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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and a House ethics panel that's investigating

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Speaker 1: claims of sex and drugs involving Matt Gates are eyeing

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Speaker 1: new allegations. We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Will Rollin stops by to talk to us about his

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Speaker 1: run in California's Palm Springs area, where my dad lives,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to beat Ken Calvert or we hope.

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Speaker 1: So then we'll talk to the Breton Centers Michael Waldman

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Speaker 1: about the continued corruption of our Supreme Court. But first

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Speaker 1: we have the host of the time of Monsters, the

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Speaker 1: Nation's get here. Welcome back, too, Fast Politics, your friend

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Speaker 1: and mine, geet here.

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Speaker 2: Good to be back.

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Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you. We're in this strange

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Speaker 1: moment in American life where every thing feels just completely

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Speaker 1: crazy and strange. One of the things that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of anxiety about for people like me who like

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Speaker 1: American democracy and realize that only one party still believes

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Speaker 1: in it is that Biden is having trouble keeping the left.

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Speaker 1: As you and I both know, there was a quote

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Speaker 1: which said in fact that it's very hard to win

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Speaker 1: as a Democrat if you don't have the left. And

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, the left and the middle really did

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Speaker 1: make a sort of peace and we're able to really

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Speaker 1: run together and defeat Trump and trump Ism. How can

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden win back the left or can he?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think he can actually. I mean this might

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Speaker 2: surprise people, but when heard before Gaza from people on

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Speaker 2: the left was, you know, like Joe Biden was not

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Speaker 2: my pick. He wasn't my guy, and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: more he could be doing. But he's actually turned out

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Speaker 2: to be, you know, the most progressive American politician on

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Speaker 2: domestic issues since at least in the Johnson I think

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Speaker 2: that's right, and I think that there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of good wells and which is still can be tapped,

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Speaker 2: especially on like the labor front.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he's been amazing on labor. You've never seen an

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Speaker 1: American president like that.

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Speaker 2: That's right, But also continued action on the student debt front,

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Speaker 2: the prescription drugs. I mean, I think that he does

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Speaker 2: actually have stuff to run on, and I think the

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Speaker 2: problem is foreign policy has kind of blindsided him in

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Speaker 2: a way that I mean Leaving aside the issue of

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Speaker 2: where one stands on this, the fact is that if

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Speaker 2: that's the foreign policy is what's being talked about, the

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Speaker 2: other things aren't talked about. So the more time that

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Speaker 2: like foreign policy takes up the headlines, the less there

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Speaker 2: is for everything. And I would add, like climate, I mean,

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Speaker 2: like which is becoming like you know, we're seeing what

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Speaker 2: the heat waves, just like you know, like a crucial,

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Speaker 2: crucial issue. That's one where there's an immense difference between

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Speaker 2: Biden and Trump. Not just like you know, like one

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Speaker 2: supports X, one supports why, but Trump's policies are actually

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Speaker 2: like climate change bring it on. Because if you just say,

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Speaker 2: as Trump does you know climate change is a hoax

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Speaker 2: made by China, and also that we should be getting

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Speaker 2: you know, we should have the oil, it's a as

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Speaker 2: Trump is opposed to actual or climate change, I would

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Speaker 2: say is actual poses are to make climate change much

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Speaker 2: worse than it's otherwise going to be under like you know,

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Speaker 2: like there's so much Biden could run on whether he

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Speaker 2: can like get the message across, I'm not so sure.

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Speaker 2: And I think the question people then have to ask themselves,

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Speaker 2: this is the problem the message or is it the messenger,

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Speaker 2: and I think the White House that's were reported is

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Speaker 2: very frustrated that the you know, like economic stuff that

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Speaker 2: they've done, the genuinely good economic news, you know, like

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Speaker 2: the sustained job growth that we've seen, you know, is

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Speaker 2: really without precedent.

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Speaker 1: The economy is ten times better than any one thought

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Speaker 1: it would be.

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Speaker 2: That's right, That's right, yeah, yeah, and much better than

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Speaker 2: other nations that you know, like every nation suffered through

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Speaker 2: COVID and has you know, been struggling with you know,

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Speaker 2: supply chain issues which led to inflation. America is doing okay.

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Speaker 2: The question in though, is like can Biden get the

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Speaker 2: message across? Yeah, transmit that message. The next thing that

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Speaker 2: comes up to me is it shouldn't just be on Biden.

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Speaker 2: I'm really a supporter of what I call it sort

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Speaker 2: of teammate strategy, which is that you really bring out early,

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Speaker 2: like all the surrogates that you usually keep out for

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Speaker 2: you know, to the last few weeks, get out Elizabeth Warren,

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Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders, Barack Obama, and just put like all the

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Speaker 2: people out there who can reach the audience that needs

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Speaker 2: to be reached. I think that that would give you

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Speaker 2: a lot of leverage that could actually change things on

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Speaker 2: some dimensions.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm hoping we could talk

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Speaker 1: about for a minute, because I think it is really

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Speaker 1: a strange phenomenon, is it seems to me that Biden

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Speaker 1: is able to push this economic populism without making people

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Speaker 1: freaked out the way that Elizabeth Warren freaks people out.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? And why is that?

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Speaker 2: One obediate answer is sort of like sexism. So it's

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Speaker 2: a very sort of subtle kind of sexism where like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like do you want the woman to

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Speaker 2: be the boss? You know, like the one's actually making

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Speaker 2: effective changes. The other one is like Biden kind of

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Speaker 2: did run on this idea that you know, like I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to be the president who's in your face,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be on Twitter all the time.

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Speaker 2: And he sort of kept that, And but the downside

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 1: Is nobody knows who he is.

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Speaker 2: He knows who he is. You know. A comparable thing

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Speaker 2: might be like the sort of Mexican situation where like Avlo,

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Speaker 2: you know a lot of people breat critics of him,

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Speaker 2: but you know, he did push you a lot of

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Speaker 2: you know, economic populism. Here's a pension and minimum wage

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Speaker 2: that really like improved a lot of people. But also

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Speaker 2: he was on TV every single day every day. You know,

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Speaker 2: he was like, you know, like Trump during the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: but like through the whole presidency, Avlo was like talking

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Speaker 2: about the stuff he his cover was doing poor people,

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Speaker 2: and that became like kind of regular TV watching. I

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Speaker 2: think for a variety of reasons, like Biden, his instincts

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Speaker 2: were not to kind of take all the credit that

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Speaker 2: he could have taken in some ways. You know, the

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Speaker 2: strategy was always like to work out these kind of

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Speaker 2: like bipartisan deals and get the Republicans that you can.

