WEBVTT - Jeet Heer, Will Rollins & Michael Waldman

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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<v Speaker 1>where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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<v Speaker 1>today's best minds and a House ethics panel that's investigating

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<v Speaker 1>claims of sex and drugs involving Matt Gates are eyeing

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<v Speaker 1>new allegations. We have such a great show for you today.

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<v Speaker 1>Will Rollin stops by to talk to us about his

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<v Speaker 1>run in California's Palm Springs area, where my dad lives,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's going to beat Ken Calvert or we hope.

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<v Speaker 1>So then we'll talk to the Breton Centers Michael Waldman

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<v Speaker 1>about the continued corruption of our Supreme Court. But first

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<v Speaker 1>we have the host of the time of Monsters, the

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<v Speaker 1>Nation's get here. Welcome back, too, Fast Politics, your friend

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<v Speaker 1>and mine, geet here.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to be back.

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<v Speaker 1>We're so happy to have you. We're in this strange

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<v Speaker 1>moment in American life where every thing feels just completely

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<v Speaker 1>crazy and strange. One of the things that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of anxiety about for people like me who like

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<v Speaker 1>American democracy and realize that only one party still believes

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<v Speaker 1>in it is that Biden is having trouble keeping the left.

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<v Speaker 1>As you and I both know, there was a quote

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<v Speaker 1>which said in fact that it's very hard to win

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<v Speaker 1>as a Democrat if you don't have the left. And

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty, the left and the middle really did

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<v Speaker 1>make a sort of peace and we're able to really

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<v Speaker 1>run together and defeat Trump and trump Ism. How can

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Biden win back the left or can he?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think he can actually. I mean this might

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<v Speaker 2>surprise people, but when heard before Gaza from people on

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<v Speaker 2>the left was, you know, like Joe Biden was not

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<v Speaker 2>my pick. He wasn't my guy, and there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>more he could be doing. But he's actually turned out

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<v Speaker 2>to be, you know, the most progressive American politician on

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<v Speaker 2>domestic issues since at least in the Johnson I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's right, and I think that there was a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of good wells and which is still can be tapped,

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<v Speaker 2>especially on like the labor front.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, he's been amazing on labor. You've never seen an

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<v Speaker 1>American president like that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, But also continued action on the student debt front,

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<v Speaker 2>the prescription drugs. I mean, I think that he does

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<v Speaker 2>actually have stuff to run on, and I think the

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<v Speaker 2>problem is foreign policy has kind of blindsided him in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that I mean Leaving aside the issue of

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<v Speaker 2>where one stands on this, the fact is that if

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<v Speaker 2>that's the foreign policy is what's being talked about, the

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<v Speaker 2>other things aren't talked about. So the more time that

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<v Speaker 2>like foreign policy takes up the headlines, the less there

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<v Speaker 2>is for everything. And I would add, like climate, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>like which is becoming like you know, we're seeing what

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<v Speaker 2>the heat waves, just like you know, like a crucial,

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<v Speaker 2>crucial issue. That's one where there's an immense difference between

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<v Speaker 2>Biden and Trump. Not just like you know, like one

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<v Speaker 2>supports X, one supports why, but Trump's policies are actually

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<v Speaker 2>like climate change bring it on. Because if you just say,

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<v Speaker 2>as Trump does you know climate change is a hoax

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<v Speaker 2>made by China, and also that we should be getting

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we should have the oil, it's a as

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<v Speaker 2>Trump is opposed to actual or climate change, I would

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<v Speaker 2>say is actual poses are to make climate change much

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<v Speaker 2>worse than it's otherwise going to be under like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like there's so much Biden could run on whether he

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<v Speaker 2>can like get the message across, I'm not so sure.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the question people then have to ask themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the problem the message or is it the messenger,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think the White House that's were reported is

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<v Speaker 2>very frustrated that the you know, like economic stuff that

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<v Speaker 2>they've done, the genuinely good economic news, you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>the sustained job growth that we've seen, you know, is

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<v Speaker 2>really without precedent.

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<v Speaker 1>The economy is ten times better than any one thought

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<v Speaker 1>it would be.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, That's right, yeah, yeah, and much better than

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<v Speaker 2>other nations that you know, like every nation suffered through

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<v Speaker 2>COVID and has you know, been struggling with you know,

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<v Speaker 2>supply chain issues which led to inflation. America is doing okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The question in though, is like can Biden get the

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<v Speaker 2>message across? Yeah, transmit that message. The next thing that

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<v Speaker 2>comes up to me is it shouldn't just be on Biden.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really a supporter of what I call it sort

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<v Speaker 2>of teammate strategy, which is that you really bring out early,

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<v Speaker 2>like all the surrogates that you usually keep out for

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to the last few weeks, get out Elizabeth Warren,

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<v Speaker 2>Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama, and just put like all the

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<v Speaker 2>people out there who can reach the audience that needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be reached. I think that that would give you

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of leverage that could actually change things on

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<v Speaker 2>some dimensions.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things that I'm hoping we could talk

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<v Speaker 1>about for a minute, because I think it is really

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<v Speaker 1>a strange phenomenon, is it seems to me that Biden

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<v Speaker 1>is able to push this economic populism without making people

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<v Speaker 1>freaked out the way that Elizabeth Warren freaks people out.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's true? And why is that?

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<v Speaker 2>One obediate answer is sort of like sexism. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>a very sort of subtle kind of sexism where like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like do you want the woman to

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<v Speaker 2>be the boss? You know, like the one's actually making

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<v Speaker 2>effective changes. The other one is like Biden kind of

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<v Speaker 2>did run on this idea that you know, like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not going to be the president who's in your face,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to be on Twitter all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>And he sort of kept that, And but the downside

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<v Speaker 2>of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Is nobody knows who he is.

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<v Speaker 2>He knows who he is. You know. A comparable thing

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<v Speaker 2>might be like the sort of Mexican situation where like Avlo,

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<v Speaker 2>you know a lot of people breat critics of him,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, he did push you a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, economic populism. Here's a pension and minimum wage

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<v Speaker 2>that really like improved a lot of people. But also

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<v Speaker 2>he was on TV every single day every day. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he was like, you know, like Trump during the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 2>but like through the whole presidency, Avlo was like talking

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<v Speaker 2>about the stuff he his cover was doing poor people,

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<v Speaker 2>and that became like kind of regular TV watching. I

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<v Speaker 2>think for a variety of reasons, like Biden, his instincts

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<v Speaker 2>were not to kind of take all the credit that

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<v Speaker 2>he could have taken in some ways. You know, the

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<v Speaker 2>strategy was always like to work out these kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like bipartisan deals and get the Republicans that you can.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you're doing that, you don't want to like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, spike the football right in a partisan way

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<v Speaker 2>that could undermind future negotiations. And then so you're kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a little bit stuck in a trap. But

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I think that also politicians have pre existing

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<v Speaker 2>audiences and people who trust them, And right now where

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<v Speaker 2>Biden is suffering is the people who had supported Bernie

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<v Speaker 2>and Elizabeth Warren and also people who supported like Barack Obama.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he rented those voters and didn't own them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, he's never owned them. But I mean, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>to me, that's why I think this sort of teammate

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<v Speaker 2>strategy of just like bringing out all the big guns.

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<v Speaker 2>You see that, Al and I think both like Bernie

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<v Speaker 2>and Elizabeth Warner becoming much more vocal. You know, you're

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<v Speaker 2>going off with Biden. I'm not one of those people

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<v Speaker 2>that says, let's bring out the smokefield rooms, because I

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<v Speaker 2>gotta tell you there's no smoke field rooms. There's no

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<v Speaker 2>mechanism we're replacing.

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<v Speaker 1>Biden did smokefield rooms. Me and I know that he's

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<v Speaker 1>very smart, the person whose idea this was, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>such a stupid idea. Americans are so filled with anxiety about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some guy pulling the strings that the idea

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<v Speaker 1>that then you would have some guys pull the strings

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<v Speaker 1>on that is so insane.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, they would imediately have no legitimacy, would be

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<v Speaker 2>like usually unpopular with quart a backlash. It's just this,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like we're going with Biden.

