Speaker 1: As Media.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to day five of the Better Offline
Speaker 2: Consumer Electronics Show Saga. I'm your host edna. I am well, slept,
Speaker 2: I ate two meals yesterday. My feet feel great, I
Speaker 2: look fantastic. I'm having a hell of a show. But
Speaker 2: it's the last day, sadly, but only the last day
Speaker 2: of the show. We have today and then we have tomorrow,
Speaker 2: a kind of our positive masculinity day. We're getting we're
Speaker 2: getting massages, we're having brunch, We're gonna have a wonderful podcast,
Speaker 2: can talk about our feelings. It's gonna be amazing. But
Speaker 2: today we have an incredible cast with us. To my
Speaker 2: left is Edward Graso Junior, my wonderful correspond Hello.
Speaker 3: How's everyone doing.
Speaker 2: I'm great, as I just said, clearly was thinking of
Speaker 2: something else. But over to my right, I have the
Speaker 2: wonderful Sheilin Low, the debutyta Or and Gadget Shlan.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us, Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me.
Speaker 2: And to my right David j Roth.
Speaker 1: How you doing, David, I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 4: Oh wait, no, you already said that the only wanted
Speaker 4: to't ask?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well you were everyone was doing Oh okay, Well,
Speaker 2: didn't ask though anyway until now. Yes, So how many
Speaker 2: CS is this? Is this for you?
Speaker 1: I've well few enough that I'm not last season as
Speaker 1: people who have done this twenty five years. I think
Speaker 1: I'm under ten. I think nine or eight.
Speaker 2: That's still a low.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that sort of still seems high to me. This
Speaker 4: is my first and Edwards first.
Speaker 1: Oh how does it feel?
Speaker 3: Oh so real?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that everything you expected? And Moore? I want to
Speaker 1: know about Ann Moore. I want to know about.
Speaker 4: Most of what I got in terms of expectations setting
Speaker 4: was from ed and it was like I kind of
Speaker 4: expected it to suck more than it does, okay, like
Speaker 4: because he was more or less, you know, trying to
Speaker 4: get me. I don't know if it was just that's
Speaker 4: how I was just motivated, Like you have no idea
Speaker 4: how depraved it is. Like you're going to see things
Speaker 4: down there and.
Speaker 1: It's like that's it's a trade show.
Speaker 4: Like, I mean, it still kind of stinks, but there's
Speaker 4: it was more normal for the most part, which made
Speaker 4: the stuff that was like ridiculous and dystopian pop that
Speaker 4: much harder for me.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it pretty well. Depraved. I'm sorry, yeah, go on,
Speaker 1: was there a version of it that was I feel
Speaker 1: like it? Okay, this CS is like surprisingly, I feel
Speaker 1: like Las Vegas as a city has figured a lot
Speaker 1: of it shipped out. Can I swear?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 5: Great?
Speaker 1: Ah? Fuck? Don't do all the swears. Okay, just all right?
Speaker 4: Okay, the brown word, you could say damn but not
Speaker 4: you know, but no, no sea words.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I think that's the one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, gotcha, So chicken.
Speaker 4: So what do you how do you get like Vegas
Speaker 4: has like assimilated this?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, I mean you can see all the construction happening,
Speaker 1: but they've managed to make it so the construction is
Speaker 1: not impeding a lot of the getting around, which you
Speaker 1: have done in previous years of traffic. I'm sure you know.
Speaker 2: And being at CS is like a double punishment.
Speaker 1: Oh god, I don't know why you choose to do
Speaker 1: that to yourself, but you did choose to do this
Speaker 1: many decisions. The West Hall is beautiful. The fact that
Speaker 1: the weather is extremely beautiful this week makes everyone feel
Speaker 1: better when they're outside. I've been here when there was
Speaker 1: the rain and the snow, and then one year everything
Speaker 1: all the power went out and all of the boots
Speaker 1: at the same time, and I was on stage doing
Speaker 1: like a panel hosting a panel interviewing Sony's like head
Speaker 1: of hardware or something, and we were like vamping on
Speaker 1: stage for a minute there while the power came back on.
Speaker 1: So there's been like cs as baths where like things
Speaker 1: haven't been as nice or I I to me, this
Speaker 1: has been nicely running fairly.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The one thing I will say that worries me about
Speaker 2: Las Vegas is for like a solid decade we lost
Speaker 2: the flappy guys, the guys who have the cards yes
Speaker 2: that they flip together to off for escals. Those guys
Speaker 2: disappeared for a long time. But for the first time
Speaker 2: since like twenty fourteen, I would say they're they're back,
Speaker 2: but there's not many of them.
Speaker 3: They just kind of I saw them when I was
Speaker 3: last year, really when I saw you the first time
Speaker 3: that we met. Yeah, but they were like outside of
Speaker 3: the insurance convention that Jaython had been.
Speaker 1: The right place to be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe they're just like looking at the people that
Speaker 4: are going to see yes, and or like these are
Speaker 4: this is not an escort crowd.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just they have a meeting beforehand and they
Speaker 2: have like an Excel spreadsheet they all work through and like.
Speaker 3: We're really the odds out, let's make it happen during
Speaker 3: AVN Again, that's not just no no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe they're like these guys can build their own escorts,
Speaker 1: you know, like the robots that we saw this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that there was a tap hunter washing and
Speaker 2: post a narcle about that where it was like the
Speaker 2: conversation with the guys about that, and everyone's just like,
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know, man, Like it's just I'll
Speaker 2: link to it in the in the thing. But I
Speaker 2: do think the tech industry reporters do kind of need
Speaker 2: to look at AVM more and kind of broaden out
Speaker 2: from this stuff.
Speaker 4: But because as much and I do apologize.
Speaker 2: To female listeners who feels like who said stuff about
Speaker 2: being gross a few times on this, but I will
Speaker 2: say sex perversion all that is a part of society
Speaker 2: and one can be puritanical about it, but that area
Speaker 2: needs more coverage. And we've kind of talked about seeing
Speaker 2: the various dilldonics manufacturers around here.
Speaker 4: That sounds better when you use the technical terms stiltonics,
Speaker 4: advanced tillics, A lot more consonants than you'd expect, right,
Speaker 4: But I feel like that is a weirdly left out
Speaker 4: part called jet age.
Speaker 1: I think I can't speak for all of the tech media,
Speaker 1: but we're Engadget. It's like we've got a prioritize he
Speaker 1: has is such a huge show. We've got the krs
Speaker 1: of drones and robots. We do cover sex tech like
Speaker 1: this year there was the motor Bunny or Motor.
Speaker 4: Fluffy, Motor Bunny power and know uh something powered by
Speaker 4: Fluffer I haven't read yet, thank you.
Speaker 1: That was when I went back down to the floor.
Speaker 4: For what I'm writing, it is motor Bunny powered by Fluffy.
Speaker 4: And then there's another low Vents is the one that's
Speaker 4: across from it. That was the one where they actually
Speaker 4: like I was there with a guy's like a producer
Speaker 4: for other podcasts like Friends of Ours that we're also
Speaker 4: here and has like it's sort of like a running
Speaker 4: gag in those podcasts that this guy's life is just
Speaker 4: completely feral and like just how to take care of himself.
Speaker 4: And I saw him like blush while getting just instructions
Speaker 4: on how this thing sinks. With that at the event's
Speaker 4: thing the I didn't go to the motor Buddy powered
Speaker 4: by Fluffer.
Speaker 1: Sure bit just because you know the news there though,
Speaker 1: no they're making uh I believe Adel Donn. That's powered
Speaker 1: by game control. Well I thought it was a game.
Speaker 4: The game is called fabby Bunny. Yeah, but it's this
Speaker 4: sort of thing, like you, there's a limit no one
Speaker 4: expects me to do, really grig Journals. I'm a sports
Speaker 4: writer and I'm here because there's a fulld out bed
Speaker 4: and everything. Ause I enjoy hanging out with my friends.
Speaker 4: Also for the podcast, also for the podcast, but the
Speaker 4: idea of like having to look someone in the face
Speaker 4: while he says like fappy bunny to me, Like just
Speaker 4: like it's a normal thing to say to a guy.
Speaker 1: I think, do you think it's it's odd because you're
Speaker 1: both men may presumably sis hetero men in the space
Speaker 1: same sites, because I covered this from the woman's angle
Speaker 1: to your point that like in tech, especially a space
Speaker 1: that's not predominantly like friendly to women. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: the CTA has been notorious for not wanting to showcase
Speaker 1: sex type for women thing. Yeah, so I mean since
Speaker 1: the big huhah, I think four or five years ago
Speaker 1: Laura to Carlo really went out and said, like, why
Speaker 1: are they not allowing us? They restonded our innovation award.
Speaker 1: They made a smart vibrator, I believe, and were granted
Speaker 1: an innovation award in sort of the health category and
Speaker 1: then had it rescinded it like weeks before the show started.
Speaker 1: I can't remember how many years christ Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: like didn't let them display at the actual show floor era.
Speaker 1: I remember even before Lord de Carlo did all of that,
Speaker 1: I was covering. I'm sorry, Lord de Carlo is a
Speaker 1: sex tech company that made a smart vibrator with a
Speaker 1: focus on women right and women's sexual health and empowerment.
Speaker 1: I have I interviewed them for a piece back then,
Speaker 1: and I haven't kept in touch as much, and so
Speaker 1: I've completely forgotten, like my brain's ram has run out.
Speaker 1: But I remember very well another brand, Lioness, who makes
Speaker 1: also a smart vibrating bildo, and they had to like
Speaker 1: show it an off site sort of non official, non
Speaker 1: sanction see as event in Vegas that they had made
Speaker 1: orgasm arts. So they have a smart vibrator with sensors
Speaker 1: in it, right, and it would like tell you when
Speaker 1: you've had an orgasm based on the vibrations.
Speaker 2: That actually feels like that might be very use It is.
Speaker 1: Actually useful because the pitch back then and you know, men,
Speaker 1: when you have erectile dysfunction, for example, it could be
Speaker 1: an indicator that something's wrong with your heart health. It
Speaker 1: could be something that's wrong somewhere else in your body.
Speaker 1: It's like a check engine light for women. It could
Speaker 1: be similar. Like, we don't have enough data, and that
Speaker 1: was step one on collecting the data. So the Lioness
Speaker 1: Smart vibrator was very impressive to the point where like
Speaker 1: on the Engadget team, like we we gave it like
Speaker 1: one of the it was a nominee for an award
Speaker 1: in the health category that year that we were awarding
Speaker 1: the CTAs Best of cs Awards, and it is it
Speaker 1: does like you to your point ed, we were just
Speaker 1: talking before the podcast starter that we need people in
Speaker 1: the space where like away I'm familiar and the CTA
Speaker 1: was gatekeeping some of this or it was like not
Speaker 1: open to because it was squamish. I get it makes
Speaker 1: people screamish to be like you put this inside you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that you raised something with David.
Speaker 2: Men in general do not discuss sex, thank you, and
Speaker 2: men have a very hard time talking about like arouse,
Speaker 2: they talk about lust. They're very good at discussing the
Speaker 2: journey and all that. Like it's almost like, oh, sex
Speaker 2: is something we do in a dark crew and we
Speaker 2: hide from it despite men also craving it.
Speaker 4: So the discussion with men about sex is actually quite rare.
Speaker 2: I only have to I never talked about having sex
Speaker 2: with you guys, not literally doing it, but it also
Speaker 2: having had sex in general, which is the one rule
Speaker 2: we have here, does not happen at ces. That's that's
Speaker 2: a choice. But nevertheless, it's like men don't have these
Speaker 2: discussions about sex in general. So the idea of a
Speaker 2: man being able to go up to and it's a challenge,
Speaker 2: especially if it outside of your coverage, to go up
Speaker 2: and be like, hey, so how do you use this
Speaker 2: that hoo hoo, but also not feeling a little vulnerable
Speaker 2: because with men, especially with sex toys, at least in
Speaker 2: my experience of discussing with them, they're scared of the
Speaker 2: idea of using it with a partner like male or female.
Speaker 2: That the idea is it's like giving up, even though
Speaker 2: from my experience, whatever gets the job done. A woman
Speaker 2: tend to be pretty happy, but even then even saying
Speaker 2: this out loud, I'm like, Yeah, this is the conversation
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have with guys in general.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we should be talking more and
Speaker 1: more about it. Like I just from you bringing that up, Ed,
Speaker 1: I was like said, I was like, oh, yeah, men
Speaker 1: probably don't even talk about because I have for a
Speaker 1: large chunk of my life been like we need to
Speaker 1: talk more about sex just a monstreament. I think we
Speaker 1: need to talk about what gets you, what an orgasm
Speaker 1: feels like? Like what is all this stuff? Because there's
Speaker 1: people that are not having it and that's just depressing.
Speaker 1: It's like they're like, I don't know what does get
Speaker 1: me off or not? But have I had to know
Speaker 1: or not? Like it's I'm just.
Speaker 2: Joy in it. There is so much that and like
Speaker 2: the intimacy you can have with someone with having a detailed,
Speaker 2: meaningful conversation about what gets you both off. It's something
Speaker 2: you can walk and you need to.
Speaker 1: Talk to your partner about it. What are you going
Speaker 1: to do or talk to yourself about it? Figure yourself
Speaker 1: out and then talk to your partner or partners or
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do with people about it. Like
Speaker 1: you should be experiencing joy and every and and I
Speaker 1: get that as we're talking about this, people already feeling squeamish,
Speaker 1: like I'm sure listeners are like uncomfortable with the topic.
Speaker 1: It's it's not like I don't know how we're going
Speaker 1: to integrate.
Speaker 4: Your listeners are demanding did she.
Speaker 3: Has try to overcrack? Because I feel like when I
Speaker 3: looked at the innovation awards when I first or not overcracked.
Speaker 3: But have they tried there's has their response been like, oh,
Speaker 3: we don't want that backlash, or oh, we are like
Speaker 3: changing our mind about it. I because I because I
Speaker 3: didn't realize that they have given an innovation award and
Speaker 3: removed it. They had an innovation award to a vibrator
Speaker 3: to a smart I think dolphin or vibrator toy in general,
Speaker 3: but that was the only one that I saw and
Speaker 3: most of it. I'm curious about whether it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: since that since they had this scandal, they're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: we'll just do a sort of small carve out and
Speaker 3: that will be enough as a sort of superficial move,
Speaker 3: but we're not actually going to talk about it, change
Speaker 3: attitudes about it, integrated more.
