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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. There you go to some other people who

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Speaker 1: hanging out. I'll go to h. Thomas, who's in La

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Speaker 1: Joya on Coast to Coast AM, who's been hanging on

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Speaker 1: for a while. Thomas, Hi, Ian. Thank you for taking

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Speaker 1: my call. And I want to thank you for your

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Speaker 1: service and your compassion and wisdom and counsel as a

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Speaker 1: teacher and as a deacon. And I was calling about

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Speaker 1: a very interesting interview with Laurie Nadell. Oh. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: asked the right questions. I want to talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: in your experience as a doctor of divinity, storytelling, metaphor parables,

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Speaker 1: particularly as Gee used parables, you know, as recorded in

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Speaker 1: the New Testament. In a sense, they are placebos. They're

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Speaker 1: like sugar pills to the unconscious. And I was wondering

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Speaker 1: if you Ion, I always enjoy your sharing of your

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Speaker 1: personal experience. I was wondering if you would share perhaps

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Speaker 1: an experience you had in terms of counseling a student

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Speaker 1: or perhaps you know as a deacon men and women,

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Speaker 1: and in which you used a parable or a story

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Speaker 1: or a metaphor too well as a placebo. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. That's a really interesting concept, so I'll put it.

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Speaker 1: Let's hang on to that together, don't go anywhere. So

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Speaker 1: first of all, just to be clear, I don't have

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Speaker 1: a Doctor of Divinity of a Masters of Divinity, and

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Speaker 1: then I got a PhD. So that's the I want

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Speaker 1: to say that, just to be in the to be transparent,

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Speaker 1: the I may get a Doctor of Divinity someday just

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Speaker 1: so I could be doctor doctor, but I haven't haven't

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Speaker 1: done that, so I've never really thought about that as

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Speaker 1: having a placebic effect. But it's a fair point. Here's

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Speaker 1: where how I look at parables. So I think in

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Speaker 1: life and you can talk about counseling. My big push

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Speaker 1: for people all the time is towards something we call orthopraxis,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to orthodoxy, because orthodoxy is elusive. When we say,

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Speaker 1: well that's you know, the orthodox thinking. You're not thinking right,

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Speaker 1: it's not right thinking. And here's how you are supposed

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Speaker 1: to think about it, And I think what happens over time?

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Speaker 1: Of course, we can look and we can see any

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Speaker 1: organization over time changes what they consider to be orthodoxy.

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Speaker 1: And in a lot of ways, what was yesterday's heresy

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Speaker 1: is tomorrow's orthodoxy. We see that in all sorts of

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Speaker 1: ways in our life. And orthopraxis, however, is kind of

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Speaker 1: a cooler concept, which is the idea of right practice.

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Speaker 1: And it's less focused on the conclusion, and it's more

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Speaker 1: focused on how we behave or how we act. And

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Speaker 1: I think acting right is different than thinking right. And

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Speaker 1: so that's where the parables come into it, because parables,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if anybody speaks to you in a parable form,

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Speaker 1: they are intentionally avoiding saying don't do this, do that,

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Speaker 1: because we often have a reaction to somebody says, don't

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Speaker 1: ever you know, don't hitchhike, don't ever hitchhike. That's just dump.

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Speaker 1: Don't ever do that. And and so that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: the kind of orthodoxy of these do knots thou shalt

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Speaker 1: not kind of stuff. But when we tell parables, it

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Speaker 1: uncovers something within the mind of the receiver. So parables

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Speaker 1: may you personalize the story being told, and suddenly you're

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Speaker 1: that person who's standing there with a rock in your hand,

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Speaker 1: and are you going to throw it or not? As

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Speaker 1: that we get into a parable you know about throwing stones,

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Speaker 1: and I think that part is interesting. So it's trigguing

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Speaker 1: that you think of it as a placebo. I have

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Speaker 1: to give it that more thought because I think there's

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Speaker 1: some real value in that. But that's what I think

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Speaker 1: of when I think about about parables. It's the resistance

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Speaker 1: that we have to try to be just purely didactic

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Speaker 1: and just go bad dog, bad dog, good dog, and

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Speaker 1: instead we tell a story about dogs, and then we're

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Speaker 1: the ones who decide whether we're the good dog or

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Speaker 1: the bad dog in the story. What do you think

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Speaker 1: of that? I like that, Ian. I always appreciate your

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Speaker 1: wisdom and your personal sharing of experience and yeah, thank you. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's very nice you appreciate that, Thomas. Of course, one

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Speaker 1: person's wisdom is another person's blather. I'm sure I'll get

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Speaker 1: blasted for that in social media, somebody saying, what do

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Speaker 1: you mean, there's no orthodoxy. Listen to more Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go

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