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Speaker 2: But if you're doing that, you don't want to like,

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Speaker 2: you know, spike the football right in a partisan way

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Speaker 2: that could undermind future negotiations. And then so you're kind

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Speaker 2: of like a little bit stuck in a trap. But

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Speaker 2: I mean I think that also politicians have pre existing

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Speaker 2: audiences and people who trust them, And right now where

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Speaker 2: Biden is suffering is the people who had supported Bernie

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Speaker 2: and Elizabeth Warren and also people who supported like Barack Obama.

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Speaker 1: I think he rented those voters and didn't own them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he's never owned them. But I mean, I think,

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Speaker 2: to me, that's why I think this sort of teammate

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Speaker 2: strategy of just like bringing out all the big guns.

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Speaker 2: You see that, Al and I think both like Bernie

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Speaker 2: and Elizabeth Warner becoming much more vocal. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: going off with Biden. I'm not one of those people

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Speaker 2: that says, let's bring out the smokefield rooms, because I

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Speaker 2: gotta tell you there's no smoke field rooms. There's no

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Speaker 2: mechanism we're replacing.

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Speaker 1: Biden did smokefield rooms. Me and I know that he's

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Speaker 1: very smart, the person whose idea this was, but it's

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Speaker 1: such a stupid idea. Americans are so filled with anxiety about,

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Speaker 1: you know, some guy pulling the strings that the idea

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Speaker 1: that then you would have some guys pull the strings

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Speaker 1: on that is so insane.

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Speaker 2: Of course, they would imediately have no legitimacy, would be

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Speaker 2: like usually unpopular with quart a backlash. It's just this,

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Speaker 2: you know, like we're going with Biden.

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Speaker 1: And it would delight Trump by the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think the question is to make it

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Speaker 2: about party rather than just individuals. And this is the

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Speaker 2: big difference for twenty twenty. The Democratic Party is more

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Speaker 2: popular than Biden. And what sesus in poling with Like

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Speaker 2: this is like Ohio where like you know, like Biden

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Speaker 2: was ever gonna win Ohio, but he's actually deeper in

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Speaker 2: the whole that he was last time. But you know,

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Speaker 2: shared Brown is actually looking pretty good in Ohio. And

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Speaker 2: then we see this like all across the country. We

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Speaker 2: see this some special elections where like even in like

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Speaker 2: very red places where there were guys like I still lose,

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Speaker 2: like they're losing by far less than they had been previously.

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Speaker 2: And so there is a sense in which the party

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Speaker 2: is in better shape than the president. And if that's

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Speaker 2: the case, then I think you run with the party.

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Speaker 2: You really highlight all the party leaders and have them

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Speaker 2: be the voice to you know, reach the audiences that

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Speaker 2: Biden can't reach, and to be able to speak to

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Speaker 2: people who trust them, like people who might trust Elizabeth

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Speaker 2: Warren but don't trust Biden. People might trust Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 2: but don't trust Biden. I think EOC is becoming much

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Speaker 2: more prominent, and I actually think that seems like that's

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Speaker 2: a party decision to like, you know, bar ground her

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Speaker 2: because she can reach those voters that Biden, I'm sorry

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Speaker 2: to say, like he needs those voters. I think Biden

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Speaker 2: is other doing other good stuff, Like I thought on

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Speaker 2: the immigration front, like you know, extending the City of

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Speaker 2: Dacap protections very popular and very necessary.

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Speaker 1: And the spouse stuff is good too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, so the Senate death stuff

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Speaker 2: continues to be good. Right now. It seems like a

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Speaker 2: lot of this is like mess I'm okay with like

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Speaker 2: emphasizing Trump as a convicted fellow, and I actually supported that,

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Speaker 2: as you know, like that yeahs over independence. But there

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Speaker 2: is a kind of economic message that we made which

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Speaker 2: I don't think people have really addressed. And I think

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Speaker 2: this is where the public would be on side with Biden,

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Speaker 2: which is like, you know, if Trump gets in, his

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Speaker 2: tax cuts are up for renewal in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: so what over the next president is working with Congress,

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Speaker 2: They're going to decide the fate of those tax cuts.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about brillions of dollars here, like overwhelmingly skewed

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Speaker 2: towards rich people, and those tax cuts weren't popular with

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Speaker 2: the public. I think the idea of extending them even

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Speaker 2: further so that they you know, started putting things like

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Speaker 2: Medicare and social Security in Jeopardy that would be very unpopular,

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Speaker 2: and so I think, yeah, I think, you know, like

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Speaker 2: prescription drugs, you could hammer on that. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of messaging stuff. I think on the inflation

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Speaker 2: side of it. The stuff that Elizabeth Warren keeps talking

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Speaker 2: about is emphasizing the corporate gouging, you know, like these

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Speaker 2: kind of profiteering that some company he took advantage of

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Speaker 2: as a result of the pandemic and as a result

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Speaker 2: of supply chain difficulties and the Biden White House, you know,

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Speaker 2: like they've been going back and forth on this. They

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Speaker 2: did talk about it for a while, then they became silent.

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Speaker 2: They're talking about it again now, and I think that

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Speaker 2: all the polling shows this is very popular, and this

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Speaker 2: is actually a way of addressing the inflation issue in

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Speaker 2: a way that the Democrats can win and separate them

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Speaker 2: out from the Republicans. Because maybe Trump will like opportunistically

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Speaker 2: say heal also go after corporate gouging. But I think

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Speaker 2: you can play to his own record.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no world in which Trump is going after

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Speaker 1: corporate gouging. That's like a complete joke.

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Speaker 2: Of course, that's his mold model for any buddy. So

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Speaker 2: you know, the Biden White House. I think they have

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Speaker 2: a good issue there and I think they're talking about

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Speaker 2: it again now, But I don't know if like they

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Speaker 2: have the credibility that Elizabeth Warren os. So I honestly

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Speaker 2: think like, you know, like having Warren out there and saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, like my good friend Joe Bidens is like,

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Speaker 2: you know with me on this, and then you know

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Speaker 2: the way House kind of agree with that. But I

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Speaker 2: mean like there's a lot of stuff like that that

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Speaker 2: they can really emphasize, you know, have her home, point

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Speaker 2: out the differences, I point out the way like not

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Speaker 2: just that Biden has done good stuff on the economy,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of people are still purtying. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the whole pandemic was very traumatizing, but actually say like

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Speaker 2: Biden's actually gonna fight for you on this front and

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Speaker 2: that these are the actual villains who are responsible for

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Speaker 2: the inflation to some degree, Like this sort of message

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Speaker 2: goes against Joe Biden's instincts, which are sort of conflicted verse,

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Speaker 2: which aren't in favor of like kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: making corporate American escapeboat. But if he can't do it,

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Speaker 2: I think there are other people in the party that

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Speaker 2: can make that message.