Speaker 1: Kind of like lip service kind of like just giving
Speaker 1: you your here have this and like don't bother as anymore.
Speaker 2: So I think it's I think thematically relevant as well,
Speaker 2: because there's a real irony about it, because the reason
Speaker 2: they're probably not putting it front and center is that
Speaker 2: like I was just giving into iniquity all these people
Speaker 2: just be talking about, right, So instead you do the
Speaker 2: thing that's well known with sex that you should do,
Speaker 2: which is repression. Yeah, when you just hide it all
Speaker 2: versus and you talk about people being uncomfortable talking about this,
Speaker 2: we're not talking.
Speaker 1: About the actuspects of it not.
Speaker 2: But also there is joy and happiness within this in
Speaker 2: the same way that not real problems of being solved
Speaker 2: all the time here sex toys are actually solving them
Speaker 2: on the I can't.
Speaker 4: Speak to how squeamish or not squeamish ces is because
Speaker 4: I don't know very much about it, But it feels
Speaker 4: like this is a dynamic that we've kept coming back
Speaker 4: to in these which is like this is a product
Speaker 4: that solves like a problem that people experience. It's like
Speaker 4: the thing that like enhances your life in some way,
Speaker 4: And it feels like much of for me, I guess
Speaker 4: like the balance of the stuff that you see here
Speaker 4: is not that it is either like it's do Dad
Speaker 4: stuff to a certain extent, but then also there's this
Speaker 4: like pie in the sky shit about like it's a
Speaker 4: house that like empathizes with you and it helps it
Speaker 4: helps you pick out your you know, yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 4: Whereas in this case, it's like the stuff that I
Speaker 4: was impressed with down there was stuff that was basically
Speaker 4: like that felt like an invention. It felt like an
Speaker 4: invention that had become a product that could then be
Speaker 4: like marketed and sold. And it doesn't I don't know
Speaker 4: to what extent. And this is something the people that
Speaker 4: have been to more cees Is than me could speak on,
Speaker 4: like has the was there a time when it was
Speaker 4: more of a like a place that sold products or
Speaker 4: has it always been a place where like LG promises
Speaker 4: to fix your life.
Speaker 1: I can't speak for like more than ten years past,
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, I guess I mentioned this recently. Like
Speaker 1: it started as feeling like the Home Entertainment LG show,
Speaker 1: along with some like laptops and Hairy Bud sprinkled around.
Speaker 4: Right, I gather there was an auto show era.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was one year where it was the Car Show,
Speaker 1: and then now it is the AI Show. But then
Speaker 1: you still have like I think South Hall has always
Speaker 1: been filled with like gadgets that feel like do dads
Speaker 1: from like other parts of the world. And then I
Speaker 1: think as CTA continues to expand its space and its scope,
Speaker 1: you've got more and more of like people feeling like
Speaker 1: they can pay five thousand dollars to get a table
Speaker 1: come here and show there can like what's that term
Speaker 1: for something that does something too like a there's a
Speaker 1: term for it, like the like something that does something
Speaker 1: that some other brand does anyway, like a clone pretty
Speaker 1: much like yeah, exactly, so anyway, it's clone substitute beeps
Speaker 1: of like, oh my gosh, I saw so many dice
Speaker 1: and the hair dryer dudes this year.
Speaker 2: You know, I saw so many different kinds of the
Speaker 2: same battery pack.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also love battery packs.
Speaker 1: I saw so many smart rings. I saw so many
Speaker 1: you know, it's the one year there was massage chairs everywhere,
Speaker 1: and now it's like their transformer massage chairs everywhere. It's
Speaker 1: it is, to an extent always that kind of show.
Speaker 2: Somewhat pivot here, but one of pieces of gadget's coverage
Speaker 2: was about these new.
Speaker 4: Like vacuums they with the arms.
Speaker 2: Can you hold me through what the hell that is?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean you had Charissan on your show recently.
Speaker 4: She's coining you covered its good. Yeah, very unfomous bell
Speaker 4: but yeah, no, she tell.
Speaker 2: Me about this.
Speaker 1: So so it started with robo Rock. I'm gonna paint
Speaker 1: a tail for you here. Robo Rock is one of
Speaker 1: the most well known names in the roboback space. And
Speaker 1: you know those spinning robot vacuums and go and clean
Speaker 1: your floors for you. The innovation in them has in
Speaker 1: the past or in recent years been like combining the
Speaker 1: vacuum and mopping features. Now they're like, how else do
Speaker 1: we innovate? Well, roboock builds a robotic arm into its
Speaker 1: disk of robo vac and the arm can come up
Speaker 1: and it has obviously sensors and stuff like that can
Speaker 1: detect obstacles in front of it and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is sock I need. Like in the past, the
Speaker 1: robot vacuum would get tripped up and maybe not you know,
Speaker 1: continue to vacuum right or go somewhere else. And now
Speaker 1: if it can pick up the sock, that's in its way,
Speaker 1: or toothbrush or hairbrush or whatever is in this way.
Speaker 1: It can put it away and then continue to clean
Speaker 1: the path that it was on, or you know, put
Speaker 1: it somewhere else. So somehow everyone was like, hell, yes,
Speaker 1: this is the thing that I wanted out my life,
Speaker 1: which makes sense. This is a real world application of
Speaker 1: something that well in the limited demo, yes, right, like
Speaker 1: it did work. It did seem to go up to
Speaker 1: a sock, pick it up and put it in the
Speaker 1: laundry basket that was.
Speaker 4: Jecks up to three hundred a little more than half
Speaker 4: a pound.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so roboocks vacuum only has that weight limit. And
Speaker 1: then and the funny thing is with ce as we
Speaker 1: were just talking about this, every other Robovat company was like,
Speaker 1: we also have arms. Here we go. Dreamy, for example,
Speaker 1: was supposed to only debut it's like stair climbing robot,
Speaker 1: which also is another obstacle in these homes, decided to
Speaker 1: show off its arm. But it's a more solid looking
Speaker 1: clamp situation that seems to be able to handle like
Speaker 1: way more weight. So yeah, exactly, I'm like, I good
Speaker 1: for you. You go to the gym, but you know,
Speaker 1: out vacuum that I don't know what you would call that,
Speaker 1: the transformer of vacuums, the optimus prime of vacuums maybe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, look, it's nice to see these
Speaker 1: companies innovate and then copy the heck out of each other. Yeah, but.
Speaker 4: Has like a you know, it's sort of reassuringly concrete
Speaker 4: relative to some of the area or stuff. Not only
Speaker 4: can you see what problem they're aiming to solve, but
Speaker 4: you can like sort of watch the process of competition
Speaker 4: playing out.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: In terms of that, whereas and the thing that I
Speaker 4: felt and you were you saw like actual crypto guys
Speaker 4: talking today, like the maximum amount of abstraction, the language
Speaker 4: where you're just kind of like we I don't even
Speaker 4: understand what you're what you're fixing for me here? Yeah,
Speaker 4: beyond like a comprehensive reimagining of my life that removes
Speaker 4: any personal agency and replaces it with your proprietary yeah,
Speaker 4: algorithms or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: So on the subject of robots, though, what else have
Speaker 2: you seen?
Speaker 1: Yeah, A lot of the robots we saw and liked anyway,
Speaker 1: we did a round up at Engadget mostly were these
Speaker 1: like cute, emotional support robots, Like.
Speaker 2: Everyone's talking about these them, but it seems that everyone
Speaker 2: actually likes them.
Speaker 1: We like them because they're cute, right, and they're like
Speaker 1: some of them are like eighty bucks. It's like eighty bucks.
Speaker 5: Yeah, why not?
Speaker 1: Like I would get I'm a person who has some
Speaker 1: form of self diagnosed OCD, which is I don't like
Speaker 1: pets because they mess up my place, right, and so
Speaker 1: I still want the warmth and tender love of a cute,
Speaker 1: little furry creature that can do its own thing but
Speaker 1: not poop. And they the idea of a furry robot
Speaker 1: that has warmth that can generates One of them does so.
Speaker 1: The not the Yukai engineering, the rope pet. The rope
Speaker 1: pet does generate warmth, and so it sort of feels
Speaker 1: comforting right when you have it on you. The other
Speaker 1: one that we saw is the Yukai engineering is mirum.
Speaker 1: It's something that stares at you. Yeah, that was when
Speaker 1: they curse.
Speaker 2: I really don't I have not seen this thing yet,
Speaker 2: but the idea of something staring at me really free.
Speaker 1: Though I don't know. I think it's a character personal.
Speaker 3: The tombot that we saw, Yeah, Leo, there's a dog
Speaker 3: for people with dementia that I mean, at first glance
Speaker 3: also did feel and look like a like a dog, right,
Speaker 3: And it's kind of just programmed where it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe you would you would benefit from having the companionship,
Speaker 3: but you you're, you're, you're dementias to it progressed for
Speaker 3: you to be able to take care.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: See that's a really good use case.
Speaker 2: You can't talk to them at all, because the only
Speaker 2: question I have there is if in the latter stages
Speaker 2: and experiences I've had mostly through friends, is wouldn't they
Speaker 2: forget about it? Would it not be jarring? But I
Speaker 2: honestly I really am rooting for them because that sounds lovely.
Speaker 2: That sounds like something that actually solves a problem of
Speaker 2: you can't really do contiguous care when you yourself are
Speaker 2: kind of out of sync with the world due to
Speaker 2: your condition. See, this is the thing, is we roll
Speaker 2: to the end of this show. It is nice to
Speaker 2: have a conversation where it's not entirely just yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know what that I a con man and another
Speaker 2: connon man were conning each other in front of me.
Speaker 1: It's just Vegas, no exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is that feeling of that's like the bit
Speaker 4: of it that has when I've felt overwhelmed by this
Speaker 4: beyond them, like the volume, like the physical challenge of
Speaker 4: just like walking for whatever twenty miles or this. There's
Speaker 4: the sense sometimes of like you're trying to take in
Speaker 4: the entire spectrum of like free market fuckery and form bite,
Speaker 4: you know, like from like the white label cable manufacturers
Speaker 4: on the bottom of things to the you know whatever
Speaker 4: the like Amazon or like just litteral you know, globe
Speaker 4: bestriding giants on the other one. That it's like you
Speaker 4: see the plankton and you see the whale sharks, and
Speaker 4: like every single thing in between is like it's a
Speaker 4: lot to sort of hold in your head. Yes, it
Speaker 4: makes the to me at least, it makes the actual
Speaker 4: products that seem to have actual use cases feel that
Speaker 4: much more valuable or welcome because there's you know, it's
Speaker 4: like I sort of know what it's about. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of this stuff that is impossible for me to parse.
Speaker 2: So how long have you been here is? Or how
Speaker 2: many days?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I landed January fourth, Saturday, and today is
Speaker 1: what Friday? So and I'm leaving tomorrow. I have big
Speaker 1: plans to go explore the desert or something, and I'm here,
Speaker 1: like to go and get on an ATV or something
Speaker 1: and go like just because today officially everyone's flying home
Speaker 1: from my team and so yeah.
Speaker 3: Not y'all salt or salt bed.
Speaker 1: I guess assault bed.
Speaker 3: I think it's you know if oh.
Speaker 1: Oh the flat light? Yeah, gotcha. No, I haven't go
Speaker 1: for a hike. Yeah, I want to do that after this,
Speaker 1: which is why when you ask me to stay for long,
Speaker 1: a girl was like, ed, not that long.
Speaker 4: I gotta go.
Speaker 1: I have to go visit a canyon. I have to
Speaker 1: do something lost in the mountains. If you would never
Speaker 1: hear from me again, you.
Speaker 2: Want to be very lost, just be me. So so far,
Speaker 2: what is your favorite thing you've seen? I say so far?
Speaker 2: As we talk about the end?
Speaker 1: Yeah, hard to choose. Can I say what is not
Speaker 1: the favorite thing I've seen?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: I've seen this video making the rounds. Now that I
Speaker 1: finally had some time to get back on my social
Speaker 1: media like binging habits and on Reddit and on a
Speaker 1: lot of social media platforms, this video of this AI
Speaker 1: sex robot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one hundred and seventy thousand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the one with the dark haired, dark long hair,
Speaker 1: looking like they're falling off a chair.
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, when we will hit the brake in like
Speaker 2: eight minutes, let'll show you a picture. But it is
Speaker 2: really funny because I love that there's always one company
Speaker 2: that does something like this where they just everyone experiences
Speaker 2: the Uncanny Valley at once. Yeah, and they're like, but
Speaker 2: we got a ton of press out of it. Every
Speaker 2: article is just like this horrifying thing. A company is made,
Speaker 2: these these evil people. They talk about them like one
Speaker 2: of the bad guys from Full Metal Alchemists. They like
Speaker 2: the monstrosities they have summoned, and like nailed it.
Speaker 3: I saw something that kind of reminded me of this
Speaker 3: where it was and it was this humanoid robot and
Speaker 3: it was very loudly, clearly saying I'm a text based AI, do.
Speaker 1: Not have a body, and it's fully imp.
Speaker 3: And I was just like, Okay, that's this is a
Speaker 3: good gimmick because that only comes up. I stood there
Speaker 3: for about ten minutes. That only comes up like once
Speaker 3: every seven minutes for a while the rest of the time,
Speaker 3: you can do the little gimmick where you're talking to
Speaker 3: it and it's speaking and you just don't hear that.
Speaker 3: It's like probably just literally a chatbot speaking out of
Speaker 3: the speakers, but you find tuned it it looks human, right,
Speaker 3: and you got a chance to advertise whatever AI platform
Speaker 3: platform that it is that the company was connected to,
Speaker 3: which is ways way.
Speaker 4: It's like, w it's a waste. Oh that's a tough one,
Speaker 4: hey baby, I somehow missed the Hall of Uncanny humanoids,
Speaker 4: which is like, thank goodness, and it's still a couple
Speaker 4: of hours left.
Speaker 1: I guess I could go down.
Speaker 2: I just sort of robot with like a Donald Trump
Speaker 2: masco on took a picture then immediately deleted it because
Speaker 2: I know when someone's trying to get coverage. I know
Speaker 2: when someone's just Donald.
