WEBVTT - Weirdhouse Cinema: Blue Sunshine 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.560 Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.000 And this is Joe McCormick. 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.560 This week we're discussing a film that's really been on 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.000 the Weird House Cinema list pretty much from the get go, 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:26.040 and that is Blue Sunshine, a weird independent thriller and 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:30.080 kind of secret Christmas movie from nineteen seventy seven that 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:36.599 melds sensationalized media ideas about psychedelics with chilling horror and 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.960 a biting critique of post sixties anxiety and hippie disillusionment. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.959 It's also, in my opinion, just as cutting today. I mean, 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.120 it has its goofy moments to be cleared. We'll get 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.920 into those which are quite enjoyable, but the terror and 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.600 the anxiety in the picture absolutely holds up, as does 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.120 I think. It's vision of a world in which to 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.680 invoke under s Thompson, the wave of optimism and progress 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.800 as seemingly crashed and fallen back, given way to a 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.360 world that seems to be spinning on, untethered from our will, 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.240 enraptured by commercialism, and at the same time we find 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.120 ourselves taking in more con Man dreams of a better tomorrow, 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:20.440 perhaps delusions not that dissimilar to the same things that 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.560 we saw as revelations a mere decade ago. And at 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.360 the same time, I think it's also a film about 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.240 the journey out of youth into middle age, out of hope, 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.000 into well, maybe uncertainty. 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.759 I would say that this is the paranoid horror spin 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:38.240 on the Big Chill. Yeah, but I totally agree with 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.480 what you said about the duality of this movie. I 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.039 would put it in the Suspiria zone, comparing it to 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.160 the Dario Argento film Syspiria, in that it is both 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:54.520 extremely effective as intended as horror, Like there is some 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.640 of the scary stuff in this movie is terrifying. It 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.840 is it is so so strong, But it is also 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.480 extremely unintentionally funny in the same way that you have 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.920 both of these things in Suspiria. So in Suspiria you 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.320 have great you know, the witch looming out the window 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.520 and the darkness and and those great scenes of terror 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.040 creeping down the hall as the music swells. You know, 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.359 it's great stuff. But then you've also got the bat 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.440 that looks like a pair of rolled up socks and 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.920 the hilarious line deliveries. That's all there. Similar kind of 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:32.080 thing here, the kind of paranoia and anxiety that this 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:37.240 movie creates about a the kind of time bomb of unwellness, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.280 like the idea that you have done something to your 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.960 body and your mind already years ago, and there's no 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.799 way to go back and fix it, and now it 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.200 is just it is just mounting in its takeover of 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:55.160 your psyche. It's a truly terrifying atmosphere that's created there. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.200 And at the same time, there is a lot of 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.639 wig stuff in this movies, like people trying to grab 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.800 wigs off people's heads and like bald guys running around 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.760 beating people up in the disco, and it's like truly 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.720 a banquet of many different kinds of movie pleasure all 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:13.480 packed into one. 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.000 Yeah, there's more than one scene where the protagonist is 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.600 clearly trying to decide whether he should try and snatch 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.760 that wig or not snatch somebody's hair and see if 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.480 it's a wig, which is just, yeah, kind of inherently goofy. 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.959 But you can't take it away from the film because 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.280 like a lot of the stuff that works so extremely 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.800 well is tied into that concept. Yeah, and yeah, I 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.040 agree on the central paranoia of the piece, something that 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.560 I mean clearly speaks to anyone who is growing older. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.800 You know, you don't have to have ever consumed an 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.400 illicit drug of any kind to have those kind of 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.360 concerns about, you know, should I have you know, smoked, 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.440 should I have you know, did I drink too much alcohol? 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.320 That I do something unhealthy, that I make some sort 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.600 of choices in my life that are going to come 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.880 back to me, and so forth. And then it does 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.520 tie in, of course, really well then with the experience 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.040 of anyone who has engaged in any of these substances. 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:08.800 So it works in both ways. 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.280 That's right. It's a kind of Cronenbergian escalation of that 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.080 normal wellness concern where you worry like, oh, is the 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.720 fact that I used to smoke or used to drink 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:19.320 too much or something? Is that going to come back 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.640 and bite me? These worries about our health, except turn 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.039 that from a general worry about health into a worry 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.839 about your sanity, you know, a worry that it will 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.480 come back and it will turn you into a homicidal maniac. 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.880 Something you did ten years ago that you can't undo. 