Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking smart tax planning moves with
Speaker 1: Sean Mulaney. Yeah. Sean mulaney is a financial planner c
Speaker 1: p A and the president of his own company where
Speaker 1: they offer fee only financial planning. Sean's career path took
Speaker 1: him from getting a degree at law school, landing a
Speaker 1: job with the I R S, to working for a
Speaker 1: couple of the big for accounting firms, and then finally
Speaker 1: to starting his own business UH and building it from scratch.
Speaker 1: In addition to providing a fiduciary financial advice to his clients,
Speaker 1: Sean also writes over at PHI tax guy dot com,
Speaker 1: where he blogs, of course about financial independence and taxes.
Speaker 1: And so with tax season upon us, we wanted to
Speaker 1: bring Sean on to discuss what listeners need to know
Speaker 1: about filing their taxes this year. So Sean, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us today on the podcast. Matt and Joel,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me pleasure to be here. Sean,
Speaker 1: We're so glad to have you. And the first question
Speaker 1: we ask everybody that comes on the show is gives
Speaker 1: us like a window and the kind of person you
Speaker 1: are and Matt and I we drink a craft beer
Speaker 1: on every episode because we love beer and it's one
Speaker 1: of the things that we're willing to splore john now
Speaker 1: while we're also saving and investing intentionally for the future. So, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: what is that in your life? What's your craft beer equivalent?
Speaker 1: In my life, it would be travel to Hawaii. So
Speaker 1: I grew up on the East Coast, and until my
Speaker 1: honeymoon three years ago, I had never been to Hawaii,
Speaker 1: and now that I live in California, Hawaii is very
Speaker 1: accessible and my wife and I have now been twice,
Speaker 1: and in after coronavirus, I'd like to get back. And
Speaker 1: these days, actually a little uh side diversion I have
Speaker 1: is occasionally watching on YouTube some why travel videos. It's
Speaker 1: just a great place, so many different types of environments
Speaker 1: and leisure activities. So in my life, vacations in Hawaii
Speaker 1: would be my sort of craft beer equivalent. For you guys,
Speaker 1: I'm jealous because you can get their way cheaper than
Speaker 1: I can from the East Coast. What's the typical affordable ticket.
Speaker 1: What's a good price for you? Well, boy, it would
Speaker 1: be like maybe four dollars would be a good price
Speaker 1: where we've had some savings is through thank you points.
Speaker 1: My wife has credit card points that were able to
Speaker 1: use for accommodations, So that's sort of where we get
Speaker 1: the financial savings. In terms of going to Hawaii. Airfare
Speaker 1: is still relatively expensive though that was certainly true before coronavirus,
Speaker 1: and I suspect it's going to be true after coronavirus.
Speaker 1: Well let's not. Let's let's dive into some of this.
Speaker 1: Some tax talk got quiet and educational and and and
Speaker 1: work history. How did you kind of like make the
Speaker 1: jump from the corporate world to doing your own thing
Speaker 1: to starting your own business. Yeah, so I've always been
Speaker 1: been interested in personal finance. It's always been sort of
Speaker 1: a hobby of mine. And I had a career in
Speaker 1: corporate tax that really treated me well. It was a
Speaker 1: great career. I got to travel to different client sites
Speaker 1: and different parts of our country. Um, but I always
Speaker 1: had that sort of longing to do my own thing
Speaker 1: and to go more on the personal individual side of finance.
Speaker 1: And so eventually I saved up some money and decided
Speaker 1: to leave big four accounting and start out my own venture.
Speaker 1: And I set up my own registered investment advisor firm
Speaker 1: I've been doing it as of this recording being released
Speaker 1: a little over two years and it's been a great adventure.
Speaker 1: And you know, recently I listened to a podcast where
Speaker 1: it was someone who has their own business and they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: well we've been doing it for two years, so we're
Speaker 1: really only just beginning, and that wrung true to me.
Speaker 1: I said, Wow, isn't that interesting there two years in.
Speaker 1: I'm not even two years in and there's saying they're
Speaker 1: just beginning, and I think it is. There is that
Speaker 1: piece of your learning the business of the business, right,
Speaker 1: So you know, I provide financial advice to clients, but
Speaker 1: I'm also building my own business and there's always lessons
Speaker 1: to be learned in terms of building your own business,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure Matt and Joel, you guys learned lessons
Speaker 1: every day. We like to think, Okay, I know this
Speaker 1: business and I can run this you know, no problem.
Speaker 1: There's nothing new under the sun, And it turns out
Speaker 1: when you're running your own business, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: new things to be thinking about in terms of how
Speaker 1: you run your business, all right, So I totally agree
Speaker 1: Matt and I were learning every single day about you know,
Speaker 1: working together too. Especially when you're working for someone else
Speaker 1: and you're not a solo preneurs. There's an element of
Speaker 1: that right of partnership. But yeah, Sean, what have you learned, Like,
Speaker 1: what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned in
Speaker 1: the first couple of years kind of getting up to speed.
Speaker 1: I would say having grace with myself in terms of results. Right. So,
Speaker 1: I think there's this impression when you work in corporate America, right,
Speaker 1: that we're always going to be successful, and we're always
Speaker 1: going to meet our numbers, and we're never going to
Speaker 1: make a mistake, especially in terms of UM client acceptance.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you one example. No is a very
Speaker 1: powerful term when you're a solo preneurs, right, because there
Speaker 1: are times where opportunities come to you and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I take this opportunity, I'm going to make one X.
Speaker 1: But if I say no to this opportunity, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be able to say yes to another opportunity which
Speaker 1: will pay me two X or three X. I think
Speaker 1: when you work in W two Corporate America, there's this
Speaker 1: pressure to always say yes to any new assignment, to
Speaker 1: any new challenge. In being a solo preneurs. I've found
Speaker 1: that sometimes no is the most powerful term, because yes,
Speaker 1: you're saying no to one opportunity, but by saying no
Speaker 1: to that opportunity, you're saying yes to something that could
Speaker 1: get you two or three times the amount of revenue
Speaker 1: or rate per hour or whatever. Is So the power
Speaker 1: of no is so important, and it's something we're not
Speaker 1: conditioned to say. We're conditioned to say yes to our teachers,
Speaker 1: our professors, our parents growing up. And then it's like
Speaker 1: you become your own business person, and you probably better
Speaker 1: be saying no because if you just say yes all
Speaker 1: the time, you're gonna take work that probably isn't the
Speaker 1: work you should be doing. Yeah, not just from from
Speaker 1: an income standpoint, but from a just a self fulfillment
Speaker 1: standpoint to you, right, you know, and Sean, I feel
Speaker 1: like this kind of leads into maybe your definition of
Speaker 1: financial independence, which you know you mentioned on your site.