Speaker 4: In sense that was the case with the sex spot
Speaker 4: that they were just basically like, I mean this we
Speaker 4: got mentioned in the Wall Street Journal. They called this
Speaker 4: the embodiment of everything that's wrong with temporary culture.
Speaker 1: You know, like, yeah, no, I think to your point,
Speaker 1: the it's refreshing for me to see the pr angle
Speaker 1: of this that you're thinking of. I know, I'm just
Speaker 1: there like, oh right, yeah, this is a cheap method
Speaker 1: to employ I I didn't get that vibe. We didn't
Speaker 1: even cover it. None of it was not even on
Speaker 1: our radars, Like yeah.
Speaker 2: Because don't encourage them. But also back to the earlier theme,
Speaker 2: it's like a thing, a thing made by someone who
Speaker 2: is not actually interested in people having sex or meaning
Speaker 2: exactly direct SEXU relationships. It's like, what are these ugly
Speaker 2: pigs that never have sex? One a horrible robot that
Speaker 2: looks like kind of like a woman, so they can
Speaker 2: have their horrible sex in a locked room, criminalizing sex,
Speaker 2: treating it like this ugly thing that we should hide
Speaker 2: from the world. Were also kind of making fun of
Speaker 2: people who.
Speaker 1: Yeah, making fun of their target audience, which is the
Speaker 1: irony of that is so strange.
Speaker 2: This is empathy and joy and honesty about sex, which
Speaker 2: is like a meaningful thing that people should explore.
Speaker 1: It's part of life. Yeah, I disagree. Is how we
Speaker 1: got here.
Speaker 3: Listen to Protestants were onto.
Speaker 1: Something I love. It seemed to be fifty to fifty
Speaker 1: split on this. It's pretty normal about it.
Speaker 4: Before I came to Las Vegas. Now I'm taking a
Speaker 4: hard stance to get this ship out.
Speaker 3: Sex is out in twenty twenty five, before I came
Speaker 3: here as a freak and I'm leaving with some some change.
Speaker 1: I hear about crypto apparently what you're a convert now?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I you know, I think I should be
Speaker 3: on the blockchain.
Speaker 2: I think, oh gosh, oh god, you know someone's done yeah,
Speaker 2: like with unutterable horrors that has now that it's been uttered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who knows what's going.
Speaker 2: On in Thistle Street general cs, abomination.
Speaker 3: Of the Yeah, yeah, I bet money is someone I
Speaker 3: know like them or a friend is making it right now.
Speaker 2: They should be making something else. They should like getting
Speaker 2: their affairs in order. When I find not, that's it.
Speaker 2: So as we as we approached the break, here, is
Speaker 2: there anything else you're going to see on the show?
Speaker 2: Are you've just done?
Speaker 1: Okay? So I'm here for personal interest.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Last night I was supposed to already be done working,
Speaker 1: but I went to the Venetian Expo and I saw
Speaker 1: some like last minute accessibility related products that's always been
Speaker 1: like a topic I pay attention to myself. We actually,
Speaker 1: I'm very proud to say this, and Gadget's like best
Speaker 1: of Sea as winner, like the best in show. Best
Speaker 1: of all the things we saw was a smart cane
Speaker 1: for the blind.
Speaker 2: So we talked about this and it's good, like because
Speaker 2: my worry with it was a it needs an Internet
Speaker 2: connection if it's going GPT thing. But it works.
Speaker 1: It worked, Yeah, and in the busy wife like convention
Speaker 1: floor where like you assume the Wi Fi is like
Speaker 1: clogged as as shit, right, and I did not clarify
Speaker 1: or verify what type of Internet connection was using. Was
Speaker 1: it on device? I bet it's not because there's a
Speaker 1: very thin, like well made device, like they folded it
Speaker 1: up unfolded it showed me. I held it in my
Speaker 1: hand and used it a bit. It seems to work
Speaker 1: really well.
Speaker 2: It's the white like on it.
Speaker 1: It is slightly heavier than I think you're conventional like
Speaker 1: folding cane for people who are visually impaired, but not
Speaker 1: too much heavier. Not to be clear, this is like
Speaker 1: a second generation of an existing product. The first one
Speaker 1: was a bit heavier, so they've refined it. They've made
Speaker 1: the handle a little easier to hold. They've replaced like
Speaker 1: a touchscreen sort of button situation with tactile buttons, which
Speaker 1: should have been in the first one, right, like why
Speaker 1: didn't you think of this? So they they have made improvements.
Speaker 1: Can you to and he have a pretty legitimate partner
Speaker 1: in TDK who's like a big or more established company
Speaker 1: to see this through. Look to your point, ed, z ed,
Speaker 1: to your point. This thing at least if it dies,
Speaker 1: if it runs out of battery, it's still just a can.
Speaker 2: This is what Crisaer I believe said about it. It's
Speaker 2: like it still functions as a device. It's just the
Speaker 2: Wi Fi thing, is what it's because if it's if
Speaker 2: the whole thing is a model.
Speaker 1: Well, but it's not entirely like a chat GBT only.
Speaker 1: I mean the term by turn navigations is something that
Speaker 1: is quite important to the concept here, and the fact
Speaker 1: that it will like that has a speaker on board
Speaker 1: to like answer questions and stuff like that. So those
Speaker 1: are important things. But it's also got like a flashlight
Speaker 1: on board those sorts of things that don't require Internet
Speaker 1: right for example. So that's something we you know, should
Speaker 1: definitely clarify. We have the contact information about people we
Speaker 1: can get in touch and find out.
Speaker 2: I would love to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll find out.
Speaker 2: So as we come towards the right Edward Guise journey,
Speaker 2: Weacking People find.
Speaker 3: You newsletter The Tuckbubble dot Substock dot Com podcast. This
Speaker 3: Machine Kills and then Big Black Jack a bit on
Speaker 3: Twitter and Blue Sky Shelan. We can people find you.
Speaker 1: It feels like every social media app is closing, So
Speaker 1: sure c h R O I n N dot, bskuy
Speaker 1: dot Social is the safest one to say an email,
Speaker 1: sure ch r at ngadget dot com or just in gadget.
Speaker 2: Dot and of course then Gadget I'll be putting the
Speaker 2: links to the best show in the notes. Don't worry,
Speaker 2: mister Rothwacken.
Speaker 1: People find defector dot com and the Distraction podcast and.
Speaker 2: Also it's Christmastown podcast. I'm at Zitron. You can find
Speaker 2: me everywhere everywhere. You just Google takes biggest Nastiest Baby,
Speaker 2: and that's what I pop up past. Now, if you're
Speaker 2: a big nasty baby and you love products because you're.
Speaker 7: Way I love.
Speaker 2: I've got all this money and I don't way to
Speaker 2: put it or don't know what podcast where, then just
Speaker 2: follow the ads off to this. You'll have something and
Speaker 2: we're back. So Sherlin Shelin. We talked just before this
Speaker 2: about this infrared mask. Now I say this for both
Speaker 2: personal and professional reasons. What was this and why does
Speaker 2: what does the infrared mask thing?
Speaker 3: Do.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's not just infrared. This is Shark's Cryoglow
Speaker 1: and it debuted at CEUs twenty twenty five. It is
Speaker 1: the latest in a string of like full face like
Speaker 1: light based mask devices. You've probably maybe you've heard of
Speaker 1: their faces.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm going to be completely honest. I've been
Speaker 2: targeted with these things. Yes, masks you put on the
Speaker 2: kind of lose something to you and just being so
Speaker 2: because I have like gaunt eyes, I look like I'm
Speaker 2: Polish British.
Speaker 1: It's not you're too mean to yourself, but god I am.
Speaker 2: But that's part of the show. But for real, though,
Speaker 2: what do these things actually why do you use them
Speaker 2: as a person?
Speaker 1: Okay, So, red light therapy, when used with effective components,
Speaker 1: it is suppose to help like anti aging, help reduce
Speaker 1: fine lines or signs of signs of aging, finance, wrinkles.
Speaker 1: The blue light is supposed to help with antibacterial so
Speaker 1: it's good for acne. Purportedly, infrared is helping with some
Speaker 1: level of rejuvenation under the skin as well as penetrating
Speaker 1: the layers of the skin. I know this is because
Speaker 1: of the facials that I take, and I include the
Speaker 1: light therapy in the salon. I feel like they work,
Speaker 1: but I go for the like Salon grade ones, so
Speaker 1: that's like probably going to work better and than any
Speaker 1: of these home treatments. I've been very skeptical, skeptical of
Speaker 1: devices like the Solo Wave, which is a smaller wand
Speaker 1: with smaller COMPONENTSLD bulbs don't seem as as a fillender.
Speaker 2: There is a laser safety specialist. It's currently he's just
Speaker 2: got his head in his Sharon, please keep.
Speaker 1: Talking about Yeah, I'm not sure how effective, right, Like
Speaker 1: it's so hard to tell with these things, like when
Speaker 1: you have to use them for six months to like
Speaker 1: see any Resultsay, no, oh no, I don't. I mean
Speaker 1: I don't think they're completely unsafer useless. Right.
Speaker 2: He's not saying that, he's just going to he would
Speaker 2: come over and say something about how lazist. Just sorry, Phil,
Speaker 2: come over. Why are you complaining?
Speaker 3: Grab a chair, Grab a chair.
Speaker 4: Please share your microphone with him so he can have
Speaker 4: his party.
Speaker 5: I wasn't complaining.
Speaker 4: You had your head in your hands. Yes, now he's
Speaker 4: taking a knape.
Speaker 5: Because now this is just when I once again would
Speaker 5: like to take a moment to really give thanks to
Speaker 5: the deeply overworked, put upon, and underfunded folks at the
Speaker 5: Food and Drug Administration, specifically for the Center for Device
Speaker 5: and Radiologic Heal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree for whom None of.
Speaker 5: These products ever get to them, nor do they get approved.
Speaker 1: Are they not like home? I feel like there have
Speaker 1: to be like home versions of this stuff.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of looking at there are what did
Speaker 2: the cryo one do?
Speaker 1: So the cryo part of it where these two metallic
Speaker 1: plates are under the eye and they were just cold,
Speaker 1: and it was so comfortable that felt, And that's very
Speaker 1: useful for ski exactly exactly the important thing that having
Speaker 1: had products like this come through where I work at
Speaker 1: exceptional expense because they have success managed to sell them
Speaker 1: to NFL teams.
Speaker 5: I've had to stop people from spending hundreds of thousands
Speaker 5: of dollars for you have gotten an ir hot red
Speaker 5: light therapy unit. What it's doing is providing heat. How
Speaker 5: is that different than the hot lamp at McDonald's. It's
Speaker 5: considerably cheaper or alternatively, the thing we have literally been
Speaker 5: using since time immemorial hot water bottles now in a
Speaker 5: face mask form. It's to get it where it needs
Speaker 5: to be. That is valuable putting an ir diode in it.
Speaker 1: Is not okay.
Speaker 2: So nothing wrong with the face mask.
Speaker 5: Then, no other than do not sell the sematical product.
Speaker 2: Do not well, no one does.
Speaker 5: Don't try to make a claim. Do not allude to
Speaker 5: a claim, which many people are I want to find
Speaker 5: to let you make that assumption for them. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: if they're feeling really good, they actually put a disclaimer
Speaker 5: on their product so they I don't have to afford
Speaker 5: them to the FDA.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you need to do that. I have
Speaker 2: some so too as well.
Speaker 5: Please absolutely, But coming so this.
Speaker 2: Mask, so you have the cold bits, So is that
Speaker 2: to help with ibag semis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just to help with like exactly tightening the
Speaker 1: skin back up or just you know, feeling fresher when
Speaker 1: you've had a rough night. And so the heat and
Speaker 1: you use these so I've used it for like a minute,
Speaker 1: so don't But you've used the masks in general though,
Speaker 1: Oh no, the other two No, actually, I mean just
Speaker 1: the inforation. Yes, I have used the Salon greed ones,
Speaker 1: not the ADM.
Speaker 2: What do they do like, it's it's just the heat
Speaker 2: kind of Yeah.
Speaker 1: You're supposed to put them on your face and then
Speaker 1: turn like a four minute, eight minute, six minute session
Speaker 1: and then yeah, the not heat necessarily the ir ones
Speaker 1: do you have heat? The red light therapy just shines
Speaker 1: the light on you. There's the blue light depending on
Speaker 1: which treatment you selected. And the cold for me was
Speaker 1: the only thing I could really walk away from the
Speaker 1: experience having felt and it sounds I was so I
Speaker 1: was very pleased with it. I will tell you I
Speaker 1: have come around on these devices. I used to be
Speaker 1: hugely skeptical because I always thought they were ineffective, Like
Speaker 1: how can you get a tiny light bulb to do anything? Really?
Speaker 1: And to like the same point we're making everyone, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: like it's it's heat, It's why do you need an
Speaker 1: expensive device that their body like device is six hundred dollars,
Speaker 1: the competing Dennis Groves doctor Dennis Groves device is four
Speaker 1: fifty five. This is three forty nine. And that's part
Speaker 1: of the reason I was intrigued. It's like, Okay, you're
Speaker 1: bringing it down, You're doing something different with the cryo.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more I think. I mean, I quoted
Speaker 1: the SVP of product development from Shark on this in
Speaker 1: my article, which is I was like the theair body.
Speaker 1: One vibrates and you know, to massage your skin, and
Speaker 1: I think the company probably touts some benefits to vibration
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I think I know the
Speaker 1: answer to this, but this is do shark cryo glow
Speaker 1: vibrate And they're like, there's no vibration. This is a
Speaker 1: skincare device. Vibration does nothing for the skin. And I
Speaker 1: was like, you tell me, girl, you tell me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I was like I needed this exactly. And it's like
Speaker 1: we're I think, as we see more competition in this
Speaker 1: space where hopefully we'll see more people focus on what's
Speaker 1: actually going to work in this sort of device where
Speaker 1: there's a lot of like junk science. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of like and my brain is so not working, but
Speaker 1: like stuff that doesn't quite work.
Speaker 2: It's you do science stuff, and it's they make these claims,
Speaker 2: and they do it at the show where everyone's making
Speaker 2: some molobally claims.
