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Speaker 1: On the Beckel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hi, welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Durante. Name Jamie Loftiz.

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Speaker 1: And what do we do here? Jamie? Sorry to go, No,

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Speaker 1: it's fine, it's a test. Well, this is our this

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Speaker 1: is our podcast about the representation of women in movies,

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Speaker 1: using the Bechtel Test as a jumping off point for discussion.

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Speaker 1: How did I do? That? Was so wonderful? Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. And the Bechtel Test, if you're not familiar,

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Speaker 1: if perhaps you're tuning in for the very first time,

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Speaker 1: is a media test. Um. And actually I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go into a little bit more detail than we normally

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Speaker 1: do because I think this is like the perfect episode

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Speaker 1: and the perfect movie to provide just a little more

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Speaker 1: context and talk a little bit more about the origins

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Speaker 1: of the Bechtel Test than we normally do. You're being

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Speaker 1: a real lead deb right now. I am the squad leader.

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Speaker 1: The squad leader. We're going to get into a fight,

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Speaker 1: but by the end we will make up and our

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Speaker 1: French one of us will be in love and the

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Speaker 1: other one will be in charge. So you'll be in

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Speaker 1: love and I'll be in charge. That's because that's how

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Speaker 1: our normal lives are right now. Okay, anyway, so Alison

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Speaker 1: Bechtel queer icon. She inadvertently created the Bechdel Test in

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Speaker 1: her book Likes to Watch Out For published in UM.

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Speaker 1: I feel like some people think that she like deliberately

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Speaker 1: set out to create this specific media tests, but it

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Speaker 1: was more than it appeared in the book, and then

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Speaker 1: that was later co opted into the tests that we

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Speaker 1: now use, and that is widely used to apply to

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Speaker 1: you know, media and movies and things like that. Alison

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Speaker 1: Bechdel credits the idea to her friend Liz Wallace and

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Speaker 1: to the writings of Virginia Wolf, specifically Wolf's essay A

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Speaker 1: Room of One's Own Um, which is a feminist text.

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Speaker 1: The Bechtel Test is sometimes referred to as the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: Wallace test um, which Alison Bechdel is said to prefer.

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Speaker 1: But we are jerks, so we only call it the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Test. I love and friends, credit friends. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: critical it's it's great um. And then in the comic

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Speaker 1: des to Watch Out for Um, it has to lesbian characters,

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Speaker 1: and the context of their conversation is that there is

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Speaker 1: so little queer women representation in movies that the only

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Speaker 1: way for them to imagine that a female character in

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Speaker 1: a movie might be a lesbian is if she is

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Speaker 1: seen talking to another woman and they are not talking

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Speaker 1: about men. So that is the origin of the Bechtel test.

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Speaker 1: And I just wanted to share that to our listener.

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Speaker 1: I'm less sure the original comic on our on our Twitter. Well,

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Speaker 1: I know it's readily available, so we can do that

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Speaker 1: as well. Indeed, this history Corner, Yeah, a new segment

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Speaker 1: on every episode. Please got no? Shall we introduce our guests.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. I'm so excited. We've got to today,

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Speaker 1: very exciting time. They are the hosts of the lez

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Speaker 1: Hangout podcast. It's Lee Holmes Foster and Ellie Bridgatta. Hi

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Speaker 1: did I say that right, Brigata? It's Bridget Bridgeta. But

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Speaker 1: I think you should change. Honestly, I love it, Brigata.

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Speaker 1: It sounds a little bit more like the things that

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Speaker 1: I love sounds like it sounds like a beverage or bread.

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Speaker 1: So sorry for fucking up your name, but welcome. It's

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Speaker 1: all good. They literally messed up my name at my

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Speaker 1: graduation and I waited for them. I was like, you're

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Speaker 1: going to get it right. So they said it like

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Speaker 1: seven times that I finally walked does an incredible flex.

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Speaker 1: So tell us, Lee, let's start with you. Um, what

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Speaker 1: is your history your relationship with the movie. Oh, by

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Speaker 1: the way, today's movie is Debs. Yes, Debs is a

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Speaker 1: cult classic two thousand technically two thousand four, but released

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Speaker 1: widely in two thousand five rom com technically, although it

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Speaker 1: feels like a d com to me in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways of getting a lot of d com vibes. Screens, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so many green screens and like goofy like kind of music.

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Speaker 1: Very d com. It's so great. What is your experience, Lee? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So my experience so because I'm going to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I first saw Debs in college, which

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Speaker 1: would make sense. That was like right after it came out,

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Speaker 1: And I would say my experience with Debs is that

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Speaker 1: for a really really long time, when we would try

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Speaker 1: to talk to like friends or people about like queer movies,

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Speaker 1: we would say for a long time. There's like one

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Speaker 1: like good queer movie that's like a real movie which

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Speaker 1: has imagined me and you. And then there's like two amazing,

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Speaker 1: like campy movies, and those are Debs and But I'm

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Speaker 1: a Cheerleader. Um, And so for a long time, Debs

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Speaker 1: was like that go to of like it's so terrible

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Speaker 1: and amazing just all at the same time, and there

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Speaker 1: just wasn't a lot else out there, so so you'd

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Speaker 1: kind of just watched those. We talked about this on

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Speaker 1: our But I'm a Cheerleader episode where our guest was like,

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Speaker 1: there are only two fun lesbian movies, and one of

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Speaker 1: them is but I'm a Cheerleader and the other one

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Speaker 1: is Debs. It has been like a request for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Yes, it's such a classic. It's such Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's such a horribly amazing movie. The first time that

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Speaker 1: I ever saw it actually was when I watched it

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Speaker 1: with Lee podcast yeah called Less Central. I had never

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Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, it was the first time that I

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Speaker 1: had seen it, And I don't know why I hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen it before. But I'm also a bit younger than Lee,

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Speaker 1: so I was I was definitely not a lesbian or

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Speaker 1: I was a lesbian, but I wasn't out when Depths

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Speaker 1: came out. Um, so I saw it for the first

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Speaker 1: time then and have since watched it probably five or

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Speaker 1: six times. Yeah, yeah, because everything else is so depressing.

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Speaker 1: Like if you want to watch something to beat and lesbian,

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Speaker 1: like that's it. Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship? Like most movies,

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it before until today and I watched

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Speaker 1: and I watched it twice in a row, and it's

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Speaker 1: like it's so at my alley in so many ways.

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Speaker 1: But it's just like the low budge vibes you get

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Speaker 1: from it, the multitude of like the character directors are

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Speaker 1: out in this movie, some wild character actor choices. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that outfits are weird. I just it's it's everything. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it looks like it costs seven dollars to make. And

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Speaker 1: I love I loved her, Donna Brewster, and it was

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Speaker 1: just she's so good and it's weird because I don't

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen I mean, I guess I'm mostly judging

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Speaker 1: her catalog from seeing on her on my mom's soaps

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Speaker 1: when I was really young, because she started as a

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Speaker 1: soap star and seeing her in The Fast and the

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Speaker 1: Furious movies, but this is the most personality I've seen

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Speaker 1: her ever display ever. It was just like, I really

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Speaker 1: like this movie. Yeah, what about you? Um I had

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Speaker 1: not seen it either. Um, I knew of it just

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Speaker 1: because it had been request It's a common request for

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Speaker 1: us to do on the podcast, and that was the

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Speaker 1: first time I learned about it. I think it's just yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember someone in like a college film class I

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Speaker 1: took presented on it and being like college myself of like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll watch that, and then I was like, no, I

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Speaker 1: gon't watch a movie, don't work it somehow flew under

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Speaker 1: my radar, which is unfortunate that this like fun queer

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Speaker 1: movie was not even in my like wheelhouse or I

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Speaker 1: just I wasn't aware of it, because I feel like

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Speaker 1: I have a pretty good handle on most movies. Even

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Speaker 1: if I haven't seen them, I've heard of them or

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Speaker 1: I know about them. Twice. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: bringing it up, because you know, I don't like to

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Speaker 1: mention that I do have a master's screen screen running

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Speaker 1: from Boston University, but uh, yeah, it just when did

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Speaker 1: you go to be you? I went there between Oh,

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Speaker 1: we were probably there at the same time. Yeah, Boston. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's where I did my PhD. So okay, trying to

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, are you are you trying to upstage me?

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I found that much more impressive degree there.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, though my blood not even a

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Speaker 1: very stressful But what did what did you study? Chemistry? Oh?

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Speaker 1: A woman? That's that's why it's like, not impressive at all,

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Speaker 1: and no one ever wants to hear about it. You

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Speaker 1: know you're I'm not impressed by your PhD in chemistry

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Speaker 1: at all. I think we also overlapped with a Casio

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Speaker 1: Cortes though, didn't we? Oh she was I think she

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Speaker 1: graduated inn I think something like that sounds right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I I missed her. So she and I overlapped.

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Speaker 1: So once again, this is a this is spicy cast sy.

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Speaker 1: I'm never getting invited back to anything ever. You have

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Speaker 1: a PhD in chemistry, you can do whatever the funk

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Speaker 1: you want. Yeah, and I didn't earned it. I didn't

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Speaker 1: mean for my reaction to be like, oh, it was

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Speaker 1: more like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. I am actually

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Speaker 1: very impressed, and you're a woman in stem so that's great.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you the most common response that I

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Speaker 1: think I've gotten when I if I tell people that

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Speaker 1: I have a PhD in chemistry, I think the most

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Speaker 1: common resp bonses what else do you do? Um? Really,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not offended by any who are these people

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Speaker 1: do that? That's fine? I want to fight these people,

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Speaker 1: Lee has spot them. Oh good, good fight. I just

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Speaker 1: tell them about my awesome lesbian podcast. That's all. I

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Speaker 1: just have two very niche things. It's cool. Oh, also

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Speaker 1: really quick. I also got some just taking the temp

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Speaker 1: from the room. I was also getting some Josie and

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Speaker 1: the Pussycat vibes from this movie visually, like if Josie

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Speaker 1: and the Pussycats had like a fourth of the budget

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Speaker 1: kind of like that, that's my statement, and like a

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Speaker 1: zillionth of the star power exactly. They're like, we have

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Speaker 1: Hall and Taylor, but we only have her for three

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Speaker 1: hours so naked account and she'll only film in one

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Speaker 1: rooms green screen it every time this movie takes place

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Speaker 1: in the same room, and I love it. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: should I do the recap of the movie debs? Yes? Please? Okay.