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<v Speaker 1>And it would delight Trump by the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think the question is to make it

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<v Speaker 2>about party rather than just individuals. And this is the

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<v Speaker 2>big difference for twenty twenty. The Democratic Party is more

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<v Speaker 2>popular than Biden. And what sesus in poling with Like

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<v Speaker 2>this is like Ohio where like you know, like Biden

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<v Speaker 2>was ever gonna win Ohio, but he's actually deeper in

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<v Speaker 2>the whole that he was last time. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>shared Brown is actually looking pretty good in Ohio. And

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<v Speaker 2>then we see this like all across the country. We

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<v Speaker 2>see this some special elections where like even in like

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<v Speaker 2>very red places where there were guys like I still lose,

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<v Speaker 2>like they're losing by far less than they had been previously.

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<v Speaker 2>And so there is a sense in which the party

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<v Speaker 2>is in better shape than the president. And if that's

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<v Speaker 2>the case, then I think you run with the party.

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<v Speaker 2>You really highlight all the party leaders and have them

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<v Speaker 2>be the voice to you know, reach the audiences that

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<v Speaker 2>Biden can't reach, and to be able to speak to

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<v Speaker 2>people who trust them, like people who might trust Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 2>Warren but don't trust Biden. People might trust Bernie Sanders

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<v Speaker 2>but don't trust Biden. I think EOC is becoming much

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<v Speaker 2>more prominent, and I actually think that seems like that's

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<v Speaker 2>a party decision to like, you know, bar ground her

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<v Speaker 2>because she can reach those voters that Biden, I'm sorry

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<v Speaker 2>to say, like he needs those voters. I think Biden

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<v Speaker 2>is other doing other good stuff, Like I thought on

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<v Speaker 2>the immigration front, like you know, extending the City of

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<v Speaker 2>Dacap protections very popular and very necessary.

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<v Speaker 1>And the spouse stuff is good too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, so the Senate death stuff

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<v Speaker 2>continues to be good. Right now. It seems like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of this is like mess I'm okay with like

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<v Speaker 2>emphasizing Trump as a convicted fellow, and I actually supported that,

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<v Speaker 2>as you know, like that yeahs over independence. But there

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<v Speaker 2>is a kind of economic message that we made which

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think people have really addressed. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>this is where the public would be on side with Biden,

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<v Speaker 2>which is like, you know, if Trump gets in, his

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<v Speaker 2>tax cuts are up for renewal in twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 2>so what over the next president is working with Congress,

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<v Speaker 2>They're going to decide the fate of those tax cuts.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking about brillions of dollars here, like overwhelmingly skewed

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<v Speaker 2>towards rich people, and those tax cuts weren't popular with

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<v Speaker 2>the public. I think the idea of extending them even

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<v Speaker 2>further so that they you know, started putting things like

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<v Speaker 2>Medicare and social Security in Jeopardy that would be very unpopular,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I think, yeah, I think, you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>prescription drugs, you could hammer on that. You know, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of messaging stuff. I think on the inflation

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<v Speaker 2>side of it. The stuff that Elizabeth Warren keeps talking

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<v Speaker 2>about is emphasizing the corporate gouging, you know, like these

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<v Speaker 2>kind of profiteering that some company he took advantage of

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<v Speaker 2>as a result of the pandemic and as a result

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<v Speaker 2>of supply chain difficulties and the Biden White House, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like they've been going back and forth on this. They

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<v Speaker 2>did talk about it for a while, then they became silent.

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<v Speaker 2>They're talking about it again now, and I think that

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<v Speaker 2>all the polling shows this is very popular, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is actually a way of addressing the inflation issue in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that the Democrats can win and separate them

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<v Speaker 2>out from the Republicans. Because maybe Trump will like opportunistically

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<v Speaker 2>say heal also go after corporate gouging. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>you can play to his own record.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's no world in which Trump is going after

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<v Speaker 1>corporate gouging. That's like a complete joke.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, that's his mold model for any buddy. So

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the Biden White House. I think they have

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<v Speaker 2>a good issue there and I think they're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>it again now, But I don't know if like they

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<v Speaker 2>have the credibility that Elizabeth Warren os. So I honestly

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<v Speaker 2>think like, you know, like having Warren out there and saying,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like my good friend Joe Bidens is like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know with me on this, and then you know

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<v Speaker 2>the way House kind of agree with that. But I

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<v Speaker 2>mean like there's a lot of stuff like that that

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<v Speaker 2>they can really emphasize, you know, have her home, point

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<v Speaker 2>out the differences, I point out the way like not

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<v Speaker 2>just that Biden has done good stuff on the economy,

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<v Speaker 2>because a lot of people are still purtying. I mean,

0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.160
<v Speaker 2>the whole pandemic was very traumatizing, but actually say like

0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Biden's actually gonna fight for you on this front and

0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.760
<v Speaker 2>that these are the actual villains who are responsible for

0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the inflation to some degree, Like this sort of message

0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.200
<v Speaker 2>goes against Joe Biden's instincts, which are sort of conflicted verse,

0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.840
<v Speaker 2>which aren't in favor of like kind of you know,

0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.640
<v Speaker 2>making corporate American escapeboat. But if he can't do it,

0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:37.199
<v Speaker 2>I think there are other people in the party that

0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.280
<v Speaker 2>can make that message.

0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Right now, now, agreed, How does Biden break through this

0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.199
<v Speaker 1>sort of media bubble? You know, if you get your

0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.640
<v Speaker 1>news from newspapers, use Fort Biden, And if you get

0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:55.360
<v Speaker 1>your news from many other venues, you support Trump. So

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.920
<v Speaker 1>how does Biden break through that media bubble?

0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is like such a big problem that it's

0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.120
<v Speaker 2>somebody you kind of need a time machine because you know,

0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.360
<v Speaker 2>like if I were could go back ten years and

0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:12.199
<v Speaker 2>tell like, you know, Democratic billionaires to be investing in anything,

0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 2>it would be like, you know, all these kind of

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.880
<v Speaker 2>like fake websites for local news that the Republicans have

0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.760
<v Speaker 2>set up, Like if they could have done the same

0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.680
<v Speaker 2>thing now. But having said that, I mean they are

0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.520
<v Speaker 2>all that. Podcasting is one example. There are things that

0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of reach people that don't pay attention to newspapers,

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, like Obama went on like WTFF that Mark

0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.240
<v Speaker 2>bren podcasts and that sort of stuff, and went on

0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 2>sports podcasts. I think like if both Biden and the

0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Democrats that kind of had a media strategy that's focused

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.599
<v Speaker 2>on these kind of alternative venues, that might be it.

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.920
<v Speaker 2>And especially like non political stop like I think you

0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.800
<v Speaker 2>go on a sports show or an entertainment show. Then

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.520
<v Speaker 2>people who habitually tune out politics, you can possibly reach them.

0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.959
<v Speaker 2>But again I want to underscore, I think this has

0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 2>to be a Democratic party scene, not a I didn't

0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.080
<v Speaker 2>think do it in some ways. I mean, like the

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Obama people, you know, really use that strategy in twenty twelve,

0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 2>that even afterwards in terms of trying to push you

0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 2>some of Obama's agenda. So I mean I think that

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 2>they're the ones worth listening to on this.

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Get here,

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for joining us.

0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh always great to be out.

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Spring us here, and I bet you are trying to

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 1>look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 1>new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

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<v Speaker 1>and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Will Rollins is a candidate for Congress in the forty

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 1>first district of California. Welcome back to Fast Politics, hopefully

0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:59.880
<v Speaker 1>soon to be Congressman Will Roland.

0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:01.720
<v Speaker 3>Thanks Mollie, great to be back.

0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.199
<v Speaker 1>We have a lot of congress people on this podcast

0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.200
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of people running for Congress on this podcast.

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 1>But you are a member of my family because you represent,

0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 1>or you will hopefully represent, the district that my father

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 1>lives in.

