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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 2: name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. We are

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Speaker 2: currently in the midst of rerunning our episodes about the

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Speaker 2: Heart from last year, which, if you've been listening to

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Speaker 2: the show well at least a year, you know that

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Speaker 2: these were episodes that talked about the central place that

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Speaker 2: the hearth has long had in human domiciles. This place

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Speaker 2: that is a source of heat, that can be a

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Speaker 2: source of food, and is also kind of like the

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Speaker 2: epicenter of culture for the immediate household, and also there

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Speaker 2: are all these additional supernatural ideas associated with it. It

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Speaker 2: becomes a gateway through which spirits might enter into the

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Speaker 2: home and so forth. Yeah, and so today's episode is

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Speaker 2: gonna be essentially kind of a sidebar to all of that.

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Speaker 2: That was partially inspired by a recent visit that I

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Speaker 2: made to New Orleans. Traveled there with my family, and

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Speaker 2: New Orleans, of course, is full of all sorts of

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Speaker 2: interesting history, and I was touring a mid nineteenth century

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Speaker 2: home that had been restored and redecorated so that it

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Speaker 2: would look like it did back in the day. And

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Speaker 2: you know, there are all sorts of little details and

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Speaker 2: technological innovations of the time period that are pretty fascinating,

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Speaker 2: but one in particular kind of caught my eye. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't anything super advanced either. It wasn't related to

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Speaker 2: plumbing or ventilation, well a little bit to ventilation, as

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Speaker 2: we'll discuss, but it wasn't like high tech of the day.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it had some kind of antique aspects about it.

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Speaker 2: It was a fire screen. It was a decorative piece

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Speaker 2: on a little stand placed in front of the fireplace.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure I've seen these before. I like, looking back,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, there's here's one in this museum I

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Speaker 2: went to and so forth. I don't know that I've

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Speaker 2: ever really looked at one and thought about it all

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Speaker 2: that much, But in this moment, I really was taken

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Speaker 2: by it was why is that there? Why would we

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Speaker 2: have something between us and the fire? Because, as we

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Speaker 2: discussed in the heart episodes, like everybody loves looking at

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Speaker 2: a roaring fire, right, why would you put something in

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Speaker 2: front of it? And you know, this question has some

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Speaker 2: flaws in it as well, as we'll get into, but

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Speaker 2: that's what we're going to be talking about in this

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Speaker 2: episode today.

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Speaker 3: What was the design on the fire screen? You saw it? Like,

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Speaker 3: what did it look like?

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Speaker 2: It was the flowers or something it was. I think

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Speaker 2: that was part of it too. It was like, why

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Speaker 2: would you look at this when you could look at

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Speaker 2: a fire, which is, you know, so enthralling and ever

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Speaker 2: changing and kind of fills your mind with different ideas.

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Speaker 2: But the answer is going to be a little more

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Speaker 2: complex than that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I had never really thought at all about

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Speaker 3: fire screens. I'm sure I've seen these things before, but

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Speaker 3: there they were invisible to me. I had never lingered

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Speaker 3: on them, so I never even thought to ask the

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Speaker 3: question what were they for? Where did they come from?

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Speaker 3: So investigating that was kind of interesting. I found to

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Speaker 3: mention one source some passages on the history of the

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Speaker 3: fire screen in a book by an art historian named

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Speaker 3: William C. Ketcham Junior. This guy wrote a bunch of

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Speaker 3: books about American furniture and antiques. The book is called Chests, Cupboards, Desks,

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Speaker 3: and other Pieces, published by A. Knop in nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 3: Shout out that I found this because excerpts from the

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Speaker 3: book were screenshotted on a website called Buffalo Architecture and History,

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Speaker 3: which is still rocking and amazing. Early two thousands website

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Speaker 3: design with like white text or sorry, black text on

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Speaker 3: a white background divider bars. That great stuff made me

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Speaker 3: yearn for the old web.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I wonder if I can scan to the

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Speaker 2: bottom of this page and join the web ring.

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Speaker 3: It should have like a visit tracker accounter. Yeah, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but it's great. So yeah, excerpts from this book we're

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Speaker 3: on that website. I went and looked up the book

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Speaker 3: on its own. So catch um. Rites that fire screens

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Speaker 3: date back to the Middle Ages, when many homes, especially

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Speaker 3: larger homes, would be heated by these huge blazing fireplaces.

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Speaker 3: And the earlier screens that you would find going back

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Speaker 3: into the Middle Ages would have generally been quite utilitarian

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Speaker 3: in nature, less like the decorated pieces that we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about in a minute. You see more of

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Speaker 3: the decorative, beautiful pieces later on, especially beginning around the

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Speaker 3: seventeenth century. So what is the utilitarian function of a

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Speaker 3: fire screen? Well, you might imagine if you've ever sat

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Speaker 3: out by a bonfire in the cold, or sat beside

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Speaker 3: a large fireplace when no other form of heat was

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Speaker 3: being used in a house, you'll know that it can

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Speaker 3: be equal parts cozy and uncomfortable. You know, if you

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Speaker 3: have no other heat source in a house and it's

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Speaker 3: very cold in the winter, you know, if you get

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Speaker 3: more than ten feet away from the fire, it's still freezing.

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Speaker 3: Like it doesn't A fireplace does not distribute heat evenly

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Speaker 3: throughout the house like forced air central heating does. You know?