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Speaker 1: We start with some wild voiceover that says that there

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Speaker 1: is a secret test hidden within the s a T

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Speaker 1: that measures a student's innate ability to lie, cheat, fight,

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Speaker 1: and kill, and those who score well on this test

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Speaker 1: are recruited into a secret paramilitary academy and they call

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Speaker 1: themselves Deb's d e b s. The like first thirty

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Speaker 1: seconds of this movie, I was like, what's like? Watch

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Speaker 1: it three times to just be like I get the

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Speaker 1: feeling they're not going to explain this again, and they don't.

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Speaker 1: They do we ever find out what DEBS stands for? Yes,

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Speaker 1: we do, end game? Yeah, what is it stand for?

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Speaker 1: It stands for discipline, energy and beauty. Oh but it's

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Speaker 1: also like debutantes because endgame is like prom basically. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, she does doesn't like Holland Taylor indirectly define it,

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Speaker 1: like ten minutes before the movie is over. Yes, when

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Speaker 1: she's reprimanding Amy. A choice was made being a big

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Speaker 1: old lesbian. Yes, your one to talk, Holland Taylor one

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Speaker 1: to talk. I know there, but this was like pre

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Speaker 1: Holland Taylor didn't come out until a few years ago, right,

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Speaker 1: she was not out when this movie was made. She was.

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Speaker 1: She was leaving breadcrumbs for all of us. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's some of the background on debs um. Then

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Speaker 1: we meet several of the Debs as they're on their

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Speaker 1: way to Deb's academy. Um, almost like Santa University was

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Speaker 1: almost like Santa Universe. Yeah, for sure, for sure. We

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Speaker 1: meet Dominique. She is French. She's always smoking a cigarette,

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Speaker 1: very sex positive, She's got many different dudes in her

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Speaker 1: bed over the course of the movie. We meet Janet.

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Speaker 1: She's a little absent minded, she's a little slighty. Um.

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Speaker 1: We meet Max, she is the squad captain, and then

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Speaker 1: we meet Amy. She is the top student at Deb's academy.

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Speaker 1: She's a great spy and she is in the middle

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Speaker 1: of breaking up with her boyfriend Bobby. Bobby, what a chick.

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Speaker 1: They did not do They're like, no, no, nothing that's

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Speaker 1: likable for Bobby. Hey, Jeff Stults would have been like

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Speaker 1: hot off of his Seventh Heaven run at this point, right, true, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I I forgot that that was where I recognized him from.

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Speaker 1: There are so many people in this movie where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know that you're from somewhere. I feel like he

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Speaker 1: wasn't much more likable in Seventh Heaven to me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's pretty horrible in this movie though. It's the worst.

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Speaker 1: I mean down to the pokah shells. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: always bragging about his dad that belonged to his father, right,

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Speaker 1: what is that? Yes, he's like my dad shells. Like,

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Speaker 1: please started this on therapy, keep your shells out of this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: For he carries around a collection of his father's bracelets

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Speaker 1: for some unknown racing and it's always like urgent for

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Speaker 1: him to put the bracelet on her in midair. It's like, no,

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Speaker 1: you gotta put it on my dad's bracelet. Now I

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Speaker 1: love it. Okay. So the four of these debs meet

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Speaker 1: up with Phipps, who was played by Michael Clark Duncan

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Speaker 1: and Ms Petrie who is Holland Taylor and Queer Icon,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, Lucy Diamond is back in the States,

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Speaker 1: and Lucy Diamond might be a reference to something, um,

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Speaker 1: nothing that I've ever heard of, don't really do a

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Speaker 1: general name. So weird that those two were to be associated.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like it's completely original and

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Speaker 1: not an allusion to anything. Sick, just checking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: So she Lucy Diamond is a smuggler, she's the leader

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Speaker 1: of a crime syndicate. She's turn to Brewster, She's ridiculously hot.

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Speaker 1: She's very hot, which Amy definitely recognizes. Yeah, oh, I

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Speaker 1: just didn't expect her to be so good. She's straight

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Speaker 1: out of like many shampoo hair commercials, even though no

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Speaker 1: one's ever survived an encounter with her, right, yeah, yea.

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Speaker 1: And she is planning to meet up with an x

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Speaker 1: KGB turned assassin named Nkotchka. I like Nikotchka a lot more.

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Speaker 1: I simply cannot pronounce names. I think, yeah, Nikotchka were

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Speaker 1: joining out um, And so Phipps is like, hey, to

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Speaker 1: do surveillance on Lucy. But here's the thing, it's very

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Speaker 1: dangerous because Lucy has never fought anyone who has lived

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Speaker 1: to tell about it. Amy is especially excited because she's

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Speaker 1: writing her thesis on Lucy Diamond. Of course she is.

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Speaker 1: And are they supposed to be at the same age?

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Speaker 1: That was quite I was like, are you right? Was

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Speaker 1: she writing her thesis on some some in her age

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Speaker 1: or is she supposed to be a little bit older.

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Speaker 1: It's really unclear in the same way that it's unclear,

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Speaker 1: like it seems like they're supposed to be in college

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Speaker 1: through this, but they treat them like high schoolers the

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Speaker 1: whole time. And they're dressed like stereotypical private school high

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Speaker 1: school students. Well, I don't know, typical private Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think they would definitely be sent to the principal's office. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're dressed like a Halloween costume. Oh yeah, well we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that. But yeah, I think they're meant to

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Speaker 1: be like seniors in college basically because they say they're

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Speaker 1: in their fourth year of Deb's academy. So Lucy is

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Speaker 1: just like a a gay dropout who blazed her own

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Speaker 1: trail and thus is essay material. True. Yeah, hard to

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Speaker 1: say how old Lucy is meant to be. I got

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Speaker 1: the impression that she was maybe a few years older

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Speaker 1: than the debts. But again, she's right, UM's what we know.

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Speaker 1: She's hot. She has a friend named Scud. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: don't have any more questions. And we meet the two

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Speaker 1: of them, and we find out that Lucy is planning

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Speaker 1: to meet up with this ninotchka woman because they are

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Speaker 1: going on a blind date, and we're like, whoa, Lucy

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Speaker 1: is a queer icon. As it turns out, Scud is

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Speaker 1: really wanting Lucy to be in love because that's such

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Speaker 1: a good wing man. Scud is like, it's practically his job. Like,

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Speaker 1: we don't really see him do much else other than

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Speaker 1: be like, you gotta be in love, Lucy, move on,

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Speaker 1: you got this. I was like, damn, Scud, you're really

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Speaker 1: rooting for her. Scud is like a walking Lesbro slash

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Speaker 1: motivational poet during human form. Yeah, you have to be

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Speaker 1: open to love. You're so supportive. It's great. Peaks good.

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Speaker 1: So the debs go to the restaurant for this steak

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Speaker 1: out and Lucy shows up and she's there with her

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Speaker 1: date and it's not going very well. In a very

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Speaker 1: tall restaurant, the ceilings are like eight ft high, and

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Speaker 1: no one ever looks up. Lucy. It actually is a pool,

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Speaker 1: if anyone noticed, I just noticed this time. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's definitely an empty pool that they turned into a

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Speaker 1: restaurant because on the wall it says like something about swimming,

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Speaker 1: and if you look on the sides there are little

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Speaker 1: things that say the height of it, which is six ft,

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Speaker 1: so it's not that tall. Excellent budget they had, They're great, great, great.

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Speaker 1: So Lucy does spot the debs who are just like

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Speaker 1: hanging out in the rafters and so this lee to

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Speaker 1: a big shootout. Whoa, whoa, wait, it's not that she

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Speaker 1: spots them, it's that Bobby checks, as you're so wont

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Speaker 1: to do when you're hanging in little swings from a

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Speaker 1: restaurant's thirty foot ceiling on an espionage didn't. They're all

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Speaker 1: in like circus swings is part of the plan. And

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Speaker 1: then like every single one of Bobby's dad's bracelets is

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Speaker 1: a Chekhov's gun the second it comes out, because it's

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Speaker 1: just gonna happen. I would also like to believe that

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Speaker 1: there's an entire semester's class of Deb's Academy that is

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Speaker 1: solely devoted to balancing on those swing seats because they

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Speaker 1: like move they can like shift them back and forth,

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Speaker 1: and they returned at all, and the swings don't swing

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Speaker 1: that much. They seem pretty stationary. I'm interested in this technology. Same.

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Speaker 1: So there's this big shootout and to uh, Lucy and

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Speaker 1: Amy find themselves face to face, but instead of killing

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Speaker 1: each other, they sort of vibe that scene. Yes, it's great.

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Speaker 1: And then Lucy gets away and she goes to Scutt

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Speaker 1: and she's like, hey, I met someone. Her name is

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Speaker 1: Amy Bradshaw, and Scott is like, you can't like her.

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Speaker 1: She's a deb she's been, and she's like, not, she's

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Speaker 1: she's she's the perfect score, which again we just have

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Speaker 1: some very subtle coded language in here. And then Lucy

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Speaker 1: sneaks into Amy's room and she's like, go out with me.

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Speaker 1: If you do, I'll tell you what you want to

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Speaker 1: know for your thesis. Janet crosses their paths one of

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Speaker 1: the other debs, and so she and Scutt get dragged

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Speaker 1: along to this like nightclub that they end up going to,

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Speaker 1: and Amy and Lucy start to get to know each

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Speaker 1: other and then they almost kiss, and also Scott and

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Speaker 1: Janet or five pool table. There's a lot a lot

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Speaker 1: going on. There's a pool table. There's a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people that are like straight out of your you know,

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Speaker 1: mid two thousand's small hot topic, so many mohawks, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of like giant metal ball necklaces. There actually

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Speaker 1: is the guy with a potato stack on his end.

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Speaker 1: I've seen this movie so many times that the last

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Speaker 1: time I watched it, I paused it at a certain

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Speaker 1: point because I was like, is that a potato sack?

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Speaker 1: And it was so just letting, you know, look out

340
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Speaker 1: for that a lot of Easter eggs because I will

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Speaker 1: watch this movie again. I think it's so much fun. Yeah,

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00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: it's so. She and Lucy almost kiss, but Amy is

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Speaker 1: confused about her sexuality, so she gets up and leaves abruptly.

