WEBVTT - Blade Runner with Michael Phillips | Archive 0:00:21.285 --> 0:00:26.114 Filmspotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all-you-can-watch movie subscription 0:00:26.174 --> 0:00:29.135 pass that pays for itself in just two visits. See 0:00:29.255 --> 0:00:33.764 any standard 2D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions. 0:00:34.205 --> 0:00:36.084 Sign up now on the Regal app or at the 0:00:36.125 --> 0:00:40.154 link in our description and use code FILMSPOT26 to receive 15% off. 0:00:45.864 --> 0:00:47.804 What kind of a show are you guys putting on 0:00:47.845 --> 0:00:48.365 here today? 0:00:48.465 --> 0:00:49.865 You're not interested in art? No. 0:00:50.105 --> 0:00:51.644 Well, look, we're going to do this thing. We're going 0:00:51.665 --> 0:00:52.614 to have a conversation. 0:00:55.315 --> 0:00:59.635 It is Archive Drop Wednesday. Ridley Scott has a new 0:00:59.694 --> 0:01:05.155 movie coming out, Josh. The Dog stars in theaters. And 0:01:05.295 --> 0:01:09.634 this is a post-apocalyptic tale with Jacob Elordi, Josh Brolin, 0:01:09.675 --> 0:01:12.955 Margaret Qualley. Sounds a little dystopian, whether it's dystopian or not. 0:01:13.935 --> 0:01:17.134 We're thinking Ridley Scott. Why not dip into the archive 0:01:17.175 --> 0:01:21.885 and pull out something from that filmmaker? And we've got 0:01:21.905 --> 0:01:25.584 Blade Runner 2017. We did a Sacred Cow review of 0:01:25.664 --> 0:01:30.204 that film. We also have coming up, and I know 0:01:30.244 --> 0:01:32.895 we're both doing a little bit of homework, a Ridley 0:01:32.955 --> 0:01:34.635 Scott draft. 0:01:35.074 --> 0:01:35.615 That's right. 0:01:35.895 --> 0:01:38.715 I don't want to divulge anything about our draft strategies, 0:01:38.774 --> 0:01:41.755 but don't you think Blade Runner is a pretty obvious 0:01:42.535 --> 0:01:44.145 number two pick in that draft? 0:01:45.444 --> 0:01:49.745 Probably. I'm assuming you're assuming alien goes first. I am. 0:01:50.245 --> 0:01:53.025 And, um, but Roxanne is a wild card. 0:01:53.445 --> 0:01:54.805 I know. I was just going to say, we are 0:01:54.845 --> 0:01:58.124 going to have a guest with us, Roxanna Haddadi from vulture. 0:01:58.545 --> 0:02:02.535 And what's fun about doing guests is we're not always 0:02:02.675 --> 0:02:05.555 quite certain of what their particular taste is, especially when 0:02:05.575 --> 0:02:09.454 it comes to a filmmaker's entire career. So yeah, depending 0:02:09.495 --> 0:02:12.635 on where she lands in the order. And if she 0:02:12.755 --> 0:02:17.055 has an idiosyncratic pick that could throw things for a loop, 0:02:17.235 --> 0:02:20.035 I tend to think at least between the two of us, yeah, 0:02:20.135 --> 0:02:23.815 Blade Runner, Alien 1 and 2. But we'll see what happens. 0:02:24.195 --> 0:02:24.595 We will. 0:02:24.755 --> 0:02:28.945 And from September 2017, here is our Sacred Cow review 0:02:29.385 --> 0:02:29.845 of Blade Runner. 0:02:30.245 --> 0:02:33.125 They jumped the shuttle off-world, killed the crew and passengers. 0:02:33.484 --> 0:02:36.725 They found the shuttle drifting off the coast two weeks ago, so. 0:02:36.644 --> 0:02:37.305 We know they're around. 0:02:39.945 --> 0:02:40.525 Embarrassing. 0:02:41.375 --> 0:02:43.334 No, sir, not embarrassing, because no one's ever going to 0:02:43.394 --> 0:02:45.794 find out they're down here. Because you're going to spot them, 0:02:45.815 --> 0:02:46.595 and you're going to air them out. 0:02:47.445 --> 0:02:52.264 I don't work here anymore. Give it to Holden. He's good. 0:02:52.924 --> 0:02:55.465 I did. He can breathe okay, as long as nobody 0:02:55.525 --> 0:02:56.024 unplugs him. 0:02:56.805 --> 0:03:00.584 The film Blade Runner survives in several different versions, and point-by-point, 0:03:00.725 --> 0:03:05.044 replicant-by-replicant comparisons between the eight cuts, most of which are 0:03:05.065 --> 0:03:09.144 actually available today, they've fueled many a Comic-Con conversation today. 