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Speaker 3: Fourced air central heating uses convection. It warms the air

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Speaker 3: with vents throughout the house. The fire is just mainly

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Speaker 3: going to be sending radiant heat in straight lines out

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Speaker 3: into the room where the fire is, and it's also

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Speaker 3: heating up some of the stone, you know, tile or

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Speaker 3: metal infrastructure around it that also radiates some heat. So

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Speaker 3: most of the heat is just coming straight out of

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Speaker 3: the fire and around where the fire is. So you

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Speaker 3: step away from the fire and it's still cold. In fact,

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Speaker 3: we talked in our episodes on the Hearth about some

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Speaker 3: research showing that well, it might feel nice and toasty

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Speaker 3: right beside the fire. When you start a fire in

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Speaker 3: a fireplace, usually the rest of the house gets colder

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Speaker 3: because it's going to be sucking air in through little

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Speaker 3: gaps and cracks and the windows and the doors in

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Speaker 3: order to help drive the to help drive the convection

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Speaker 3: that's going to be flowing up out of the chimney.

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Speaker 3: So if your only heat source is a fireplace, it's

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Speaker 3: going to be cold stepping away from the fire. You

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Speaker 3: got to stay close to it to be warm. However,

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Speaker 3: when you're right up close, the warmth provided by a

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Speaker 3: large fire is not gentle. It roasts you, and you

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Speaker 3: might have to frequently adjust position or turn different parts

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Speaker 3: of your body toward the fire every few minutes to

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Speaker 3: prevent it from overheating any particular part of your flesh.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you've had this experience.

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Speaker 2: Rob, Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe I've noticed it more

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Speaker 2: with campfires of course, where you know you're hanging out

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Speaker 2: by the campfire and well there's suddenly you know your

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Speaker 2: feet are heating up a little bit too much, and

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Speaker 2: then yeah, you go and cool off, and then pretty

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Speaker 2: soon you're chili and you have to move back next

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Speaker 2: to the fire. I did not have a fireplace in

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Speaker 2: my home, so I only get to enjoy them when

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Speaker 2: I'm like staying in a cabin or something, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe at a hotel or a restaurant that has them.

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Speaker 2: But even then it's it's often kind of fleeting, so

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Speaker 2: you don't you don't get that like long term exposure

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Speaker 2: factor with one of these fires. And if I am

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Speaker 2: encountering a fire, it's often not going to be the

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Speaker 2: kind of roaring hearth that we're talking about, you know,

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Speaker 2: historically here, it might be one of these more these

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Speaker 2: tamer like gas powered features that we have today, which

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Speaker 2: are great to look at, do put off some heat,

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Speaker 2: but not on the level that we're talking about here.

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Speaker 3: Also, rarely these days in an American building is it

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Speaker 3: going to be the only source of heat. A lot

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Speaker 3: of times you'll have the you know, the central heat running,

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Speaker 3: forced air heating, and then also you have a supplemental

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Speaker 3: fire in the fireplace because it's nice, not because it's

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Speaker 3: the only way to heat the house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we do it as a more than more often

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Speaker 2: than not, as a luxury on top of whatever we're

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Speaker 2: doing to heat the place.

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Speaker 3: Right, So, when you got a big fire in the

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Speaker 3: fireplace and it's your only source of it can be

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Speaker 3: uncomfortable to be too far away from it and uncomfortable

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Speaker 3: to be too close because you're getting you're getting roasted

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Speaker 3: with a really big fire. Also, I've read you know,

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Speaker 3: the glare of the light can sometimes be uncomfortable to

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Speaker 3: look at, depending on how bright it is and other

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Speaker 3: conditions in the room. One thing I read mentioned in

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Speaker 3: a few sources was that another function of various screens

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Speaker 3: and guards of different kinds covering a fireplace, especially going

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Speaker 3: back into the Middle Ages, one function of these various

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Speaker 3: types of coverings, especially the tighter coverings, was to block

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Speaker 3: cold air drafts when the fireplace was not in use.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, so two things I want to say on

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Speaker 2: what you just shared. First of all, in terms of

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Speaker 2: the glare, I think this is something that it's easy

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Speaker 2: to overlook as a non like regular fireplace user, is

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Speaker 2: since the fireplace becomes a special treat. Yeah, we think, like,

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Speaker 2: like I was thinking, like, why would you look at

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Speaker 2: anything else? Like you have the fireplace, look at it.

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Speaker 2: But in general it makes sense that, yeah, around it

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Speaker 2: all the time, you have other things you might want

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Speaker 2: to do. You may wish to socialize more directly with

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Speaker 2: the people around you, or read a book or work

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Speaker 2: on a craft, and the light might be too intense

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Speaker 2: for that. You might want to focus your eyes on

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Speaker 2: something else. Other than the fire, and in this reminded

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Speaker 2: me a little bit of the There's a scene in

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Speaker 2: the recent Nonseratu adaptation where we meet count Overlock more

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Speaker 2: officially in this big room that has a roaring fire,

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Speaker 2: and it's fabulously at the same time both really dim

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Speaker 2: and dark and also like blinding. So I feel like

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Speaker 2: that scene maybe gets that some of the paradoxical realities

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Speaker 2: of a hearth lit and hearth heated room, I think so. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then the empty hearth is another important factor, one

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Speaker 2: that I think is also easy to forget about if

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Speaker 2: you don't have a fireplace, or if you have a

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Speaker 2: modern fireplace that can maybe be s up a little

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Speaker 2: bit easier when it's not in use. But yeah, this

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Speaker 2: idea that it is a potentially drafty affair in and

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Speaker 2: of itself, and so you might want to block access

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Speaker 2: to the wind to some degree, cut down on the

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Speaker 2: airflow or even the sight of the empty fireplace, which

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Speaker 2: I know is another factor involved here. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Secondary purpose for fire screens, especially certain forms of them.

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Speaker 3: We'll get into different forms as we go along, but

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Speaker 3: the wider paneled forms sitting closer to the floor were

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Speaker 3: often used to cover up what was considered the unsightly

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Speaker 3: and depressing image of an empty fireplace when there was

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Speaker 3: not a fire burning in it. So a nice decorative

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Speaker 3: fire screen would hide the sooty hollow and replace it

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Speaker 3: with a nice design or at least a neutral surface.