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Speaker 1: Now we're back at Deb's academy and MS Petrie is

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Speaker 1: all like, hey, Amy lead this investigation to find Lucy,

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Speaker 1: and she also gets promoted to squad captain because they

347
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Speaker 1: survived the Lucy encounter. Yes, so everyone's like, wow, what

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Speaker 1: a hero. And then Max is all upset because she's like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm squad captain. This means there's some

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00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: tension between Amy and Max, and as they stated whilst

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Speaker 1: on the swings, they're best friends. And also Max did

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Speaker 1: something that I'm like, Okay, this isn't what a great

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Speaker 1: friend would say, but it did make me laugh of

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Speaker 1: when she was just like, promise you'll never go to

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Speaker 1: art school. I'm like, I wish I had a friend

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Speaker 1: who had said that to me, right, Because Amy doesn't

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Speaker 1: have that much interest in being like a spy. She

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Speaker 1: wants to go to art school in Barcelona exactly, which

359
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: is just like, I feel like the default for any

360
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Speaker 1: like broody girl in the nineties two thousand movie you

361
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: just want to be an artist for a lesbian I

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00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: mean just any less either or right. It should have

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Speaker 1: been a hint read the science, Amy read the science.

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Speaker 1: So then, um, Lucy robs a bank just so that

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Speaker 1: the Debs will like go and try to stop her,

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Speaker 1: because she's trying to lure Amy there so she can

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Speaker 1: get closer to her. And then Amy's like, ah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not romantically interested in you, Lucy. But then

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Speaker 1: also but and then in that scene, Lucy also almost

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Speaker 1: kills the Debs and it's like it's a booby trap,

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Speaker 1: and like, um, excuse me, you almost killed the Debs.

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Speaker 1: She's like, what a good prying. I didn't laugh about

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Speaker 1: this later, I just like, I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: want to be in a relationship with this woman now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we'll talk about the nature of their like

376
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: the whole um. There's some strange twists. Yeah, So that

377
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: they kiss, Lucy and Amy kiss and Amy is all

378
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Speaker 1: like she changes her mind. She goes with Lucy. The

379
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Speaker 1: Debs all think that she's been kidnapped, but it's really

380
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Speaker 1: just them hanging out, spending time together and having a

381
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Speaker 1: great time, which is a great montage. Also, they do

382
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Speaker 1: appear to be in plain sight almost all the time. Right. Also,

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Speaker 1: the montage is confusing time wise, because it to me,

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Speaker 1: this montage appears to take place over the course of

385
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: like many moons. Yeah, but they do mention later that

386
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Speaker 1: she's only kidnapped for a week seven days. Yes, so

387
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: they really they just kinda made it seem a little

388
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: bit more than it was. Maybe they move really fast.

389
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Speaker 1: I guess that let's let's not talk about lesbian stereotypes

390
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: quite yet. But you know, also they're in their college

391
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: aged I feel like in college a million times I

392
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: would tell I would tell anyone I loved them. After

393
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: a week, like yeah, They're like, do you love me?

394
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: I'd be like, sure, I don't know. Could be true.

395
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Speaker 1: So then um, Miss Petriet orders a search for Amy,

396
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: and the Debs find her while she and Lucy are

397
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: naked and kissing, and so, in an effort to cover

398
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: up what would be a scandal for Deb's academy since

399
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: like Amy was consorting with the enemy, they planned to

400
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: instead they're going to name her deb of the Year

401
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: at the big end game event. And it's Max's idea.

402
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: It's Max's idea, and she's very smart, and she's going

403
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: to give a speech to accept this award, so to speak,

404
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: and her ex boyfriend Bobby is going to be there

405
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: with her to make it look like they're together. Nobody

406
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: has ever been more excited to take out a girl

407
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: who has no interest in them than Bobby is to

408
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: take her to anything. When they're dancing on the dance floor,

409
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: she's literally like standing still. He's like busting all these

410
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: moves not he doesn't look at her at all. Bobby

411
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: is such a child, it's wild. I was pissed when

412
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Speaker 1: Max called Bobby when they had a lead on where

413
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: Amy was. I was like, man, Max, that's not what

414
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: a friend does. Don't call the ex boyfriend who's who

415
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: wears Puka Shell's never call him. Never guy. Ever. So

416
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: we're almost at the end of the movie. Um, everyone

417
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: is mad at Amy for her whole like wording with

418
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: the enemy thing, and she's forced to suppress her feelings

419
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: for Lucy, and she say that she's not in love

420
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,959
Speaker 1: with her, even though we know that she is because

421
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: she's wait, sorry, super quickly, we missed a really important

422
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: part of the movie. What the montage where Lucy Diamond

423
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: decides to reform her ways? Oh God, yes, because in

424
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: order to be in love, you do need to change

425
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: everything about yourself. So Lucy's like, I'll do whatever it

426
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: takes to win Amy back, and so she starts to

427
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: return all the money that she stole from people with

428
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: the help and support of Scott. Scott is they're they're

429
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: singing karaoke together and what appears to be her bedroom,

430
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: like they're just it definitely is her bedroom that they

431
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: pan out and there's four other people there. Dan say,

432
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: so it's like every crime operation has their backup dancers. Okay, yeah, yeah, true,

433
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: especially during a reform montage trying out, she has a

434
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: little batman signal that's Lucy Diamond that turns into Amy

435
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: be mine. That's great. So now we're at endgame, which

436
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: was essentially this ball prom kind of thing, and Amy

437
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: is giving her speech and Lucy shows up to be like, hey,

438
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: I actually love you and we should be together, which

439
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: was sort of Scott's idea. Um, and then Amy is like, hey,

440
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: here's my speech. It's such an honor to be a

441
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: deb and blah blah blah, and then she's like, but

442
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: just kidding, and then she's yeah, she literally gives the

443
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: whole speech, and then she's like Comma j K. And

444
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: that is why I actually need to tell you that

445
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: I love Lucy Diamond. Also, wait, can we just come

446
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: it real quick? On the speech accepting the deb's highest

447
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: award ry, Jane, Oh was that a week? Didn't get it?

448
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: It's just they're throwing them left and right, damn. Like

449
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: it's taken many viewings of this movie to just really

450
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: pick out all of the first subtle hints and you know,

451
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: just hidden language in there. There's a lot of, first

452
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: of all, really funny jokes, and I feel like a

453
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: lot of them are fairly subtle, Like there was stuff

454
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: I was picking up on I didn't pick up on

455
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: until my second viewing, and I feel like there's still

456
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that I missed. So yeah, I'm

457
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: excited to go back and rewatch it. So Amy's like

458
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: she professes her love for Lucy, Lucy is there. There's

459
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: this big fight that unfolds, and then Lucy and Amy

460
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: are running around the cross paths again at the same

461
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: place that they did the first time they meet, and

462
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: they're like, oh my god, let's be together and all

463
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: the debt shop and they're like, wait, what does that mean?

464
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: That endgame took place in the pool restaurant. Oh, I

465
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: guess the oncation scenes they did have one building for

466
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: ten days, but that takes place and it's like a

467
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: warehouse that they're running around in. So maybe there's the

468
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: basement warehouse under the pool restaurant, which is also in

469
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: Dev's academy. Maybe Dev's academy. The exterior may have been

470
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: mostly a green screen. I'm not totally sure. I don't

471
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: I guess they sort they could have been in the

472
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: pool restaurant. So then Amy and Lucier like, yeah, let's

473
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: be together, and the DEDs are like, okay, we accept you.

474
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: And that is pretty much the end of the movie.

475
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: They right off into the sunset they got in Janet

476
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: Get Together too. Yes, Yes, happy endings all around. Indeed. Um,

477
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: then she has to be like, this is my boyfriend's scud,

478
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: which is too bad. So that's the story. We're going

479
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: to take a quick break and then we'll come right

480
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: back and we're back. Hi. Hello. There's so much to

481
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: talk about, lots to talk about. So to start us off,

482
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: Lee and Ellie, we just wanted to get your take

483
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: on just kind of the overall representation as as we

484
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: already kind of talked about. Um, this is one of

485
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: a very few, like fun queer women movies that exist

486
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: at all, um still to this day. So we just

487
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: want to kind of get your initial thoughts on like

488
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: the representation of queer women in this movie, and just

489
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: sort of your initial take on on that. There's a lot.

490
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: There's a lot so much. I mean, one thing we

491
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: will say is I wish it wasn't so accurate to

492
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: be like, oh, here's one lesbian, she's a crime lord,

493
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: and here's the other lesbian, she's an overachieving student, and

494
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 1: they're gonna like move in and fall in love in

495
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: approximately three hours. Um, well we have you hauling, which,

496
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: like we like to say, is a lesbian trope that

497
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: honestly is true. Like you know what you're like, that's

498
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: a stereotype. But then you look around at all your

499
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: friends and they're all lived together and they've been together

500
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: for like six months. So describe for us what you

501
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: hauling means. Okay, So you hauling is a lesbian term

502
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: where basically there's a joke what does a lesbian bring

503
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: on a first date? A U haul? Basically that move together,

504
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: move in together very quickly. I've never heard that term before.

505
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: That's funny. Oh really I thought that, like everyone knew

506
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: you hauling, But we just live in a lesbian world,

507
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: so yes, So it's just this, it's a stereotype that

508
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: lesbians moved very quickly, fall in love very fast, and

509
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: go through like every stage of the relationship very quickly.

510
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: So seven days isn't really that unrealistic. I know, I

511
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: wish it was less accurate, but yeah, that's pretty accurate.

512
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: I do want to talk a little bit about one

513
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: of the things that I think is problematic about Lucy Diamond. Yes,

514
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: even though I love her and she's so beautiful, she

515
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: is the predatory lesbian stereo type, yes, like, which what

516
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: I mean by that is you have in lesbian movies

517
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: usually one person who is already out and a lesbian

518
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: or bisexual however they identify it, but they're already out,

519
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: and then you usually have someone who's in the closet,

520
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: and you have this person who's already out pursuing them

521
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: very aggressively and then kind of like trying to coax them,

522
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: that kind of trying to turn them in a way,

523
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: which is very problematic. So Lucy Diamond at one point

524
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: says she's into me, but she just doesn't know it yet, right,

525
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: and then continues for the entire movie to basically hold

526
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: Amy hostage in order to get her to fall in

527
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: love with her. Yes, right. I found this to be

528
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: very similar to another problematic trip that we come up

529
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: upon in hetero romance movies, just sending predatory a manse

530
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: in general, right, like basically framing stalking as romantic, where

531
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: she does so many different things, where she shows up

532
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: in Amy's room various times and uninvited, She threatens her

533
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: with a weapon to get Amy to go out with her,

534
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: She robs a bank and then almost kills her friends

535
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: to again try to get closer to her. I still

536
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: can't get over the whole movie track excuse him, like,

537
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: who are you kidding? And Amy also is like, it's

538
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: very sweet that you did that for It's like, I

539
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: don't know if that's the right term. I feel like

540
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: they're all things where if any part of this movie

541
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: was even a little bit serious, it would immediately fall apart. Yeah,

542
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: for sure, because this is a very silly, campy movie.