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Speaker 1: Right now, now, agreed, How does Biden break through this

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Speaker 1: sort of media bubble? You know, if you get your

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Speaker 1: news from newspapers, use Fort Biden, And if you get

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Speaker 1: your news from many other venues, you support Trump. So

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Speaker 1: how does Biden break through that media bubble?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like such a big problem that it's

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Speaker 2: somebody you kind of need a time machine because you know,

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Speaker 2: like if I were could go back ten years and

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Speaker 2: tell like, you know, Democratic billionaires to be investing in anything,

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Speaker 2: it would be like, you know, all these kind of

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Speaker 2: like fake websites for local news that the Republicans have

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Speaker 2: set up, Like if they could have done the same

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Speaker 2: thing now. But having said that, I mean they are

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Speaker 2: all that. Podcasting is one example. There are things that

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Speaker 2: kind of reach people that don't pay attention to newspapers,

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Speaker 2: you know, like Obama went on like WTFF that Mark

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Speaker 2: bren podcasts and that sort of stuff, and went on

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Speaker 2: sports podcasts. I think like if both Biden and the

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Speaker 2: Democrats that kind of had a media strategy that's focused

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Speaker 2: on these kind of alternative venues, that might be it.

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Speaker 2: And especially like non political stop like I think you

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Speaker 2: go on a sports show or an entertainment show. Then

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Speaker 2: people who habitually tune out politics, you can possibly reach them.

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Speaker 2: But again I want to underscore, I think this has

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Speaker 2: to be a Democratic party scene, not a I didn't

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Speaker 2: think do it in some ways. I mean, like the

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Speaker 2: Obama people, you know, really use that strategy in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: that even afterwards in terms of trying to push you

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Speaker 2: some of Obama's agenda. So I mean I think that

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Speaker 2: they're the ones worth listening to on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Get here,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Oh always great to be out.

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Speaker 1: Spring us here, and I bet you are trying to

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Speaker 1: look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

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Speaker 1: new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

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Speaker 1: and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 1: Will Rollins is a candidate for Congress in the forty

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Speaker 1: first district of California. Welcome back to Fast Politics, hopefully

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Speaker 1: soon to be Congressman Will Roland.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Mollie, great to be back.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of congress people on this podcast

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people running for Congress on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: But you are a member of my family because you represent,

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Speaker 1: or you will hopefully represent, the district that my father

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Speaker 1: lives in.

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Speaker 4: Yes, the Coachella Valley, hom Spring, Mom, Desert, Rancho, Mirage, Lakinta,

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Speaker 4: Indian Wells. So we got some great cities to represent

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Speaker 4: in the House.

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Speaker 1: Tell us who you represented by and explained to us

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Speaker 1: what this looks like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is a brand new district in southern

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Speaker 4: California that was created in redistricting. And Ken Calvert, who's

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Speaker 4: my opponent, had represented a traditionally deep red part of

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Speaker 4: the Inland Empire, and in redistricting he lost very Republican

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Speaker 4: cities Marietta, where my cousins still live, a northern Temecula,

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Speaker 4: and he picked up the Coachella Valley, which is a

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Speaker 4: much more heavily Democratic area in registration. And so after

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty two, the district went from a Trump plus

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Speaker 4: seven to a Democratic majority electorate in November of that year,

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Speaker 4: and it's kind of seesawed back and forth between rs

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Speaker 4: and d's with just a few thousand votes either direction

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Speaker 4: and about ninety thousand independents. So it's become one of

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Speaker 4: the most competitive house races in the country and a

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Speaker 4: critical pickup opportunity for Democrats in twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I want to point out that Ken Calver sucks, but

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Speaker 1: tell us why. I'm known for my subtlety.

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Speaker 4: He's been in Congress since nineteen ninety two, so I

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Speaker 4: was eight years old when he was first elected, and

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Speaker 4: in that time his net worth has gone up by

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Speaker 4: twenty million dollars if you look at his financial disclosures,

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Speaker 4: and part of the way that he's made his money

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Speaker 4: has been through real estate and using earmarks to benefit

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Speaker 4: his own investments. And I'll just give one example of that,

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Speaker 4: which interestingly, Fox News did a seven minute documentary talking

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Speaker 4: about his use of earmarks for personal gain. And he

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Speaker 4: buys up vacant parcel of land earmarks transportation projects nearby,

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Speaker 4: turns around flips the property for enormous profit. So it's

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Speaker 4: a version of insider trading that basically involves real estate.

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Speaker 4: And I've found that a lot of folks in the district,

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Speaker 4: you know, cross party lines, don't like their tax dollars

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Speaker 4: being used to line the pockets of their own member

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Speaker 4: of Congress. So that's been one of the many reasons

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Speaker 4: why I think we're going to flip the seat in

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Speaker 4: the fall. But he's also had, you know, a horrible

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Speaker 4: record on democracy, on choice, on LGBTQ rights, and really

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Speaker 4: just delivering for working families. I mean the guy, you know,

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Speaker 4: those of us in blue states. He actually increased our

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Speaker 4: taxes with that twenty seventeen bill that made it harder

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Speaker 4: for us to deduct state and local income taxes, made

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Speaker 4: it harder for us to deduct our mortgage interest at

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Speaker 4: a time when the rates are at all time highs.

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Speaker 4: And so I've really tried to focus on what he's

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Speaker 4: done to hurt the pocket books of constituents, whether it's

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Speaker 4: you know, voting against capping the cost of insulin at

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Speaker 4: thirty five dollars a month, voting against capping the out

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Speaker 4: of pocket prescription drug costs at twenty five hundred dollars

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Speaker 4: a year for senior, all of these really bread and

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Speaker 4: butter issues that are driving a lot of voters in

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Speaker 4: the Inland Empire who are faced with rising costs and

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Speaker 4: seeing their own member of Congress get twenty million bucks

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Speaker 4: since he was first elected.

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Speaker 3: And I always ask.

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Speaker 4: People when I'm in rooms, I'm like, how many people

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Speaker 4: here have seen their net worth go out by twenty

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Speaker 4: million dollars since nineteen ninety two. You know, shockingly, no

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Speaker 4: hands go up in the room. And we've got a

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Speaker 4: member of Congress who's really been using his position to

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Speaker 4: enrich himself, which I think is one of the biggest

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Speaker 4: motivators for people in our district.

