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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's got to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Wonderful good podcast introduction Boys of West part of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that could be Harry Jo, Hi May, how are you?

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Speaker 2: We're doing a podcast.

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Speaker 3: I've been feed a The chess world has decided that

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Speaker 3: my chess powers are too strong, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm now being discriminated against. It's a good time, very excited.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, having a great time with my biological advantage at chess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. Well, you know you've got to reach

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Speaker 2: those chess pieces somehow, and it's all to do with

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Speaker 2: your hip angle.

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Speaker 3: From transvestigators. My wrists are too powerful. This allows me

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Speaker 3: to write down my moves faster than my opponent, thus

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Speaker 3: giving me an advantage on the clock. I can also

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Speaker 3: reach the clock faster. Incredible stuff happening in the world

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Speaker 3: of chess, not.

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Speaker 2: Just chess sadly, but the fact the Turfs have got

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Speaker 2: their clause I guess, into many sports, which is what

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Speaker 2: we are talking about today. Specifically, I thought we could

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Speaker 2: talk about how the Turf's ruin cycling, because that is

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Speaker 2: the thing they have been trying to do for some time.

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Speaker 2: It's a thing I've written about before and hopefully a

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Speaker 2: thing I will be able to write about again. And

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Speaker 2: unless the cycling press just kind of gives itself over

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Speaker 2: to the Turfs, which doesn't seem to have done, to

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Speaker 2: be fair, generally generally dicycling press, I think it's fair

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Speaker 2: to say it's lacked an intersexual analysis of anything. But

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Speaker 2: they've been better on this than I had expected, especially

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Speaker 2: the outlets which are not run by white sis head

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Speaker 2: dudes in Boulder, which, to be fair, is a minority.

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Speaker 2: Yeah strange, that odd? How odd? But yeah, shouting in

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Speaker 2: particular to Outside for including a gear guide to the

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Speaker 2: gear the cops used at the twenty sixteen RNC, which

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Speaker 2: could perhaps be included as the most tone deaf article

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Speaker 2: ever written. Yeah, yeah, incredibly, and then to leave it

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Speaker 2: up in twenty twenty to not like cover your tracks.

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Speaker 2: You know this is one of those.

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Speaker 3: This is one of those, like when the workers take

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Speaker 3: Boulder like no biker will go hungry moments.

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Speaker 2: Ah yeah, Boulder, Colorado is a special place for bad things.

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Speaker 2: I won't say bad things to happen because they had

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Speaker 2: not a format shooting. But like social yeah, intersexual analysis

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Speaker 2: has not made it to bolder savvy. Great, great shame.

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Speaker 2: But we're not talking about bout it today. We're starting

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Speaker 2: out with a little discussion of cyclo cross. So cycle across.

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Speaker 2: Are you familiar with cycling across?

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Speaker 4: Mire?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So it's a fundamentally silly sport in which I've competed,

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Speaker 2: of course. It's it's when competitors race skinny, tired drop

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Speaker 2: bar bikes on off ro course. Yeah, I would please google,

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Speaker 2: uh perhaps, Okay, I'm going to send you one one

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Speaker 2: cyclo cross video. It is iconic for people who are

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Speaker 2: who are at home. The videos called is joey. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we can we can have mere reacting live.

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Speaker 3: The first picture that I saw when when I googled

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Speaker 3: this is two people not riding on their two people

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Speaker 3: carrying their bikes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so this is a thing, right, you get really

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Speaker 2: good at cyclic you train your entire life and then

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Speaker 2: and then in psychelocross, there are parts where you have

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Speaker 2: to get off. Unless you're very talented, you can't hop

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Speaker 2: the barriers. I've tried that with mixed success. You can

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Speaker 2: also you can ride the stairs, but you do have

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Speaker 2: to be a bit of a boss. So there are

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Speaker 2: barriers and challenges which you have to get off. It's

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Speaker 2: called field riding in Dutch, which is about riding. Have

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Speaker 2: you watched the video? Will include a link in the

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Speaker 2: note to everyone else of it. Did you watch it

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Speaker 2: with the sound on? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm trying to figure out how to describe this effectively.

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Speaker 3: What has happened is this guy Okay, so these guy's

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Speaker 3: like going at full speed and then while the bike

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Speaker 3: is still moving, he's attempting to get off the bike

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Speaker 3: before he gets to this barrier, and he like, he

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Speaker 3: just goes. He does not get off in time. The

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Speaker 3: bike's going too fast and he like she is she's

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Speaker 3: like sprawling. But in mid arees he's flying off his

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Speaker 3: bike over the sparricaane thing.

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Speaker 2: It is incredible. Yeah. All the time people are shouting

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Speaker 2: his name, And that's what you're supposed to do. You're

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Speaker 2: supposed to dismount and just carry the speed you kind

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Speaker 2: of you can either thwing your leg through or throwing

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Speaker 2: your leg to the outside and then carry a speed

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Speaker 2: and jump and then hop back on. It's a very

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Speaker 2: strange sport, right, And a big part of cyclo cross

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Speaker 2: is heckling. So the crowd will heckle you, right, they will.

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Speaker 2: They'll do all kinds of things, like often the crowd.

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Speaker 2: Hand ups are a big thing in cycle across. So,

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Speaker 2: like I've been handed dollar bills beer. What is happening

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Speaker 2: in the sport? Oh yeah, it's very funny. And the

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Speaker 2: moment you're not competitive if you're just grabbing shit off

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Speaker 2: the spectators. So like, like I remember racing in Las

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Speaker 2: Vegas at night. There was a race in Las Vegas

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Speaker 2: at night, and I ain't gonna win right like then,

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Speaker 2: so I'm just grabbing dollar bills and shoving them down

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Speaker 2: my like like.

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Speaker 5: It's like.

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Speaker 2: People will hand you like drinks. I've had beer hand ups,

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Speaker 2: donut spake, and one notable occasion a cookie that was

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Speaker 2: not just a normal cookie, which you should fucking disclose

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Speaker 2: to someone before you get to Yeah, that was a

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Speaker 2: bad day. I also had a pretty rough traumatic brain

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Speaker 2: injury that day. Oh no, yeah, I'd already sustained the

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Speaker 2: brain injury that hit the cookie. I thought my blood

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Speaker 2: sugar was low, so I was like, yeah, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: got that cookie and it's going to be great. It

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Speaker 2: was not. It wasn't the blood sugar. It was affected

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Speaker 2: my cognition. So cyclograss is fun and silly, and heckling

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Speaker 2: is part of it. But like heckling occurs within a

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Speaker 2: certain certain bounds, right, Like you're not supposed to be mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just supposed to be funny, Like everyone's supposed to laugh.

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Speaker 2: So I think in twenty twenty one everyone was rather

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Speaker 2: it's funny signed part of it too, right, But in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one we saw some shit that was distinctly

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Speaker 2: not funny when a group called Save Women's Sport posted

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Speaker 2: up at the race and held what were, as you

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Speaker 2: can probably guess by the name, transphobic science throughout the race.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of people were upset by this, and

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Speaker 2: by their own admission, nobody wanted them there. One woman

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Speaker 2: told the protesters your ship feminism isn't welcome here, which

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Speaker 2: I think would be a great T shirt. If she's listening,

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Speaker 2: please will license your.

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Speaker 5: T shirt.

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Speaker 2: And they were pretty rarely rejected by most of the community,

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Speaker 2: which is great, But the bigotry they bought really wasn't

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Speaker 2: a surprise to anyone who'd been paying attention to online

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Speaker 2: discourse for a while, especially with respect to cycling. The

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Speaker 2: harassment of trans cyclists has been escalating for years. For

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Speaker 2: at least five or six years now. The governing body

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Speaker 2: USA Cycling has known about this and chosen to have done

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Speaker 2: nothing to stop it. Right, So, this particular focus on

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Speaker 2: cycling came about in twenty eighteen when anti transcadras began

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Speaker 2: to focus on the sport because of the success of

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Speaker 2: a woman named Veronica Ivy and that she wasn't called

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Speaker 2: Veronica Ivy at the time, and she was using she

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Speaker 2: had a different name then, but that's her name now,

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Speaker 2: so I'm going to use that name out of respect

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Speaker 2: for her choice for that to be her name. She

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Speaker 2: she won a world championship in the women's thirty five

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Speaker 2: to forty four spring category. Now, like, I have no

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Speaker 2: disrespect at all for masters athletes.

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Speaker 5: It's great.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad people are out there exercising. This is not

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Speaker 2: the same as an Olympic gold medal, right, Like the

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Speaker 2: big I would I mean, people may disagree. The biggest

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Speaker 2: determinant of your ability to win a master's track cycling

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Speaker 2: gold medal is the amount of free time you have

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Speaker 2: to exercise and the amount of money you have to

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Speaker 2: buy fast gear and get to the event. Right, what

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Speaker 2: is like the difference between masters is it's competitions for

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Speaker 2: older people. So it's so in cycling you have juniors

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Speaker 2: and there are various you know, obviously the eight year

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Speaker 2: olds don't compete with eighteen year olds, but up to

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Speaker 2: eighteen as juniors espoires is eighteen to twenty three. We

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Speaker 2: use a French name because you know, you want to

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Speaker 2: be call what is what's what? Jesus Christ? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this French name under twenty three, right, you can call

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Speaker 2: it if you want it to be an angler phile.

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Speaker 2: And then from there you go into the elite competition.

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Speaker 2: Elite competition is it's actually eighteen and like an eighteen

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Speaker 2: year old could compete in an elite competition, so could

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Speaker 2: a fifty year old, right, but it's the highest level

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Speaker 2: of competition. And then you get protected age categories again

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Speaker 2: once you get to thirty five, So so thirty five

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Speaker 2: to forty four forty five to fifty four going ten

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Speaker 2: year blocks, right, and that's for people who are only

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Speaker 2: of that age. Now, it's the older you get, the

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Speaker 2: less competitive it gets, just because more people will people

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Speaker 2: will be racing, right, But thirty five plus masters sometimes

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Speaker 2: they call it baby masters, is.

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Speaker 6: Not.

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Speaker 2: You don't have a significant decrease in your endurance performance

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Speaker 2: at thirty five, So like some of these people are

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Speaker 2: still very good, and that's why they call it baby masters,

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Speaker 2: I guess. But like track cycling is not a big

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Speaker 2: sport to begin with, right, that's going around in circles

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Speaker 2: on an indoor velodrome. Masters track cycling, it's a smaller

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Speaker 2: sport and the amount I know some excellent masters track

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Speaker 2: cyclists who just don't care to go to worlds, right,

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Speaker 2: they've been professional cyclists, are very high level amateur cyclists,

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Speaker 2: and once you reach your mid forties, some people don't

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Speaker 2: care to travel and spend that money and do that competition. Right.

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Speaker 2: San Diego has a really great track scene. Some people

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Speaker 2: who I know very well have recently won multiple world

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Speaker 2: championships on the track. Like, we have a very thriving scene,

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Speaker 2: but not all of those people even care to go

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Speaker 2: to La to race worlds like let alone travel across

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Speaker 2: the world. Right, So it doesn't necessarily truly mean the

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Speaker 2: people who win Masters are the best athletes in the

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Speaker 2: world for the age group, And certainly I wouldn't say.

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Speaker 2: There are lots of things that make this competition unfair.

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Speaker 2: One of them is how much track bikes cost, how

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Speaker 2: much track time costs, and how much travel costs to

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Speaker 2: get to the event. But of course it didn't matter

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Speaker 2: to these people, right. What mattered is that a trans

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Speaker 2: woman had won, and she became the center of the

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Speaker 2: cultural war. And this was really, at least the first

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Speaker 2: one that I was aware of, the sort of instance

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Speaker 2: of someone a trans person winning a very a notable

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Speaker 2: event in cycling. And maybe trans people have been competing

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Speaker 2: in elite races in cycling for forty years, like Wally

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Speaker 2: Cameron was the first trans woman to race in a

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Speaker 2: World Cup, and Money's been racing for a while, and

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Speaker 2: no one said shit, no one cared, right, But around

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, the culture war around trans people was becoming heightened,

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Speaker 2: and so people got mad about her wing the race.

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Speaker 2: And since then there's been this steady increase in transphobic

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Speaker 2: sentiment towards by crisis. It's really the sort of leading

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Speaker 2: voice in this has been former probike grace at Inger Thompson.

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Speaker 2: She's been joined by a few amateur women in various

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Speaker 2: fields voicing their feelings about the participation of trans women.

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Speaker 2: And Thompson has made a lot of statements, some of

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Speaker 2: which you know, choose not to share with you. You

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Speaker 2: can google them if you want, but most of them

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Speaker 2: will be like she missgenderous people all the time, right,

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Speaker 2: that that's what you can find her on Twitter, misgendering people.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that is kind of the giveaway

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Speaker 2: that this isn't necessarily about sport, right, And I think

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Speaker 2: that it's really important that people, regardless of where you

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Speaker 2: stand on sport, understand that this is a wedge, and

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Speaker 2: it's a wedge that's designed to push trans people out

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Speaker 2: and away from femininity in a way, from inclusion.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the reasons why it's important is

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Speaker 3: it it's a way of focusing the discourse like on

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Speaker 3: trans people, on like really really weird interpretations of physical characteristics. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and then this is something that you can use to

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Speaker 3: sort of like, you know, this, this is the wedge

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Speaker 3: that you can use to sort of like tear this

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Speaker 3: sort of issue open. It's been really really effective at

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Speaker 3: this and it's also been like you know, it's something

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Speaker 3: that's sort of like vaguely plausible, plausibly deniable, and it

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Speaker 3: also plays on a really kind of effective branding strategy

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Speaker 3: that these people had, which is that like you know,

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Speaker 3: if people remember what feminism was like in like the

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Speaker 3: twenty tens, it was almost entirely about you know, not

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Speaker 3: just in the twenty tens, like you even sort of

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Speaker 3: previous to this, right, Like the notion that like women

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Speaker 3: are weaker than men was something that was like like

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Speaker 3: broadly considered to be sexist, Like that was not a

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Speaker 3: feminist thing that was like like women are weaker than men.

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Speaker 3: And then you know what you're getre You're getting into

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Speaker 3: people complaining about like like trans women like being on

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Speaker 3: Jeopardy or like this ship that's happening in Chester that

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk about later. It's like, okay, like

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Speaker 3: if you go back in time to before sort of

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Speaker 3: trans arrangement syndrome set in, like and you told someone

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Speaker 3: that in the future, this person is going to be

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Speaker 3: arguing that like like like trans women have a biological

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Speaker 3: advantage in jeopardy because men are smarter than women. They'd

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Speaker 3: be like, what the fuck are you talking about, Like

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Speaker 3: this person is like a neo Nazi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's oh that women are only defined by their

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Speaker 2: ability to bear children, right, and and then that is

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Speaker 2: your sole characteristic and value as a woman, Like yeah, and.

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Speaker 3: Like like this is and this is something that you know,

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Speaker 3: if you go back to like Simon before God, I

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Speaker 3: hate French. It's really a true it's a truly terrible language.

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Speaker 2: That is the official stance of this podcast, Anti French action.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you know, I mean always has you know,

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Speaker 2: like you actually read.

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Speaker 3: The Second Sex and like in the Second Sex is

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Speaker 3: talking about you know, we literally were like her famous

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Speaker 3: line is like women like no one is born a woman,

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Speaker 3: like women is made right because it's it's it's it's

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Speaker 3: it's it's a social process, not a biological one. And

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Speaker 3: then you know, and and but because there was like

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Speaker 3: a kind of cultural victory for feminism where it suddenly

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Speaker 3: became really really difficult to be a mainstream person and

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Speaker 3: like call yourself, uh, like call yourself an anti feminist,

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Speaker 3: like all of these people who believe all of the

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Speaker 3: same ship that like Phylishchlaffley did like have to relabel

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Speaker 3: themselves feminists, and you know, and sports is the sports

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Speaker 3: the thing they picked to do that because sports is

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Speaker 3: the like it's the area they can pick where they can,

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Speaker 3: like with some plausible deniability, start doing all of this

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Speaker 3: like oh, women are inherently weaker than men and have

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Speaker 3: to be protected from men, like shit again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's yes, it's very much like i'm

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Speaker 2: recontstractive stuff that we would have seen it not feminist

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago. Now sadly it's being advanced by people

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Speaker 2: laying claimed to feminism. I guess. Yeah. So, in the

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Speaker 2: most recent sight of Rouss Nationals, trans athlete Austin Killips

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Speaker 2: finished third at the event, local John Brown gun Club

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Speaker 2: members had attended to step in and protect trans athletes

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Speaker 2: where the sports governing body wouldn't, And it was actually

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Speaker 2: a really I mean, what you saw was a lot

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Speaker 2: of discourse online about Austin quote unquote blocking and a

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Speaker 2: SIS woman athlete, and then you saw like a lot

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Speaker 2: of people sort of saying that and like SIS women

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Speaker 2: had been I guess, like you know that Austin's inherent

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Speaker 2: biological advantage. I'm using heavy scare quotes here had allowed

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Speaker 2: her to come third. She got beaten by two sis girls, Right,

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Speaker 2: this is always the thing like that.

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Speaker 3: There was one of these in skateboarding, where like this

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Speaker 3: turf skateboarder was like yelling about how she'd been beaten

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Speaker 3: by a trans woman, and you look at the results.

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Speaker 3: She lost to an eight year old.