543
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was one of the biggest things I

544
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: noticed as well, where Lucy she is basically stalking Amy,

545
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: but it's framed as romantic and this method of seduction

546
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: yields successful results because they end up together and not

547
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: for nothing. I found it interesting where I totally agree

548
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: that that there's are like elements of predatory romance between

549
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: Lucy and Amy. But Bobby kind of does the same

550
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: thing to Amy at the beginning of the movie, where

551
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: she can't get away from him and he's like, why

552
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: did you bring up with me? Why did you break

553
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: up with me? And he's like popping up on all

554
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: her devices, and then he slides in on his freaky swing.

555
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: He's like, he's like, why did you bring up with me?

556
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: Here where my dad brings let and like it. It

557
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: seems like a pattern in Amy's romantic life, but this

558
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: story doesn't really address that well. And when when Bobby

559
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: is doing it, it's framed as she feels as though

560
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: she's being pesterred, and which is true, it's a valid

561
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: But then when Lucy does it, it's like, oh wow,

562
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: look how much she likes Amy, and look at all

563
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: the efforts she's going through to try to get with her,

564
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: and fan keeps almost killing other people shouldn't be with them.

565
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: In fact, Lucy even says at one point to Amy,

566
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: She's like, you say, I can't see you. I see

567
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: you anyway. It's this little game we play and it's

568
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: supposed to be this like, you know, cute moment, but

569
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: it's like, no, you're right. It's like, is it a

570
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: game or do you have a tracker that somehow can

571
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: identify everyone in the world is either not Amy or Amy?

572
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: And she does have that, yes, And then when the

573
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: and then when the writing also indicates that like being

574
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: stalked is secretly what Amy really wanted anyways, and Amy

575
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: really did want Lucy coming after her because this is

576
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: what she like. It just it's it's just not a

577
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: good message for for young impressionable No, not really, even

578
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: even if that predatory lesbian returns giant cartoon sacks of

579
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: money with dollar signs on them, which just not enough. Well,

580
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: that was another I mean, I mean, that was another

581
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: thing that sort of bugged me about their relationship. And

582
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: I guess, I mean, it is such a campy movie

583
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: that it was. It's not like I feel like, no,

584
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: I wish she was a mean bank robber forever, but

585
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: that but that felt like another well worn trope of

586
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: like one person needs to change everything about themselves for

587
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: this relationship to work, like you have to where there's

588
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: literally that scene with Scud I guess can't say it enough.

589
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: We're like Lucy's like, man, I really love Amy, and

590
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: Scuds like, so, do you want to give up everything

591
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: you've worked for? And Lucy's like yep. Well. And it's

592
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: funny too because there's this huge running theme in the

593
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: movie about like finding yourself right, and they have that

594
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: whole conversation when she's kidnapped, being like, you know, you

595
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: should be doing what you love and Lucy's like, I

596
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: am doing what I love. But then she like tosses

597
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: that out the window. You know, maybe she could be

598
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: a pirate though that was so weird too, but it

599
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: was like Lucy, pirates are criminals and He's like, whoofs Oh,

600
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: everything I want to be falls under the criminal category. Yeah. So, now,

601
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: what what's she going to do after she's returned all

602
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: this money? Like can she even afford to live now?

603
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: It seems like she probably can't afford rent on her

604
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: a big way. People cannot live on an art grad

605
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: student salary. I just say, if Lucy's about to go

606
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: to grad school, they're fucks. I do not assume that

607
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: she did very well on her S A T S

608
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 1: because she definitely assaulved that dude there. Yeah, there's I mean,

609
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 1: who knows. There's a lot of parts of that relationship

610
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: that just don't work in terms of setting an example.

611
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: But there are other scenes between the two of them

612
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: that I really liked. I really liked that scene where

613
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: they were talking about, you know, Amy is going with

614
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: the path that she was put on without questioning it,

615
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: and then Lucy's challenging that, and she was like, yeah,

616
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: I do bad stuff, but it's like that was a

617
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: choice I made and I stood by it, which makes

618
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: it weirder that she dials back on it later. But

619
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: I liked that scene between them a lot, Like they

620
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: do seem to challenge each other in a lot of

621
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: ways and don't hold back, which is nice because Amy

622
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: doesn't do that with her friends as much. Right, Yeah,

623
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: you do. I feel like in so many mainstream movies,

624
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: which of course are mostly hetero, you see the romantic

625
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: relationship if there is one in the movie, you rarely

626
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: get a sense of like why the two characters like

627
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: each other, or what they connect about, or what they

628
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: even talk about. But I feel like in this movie,

629
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: you get more of a sense of why they connect,

630
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: and it is I mean, for the first chunk of it,

631
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: Lucy is using some very questionable tactics and not even

632
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: just the stalker stuff. It's like she's also kind of

633
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: like negging her and or like being condescending to her,

634
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: Like in the scene when they're in the nightclub, she's

635
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: just kind of like being mean to her in a

636
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: weird way. Well, that's that's flirting, right, That is flirting

637
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: you right y? Yeah, yeah, the timeless tactic that works

638
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: on us all. The thing that comes out in the

639
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: scene in the club that made me laugh the most

640
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: was like you can tell that maybe at some point

641
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: Angela Robinson gets the story note that like, uh, we

642
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: should make it like, don't make Lucy too bad because

643
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: in that like Amy's like, well, haven't you killed a

644
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: lot of people? And Lucy's like, no, they died of

645
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: various diseases and or froze to death, so I'm actually

646
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: a viable love interest and is like because I'm not

647
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: a murderer, I'm just a robber. Yeah. That made me

648
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, I thought that that was like very

649
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: fun camp be on purpose. Bad writing and I enjoyed it.

650
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: I hope it was on purpose, because if not, that

651
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: is nuts. Right. Well, and that's and and that's sort

652
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: of the one line where Amy's like, you're just not

653
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: what I expected, you know. Yeah, ah, yes, they're I'm

654
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: sold on this now. Yeah, you know. And you ask

655
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: someone if they murdered someone and they say no, you

656
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,439
Speaker 1: just believe them if they're hot. But only if they're hot, yeah,

657
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: only if you want to kiss them. Yeah, And yeah, Well,

658
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: and I think it's believable too, because their actual sexual

659
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: chemistry is really believable, which we don't get very often

660
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: in lesbian films because you have less of them, so

661
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: the percentage of like good chemistry is going to be lower, right, Sure,

662
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: But I actually like them together, Like when they're romantically together,

663
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: they're cute together. They're believers, super cute together. I was

664
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: rooting for them that montage. It's adorable. A lot of

665
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: sitting on cars, the milk yeah, yes, spooning on cars,

666
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: milk shakes, I'm like, yeah, sure, gifting each other handcuffs,

667
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: just just cute stuff. The thing I wanted to talk

668
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: about is in terms of like the queer representation. I

669
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: feel like if there is a character in a movie

670
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: who is like identifiably a lesbian. In mainstream movies, she's

671
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: I feel like she's often she will often be fairly

672
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: butch presenting. Unsurprisingly, a lot of these movies are written

673
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: by straight people who have like a very specific idea

674
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: of what lesbians look like and how they present. Um,

675
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: So it's like pulling from those stereotypes and then helping

676
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: to reinforce them. In this movie, the two queer characters

677
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: who we see are very fem and I feel like

678
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: you rarely see that, and not that this is an

679
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 1: especially mainstream movie, but like I said, in in mainstream movies,

680
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: you're seeing these very stereotypical ideas of how lesbians present,

681
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: and it's always like plaid flannel, wearing like short hair,

682
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: like you know, nice pair overalls. Yeah, yes, well, and

683
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: this this is also one of the only movies that

684
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,959
Speaker 1: you have both of them being femi. I do feel

685
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: like a lot of the times you have one super

686
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: butch lesbian and then one bisexual feminine woman, like that's

687
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: like a very common pairing, but to have both of

688
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: them be fem presenting is not as usual. That's what

689
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: I was because I think they are trying to be like, well, look,

690
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: there are different lesbians, but only if one looks like

691
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: a man and one looks like a woman, and like

692
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: they there they have this like heteronormative look to them

693
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: even though they're lesbians. Right, Yeah, so I thought that

694
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: was the very least interesting that you see that on

695
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: screen when it's normally not that way. Well, while we're

696
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: on the topic of how characters are presented in in

697
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: this movie, just like a quick a quick moment for

698
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: wardrobe choices. So it's a camp movie. I get that. However,

699
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: I mean I think that this this movie. It's confusing

700
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: because this movie is so over the top campy at times,

701
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know if you if you

702
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: were making a point or if this is just what

703
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: was in the budget. I had the second It's hard

704
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: to know. Sometimes I wasn't sure if the costumes were

705
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: commentary or if they were just not good enough enough

706
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: money for more fabric yet the budget being whatever they

707
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: found in Angela Robinson's pockets that day. Yeah, right, because

708
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: they are wearing private schoolgirl plaid skirts like that are

709
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: way shorter than even the other students at Deb's academy,

710
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: who said earlier than it looks like Halloween costumes. That

711
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: seems like the perfect description, which one is not appropriate

712
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: for the spy stuff that they're doing. Like no, because

713
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: some of them are wearing heels swings too. If anyone

714
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: ever looks up exactly if anyone looks up in that

715
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: huge restaurant, they're going to be like, you know, I

716
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, we do know, we know

717
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: what you're getting at here. I don't they're the wardrobes,

718
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: and this falls into like I don't know. I mean,

719
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of this movie seems to be

720
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: parodying movies like Charlie's Angels, but it seemed to just

721
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: sort of be making some of the same choices without

722
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: much commentary at times, Like if there was ever a

723
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: point in the movie where it was pointed out that, like, hey,

724
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: this outfit doesn't make sense for what we're doing, then

725
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: I would sort of be more willing to be like, oh,

726
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: it's satire. But they they're just kind of always dressed

727
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: in ways that they could be so easily killed and

728
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: not practical. And also where you just have to wonder,

729
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean, for how many guns they carry in this film,

730
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: where are they keeping them. Where do you hide guns

731
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: in that skirt? That's what I wanted, and they're huge,

732
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: huge guns. Yeah, I had a lot of these very

733
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 1: same questions. Also, when you consider the what I imagine

734
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: as the intended audience of this movie, which is queer women,

735
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 1: then becomes I guess catering to like the queer female

736
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: gaze rather than the male gaze, because you know, it's

737
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: these traditionally by Western beauty standards, traditionally beautiful women who

738
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 1: all have the same body type. They're wearing these tiny skirts,

739
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: some of them are wearing shirts that reveal their middrift like,

740
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: some of them are in heels. So it's catering to

741
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: I would think, a different gaze than we're used to

742
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: seeing when it's you know, a mainstream but the alps

743
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: are the same. But they are the same, and it

744
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: is still showing like this very specific and rigid standard

745
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: of beauty because again, they all have the same body type. Yeah,

746
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: there's no there's no like diversity in terms of body

747
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: type in this movie really at all. I mean, Max

748
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: is a little shorter than the rest of them. My

749
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: I was talking to my boyfriend about this movie today.