Speaker 1: It's not about getting rich. So what does financial independence
Speaker 1: mean to you? What's your what's your definition? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: my definition of financial independence is arranging your finances so
Speaker 1: that other things in life can take the priority. Right,
Speaker 1: So I believe what you're trying to do in financial
Speaker 1: independence is get to a place where you have more
Speaker 1: options for the things that really matter in your life,
Speaker 1: whether that's your spouse, your children, travel, charity, um, working
Speaker 1: a more flexible schedule, right, all these sorts of things
Speaker 1: as opposed to um, Hey, I have a fine number, right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get thirty times my expenses every year,
Speaker 1: or twenty times my expenses every year, or twenty five times.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that, right. There are plenty of
Speaker 1: people in the fine movement, the five community, whatever you
Speaker 1: wanna call it, that say, my goal is to get
Speaker 1: twenty five times of my annual expenses, and that's financial
Speaker 1: independence for me. I think that's great. But for me,
Speaker 1: it's more about let's make good decisions in our financial
Speaker 1: life that gives us better financial outcomes over the long run,
Speaker 1: that gives us more options for the things that matter,
Speaker 1: for our faith, for our family, for charity, for travel,
Speaker 1: all those sorts of things. Yeah, it's a nice holistic
Speaker 1: beau Sean. I appreciate your perspective on financial independence because, yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes it can be all about the numbers, and you know,
Speaker 1: we leave behind real life in the process. Um, And
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about taxes too. That's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: spend most of the rest of this episode talking to
Speaker 1: you about. And the real reason that we want to
Speaker 1: talk about taxes is because there's a lot of money
Speaker 1: on the line, and some of the money moves you
Speaker 1: make will affect your how quickly you're able to reach
Speaker 1: financial independence, maybe as an end goal, right, but also
Speaker 1: in the interim, how that affects your life. So to
Speaker 1: put things in perspective for folks, how much money could
Speaker 1: like the typical American household be unnecessarily paying in taxes?
Speaker 1: How much could poor tax planning actually be costing us? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think it's it's hard to exactly quantify it.
Speaker 1: I look at it in two buckets, right. One bucket
Speaker 1: is what I'll call tax optimization. So folks, for example,
Speaker 1: I've seen it where folks leave something like a roth
Speaker 1: ira on the table, right, So they qualified to contribute
Speaker 1: to a roth ira. They had the money to do it,
Speaker 1: but they didn't do it. Right, So the money remains
Speaker 1: in taxable accounts in any one year, that's only gonna
Speaker 1: cost you a relatively modest sum that will build up
Speaker 1: over time. Right, So that's going to be very dependent
Speaker 1: on just how much income you have what your marginal
Speaker 1: tax bracket is. But you know, let's just say you
Speaker 1: for went, you know, for went roth Ira a contributions
Speaker 1: of six thousand dollars over a decade. That's sixty tho
Speaker 1: dollars at least that could have been in a rath.
Speaker 1: That's now in taxable accounts. You know, even at a
Speaker 1: two percent yield, that's twelve dollars of dividend income every year.
Speaker 1: That's now going to hit your tax return every year.
Speaker 1: Even at a qualified rate of say fifteen per cent,
Speaker 1: we're talking about two hundred dollars of leakage every year.
Speaker 1: That's compounding. Right now, That's not the end of the world. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's still ways to get to say financial independence or
Speaker 1: retirements if you're not optimized. That's one example. Here's the
Speaker 1: second example, though, what I'll call um tax problems. And
Speaker 1: where this is is, hey, you know, um, this isn't
Speaker 1: a roth Ira. This is I'm going to set up
Speaker 1: my own business. I'm going to set up my own
Speaker 1: s corporation and I'm not going to work with a professional,
Speaker 1: And so what do I miss? Maybe I miss paying
Speaker 1: myself a reasonable compensation out of that s corporation. Maybe
Speaker 1: I miss my solo four O one K, or I
Speaker 1: what I do is I over contribute to my solo
Speaker 1: four O one K. Now I have excess contribution taxes.
Speaker 1: Now I have planned disqualification I have to worry about.
Speaker 1: Now I have remediation costs. When the I R S
Speaker 1: comes in and says your solo four one K is
Speaker 1: no good or you have to go apply for they
Speaker 1: call it the voluntary compliance program to solve that or
Speaker 1: fix that solo four one K, or the I R
Speaker 1: S comes in and audits you and says you owe
Speaker 1: all these back payroll tax taxes plus interest on that right.
Speaker 1: So that's where it's like, hey, you know, if I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be a little more sophisticated in my life, that's fine,
Speaker 1: But that's sort of an addition of you know, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, I should get a professional involved in my
Speaker 1: life just to make sure I'm not missing opportunities and
Speaker 1: I'm complying with the law in such a way that
Speaker 1: the I R S can't come back to me and say, hey,
Speaker 1: where's all those payroll taxes you know you owe us?
Speaker 1: Where you know you put too much in your soul
Speaker 1: for one k you know, you have to withdraw that
Speaker 1: and pay attax and deal with that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think it's two buckets Matt and Joel. It's
Speaker 1: a little hard to quantify because it is so specific
Speaker 1: to your situation, but you know, I look at it
Speaker 1: as with some advance planning. You can say, on the
Speaker 1: right side of the I R S and take advantage
Speaker 1: of all the legal opportunities you have to build wealth
Speaker 1: in a tax advantage matter. Yeah, yeah, it's not just
Speaker 1: about the savings here now or a month a month,
Speaker 1: but I mean the amount that you could be kind
Speaker 1: of screwing yourself over could be I mean, theoretically it
Speaker 1: could be infinite. You know, Like I guess, it just
Speaker 1: kind of depends on how let you are earning, because
Speaker 1: a tax mistake for for Bezos is gonna look a
Speaker 1: lot different than a tax mistake for Joel. Well, and
Speaker 1: another thing to think about is just the concept of
Speaker 1: tax insurance. Right, So the idea of a roth ira,
Speaker 1: for example, it's such a great idea in part because
Speaker 1: you lock in today's relatively low tax rates. We don't
Speaker 1: know what tax rates are going to be in the future.
