
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: even called in Australia. I know, I was amazed. It's incredible.

452
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll

453
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: be back with a whole new question from another listener email,

454
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: where we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, parasites. So, Christie,

455
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: what is your feelings about parasites? What is my feelings

456
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: about parasites human or the rest of the the animal kingdom? Um?

457
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: All of them? Any of them? So human parasites, I've

458
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: known a few, I've been friends with a few that

459
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: haven't cut off throughout the years, um. But the the

460
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: rest of the parasites, I know, I've kind of had

461
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: to you know, the more I learned about the the

462
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: animal kingdom, I think, the more I've had to come

463
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: around on the concept of parasites. I realized that there

464
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: are a lot of beneficial parasites primarily you know, I

465
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: don't want to say primarily beneficial parasites, but it kind

466
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: of depends on what the parasite is doing to me,

467
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: right It kind of it's kind of you know, it's

468
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: like everything, it's it's what am I getting out of

469
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: this deal type of response. I mean to be to

470
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: be very pedantic about it. Anything that's a parasite on

471
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: your body is going to be harmful to you. So like, uh,

472
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: a parasites. UM specifically means like something that basically takes

473
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: from you and it's harmful to you and it benefits itself.

474
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: There are a lot of symbiotic relationships, different one types

475
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: of symbiotic relationships, So you can have a symbiote in

476
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: your body and it can be either good or bad. UM.

477
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: So like there's mutualism, which is like you both benefit

478
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: uh from the relationship. There's commence allism where it's benefiting

479
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: and you're not but it doesn't really hurt you at all.

480
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: And then there's a parasitism, which is that it's benefiting

481
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: from your from your sweet body juices, and it's hurting

482
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: you so real quick. Is a leech, depending on the

483
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: use of the leech, a symbia and a parasite. Like

484
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: if I was wading through a river and it latched

485
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: onto me, it would be a parasite, but if a

486
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: doctor uses it, it's a symbiate. That is so interesting.

487
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: I've never thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right.

488
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: So like in its natural environment, a leech is a

489
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: parasite because it's sucking your blood and that's not good

490
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: for you. But then if you take it, it's like

491
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: a man made symbiotic relationship. That's so interesting. Yeah, if

492
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: you actually have it in a medical setting, like let's

493
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: say a current day medical setting, because like leeches used

494
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: to be used in ways that they thought it was beneficial,

495
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: but it wasn't. But now like we actually do have

496
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: say like um, maggots, their medical magic maggots, their medical

497
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: leeches that are used in very specific circumstances with like uh,

498
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: debriding tissue or like with leeches, Like I think it's

499
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: something to do with like getting circulation back in a

500
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: like getting blood flow into a part of the body

501
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: that's not getting blood flow again. They it's very rarely used,

502
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: but like they do use them occasionally and um, but yeah,

503
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: in those circumstances they do, it transforms from a parasitic

504
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: relationship to a mutualistic symbiotic relationship. That is such an

505
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: interesting point. I've just never thought of it that way.

506
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: And some people have pet leeches adorable, I believe one

507
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus. I don't know if she's been a guest

508
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: before she had she has, she has, and and I

509
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: believe we talked a little bit about her pet leach.

510
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: I listened to her story of her pet leach and

511
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: I thought it was heartwarming. Uh. But yeah, so they're

512
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: in bloss that like, parasites can be many different things,

513
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: So can be anything from a leech to a tape

514
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: worm can also be birds can be parasites. There can

515
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: be brood parasites. So a cuckoo bird is a brood parasite.

516
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: It benefits from other birds nests and it lays its

517
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,239
Speaker 1: egg in the nest. Uh. And it it's bad for

518
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: the other bird species, but it's good for the cuckoo.

519
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: So even a cute little baby bird can be a parasite.

520
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: So the idea of a parasite is not just like

521
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: a worm thing with like teeth. Uh. It's many different,

522
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: many different things. But we are fortunately going to talk

523
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: about some of the grosser parasites with this question, Lucky Day.

524
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: So here is the question. Um, Hi, Katie, My now

525
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: thirteen year old son introduced me to your show a

526
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: few years ago while he was deep into a bird phase,

527
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: and I've been a fan of the pot ever since.

528
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: I'm not a creationist by any means, but I do

529
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: have a few questions about the mechanics of evolution. Uh.

530
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: There is one specifically that I'm hoping someone can help answer,

531
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 1: how the heck do parasites do anything? Evolutionarily speaking, evolution

532
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: is commonly explained as a series of adaptations over time

533
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: that are passed on from generation to generation. I get

534
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: Darwin's finches for example. That makes sense, But how did

535
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: parasites pass on their parasitic behavior from one generation to

536
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: the next. Take zombie snails for example. Evolutionarily speaking, how

537
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: did that flat worm discover to get into a snail?

538
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: Drive the snail to a prime location for a bird

539
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: to see it, learned to pulsate in the snail's eyestalks

540
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: in order to advertise itself to birds, survive being eaten

541
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: by the bird, then release its eggs into the birds

542
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: so that the bird's droppings lead to the continuation of

543
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: that species. And almost all parasites have equally improbable life cycles.

544
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't understand how this came to be within the

545
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: framework of evolution, and I'm wondering if you've heard of

546
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: any evolutionary biologists discuss or write about this. How are

547
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: parasitic behaviors created and passed on? Thank you for your

548
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: great job on the pot and this is from limb

549
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: Uh and thank you. This is an excellent question. You're

550
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: not alone. A lot of people, a lot of scientists,

551
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: a lot of evolutionary biologists, find this very fascinating, very interesting,

552
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: because it is so surprising when you see such a

553
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: specific evolutionary behavior, like you explained with the zombie snail

554
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: or the it's a it's a flat worm that causes

555
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: this like zombie snail to happen. It's actually called lucochloridium flatworm.

556
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: And it will talk a little bit more about the

557
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: details of that later, but yeah, no, you're you are

558
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: you are that That description that you gave Limb is

559
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: pretty accurate. Uh, and it is. It's mind blowing. But

560
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: first I kind of want to talk about evolution in

561
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: general because I think sometimes when you talk about evolution,

562
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: there's a sense of like there's a long term intentionality,

563
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: so like an animal wants to evolve in a certain

564
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: way or something. I know. I know, like you don't

565
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: necessarily literally believe that, but as humans are, our psychology

566
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: is so attuned to intention because we're intentional creatures, Like

567
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: we can plan for the future and say like when

568
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: I grow up, I want to be on a podcast

569
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: and talk about parasites, Like we we can think about

570
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: the future. Um. But an animal who's evolving can't think

571
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: about the future of evolutions like I'm It doesn't think

572
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: like I'm going to evolve a certain way, and not

573
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: even evolution, like evolution itself has no desires or intention

574
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: Like evolution isn't like I'm going to make a weird

575
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: uh snail parasite. It's all based on just a few

576
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: very simple rules, and those simple rules creates this uh

577
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: exponential complexity. There's only direction in hindsight, right, you can

578
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: only see the direction that it came from in hindsight.

579
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: The rest of it is just uh is. Honestly, it's

580
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: like blind luck is to whatever allowed it to pass

581
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: its genes on. So what you have to look at,

582
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: I think with with something like the zombie snail, which

583
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: I cannot stop staring at the gift that you sent

584
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: me in this Google file, because it is it is

585
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 1: like the hypnotade from from from Futurama. I believe the

586
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: the snail. It's so fascinating looking. It does not look

587
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 1: like real. It looks like a toy almost, right. Yeah,

588
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: So you have in its ice stocks, you know how,

589
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: like snails normally have these little ice stocks. Ye, cutie

590
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: little snails. The these paris citic flatworms. Um, those pulsating

591
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: things are actually brood sacks, so they're full of a

592
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: bunch of these parasites and they are they they grow

593
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: into the snail like through the snails like becomes longer

594
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: and longer and actually grow into their eyes talks, and

595
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: these things are pulsating and it looks like and there

596
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: are these different colors like green and sort of this

597
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: reddish brown, and it makes the snail look like a

598
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: weird techno party snail in the grossest way. And this

599
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: is very attractive to birds who will then eat the snail.