0:03:09.454 --> 0:03:12.975 and countless film nerd arguments since the first version was 0:03:13.014 --> 0:03:16.954 released to mainstream bafflement and disappointing box office figures back 0:03:16.995 --> 0:03:20.094 in June 1982, when I was 21 years old. That 0:03:20.195 --> 0:03:23.635 same day in June, John Carpenter's remake of The Thing 0:03:23.695 --> 0:03:26.245 came out, too, and both those films have grown in 0:03:26.294 --> 0:03:28.285 stature over the years. That's kind of an obvious point, 0:03:28.294 --> 0:03:30.645 but it's true, and you can find plenty of fans 0:03:30.665 --> 0:03:33.005 who would pick either The Thing or Blade Runner, very 0:03:33.044 --> 0:03:36.065 different brands of science fiction, as their number one film 0:03:36.445 --> 0:03:39.714 of that year, 1982, whether they were born then or not. 0:03:40.235 --> 0:03:42.314 Blade Runner comes from the Philip K. Dick story, Do 0:03:42.475 --> 0:03:45.695 Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? And even those who didn't 0:03:45.815 --> 0:03:48.655 care much about the film version, directed by Ridley Scott, 0:03:49.035 --> 0:03:52.535 they had to acknowledge the density and fascination of the 0:03:52.755 --> 0:03:55.715 visual quality of the film, the production design, the effects, 0:03:55.875 --> 0:03:58.795 and the overall atmosphere. This was Los Angeles in the 0:03:58.815 --> 0:04:05.085 year 2019. Perpetual rain falling, miserable crowding, huge looming video 0:04:05.105 --> 0:04:07.625 billboards that, well, actually did come to pass more or 0:04:07.665 --> 0:04:11.295 less by 2017. more so than the flying cars. Blade 0:04:11.335 --> 0:04:13.535 Runner Deckard, played by Harrison Ford, who may or may 0:04:13.595 --> 0:04:15.825 not be a replicant himself, depending on the version of 0:04:15.845 --> 0:04:19.945 the film you're watching, chases down four rogue replicants targeted 0:04:19.985 --> 0:04:23.125 for elimination, but he meets a formidable match in Rutger 0:04:23.165 --> 0:04:27.165 Hauer's uber-mensch of a lemon-haired god. So, when I saw 0:04:27.185 --> 0:04:30.095 the film at 21, guys, you weren't even born yet, 0:04:30.105 --> 0:04:33.635 I know, I came out wildly conflicted, but was very 0:04:33.715 --> 0:04:35.575 eager to see it a second time very soon, to 0:04:35.675 --> 0:04:37.695 really see it, see all of it, or at least 0:04:38.094 --> 0:04:40.964 more of it. Two questions I have for you. One, 0:04:41.185 --> 0:04:44.685 did Blade Runner flop back in 82 because George Lucas 0:04:44.725 --> 0:04:48.705 had reoriented the mass audience's taste for retro futuristic science 0:04:48.725 --> 0:04:52.705 fiction so radically five years earlier with Star Wars? And two, 0:04:53.085 --> 0:04:55.335 is Blade Runner a movie for you today that was 0:04:55.375 --> 0:04:58.214 simply ahead of its time and now seems very much 0:04:58.635 --> 0:05:01.255 what Ridley Scott intended it to be, an L.A. story 0:05:01.515 --> 0:05:05.245 with legs longer than Joanna Cassidy's? So I wanted to 0:05:05.344 --> 0:05:06.545 end on that sleazy note. 0:05:06.725 --> 0:05:07.465 Thank you. 0:05:07.525 --> 0:05:11.205 Appreciate that. I think you're right why Blade Runner was 0:05:11.365 --> 0:05:14.885 probably initially rejected. You put this side by side with 0:05:14.945 --> 0:05:20.265 something like Star Wars and it's absolutely a different experience. Contemplative. 0:05:20.284 --> 0:05:24.085 I was relieved, though, that it wasn't overbearing in that way. 0:05:24.185 --> 0:05:27.245 My memory of it, having seen probably the original theatrical 0:05:27.404 --> 0:05:30.135 release later in the 80s, I would have come across it, 0:05:30.665 --> 0:05:32.935 is what I initially watched. And my memory was that 0:05:32.964 --> 0:05:36.305 it was more ponderous more existential on the surface in 0:05:36.325 --> 0:05:38.655 the way, oh, I don't know, Prometheus is now or 0:05:38.714 --> 0:05:40.705 even Alien Covenant a little bit. 0:05:40.714 --> 0:05:41.815 Covering similar ground. 