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.840
<v Speaker 4>Yes, the Coachella Valley, hom Spring, Mom, Desert, Rancho, Mirage, Lakinta,

0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 4>Indian Wells. So we got some great cities to represent

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 4>in the House.

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Tell us who you represented by and explained to us

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:30.000
<v Speaker 1>what this looks like.

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so this is a brand new district in southern

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 4>California that was created in redistricting. And Ken Calvert, who's

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 4>my opponent, had represented a traditionally deep red part of

0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.480
<v Speaker 4>the Inland Empire, and in redistricting he lost very Republican

0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 4>cities Marietta, where my cousins still live, a northern Temecula,

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.680
<v Speaker 4>and he picked up the Coachella Valley, which is a

0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.880
<v Speaker 4>much more heavily Democratic area in registration. And so after

0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty two, the district went from a Trump plus

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 4>seven to a Democratic majority electorate in November of that year,

0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.200
<v Speaker 4>and it's kind of seesawed back and forth between rs

0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.520
<v Speaker 4>and d's with just a few thousand votes either direction

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 4>and about ninety thousand independents. So it's become one of

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 4>the most competitive house races in the country and a

0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 4>critical pickup opportunity for Democrats in twenty four.

0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 1>I want to point out that Ken Calver sucks, but

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.200
<v Speaker 1>tell us why. I'm known for my subtlety.

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 4>He's been in Congress since nineteen ninety two, so I

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 4>was eight years old when he was first elected, and

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 4>in that time his net worth has gone up by

0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.920
<v Speaker 4>twenty million dollars if you look at his financial disclosures,

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 4>and part of the way that he's made his money

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 4>has been through real estate and using earmarks to benefit

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 4>his own investments. And I'll just give one example of that,

0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 4>which interestingly, Fox News did a seven minute documentary talking

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 4>about his use of earmarks for personal gain. And he

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 4>buys up vacant parcel of land earmarks transportation projects nearby,

0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 4>turns around flips the property for enormous profit. So it's

0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.520
<v Speaker 4>a version of insider trading that basically involves real estate.

0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 4>And I've found that a lot of folks in the district,

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 4>you know, cross party lines, don't like their tax dollars

0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 4>being used to line the pockets of their own member

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.720
<v Speaker 4>of Congress. So that's been one of the many reasons

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 4>why I think we're going to flip the seat in

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:25.280
<v Speaker 4>the fall. But he's also had, you know, a horrible

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 4>record on democracy, on choice, on LGBTQ rights, and really

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 4>just delivering for working families. I mean the guy, you know,

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 4>those of us in blue states. He actually increased our

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 4>taxes with that twenty seventeen bill that made it harder

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.880
<v Speaker 4>for us to deduct state and local income taxes, made

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 4>it harder for us to deduct our mortgage interest at

0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 4>a time when the rates are at all time highs.

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 4>And so I've really tried to focus on what he's

0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.880
<v Speaker 4>done to hurt the pocket books of constituents, whether it's

0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, voting against capping the cost of insulin at

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 4>thirty five dollars a month, voting against capping the out

0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 4>of pocket prescription drug costs at twenty five hundred dollars

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 4>a year for senior, all of these really bread and

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.000
<v Speaker 4>butter issues that are driving a lot of voters in

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 4>the Inland Empire who are faced with rising costs and

0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 4>seeing their own member of Congress get twenty million bucks

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.000
<v Speaker 4>since he was first elected.

0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:13.680
<v Speaker 3>And I always ask.

0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 4>People when I'm in rooms, I'm like, how many people

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 4>here have seen their net worth go out by twenty

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.800
<v Speaker 4>million dollars since nineteen ninety two. You know, shockingly, no

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 4>hands go up in the room. And we've got a

0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 4>member of Congress who's really been using his position to

0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 4>enrich himself, which I think is one of the biggest

0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:29.600
<v Speaker 4>motivators for people in our district.

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm really shocked that he hasn't made more money. I

0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.879
<v Speaker 1>mean it's been a many years. I mean, you know,

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.919
<v Speaker 1>like if you're doing something that sketchy like anyway. But

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.160
<v Speaker 1>he's probably not that smart. So let's talk about how

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.880
<v Speaker 1>it's been. You've run before. This is the second time

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.440
<v Speaker 1>you've run. You came very close to the first time.

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:50.719
<v Speaker 1>Talk to us about that.

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I had a very different career before I

0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.320
<v Speaker 4>ran for Congress in twenty two. I worked in federal

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.400
<v Speaker 4>law enforcement. I was a federal prosecutor in Southern California,

0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.720
<v Speaker 4>and I especially in counter terrorism and counterintelligence, and I

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.520
<v Speaker 4>loved the job. Honestly didn't think that I would leave

0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 4>that job for a very long time. But after January sixth,

0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.679
<v Speaker 4>there were about two dozen people who flew back to

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.359
<v Speaker 4>Southern California after attacking the capital, and part of our

0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.239
<v Speaker 4>job was to help our colleagues in Washington, round these

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 4>spokes up, get them arraigned, help the FBI with search

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.679
<v Speaker 4>warrants after the capital attack, and get them back to

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.400
<v Speaker 4>DC where they could face trial. And while we were

0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.159
<v Speaker 4>doing that, Ken Calbert was voting to decertify the election,

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 4>voting against the Committee to investigate, and then final straw

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.240
<v Speaker 4>for me called for dropping charges against these people. And so,

0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean, the truth about the first time I ran

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 4>is that I was just pissed off. I felt like

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 4>it was righteous. It was a Trump plus seven seat.

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 4>Everybody told me it was unwinnable. I didn't really care.

0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.679
<v Speaker 4>Famous last words to my partner, I was like, I promise,

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:51.160
<v Speaker 4>I'll only do this once. Here we are now, because

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 4>I literally found out that I lost the election while

0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.720
<v Speaker 4>I was on the floor of the House of Representatives

0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.040
<v Speaker 4>a new member training in twenty twenty.

0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Two, because it was so close, right.

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 4>And they were still counting ballots, and we expected that

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.239
<v Speaker 4>the ballots would break our way because the registrar had

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 4>said that the remaining were mail in, but unfortunately for us,

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.720
<v Speaker 4>that included mail in ballots that people had completed at

0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.680
<v Speaker 4>home and then physically dropped off at a drop bot.

0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 4>And so it ended up swinging towards Republicans at the end.

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 4>But ultimately, at the end of the day, i'ming that

0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.240
<v Speaker 4>close with only six months after my primary and looking

0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 4>at some of the underlying data in this district, you know,

0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 4>figuring out that we ended up being the only challenger

0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 4>in the state of California to win. Independent voters had

0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.119
<v Speaker 4>a really good performance compared to the Biden number in

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.960
<v Speaker 4>this district. Neither Biden nor Trump broke fifty percent in

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.400
<v Speaker 4>this district, and we lost less than one percent off

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 4>Biden's vote share, which I think is a very good

0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.920
<v Speaker 4>sign when you have a low turnout conservative electorate in California,

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.480
<v Speaker 4>where we had almost an eight point gap between registered

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.360
<v Speaker 4>Republicans sixty one percent of whom voted in twenty two

0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 4>and only fifty three percent roughly of registered Democrats. And

0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.679
<v Speaker 4>so in a presidential year, when you can get that

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.879
<v Speaker 4>close in a midterm and you come back and do

0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.359
<v Speaker 4>it again, build up your name ID, you have a

0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.680
<v Speaker 4>much better shot. And I'm really excited this time because

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.439
<v Speaker 4>our name ID has been going up and even with

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.320
<v Speaker 4>just fifty to sixty percent name IDA in the district,

0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.879
<v Speaker 4>now we already have a one point lead in the

0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.280
<v Speaker 4>polls Calvert Scott, you know, eighty to ninety percent. Name

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.000
<v Speaker 4>idea which tells me we have room to grow even

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 4>from that narrow lead that we currently have.

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.199
<v Speaker 1>Sounds like what are you running on?

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.159
<v Speaker 4>Economic populism is a big part of this campaign and

0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.880
<v Speaker 4>anti corruption reform because of the unique nature of the matchup.