Speaker 1: It's such a challenge to parse through all of it,
Speaker 1: but also.
Speaker 4: How does can I ask it just as it editorially? Yeah,
Speaker 4: like how do I know that you You know? The
Speaker 4: short answer is you work with a bunch of smart
Speaker 4: people that know their fields and stuff. Like that, how
Speaker 4: do you know like which, because there's we saw multiple
Speaker 4: smart canes. I don't know if we saw the one
Speaker 4: that you all awarded, Like, how can you tell if
Speaker 4: it's if it's good or not. That's kind of a
Speaker 4: remedial way of phrasing it. My brain's also not but
Speaker 4: we can just whatever make our little dolphin sounds back
Speaker 4: and forth. Yeah, trying to get there with you.
Speaker 1: I think it's partly because in Gadget has had such
Speaker 1: a history of covering CEOs. We have the process down pad.
Speaker 1: We start the process the second we get the full
Speaker 1: exhibit or list for shows like Unveiled, and.
Speaker 2: Patrick actually woke us through the process.
Speaker 1: Yeah of course.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, for this was my first year like fully
Speaker 1: running the show for the team, and I started later
Speaker 1: than I wanted to. Like since July, I've been like,
Speaker 1: we need to start playing CEOs right and we at
Speaker 1: least get the trouble and accommodation booked ahead of time.
Speaker 1: But this year we started like November, which was late
Speaker 1: for us, and it was very late. I was very nervous.
Speaker 1: But the CTA also didn't have a lot of the
Speaker 1: directories for us to pass through until the week before Christmas.
Speaker 1: So we spend all two weeks. II did and take
Speaker 1: time off during the Christmas break, and I just spent
Speaker 1: it looking at exhibitor lists and we google every single
Speaker 1: name that is an exhibitor. We find out what they do,
Speaker 1: and if we don't, we'll reach out. We'll find their
Speaker 1: pr email address, We'll reach out and be like, what
Speaker 1: are you showing at CES. Then we'll do the research
Speaker 1: of like what is in the space, what else is
Speaker 1: already in the space, is it new? Is it like expensive?
Speaker 4: Is a junk?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And then the process actually happens before we fly off
Speaker 1: to Vegas. When we do get here, then we make
Speaker 1: the assignments of like we're going to unveil, We're going
Speaker 1: to Pepcom, We're going to these booths. These are the
Speaker 1: things that actually look interesting. We'll go and look at them.
Speaker 1: These are things that we don't know if they're good
Speaker 1: or not. We need to investigate them. We have a
Speaker 1: tag internally called investigate, and so we go look at
Speaker 1: the thing on the show floor. We have our reporters
Speaker 1: go out talk to the company. And then also because
Speaker 1: we're in Vegas, the research is going to be limited
Speaker 1: to what we can google within two minutes, right to
Speaker 1: make a call on whether this is important, but yes,
Speaker 1: we then we try to match the people with expertise
Speaker 1: in the space to the product, so at least they
Speaker 1: have a wealth of information.
Speaker 4: Audio and oh my god, he's so good, right, but
Speaker 4: that's the thing. You have specialists.
Speaker 1: We have so much. Yeah, So Billy Steele's our specialist
Speaker 1: on audio. I mean, the vendro was here. He's our
Speaker 1: chip guy.
Speaker 2: Oh he was stalking in video.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all in video all day and NPCs as well,
Speaker 1: I mean in video. I mean we have a bunch
Speaker 1: of chip people too, which I'm so grateful for. And
Speaker 1: we have multiple experts on some categories and they can
Speaker 1: trade information. I wish you would get a chance to
Speaker 1: see the debates that happen in our room sometimes, right, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: next year, next year, this will be the Engadget podcast
Speaker 1: basically will have the topic exp.
Speaker 2: We've got three of you on. I'm happy to have more.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you've had so many. I mean, there is
Speaker 1: such a diversity of voices and opinions on the team
Speaker 1: to which I really like. And when they fight it out,
Speaker 1: that's my favorite because I'm like, yeah, we can't agree
Speaker 1: to disagree.
Speaker 2: But also I've been quite critical of some of the
Speaker 2: tech media on here, and I really this show is
Speaker 2: not about like just see us. It's about kind of
Speaker 2: explaining how the tech media functions because it's very easy too.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean this is this insult to a gadget.
Speaker 2: You could put it the c Net or even the
Speaker 2: Virgin Yeah, definitely tech crunch. It's you think, oh, they
Speaker 2: just turn up, and then they go it's the big company.
Speaker 2: Oh look at a big television, big but when there
Speaker 2: is actually quite a refined decade or more process that's
Speaker 2: gone into it. And also covering this show is insane?
Speaker 1: Is That was the bit that was like interesting to
Speaker 1: hear for.
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously it sucks that you had to spend
Speaker 4: your entire holiday season parsing a list of twenty five hundred,
Speaker 4: three thousand hour many companies are, but it seems like
Speaker 4: it's so patently unmanageable, like it is, it was unmanageable
Speaker 4: for us.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: You probably did see everything, ever, because you were here
Speaker 4: longer than me, or came close to that.
Speaker 3: I don't see the day I discovered that that there
Speaker 3: was a cryptal pavilion that had been going on for
Speaker 3: the entire time. Yeah, and I felt like I had
Speaker 3: I didn't see it. I looked everywhere, you know, I
Speaker 3: accidentally stumbled on it because I was like.
Speaker 1: What am I doing in? Yeah, and that is like
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess that's like sort of what happens
Speaker 4: with the show like this that like you know, the
Speaker 4: idea is that you know, for them, I guess the
Speaker 4: business is you said, whatever it is, five thousand dollars
Speaker 4: a table for starters, and then it probably significantly more. Exactly,
Speaker 4: it's like, so you don't say no to anybody unless
Speaker 4: it's like a women's health Yeah, I guess, yeah they don't.
Speaker 1: We don't do that. But the idea of trying to
Speaker 1: manage something this size, it's it's impressive. Like that's like
Speaker 1: a you know, I I have so much self doubts.
Speaker 1: I'm always like did we cover everything? That we miss something?
Speaker 1: And it's you're always going to So that's why I
Speaker 1: had to, like I let the team PEP talk with this,
Speaker 1: like we're here. Number one, we made it here. Some
Speaker 1: people missed their flight, some people were sick, right number two,
Speaker 1: something's going to go wrong and oh yeah, we'll just
Speaker 1: have to accept it. Now.
Speaker 2: That was the first thing I said to Phil.
Speaker 1: Well, good, there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something will go.
Speaker 1: Wrong exactly, so we cannot get hung up on like
Speaker 1: I missed this thing. I'd say, I if I do
Speaker 1: that to myself at this show and to my team,
Speaker 1: we will just never walk away from this feeling like
Speaker 1: we've done our draw you.
Speaker 2: Cover just being great. And I say this like truly
Speaker 2: as a reader of Engadget from fifteen plus years, like
Speaker 2: like a long.
Speaker 1: Long time just turned twenty something, twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. And it's like this is a
Speaker 2: mammoth show to cover and it's hard to And I've
Speaker 2: had the same thing running. This is my first CS.
Speaker 2: I've run better offline on and it's like, yeah, I'm like, shit,
Speaker 2: I miss this. I'll see an article go and'll be like,
Speaker 2: I'm the worst. I have failed the show. I've endangered
Speaker 2: the mission and it's just impossible to do. So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna change tech because you actually and this is a
Speaker 2: miss of mind. Can you tell me what the Samsung
Speaker 2: bally what this robot is? Because I've seen the articles
Speaker 2: and I get I did not get a chance to
Speaker 2: look at it.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that it's even here at CS
Speaker 1: twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Five, or someone's been showing pictures of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bali. Bali's actually been at CS twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: while it was debuted at CS twenty twenty four. But
Speaker 1: the concept of this like rolling robot that Samsung makes
Speaker 1: has been around for like what five years, I want
Speaker 1: to say at least, if not longer, and it's in
Speaker 1: its like most mature iteration. The one that's going on sale.
Speaker 1: It's a bowling ball sized yellow robot that rolls around
Speaker 1: your house. It's got a built in projector. It's got
Speaker 1: the speakers built in. It listens to you speak. You
Speaker 1: can talk to it and be like, oh trying, you know,
Speaker 1: open the shades or like Casarta, the oven or whatever.
Speaker 1: It talks to your smart home appliances. It can beam
Speaker 1: like your screen on the ceiling, on a wall, on
Speaker 1: the floor, wherever makes sense for you. The pitch was like,
Speaker 1: it's this AI fitness companion, but it's also your home assistant,
Speaker 1: all of these things. The news this CEES, because last
Speaker 1: year was when they showed it off this CES is
Speaker 1: that it's supposedly going to be available in the first
Speaker 1: half of this year. I will caveat that. When they
Speaker 1: first announced Bali properly in CS twenty twenty four, they
Speaker 1: did say it will be available in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: So it's like, Samsung, are you are you really going
Speaker 1: to push this out this year?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: More of that claims to be cute. I guess send
Speaker 1: Via do that for fraid.
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna say seeing the pic, like again, I
Speaker 4: don't there's a part every time somebody has talked about
Speaker 4: like being like, yeah, it follows you around, it can
Speaker 4: project stuff. There's it's not a good question. But the
Speaker 4: thing that's in my head is just like, really me,
Speaker 4: but are you sure? That sounds really hard?
Speaker 1: That's it. It is a cute little guy.
Speaker 4: And if you think this is like something that I
Speaker 4: U sort of picked up, I guess also from Chris
Speaker 4: of that does it does seem to be like one
Speaker 4: of the themes of the Cees is cute little guys.
Speaker 1: So this this fits.
Speaker 4: This is like, you know, it doesn't just blinking. What
Speaker 4: follows you around turns your stove on.
Speaker 2: I say this with my Bengal cat Babo, who is
Speaker 2: my familiar and he follows me around and he mows
Speaker 2: at me, wants to be an eye level.
Speaker 1: Screaming at you.
Speaker 4: I really enjoy that.
Speaker 2: That's his sister, Pokey. I will post it go to
Speaker 2: my socials. Pokey's his little system, My beautiful screaming queen
Speaker 2: who loves to scream at me. She just wants affection
Speaker 2: all the time. And who doesn't. Baboo is the beautiful
Speaker 2: smelt Bengal who's mostly just stopped and he hasn't meow anyway.
Speaker 2: I guess that's why I don't need this thing, because
Speaker 2: I already have something amazing to follow me. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, putting that aside, why do I need
Speaker 2: a robot following me? Why is to what end is
Speaker 2: it following me? Oh, it's going to project something? What
Speaker 2: is it going to project? Right?
Speaker 3: And I also asked when did the shift to like
Speaker 3: affectionate intelligence.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, that's actually a good point.
Speaker 3: I mean, has that been something you guys have detected
Speaker 3: over the past few years.
Speaker 1: My opinion is, I mean, the IBO has been around
Speaker 1: for for a very long time, and it's peaked everyone's interest,
Speaker 1: but it never really took off. Nobody really sold them
Speaker 1: but robotics if you really look at the space in
Speaker 1: the real world where is robotics. Robotics is in manufacturing
Speaker 1: ROBOTICSYSM warehouses. They don't need to be humanoid robots, None
Speaker 1: of them needs to be. They just need to be
Speaker 1: arms that repeat and action over and over again and.
Speaker 2: Do it so well.
Speaker 1: I value in the exactly do the things that we
Speaker 1: don't want to do? These things you know, we've I
Speaker 1: think we are collectively learning that the humanoid robots don't
Speaker 1: quite make sense other than to impress people to stalk
Speaker 1: in AWE created movies, remind people about the terminator exactly,
Speaker 1: and the actual helpful robot arms in those like manufacturing
Speaker 1: spaces are not as sexy and not as appealing visually.
Speaker 1: So what else is that far anyway for something might
Speaker 1: be right? Sure, but then like what is the next
Speaker 1: space they saw? They looked to Eyebo, they looked to
Speaker 1: the cute ones. They realized people want cute. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they looked at Pepper as well. There is
Speaker 1: I think function and use for some of them in
Speaker 1: specific spaces once again, which is I think in the
Speaker 1: hospice care space, there's room for like telepresence robots, there's
Speaker 1: for like sort of some sort of healthcare like, uh, robots.
Speaker 1: I go to this place called kupa revolving sushi.
Speaker 4: A conveyor belt place, Yes exactly, but that was her
Speaker 4: number one ship all through our twenties.
Speaker 1: That was yeah, forever, like whatever her birthday. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is different places.
Speaker 2: Yes, you did not't say that. I just take you
Speaker 2: just said her her.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. Yeah, Scarlett Johansson's voice.
Speaker 4: Do you know them? But my wife loves the you know,
Speaker 4: like whatever a piece of nigary slowly approaching you and
Speaker 4: you get to be like.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite thing. Kua Revolving Sushi has a robot
Speaker 1: that brings you your drinks when you request for it, right,
Speaker 1: Like all the servers have to do is place your
Speaker 1: drink on the tier.
Speaker 2: And then I was in career at the beginning of
Speaker 2: last year there was a dishwash dishbot but it worked
Speaker 2: like and it seemed to actually work these like robotics
Speaker 2: is here, but like many things, I guess it's not
Speaker 2: that exciting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this comes back to something that we were talking
Speaker 4: about yesterday, like if the actual applications for a lot
Speaker 4: of these robots are like, like you said, it's like
Speaker 4: either elder care or accessibility and stuff like that. That
Speaker 4: seems like it's the case for a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 4: A lot of the sort of like augmented reality is
Speaker 4: if that's the term for it, I don't know if
Speaker 4: it's a R or whatever.
Speaker 1: Not the thing like the brain implant, what do you
Speaker 1: call it?
Speaker 2: You're a link Novai, Yeah, yeah, but like one that
Speaker 2: was made up, so like just your control of.
Speaker 4: It's like all of that seems to be about helping
Speaker 4: people who have these and yet like it's feel like
Speaker 4: with this robot, like you make it cute because and
Speaker 4: you show when you're like demoing it for people, you
Speaker 4: don't want people to think about being sick.