600
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: The flatworm completes its life cycle inside the bird mates

601
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: and then lays more brood sacks that comes out in

602
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: the bird's feces and it's poop. And then the snail

603
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: will eat some leaves that has this bird poop on it,

604
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: and then they unintentionally ingest this parasite and this horrible

605
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: cycle starts again. Amazing are these now, these these eyes stalks?

606
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: Are they mimicking a certain type of caterpillar that these

607
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: birds might might appreciate. Yeah, I don't know if it's

608
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: a specific caterpillar, but it's definitely got the look of

609
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: a caterpillar or some some kind of undulating grub that

610
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: the bird would be interested in eating. So yeah, it's

611
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. Um And normally I think these snails

612
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: would avoid light, but the flatworms makes them less avoidance

613
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: of light, so which is great for for the flatworms

614
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: because then that makes it more likely that they're going

615
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: to get eaten by a bird. But the idea that like, well,

616
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: how okay, so so evolution basically has two basic rules

617
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: that you have to follow in order to pass on

618
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: your jeans, like don't die and uh mate, or pass

619
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: on your genes like reproduce. You can reproduce asexually. You

620
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: can clone yourself and pass on a full copy of yourself,

621
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: or you can reproduce by sex and pass on a

622
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: partial copy of yourself. And you know, if you pass

623
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: on your genes and you don't die before you pass

624
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: on your genes, you're the winner, uh like, And then

625
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: your genes get passed on. And the reason that's those

626
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: are the rules. It's just genes that get passed on

627
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: get passed on. It's as simple as that, which is,

628
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's sort of a weird kind of

629
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: circular logic. But that's how it works. So if if

630
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: the genes make the animal live in a way that

631
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: gets the genes passed on, the genes get passed on,

632
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: it makes more of that animal. So I think in

633
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: terms of like, well, how can something so simple, such

634
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: a simple kind of binary rule, like you're either dead

635
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: or you're alive, and you pass on your genes, Like,

636
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: how can that create such complexity. There's a old computer

637
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: game called John Conway's Game of Life. Have you ever

638
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: heard of that? I have not, No, it's it's an

639
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: old one. It's uh, it's I think kind of before

640
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: our time. But it was a very simple computer game

641
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: where you would have these cells, which are these like

642
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: pixelated squares, interact with each other based on only three rules.

643
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: And this was like one of a really early computer

644
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: game because this is like right when computers were starting.

645
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: He programmed in just these three rules, which was any

646
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: live cell with two or three live neighbors will survive.

647
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: Any dead cell with three live neighbors will become a

648
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: live cell, and any other live cells, uh, like all

649
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: other live cells will die in the next generation. Um,

650
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: so all other dead cells will stay dead. So basically

651
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: if you have a if you have one of these

652
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: little pixels and it's surrounded by uh, two three living pixels,

653
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: it'll become alive or stay alive, otherwise it dies. And

654
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: that's simple, simple rule. Uh creates incredible complexity in this game,

655
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: like these these beautiful patterns will emerge. You'll have things

656
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: like gliders, which are like these little like they almost

657
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: look like little tiny birds that like fly across the screen.

658
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: And there's no intentionality behind it. The pixels don't know

659
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: what they're doing. The programmer all he did was program

660
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: these rules and he doesn't have any designs on like

661
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: I want to create these things. It's just from those

662
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 1: rules creates such incredible complexity that I think, like computer

663
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: scientists and mathematicians are still like studying this stuff, like

664
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: to this day. I certainly don't understand it that well.

665
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: It's it's it's that's how complex it becomes. It's just

666
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: it's mind blowing. One of my favorite, one of my

667
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: favorite animals I know on I believe your last episode.

668
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: I believe it was with Maura Wilson Rude. You talked

669
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: about just the sheer volume like for like turtles Sea Turtles,

670
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: right you you have to have a large number of

671
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: of offspring because the mortality rate is something like. One

672
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: of my favorite animals is the Mola mola, the sunfish,

673
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: and it's the largest bony fish in the world. And

674
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: one of my favorite facts about it is at one

675
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: time they will lay three hundred million eggs. And that

676
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: is yeah, and and and the this thing barely can swim.

677
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: It loves the sunbathe that it allows. You know, seagulls

678
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: out at sea will land on this thing and pick

679
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: off parasites on the side of it. It eats jellyfish

680
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: by all. It's it's and I hate to say this

681
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: because this is me anthropomorphasizing it. I think I got

682
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: that word right. It's a dumb anthropomorphizing thank you. It's

683
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: kind of a dumb looking fish. Like it doesn't it

684
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: looks like it's not all the way made yet, right,

685
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 1: It's just like kind of cuts off at one point. Uh.

686
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: It looks like you like took a fish and just

687
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: like flattened it into a fish pancake and then exactly

688
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: ocean It's like, I guess I'm a living pancake exactly.

689
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: That's it's basically what it is. It's a giant, swimming,

690
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: very peaceful, living pancake. I love the thing though, and

691
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: and that's one of them. Again, that's one of my

692
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: favorite facts about it is just the sheer. One of

693
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: the reasons this thing has has uh is still around

694
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: to this day is because of the sheer volume of

695
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: eggs that it lays at any given time, and it's

696
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: young that hatch from those are teeny tiny. They go

697
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: from being like almost plankton sized to being this huge fish.

698
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of the zooplankton in the ocean

699
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: uh is larva or or the babies of a lot

700
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: of bigger of like fish, of other of other sea creatures.

701
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: And it's just like you wouldn't realize that this like

702
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: almost like microscopic like thing is like a baby, and

703
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: like there's massive amounts of zooplankton in the ocean. Yeah,

704
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: I love that fact. It's funny you bring that up

705
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: because I was actually thinking about talking about the sunfish

706
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: on on the brood thing just because they have so

707
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: many babies at once. But yeah, and so what's interesting

708
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: about that is that kind of is one of the

709
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: reasons that evolution can produce such incredible complexity is the

710
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 1: sheer amount of time and scale of animals being born

711
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: is hard to comprehend. So for something like a flat worm,

712
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: it's not just evolving over millions of years, but there

713
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: are billions and billions of generations of these flatworms because

714
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: they breed it very fast rates. So you know, something

715
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 1: like this, this luco Chloridium flatworm. It's like I said,

716
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: like those things you see inside of the snail pulsating,

717
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: that's not just one flatworm, that's a whole rude sack

718
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,959
Speaker 1: of a bunch of flow worms. And so in each

719
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: generation you have like like each flatworm creates like hundreds

720
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: of more flat worms, and they do that, you know,

721
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: multiple times, uh and a year, and then like you

722
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: just you're you have an incomprehensible number of these horrible

723
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: little flatworms reducing over millions of years. And like you know,

724
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: you run a simple program like the game of Life

725
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: just for a few hours, you get these incredibly complex patterns.

726
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: You run this computer program of just like you, if

727
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: you can pass on your genes, you can pass on

728
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: your genes and you make more of yourself you are.

729
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of inevitable that you're gonna get complexity.

730
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the the universe, where it's like

731
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: you have some simple rules for atoms interacting with each other,

732
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: and from that you just inevitably get like galaxies and

733
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: planets and these incredibly complex things in the universe, which

734
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: is what gave rise to the idea UM And you know,

735
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: not to get too in depth into this topic, but

736
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: intelligent design, right, it's it's why we we look at

737
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: something this specific and we say, Okay, there's no way

738
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: somebody didn't design this. Uh, you know, there wasn't There

739
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: wasn't a creator. But like you said, the sheer incomprehensible

740
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: volume of genetic lines that are happening at any given

741
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: time is something that we can't we can't fathom, we

742
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: cannot understand, and the complex situations that allows. Okay, because

743
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: of the slight variation and color of these genes, this

744
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: gene mutation, this offers uh an advantage that past generation

745
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: has never had. And now suddenly the population explodes because

746
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: of that one tiny, tiny genetic mutation. Yeah. And I

747
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm sympathetic to people who can like believe

748
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: in intelligent design. Obviously, I I think that's right, copletely wrong. Uh.