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.480
<v Speaker 4>I talk a lot about my experience working alongside Republicans

0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.840
<v Speaker 4>and Democrats in law enforcement. You know, my first job

0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.919
<v Speaker 4>out of college was for a Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger,

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 4>even though I've been a lifelong Democrat. And it's really

0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.960
<v Speaker 4>a theme of public service versus self enrichment And who

0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 4>do you want to be your voice in Washington, d C.

0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.439
<v Speaker 4>Do you want somebody who's going to enrich himself to

0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.359
<v Speaker 4>the team of twenty million since he got elected. Do

0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.200
<v Speaker 4>you want somebody who's been ranked one of the most

0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 4>corrupt members of Congress? Do you want somebody who's Republican

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.200
<v Speaker 4>colleagues tried to keep them off the Appropriations Committee because

0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.280
<v Speaker 4>they were worried about his ethics? I mean, or do

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.400
<v Speaker 4>you want somebody who's going to vote to ban all members.

0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:12.440
<v Speaker 3>Of Congress from trading stock?

0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.080
<v Speaker 4>Do you want somebody who's going to vote to impose

0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.439
<v Speaker 4>a lifetime lobbying by former members of Congress to vote

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 4>to overturn Citizens United so that we get dark money

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 4>and the power of special interests in corporations out of politics,

0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 4>because there's no way that you're going to pay less

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.639
<v Speaker 4>for your gas, your groceries, your rent if you have

0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.840
<v Speaker 4>a member of Congress who is only worried about his

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.280
<v Speaker 4>real estate portfolio. And I talk a lot about that

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 4>because people in the Iland Empire are seeing huge increases

0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 4>in their rents. I mean, studio apartments in Corona are

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.760
<v Speaker 4>going for two thousand bucks a month now, and our

0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.480
<v Speaker 4>member is one of the largest real estate owners in

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.880
<v Speaker 4>the district. And I think there's just this contrast between

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.200
<v Speaker 4>working families and you know, the support we've gotten from

0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 4>so many incredible labor unions who are really earning a

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.000
<v Speaker 4>living because of the power of collective bargaining. I mean,

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:06.320
<v Speaker 4>being able to earn six figures in a county where

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 4>the median income is seventy thousand dollars per household because

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.119
<v Speaker 4>some of these folks are going out and working on

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 4>the ninety one seventy one exchange in Corona, for example.

0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 1>Can you explain what that is.

0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so this was a project in the Inland Empire.

0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:23.640
<v Speaker 4>The ninety one and seventy one are notoriously congested freeways

0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.640
<v Speaker 4>in our district, and there's an exchange that is trying

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:29.679
<v Speaker 4>to kind of alleviate some of the traffic in that

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:35.240
<v Speaker 4>area that has been funded by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill.

0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:37.159
<v Speaker 4>At least part of the funding has come from that

0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 4>bipartisan legislation that Calvert voted against. And there's about three

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 4>hundred million in infrastructure funding overall coming to Riverside County

0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 4>over the objection of Ken Calvert.

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:50.760
<v Speaker 3>That was again an bill that he voted against.

0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.120
<v Speaker 4>And so it's pretty incredible to go to these job

0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.200
<v Speaker 4>training facilities that these unions have and I just went

0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 4>to the sheet metal Workers job training facility last week

0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:04.159
<v Speaker 4>and seeing the faces of these apprentices light up when

0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 4>they're talking about the careers and the path that they

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:07.400
<v Speaker 4>have ahead of them.

0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:09.119
<v Speaker 3>And you don't need a college degree for this.

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.800
<v Speaker 4>My grandfather was a welder, never even finished high school,

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.359
<v Speaker 4>ended up starting a small business that still operates to

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:17.800
<v Speaker 4>this day. And I think that kind of opportunity and

0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:21.120
<v Speaker 4>living the American dream and seeing the ability to earn

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.000
<v Speaker 4>a living and have a retirement is something that everybody

0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.399
<v Speaker 4>can relate to, no matter what party you belong to.

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.760
<v Speaker 4>You just have to have or of Congress who cares

0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:33.959
<v Speaker 4>about actually delivering that for Riverside County. And so that's

0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.560
<v Speaker 4>some of them. I think the most important things that

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:38.640
<v Speaker 4>we've been campaigning on in this district.

0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 1>I am very obsessed with the idea of stopping trading.

0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:48.640
<v Speaker 1>Members of Congress not trade stocks. There is some bipartisan

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 1>support to it. Do you think there's a world in

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.160
<v Speaker 1>which you could actually do that, you could actually get

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:55.800
<v Speaker 1>that done?

0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:58.960
<v Speaker 4>I do, And I think about the example of Abigail

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:02.280
<v Speaker 4>Spamberger and Matt Gates, who I think have co sponsored

0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 4>a bill to do this, And I think if you

0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 4>can see people like that, who are about as different

0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:11.359
<v Speaker 4>as they come, you know, unite on that kind of

0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.520
<v Speaker 4>a ban, it tells you how popular it is for

0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.439
<v Speaker 4>one thing across party line. And we've seen this in

0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 4>our districts. I mean ninety percent of people in both

0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.760
<v Speaker 4>parties ninety percent plus ninety percent of independence. And I

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:29.400
<v Speaker 4>actually think Democrats this cycle have an opportunity to champion

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 4>that kind of good government reform to channel the populist

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 4>rage that we've all seen directed at Congress with all

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:42.400
<v Speaker 4>time low approval ratings into productive change. I mean, Congress

0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 4>needs to show the American people that it cares about

0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:49.159
<v Speaker 4>policing itself, that it cares about turnover in that body,

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:51.160
<v Speaker 4>that it cares about passing the torch to a new

0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 4>generation too. I think a lot of people have seen,

0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:55.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, people like Calvert go for three decades, which

0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.160
<v Speaker 4>is a big part of the reason I've been talking

0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 4>about term limits this cycle that are also popular across

0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 4>you know, ninety percent of party lines, and I know

0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:05.480
<v Speaker 4>there's Look, there's good arguments on both sides of this issue.

0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:07.800
<v Speaker 4>At the end of the day, I think the public's

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.119
<v Speaker 4>confidence in the institution needs to be restored with a

0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:14.719
<v Speaker 4>massive change, and I think that we as Democrats are

0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:17.280
<v Speaker 4>in a unique position to campaign on that kind of

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:22.879
<v Speaker 4>populist for reform because unfortunately, right now the other side

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:26.400
<v Speaker 4>will never never support any of these kinds of good

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.520
<v Speaker 4>government reforms, But the public are craving it, and so

0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.040
<v Speaker 4>I think that's why it's been successful for us.

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.120
<v Speaker 1>Certainly true, when you talk to people in your district,

0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:39.840
<v Speaker 1>what do they tell you? What are there besides the

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 1>real estate being expensive, which again partially the FED is

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 1>to blame for people not being able to buy houses,

0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:49.920
<v Speaker 1>but also California is notoriously expensive for the estate wise.

0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:53.800
<v Speaker 1>What else do you see that you're listening to people

0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.400
<v Speaker 1>say that you think could help the Biden administration, could

0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 1>help the Biden campaign, or could help Democrats win Just in.

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:03.840
<v Speaker 4>General, I think we need to lean in on the

0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:06.679
<v Speaker 4>issues where Republicans think that they have the high ground,

0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:09.479
<v Speaker 4>you know, and that includes things like immigration and crime.

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 4>And so when people talk to me about they say

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 4>that they're worried about the border, or they're worried about

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:18.399
<v Speaker 4>prime in California. I talk a lot about my bio

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 4>and I make sure that people know the contrast between

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:23.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, somebody who worked in federal law enforcement and

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.760
<v Speaker 4>prosecuted members of m S thirteen, the Cinelo Cartel, Fedanyl traffickers,

0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 4>and Calvert, who has said that the FBI has been

0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:35.400
<v Speaker 4>infiltrated by rot who has voted defund federal law enforcement.

0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:36.240
<v Speaker 3>I mean that was one.