Speaker 1: I guess that's not good for advertising.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you show them instead this thing that like
Speaker 4: I'm not sure that people really want to be like
Speaker 4: followed around their house, Like I'll turn my own stove on, honestly,
Speaker 4: Like I don't want anyone else to be Yeah yeah,
Speaker 4: yeah right. But it's so there's something funny about the
Speaker 4: idea of like inventing this thing that actually is useful.
Speaker 4: Actually it could add value to people's lives, but you.
Speaker 1: Can't sell it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a way, here's the thing actually reflects its utility.
Speaker 1: I Again, another thing I've ranted about for a couple
Speaker 1: of years now is how much we're failing people in
Speaker 1: terms of elder care, long term care for people in
Speaker 1: late late stages of life. And the reason we do
Speaker 1: that as a society is because I think companies and
Speaker 1: corporations don't see value in providing this sort of care
Speaker 1: or more products in this space, right, And so that's
Speaker 1: why they don't want to tell you that this is
Speaker 1: better suited for like older care caregiver situations. Even though
Speaker 1: there are companies that will come out and say that,
Speaker 1: bigger companies won't want to do it because like a
Speaker 1: PR I'm thinking this is a PR conversation, I don't
Speaker 1: know that they want to say that we're investing in
Speaker 1: this thing that serves a very niche audience that might
Speaker 1: die in a few years.
Speaker 2: And there is a reason then that absolutely is it
Speaker 2: because you don't get a growth.
Speaker 1: Market exactly, the growth growth mindset that sucks exactly.
Speaker 2: And you also don't get growth out of things with
Speaker 2: elderly people other than being a private, privatey equity firm
Speaker 2: that buys old people.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean this is This is one thing I
Speaker 3: think of with the care economy, which is like the
Speaker 3: growth of it has been decided largely by the consequences
Speaker 3: of private equity firms laying waste.
Speaker 2: To infrastructure seeing they can build into it, and then the.
Speaker 3: The evaporation of resources for facilities leading to these firms,
Speaker 3: these on demand firms, coming in and applying the uber
Speaker 3: model to them and saying, look like we will create
Speaker 3: a marketplace where the nurses will bid each other to
Speaker 3: the lowest possible price. So it's come in without training.
Speaker 3: I mean training in the sense not like because they're
Speaker 3: not employees, they're not hold where things are, who to
Speaker 3: take care of, how to how to operate like that.
Speaker 4: Like itinerant nurse like traveling nurse economy and suck and that.
Speaker 3: And this makes me think of what we see sometimes
Speaker 3: with some of this technology that's being offered, and that
Speaker 3: you know, some of the things that we've seen would
Speaker 3: be very good and very useful and should be durable,
Speaker 3: sustainable businesses just offering care to help people are not
Speaker 3: able body to help people who are incognitive decline, who
Speaker 3: to help people who need care? And yet when we
Speaker 3: would talk with some of them, you could see like
Speaker 3: that's actually that's not always the first way they think
Speaker 3: or talk about it. They're also talking about like, oh,
Speaker 3: like this firm would love this application that we have,
Speaker 3: and it's like okay, but like that's not real. The
Speaker 3: thing that is real is this care. This this way
Speaker 3: you would have to be able to help people who
Speaker 3: need care. But you're you're kind of using it. Some
Speaker 3: of these firms feel like they're using it to bootstrap
Speaker 3: into the growth.
Speaker 1: You know, like you have to like bang.
Speaker 4: It's such a bizarre thing for me too, especially when
Speaker 4: you consider like what amazing I mean for the ones
Speaker 4: that actually exist, Like not everything that we saw, you know,
Speaker 4: exists in any sort of real stage yet, but like
Speaker 4: the idea that you have to like bang on the
Speaker 4: sort of fantastical growth possibilities instead of the actual service. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that you have created a thing that can you know,
Speaker 4: provide this very service with this remarkable bit of technology
Speaker 4: you did.
Speaker 2: There's no further ways to monetize the old person. I'm
Speaker 2: not I like that it's funny whatever, Well not for
Speaker 2: me because I'm like the joker, because I love for
Speaker 2: the sad things. But it's this sense of well, there's
Speaker 2: not why am I investing in these people? Like, why
Speaker 2: would I invest in the old person? They're going to
Speaker 2: die soon anyway, and we need.
Speaker 3: To get a sciety.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we live in a society.
Speaker 4: That's the part that's kind of weird about it, because
Speaker 4: it's not wrong to say that this is like a
Speaker 4: niche marketplace, correct, and yet it's like it's also not.
Speaker 4: It is also like one of the least niche experiences
Speaker 4: possible is getting old and die, Like that's a pretty
Speaker 4: universal human I mean, for those of us that are
Speaker 4: lucky to make it that far.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it's weird. I mean, I guess this is
Speaker 1: like sort of a going to.
Speaker 4: Be a recurring theme anywhere that you go to, like
Speaker 4: a trade show where people are trying to make a
Speaker 4: billion dollars hut end.
Speaker 1: I was very encouraged to see this year. There has
Speaker 1: been quite a lot more attention in this space. Right
Speaker 1: we saw the ARP had a I mean, I so
Speaker 1: I stopped by the h Tech pavilion on the show.
Speaker 2: But we really haven't heard about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I went there and the h Tech Pavilion,
Speaker 1: presented by ARP, I guess is just a space in
Speaker 1: the show floor. They have so many of these like
Speaker 1: dedicated spaces carved out. They had a speech that where
Speaker 1: they presented four special products I believe, well, the one
Speaker 1: I saw and I tried on were this pair of
Speaker 1: pants by Arcterix and a company called Skip that they've
Speaker 1: worked with. This prep pants is like like a robotic
Speaker 1: powered pants situation where you put them on and they
Speaker 1: have sort of almost like an exoskeleton to help you
Speaker 1: move and climb better. And we're at the point with
Speaker 1: products that are designed for improving life for people with
Speaker 1: mobility issues where it's not you don't have to be
Speaker 1: like it's not binary right, you don't have to be
Speaker 1: a full on paraplegic, and it's not crutches and wheelchairs.
Speaker 1: This is for people who have some pain, struggle with
Speaker 1: pain pain.
Speaker 2: And often these people are maybe thinking of someone in
Speaker 2: my family refused to get any fucking help because they like.
Speaker 1: I'm not nothing's wrong with me.
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking constant pain and have mobility.
Speaker 2: Yes, but these things sound kind of magical for me.
Speaker 1: These are these are going to be great, But these
Speaker 1: are for because they're Arctiator an outdoor like a Parel
Speaker 1: brand and that sort of thing. They're designed for like hiking.
Speaker 1: And that's so it's more like if you're at a
Speaker 1: stage in life where you're so burdened by some like
Speaker 1: like pain or body pain, that like going outside seems
Speaker 1: like such a pipe dream anymore, like climbing a mountain,
Speaker 1: level a hill, right, Like you can walk around, you
Speaker 1: can't really be active exactly, like challenges like scaling, like
Speaker 1: elevation and whatnot. This this is what this pair of
Speaker 1: pants is designed to.
Speaker 4: Were they powered by anything or were they just there's.
Speaker 1: A battery pack in the back of the pants.
Speaker 4: And in the waste they do Did they support the
Speaker 4: knees or the legs?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So the one I tried by Arcterics had three
Speaker 1: like braces, one around the ankle, one around the knee,
Speaker 1: and one around like the thigh, and then the robot
Speaker 1: arm which just kind of propel you in those moved
Speaker 1: around right, and it's design my demo, we had to
Speaker 1: go to like stairs because that's where you would demonstrate
Speaker 1: the effectiveness more. Yeah, it's supposed to push you up.
Speaker 1: I tried to do speed squads right in those. I
Speaker 1: don't I'm not the target market clearly, but I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like trying to see speed squads, and I
Speaker 1: think when I tried them they weren't on. But they're
Speaker 1: supposed to help you get from like the bent knee
Speaker 1: position to the up position more easily, which is where
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people struggle with pain.
Speaker 2: Well, I in the last few in like the last year,
Speaker 2: I've really got into yoga, and I would say a
Speaker 2: year ago, i'd have trouble getting on and off the floor, right,
Speaker 2: And I'm decent, Like I'm decently able, but like I
Speaker 2: don't have something wrong other than the fact that I
Speaker 2: was deeply inflexible. Being able to do that now is magic.
Speaker 2: But that took a shit ton of effort to get
Speaker 2: But also I didn't have any mobility issues that would
Speaker 2: have precluded me from doing yoga. Yeah, so this, do
Speaker 2: you know how expensive this is?
Speaker 1: Yea?
Speaker 2: How expensive we talk?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know the Octor Express.
Speaker 4: I was going to say that they have it doesn't
Speaker 4: have robot arms in it, It's still like expensive.
Speaker 2: How much we're talking?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think so they have no actual info ya,
Speaker 1: but the ballpark figure that I'm hearing is like five thousand,
Speaker 1: And I was like, are you going to talk to
Speaker 1: insurance providers? To get the subsidized. They were, like, they
Speaker 1: want to consider it. I don't think this is a product.
Speaker 1: The insurance providers have to decide whether to cover it.
Speaker 2: They barely cover medicine exactly.
Speaker 1: There you go, my I don't want to get into it.
Speaker 4: But and also I can't imagine you're like anybody's pants,
Speaker 4: Like you're not selling a lot of stuff at MSRP
Speaker 4: when it's five thousand dollars exactly.
Speaker 2: To be honest, though, secretly, this is the stuff I'm
Speaker 2: most excited about because like the idea of just putting
Speaker 2: on a suit that makes you able bodied for anyone
Speaker 2: is kind of magical. Yeah, Like I don't know, Like
Speaker 2: I was a very heavy kid, grown like three hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty five pounds, and that alone like didn't mean
Speaker 2: I was strong, which is very embarrassing when you're lodge high,
Speaker 2: will add. But nevertheless, like even when I got thin,
Speaker 2: I still felt quite weak and I still had like
Speaker 2: some joint issues even And it's like the idea that
Speaker 2: we can kind of level the playing field other than
Speaker 2: the fact it's five thousand dollars is kind of cool.
Speaker 1: You want to hear something. Absolutely after I saw those
Speaker 1: I walked downstairs to the Kickstarter booth, and the Kickstarter
Speaker 1: booth had a company from somewhere in Asia, I think
Speaker 1: Taiwan or China, I can't remember, called Hypershell, and they
Speaker 1: make like a non pants version of There's exoskeleton. It
Speaker 1: is between eight hundred to fifteen hundred dollars depending on
Speaker 1: the material car.
Speaker 2: When you say non pants, how does that?
Speaker 1: Yes? So it's this sort of brace that you strap
Speaker 1: on around your waist to start, and then you strap
Speaker 1: like two things to your knees and they're basically an exoskeleton.
Speaker 1: The reason is not on Engadget Communist. I haven't written
Speaker 1: it out yet. I'm still technically working, I guess, but
Speaker 1: chilling and yeah, and so they do the same thing
Speaker 1: the Arcto ex pants do, except for in an exoskeleton
Speaker 1: that you strap around your clothes. So cool.
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, i'll show you a video right now.
Speaker 4: I don't know if if you can, when will you
Speaker 4: write up your store?
Speaker 1: Just send me then I will send you the link.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping to do it tomorrow and have it up
Speaker 1: over the weekend on our website.
Speaker 2: And I just I think that this is what I
Speaker 2: wish CS or was, because if you think about what
Speaker 2: makes technology actually magical, it's stuff that makes you stronger
Speaker 2: connect with people. Quicker allows you to explore who you
Speaker 2: are and who other people are in an honest way.
Speaker 2: And when it gets worse, it's when people interfere.
Speaker 1: With that process or slap AI and everything or slap.
Speaker 2: AI and everything. So as we go, as we sadly
Speaker 2: come to the end, we've got four minutes left. Was
Speaker 2: there anything you were like, your favorite favorite thing? Was
Speaker 2: there something you miss Is there anything you really missed
Speaker 2: that you truly liked or despised?
Speaker 1: I can't something that made me laugh, but I kind
Speaker 1: of liked it sold What was that? So we start
Speaker 1: noticing a trend and yes, twenty twenty five, Chris I
Speaker 1: might have talked about it, but Dan Cooper on our
Speaker 1: team was the first one to crystallize this idea with
Speaker 1: this term. I mean I crystallied the idea without this
Speaker 1: fancy name that he came up with it. Please sit
Speaker 1: the classic Dan great term the hoc Tour show. I
Speaker 1: want to know, there was so much like saliva sensing,
Speaker 1: saliva detecting tech boy on that sick on that thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, when we walked into CEUs Unveiled, which
Speaker 1: is the first show on Sunday night. I already knew
Speaker 1: there were two saliva based like devices there. I was
Speaker 1: not expecting the most popular booth at CS Unveiled, where
Speaker 1: like crowds of people were around them the whole time.
Speaker 1: I couldn't even get into a demo this thing called
Speaker 1: salt spoon. Everyone was licking it. It was like everybody's
Speaker 1: putting things in their mouths and this I don't know.
Speaker 4: I got to so I it's a cool idea. They
Speaker 4: were not letting people put it in their mouth.
Speaker 1: At that point. There was like a video they probably
Speaker 1: ran out. They was giving away disposable ones that failed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were like a couple of them sitting on
Speaker 4: the counter and I like picked it up and I
Speaker 4: was like, I don't know, feels good, Like I don't
Speaker 4: like a spoon more, yes, but stranger. But then there
Speaker 4: was like a video of a guy eating the robin
Speaker 4: with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know you had to get like, do
Speaker 2: you like, Yeah, it's the one with the electromagnetic things
Speaker 2: to make you taste the saltiness form.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, So think about it if you're trying to
Speaker 1: consume like less sodium in your life, but you still
Speaker 1: want to have salty foods. This food supposed that if
Speaker 1: you use to spoon, it'll turn everything you put in
Speaker 1: your mouth by tricking your taste buds into something that's
Speaker 1: like thinking that something salty or saltier than it al.
Speaker 4: I learned about this from Jesse Ferrara, where I get
Speaker 4: all my scientific information. But this is apparently the same
Speaker 4: technology that people use for saltwater pools. That it's basically
Speaker 4: a way of like making something salty without like dumping
Speaker 4: a bunch of sodium into.
Speaker 3: So the idea is you will shy away from things
Speaker 3: that have a certain level of salt because they'll taste
Speaker 3: even more sot.