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Speaker 1: I'm really shocked that he hasn't made more money. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's been a many years. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: like if you're doing something that sketchy like anyway. But

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Speaker 1: he's probably not that smart. So let's talk about how

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Speaker 1: it's been. You've run before. This is the second time

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Speaker 1: you've run. You came very close to the first time.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I had a very different career before I

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Speaker 4: ran for Congress in twenty two. I worked in federal

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Speaker 4: law enforcement. I was a federal prosecutor in Southern California,

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Speaker 4: and I especially in counter terrorism and counterintelligence, and I

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Speaker 4: loved the job. Honestly didn't think that I would leave

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Speaker 4: that job for a very long time. But after January sixth,

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Speaker 4: there were about two dozen people who flew back to

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Speaker 4: Southern California after attacking the capital, and part of our

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Speaker 4: job was to help our colleagues in Washington, round these

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Speaker 4: spokes up, get them arraigned, help the FBI with search

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Speaker 4: warrants after the capital attack, and get them back to

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Speaker 4: DC where they could face trial. And while we were

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Speaker 4: doing that, Ken Calbert was voting to decertify the election,

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Speaker 4: voting against the Committee to investigate, and then final straw

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Speaker 4: for me called for dropping charges against these people. And so,

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Speaker 4: I mean, the truth about the first time I ran

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Speaker 4: is that I was just pissed off. I felt like

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Speaker 4: it was righteous. It was a Trump plus seven seat.

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Speaker 4: Everybody told me it was unwinnable. I didn't really care.

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Speaker 4: Famous last words to my partner, I was like, I promise,

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Speaker 4: I'll only do this once. Here we are now, because

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Speaker 4: I literally found out that I lost the election while

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Speaker 4: I was on the floor of the House of Representatives

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Speaker 4: a new member training in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Two, because it was so close, right.

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Speaker 4: And they were still counting ballots, and we expected that

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Speaker 4: the ballots would break our way because the registrar had

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Speaker 4: said that the remaining were mail in, but unfortunately for us,

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Speaker 4: that included mail in ballots that people had completed at

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Speaker 4: home and then physically dropped off at a drop bot.

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Speaker 4: And so it ended up swinging towards Republicans at the end.

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Speaker 4: But ultimately, at the end of the day, i'ming that

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Speaker 4: close with only six months after my primary and looking

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Speaker 4: at some of the underlying data in this district, you know,

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Speaker 4: figuring out that we ended up being the only challenger

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Speaker 4: in the state of California to win. Independent voters had

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Speaker 4: a really good performance compared to the Biden number in

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Speaker 4: this district. Neither Biden nor Trump broke fifty percent in

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Speaker 4: this district, and we lost less than one percent off

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Speaker 4: Biden's vote share, which I think is a very good

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Speaker 4: sign when you have a low turnout conservative electorate in California,

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Speaker 4: where we had almost an eight point gap between registered

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Speaker 4: Republicans sixty one percent of whom voted in twenty two

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Speaker 4: and only fifty three percent roughly of registered Democrats. And

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Speaker 4: so in a presidential year, when you can get that

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Speaker 4: close in a midterm and you come back and do

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Speaker 4: it again, build up your name ID, you have a

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Speaker 4: much better shot. And I'm really excited this time because

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Speaker 4: our name ID has been going up and even with

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Speaker 4: just fifty to sixty percent name IDA in the district,

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Speaker 4: now we already have a one point lead in the

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Speaker 4: polls Calvert Scott, you know, eighty to ninety percent. Name

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Speaker 4: idea which tells me we have room to grow even

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Speaker 4: from that narrow lead that we currently have.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like what are you running on?

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Speaker 4: Economic populism is a big part of this campaign and

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Speaker 4: anti corruption reform because of the unique nature of the matchup.

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Speaker 4: I talk a lot about my experience working alongside Republicans

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Speaker 4: and Democrats in law enforcement. You know, my first job

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Speaker 4: out of college was for a Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger,

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Speaker 4: even though I've been a lifelong Democrat. And it's really

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Speaker 4: a theme of public service versus self enrichment And who

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Speaker 4: do you want to be your voice in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 4: Do you want somebody who's going to enrich himself to

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Speaker 4: the team of twenty million since he got elected. Do

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Speaker 4: you want somebody who's been ranked one of the most

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Speaker 4: corrupt members of Congress? Do you want somebody who's Republican

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Speaker 4: colleagues tried to keep them off the Appropriations Committee because

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Speaker 4: they were worried about his ethics? I mean, or do

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Speaker 4: you want somebody who's going to vote to ban all members.

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Speaker 3: Of Congress from trading stock?

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Speaker 4: Do you want somebody who's going to vote to impose

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Speaker 4: a lifetime lobbying by former members of Congress to vote

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Speaker 4: to overturn Citizens United so that we get dark money

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Speaker 4: and the power of special interests in corporations out of politics,

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Speaker 4: because there's no way that you're going to pay less

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Speaker 4: for your gas, your groceries, your rent if you have

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Speaker 4: a member of Congress who is only worried about his

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Speaker 4: real estate portfolio. And I talk a lot about that

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Speaker 4: because people in the Iland Empire are seeing huge increases

436
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 4: in their rents. I mean, studio apartments in Corona are

437
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 4: going for two thousand bucks a month now, and our

438
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 4: member is one of the largest real estate owners in

439
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 4: the district. And I think there's just this contrast between

440
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 4: working families and you know, the support we've gotten from

441
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 4: so many incredible labor unions who are really earning a

442
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 4: living because of the power of collective bargaining. I mean,

443
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 4: being able to earn six figures in a county where

444
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 4: the median income is seventy thousand dollars per household because

445
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 4: some of these folks are going out and working on

446
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 4: the ninety one seventy one exchange in Corona, for example.

447
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: Can you explain what that is.

448
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this was a project in the Inland Empire.

449
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 4: The ninety one and seventy one are notoriously congested freeways

450
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 4: in our district, and there's an exchange that is trying

451
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 4: to kind of alleviate some of the traffic in that

452
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 4: area that has been funded by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill.

453
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 4: At least part of the funding has come from that

454
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 4: bipartisan legislation that Calvert voted against. And there's about three

455
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: hundred million in infrastructure funding overall coming to Riverside County

456
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 4: over the objection of Ken Calvert.

457
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 3: That was again an bill that he voted against.

458
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 4: And so it's pretty incredible to go to these job

459
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 4: training facilities that these unions have and I just went

460
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 4: to the sheet metal Workers job training facility last week

461
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 4: and seeing the faces of these apprentices light up when

462
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 4: they're talking about the careers and the path that they

463
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,400
Speaker 4: have ahead of them.