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.960
<v Speaker 4>Of the votes, the last votes when McCarthy was Speaker,

0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:42.440
<v Speaker 4>that Continuing Resolution, you know, voted to cut funding from

0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:45.919
<v Speaker 4>border patrol. And you know, the guys got signs all

0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:49.400
<v Speaker 4>over our district that say secure the border, and I say,

0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:52.399
<v Speaker 4>the guys had thirty two years to secure the border

0:26:52.440 --> 0:26:55.240
<v Speaker 4>and he hasn't gotten it done. And his allies just

0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:58.880
<v Speaker 4>killed the toughest bipartisan border security bill in a generation

0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:02.080
<v Speaker 4>because they just want to use it as a campaign issue.

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:04.760
<v Speaker 4>And we have to keep repeating that message and talk

0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 4>about what we want to do to secure the border.

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:11.000
<v Speaker 4>You know, modern technology, drones, thermal imaging, more boots on

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.560
<v Speaker 4>the ground. And by the way, the Border Patrol Union

0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:17.560
<v Speaker 4>supported that bill that Calvert refused to support, and so

0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:19.800
<v Speaker 4>I think we as Democrats have to lean in on

0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 4>that issue and know how hypocritical and cynical some of

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.520
<v Speaker 4>these members of Congress are in the GOP caucus and

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:28.720
<v Speaker 4>certainly at the top of the ticket, the same is

0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:32.200
<v Speaker 4>absolutely true because Trump told Congress to kill the bill

0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:34.119
<v Speaker 4>so that he could use it as a campaign issue.

0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:36.800
<v Speaker 4>And I think that all of us as Democrats, collectively,

0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 4>from the top of the ticket on down, cannot surrender.

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:44.960
<v Speaker 4>On immigration, crime, economy, these are the issues where Republicans think, oh,

0:27:45.280 --> 0:27:47.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, we're just inherently trusted to deal with this,

0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:49.600
<v Speaker 4>and they're horrible on each one.

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 3>Of those issues, and we have there.

0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:55.160
<v Speaker 4>We really just have to keep hammering our own messaging

0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.439
<v Speaker 4>on it. We want a secure border, We want to

0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:00.880
<v Speaker 4>bring folks here who can help with the labor shortage

0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:02.879
<v Speaker 4>but are here legally, right. We want to provide a

0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:06.080
<v Speaker 4>path to citizenship for DOCA recipients, but all of that

0:28:06.359 --> 0:28:08.720
<v Speaker 4>needs to be couched in the framing of border security.

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:11.440
<v Speaker 4>And also talking about Brian, I mean, these guys are

0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:17.440
<v Speaker 4>now campaigning proudly for a convicted felon, but setting aside Trump, right,

0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:20.199
<v Speaker 4>I mean, just think about their criminal justice policies and

0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:22.560
<v Speaker 4>how unsafe they make all of us. I mean, I

0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:26.440
<v Speaker 4>give the example of gun violence. After 'v allde Calvert

0:28:26.520 --> 0:28:30.880
<v Speaker 4>votes against background checks for weapons. We've had two Riverside

0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.840
<v Speaker 4>County sheriff's deputies killed in the past few years by

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:37.040
<v Speaker 4>felons who never should have gotten their hands on firearms.

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 4>So these guys have no idea how to keep you

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:42.840
<v Speaker 4>or your kids safe at school, and we as Democrats

0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:45.200
<v Speaker 4>have to be talking about public safety more and what

0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:47.280
<v Speaker 4>we want to do to get guns out of the

0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 4>hands of people who are a threat to our community.

0:28:49.880 --> 0:28:52.840
<v Speaker 4>With a basic federal red flag law, for example, that

0:28:52.960 --> 0:28:55.120
<v Speaker 4>just says, if you threaten to shoot up a school

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 4>with an AR fifteen, the cops can go with a

0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 4>court order and take away AR fifth team before you

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 4>commit the mass shooting. I mean, even NRA members in

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 4>my district I've talked to have said, yeah, that makes

0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:07.960
<v Speaker 4>sense to me. And if you're if you're getting some

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:11.360
<v Speaker 4>agreement from even the line members regular you know, members

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:14.080
<v Speaker 4>of the NRA in Riverside County, it tells you how

0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:17.720
<v Speaker 4>out of step Ken Calvert is with the general public.

0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:19.600
<v Speaker 4>And why, you know, we got to own these issues

0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:21.400
<v Speaker 4>where ninety percent of the public is with us and

0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:23.200
<v Speaker 4>we just have to keep talking about them to make

0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 4>sure our messaging sinks in.

0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:30.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much, Will Rollins. I wish

0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>you all the best. Michael Waldman is President and CEO

0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 1>of the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law.

0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Fast Politics, Michael, Thank you for having me.

0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:51.760
<v Speaker 1>So it's Supreme Court season. Do you live and breathe

0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 1>the court and the law. But I, as a hobbyist,

0:29:55.840 --> 0:29:58.400
<v Speaker 1>get a big break from how they're fucking up our

0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:02.120
<v Speaker 1>country and then in and I am reminded of what

0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:04.880
<v Speaker 1>lunatics they are don't we still have like twenty seven

0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 1>cases to go.

0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:08.480
<v Speaker 5>One of the lessons here is this sort of like

0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:11.600
<v Speaker 5>school teacher lesson, don't save your work for the last minute.

0:30:11.640 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 5>It suggests that there's still a lot of brawling going

0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:16.240
<v Speaker 5>on behind the scenes.

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh does it say more about that.

0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 5>The cases they have taken are extraordinarily controversial, extraordinarily political.

0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:27.240
<v Speaker 5>One assumes that at least on some of them, the dissenters,

0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:29.840
<v Speaker 5>you know, most often that's going to be Sodo Mayor

0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:33.320
<v Speaker 5>and Kagan and Jackson are trying to get their licks in,

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 5>so we'll see. But this idea that we sit around

0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:41.200
<v Speaker 5>every June waiting for these government officials, because that's what

0:30:41.240 --> 0:30:44.840
<v Speaker 5>they are. You know, they're not wizards, even though they

0:30:44.840 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 5>wear robes, they're not religious figures. They're just government officials

0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:51.560
<v Speaker 5>with a lifetime job. Waiting for them to tell us

0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:55.520
<v Speaker 5>what country we live in is not how other countries

0:30:55.560 --> 0:30:57.600
<v Speaker 5>do it. It's not also how our country has done

0:30:57.640 --> 0:30:59.920
<v Speaker 5>it for a lot of its time. And it's a

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:02.000
<v Speaker 5>it's kind of nutty in my view.

0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 1>It's completely nutty. And I'm hoping you could talk for

0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:11.080
<v Speaker 1>a minute about what I've been struck by. Is like

0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:15.640
<v Speaker 1>they said, Robert said, like, we're done with abortion after

0:31:15.680 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 1>they overturned Row right after Dobbs. And in fact what

0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:24.800
<v Speaker 1>happened was they now have two cases in the docket.

0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:29.800
<v Speaker 1>One is this methapristone abortion pill, which was kicked off

0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.920
<v Speaker 1>on standing. But the fact that the Fifth Circuit even

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 1>got excited by it, though the Fifth Circuit is very

0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:39.240
<v Speaker 1>right wing, was crazy, right, Like, that's not a victory

0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 1>for liberals that they weren't going to just take away

0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:46.080
<v Speaker 1>a drug because people in Texas wanted them to. And

0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 1>then this Imdala case. Can you talk about those sort

0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:51.440
<v Speaker 1>of implications of both of them.

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:55.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think the MEPhI prisone case is really significant.

0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:57.720
<v Speaker 5>It's not just the Fifth Circuit, which is the most

0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:01.480
<v Speaker 5>reactionary federal court in the whole country. This sort of

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:05.240
<v Speaker 5>root and toot in Texas federal appeals, right, that even

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 5>this Supreme Court these days seems to enjoy, you know,

0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:13.479
<v Speaker 5>swatting down. It's that there was this one judge in Amarillo, Texas,

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:17.240
<v Speaker 5>Judge Kasmeric who's a big anti abortion activist, right, who

0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:17.720
<v Speaker 5>used to.