750
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 1: I guess he saw it on the Sundance Channel when

751
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: his mom wasn't home and he was twelve, and he

752
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: was like, it honestly changed my life. It's one of

753
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: Isaac's favorite movies. No way, I didn't realize girls could

754
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: kiss other. He's like, my mom wasn't home and I

755
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: just like I taped it. It was like a um,

756
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: we have to take another quick break, but we will

757
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: come right back. Speaking of the where do they keep

758
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: their guns question, there are women with actual weapons in

759
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: this movie, and it makes sense for the genre. But

760
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: we've covered so many movies recently where if a woman

761
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: has to fight someone because they're a woman, they're fighting

762
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: with kitchen appliances or cookwear or knitting needles or fighting

763
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 1: fighting words. So in this movie, at least, the women

764
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: have guns. Not that I'm pro by any stretch, but

765
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: in an action movie, it stands it's appropriate. Yes, I mean,

766
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: there are a lot of ways in which I have

767
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: to say the women, you know, they get guns, they

768
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: have agency, they're smoking, they're you know, like sneaking boys

769
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,479
Speaker 1: into their rooms. Like there's a lot of things where

770
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: they don't they don't really kind of treat them like

771
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: they're not able to do the things that they're supposed

772
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: to be doing. It's just in a very very campy way. Yeah. Well,

773
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: and even in their hand to hand combat, I don't

774
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: think a DEB has ever been knocked out, but like

775
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: all the men are just incapacitated. That is one of

776
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: the cool Yeah, I totally agree is their abilities are

777
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: never called into question, which although I have one important

778
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: question about Deb's abilities, which is when you have endgame

779
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: right and Lucy crashes endgame and Amy runs away with

780
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 1: her and everyone sees Lucy Diamond and that dude sounds

781
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: the alarm and everyone freaks out and starts running. Isn't

782
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: every single person at endgames supposed to be a highly

783
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:12,919
Speaker 1: trained lose their minds? They're like, why are those four

784
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 1: dead's the only debs who seem to have any idea

785
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: of what they're doing? I just think that when I

786
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: was during my first viewing, and then for some reason

787
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: during the second viewing, I was like, I guess I

788
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: don't care, but like at the DEB school and like,

789
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: why are they the only four that ever get to

790
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: do anything? Are the other debs just not ready or

791
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: are they doing stuff we just don't know? They're freshmen?

792
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: What are their classes about I think they're the top squad,

793
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: like the top squad. Maybe they get gun privileges or something.

794
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. Seniors. And then here's something I wasn't

795
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: totally clear on. Is Deb's academy like an all women's

796
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: school or there? Do men go there as well? It

797
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: doesn't look like it. But also I don't know, because

798
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: but then what is Bobby's deal because he's always wearing

799
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: something that says homeland curity. Yeah, I don't think he

800
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: goes to Deb's account. How did they meet? Spy mixers? Oh?

801
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 1: He was like, oh yeah, I'm dating a Deb part

802
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: of Homeless Security. You meet on a steak out at

803
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: the pool. Alright, nice meet, cute, very cute. But they

804
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: do make Bobby look like an idiot, like in Always

805
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: He Can, they can never find Lucy Diamond. At the end,

806
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: he gets beat the crap out of by Lucy Diamond

807
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: with literally one kicks out. So the men in this

808
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: movie are not great, except for Scud. He also gets

809
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: knocked out though by Janet, but he loves her because

810
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: he's in love. He's into it. Yeah, feminist icon Scud

811
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: because love is Hardie war is easy. Love is hard.

812
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: Another thing that we don't get to talk about that much.

813
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: And this movie I think goes kind of halfway as

814
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: you don't get to see women eat in movies a lot,

815
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 1: which is also crazy, but we uh, there is that

816
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: scene at the very beginning when they're with Michael Clark

817
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: Duncan where all four of them at least order breakfast,

818
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: and you hear that at least Max appears to eat

819
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: food and the rest maybe not as much. But Dominique

820
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: literally just gets a coffee coffee, but she's all she

821
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: She just exists on coffee and cigarettes and that's it,

822
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: like all good French people do. Coffee, cigs and sex

823
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: are new podcast. But I was I was like, we

824
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: didn't get to actually see women eat, but they did order.

825
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: I feel like that's not quite enough. It's a step in,

826
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: you know, getting the order of that progress. I wanted

827
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: to go back quickly to sort of the conversation about

828
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: basically just the fighting that we see, which is often

829
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: the women fighting men. And we've talked about this on

830
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: different episode odes where it's like, Okay, well, in a

831
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: in an ideal world where we have gender equality, shouldn't

832
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: women like shouldn't men be able to like fight women

833
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: in these action scenes and like maybe even knock them

834
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: out and stuff like that. It's been a complicated subject

835
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: that we don't really know how to broach, especially because

836
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 1: in movies so far in where there's action sequences where

837
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 1: there are women fighting, it's usually they're fighting other women,

838
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: so or they're only given a rolling pin to defend themselves.

839
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: In this movie, like we said, we see like women

840
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: fighting and then usually kicking the ship out of the

841
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: men that they're fighting, which you know, I enjoyed. I

842
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: feel like that's a step in the right direction. And

843
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: I think that the reason that it doesn't really like,

844
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: I feel like that conversation, as important as it is,

845
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: doesn't become super relevant to this movie because it's so

846
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: campy and so it's not like, you know, we know

847
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,439
Speaker 1: that the Debs are better fighters than all the guys

848
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: they are going up against into going into it, so

849
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: it's never like a battle to the death with like

850
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: with a man finding and what like you know the

851
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: dev is gonna win and that the man isn't gonna die.

852
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: So the Steaks don't feel quite as like you're like, Okay,

853
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: Bobby's going to get his ass kicked and we're gonna

854
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: love it well. And there is also some way in

855
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: which it a little bit helps the cheesy high school

856
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: Catholic school girl outfits. Is that you know, when you

857
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: look at Bobby and like the CIA guys and all

858
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: those other spies are out there with like their suits

859
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: and their outfits and their things and their boat proof vests,

860
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: and they're you know, like big commando boots and everything,

861
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: and the Debs are just like whatever, all I need

862
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: is a tiny little skirt, maybe a flimsy button down,

863
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: some heels, and like a giant gun and I'm still

864
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: gonna kick your ass, right it like it kind of

865
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: has that same thing as like Buffy Allay did, where

866
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: it's like she's just gonna out there and her jeans

867
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 1: and her big blue dustard coat and and she'll always

868
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: win exactly. Yeah, I don't know, it was weird. It

869
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: was weird, I mean, seeing I agree that that the

870
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 1: way that the like, I think because the ability of

871
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: the Debs is never in question, nor is the ability

872
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: of Lucy that this movie, I mean, maybe that's what

873
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: makes it so easy and it's so comical how the

874
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: men are defeated that right, Like, it's because No, one

875
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: doesn't like watching Bobby get punched in the faith. It's

876
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: different than seeing like Wonder Woman versus Captain America and

877
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 1: one of them is going to kill the other, you know,

878
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: like it's Jamie. Different comic universes, you know, I don't

879
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: care a funking I never will that the day Lucy

880
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 1: Diamond shows up in like the m c U. That's

881
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: just does that mean? Wait? Does that mean that if

882
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: they're in different universes they can't meet Captain America and

883
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman? Ever, they can never made? Don't imagine? Well,

884
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. Maybe Marvel and DC will you know,

885
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: ten years down the line have to cross over. Hard

886
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 1: to say. I hope that maybe there will be a

887
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: Justice League versus Avengers movie. In fact, I'm pitching that

888
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: right here and right now. They should just hear that, Hollywood.

889
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: They should just stop making all there's too many. I

890
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: think there should be more Spider Man into the Spider

891
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: Verse movies for sure, and I think there should be

892
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: at least twenty of those. But yeah, they can take

893
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: a break with I have a feeling there there will

894
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: be if you just give them time. I'll be patient. Um. Well,

895
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: that's One of the things with the movie Debs is

896
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: that our four main deb characters are all women. The

897
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: main villain is a woman. The head of Deb's academy,

898
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: which is someone who all the Debs look up to,

899
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: is a woman. All of the male characters are secondary

900
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: or tertiary, Like you don't this is a movie populated

901
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: almost entirely by women, and the men who aren't in

902
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: this movie are hardly in this movie. Yeah, they, I mean,

903
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: at the beginning they try to do like Michael Clark

904
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: Duncan is very much like doing an angel's wake up

905
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and then it's immediately revealed that holl

906
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: And Taylor is his boss. And if we're going to

907
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: talk about problematic things though, can we just real quick

908
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: touch on Mr Phipps, who I mean, while we talk

909
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: about Lucy breaking into a oh my gosh without permission

910
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: all the time, can we talk about how he can

911
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: apparently just like operate preparation like with no warning and

912
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: then has the audacity to give an inspiring monologue when

913
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: he gets there. It's like, are you kidding me? And

914
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: is it inspiring? After you just told someone that your

915
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: basic test for aptitude is how good of a liar,

916
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: you are right, I don't. It sounds like Deb's should

917
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: be the bad people based on the way they describe

918
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: the test right, how they can lie, chat, fight and kill.

919
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: But then they're like, and you're the best at it,

920
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: so you're a goody two shoes. They're like, what what

921
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: It's confusing? Who knows? But yeah, I mean there's a

922
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: few scenes where there's a room full of people. Miss

923
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: Petrie will be there, the debs will be there. There

924
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: will be like maybe one or two men in the scene,

925
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: and the men are just treated the way that women

926
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: often are in action movies, which is that they are

927
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: basically scenery who are extras who don't say anything. Um.

928
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: There's the scene where Miss Petrie is promoting Amy too

929
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 1: Squad Captain, and she's accompanied by two men and another woman,

930
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,800
Speaker 1: and the two men don't have any lines in that scene.

