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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are in

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Speaker 2: the world, it is so great to have you here.

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Speaker 2: Back for another episode as we, of course break down

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Speaker 2: the psychology of our twenties today, we are here to

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Speaker 2: talk about our families, to talk about parents and family

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Speaker 2: dynamics and how they change in our twenties, or more specifically,

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Speaker 2: I think, how they really begin to reveal themselves to

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Speaker 2: us as we further into this decade. For many of us,

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Speaker 2: you know, family is supposed to be the source of

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Speaker 2: unconditional love and loyalty and support, and it's meant to

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Speaker 2: be a safe haven. But what happens when that doesn't

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Speaker 2: really match up with our experience and why is it

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Speaker 2: that so many of us in our twenties really start

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Speaker 2: questioning the role our families play in our lives and

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Speaker 2: begin to unpack how they've shaped us for better, for

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Speaker 2: awful worse, and how they will continue to shape us,

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Speaker 2: So I really want to explore some of those common

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Speaker 2: struggles that come with having a family and having strange,

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Speaker 2: complicated parental dynamics and the nuances of it all. You know,

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Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting that it's not black and white.

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Speaker 2: It's not that you either completely hate your family you

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Speaker 2: want to be a strange from them, or you have

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Speaker 2: to completely love them. A lot of us exist in

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Speaker 2: the gray space in the middle. So why is that

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Speaker 2: the case? How do we navigate having complicated feelings towards family?

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Speaker 2: And of course I wanted to bring on an amazing

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Speaker 2: guest who is an expert on this to help us

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Speaker 2: rethink the boundaries, family expectations, all of the above. These

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Speaker 2: are very big, heavy topics, but they are so necessary.

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Speaker 2: So I want to welcome on Gwendolen Watson. Gwendolen, how

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Speaker 2: are you doing. Hi?

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing I'm

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Speaker 3: doing great. I this was the highlight of my day.

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Speaker 3: I was looking forward to this.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you. That always makes me feel very,

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Speaker 2: very happy. Just a little compliment to begin the episode. No,

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Speaker 2: none of the listeners have probably met you before. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they had, but so can you tell us a little

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Speaker 2: bit about yourself and how exactly you became well a

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Speaker 2: marriage and family therapist above all else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, Yeah, I love I love reflecting on my

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Speaker 3: journey to become a therapist because it's so aligned with

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Speaker 3: some of the themes that we're going to explore as well. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, I grew up in a family that had

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Speaker 3: a lot of dynamics. I was one of four kids.

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Speaker 3: My mom abstract painter, poet, you know, kind of very

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Speaker 3: expansive woman from England, and I grew up in America

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Speaker 3: and my dad was a tax lawyer from the South.

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Speaker 3: So just already like how did that happens? That's a

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Speaker 3: whole other podcast of how they mett Yeah, just growing

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Speaker 3: up in that environment of a lot of different perspectives

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Speaker 3: on values and life, and as a middle child. As

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you've explored in past episodes, a lot of

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Speaker 3: my development was around really noticing how to you know,

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Speaker 3: have certain reactions from people, noticing what brought about a

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Speaker 3: sense of joy, a sense of acceptance, and maybe what

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Speaker 3: things would bring about a sense of anxiety from my parents.

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Speaker 3: Part of that experience. Also, I'm an identical twin, I know, Oh.

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Speaker 2: My god, you're a middle child and an identical twin,

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Speaker 2: so you didn't even get to just be the only

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Speaker 2: middle child to someone else was identical. Oh my goodness, racious. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So my my journey into my twenties, I felt like

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Speaker 3: it was one of those first times of asking myself,

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Speaker 3: you know, like how do I feel about something? What

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Speaker 3: do I want? I studied art history and then jumped

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Speaker 3: from that and went into Google worked in business development

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Speaker 3: for almost a decade, and yet I found myself walking

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Speaker 3: through the corridors, like walking through the cubicles, kind of

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Speaker 3: keeping that that feeling of disconnection at Bay. I remember

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Speaker 3: one time I walked into an empty conference room and

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Speaker 3: found myself tearful and not knowing why. And it really

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Speaker 3: was that, like I was starting to get in touch

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Speaker 3: with this feeling of this isn't what I want my

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Speaker 3: life to be. In that process kind of got in

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Speaker 3: touch with the fact that my whole life I've been

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Speaker 3: serving some type of helping professional role. And I've always

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Speaker 3: been really curious relationships. I was a young kid curious

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Speaker 3: about my parents' relationship. I was a young kid like

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Speaker 3: trying to negotiate friendship struggles on the playground, and I

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Speaker 3: was like a very highly sensitive, attuned, emotionally attuned kid

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Speaker 3: and teen and young adult. So started to think about

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Speaker 3: I think being a therapist is actually more aligned with

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Speaker 3: what I want. And I remember calling my parents to

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Speaker 3: share with them that I was I was embarking on

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Speaker 3: this new journey, and in that moment, you know, I

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Speaker 3: was really ready for them to be on the same

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Speaker 3: page with me. And of course, as it happens, they

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Speaker 3: were in shock. They had a lot of anxiety. You know,

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Speaker 3: they had their a lot of their own stories of

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Speaker 3: raising kids with you know, some like professional uncertainty, my

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Speaker 3: dad's firm who was working for, like collapse and he

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Speaker 3: had a mortgage with three kids at the time. There's

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Speaker 3: just like these owns stories of their own experiences around

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Speaker 3: sudden career change that were coming up. I was like,

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Speaker 3: why would you like what like you're but you have

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Speaker 3: so much stability, like and you're so good at it,

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Speaker 3: like not there's no signs that you should change your career.