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Be a real activist, right, I mean he was never

0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.000
<v Speaker 1>he was like a real anti choice activist.

0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 5>Well, his sister very helpfully told journalists that his mission

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 5>was to end abushed in the United States. But you know,

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 5>the rules in Texas and only in Texas, are that

0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.560
<v Speaker 5>you basically can pick your judge. And so people go

0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:38.600
<v Speaker 5>to Amarillo and they form a group in Amarillo to

0:32:38.680 --> 0:32:41.240
<v Speaker 5>bring a case. And this was the issue with standing

0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.440
<v Speaker 5>was not just that they basically took a right wing

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:45.520
<v Speaker 5>tweet and tried to get it made into a Supreme

0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.479
<v Speaker 5>Court ruling, but that they made up the plaintiff so

0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 5>they could go to this one courtroom in this one

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:54.000
<v Speaker 5>town in Texas to get this one judge to make

0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 5>this ruling that mephipristone, which is the way the majority

0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 5>of abortion care is done in this country, that the

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:03.800
<v Speaker 5>Food and Drug Administration had messed up the way it

0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:07.440
<v Speaker 5>did its approvals two decades ago. It was absolutely a

0:33:07.560 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 5>ridiculous argument. And among other things, the gazillion dollar pharmaceutical

0:33:11.920 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 5>industry was a guest.

0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Right, I mean that you could see how they might

0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:17.680
<v Speaker 1>have problems with it.

0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:21.920
<v Speaker 5>I was not surprised that the court ruled the way

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 5>they did, and it was nine to nothing. As you said,

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:28.160
<v Speaker 5>on standing, first of all, and this goes to the problem,

0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:30.280
<v Speaker 5>right now with the Supreme Court, I would have been

0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 5>absolutely astonished if they'd done anything other than rule to

0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 5>keep methipristone on the market. And the reason is if

0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:39.600
<v Speaker 5>they had ruled otherwise, Democrats would have won three hundred

0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:43.400
<v Speaker 5>House seats. And if you want a predictive lens right now,

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:46.080
<v Speaker 5>look at the Supreme Court on how it's making rulings.

0:33:46.480 --> 0:33:49.560
<v Speaker 5>Understanding what is in the electoral interests of the Republican

0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:52.440
<v Speaker 5>Party is probably the best way to make predictions. You

0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 5>would do pretty well on that. But they also winked

0:33:55.800 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 5>on this and said, there's this law from the nineteen hundred,

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.200
<v Speaker 5>the eighteen hundred, I mean the Comstock, which was this

0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 5>kind of banning smut in the males and contraception and.

0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:09.600
<v Speaker 1>The rifles to keep women from becoming lasidious.

0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:12.719
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and that they could use that meaning come back

0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:14.600
<v Speaker 5>to us after the election. It was a little bit

0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 5>of a hint.

0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:17.640
<v Speaker 1>And we heard it in the oral arguments too. I

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:21.279
<v Speaker 1>mean they both Alido and tom As mentioned Comstock, not

0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:22.680
<v Speaker 1>by name but by number.

0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:26.040
<v Speaker 5>And this idea that, oh, you know, we're just letting

0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:29.120
<v Speaker 5>the people decide, We're letting the states decide. They're kind

0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:31.359
<v Speaker 5>of noticing that every time the people get a chance

0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:35.799
<v Speaker 5>to decide this, they decide for reproductive freedom. So you know,

0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:39.120
<v Speaker 5>at least for a Thomas and Alito, they're letting their

0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 5>free flag fly here a bit. The truth is, there

0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:44.959
<v Speaker 5>was a settled consensus on abortion rights in the United

0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:48.000
<v Speaker 5>States for many years. It was not necessarily what the

0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:50.719
<v Speaker 5>most ardent pro choice activists wanted. It was certainly not

0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.160
<v Speaker 5>what the anti abortion activists wanted, but it was reflected

0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 5>in the case called Casey, which allowed for some restrictions

0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:02.640
<v Speaker 5>but basically broadly you know, reproductive rights and throwing it

0:35:02.920 --> 0:35:06.960
<v Speaker 5>open to the system has led to chaos, confusion, women

0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 5>being forced to flee their states, but also lots and

0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 5>lots more lawsuits and so you know. The other big

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:15.440
<v Speaker 5>case that they haven't ruled on yet has to do

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:20.400
<v Speaker 5>with whether emergency rooms have to provide stabilizing care to patients.

0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:23.960
<v Speaker 5>This is also one of these things where doctors already

0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:27.160
<v Speaker 5>have all kinds of conscience clauses and other things. This

0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:30.440
<v Speaker 5>one will also very possibly be decided not on the

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:33.120
<v Speaker 5>kind of guts of it, but on questions of whether

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:35.839
<v Speaker 5>federal law preempts or not. But they're going to just

0:35:35.920 --> 0:35:38.560
<v Speaker 5>having to hear more and more of these cases over time.

0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's such an interesting point because the broad strokes

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.279
<v Speaker 1>in which the Supreme Court is interested in remaking the

0:35:45.280 --> 0:35:49.200
<v Speaker 1>country are pretty profound and alarming. I want you to

0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:52.439
<v Speaker 1>sort of talk us through kind of where we are

0:35:52.719 --> 0:35:56.520
<v Speaker 1>and what could happen and what the sort of thinking

0:35:56.719 --> 0:35:59.000
<v Speaker 1>is to save American democracy.

0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:01.560
<v Speaker 5>I think that we're in period and this has happened

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 5>a few times before in the country's history, not all

0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 5>that often, but a few times before, where the Court

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:10.680
<v Speaker 5>has been captured by a faction of a faction. It

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 5>is now fully in the grip of the federalist society

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:19.200
<v Speaker 5>and of a very extreme conservative politically conservative set of views. Fully,

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 5>and you know, it is an institution with vast power,

0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.840
<v Speaker 5>and it turns out minimal accountability and thus really significant

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.520
<v Speaker 5>susceptibility to this kind of thing. My book is called

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:32.960
<v Speaker 5>the Supermajority because there's now six of these justices and

0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 5>they move more or less in lockstep. And in the

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:38.520
<v Speaker 5>first year that they had control, they overturned Roe v. Wade.

0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.279
<v Speaker 5>They put all these other privacy rights at risk. They

0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:45.359
<v Speaker 5>also issued the most extreme Second Amendment ruling by far

0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:48.440
<v Speaker 5>in the country's history, in a case called Bruin, which

0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 5>said that you can, in effect that you cannot consider

0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:56.600
<v Speaker 5>contemporary public safety concerns when deciding if a gun law

0:36:56.960 --> 0:37:00.480
<v Speaker 5>is okay under the Second Amendment only quote history tradition,

0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:03.680
<v Speaker 5>meaning what were the gun laws in seventeen ninety one.

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:08.560
<v Speaker 1>This opens the door to this insane textualism, which I

0:37:08.560 --> 0:37:10.400
<v Speaker 1>would love you to talk about, but keep going.

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Well.

0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:13.480
<v Speaker 5>And the third thing they did in that first three

0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:16.520
<v Speaker 5>days that they were ruling was begin an assault on

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:20.880
<v Speaker 5>the ability of the government to protect the environment, public safety,

0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:23.640
<v Speaker 5>public health, that kind of thing. And that is something

0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 5>that is if you want to say, well, what's continued.

0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.520
<v Speaker 5>You know, last year they overturned the use of race

0:37:29.600 --> 0:37:32.479
<v Speaker 5>and college admissions. One of the things they're doing now,

0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:35.719
<v Speaker 5>case after case after case, they're chipping away at the

0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:38.880
<v Speaker 5>ability of regulatory agencies of the government to protect public

0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 5>health and safety and fair markets, and that stuff is like,

0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:46.239
<v Speaker 5>you know, it's less vivid, it's more arcane. But a

0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:48.720
<v Speaker 5>lot of these earlier cases were for the I always

0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:52.239
<v Speaker 5>said was for the base. This is for the paying customers.