Speaker 1: It could be that they come down, but considering the
Speaker 1: federal deficit and other factors, it may be that tax
Speaker 1: rates go up, and it may be that you're gonna
Speaker 1: live years. Wouldn't it be nice to get into your
Speaker 1: eighties or nineties and just know that you have tax
Speaker 1: free accounts that are growing tax free. You never have
Speaker 1: to worry about requirementum distributions, You never have to worry
Speaker 1: about tax rate increases. To my mind, it's like, let's
Speaker 1: get some tax insurance, you know, let's do some good
Speaker 1: tax planning to get money into tax free accounts if
Speaker 1: we can. And you know what if tax rates never
Speaker 1: go up, well, it's insurance, right. It's like when we
Speaker 1: pay our auto insurance bill every you know year. We
Speaker 1: hope we never use it, right, we hope it's a
Speaker 1: waste of money. Yep, knowing that I don't need the
Speaker 1: case that yeah, um, we're never going to use this,
Speaker 1: but very likely we may have to use it at
Speaker 1: some point, and we're gonna be glad we did that
Speaker 1: if we ever have to, uh, you know, to be
Speaker 1: worried about increasing tax rates. Right. Yeah. And so you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about some different situations here depending on the person.
Speaker 1: But you know, for you, as someone who helps other
Speaker 1: people with their you know, with their taxes. Can you
Speaker 1: give some thoughts on like when doesn't make sense then
Speaker 1: to do your own taxes and when people need to
Speaker 1: maybe hire someone to help them file their taxes. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: if your tax planning is limited to I have a
Speaker 1: W two, I contribute to my four O one K,
Speaker 1: I contribute to a roth iarra, I'm well within the
Speaker 1: income limits of contributing to a roth DIARRAE. That doesn't
Speaker 1: scream out higher. A tax return prepare doesn't mean you
Speaker 1: shouldn't write at all levels of sophistication. You should consider
Speaker 1: hiring a tax return prepare. But some indisha that you
Speaker 1: might want to hire a tax return prepare often involved
Speaker 1: things like self employment, having your own business, possibly having
Speaker 1: a side hustle. Those are in disha that boy, I
Speaker 1: might need to um hire a tax return prepare. Another
Speaker 1: one would be life changes. Right, so I have my
Speaker 1: first child, I get married, I have a death in
Speaker 1: the family, some big change in my life. I buy
Speaker 1: a house for the first time. That could also be
Speaker 1: an indisha that you know what, maybe I want to
Speaker 1: hire a professional to do my tax return this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Sean on your blog you've written about how looking
Speaker 1: at your return from the prior year can actually help
Speaker 1: you when it comes to filing your taxes for the
Speaker 1: current year. Absolutely, when you're doing that, like if you're
Speaker 1: trying to d I y uh, one are the things
Speaker 1: you need to be looking out for from a prior
Speaker 1: year's return so that you can do it yourself. So
Speaker 1: I would look at things like, did I file a
Speaker 1: Schedule C, right, so that is self employment income? Did
Speaker 1: I file file a Schedule E that's usually rent and
Speaker 1: royalty type income. UM. I would look at things like
Speaker 1: h S A S. Did I take an hs A distribution? Right?
Speaker 1: If I'm young and healthy and I took an hs
Speaker 1: A distribution, that could be a planning opportunity that no,
Speaker 1: I want to in the future keep that money in
Speaker 1: the hs A to grow tax free for a long time.
Speaker 1: I would look at my scheduled D. So their scheduled
Speaker 1: D is for capital gains and losses. UM. There's a
Speaker 1: box on there for something called capital gain distributions. While
Speaker 1: I'm not here to give anyone investment advice on this podcast,
Speaker 1: i will say capital gain distributions are sort of the
Speaker 1: boogeyman of the investing world. Right. So these are distributions
Speaker 1: where you have a mutual fund or an e t
Speaker 1: F and it generates these things called capital gain distributions
Speaker 1: because there were sales inside the mutual fund. Some of
Speaker 1: them are unavoidable, right, So having some capital gain distribution
Speaker 1: is unavoidable if you're gonna invest in taxable brokerage accounts,
Speaker 1: perfectly fine. But if you've got a big number in
Speaker 1: that capital gain distribution UM box, you might want to
Speaker 1: think about, Hey, is there a way I could reallocate
Speaker 1: my portfolio? You know, in in a tax advantage manner,
Speaker 1: you still gotta worry about gain on the sale of
Speaker 1: that would be generated if you reallocate it. But maybe
Speaker 1: you have a loss in that security and it generated
Speaker 1: capital gain distributions that can happen. Maybe there's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to do some reallocation of my portfolio if I've got
Speaker 1: a big number in that box. So those are just
Speaker 1: a few examples. Like you said, I blogged about this.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a way of let me
Speaker 1: take a look at last year's tax return with a
Speaker 1: critical eye. Maybe there's some planning that that tax return
Speaker 1: will reveal to me. That's good, that's good. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's good to see who needs to consider maybe some
Speaker 1: professional help. You know, It's something we talked about here
Speaker 1: often on the show. How there's a lot of the
Speaker 1: basics that you need to know that you can figure
Speaker 1: out yourself, but when it comes to to tax law
Speaker 1: and how that's kind of constantly shifting and and just
Speaker 1: all the fine nuances, sometimes that does make sense to
Speaker 1: bring on a professional. Uh, you know, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about the massive impact that doing your taxes can can
Speaker 1: have on you. And so actually after the break, we're
Speaker 1: gonna dive into what it is that we need to
Speaker 1: pay attention to when it comes to filing your twenty
Speaker 1: twenty taxes. We'll get to that right after the break.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back and we are one month out
Speaker 1: from tax day, and that's part of the reason we
Speaker 1: wanted to have Sean Millennial to talk about smart tax
Speaker 1: planning moves and Sean. Before we dive into some of
Speaker 1: the specifics that people need to think through when it
Speaker 1: comes to tax specific issues, I kind of want to
Speaker 1: ask you something. A question is just a little more broad. Uh.