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Speaker 2: This I understand now that it's pointed out to me,

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Speaker 2: because the fireplaces that I have grown up around at

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Speaker 2: different times, they were often not in use. When they

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Speaker 2: were not in use, sometimes things it would like they'd

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Speaker 2: be like maybe some sort of a popoury kind of

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Speaker 2: a little thing placed in there to sort of, yeah,

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Speaker 2: tend to make it a little more comfortable and less

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Speaker 2: look less empty, and maybe make you less sad about

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Speaker 2: the fact that we can't use the fireplace right now

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Speaker 2: because it's July, right.

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Speaker 3: So, fire screens are functional. They do have a purpose.

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Speaker 3: They were invented to allow you to heat a room

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Speaker 3: with a large, hot fire, but shield the people sitting

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Speaker 3: next to the fire from the most intense direct radiant

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Speaker 3: heat and glare from the blaze. Fire screens, depending on

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Speaker 3: how they're defined, sometimes people make a distinction between the

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Speaker 3: terms fire screen and fire guard. Things that are I

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Speaker 3: think more often called fire guards would have the benefit

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Speaker 3: as well of blocking sudden ejections from the fire, like

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Speaker 3: sparks and embers. But if you think about that, you know,

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Speaker 3: some of these fire screens we're going to talk about

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Speaker 3: it made a very delicate flammable material and so they

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Speaker 3: probably you wouldn't want to use them for that purpose.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, this sort clearly they were not intended to

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Speaker 2: catch any sparks or flaming logs that might come falling

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Speaker 2: out of the fireplace.

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Speaker 3: But you know, as we've probably all seen around a

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Speaker 3: lot of fireplaces, there might be a metal mesh or

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Speaker 3: wire or some kind of metal and glass design, and

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Speaker 3: these are more in the fire guard zone. These would

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Speaker 3: not only provide some shielding from the most intense radiant

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Speaker 3: heat and the glare, they would also prevent anything from

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Speaker 3: being ejected through. You know, they would be a stopper there.

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Speaker 3: But in addition to these functional uses, fire screens were

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Speaker 3: also decorative so catch them in this book mentions that

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Speaker 3: in eighteenth century American examples quote the panels displayed fine

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Speaker 3: needlework or later paintings, often made by the women of

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Speaker 3: the house, as well as prints or various fabrics, And

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Speaker 3: if you look up examples of eighteenth century American fire screens.

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Speaker 3: I guess that's probably what you would have been seeing

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Speaker 3: in the house you visited, Rob. Many of them are

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Speaker 3: absolutely beautiful, beautiful, elaborate designs. I just wanted to mention

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Speaker 3: one that caught my eye when I was just image

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Speaker 3: searching for these things, I found images of a screen

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Speaker 3: hosted on a blog post for the Winterthur Museum in

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Speaker 3: Delaware by a student named Tess Friedman. This image, Rob,

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Speaker 3: I've got for you to look at in the outline.

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Speaker 3: It's of what's called a pole screen. I'll explain that

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Speaker 3: more in a minute. A pole screen that was made

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Speaker 3: in New York between seventeen sixty and seventeen seventy five

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Speaker 3: with a mahogany base. The screen is a linen canvas

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Speaker 3: with an elaborate hand embroidered image made out of yarn

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Speaker 3: and silk, and it looks basically like a framed painting

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Speaker 3: on a rectangular canvas attached to a pole on a

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Speaker 3: wooden tripod, except, of course, it's not a painting. It's

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Speaker 3: an embroidery design. The embroidered image on the canvas depicts

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Speaker 3: a shepherdess and a shepherd out in this pastoral scene

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Speaker 3: with sheep roaming the hills beside a city, and the

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Speaker 3: male shepherd is kneeling in front of the shepherdess. He's

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Speaker 3: got his hand over his heart, looks he looks like

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Speaker 3: he's asking for her attention or something. Maybe maybe he's

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Speaker 3: asking her to marry him, and she seems to be

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Speaker 3: kind of considering the offer or whatever it is. And

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Speaker 3: I think, what's so captivating to me about this piece

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Speaker 3: of furniture is imagining this beautiful, delicate work of art,

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Speaker 3: delicate both in construction and even in subject matter, being

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Speaker 3: used as the shield from a roaring fire. But again,

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Speaker 3: this contradiction is somewhat not a contradiction when you understand

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Speaker 3: how these different types of fire shield furniture were used.

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Speaker 3: There are actually lots of different designs for fire screens

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Speaker 3: and fireguards. Some are wide and positioned on the floor

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Speaker 3: closer to the fire to provide general protection to the

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Speaker 3: room or to the seating area around the hearth. Others,

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Speaker 3: like this fire screen would be positioned usually closer to

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Speaker 3: the person, with a targeted blocking radius, kind of like

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Speaker 3: a little parasol for the fireplace, And these are often

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Speaker 3: said to serve the purpose of shielding a person's face

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Speaker 3: rather than their whole body. This form again is often

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Speaker 3: called the pole screen, and you can find a lot

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Speaker 3: of examples like this that are a pole, a wooden pole,

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Speaker 3: or a metal pole coming up off of a round

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Speaker 3: or tripod base on the floor and then it's holding

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Speaker 3: maybe a round or a rectangular screen of some kind,

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Speaker 3: often with a beautiful design on it. And this type

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Speaker 3: of furniture again would not be placed right next to

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Speaker 3: the fire. Instead, you should picture it maybe at the

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Speaker 3: edge of a couch where a lady was resting, and

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Speaker 3: the screen would be between next to the lady's head

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Speaker 3: between her in the fire. Now I also mentioned that

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Speaker 3: the pole screen, the smaller pole screen, is not the

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Speaker 3: only design in contrast to these smaller elevated screens. Ketchum

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Speaker 3: says that in the early nineteenth century, the cheval design

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Speaker 3: became more popular in American homes. It was not invented

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Speaker 3: at this time, but it became more popular in America

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Speaker 3: around then. The cheval design, named after the French word

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Speaker 3: for horse, is a wide rectangular panel mounted load to

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Speaker 3: the floor on two pairs of short legs, So it

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Speaker 3: is kind of like a little you know, picture a

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Speaker 3: little sawhorse, but instead of a cross beam. It's a

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Speaker 3: big rectangular panel or screen.