0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:54.879
<v Speaker 5>This is what a lot of businesses and a lot

0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 5>of right wing legal advocates have wanted, which is to

0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:01.680
<v Speaker 5>try to use for Thisupreme Court to try to use

0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 5>its power to curb the ability to act to protect

0:38:05.600 --> 0:38:07.759
<v Speaker 5>the public. And that's going to continue for a long,

0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:08.759
<v Speaker 5>long long time.

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 1>So that's like Koch brothers fantasy stuff.

0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.439
<v Speaker 5>It's what they pin on their dorm wall.

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:15.680
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:18.279
<v Speaker 5>The question is what can we do about it? The

0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:21.600
<v Speaker 5>Court is acting in this political way, and there is

0:38:21.640 --> 0:38:25.000
<v Speaker 5>a backlash. And in our country's history when the Supreme

0:38:25.040 --> 0:38:29.719
<v Speaker 5>Court has been extreme or partisan or unduly activist, there

0:38:29.800 --> 0:38:33.640
<v Speaker 5>is very often a very significant and very political backlash.

0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:35.520
<v Speaker 5>And this is not really a backlash that's going to

0:38:35.560 --> 0:38:39.880
<v Speaker 5>come in courtrooms or even in law review notes, but

0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 5>in the in the ballot box and on the streets.

0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.000
<v Speaker 5>And the issue of the Supreme Court has to become

0:38:46.320 --> 0:38:48.880
<v Speaker 5>and how to reform it and its corruption have to

0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.279
<v Speaker 5>become central political issues. And that's how we can gain

0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:53.320
<v Speaker 5>control of the situation.

0:38:53.440 --> 0:38:56.719
<v Speaker 1>I think, so talk to us about what that looks like.

0:38:56.880 --> 0:39:00.200
<v Speaker 1>First two two minutes on textualism, because I think I think

0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:03.640
<v Speaker 1>our listeners need to understand that the way that the

0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:08.400
<v Speaker 1>right is lying about these insane decisions they're making is

0:39:08.440 --> 0:39:12.799
<v Speaker 1>that they're saying that they come from the text of

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the Constitution. Can you say more about that?

0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And it's the text of the Constitution, and it's

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 5>the text of these laws too. So originalism is the

0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.080
<v Speaker 5>idea that the only legitimate way to interpret the Constitution

0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:27.400
<v Speaker 5>is to ask what it meant to the people who

0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:31.760
<v Speaker 5>ratified it, meaning most of the time property owning white

0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 5>men from the seventeen hundreds, that we should be governed

0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 5>today by their social values. Textualism is kind of like

0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 5>a cousin of originalism. It's the same notion in a way.

0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 5>And it's the idea that when you look at a

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:48.319
<v Speaker 5>provision of the Constitution, but especially of a law that

0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:51.600
<v Speaker 5>was passed by Congress, you don't ask, well, what's the

0:39:51.680 --> 0:39:54.760
<v Speaker 5>idea here, what's the idea behind this law? Have things changed?

0:39:54.800 --> 0:39:57.480
<v Speaker 5>How do we apply that idea? What did Congress mean

0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:00.440
<v Speaker 5>when it did this thing? Textualism the way they do

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:03.160
<v Speaker 5>it is look at the word on the page, like

0:40:03.360 --> 0:40:05.360
<v Speaker 5>cut it out with the scissors, and let's look at

0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:08.640
<v Speaker 5>the word and get a bunch of dictionaries. Literally, they

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:11.960
<v Speaker 5>sit around quoting dictionaries and saying, well, this is what

0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:14.440
<v Speaker 5>this word means. Well, no, this is what this word means.

0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:17.480
<v Speaker 5>As though, of course we all carry around dictionaries all day,

0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:20.040
<v Speaker 5>don't we. I mean, and certainly one of the things

0:40:20.080 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 5>I like to point is there had not been any

0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:26.360
<v Speaker 5>dictionaries at the time of the Constitutional Convention. Noah Webster

0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 5>didn't do the dictionary until several years later. So the

0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:32.360
<v Speaker 5>idea that everyone's sitting around with dictionaries. But so, this

0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:35.920
<v Speaker 5>bump stock gun case was not really a case about

0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:38.840
<v Speaker 5>the Second Amendment. It was a pro gun case. But

0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:41.160
<v Speaker 5>they didn't say, oh, the Second Amendment says you can't

0:40:41.160 --> 0:40:44.880
<v Speaker 5>do this. Remember, this was what after this demonic person

0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.440
<v Speaker 5>modified his semi automatic weapon to make it into a

0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:52.279
<v Speaker 5>machine gun basically, and killed fifty six people at a

0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:55.720
<v Speaker 5>music festival in Las Vegas and wounded I think hundreds

0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:58.719
<v Speaker 5>more out the window of his hotel room, and the

0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:02.520
<v Speaker 5>Trump administration, backed by believe it or not, the NRA,

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:05.560
<v Speaker 5>issued this ruling that said, oh, you know, that's like

0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.319
<v Speaker 5>a machine gun, and machine guns have been illegal since

0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:12.000
<v Speaker 5>the nineteen thirties. Congress passed the law responding to the threat.

0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:15.880
<v Speaker 5>This is true of Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger.

0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:18.680
<v Speaker 5>They've made machine guns illegal, but the text of the

0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:21.800
<v Speaker 5>law didn't say you must not use a bump stock

0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:24.719
<v Speaker 5>to turn your weapon into a machine gun.

0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Perhaps because they didn't have bump stocks back then.

0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:31.359
<v Speaker 5>Right, And it was obviously what Congress intended. They were

0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:33.600
<v Speaker 5>not saying, we, you know, we really want you have

0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:35.800
<v Speaker 5>a machine gun as long as you use the right dictionary.

0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:37.840
<v Speaker 5>But that's basically what the court said, and it was

0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:40.880
<v Speaker 5>yet another six to three ruling. It was just a

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 5>pro gun ruling, right. And a lot of the time,

0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:46.640
<v Speaker 5>now what Congress, what the Supreme Court is doing on

0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:51.360
<v Speaker 5>these cases involving again environmental and other kinds of regulation,

0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:55.360
<v Speaker 5>is they're taking the power away from the government agencies

0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 5>that sometimes have to act to protect the public without

0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:02.239
<v Speaker 5>waiting around for Congress to pass a new law. And

0:42:02.480 --> 0:42:05.840
<v Speaker 5>very often Congress has passed a law, and sometimes the

0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:07.799
<v Speaker 5>laws are kind of broad, and they expect them to

0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:11.000
<v Speaker 5>be implemented by the people who are the experts. And

0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:13.719
<v Speaker 5>that's kind of what Congress wants, that's what our democratic

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:17.480
<v Speaker 5>system wants. These right wing judges are saying, oh, no, no, no, no,

0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:21.120
<v Speaker 5>Congress must pass a law with great specifics about what

0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 5>it is they want to have happened, which of course

0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:26.080
<v Speaker 5>means much of the time that right wing judges get

0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:29.520
<v Speaker 5>to decide what agencies can and can't do. And are Congress,

0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:31.640
<v Speaker 5>who we love so much, you know, they're not like

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:34.120
<v Speaker 5>the most functional legislative body in the world. Right now,

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:36.399
<v Speaker 5>who's kidding who about what they're going to be able

0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:36.680
<v Speaker 5>to do?

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Right exactly? There are a lot more decisions. We're taping

0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:44.840
<v Speaker 1>this on Tuesday. It'll come out of Wednesday, on Thursday

0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:47.160
<v Speaker 1>and Friday. There are more decisions and more decisions and

0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:50.200
<v Speaker 1>more decisions. One of the things that this Supreme Court

0:42:50.280 --> 0:42:56.120
<v Speaker 1>has historically done is they have historically released the last

0:42:56.160 --> 0:43:01.319
<v Speaker 1>controversial decisions earlier and saved the really big decisions for

0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:04.239
<v Speaker 1>right when they go on vacation, so they don't have

0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:08.680
<v Speaker 1>to deal with protests. How unusual is that? And is

0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:11.319
<v Speaker 1>that what they're going to do with immunity? You don't

0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:13.880
<v Speaker 1>have to predict, but it sure seems likely.