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Speaker 2: She was outplaced by an eight year old, Like, shut

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Speaker 2: the fuck up. It's this bullshit like and a lot

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Speaker 2: of the discourse about like Austin quote unquote blocking someone

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Speaker 2: like I don't know, but to me, it very clearly

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Speaker 2: seemed to come for people who hadn't watched many other

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Speaker 2: bicycle competitions, right, like that's what we do. You push

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Speaker 2: on each other, you lean on each other. Like if

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Speaker 2: you didn't do that, people would fallo over a whole

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Speaker 2: lot more. It's a race, you're trying to get to

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Speaker 2: the finish line first. But she didn't do anything that

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Speaker 2: anyone else wouldn't have done. And at the time Turfs

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Speaker 2: kind of tried to make this a big deal but

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Speaker 2: were unsuccessful. And it was not really until Austin won

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Speaker 2: a race in New Mexico, a big race tour of

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Speaker 2: the Healer that it became again, like like it wasn't

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen a very big deal? Right? So one of

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Speaker 2: the key leaders, as I said, is Inga Thompson. Inga

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Speaker 2: is a very accomplished cyclist. There's no doubt about that, right.

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Speaker 2: She's a Bicycle Hall of Fame inductee, five time national champion,

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Speaker 2: three time Olympic team member, a Tour de France firm,

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Speaker 2: and a podium finisher, a three time silver medallist at

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Speaker 2: the US World Championships. But I think she's arguably more

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Speaker 2: famous now for her anti trans bigotry and she's a

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Speaker 2: paid She tried to encourage cyclists to take a knee

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Speaker 2: in protest at the UCI's transgender inclusion yeah, which like.

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Speaker 3: Fox News finally finds something that they're for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've finally. She was actually removed from her role

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Speaker 2: on the board of a France based American protein for

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Speaker 2: her statements there. I thought that their statements kind of interesting.

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Speaker 2: They said shared in the absence of politics, her knowledge

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Speaker 2: and experience would benefit many in advanced cycling for everyone. However,

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Speaker 2: she has decided to dedicate her time to excluding people

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Speaker 2: that otherwise currently eligible to compete in UCI events. She

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Speaker 2: is also tempted to use our team as a platform

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Speaker 2: for political activity, which like is a very neutral stance,

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Speaker 2: but it's also it's also like it's fine, right, like

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Speaker 2: like our cycling team isn't here to hate trans people.

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Speaker 2: If you're going to use it for hating trans people,

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Speaker 2: please go somewhere else like it. It doesn't. You don't

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Speaker 2: have to, like I do take a hugely radical stance

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Speaker 2: to be like that this isn't a hate platform for

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Speaker 2: hate speech, like like go away and uh that they

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Speaker 2: added to be clear, Miss miss Thompson is entitled to

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Speaker 2: her opinions an advocacy, but her methods and personal attacks

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Speaker 2: are inconsistent with siniska's mission to advanced opportunities for women.

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Speaker 2: These methods, well documented on Miss Thompson's social media presence,

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Speaker 2: include dehumanization of transgender people, spreading misinformation, demagoguery, and personal

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Speaker 2: attacks on anyone who opposes her views spellow alert that

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Speaker 2: includes me. She doesn't like me it all, I don't

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Speaker 2: don't be mean to trans people, uh don't missgender my friends.

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Speaker 2: So I did think it was very funny that like

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Speaker 2: this team isn't like the like I don't note like

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Speaker 2: the woke team for woke people. They're just trying to

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Speaker 2: get along with helping women's cycle and they can't do

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Speaker 2: that if they're one of their board members. Is so

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Speaker 2: consumed by hate that no one wants to have anything

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Speaker 2: to do with it. So in the wake of this protest,

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Speaker 2: the twenty twenty one Save Women's Sport protest Fliletted they're

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Speaker 2: an official with USA Cycling, published an open letter calling

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Speaker 2: for the resignation of the organization's CEO and the Safe

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Speaker 2: Sport Coordinator, kelsy Erickson, who's responsible for preventing hate speech

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Speaker 2: and bullying. They gather one hundred and five signatures from

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Speaker 2: racists and other cyclists in support of their demands, and

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Speaker 2: a day after they sent the letter to Martini announced

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Speaker 2: he was stepping down. So he has a bit of

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Speaker 2: a failure of just like there's a statement he made

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Speaker 2: an interview where he said it would be different if

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Speaker 2: our athletes were going to be affected. When he was

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Speaker 2: talking about bands for trans athletes in interscholastic sports, he said,

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Speaker 2: we don't believe they will be which like in technical

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Speaker 2: and in technical sense because cyclists can bete for clubs,

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Speaker 2: not schools. They might not have done. But if you

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Speaker 2: think that a ban on trans kids playing at school

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Speaker 2: isn't going to affect participation in trans athletes in all

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Speaker 2: sports everywhere. You just either completely myopic or you're burying

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Speaker 2: your bigotry. He claimed he was quoted out of context,

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Speaker 2: but it was part of a pretty big block quote.

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Speaker 2: I don't see how that can be taken out of context.

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Speaker 2: They did say at that time that they're against any

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Speaker 2: legislation limit trans inclusion. It's worth pointing out that cycling

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Speaker 2: has a body as to all Olympic sports. It should

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Speaker 2: prevent hate, beach, bigotry, and bullying, right, And that's called

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Speaker 2: safe Sport set up in twenty seventeen, and that was

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Speaker 2: following what happened at USA Gymnastics, right, which was widespread

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Speaker 2: sexual abuse of athletes. People I'm sure will remember that

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Speaker 2: Safe Sport, I feel fairly confident in saying has completely

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Speaker 2: failed in preventing abuse, preventing harassment, preventing bullying. What it

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Speaker 2: has done is is perhaps given a legal shield to

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Speaker 2: governing bodies, so has prevented them getting sued. But it's

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Speaker 2: done nothing to prevent this kind of bullying, which is

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Speaker 2: why athletes and the community you've had to taken it

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Speaker 2: upon themselves to do that, right, Like, if there's one

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Speaker 2: thing you should expect a governing body to do, it's

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Speaker 2: to make sure everyone feels safe at races. But people

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Speaker 2: were legitimately worried about racing in areas where they knew

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Speaker 2: there were a lot of not just turfs, but like

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Speaker 2: groups like the prowd boys, right, who have kind of

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Speaker 2: hung their hat on transphobia. I know people who didn't

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Speaker 2: go to races in areas where they were worried about that.

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Speaker 2: I know people who, like you know it, went out

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Speaker 2: of went to an effort every day to drive a

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Speaker 2: different way back to their hotel at races because they're

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Speaker 2: worried about Like, people genuinely felt unsafe doing something that

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Speaker 2: no one should feel unsafe doing, which is playing. So

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Speaker 2: as I said, you know who won't make you feel unsafe?

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Speaker 3: I I'm going to say the products and services, and

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Speaker 3: then I'm gonna.

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Speaker 2: They will wrap you up in a cocoon like blanket

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Speaker 2: of gold and coins and meal kits. How can do

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Speaker 2: you not feel so safe when you're surrounded by Reagan coins?

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Speaker 2: No one fact checked.

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Speaker 3: This is a fact check free zone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The following and preceding thirty seconds

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Speaker 2: have not been fact checked. All right, please enjoy these adverts,

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Speaker 2: and we are back and we're still talking about turfs.

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Speaker 2: So Saves Women's Sports, which is this organization that put

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Speaker 2: on the protests, presents itself as an organic reaction to

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Speaker 2: the participation of trans women, who it repeatedly misgenders in

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Speaker 2: women's categories. It claimed that several races in the cycle

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Speaker 2: across national championships privately did the organization to express concerns,

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Speaker 2: but only one, Ev Edwards, competed under the SWS team banner.

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Speaker 2: SWS at the time was not a nonprofit, so it

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Speaker 2: was relatively hard to find out what exactly their financial

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Speaker 2: ties to various other transphobic and right wing groups were.

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Speaker 2: It's registered in Minnesota as a business, but it appears

433
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 2: to be a sault. At the time, again, it was

434
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: a sole prop run by someone called best Steltzer. The

435
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 2: both Ev Edwards and SWS used the race to aggressively

436
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: fundraise for their campaign. Steltzer, for instance, at the time,

437
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: was making three hundred and eighty five bucks per month

438
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: on Patreon by quote creating awareness of males Invading female Spaces.

439
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 2: Page has been taken down since then. She turfed too

440
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: close to the sun. She also received donations on her

441
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: venmo page, which is very funny because I don't think

442
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: she realized hervenmo page was public checked it out in

443
00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: the judgment. Yeah, that there is no there there was

444
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: no distinction made between advocacy spending and personal spending on

445
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: that account, I will say. And she was taking a

446
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 2: donations and you know, making emoji purchases on her Venmo

447
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: at the time. I think maybe since has made it private.

448
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 3: But this is something that like if you ever want

449
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 3: to just like I don't know, if someone just like

450
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: appears in the news and they suck, like, go try

451
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: to find them on venmo because people just don't realize

452
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: that stuff. And oh yeah, you know, people like people

453
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: recently caught like I think we talked about Clarence tom

454
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: I think it was Clarence Thomas amazing paying his staffers

455
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 3: on venmo. Like you can find a bunch of very

456
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: funny stuff because people people are bad at doing crime.

457
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I cannot tell you how many people literally

458
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: had things on their Venmo like travel to DC and

459
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: like on January sixth, right like ven bowing each other

460
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 2: for like revolution tacos after they'd evaded the capital smart

461
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: stuff and no, no, please keep doing that if you're

462
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 2: planning transphobia or coups. So much of this awareness that

463
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: that save women's sports awareness. Like, I think if you're

464
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: ever donating to someone who's promoting quote unquote awareness of anything,

465
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 2: there should be a large red flag. It's an extremely

466
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 2: nebulous concept that very ready does anything to help anyone.

467
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: But much of this awareness seem to be tied to

468
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: pre standard right wing anti trans talking points and not

469
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 2: the many dozens, maybe hundreds of instances or transist women

470
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: happily compete alongside each other, have a nice time, do exercise,

471
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: go home, and don't engage in any bigotry. In the past,

472
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: WUS has worked with far right organizations like the Heritage

473
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 2: Foundation and the Family Research Council to prepare a guide

474
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 2: to quote help parents understand the transgender issue. Again, if

475
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 2: you're framing the existence of other people as an issue,

476
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: you know that far from flaming it as a question,

477
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: are you? Yeah? Like, I'm impressed the self awareness avoided

478
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: the transgender question, but like, only by you know, using

479
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: the thesaurus to reframe it as an issue. I guess

480
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 2: the guide refers to the transgender trend quote unquote and

481
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: repeatedly caused trans women men. They of course. Also you

482
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: know Steltzer in particular, it appears anti abortion rallies, anti

483
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 2: marriage equality rallies, things like that. Right, this is part

484
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 2: of a wider space of painting bigotry. It's not just

485
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: about support. Cyclists are taken it upon themselves to protect

486
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 2: trans riders, so access of solidarity, of range for blocking

487
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: SWS protesters and national Championships announces refusing to allegedly refusing

488
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 2: to mention races on the team. That's pretty funny, Yeah,

489
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: it is pretty funny. Also this Mney Cameron has this

490
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 2: organization called Ride, which is let trans kids ride and

491
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: money mate sees wristband which like a trans flag, the

492
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 2: transpride flag, and like one of my friends won the

493
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: biggest race in the US. It's cis guy with his

494
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: Transpride ristband on, which is you know a little thing.

495
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: But also like it's it's nice to see people show up,

496
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's nice to see and like it's rare

497
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: that you'll go to a race when people won't be

498
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: you won't see a few people wearing that, like in

499
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: pro men pro women, both like it's there are overwhelmingly

500
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: people don't give a fuck. They're just happy if you're

501
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 2: enjoying riding bikes. It's not like it's a big sport.

502
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 9: You know.

503
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: The real threat cycling is all of us getting killed

504
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: by people in tesla's playing pong, Like it's not it's

505
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: not trans women. But unfortunately the solidarity hasn't extended to

506
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: the governing body. So two years after this initial protest, right,

507
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: the UCI effectively banned all trans women from participating in

508
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: elite level cycling. This happened just a few weeks before

509
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: the World Championships. Like, I have friends who had to

510
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 2: cancel their flights. Yeah, it was the most bungled, fucked

511
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 2: up pseudoscience kind of half fast, Like it was just

512
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: a mess. The whole thing was a fucking mess. They

513
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: had an extraordinary meeting in August, just a few weeks

514
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: before the World Championships, and like people previously had to

515
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 2: have a submit blood numbers to show a testosterone level

516
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: to compete, right, which is a thing lots of governing

517
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: bodies have been doing for a while now. They had

518
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: certified people, like weeks before this, they'd be like, yeah,

519
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: you're good to go for another year and then psych no,

520
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: you're not. You can't compete ever again. And like, this

521
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: is people's jobs, right, this is their livelihood, it's how

522
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: they pay rents. It's also like being an elite cyclist

523
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: is hard. It is most of your life, right, Like

524
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: you're you've got to sleep or you got to eat, right,

525
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: You've got to train all the fucking time. You can't

526
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: go out, you're going to be resting when you're not training.

527
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: To take all that away from someone with a click

528
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: of the fingers and bringing no consultation for them, it's

529
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: incredibly cruel. And the I'll just read their statement because

530
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of things in it we

531
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: should pick apart. Obviously, you can't take Woying for it

532
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: being inherently transphobic. From now on, female transgender athletes who

533
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: have transitioned after quote male puberty will be prohibited from

534
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: participating women's events on the UCI International Calendar in all

535
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: categories in the various disciplines. Notably, they also said it's

536
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: also impossible to rule out the possibility that biomechanical factors

537
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: such as the shape and arrangement of the bones in

538
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: their limbs may constitute a lasting advantage for female transgender athletes. Yeah,

539
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: it's yea, there's a lot going on there, right, Like

540
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: they use female where where most people would use woman.

541
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: The barrier they set is to rule out any possibility

542
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: of an advantage, right, which is a very high barrier.

543
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: That's like a kind of guilty, and to improve it

544
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 2: innocent situation. Right, Like I'd also like the arrangement of

545
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: the bones in my limbs changed significantly when I was

546
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: racing bikes because I broke them all the fucking time. Like,

547
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: such such a strange category to choose. Also, the requirement

548
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 2: that you transition before puberty. That's not the same as

549
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: taking puberty blockers, right, They're requiring that you're taking the

550
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: hormones before puberty, like like eleven or twelve, yeah.

551
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: Which which is just also now illegal in an enormous

552
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: number of states, like.

553
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even most from what I understand, most gender

554
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: affirming care takes the approach of taking puberty blockers rather

555
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: than yeah.

556
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: Well this is this is sort of like, I mean,

557
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 3: this is sort of the disaster that's been happening in

558
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: the last like four or five years on this, which

559
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: is that like like taking puberty blockers was the compromise position, yes,

560
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: like that was the position that was taken because people

561
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: thought it was too dangerous to like let kids do hot,

562
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: which it's not like it's completely fine.

563
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: In fact, it's actually like you.

564
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: Know, you're you're going to go through puberty anyways, right,

565
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 3: You're like like if if you are in a human body,

566
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: you are doing uncontrolled puberty, and that is less safe

567
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: than doing a controlled puberty, which is what you know,

568
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: doing like doing it turgy when you're a child is yeah,

569
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 3: but yeah, the young vice position was like, oh well

570
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: we're not we're gonna do those will do puberty blockers,

571
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 3: and then like everyone went insane about puberty blockers. And

572
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: now like even the compromised position has been sort of

573
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: like you know, I mean like when we're away that

574
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: and it's like okay, like you know, but and then

575
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: and then like and then you know, like now and

576
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: then having done this right and it's like, oh well,

577
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: now you can set up all of these rules that

578
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: are like require you to have done a thing you've

579
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: now made illegal. It's like this is great, yeah, exactly right.

580
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: You now have a rule that basically bans almost anyone

581
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: from participation, like you have to begin transitioning at eleven.

582
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: It's also very nebulous, like male puberty, Like like what

583
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: does that mean? What what point are you to finding

584
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: you have been through male puberty? Like are we going

585
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: to aftereople to submit their fucking testosterone numbers from when

586
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: they were eight? Like yeah, Like it's it's just a man,

587
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: It's what it is, right, Like it it's a you

588
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: can't ever transition satisfactorily enough.

589
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, or like, for example, I don't know, so like

590
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: let's say you you you are on Like let's say

591
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 3: you don't start hormones until you're like twenty four, but

592
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: but you rearrange the bones in your body.

593
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: It this allows you? Did you now have feminine bone arrangement?

594
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: Does this now allows you to cycle gender affirming orthopedic surgery?

595
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 4: Yeah?

596
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: And like and also this, And I want to get

597
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: into this a little bit because it completely obfuscates or

598
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: ignores I guess what we know to be true that

599
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: there is not a binary puberty process, because there is not.

600
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: Humans don't exist in a binary sex nor egisted binary genders. Right,

601
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 2: So I think probably the best example of this would

602
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 2: be Malie Jose Martinez Patigno. If people aren't familiar with her. Obviously,

603
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: Google is right there for you. But she was dismissed

604
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: from a Spanish Olympic team in nineteen eighty six for

605
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 2: failing the gender test. She's publicly shamed for being like

606
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: a secret male. She loses her fiancee, she loses her funding,

607
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 2: she loses almost everything. She fought and won a successful

608
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: court battle, illustrating the fallacy of this binary gender approach.

609
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: But she's not a trans woman, to be clear. She's

610
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: an intersexual woman who has androgen insensitivity syndrome. But she

611
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: was able to They were using chromosome typing, right, Like

612
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: you'll often this is a thing that you'll still see

613
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 2: turf trotting out right, something that was outdated in nineteen

614
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: eighty six, that like xx or x Y, that is

615
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: that is not a binary that fits the entirety of

616
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 2: the human species.