931
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: It's only women talking. There's another scene it's like the

932
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: aftermath of Amy being discovered, um, having a romantic relationship

933
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: with Lucy, and all the debs are there, Miss Petrie's there,

934
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: Bobby and Phips are there, but I think Bobby has

935
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: one line in that scene, and otherwise men do not

936
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 1: talk in that scene. It's just like and it's only

937
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: after Max tells him exactly what he's doing, right, you're

938
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: going to She's like okay, yeah, so yeah, Bobby's basically

939
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,439
Speaker 1: in that scene to be offended that anyone might find

940
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: out that his ex girlfriend is into a girl, right,

941
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: which he which he later dials back on with a

942
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: gross comment on the swing, which I don't think it's

943
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: any mistake that that statement and the pooka bracelet are

944
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: in the same scene. You're like, yeah, he's like, oh

945
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: that lesbian thing, it's actually pretty hot because it's night.

946
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: He's like, I know you still love me and your

947
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: whole lessie thing. That's kind of hot, And yeah, I

948
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: think that that and Janet has one line at some

949
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: point when when she's trying to like shame Amy for

950
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: the whole thing, and she's like, you're just a slut again.

951
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: I think those are two of the worst lines for

952
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: me in terms of, you know, problematic things in the movie.

953
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: For sure, there's a few other things that are pretty homophobic,

954
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: I would say in the movie, but I think because

955
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: it's so campy, you I think you do realize, like

956
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: those characters are clearly they're making it portrayed that they're wrong.

957
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: Even Miss Petrie tells Amy like, you were out having

958
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: your college lesbian experiment, right, Like this is just a

959
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: phase that you're having, and you you embarrass the debts

960
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: by being an experimental lesbian, which is obviously problematic. Right.

961
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: Were there any characters that made those comments that didn't

962
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: receive come up in later because I was trying to

963
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: keep track of because once Bobby made that comment in

964
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: this scene. In both of those scenes, it's I don't know.

965
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: My head just went to like, Okay, he has to

966
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 1: get his as kicked or this movie isn't doing what

967
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,959
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be doing. Well. I think Janet gets away.

968
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: It's got free and she's probably the most homophobic of

969
00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: everyone because she is shaming Amy so hard. Are liking

970
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: Lucy Diamond when they almost kiss she's so offended. Yea,

971
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: she has that whole like she almost kissed you and

972
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: you almost her. That's the thing that I'm interested in,

973
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: and when everyone thinks about like the story, I feel

974
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: like protects itself in a lot of ways, in a

975
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: way where it's able to say kind of problematic things.

976
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: But because they set it up as like Amy's a

977
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: hero and Lucy's a villain and conflating those the two

978
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: issues is sometimes they're saying something about like it's kind

979
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: of coded language of like sometimes they're talking about like, well,

980
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: the hero doesn't like hook up with the villain, but

981
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: they're also not talking about that. I don't know. It

982
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: seems like the Janet character, especially kind of gets away

983
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: with stuff like that by couching it with well, she

984
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: kills people, so you can't be with her. Also, the

985
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: thing I'm not fully saying except for the times that

986
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: she does fully saying, and because that's the thing, Janet

987
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: is doing all of the same stuff at the very

988
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: same time, like she's also in contact with Scott and

989
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: having this whole flirtation because he's a boy. M But

990
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: I would I would say, at least my read on

991
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: it is that in most cases, in many movies, if

992
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: a homophobic thing is stated, that is how the movie

993
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: feels about it, rather than how a character who is

994
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: framed as being wrong by the movie feels about it.

995
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: So I feel like, with the exception of Janet and

996
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: her sort of weird take on everything and then getting

997
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: off Scott free about it, I feel like generally the

998
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: homophobic things that are said are said by characters who

999
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: we as the audience understand that feels more satirical and

1000
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot and or yeah, I mean even and and

1001
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: even with Holland Taylor's I kind of wish Holland Taylor's

1002
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: character was a little more double down to like her

1003
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: being clearly very wrong. But we always know that she

1004
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: I mean we we it's already set up that she's

1005
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: a problematic person in general when she doesn't give a

1006
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: funk about any of her mentees until they do something

1007
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: that makes her look good. So she's already set up

1008
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: as like a very petty person, and so when she

1009
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: goes on to make comments like that, it's like, well,

1010
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: we already don't like her. Yeah, yeah, I feel like

1011
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: ms Petrie is not the the redeemable character in this.

1012
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: I feel like it's the arc is supposed to teach

1013
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: you about finding yourself and being true to who you love,

1014
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: and it does that not using her. It's kind of

1015
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, you're watching that with Lucy and Amy Max

1016
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: to a certain extent as a character who I think

1017
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: is shown having that growth of realizing like, oh, well,

1018
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,479
Speaker 1: a true friend will support you no matter what. Right,

1019
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: I agree Max. I mean, well, we haven't talked about

1020
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: that friendship a lot yet. But Max and Amy's friendship

1021
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: is also very interesting, and also because their power dynamic

1022
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: in that friendship shifts a couple different times in the

1023
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: space of the movie, where at the beginning it's clear

1024
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 1: that Max is in charge of the friendship. She's like, Hey,

1025
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: if you get to art school, I'll kill you, and

1026
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: Amy's like okay, and so it's like, okay, Max is

1027
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: in charge, and then you see her have like that crisis,

1028
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 1: and it's the thing is like when Amy's put in

1029
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: charge of the debbs for not being killed by Lucy.

1030
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly where the movie how the movie

1031
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: wants you to feel, but I was like, oh, if

1032
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: I was Max, I would also be upset because Amy

1033
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: is always talking about how she doesn't want to be

1034
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: a debt. Max is busting her ass and then has

1035
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: it taken from her because Holland Taylor's character isn't paying

1036
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: close enough attention to what the truth is and and

1037
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: so I was like on Max's side for a good

1038
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 1: portion and then she is very professional for the most

1039
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: part and like compartmentalizes and like his like Okay, we're

1040
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: on the same team, so I'll do it, and then

1041
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: Amy immediately fox up and almost gets all of her

1042
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: friends killed. So I'm double on Max's side. But then

1043
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: at the end the Dynamics whitches again when Max is

1044
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: like Okay, deny everything and like play by the rules,

1045
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 1: and then I didn't like her again. I don't know

1046
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: that character is all over the place. But then she

1047
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: and then at the end she's like yeah, She's like

1048
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: it's almost like careful character development was not the most

1049
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: important thing. She's just flip flopping all over the place.

1050
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: I was on I was on Max's side for a

1051
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: lot of the movie, and then she she really lost

1052
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: me in that scene where it's explicitly Max who is like,

1053
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: this is my idea. Deny, deny, deny, get back with

1054
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: your homeland security pooka shell got I like, yeah, this

1055
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: thing and she suggests body, it's all downhill for you

1056
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: from their Max and literally puts words into her mouth.

1057
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: I wrote for you say everything that I say, even

1058
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 1: when the other girls are like what if she's in love?

1059
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: What if she makes her happy? I hate that. Amy

1060
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: and Max had a long discussion after the movie, so

1061
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: for really sorted their next pops up from the backseat

1062
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: in the car and they talk out their feelings. Oh good, Well,

1063
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: what I couldn't help. But notice about that relationship dynamic

1064
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: is that the two non white debs in the group

1065
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: are When it comes to Dominique, she has very little

1066
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: screen time and or bearing on the story. She's basically

1067
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: just there is a visual joke who's always smoking a

1068
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: cigarette or and having sex, which is pointed right, And

1069
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: someone even calls I think it's Amy who calls her

1070
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: like a sex addict, and it's like, no, maybe she

1071
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: just that whole line because she calls people crazy and

1072
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: sex addicts and like that whole line can go. Um.

1073
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: So it's either Dominique not having any bearing on this story,

1074
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: or it's Max, whose actions are often presented as an

1075
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: obstacle for Amy, so she ends up being sort of

1076
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: an antagonistic force for Amy a lot of the time.

1077
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, you know, Amy is a blonde, white lady,

1078
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 1: and the characters who are people of color are either

1079
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: not doing much in the story or they are in

1080
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,959
Speaker 1: some way in antagonistic force. Yeah, I mean they're They're

1081
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: very much there to help Amy's story develop, and not

1082
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,919
Speaker 1: much else. There's they're not very consistent. There's no real

1083
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: growth or any like, you know, there's not as much

1084
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: given to them as characters. Yeah, they're they're kind of

1085
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: props and and we're superwhere we want to know from

1086
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: our listeners, like how you read that scene. I've had

1087
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: that that's that was the one reason why Max pushing

1088
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: back and being so frustrated when Amy just gets promoted

1089
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. That's kind of like one of the

1090
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,919
Speaker 1: reasons why that story point worked for me, because it

1091
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: is just like this blonde, white girl who accidentally does

1092
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: the right thing is is immediately put in charge, and

1093
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: then one of the only people of color in the

1094
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: entire movie who we know really cares about what she's

1095
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: doing has gone unrecognized. Her work's got unrecognized forever, and

1096
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: she's just displaced immediately, and she's like she calls her

1097
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: friend out on it, and not for that explicit reason,

1098
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: but I don't know that. That was part of the

1099
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:33,800
Speaker 1: reason why I was like, oh yeah, Max, yeah, fuck that,

1100
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: like that's that's horrible. But then but then they kind

1101
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: of sell that character out through poor writing. Oh sid

1102
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: oh well, uh movies are bad. Um well, there's another

1103
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: very quick problematic line that gets said by Scud whenever

1104
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: they are doing this bank heist to Lord. I know

1105
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: that line he says, he says the R word, and

1106
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: you know he does. I used that. It's good and

1107
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: it's funny because the way that he says it and

1108
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: the sentiment behind that line and his delivery of it

1109
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: is perfect, and that line just needs to go. Is

1110
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: the thing. It should have been a different word word right,

1111
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: like if it had been any other word. I mean,

1112
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: it's definitely one of those things where it's like it

1113
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: is a byproduct of a movie that was made in thousands,

1114
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: and like you'd never see that line of dialogue these

1115
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I also think that's true of the guns.

1116
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: I feel like you would never see the movie done

1117
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: this way with the guns the way they are or

1118
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: the outfits. I bet, like, I don't think the outfits

1119
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: would be quite that way. Yeah, I think that I

1120
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: didn't realize that the R word was used in this movie.

1121
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: I would not to cut a break in any way.