749
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: And but I do understand why you would think that way,

750
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: because even I, like, even though I've been like thinking

751
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: about parasites for many years, like and in appreciating parasites

752
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: for many years and letting them use my body as

753
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: a hotel now, but like I still when I read

754
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: about like, well, you know, here's the orb weaver spider

755
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: parasitoid wasp that lays its larva on the spider and

756
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: it controls its brain. It makes it. We've a little

757
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: little nursery for the baby larva, and and then it

758
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: eats it. And it's like, how this is diabolical? Like

759
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: this is how did they? Uh? Yeah, it's incredible, and

760
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: especially these ones that have these complex life cycles of

761
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: like well, the toxoplasmosis Gandhia, I like, goes inside the rat,

762
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: makes the rat like I think a cat is cool

763
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: and fun and sexually attracted to the cat, and goes

764
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 1: up to the cat and cats like cool, free lunch.

765
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: That's horny for me. And then it eats the rat

766
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: and then this and then the taxoplasmosis Gonda breathes inside

767
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: the cat and comes out and cap whop, and then

768
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 1: and then in fix her outs again and it happens

769
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 1: against like how like how did it know to do this? Well,

770
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: it didn't. It's uh yeah, it just you know, these

771
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: random mutations that happen will produce a slightly slight alteration

772
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: in its behavior that uh. Sometimes you know, there's both

773
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: like these very minor steps and evolution. Sometimes they are

774
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: like larger steps. I think they're both you know, involved

775
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: in evolutionary processes. Um. But for instance, so like let's

776
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: talk about like what and there's obviously there there is

777
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: a lot of research into specific parasites, like I know

778
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: with the orb weaver parasite, the parasitoid wasp larva, which

779
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: is like a little maggot that will turn into a

780
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: wasp um but it it lashes onto the orb weaver spider,

781
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: and they were trying to figure out, well, how does

782
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: it make the spider uh stop weaving this beautiful web

783
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: and start weaving a cocoon for the larva to live

784
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: in while the spider dies. Like it's it's just awful,

785
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: very diabolical. But uh, the and the it's like because like,

786
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: how can it make such a complex behavior of the spider.

787
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: How does it? Well, it turns out the spider does

788
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: do this behavior when it is molting. So the spider

789
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: goes through these molding phases where it's like very vulnerable

790
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: while it's molting, and so it will weave itself a

791
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: strong web to protect it. UH. That will and it's

792
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: also more visible to like uh, birds and stuff because

793
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't want to like with its web it does.

794
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't want it to be too visible so that

795
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: it like catches things before it's cocoon. It wants it

796
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: to be more visible so that things don't run into

797
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: it and knock it down while it's in this vulnerable state.

798
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: So the larva, the parasitoid larva UH, some kind of

799
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: chemical that it excretes triggers the hormones in the spider

800
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: to to make it think that it's molting. And obviously

801
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: this is something that the larva has no idea it's doing,

802
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: but it just so happens that like probably it started

803
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: out just being happy enough to eat the spiders slowly

804
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: eat it. But maybe some kind of digestive enzyme or

805
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: something also triggers that that spider's hormonal response. And that's

806
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: like that specific chemical or is something that researchers are

807
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: looking into. And so like when people are interested in

808
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: the evolutionary history of parasites. Researchers look into like, Okay,

809
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: how does this actually work? We don't even know necessarily,

810
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: like what this chemical is, how it works exactly, but

811
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: like their look, they're researching it like right now. And

812
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: the thing that most folks and understandably kind of out

813
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: of sight, out of mind situation, you don't see all

814
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: the times this failed throughout the court. You know, the

815
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions, if not hundreds of billions of times

816
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: where the wrong chemical got secreted which caused a behavior

817
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: where the the parasite was not able to pass on.

818
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: It's it's genetics. So that that's another thing too, is

819
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: when we see again it's a matter of comprehension and

820
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: our peon little minds not able to uh to to

821
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: wrap wrap around the sheer volume of attempts, of of

822
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: failed attempts here to where it got to the point

823
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: whatever you're looking at, whatever form of incredible evolutionary biology

824
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: you're looking at, is the result of so many failed

825
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: attempts that you'll you'll it's a it's a number that's

826
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: impossible to to probably even I don't know if I

827
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 1: don't know if science can even count that high. It's

828
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: it's amazing I can count that high. I can do it. Yeah, No,

829
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, no, absolutely, that's absolutely correct. It's our brand.

830
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: It's not even that we're dumb. It's just that our

831
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 1: brains don't work on that scale. Like we don't live.

832
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 1: We don't live millions of years, so our brains only work,

833
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, on the scale of maybe like a hundred years.

834
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: Is you know where we where we generally cap off at.

835
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean it's kind of like one

836
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: of those you know, like those like learn to draw

837
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: things and it's like draw two ovals. Now you've got

838
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 1: a bunny, and it's like this detailed bunny. You're like, what,

839
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how we got from the two ovals

840
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: and a few scratch marks to the whole freaking bunny. Uh.

841
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: And that's kind of like what evolution is, Like, we

842
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: don't it's hard to see all the steps that you

843
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: get to to get the to get the bunny or

844
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: snail parasite. But yeah, in terms of specifically this, uh,

845
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: the louco chloridium flat warm. I wonder with a lot

846
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: of these parasites where they have their life cycle, like

847
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: you start out in a bird and then you get

848
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: pooped out and you get eaten by snail and that

849
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: gets eaten by a bird. Blah blah blah. I wonder

850
00:52:53,960 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: if it's like these like an accidental case of um

851
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 1: my assis, which is where you actually it's not necessarily

852
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: a parasite, but you eat something and then it's like, oh,

853
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 1: well I wasn't a parasite, but now I'm in this

854
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: environment where the only way to keep living is like

855
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: to feed off of where I am right now. And

856
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: so like uh accent told my my a sis uh

857
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: is like you you eat something like a larva or something,

858
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: and it's typically not a parasite, but now it's inside

859
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: your body and it's like, well, I'm gonna eat where

860
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: I am uh, and then you can like poop it out.

861
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: And so if this happens, like say you have this

862
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: flat worm saying it's eaten by a bird on accident,

863
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: it's not a parasite yet it's like hey, like I'm

864
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: just trying to live my life and now I'm inside

865
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: a bird. Well, hey, I see another one that got eaten,

866
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 1: Like we're gonna mate. That's great. Then it gets pooped

867
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: out and then it's like, well, our our eggs got

868
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: pooped out, okay, and then that gets eaten by chance

869
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: by a snail and then they're like in side the snail, like, well,

870
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: I guess now we're here, like we're gonna you know,

871
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: like be be in the snail and like continue to develop,

872
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: and then that gets eaten by aber and it's like,

873
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: well this worked out well. Like now we're back in

874
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: the bird and we're in a single spar again, and

875
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: we'll mate and make more of us. And then you

876
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: start to get mutations and again, like you said, most

877
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: mutations are bad, Like most mutations like are a game over,

878
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:27,919
Speaker 1: but once in a while they're go. It's like, why

879
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: viruses don't just like uh, immediately turn into just world

880
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: ending deadly killer viruses. Most mutations on a virus is

881
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: going to be bad for the virus. So mutating virus, yeah,

882
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily a good thing for the virus. It's

883
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: just once in a while it's good. And that's why

884
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: it's important everyone gets vaccinated because the more chances we

885
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: give something to mutate them more likely it's going to

886
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 1: turn into a mutation that benefits that organism. In this case,

887
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: for viruses. That's bad for us. We don't want everybody

888
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: get their their vaccine as soon as possible. Yeah that Uh,

889
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: let's let's put a stop to opportunistic parasitism. Like you're

890
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: like you're talking about where you know, these things just

891
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: find themselves in a uh well damn, this environment is

892
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: a lot cozier than my last one. And uh and

893
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: I got no choice but to hang out and here,

894
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, longer than this host is gonna want me to.