0:05:41.895 --> 0:05:43.015 Yes, it is. 0:05:43.055 --> 0:05:44.755 You're actually promulgating the auteur theory. 0:05:44.975 --> 0:05:49.035 Well, but I think that in comparison to those films 0:05:49.075 --> 0:05:52.585 in particular, it wears those elements lightly. In comparison to 0:05:52.625 --> 0:05:57.205 Star Wars, it wears them heavily. So that's probably a reason. 0:05:57.445 --> 0:05:59.645 I really did enjoy it this time. For the record, 0:05:59.705 --> 0:06:03.464 watched the final cut. looked amazing. The Blu-ray. I mean, 0:06:03.485 --> 0:06:04.964 the first thing we need to say, and you touched 0:06:05.005 --> 0:06:07.684 on it, Michael, is the visual aesthetic of this film. 0:06:08.525 --> 0:06:11.405 This thing could have been made yesterday, especially if you're 0:06:11.425 --> 0:06:15.404 watching it on a decent screen on Blu-ray. It just 0:06:15.505 --> 0:06:19.515 holds up absolutely from the flying cars to the, here's 0:06:19.534 --> 0:06:22.515 the world building detail that jumped out at me this time. 0:06:22.575 --> 0:06:25.695 That's just a small thing, but you multiply this, you know, 0:06:25.695 --> 0:06:28.625 50 times and you get a full world The handles 0:06:28.685 --> 0:06:32.354 of the umbrellas, how they glow, fluorescent. And you add 0:06:32.415 --> 0:06:35.995 enough of those and you get this parade of bobbing, 0:06:36.055 --> 0:06:38.655 glowing sticks down the street. It's just something like that 0:06:38.955 --> 0:06:42.365 in terms of prop design, production design that really fills 0:06:42.445 --> 0:06:45.525 out this world. And I think that's why the movie 0:06:45.605 --> 0:06:49.905 has been so influential and has lingered because it set 0:06:50.005 --> 0:06:51.404 that vision for so many people. 0:06:51.425 --> 0:06:51.545 Mm-hmm. 0:06:51.935 --> 0:06:55.555 And I think also because it's the definitive sci-noir. I mean, 0:06:55.575 --> 0:06:59.015 this is a merging of those two genres, science fiction 0:06:59.055 --> 0:07:01.195 and film noir. I think, and maybe we can get 0:07:01.245 --> 0:07:05.125 into this, that's absolutely the movie's strength in some ways. 0:07:05.485 --> 0:07:08.285 But it's also, there are areas to this where if 0:07:08.325 --> 0:07:10.125 you're holding it up as a film noir, it does 0:07:10.225 --> 0:07:13.715 fall a teeny bit short for me. But absolutely love 0:07:13.735 --> 0:07:18.115 this revisit. Spoiler, it makes my top five films of 1982. 0:07:18.115 --> 0:07:19.915 Now the big question that's going to be harder for 0:07:19.955 --> 0:07:22.655 me is, do I prefer this or Ridley Scott's Alien? 0:07:22.715 --> 0:07:25.125 Because I think that's one we've... bandied about on the 0:07:25.145 --> 0:07:26.865 show here, Adam, and have always said, well, it would 0:07:26.885 --> 0:07:29.235 really take a revisit of Blade Runner to answer that. 0:07:29.385 --> 0:07:29.575 Yeah. 0:07:29.655 --> 0:07:30.875 Now we kind of have to, and I don't have 0:07:30.895 --> 0:07:32.835 an answer right now. I don't either. Excellent films. 0:07:32.875 --> 0:07:37.095 I think you've hit on another reason why the mainstream 0:07:37.155 --> 0:07:39.635 audience back in 82 was just sort of perplexed and 0:07:39.655 --> 0:07:41.775 a little bit turned off by Blade Runner because they 0:07:41.815 --> 0:07:43.905 had just, you know, the last thing they remember with 0:07:43.925 --> 0:07:46.625 that and that brand name on it, Ridley Scott, was Alien, 0:07:46.665 --> 0:07:49.025 which really, you know, grabbed people by the throat. 0:07:49.085 --> 0:07:52.685 Much more pure genre. Absolutely. And, yeah, the Cy Noir. 0:07:53.425 --> 0:07:56.345 Handle, I like that. And really only Spielberg's Minority Report 0:07:56.385 --> 0:07:59.065 would sort of compete maybe with more recent work in 0:07:59.085 --> 0:07:59.885 that same genre. 