617
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like a lot of people for a lot

618
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: of other different kinds.

619
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 2: It's like it's again, like I get it, you didn't.

620
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 2: You're not a biologist. That's fine, It's okay to shut

621
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 2: the fuck up if you don't understand something.

622
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this this is one of those things that

623
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: sucks because it's like like I wish these people had

624
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 3: decided to like try to build airplanes based off of

625
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 3: like pre Deutornian or something work, because it's like there's

626
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: no consequence for them for not understanding biology. But it's

627
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: like I don't know, like it like if if you,

628
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 3: if you, if you're trying to argue that like general

629
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 3: relativity doesn't exist, like you're you're like your satellite is

630
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,479
Speaker 3: gonna fall on you. But this, this is the one

631
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: thing where you can just like you can say ship that.

632
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: It's not even like like people people make the joke

633
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: it's like high school biology. It's like it's not it's

634
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: just like elementary school biology. And it's not right, like

635
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: like YouTube biology, isn't it.

636
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: That's what it is? Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly.

637
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

638
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 2: But unfortunately the consequences of people who are not them, Yeah,

639
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: and that's hugely unfortunate, right, Like even we see like

640
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: Cassa Semnia when a cult case this month or last month,

641
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: like allowing her to compete again, we found time and

642
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: again that this notion of a binary sex is as

643
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: nonsense to call as a motion of a binary gender.

644
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: And yet we continue to try and force people into

645
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: these different competitions. I just want to read a statement

646
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: that Austin made and like, it's very hard not to

647
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 2: see this as them, specifically seeing Austin winning a big

648
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: stage race in New Mexico and going like, right, we

649
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: can't fucking have that, Like as soon as trans women

650
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: win stuff, right, It's fine if they come and then

651
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 2: don't win, but as soon as they win stuff. And again,

652
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 2: if she had this inherent, massive biological advantage, she would

653
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: have won everything, which hasn't happened, she said. I'm devastated

654
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: by the UCI decision to renege on the policy and

655
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: framework it previously set out for inclusion. My journey in

656
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 2: professional racing has allowed me to see the world, build

657
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: lifelong friendships, and most importantly, if my absolutely or something

658
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: I find deeply fulfilling, no one should be denied the

659
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: opportunity to chase that same joy that I and others

660
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: found through racing, which I think is great, and I

661
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: think it's important to lift up her voice in this

662
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: and other transathlete voices. In theory, there is what's called

663
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 2: an open category, which is the men's category. The problem

664
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: is that there are no open races, and that this category,

665
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: like if you line up as a trans woman in

666
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 2: the fucking open category. You're being very clearly othered, right, Yeah,

667
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: you're being like you're Some of them also will have

668
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: women's licenses, like it's not clear what men's category they

669
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: can race in. But more importantly, I think, as Chris

670
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: Mosia pointed out, people will be familiar as Chris as

671
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: the first trans athlete tend Olympic trials in the US.

672
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: The open category contradicts both International Olympic committeeuidelines on fairness

673
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: and inclusion and extensive research of states trans women do

674
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: not have an inherent advantage in sport. Chris is a

675
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: good follow on Twitter. It's to the Chris Mosia.

676
00:37:59,360 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 8: But.

677
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: It contradicts even like the IOC. Again, not like on

678
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: the bastions of wokeness, people who sent the Olympics to

679
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: the Nazis have a better policy than this. And yet

680
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 2: cycling has chosen to go above and beyond, and in

681
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: large part I can't not see that as because of

682
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: the attention paid to this by people who do not

683
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: give a fuck about cycling, because they've found a wedge,

684
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: because our community has generally been inclusive. Like even after

685
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: this at the World Championships, there were people with trans

686
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 2: flags course, you know, like world championship or which trans

687
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 2: women could not compete advocating for inclusion. Right, it was

688
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: in Glasgow, and as a rule, the sport I think

689
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 2: has been accepting Like I've never cycled, not known there

690
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: being trans people in cycling, and I've cycled a lot,

691
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: but this has allowed trans people to thrive. And when

692
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: trans people started describing these fucking bigots to make this

693
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: a wedge issue and that's why it's happening here. But

694
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: it's also fucking happening in chess. So do you want

695
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: to do you want to talk about chess?

696
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 7: Man?

697
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: This is this is insane, Okay.

698
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 3: The weird part about the chess one is like I

699
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: I don't know, I had. This is not something that

700
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: anyone in chess was like talking about. Like chess has

701
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,959
Speaker 3: like a lot of incredibly weird and bizarre political stuff

702
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: going on, but like they're I had, I don't know.

703
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: Maybe I just missed it, or maybe it was just

704
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: like a part of the chess discourse I wasn't following,

705
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: But like I I don't know, really truly weirdly, just

706
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 3: seemingly out of nowhere.

707
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: I don't know what is going on with this seemingly out.

708
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: Of nowhere fee Day, which is like the International Chess

709
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 3: Federation released the statement, released this like policy that says

710
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 3: that like it has a lot of weird stuff and

711
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: effectively sets up fee Day as like what I can

712
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: only describe as an gender council, where like, if you

713
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 3: want to like change your gender, you have to like

714
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: submit it to fe DA and then fee DA gets

715
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 3: to decide what gender you are. So great, great things

716
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 3: happening here. And then also for some reason, Okay, so

717
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 3: chess has had this thing for a while where chess

718
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: has like there are like women's sections for stuff, and

719
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of some weird stuff going on here.

720
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 3: So like there's the regular title like Grandmaster, there's also

721
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 3: like a women's Grandmaster thing which has different qualification, is

722
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 3: slightly different, and this was this was set up basically

723
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: because like the guys who play chess are insane, Like

724
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: I've talked about this some of the Bobby Fisher episodes right,

725
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: like they're like most of the most famous chess players

726
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: in history are like utterly deranged Neo Nazis or like

727
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: like people who are even weirder than Neo Nazis, like

728
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 3: like like unreconstructed like nineteen seventeen czarists like people like that,

729
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 3: like just people with with like truly truly deeply weird

730
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: political ideologies that are like unbelievably right wing, and you know,

731
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 3: and like part of part of what like happens here

732
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 3: is that like just chess in general is like unfathomably sexist,

733
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 3: Like it's it's really really bad, and you know, like

734
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 3: their solution to this effectively was like to create this

735
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: like kind of parallel like women's infrastructure, which kind of

736
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 3: works and kind of hasn't in a lot of ways.

737
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 3: And you know, like part of what's going on is

738
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 3: just like, okay, so a lot of girls, like young

739
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: girls play chess, but there's this bottleneck that happens around

740
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: when you're like thirteen or fourteen, while this is twelve

741
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: to thirteen, So there's fourteen where like the number of

742
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 3: girls playing chess just like collapses, right, And the reason

743
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: that happens is because boys are fucking dog.

744
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: Shit Like this is this.

745
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: Is like literally what's happening, right, is like you have

746
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 3: a bunch of sexist, like really sex as boys. And

747
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 3: then the product of this is that because there's so

748
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: many fewer like women who play chess and there are

749
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: men you play chess, Like there's just like the example,

750
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: like there's way less like women who are like really

751
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 3: high rated chess players. And that's because there's just like

752
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: like the barrier of institutional sexism to like become a

753
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: woman who's really good at chess is so high. And

754
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 3: then yeah, okay, so so this this is the sort

755
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 3: of background, So like there are these separate like women's

756
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 3: like tournaments and stuff like that, and so fee DA,

757
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 3: which is the Chess Federation, released this thing where Okay,

758
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 3: so they say a few things. One is that, okay,

759
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 3: the the the big one is that if you like,

760
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 3: if you are a trans woman, you cannot play in

761
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: official feed day events or women until fee Day does something.

762
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: And it's not entirely clear what that is.

763
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 2: So is it like a testosterone level you have to submit?

764
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 3: Wait, literally, I'm just gonna read this sentence because it's

765
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: it's utterly unclear what is going on here. In the

766
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 3: event that the gender was changed from male to female,

767
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: the player has no right to participate in official fee

768
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 3: day events or women until free Day's decision is made.

769
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 3: Such decision should be based on further analysis and should

770
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: and shall be taken by the fee Day Council at

771
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 3: the earliest possible time, but no longer than within a

772
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: two year period.

773
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 2: So it's you can be out for two years. Well

774
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:55,479
Speaker 2: yeah wait wait why what the fuck? Like what what what? What?

775
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 10: Like?

776
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 3: What what are they possibly like analyzing here?

777
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 4: Right?

778
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: Like I I is it?

779
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 5: Is it?

780
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: Like like what what? What? What?

781
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 7: What it?

782
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 3: What is supposed to be the thing that differentiates like

783
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 3: the genders that like lets you that makes you not

784
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 3: be able to compete in the women's category? Like is

785
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 3: it like like is it like if you played you

786
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: aggressively or some ship?

787
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: Like what? What?

788
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 5: Yeah?

789
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: Well it's baffling. Yeah, that is a bizarre decision like

790
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: and yeah, like you said, it's just completely It's not

791
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: even that they're not it's not an Olympic sport, right,

792
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: It's not like they have to conform to any IOC guidelines.

793
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: It's yeah is the chess cartel right, like they can

794
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 3: do whatever they want, you know, I mean, like I know,

795
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 3: expecting FIDE to do stuff that isn't insane is like,

796
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 3: look like this is the organization that after uh that,

797
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: after Bobbie Fisher went on the radio in the Philippines

798
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 3: and said that he hopes that the government like rounds

799
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 3: up all Jewish people and kills them, like they let

800
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: him back into feed A after that. So, like, you know,

801
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 3: a great organization run by amazing people here. Yeah, but

802
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 3: this is I don't know, it's it's incredibly deeply weird.

803
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 3: Like the thing I keep thinking about is I don't know,

804
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 3: this is kind of a weird, kind of silly story

805
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: in some ways. But like so, like the first trans

806
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 3: person that I was like aware of it was a

807
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: trans StarCraft two player named Scarlett, and she's great, She's awesome,

808
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: Scarlet rules she actually she she she's she's one of

809
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 3: three non Korean players ever to win a tournament in Korea, which,

810
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 3: like I I don't know how to express how difficult

811
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 3: it is to win a StarCraft tournament Korea. Like it

812
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: would be like if a football team from like Siberia

813
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 3: showed up to the US was somehow allowed to play

814
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: in the NFL and then like won the Super Bowl.

815
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 3: Like that, That's about the level of difficulty it is

816
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: to win a StarCraft tournament in Korea.

817
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Jamaica bove safe team moment.

818
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, But like like yeah, so, like you know,

819
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: it's it's one of those sort of like really wild things.

820
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: But like one of the things I remember about that

821
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 3: was like she was always, as best I could tell,

822
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 3: like always allowed like StarCraft also had a women's division

823
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 3: because you know, very very similar like probably even more

824
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 3: intense sort of sexis going yeah, yeah, being pretty toxic

825
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 3: you know, and like like yeah, like it was actually

826
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: you know, over the arc of like the like the

827
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: like over a decade she's been playing, like you know,

828
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: like I've seen the scene get less transphobic. But like,

829
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: as much as I could tell, there was never like

830
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: a thing in the women's tournament. There always just like yeah, sure, hey,

831
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: look a girl wants to play StarCraft like this rips

832
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 3: and yeah yeah yeah, well more of us like yeah yeah,

833
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: like you know, and she's also like and she's like

834
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: again really really good at the game.

835
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: But like you know, but like like this is the

836
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 2: thing that like historically.

837
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 3: Hasn't I don't know, like like Jenny Wiley like in

838
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: in games like this that are like not well, okay,

839
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 3: StarCraft is enormously more athletic than Chess, but like yeah,

840
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 3: like you know, like this has been a thing where

841
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 3: people Like there's if you're in one of these like

842
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 3: incredibly sexist environments, there's like a real like really obvious

843
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 3: like both trans women and since women like we're all

844
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: in this together thing because you get to look at

845
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: like the fucking ravening hordes of like absolutely deranged psychos

846
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 3: in like the twitch chat and be like, oh god,

847
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 3: they hate both of us. Yeah, yeah, which is also

848
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 3: like I think the other thing about this is like

849
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 3: it's unclear like who at feet day like decided this,

850
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 3: Like this doc just like appeared, and so there's like

851
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 3: a non zero chance this decision is being made by men,

852
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 3: Like pretty high that this is just like a decision

853
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 3: made by a bunch of men because fuck them, and

854
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 3: they've just decided that, like you know, just like literally

855
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 3: not giving a shit about women's jess for like the

856
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 3: entirety of its existence. They've finally decided to do something,

857
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 3: and they do something is make me not be able

858
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 3: to play women's tournaments.

859
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: Like right, yeah, you didn't take action when body Bobby

860
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 2: Fisher went full Nazi, but you decided to.

861
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like okay, this is great, great, great things

862
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 3: are happening.

863
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, talking of Nazis. There was a

864
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: it was I think actually a a again a nonbine

865
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 2: or like an intersex woman who competed for the Nazis

866
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty six at the Olympics. Yeah, with I'm

867
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: not entirely sure of her, like like external external sex presentation,

868
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: I guess, but later definitely served as a man in

869
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: the German Armed Forces. But that could have been a

870
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 2: forced social transition. But yeah, there's a long history of

871
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: us trying to work out gender ship through sport, and

872
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: I guess I just want to finish by, like, if

873
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: you don't give a shit about sport, you have to

874
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 2: understand this is still important because like sport's always about

875
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 2: like who's on our team and who's not right. That's

876
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: why we didn't let black people play baseball in this

877
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: fucking country. It's why they took like Olympic medals away

878
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 2: from indigenous people for violating stupid amateurism rules because they

879
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: were designed to only let people have a certain class pay.

880
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: It's why Colin Kafmack doesn't have a job, right, Yeah,

881
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 2: it's why people didn't want to go to the Nazi

882
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 2: Olympics and went to one in Barcelona, and it was bigger.

883
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 2: Like sports not just about being the best to exercise,

884
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 2: it's it's a social tool to include or exclude people.

885
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: And if you care about including people, then I think

886
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: you have to care about sport right now, because that

887
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: is a wedge that transfers are using to exclude people.

888
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's what I have for you.

889
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 4: I don't know.

890
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: If you have money, you can give it to Molly

891
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: Molly Cameron, you can. You can find her online. She

892
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 2: will help more trans kids ride or yeah, yeah, go

893
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 2: go ride a bike. It's fun.

894
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 3: And uh, if, if, if, if, if you are one

895
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 3: of the seven people in the world who still thinks

896
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 3: that Colin Kaepernick doesn't have a job because he's not

897
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 3: good enough of football, come find Come find me in

898
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: the Bear's parking lot. I will force you to watch

899
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 3: an entire season of the Chicago Bears, like, like, watch

900
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 3: every quarterback we've ever fucking had in my lifetime, and

901
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 3: then I will beat you. You will you will you

902
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 3: will you will you you will be you will be

903
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 3: in a catatonic state after that.

904
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 2: I just found proven right. Money's website is ridegroup dot.

905
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,959
Speaker 2: People want to check that out? Oh oh yeah, find

906
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 2: find Connin Kaepernick on the internet watch videos.

907
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 3: Okay, that was that was That was slightly longer of

908
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 3: an a total shriek. Now is it's back, And Robert

909
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 3: has been coming after me for not doing a total

910
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 3: shrieks to start the podcast enough so that that's how

911
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 3: we're starting this episode. It could happen here the podcast

912
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: where we taken into nowhere's victory lap because yeah, so

913
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 3: if you've been following the discourse about inflation over the

914
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 3: past about two two and a half years, and especially

915
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: in the last like maybe year or so, so very

916
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: interesting stuff has been happening, and the stuff that we've

917
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 3: talked about on this show, and then also stuff that's

918
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 3: been sort of moving around in the sort of broader

919
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: discourse and has now reached like the IMF. And the

920
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 3: thing that's been happening is that the theory of inflation

921
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 3: that I've we've been pushing on this show, and that

922
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 3: also very importantly I that has been being developed by

923
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: Strange Matters has been like incredibly vindicated to the point

924
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: of everyone else adopting it and then claiming that they

925
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 3: invented it. So yeah, we're this is this is this

926
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 3: is the this is the inflation Victory Lab episode and

927
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 3: to talk about the fact that these two people and

928
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 3: their colleagues were right about inflation and a bunch of

929
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: other stuff too. Is John Michael Kolan and Steve Mann,

930
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 3: who are both co editors of the magazine Strange Matters,

931
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 3: And yeah, both.

932
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: FIJU, welcome to the show.

933
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 7: Thanks so much for having USA.

934
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm excited about this because I've been wanting

935
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 3: to do this episode for like ever since. So the

936
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 3: the IMF tweeted out a graph that was arguing that like,

937
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 3: I think it's like like fifty percent of inflation and

938
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 3: the EU was based on corporate profits, which was like

939
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 3: them basically, and this is this is them, and like

940
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 3: all the mainstream economists are finally like having to admit

941
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 3: that we were fucking right about inflation.

942
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess before we get into.

943
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 3: What you two were arguing and what your colleagues are arguing,

944
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 3: we should talk a bit about, like I guess who

945
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,959
Speaker 3: you two are, and also like talk about Strange Matters again,

946
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 3: because I think it's been a bit since y'all have

947
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: been on.