Speaker 1: If we put I think maybe too much emphasis on
Speaker 1: tax planning, are we potentially letting the tail wag the dog.
Speaker 1: I know that that's a concern that some people have,
Speaker 1: is that maybe they're thinking about out taxes too much,
Speaker 1: they're overthinking it, They're they're trying to get their tax
Speaker 1: bill down so hard that they're forgetting some of the
Speaker 1: other things that are important in life. How much of
Speaker 1: an emphasis should we be putting on tax planning in
Speaker 1: our lives. Very much agree that we don't want to
Speaker 1: let the tax tail wag the dog. Right, So your
Speaker 1: goal is something like financial independence. Maybe it's retirement at
Speaker 1: a certain age, maybe it's funding the purchase of a home. Right,
Speaker 1: you have financial goals. Your goal isn't to get the
Speaker 1: latest and greatest tax planning technique and get that on
Speaker 1: your tax return. Right. That's a tactic that, in many
Speaker 1: cases maybe a great tactic. I'll give you one example,
Speaker 1: tax planning for your kids. I see this a lot
Speaker 1: in the world as I talked to prospective clients social media.
Speaker 1: Folks want to do tax planning that would benefit their children,
Speaker 1: and I think that's okay, But I think you should
Speaker 1: take care of your own finances first. I think that's
Speaker 1: the sort of thing if you're a financial independence go ahead,
Speaker 1: and start thinking about tax planning for your kids. But
Speaker 1: if you're you know, in your late twenties, early thirties,
Speaker 1: you've got a four year old and a two year
Speaker 1: year old at home, and you're doing fine, but you're
Speaker 1: nowhere near financial independence. Any tax planning that's for your
Speaker 1: children I would put off, even if it's for college savings, right,
Speaker 1: I would invest in your own taxable brokerage accounts. You
Speaker 1: can mentally segregate that is, that's for junior's college education,
Speaker 1: but it's in our name, and it's our asset. And
Speaker 1: if we do really good financially and they turn eighteen
Speaker 1: and they need money for college, we can tap into
Speaker 1: that resource and pay for some or all of their college.
Speaker 1: But maybe at age eighteen, we aren't doing so well.
Speaker 1: Mom and Dad's finances aren't so good. Isn't it good
Speaker 1: that we've put that in our own accounts so that
Speaker 1: we can help ourselves. The best gift you can give
Speaker 1: financially to your children is stabilizing your own finances. Your
Speaker 1: kids have plenty of time to pay for their own college.
Speaker 1: You want to make sure your finances are stabilized. And
Speaker 1: once that happens, you get to say financial independence, then
Speaker 1: start thinking about maybe some tax planning for your kids
Speaker 1: if you qualify. And it's the right answer. I love it.
Speaker 1: That's a great example, and so shout, let's let's talk. Now,
Speaker 1: let's shift to right that there are some specific tax
Speaker 1: issues that have come up because of the year that
Speaker 1: is formally known as I guess now referring to it
Speaker 1: down the review, I don't know, but uh so, first,
Speaker 1: for tax paper payers out there who haven't received their
Speaker 1: full stimulus payment, how do they go about receiving what
Speaker 1: they are entitled to? So there is an opportunity to
Speaker 1: potentially receive more of the stimulus. Right, everybody thinks of
Speaker 1: the stimulus as those checks or direct deposits that came
Speaker 1: from the I R S during but it turns out
Speaker 1: what it is is it's a tax credit on your
Speaker 1: tax return that was essentially prepaid by the I R S.
Speaker 1: And so what you want to be thinking about is
Speaker 1: how much money did I make in twenty and if
Speaker 1: I made less money twenty than I did in nineteen,
Speaker 1: that's one example there might be an opportunity to actually
Speaker 1: get more stimulus tax credit. Let me give you a
Speaker 1: brief example. I've written about this on my blog. But
Speaker 1: let's just say in twenty nine in you know, it's
Speaker 1: a married couple no children. They did really well in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, so they had two D twenty thousand of
Speaker 1: adjusted gross income. Based on that adjusted gross income number,
Speaker 1: they got no stimulus check from the I R S. Right,
Speaker 1: Let's just assume that's all true. Let's also say that
Speaker 1: one of those spouses in lost their job for a
Speaker 1: while because of coronavirus. Okay, so they're adjusted gross income
Speaker 1: went from two D twenty thousand to one fifty six
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Okay, when they filed their twenty twenty tax return,
Speaker 1: they're gonna get a whole lot of that stimulus because
Speaker 1: they're below the phase out ranges forgetting the stimulus. And
Speaker 1: not only that, they may have an additional tax planning opportunity.
Speaker 1: Let's just say they got no stimulus money. There's they've
Speaker 1: drafted their tax return. It says one fifty six thousand
Speaker 1: of adjusted gross income. What could they do? They could
Speaker 1: if one of them was not covered by an employer
Speaker 1: retirement plan, which is very possible stay at home spouse.
Speaker 1: It could be you work for a small employer. They
Speaker 1: don't have a retirement plan. That couple could write a
Speaker 1: six thousand dollar check to a deductible traditional I RA
Speaker 1: that would lower their adjusted gross income to a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand. They would save probably federal income tax
Speaker 1: because they just have a deduction, but because the way
Speaker 1: of the way the stimulus was structured, they would save
Speaker 1: an additional ten percent on their federal income tax because
Speaker 1: they would get six hundred dollars in that example of
Speaker 1: six thousand as additional stimulus. So in though they're in
Speaker 1: the federal income tax bracket, by writing that six thousand
Speaker 1: dollar check to the traditional IRA and deducting it before
Speaker 1: April fift and again this assumes that this is the
Speaker 1: spouse who is not covered by a workplace plan. They
Speaker 1: save one thou on their federal income tax orty. That's
Speaker 1: pretty good. And here's what they could even do after that.
Speaker 1: For one, they could convert that back to a roth
Speaker 1: IRA and assuming they are still in the tax bracket,
Speaker 1: that would come back into income at a two percent hit.