895
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, that's that's a bad news. So yeah,

896
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta put a stop to this. If

897
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: there's any position your podcast takes, uh, it is to

898
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: stop opportunistic parasitism, you know, plant plant your flag in

899
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: that take Katie, if I feel like some parasites are

900
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: cool as as not in my body, yes, exactly exactly

901
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: like like again, uh, situational symbiotic paris no not, I'm

902
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:55,879
Speaker 1: gonna is the general term for anything you're living with

903
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: in some way. So so uh if if if you

904
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: can take a parasite and make it a symbiot, a symbiote,

905
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 1: a mutualistic symbiote, I own a mutualistic symbiote. I only

906
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: know that word, by the way, from Spider Man, because venom, venom,

907
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: and carnage. We're we're, we're. I love that. I love

908
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: learning about science from comics. Yeah, it's it's the best.

909
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, that's primarily where I know that word from.

910
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: And then of course the famous example of like the

911
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: c an enemy and the clown fish, the mutual mutual relationship. Yeah,

912
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,959
Speaker 1: so uh yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, I mean yeah,

913
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: and so, like you can imagine with a flatworm, it's

914
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: like it's already getting eaten by snails and birds on accident,

915
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: and then it starts to get these little mutations that

916
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: maybe makes it a little better, like at getting in

917
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: in the one and so you just start and now

918
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: it's to the point where it's like, man, this devious

919
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: flatworm has this whole plan about how to make the

920
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: snail this like uh psychotropic looking thing that's really heapetizing

921
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: to the bird. And it's like it had no idea.

922
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: It was just like I'm inside this now. I if

923
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,359
Speaker 1: I can stay alive, I'm gonna stay alive. I mean,

924
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: flatworms don't have brains. They don't think thoughts, I don't

925
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: think exactly. Well they actually that's not true flatworms have

926
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: I believe, well, it might not necessarily be a brain.

927
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: It might be like a neural bundle ganglia. Yeah, like

928
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: a ganglia. I'd have to look it up whether or

929
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: not it's actually classified as a brain or not. It's

930
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: very basic, you know, they only have a few neurons

931
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: to rub together. Really grasping at some of the some

932
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: of this vocabulary. I took marine technology. I have a

933
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: degree on marine technology back when I was college age.

934
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: So we studied flat worms and and you know, like

935
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: sea creatures and stuff and and very simple organisms you

936
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: know on up until the you know, uh, mammals, marine

937
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: mammals and stuff. So um, some of this is scratching,

938
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: scratching those it's yeah, I have that scratched in all

939
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: very long time. So I'm loving all of these these topics.

940
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, the like the color of the snail, Like again,

941
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: if you can find this gift of this, yes, So

942
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: the color that this thing is it looks like you said,

943
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: a snail out of rave, right, it looks like it's

944
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: skits and ties or something. Yeah, exactly. It's doing that

945
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: pulsating thing to like like there's a like like a

946
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: DJ Daniel is DJing the party that that this thing

947
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: is at right, you should suggest this to him, give

948
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: him a hey, you ever try one of these in

949
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: your sets? He would probably put that on the screen

950
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: behind him when he does a zoom set or something. Um. So,

951
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: these colors, the number of times that this flatworm reproduced

952
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: in this snail and it wasn't those colors is like

953
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: billions of times. Except and then there was one accidental

954
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: mutation of the genetic code to where it add did

955
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: like a ring of orange or a ring of purple

956
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: to these eye stalks, and the birds started being attracted

957
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: exactly what wild for it. And then by accident. It's

958
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: not like they got that response and thought, oh ship,

959
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: we need to change another genetic No, no, no, no

960
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: brain power here you're thinking about it. It's just just survived. Yeah.

961
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: They just ended up exactly living longer. Exactly if you live,

962
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: you live, is just kind of like the whole thing

963
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: with if you live and and pop out some progeny,

964
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: that's it. That's all you gotta do. Um. But yeah,

965
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: I hope that kind of like puts things into perspective,

966
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: like how you can get such incredible, complex, devious little

967
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: parasites from such a simple rule like if you ran

968
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: if you ran a computer program for billions of years,

969
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: who knows what kind of Wait a minute, what if

970
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:55,919
Speaker 1: for the computer program? No? No, what if for the simulation?

971
00:59:55,960 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: The whole time blowing my mind, Katie. It's honestly, I

972
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: don't like if we're a simulation. I don't care. It's fine.

973
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: It's like the same thing, right, yea me either. I

974
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: still got I still got bills to pay. I still

975
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: like to exactly. Wow, if there was ever a response

976
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,439
Speaker 1: to the we're living in a simulation theory, that that's

977
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: it right there, and I don't care. Peza still tastes

978
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: good that that's all that matters. Christie, have you heard of, uh,

979
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: the way that everything is becoming crabs, that all things

980
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: become crabs, eventually all things crabs, Eventually we all become crabs.

981
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: I don't think i've heard now. I am familiar with

982
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: a certain gift that gets circulated whenever, maybe like somebody

983
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: who's of of you know, not maybe not very liked

984
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: online or something, people start dropping a certain advancing crabs

985
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: celebrating Yeah, someone you know, maybe maybe like an awful

986
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: politician or just terrible person, right, yeah, when when someone

987
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: when someone loses at something, uh, and they're a bad person,

988
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: the dancing crab gift definitely comes into play. Um, Well,

989
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: it's that's very relevant because so carsonization is this the

990
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: thing that happens amongst crustaceans and other arthropods, which is,

991
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: like you know, Arthur prods includes things like spiders and um,

992
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 1: but like it's mostly with crustaceans, is that they keep

993
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: independently evolving into crab shape. Like you have the true crabs,

994
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 1: but then you have something like more related to a

995
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: lobster that just independently starts to evolve into a crab shape.

996
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: And you even have spiders that will evolve into a

997
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: crab shape. And so it's so common that there's actually

998
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: a term for it called carsonization, which is when something

999
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: just starts to go into crab shape because apparently crab

1000
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: shape is really good. And we actually had an episode

1001
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: on this if you want to hear more about carsonization.

1002
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: But I bring it up because I've got this great

1003
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: listener question. Um who writes Hi, Katie, I love listening

1004
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: to the podcast because I love animals and all the

1005
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: gifts you have on the show. Uh, And I have

1006
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: a question for you. Are there different forms of evolution

1007
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: that are similar to carsonization where there are multiple versions

1008
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: of the same body type, Like if a reptile moves

1009
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: to a body of water, it'll evolve into a croc

1010
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: or a bird will become flightless if X and Y happens.

1011
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: Or could it be that crabs are the ultimate life

1012
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 1: form and humans will inevitably evolve into them? L O L.

1013
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, Enrique, Thank you so much, Enrique. This is

1014
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: a great question. I love it, it is and you're

1015
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: absolutely right. Yes, this happens a lot actually, where there

1016
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: is just some kind of animal form that multiple animals

1017
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: related or unrelated, decide this is this is it. I

1018
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: love this. I love this shape. Of course, when I

1019
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: say decide, obviously I'm speaking facetiously. They don't decide anything.

1020
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: But you know, nature loves certain forms of animal uh.

1021
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: And this is called both. This is called either convergent evolution,

1022
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: so these are like animals who are unrelated developing similar

1023
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: forms or parallel evolution, so animals share a relatively recent

1024
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: common ancestor, but then they independently evolve the same characteristics. Uh.

1025
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: And it's so fascinating whenever this happens the first one.