948
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 7: Yeah. Absolutely, so Strange Matters is a this is our

949
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 7: kind of boiler plate, a magazine of new and unconventional

950
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 7: thinking in economics, politics, and culture. And we have a

951
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 7: political bent, so we are broadly speaking all some flavor

952
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 7: of libertarian. Socialist is kind of the umbrella term that

953
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 7: we've used for ourselves, but that varies depending on the

954
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 7: individual kind of members of the team. So we've got

955
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 7: people who are anarchists, We've got people who are inspired

956
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 7: by like democratic and federalism. We've got like people who

957
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 7: don't like a lot of those labels but are really

958
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 7: into like direct democracy stuff. But like you know, the

959
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 7: the four of us basically converge on the direct democracy,

960
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 7: you know, socialism is putting people in charge of the

961
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 7: decisions that affect them kind of school of things. So

962
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 7: in terms of our economics pages, however, we've for the

963
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 7: last couple of years been really dedicated to publishing heterodox economists,

964
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 7: economists who don't correspond to the usually quite right wing

965
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 7: mainstream of the economics discipline, but challenging in fundamental ways.

966
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 7: And there's a bunch of different schools of heterodox economics,

967
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,879
Speaker 7: like you know, everyone knows about like Marxists, but there's

968
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 7: also post Kinesians and ecological economics and feminist economics, and

969
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 7: a whole bunch of different schools. We've been dedicated to

970
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 7: publishing people from all those different schools and trying to

971
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 7: kind of get them to write in a style that's

972
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 7: more accessible for ordinary people, so that some of those

973
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 7: ideas actually start not just reaching the public, but actually

974
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 7: reaching each other because they don't really talk to each

975
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 7: other very much.

976
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 3: This is this is one of this is one of

977
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 3: the big problems is like, I mean, even just inside

978
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: of Marxism, like if you get six Marxists same we

979
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 3: all have nine different positions and they'll all be like

980
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 3: ready to murder each other over it. And that's that's

981
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 3: just the Marxists, and then you expand out to all

982
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: the rest of the other heterodoxicontaoust people, and there's a

983
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 3: lot of weird and sort of pointless rivalries going on

984
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 3: that prevents people from like fusing really useful theories together.

985
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 11: Yeah.

986
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 7: Absolutely, Yeah.

987
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 4: We tried to be a platform for diverging opinions to

988
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 4: actually be put into dialogue with each other. And we've

989
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 4: definitely I don't think there's been a single piece that

990
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 4: all of us have been in lockstep agreement on theoretically,

991
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 4: and I think that's a real strength. Actually, yeah, like

992
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 4: there's there's quite a there's quite a few pieces that

993
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 4: at least one of us is like, I still don't

994
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 4: really know about this thesis, but I've been there have

995
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,479
Speaker 4: been times in which I've been down on a piece,

996
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 4: but it does amazing, so let's go with it.

997
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 7: And also, you know, part of the reasoning for that

998
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 7: is not just to kind of like Lucy Goosey, let's

999
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 7: all get along and sing around a camp, but it's

1000
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 7: actually a very principled thing because part of the story

1001
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 7: that we're telling with the magazine is how we have

1002
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 7: these enormous problems, you know, climate change, the whole crisis

1003
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 7: that the democracies have been going through since the two

1004
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 7: thousand and eight crisis, the whole and since like the

1005
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 7: rise of global fascism in the twenty tens, like the

1006
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 7: what are we going to do about like the Internet

1007
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 7: and its future? What are we going to do about

1008
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 7: these these horrible culture war type issues that like, you know,

1009
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 7: people talk about it as the culture of war, but

1010
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 7: actually it's these massive reconfigurations that we have to do

1011
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 7: of our consciousness in order to think about you know, gender,

1012
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 7: national identity, and ethnic identity and all these other things

1013
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 7: in different in new ways that are actually like freeing

1014
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 7: and emancipating and stuff like. Like all of these problems

1015
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 7: are vast and nobody actually knows what the answer is,

1016
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 7: and that includes leftists. Like there's a lot of these

1017
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 7: problems that are either like too technical or too complex

1018
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 7: for any one person to have the solution. So there

1019
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 7: needs to be a space where we kind of come

1020
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 7: together people who are kind of like of good faith

1021
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 7: and who like are trying to kind of do the

1022
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 7: whole democracy and egalitarianism thing, and we actually butt our

1023
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 7: heads together across lines of difference and are like, Okay,

1024
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 7: what are we going to do about this, and what

1025
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 7: are our different perspectives and what's the what's the common ground,

1026
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 7: and what are some little bits and pieces of things

1027
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 7: that people have figured out that we can kind of

1028
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 7: stitch together into something that will let us not just

1029
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 7: get steamrolled by the fascists. And that that's the kind

1030
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 7: of space that we're trying to be, and that's why

1031
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 7: we try to accommodate these different perspectives, even though we

1032
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 7: ourselves tend to come from rather strong perspectives both individually

1033
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 7: and as a group.

1034
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and and I think we.

1035
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 3: Can like this inflation sort of argument that's been playing

1036
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: over the past few years, I think is a really

1037
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 3: like it's a really good indication of how well this

1038
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 3: stuff can work. If it's if it's like, you.

1039
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 9: Know, like.

1040
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 3: The fact that y'all have basically had the inflation theory

1041
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 3: that like a bunch of mainstream economists we're going to

1042
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 3: stumble over in the last like eight months, had effectively

1043
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 3: written we're discussing and we're writing it like two years ago.

1044
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 3: Is a is a sign that something is going right?

1045
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, we feel really vindicated.

1046
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's been very, very very funny to watch.

1047
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: So I guess we should move into a bit about

1048
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: what this.

1049
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: Theory actually is.

1050
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 3: And the very very short version of it is that

1051
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 3: it's a supply chain theory of inflation. It's a theory

1052
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 3: of inflation that tracks, you know, tracks price increases based

1053
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 3: on like like price movement based on stuff happening like

1054
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 3: backwards in the supply chain. And yeah, that turns out

1055
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 3: to have been a really useful both predictive thing and

1056
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 3: explanatory thing once the inflation actually started.

1057
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just.

1058
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 7: Really wanted to highlight that it's Steve who wrote the

1059
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 7: initial essay where we first put those pieces together. It's

1060
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 7: it's Steve's supply chain theory of inflation, foren' anybody else

1061
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 7: is So I definitely I defer to you in terms of,

1062
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 7: you know, laying the groundwork for it.

1063
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 4: Well. I wrote a piece called Notes toward e Theory Inflation,

1064
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 4: and it was kind of born partly out of frustration

1065
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 4: over the fuzzy language in which economists will try to

1066
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 4: speak about inflation. And when I was a grad student,

1067
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 4: I would like encounter it not just from any particular school,

1068
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 4: but from broadly speaking, most of the schools of economics.

1069
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 4: And like it's been prior to this inflationary episode and history,

1070
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 4: it's been almost forty years since we've experienced anything like this.

1071
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 4: And you know, in the in the last period of

1072
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 4: like runaway inflation in the eighties, people were having a

1073
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 4: similar reckoning, although they didn't quite coalesce around supply gene

1074
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 4: and cost puss related theories of inflation like they are

1075
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 4: at this time. But like the theory like in a nutshell,

1076
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 4: the supply chain theory of inflation is essentially saying that

1077
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 4: along there are groups of businesses called supply chains who

1078
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 4: buy inputs from each other in order to produce products

1079
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 4: and sell them to either the next person in the

1080
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 4: chain or to outside consumers that the end user and

1081
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 4: over time, given stressful enough biophysical conditions that they all

1082
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 4: find themselves in even if they don't want to raise prices.

1083
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 4: And broadly speaking, we know from empirical studies that most

1084
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 4: businesses most of the time are very biased towards not

1085
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 4: raising prices. If the situation gets dire enough and they've

1086
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 4: run they've exhausted all of their non price based mechanisms

1087
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 4: for dealing with bottlenecks what are called bottlenecks in the

1088
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 4: supply chain, Like they just don't have enough of the

1089
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 4: inputs that they need in or to sell enough stuff

1090
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 4: at assert at their normal price in order to make

1091
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 4: enough revenue to socially reproduce themselves and their supply chain.

1092
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 4: Eventually they will exhaust all options and there will be

1093
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 4: one person who's kind of like the progenitor price increaser.

1094
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 4: And because like every single and like, what is inflation, really,

1095
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 4: it's a general rise in prices. What are prices? Prices

1096
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 4: are things that people themselves inside of firms, it's their

1097
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 4: job to set and so any theory of inflation needs

1098
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 4: to start with a theory of price essentially. And like,

1099
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 4: so these managers whose job it is to set prices,

1100
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 4: when they change prices, why did they do it? Well,

1101
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 4: we have answers going back many decades, almost a century

1102
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 4: of the surveys of economists who have gone out and

1103
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 4: actually conducted surveys asking under what conditions would you raise prices?

1104
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 4: And at no time did anyone say, oh, I raise

1105
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 4: prices because I looked at monetary aggregates and I saw

1106
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 4: that there was too much money, so I raised prices

1107
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 4: that and so like that was kind of a starting

1108
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 4: point for me when I when I read those these

1109
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 4: surveys conducted by Gardner Means, who is an economists and

1110
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 4: doing this work in the twenties and thirties long. If

1111
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 4: I don't burrow, I got really excited because I'm like, oh,

1112
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 4: of course, well, of course it's inflation. There's so much

1113
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 4: mysticism about like piles of money building up, and then

1114
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 4: it's like demand pull and cost push, and like what

1115
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 4: does this all mean? Right? Well, at the bottom of it,

1116
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 4: it's what are pricing managers doing when they make that

1117
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 4: fateful decision to be the first guy to raise prices,

1118
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 4: because there is one. It has to start with someone,

1119
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 4: and it's usually, like I was saying, they've exhausted all

1120
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 4: of their other methods of dealing with this, such as

1121
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 4: rationing inputs or economizing like increasing their efficiency and their production,

1122
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 4: or diversifying their product lines and all this stuff in

1123
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 4: order to maintain customer goodwill throughout a period of biophysical

1124
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 4: stress to the supply chain. And they're just going to

1125
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 4: raise prices because they have to get a certain amount

1126
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 4: of revenue in order to make it as a business.

1127
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 4: So that's essentially what the supply chain theory is is

1128
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 4: that when that happens, it propagates along supply chains first

1129
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 4: and then because nowadays our economy is so extremely integrated,

1130
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 4: it's not just one supply line. It's an entire supply

1131
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 4: chain network nowadays, and it's global in scope, so even

1132
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 4: if it can't it's it's increasingly less constrained to just

1133
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 4: like one industry or even one country these days.

1134
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 7: That was a that was a beautiful explanation. That's that's

1135
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 7: probably the most concise that we've that we've accomplished yet

1136
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 7: at boiling it down. I'll just because this is the

1137
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 7: problem is that we could go on for like thirty

1138
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 7: minutes about this. Yeah, just this, I guess I have

1139
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 7: a couple of things to add that are just like

1140
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 7: digging out a couple of nuances that I think are

1141
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 7: important for listeners to understand. What Steve said about inflation

1142
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 7: being about a continuous general increase in prices is really

1143
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 7: really profound. I think the first person to articulate that

1144
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 7: I'm aware of was John K. Galbraith in an essay

1145
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 7: that he wrote about that, but in like the fifties.

1146
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,959
Speaker 7: But like, that's honestly not the way that we usually

1147
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 7: think of it, right, Like, usually we think that inflation

1148
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 7: is when money, the value of money goes down value

1149
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 7: money buys you less than it usually does. And that

1150
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 7: is not just because that's how we experience it in

1151
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 7: our pocketbooks. Everything else is just scott more expensive. It

1152
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 7: also has to do with the kind of history of

1153
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 7: theories of inflation, because back in the day, the first

1154
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 7: and og theory of inflation, which people still some of

1155
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 7: them believe in, is the quantity theory of money, and

1156
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 7: it basically envisions like the entire economic universe as a

1157
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 7: bunch of like atomized individual agents. And by the way,

1158
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 7: there's no like distinction between companies and how households or

1159
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 7: anything like that here.

1160
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 2: Everyone's kind of like funny.

1161
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 7: It's just everyone's an individual agent. And there's a bunch

1162
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 7: of stuff that already exists out there in the economy.

1163
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 7: How it was produced, I mean, you deal with that

1164
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 7: in a production function. Other than that, like you don't

1165
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 7: talk about it. So there's a bunch of existing stuff

1166
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 7: out there in the economy and it's scarce, right, so

1167
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 7: like how is it going to be distributed? Well, we're

1168
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,880
Speaker 7: trading the stuff that we have for the stuff that

1169
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 7: we need. And when things are more scarce, they're more valuable.

1170
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 7: When things are more abundant, they're less valuable. And when

1171
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 7: we want them more they're more valuable, we want them less,

1172
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 7: they're less valuable. So that's kind of like like the

1173
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 7: very basic universe that they're kind of like operating in.

1174
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 7: And money was just seen to be one one good

1175
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 7: being traded like any other. It just so happens to

1176
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 7: be the one that we trade in exchange for everything else.

1177
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 7: So rather than doing barter like like of everything, you know,

1178
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 7: many chickens for this amount of haircut, you know, like instead,

1179
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 7: it's like, you know, we choose one thing to be

1180
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 7: exchangeable for everything else, but it still has a value,

1181
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 7: which is basically determined, according to this theory, by how

1182
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 7: much of it there is. So if you increase the

1183
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 7: money supply, money gets less valuable, which is why you know,

1184
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 7: everything becomes more expensive, prices go up. Whereas if the

1185
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 7: money supply shrinks, you know, then the value of money

1186
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 7: is higher relative to the goods that it buys, so

1187
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 7: therefore prices will go down. This was the theory that

1188
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 7: was developed in like the sixteen and seventeen hundreds to

1189
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 7: try to explain a massive global inflation that happened then

1190
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 7: in the so called price revolution of the seventeenth century.

1191
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 7: And frankly everyone by the twentieth century knows that there's

1192
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 7: huge issues with this, so they start trying to evolve

1193
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 7: away from it, away from the quantity theory of money,

1194
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 7: because it has no real empure goal basis. I mean,

1195
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 7: some people tried to kind of like, you know, juke

1196
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 7: the stats to make it look like there was but like, really,

1197
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 7: our best estimates of the money supply have no real

1198
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 7: good correspondence to prices in the economy. It's not it

1199
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 7: doesn't really work that way.

1200
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, this is this is the sort of modern

1201
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 3: version of this is called monetarism, which is like that's real. Yeah,

1202
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:23,439
Speaker 3: And this is like, this is maybe the only thing

1203
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 3: I have ever seen even like most neoclassical economists drop

1204
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 3: because it's empirically wrong, like it's stunning, Like you do

1205
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,479
Speaker 3: you know how wrong something has to be for neo

1206
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 3: classical economists to go, wait, hold on, maybe this isn't right,

1207
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 3: Like it's it's incredible.

1208
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 7: But the problem is that they retreated into theories that

1209
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 7: are not necessarily right either. Yeah, perhaps perhaps groping their

1210
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 7: way clumsily towards the truth, but not really that right.

1211
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 7: So this is this is where all that pull and

1212
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 7: push stuff comes in, and it's it's it's a little

1213
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 7: too technical to get into. Steve Essay has like the

1214
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,479
Speaker 7: full version of it, but basically they started evolving away

1215
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 7: from a theory where the absolute amount of money in

1216
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 7: the economy is what matters most, and towards theories where,

1217
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 7: for example, it's the amount of money relative to the

1218
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 7: goods that can be bought by it. So if you

1219
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 7: have a bunch of people spending money to buy stuff,

1220
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 7: but there's not enough stuff to meet that demand, then

1221
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 7: that will basically mean that there's like scarcity and shortages

1222
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 7: and things like that, and that will cost prices to

1223
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 7: go up. Although why they do, like the underlying microeconomics

1224
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 7: of why prices go up when they're shortages and stuff,

1225
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 7: this theory doesn't really address because it's a macro theory

1226
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 7: and it'll kind of like fall back on supply and

1227
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 7: demand stuff or various kind of weird hydraulic metaphors about

1228
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 7: like well, god, yeah, yeah, you know, it's really like like,

1229
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 7: you know, different people will have different versions of this

1230
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 7: that have totally different explanations of why it's happening, but

1231
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 7: they'll generally say, if you look at the economy as

1232
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 7: a whole, if the stuff that's being made is less

1233
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 7: than the orders being put in for it, then that

1234
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 7: costs inflation because you're just not producing enough stuff. And

1235
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 7: they call that demand pull because the poll of basically

1236
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 7: it's like demand pulling, you know, for stuff that isn't

1237
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,639
Speaker 7: being produced, so it's like okay, well that that causes

1238
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 7: price rises. There was a parallel development where they're trying

1239
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 7: to get away from the QTM another way, where some

1240
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 7: people were like, well, what's the most important single cost

1241
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 7: for businesses across the economy And they say labor obviously, right,

1242
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 7: like everyone needs to pay somebody to do wages to

1243
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,679
Speaker 7: keep the business going. So they just said, okay, well,

1244
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 7: if the cost of labor goes up across the economy,

1245
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 7: then that will cause prices to go up. So that's

1246
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 7: called cost push, which now theoretically this could be true

1247
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 7: of any cost. And this is kind of like where

1248
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 7: you know Steve's theory comes in is because it actually

1249
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 7: like starts talking realistically about what the cost of businesses are.