464
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 3: And you don't need a college degree for this.

465
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 4: My grandfather was a welder, never even finished high school,

466
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 4: ended up starting a small business that still operates to

467
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 4: this day. And I think that kind of opportunity and

468
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 4: living the American dream and seeing the ability to earn

469
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 4: a living and have a retirement is something that everybody

470
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 4: can relate to, no matter what party you belong to.

471
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 4: You just have to have or of Congress who cares

472
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 4: about actually delivering that for Riverside County. And so that's

473
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 4: some of them. I think the most important things that

474
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 4: we've been campaigning on in this district.

475
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: I am very obsessed with the idea of stopping trading.

476
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 1: Members of Congress not trade stocks. There is some bipartisan

477
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: support to it. Do you think there's a world in

478
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: which you could actually do that, you could actually get

479
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: that done?

480
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 4: I do, And I think about the example of Abigail

481
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 4: Spamberger and Matt Gates, who I think have co sponsored

482
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 4: a bill to do this, And I think if you

483
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 4: can see people like that, who are about as different

484
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 4: as they come, you know, unite on that kind of

485
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 4: a ban, it tells you how popular it is for

486
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 4: one thing across party line. And we've seen this in

487
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 4: our districts. I mean ninety percent of people in both

488
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 4: parties ninety percent plus ninety percent of independence. And I

489
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 4: actually think Democrats this cycle have an opportunity to champion

490
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 4: that kind of good government reform to channel the populist

491
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 4: rage that we've all seen directed at Congress with all

492
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 4: time low approval ratings into productive change. I mean, Congress

493
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 4: needs to show the American people that it cares about

494
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 4: policing itself, that it cares about turnover in that body,

495
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 4: that it cares about passing the torch to a new

496
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 4: generation too. I think a lot of people have seen,

497
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 4: you know, people like Calvert go for three decades, which

498
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 4: is a big part of the reason I've been talking

499
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: about term limits this cycle that are also popular across

500
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 4: you know, ninety percent of party lines, and I know

501
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 4: there's Look, there's good arguments on both sides of this issue.

502
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, I think the public's

503
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 4: confidence in the institution needs to be restored with a

504
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 4: massive change, and I think that we as Democrats are

505
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: in a unique position to campaign on that kind of

506
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 4: populist for reform because unfortunately, right now the other side

507
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 4: will never never support any of these kinds of good

508
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 4: government reforms, But the public are craving it, and so

509
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 4: I think that's why it's been successful for us.

510
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 1: Certainly true, when you talk to people in your district,

511
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: what do they tell you? What are there besides the

512
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: real estate being expensive, which again partially the FED is

513
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: to blame for people not being able to buy houses,

514
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: but also California is notoriously expensive for the estate wise.

515
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: What else do you see that you're listening to people

516
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: say that you think could help the Biden administration, could

517
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: help the Biden campaign, or could help Democrats win Just in.

518
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 4: General, I think we need to lean in on the

519
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 4: issues where Republicans think that they have the high ground,

520
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,479
Speaker 4: you know, and that includes things like immigration and crime.

521
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 4: And so when people talk to me about they say

522
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 4: that they're worried about the border, or they're worried about

523
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: prime in California. I talk a lot about my bio

524
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 4: and I make sure that people know the contrast between

525
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 4: you know, somebody who worked in federal law enforcement and

526
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 4: prosecuted members of m S thirteen, the Cinelo Cartel, Fedanyl traffickers,

527
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 4: and Calvert, who has said that the FBI has been

528
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 4: infiltrated by rot who has voted defund federal law enforcement.

529
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: I mean that was one.

530
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: Of the votes, the last votes when McCarthy was Speaker,

531
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 4: that Continuing Resolution, you know, voted to cut funding from

532
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 4: border patrol. And you know, the guys got signs all

533
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 4: over our district that say secure the border, and I say,

534
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 4: the guys had thirty two years to secure the border

535
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 4: and he hasn't gotten it done. And his allies just

536
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 4: killed the toughest bipartisan border security bill in a generation

537
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 4: because they just want to use it as a campaign issue.

538
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 4: And we have to keep repeating that message and talk

539
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 4: about what we want to do to secure the border.

540
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: You know, modern technology, drones, thermal imaging, more boots on

541
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: the ground. And by the way, the Border Patrol Union

542
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 4: supported that bill that Calvert refused to support, and so

543
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: I think we as Democrats have to lean in on

544
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: that issue and know how hypocritical and cynical some of

545
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 4: these members of Congress are in the GOP caucus and

546
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 4: certainly at the top of the ticket, the same is

547
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 4: absolutely true because Trump told Congress to kill the bill

548
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 4: so that he could use it as a campaign issue.

549
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 4: And I think that all of us as Democrats, collectively,

550
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 4: from the top of the ticket on down, cannot surrender.

551
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: On immigration, crime, economy, these are the issues where Republicans think, oh,

552
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 4: you know, we're just inherently trusted to deal with this,

553
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: and they're horrible on each one.

554
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: Of those issues, and we have there.

555
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 4: We really just have to keep hammering our own messaging

556
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 4: on it. We want a secure border, We want to

557
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 4: bring folks here who can help with the labor shortage

558
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 4: but are here legally, right. We want to provide a

559
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 4: path to citizenship for DOCA recipients, but all of that

560
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 4: needs to be couched in the framing of border security.

561
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 4: And also talking about Brian, I mean, these guys are

562
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 4: now campaigning proudly for a convicted felon, but setting aside Trump, right,

563
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 4: I mean, just think about their criminal justice policies and

564
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 4: how unsafe they make all of us. I mean, I

565
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 4: give the example of gun violence. After 'v allde Calvert

566
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 4: votes against background checks for weapons. We've had two Riverside

567
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: County sheriff's deputies killed in the past few years by

568
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 4: felons who never should have gotten their hands on firearms.

569
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 4: So these guys have no idea how to keep you

570
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 4: or your kids safe at school, and we as Democrats

571
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 4: have to be talking about public safety more and what

572
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 4: we want to do to get guns out of the

573
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 4: hands of people who are a threat to our community.

574
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 4: With a basic federal red flag law, for example, that

575
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: just says, if you threaten to shoot up a school

576
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: with an AR fifteen, the cops can go with a

577
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 4: court order and take away AR fifth team before you

578
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 4: commit the mass shooting. I mean, even NRA members in

579
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: my district I've talked to have said, yeah, that makes

580
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: sense to me. And if you're if you're getting some

581
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 4: agreement from even the line members regular you know, members

582
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: of the NRA in Riverside County, it tells you how

583
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 4: out of step Ken Calvert is with the general public.