0:07:59.945 --> 0:08:00.115 Yeah. 0:08:00.315 --> 0:08:02.275 No, I want to echo a lot of what you 0:08:02.315 --> 0:08:05.855 said there, Josh, including the stuff about its noir influence. 0:08:05.895 --> 0:08:09.235 But first, the cinematography, Jordan Cronenweth, we'll talk about that 0:08:09.275 --> 0:08:11.115 a little bit, the art direction. Yeah, the visual look 0:08:11.155 --> 0:08:14.325 of the film is still incredibly stunning and fascinating. I'm 0:08:14.345 --> 0:08:16.645 thinking of this too a little bit, not just in 0:08:16.665 --> 0:08:19.965 the context of something like Star Wars, but we did 0:08:19.985 --> 0:08:22.775 a while back here on the show, a 70s sci-fi marathon. 0:08:22.815 --> 0:08:25.235 And we covered a lot of movies that were made 0:08:25.295 --> 0:08:27.335 in the early part of that decade that are kind 0:08:27.375 --> 0:08:30.155 of silly now, though I wouldn't say The Andromeda Strain 0:08:30.195 --> 0:08:32.975 is necessarily silly. And I like that movie, but Maybe 0:08:33.035 --> 0:08:37.455 something like Silent Running looks pretty quaint and cheesy from 0:08:37.915 --> 0:08:40.775 the 2017 perspective. But some of the stuff made in 0:08:40.815 --> 0:08:43.875 the mid to later part of that decade, too, Logan's Run, 0:08:44.635 --> 0:08:47.095 they feel way more than five or six years apart. 0:08:47.135 --> 0:08:51.565 They feel generations apart from a filmmaking standpoint. And it's 0:08:51.655 --> 0:08:56.545 almost as if this future dystopia had really never existed 0:08:56.625 --> 0:08:58.885 before Blade Runner. I feel like it has been the 0:08:58.945 --> 0:09:01.795 influence for every film that has followed it. And one 0:09:01.835 --> 0:09:03.214 of the things that really stood out to me was 0:09:03.255 --> 0:09:07.204 the sense watching it that it's terrifying. It does feel 0:09:07.485 --> 0:09:09.604 like a dystopia very much at times in terms of 0:09:09.905 --> 0:09:13.845 the overcrowding. We are clued into the fact that if 0:09:13.905 --> 0:09:16.345 you want to get away, and most people do, they 0:09:16.385 --> 0:09:20.145 go off world, right? That these are kind of the nobodies. 0:09:20.304 --> 0:09:23.025 And even the detective or the cop Bryant at one 0:09:23.045 --> 0:09:24.444 point says that to him, if you're not a cop, 0:09:24.465 --> 0:09:24.865 you're one. 0:09:24.804 --> 0:09:25.545 Of the little people. 0:09:25.564 --> 0:09:27.405 Well, this is a world full of little people of 0:09:27.525 --> 0:09:31.495 leave behinds who really have So it's a scary place 0:09:31.554 --> 0:09:33.895 at times and terrifying, but it's also just because of 0:09:33.934 --> 0:09:37.155 the look of it, exciting and alluring and somehow inviting, 0:09:37.205 --> 0:09:39.905 like you almost want to go and experience this version 0:09:39.925 --> 0:09:40.485 of Los Angeles. 0:09:52.405 --> 0:09:55.555 A few years earlier, you can believe in what you're watching. 0:09:56.035 --> 0:09:58.715 Because the film takes place at night and it's raining 0:09:58.755 --> 0:10:02.835 and it's got the right texture and background, the kind 0:10:02.855 --> 0:10:05.614 of effects that Scott was working with and his team, 0:10:07.375 --> 0:10:09.755 they're pulled off. You don't see any of the usual 0:10:09.814 --> 0:10:12.755 blues lines around. A little bit here and there, but 0:10:13.255 --> 0:10:17.255 it just has a believability. Now, does it connect? Does 0:10:17.314 --> 0:10:20.605 it satisfy on story terms? That's what, you know, back 0:10:20.625 --> 0:10:23.324 in 82 audiences were kind of like, it's not an 0:10:23.465 --> 0:10:26.585 untrackable plot. It's a very simple plot. It's simply, okay, 0:10:26.625 --> 0:10:31.415 you know, one relatably, you know, kind of worn down 0:10:31.855 --> 0:10:34.015 private eye type figure, you know, in this case a 0:10:34.054 --> 0:10:38.335 Blade Runner, has to chase down one by one these targets, 0:10:38.515 --> 0:10:41.194 these replicants. the film's got a very kind of vignette 0:10:41.455 --> 0:10:46.115 structure and that's unusual, you know, especially coming off year 0:10:46.175 --> 0:10:48.834 before you had the second Star Wars film, Empire Strikes Back, 0:10:48.855 --> 0:10:50.824 you know, of course the main Star Wars film, 77, 0:10:50.825 --> 0:10:53.895 you know, that kind of pacing for the time was 0:10:53.915 --> 0:10:57.785 just pure Atari, right? You know, like fast and you 0:10:57.804 --> 0:11:00.704 didn't get a sense of like even segments or big scenes. 