WEBVTT - Chip Fluctuations and Musk's SEC Probe 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.439 And Caroline hide up Bloomberg's world head quarters in New York, 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.320 and I made Ludlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.279 Technology in Caroline, big tech sounding or warning for three. 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:26.720 The market seems really calm about what they're seeing, managing 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.040 to shake off some of the chip concern even as 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.120 that isn't just around earnings but about geopolitics as well. 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.640 And we're back here in New York. They're they're in SF. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:36.960 But we're both going to be looking at the Nasdaq 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.840 one hundred best week in months. Hey, but not without 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.199 major fluctuations in the semiconductor space after Intel's dismal earnings 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.120 and there's new curbs for China made chips. Then Elon 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.800 Musk faces an SEC probe over his role in misguided 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.400 claims about Tesla's autopilot system the Bloomberg scoop and thousands 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.840 of tech workers got laid off after they came to 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.160 the US on work is what one nonprofits doing about it? 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.800 But first I check in all these markets, and Ed 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.039 was talking about it, the fact that we see resilience, 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.840 even though there's some worrying signs amid a number of 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:11.399 the earliers that came out this week, and we think 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.640 of the intels and Microsoft of course Texas instruments as well. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:16.160 But then as that manages to push on up more 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.560 than a percentage point. In fact, we are really seeing 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.440 this particular index on a role highest in September over 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.520 the last year, four straight weeks of growth that we've 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.920 seen four straight weeks of games. We haven't seen that 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.200 back since August two. Or Country World and Next also 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.200 gets a slight bid today, up about a quarter percent, 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.319 nowhere near the enthusiasm in the US though many focused 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:37.559 on the Federal Reserve next sweep. Many focused, of course 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.440 on what it means for interest rate path. We're looking 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.440 at Bloomberg Commodity Index. Interesting me thinking ahead of China's 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.640 reopening after the looonar New Year next week, maybe some 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.319 money coming back out of copper for example. Let's look 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.800 it on. Let's look at what is a really for 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.680 out and out technology focus That is the socks. Because 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.440 as much as we saw that enthusiasm around the NASDAC head, 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.080 really the chip sector ruling US lower off by seven 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.480 tenths of ascent for the lived at Philadelphia Semiconductor Index. Yeah, look, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:05.320 I'm going to start on the positive here and focus 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:09.160 straight on Tesla. Really big jump on Friday, continuing the 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.600 momentum for earnings, but the thirty three percent gain on 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.920 the week it's best week going back to May of 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:18.519 two thousand thirteen. Clearly investors are believing what Elon must 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:21.320 has to say about momentum. The negative is behind me, right? 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.120 Which is Intel having its worst week since December, It's 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.119 biggest drop on Friday for a single session since September. 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.160 Is this a question about what's happening in a cyclical 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.360 chip sector or is this a question about what is 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.400 happening with Intel specifically? That is the question that I have. 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.520 What is wrong with Intel? So great? We had the 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.040 best person talk with about this, Daniel Flax, Managing director 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.640 senior research analysts covering the technology sector broadly at New 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:53.000 Burger Berman seven billions of course in assets under management. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.840 That is the question what is wrong with Intel? Dan? Intel? 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:02.840 He is going through a multi year transition, and if 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.079 we step back and think about the past decade, the 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:10.919 company uh lost competitiveness. They weren't making products that were 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.800 as cutting edge as they had previously, and so what's 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:15.880 changed in the last couple of years is You've had 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:21.480 CEO Pat Gelsinger come back to the company really reinvest aggressively, 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.120 bringing new people like CFO Dave's inster UH whom we 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.640 think highly of along with Pat and and they are 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:31.960 working to to UH execute better on the product roadmaps, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.920 UH deliver value to customers and certainly when we speak 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.839 to the customers, Intel remains strategic and so looking out, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.120 I think there's a multi year journey still ahead for Intel. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.520 But if they can make better products, I think UH, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.240 I think they can deliver value for customers and ultimately 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.160 for shareholders as well, then it's replating this out further. 