1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: All Right podcast pioneer paranormal podcast pioneer Jim Harold is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: with us the paranormal podcast in Jim Harold's Campfire Twenty 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: years later and sixty five million downloads later, and he 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: is out now with the sixth volume of true ghost Stories, 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: Jim Harold's Campfire again, Volume six. These are perennial best sellers. 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: Who is the mysterious missus Raspberry? 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, I love telling people about her? This is 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: one of my favorite stories in this book. Jennifer from 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: Idaho told the story, and she took us back to 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: the early nineteen eighties. Now, she was a young girl, 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: probably eight or nine years old, and her and her 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 2: friend Connie loved to go on adventures. So this particular day, 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: and this was back in the day before cell phones 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: where kids kind of said goodbye to mom and then 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: said hello again at dinner time. So her and her 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: friend Connie decided to walk down some decommissioned railroad tracks 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: about a block from their house, and they were going 18 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: to go all the way down to the local lake 19 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 2: about four miles away. And there was one track, Richard, 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: very important to remember, one track in and one track out, 21 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: no other roots. So anyway, they started walking and bout 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: a mile from her house, Jennifer's house, there was this 23 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: densely forested area, but then it went into a clearing. 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: And in this clearing there were a couple of houses there, 25 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: and there was a big raspberry thicket by one of 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: these houses, and there was a lady there hanging her 27 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: laundry up on the line. She was a little bit 28 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: older lady, and back in the day, older ladies sometimes 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: wore house dresses, and this woman was wearing a house 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: dress and she was putting up her laundry and the 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: girl stopped and talked to her, and she was very, 32 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 2: very nice, this lady, and she offered the children some raspberries. 33 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: Would you like to have some raspberries? So the girls 34 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: went to the raspberry bush and picked them, and they 35 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: kind of held out their shirts and used them as 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: a basket. And Jennifer remembers this because they got stains 37 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: on the shirts, and you know, their mom probably their 38 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: moms probably wouldn't be too happy about that. But anyway, 39 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: so they talked to the lady a little more, enjoyed 40 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: their raspberries, and they went about their way. They went 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: to the lake. They had a fun day. And then 42 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 2: they walked back on his track, one way out, one 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: way in, and they got to the place where this 44 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: house should have been, and where these raspberry bushes should 45 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: have been, and where the lady with the laundry should 46 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: have been. But there was nothing there, nothing whatsoever. So anyway, Jennifer, 47 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 2: being an inquisitive little girl, she goes home and she 48 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: tells her family what happened. Her grandma's there, and she asked, Grandma, 49 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: you know, I went to this place, you know, about 50 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: a mile away and there was field and clearing and 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: there were these houses and this lady and told her 52 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: what happened. She said, are there houses there? Did we 53 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: miss them? She said, yeah, there were houses there. There 54 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: were houses there back in the nineteen twenties before the 55 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: railroad came in. Wow. So now the thing that was 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: really cool about this, Richard, A thing I love about 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: this is Jennifer before she came on Campfire, the Campfire podcast, 58 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: she wanted to make sure that she got this right. 59 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: So she stayed in touch with her friend Connie over 60 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: the years, and she called her up and she said, Connie, 61 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: am I imagining this? Is this something I saw on TV? 62 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: Am I getting this right, and Connie said, you're getting 63 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: it absolutely right. Everything you said happened really happened. And 64 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: in this case, Richard, this is one of those classic cases. 65 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: I think there are two explanations. One explanation, which I 66 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: do not believe. I do not believe, is that Jennifer 67 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: was making it up. 68 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: And then second sounds credible. She's got corroborating evidence, she's 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: got corroborating witness, rather a corroborating witness exactly. 70 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: So the second explanation is she experienced something. We might 71 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: call it paranormal, we might call it supernatural, we might 72 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 2: call it the science of the twenty fourth century. But 73 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: she experienced something that was real. And really think about it, Richard, 74 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: what did she have to gain by calling into my 75 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: show and sharing this story. 76 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: Nothing exactly exactly. 