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Speaker 2: And these often really have a you really get a

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Speaker 2: sense of please don't look at the fireplace with these. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's almost like like, pay no attention to what is

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Speaker 2: behind the beautiful parrot decorated work of art.

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Speaker 3: Right, Or here's an angel with a bunch of blooming

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Speaker 3: flowers all around her, and then behind her is the blaze.

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Speaker 3: Ketchum finally says that fire screens began to fade out

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Speaker 3: of use and become less common as modern forms of

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Speaker 3: domestic heating takeover in the early twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: Now, one thing that I picked up on during my

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Speaker 2: tour in New Orleans was this idea that people of

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Speaker 2: the time might want to avoid looking into the fire

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Speaker 2: for some reason or another, and it was compared to

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Speaker 2: staring at a television too much or something. I was

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Speaker 2: rather intrigued by that idea, I have to say, though

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Speaker 2: I did not have much luck in finding any specific

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Speaker 2: Victorian notion of this situation where there was some sort

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Speaker 2: of an idea that it was bad luck or thought

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Speaker 2: bad for the eyes, especially to gaze into the fire.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, again acknowledging that there was a

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Speaker 2: need to shield yourself from the heat and or glare

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Speaker 2: of the fire. But I was expecting that maybe there

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Speaker 2: might be something out there of a tradition where it

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Speaker 2: was you know, bad luck or bad manners or bad

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Speaker 2: health to do so. But I don't know. It seems

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Speaker 2: based on what I was finding, that there's little in

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Speaker 2: the way of cultural opposition to steering at a fire

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Speaker 2: in general for human beings outside of some very specific

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Speaker 2: cultural examples. Certainly nothing with a wide enough footprint in

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Speaker 2: European and then American traditions of the time as far

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Speaker 2: as I can tell. That being said, however, as we

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Speaker 2: discussed in the Hearth episodes, there all these rich ideas

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Speaker 2: of the heart is some sort of a supernatural pathway

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Speaker 2: through which things might enter the home. There's plenty of

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Speaker 2: room for a tradition like that to emerge, even if

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Speaker 2: it's very local, and you know, particularly if you're thinking

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Speaker 2: of a place like New Orleans, where you have all

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Speaker 2: these different cultures coming together and different ideas merging with

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Speaker 2: each other. So I'm not going to completely rule out

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Speaker 2: the possibility, but I wasn't able to find much on it.

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Speaker 2: What you will find, however, is an idea that these

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Speaker 2: screens were important to keep the cosmetics of Victorian women

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Speaker 2: from melting, essentially from their face melting off when they

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Speaker 2: were hit with the intense heat of a fireplace, and

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Speaker 2: therefore you would need to have a screen in place,

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Speaker 2: either handheld or on a pole to protect them. This,

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Speaker 2: as far as I can tell, so this is widely

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Speaker 2: discredited as a myth. But at the same time, it

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Speaker 2: seems like this is maybe more on the exaggeration end

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Speaker 2: of the myth spectrum. So as we've been discussing, like

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Speaker 2: there were practical reasons to want to keep the heat

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Speaker 2: off of your face and the glare of the fireplace

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Speaker 2: out of your eyes. Could it mess up your makeup?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe not, but it doesn't seem to be.

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Speaker 2: You know, the prime reason for this, I think where

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Speaker 2: it becomes a myth is when people say, oh, well

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Speaker 2: they had that because ladies had wax based cosmetics and

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Speaker 2: they didn't want the melt. Not the prime leading reason

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Speaker 2: as far as I can tell. Now, I want to

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Speaker 2: briefly mention another tradition just because I feel like it

360
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Speaker 2: helps us maybe understand like some of the broad strokes

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Speaker 2: of this sort of technology, The idea of placing some

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Speaker 2: sort of a screen between you and a heat source

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Speaker 2: or between the heat source and other parts of your environment.

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Speaker 2: And in that we have what is known in Japanese

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Speaker 2: as a biobu, and I maybe butchering that pronunciation now

366
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Speaker 2: byaba in general is just a folding screen, often decorated

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Speaker 2: with calligraphy or other images. These eventually found their way

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Speaker 2: into European and American homes as well during the eighteenth

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Speaker 2: century and then beyond. It led to a tradition in

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Speaker 2: Mexico as well of a screen tradition that was inspired

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Speaker 2: by it. And the word literally means protect action from

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Speaker 2: the wind or wind wall in Japanese. And so you

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Speaker 2: might use this to break up a space or indeed

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Speaker 2: to sort of like prevent a draft from moving all

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Speaker 2: the way through a living environment. But then you also

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Speaker 2: have a frosaki biago or furnace wind screen, and this

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00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 2: is also decorative, sometimes a fine work of art, but

378
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: it is specifically used to protect the furo or portable

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Speaker 2: tea brasier from drafts that might blow on the coals

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Speaker 2: and scatter the ashes and disrupt the tea ceremony that

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Speaker 2: you're conducting with this little portable, little portable stove. The

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Speaker 2: stove would have used charcoal, it would have provided the

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Speaker 2: specific heat needed for the creation of proper macha tea.