1026
01:03:49,800 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: I feel like our mammalian version of crabs carsonization is moles. Molarization, Uh,

1027
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 1: nothing to do with teeth. Also, I completely thought when

1028
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: you were saying carsonization, I was thinking, like Johnny Carson's

1029
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: last name. So I have no idea how any of

1030
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: this stuff is spelled. But molar ization. I love that

1031
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: name already. It's probably like linguists don't like me saying

1032
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: that because I don't think a Mueller and well, maybe

1033
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: they share a root. I don't know. They certainly don't

1034
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:31,840
Speaker 1: share a root in my mouth. Dent we're bringing dental

1035
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 1: humor back. God, I can't wait to go to the dentist, Like,

1036
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: once I'm fully vaccinated, get those suckers clean. I I

1037
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: kind of this is so weird and I feel like

1038
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: it makes me, I don't know, unnerving for people to

1039
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: hear this. I like going to the dentist me too. Okay,

1040
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:54,919
Speaker 1: you do enjoy that, I do. I mean I don't

1041
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: obviously don't want to get a cavity filled or a

1042
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: procedure done, but just the teeth cleaning. I like that smooth,

1043
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: smooth feeling on my teeth. You want to hear something

1044
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: even weirder. I actually have a home dental kit with

1045
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: like the little picks and stuff. Okay, I have that too,

1046
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: do you really? Yes? I bought it for the pandemic

1047
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, I need to I need to

1048
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: clean my teeth, like I'm going a hold over a

1049
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: year without getting my teeth professionally clean. Uh. And so

1050
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: yeah I got. I got like with a little rubber

1051
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: thingy and the little scrapy doodog, and like a mirror

1052
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: that I never used because I can't with my two hands.

1053
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: Yeah I can't. I the visual like this spatial ability

1054
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: to know which direction to go while looking into two

1055
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: mirrors is something I can't wrap my brain around. Because

1056
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: I love I love getting the plaque. The with the

1057
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: build up is called calculus. When it turns hard um

1058
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: on you, it's because of a Is it because it's

1059
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: like calcium build up or no? I think it's because

1060
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: it's as hard as the math that it's named after.

1061
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: Hum baby, we're bringing it back, bringing it back. And

1062
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: and speaking of of of teeth, some of these moles

1063
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: are incredible looking. Oh we're going to talk about these

1064
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: moles teeth. You better believe it. So moles keep evolving

1065
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: and they're not even necessarily moles. So uh, there are

1066
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: a family of animals that are moles, like true moles,

1067
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: um like things like the Eastern mole found in eastern

1068
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: North America. Uh. And this is the only one we're

1069
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: talking about that is actually a member of the mole family.

1070
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: And this is like, this is, you know, like the

1071
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: mole from what's it called Wind and the Willows. I'm

1072
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: struggling to think of other popular media where you have

1073
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: a mole in it. You have a mole, I'm not familiar.

1074
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: I know the name that you just said, but I

1075
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,959
Speaker 1: don't know anything about that as it's the one where,

1076
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: like it's where Mr. Toad's Wild Ride comes from. I think, oh, yeah, okay,

1077
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: so the mole is wearing like a little outfit, Yeah,

1078
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: a little waistcout waistcoat, vest things. I can picture it

1079
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: in my mind. But they're those little they're those little

1080
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: fuzzy grayish black, blind mostly blind mammal. And it's found

1081
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: all over the world, but like in in North America.

1082
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: I think there are some European moles as well, Old

1083
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: World moles as they're called, uh, and New World moles.

1084
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: They have like a gray coat. They burrow into soft

1085
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,959
Speaker 1: earth and they eat insects for the either the old

1086
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: ones the Old World ones are Italian. Correct? Is that

1087
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,959
Speaker 1: is that the difference between the two. They live Old

1088
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: world is like they live anywhere in uh Eurasia basically

1089
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 1: okay okay uh. And then uh they their eyes are

1090
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 1: mostly nonfunctional. They're kind of like grown over skin. Maybe

1091
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 1: they can detect a little bit of light some species

1092
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:02,280
Speaker 1: of moles uh. And they have small sharp teeth with

1093
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: slightly enlarged incisors, so those front teeth, but not not

1094
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: really they're all these like little pointy teeth. But they

1095
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: do have huge digging claws for digging through the earth. Yeah,

1096
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 1: they're they're their hands for claws, I guess. I don't know,

1097
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:21,440
Speaker 1: but they look kind of like hands though there there's

1098
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: no hair on them or anything. They're they're very pink,

1099
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: which I imagine. Uh. And that the claws are are

1100
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: huge on these things. There, man, there their borderline. They're

1101
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 1: they're in this uncanny valley of being super cute and

1102
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:43,719
Speaker 1: really freaky looking, straddling that that bridge. Perfectly. Star nosed

1103
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 1: moles are freaky because they have that they have a

1104
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 1: nose that has like tendrils on it, and it actually

1105
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: helps them since vibrations in the earth because they don't

1106
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,719
Speaker 1: rely too much on their eyesight. The only thing any

1107
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: mold species really uses their eyesight forested, hecked light and

1108
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: dark uh. And then they will rely on vibrations in

1109
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: the earth to sense their prey or to sense threats.

1110
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: And having like the that star knows uh both like

1111
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's both for the sense of smell but

1112
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:19,919
Speaker 1: also to sense more vibrations uh. And so it's really sensitive.

1113
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: But it looks like like their face exploded. It's very

1114
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 1: weird looking. But there are a number of other animals

1115
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: that look like their moles. They're not technically related. They

1116
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: are not in the mole family. Um. There is the

1117
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,959
Speaker 1: golden mole, which is found in the deserts of South Africa,

1118
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 1: and despite its name, it is not a mole at all.

1119
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 1: It evolved independently. Uh. It is very cute. It's got

1120
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: a light golden coat. Uh. It burrows in sand instead

1121
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: of earth, and it eats insects much like the eastern

1122
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 1: mole uh. And it doesn't form permanent burrows, but it

1123
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: swims through the sand like a little sand shark. It

1124
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: is really fun. They look it's like a bugs Bunny

1125
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: cartoon where bugs Bunny is like exactly like that but

1126
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: in sand. Uh and it is eyelis. Its skin has

1127
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: grown over its non functional eyes, and it uses vibrations

1128
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: entirely to see under under the earth, and it's sense

1129
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 1: of smells, so just very similar to the mole. It

1130
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: also has big digging claws that it uses, and and

1131
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 1: and hind legs as well that that it can use

1132
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: to like uh, to travel through the sand. So again,

1133
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: very similar to to the eastern mole. And its teeth

1134
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: are very similar as well. So it's got small sharp

1135
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: teeth with slightly enlarged incisors but just a little like

1136
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: needle like teeth that it can snatch an insect with.

1137
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: And it's got no external ears like like the eastern moles.

1138
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: Um just kind of it's got ear holes, but it's

1139
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,719
Speaker 1: just like there's fur over it. There's no little mouse

1140
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 1: ears or anything on it. So are these mole and

1141
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: mole like creatures are they using basically their entire body

1142
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 1: to pick up on vibrations like uh is kind of

1143
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: are they? For lack of a better way of explaining,

1144
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: are they one giant ear drum. I mean, it's interesting.

1145
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if they use every part of their

1146
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: body to pick up on vibrations, but certainly more than

1147
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: just like their feet or their nose. Like I think

1148
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: that they've got like whiskers and hairs that they can

1149
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 1: use to pick up on vibrations. I think they get

1150
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: it through their nose and through their feet as well,

1151
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: So I think multiple part of their bodies they can

1152
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: use to sense vibration. Uh so, yeah, yeah, they are.

1153
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 1: They are kind of like even though it seems like

1154
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: they lack sensory organs in terms of their eyes, like

1155
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 1: they are making up for it for converting other body

1156
01:11:54,880 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: parts into sensory organs. They're the daredevil of the animal exactly.

1157
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: He should be called Moleman. He really should. I feel

1158
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: like there is a Moman comic book character, maybe not

1159
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: in the Marvel or DC units, the Simpsons guy his Moleman. Yeah,

1160
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 1: maybe that's what I'm thinking. Maybe that that actually probably

1161
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: is exactly exactly what I'm thinking of. There's another mole

1162
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: which is not really a mole, called the marsupial mole,

1163
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 1: who is not a mole. Uh it is uh found

1164
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: in Australia. It looks uncannily similar to the golden mole,

1165
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: who again looks pretty similar to uh the Eastern mole.