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Speaker 3: And in that conversation, you know, from their own anxiety,

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Speaker 3: they you know, they said they had strong reactions and

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Speaker 3: it was quite hurtful for me at the time. You know,

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Speaker 3: now we've we've moved through it and I can see

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Speaker 3: the two sides of the story. But in that moment,

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Speaker 3: you know, I just was shocked that something that felt

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Speaker 3: so beautiful to me was landing for them as so scary,

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Speaker 3: such a bad idea, definitely not what I should be doing,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like giving up that I was really

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Speaker 3: losing and giving up as opposed to opening and gaining

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Speaker 3: like a new chapter. So it was one of those

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Speaker 3: moments where I had to be at peace with even

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Speaker 3: though they're not on board, I'm on board, like I'm

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Speaker 3: on board with myself, and I can give them space

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Speaker 3: to come around. Like if this is true, if I'm

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Speaker 3: really becoming a therapist, not to please them or to

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Speaker 3: please anyone else, If this is really my vocation, then

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Speaker 3: I believe in myself to put in the work to

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Speaker 3: make it happen. So yeah, that was a long, long

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Speaker 3: winded answer. But now I'm in private practice. Now I've

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Speaker 3: had a couple different experiences as a therapist with different populations,

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Speaker 3: and I get to work with adults and couples and

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Speaker 3: families and support them in the navigation of relationships, which are,

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Speaker 3: as you said in your intro, so nuanced, so complex

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Speaker 3: and really I think the best catalyst for growth for

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Speaker 3: all of us as human beings.

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Speaker 2: That's a really beautiful start, and I think that it

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Speaker 2: ties really perfectly in with what we're talking about today,

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Speaker 2: which is doing what's best for you versus what your

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Speaker 2: family thinks is best for you, having not so much conflict,

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Speaker 2: but different opinions in families, disappointing your parents. But speaking

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Speaker 2: of family, why do you think so many of us

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Speaker 2: start really questioning the reality or what family should look

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Speaker 2: like in our twenties. What is it about our twenties

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Speaker 2: that really makes us start reconsidering how we were raised,

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Speaker 2: how we grew up, and maybe some of the resentment

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Speaker 2: around that as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean again, this is assuming that you

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Speaker 3: lived with your family of origin the whole time and

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Speaker 3: then kind of left home in your twenties, which I

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Speaker 3: know isn't the case for everyone, but assuming that progression,

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Speaker 3: it can be. You know, when you're living in an environment,

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Speaker 3: the ability to question what's happening, there isn't always space

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Speaker 3: for that. That takes a pretty secure and strong, safe

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Speaker 3: environment to be able to outwardly name and question certain

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Speaker 3: patterns or certain behaviors or certain values that are happening

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Speaker 3: within a family system. So in your twenties, once you're

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Speaker 3: left home, there's literally the oxygen to pause and say,

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Speaker 3: hold on a second, like, what are the values that

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Speaker 3: really aligned for me?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: And sometimes there's this beautiful quote that I love for

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Speaker 3: ACT therapy, which is acceptance and commitment therapy, which says,

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Speaker 3: in our pain, we find our values, and in our values,

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Speaker 3: we find our pain. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: twenty in your being in your twenties is that invitation

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Speaker 3: where you have the space, you often have the time

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Speaker 3: to pause and say, what did I experience that did

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Speaker 3: have pain that maybe at the time I minimized or

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Speaker 3: know kind of brushed away or repressed or just didn't

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Speaker 3: even notice, just thought it was just kind of normal.

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Speaker 3: What did I experience that had some pain connected to it?

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Speaker 3: And what does that tell me about what I really

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Speaker 3: care about? Some of our values are adopted and kind

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Speaker 3: of carried forth down the generation from our families of

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Speaker 3: origin and down the generations, and some of them are

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Speaker 3: in reaction to or kind of like a renewed value

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Speaker 3: that is in contrast to values that we were raised with.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm going on a little bit of

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Speaker 3: a tangent myself, but I think that in your twenties

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Speaker 3: there's there's actually that space to pause and to reflect

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Speaker 3: and something that I also love thinking about for folks

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Speaker 3: in their twenties, we talk a lot about you know,

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Speaker 3: you've probably heard a lot on social media and just

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Speaker 3: if you're in your own therapy, you're inner child. And

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Speaker 3: I love introducing the concept alongside your inner child of

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Speaker 3: your inner team who's like a freaking badass and and

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Speaker 3: wants to question things and wants to you know, like

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Speaker 3: kind of like isn't afraid to maybe disrupt the status

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Speaker 3: quo or to push back about things. And your twenties

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Speaker 3: is kind of the first time when you get to

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Speaker 3: integrate your enter team because you're not you know, you're

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Speaker 3: not living your teen years. You're able to kind of

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Speaker 3: feel into that that team side, that hold on a

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Speaker 3: second side, right, they're like what do I care about?