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.640 Yeah, because that's the basic premises. We'll get into the 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.919 idea that there is a strain of LSD called Blue 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:45.120 Sunshine that ten years ago, what sixty seven, I think, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:49.159 I think the year before the summer I Love people 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.599 took it, but it has been like a ticking time bomb, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.400 and now ten years later it is starting to transform 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:02.039 people suddenly rapidly into homicidal maniacs, you know, changing their 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.359 DNA perhaps even you know, adjusting the chromosomes and so forth. 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.320 And yeah, it's like these are people who were ten 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.720 years removed from the person they were when they took 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:14.760 those drugs to begin with. 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.760 Yeah. Yeah, Now there's another thing I wanted to talk 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:19.880 about that really stuck out to me on this viewing 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:21.560 of Blue Sunshine. This is not the first time I've 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.080 seen the movie. My friend Ben showed this to me 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:25.840 years and years ago. I might have even been in 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.239 high school or maybe early in college when he screened 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.880 this for me at his house, you know, And I 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.800 was really shocked by it then, and it stuck with 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:37.920 me for years. I think you and I literally talked 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:41.960 about doing Blue Sunshine ever since the first week we 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.120 were making Weird House Cinema. It was like one of 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:45.640 the first movies on our list. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.440 Yeah, I mean it is a hugely popular, you know, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.960 cult status weird film. So yeah, yeah, it's it's been 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:54.600 on the list since the beginning. I don't know, it 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.360 just seemed too soon somehow, like we haven't earned it yet. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:00.440 But anyway, So there was a thing I was going 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.839 to get into, which is an interesting distinction I noticed, 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.040 which separates it from most of the other movies I 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:11.599 would think of as psychedelic films. There is almost no 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:17.200 psychedelic imagery or journeying into the mind or the perception 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:22.000 of people on psychedelics within Blue Sunshine. So there are 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.760 a lot of characters that are clearly having bad psychedelic 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:31.920 experiences in the movie, but we don't see from their perspective. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.960 We only see them from the outside behaving erratically. And 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:38.800 this is really unique. I mean, I think about all 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:43.560 these other sixties drug movies, psychedelic movies, they all employ 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.120 some kind of like weird imagery to show the psychedelic 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.160 perspective of hallucinations, or they employ camera techniques to show 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.600 visual you know, they do double exposures and weird kind 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:58.640 of special effects to create that psychedelic viewpoint. This movie 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:01.120 has really none of that. It's a movie about the 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:06.320 dark side of extraordinary experiences within the mind, which, in 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.440 its own perspective, the perspective of the camera is committed 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:15.080 to an almost entirely material meat space picture. Do you 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:16.040 know what I'm talking about? 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.040 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I mean because I mean, cinematically, the 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.080 psychedelic look was well established by this point, you know, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.080 and we've all seen I think a lot of most 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.559 of the listeners to Weird House Cinema have seen films 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.240 that have psychedelic elements, you know, swirling colors, you know, 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.680 some sort of groovy in camera technique, or you know, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.080 even some other kind of like special effect. A lot 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.960 of this stuff was already well established. In fact, the 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.680 Blu Ray that I used to watch Blue Sunshine this 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.520 is the film centric Blu Ray edition. As an extra 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.080 amid some other really cool extras, it features an eighteen 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:00.640 minute nineteen sixty seven anti drug documentary titled LSD Insight 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.240 or Insanity, and it's terrific, and it contains plenty of 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.760 cliche and even quite inventive psychedelic sequences, you know, like 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.640 swirling colors, people like blurring in and out of existence, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.360 strange things happening in the mirror. 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.160 I didn't get a chance to watch this in full, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.600 but you shared it with me and I saw the beginning, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.560 which was really great because it does not begin like 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.320 showing you people taking tabs of acid and saying like 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.800 the menace that threatens your mind. Instead, it begins by 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.320 showing a bunch of high schoolers and the narrators like 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:39.320 teenagers love to express themselves, even the boys. Yeah, it's 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.240 about like clothes and hairstyles. And I was just like, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.079 how are we going to get to the acid from this? 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:46.720 But of course it goes on to like you know, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.880 show parties. And there's one screen cap I pulled here 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.079 in our chat that's just like a lady with a 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.680 lighter in front of her face that says, why be 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:56.560 lame baby? 