1166
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 1: It also has golden fur like the golden mole. It

1167
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: also has pink little nose, little claws. UH. It also

1168
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: burrows in sand. It also swims through the sand just

1169
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 1: like the golden mole. UH. It's eyes are also nonfunctional

1170
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 1: and covered in skin. It also has large digging claws.

1171
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: It also has small, pointy teeth, although their their teeth

1172
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: are a little blunter than the golden mole and the

1173
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 1: Eastern mole UH, and their claws are a little more

1174
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: side like, so they're a little longer, a little sharper looking.

1175
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: They also has no external ears. They are very similar

1176
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: to the golden mole. They're not even on the same continent.

1177
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: Golden moles are found in the deserts of South Africa

1178
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: and marsupial moles are found in Australia. And they did

1179
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 1: not like. They didn't like get split like when you

1180
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: know Pangaea split or something. They they evolved independently of

1181
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:37,720
Speaker 1: each other, complet completely independently. I am looking up additional

1182
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: photos because the photo in the Google doc it's it's eating. Uh,

1183
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: it's got like half of a lizard in its mouth,

1184
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 1: and it's hard to really get a grasp on where

1185
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: even the quote unquote face is this thing. It's it's

1186
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: literally it. There's like a pink hub on the front,

1187
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: which is as the approximation of like the nose where

1188
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:08,559
Speaker 1: the noses, but that's basically it. It's the rest of

1189
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 1: it is covered in almost like polar bear like light

1190
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 1: colored fur. Um. How big? And I just lost the

1191
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: Google doc for a second, but how big are we

1192
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: talking about? Your not very big? Like that's a small lizard,

1193
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: so probably like about the size of your, well, maybe

1194
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: my hand, like uh, you know, just like it it

1195
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 1: fit in your hand. It's it's okay, a big thing.

1196
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 1: So so this one then and similar to the golden mole,

1197
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 1: than uh, I'm gonna go on the cute spectrum for

1198
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: for these guys because of their tininess. Um, if these

1199
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 1: things were had any significant size to them, terrifying silently

1200
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: moved through the sand and like and tremors emerged from

1201
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,680
Speaker 1: the sand like the sandworms. Yeah yeah, I know they

1202
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 1: would be terrifying if they were any bigger. Wow. Okay,

1203
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: and then the last one we're going to talk about

1204
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: is the mole rat. Again not an actual mole uh.

1205
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: There are lots of different species of mole rats. You

1206
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: may be familiar with the naked mole rat, which is

1207
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: that lovely little mole rat that is totally nude, lives

1208
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: the nude lifestyle and is proud of it. It's very progressive.

1209
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: But most mole rat species actually have fur uh and

1210
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: so they can be. As we've talked about before, naked

1211
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: mole rats live in a colony much like a beehive

1212
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: and our youth social um. But there are some furry

1213
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 1: mole rat species that also have some form of youth

1214
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: sociality UM. But some of them don't so, so they're

1215
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: different species of mole rat. But they look like moles

1216
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: uh and they uh. Their eyesight again is like limited

1217
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: ranges from being very very poor to being completely blind um.

1218
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: And they burrow in the earth uh so like all

1219
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 1: of these these are are called phosporal animals because they

1220
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 1: spend most of their time underground uh and they have

1221
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 1: large claws for burrowing no external ears. The big difference

1222
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 1: between mole rats and the rest of these mole like

1223
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,799
Speaker 1: animals and moles is that they actually have these really

1224
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 1: large front teeth, so more like a beaver or a rabbit.

1225
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: They have these huge front teeth that they use to

1226
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: like tunnel through roots and and make these these big burrows.

1227
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: And it probably serves them well in making these big

1228
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 1: colonies of like permanent burrows for them to live in,

1229
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 1: uh and to chew through like hard roots and things.

1230
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: So so it's it's if you see like something you

1231
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: think is a mole, but it has big like beaver teeth,

1232
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: It's not a mole, it's a it's a mole rat.

1233
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: These teeth just look comical like and I know with

1234
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 1: with these types of of rodents, when with these types

1235
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 1: of animals that they basically if if they don't find

1236
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 1: things to chew on, then their teeth will actually like

1237
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: grow through their upper and lower lips sometimes. Um, so

1238
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 1: these these teeth are InCred This photo is so funny.

1239
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 1: I cannot stop looking at it because it does not

1240
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: look real at all. The the between the teeth and

1241
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:29,719
Speaker 1: the it's almost like it has a shocked expression on space.

1242
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: It's so yeah, look they look like Jim Henson creations.

1243
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: Yes they do. Yes, like like a dark crystal or

1244
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 1: one of those movies with the the Henson Henson, Mommy,

1245
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it looks like. And yeah, so so

1246
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 1: moles are not or mole like animals are not the

1247
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: only ones that have these uncanny parallel or convergent evolution.

1248
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 1: So so these would whether this is convergent or parallel, um,

1249
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: I think it it's it kind of differs based on

1250
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 1: your opinion as a biologist. Like some would say this

1251
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 1: is convergent evolution because they are, you know, not related

1252
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 1: enough to each other for it to be parallel evolutions.

1253
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 1: Some might say, like, well they there, they share a

1254
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,680
Speaker 1: close enough common ancestor that this would count, or some

1255
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: cases of this would count as parallel evolution. I don't know.

1256
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of borderline because they are pretty

1257
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 1: distantly related. Um. But a definite example of parallel evolution

1258
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 1: or sorry, a definite example of convergent evolution is ichthyosaurs

1259
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 1: and dolphins. So ich theo uh sores are extinct aquatic

1260
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: reptiles back in dinosaur times early Triassic too late Cretaceous

1261
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: that these mini species of saurs lived and the species

1262
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 1: ranged from being only one m to sixteen meters long,

1263
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,600
Speaker 1: So that's three to fifty feet long. So good. Some

1264
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: species were gigantic and some are cute and widow wow.

1265
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: But yeah, they look kind of like weird dolphins. So

1266
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 1: they're dolphins shape. They have the long snout. Uh, they're

1267
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: often obviously, their anatomy is not completely the same as dolphins.

1268
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:24,400
Speaker 1: They have that um vertical tail rather than the horizontal table.

1269
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: And that has to do with the evolution of dolphins,

1270
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 1: where they uh evolved from terrestrial animals. Um. Whereas atheosaurs

1271
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: you know, well they I guess they also may have

1272
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:41,719
Speaker 1: evolved from terrestrial animals. Huh. But I guess it depends

1273
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:46,799
Speaker 1: on the pelvic shape of the reptiles that they evolved

1274
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 1: from must have been different from the pelvic shape of

1275
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: the terrestrial animals that dolphins evolved from. And so it's interesting.

1276
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: I always wondered if if the the finn shape had

1277
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 1: anything to do with the body eas of water. I guess,

1278
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 1: like the currents, Like what was more efficient as far

1279
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 1: as swimming against or with the currents? Uh, the kind

1280
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: of kind of the you know, that's the primary one

1281
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 1: of the primary things as far as the what the

1282
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 1: tail does is is locomotion. So how how efficient it

1283
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: was for them to to have either a vertical or

1284
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 1: horizontal one depending on their environment and body of water.

1285
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 1: It really actually has more to do with the way

1286
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:36,440
Speaker 1: that their pelvis and spine evolved. So with with terrestrial

1287
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,960
Speaker 1: four legged animals, they're walking was like an up and

1288
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: down undulation. So like you see you see like a

1289
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 1: horse walking or a dog walking, there's a sort of

1290
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,799
Speaker 1: like they don't like do too much of the sachet

1291
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:50,880
Speaker 1: from side to side. If you see like a lizard

1292
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:53,720
Speaker 1: walking and it's doing that side to side thingy, it's

1293
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,760
Speaker 1: got more of a side to side motion with its

1294
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 1: spine and pelvis and its locomotion, whereas a dog you

1295
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 1: see a dog or hyote eloping, it kind of has

1296
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 1: this up and down. You sit on a horse, you're

1297
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: gonna bounce up and down and up and down because

1298
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: it's fine and it's pelvis has more of this undulating.