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Speaker 3: When do I want to speak up side? But that

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Speaker 3: it's not kind of ruling the ship the same way

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Speaker 3: that you know that you're living that in your teens,

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Speaker 3: but you're also dealing with all the things you're dealing

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Speaker 3: with in your teens. So your twenties there's a way

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Speaker 3: to kind of feel into that and kind of integrate,

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Speaker 3: like what part of me is in touch with my

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Speaker 3: values and maybe what part of me is a little

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Speaker 3: bit of my inner team, like just wanting to have

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Speaker 3: fun or wanting to make mistakes or wanting to do

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Speaker 3: something off the cuff and spontaneous and against what people

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Speaker 3: expect of me. And so yeah, I think the twenties

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Speaker 3: it's a beautiful, beautiful time that there's so much space

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Speaker 3: for all of that. But it is it's a really

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Speaker 3: unique time to you know, I say, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: like you're giving birth to yourself, that you're allowing yourself

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Speaker 3: to come into your adulthood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like, wow, that's all coming up

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Speaker 2: and you're having what is a really huge transformation into adulthood. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you have the oxygen to look at your family differently,

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Speaker 2: like you have the breathing room. And you also start

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Speaker 2: to talk to other people about their experiences as well,

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Speaker 2: and I think become a bit more independently educated about

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Speaker 2: what may have benefited you more, what family dynamics maybe

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Speaker 2: should have looked like. And with that that can bring

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Speaker 2: up the resentment of as well of why didn't I

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Speaker 2: have the childhood like that, was that not meant to? Like?

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Speaker 2: Was I actually not meant to be treated that way?

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Speaker 2: And a big question, which you talked about before, is

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Speaker 2: the push towards individualization. And I think a big question

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Speaker 2: around becoming an individual is how would I do that differently?

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Speaker 2: You know, my parents set an example, but as an individual,

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Speaker 2: how would I have done that differently? And how will

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Speaker 2: I do it differently in my own life with my friends,

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Speaker 2: with my kids, with my family. And sometimes that brings

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Speaker 2: up some heavy stuff when you begin to really realize

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Speaker 2: the ways you've perhaps maybe been let down, hurt by

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Speaker 2: your parents or family, maybe disappointed in the past. What

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Speaker 2: kind of reactions do you think people tend to have,

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Speaker 2: because it's a very hard realization. I think whether you

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Speaker 2: have it as a teenager or as a in your twenties, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: my family is a perfect and I'm just going to

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Speaker 2: have to live with that. What are some of the

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Speaker 2: reactions we initially tend to have towards that realization?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think you named it with that,

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Speaker 3: that experience of it's kind of an experience of grief

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Speaker 3: and of loss, like a loss of what you wish

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Speaker 3: you had had, and with grief with any type of

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Speaker 3: processing loss, Like the reactions really run the gamut, right,

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Speaker 3: like that it is so individual. For some people, it

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Speaker 3: might be that feeling of you know, a feeling of anger,

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Speaker 3: of irritation, or of sadness. You know, I do a

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Speaker 3: lot with parts work, so kind of thinking about the

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Speaker 3: different parts of yourself, and I think when you're talking

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Speaker 3: about integrating a story of what happened in my past

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Speaker 3: and how do I feel about it, my approach is

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Speaker 3: always to make space for all the different parts of

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Speaker 3: you and how all the different parts of you might feel.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: There might be kind of an intellectual wise part that says,

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Speaker 3: you know, while like this is the way that I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna you know, think about it, like clearly X y

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Speaker 3: Z happened, and kind of uses intellectualization to find a narrative.

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Speaker 3: And there might be that you know, that inner you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe boundaried or angry part that really just wants to

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Speaker 3: be in touch with anger and be in touch with

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Speaker 3: like that wasn't fair. Sometimes that anger part is connected

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Speaker 3: to a sense of justice like it shouldn't have been

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Speaker 3: that way. And there's often a young part that is

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Speaker 3: in touch with fear or yeah, just you know, fear

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Speaker 3: or shut down or just quite quiet, you know, sitting

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Speaker 3: in the quietness of an experience. And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: I get I get this question from clients sometimes like

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Speaker 3: am I supposed to feel this? Or how should I feel?