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.960 Yeah, LSD insider insanity. It's it's in full on YouTube, 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.840 so you can find it out there. But but yeah, 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.840 with this film with Blue Sunshine, it seems to make 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.840 a conscious decision to avoid many of the trappings of 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:17.439 cinematic psychedelia for whatever reason, you know, be it budgetary 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.760 or I think I would be inclined to think it 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.120 is just like an absolute creative choice here. It absolutely works. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.680 I mean, these are all characters for whom the world 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:32.120 of psychedelic experience was previously like you know, out there, 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.800 and now at this point in their lives, it is 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.960 very much like receding inside them. You know, they have 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.480 the memories of those days. It's part of who they were, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.280 maybe only a small part of who they are now, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.240 and only you know, slightly connected to this world they're 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.760 living in. It's like an echo and therefore, I don't know, 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.920 it kind of makes sense that we don't see it 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.840 as much. All right. My elevator pitch for this one 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.839 is pretty simple. It's maybe you took too much acid. Yeah, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.400 a right. Let's go ahead and listen to a little 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:02.559 bit of the trailer audio here. 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:50.040 The nightmare has begun. Blue Sunshine, Blue Sunshine, It could 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.360 happen to you. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.200 And we'll come back to discuss some of the marketing 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:02.319 materials here, Becau, because the marketing materials for Blue Sunshine 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.280 certainly ratcheted up the drug exploitation elements of the picture, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.559 and you can argue to what extent those elements are 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.760 actually present in the film itself. 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.520 Were they trying to blair which this thing a little 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:17.080 bit kind of making it like this is real. Blue 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:18.760 Sunshine is a real phenomenon. 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:20.719 I think so because if you look at there's one 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.000 poster in particular that I think is just ridiculous and 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.720 it says like, bigger than the title of the film, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.800 you have warning if you were one of the millions 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.520 who took hallucinogens in the late nineteen sixties, you may 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.080 be a human time bomb about to explode into a 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:39.160 bloody nightmare of uncontrollable killing. Think back, did you ever 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.880 hear the words blue Sunshine? Try to remember? Your life 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.640 may depend on it. So, I mean, clearly they're getting 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:47.040 in there. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.800 I'm of mixed feelings about that because on one hand, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.920 I feel like that's very strong marketing and it emphasizes 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.840 the effectiveness of the movie, but also like to put 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:59.120 that on the poster where it's not as clear that 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.400 this is like a thick contrive it. So that's just 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:01.960 kind of mean. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.120 Yeah, like it doesn't like this poster you have to 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.080 really scan down to see like the R rating. Otherwise, 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.280 even the credits don't look like they're not like laid 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.440 out like typical credits, so yeah, it looks like, oh, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.080 it's just a PSA about about the blue asset. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.400 To be clear to anybody listening, this is a fictional 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.440 thing in the movie. There's no such thing as Blue 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.320 Sunshine that made people's hair fall out and kill everybody. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.640 Yeah, yeah, all right, if you want to watch Blue 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.520 Sunshine for yourself, Lucky for you. Numerous special editions of 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.640 this film have come out. It's one of those where 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.319 I feel like they keep coming out with new ones. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.160 I watched it on the film Centric Blu ray rented 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.360 from Atlanta's own Video Drum. Sign Apps Films also put 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.680 out a great looking Blu ray set with some really 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.640 cool custom sleeves. I think. I think Video Drum also 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.400 has this copy as well, and I'm sure it's streamable. Yeah, 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:53.959 I watched. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.040 I watched it streaming. 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:55.760 Cool. 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.719 All right, Well, let's get into the people involved here, 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.920 starting at the top with Jeff Lieberman. He's the director, 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.840 he's the writer. He also voices the parrot, which is 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:13.440 pretty great. 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:15.880 You know, we had a parrot in our last weird 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.360 house cinema movie, remember, Oh did we? It was the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:20.559 rainbow wig guy in Rock and Roll. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.680 Yes, of course, Oh yes, a humanoid parrot that's. 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.880 Right, Yes, who was selling tickets. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:30.640 Yes, yeah so. Jeff Liberman born nineteen forty seven American 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.400 film director and writer, best known for a trio of 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:38.160 thrillers that have each gained different levels of cult movie status. 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.960 The first in this trio was nineteen seventy six. Is Squirm, 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.320 a movie about killer earthworms that many of us know 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.280 best from Mystery Science Theater three thousand. This is the 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:50.480 Now You're Gonna Be the worm Face movie? 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.440 Do I recall that the Mystery Science Theater edit of 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.160 this movie significantly sanitizes the film? 