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Speaker 2: So it's one of these things that is again highly ceremonial,

385
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Speaker 2: highly esthetic, but the at least original idea in its

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Speaker 2: design is Okay, if you're going to have some sort

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Speaker 2: of a heat source, a burning heat source, you might

388
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Speaker 2: need to prevent the wind from catching it because this

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Speaker 2: could at the very least disrupt things, get some ash

390
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Speaker 2: where you don't want some ash, or it could potentially

391
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Speaker 2: serve as a fire hazard. Again, easy to take all

392
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Speaker 2: this for granted because central heating in a home, like

393
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 2: your airflow is part of the way your home is heated. Like,

394
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: it's all built into the system. This problem has been

395
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 2: solved for you, and you don't have to worry as

396
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: much about that air circulation and how it relates to

397
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Speaker 2: your heat and your heat sources.

398
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Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the many pieces of modern domestic technology

399
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 3: that we often just take for granted. We forget to

400
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: even appreciate that it's there. Yeah, all right, are you

401
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: ready to talk about fuel sources?

402
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get into the fuel sources, because this is

403
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Speaker 2: another thing that I just didn't think about at all

404
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: when I was making you snap judgments about fire screens

405
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Speaker 2: as I was touring that house.

406
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Speaker 3: Right, so forewarning that I'm going to begin this with

407
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Speaker 3: a question that I was not in the time preparing

408
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 3: for today's episode able to find a conclusive answer to.

409
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: I'm only going to get halfway there, but I did

410
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: uncover some interesting things along the way, so please bear

411
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 3: with me as we go along. But what I wanted

412
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 3: to talk about was a distinction between coal fires and

413
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Speaker 3: wood fires, because when we in America think of a

414
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: fire and a fireplace today, I bet almost everybody thinks

415
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 3: of a wood fire where the fuel is split wedges

416
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: of seasoned hardwood. But there are other sources of fuel,

417
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 3: of course, and at other times and places in history,

418
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 3: they might be more common in domestic fires, not just

419
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 3: in say, a coal furnace or a coal stove, but

420
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Speaker 3: even in open hearth fireplaces in the home. And a

421
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 3: big alternative here is coal. If you were to go

422
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: look in the fireplace of, for example, a middle class

423
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Speaker 3: or working class home in London in the eighteenth or

424
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 3: nineteenth century, the fire in the fireplace would almost certainly

425
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Speaker 3: be a coal fire and not a wood fire. Now,

426
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: this doesn't hold true everywhere around the world. In fact,

427
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: it wouldn't hold true even everywhere in Britain at the time.

428
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Speaker 3: If you went out into the countryside, you'd probably still

429
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Speaker 3: find a lot of houses burning wood, But in the

430
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 3: city coal would be the go to fuel source for

431
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Speaker 3: cooking and heating in most homes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. For a seasonally appropriate literary example of this, in

433
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Speaker 2: A Christmas Carol, Scrooge is something of a coal miser,

434
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Speaker 2: and much is often made of this in adaptations like

435
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: I grew up watching Disney's A Christmas Carol, and I

436
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: included a screenshot here for you, Jove. I haven't seen

437
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: this in a while, but you can see Mickey Mouse's

438
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: cratch it holding up a single piece of coal. You cold,

439
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 2: it has not been lit. He wants to put it

440
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: in the stove, and Scrooge is giving him a hard

441
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: time about it, like, now, you're you're going to put

442
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: us out of business if you've used one piece of coal. Yeah,

443
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 2: I had to look up any mention of coal in

444
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 2: the original literary work. I'm going to read a passage

445
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: here the door of Scrooge's counting house was open that

446
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: he might keep his eye upon his clerk, who, in

447
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: a dismal little cell beyond a sort of tank, was

448
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 2: copying letters. Scrooge had a very small fire, but the

449
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: clerk's fire was so very much smaller that it looked

450
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: like one coal. But he couldn't replenish it, for Scrooge

451
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: kept the coal box in his own room, and so

452
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: surely as the clerk came in with the shovel, the

453
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: master predicted that it would be necessary for them to part.

454
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: Wherefore the clerk put on his white comforter and tried

455
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: to warm himself at the candle, in which effort, not

456
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: being a man of a strong imagination, he failed.

457
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: You're a mean one, missed Scrooge.

458
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, coal cole, it's right in our face.

459
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: You know, ours probably one of, if not the most

460
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: famous example of their snapshot of Victorian urban living. And yeah,

461
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: the coal is right there, front and center.

462
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: That's right. So there were basic economic reasons for this

463
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: preference for coal. Coal has a higher energy density and

464
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 3: thus is more cost effective to transport across great distances.

465
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 3: So if you live in a deforested area or an

466
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: area where there was never any access to wood, this

467
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: would certainly include a lot of cities. In the industrial age,

468
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 3: both wood and coal would have to travel a great

469
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: distance to get to your home, and coal burns hotter

470
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: and longer, so you're typically going to get a lot

471
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: more bang for your buck buying coal than buying wood.

472
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 3: You know, if you're shipping wood somewhere, you have huge

473
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: amount of what you're shipping is just unburnable stuff in

474
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 3: the way to the wood, water and air and stuff

475
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 3: trapped in there. So coal is a much more or

476
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: energy dense and valuable product by weight. Of course, out

477
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: in the country, if there's still trees nearby it, it

478
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: probably makes economic sense to burn wood, whether you're gathering

479
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: it yourself from around your house or buying it from

480
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 3: somebody nearby. However, even many rural homes in Britain I

481
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: think by the nineteenth century had made the switch to

482
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 3: coal when it became available by rail lines, because it

483
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: was just a cheaper source of heat to acquire. Now,

484
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: the urban coal dominance trend has not held true everywhere

485
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 3: and at every time in history. It's not just like

486
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: once you live in a densely populated urban environment you

487
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: switch from wood to coal. From what I've been reading,

488
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: it seems like in big cities in America in the

489
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: nineteenth century, you'd find kind of a mix of coal

490
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: fired homes and wood fired homes. There were some of each,