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Speaker 3: And I always want to invite you know, actually, there

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Speaker 3: are so many parts of you that are experiencing this

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Speaker 3: processing of what family means or what happened that I

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Speaker 3: wish hadn't happened. So how can we actually make space

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Speaker 3: for all of those parts of you? And notice if

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Speaker 3: one part and one side of you is really holding

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Speaker 3: the microphone no pun intended, as we hold our microphones

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Speaker 3: with one side of you, I does. If one side

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Speaker 3: of you is really speaking quite loud, let's give it

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Speaker 3: that space. Let's let it air out how it felt.

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Speaker 3: But let's also notice the other sides of you that

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Speaker 3: maybe have something to say as well. Yeah, soste, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: go ahead.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I was just gonna say, like, I think

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Speaker 2: anger and grief are like the two big ones, and

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Speaker 2: like anger and grief are the two big ones that

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Speaker 2: are very hard to process. And I've often found that

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Speaker 2: if you just ignore them and you say to yourself,

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Speaker 2: I have no right to be angry or I need

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Speaker 2: to put away this anger and just pretend like everything

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Speaker 2: is normal. And that's very relevant, especially around the holidays

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Speaker 2: when we're recording this. That does not make it better,

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Speaker 2: and that does not make it more bearable because you're

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Speaker 2: still minimizing. You're still minimizing for other people. Right, any

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Speaker 2: like emotional reaction you're having to being disappointed by your

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Speaker 2: family or disappointing your family is a reaction that I

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Speaker 2: think needs to has a full life cycle. Right, there's

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Speaker 2: a birth of it normally, like when you are a

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Speaker 2: child or when you're a teenager. Then there is the

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Speaker 2: life of it when you're really really feeling that emotion,

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Speaker 2: and eventually the emotion might die or it might become

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Speaker 2: a bit weaker, more fragile. Sometimes that does take time.

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Speaker 2: But also you can't put it into a box and

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Speaker 2: expect that it's not going to want to break out.

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Speaker 2: So I really like what you're saying, Like you need

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Speaker 2: to give space for every single reaction that you're feeling

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Speaker 2: towards your nuanced family dynamics. When when it's the case

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Speaker 2: that you still have to be you know, be present

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Speaker 2: with your family obviously, don't you might not want to

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Speaker 2: cut them off. You know, especially around the holidays, there's

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Speaker 2: a big conversation of people being like I have to go.

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Speaker 2: I'm going home for Christmas, and I just know that

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Speaker 2: this stuff is going to come up. I'm predicting that,

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Speaker 2: like I'm probably going to fall back into old patterns

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Speaker 2: with my family. How do you navigate that? How do

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Speaker 2: you make sure that you're still like looking forward and

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Speaker 2: looking to heal rast perhaps back in the same environment

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Speaker 2: that caused you the paid in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess I want to name that.

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Speaker 3: Even the word family means so many different things for

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Speaker 3: so many different people, right, And that although there is

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Speaker 3: a quite common experience of when we're back with our

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Speaker 3: families of origin, we suddenly find ourselves like feeling fifteen

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Speaker 3: again or feeling quite young, like you know when to end.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even me like peaking at forty, Like the

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Speaker 3: same thing happens to me, Like I Thanksgiving, I was like, God,

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Speaker 3: I just I really just feel like a fifteen year

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Speaker 3: old again. So like that felt experience is psychologically normal.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I'll surphrase it like it's a shared

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Speaker 3: experience that a lot of people have. And you know,

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Speaker 3: going home to family there. It's such a spectrum, So

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Speaker 3: I want to I want to I guess I want

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Speaker 3: to offer empathy to folks who are listening to this

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Speaker 3: conversation that for some people, you might be going back

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Speaker 3: to family where you know there are we don't get

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Speaker 3: to choose who our parents are. You know, it is

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Speaker 3: possible that you have parents that, for their own reasons

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Speaker 3: and their own things that they're struggling with, have consistent

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Speaker 3: and character logical ways of dismissing or hurting you physically

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Speaker 3: or psychologically. And there's other people who going back to family,

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Speaker 3: you know, they're going back to parents who are trying

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Speaker 3: their best and still disappointing. Right that might be showing

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Speaker 3: love through their like only know how to show loves

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Speaker 3: through anxiety or no, only know how to show love

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Speaker 3: through criticizing, And then it's intentional to say that they

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Speaker 3: love you, but in actuality like they're telling you why

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Speaker 3: are you wearing that Christmas dinner? And it's like really, job,

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Speaker 3: like exactly have you not yet? Yeah? I can't believe

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Speaker 3: you broke up with that person. They were the only

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Speaker 3: person who cared about you, you know, like there's yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm wanting to normalize the spectrum right and say that

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Speaker 3: although there's a common experience of going to the home

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Speaker 3: for the holidays, like you know your truth, you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, like, am I dealing with a family that's

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Speaker 3: rough around the edges and imperfect in the way that

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Speaker 3: humans are imperfect? Or did I grow up in an

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Speaker 3: environment where when I turn home, I really have to

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Speaker 3: be cautious around what it means to navigate safety and

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Speaker 3: navigate this moment. Of course, some people by that if

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Speaker 3: they really are returning to homes where they've seen a