1250
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 7: But originally this was again a macro theory, so they

1251
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 7: picked the one cost that's common to all the things

1252
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 7: in the economy and they said that basically, inflation is

1253
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 7: the cost of workers agitating for higher pages, which leads

1254
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 7: wages to go up, which causes cost push inflation. The

1255
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 7: cost go up, so that pushes puts pressure down the

1256
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 7: supply chain because it's a it's a cost for everybody

1257
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 7: downstream of it, so then it causes it to the

1258
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,799
Speaker 7: prices to go up. Now, the problem with these theories

1259
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 7: is that like they're very like rigid. It's like it

1260
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 7: has one cause and it's also like, you know, and

1261
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 7: it's this one thing and it has to operate across

1262
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,680
Speaker 7: the entire economy, right, But that's not actually how our

1263
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 7: economy is put together. Because our economy is not this

1264
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 7: general equilibrium produced by the trading of individual agents who

1265
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 7: are buying cheap and selling deer to each other. That

1266
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:51,879
Speaker 7: whole universe doesn't really exist. The universe that we actually

1267
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 7: live in is one where businesses are not isolated. They're interdependent.

1268
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 7: Right Like the the you know, the people who collect sands,

1269
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 7: you know, from the earth and other minerals, feed into

1270
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 7: the factories that turn it into glass, which feeds into

1271
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 7: the construction industry that puts those glass well actually, no,

1272
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 7: sorry I missed a step there. You know, it feeds

1273
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 7: into the factories that turn that glass into windows, which

1274
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 7: then feeds into the construction industry, which puts them into

1275
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 7: buildings that then feeds into like real estate conglomerates that

1276
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 7: rent it, which then feeds into businesses and households that

1277
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 7: live there. Right Like, that's the entire supply chain, and

1278
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 7: all those businesses depend upon each other because they're each

1279
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 7: other's customers. So how much glass do they make in

1280
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 7: the in the glass factory. It depends on how much

1281
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 7: how many windows the window factories that are all their

1282
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 7: customers order. That's what determines how much they're going to make.

1283
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 7: You know, this whole picture of the world as supply

1284
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 7: chains is common sense to anybody who actually like works

1285
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 7: a job, especially if they're like in a management position

1286
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 7: where they have to maybe be dealing with some of

1287
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 7: the supplier relations stuff or customer relations stuff. Economists just

1288
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 7: don't talk about it. It's not really in their models

1289
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 7: because their models are developed from the ground up from

1290
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,560
Speaker 7: this kind of like everybody's just trading as individuals perspective.

1291
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,919
Speaker 7: And that's a great deal of the reason why Steve's

1292
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 7: theory is so powerful. Now, a lot of this supply

1293
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 7: chain picture that I'm painting, besides coming from the real world,

1294
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 7: it also came from a particular heterodox economist that I

1295
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 7: wrote a very long profile of, called Frederick S. Lee.

1296
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,600
Speaker 3: Before we get into Lee, we unfortunately do need to

1297
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 3: take an ad break because capitalism. But do you know

1298
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 3: what Frederick Lee would have hated? And it's this ad

1299
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,600
Speaker 3: break we're about to do right now, all right, and

1300
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:49,679
Speaker 3: we're back to talk about Frederick Lee, who was very

1301
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 3: cool and I'm very excited about Yeah.

1302
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 7: Well, unfortunately started a little wait, we're not going to

1303
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 7: talk a ton about him. The only really important thing

1304
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 7: so he was. He was a great guy. He was

1305
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 7: an anarcho syndicalist. He was a lifelong member of the IWW.

1306
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,759
Speaker 7: He actually helped recover Joe Hill's ashes from the federal

1307
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 7: government and properly bury them. That's not in Part one

1308
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 7: of my profile, which is published. It's in part two,

1309
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 7: which is coming up. But in addition to that, he

1310
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 7: was also a great economic theorist, and part of what

1311
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 7: he did is that he put together the bits and

1312
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 7: pieces of this alternative picture of the economy, where, for example,

1313
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 7: prices are not this thing that allocates resources automatically through

1314
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 7: supply and demand, and their price changes are telling us

1315
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 7: what to how much to produce and how much to consume,

1316
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 7: which is the kind of like mainstream neoclassical picture. But

1317
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 7: rather prices are a markup that businesses like set themselves.

1318
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 7: They're not receiving it from the market. They set a

1319
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 7: price markup over their total costs of production in order

1320
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 7: to get the money that they need to keep the

1321
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 7: lights on and stay in business. This all sounds very trivial,

1322
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 7: I know, but believe it or not, in economics, this

1323
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 7: is like a revolutionary idea. So well then it's like, okay, well,

1324
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 7: if that's the way that an individual company is, how

1325
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 7: are the companies linked together? He basically comes to he

1326
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 7: doesn't call it this, but to a supply chain view

1327
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 7: of the economy, especially in his last textbook, which tries

1328
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 7: to create a model of the economy as a whole,

1329
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 7: and he says that the entire economy is basically just

1330
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 7: a circuit of supply chains. It's all the businesses sort

1331
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 7: of linked up together, forming a closed circuit that loops

1332
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 7: back on itself. And that is the economy that we

1333
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 7: use to produce the goods and services that just keep

1334
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 7: society going day to day, week to week, year to year.

1335
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 7: So he Lee basically had all of that and that

1336
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,640
Speaker 7: was the main ingredient that we used. But it was

1337
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 7: Steve who then took that framework and used it to

1338
01:14:44,400 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 7: create a new theory of inflation, because if you have

1339
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 7: a world of the supply chains, then it becomes very

1340
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 7: obvious that if prices are going to rise all across

1341
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:57,560
Speaker 7: the economy, it's going to be because people's cost go

1342
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,759
Speaker 7: up so then the question becomes why how do people's

1343
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 7: costs go up? And the answer is almost always what

1344
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 7: Steve called his progenitor price increase. This this first guy

1345
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 7: who chooses to raise his prices if and only if

1346
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 7: that person is even only if that person is in

1347
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 7: the uh you know, in a position in the supply chamber,

1348
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 7: a bunch of people are downstream of them. And that

1349
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 7: tends to happen when, for example, an input that goes

1350
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 7: into the entire economy, like energy, suddenly goes up in

1351
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 7: price or becomes scarce, or it happens when a natural

1352
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 7: disaster causes disruptions in a couple of businesses that everybody

1353
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 7: else depends upon, or when there's an adverse shift in

1354
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,599
Speaker 7: the balance of payments, you know, the the Let's say

1355
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 7: that the peso you know starts becoming you know, versus

1356
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 7: the dollar. You know, the dollar becomes much more expensive,

1357
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 7: So imports become much more expensive. So any business that

1358
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 7: depends upon imports, you know, will suddenly will suddenly have

1359
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 7: their costs go up. These are the kinds of events

1360
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 7: that are like an external shock that leads to a

1361
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 7: rise in prices, and key nodes in the supply chain

1362
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 7: that because so many people are connected to them as customers,

1363
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 7: their costs become more expensive, and that's these costs increase

1364
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,839
Speaker 7: travel across particular supply chain. So you have to actually

1365
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 7: know how all the businesses are linked together so that

1366
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 7: you can identify what the origin of the stress was

1367
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,680
Speaker 7: and see which particular supply chain is traveling down. It's

1368
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 7: not this like this thing that has to do with

1369
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 7: a single factor across the whole economy or this or

1370
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 7: much less the amount of money that's being printed. The

1371
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 7: amount of money is almost like irrelevant in this situation basically.

1372
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 7: I mean, it maybe has relevance inasmuch as, like you know,

1373
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 7: if people have the amount of money in their pockets

1374
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 7: that they have, usually they might start purchasing more things

1375
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 7: than can be produced at this moment. But that's usually

1376
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 7: like like usually it balances out normal situations. The only

1377
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 7: reason why that would be true is because there was

1378
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 7: some kind of disruption upstream, so that what's normally produced

1379
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 7: isn't being produced, And so you always have to look

1380
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 7: at the particular supply chains and the kinds of stress

1381
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 7: that they might have. Did I did I communicate that roughly?

1382
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 2: Right?

1383
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1384
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a fantastic summary. I have like a

1385
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 4: few small notes just to add to it in the

1386
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,959
Speaker 4: in the sort of survey of existing theories of inflation

1387
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 4: that I did in the paper of the JMC, like

1388
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 4: very ably summaries for us, like specifically for the cost

1389
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 4: push guys. They I think they have a tendency to

1390
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 4: focus on like macrodynamic forces at work in the lens

1391
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:51,640
Speaker 4: of cost push, like partly because it is like it

1392
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 4: really it relies on high profile fights between labor unions

1393
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 4: and companies that the audience already kind of understands, and

1394
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 4: it makes a lot of sense that you would go

1395
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 4: to union fights in particular since they're like one of

1396
01:18:05,560 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 4: the big items that they typically fight over is cost

1397
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:12,479
Speaker 4: of living adjustments built into their wage increases. And so

1398
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 4: that's like an obvious like, Okay, if there is ever

1399
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 4: a time in which macrodemic forces would convene in to

1400
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 4: specifically to raise inflation, it would probably be fought over

1401
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:28,760
Speaker 4: like the cola adjustments, cost living adjustments, and like the

1402
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 4: that leaves so much of the story untold. Focusing on

1403
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 4: cola adjustments in these union fights leaves so much of

1404
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 4: the story untold because it's it's putting like, what's really

1405
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 4: this incredibly interdependent, micro based phenomenon onto the backs of

1406
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 4: like one union against one company fighting over one contract,

1407
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 4: and the way they make it work in like a

1408
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 4: lot a lot of the modern interpretations of cost push

1409
01:18:58,360 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 4: in this macrodynamic sense, the way they square, the way

1410
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:04,719
Speaker 4: they square how it gets from that fight to become

1411
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 4: a generalized inflationary episode, which is what people want to

1412
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 4: know about, Like they don't want to know about one well,

1413
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 4: they want to know about politically about a union fight,

1414
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 4: but in terms of the economics, they want to know

1415
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 4: about the inflationary episode. The way they square that is

1416
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,480
Speaker 4: that there's typically like in what they call an information

1417
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 4: diffusional component to this, it's where and that's a fancy

1418
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 4: way of saying people learn about the outcome of the

1419
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 4: fight and then replicate.

1420
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 7: It monkey see monkey doo.

1421
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, So one union fight or one or one company

1422
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:41,959
Speaker 4: backclash against a union fight, word gets out, it spreads,

1423
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 4: and it's all over the place. And that's really like

1424
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 4: when you look at the economic history of the data

1425
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 4: of inflationary episodes, although there are union fights going on,

1426
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 4: inflation is not springing up specifically from those fights in

1427
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:01,400
Speaker 4: the way that they're describing.

1428
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, one of the things you can

1429
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 3: tell this is obviously wrong is that they're just they're like,

1430
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 3: at no point in the US's history has there ever

1431
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 3: been enough percentage of the US population who are in

1432
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 3: unions for this to mix, this to actually work, Like,

1433
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 3: at no point even if you were to be really

1434
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 3: generous to them and only look at union density and

1435
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 3: like steel production union density and stuff that are like

1436
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 3: like an important part to the supply chain, Like, it's

1437
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 3: just not enough people, Like it can't it literally cannot

1438
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 3: be true that it is purely like a union cost

1439
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:33,759
Speaker 3: testment thing because they're just not enough people.

1440
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, So in these models, one of the important tasks

1441
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 4: that they've given themselves is to estimate the coefficient of

1442
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 4: information diffusional content from these union fights and like, so

1443
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 4: they will try to estimate that coefficient and thereby out

1444
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 4: build a model that outputs what price increase we can

1445
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 4: expect from like labor militancy if you're on the right wing,

1446
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 4: or company price gouging if you're on the left.

1447
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 7: Between Yeah, and this is this is really just like

1448
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 7: a perfect example. I think that Steve could have possibly

1449
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 7: put it better of the way that certain things that

1450
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 7: sound super sophisticated and intelligent, because you know, you can

1451
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 7: have like, you know, rather rather pink economists using this framework, right,

1452
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 7: like you know, social democratic ones, you know. But the

1453
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 7: thing is that, like it sounds really fancy to be

1454
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 7: talking about like the district what was it, the informational

1455
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:31,000
Speaker 7: informational communication coefficient or whatever like that sounds that sounds

1456
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 7: incredibly sophisticated, right, but like, actually what it is is

1457
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 7: that it's this kind of like Nutsoe story about how

1458
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 7: the reason why price rises happen across the economy is

1459
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 7: because people are picking union fights when like empirically and

1460
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 7: labor economists often do this, like you know, the ones

1461
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 7: who work for unions and stuff. It's like it is

1462
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 7: almost always the case that wages lagh cost of living,

1463
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 7: you know, like significantly, so cost of living goes up,

1464
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:02,719
Speaker 7: and that that's why people at some point, usually years later,

1465
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 7: will try to, if they're organized, agitate for for for

1466
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 7: higher wages to catch up with costs of living. So

1467
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 7: like the causality of it of cost push, you know,

1468
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:16,400
Speaker 7: probably is not labor action. Like that's a sort of

1469
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:21,720
Speaker 7: macro brain superstition. But funnily enough, this is kind of

1470
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 7: like like the devil is in the details. Because cost

1471
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 7: push as a general framework ought to probably be the

1472
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 7: basis for any reasonable theory of inflation, because the idea

1473
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 7: that it's costs going up, that then whatever prices now

1474
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 7: stream of those costs also go up, that is probably true.

1475
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 7: It's just that you have to look at particular supply

1476
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 7: chains and their costs and not just like their labor costs,

1477
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 7: but all the costs that they have and what cost

1478
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:51,920
Speaker 7: in particular went up that affects those particular supply chains.

1479
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:54,560
Speaker 7: Like that's but that's a different story, and it's a

1480
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 7: story that looks more like Steve's and also a story

1481
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:58,800
Speaker 7: that looks more like what's been going on in the

1482
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 7: world since twenty two.

1483
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, some of the critics when my paper and subsequent

1484
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 4: papers that we're we're on the same vein as this

1485
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 4: came out, is saying that we're just conflate, Like how

1486
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 4: are you guys really different than the cost push guys

1487
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 4: that you're critiquing for part of your paper, And it's

1488
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 4: really comes down to this kind of macro brain mecrodynamic

1489
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:25,240
Speaker 4: interpretation based on just wages or just like one union

1490
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 4: fight and then some like people see it and just

1491
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 4: copy it or something, and it's just a least so

1492
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 4: much of a story, I'm told, Yeah.

1493
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:33,640
Speaker 3: I mean, like I think, I think this is like

1494
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 3: the strength of looking at it through a supplush and

1495
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 3: it's like you can have it, you know, it has

1496
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 3: the what like for what for a normal person is

1497
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 3: a really simple idea, but for an economist is like

1498
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 3: unbelievably galaxy brain absolutely impossible to comprehend idea that something

1499
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 3: can have multiple causes at the same time and those

1500
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 3: multiple like you can't literally just reduce an entire like

1501
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 3: thing that's happening to exactly one driver, which you know,

1502
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 3: you would think would be a pretty like not that

1503
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:17,759
Speaker 3: controversial thing. But then economists can't tell the difference between

1504
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 3: a theory in which you can have multiple different things

1505
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 3: that are working on a supply chain and a theory

1506
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 3: where you can have like a thing.

1507
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah exactly.

1508
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1509
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 4: So like in in the COVID inflation that was that

1510
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 4: transpired just after the first of these pieces of ours

1511
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 4: came out, like it wasn't into full swing anyway in

1512
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 4: terms of in terms of being like a national phenomenon

1513
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 4: until just after like there, yes, there there there's a

1514
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 4: beginning of the labor militancy upsurge happily, but does like

1515
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 4: some people tried to light like the the people who

1516
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 4: were predicting no inflation, but then we started to see

1517
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 4: a little bit of it, started to attribute it to

1518
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:06,599
Speaker 4: this like macrodynamic cost push story eventually of like well,

1519
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 4: either like but you can you can tell that they

1520
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 4: are kind of hedging because there will be there's like

1521
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 4: a bifurcation of interpretations of it, like one is the

1522
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 4: like it really is, just you can tell it's not

1523
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:23,640
Speaker 4: that strong of a theory because there are two like

1524
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 4: diametrically opposed interpretations saying that like, oh, you'res this corporate

1525
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 4: price gouging or it's workers uh causing inflation themselves, which

1526
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 4: like if like James was saying, there's a lag typically

1527
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:42,680
Speaker 4: associated that workers are just trying to catch up with

1528
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 4: the prices that were being raised by firms in order

1529
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 4: to keep up with inflation they generate.

1530
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, if actually, if we could talk more, I was

1531
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 7: I was hoping that I could actually get into the

1532
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 7: COVID inflation and it's caused us a little bit. If

1533
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 7: that's okay with books, because not only because it's important

1534
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 7: in itself, but because I think this was actually one

1535
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:08,160
Speaker 7: of our first successes as a magazine. So we launched

1536
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 7: as a magazine in April I think it was of

1537
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two, but we've been working on the magazine

1538
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 7: from like twenty twenty on, so like there was twenty two,

1539
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 7: it was March of twenty twenty two. The that's right,

1540
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 7: but we'd been working on the magazine all through like

1541
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:35,600
Speaker 7: twenty twenty and twenty twenty one and twenty And the

1542
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 7: thing is that Steve's Peace was kind of like taking shape,

1543
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 7: and you know, we as editors but then also as

1544
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 7: people who are like helping with the research and talking

1545
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 7: things out internally and talking with other people outside the collective,

1546
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 7: we're all kind of like sort of imbibing it and

1547
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 7: thinking about it. When COVID hit right and one of

1548
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 7: the things that was rather magical, And there is written

1549
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 7: evidence of this, funnily enough, not as an article because

1550
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 7: the magazine didn't exist yet, but as a Twitter thread

1551
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 7: that I made actually on March third of twenty twenty one.