77 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: So I love those kind of stories, and they kind 78 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: of fall in between the cracks. They're not just they're 79 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 2: not ghost stories, but they are ghost stories. I love 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 2: those kind of stories me too. 81 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: It sounds like maybe a time slip. 82 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: What do you think, Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of 83 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: or what I think that was. This was actually, although 84 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: there have been others, this was the one I was 85 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: referring to when we're first talking. Is that you know, 86 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: that's not a traditional I mean some people might call 87 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: it a ghost, but it's not a traditional ghost. You 88 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: had the houses appear, You've had you know, an interaction. 89 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: You know, you're talking to the person back and forth. 90 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: It wasn't this kind of quick flash. And they were 91 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: in another environment. They were in I call her Missus Raspberry. 92 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 2: They were in Missus Raspberry's environment. They had in essence, 93 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: kind of time travel. It sounds like to me. 94 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: I remember, very very early on in my broadcast career 95 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: and I was doing a late night calling show and 96 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: a woman she might have been in her seventies, and 97 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: she told me a story about traveling to England and 98 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: with a friend and they were touring around. They'd never 99 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: been to England before, and I'm not sure whether they 100 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: were I think in New Yorkshire school or something like this. 101 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: And they they arrived late and they found well, now 102 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: we would call them an airbnb, I guess bed and breakfast. 103 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: They found a bed and breakfast and they stayed with 104 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: this elderly couple in this beautiful old house. I think 105 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: she described it as kind of a tutor style old 106 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: home and they stayed there and had dinner, and they 107 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: slept there overnight, and they got up in the morning 108 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: and they had breakfast, and then off they went on 109 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: with their day. And then they intended to come back 110 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: to stay an extra night. They came back and no house. 111 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: I mean they had they were sure they had their 112 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: great location. There was no house in that neighborhood. And 113 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, no sign of these elderly people that had 114 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: been so welcoming, same type of thing. I mean, you 115 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: hear this, people experience this. There's something new it. 116 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: Yes, there is. There's one other one if I have 117 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: time to tell real quick. This one's not in this book, 118 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: but will be in a future one. Basically, this woman 119 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: and probably again in the eighties, got stuck on the road. 120 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: She was attending college classes about hour from her home. 121 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: It was up in New England, so very cold, winter dark, 122 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: so she wasn't going to just sit in her car 123 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: and free. She started to walk down from the freeway 124 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: and she saw over the embankment. Down below the parallel 125 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: kind of two lane road or whatever, there was a 126 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: service station, a gas station, a garage. She said, oh, 127 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: I'm saved. I can get them to come help. The car, 128 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: so she goes in. At first, the guy's like, hey, 129 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: it's almost closing time, but except maybe the owner can 130 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: help you. And then all of a sudden, the owner, 131 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: older man, just kind of appeared from nowhere. Guy was 132 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: super nice, went up to her car, said I can't 133 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: fix it now, but I can tow it someplace. He 134 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: tows the car all the way, like twenty miles away 135 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 2: for her. He barely wants to take payment as she does, 136 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: but he does, but he's not like even clamoring for it. 137 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: Charged her a very low price and kind of saved 138 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: her because you know, no cell phones, right, and it's 139 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: cold and it's dark and you know. So Anyway, the 140 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: next couple days later, she's traveling to town with her 141 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: family and she said, oh, let's pass by here. I 142 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: want you to see this place. This was the nicest 143 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 2: man ever. He helped me. He towed my car all 144 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: these great things. They go past the station Richard and 145 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 2: it looks like it's been deserted for ten years. I mean, 146 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: it has that look of something that's been abandoned for 147 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: ten years. And she's like, I was just here the 148 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: other day and I talked to the guy and he 149 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: helped me. And this place was definitely occupied. It was there, 150 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 2: but it was completely abandoned, like it hadn't been used 151 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 2: for at least ten years. And again, same scenario. No 152 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: reason to make things up. And I believe this happens. 153 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: Is it a glitch in the matrix? As they say? Maybe, 154 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: I don't know, but there it is. 155 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Is that an example of what you call a crisis apparition? 