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Speaker 3: long enough pattern of you know, whether it's humulation or

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Speaker 3: being put down or really just feeling that like intentionality

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Speaker 3: of power and control, they might not be going home

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Speaker 3: for the holidays. They might be finding chosen friends and

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Speaker 3: chosen family to be engaging in the holidays with. But

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Speaker 3: I guess what I offer to my clients is pausing

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Speaker 3: to think about what do you want and what do

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Speaker 3: you need for me? Whenever there's times when I'm going

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Speaker 3: home for the holidays and there's certain things that are

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Speaker 3: quite sensitive, Like it feels kind of like soft belly

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Speaker 3: type of yeah, like a soft belly up sensitivity. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if that metaphor makes sense, but I might

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Speaker 3: say that what I need is to not discuss the

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Speaker 3: certain things that I know, like are quite that I'm

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Speaker 3: quite protective around, you know, So I have that awareness

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Speaker 3: in advance, and if people are bringing it up or

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00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: asking me about that, you know, I'll kind of respond

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Speaker 3: with with kindness, but just say like thanks for asking,

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Speaker 3: I'm not ready to talk about that or you know today,

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Speaker 3: and I don't have the space to talk about that today.

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Speaker 3: So I kind of have in advance. I've kind of prepared,

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Speaker 3: like what do I need for my own heart and

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Speaker 3: soul to have that boundary? And what do I also

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00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 3: need for my own body? You know? For me personally,

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00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 3: I can't drink alcohol around the holidays because I am

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Speaker 3: a quite emotionally open person and if I have even

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Speaker 3: half of a drink around families who then say a

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00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: comment that they mean well, but lands's criticism, I flood

380
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Speaker 3: much more easily. So like I'm also thinking about my

381
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Speaker 3: own body, like what do I need for my own

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Speaker 3: body that I can't negotiate? And then outside of that

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Speaker 3: is the wants, like what do I want for the holidays?

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Speaker 3: Of course, I want to laugh and connect with my

385
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Speaker 3: siblings and with my parents, and I definitely want there

386
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Speaker 3: to be moments of shared vulnerability. Those might happen, they

387
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,719
Speaker 3: might not, you know, so helping differentiate between like our

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Speaker 3: wish kind of like our wishless like our wants, our hopes,

389
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 3: and then our needs, like where are the places that

390
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Speaker 3: I really want to prioritize the boundaries and my energy

391
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Speaker 3: around supporting myself with those boundaries and one of the

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Speaker 3: other things that are more about me experiencing the the

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Speaker 3: You know, there's moments in the holidays where we have

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00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 3: that feeling of disappointment because we had high expectations or

395
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 3: high hopes for what it might look like and it

396
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: maybe it looks a little bit differently, And those are

397
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: kind of the wants, like did I want to have

398
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 3: this really heart to heart meaningful conversation with so and

399
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: so on Christmas morning?

400
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Speaker 2: Maybe?

401
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 3: And maybe it didn't happen this year, but maybe it'll

402
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 3: be another year. So that's yeah, that helps me differentiate

403
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 3: between what to really put my energy behind.

404
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Speaker 2: I love the idea of having like a wish list

405
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Speaker 2: for your family Christmas or your family holiday. My other

406
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: thing is that I go in with really low expectations,

407
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: really really low expectations. Yeah, and I also make sure

408
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 2: that I have first say, I know what I don't

409
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: want to talk about with my family, but I'm back home,

410
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 2: and I actually I know it sounds like it's so simple,

411
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: but I really do say like I'm not talking about

412
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: it this please and thank you, Like I'm not going

413
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 2: to talk about that with you. There's and if we

414
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: do like I'm gonna leave. Sorry, bye, I'm gonna leave.

415
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 2: So you can either have my company or you can

416
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: have your answer to this question, which one would you

417
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: like more? And the other thing I do is I

418
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: have like a little bit of an escape. I have

419
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Speaker 2: a huge family, and yeah, huge family. It's a big,

420
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: complicated situation. So I also know that I need like

421
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Speaker 2: my own time and space to get away from it,

422
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Speaker 2: otherwise I will literally explode. We're gonna take a little

423
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Speaker 2: bit of a break, but that I want to talk

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00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: about how we can communicate the ways in which our

425
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: parents or our family have disappointed us in the past.

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Speaker 2: After this short break, alrighty, we are back with Gwen.

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Speaker 2: So this is a complicated question that I get asked

428
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Speaker 2: a lot. How do you ring up the times in

429
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: which your family has disappointed you in the past or

430
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: hurt you. Is it worth even bringing it up in

431
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: your twenties or should you just not say anything and

432
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: just go on and build your own life and know

433
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: that you can't hear what's been broken in that well? Basically,

434
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: what is the best alternative to navigating a past situation

435
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: that you feel is still holding weight for you where

436
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: you feel you want to say something about it?