491
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: and around the world you would have all kinds of

492
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: different pressures acting on what fuel source people used, different

493
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: local economic pressures, what types of material were available, what

494
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 3: forms of transportation for material were available. Climate, Oh, not

495
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: just the availability of wood and coal, but like what

496
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 3: types of wood and what types of coal, because that

497
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 3: makes a big difference. The coal often used in London

498
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: in the you know, the seventeenth through the nineteenth century,

499
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: would have been what they called sea coal, which was

500
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: a bituminous coal, a kind of nasty coal. And there

501
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 3: were even taste and cultural preferences about what types of

502
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: fuel to use, and these could rule the day. I

503
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 3: came across this thing of I'd never heard about this before,

504
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: but French writers in the eighteenth and nineteenth century in

505
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 3: particular talking about the use of coal fire in London

506
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 3: as just so gross. I dug up it. And there

507
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 3: was an eighteenth century book called a Tour to London

508
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,239
Speaker 3: or New Observations on England and its Inhabitants, published by

509
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: Lockyer David seventeen seventy two by an author named Pierre

510
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: Jean Grossly. Grossly was an eighteenth century French magistrate and author,

511
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: kind of a travel writer.

512
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: Of his day.

513
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 3: He wrote about Italy as well, but he wrote about

514
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: his travels in England, including a lot of amusing and

515
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: often unflattering views of London. And he really thought the

516
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 3: use of domestic coal fire made the city disgusting and miserable.

517
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: There's even a passage about how it made all the

518
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 3: food taste bad. I want to read this quote all

519
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: that grow in the country about London. Cabbage, radishes and

520
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: spinach being impregnated with the smoke of coal which fills

521
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 3: the atmosphere of that town have a very disagreeable taste

522
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: which they communicate to the meat wherewith they have been boiled.

523
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 3: I ate nothing good of this sort in London, but

524
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: some asparagus, which doubtless grew at a good distance from

525
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 3: the capitol.

526
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

527
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: And then after this, Grossly has some more general notes.

528
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: He says, quote the smoke of sea coal fires with

529
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 3: which the atmosphere of London is generally filled may be

530
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: reckoned amongst the physical causes of the melancholy of its inhabitants.

531
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 3: The terrestrial and mineral particles with which that smoke is impregnated,

532
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: insinuate themselves into the blood of those who are always

533
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: inhaling them, render it dull and heavy, and carry with

534
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: them the new principles of melancholy. Oh wow, So not

535
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 3: the only time people complained about pre modern London is

536
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: for being polluted. But I don't know, I found this

537
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: an especially evocative and targeted attack on the use of

538
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: coal in the city.

539
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's like he's saying, this is just

540
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: a problem of culture here at large. It's not just

541
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 2: that everything but the asparagus tastes bad. It's just like

542
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: it has made everybody miserable and sad.

543
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. So there are different economic pressures in different preferences

544
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: about domestic fuel sources at different times and places throughout history,

545
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 3: and of course that's changed again in the modern era.

546
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: You know, in modern homes, so that with modern forms

547
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: of heating like gas or electric furnaces or heat pumps

548
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: and houses like this, when you still have a fireplace,

549
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,239
Speaker 3: it's usually a supplemental esthetic heat source. Of course, there

550
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: will be counterexamples to this. Some homes still really need

551
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: the fireplace heat. But a lot of you know, a

552
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: lot of houses with fireplaces now don't really need them

553
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: for heating. They're just a nice thing to have. And

554
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 3: in those cases, it seems a lot of people prefer

555
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: wood for these optional fires, at least most people in

556
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 3: America do. I wonder if there's anywhere people actually have

557
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: an esthetic preference for coal fires. It seems kind of

558
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: unlikely to me, but I'd be interested to be surprised.

559
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: I would like to hear about that.

560
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: I guess one of the things about coal fires, when

561
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: you get into the technology of like Victorian era technology especially,

562
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 2: is that hot coals could then easily be transported out

563
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: of a primary fire into very like smaller stoves and

564
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: heated devices, you know. Yea, So it does have that

565
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: going for it.

566
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, And the ease of transporting you know,

567
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: a shovelful of hot coals again, I guess that's probably

568
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 3: down to the energy density of coal compared to that

569
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: of wood.

570
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, less running around indoors with flaming sticks as well.

571
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. But anyway, so this brings me to differences between

572
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 3: coal and wood as a fireplace fuel. A coal fire

573
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: will typically produce a more consistent supply of strong radiant

574
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: heat than a wood fire. From what I've read, it's

575
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 3: normal for a wood fire to maybe be hotter right

576
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 3: at the beginning is that's really blazing up. But then

577
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 3: as the wood begins to burn down, it rapidly cools

578
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: off and produces less heat over time, needing more tending

579
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: and replenishment. A coal fire is going to get you

580
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: a hot stream of radiant heat going, and it'll keep

581
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: going for a long time. And so I was reading

582
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: about this, and it made me wonder, is it possible

583
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: fire screens or fireguards were more needed in homes that

584
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: burned one type of fuel instead of the other. For example,

585
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 3: because coal puts out a steadier, longer lasting stream of

586
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: strong radiant heat. Would a coal fire be more likely

587
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: to become uncomfortable without a guard of some kind for

588
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: the face or the skin? And you know, basically, does

589
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: a coal fire more resemble a broiler aimed at the

590
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: people by the hearth side? The answer, unfortunately, is I

591
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: don't know for sure. I was looking and couldn't find

592
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 3: direct historical confirmation of this idea, but given the differences

593
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: between the heat produced by wood versus coal fires, it

594
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: seems to be plausible that there might be a kind

595
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: of different experience around a coal fire than a wood fire,

596
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: and that experience might manifest in a stronger desire to

597
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: put screens between yourself and the blaze. So yeah, if

598
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: any listeners out there have more experience it's with this

599
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: kind of thing and would like to comment on this issue,

600
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 3: I'd be interested to read your thoughts.