156 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: No, no, no, you know, this is a really interesting one. 157 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: We haven't gotten a lot of stories about this, but 158 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: this was a fascinating one. This came to us from 159 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: a caller in Colorado. And no, excuse me, this came 160 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: to us. It involved Colorado, I should say, and it is. 161 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: Her name is Christine. I'm just double checking. Yeah, Christine 162 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: from Colorado actually, And she was at home and her 163 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: father was a mountain climber. He liked to go out 164 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: and climb mountains. So basically he was on a climb 165 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: and she was in her bedroom, I guess hundreds of 166 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 2: miles away. And her father at this particular time was 167 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: on a very strenuous climb and this particular night, while 168 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: he was up in the mountains having a very kind 169 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: of tough go of it. Christina woke in her bedroom 170 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: and she was utterly astonished because she saw her father 171 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: standing in her bedroom, and she knew he was hundreds 172 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: of miles away. I don't know that she knew he 173 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 2: was particularly on the climate at this time, but she knew, 174 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: you know, my dad's not here, but yet he's here 175 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: in my bedroom. And her father tells her in the bedroom, 176 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: says I love you, and he looked just as clear 177 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 2: as if he had just walked in the room and 178 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: said this to her. Then he disappeared. Now she pondered it, 179 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: and she was exhausted, so she went back to sleep. 180 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: So okay, her father tells her that he loves her 181 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 2: out of nowhere, you know, and he's not there. He's 182 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: hundreds of miles away. That particular night, when he was 183 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: descending the mountain peak at the same time this happened, 184 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 2: he had a very similar experience, but from his perspective, 185 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 2: and he explained that he had descended the mountain peak 186 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: and his canteen was almost empty. He had stopped eating 187 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 2: to minimize the need for water. Is a very hot 188 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: day but a very cold night, and at this point 189 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 2: he was feeling ill because he was in the initial 190 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: stages of dehydration. He looked for water and found a 191 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: mountain dream full of icy cold water, and he drank 192 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: a lot of it, but this made him colder, and 193 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: he had carried no sleeping bag or tent with him 194 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: to lighten the load. All he had was a little 195 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: plastic sheet that he could sleep in. He started experiencing 196 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: symptoms of hypothermia, and he hadn't consumed any food, He 197 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: wasn't generating any body heating. He was extremely fatigued, his 198 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: temperature was dropping, and he believed in retrospect he was 199 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 2: in danger of dying. So anyway, this particular time, he 200 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: woke up, he's sleeping, he's trying to rest. He wakes 201 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: up and he feels like he's in his daughter's bedroom, 202 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: Christine's bedroom, looking down upon her. She was sleeping, and 203 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: he remembers in this quote dream telling her that he 204 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: loved her. And then he woke up and was on 205 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: the ground in the forest, and he just thought it 206 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: was an extremely vivid dream. In the morning, he was 207 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: able to recoup his strength and he was able to 208 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 2: scale down the mountain, and he did make it. Luckily. 209 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: It sounds like it could have gone ever either way, 210 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: and I just think it's really fascinating. She had the 211 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: experience of him appearing in the bedroom, and then he 212 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 2: had the experience of quote dreaming about it. And it 213 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: actually reminds me something I think you've done shows on 214 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 2: this specifically, Richard, the third man syndrome. Oh yeah, yeah, 215 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 2: people are in danger they see another person and it's 216 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 2: not exactly the same thing. But I thought about the 217 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: parallels of climbing a mountain and so forth that you 218 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 2: hear with that phenomena. But the thing is is that 219 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: we hear this like doctor Raymond Moody, who I know 220 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: you've talked to I've gotten a chance to talk to 221 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: a few times. He talks about the time of death. 222 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: There's co location, right, somebody can show up to multiple 223 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 2: people across the country, right across the continent, you know, 224 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: regardless of where they're at, there's this co location. And 225 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: I wonder if this gentleman was close to death, it 226 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: could have gone either way, and he experienced this co location. 227 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: And I don't know what you call that. Is that 228 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: a ghost? Is that? I guess it's a crisis apparation. 229 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: Right, crisis apparition. I think Moody coined the term share 230 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: death experience. Oh yeah. And then there's as you say, 231 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: that third man syndrome, that weird phenomenon where extreme mountain 232 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: climbers will experience this presence that has helped them during 233 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, challenging times. I think even Ernest Ernest Shackleton, 234 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: who was you know, explored the Antarctic, talked about many 235 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: times when they were you know, near death. This there 236 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: were three I think in this expedition, and they all 237 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: reported the presence of a fourth person in the crew 238 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: that wasn't there, helping them, you know, to to survive 239 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: and get through everything.