437
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, what you're talking about is like

438
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: how to have What I'm hearing in the question is

439
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 3: how to have a repair conversation. I think that there's

440
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: when people are saying they want to share, there's a hope,

441
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 3: there's a hope that they'll feel seen and that there

442
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 3: will be a feeling of accountability or of empathy for

443
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: what you experienced. So whenever there's a repair conversation, the

444
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: first question is, you know kind of like the are

445
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 3: both sides ready? And I think what's really challenging is

446
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: sometimes you're ready for that conversation, and whether it's a

447
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 3: parent or a sibling, they might not be ready for

448
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 3: many reasons. Right. It might not be they might be

449
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: going through something really stressful in their life. There might

450
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: just not be in the right mindset, and so sometimes

451
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: the first question is how can I tolerate my readiness

452
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: while the other person isn't yet ready? And so if

453
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 3: that's the case, and I rarely think it rarely works

454
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: when when that type of conversation is forced, you know,

455
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 3: when it's like I need to have it. So we're

456
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: having this conversation when there's that feeling of it's happening.

457
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: Now people come in defensive and that feeling of being seen.

458
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: It's just there.

459
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: There's a lower chance, let's put it that way, there's

460
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: a lower chance happening definitely. So if if the other person, oh,

461
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: did I cut you off?

462
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 2: No?

463
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: No, okay, if the other person isn't ready, then the

464
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: question is how can I have this conversation, you know,

465
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: in in therapy or with people who are going to listen.

466
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 3: For some clients I've done, you know, writing letters, letters

467
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: to themselves, like writing letters to their past selves, different

468
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: like creative expressions that it's not the same thing, but

469
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: it helps them tolerate that difference, that like that waiting

470
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: period of this other person isn't ready yet, and and

471
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: also tolerate the fact that there's no guarantee you know,

472
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: the other person might not ever be ready. There are

473
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: some parents who say, you know, the past is the past.

474
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: I don't want to go back there, right, And so

475
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: that's unfortunately that that that's part of relationships is that

476
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: we we only have control over us naming what we're

477
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: wanting and what we're needing, and we can't always control

478
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: the other person wanting to engage. But if you have

479
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: a sense, you know that they're naming things like I

480
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: want to deepen my relationship with you, or you're feeling

481
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: really distant, like I'm wanting to kind of form our

482
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: adult our adult relationship of a parent child relationship. Then

483
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: starting by just naming, you know, kind of your intention

484
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: for the conversation. A lot of parents are avoid conversations

485
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 3: like that because there's an anxiety and there's a pain

486
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 3: around the fact that you can't change the past. So

487
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: if there's a naming of hey mom or hey dad,

488
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: I want to share my experience because I want to

489
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 3: have an authentic connection with you. I want you to

490
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: know what I went through and I understand that you

491
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: can't change the past. I really kind of I'm just

492
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: hoping to feel seen and feel heard by the person

493
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 3: that I had this experience with that can kind of

494
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: create a foundation for a deeper empathetic conversation, like maybe

495
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 3: more success. There also are a lot of people who

496
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: have these conversations in therapy. I'm more and more that

497
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: I'm seeing a couple therapists who are also supporting parent

498
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 3: child diads. So like holding the space of a two

499
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 3: persons conversation with adult children, because a lot of adult

500
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: children have stuff they want to talk about, and a

501
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: lot of parents are feeling a little confused and sometimes

502
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: bewildered that they don't understand why this energy is coming

503
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: from their adult child and they want support figuring it out.

504
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: So there are lots of different spaces for these types

505
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 3: of conversations. But I would say, yeah, like may being

506
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 3: your intention and then knowing that like your parent might

507
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: be quite surprised, they might be kind of a little

508
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: caught off guard, and it might be multiple iterations of

509
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 3: this type of conversation. I will share from my personal

510
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: experience that I had conversations like this with my dad

511
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: when I was in my twenties and he was you know,

512
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: he was the breadwinner, he was working a lot. There

513
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: was four kids and a family. So some of the

514
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 3: things that I wished he had understood was what it

515
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: was like to have a parent who was contributing a

516
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: ton but not physically or very emotionally present, and how

517
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: there was that feeling of loss around that, and every

518
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: time I tried in my twenties to express this it

519
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: came off critical. He was kind of like, WTF, Like,

520
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: I like, you know, I gave you so much. I

521
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: tried my best, like and it never it just created

522
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: more disconnection. And then during the pandemic it's being forced

523
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: to be on zoom, we started having like zoom chats

524
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: where it was finally at the right time and place

525
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: for us to have that conversation, and it was really

526
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: really beautiful, you know. He shared authentically and tearfully about

527
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 3: what it was like to be on client calls while

528
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: he was hearing me me and my sister be sung

529
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: Happy Birthday and blow out of birthday candles and he

530
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 3: was being pulled in and had to miss that. And

531
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: I shared authentically about how it really felt like my

532
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: focus was on my mom and I didn't have a

533
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: focus on my dad, and how that lack of connection,

534
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 3: like I didn't feel connected to him, and that was

535
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 3: like really weird to just be connecting in my adult

536
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: life with him.