1299
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: The way that his legs work is more of an

1300
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: up and down motion. Where's the way reptiles pelvic girl

1301
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 1: kind of works as more of a side to side

1302
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 1: just a snake, yeah, which originally snakes had legs and

1303
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 1: then they eventually dropped their legs, but they kept that

1304
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 1: side to side locomotion. Um so the same thing with

1305
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,719
Speaker 1: the ichthyosaur and the dolphin. The ichthyosaur has that side

1306
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 1: to side motion with the vertical tail like fish do,

1307
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 1: and dolphins instead of have that flat, horizontal tail because

1308
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: they evolved from like little deer like terrestrial animals that

1309
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:46,560
Speaker 1: had that up and down pelvic girdle motion, and so

1310
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 1: they still have that up and down motion of the

1311
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 1: spine and the pelvis. So what what what kind of tail? Eventually,

1312
01:21:55,520 --> 01:22:01,160
Speaker 1: billions of years from now, kangaroos have stayed in the water,

1313
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 1: mean mugging the rest of the animal kingdom, you know, saying,

1314
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:11,879
Speaker 1: come on, they're gonna look like terrifying dolphins. Okay, okay, man, okay,

1315
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:15,679
Speaker 1: now kangaroo dolphins. Oh man, that's a that's a visual

1316
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:18,760
Speaker 1: uh that that is scary as hell. Well, if you

1317
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,840
Speaker 1: want to think, if you want to see approximately what

1318
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: a kangaroo dolphin looks like, just scrolled down in this document.

1319
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 1: Because the Ambula stas, which is an extinct semi aquatic mammal,

1320
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:35,839
Speaker 1: is actually the ancestor of all cetaceans like dolphins, whales,

1321
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 1: and it looks like a cross between a kangaroo and

1322
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 1: a crocodile. Wow. Yes, it does. Holy cow, I've never

1323
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 1: seen one of these things before, not just I just

1324
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 1: meant like, obviously, I've never actually seen any of these

1325
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:55,880
Speaker 1: things before. Nobody has got a pet ambula cetis. Yeah,

1326
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 1: oh man, that is wild looking. Yeah, it looks, you know,

1327
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: like the the hands and feet have kind of like

1328
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: an otter um, like a river otter type of vibe

1329
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,960
Speaker 1: to them. But that tail is absolutely it's all kangaroo tail.

1330
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 1: And that that head, the teeth very much like the

1331
01:23:13,280 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 1: crocodile that you've got a photo next to it of. Man,

1332
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,640
Speaker 1: that's wild looking. Yeah, it looks like you gave a

1333
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 1: crocodile fur and yes, and it's oddly horrifying, but yeah,

1334
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: that's that's uh again, here's I mean, that is another

1335
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 1: example of um convergent evolution. You have completely unrelated crocodile,

1336
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 1: completely unrelated mammal just having this similar body shape, and

1337
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: then the ambulo seati goes on to evolve into the dolphin,

1338
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:46,599
Speaker 1: which has a very similar body shape to the ichtheo

1339
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:50,719
Speaker 1: store So it happens all the day time, a bunch

1340
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: of hacks. Really, yeah, it's it's uh, it's it's back

1341
01:23:54,920 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 1: to that molarization thing. There's certain environmental pressures that if

1342
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: you let the computer program go on long enough, it's

1343
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: going to revert back to the most efficient one. It's like,

1344
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: I mean, humans do it in car design all the time, right,

1345
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: Like there's there's there's a reason most cars have a

1346
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 1: similar body shape to them because we've you know, had

1347
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: enough people attempt this and and and experiment with it.

1348
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 1: When it's like a three wheeled car that's sort of

1349
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:27,520
Speaker 1: a wedge shaped, it just keeps falling over exactly exactly.

1350
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 1: There's certain certain environmental factors that just make it all

1351
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 1: all come back to a similar, similar type vibe. Man.

1352
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: That is, if I that's a new horror. If you

1353
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 1: are swimming in like a river or a lake and

1354
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 1: you imagine and and say the word for me again

1355
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 1: and bets and bulla SETAs, that is a new that's

1356
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:55,920
Speaker 1: nightmare fuel right there, Absolute nightmare fuel. Yeah, it's Uh.

1357
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to be in the water with one

1358
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: of these guys or a kangaroo. No, no, not at all.

1359
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to, UH don't want to

1360
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: get drowned by kangaroo or torn to shreds by the

1361
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: teeth of this thing. God, Okay, that's scary. Yeah, yeah,

1362
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 1: I mean it's like one of those things where it's like, well,

1363
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 1: what if a crocodile was fluffy, would it be cuter? No,

1364
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 1: I'd rather spend time with the crocodile than this thing.

1365
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:27,599
Speaker 1: God no, I uh not a crocodile, but I did.

1366
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:33,679
Speaker 1: Um uh. This is probably very illegal for me to say,

1367
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:37,759
Speaker 1: but a friend of mine was re homing a baby

1368
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:40,919
Speaker 1: alligator that I got to I got to sit babysit

1369
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 1: for the weekend until he had to go out of town.

1370
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 1: But it was like in the pond next to his house,

1371
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 1: and he wanted to rehome it to another uh like

1372
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 1: body of water because you know, he didn't want it

1373
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 1: to There's lots of dogs in the neighborhoods, you know

1374
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:56,360
Speaker 1: we were talking about, and we have lots of alligators

1375
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 1: around here, so there's so this is like a this

1376
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 1: is like a natural alligator. This is not a pet. Yeah,

1377
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. This was just he was Yeah, I said

1378
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 1: re homing. I meant like, actually gonna be like like

1379
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,600
Speaker 1: an alligator with a little collar on, and I'd have

1380
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about alligators as pets do not

1381
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: keep alligators as pets. But I we he was kept

1382
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 1: in an aquarium for like two days, um, and then

1383
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: we re homed him to a larger body of water

1384
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 1: that he could he could flourish in and thrive. But

1385
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:32,719
Speaker 1: they're adorable when they're cute, so so adorable and uh

1386
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: but but yeah, add for to it and that would

1387
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: be that would cross that uncanny valley into just terrifying.

1388
01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:42,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, like a baby, a baby, I mean

1389
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 1: baby alligators are so cute, and the little sounds they make,

1390
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:50,160
Speaker 1: they make this little like air a sound because they

1391
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:53,839
Speaker 1: call out to their mommy's too. It's so pathetic sounding.

1392
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: It's just like it's like listening to a tiger cub

1393
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 1: trying to roar for the first time. It's so cute.

1394
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 1: They are so adorable. Um, but yeah, they grow up

1395
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: into big alligators and those are not good pets. Uh

1396
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 1: and uh yeah. The but if you covered a baby

1397
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:15,320
Speaker 1: alligator and for a little cute, but then when it

1398
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: grows up, no, no longer cute, very scary exactly. I

1399
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:21,600
Speaker 1: feel like it would be like kind of have like

1400
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 1: a ferret vibe yeah, with a big mat like a

1401
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 1: longer mouth, longer mouth way way bigger eyes. Yeah, Gary,

1402
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 1: we really came full circle, right. We got the we

1403
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:40,200
Speaker 1: got the aquatic crocodile kangaroo that would definitely probably try

1404
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:43,920
Speaker 1: to drown you, because crocodiles do actually use uh they

1405
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: will drown, try to drown prey in the water. Still

1406
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: grab something, yeah, death, roll it, bring it, bring it

1407
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: down into the water. So at least we'll know that

1408
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:56,120
Speaker 1: there used to be the ambulacidas, which was looked like

1409
01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 1: the cross between a crocodile and kangaroo and probably wanted

1410
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,599
Speaker 1: to drown me. I. Uh So the the only other

1411
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: experiences that I've had with alligators growing up, we did

1412
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 1: a lot of crabbing around here where we just tie

1413
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 1: a piece of chicken on the end of a string

1414
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: and you know, hanging off the end of a pier

1415
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:17,840
Speaker 1: or stuff and uh and and catch blue crab with it. Um. Yeah,

1416
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was a quick way to

1417
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:23,280
Speaker 1: uh to to bring home some blue crab um. And

1418
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 1: we a couple of times when we did it in

1419
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:27,679
Speaker 1: the Cape Fear River because it's it's very brackish water.