1552
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 7: And the reason I'm being so specific about dates is

1553
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 7: because of what happened where we and I was just

1554
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 7: summarizing basically conversations that we had been having inside the

1555
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 7: magazine internally. You know, that was when some of the

1556
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 7: news stories were starting to come out about shortages that

1557
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 7: were being caused by COVID. So most famously the chips

1558
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 7: shortage were semiconductors, which take like a year to make,

1559
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:36,840
Speaker 7: like from the moment that the order is put in

1560
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 7: to the moment when the thing is actually shipped, it's

1561
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 7: like a year. And if that process is disrupted, you

1562
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 7: have to start from the beginning. So the shutdowns in

1563
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:48,280
Speaker 7: China shut down semiconductor production, and actually I say China,

1564
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 7: but it was really China and Taiwan because both of

1565
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 7: those places have major chips companies, and that basically screwed

1566
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 7: up ships production for like as long as the shutdown happened,

1567
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:05,720
Speaker 7: and then after that at a lag of like a

1568
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:09,680
Speaker 7: year at least, and then that in turn caused a

1569
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 7: bunch of other shortages. The fact that we were all

1570
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:16,759
Speaker 7: inside meant that like there was a huge problem in food,

1571
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:21,720
Speaker 7: both in agriculture itself and in food processing factories, you know,

1572
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 7: where the raw products that we take out of the

1573
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,519
Speaker 7: earth are turned into the packaged you know, bits and

1574
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 7: bobs that you know, go to restaurants or to you know,

1575
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 7: food product factories and things like that, Like you couldn't

1576
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 7: get people to work there, or if they did, you know,

1577
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 7: and you tried to like pay them measure or whatever,

1578
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 7: they would get sick so they would stop production. So

1579
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:45,639
Speaker 7: there was a labor shortage in agriculture as well. Then

1580
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 7: there was a container shortage right in in shipping, where

1581
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 7: we weren't producing enough containers to actually ship stuff around

1582
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 7: the world. And if you can't do that, well, everything

1583
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 7: is made. Everything that somebody needs to make something is

1584
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:00,760
Speaker 7: often now made in another kind of or at least

1585
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,360
Speaker 7: another part of a country, you know, that's connected by trucks.

1586
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 7: So if there's no containers, how do you get stuff

1587
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:07,680
Speaker 7: from one place to the other? And the answers that

1588
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 7: you don't So they were just piling up like mountains

1589
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:14,120
Speaker 7: in the in the docks of various countries, including here

1590
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 7: on the West Coast and the East coast. So all

1591
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:21,400
Speaker 7: of these shortages caused by the pandemic. Basically we're hitting

1592
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 7: key sectors of the economy, right that everybody depends upon.

1593
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 7: So transportation, everybody needs it, you know, semiconductors, a whole

1594
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 7: bunch of manufacturing needs it. So that's that's why cars

1595
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 7: suddenly got super expensive, is because the chips in the

1596
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:39,679
Speaker 7: machines that make the cars got more expensive and scarce,

1597
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,040
Speaker 7: and not just expensive, it's scarce, like you just couldn't

1598
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 7: get them. And then food everybody depends on, and you know,

1599
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 7: like everybody buys groceries. Restaurants need it, so restaurant prices

1600
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 7: went up. So you can see how specific sectors having

1601
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 7: these problems traveled down specific supply chains to produce the

1602
01:29:58,040 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 7: cost increases that we all start and seeing. But here's

1603
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 7: the thing. All that stuff was happening from twenty twenty on.

1604
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:10,320
Speaker 7: I did this thread on March third of twenty twenty one.

1605
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:12,720
Speaker 7: But the thing is that at that point there was

1606
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 7: not yet inflation. We predicted that there was going to

1607
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,240
Speaker 7: be inflation, and there was a lot of people, like

1608
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:23,439
Speaker 7: including left wingers, including heterodox economists, who got really angry

1609
01:30:23,479 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 7: about this because for them, inflation fear mongering. You know,

1610
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:29,720
Speaker 7: this was in the context of the government printing out

1611
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 7: all the stimmy checks, right, so inflation fear mongering for

1612
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:35,719
Speaker 7: them is kind of like something that a right winger

1613
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 7: would do, you know, by saying the government's printing too

1614
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 7: much money, so there's going to be inflation, you know,

1615
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 7: quantity theory of money stuff, Milton Friedman stuff, the stuff

1616
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 7: that they had experienced in the turn to neoliberalism from

1617
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:49,000
Speaker 7: the seventies to the eighties. Right. I understand that fear.

1618
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 7: But the thing is, this wasn't fear mongering. These shortages

1619
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 7: for very clear reasons that were clear if you had

1620
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 7: the supply chain theory of inflation framework, which unfortunately we

1621
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:02,800
Speaker 7: did because we hadn't published it yet. Like you know,

1622
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 7: it was very clear that these shortages were going to

1623
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 7: cause cost increases in very well linked together, you know,

1624
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 7: nodes within supply chains that we're going to travel down

1625
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 7: those supply chains and basically be economy wide. So I

1626
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 7: said so because I had a hunch that it was

1627
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:21,680
Speaker 7: going to be true, and that it would be a

1628
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,760
Speaker 7: big deal if it was true, for you know, validating

1629
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 7: these discussions that we were having internally. So I said,

1630
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,840
Speaker 7: some predictions. One, there's going to be inflation in the

1631
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 7: next year or two, potentially lots. Two it will be

1632
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 7: caused by cost increases due to the chips shortage and

1633
01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:40,599
Speaker 7: COVID induced bottlenecks, and agriculture and manufacturing. Three, they'll try

1634
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 7: to blame the stimmy checks and attempt to implement austerity. Now,

1635
01:31:45,120 --> 01:31:47,559
Speaker 7: at the time of that first tweet, inflation was at

1636
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 7: two point six percent, which is like within normal bounds,

1637
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:55,559
Speaker 7: although slightly higher than have been before. By the end

1638
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 7: of that year, even actually, I think just a few

1639
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:01,680
Speaker 7: months later, it was at four point seven percent, and

1640
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty two it would peak at eight point

1641
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 7: seventy three percent, which was like the most inflation that

1642
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 7: we've seen since the Crisis of the seventies fifty years ago. Like,

1643
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:15,680
Speaker 7: so we you know, the first success that we had

1644
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:18,280
Speaker 7: as the magazine, before we even came out as a magazine,

1645
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 7: is that we successfully predicted the biggest inflationary crisis since

1646
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 7: the Crisis of the seventies, and not only predicted it,

1647
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 7: but predicted its specific causes. Because as the thread kind

1648
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:33,680
Speaker 7: of was continually updated over over the course of that

1649
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 7: next year, like you know, people started looking digging in

1650
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 7: and actually, like a lot of journalism was uncovering that

1651
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 7: precisely those bottlenecks were leading to cost increases, you know,

1652
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 7: the and there were other ones that were kind of

1653
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 7: added to it. So when the Ukraine War started in

1654
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:54,559
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two. That increased global inflation because Ukraine is

1655
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:57,559
Speaker 7: the world's single biggest and by a lot, supplier of wheat,

1656
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 7: which is a key staple in diets across the planet.

1657
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:04,240
Speaker 7: So the shortages that were created by the Ukraine War,

1658
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 7: by Russia's blockades and also just by bombing and you know,

1659
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 7: the war disrupting the labor market over there and all

1660
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 7: these other kinds of things that meant that there was

1661
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 7: less wheat being exported, which created bottlenecks in those supply chains,

1662
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 7: which led to the global increase in the price of wheat,

1663
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 7: which led to the global increase anything that uses wheat, bread,

1664
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 7: you know, and other food products. So beer, actually, well

1665
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 7: does I'm not wrong about that?

1666
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:34,240
Speaker 9: Right?

1667
01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:38,640
Speaker 7: Beer uses wheat? I should actually know that, Yeah, I

1668
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:42,639
Speaker 7: think I think so. I had to do a double

1669
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 7: take there. So anyway, the point is that this was

1670
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 7: like a really big deal because like there were a

1671
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 7: lot of people, including like in the Biden administration, who

1672
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 7: were denying that inflation was happening even as it was happening.

1673
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 7: And eventually the kind of shifted to a story where

1674
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:04,759
Speaker 7: it was like, well, it'll be transitional because only demand

1675
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,400
Speaker 7: pull inflation is real, right, this is clearly a cost

1676
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 7: push thing created by these shortages. But like demand pull is,

1677
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 7: the real form of inflation is when there's like too

1678
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:16,639
Speaker 7: much money in people's pockets. And that's not what's happening clearly,

1679
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,519
Speaker 7: so we'll be fine. You just have to wait, right,

1680
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 7: which is not Actually the attitude that you have to take.

1681
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:26,840
Speaker 7: Inflation is inflation and like you know, the the if

1682
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:29,960
Speaker 7: the causes or these disruptions and supply chains. You actually,

1683
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,280
Speaker 7: i mean, this is like the really edgy take. You

1684
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:36,919
Speaker 7: actually have to spend more money in order to unplug

1685
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:39,760
Speaker 7: these bottlenecks. You know, It's far from inflation being a

1686
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:41,719
Speaker 7: product of there being too much money in the economy.

1687
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:45,479
Speaker 7: You might actually need to do government spending too, for example,

1688
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 7: hire people you know, and and take extra steps for

1689
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:53,440
Speaker 7: precaution for their safety to unplug bottlenecks created by labor shortages.

1690
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 7: Or you might have to like you know, rapidly invest

1691
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:59,639
Speaker 7: you know, on a large scale, almost as if you're

1692
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:01,559
Speaker 7: in a war are in order to create a new

1693
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:05,640
Speaker 7: industry to like, you know, to to replace something like

1694
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 7: containers that that that you would normally import, you know,

1695
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 7: or something like that so like like these are these

1696
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 7: are the kinds of actions that a more muscular approach

1697
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 7: to the inflation would have would have been. But instead

1698
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:20,919
Speaker 7: they basically just waited for the supply chains to fix themselves,

1699
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:24,240
Speaker 7: even when multinational corporations and their boards of directors were

1700
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:28,639
Speaker 7: begging the government to actually intervene more. Uh, which is

1701
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:31,759
Speaker 7: insane with economic planning. You know, you would never expect

1702
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 7: to hear something like that, but it was in the

1703
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:36,560
Speaker 7: things like the pages of the Financial.

1704
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 3: Times, speaking of the Financial Times, we do we do

1705
01:35:38,560 --> 01:35:42,760
Speaker 3: need to take another ad break unfortunately. Yeah, do you

1706
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:46,759
Speaker 3: know what the Financial Times will not be doing buying

1707
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 3: ads on this show hasn't happened yet. Could happen, would

1708
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:53,640
Speaker 3: be very funny, but it has not happened yet. All right,

1709
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:57,599
Speaker 3: we're we are now back from ads. Yeah, I endeavored

1710
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 3: to have better ad pivots, but you know, you get

1711
01:36:01,280 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 3: what you get.

1712
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 4: Speaking of like what they could have done differently, like

1713
01:36:05,320 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 4: they there's a whole World War two playbook essentially that

1714
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 4: they just didn't chose, they're ignorant of or chose to

1715
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 4: ignore of, like a system of price controls, rationing and

1716
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:22,600
Speaker 4: rapid redeployment of resources, to unstuck the bottlenecks along and

1717
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:27,120
Speaker 4: across supply chains on the domestic side to support the warfront.

1718
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,040
Speaker 4: There's no war going on for us directly right now,

1719
01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 4: but it could it could have easily been replicated.

1720
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's something I think is really interesting because eventually,

1721
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 3: like as the inflationary crisis sort of went on, like

1722
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,360
Speaker 3: you did see a little bit of people trying stuff

1723
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:47,160
Speaker 3: like this, like you saw Germany, if I remembering by

1724
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:51,719
Speaker 3: Germany did these price controls on uh on, like natural

1725
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 3: gas prices and stuff. But that that that gets into

1726
01:36:55,600 --> 01:37:00,640
Speaker 3: another interesting thing is which is that So Yeah, I

1727
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 3: think we should get into a bit of this sort.

1728
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:02,599
Speaker 1: Of like.

1729
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 2: The I don't know how you describe it, the.

1730
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:14,640
Speaker 3: Mainstream adoption of like a version of y'all's theory that

1731
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 3: eventually started happening, that eventually started to push like some

1732
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 3: of this stuff, which, yeah, I guess we should introduce

1733
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:28,520
Speaker 3: another person who I don't know the relationship between exactly

1734
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:31,040
Speaker 3: what of your stuff she read is sort of unclear.

1735
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:33,599
Speaker 3: But one of the things that happens in this sort

1736
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:38,439
Speaker 3: of period is this this German economist named Isabella Weber

1737
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:46,520
Speaker 3: who wrote a like fine like mostly reasonable book about

1738
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,800
Speaker 3: like the economists behind the like the reform period in

1739
01:37:50,840 --> 01:37:57,880
Speaker 3: the eighties and China like started pushing well, actually, this

1740
01:37:57,920 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 3: is the thing where I'm sort of unclear at the timeline.

1741
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:03,400
Speaker 3: I started pushing the greedflation thing, although she had a

1742
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 3: different name for it. Yeah, I wasn't really talking about

1743
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:10,320
Speaker 3: that sort of whole thing, because that was really interesting,

1744
01:38:10,360 --> 01:38:14,960
Speaker 3: sort of like turn in the whole inflationary discourse inflation.

1745
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the prior so like prior to Waber's

1746
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 4: peace coming out in the earliest phases of COVID in

1747
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 4: twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, before there was any inflation,

1748
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:33,759
Speaker 4: there was a group of left wing like a fairly

1749
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 4: large swath of like left wing academics, progressives and liberals,

1750
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:42,799
Speaker 4: and also Biden, the Biden administration itself, saying that inflation

1751
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:48,599
Speaker 4: would be transitory and that we should it will if anything,

1752
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:51,120
Speaker 4: it would be moderates, but would come right back down

1753
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,080
Speaker 4: because like, supply chings are so much more nimble now

1754
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 4: than they were in like the seventies and eighties, and

1755
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 4: like liquidity sources are so much more plentiful, they have

1756
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 4: so many Like I'm probably giving them too much credit. Actually,

1757
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 4: I think they literally just were like.

1758
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, there was no because that I remember, like that would.

1759
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 4: Be basically have it because actually I'm filling the in

1760
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:14,160
Speaker 4: the blanks for them as I go. I think they

1761
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:16,400
Speaker 4: were just saying it's going to be transitory because it

1762
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 4: hasn't happened. Yeah, and like when it obviously in late

1763
01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:26,400
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two to to through the middle of twenty

1764
01:39:26,439 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 4: twenty three, when there's obvious evidence that that wasn't the case,

1765
01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:33,280
Speaker 4: then they like really didn't, like they went like hard

1766
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:36,880
Speaker 4: to starboard and said, like, Okay, the inflation that we see,

1767
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:40,200
Speaker 4: it's because of corporate greed and it just reduces to

1768
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 4: that now. Yeah, and so it's like a purely opportunistic

1769
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 4: thing between of like the largest corporations. And then you know,

1770
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:50,600
Speaker 4: maybe later people saw that and did monkey see monkey do,

1771
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 4: but it's it's because of.

1772
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:57,160
Speaker 7: Them, And to be fair, like the tricky thing here

1773
01:39:57,280 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 7: is that, like so I'll preface this by saying that, like,

1774
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 7: you know, and I think this is true Steve too,

1775
01:40:02,280 --> 01:40:04,840
Speaker 7: Like I really respect us of Bella Vapor's work when

1776
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 7: it's good, you know, and which is often you know,

1777
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:09,800
Speaker 7: Like I think that that she's a very solid headerdox

1778
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 7: economist who has some really important refutations of mainstream ideas,

1779
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:19,879
Speaker 7: and as an example of the good stuff. For example,

1780
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 7: she actually uh one of her one of the underrated

1781
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 7: aspects of a paper that kind of pushes what is

1782
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:30,240
Speaker 7: popularly known as the greenflation thing. The better part of

1783
01:40:30,280 --> 01:40:33,160
Speaker 7: that paper is that it actually creates a map of

1784
01:40:33,240 --> 01:40:37,960
Speaker 7: the current to today's supply chains in the US, like

1785
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:41,800
Speaker 7: you know, and and identifies the keynodes you know. And

1786
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:45,679
Speaker 7: she's a method called input output input output tables, which

1787
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:47,400
Speaker 7: Steve and I have written about and we're gonna write

1788
01:40:47,400 --> 01:40:49,160
Speaker 7: about it more on the magazine. This is like the

1789
01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:52,200
Speaker 7: main tool that you can use to do real economic planning.

1790
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:54,840
Speaker 3: JMC has been setting the input output tables for like

1791
01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 3: seven years now.

1792
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:00,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, I just scream about it.

1793
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I should make it clear. It's like the iotable

1794
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 4: stuff is amazing, and I think I think people just

1795
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:10,479
Speaker 4: latched onto kind of really not like hardly the most

1796
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 4: important part of your piece.