Speaker 1: That's one thousand, three twenty dollars, so they would save
Speaker 1: twenty on tax return. They would pay Uncle Sam twenty
Speaker 1: on the one tax return. They would net six hundred
Speaker 1: dollars uh in federal tax savings, and the money winds
Speaker 1: up in a roth IRA anyway, So there's certainly some
Speaker 1: planning opportunities to maybe max mise your stimulus if you
Speaker 1: didn't get the full check back in Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like sean, lowering your adjusted gross income has always been
Speaker 1: an important tactic, right, Taking advantage of those tax advantaged
Speaker 1: accounts retirement accounts to lower, you know, the income that
Speaker 1: you report on your tax return is a great move
Speaker 1: to lower your tax burden in the here and now,
Speaker 1: But it feels like it's it's even more important these days,
Speaker 1: kind of like you were just talking about the implication
Speaker 1: that it can have on stimulus payments or healthcare subsidies
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe what what you're able to qualify
Speaker 1: for in financial aid from colleges. So yeah, like, can
Speaker 1: you talk more about maybe how the added importance of
Speaker 1: lowering your AGI these days? And then yeah, are there
Speaker 1: any uh, with a month left to go before the
Speaker 1: tax filing deadline, how can people um basically lower their
Speaker 1: a GI even more? Uh? Legally of course? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: a g I adjusted gross income or a related concept,
Speaker 1: modified adjusted gross income. It's sort of test in the
Speaker 1: eternal Revenue Code for many different benefits, qualification perhaps to
Speaker 1: contribute to a roth IRA, UM premium tax credit for
Speaker 1: UM Affordable Care Act subsidies, right, these sorts of things
Speaker 1: UM the ability to to deduct certain things. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think what you want to be thinking about is, yeah,
Speaker 1: are there ways to advantageously lower my adjusted gross income
Speaker 1: because that's going to have a sort of a ripple
Speaker 1: effect on other tax benefits that will help me realize
Speaker 1: more tax savings. And so you know, there are different
Speaker 1: ways to do it, but by you know, by now
Speaker 1: March of it could be a little difficult. But you
Speaker 1: want to be looking at things like, hey, did I
Speaker 1: have a high deductible health plan back in could I
Speaker 1: maybe write a check to it for any uncontributed amount?
Speaker 1: Things like do I qualify for a deductible traditional IRA
Speaker 1: and doesn't make sense in my case? Right, There's all
Speaker 1: some planning that could be done, something like maybe a
Speaker 1: set by array or solo for one K if I'm
Speaker 1: self employed. There's limited opportunities there, but there can be
Speaker 1: some opportunities. So there are things that are still available
Speaker 1: in twenty one for the tax year. But you also
Speaker 1: want to be thinking about that going forward. Right, Maybe
Speaker 1: I want to be thinking about that now fore, someone
Speaker 1: I mean in a even better position for those years
Speaker 1: I'm thinking too. Does it make sense for folks to
Speaker 1: file their taxes as soon as possible if they did
Speaker 1: see their income dramatically declined last year, in order to
Speaker 1: show that they're eligible for for any additional stimulus. So
Speaker 1: let me give you the example of somebody who did
Speaker 1: much worse in than they did in. Right, there was
Speaker 1: a layoff that person might want to accelerate filing their
Speaker 1: tax return for so as to get that to a
Speaker 1: g I on record with the I R S. And
Speaker 1: the flip is true too, Right, So it might be
Speaker 1: that economy change in ways that very much benefited you
Speaker 1: in your income went way up. Maybe you want to
Speaker 1: delay filing your tax return. So any stimulus is based
Speaker 1: on depends on each person's facts and circumstances. One thing
Speaker 1: to keep in mind, you can file an extension of
Speaker 1: time to file your tax return to October fifteen. Everybody
Speaker 1: is allowed to do that. One thing you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to do is to delay the payment of any taxes due.
Speaker 1: So if you want to extend the time to file
Speaker 1: the tax return. Go ahead and do that, but remember
Speaker 1: by April fifteenth, regardless of whether you file your return
Speaker 1: or you extend your return, you gotta pay in to
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam and your state taxing authority. So make sure
Speaker 1: you make that payment. You know, do an estimate of
Speaker 1: your tax your taxbill, income and your taxes and make
Speaker 1: a sufficient payment just to make sure you're paid in
Speaker 1: by April. Well, we've talked here about some of the specifics.
Speaker 1: Next here, right after the break, we're going to ask
Speaker 1: some higher level questions maybe about and you kind of
Speaker 1: touched on this a little bit earlier and you kind
Speaker 1: of got us thinking, but we want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about I guess when it makes sense to pay
Speaker 1: tax now versus you know, paying tax later. We're gonna
Speaker 1: kind of get to some of those questions surrounding optimization
Speaker 1: right when it comes to your taxes. So we'll get
Speaker 1: to that right after the break. All right, we're back.
Speaker 1: We're still talking taxes and tax planning with Sean Mulaney
Speaker 1: and U. Sean, you did touch on this earlier, but
Speaker 1: I want to kind of go back to it and
Speaker 1: dive just a little bit deeper. Most people think about
Speaker 1: taxes on a year by year basis, like what do
Speaker 1: I owe this year? What will I own next year?
Speaker 1: And they're not thinking about it as holistically as they
Speaker 1: could be. Um, maybe about taxes across a multiple year
Speaker 1: span or even potentially across their entire lifetime. Right, But
Speaker 1: but how can we keep the our future tax liability
Speaker 1: in mind so that we can make smart tax planning moves? Now, Joel,
Speaker 1: let's a great question. I like to think about reducing
Speaker 1: total lifetime taxes, and that's especially true in this new
Speaker 1: environment for W two workers. Right, there are some deductions
Speaker 1: you can add onto a tax return today, but for
Speaker 1: the most part, it's not about hey, I save so
Speaker 1: much this year because I got this great new deduction.
Speaker 1: It's really about what can I do to reduce total
Speaker 1: lifetime taxation? And so some of that is retirement savings planning, right, So,
Speaker 1: whether that's a raw I R, a so called backdoor
Speaker 1: roth IRA A UH four oh one KS four or
Speaker 1: three B S four fifty seven's at work things like
Speaker 1: solo four one case and self employment and those sorts
Speaker 1: of things. I think what you want to do is
Speaker 1: think about what are those ways that I can optimize
Speaker 1: so that later in life when I'm getting passive income,
Speaker 1: I'm getting distributions from retirement accounts, social Security, those sorts
Speaker 1: of things. How can I make sure that later in
Speaker 1: life I'm in a relatively low tax bracket and so
Speaker 1: some of that, some of that is opportunistic planning. Right,
Speaker 1: So maybe I have a low tax year, right, something
Speaker 1: like happens, I get laid off. Maybe I do some
Speaker 1: ROTH conversions in that year, right, Um, maybe I just
Speaker 1: make sure that I'm contributing lots to h S A
Speaker 1: S four one ks roth dior raise. It's just thinking
Speaker 1: long term as opposed to that instant gratification of I'm
Speaker 1: going to go search for the latest and greatest tax deduction.