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.040 How worried about you about the end markets? You know, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:59.560 you look at PC, desktop, also servers, and what Intel 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.280 had to say about the first half of this year 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.600 in particular, what does that tell you about what's to 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.000 come for the technology sector. Certainly we're in a period 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.880 where where there's cyclical headwinds. Um If we think back 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.760 over the past couple of years, there was enormous demands 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:19.080 save for for PCs as one example, during lockdowns during 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.920 during during the worst of COVID, and so there's a 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.640 little bit of digestion of that. So I I expect 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.200 over the next several months the the industry will work 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.960 through UH. Inventories in PCs is one example. The economy 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.000 is slowing, its impacting enterprises as they spend. But if 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.240 we look out till later this year and really further 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.160 into four I think we'll see better growth. And so 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.880 the companies that have the products, that have the solutions UH, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.159 those can benefit. And if we step back and look 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.760 at some of the secular trends, so for example, artificial 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:56.000 intelligence UH, the the ability to deliver value in areas 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.760 like drug discovery. Look at a company like in video 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.479 it two faces cyclical headwinds, but they have tremendous growth 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.159 drivers and product cycles in areas like the data center. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.640 So we still see opportunities. Certainly their near term headwinds though. 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.680 Talk about those headwinds that aren't just perhaps cyclical in nature, Daniel, 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.680 but they're also related to geopolitics, and the video is 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.880 just one of them, which of course has China exposure. 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.520 I'm thinking today of the the scoop really coming from 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.760 Bloomberg talking about how the Biden administration is getting closer 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.120 to getting Japan the Netherlands to come on side to 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.880 limit China's access to the semiconductor technology that it so 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.320 wishes to build. How is that help or hindrance to 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:39.640 some of these US players. I think the geopolitical and 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.960 the trade tension click. Clearly, it's been with US for 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.279 several years and it's continuing to intensify. It is having 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:49.840 impact on some companies ability to ship the most advanced 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.120 technologies into markets like China. But but I think globally 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.960 demand for these products over the next several years is 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.680 likely to be healthy, and that's driven by by build 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.080 out example of the cloud in really this digital infrastructure. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.480 And so in the near term the restrictions are going 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.960 to impact companies that that do sell in certain cases 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.320 with certain products into China. But I think ultimately that 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.200 demand UH does grow and those companies like a SM 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.359 Lithography is one example, we will continue to have attractive 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.240 multi year growth prospects. What about the R and D 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.280 that then is still needed as we see the cyclical nature, 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.440 the fall away of PC demand, the fact that we're 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.280 going to see slowing revenues that some analysts just said 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.520 we're what was phenomenal staggering was one of the words used. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.280 Are we're still going to have to see this sort 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.840 of spend come in that means of seeing these fabs 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.599 come up in the United States and all bringing it 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:49.520 closer shore. I think the build out in the United States, 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.280 in Europe, in other geographies outside of Asia will continue, 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.279 but but it's a multi year process to build them 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.360 and to equip them, and and of course a modern 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.719 fab could cost around twenty billion dollars, so it's no 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:07.480 small financial undertaking. I think the the industry will remain cyclical. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.359 But but if we look out to the middle and 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.600 really the latter part of the decade, demand for silicon 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.640 is likely to continue growing. And that's because it's not 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.960 just in PCs and smartphones. It's really going everywhere. And 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.680 that I think is the bigger story in many ways 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.880 in terms of this transformation of the industrial landscape putting 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.800 intelligence into all sorts of devices. You have companies like 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.400 Qualcom for example, that do that. So there's a lot 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.280 of growth even with cyclicality. Words an I want to 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.760 go to Calcom really quickly. They report next week. The 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.400 story there is about diversifying away from the smartphone. Do 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.280 you think that they'll buck the trend we've seen in 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.760 a limited way so sl far from the chip sector. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.640 They're they're also going to be impacted by it by 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.880 some of the smartphone industry inventories that have built up. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.360 But as we look out over the next several months, 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.880 I think what we'll see is that China is beginning 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.280 to open up. China is an enormous market for smartphones 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.080 and other mobile devices, and Quacom will benefit from that 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.559 from that growth rebound. I think the bigger story, though, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.400 beyond that, is their success in areas like automobiles, where 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.160 they have a thirty billion dollar design wind pipeline, and 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.920 so CEO Christiano amon I think is making the right investments. 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:23.160 They're diversifying the company and their intellectual property in key 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:27.720 areas like connectivity and security and automation are powerful and 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.600 valuable to customers. Daniel Gregg's have some time with the 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.360 have a wonderful weekend. Daniel Flax, Managing director, SENI to 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.439 research analyst over a Newberger berm and really going through 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.800 whole host of names in the chip space. We've got 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.120 another one for you, because let's talk about in Vidia. 