584
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 4: And why, you know, we got to own these issues

585
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 4: where ninety percent of the public is with us and

586
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 4: we just have to keep talking about them to make

587
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 4: sure our messaging sinks in.

588
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much, Will Rollins. I wish

589
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: you all the best. Michael Waldman is President and CEO

590
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: of the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law.

591
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Michael, Thank you for having me.

592
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: So it's Supreme Court season. Do you live and breathe

593
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: the court and the law. But I, as a hobbyist,

594
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: get a big break from how they're fucking up our

595
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: country and then in and I am reminded of what

596
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: lunatics they are don't we still have like twenty seven

597
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: cases to go.

598
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 5: One of the lessons here is this sort of like

599
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 5: school teacher lesson, don't save your work for the last minute.

600
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 5: It suggests that there's still a lot of brawling going

601
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 5: on behind the scenes.

602
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: Oh does it say more about that.

603
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 5: The cases they have taken are extraordinarily controversial, extraordinarily political.

604
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 5: One assumes that at least on some of them, the dissenters,

605
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 5: you know, most often that's going to be Sodo Mayor

606
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 5: and Kagan and Jackson are trying to get their licks in,

607
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 5: so we'll see. But this idea that we sit around

608
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 5: every June waiting for these government officials, because that's what

609
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 5: they are. You know, they're not wizards, even though they

610
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 5: wear robes, they're not religious figures. They're just government officials

611
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 5: with a lifetime job. Waiting for them to tell us

612
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 5: what country we live in is not how other countries

613
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 5: do it. It's not also how our country has done

614
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 5: it for a lot of its time. And it's a

615
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 5: it's kind of nutty in my view.

616
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: It's completely nutty. And I'm hoping you could talk for

617
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: a minute about what I've been struck by. Is like

618
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: they said, Robert said, like, we're done with abortion after

619
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: they overturned Row right after Dobbs. And in fact what

620
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: happened was they now have two cases in the docket.

621
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: One is this methapristone abortion pill, which was kicked off

622
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: on standing. But the fact that the Fifth Circuit even

623
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: got excited by it, though the Fifth Circuit is very

624
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: right wing, was crazy, right, Like, that's not a victory

625
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: for liberals that they weren't going to just take away

626
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: a drug because people in Texas wanted them to. And

627
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: then this Imdala case. Can you talk about those sort

628
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: of implications of both of them.

629
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the MEPhI prisone case is really significant.

630
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 5: It's not just the Fifth Circuit, which is the most

631
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 5: reactionary federal court in the whole country. This sort of

632
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 5: root and toot in Texas federal appeals, right, that even

633
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 5: this Supreme Court these days seems to enjoy, you know,

634
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 5: swatting down. It's that there was this one judge in Amarillo, Texas,

635
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 5: Judge Kasmeric who's a big anti abortion activist, right, who

636
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 5: used to.

637
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: Be a real activist, right, I mean he was never

638
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: he was like a real anti choice activist.

639
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 5: Well, his sister very helpfully told journalists that his mission

640
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 5: was to end abushed in the United States. But you know,

641
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 5: the rules in Texas and only in Texas, are that

642
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 5: you basically can pick your judge. And so people go

643
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 5: to Amarillo and they form a group in Amarillo to

644
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 5: bring a case. And this was the issue with standing

645
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 5: was not just that they basically took a right wing

646
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 5: tweet and tried to get it made into a Supreme

647
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,479
Speaker 5: Court ruling, but that they made up the plaintiff so

648
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 5: they could go to this one courtroom in this one

649
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 5: town in Texas to get this one judge to make

650
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 5: this ruling that mephipristone, which is the way the majority

651
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 5: of abortion care is done in this country, that the

652
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 5: Food and Drug Administration had messed up the way it

653
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 5: did its approvals two decades ago. It was absolutely a

654
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 5: ridiculous argument. And among other things, the gazillion dollar pharmaceutical

655
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 5: industry was a guest.

656
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: Right, I mean that you could see how they might

657
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: have problems with it.

658
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 5: I was not surprised that the court ruled the way

659
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 5: they did, and it was nine to nothing. As you said,

660
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 5: on standing, first of all, and this goes to the problem,

661
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 5: right now with the Supreme Court, I would have been

662
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 5: absolutely astonished if they'd done anything other than rule to

663
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 5: keep methipristone on the market. And the reason is if

664
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 5: they had ruled otherwise, Democrats would have won three hundred

665
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 5: House seats. And if you want a predictive lens right now,

666
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 5: look at the Supreme Court on how it's making rulings.

667
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 5: Understanding what is in the electoral interests of the Republican

668
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 5: Party is probably the best way to make predictions. You

669
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 5: would do pretty well on that. But they also winked

670
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 5: on this and said, there's this law from the nineteen hundred,

671
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 5: the eighteen hundred, I mean the Comstock, which was this

672
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 5: kind of banning smut in the males and contraception and.

673
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: The rifles to keep women from becoming lasidious.

674
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that they could use that meaning come back

675
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 5: to us after the election. It was a little bit

676
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 5: of a hint.

677
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: And we heard it in the oral arguments too. I

678
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: mean they both Alido and tom As mentioned Comstock, not

679
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: by name but by number.

680
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

681
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 5: And this idea that, oh, you know, we're just letting

682
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 5: the people decide, We're letting the states decide. They're kind

683
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 5: of noticing that every time the people get a chance

684
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 5: to decide this, they decide for reproductive freedom. So you know,

685
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 5: at least for a Thomas and Alito, they're letting their

686
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 5: free flag fly here a bit. The truth is, there

687
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,959
Speaker 5: was a settled consensus on abortion rights in the United

688
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 5: States for many years. It was not necessarily what the

689
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 5: most ardent pro choice activists wanted. It was certainly not

690
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 5: what the anti abortion activists wanted, but it was reflected

691
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 5: in the case called Casey, which allowed for some restrictions

692
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 5: but basically broadly you know, reproductive rights and throwing it

693
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 5: open to the system has led to chaos, confusion, women

694
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 5: being forced to flee their states, but also lots and

695
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 5: lots more lawsuits and so you know. The other big

696
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 5: case that they haven't ruled on yet has to do

697
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 5: with whether emergency rooms have to provide stabilizing care to patients.

698
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 5: This is also one of these things where doctors already

699
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 5: have all kinds of conscience clauses and other things. This

700
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 5: one will also very possibly be decided not on the

701
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 5: kind of guts of it, but on questions of whether

702
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 5: federal law preempts or not. But they're going to just

703
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 5: having to hear more and more of these cases over time.