1797
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:16,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that that, by the way, I mean, I

1798
01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:19,519
Speaker 7: don't know if she read Steve's Peace or not, but

1799
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:22,280
Speaker 7: it is a huge vindication of Steve's piece, which came

1800
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:25,120
Speaker 7: out like a year and a half before you know

1801
01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 7: because because it's basically mapping the supply chains that Steve

1802
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:31,720
Speaker 7: talks about using io tables and saying, Okay, these are

1803
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:35,760
Speaker 7: the nodes. If prices go up here, everything downstream of

1804
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 7: them will go up, and those the and and that

1805
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:43,719
Speaker 7: basically hits most sectors of the economy, like and knowing

1806
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:46,400
Speaker 7: what those nodes are is like super important because then

1807
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 7: you can figure out how to protect them, you know,

1808
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 7: like that's that's actually like one of the key things

1809
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:54,759
Speaker 7: that you know, one wishes that that that that governments

1810
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:56,200
Speaker 7: were doing, it would be one of the few useful

1811
01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:58,720
Speaker 7: things that they could do in a situation like this, right,

1812
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:04,920
Speaker 7: But unfortunately there's another aspect of her work which is

1813
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 7: more and this also comes from heterodox theory, but it's

1814
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 7: just not good theory in my opinion. And it's this

1815
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:16,360
Speaker 7: whole deal with like, okay, inflation, with prices going up.

1816
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:20,160
Speaker 7: So why are the prices going up? Well, a lot

1817
01:42:20,240 --> 01:42:24,600
Speaker 7: of them are going up because corporate management sees that

1818
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 7: everybody's talking about inflation. Now, maybe their costs. They're not

1819
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:31,559
Speaker 7: in one of these sectors where upstream their suppliers are

1820
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 7: raising prices. They're actually getting the same prices for their

1821
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:39,920
Speaker 7: ingredients as always. But because everybody's talking about inflation, they're

1822
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:43,160
Speaker 7: expecting prices to go up, right, so why not just

1823
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:50,320
Speaker 7: raise prices, you know, like like the and so like.

1824
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 7: That basically ended up that basically ended up being a

1825
01:42:56,960 --> 01:42:59,840
Speaker 7: theory of like, well, a lot of the price rises

1826
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 7: that going up is because of corporate greed, and corporations

1827
01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 7: are always greedy. But a situation where people are talking

1828
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:09,559
Speaker 7: about inflation means that they can that they can basically

1829
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 7: do a price get away with a price rise that

1830
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:17,160
Speaker 7: they wouldn't be able to get away with normally. Now,

1831
01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 7: there might be situations like this. I'm not even denying

1832
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 7: that that's the case. Like there are clearly, you know,

1833
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 7: based on a couple of journalistic exposees some companies whose

1834
01:43:27,240 --> 01:43:29,680
Speaker 7: costs have not really gone up, but they're raising the

1835
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 7: prices opportunistically so that they can do higher payoffs for

1836
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:37,520
Speaker 7: the shareholders and upper management. However, as a primary explanation

1837
01:43:37,800 --> 01:43:42,160
Speaker 7: for why the inflation happened, as an argument for the

1838
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:45,519
Speaker 7: main cause of the inflation, and therefore for what the

1839
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 7: main solution should be, which is slapping on price controls

1840
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:52,280
Speaker 7: and saying no, you can't do this, I don't think

1841
01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:56,640
Speaker 7: that that's tenable because there are clearly biophysical stressors in

1842
01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:59,160
Speaker 7: at least the places that are experiencing them, that are

1843
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:01,960
Speaker 7: traveling down supply where if you slap price controls down,

1844
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:04,680
Speaker 7: that's not going to get you more chips that at

1845
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 7: least not by itself, and in itself, price control should

1846
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:09,920
Speaker 7: be part of the picture, but that's not, especially in

1847
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:13,240
Speaker 7: situations where there is corporate greed sort of driven price rises.

1848
01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 7: But that's just not an explanation for everything. And some

1849
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:20,040
Speaker 7: of Weber's followers, not not necessarily her, but some of

1850
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:23,120
Speaker 7: the people who are like promoting this perspective are doing

1851
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:27,599
Speaker 7: so again partly in order to avoid conversation, in my opinion,

1852
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 7: about these kinds of biophysical bottlenecks and how they might

1853
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:35,000
Speaker 7: be they might be undone, and it's and it's a

1854
01:44:35,080 --> 01:44:39,040
Speaker 7: huge issue. One thing to kind of like conclude is

1855
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 7: that like in you know, this, this whole thing that

1856
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:47,920
Speaker 7: we've been saying about the supply chain as disruptions to

1857
01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:51,360
Speaker 7: the supply chain as the cause of a progenitor and

1858
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:55,559
Speaker 7: price increased by people in the affected sectors, which in turn,

1859
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:58,320
Speaker 7: through their connections to a bunch of customers, leads to

1860
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:01,639
Speaker 7: price rises across at least second of the economy. That

1861
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:04,120
Speaker 7: whole story allowed us to kind of see all this.

1862
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 7: A lot of the inflation that's happened in the world

1863
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:10,200
Speaker 7: since twenty twenty, we saw it coming, and we saw

1864
01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:15,439
Speaker 7: specific causes coming. And now no less a capitalist institution

1865
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:20,640
Speaker 7: than the imf right has kind of been forced reluctantly,

1866
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:24,240
Speaker 7: I would say, in some ways to admit that, as

1867
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:31,240
Speaker 7: Christine Legard said recently, you know, energy played a significant role,

1868
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:35,320
Speaker 7: then food kicked in, and energy is now fading. You know.

1869
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:38,240
Speaker 7: Now they still want to make it about wages, right,

1870
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:40,360
Speaker 7: I mean, that's the thing that ends up happening in

1871
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:42,680
Speaker 7: a crisis like this, is that they do want to

1872
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:49,400
Speaker 7: blame wage increases. But it is quite clear that even

1873
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:53,760
Speaker 7: the authorities have needed to kind of admit that these specific,

1874
01:45:54,439 --> 01:46:00,479
Speaker 7: measurable biophysical crises have been the source, the main source

1875
01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:03,000
Speaker 7: of the inflation. And then a great deal of the

1876
01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:08,000
Speaker 7: of the battle has been over who's going to kind

1877
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,160
Speaker 7: of like who who's going to have to narrow their

1878
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:14,400
Speaker 7: ambitions for their goals as a result of it, capital

1879
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:16,760
Speaker 7: or labor. And this is where I think VAPOR is

1880
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:20,360
Speaker 7: on firmer ground, not as an explanation for the inflation.

1881
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:23,760
Speaker 7: But afterwards, and then after inflation is already kicked in,

1882
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:26,639
Speaker 7: who ends up having to quote unquote foot the bill,

1883
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:31,600
Speaker 7: right is there's now like less money coming in in

1884
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:36,280
Speaker 7: these companies. So do you give it to workers so

1885
01:46:36,320 --> 01:46:39,160
Speaker 7: that they can, you know, since their money buys them less,

1886
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:42,240
Speaker 7: you know, compared to rising costs of living, you give

1887
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:44,240
Speaker 7: them a little bit more so that they can like

1888
01:46:44,320 --> 01:46:46,720
Speaker 7: kind of like balance it out. Or do you give

1889
01:46:46,760 --> 01:46:50,559
Speaker 7: it to management? You know, Now, obviously if it's management

1890
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 7: making the decision about what to do with the company surplus,

1891
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 7: because we live in a capitalist economy, that's a dictatorship

1892
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:58,120
Speaker 7: with the big owners, guess what they're gonna say, you know,

1893
01:46:58,600 --> 01:47:02,599
Speaker 7: and now and now you have a therefore a class struggle,

1894
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,240
Speaker 7: the distributional conflict that some of the kind of traditional

1895
01:47:06,280 --> 01:47:09,759
Speaker 7: cost push theories always talk about between capital and labor

1896
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:14,599
Speaker 7: over what to do with these rising markups in firms. Now,

1897
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,960
Speaker 7: they would say that's why the inflation happened. I think

1898
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:20,439
Speaker 7: I would say, and I think Steve would be in

1899
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:24,640
Speaker 7: agreement with this, that it's what happens after inflation, an

1900
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:28,000
Speaker 7: inflationary crisis kicks in, and then there's a battle between

1901
01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:31,519
Speaker 7: capital and labor over who gets screwed as a result.

1902
01:47:31,640 --> 01:47:32,960
Speaker 7: I think that that's kind of the way that we

1903
01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:34,720
Speaker 7: should think about a lot of the labor struggles that

1904
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:37,320
Speaker 7: have taken place since COVID.

1905
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:40,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I also like to add that there's kind of

1906
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:44,880
Speaker 4: like a distinction that needs to be drawn between companies,

1907
01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:49,080
Speaker 4: typically small and medium sized ones within who exist within

1908
01:47:49,240 --> 01:47:52,320
Speaker 4: larger supply chains, who are sort of like doing what

1909
01:47:52,400 --> 01:48:01,800
Speaker 4: they must, versus large corporations, often multinational who there's documented

1910
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 4: evidence that yes, there's some opportunistic price price increases that

1911
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 4: they are administering at the same time. So there's a mixture,

1912
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:16,280
Speaker 4: i would say, bias towards the former group, those who

1913
01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:18,840
Speaker 4: have to do what they have to do in order

1914
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:21,839
Speaker 4: to socially provision themselves. But there's a mixture of them,

1915
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:24,920
Speaker 4: And so you have to look at like that, who

1916
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 4: are the price leaders and are they opportunistically raising prices

1917
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:34,320
Speaker 4: and are people copying that? Yes? Sometimes, but as far

1918
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,719
Speaker 4: as like the progenitor price increase that we keep talking about,

1919
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:41,880
Speaker 4: you know, in our pieces like that, very often like

1920
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:44,920
Speaker 4: and this is born out in the surveys, like when

1921
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:48,960
Speaker 4: they're asked like for their reasoning as to why they

1922
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:55,040
Speaker 4: raise prices. It was typically like for the for reasons

1923
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:59,160
Speaker 4: like that are quote unquote socially acceptable at least to say,

1924
01:48:59,200 --> 01:49:02,479
Speaker 4: And for the most part, they were just defending their margins,

1925
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:07,880
Speaker 4: like they they were at risk of going under right, Yeah,

1926
01:49:07,920 --> 01:49:09,960
Speaker 4: and so you have to you have to weigh there's

1927
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,760
Speaker 4: a dynamic, there's an interplay between those that group and

1928
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:17,080
Speaker 4: then the opportunistic group, and so it really doesn't like

1929
01:49:17,200 --> 01:49:21,040
Speaker 4: reduce neatly into the greed inflation sort of like vestardization

1930
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 4: of vapors. Otherwise, really excellent piece that goes through some

1931
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:27,960
Speaker 4: like interesting and out but analysis.

1932
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:31,519
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I think that like this is a really

1933
01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:33,680
Speaker 7: important thing for listeners because I think a lot of

1934
01:49:33,760 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 7: left wing listeners they if they ask what's inflation and

1935
01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:40,840
Speaker 7: a left wing economist tells them because of corporate greed,

1936
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 7: they'll be like yeah, but and and and they might

1937
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:48,000
Speaker 7: listen to us and be like, well, it looks like

1938
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:52,200
Speaker 7: it sounds like you're defending corporations, And I would argue, no,

1939
01:49:52,479 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 7: we're not. We're trying to understand the actual causes for things,

1940
01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:02,599
Speaker 7: and we think that actually help you because, for example,

1941
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 7: if a company, let's say that you're in a company

1942
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:10,240
Speaker 7: that is part of this wave of unionizations where you know,

1943
01:50:10,280 --> 01:50:12,240
Speaker 7: let's say you're a Starbucks worker and people want to

1944
01:50:12,240 --> 01:50:14,679
Speaker 7: start up a Starbucks union. Maybe one of the ways

1945
01:50:14,680 --> 01:50:17,880
Speaker 7: that management is trying to kind of like screw over

1946
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:22,320
Speaker 7: your union is to tell people who are on the fence, well, like,

1947
01:50:22,479 --> 01:50:25,200
Speaker 7: the reason why there's so much inflation is because of

1948
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:28,519
Speaker 7: these unions, like we we have to all stick together,

1949
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:31,280
Speaker 7: and you know, the company's got your best interests at heart,

1950
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:34,320
Speaker 7: so you like, don't join this union that's going to

1951
01:50:34,360 --> 01:50:36,680
Speaker 7: be pushing for for wages that are ultimately just going

1952
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:38,880
Speaker 7: to get eaten up by inflation. Like like, let let

1953
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:42,960
Speaker 7: let management figure out what'll what's best, because otherwise you'll

1954
01:50:42,960 --> 01:50:46,280
Speaker 7: just end up screwing up the whole economy. And which

1955
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:49,040
Speaker 7: is not unheard of. You know, it might be something

1956
01:50:49,080 --> 01:50:52,040
Speaker 7: they'll fall back on the negotiations and their anti union

1957
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:54,760
Speaker 7: propaganda if you know that the actual cause of the

1958
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:58,240
Speaker 7: inflation has to do with disrupted supply chains and that

1959
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 7: really the question is who's going to be screwed over

1960
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 7: and who's not. Within the company, you can go back

1961
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:08,360
Speaker 7: and say, hey, wages are always chasing. Cost of living increases,

1962
01:51:08,400 --> 01:51:11,160
Speaker 7: the cost of living increases happened before the big unionization

1963
01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:13,559
Speaker 7: wave kicked off, and we can tell that it's specific

1964
01:51:13,640 --> 01:51:17,479
Speaker 7: causes in logistics, and its specific causes in chips, and

1965
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 7: specific causes in agriculture that are causing the price of this,

1966
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:22,120
Speaker 7: that and the other thing. You can even map out

1967
01:51:22,160 --> 01:51:24,920
Speaker 7: your company's supply chain and maybe point out certain cost

1968
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:27,320
Speaker 7: increases that caused it, and you can say, okay, so

1969
01:51:27,320 --> 01:51:29,000
Speaker 7: we're going to have to raise our prices. But where's

1970
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:30,840
Speaker 7: that money going to go? Not all of us should

1971
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:32,519
Speaker 7: go to management. Some of this should go to us.

1972
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:35,840
Speaker 7: So this is what a materialist understanding of how the

1973
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:39,040
Speaker 7: actual causes of the thing worked out can help you

1974
01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:42,640
Speaker 7: in organizing your workplace and in pushing back against the

1975
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:44,479
Speaker 7: kinds of things that your boss might try to tell you.

1976
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:48,240
Speaker 7: So that's what I would say to somebody who's like, oh, well,

1977
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:52,599
Speaker 7: you're just defending corporations. No, I'm absolutely not. But I

1978
01:51:52,640 --> 01:51:55,479
Speaker 7: don't think that we can actually have power, we can

1979
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:58,280
Speaker 7: actually kind of like take direct actions that really matter

1980
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:00,559
Speaker 7: because they're actually going to make life better for us

1981
01:52:00,560 --> 01:52:03,559
Speaker 7: and our friends and our loved ones. Like, I don't

1982
01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:05,240
Speaker 7: think that we can actually do that unless we understand

1983
01:52:05,240 --> 01:52:07,880
Speaker 7: how the world works, and sometimes the world works in

1984
01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:10,679
Speaker 7: a way that doesn't necessarily look like we would most

1985
01:52:10,720 --> 01:52:14,800
Speaker 7: expect it to or most wish it to. But nevertheless,

1986
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:16,439
Speaker 7: you have to kind of see how it works so

1987
01:52:16,439 --> 01:52:18,280
Speaker 7: that you can then figure out what's the best intervention

1988
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:21,400
Speaker 7: that I can make into it, given where I'm at,

1989
01:52:21,439 --> 01:52:24,920
Speaker 7: the institutions that I work through, the coalitions that I

1990
01:52:24,920 --> 01:52:26,639
Speaker 7: can put together, and that kind of thing.

1991
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:29,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think this is this is a kind

1992
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:33,280
Speaker 3: of like left field, like take on this too, but

1993
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:36,000
Speaker 3: like there are lots of sort of you know, if

1994
01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:40,640
Speaker 3: you go through like an economic price history or like

1995
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:43,800
Speaker 3: an economic history of like the socialist period in China, right,

1996
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,840
Speaker 3: like you will find them having to deal with like

1997
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:49,280
Speaker 3: basically exactly the same ship where they have these like

1998
01:52:49,320 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 3: massive inflationary spikes that have to do with like basically

1999
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:56,400
Speaker 3: these I mean for them, it was less supply chain

2000
01:52:56,439 --> 01:52:58,920
Speaker 3: bottle like supply chain breakdowns is like you know, they'd

2001
01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:00,719
Speaker 3: get the supply chain bottle now because they just didn't

2002
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:03,280
Speaker 3: have way through them, and like people fucking that up,

2003
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:07,519
Speaker 3: Like there was a like there is a decent argument

2004
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 3: that like that's part of what caused the Great Leap

2005
01:53:09,720 --> 01:53:13,120
Speaker 3: Forward was people not fucking understanding that, like not quite

2006
01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:15,880
Speaker 3: understanding how to deal with their supply chain stuff and

2007
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:20,880
Speaker 3: seeing this kind of like inflation like issue kicking in

2008
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,880
Speaker 3: and being like fuck it were to do something that's

2009
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:28,439
Speaker 3: completely nuts, and you know, that went like about as

2010
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:31,720
Speaker 3: badly as like any attempt anyone has ever tried to do,

2011
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:35,800
Speaker 3: like to fix any problem has ever gone. And the

2012
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:38,160
Speaker 3: larger the number of people who actually understand how this

2013
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:41,000
Speaker 3: stuff works, even in sort of like you know, even

2014
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:43,360
Speaker 3: even on a kind of like not enormously grandeur level,

2015
01:53:43,439 --> 01:53:46,519
Speaker 3: the more likely you are to have someone who's in

2016
01:53:46,960 --> 01:53:50,120
Speaker 3: and it has the ability to make a decision where

2017
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:55,280
Speaker 3: this stuff matters and you know it and like yeah,

2018
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:56,960
Speaker 3: you could be like, oh well, like the odds that

2019
01:53:56,960 --> 01:53:58,360
Speaker 3: we're ever gonna be in a place for this matters

2020
01:53:58,439 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 3: is like direct, you're gonna be the one making the

2021
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:01,519
Speaker 3: decisons pretty low.