601
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, any field reports would be greatly appreciate.

602
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 3: Okay, Rob, if you're up for another Victorian side I

603
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: wanted to mention an interesting video I came across from

604
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 3: the UK National Archives called The Victorian Fireside, hosted by

605
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 3: a specialist with their collections named Olivia Gayjagg, and I

606
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: thought this was interesting because Gaychag makes a point in

607
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 3: this video to emphasize the cultural meaning of the fireside

608
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: for middle class homes in Victorian Britain. So this is

609
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: getting into how fire screens figured into you know, not

610
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: just fire screens, but fire screens and lots of associated

611
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: furnishings and technology. Things around the fireplace are not just

612
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 3: functional in nature, but they mean something within the cultural context,

613
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: and this is exploring that, certainly within Victorian Britain. So

614
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 3: in Victorian Britain during the wintertime, she talks about how

615
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: the hearth side was kind of a standard gathering place

616
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: for household activities. By the fire, you'd sit and talk,

617
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 3: you'd play games, you might eat meals. And in these

618
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 3: middle class Victorian homes, the hearth was usually the center

619
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 3: of the drawing room or the parlor, which was the

620
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: part of the house that arguably carried the most social

621
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 3: and cultural meaning. Basically, all people at all times in

622
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 3: some ways express who they are through the design and

623
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 3: decoration of their homes, but obviously to different extents and

624
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: in different ways. And I understand the argument here to

625
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 3: be that the Victorian drawing room or parlor was an

626
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: area of particular focus for expressing the homeliness of a

627
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: home in Victorian Britain. In gaych Egg's words quote, a

628
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 3: comfortable and well furnished drawing room became symbolic of some

629
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: of the key notions of Victorian morality. And this was

630
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 3: in one sense an inward facing message as a place

631
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: the family could gather and do things that expressed their

632
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 3: bonds as a family, you know, so they would kind

633
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: of understand themselves through this space. But it was also

634
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 3: an outward facing message as the place that would message

635
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: to guests and visitors things about the family's identity, including

636
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: everything from economic class and status to esthetic taste and

637
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,479
Speaker 3: moral values, and so these things that would communicate those

638
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 3: ideas included a lot of furnishings and decorations related to

639
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 3: the fireplace and its immediate surroundings. And fire screens are

640
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: a great example here. You could think also of all

641
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: kind you know, coal buckets that you would restock the

642
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: coal fire with, and you know metal fire guards, but

643
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: also fire screens, fire screens with the embroidery or other

644
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 3: designs on cloth. On these pole screens we've talked about,

645
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 3: these would often be a way for the female head

646
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 3: of the household to express her taste, her skill if

647
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 3: she made the design herself, which was often the case,

648
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: and moral virtues. And gay Jag highlights one particular design

649
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 3: for a pole screen, that is, it's on a pole

650
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 3: with a tripod at the base, like the other one

651
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: I was talking about earlier, but this one has baby

652
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 3: fire breathing dragons made out of iron on the three

653
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 3: studs of the tripod base. Nice and then it comes

654
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 3: up to a very actually quite small fire screen it looks,

655
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 3: you know, just small enough to block the face from

656
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 3: the fire, which has a circular embroidered design and then

657
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 3: an elaborate frame around it. But this video really makes

658
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 3: the distinction, for one thing, between fire screens like pole

659
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 3: screens and the heartier things that would more often be

660
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 3: called fire guards, citing these brass based samples. No doubt

661
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 3: these things would get very hot sitting right in front

662
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: of the fire, but those would provide more solid protection

663
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 3: against sparks or other material ejections from the fire, because again,

664
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: you know of a pole screen like this that's a

665
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 3: linen canvas or embroidered cloth or something something made out

666
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: of wood, these would obviously be highly flammable, so they

667
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: would not be something designed to go right up against

668
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: the fire. They would get scorched. So if you're talking

669
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 3: about a fire screen that goes right up against the fire,

670
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: you're going to be talking about different kinds of materials.

671
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 3: But anyway, the main point being made in this video

672
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 3: that I thought was worth noting was that at least

673
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 3: within the Victorian middle class household in Britain, the fireplace

674
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 3: and its immediate surroundings and furnishings are just a big

675
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: part of how a domestic unit expressed and understood who

676
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 3: they were. And so these decorated fire screens were not

677
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: just functional. They carried a lot of meaning and it

678
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 3: had people's identities kind of poured into them.

679
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as is often the case with these sorts

680
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: of things, sometimes the aesthetics completely dwarf any functionality that

681
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 2: it might have had, and you can see this in

682
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: some of the more elaborate designs. One that really caught

683
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: my eyes. This is one that you'll find various antiques

684
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 2: listed with varying degrees of context and information. I found

685
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: a Victorian fireplace screen on mossinfog dot com and I've

686
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: included a picture of it here for you, Joe. It

687
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: is made apparently with real taxidermide and hummingbirds, like seemingly

688
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 2: dozens of them, and I cannot tell. I couldn't tell

689
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: from the description or from certainly from the pictures whether

690
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: there is a white screen involved here because it's shot

691
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: against a white background, or if this is just open,

692
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: if it's just like little artificial branches with a bunch

693
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 2: of stuffed hummingbirds on them. In either case, this seems

694
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 2: very much like the sort of fire screen that would

695
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: maybe be in front of an inactive fireplace, or if

696
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 2: it were in front of a live fireplace, it would

697
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: be positioned good ways out. Otherwise you're just going to

698
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: roast your poor little taxidermy hummingbirds, and or it's going

699
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 2: to shine right through it.