1122
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: But I do sort of agree that that is a

1123
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: byproduct of the time it was made in Yeah, it is,

1124
01:07:58,120 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: but that's what I'm surprised that it didn't jump out

1125
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: of you because it is. It's so noticeable. I feel

1126
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: like when you watch the movie. To me, it immediately

1127
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: was like this beacon where you're like, oh, you can't

1128
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: say that, like, you know, because if you were watching

1129
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: it today, you'd be like, who approved this line? You know?

1130
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 1: It was too busy whacking off to Scud to listen

1131
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 1: to what he is saying. That might be the single

1132
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: worst sentence you've ever said, Jami the Scud, I think

1133
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: that's a fun phrase. Oh goodness, Um, I did wanna

1134
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: just quickly point out Amy's thesis. She says, my central

1135
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: hypothesis is that as a woman operating in a male

1136
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: dominated field, you felt the need to overcompensation. She's talking

1137
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: to Lucy. You felt the need to overcompensate by being

1138
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: exponentially more ruthless and diabolical. Then you're established male counterparts,

1139
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 1: and I think that these psychological forces combined to create

1140
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: a kind of emotional void in which you're incapable of

1141
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: loving or being loved. Honestly, Amy's thesis sounds like a

1142
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: feminist text that I really do want to read. But well,

1143
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought I didn't really love that

1144
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: thesis of like, I feel like that that that thesis

1145
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: to me, almost came off a little blamy of like, well,

1146
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 1: if women didn't resent their male coworkers so much, they

1147
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't be killing so many people. And I was like,

1148
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 1: hold on, I don't know that that felt a little

1149
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: product of its timey and that's phrasing. Yeah, I didn't

1150
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: give it. Something else that I also really love about it, though,

1151
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: is like from a queer perspective, you know, I think

1152
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: there's that whole idea of it's like, it's not that

1153
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:39,839
Speaker 1: you can't love, you just don't love the way everyone

1154
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 1: expects you to, you know. I kind of like that

1155
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: part of it. Yeah, I like that whole scene because

1156
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: I don't know every scene where Lucy and Amy are

1157
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: pushing back on everything the other person says is good

1158
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: to me, it is there's a way in which it's well,

1159
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 1: it's thought that it's bad. It's just there's a way

1160
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: in which I'm gonna completely undo everything we just finished

1161
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: saying about how like the depths are just so competent

1162
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: and they can do everything that men can do in

1163
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: heels and skirits, and they don't need anything. Everyone in

1164
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 1: this movie is the worst spy every and that scene

1165
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: is one great example where Amy's like, I have you

1166
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:19,559
Speaker 1: at gunpoint, but like, oh hold on, let me just

1167
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: tuck my gun under my arm to shake your hand

1168
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 1: and introduce myself and tell you about my thesis. And

1169
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 1: the only place where people are even worse spies than

1170
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 1: that is when the entire search and rescue operation descends

1171
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: upon Lucy Diamond's lair, finds her in a sheet and

1172
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 1: doesn't arrest her. Still, they just leave. They just walk

1173
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: away and leave her there. Even Max, who's supposed to

1174
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: be like the secret genius of the Depths, is like

1175
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: unbelievable and just like beats, it just leaves and they leave,

1176
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: and they don't even drive any home. They leave her

1177
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: a walk that they're not very good spies. I'm just

1178
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 1: gonna throw that out there. The last thing I had

1179
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: to say about des was I I went back and

1180
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: I watched the short film it was based on. Yes

1181
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: it is, I mean it is. So it won a

1182
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: ton of awards. Uh the year it came out. It

1183
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: came out in two thousand three, so it seems like

1184
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 1: this short film did really well and it was immediately

1185
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 1: put into production to become a movie with the same budget,

1186
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 1: with with the same budget, except most of the budget

1187
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:42,440
Speaker 1: went to paying Holland Taylor. But the short film exactly

1188
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: high end puka shells. If you're listening and you haven't

1189
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: seen the short film, highly recommended. It is even it

1190
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:54,720
Speaker 1: moves even faster. It's like raunchier. And if I'm not mistaken,

1191
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: I think that the short film does have an all

1192
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: queer cast, while the theatrical movie does not, or at

1193
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: least a majority queer cast, which I don't know. I mean,

1194
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 1: I think that. Yeah, I'm not the most qualified person

1195
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 1: to make this comment, but it does seem like very

1196
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: often queer films when they're adapted for a larger audience,

1197
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 1: are dare I say, sanitized a little bit, and straight

1198
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: actors are cast in queer roles. I'm fairly certain, I

1199
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 1: think if my research didn't fail me, Amy and Lucy

1200
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: are played by straight actresses, and in the original short

1201
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: film that was not the case. Wait, is Claire Kramer queer?

1202
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: Am I like just learning this now? In the Amy

1203
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: and in the in the in the short film, the

1204
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 1: original short film, Oh no, you're right. I think it's

1205
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 1: the four debts that are that are queer. There's a majority.

1206
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: Why would you taught us like that. I'm sorry, I'm

1207
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: so sorry. My whole world is opening up there no

1208
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 1: also Kramer of lerificous fame from both I got really

1209
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 1: excited that she was I'm so sorry now she she

1210
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: appears to be the only straight women in the movie.

1211
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 1: Or fine, I'm just going to cry myself to sleep tonight.

1212
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: It's no problem. I've fully ruined everyone's life. The one

1213
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: the one carry over from the Short Films cast is

1214
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: Jill Ritchie who plays Janet, who fun fact, is Kid

1215
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 1: rocks sister. So just a wild amazing thing. There is anything.

1216
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 1: Debs is one degree of separation from Kid Rock, who

1217
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:40,679
Speaker 1: knew something we all needed to know. Yes, Lee and Ellie,

1218
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:44,719
Speaker 1: do you have any other final thoughts about the film Debs?

1219
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 1: I do have one final thought, which is just I

1220
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: think while we it's so fun to wrag on Debs,

1221
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: and I love writing on Debs because I love it

1222
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: so much, um, I do think it's important to also

1223
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: mention that while we make fun of their their low

1224
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:02,040
Speaker 1: budget and the effects and everything, that it is interesting

1225
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:05,799
Speaker 1: to see the transition from Deb's to what Angela Robinson

1226
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 1: can do with a budget, which is Professor Marston and

1227
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 1: it's such a far cry between those two movies that

1228
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 1: I just think it's at least worth pointing out. You

1229
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: know that Angela Robinson is still a beautiful human being

1230
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 1: forgiving us Stebs and Professor Mark Pressor Marston. And it

1231
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 1: goes to show when you have a queer woman writing

1232
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 1: and directing a movie about a queer love story, it's handled.

1233
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: This is not to say this movie is not without

1234
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: its problems, but it is handled much better than when

1235
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 1: these stories are attempted by non queer people. And usually

1236
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: those stories aren't even attempted by non queer people. But

1237
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 1: it helps when the person who is creating this story

1238
01:14:55,040 --> 01:15:00,919
Speaker 1: and this content is someone who has experience and knowledge

1239
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:06,679
Speaker 1: about these topics. And it's hardening to see that someone

1240
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:11,800
Speaker 1: making their perfect art about the queer spies can go

1241
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: on to have an incredible I mean, she's had an

1242
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 1: incredible career. Professor Marston is amazing. She didn't she write

1243
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,120
Speaker 1: and direct quite a few uh l word and True

1244
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: Blood and like she's like making Banks, she's chilling. Is

1245
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: she a woman of color? Yes? Yes, that it surprised

1246
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: me then the way that the women of color are

1247
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: treated in Debs then, but I would guess maybe it

1248
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: was producers could be. Yeah, I also feel like I

1249
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: think it stands out more with Max. I don't know

1250
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 1: that Max is that much less consistent of a character

1251
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: than everyone else in this movie. I mean, I think

1252
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,599
Speaker 1: it's just everybody who is not Amy and Lucy kind

1253
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:56,759
Speaker 1: of gets short shrift in this for true Um and Lucy.

1254
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 1: Jordana Brewster is part Brazilian. I don't know exactly how

1255
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: she identifies in terms of her ethnic identity, but she

1256
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: perhaps identifies as at least mixed. Not totally clear on that,

1257
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 1: but you know there's a text her, whose text her?

1258
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: And let us know what you find out. So does

1259
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:26,599
Speaker 1: this movie past the BACKDL test? Yeah, big fat yes

1260
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 1: on that. You know. An easy way to pass the

1261
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 1: backdel test is have two women and instead of having

1262
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 1: them talk about a guy, I have them talked about

1263
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 1: how much they want to owe each other sure fire

1264
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: away Um. And in one of the very few scenes

1265
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 1: that I found where they do talk about men, they

1266
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 1: are talking about Bobby and Amy's like, I broke up

1267
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,120
Speaker 1: with Bobby and someone says why and She's like he

1268
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 1: was just so boring, and then someone else says, yeah,

1269
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 1: he's an ass so when men are being talked about,

1270
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 1: it's usually in an insulting way, which is great. Um,

1271
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: I think. Also a super producer, Sophie pointed out that

1272
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 1: this movie would not pass the reverse spectal test and

1273
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 1: that there are not two men I don't think even

1274
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 1: talking to each other in the whole movie, but there

1275
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 1: might if there is. I do think that's that doesn't

1276
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 1: sound Yeah, it doesn't. I don't think. There's that scene

1277
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: where Scuts playing bingo with some guys but nobody responds

1278
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: to him. Yeah, and they certainly don't have names. Yeah,

1279
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: we don't know who any of those guys are. The

1280
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: name of my new band is Scuds playing Bengo. Um.