0:11:00.745 --> 0:11:04.445 It was just all one ride, right? Blade Runner, very different. 0:11:04.684 --> 0:11:07.104 And I think Josh, even if you didn't experience it 0:11:07.205 --> 0:11:13.054 as ponderous or, At the time, I think it was disorienting. 0:11:13.355 --> 0:11:13.555 Sure. 0:11:13.575 --> 0:11:16.255 And as far as the story beats go, you can 0:11:16.314 --> 0:11:20.255 even sense in the final cut, which is Scott's preferred version, 0:11:20.705 --> 0:11:23.725 that things are still being a bit patched together in 0:11:23.804 --> 0:11:28.944 terms of Ford's identity, Deckard's identity, his relationship with the 0:11:29.005 --> 0:11:33.485 Sean Young character. And even here, there's the one glimpse 0:11:33.725 --> 0:11:35.865 of the unicorn, right? The one dream sequence. 0:11:35.885 --> 0:11:36.184 Yeah. 0:11:36.645 --> 0:11:38.615 You somewhat know how to fit that in if you 0:11:38.625 --> 0:11:41.175 have familiarity with the lore about all these other versions, 0:11:41.595 --> 0:11:44.234 but seeing that just on its own, it's a little, 0:11:44.575 --> 0:11:46.375 it stands out. So you can tell that there are 0:11:46.715 --> 0:11:50.074 pieces trying to be forced together here narratively, and I 0:11:50.115 --> 0:11:52.554 think that does provide a little bit of a hiccup. 0:11:52.595 --> 0:11:55.485 But again, it's more of a mood that this movie 0:11:55.515 --> 0:11:59.385 is managing to evoke. It's that fatalism from film noir 0:11:59.785 --> 0:12:03.104 that it really latches onto and makes us feel. Of course, 0:12:03.125 --> 0:12:06.145 you have things like, we've mentioned the floating billboard that 0:12:06.184 --> 0:12:09.684 has spotlights that are constantly streaming through all the windows, 0:12:10.064 --> 0:12:12.815 and all the windows have Venetian blinds, right? In 2019, 0:12:12.814 --> 0:12:16.594 Los Angeles. So you get this noir sense. You get 0:12:17.125 --> 0:12:20.585 Harrison Ford, you know, I was a little disappointed him 0:12:20.645 --> 0:12:23.165 being a hero of my youth from all these other films. 0:12:23.184 --> 0:12:25.515 You know, Indiana Jones and Han Solo. Here he's just 0:12:25.554 --> 0:12:30.295 a harder drinking. Indiana Jones, a little crabbier, otherwise tries 0:12:30.335 --> 0:12:33.015 to float by on the same charisma. He's no Sam Spade, 0:12:33.035 --> 0:12:34.725 in other words. 0:12:34.755 --> 0:12:36.405 He's so disaffected. 0:12:36.684 --> 0:12:40.225 He's fine, but you could tell he's working against that. 0:12:40.755 --> 0:12:43.615 charm that he brought to those other parts purposefully. You 0:12:43.655 --> 0:12:45.515 can see why he was drawn to this. I'm going 0:12:45.535 --> 0:12:48.354 to make my anti-Star Wars in a way, but I 0:12:48.434 --> 0:12:52.814 think that still makes for a somewhat less interesting character. 0:12:52.855 --> 0:12:56.255 The movie, really for me, belongs to Rutger Hauer. And 0:12:56.295 --> 0:12:58.295 this is where the fatalism comes in. This is where 0:12:58.314 --> 0:13:04.155 this movie becomes about mortality. And the replicants just stand 0:13:04.395 --> 0:13:08.065 in for us. They have this four-year lifespan and Roy 0:13:08.105 --> 0:13:12.505 Batty The way he has a dreaminess, he's in wonder 0:13:12.585 --> 0:13:15.765 at the world, even as he despises his corporate creators 0:13:15.785 --> 0:13:18.545 who have given him this four-year lifespan. And the way 0:13:18.745 --> 0:13:19.945 Howard balances... I. 0:13:19.905 --> 0:13:21.425 Should say that's how it works at the Trib, too. 0:13:21.505 --> 0:13:23.345 It's just a four-year renewal. 