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.000 It's conserving pretty well of late and the president of 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.840 the CEO, Jensen Kuang, who's been doing particularly well to 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.719 be perhaps building his wealth, largely in part because of 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.560 the sore and popularity of chat GPT. This man has 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.320 seen his fortune climb by three percent this year of 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.839 eighteen billion dollars now is his overall fortune after videos 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.160 become basically a dominant player empowering AI applications, automous cars, robots, 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.400 to crypto, to mining. Of course, and speciality that's made 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.800 at one of Wall Street's top wages for how to 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.480 profit from the rapid business interest in AI. So I 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.040 guess in spite of Intel's fall, in spite of the 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.600 doom and the gloom ed, it feels as though in 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.920 particular there's some hope around chipmakers. Morgan Stanley actually had 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.760 this take on it. We do like some of the 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:27.839 semiconductors down here that that look like they're starting to 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:32.400 put encycliculturals in the traditional sense. Some of the software 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:39.280 services companies nice pivot there from semiconductors to software companies. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.640 And we can delve into one key software company now 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.679 because Salesforce appointing three new independent directors to its board 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.800 as the pressure builds from activists and mrs. Of course, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.200 that's talked to be mostly Anna Baker for more on this, 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.559 And really it was the scoop from d Hammond yesterday 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.120 and from your team that we would likely to see 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.920 these caster characters come onto the board, and well it 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.240 occurs to the Anna, So some of the casts of 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.200 characters have come on the board Value Act. Uh you 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.000 know that mystery activist investor. We were trying to figure 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.800 out who else was in there besides Starboard, Elliott and 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.880 Jeff of it. So this is really the start of something. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.920 Value Acts certainly will have an influence on the board. 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.920 They're very interested in, you know, corporate governance and making changes, 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.480 but in a friendly way with the company. But there's 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.440 still the question of what happened with these other activists 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.640 who are still very much involved. And the shares were 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.160 muted today, so um, you know, the news was received 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.199 okay by the market, but I think there's going to 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.000 be some more action on this one. Leona. Let's stick 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.000 with that kind of main protagonist. Then I suppose for 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.520 one of a better description, who is Mason will fit 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.319 and talk to us about Value Act. They track record 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.040 what it is they come into companies and do well. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.280 They're based on your part of the world. San Francisco 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.320 may have a A A thirteen billion under management, and Mason 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.800 Morpha is no stranger to tech apology. He sat on 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:05.880 the Microsoft board for about four years from fourteen to seventeen. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.400 I heard the stock in that time doubled, So he 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:14.679 will definitely bring that experience public board experience with him. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.760 Uh and you know they're they're known for making changes, 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.720 as I mentioned in a friendly way with the company, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.600 So it'll be good to have some sort of uh 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.080 investor viewpoint on the board to help because the shares 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:32.160 are trading so great for Salesforce bloom Bosleyana Baker leading 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.400 a big week for our deal's team out of New York, 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.520 Thank you so much. Meanwhile, back here in San Francisco, 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:42.760 regulators investigating Elon Musk's role in shaping Tesla's self driving 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:46.079 car claims. The review is part of an ongoing SEC 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.800 probe of the company's statements about its autopilot driver autopilot 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.239 driver assistant system that, according to a Bloomberg surce, officials 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:59.240 awaghing whether Mosque specifically may have inappropriately made forward looking 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.920 statements and carry this this story, this reporting hot on 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.000 the heels of that other scoot from Danna Hole in 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.720 Sean o'caine earlier this month about the video right the 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.680 emails where Elon Musk is directing the language used behind 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.960 how they described Autopilot in those nation stages, and the 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.280 SEC is just hot in his heels, isn't it? In 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.040 every sort of direction of this. But ultimately it all 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.560 comes down to the fact, and it's almost reminiscent of 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.559 what he's just been in court trying to explain around 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.720 his tweet of funding secured. Is when you're a CEO, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.200 the leader of a business, the visionary, when you say 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.160 certain things, people believe them and they end up being 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.640 forward looking guidance basically whether or not he wants them 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.439 to be. Yeah, and Boomberg's source pointing out this is 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.120 an extension of the existing SEC probe, which was originally 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.400 reported by a number of media outlets back in October. 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.360 It's Today's Bloomberg Big Take Daiy Albert Kurt Wagner taking 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.679 a deep dive into one of Elon Musk's most faithful supporters. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.000 She Twitter's head of trust and safety and seems willing 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.839 to overlook protocol to appease her new boss. Those cut 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.480 Wagner joins us now on it. So, first and foremost, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:21.040 who is Yeah, so Ella is the head of Trust 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.719 and Safety at Twitter. So she's essentially in charge of 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.240 a lot of the teams that work on you know, 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.240 keeping Twitter safe. Right. They used to fight misinformation, they 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.000 used to take down hate speech. Um. You know, this 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.040 is the same group that, for example, was responsible for 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.680 suspending President Donald Trump a few years ago. Right. And 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.040 so this is a pretty high profile job. A lot 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:45.120 of these decisions we've seen be very controversial over the years. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.200 So the person who kind of runs trust and safety 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.120 at Twitter has always been a high profile role in 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.679 that regard because the decisions that are made are so 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.920 important to free speech on the internet. Right. And so 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.839 she stepped into a very senior position under Elon in 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.400 just the last couple of months. But that was what 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.040 I found so interesting about this. You and I have 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.120 done a lot of reportings together over recent months and 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.679 more than recent months, honestly, and that was the name 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.840 I didn't recognize. You know, we we documented on a 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.280 day by day basis the people leaving Twitter those that 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.040 chose to stay. So now my question is what is 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.320 it that she's doing? You know, what is the crux 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.920 of your big tape story that you've learned about her 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.840 role within the building. Yeah, well you probably aren't familiar 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.600 with her name because she really just joined Twitter over 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.960 the summer, just a few months before Elon Musk took over, Right, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.920 So she was not necessarily a senior leader in the 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.760 way that a lot of employees were, someone who a 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.240 lot of employees were familiar with by the time that 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.280 the deal closed. Right. But what we you know, pointed 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:46.760 out in our big take and why I think this 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.640 is an interesting story is that, you know, they're kind 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.440 of bucking a lot of the trends of of of 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.120 trust and safety over at Twitter these days. Right. I mean, 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.080 this is a this is an organization that exists at 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.440 Facebook and YouTube and all the other social players, and 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.760 you know, the last couple of years, we've seen these 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.160 groups get really refined. Right. They have tons of policies, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.720 they have tons of procedures. Um, there's a there's kind 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.560 of a standard way of doing some of this stuff, right, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.800 and under Elon, a lot of that has gotten thrown 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.320 out the window. And so we've seen, um, you know, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.760 for example, they're just got rid of their COVID misinformation policies. 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.280 One example, you may remember ed a few weeks ago 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.960 they just started suspending journalists, uh, sort of without a 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.960 great explanation, right, And so what we've seen is just 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:30.800 kind of like this playbook that I think a lot 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:32.800 of folks are familiar with get tossed out. And that's 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.440 why we find it interesting. Well, give us some some 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.520 sort of granularity around the decisions or actions that she 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.760 is carrying out I suppose on a month behalf. Yeah, Well, 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.960 typically these types of things would go through a strict process, right, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.960 you know, they might go through multiple teams, multiple layers, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.840 certainly multiple levels of review. And what we've seen, and 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:54.960 what we mentioned in our story was that, you know, 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.440 we've seen screenshots of things like, hey, we want this 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.240 account suspended on the order of Elon, or want to 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.440 suspend it on the order of Ella, right, and these 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.880 are just again not the way that usually these checks 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.040 and balances tend to work. And so there's a lot 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:09.960 of people in the world of trust and safety who 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.760 are worried that there's simply just too much power being 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.480 held by one or two people here in this instance, 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.160 and that you know, if they're not following a lot 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:21.000 of these checks and balances that were used to you know, 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.320 you don't know exactly where where that's going to end up, right, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.280 And again, these journalists being sort of suspended out of 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.720 the blue is just one example, but you can imagine 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.320 that being extrapolated to a bunch of different accounts. Her 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:37.240 rise or indeed her remaining. How have people talked about 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.920 that and the way in which she's navigated her career 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.000 with Twitter? Sure? Well, I mean I think the issue 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.920 is not at all that Ella is is I'm incompetent 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.400 or anything like that. I mean, she's had a bunch 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.400 of really strong roles at tech companies before. She's described 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.880 to us as an incredible operator, someone who's very organized, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.800 he's very passionate, who who's very um, you know, emotional 0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.880 about the things that that she cares about. But I 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.080 don't think she had much experience doing uh, you know, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.360 speech policy, right, Like a lot of times will see 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.959 with trust and safety, their their academics or their lawyers, 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:09.680 or the people who have maybe spent their whole life 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.399 thinking about things like affection two thirty. That does not 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.080 that is not Ella's background, right, And so I think 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.640 