Speaker 2: I can answer this be because I've had a lot
Speaker 2: of emails I want to apologize to the people. We
Speaker 2: kind of turn on those up at this. It turns
Speaker 2: out there are people who have like real physical problems
Speaker 2: with salt. They have to It's not like I should
Speaker 2: have less, so it's if I have too much, I
Speaker 2: will be in physical and this is magical for them.
Speaker 2: It's like I want to like as the show goes on,
Speaker 2: as we approach the end, anything I really mess up,
Speaker 2: I will try and fix. But apparently like this is
Speaker 2: a big deal for those people you can like have salt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just like a diet thing too, Right,
Speaker 1: It's like some people have irritation, inflammation or I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's a salt allergy in the world, but right, hypertension.
Speaker 1: So you want hypertensions a diet based thing that I'm
Speaker 1: considering as an issue. Right, Like for healthy reasons, you
Speaker 1: still want to be able to taste salty foods. It's
Speaker 1: not about making something taste so salty that you will avoid.
Speaker 1: It is more drinking bland things that will then taste salty.
Speaker 3: Because of the use of this makes sense.
Speaker 4: It was like you also get that you can kind
Speaker 4: of like dial in the experience like what you want.
Speaker 4: I think there's isn't that right that It's like you
Speaker 4: can go from like one to four and how salty.
Speaker 1: I walked the periphery of the booth the whole time
Speaker 1: because I couldn't get inside. What was the other saliva
Speaker 1: based Yeah, let's find things you could spit on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there were two.
Speaker 2: We call it the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I uh here we are giggling about it.
Speaker 2: But it is weird.
Speaker 1: It is this is there are two devices. One is
Speaker 1: called the cordesans and the other is called hormometer. We're
Speaker 1: not fans of the Yeah, her hormometer like hormone meter.
Speaker 1: That's just a really funny it's a great portmanteau. I
Speaker 1: think hormometer is slightly further along in my opinion of
Speaker 1: the process. Basically, these are at home tests that you
Speaker 1: can use your saliva, that you can use on your
Speaker 1: saliva and they'll tell you how, much like cortisols in
Speaker 1: your kay.
Speaker 2: So I think the problem is the labeling, because everything
Speaker 2: you've described is wonderful exactly. Also, if not be described
Speaker 2: as saliva base.
Speaker 1: Well that was to me the way it came off, and.
Speaker 3: Saliva based like some.
Speaker 1: Faint their nose tasting notes.
Speaker 4: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Interesting. I like it because, like I'm really into like, uh,
Speaker 1: getting data about yourself, right, But I don't want blood
Speaker 1: testing all the time. I don't believe in the photos
Speaker 1: scanning of your face to tell your face age. I
Speaker 1: want you to actually use I guess bodily fluids to
Speaker 1: know what is up with me. And this seems smart, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's non invasive, it's an easy way, and there
Speaker 1: are so many ways that we can avoid going to
Speaker 1: the doctor. I guess it's not like going to a
Speaker 1: doctor is a bad thing. It is that like people
Speaker 1: want to know more about themselves. People have been strapping
Speaker 1: glucose monitors on themselves just to understand their blood sugar
Speaker 1: levels when they don't have diabetes. Right, So there's so
Speaker 1: many reasons people could benefit from analyzing their saliva in
Speaker 1: my opinion. For hormometer, they do both cortisol and progesterone levels.
Speaker 2: So what would those be just just for the cortisol.
Speaker 1: Yeah, cortisol is distress hormones, so the levels of cortisol
Speaker 1: are high or in higher stress. And then progesterone is
Speaker 1: something that people can use to track I guess fertility
Speaker 1: related things or cycle related or there's So I'm not
Speaker 1: velvers enough in the science here to tell you what
Speaker 1: else progester wants about.
Speaker 2: That makes all of us and sadly we have to
Speaker 2: come to the end of this part of the show,
Speaker 2: ed where can people find you?
Speaker 3: The tech bubble, dot substat, dot com, this machine Kills
Speaker 3: and Big black Jack of beIN on Twitter and blue
Speaker 3: Sky Shehlon where.
Speaker 2: Can people find you?
Speaker 1: I think I'll still be on the meta apps for
Speaker 1: a bit so Sherlyn Instagram, c h e r O
Speaker 1: r n n s t h e r A.
Speaker 4: M uh defector dot com, The Distraction Podcast It's Christmas
Speaker 4: Town Podcast, and David Jroth dot b s k y
Speaker 4: dot Social.
Speaker 2: Though I realized many of you PLoP my end, and
Speaker 2: indeed when you hear I'm hurt, you cheer and laugh
Speaker 2: and squeal and a wink. Nevertheless, if you don't want
Speaker 2: to cause me misery, you'll follow the following ads with
Speaker 2: your complete undivided attention. And we're back, and we're just
Speaker 2: talking about the fact that we each of us has
Speaker 2: two or three drinks at this point. We're not all right,
Speaker 2: it's not to destruction. It's just a little bit is
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. Okay, Well, we've already had complaints about
Speaker 2: the language, so let's just move on from that one.
Speaker 2: So well, once again joined by mister Phil Broughton, the
Speaker 2: health physicist. Just let's reintegrate you that and reintroduce you
Speaker 2: to the show.
Speaker 5: Allow me to introduce myself. Okay, So I'm Phil Broddon.
Speaker 5: I'm a health physicist, which is a radiation safety professional.
Speaker 5: I'm also a laser safety officer. So I take care
Speaker 5: of the full electro magnetic spectrum of radiation. I also
Speaker 5: am the weird shit guy and Phil Andrew Bartender.
Speaker 4: Phil is here at CEES showing the laser mask that
Speaker 4: he made that people can He's not FDA approving.
Speaker 5: I don't know that product. So you have seen that? No,
Speaker 5: have you seen the laser bra as well?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: That's that?
Speaker 4: Really? Is that real?
Speaker 5: That is real?
Speaker 3: What does it do?
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? You haven't been on the floor.
Speaker 5: No, this wasn't on the floor. This is just why
Speaker 5: the internet exists for sons.
Speaker 2: So Phil is someone I torture. Yes, we've been friends
Speaker 2: for fifteen years. Sorry, I also missed something out. Mister
Speaker 2: ed on Giso Junior is to.
Speaker 3: My right, wonderful Hello, and I'm now he's said, yeah,
Speaker 3: so she calling me?
Speaker 1: You haven't a laugh?
Speaker 4: You have? You're taking a pitch mate, mister.
Speaker 3: Cockles and searching my head? Can I do any accidents?
Speaker 1: Try it out?
Speaker 5: Bean?
Speaker 3: Oh one time I did have an English breakfast and
Speaker 3: I felt like I was gonna die.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's just how it feels to be British.
Speaker 1: Okay, back to all of your British levels maxed out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the British Saliveeian what.
Speaker 1: Let them don't let them win?
Speaker 2: Oh god, oh boy, there's so many directions. But back
Speaker 2: to philm So, why does this show frustrate you? So
Speaker 2: we've gone over the fire Marshal aspect, but just the
Speaker 2: general milieu of CES does appear to torture you.
Speaker 5: So so a lot of what vendors are coming to
Speaker 5: CES with are not despite the fact that it says
Speaker 5: consumer Electronics show, many of the things are not aimed
Speaker 5: for consumers, never meant for consumers, or these are not
Speaker 5: products that are actually on the market, not going to
Speaker 5: get to the market. And it's terrifying how many people
Speaker 5: who have come on the show have been talking to
Speaker 5: me separately at the bar have said that they've met
Speaker 5: people at the stalls who asked them, so, what do
Speaker 5: you think our products should do?
Speaker 4: No, that's not what you do.
Speaker 5: If you have a product you're going to sell to someone,
Speaker 5: you really better know what it does so it can
Speaker 5: be sold legally safely, well so.
Speaker 1: That it could do it.
Speaker 5: Oh well there's that too.
Speaker 4: Is that part the again asking an ignorant question? Okay,
Speaker 4: you what days in? You need to stop leading in
Speaker 4: with the item' not so I don't know a lot
Speaker 4: about c I mean I know something about like what
Speaker 4: this one you know, like and how it feels. Maybe
Speaker 4: that seems that does strike me as strange, the idea
Speaker 4: of showing up with something that's like halfway done, like
Speaker 4: they give me just like publishing a draft with a
Speaker 4: bunch of t ks in it and being like, I'm
Speaker 4: really interested in anybody's feedback on how you think this
Speaker 4: story should conclude.
Speaker 3: Well, after this, we're going to drive out west to
Speaker 3: a little place I like to call Palo Alto, a
Speaker 3: whole world that is built on stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the prototype, Well, yeah, it's like pizza.
Speaker 2: Alonso just madeen off for a three year deal to
Speaker 2: the Mets, which is news I'm giving to David allowed
Speaker 2: to do that. Yeah, Like it's much like that, like
Speaker 2: what will you do pizza? And that is actually a
Speaker 2: good question for the Mets at this point. But nevertheless,
Speaker 2: to feel that one if you want, please please have
Speaker 2: them some stuff. Handle the Mets real quick.
Speaker 1: Couldn't hurt.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: The Alonzo thing, I as sentimentally as a Mets fan,
Speaker 4: I hope he returns. I think he's declining. The Mets
Speaker 4: seem to think he's declining. He if he's making offers
Speaker 4: to them, maybe he thinks he's declining, but whatever, he
Speaker 4: seems very happy to be on the Mets. And I
Speaker 4: think that that is rare enough that I hope he stays.
Speaker 4: That's a completely straight faced.
Speaker 3: For listeners who don't know what are the Mets.
Speaker 1: The Mets are so they're one of the that's a
Speaker 1: great question.
Speaker 4: That's such a me thing to say. Thank you. Obviously
Speaker 4: you haven't been down to the Eureka level. They are
Speaker 4: as a it's an AI enabled.
Speaker 2: The mens, a private equity firm owned by a billionaire
Speaker 2: that ostensibly sells baseball related services. They only recently updated
Speaker 2: in terms of services to allow for baseball related success
Speaker 2: with the acquisition of a company called Kwan Soto up there.
Speaker 4: They're on a subscription model, like a lot of these guys,
Speaker 4: you got to keep paying if you want them to move.
Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about the Nation League East.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just realized we have gone fully into the Mets,
Speaker 2: so we need to That was beautiful, man. I am
Speaker 2: so sorry, but Phil putting the fire marshal stuff aside,
Speaker 2: what is it with lasers and these people like, what
Speaker 2: is it? Why do They love to bring up lasers
Speaker 2: so much like, what do you think it is?
Speaker 5: Okay? So this would be several decades of career experience
Speaker 5: and just watching people and what they do. There's something
Speaker 5: in the human psyche that gets very excited about whatever
Speaker 5: thing there is in the world. What if I put
Speaker 5: a laser on it, right that will make it better?
Speaker 5: Or alternatively, this thing that already does the thing it
Speaker 5: normally does, would a laser make it do it better?
Speaker 2: So do they know what a laser is?
Speaker 5: Also often not great keep It is a laser light
Speaker 5: amplification by a simulated emission of radiation.
Speaker 1: I didn't know it's an acronym.
Speaker 2: It is I just like scuba and I didn't realize
Speaker 2: it was an acronym until you asked that question. Yea,
Speaker 2: I have an IQ of seven.
Speaker 5: But the the more exciting thing and the reason why
Speaker 5: I get excited about it and products that happen, is
Speaker 5: how we regulate lasers in the United States of America.
Speaker 5: This is your important asterisk that goes in the post
Speaker 5: of These rules and regulations only apply in the United
Speaker 5: States of America. In your jurisdiction, they may be different.
Speaker 5: When lasers became a thing that weren't just stuff nerds
Speaker 5: played with in the National Laboratory. The very first market
Speaker 5: they hit, the first consumer consumers, very relative product was
Speaker 5: for ophthalmological treatments where you're doing the laser cautery z
Speaker 5: apping to fix in the eye in the eye, to
Speaker 5: cauterize off new veins growing in the retina, to say,
Speaker 5: people who are losing their vision from glaucoma or other
Speaker 5: diabotic diabetic retinopathy. Because the first application of lasers that
Speaker 5: really hit the consumer market was a medical application. Is
Speaker 5: the reason why lasers are regulated by the Food and
Speaker 5: Drug Administration's Center for Device and Radiologic Health, which means
Speaker 5: any consumer product that incorporates a laser is supposed to
Speaker 5: have been vetted and compliant with the Federal Laser Product
Speaker 5: Performance Standard that the FDA promulgates. And they only get
Speaker 5: one chance to catch you is when you release your
Speaker 5: product into commerce, and that has a very specific regulatory meeting,
Speaker 5: which is, oh, God, you actually want to.
Speaker 4: Know, yes, well, I'm assuming for our purposes here the
Speaker 4: stuff that's downstairs. A lot of the places have, as
Speaker 4: you've pointed out, like they'll be like a little tagliner
Speaker 4: like this has not been shown to the FDA yet.
Speaker 5: Or not approved by the FDA, or is being used
Speaker 5: under basically the Fundsis code of the regulation, when.
Speaker 4: Even if you have a prototype on it, it has
Speaker 4: not been released into commerce.
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Correct?
Speaker 5: Okay, So commerce's specific meaning is you have a excuse me,
Speaker 5: laser product that you have made more than one of,
Speaker 5: and or is being used somewhere other than the place
Speaker 5: where it was initially built, and or by someone who
Speaker 5: was not the person who originally built it, which means,
Speaker 5: if you listen to those three statements, at no point
Speaker 5: does money have to exchange hands.
Speaker 2: So they only have to build two.
Speaker 5: The moment you hit two, you have made a laser product.
Speaker 2: Versus people reading this as commerce meaning it's on Amazon.
Speaker 5: Which is what most people think it means.
Speaker 2: Sweet.
Speaker 5: That's how the regulation covers it to try to cover
Speaker 5: tricks like people being oh, well, just you're a friend,
Speaker 5: I'll make you a second one of these setups, and
Speaker 5: I'll ship everything that I just did over to you
Speaker 5: at your other laboratory. You have no idea how the
Speaker 5: very specific quirk of I have duct tape sitting right
Speaker 5: here on the setup to protect that beam from going
Speaker 5: out that will blind me. Also, it takes so very
Speaker 5: little laser power to actually be blind.