0:13:24.205 --> 0:13:26.365 I was going to say, you've been renewed a few times. 0:13:26.405 --> 0:13:29.235 A couple of times. Not yet retired, thank goodness. The 0:13:29.265 --> 0:13:33.574 way Howard balances those two things, though, where there's this 0:13:34.135 --> 0:13:40.165 poet inside him, inside this assassin... and he recognizes his mortality, 0:13:40.184 --> 0:13:42.775 and the way that reflects on all of us gives 0:13:43.115 --> 0:13:47.334 Blade Runner, despite any plot confusion, this heavy sort of 0:13:47.535 --> 0:13:49.345 noir fatalism that I think sticks with you. 0:13:49.355 --> 0:13:51.345 Yeah, I might argue with you on that. I think that, 0:13:51.745 --> 0:13:56.765 to me, that is where the eye-rolling I do experience, 0:13:56.825 --> 0:13:59.765 and I know this is sacrilege for the Blade Runner fans, 0:14:00.505 --> 0:14:02.005 and I am a fan. I mean, I saw it 0:14:02.064 --> 0:14:04.275 twice back then, and I've certainly seen it twice or 0:14:04.295 --> 0:14:04.915 three times since. 0:14:04.955 --> 0:14:05.155 But. 0:14:06.885 --> 0:14:08.085 Tears and Rain doesn't work for you? 0:14:08.105 --> 0:14:10.344 Well, I, you know, I do enough of my own. 0:14:10.625 --> 0:14:12.785 I don't need to, but I think other things about 0:14:12.825 --> 0:14:16.565 that movie, you know, really do point to everything Ridley 0:14:16.585 --> 0:14:20.285 Scott explored over and over with, you know, the alien 0:14:20.405 --> 0:14:22.925 sort of world of the more recent films. He loves 0:14:22.975 --> 0:14:26.635 this idea of, you know, life as it is lived 0:14:26.755 --> 0:14:30.735 or imagined by non-human, you know, creations. And it's a 0:14:30.795 --> 0:14:33.335 great theme, you know, and it gets right to the 0:14:33.375 --> 0:14:35.945 kind of, You know, everything from, you know, there's a 0:14:35.985 --> 0:14:39.285 lot of movies and novels right next door to this idea. 0:14:39.505 --> 0:14:42.945 And I think it's the point of this movie. But 0:14:43.365 --> 0:14:45.985 there is something a little dead about the Harrison Ford character. 0:14:46.025 --> 0:14:46.805 He's reactive. 0:14:47.165 --> 0:14:47.745 He's sullen. 0:14:48.525 --> 0:14:50.845 There's no heroics. You know, all that and all this 0:14:51.025 --> 0:14:53.905 Harrison Ford knew going in. He wasn't yet an interesting 0:14:53.945 --> 0:14:58.045 enough actor to play two notes at once within that range. 0:14:58.085 --> 0:15:00.525 Yeah, he's coasting on his charisma here a little bit. 0:15:01.095 --> 0:15:04.985 Remember when you were six? You and your brother snuck 0:15:05.005 --> 0:15:07.785 into an empty building through a basement window. You were 0:15:07.805 --> 0:15:12.555 going to play doctor. He showed you his. When it 0:15:12.575 --> 0:15:14.455 got to be your turn, you chickened and ran. 0:15:14.535 --> 0:15:15.035 Remember that? 0:15:18.675 --> 0:15:21.235 You ever tell anybody that? Your mother, Tyrell, anybody? 0:15:23.355 --> 0:15:25.854 I am a big fan of the villain performances here. 0:15:25.895 --> 0:15:28.625 I would include actually even Pris, Daryl Hannah in. 0:15:28.515 --> 0:15:30.685 The mix here. That's a really good scene. 0:15:30.765 --> 0:15:33.364 I think William Sanderson is the actor who plays J.F. Sebastian, 0:15:33.405 --> 0:15:36.305 who sees them. And when he sees Roy Batty come in, 0:15:36.345 --> 0:15:38.545 he knows for sure, if he didn't know already, that 0:15:38.645 --> 0:15:40.984 both of them are replicants. And he says, you're just 0:15:41.065 --> 0:15:41.745 so perfect. 0:15:41.865 --> 0:15:42.345 And they are. 0:15:42.425 --> 0:15:45.335 There's something about them that instantly suggests that. But I'm 0:15:45.375 --> 0:15:47.465 with you, Josh, in terms of loving them. the Howard 0:15:47.505 --> 0:15:51.405 character and performance, and I love that he is this character. 