700
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the other point. If this is in fact

701
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 3: open and not a solid screen, that's not going to

702
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: be blocking a lot of heat, and certainly the taxidermy birds,

703
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 3: I'm sure with scorch. Yeah. So yeah, I wonder about

704
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: the usage here. I wonder if there were fire screens

705
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: that were where the function in blocking the intense heat

706
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: from the fire was not really a consideration, and there

707
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: were some that were just decorative. They're just there to

708
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 3: cover up a fire screen that's not currently or cover

709
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 3: up a fire that's not currently in use, or just

710
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 3: there to i don't know, position farther away and kind

711
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: of have something nice to look at the fire through.

712
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I definitely found it just a terrific example

713
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 2: of this and an older source. I was reading Representative

714
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: metal Work by Cora Lynn Daniels and this was published

715
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: in the Decorator and Furniture eighteen eighty five. So we

716
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: can look this up. I pulled it up on jay Store,

717
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: and the paper here describes some elaborate antique fireplace elements,

718
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 2: including a salamander decorated grate, so talking about the mythic

719
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: salamander little reptilian creatures that were said to live and

720
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: emerge or be born from burning logs. And it also

721
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: highlights a fire screen that is made out of antique brass,

722
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: jewels and glass, which itself was set before a hearth

723
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: that also featured bits of colored glass placed before the fire,

724
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: but behind the fire screen. So the idea here would

725
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 2: apparently be you'd have these pieces of colored glass that

726
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: are catching the light of the roaring fire, and essentially

727
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: it's like you have a it's almost like a concert

728
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 2: light display in your home. It sounds pretty splendid. Trippy,

729
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, trippy. It's like some sort of

730
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: a trippy light effect that you might purchase nowadays. Here's

731
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 2: what the article says. Quote set before the gleaming glass

732
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: coals which shone through this gorgeous screen and one hundred

733
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: changeful hues, nothing could be imagined more effective to light

734
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: one corner or side of a room done in deep,

735
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 2: warm shade of brown crimson or maroon, or to supply

736
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: a glow of color to an apartment finished in snowy

737
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: white and gilt, although the effect of the former would

738
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: be somewhat more artistic to our thinking, it.

739
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: Seems kind of like a nineteenth century equivalent of a

740
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, lava lamp or a star projector or

741
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: something a light based curiosity.

742
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And you can tell from the illustration didn't

743
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: include a photo obviously, but an illustration of what has

744
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: looked like, and you get the sense of almost like

745
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 2: a piece of stained glass that was positioned in front

746
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 2: of the fireplace. Yeah. So at a basic level, you

747
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 2: can imagine that these screens are about just manipulating light

748
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: in the room. I have to read. There's another snippet

749
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: from this that I just found amusing though, where they're

750
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: just talking about how the popularity of various antiques and

751
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: maybe the dubious historical notes associated with them. The author writes,

752
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: to those who have a craze for the antique or

753
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: a rage for genuine old wares, it might be a

754
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: beneficent lesson to examine this modern work so superior in beauty, richness,

755
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 2: and finish to most of the things which quote came

756
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: over on the Mayflower. The author then goes on to

757
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: jestingly speculate just how many governor's chairs and tables the

758
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: Mayflower must have contained if all of the claims of

759
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 2: authenticity were correct.

760
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: Nice, but in general, I didn't even know that was

761
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: a common thing people say their furniture was on the Mayflower.

762
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: Or may I don't know. I was not aware of

763
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: this either. Maybe it was a thing around eighteen eighty

764
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: five where everyone claimed to have had antique furniture that

765
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: came over on the Mayflower, or something to that effect.

766
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 2: I think they're just basically saying, like most of a

767
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: lot of the stuff that out there is claiming to

768
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: be super old, maybe isn't as old. But at the

769
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 2: very least, I love the idea of this particular hearth

770
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 2: that the author is describing here, with its salamanders, with

771
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: its pieces of colored glass, and then this rich ornate

772
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: screen that goes in front of the fire that I

773
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: don't know. I may be just blowing it out of

774
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 2: proportion in my mind, but I'm just imagining a sitting

775
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: room lit up like a disco, and it's pretty fabulous.

776
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: I would roller skatee in that drawing. Room. That sounds cool, But.

777
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: It also sounds like the sort of innovation you might

778
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 2: employ again in an environment where a fireplace is not

779
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: a special occasion thing but something that you use all

780
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: the time during certain seasons, and therefore there would be

781
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 2: more of an effort to improve upon it and spruce

782
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 2: it up with all these varying ideas, Whereas I mean,

783
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 2: for many of us now, like if you get to

784
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: fire up the fireplace, that is the treat in and

785
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: of itself, and you are not thinking about, well, what

786
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: kind of colored lights can I throw into the scenario, But.

787
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 3: If you need it for heat every night, you might

788
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 3: be thinking like, can I get some more TV channels

789
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 3: on this?

790
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: Yes? Yeah, how do I get satellite on this hearth?

791
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 2: All right?

792
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 3: Does that do it for fire screens?

793
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: I think so? Yeah. So we present this again as

794
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: essentially kind of an episode linked sidebar for our discussion

795
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: of the heart that is now being featured involved episodes

796
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 2: hearing the stuff to blow your mind feed But we'd

797
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: love to hear from everyone out there, Folks with fireplaces,

798
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: Folks with fireplaces in their past traditions than their culture

799
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: right in, we'd love to hear from you. Maybe you

800
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: can help us understand some of these lingering questions we have.

801
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: In the meantime, we'll just remind you of this. Stuff

802
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 2: to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast,

803
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 2: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form episodes

804
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: on Wednesdays and on Fridays. We set aside most serious

805
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird House.

806
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 3: Sent huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer

807
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: JJ Posway. If you would like to get in touch

808
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

809
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 3: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

810
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 3: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff

811
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 3: to Blow your Mind dot com.

812
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,840
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813
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,720
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814
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:54,800
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