Speaker 2: But also that feels like a valuable point to this,
Speaker 2: which is just because they've made too doesn't mean they've
Speaker 2: made two safe ones. Like if there are little workarounds,
Speaker 2: like when you release something under these regulations you're discussing,
Speaker 2: I imagine you probably want to think of a more
Speaker 2: rigorous housing than tape.
Speaker 5: Correct. That's when I mentioned the Federal Laser Project Performance
Speaker 5: Standard aka the FLIPS. It specifies the components that your
Speaker 5: laser should have to be a legal laser product that
Speaker 5: could be sold into commerce. Right, They're not just you
Speaker 5: have to be I safe levels of power, which has
Speaker 5: defined as less than one milliwatt per squares centimeter on
Speaker 5: the retina. It also has things like you have interlocks
Speaker 5: so that if you pop open the housing, it turns
Speaker 5: off or it drops a shutter.
Speaker 2: And these are things that people don't classically put in
Speaker 2: the first version not.
Speaker 1: Classically no good.
Speaker 5: Also other things like there's indicator lights, there's switches, there's
Speaker 5: key interlocks, all the things that sound like function buttons. Yeah,
Speaker 5: things that vanish from the design of products the moment
Speaker 5: you catch Apple disease and decide that every single product
Speaker 5: should be a smooth tablet of silicon that you wave
Speaker 5: your hands at and they do magic rather than what
Speaker 5: is my product doing.
Speaker 3: My god slash Steve jobs intended.
Speaker 2: So how does this manifest into problems at cees.
Speaker 5: Well, first you have handed products, often to sales people
Speaker 5: on the floor to go set up and talk about
Speaker 5: and try to make.
Speaker 4: A say well, most certainly not the engineers who built it.
Speaker 2: All laser safety offices correct.
Speaker 5: The other thing is bringing a laser onto the floor,
Speaker 5: and this take us back to the fire marshal chat.
Speaker 5: That constitutes one of the hazards you actually have to
Speaker 5: let the CTA know about so they can tell the
Speaker 5: fire marshals because that changes the occupancy of the room. Also,
Speaker 5: they have a safety personnel they call to come evaluate setups.
Speaker 5: So if you say you're bringing a laser to the floor,
Speaker 5: a laser safety officer will come. Oh, you should put
Speaker 5: an enclosure around that product you bought brought because you
Speaker 5: don't actually have one. Now this defeats the purpose of
Speaker 5: your trying to show your product. Now they can't see
Speaker 5: it through the enclosure that protects people from it. That
Speaker 5: should indicate that maybe your product.
Speaker 3: Is not great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I want to see the product.
Speaker 5: You won't see at all.
Speaker 4: That's disturbing. And that's where that's the hand of a
Speaker 4: big brother in a lot of ways, trying to keep
Speaker 4: you from being blinded by a laser.
Speaker 5: Big vision.
Speaker 1: You're a hotel.
Speaker 3: Does it move fast, blind quick?
Speaker 4: Yes, that's so.
Speaker 2: But I just want to actually, here's a really good
Speaker 2: thing for the listeners. What are the consequences of not
Speaker 2: following these things. What do these products do to you
Speaker 2: as a person in the event these regulations and they'll followed.
Speaker 5: Blinding fires?
Speaker 1: And is that bad?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: A fair question.
Speaker 4: It is a good question. I'm glad that we have
Speaker 4: a balanced group hair.
Speaker 5: So just a quick rundown. If you go look at
Speaker 5: your product that has a laser in it, odds on
Speaker 5: favor you have one, it's probably a printer in your home.
Speaker 5: If you go look on it, there will be a
Speaker 5: little yellow sticker on the box. That's box that says
Speaker 5: Class one laser device.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: That means it is safe for use under any viewing conditions.
Speaker 5: You have no access to a hazardous laser.
Speaker 2: You don't need eye protection or anything like that.
Speaker 5: You do not because the housing that's in there will
Speaker 5: protect you. Mind you, most laser printers are actually Class
Speaker 5: four lasers, which are absolutely blinding and capable of setting
Speaker 5: fires if you took all of the housing that makes
Speaker 5: the printer off of it. Okay, so there is a
Speaker 5: much more powerful laser that is dangerous to you hiding
Speaker 5: inside it it. One of the other things that happens
Speaker 5: at CES and other shows like Photonics West, where I
Speaker 5: will be in a couple of weeks is people try
Speaker 5: to get around some of the consumer protection standards by
Speaker 5: rather than selling you a finished product, they sell you
Speaker 5: parts as original equipment manufacturers. If you go buy OEM parts,
Speaker 5: which you are free to do because America, everyone salute.
Speaker 2: Is saluting. I'm saluting right. Thank you, Thank you everyone,
Speaker 2: Thank you everyone.
Speaker 5: If you go buy a laser OEM laser product and
Speaker 5: integrate it into your system because you thought this this
Speaker 5: stuff is great. All it needs is a laser.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: The moment you add a laser to it, you just
Speaker 5: turned the thing you made into a laser product. A
Speaker 5: finished one is subject to all of those rules like enclosures,
Speaker 5: light housings, interlocks. You just became a laser manufacturer and
Speaker 5: you didn't want to be and at that point supporting
Speaker 5: entrepreneurs with that.
Speaker 4: But also I agree with Edward's question, it doesn't feel weird.
Speaker 4: This is like the it's like a three D printery
Speaker 4: type scenario where there's like it seems like the three
Speaker 4: D printers, but like the distance between reach and grasp
Speaker 4: here is like actually a matter of life and death.
Speaker 4: Like the idea that like I could, by doing a
Speaker 4: few different things that more or less involve following instructions,
Speaker 4: become a laser manufacturer, Like I don't even brush my
Speaker 4: teeth before eleven in the morning a lot of the days,
Speaker 4: like I shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: Trusted with being able to do stuff like that now.
Speaker 2: And that's that's actually was a very good point, which
Speaker 2: is what feel is describing is how easy it is
Speaker 2: to do this insane shit.
Speaker 5: Very and to bring it back to the FDA, their
Speaker 5: control point is releasing a product into commerce, after which
Speaker 5: the FDA doesn't really have control of it anymore because
Speaker 5: it's now in the only other thing that a laser
Speaker 5: manufacturer is required to do, as far as the FDA
Speaker 5: is concerned, is maintain a log of injuries associated with
Speaker 5: their product.
Speaker 2: And recall to do that with the podcast.
Speaker 5: Yeah, several listeners are to my heart were recalling bits
Speaker 5: recalling bit's our entire systems.
Speaker 3: WE and we after close examination, we've realized that bit
Speaker 3: number seventy six seeding about the woo problematic.
Speaker 1: Could cause emotion injury to listeners.
Speaker 2: So film on the floor over the years. What are
Speaker 2: the manifestations specifically of this thing? What are the things
Speaker 2: that you have seen and heard of that you can
Speaker 2: terrorize my good friends mister Roth and mister Anguso with.
Speaker 5: So let's go back to the laser bra Okay please,
Speaker 5: this was actually a club item where the idea was
Speaker 5: you could be your own laser light show. Not just
Speaker 5: you put out the laser emitting product to go with
Speaker 5: the music, but it will actually react to your dancing
Speaker 5: and will change the out the brightness changed the color
Speaker 5: they dances. Though, if it's an E because lasers make
Speaker 5: everything better. Also, LED also can stand for laser.
Speaker 2: They don't sense things, they do things.
Speaker 5: They can also emit right, But.
Speaker 2: Are you saying that they use lasers to emit light?
Speaker 5: Yes, on the fucking brock, dozens of them.
Speaker 4: We have lights.
Speaker 5: No, but they could be lasers to shine in very
Speaker 5: visible beams across the entire world.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not the lazy set lazy Jesus.
Speaker 5: Does slip of the tongue happens constantly.
Speaker 2: Laser safety expert here, But I think the idea of
Speaker 2: shooting a bunch of lasers out of one's breasts where
Speaker 2: people might be looking it's fun, it may be, but
Speaker 2: it also might fun and flirty, a great look for
Speaker 2: the season thirty flirty and thriving. That feels dangerous.
Speaker 5: You have a lot of very pain looks on your faces.
Speaker 2: At the very end, I feel no pain like the
Speaker 2: sohon it seems whether it would be worth it.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 1: Literally risking at all risk risking.
Speaker 2: To look at.
Speaker 4: Party?
Speaker 1: Could I go to?
Speaker 3: It'd be like that was fine?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I go bind it. I pretty much got what
Speaker 4: it's like desperate to Actually.
Speaker 5: There's also totally been the laser butt plug that showed
Speaker 5: up at but same thing dropping traun much.
Speaker 3: Like thefacturers actually.
Speaker 5: Effectively, but the one that was most relevant that actually
Speaker 5: did show up at ce S, and it has shown
Speaker 5: up dozens of times on hacker News and other interesting
Speaker 5: maker websites. Someone who had made a laser based bong.
Speaker 5: Now this is a problem because again you've taken a
Speaker 5: concept of a totally workable product that already exists. Bongs.
Speaker 5: We have known how these work for very long.
Speaker 2: And we have made them so that people who may
Speaker 2: be under the influence can offer.
Speaker 5: Even offer to maybe not safely with the torch, but
Speaker 5: you know so that certain kind of mind looks at
Speaker 5: and goes, man, I can make that so much better
Speaker 5: with a laser. And okay, the problem is lasers are
Speaker 5: not necessarily hot burning enough to actually properly combust your
Speaker 5: weed to then inhale. Incomplete combustion is a problem because okay, now,
Speaker 5: what did I break down on my plant material too? Oh,
Speaker 5: it's every organic molecule you possibly could break it down to,
Speaker 5: some of which are carcinogens. You would, yeah, everything, No, so.
Speaker 3: Your reefer becomes something even more dangerous. But you don't
Speaker 3: even really get the enjoyment.
Speaker 2: That I am genuinely asking, what is the consequences of
Speaker 2: the castinogens? No dumb question. You just said the word carsonogen,
Speaker 2: But explain please.
Speaker 5: Cancer causing agents thanks, some of which them are just
Speaker 5: straight up toxic, not just carcinogen.
Speaker 3: Do you not get high at least you might.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 4: Just to be clear, though, when you break away all
Speaker 4: this stuff, but.
Speaker 5: You're also part of the show, you are you're also
Speaker 5: effectively wasting weed.
Speaker 2: You're not completely Okay, now I'm taking this very seriously,
Speaker 2: not that I ever have it. But the specific thing
Speaker 2: I'm saying here though, is so the laser is not
Speaker 2: even efficient as a heating It's not.
Speaker 5: A good answer for it. It's just cool I use
Speaker 5: the laser.
Speaker 2: Do you not regularly burn castinogens? When you do? Like
Speaker 2: weed that you smoke and bongb for example, you.
Speaker 5: Get often get full combustion. The goal is to get.
Speaker 2: Full, just to get the th Does that get the
Speaker 2: costagens out?
Speaker 5: Don't make them in the first place.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the idea of using a laser in this
Speaker 2: case creates new problems that makes weed less healthy.
Speaker 5: Again, It's time for another brand new acronym for you,
Speaker 5: jacks Laser generated airborne contaminants, which is something we regulate under.
Speaker 2: Why do lasers create those?
Speaker 5: So anytime you have a laser interacting with material, they
Speaker 5: start burning things off of it. Sorry, if it has
Speaker 5: enough power to start burning things off it, it will
Speaker 5: make fumes, It will do micromachining of surfaces, and you
Speaker 5: start getting nanoscale particulates, which are very exciting, very they
Speaker 5: sounds cool, but no, so normally you put on a
Speaker 5: respirator to protect yourself from particulars when you're doing woodwork
Speaker 5: and savage, which you already mentioned the laser cutters and
Speaker 5: then burners. When you use those on your wood, rather
Speaker 5: than just making simple smoke or sawdust, you were making
Speaker 5: nanoscale particulars that go right through your respirator. And rather
Speaker 5: than getting stuck in your sinuses with all your mucus there,
Speaker 5: some may to your lungs, some make get stopp there.
Speaker 5: Suddenly the target organ for smoke is your liver rather
Speaker 5: than your lungs.
Speaker 2: Christ and see this is the thing, this is I'm
Speaker 2: so happy you put this down. It has been like
Speaker 2: eight years of doing this, we've never actually got you
Speaker 2: to run down where your actual expertise lies here. And
Speaker 2: it's wonderful to do. No, I fucking love it. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2: The show. It's been amazing. But the thing is, it's
Speaker 2: like a classic CS style problem where it's like, ah,
Speaker 2: have we got the solution to something, but you have
Speaker 2: so many more problems yeah, we we may have created
Speaker 2: some more problems, but did we create a solution? I
Speaker 2: don't know. Do you think we did?
Speaker 1: Did you come up?
Speaker 2: Did we? Can you tell us? If we what do
Speaker 2: you think? Can you buy this and then give us
Speaker 2: an idea?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: That's the bit that I kept, ye because a lot
Speaker 4: of it is like the especially with you know, like
Speaker 4: the idea of a laser bomb, like this is it's
Speaker 4: a worse way to address a problem that has been
Speaker 4: pretty comprehensively.
Speaker 2: Solved, but it's so.
Speaker 4: Absolutely buy it. Yeah, that's somebody's like, well, this is
Speaker 4: like maybe this is cool enough that we could sell it,
Speaker 4: even if it's delivering like just of not even twenty
Speaker 4: five percent of the experience, Like you're getting all the
Speaker 4: carcinogens and the eggs.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it feels like when I was
Speaker 3: in high school and we were out of weed and
Speaker 3: our plug was out of town, and so we'd scrape
Speaker 3: our bulls to get to smoke out of some PVC pipe.
Speaker 1: You know, like, Okay, I was maxing out the dirt bag.
Speaker 5: I was going to say, you were in good shape
Speaker 5: there right up until you said PVC.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I'm trying I'm trying to maximize the unhealthy, horrible,
Speaker 3: uh damaging carcinogenic And.
Speaker 4: There you go, you know, British culture.
Speaker 5: Just so to correct you though, David, it's not you
Speaker 5: get all of the caryscinogens that were there, it's you
Speaker 5: made some that weren't there in the first place.