1420
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 1: Because we're also I've got the inter coastal on one

1421
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,839
Speaker 1: side of the Cape Fear on the other, and uh,

1422
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 1: there's lots of alligators in in that river, and the

1423
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 1: alligator every once in a while would come up and

1424
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,240
Speaker 1: grab the chicken and we would play tug of war

1425
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:44,400
Speaker 1: with the alligator. And on my drive home from work,

1426
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 1: I drive a road called River Road that runs parallel

1427
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 1: to the Cape Fear and there was just like a

1428
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 1: six and a half foot or just chilling in the

1429
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,639
Speaker 1: middle of the road and brought traffic to a screeching halt.

1430
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 1: So I very stupidly, and I do not recommend anybody

1431
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:03,879
Speaker 1: do this. Don't do this, don't, but I was afraid

1432
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:07,080
Speaker 1: somebody was gonna was gonna hit this thing. And there's

1433
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: a golf course on the other side of the road

1434
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 1: with ponds on it. So these alligators will come up

1435
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:14,320
Speaker 1: out of the river and go chill in the golf course.

1436
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:18,919
Speaker 1: Uh for for you know, however long. And so I grabbed.

1437
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 1: I had a pair of like bolt cutters or something

1438
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:24,720
Speaker 1: in the back of my my pickup truck, and so

1439
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: I I stretched them out, I extend them, and I

1440
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:29,680
Speaker 1: put on a pair of gloves, these leather gloves that

1441
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: I had, and I dangle one end of the bolt

1442
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 1: cutters in front of like the mouth the head of

1443
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 1: him to get his attention, and then I just grabbed

1444
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 1: his tail and slung him like as hard, you know,

1445
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: not not violently or anything, but just it is still

1446
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:48,720
Speaker 1: to this day, I still get the tingly sensation when

1447
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,200
Speaker 1: I think about doing that, because it was the stupidest

1448
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 1: thing I could have done, but it was just a

1449
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: spur of the moment. I'm gonna try this and I

1450
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: hope it works out. And then he just waddled off

1451
01:29:57,000 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: and seemed completely fine headed, headed down towards the river.

1452
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 1: That's so yeah, don't don't do that. You're not never

1453
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:08,040
Speaker 1: do that. It's so funny though, because it's like yesterday

1454
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:09,920
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, there was a there was a

1455
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 1: fledgling bird in the middle of a sidewalk, and it

1456
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 1: was like relocated it to a hedge, and I felt like, wow,

1457
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:18,680
Speaker 1: I'm interacting with nature, and you're like, yeah, one time

1458
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:21,000
Speaker 1: I grabbed an alligator and just like yeted it right

1459
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 1: into a golf course. Honestly, I like the unpredicted, like

1460
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:29,559
Speaker 1: the alligator is long enough that like grabbing its pale

1461
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: is still a good you know, six ft away from it,

1462
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:36,880
Speaker 1: and I know alligators are extremely fast when they whipped

1463
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:39,760
Speaker 1: that head around, but I I as soon as I

1464
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:43,080
Speaker 1: grabbed the tail, I also started moving, so like the

1465
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,759
Speaker 1: momentum the inertia kept him from like really doing anything.

1466
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 1: But handling a bird is more stressful to me than

1467
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:55,720
Speaker 1: than probably what I did with the alligator, because they

1468
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 1: are able to uh, their their talents and their beaks

1469
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:02,679
Speaker 1: are so quit and so close to your hands. Yeah,

1470
01:31:04,439 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 1: I was in so much danger. You were, You were

1471
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: baby sparrow. Yeah, baby sparrows have right and I'm glad

1472
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 1: that you were that you have right. Well, thank you

1473
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 1: so much for being on the show. You're a wonderful gift.

1474
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 1: Although I know he's a very charismatic gift. Don't handle alligators, don't, please,

1475
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: do not. Don't don't. It was very stupid of me.

1476
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:31,439
Speaker 1: I I still think about it to this every once

1477
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: in a while, I'll think about doing that and just like,

1478
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,040
Speaker 1: what the hell? And that's why we call him all

1479
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:42,320
Speaker 1: one arm Christie. Ye, Well, hey, where can people find you?

1480
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 1: So you can find me at on Twitter at wopple

1481
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 1: House w A P P L E h O U

1482
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 1: s e UM and I host, as you said at

1483
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: the top of the show, lour after Hours, which if

1484
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 1: you're a fan of the Dan Lebottard Show, this might

1485
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,400
Speaker 1: be in your wheelhouse or something you might want to

1486
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 1: check out. If you're not a fan of the Dan

1487
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: Lebottard Show, honestly you're it's it's gonna be a tough listen.

1488
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: So if if that's not your thing, I completely understand.

1489
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 1: You can find me at George Center Pod on Twitter

1490
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,799
Speaker 1: as well. That's another podcast I do with some friends

1491
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,759
Speaker 1: of mine because the world doesn't have enough dude sitting

1492
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 1: around talking about stupid stuff. So that's that's George Center,

1493
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: like Gene Shorts and yes, George Center Pod, and uh,

1494
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 1: it's not about sports, so it's also like George's not

1495
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 1: sports exactly, it's a bunch of dudes sitting around in

1496
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:42,599
Speaker 1: George's uh laughing. So uh that that's where you can

1497
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:46,600
Speaker 1: find me. And you can find the podcast on the

1498
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 1: internet at Creature creature Pot on Instagram, at Creature feak

1499
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:52,479
Speaker 1: pot on Twitter. That's f E A T, not f

1500
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 1: E T. That's it's very different. Uh. And if you

1501
01:32:56,160 --> 01:32:59,599
Speaker 1: want to send me in your email questions, you can

1502
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:03,400
Speaker 1: send it to Creature Feature Pod at gmail dot com

1503
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: and I'll try to answer questions. Sometimes I'm a little slow,

1504
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:09,599
Speaker 1: like I get I get kind of behind on stuff,

1505
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,760
Speaker 1: but I am working through the emails. So if you

1506
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 1: sent in a question, I haven't answered it yet, Like,

1507
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 1: don't worry, I am. I am working on it. Um.

1508
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:20,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, keep sending those into me because I

1509
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:23,719
Speaker 1: love to hear him and if yeah, sometimes I will

1510
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:27,800
Speaker 1: answer them on the show. Uh and uh, you can

1511
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 1: find me at Katie Golden. That's just where I put

1512
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: my Katie thoughts. And as always, I am pro bird right.

1513
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:39,320
Speaker 1: I'm a human, not a skin suit full of a

1514
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 1: flock of birds trying to trick humanity and into giving

1515
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:48,519
Speaker 1: us more power for bread. Certainly not. Uh, thank you

1516
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:51,639
Speaker 1: so much for listening. If you enjoy the show, please

1517
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:54,559
Speaker 1: leave a rating and review that actually does tangibly help

1518
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:59,560
Speaker 1: the podcast. It tells tells the iTunes and web webpoons

1519
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:03,719
Speaker 1: and pod pod place at Internet that we're a good show,

1520
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,639
Speaker 1: and it tricks the robots into you giving us attention.

1521
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. Thanks to the Space Classics for their

1522
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:14,680
Speaker 1: super awesome song Exo Lumina. Creature features a production of

1523
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the one you

1524
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:19,799
Speaker 1: just heard, visit the I Heard Radio app Apple podcast

1525
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 1: or Hey guess what. Why have you listen to your

1526
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 1: favorite shows? I don't care, I don't judge. See you

1527
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 1: next Wednesday.