0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:16.560
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't, so I think of it as like foaming

0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:20.280
<v Speaker 5>the runway. So they did this, that's mephropristone ruling first.

0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:23.920
<v Speaker 5>So the liberals will go, ah, they're really so fair minded,

0:43:24.120 --> 0:43:24.319
<v Speaker 5>you know.

0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:24.719
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:28.200
<v Speaker 5>Look, to my mind, there's some big rulings yet to come.

0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:31.399
<v Speaker 5>They may trim back their crazy doctrine on the Second

0:43:31.440 --> 0:43:33.040
<v Speaker 5>Amendment in a case called Rahimi.

0:43:33.320 --> 0:43:37.200
<v Speaker 1>The oral arguments during Rahimi sounded like they might not

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:40.399
<v Speaker 1>go crazy. But again, sometimes these guys in the oral

0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:42.640
<v Speaker 1>arguments sound saner than they actually are.

0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 5>Right, Yeah, Yogi Berra, the great baseball player said, never

0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:50.319
<v Speaker 5>make predictions, especially about the future. But I think we

0:43:50.640 --> 0:43:54.360
<v Speaker 5>can expect them to further curb the ability of government

0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:57.680
<v Speaker 5>agencies to protect the environment and other things by overturning

0:43:57.719 --> 0:43:59.280
<v Speaker 5>something called Chevron defference.

0:43:59.440 --> 0:44:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Talk about Chevron deference because it's so important what it means.

0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:06.680
<v Speaker 5>There's a long standing rule for decades, a practice that

0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:09.760
<v Speaker 5>said that if a law passed by Congress is unclear,

0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.680
<v Speaker 5>that the experts and the regulatory agencies can interpret it,

0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:16.080
<v Speaker 5>and judges will defer to the way the experts and

0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:19.080
<v Speaker 5>the agencies see what the language means, unless there's a

0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:22.360
<v Speaker 5>good reason not to. And this would say no, no, no.

0:44:22.640 --> 0:44:26.600
<v Speaker 5>Judges basically can make these decisions, and added to other

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.160
<v Speaker 5>things that the Supreme Court has done in recent years,

0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:33.239
<v Speaker 5>it would again really significantly undermine the ability to act

0:44:33.400 --> 0:44:36.960
<v Speaker 5>on everything from the next pandemic to climate change, to

0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:41.200
<v Speaker 5>health and safety regulation and others. To me, the biggest

0:44:41.200 --> 0:44:43.120
<v Speaker 5>thing the Supreme Court is going to be remembered for

0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:46.279
<v Speaker 5>this year. You know what historians will look back, if

0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:49.680
<v Speaker 5>there are historians, what they look back at this term

0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:53.680
<v Speaker 5>as being about is the Donald Trump immunity case. And

0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:56.719
<v Speaker 5>on that one, court has already done its damage in

0:44:56.800 --> 0:44:57.960
<v Speaker 5>my view right.

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Because they've been giving him time to differ so he wins.

0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:06.640
<v Speaker 5>Yes. In other words, it is a legally easy case. Yes,

0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:09.440
<v Speaker 5>Donald Trump is not immune from prosecutions for trying to

0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:12.920
<v Speaker 5>criminally overthrow the Constitution. Even if you think there is

0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:16.080
<v Speaker 5>a distinction between official and unofficial act, it's not an

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:19.239
<v Speaker 5>official act to try to overthrow the Constitution. Even if

0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:21.279
<v Speaker 5>you're sitting in the Oval office when you do it

0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:25.520
<v Speaker 5>and conspiring with other government employees to do it, that

0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 5>doesn't make it an official act. Jack Smith, the Special Prosecutor,

0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:33.160
<v Speaker 5>asked the Supreme Court to clear this up last year,

0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:36.719
<v Speaker 5>and instead they hammed the haud. They made sure the

0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:39.800
<v Speaker 5>lower courts took their sweet time, they heard the argument

0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:43.799
<v Speaker 5>in the last hour of the last day that they

0:45:43.880 --> 0:45:47.279
<v Speaker 5>heard arguments, and they made it clear they had all

0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:49.360
<v Speaker 5>kinds of profound thoughts they were going to want to

0:45:49.400 --> 0:45:52.640
<v Speaker 5>take their time to put on paper just as Gorsuch said,

0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:55.120
<v Speaker 5>we must rule for the ages and when they could

0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:58.319
<v Speaker 5>have ruled on the spot. We will likely hear some

0:45:58.640 --> 0:46:01.400
<v Speaker 5>kind of an opinion that says, no, presidents are not

0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:04.120
<v Speaker 5>immune from prosecution. Maybe in some instances they are, but

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:07.440
<v Speaker 5>presidents are not immune from prosecution. We will probably hear

0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:10.439
<v Speaker 5>a beautiful rhetoric about you know, nobody is a ko

0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:13.479
<v Speaker 5>president is a king, and nobody is above the law.

0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:17.880
<v Speaker 5>But meanwhile they've given him what he craves, which is time.

0:46:18.160 --> 0:46:21.759
<v Speaker 5>They've made sure that it is very very unlikely that

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.360
<v Speaker 5>the voters will know the information from the trial and

0:46:25.400 --> 0:46:28.560
<v Speaker 5>whether he's guilty in a court of law before the election,

0:46:28.800 --> 0:46:31.560
<v Speaker 5>and that was what he wanted. And people say, stop

0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:34.520
<v Speaker 5>the steal, you know, start the stall. The stall to

0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:38.120
<v Speaker 5>me is the most egregious political intervention by a Supreme

0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:40.040
<v Speaker 5>Court that I can even think of. I mean, much worse,

0:46:40.160 --> 0:46:43.319
<v Speaker 5>for example, to me than bush vik Or where there

0:46:43.520 --> 0:46:46.799
<v Speaker 5>was kind of like a tie election that year. This

0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:48.560
<v Speaker 5>is just bailing him out.

0:46:48.800 --> 0:46:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Michael, thank you. I hope you will come back.

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:53.840
<v Speaker 5>I hope I can come back. And we need to

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:56.400
<v Speaker 5>make sure that this is an election issue that people

0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:59.120
<v Speaker 5>talk about, term limits, that people talk about ethics that

0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:02.759
<v Speaker 5>the Democrats Joe Biden started to finally talk about. This

0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:06.800
<v Speaker 5>keeps at it, and not just in fundraisers, but on camera.

0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:14.000
<v Speaker 1>No moment full Jesse Cannon.

0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:17.560
<v Speaker 2>My Junk Fast. Those clips of Sinclair where they all

0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.839
<v Speaker 2>say the same thing, bashing Biden, it never stops. What

0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:21.560
<v Speaker 2>are you seeing here?

0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:28.319
<v Speaker 1>So Sinclair, which is an organization owned by a conservative millionaire,

0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:32.359
<v Speaker 1>perhaps billionaire he's hoping. Basically, they brought up all these

0:47:32.400 --> 0:47:36.680
<v Speaker 1>affiliate stations, local news. You watch your news, your weather,

0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:39.960
<v Speaker 1>and they sneak in a little bit of Fox, so

0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:43.920
<v Speaker 1>you think you're getting the weather, but really you're getting

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:48.520
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of Rupert Murdoch. And we saw last week.

0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:52.200
<v Speaker 1>You know they're pushing this message that Biden is somehow

0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:58.000
<v Speaker 1>infirmed quite successfully as a way to try pretty hard

0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:00.640
<v Speaker 1>to make Trump look better. But since Claire is going

0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:03.480
<v Speaker 1>to try. So if you watch sin Claire, or you

0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:07.440
<v Speaker 1>have a loved one who does, turn it off, that's

0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:11.320
<v Speaker 1>it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday,

0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics

0:48:14.520 --> 0:48:17.560
<v Speaker 1>makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what

0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:20.239
<v Speaker 1>you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep

0:48:20.280 --> 0:48:23.440
<v Speaker 1>the conversation going. And again thanks for listening.