Speaker 2: Yes, my bad problem for your solution.
Speaker 4: This is like the thing we're like, I don't I
Speaker 4: guess this is like not a novel observation, but they
Speaker 4: like the waves, which like a commercial consideration, just the
Speaker 4: most basic commercial consideration, like can I sell this? Can
Speaker 4: I make this thing and bring it to market? That
Speaker 4: is the highest hurdle for any of these podcasts. The
Speaker 4: technological stuff, the magic, the shit that you need like
Speaker 4: advanced degrees to be able to do doesn't often seem
Speaker 4: to be a problem. The bigger problem is trying to
Speaker 4: find some way to either invest in it or to
Speaker 4: find a way to sell it. And that's how you
Speaker 4: That's like when these things get bad and.
Speaker 2: Then the film destroying ones, the way they fail both yes,
Speaker 2: where they just like, well, do we have a product
Speaker 2: that people want? No? Do we have a product that works?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: However, we do have a name we have science, and
Speaker 2: we technically do have science. That's one thing you'll wokeness
Speaker 2: can take away film. They do have science, get them.
Speaker 2: And now the problem is do they understand the science?
Speaker 2: And that's the big one. And this is the thing
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 5: Rather they understand their specific incredibly narrow niche and have
Speaker 5: never picked their head up. Who look and acknowledge there
Speaker 5: are other humans around them?
Speaker 2: Why would they do that unless they can do Some
Speaker 2: of them are customers, Okay, consumer, Oh sorry, you were
Speaker 2: not there to be happy, you're there to consume. And
Speaker 2: this is CS baby, It's just a series of people
Speaker 2: from the top of the people who actually release things,
Speaker 2: all the way down to the people releasing the laser bump.
Speaker 5: The other thing for CS is sorry they move in fads. Well,
Speaker 5: I said, there's something in the human spirit that says
Speaker 5: you just got to attach lasers to things. Not according
Speaker 5: to the people have gone to the floor. Not this year.
Speaker 5: People were not excited to stable lasers onto stuff, but
Speaker 5: in past years absolutely it's what they took. And that's
Speaker 5: that first time we visited see it well together to
Speaker 5: see us and twenty fifteen I actually did go to
Speaker 5: the floor.
Speaker 7: Twenty eleven first time we went together year was that
Speaker 7: first time we went to the No, I wasn't with
Speaker 7: you nicely where we met in the Californian right, But I.
Speaker 5: Didn't get to make dj wukid you No, you left me.
Speaker 2: It's one of my cool friends.
Speaker 4: I wid.
Speaker 2: I mean a guyiled like a year ago.
Speaker 5: But the the first time we were here together and
Speaker 5: I went to the floor. In twenty fifteen, there was
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of post disaster Fukushima tech where people
Speaker 5: were developing so many new apps for your phone for
Speaker 5: integration into the radiation monitoring networks. There was no radiation
Speaker 5: monitoring network right into the Well we're gonna have some
Speaker 5: some detectors that you can log into. Really, would you
Speaker 5: like to buy some detectors, by the way.
Speaker 2: To add to the inevitable future for the full network
Speaker 2: that you want, of course will exist, or a detector you.
Speaker 5: Can plug into your phone. No, your phone doesn't generate
Speaker 5: enough voltage to actually run that detector to do it.
Speaker 5: There was a whole lot of radiation related I am
Speaker 5: terrified of a Fukushima in my backyard. Across the entire Pacific.
Speaker 5: Tech that got rolled out which vanished the following year,
Speaker 5: and there's cycles.
Speaker 4: We were talking about this this morning too, and I
Speaker 4: think the thing that was kind of interesting about what
Speaker 4: you said about that too was that and this again.
Speaker 4: You know, I kept sort of having this feeling down
Speaker 4: there you were describing as basically, you know, people wanted
Speaker 4: this spectrometer or whatever the term is, got it?
Speaker 1: Is it good?
Speaker 4: I saw Craig Magine's Chernobyl mini series and I took
Speaker 4: copious notes during it, so I know a lot.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 4: I thought it was good actually, but if people expected
Speaker 4: me to hate it, I had like a T shirt
Speaker 4: on that seemed to the way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Chernobyl day baby right here.
Speaker 2: Really April twenty fifth, nine eighty six. I think the
Speaker 2: time zones work out with Russia.
Speaker 4: Two disasters the same, We're alive for the last Mets
Speaker 4: World Series one.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful.
Speaker 5: I want to three disasters.
Speaker 4: Collapse of multipleties anyway, But what you were saying about
Speaker 4: this is that like all of these things were you know,
Speaker 4: not just flawed in the ways that that you described,
Speaker 4: but they were like successful products in so far as
Speaker 4: they would generate a number with a decimal point in
Speaker 4: it that you could then look at and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: that seems high or that seems low and fine as
Speaker 4: we but as in the mini series.
Speaker 1: But I think just in general, like this was the
Speaker 1: point that you made.
Speaker 4: Is generating a number for somebody you know, by way
Speaker 4: of an app or by way of you know, some
Speaker 4: sort of device that you know it's chargeable via USBC
Speaker 4: or something, is not the same thing as informing them
Speaker 4: of anything. It's just producing a number. It like it's
Speaker 4: an outcome.
Speaker 2: But that's that it was.
Speaker 5: I hope every time someone comes to I have this
Speaker 5: new detector, is this good fill? Or is this worth
Speaker 5: the money? I? Okay, you have to know how. You
Speaker 5: have to ask the questions. What are you trying to detect?
Speaker 5: Does the detector actually detect that? Do you know how
Speaker 5: to use it? And a lot of the consumer products
Speaker 5: in spaces like this related to environmental health and safety
Speaker 5: emergency response no heal. Most people buying stuff I Amazon
Speaker 5: have no idea how to fucking use it, much less
Speaker 5: what it actually or how it works. And that's why
Speaker 5: I get angry constantly.
Speaker 2: As we wrap up more things to upset, you'll go
Speaker 2: more tomorrow, I think. So you can just buy illegal
Speaker 2: shit on Amazon just to wrap us.
Speaker 5: Up as I as I regularly send you, it is
Speaker 5: the largest gray or black market in America. There was
Speaker 5: there was a really sad time. The other show I
Speaker 5: come to Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: To go to is Defcon and COVID Central.
Speaker 5: I describe coming to CEES as a chance to see
Speaker 5: the things I'm going to have to contend with when
Speaker 5: cheap professors buy stuff and bring it to me. Going
Speaker 5: to def Con I describe as a vacation to other
Speaker 5: people's problems, because INFOSEC problems are analogous to radiation and
Speaker 5: laser safety ones, but not actually mine to need to fix,
Speaker 5: but the stuff I can learn. One time I was there,
Speaker 5: I caught three senior Amazon on engineers at a bar
Speaker 5: and I was aimed at them by a friend who said,
Speaker 5: those are the Amazon people. Talk to them, And I
Speaker 5: went over and at angry cocktail point, laid down, you
Speaker 5: are the largest black market, an illegal importer of dangerous
Speaker 5: laser products and other things in the world, specifically America.
Speaker 1: Really like yes you on our card or something.
Speaker 5: To which to their credit, thank you. To their credit,
Speaker 5: they looked ashamed at their shoes and said to me,
Speaker 5: I could fix this with a code push at midnight
Speaker 5: if anyone with the very heavily implied a certain bald
Speaker 5: owner cared professor very nasty, but worse, having shared the
Speaker 5: story with contacts at the FDA. The FDA they haven't
Speaker 5: quite surrendered to Amazon, but they do not have the staff,
Speaker 5: they don't have the bandwidth, they don't have the funding
Speaker 5: to try to deal with a problem like Amazon, and
Speaker 5: instead are doing their best to work with Amazon, which
Speaker 5: is something you've written about and talked about. It's just
Speaker 5: regulatory capture.
Speaker 3: Would happen if we gave gun.
Speaker 4: I was gonna I I was gonna say.
Speaker 3: Anything that it is about to say.
Speaker 2: Is not reflective.
Speaker 4: It's it's the It's ed not the other d yet yet,
Speaker 4: Edward Gaso, Genie.
Speaker 3: Some of you who cannot tell the difference between our
Speaker 3: voices because we sound.
Speaker 4: So fucking.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing double.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: In a way, we are the same, you know, Britain, Kenya,
Speaker 3: what's you know?
Speaker 2: We are connected, but it is also wonderful and I'm
Speaker 2: so happy. Anyway, please stop saying the thing that is
Speaker 2: legally actionable, if you.
Speaker 3: Can legally actionable, because I'm asking, I'm actually asking a
Speaker 3: really good What I'm asking is what would things look
Speaker 3: like if regulatory agencies actually had the ability to enforce
Speaker 3: and not just to like litigate, you know, like what
Speaker 3: you know, I think one example just being, you know,
Speaker 3: if they were able to enforce in the way that
Speaker 3: ANYDA for a DA might when it comes to illegal
Speaker 3: harmful goods and services proliferating in an open air black
Speaker 3: market like this.
Speaker 5: So that was a funny question you asked me the
Speaker 5: other other day of do I think any government agencies
Speaker 5: are working well? And I had to take a long,
Speaker 5: sad pause and go the problem is, I know how
Speaker 5: they're supposed to work. I also know how they are working.
Speaker 5: The DA and atf don't work nearly as well.
Speaker 4: We would like them too, but I feel like they're
Speaker 4: much more robustly funded. There's nothing else than like the
Speaker 4: Federal Trade Commission is like six guys in an office
Speaker 4: with a week in the ceiling.
Speaker 3: Like if we gave I'm sure if we gave like
Speaker 3: Lena Khan and her advisors, you know, like a ruger,
Speaker 3: like they like, yeah, we could get something. Actually, the.
Speaker 5: People that we would be most excited to have work
Speaker 5: to do this in association with the FDA, because the FDA,
Speaker 5: they do not. They don't get guns. They review things
Speaker 5: to see if it's safe for people to use and consume.
Speaker 5: The intradiction point is the United States Postal Inspection Service,
Speaker 5: which are the mail cops. Shout out, Shout out to
Speaker 5: the mail cops and the comp staff.
Speaker 3: They are actual, Like, please do not fuck with them.
Speaker 3: What's their convictions?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that's just the rest in packages.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but at padded envelope.
Speaker 5: But again there's not many people have meant many of
Speaker 5: them to do intradiction and investigation. Similarly, for Customs, which
Speaker 5: had got stapled together to Customs and Border Patrol under
Speaker 5: the Department of Hollowed Security when it was an independent agency,
Speaker 5: they inspected everything. They were looking for illegally transported crew.
Speaker 5: They were looking for illegal cloth because specific weaves and
Speaker 5: contents are trademarked, they're looking for that. They were looking
Speaker 5: for fake tech, so an iPhone that actually just has
Speaker 5: a piece of cardboard in the middle of rather than chips.
Speaker 5: Customs used to look at all of this. We got
Speaker 5: no support time for anything other than drugs.
Speaker 2: So on that note, I'm afraid we have to come
Speaker 2: to the end of this ninety plus minutes show jrothwackon
Speaker 2: people find you.
Speaker 4: Uh defector dot com. It's the website I do a
Speaker 4: podcast there. That's the distraction.
Speaker 1: I'm on Blue Sky. David j Roth is the handle there,
Speaker 1: and that is all I have to say for that,
Speaker 1: Miss Broughton.
Speaker 5: So you can find me on Blue Sky at at
Speaker 5: fun Ranium. You can find me on my blog Funderanium
Speaker 5: Labs dot com. If you would like to learn more
Speaker 5: about me being angry about laser products, go to the
Speaker 5: adventure and Radiation part and of the blog or reference.
Speaker 1: Ran you'll tell them about your coffee product.
Speaker 4: Yeah, go on.
Speaker 5: The other thing I do is I make a concentrated
Speaker 5: coffee called Black Blood of the Earth. That is what
Speaker 5: I had to make in order to drink coffee again
Speaker 5: without adding sugar and cream to it.
Speaker 4: We're gonna talk more about this tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Rocks. It doesn't.
Speaker 4: It's actual hearted endorsement how Phil and I met.
Speaker 2: And by the way, tomorrow's episode which I'm about to
Speaker 2: talk cop and we'll talk about more later, he's going
Speaker 2: to involve Phil a lot in talking about that. Mister
Speaker 2: Anguso Junior.
Speaker 3: Those debating whether the doing Nelson Mandela accents.
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it a week better don't find
Speaker 2: out you must go to the tech Yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: I was afraid of.
Speaker 3: Dot com. Uh uh, that's my newsletter, my podcast that
Speaker 3: this machine kills. And I'm on Twitter and Blue Sky
Speaker 3: at Big Black Jacobin and.
Speaker 2: You can catch me outside. How about that. That's why
Speaker 2: I wrote down in my notes there. I'm at Zetron.
Speaker 2: You have been so generous with your time. Thank you
Speaker 2: for listening. I am so grateful and love all of you,
Speaker 2: and will say that a few more times as we go.
Speaker 2: We're approaching the first episode. At the end of the
Speaker 2: first episode of the last day of CS proper, you
Speaker 2: will have another one after this. I have been joined
Speaker 2: by so many wonderful people. I want to thank everyone
Speaker 2: he has been on so far. This has been an
Speaker 2: incredible trip. Please listen to the totally canned message. After that,
Speaker 2: I'll get one of you little pigs emailing me and
Speaker 2: being like.
Speaker 4: Afy, you need to update it. I've done like ten
Speaker 4: and a half flipping hours of audio on this.
Speaker 2: What more could you want from me? I'm online. You
Speaker 2: can email me. I always email you back. Jesus Christ,
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1: I adore you, sir, Let's get you home.
Speaker 2: Okay, I am Venetian Hotel room. This is where I live.
Speaker 5: Let's get you a drink.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and
Speaker 2: composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You
Speaker 2: can check out more of his music and audio projects
Speaker 2: at Matasowski dot com, M A T T O S
Speaker 2: O W s ki dot com. You can email me
Speaker 2: at easy at Better offline dot com or visit Better
Speaker 2: Offline dot com to find more podcast links and of course,
Speaker 2: my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat
Speaker 2: dot Where's youreaed dot at to visit the discord, and
Speaker 2: go to our slash Better Offline to check out our reddit.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 6: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
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