Speaker 1: I think long term planning is the best type of
Speaker 1: tax planning. Yeah, and you know you just you mentioned
Speaker 1: roth conversions. This is something we've talked about maybe on
Speaker 1: the show a while ago. And obviously that's when you
Speaker 1: convert funds from a traditional IRA to a ROTH. But
Speaker 1: can you explain to our listeners what the advantage is
Speaker 1: of doing that specifically, Like you said, if you had
Speaker 1: a down year, maybe when you didn't make quite as
Speaker 1: much money. Yeah, So two points on that one is
Speaker 1: just a simple tax arbitrage play, right. So maybe you
Speaker 1: had a coronavirus type year you got laid off off,
Speaker 1: or maybe you went back to grad school, right, or
Speaker 1: maybe you're an earlier retirement, and so when you do
Speaker 1: your tax return, it doesn't show a whole lot of income.
Speaker 1: Maybe it shows a little part time job, a little
Speaker 1: interest from the bank, and it's like, oh, actually, I'm
Speaker 1: not reporting much taxbill income at all. Here. I'm in
Speaker 1: maybe the ten percent federal tax bracket. Where I should
Speaker 1: do before your end is convert some old traditional retirement accounts,
Speaker 1: usually a traditional irara to a rath I r A.
Speaker 1: In many cases that's fully taxable, right. But the idea
Speaker 1: is I'm gonna affirmatively get taxed in a year I'm
Speaker 1: subject to, say a ten percent or twelve percent federal
Speaker 1: income tax bracket, so that years down the road, when
Speaker 1: I withdraw that, it's gonna be tax free as long
Speaker 1: as I do it right. But let's assume I'm gonna
Speaker 1: withdraw that years down the road, I shouldn't have any
Speaker 1: problem as long as I'm withdrawing it after age fifty
Speaker 1: nine and a half, and I likely may not even
Speaker 1: have any problem if I withdraw it before age fifty
Speaker 1: nine and a half. You gotta threw the needle a
Speaker 1: little more there. But regard list, what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: do is move my income into those years when I'm
Speaker 1: on at a low tax bracket. The other piece of
Speaker 1: this is growth. Right, So let's say I have a
Speaker 1: half million dollars in a traditional retirement account today. Who
Speaker 1: knows what that thing is going to grow to? Right,
Speaker 1: Maybe that thing grows to one point five million, two
Speaker 1: million if I live long enough. That's very possible. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be nice to get that growth outside of taxable,
Speaker 1: outside US taxation. One of the ways I do that
Speaker 1: is through Roth conversions, So you know, there it may be, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm affirmatively leaning into paying a lot of
Speaker 1: tax today to get all that growth out. Now, again,
Speaker 1: your your circumstances may vary on that, but again, getting
Speaker 1: that growth out of taxation is also very valuable. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about like business taxes here for a second, to
Speaker 1: and business retirement plans specifically you mentioned earlier on in
Speaker 1: the podcast Solar Foreign Case and set by Raise And
Speaker 1: you know, Matt and I we've actually, you know, I
Speaker 1: I recently left the corporate world. I had the suite
Speaker 1: access to a Vanguard four oh one K. No longer
Speaker 1: have that, UM, But now we're talking about what it
Speaker 1: looks like to have our own business retirement plan. We've
Speaker 1: batted around solo four oh one K set by RA.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'd love kind of your opinion, Trunks. I
Speaker 1: think you're actually in the middle of writing a book
Speaker 1: about solo four one ks and so yeah, how would
Speaker 1: you suggest businesses think through which plans they which plan
Speaker 1: the institute UM, A solo preneurs or you know, a
Speaker 1: joint effort like Matt and I. Yes. So the first
Speaker 1: thing you need to think about, Joel is qualification. Right,
Speaker 1: you are able to do a solo four one K
Speaker 1: or set by r A as long, generally speaking, as
Speaker 1: you have no other employees and there's actually there's tax
Speaker 1: rules on that and their plan rules on that. So
Speaker 1: there's a tax rule in terms of what an employee is,
Speaker 1: but it may be that the plan has a different
Speaker 1: rule for what an employee is. I know of at
Speaker 1: least one solo four one K. Any non spouse employees
Speaker 1: for one minute, is an employee? Right, That's not the taxual,
Speaker 1: that's a plan rule. So you always want to be
Speaker 1: thinking about qualification. But let's assume you qualify for both
Speaker 1: a set BI or A and a Solo for one K.
Speaker 1: In such cases, I generally prefer the Solo four one K.
Speaker 1: Why do I say that the solo for one K
Speaker 1: has both employe and employ your contributions. The SETPI RA
Speaker 1: only has employ your contributions. And so it's going to
Speaker 1: be the case that you're generally able to contribute more
Speaker 1: to a Solo four one K than you are to
Speaker 1: a set BI or a other feature. About a solo
Speaker 1: for one K, it has the Rath option, right, Different
Speaker 1: plans may not offer that, but you can find solo
Speaker 1: for one K plans that have the Wroth option. So
Speaker 1: maybe you do a Roth employee contribution and then a
Speaker 1: deductible employer contribution. I've blogged about this issue. There's a
Speaker 1: blog post on my site that talks about the set
Speaker 1: BI RA versus the solo for one K. Long story short,
Speaker 1: If you qualify for both, you ought to very seriously
Speaker 1: consider the Solo four one K. And here's one last point.