537
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: And.

538
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 3: We both leaned into it with a lot of honesty

539
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 3: and authenticity, and it was clumsy, but now I can

540
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: really say like we're building something I knew that I

541
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,479
Speaker 3: never thought would happen. It's quite it just has its

542
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 3: own beauty and it's a new chapter. So it took

543
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 3: us a lot of time to get to that. And

544
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: I guess that's what I want to normalize, is that

545
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: sometimes it's both people have to live more life until

546
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 3: the conversations can happen that go the way you want.

547
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: I really I think that's a really beautiful reminder you

548
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: have to live more life before you can have the

549
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: conversations you want to have. And I really appreciate that

550
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 2: you said at the beginning, you can't have this conversation,

551
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: this repair conversation, unless both people are ready, and I

552
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: guess also unless you know what you want to get

553
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: out of it, right, because sometimes if you go to

554
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: a parent and you're like, all I want is an apology,

555
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: you might not get that. And so if that's I think,

556
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: going into a repair conversation, you have to want something

557
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: that you'd be ok with them not being able to

558
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: give you. In a way, so you have to be

559
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: okay with them, maybe not apologizing, maybe not being able

560
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: to say, yeah, I totally messed up there, because I

561
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: think maybe ninety percent of the time a parent isn't

562
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: going to say yeah, I messed up, because that's not

563
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: how like human ego works. And for you know, being

564
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 2: a parent is sometimes the biggest thing that anyone's done

565
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: in their life. I think it's the biggest thing that

566
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 2: most people do in their life, raising a child, raising

567
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: your family, And so you know, they don't want to

568
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: acknowledge that they were maybe a failure at that thing,

569
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: even though you're sitting across with them saying like this

570
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: hurt me, this was painful. All I want from you

571
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: is to acknowledge it. Giving that up is means giving

572
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: up a sense of accomplishment for them and a sense

573
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: of pride as well. I also think that when you

574
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: talk about both people need to be ready. I think

575
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: about emotionally immature parents for whom that's going to happen,

576
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: like there is never going to be an acknowledgment from them.

577
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: They're probably never going to be ready. I've seen it

578
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: so many times with people who you know parents have

579
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: passed away, and they've never had the conversations. So I

580
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: like that you've offered this alternative. If there is a

581
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: way to give yourself closure, There is a way to

582
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 2: take everything that you've experienced and not need the acknowledgment

583
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: of the person who's perhaps caused it. You just need

584
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,959
Speaker 2: to acknowledge it yourself and find and find a way

585
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: to you know, make it part of your story, but

586
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 2: not the defining part. So how do you think that

587
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 2: we can find closure ourselves if we maybe aren't speaking

588
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: to our families, if we have emotionally immature parents, if

589
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: a parent has passed away and the effects are still there.

590
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: How can we bring about closure when it comes to

591
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: complicated family dynamics for ourselves.

592
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean they Yeah, it's such a good question.

593
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: I I'll just to name the with the dynamic of

594
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: emotionally immature parents, I like to think about like there's

595
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 3: some parents who, as you're saying, like just aren't interested

596
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: in in that level of growth. And there's also some

597
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 3: parents who want it but are in their own prop

598
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: like it just catching up, like they're playing like way

599
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 3: catch up, you know, So kind of like differentiating between

600
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 3: parents who aren't interested in authentic, vulnerable relationships where there's

601
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 3: a safety to be honesty and the parents who really

602
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 3: want that but are just kind of like in kindergarten,

603
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: like they're like they're like playing catch up and they're

604
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: you know that it's kind of if you can hold

605
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 3: that like, Wow, they're they're doing They're doing the emotional

606
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: growth that I started when I was in my twenties,

607
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 3: but they're starting in their.

608
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: Six seventy, you know.

609
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 3: So I do believe in the human spirit, when the

610
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: human spirit wants growth, that it can happen at any age.

611
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 3: But as you said, there are some people who just

612
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 3: aren't interested in in that shift and that that's their choice, right.

613
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 3: So to your question, you know, I find that I

614
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 3: really really believe in the power of healing in relationship,

615
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: and it doesn't always happen in It doesn't always happen

616
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 3: the healing that you want to happen with maybe your

617
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: parent might end up happening in other relationships, So that

618
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 3: that kind of broadening the view of you know, when

619
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about what was the wound, what was the

620
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: dynamic that happened in between you and your parent, and

621
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: what was the underlying wound? Maybe it was your parent,

622
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: you know, telling you how you should think or how

623
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: you should feel, and so listening for that theme as

624
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: it's coming up in other relationships, maybe with a manager

625
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 3: at work or maybe with you know, a friend or

626
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 3: an intimate partner. I'm seeing what it's like to sign

627
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: your voice, to name your truth and to navigate, you know,

628
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: that that dynamic with someone where maybe they have a

629
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: little bit more space to to to hear you and

630
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: to see you. So you know, although you know, I

631
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: wouldn't I wouldn't recommend like seeking out, you know, although

632
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 3: this happens like seeking out a like a parallel relationship

633
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 3: and you know, kind of enacting like the enacting what

634
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: didn't happen with your parents and enacting it in all

635
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: future romantic relationships. I think when there's a consciousness around it,

636
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: like what are your wounds and when you see those

637
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: things show up with the right people who want to

638
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 3: be holding that space of really understanding where you're coming from,

639
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 3: you can have really really healing moments where they offer

640
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 3: correctional experience. Sometimes that happens in therapy, sometimes that happens

641
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 3: in other relationships. But I would say knowing, yeah, knowing

642
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: your themes know your wounds, like know what needs didn't

643
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 3: get met, and listen and notice for one that's showing up.