1281
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 1: And this is a rare case of a movie passing

1282
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: the Vito Rusto test, and a few listeners are not

1283
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: familiar with what that is. Um. The Vito Russo test

1284
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,639
Speaker 1: requires that a film must contain at least one character

1285
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: who is identifiably lgbt Q, plus that character must not

1286
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: solely or predominantly be defined by their sexual orientation or

1287
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 1: gender identity. In other words, they should be made up

1288
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 1: of the same sort of unique character traits that are

1289
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: commonly used to differentiate straight characters from one another treated

1290
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 1: like people. But yeah, so strange. Um and the l

1291
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: G B t Q character must be tied into the

1292
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: plot in such a way that their removal from the

1293
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 1: story would have a significant impact. So this movie without

1294
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: question passes the Veto Russo test as well as the

1295
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: Bechtel test. So, in fact, I would say, in terms

1296
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 1: of the Bechtel test, this is a sort of like

1297
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: an estimated guest but I would say around seventy in

1298
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 1: the movie is characters passing the Bechdel test. It's like constant,

1299
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: constant conversations with named women who are not talking about men. So,

1300
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 1: and just imagine if they had cut Bobby's character, it

1301
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 1: could have been like, I mean, right, I think we

1302
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 1: need more Bobby Eraser. Yes, except when it's King of

1303
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: the Hill, and in that case, more more Bobby. Okay,

1304
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,759
Speaker 1: that's an interesting take. Um, we can have a Bobby

1305
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 1: de So let's rate the movie on our Nipple scale

1306
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: rating of zero to five nipples based on its portrayal

1307
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 1: of women. Um, I this is hard, this is a

1308
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:32,719
Speaker 1: this is I'm gonna give it. I think four nipples

1309
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 1: because there are brief problematic moments here and there, and

1310
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: the movie does, as we discussed, subscribe to some of

1311
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 1: the stereotypes that we see of queer women. But the

1312
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:51,240
Speaker 1: fact that the main cast is almost entirely women, and

1313
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:55,799
Speaker 1: and and a pretty diverse cast fairly yes, more diverse

1314
01:19:55,920 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 1: than your ordinary movie, but certainly but still no diversity

1315
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: in terms of body type, at least among the main

1316
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 1: four debts. Yeah, I think that aside from a few

1317
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: problems that the movie has, which I think can be

1318
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 1: attributed to it being a movie of two thousand four, um,

1319
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: I would say it does fairly well in terms of

1320
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: showing women who have agency and who are propelling the

1321
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: story forward. And it's fun to watch. It's a it's

1322
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: a funny movie. It is silly as fuck, but like,

1323
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 1: there's so little movie without the women, and without any

1324
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 1: of the women is based on a swing with some

1325
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 1: bracelets screaming at the top of his lungs. Right, the

1326
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: movie doesn't exist without the like six main female characters

1327
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 1: that are needed for this story. So good playing Bingo.

1328
01:20:55,479 --> 01:21:00,639
Speaker 1: I would watch that short film. Yes, um, so it's great.

1329
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 1: And the fact that it's, as we discussed, one of

1330
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 1: only a very small number of like fun queer women

1331
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 1: comedy movies in existence. Um, I think that's great. So yeah,

1332
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with four nipples, and I'll give one

1333
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 1: to each of the four debts. I'm gonna go three

1334
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: and a half. And the reason we didn't touch on

1335
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 1: this very much, but something that always kind of bugs

1336
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 1: me in in movies is when friendships are disrupted by

1337
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 1: a relationship, and a new relationship suddenly destroys your friendship

1338
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 1: structure entirely and send your entire life into chaos. And

1339
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: I was trying to like go through that entirely. And

1340
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 1: I do think that in some ways, like Amy's relationship

1341
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 1: totally shakes the foundation of like her relationship with all

1342
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: of her female friends. And that was the thing that

1343
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 1: I didn't I don't know, even though like her character

1344
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: ultimately grows and I think finds the best of both

1345
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:14,600
Speaker 1: schools of thought and whatever moves forward, that was like

1346
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 1: one thing that I was, like, I didn't love that.

1347
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, and I guess movies need conflict,

1348
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: and if you have a majority female cast, there's gonna

1349
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 1: be a lot of conflict and in fighting between women.

1350
01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 1: But just the whole new relationship completely destroying friendship group

1351
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:37,599
Speaker 1: for the most part, wasn't my favorite thing, but it's

1352
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 1: also basically a queer d com, which is incredible. I

1353
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's like, it's such a fun movie.

1354
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: I haven't enjoyed watching a movie twice back to back

1355
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 1: in a very long time. And it's great. I mean,

1356
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 1: for all the fun ragging on the low production values,

1357
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: it's a good movie and it's funny. The story is

1358
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 1: tight for the most Yeah, I mean it's a it's

1359
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: less than an hour and a half long. What more

1360
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: could you ask for? And so I thought, I mean,

1361
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 1: if that was the last, uh so I'll give it

1362
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 1: three and a half or three and three quarters, I

1363
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: don't know. Somewhere somewhere it's a scientific there's a Wikipedia page.

1364
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 1: Did you see that? Where people are leaving? So now

1365
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 1: I feel more conscientious of my nipple ratings and I'm

1366
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 1: like losing sleep over it. There's a Wikipedia page for

1367
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 1: for us and then they write down it's really stressful

1368
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:30,759
Speaker 1: actually about the page. I didn't know that they were

1369
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: like documenting all of our nipple games, updated rather frequently. Okay,

1370
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: so for whoever is making the Wikipedia page, I say

1371
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:42,599
Speaker 1: three point seven five and I answer yes, final answer,

1372
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:46,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give also, if you are making the Wikipedia page,

1373
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: let us know that it's used so that we can

1374
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 1: credit you if you want. So, I guess I'm gonna

1375
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,799
Speaker 1: give one to each of the debs, except I'm giving

1376
01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:00,280
Speaker 1: slightly less of one to Janet. Okay, sorry in it,

1377
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: but you are a kid rock sister, so life's Hardlee.

1378
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: Do you want to go next with your Yeah? I do,

1379
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 1: And I'm so torn as well because I feel like,

1380
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 1: if I vote with my heart and my nostalgic love

1381
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: for this movie, I want to give it four nipples.

1382
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 1: I do also feel like I think it comes in

1383
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: slightly lower than that, and I think my problems do

1384
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 1: have to do somewhat with the fact that I think

1385
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 1: Ellie and I both have our issues with the whole

1386
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:32,920
Speaker 1: predatory lesbian trope, and I also do have an issue

1387
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: with the fact that I feel like they really toy

1388
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 1: in this with um the age that they're supposed to appear,

1389
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,000
Speaker 1: and so when you combine the predatory lesbian trope, but

1390
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: the fact that they're very much casting them as like

1391
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: high school girls, even though they try to make it

1392
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:52,480
Speaker 1: clear that they're not, but it sort of keeps presenting

1393
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: them that way. Like I that I have a hard

1394
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: time with. So yeah, I mean maybe maybe somewhere around

1395
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 1: you know three and a half? Can we do we

1396
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: get to assign them as well? Yes, this is so exciting.

1397
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't I didn't prepare well enough to this. Okay,

1398
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: if I have just signed three and a half Nipples,

1399
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to assign one to Scud for his excellent

1400
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:20,719
Speaker 1: motivational quotes. I'm going to give one to Max because

1401
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 1: I just I think Max should get something more in

1402
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 1: this movie. I'm going to give one to h Angela

1403
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 1: Robinson for you know, just the gift of this and

1404
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 1: other things that she has given queer women. And I'm

1405
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 1: going to save my last half of Nipple and I'm

1406
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 1: going to gift it to Australia because like, what did

1407
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 1: Australia do to you? Australia gets sank or their attitude

1408
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 1: all right, Well, I think I have to agree with

1409
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 1: Lee that it's around three and a half. Mine is

1410
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 1: because of some of the homophobic comments that just like,

1411
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:00,639
Speaker 1: even if you're saying them in sad higher, I think

1412
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:04,759
Speaker 1: they create a problematic message of friends not being supportive

1413
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:09,799
Speaker 1: of their friends in lesbian relationships. And I think also

1414
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:15,280
Speaker 1: the relationship between Lucy and Amy were of course, I

1415
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 1: love seeing them together, but when you actually take their

1416
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 1: relationship and put it on paper, it's very stockery, so

1417
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,639
Speaker 1: I really don't like that. That being said, I am

1418
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 1: going to give a nipple to Lucy Diamond because nobody

1419
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 1: has given her a nipple, and just what a hero

1420
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: she needs one? All right, um, I'm also going to

1421
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:39,759
Speaker 1: give a nipple to Max of course, and Miss Petrie

1422
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 1: because I love the time, and then half we'll have

1423
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 1: to go to Dominique because I feel like she's the

1424
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: underdog of this. She has a lot of agency and

1425
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 1: she's very sex positive to me, so Amy calls her

1426
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: a sex addict. So love it. Well. I think you

1427
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: to both of you so much for being here with us.

1428
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,680
Speaker 1: This has been such a fun episode in such a

1429
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 1: fun movie to discuss. You like having us. Thank you.

1430
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 1: Where can people find you and follow you online? Is

1431
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:16,719
Speaker 1: there anything that you would like to plug in terms

1432
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: of social media? You can find us at les Hangout

1433
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 1: Pod on all the social media's Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook,

1434
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: and we also have a YouTube channel YouTube dot com

1435
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 1: slash Let's Hangout Pod and we post songs on there.

1436
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:33,559
Speaker 1: We actually write original songs based on lesbian movies. You

1437
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: can see some of those on our YouTube channel. Yes, um,

1438
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: you can also follow us individually. Are our social media things.

1439
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at ls H Foster

1440
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,759
Speaker 1: and I'm at Ellie Bridgeta and we do want to plug.

1441
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 1: We have our very first live show coming up on

1442
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: February eighth at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. UM, so we

1443
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 1: will be doing some fun things there about movie that

1444
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 1: should have been gay even if they weren't. Oh that

1445
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:08,919
Speaker 1: sounds awesome. Yeah, take a trip to New York. Probably

1446
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 1: going to do one in l A at some point,

1447
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 1: so hopefully catch you there. Yeah, let us know. Well,

1448
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 1: thank you again so much for being here. You can

1449
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:21,639
Speaker 1: follow us The Bechtel Cast on social media platforms at

1450
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon a k a.

1451
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,719
Speaker 1: Matreon where you get two bonus episodes every single month

1452
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:33,439
Speaker 1: and it's only five dollars a month. You can go

1453
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 1: to bechtel cast dot com. We have our merch store there,

1454
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,240
Speaker 1: or you can go to t public dot com slash

1455
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:41,759
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast and you can get all of our

1456
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: cool merch, all of our designs, all of our items

1457
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:51,040
Speaker 1: are right there. Get it for your sweetheart, oh yeah,

1458
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 1: or yourself, anybody, or your brother or your sister, literally anyone,

1459
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,719
Speaker 1: whatever it flows through. But I just gave my dad

1460
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:04,920
Speaker 1: a beckdel Cast mug because my dad is a dad

1461
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:08,360
Speaker 1: and therefore he likes mugs, Dad's love mugs. And I

1462
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 1: sent it to him and he sent me back a

1463
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:14,240
Speaker 1: text of his mug full of pens and the caption

1464
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:19,799
Speaker 1: was my pens. So beckdel Cast mugs are great for pens,

1465
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: mug love mugs, my dad's dating profile, uh and rate

1466
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: and review us on iTunes and all that fun stuff

1467
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:34,479
Speaker 1: and otherwise, We'll see you next week. By