Speaker 1: October is a big month for this, right If you
Speaker 1: haven't thought about solo four one case, set BI or
Speaker 1: a retirement plans. No later than October. Would I say,
Speaker 1: all right, let me see how much money I've made,
Speaker 1: and should I set up a solo four one K
Speaker 1: for the year. If you have an S corporations, probably
Speaker 1: earlier than October. But if you're self employed or you
Speaker 1: have a partnership, maybe it's more like, all right in October.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be very intentional around this. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: wait to the next tax year. I'm not gonna wait
Speaker 1: till the filing deadline. I'm gonna get out in front
Speaker 1: of this before year end. I'm gonna make my arrangements,
Speaker 1: make sure everything is in place so that way I'm
Speaker 1: not scrambling before I file my tax return. So get
Speaker 1: out in front of this stuff. Especially if you're self employed.
Speaker 1: October is sort of a good um place or time
Speaker 1: to do that. For an S corporation, it's probably as
Speaker 1: early as possible in the year. Um, just a few
Speaker 1: thoughts on that whole solo four one cave versus set
Speaker 1: by Ray uh discussion, gotcha, Yeah, that's that's good to note.
Speaker 1: You make sure you get ahead of this thing before
Speaker 1: this fall. But you know, set, speaking of scrambling, you know,
Speaker 1: folks are often kind of scrambling at the end of
Speaker 1: the year to make tax moves, oftentimes just because we've
Speaker 1: forgotten to to do proper tax planning throughout the year.
Speaker 1: And so what can people start doing right now so
Speaker 1: that they aren't freaking out calm December at the end
Speaker 1: of the year or even come April, you know, right
Speaker 1: before actual tax filing deadlines. A couple of things on
Speaker 1: that one, like we talked about earlier, is get your
Speaker 1: tax return file for okay, and let's assume you're able
Speaker 1: to do that relatively soon. Then take a week or
Speaker 1: two off, and then review that tax return. Where are
Speaker 1: the weaknesses? Where is it, Oh, we took distributions from
Speaker 1: a H S A and that sounds like that might
Speaker 1: be tax and efficient. We've we have high capital gain
Speaker 1: distributions or did we not make a raw IRA A
Speaker 1: contribution for and why was that right? So I'd say
Speaker 1: take some time off once you get your tax return filed,
Speaker 1: then in a couple of weeks, pull it out, look
Speaker 1: at it strategically, and then you know, I think part
Speaker 1: of it needs to be a shift away from year
Speaker 1: end planning to like I said, October is a great
Speaker 1: time to do tax planning, right, Why don't we get
Speaker 1: in front of that versus, Hey, we're gonna do this
Speaker 1: in conjunction with the holidays, in conjunction with year end.
Speaker 1: Let's see where we are in October, because at that
Speaker 1: point we're gonna have of our year in and we're
Speaker 1: gonna have a pretty good idea of what November and
Speaker 1: December might look like. Let's do some tax planning then.
Speaker 1: I think those would be sort of the two big things.
Speaker 1: Look at your old tax return strategically and move year
Speaker 1: end up to something more like October where you've got
Speaker 1: enough information where you could do some really good tax planning. Sean,
Speaker 1: this has been an awesome conversation. Lots of helpful and
Speaker 1: actionable advice for our listeners. Where can work in how
Speaker 1: the money listeners find out more about you and what're
Speaker 1: up to. Thanks so much, Um, you can find me
Speaker 1: my financial planning firm. Website is Moline Financial dot com.
Speaker 1: My blog is five tax guy dot com. Awesome, well, Sean,
Speaker 1: thanks again so much, and you know we'll put links
Speaker 1: to both of those websites in our show notes. And yeah, man,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you taking the time today. Matt and
Speaker 1: Joel It's been a tremendous honor and pleasure to be
Speaker 1: with you today. Alright, Joel, So, taxes not the most
Speaker 1: exciting thing to talk about, right, It's it's something that
Speaker 1: we have to talk about. It's something and there's a
Speaker 1: good reason for it too. You know. There's a reason
Speaker 1: that Sean has dedicated his life to helping people when
Speaker 1: it comes to their personal finances. When it comes to taxes,
Speaker 1: is because of the massive impact that it has on
Speaker 1: our money. And so even though it's not something that
Speaker 1: we necessarily want to spend time talking about, it is
Speaker 1: so important and I'm glad that we were able to
Speaker 1: sit down here with Sean and talk about taxes. What
Speaker 1: was your big takeaway from this episode? Man? All Right,
Speaker 1: So there was certainly a lot to take away from
Speaker 1: this episode, but I think my big takeaway was about
Speaker 1: when you should d I y uh. Taxes are not
Speaker 1: and that was something we covered early on in the episode.
Speaker 1: But if you have a basic situation that remains unchanged
Speaker 1: from last year, and it was basically your W two worker,
Speaker 1: you have a four oh one K and and really
Speaker 1: that's the extent of the craziness. Your financial life really
Speaker 1: isn't all that complex, you should probably be doing your
Speaker 1: own taxes. And you know he didn't mention this, but
Speaker 1: in all likelihood you can and should be doing your
Speaker 1: taxes for free, right and UM, we've talked about that before.
Speaker 1: To I R S is free file program is one
Speaker 1: place you can turn. Credit karma is another place to turn.
Speaker 1: But the more complex your situation gets, the more likely
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to hire somebody. And I feel like,
Speaker 1: especially when we were talking about your A, G I
Speaker 1: and stimulus payments, UM and all these kind of things,
Speaker 1: in particular in the tax your twenty, there could be
Speaker 1: even more reason for you to hire somebody this year
Speaker 1: than even in previous years. There's more on the line.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was my big takeaway is that, you know,
Speaker 1: if you have a simple situation, file your own taxes,
Speaker 1: that's fine. If your situation gets complex at all, you
Speaker 1: really probably want to start reaching out to attacks prepared
Speaker 1: to make sure that you're doing it right, that you're
Speaker 1: not overpaying in taxes or you know, potentially leaving money
Speaker 1: on the table. Sure, yeah, that's right, and a quicker
Speaker 1: mind or two for folks, stimulus payments are not taxed,
Speaker 1: So just because you received a stimulus payment. Don't think
Speaker 1: that that overly complicates your situation, right right? Uh one, Okay,
Speaker 1: So my big takeaway is gonna be towards the end
Speaker 1: of the episode, he talked about starting to prepare for
Speaker 1: that year's tax return in October. So before the year
Speaker 1: even ends, October hits you've had seventy of the year,
Speaker 1: realizing that it's pretty easy to forecast what you're gonna
Speaker 1: be making, you know, the next three months. But I
Speaker 1: just like how that leaves margin basically, right. It leaves
Speaker 1: time at the end of the year for you to
Speaker 1: make any tweaks, any changes, uh that might be better made.