704
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an interesting point because the broad strokes

705
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: in which the Supreme Court is interested in remaking the

706
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: country are pretty profound and alarming. I want you to

707
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: sort of talk us through kind of where we are

708
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: and what could happen and what the sort of thinking

709
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: is to save American democracy.

710
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 5: I think that we're in period and this has happened

711
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 5: a few times before in the country's history, not all

712
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 5: that often, but a few times before, where the Court

713
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 5: has been captured by a faction of a faction. It

714
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 5: is now fully in the grip of the federalist society

715
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 5: and of a very extreme conservative politically conservative set of views. Fully,

716
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 5: and you know, it is an institution with vast power,

717
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 5: and it turns out minimal accountability and thus really significant

718
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 5: susceptibility to this kind of thing. My book is called

719
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 5: the Supermajority because there's now six of these justices and

720
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 5: they move more or less in lockstep. And in the

721
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 5: first year that they had control, they overturned Roe v. Wade.

722
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 5: They put all these other privacy rights at risk. They

723
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 5: also issued the most extreme Second Amendment ruling by far

724
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 5: in the country's history, in a case called Bruin, which

725
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 5: said that you can, in effect that you cannot consider

726
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 5: contemporary public safety concerns when deciding if a gun law

727
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 5: is okay under the Second Amendment only quote history tradition,

728
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 5: meaning what were the gun laws in seventeen ninety one.

729
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: This opens the door to this insane textualism, which I

730
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: would love you to talk about, but keep going.

731
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: Well.

732
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 5: And the third thing they did in that first three

733
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 5: days that they were ruling was begin an assault on

734
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 5: the ability of the government to protect the environment, public safety,

735
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 5: public health, that kind of thing. And that is something

736
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 5: that is if you want to say, well, what's continued.

737
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 5: You know, last year they overturned the use of race

738
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 5: and college admissions. One of the things they're doing now,

739
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 5: case after case after case, they're chipping away at the

740
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 5: ability of regulatory agencies of the government to protect public

741
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 5: health and safety and fair markets, and that stuff is like,

742
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 5: you know, it's less vivid, it's more arcane. But a

743
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 5: lot of these earlier cases were for the I always

744
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 5: said was for the base. This is for the paying customers.

745
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 5: This is what a lot of businesses and a lot

746
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 5: of right wing legal advocates have wanted, which is to

747
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 5: try to use for Thisupreme Court to try to use

748
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 5: its power to curb the ability to act to protect

749
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 5: the public. And that's going to continue for a long,

750
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 5: long long time.

751
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: So that's like Koch brothers fantasy stuff.

752
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 5: It's what they pin on their dorm wall.

753
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

754
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 3: Right.

755
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 5: The question is what can we do about it? The

756
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 5: Court is acting in this political way, and there is

757
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 5: a backlash. And in our country's history when the Supreme

758
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 5: Court has been extreme or partisan or unduly activist, there

759
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 5: is very often a very significant and very political backlash.

760
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 5: And this is not really a backlash that's going to

761
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 5: come in courtrooms or even in law review notes, but

762
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 5: in the in the ballot box and on the streets.

763
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 5: And the issue of the Supreme Court has to become

764
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 5: and how to reform it and its corruption have to

765
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 5: become central political issues. And that's how we can gain

766
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 5: control of the situation.

767
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: I think, so talk to us about what that looks like.

768
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: First two two minutes on textualism, because I think I think

769
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: our listeners need to understand that the way that the

770
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: right is lying about these insane decisions they're making is

771
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: that they're saying that they come from the text of

772
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: the Constitution. Can you say more about that?

773
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's the text of the Constitution, and it's

774
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 5: the text of these laws too. So originalism is the

775
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 5: idea that the only legitimate way to interpret the Constitution

776
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 5: is to ask what it meant to the people who

777
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 5: ratified it, meaning most of the time property owning white

778
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 5: men from the seventeen hundreds, that we should be governed

779
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 5: today by their social values. Textualism is kind of like

780
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 5: a cousin of originalism. It's the same notion in a way.

781
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 5: And it's the idea that when you look at a

782
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 5: provision of the Constitution, but especially of a law that

783
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 5: was passed by Congress, you don't ask, well, what's the

784
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 5: idea here, what's the idea behind this law? Have things changed?

785
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 5: How do we apply that idea? What did Congress mean

786
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 5: when it did this thing? Textualism the way they do

787
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 5: it is look at the word on the page, like

788
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 5: cut it out with the scissors, and let's look at

789
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 5: the word and get a bunch of dictionaries. Literally, they

790
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 5: sit around quoting dictionaries and saying, well, this is what

791
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 5: this word means. Well, no, this is what this word means.

792
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 5: As though, of course we all carry around dictionaries all day,

793
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 5: don't we. I mean, and certainly one of the things

794
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 5: I like to point is there had not been any

795
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 5: dictionaries at the time of the Constitutional Convention. Noah Webster

796
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 5: didn't do the dictionary until several years later. So the

797
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 5: idea that everyone's sitting around with dictionaries. But so, this

798
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 5: bump stock gun case was not really a case about

799
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 5: the Second Amendment. It was a pro gun case. But

800
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: they didn't say, oh, the Second Amendment says you can't

801
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 5: do this. Remember, this was what after this demonic person

802
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 5: modified his semi automatic weapon to make it into a

803
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 5: machine gun basically, and killed fifty six people at a

804
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 5: music festival in Las Vegas and wounded I think hundreds

805
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 5: more out the window of his hotel room, and the

806
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 5: Trump administration, backed by believe it or not, the NRA,

807
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 5: issued this ruling that said, oh, you know, that's like

808
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 5: a machine gun, and machine guns have been illegal since

809
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 5: the nineteen thirties. Congress passed the law responding to the threat.

810
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 5: This is true of Bonnie and Clyde and John Dillinger.

811
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 5: They've made machine guns illegal, but the text of the

812
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 5: law didn't say you must not use a bump stock

813
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 5: to turn your weapon into a machine gun.

814
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: Perhaps because they didn't have bump stocks back then.

815
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 5: Right, And it was obviously what Congress intended. They were

816
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 5: not saying, we, you know, we really want you have

817
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 5: a machine gun as long as you use the right dictionary.