0:15:51.455 --> 0:15:54.555 He's built up as a bad guy. Bryant calls him 0:15:54.735 --> 0:15:57.795 the worst, and he's a menacing figure, and we are 0:15:58.035 --> 0:15:59.655 supposed to be afraid of him a little bit, I think, 0:15:59.715 --> 0:16:02.395 but he gets scared, which we don't see a lot 0:16:02.455 --> 0:16:05.755 from villains in these types of sci-fi movies. He gets emotional, 0:16:06.295 --> 0:16:08.715 and I do think that end soliloquy is still, for me, 0:16:08.795 --> 0:16:11.915 one of the most tragic and moving soliloquies in all 0:16:11.955 --> 0:16:15.665 of cinema. This idea of that he's lamenting memories and 0:16:15.865 --> 0:16:17.425 locations and visions that. 0:16:17.385 --> 0:16:18.965 Are completely made up. 0:16:19.075 --> 0:16:22.295 They are meaningless to any human being listening to what 0:16:22.335 --> 0:16:25.035 he's describing. And yet the way he does it, the 0:16:25.075 --> 0:16:27.415 fact that he is so poetic about it and so 0:16:27.495 --> 0:16:30.635 evocative in his delivery, it makes it such a lament 0:16:30.695 --> 0:16:32.495 that you feel the power of that. 0:16:32.555 --> 0:16:34.355 So I do love that performance. 0:16:34.415 --> 0:16:36.965 And look, what I responded to when I saw this 0:16:37.005 --> 0:16:39.345 movie for the first time, and honestly, the last time, 0:16:39.625 --> 0:16:40.605 it was back in college. 0:16:40.625 --> 0:16:42.565 It was over 20 years ago I saw this film. 0:16:42.895 --> 0:16:45.975 But that question, of course, that typical sort of cliche, 0:16:46.015 --> 0:16:49.015 if you will, sci-fi question, what ultimately makes us human? 0:16:49.035 --> 0:16:52.325 And of course, the movie suggests that beyond emotions, beyond 0:16:52.365 --> 0:16:57.185 a capacity for imagination, maybe it is memories. And beyond memories, 0:16:57.305 --> 0:17:01.515 it's this instinct for survival, the desire for survival. To live, 0:17:01.595 --> 0:17:04.895 to go beyond your life expectancy, however you pull that off. 0:17:04.935 --> 0:17:07.835 And so we get into that similar ground to some 0:17:07.855 --> 0:17:10.754 of the Alien movies with Scott, where he loves the 0:17:10.795 --> 0:17:14.715 idea of meeting your maker, confronting your maker, and asking 0:17:14.735 --> 0:17:17.075 for more life or demanding more life, which is something 0:17:17.155 --> 0:17:19.635 I think we would all probably do if we could. 0:17:19.695 --> 0:17:22.315 It is a fundamentally human quest. One of the things 0:17:22.335 --> 0:17:25.385 I missed, though, that really stuck out to me this 0:17:25.425 --> 0:17:27.605 time watching it that fits in with all of this 0:17:27.925 --> 0:17:31.265 is the end of the film, that showdown between Batty 0:17:31.785 --> 0:17:35.165 and Deckard. I always saw as Batty just kind of 0:17:35.345 --> 0:17:39.045 toying with Deckard, maybe ultimately having sympathy for him. He 0:17:39.085 --> 0:17:42.625 spares him, of course, but toying with him, but just 0:17:42.705 --> 0:17:45.645 kind of prolonging their confrontation that he is ultimately going 0:17:45.715 --> 0:17:47.975 to take him down, whether he changes his mind or 0:17:48.015 --> 0:17:51.075 not is something we can discuss. But I thought maybe, OK, 0:17:51.175 --> 0:17:52.715 he has a cruel streak in him and he's going 0:17:52.735 --> 0:17:55.515 to take it out on Deckard, who has killed his friends, 0:17:55.575 --> 0:17:58.205 the other replicants. And then what I really tapped into 0:17:58.245 --> 0:18:03.605 this time is the way Scott emphasizes Deckard's struggle to survive, 0:18:04.285 --> 0:18:07.645 really keying in on the lengths he goes to in 0:18:07.685 --> 0:18:11.465 order to survive, climbing through those holes, climbing up on 0:18:11.485 --> 0:18:14.765 that bureau, whatever it is, going through the ceiling, going 0:18:14.845 --> 0:18:17.855 out on that ledge, the way he's hanging on for 0:18:18.295 --> 0:18:21.195 dear life, literally, and his fingers are about to fall. 0:18:21.455 --> 0:18:24.035 And we are constantly seeing that from Batty's perspective, too. 0:18:24.075 --> 0:18:26.175 I think in a lot of ways, It's a more 0:18:26.375 --> 0:18:31.525 intense and shortened version of the entire struggle of Batty 0:18:31.845 --> 0:18:34.325 and his replicants since they had their mutiny and escaped. 