Speaker 1: Uh you know that year versus waiting until that you know,
Speaker 1: special period of time between January and April when you
Speaker 1: can make some tweaks. You can make some changes, you
Speaker 1: can contribute to a roth ira, right, but there are
Speaker 1: gonna be other things that you cannot do. So I
Speaker 1: do like the idea of starting to kind of get
Speaker 1: wrap your head around your tax game towards the end
Speaker 1: of the year. Uh, not waiting until the next year,
Speaker 1: and not waiting until December fifte when you're like a
Speaker 1: chicken with your head cut off trying to figure things out.
Speaker 1: When you have a couple of months really to to
Speaker 1: plan things out, you have enough information, you know, at
Speaker 1: the ready, and you have enough runway to make the
Speaker 1: changes that you need to make. I agree when you
Speaker 1: said that. I was like, that's right. October, of course
Speaker 1: is the perfect time to do tax plan. That makes
Speaker 1: so much sense. I mean, I think most people don't
Speaker 1: think about taxes until they start getting forms in the mail, right,
Speaker 1: so end of January they're they're not really thinking about
Speaker 1: taxes at all until then, but in some circumstances, by
Speaker 1: then it can be too late. So yeah, that's something
Speaker 1: that he mentioned that. Yeah, like you said, I was
Speaker 1: just like, well, duh, of course that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I've never personally done that. And
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sneak in one other takeaway, which was that
Speaker 1: if you live in California, you can get to Hawaii
Speaker 1: for four hundred bucks. Oh my gosh, that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's that's really good considering I've never
Speaker 1: been to Hawaii, so hearing him talk about it, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh man, one of these days I'm gonna make it
Speaker 1: out there. How do money trip, let's do it. I
Speaker 1: don't know about how do money trip? Hown't like trip
Speaker 1: with me and my wife. I'll watch you kids. Got
Speaker 1: a big anniversary coming up next year, so that might
Speaker 1: be it. We'll see. Are your kids can hang out
Speaker 1: with us? All four of them? Oh? Yeah, I got this.
Speaker 1: Would you imagine? That? Sounds like madness? It's just like
Speaker 1: the Brady Bunch. Man, we can do it, all right. Well,
Speaker 1: let's get back to the beer we had on the
Speaker 1: show too. Man. The beer that we drank on the
Speaker 1: show today was called Peka Juice Slushy x l x L.
Speaker 1: So honestly, um, I was saying, my neighbor Mark brought
Speaker 1: this over yesterday and he was like, hey, yeah, here
Speaker 1: have a couple of beers. And I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: we'll have him on the show. And this one is
Speaker 1: by four fifty North Brewing Company. I've never heard of.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had any of their beers? No, but
Speaker 1: I've read about them. I think they're like, they're famous
Speaker 1: for their fruit slushy beers. Um. But I will say, man,
Speaker 1: it looks like a juice box can. And I do
Speaker 1: not like labels like this. My kids would assume they
Speaker 1: could drink this and saw in the pantry. Um, and
Speaker 1: I'm not down with that for your one year old
Speaker 1: sitting there just like pointing up juice. Juice. Yeah exactly,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, what were your thoughts on this beer? Man? Well,
Speaker 1: as soon as we cracked it and poured it, I
Speaker 1: will give you credit for this tasting, you know, but
Speaker 1: you're like, dude, this most just like a banana runt.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with more. Man as we're pouring it
Speaker 1: as I mean, the banana and it was overwhelming. That's
Speaker 1: so it's got lemon, pineapple, and banana in the spear.
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of us have ever had
Speaker 1: a beer with banana in it. It's never not your
Speaker 1: typical fruit, you know. Raspberry, sure, blueberry, yeah, cherry of course,
Speaker 1: Banana not so much. Yeah, I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: And so I think you never both a little hesitant
Speaker 1: when it came to this beer. But it turns out
Speaker 1: I like it. It definitely had some over the top
Speaker 1: banana flavors, but the you know what I pulled out
Speaker 1: though the lemon. The lemon was clutched, so it kind
Speaker 1: of ended with almost like this lemon, uh, like pith,
Speaker 1: like a lemon bitterness. It reminded me of like a
Speaker 1: lemon meringue pie a little bit, where like you've got
Speaker 1: the sweetness from the fruit, but it also kind of
Speaker 1: finishes and ends with a slight sour bitterness. I think
Speaker 1: that's a part of what makes it not taste just
Speaker 1: like a smoothie. So yeah, but yeah, I really liked it. Man,
Speaker 1: I'm glad, glad we could share this one on the show.
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts. I do think the lemon and
Speaker 1: pineapple saved it from being too banana, But but that
Speaker 1: was the first taste I got in my mouth, and
Speaker 1: that was the overwhelming sent too of it. It did
Speaker 1: smell like banana runs to me, and that's my least
Speaker 1: favorite hunt no way. Yeah, the banana on a slightly
Speaker 1: delayed reaction there because I was finishing my beer. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love the banana runts as a kid, like I
Speaker 1: would spend I would say this for last because I
Speaker 1: love I love them so much. So there's there's a
Speaker 1: reason we're best friends, because I would have like picked
Speaker 1: them out and given them to you, and I would
Speaker 1: have eaten the other one. I would have gladly taken them. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: at first it was off putting to me, but then
Speaker 1: I kind of got used to it, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, banana in a beer? I guess because
Speaker 1: I've never had banana in a beer before. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is this is weird, this isn't normal. And then
Speaker 1: the more I got into it, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can dig it. Um. It's still probably wouldn't be
Speaker 1: like a beer that I would grab off the shelf
Speaker 1: and flock to, you know, on the regular basis, but
Speaker 1: it definitely grew on me, and I think the lemon
Speaker 1: and pineapple really salvage this one. And a big thanks
Speaker 1: to my neighbor Mark for donating this beer to the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks Mark and Joel. That's gonna be it for this episode.
Speaker 1: Listeners can find our show notes up on our website
Speaker 1: at how to money dot com. No doubt, happy tax preparing.
Speaker 1: You got one month left and uh, clocks sticking, clock sticking.
Speaker 1: So that's it for now until next time, Best friends out,
Speaker 1: Best of friends out. M