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.000 Yes? Yeah, this is one, and I have to admit 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.800 I haven't watched it in full uncut. I love this 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.440 MST three K episode, but I really owe it to 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.840 Squirm to watch the full cut that has all of 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.320 the like grotesque makeup effects by the legendary Rick Baker, 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.880 lots of worm face action in there that I really 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.360 need to I really need to watch the full uncut picture. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.160 So that Squirm. Then came this picture Blue Sunshine, and 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.640 then in nineteen eighty one he gave us Just Before Dawn, 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:29.000 that's a you know, backwood slasher starring George Kennedy. So 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.720 those are kind of the big ones. He also did 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.200 a nineteen eighty eight film titled Remote Control. That looks 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.360 pretty entertaining. We might have to come back to that one. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.960 He also worked on the screenplay for The never Ending 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.640 Story three in nineteen ninety four. I don't think that's 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.160 that's a good one, but I'm gonna mention it just 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:46.760 because it connects to the never Ending Story. 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.960 Maybe it's like The Exorcist, where the second one's bad 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:51.120 with the third one's good. Again. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.720 I have my doubts. But in the late seventies, Jeff 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.920 Lieberman was that he was a young director with a vision. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.280 That's the way A actor Robert Walden, who will come 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.480 back to in a minute, described him in an interview 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.760 that's one of the extras on the disc that I watched. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.400 It described him as a young, really kind of egotistical director, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.960 but with a firm, uncompromising vision for the cinematic world 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.600 in the story he wanted to create. He knew exactly 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.400 what he wanted to tell here, and he said in interviews. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.480 Lieberman has that he didn't see Blue Sunshine at all 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.880 as an anti drug film. He himself had experiences with 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.360 LSD that I don't know the way he was describing them. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:34.440 Some of the extras they sounded on the whole positive. He's, 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.520 you know, admittedly he's a weird dude, and he talks 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.520 about how LSD made him realize that he was so 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.640 weird and he was always going to be a little 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:49.200 removed from normal, mondane society. But but yeah, he said 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:50.320 that one of the things he set out to do 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.160 with Blue Sunshine was to use the anti drug paranoia 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.680 and propagon propaganda present in the media as a kind 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.560 of science fiction skeleton upon which to build his story, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.480 which so he compares it ultimately to the bad science 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.920 of radioactive mutation in atomic D movies of the fifties. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.720 Oh that's interesting because I was kind of wondering about 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.920 this while we were thinking about Jeff Lieberman. Here I 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.440 realized a point of comparison and a film with I 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:24.280 think you could argue similar themes. Is Penos Cosmotos is 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:25.400 Beyond the Black Rainbow. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.960 Yes, I'm certain that Blue Sunshine was a major influence. 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.000 I'm Beyond the Black Rainbow, and you know, in some 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.640 of its themes of you know, post sixties disillusionment and 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:40.160 also like mega tripping bald psychopaths. 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.960 Yeah, I mean it's a point of view I can 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.800 sympathize with, even though I don't have an overall negative 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.960 view of psychedelics, and I'm not sure that I would 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.880 suspect that penos Cosmatos does, and as you say, Lieberman 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.480 apparently did not either. But I think it's kind of 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.240 interesting to explore the dark, arker side of thing, because 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.280 darker side of this thing, because you do end up 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.879 with these people who are kind of psychedelic evangelists, you know, 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:12.960 these people like Timothy Leary who became famous for preaching 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.119 the virtues of taking psychedelics and saying, you know, all 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.240 the good things that it would do for your for 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.359 your mind, And I don't know. I think I have 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.000 a more balanced view on it, which takes the idea 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.560 of mind expansion somewhat seriously. But of course your mind 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.159 can expand in good or bad ways, and you know, 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.399 without the right kind of without the right kind of 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.040 guidance and framing of a psychedelic experience, you can imagine 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.000 it could make you a worse person. It just sort 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.760 of like opens up possibilities of personal change. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.000 Yeah, yeah, I mean, we did a whole series on 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.800 psychedelics years back. Those episodes should be available in the 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.600 archives stuffed about your mind. And yeah, one of the 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.200 things that we stress there is that, yeah, but bad 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:59.159 trips do happen, and psychedelic experiences in general tend to 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.240 have they tend to not be just like the rosy, colorful, 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.520 cinematic psychedelic experience that you see in like some of 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.440 these psychedelic films. So it's yeah, and then on top 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.600 of that, without getting you know, super into you know, 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.679 the science and history of psychedelics like it does not, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.840 they don't, they tend not, they don't work well with 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:24.560 everyone's brain chemistry, and some people absolutely should not take them. 