there's a little bit of concern Again, from people who 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.239 were within Twitter's trust and safety, but even just like 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.080 the broader industry that you know, she's now in a 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.919 role that requires that type of nuance, and you know, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:28.800 it's something that you build over time, and I'm just 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.680 not sure that she's been in that role long enough, 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.960 especially with Ellen and how he operates that it's instilling 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.719 a lot of confidence in people right now. Bloom bes 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.280 Kurt wagging a great report saying keeping us posted on 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.800 what's happening inside the bird's nest. We'll get more from 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.679 you next week, Thank you very much. Meanwhile, the information 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.040 says Apple plans to develop software to help users of 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.440 its mixed reality headset build their own acts. The company's 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.200 working on its own are content for its three thousand 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.160 dollar headset. According to the report, Apple hopes that even 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.480 people who don't know computer code can use the software 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.000 to tell the headset via Syrie to build an a 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.000 r app. That application would then be available on its 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.199 app store for others to download. Carrol, you reckon you 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.560 can be an app developer through the headset? Is that 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:17.280 within your skill set? Most definitely probably through chat GPT rank. 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.600 I mean we've played around with the headsets I can't 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.639 imagine going as far as sort of coding within it 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.240 or making a command to beyond video games. It's interesting 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.760 use case. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to leave it 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.520 to the professionals, But I mean, who knows how creative 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.000 we can become when left to war own devices. I 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:36.960 first need the three thousand dollars you can give me 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.600 that why I can then start doing it. Yeah, I mean, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:41.800 this story about the headsets just not going to go away? 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.360 Is it? Anyway? Coming up? More pain for Indian tycoon 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.360 Galton at Danney's Corporate Empire will tell you the extent 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.000 of the damages caused by that short sells report. That's next. 0:18:52.080 --> 0:19:16.680 This is bloom Buck Who are Hindenberg Research? The u 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.840 S investment firm says it specializes in forensic financial research 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.560 and publishing short sellers reports. Hindenberg's in the news again 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.040 with wide ranging allegations against conglomerates owned by galtam Adani, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.200 Asia's richest person. Founded by a guy called Nate Anderson, 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.800 the firm's named after the seven Hindenburg disaster. Hindenberg says 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.399 it looks for similar man made disasters that may be 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.440 floating around the market and aims to shed light on them. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.600 Hindenberg says it seeks results around covering hard to find 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:50.320 information from quote atypical sources, but warns investors, opinions and 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:54.080 investigative commentary are his own readers advised. The use of 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.760 its material is at your own risk. The firm really 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.240 hit the headlines in targeting electric truck making the killer, 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.040 and it's founded Trevor Milton. They claimed Milton deceived investors. 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.240 Ultimately Milton resigned. There was a criminal investigation and trial 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.840 and Milton was found guilty of securities and Wye fraud. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.400 Now that you know what Hindenberg does, here's a little 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.720 bit more about why you heard about them this week. 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.800 It issued a report on Tuesday detailing wide ranging allegations 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.400 of corporate malpractice at A Darni Enterprises following a two 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.720 year investigation. The market route that followed a raised more 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.720 than fifty one billion dollars of value this week across 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:36.199 the Empire, which is owned by Gautamer Danny, Asia's richest man. 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.200 The Darney Group, the main listed part of the conglomerate, 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.600 disputed Hindenberg's allegations Thursday, but it's stopped just kept plunging. 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.320 The firm lost almost on Friday, biggest drop Carrow since 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.200 seen an issue as he wants to raise funds. An 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.760 issue is well, because tell us why this is a 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.200 technology story. What is it in the conglomerate that in 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.840 our industry? Two reasons One a on he's moved into 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.840 media companies. But to the thesis from Hindenburg is that 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.440 even his cement companies trade, they have multiples like text stocks, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.399 and that for them was a worrying side. And Hindenberg, 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.000 again a short seller, take a caution what they say, 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:20.400 but they see potential downside drop from where they think 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.760 these assets are really valued. Well, that's certainly made their 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.359 impact from a monetary value perspective over there in India. 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.480 So we're going to keep all over that sort of 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:39.879 a story. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Karen Hyde 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.160 back in New York, San Francisco based Ed Ludlow. You're there, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.840 and and actually both of us took a keen eye 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.120 on what's happening in terms of earnings, particularly credit card 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.880 giant American Express today right because their shares absolutely spiraling 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.800 higher up ten and it's because the company gave a 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.720 pretty upbeat revenue forecast. They had record number of new 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.680 cardholders two and I actually got to have a quick 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.680