0:18:34.385 --> 0:18:36.685 It's basically I think what he sees in him in 0:18:36.725 --> 0:18:40.705 that moment is that same desire to live, that same 0:18:40.765 --> 0:18:44.535 desire to survive that he himself feels. And so ultimately 0:18:44.575 --> 0:18:46.945 then sees a certain kinship with him. 0:18:47.225 --> 0:18:50.705 And there's a vulnerability there, too. So this is what 0:18:50.795 --> 0:18:52.695 Ford does have, and this is what he had from 0:18:52.715 --> 0:18:54.715 the start. It's the same thing that Bruce Willis tapped 0:18:54.755 --> 0:18:58.815 into that made him an iconic action hero was vulnerability. 0:18:58.895 --> 0:19:01.935 This guy could get hurt. He wasn't like Stallone or 0:19:02.015 --> 0:19:04.695 he wasn't like Schwarzenegger in this way. And we see 0:19:04.735 --> 0:19:07.705 that in Ford's performance here. I think it works really well. 0:19:07.825 --> 0:19:11.365 And I think what's so moving about that climactic showdown 0:19:11.385 --> 0:19:15.865 is is that Batty just succumbs to his own exhaustion 0:19:16.025 --> 0:19:20.245 and weariness and maybe realizes the futility of this human 0:19:20.285 --> 0:19:23.515 emotion he's experiencing, revenge. Does that make him human, that 0:19:23.555 --> 0:19:27.355 he now wants to pursue vengeance for Deckard killing the 0:19:27.435 --> 0:19:30.355 other replicants? I don't know, maybe. And the speech itself 0:19:30.415 --> 0:19:33.475 works for me because it's almost as if Batty had 0:19:33.515 --> 0:19:37.805 been programmed for Shakespeare. It's that dramatically given, right? That's 0:19:37.845 --> 0:19:41.595 why we remember it. It's very melodramatic. He's theatrical. He's theatrical. 0:19:41.615 --> 0:19:45.055 He makes entrances. Underneath that, you can sense that there's 0:19:45.095 --> 0:19:48.985 something also deeply felt about what he's saying that Hauer 0:19:49.045 --> 0:19:51.445 is also bringing to the performance. And I think that's 0:19:51.465 --> 0:19:54.165 where the connection is made, where then we start to realize, OK, 0:19:54.185 --> 0:19:56.995 this whole movie is about our own mortality, whether we're 0:19:57.015 --> 0:19:59.535 replicants or not. Maybe that's where it has a leg 0:19:59.635 --> 0:20:02.275 up on, I can see what you're saying, Michael, alien behavior. 0:20:02.925 --> 0:20:04.555 You could say Alien did this. Well, it's a totally different, 0:20:04.615 --> 0:20:06.075 it's a different kind of thing. Right, but in terms 0:20:06.095 --> 0:20:09.555 of the artificially intelligent figure, you could say, well, Alien 0:20:09.595 --> 0:20:12.385 did this with one side character. you know in ash 0:20:12.565 --> 0:20:15.225 everything that Blade Runner is doing alien did kind of 0:20:15.285 --> 0:20:17.525 off to the side to a degree I see that 0:20:17.565 --> 0:20:22.235 but I think there's something larger and more universal about 0:20:22.735 --> 0:20:25.235 this sense of mortality that we're experiencing in Blade Runner 0:20:25.275 --> 0:20:27.745 that we don't maybe get In the character of Ash. 0:20:27.805 --> 0:20:31.215 Now, does it matter to you guys, the key question 0:20:31.235 --> 0:20:33.315 that everybody keeps coming back to is Deckard. 0:20:33.375 --> 0:20:34.555 So I want to talk about that for sure. 0:20:34.575 --> 0:20:35.835 I don't know if I'm ready to get there yet, 0:20:35.895 --> 0:20:37.455 but I think we should close with that for sure. 0:20:39.415 --> 0:20:41.115 I want to go back to something you both brought 0:20:41.155 --> 0:20:43.155 up in terms of the narrative and how successful or 0:20:43.215 --> 0:20:46.045