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.720 So yeah, all of all of those caveats very much 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:28.439 in place here. 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.000 Yeah, and so I think there is an interesting cultural 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.639 role for films like this as a kind of not 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.199 that you should take Blue Sunshine seriously as like a 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.200 scenario that would actually unfold, but because on one hand, 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.639 you do have psychedelic evangelists who are out there, I 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:50.760 think over selling the unalloyed virtues of psychedelics just like, oh, 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.159 it's perfect, it's it's all good, everybody should do it. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:55.280 On the other hand, it's you know, you can get 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.520 a balance, you can get some people spinning out these 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.399 these overly negative scenarios and showing the kind of the 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.560 side of disillusionment and destruction. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.840 And then also in the same way that like really rosy, 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.840 you know, tinted psychedelic sequences in films are very entertaining. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.720 Dark psychedelia is also very entertaining, and so yeah, I 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.240 think we need both just as filmgoers. All right, let's 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.760 get into the cast here, starting at the top with 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.680 the character Jerry Zipken. We're gonna be talking about Jerry 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.760 Zipkin quite a bit here, played by Zalman King, who 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.640 lived nineteen forty two through twenty twelve. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.040 Just let me compare two things, the experience of watching 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:38.200 Blue Sunshine versus how everybody seems to write and talk 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.800 about him, which is like, this is the handsomest, sexiest 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.480 guy who has ever lived. I'm not trying to insult him. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.439 I mean, like, yeah, it's a good looking guy and 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.720 all that, but his vibe in the movie is weird. 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:51.840 I don't know, maybe it's just the character he's playing 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.080 in Blue Sunshine, but he does not come off like 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.120 a hunk of burn in love in this movie, even 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.240 though he is rather lovey dovey in some scenes. Mostly 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.800 he comes off as a weird, obsessed guy who is 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.840 on a different frequency than everybody else. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.520 Yeah, and is on the run from authority throughout most 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.400 of the pictures. So uh so, Yeah, but yeah, when 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.600 you hear when you hear people talk about him, like again, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:19.480 coming back to that Robert Walden interview on the Blu Ray, Yeah, 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.480 he talks about how just like effortlessly charming and sexy 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.640 Zaman King was and how you know, how how well 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.119 he worked with with female co stars, and but at 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.199 the same time he also talks about just like and 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:32.919 and I think this is something we do see in 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.240 his performance, about how intense and stripped down his performances 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.840 at times, Like he's definitely like manic and freaking out 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:40.920 at times. But then there are there are a lot 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.919 of scenes where you know often talk about, you know, 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.399 performances where it's all in the eyes and you can 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.040 see the gears turning behind the eyes, and we definitely 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:51.120 get that from King in. 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.879 This There are scenes where it seems like he should 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.639 be saying more, but he's just totally silent. And then 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.639 there are other scenes where he's suddenly screaming and I 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.000 don't understand why. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:06.280 Yeah, I mean he's having a rough time. Yeah, but yeah, so. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.679 Zalman King, actor turned director and producer. His acting credits 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:11.600 go back to the mid sixties. He even pops up 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.479 in a sixty five episode of The Munsters playing some 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:16.280 sort of like bearded hipster or something. 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:18.760 Is he like an egor character? 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.160 I don't know, he's like I think he's credited as 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.440 like bearded dude or something. But he did a lot 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.159 of TV westerns and the like, but his film career 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:31.040 took off more in the nineteen seventies. He's probably best 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.160 known for acting in Well This There's nineteen seventy six 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.080 is the Passover plot. He's also in nineteen eighty one's 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.760 Galaxy of Terror. He also shows up in a film 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.280 I watched in the last couple of years, nineteen eighty 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.440 two's Endangered Species. That's a tight little cattle mutilation film 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:51.040 by Alan Rudolph. It's only a very small Zalman King, 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:55.040 Zaman King performance, very small part. But he was a 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:56.199 producer on that picture. 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.199 That's not the one we watched, No, the one we 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:00.160 watched that had. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.399 We watched The Return, The Return, Oh yeah, that was 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:09.600 The Return Leans into the other Worldly causes of cattle mutilation, 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.320 whereas I don't want to spoil anything, but I just 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.560