818
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 5: But that's basically what the court said, and it was

819
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 5: yet another six to three ruling. It was just a

820
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 5: pro gun ruling, right. And a lot of the time,

821
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 5: now what Congress, what the Supreme Court is doing on

822
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 5: these cases involving again environmental and other kinds of regulation,

823
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 5: is they're taking the power away from the government agencies

824
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 5: that sometimes have to act to protect the public without

825
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 5: waiting around for Congress to pass a new law. And

826
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 5: very often Congress has passed a law, and sometimes the

827
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 5: laws are kind of broad, and they expect them to

828
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 5: be implemented by the people who are the experts. And

829
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 5: that's kind of what Congress wants, that's what our democratic

830
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 5: system wants. These right wing judges are saying, oh, no, no, no, no,

831
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 5: Congress must pass a law with great specifics about what

832
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 5: it is they want to have happened, which of course

833
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 5: means much of the time that right wing judges get

834
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 5: to decide what agencies can and can't do. And are Congress,

835
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 5: who we love so much, you know, they're not like

836
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 5: the most functional legislative body in the world. Right now,

837
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 5: who's kidding who about what they're going to be able

838
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 5: to do?

839
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: Right exactly? There are a lot more decisions. We're taping

840
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: this on Tuesday. It'll come out of Wednesday, on Thursday

841
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: and Friday. There are more decisions and more decisions and

842
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: more decisions. One of the things that this Supreme Court

843
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: has historically done is they have historically released the last

844
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: controversial decisions earlier and saved the really big decisions for

845
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: right when they go on vacation, so they don't have

846
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: to deal with protests. How unusual is that? And is

847
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: that what they're going to do with immunity? You don't

848
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: have to predict, but it sure seems likely.

849
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 5: It doesn't, so I think of it as like foaming

850
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 5: the runway. So they did this, that's mephropristone ruling first.

851
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 5: So the liberals will go, ah, they're really so fair minded,

852
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 5: you know.

853
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 3: Right.

854
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 5: Look, to my mind, there's some big rulings yet to come.

855
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 5: They may trim back their crazy doctrine on the Second

856
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 5: Amendment in a case called Rahimi.

857
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: The oral arguments during Rahimi sounded like they might not

858
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 1: go crazy. But again, sometimes these guys in the oral

859
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: arguments sound saner than they actually are.

860
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, Yogi Berra, the great baseball player said, never

861
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 5: make predictions, especially about the future. But I think we

862
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 5: can expect them to further curb the ability of government

863
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 5: agencies to protect the environment and other things by overturning

864
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 5: something called Chevron defference.

865
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: Talk about Chevron deference because it's so important what it means.

866
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 5: There's a long standing rule for decades, a practice that

867
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,760
Speaker 5: said that if a law passed by Congress is unclear,

868
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 5: that the experts and the regulatory agencies can interpret it,

869
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 5: and judges will defer to the way the experts and

870
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 5: the agencies see what the language means, unless there's a

871
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 5: good reason not to. And this would say no, no, no.

872
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 5: Judges basically can make these decisions, and added to other

873
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 5: things that the Supreme Court has done in recent years,

874
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 5: it would again really significantly undermine the ability to act

875
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 5: on everything from the next pandemic to climate change, to

876
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 5: health and safety regulation and others. To me, the biggest

877
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 5: thing the Supreme Court is going to be remembered for

878
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 5: this year. You know what historians will look back, if

879
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 5: there are historians, what they look back at this term

880
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 5: as being about is the Donald Trump immunity case. And

881
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 5: on that one, court has already done its damage in

882
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 5: my view right.

883
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: Because they've been giving him time to differ so he wins.

884
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 5: Yes. In other words, it is a legally easy case. Yes,

885
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is not immune from prosecutions for trying to

886
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 5: criminally overthrow the Constitution. Even if you think there is

887
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 5: a distinction between official and unofficial act, it's not an

888
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 5: official act to try to overthrow the Constitution. Even if

889
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 5: you're sitting in the Oval office when you do it

890
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 5: and conspiring with other government employees to do it, that

891
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 5: doesn't make it an official act. Jack Smith, the Special Prosecutor,

892
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 5: asked the Supreme Court to clear this up last year,

893
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 5: and instead they hammed the haud. They made sure the

894
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 5: lower courts took their sweet time, they heard the argument

895
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 5: in the last hour of the last day that they

896
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 5: heard arguments, and they made it clear they had all

897
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 5: kinds of profound thoughts they were going to want to

898
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 5: take their time to put on paper just as Gorsuch said,

899
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 5: we must rule for the ages and when they could

900
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 5: have ruled on the spot. We will likely hear some

901
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 5: kind of an opinion that says, no, presidents are not

902
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 5: immune from prosecution. Maybe in some instances they are, but

903
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 5: presidents are not immune from prosecution. We will probably hear

904
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 5: a beautiful rhetoric about you know, nobody is a ko

905
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,479
Speaker 5: president is a king, and nobody is above the law.

906
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 5: But meanwhile they've given him what he craves, which is time.

907
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 5: They've made sure that it is very very unlikely that

908
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 5: the voters will know the information from the trial and

909
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 5: whether he's guilty in a court of law before the election,

910
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 5: and that was what he wanted. And people say, stop

911
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 5: the steal, you know, start the stall. The stall to

912
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 5: me is the most egregious political intervention by a Supreme

913
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 5: Court that I can even think of. I mean, much worse,

914
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 5: for example, to me than bush vik Or where there

915
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 5: was kind of like a tie election that year. This

916
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 5: is just bailing him out.

917
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: Michael, thank you. I hope you will come back.

918
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 5: I hope I can come back. And we need to

919
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 5: make sure that this is an election issue that people

920
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 5: talk about, term limits, that people talk about ethics that

921
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 5: the Democrats Joe Biden started to finally talk about. This

922
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 5: keeps at it, and not just in fundraisers, but on camera.

923
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: No moment full Jesse Cannon.

924
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: My Junk Fast. Those clips of Sinclair where they all

925
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 2: say the same thing, bashing Biden, it never stops. What

926
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 2: are you seeing here?

927
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: So Sinclair, which is an organization owned by a conservative millionaire,

928
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: perhaps billionaire he's hoping. Basically, they brought up all these

929
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: affiliate stations, local news. You watch your news, your weather,

930
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: and they sneak in a little bit of Fox, so

931
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: you think you're getting the weather, but really you're getting

932
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of Rupert Murdoch. And we saw last week.

933
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: You know they're pushing this message that Biden is somehow

934
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: infirmed quite successfully as a way to try pretty hard

935
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: to make Trump look better. But since Claire is going

936
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: to try. So if you watch sin Claire, or you

937
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: have a loved one who does, turn it off, that's

938
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday,

939
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds in politics

940
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what

941
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep

942
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again thanks for listening.