644
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 3: I do really believe that there's a way that you

645
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: talked about, like the life cycle of an emotion, there's

646
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 3: a life cycle of stories that like they make themes

647
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 3: come back up, and when they come up, we have

648
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: an opportunity to give ourselves the space and the power

649
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 3: or the compassion or the backbone or the softness that

650
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 3: we wish we had experienced in the past. There's this

651
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 3: beautiful phrase that I love, which is wherever you go,

652
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 3: there you are. And so I think it's the same

653
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: with relationships. You know, whatever happened in past relationships that

654
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 3: didn't get to be fully resolved, fully metabolized, it's going

655
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 3: to show up again, and this time you might have

656
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: a little more wisdom, a little more tolerance, and the

657
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 3: person might have a little bit more space for that

658
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: experience to unfold in a very different way. So yeah,

659
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: I'd say have faith and what it looks like to

660
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 3: continue to practice authentic, vulnerable relationships for yourself and with others.

661
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: Even if you can't do that with your family, like

662
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 2: you said, you can do that with friends. You can

663
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: do that with mentors. You can do that with partners, boyfriends, girlfriends.

664
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: One of the big things for me that I think

665
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: is so healing if you can't have those conversations in

666
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 2: that closure really with family is being able to say, well,

667
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 2: that's not going to be passed on and that's not

668
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: going to be how their relationships work. No one is

669
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 2: hopefully going to come to them at sixty and say,

670
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: you know, you cause me this hurt, you cause me

671
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: this pain. There is a lot of closure, I think

672
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 2: in healing yourself and in breaking the generational chain and

673
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: saying all that work that they were maybe unable to do,

674
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: I have now done it. And so it's kind of

675
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: like cutting off the head of a disease, right if

676
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: perhaps you know whatever it was that has been passed

677
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: down through your lineage, because often the way that your

678
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: parents or your family has interacted with you is the

679
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: way that their families interacted with them. Even if you

680
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: don't have children, right, knowing that your relationships, you know,

681
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: your personal relationships won't have this dynamic. The relationships you

682
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 2: have with nieces and nephews won't have this dynamic. The

683
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: relationship that you have with your partner won't reflect that

684
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 2: that maybe your parents had in their marriage. Like that

685
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 2: is an incredibly healing thing. So I have one more

686
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: question to ask you, and it doesn't even have to

687
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: do with family. It's just something we ask every single guest,

688
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 2: which is, if you had one piece of advice, a

689
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: bullet point piece of advice for someone in their twenties,

690
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 2: what would it be like?

691
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: Take it one step at a time, you know what,

692
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 3: one day at a time. Even with what you were

693
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: naming about not wanting to repeat generational trauma, like, we

694
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 3: each make one chain, like small changes in the in

695
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 3: the patterns of the families that we are born into

696
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: and future generations, whether those are relationships or our own

697
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: biological or raised children, future generations are going to make

698
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: little shifts that that we don't have to do it all,

699
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: but we can be proud of what we are doing.

700
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, little changes. I like that.

701
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful piece of advice to end things with. Gwen.

702
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: I want to thank you so much for coming on

703
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: to talk about a pretty deep, meaningful, vulnerable conversation and

704
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: a vulnerable topic. Where can the listeners find you? How

705
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: can they learn more about your work?

706
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, my website is www dot Gwendolynwatson dot com

707
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 3: and I'm on LinkedIn posting about mental health, parenting, emotions,

708
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: all the stuff that we think doesn't get discussed in

709
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 3: corporate environments. I'm doing it on LinkedIn, so feel free

710
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: to connect with me there and yeah, continue the conversation.

711
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Everything will be linked in the episode description as always,

712
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: And I just want to thank you guys for listening

713
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: to this episode. If this is something that you're really

714
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 2: dealing with this holiday period, oh my goodness, you are

715
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: not alone. You are not alone, and there are so

716
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 2: many amazing resources out there as well that I'll also

717
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: leave in the episode description. Make sure that you are

718
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 2: following along and that you give the show a five

719
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: star review. Wherever you are listening, you can also continue

720
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: the conversation. If you have thoughts, feelings about this episode,

721
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: you can DM me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast

722
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: And we're taking further episode suggestions, but until next time,

723
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: it stays safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself, and

724
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 2: we will talk very very soon