2022
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:02,639
Speaker 2: But like, you know, it's not zero.

2023
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 3: It's happened to people before, and them not knowing about

2024
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:09,559
Speaker 3: it was like a really apocable disaster, and we can

2025
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 3: you know, avoid doing stuff like that by having a

2026
01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:17,000
Speaker 3: better understanding of like how our supply chains function and

2027
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,439
Speaker 3: what effect that has on sort of economic distribution and

2028
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:23,640
Speaker 3: stuff like that. So yeah, that's that's one of my

2029
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:26,200
Speaker 3: two pitches, And my other pitch on this is, I

2030
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:35,160
Speaker 3: I don't know how. It's hard to actually gauge the

2031
01:54:35,240 --> 01:54:38,640
Speaker 3: influence of discourse on policy makers, especially when they're as

2032
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:41,960
Speaker 3: opaque as like the chairman of the Federal Reserve, but

2033
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:45,920
Speaker 3: it is worth noting that we didn't get a like

2034
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:51,920
Speaker 3: Vulgar style fifteen percent like interest rate increase, And I

2035
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:54,560
Speaker 3: think there's a non zero argument the fact that there

2036
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:58,120
Speaker 3: were other alternative explanations to inflation like around and that

2037
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:00,720
Speaker 3: enough people were pushing them, like is a reason why

2038
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:03,960
Speaker 3: we didn't get one of these, like a Vulcar style thing,

2039
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:06,200
Speaker 3: which would have pushed employment to like unemployment to like

2040
01:55:06,200 --> 01:55:10,160
Speaker 3: twenty five percent, destroy the entire global economy. And that,

2041
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 3: you know, like we could count that as a fucking

2042
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:15,560
Speaker 3: w because as as bad as things are right now,

2043
01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 3: like the world, the world where Jerome Powell pulls the

2044
01:55:19,160 --> 01:55:24,000
Speaker 3: trigger and hits the like hey, I'm now a monitorist,

2045
01:55:24,080 --> 01:55:26,640
Speaker 3: like I'm gonna I'm gonna decrease the money supply button

2046
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:28,840
Speaker 3: and Jack's the interest wrapped like a dew percent, Like

2047
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:32,520
Speaker 3: that world is so much worse than this one. It

2048
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:35,200
Speaker 3: is it is difficult to imagine.

2049
01:55:37,280 --> 01:55:39,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we dodged a bullet of like twelve

2050
01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:43,600
Speaker 4: percent federal funds rate this time. Yeah, we've surpassed Monashers

2051
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:46,440
Speaker 4: and to an extent anyway, there's they're still doing some

2052
01:55:46,560 --> 01:55:53,000
Speaker 4: quantitative tightening. Yeah, they but uh, I don't know, at

2053
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:55,440
Speaker 4: least as like a mortgage industry professional. I'm kind of

2054
01:55:55,440 --> 01:56:00,240
Speaker 4: hoping he keeps it under six for the federal funds, right.

2055
01:56:02,080 --> 01:56:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see what happens there.

2056
01:56:03,320 --> 01:56:06,080
Speaker 3: But it hasn't been We haven't gotten the apocalyptic reaction

2057
01:56:06,160 --> 01:56:10,400
Speaker 3: that we very very easily could have, like to the

2058
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:13,640
Speaker 3: extent that, like, I'm pretty sure if this, if this

2059
01:56:13,640 --> 01:56:16,839
Speaker 3: had happened under Obama, we'd be in like a recession

2060
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:18,400
Speaker 3: that would have made two thousand and eight look like

2061
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:19,320
Speaker 3: a joke right now.

2062
01:56:19,960 --> 01:56:23,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, I.

2063
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:27,800
Speaker 7: I think that there's a lot more to discuss about

2064
01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:30,680
Speaker 7: it because and it seems like we're gonna probably have

2065
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 7: a part two to this at some point. Yeah, So

2066
01:56:32,840 --> 01:56:35,760
Speaker 7: we can probably get into it there because we have

2067
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:38,120
Speaker 7: actually an essay that we published about interest rates which

2068
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:41,800
Speaker 7: hadn't even bigger influence than this, Yeah, than these early

2069
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:45,520
Speaker 7: essays that we're talking about. But but you know, like

2070
01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:49,360
Speaker 7: at the end of the day, I think that what's important,

2071
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:52,400
Speaker 7: what's most important about what we've discussed, is this for me,

2072
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:59,919
Speaker 7: like having this model which we developed, you know obviously,

2073
01:57:00,080 --> 01:57:05,040
Speaker 7: like steve've developed it out of as an expansion of

2074
01:57:05,120 --> 01:57:07,680
Speaker 7: the logic of Fred Lee's work. And fred Lee was

2075
01:57:07,720 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 7: not actually particularly original. He just synthesized a whole bunch

2076
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:14,440
Speaker 7: of stuff that existed previously, like these pricing studies by

2077
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:17,280
Speaker 7: Gardner Means in the thirties and pricing studies over the

2078
01:57:17,320 --> 01:57:21,080
Speaker 7: next hundred years from all sorts of different people, you know,

2079
01:57:21,120 --> 01:57:23,720
Speaker 7: into his post Kanteene price theory and stuff like that,

2080
01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:30,960
Speaker 7: the cost plus markup stuff. But like like having a

2081
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:34,440
Speaker 7: theory that's developed by looking at the world and building

2082
01:57:34,440 --> 01:57:37,160
Speaker 7: your abstractions up out of things that you can see,

2083
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:41,000
Speaker 7: particularly in a field like economics that's so complex that

2084
01:57:41,040 --> 01:57:43,880
Speaker 7: you have to kind of start with like observable relations

2085
01:57:43,880 --> 01:57:48,520
Speaker 7: between actual institutions that exist in the world that empowered us,

2086
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:52,080
Speaker 7: you know, that allowed us who really were just like

2087
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:58,600
Speaker 7: four weirdos started a magazine right like four anarchistish weirdos, But.

2088
01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:01,720
Speaker 12: That allowed us to see earlier than like most people,

2089
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:04,360
Speaker 12: including a lot of like credential professionals, what was going

2090
01:58:04,440 --> 01:58:07,680
Speaker 12: to happen in the future, at least the near future,

2091
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:10,280
Speaker 12: like you know, the next like like like two to

2092
01:58:10,360 --> 01:58:12,680
Speaker 12: five years from that vantage point, which was like twenty

2093
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:17,920
Speaker 12: twenty one. That is really incredible, And I'm not saying

2094
01:58:17,960 --> 01:58:21,640
Speaker 12: that to brag, like, although it is certainly something that

2095
01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:24,600
Speaker 12: I that I take a sick pleasure in. It's also

2096
01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:28,760
Speaker 12: informative because think about all the things about which we

2097
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:33,840
Speaker 12: don't have that concrete material picture. The question of how

2098
01:58:33,840 --> 01:58:36,800
Speaker 12: we're going to get fossil fuels out of agricultural production

2099
01:58:37,400 --> 01:58:42,640
Speaker 12: without causing famines, right, the question of what do you

2100
01:58:42,680 --> 01:58:45,240
Speaker 12: do now that we have the Internet, Like how do

2101
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:45,920
Speaker 12: you govern that?

2102
01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:49,320
Speaker 7: Because it's clearly not working under these giant vertically integrated

2103
01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:51,960
Speaker 7: media Oligo believes with the platforms, but it's also not

2104
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:53,520
Speaker 7: going to work if we put it under the government,

2105
01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:55,640
Speaker 7: So what the hell do we do about it? You know?

2106
01:58:55,880 --> 01:58:59,200
Speaker 7: It's it's like there's all these key questions that we

2107
01:58:59,320 --> 01:59:02,160
Speaker 7: just don't have have even like working models like of

2108
01:59:02,160 --> 01:59:04,800
Speaker 7: like what the world is even like right now, much

2109
01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:09,800
Speaker 7: less like you know, what could plausibly be done with it?

2110
01:59:09,920 --> 01:59:13,640
Speaker 7: Right to make it a better place. And obviously, like

2111
01:59:13,720 --> 01:59:15,680
Speaker 7: you know, some of this sounds like stuff that the

2112
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:17,440
Speaker 7: government should do, but a lot of this is actually

2113
01:59:17,440 --> 01:59:19,840
Speaker 7: stuff that social movements need. If you think the rent

2114
01:59:19,880 --> 01:59:22,040
Speaker 7: is too damn high in your city, and you organize

2115
01:59:22,040 --> 01:59:24,720
Speaker 7: a tenancy union that has real political muscle and you

2116
01:59:24,760 --> 01:59:27,440
Speaker 7: actually like have the ability to do stoppages or other

2117
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:31,280
Speaker 7: actions that can really like bully the local city government. Okay,

2118
01:59:31,600 --> 01:59:34,240
Speaker 7: but what do you ask for, what do you demand

2119
01:59:34,680 --> 01:59:36,680
Speaker 7: or what do you try to put into place yourself

2120
01:59:36,760 --> 01:59:39,880
Speaker 7: using your own money? Like, what do you do if

2121
01:59:39,880 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 7: the rent is too damn high? How do you get

2122
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:43,360
Speaker 7: it lower? And it's like, oh, well, there shouldn't be rent,

2123
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:45,840
Speaker 7: we should abolish it, Okay, how do you do that?

2124
01:59:46,400 --> 01:59:49,800
Speaker 7: You know, you need models of the world, and that's

2125
01:59:49,800 --> 01:59:52,160
Speaker 7: what we've been trying to kind of build in the

2126
01:59:52,200 --> 01:59:55,680
Speaker 7: magazine more than anything else, especially in our ECON coverage.

2127
01:59:56,760 --> 02:00:00,200
Speaker 7: So there's a lot more that happened after this. We'll

2128
02:00:00,200 --> 02:00:02,960
Speaker 7: probably have a part two, but I just to wrap

2129
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:04,880
Speaker 7: up the story up to then. So we did launch

2130
02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:07,800
Speaker 7: the magazine, we did put out Steve's essay, but then

2131
02:00:08,440 --> 02:00:11,000
Speaker 7: a really remarkable thing happened, which is that we started getting,

2132
02:00:11,040 --> 02:00:13,160
Speaker 7: like all magazines do, people who came in into the

2133
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:17,760
Speaker 7: slush pile who were inspired by Steve's work, and we're like,

2134
02:00:18,040 --> 02:00:21,280
Speaker 7: this makes the most sense of anything that I've heard,

2135
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:24,160
Speaker 7: and I want to build on it too. So we

2136
02:00:24,160 --> 02:00:26,920
Speaker 7: started publishing other essays that we're kind of building on

2137
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:29,880
Speaker 7: the research program that Steve kind of got us started on.

2138
02:00:30,280 --> 02:00:34,640
Speaker 7: And although our sort of influence was difficult to calculate

2139
02:00:34,720 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 7: in terms of, like, you know, how much we influenced

2140
02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:39,600
Speaker 7: the discussion, you know, in these early stages before the

2141
02:00:39,600 --> 02:00:43,800
Speaker 7: magazine was even up and running. Afterwards, after we kind

2142
02:00:43,800 --> 02:00:46,280
Speaker 7: of publish the people that I'm talking about, some of

2143
02:00:46,280 --> 02:00:49,560
Speaker 7: those pieces have actually definitely influenced the conversation in really

2144
02:00:49,560 --> 02:00:51,160
Speaker 7: exciting ways, and I think that we can talk about

2145
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:52,080
Speaker 7: some of that next time.

2146
02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:55,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that will be at some point in the future.

2147
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:57,520
Speaker 3: I don't all I'm going up put down a definitive

2148
02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:01,320
Speaker 3: date when it happens, because I don't know the world

2149
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:06,839
Speaker 3: is chaos and this. Yeah, but however, Comma, this story

2150
02:01:06,880 --> 02:01:10,840
Speaker 3: will continue in part two dot dot dot dot dot Yeah,

2151
02:01:10,920 --> 02:01:14,360
Speaker 3: So Steve Jamc, thank you both so much for joining me.

2152
02:01:14,680 --> 02:01:18,600
Speaker 3: And yeah, do you have where where can people go

2153
02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:20,880
Speaker 3: to find the magazine and you two if they want

2154
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:21,360
Speaker 3: to find you.

2155
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:26,840
Speaker 4: Oh, you can go to Strangemagers dot coop. That's our

2156
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:30,560
Speaker 4: main website. If you want to subscribe, we have digital

2157
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:34,840
Speaker 4: subscriptions starting at five dollars and Prince monthly is seven

2158
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:37,480
Speaker 4: ninety nine. There are also annual subscriptions too.

2159
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:41,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, and please do consider subscribing or donating. You can

2160
02:01:41,880 --> 02:01:44,640
Speaker 7: actually donate any amount of money to us. We're not

2161
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:47,240
Speaker 7: a nonprofit, so it's not tax deductible, but it would

2162
02:01:47,280 --> 02:01:51,200
Speaker 7: be a really helpful donation because any dollar that we

2163
02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:54,080
Speaker 7: get that doesn't go to our capitalist overlords, you know,

2164
02:01:54,200 --> 02:01:55,800
Speaker 7: for the services that we have to use to keep

2165
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:58,520
Speaker 7: the magazine going, all of that goes right now to

2166
02:01:58,520 --> 02:02:01,080
Speaker 7: our writers. And we try to pay writers above market

2167
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:05,560
Speaker 7: rate for magazines of our size, and you know, to

2168
02:02:05,600 --> 02:02:08,600
Speaker 7: do that is very difficult, you know, we need we

2169
02:02:08,680 --> 02:02:11,800
Speaker 7: need to So if you want to support worker controlled

2170
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:16,520
Speaker 7: media production that's financially independent. We don't have any big foundations,

2171
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:20,080
Speaker 7: you know, like telling us what to write or things

2172
02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:23,360
Speaker 7: like that. It's all like basically small donations and subscriptions,

2173
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:25,680
Speaker 7: like you know, if you want to keep that kind

2174
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:28,400
Speaker 7: of media alive and keep this kind of economic analysis

2175
02:02:28,400 --> 02:02:33,640
Speaker 7: alive along with our cultural philosophy, philosophical, historical, anthropological, literary stuff.

2176
02:02:35,120 --> 02:02:38,640
Speaker 7: Then then please consider it because we could really use

2177
02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:39,200
Speaker 7: the support.

2178
02:02:39,760 --> 02:02:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so go do that. Yeah, and go read some

2179
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:46,360
Speaker 3: of the some of the work that you all have

2180
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:50,360
Speaker 3: done on inflation, because it's really good. And yeah, this

2181
02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:51,360
Speaker 3: is prediculate apple.

2182
02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:51,680
Speaker 7: Here.

2183
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:56,440
Speaker 3: You can find us in the usual places. And yes,

2184
02:02:56,560 --> 02:02:59,440
Speaker 3: go go, go into the world and cause mischief.

2185
02:03:16,440 --> 02:03:19,320
Speaker 8: This summer has been a critical junction in the fight

2186
02:03:19,400 --> 02:03:23,400
Speaker 8: against Copp City, the Atlanta Police Foundation's massive proposed training

2187
02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:27,440
Speaker 8: facility Indicab County, which is slated to begin construction later

2188
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:31,440
Speaker 8: this very month. The last week of action in March

2189
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:34,720
Speaker 8: of twenty twenty three drew in over a thousand people

2190
02:03:34,760 --> 02:03:38,400
Speaker 8: against Copp City and saw hundreds of force defenders attack

2191
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:42,360
Speaker 8: in mass the construction equipment and police infrastructure stored on

2192
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:46,560
Speaker 8: the site in a pretty successful action. The police repression

2193
02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:49,919
Speaker 8: came down hard, but the militancy of the force defenders

2194
02:03:50,000 --> 02:03:53,760
Speaker 8: left a pretty impressionable mark. Later that month, to Cab

2195
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:58,839
Speaker 8: County closed and barricaded in Trenchment Creek Park citing public

2196
02:03:58,880 --> 02:04:03,480
Speaker 8: safety concerns, and allegedly found booby traps police did an

2197
02:04:03,520 --> 02:04:07,280
Speaker 8: exhaustive sweep of the forest and established a relatively firm

2198
02:04:07,360 --> 02:04:11,240
Speaker 8: control of the territory. After a year and a half

2199
02:04:11,280 --> 02:04:14,280
Speaker 8: of there being a nearly continuous presence in the Mulani

2200
02:04:14,600 --> 02:04:18,680
Speaker 8: by forest defenders, now the police began a forest occupation

2201
02:04:18,880 --> 02:04:22,360
Speaker 8: of their own. During the month that followed, the Atlanta

2202
02:04:22,360 --> 02:04:26,480
Speaker 8: Police Foundation, or the APF, rushed to clear cut around

2203
02:04:26,600 --> 02:04:30,280
Speaker 8: ninety acres of the Mulani Forest, seemingly in a ploy

2204
02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:33,480
Speaker 8: to show investors and the city that they are committed

2205
02:04:33,520 --> 02:04:36,480
Speaker 8: to the project and to crush the spirits of those

2206
02:04:36,520 --> 02:04:40,440
Speaker 8: who spent years opposing the facility and defending the forest.

2207
02:04:41,560 --> 02:04:44,760
Speaker 8: People then set their sights on the Atlanta's City Council,

2208
02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:48,280
Speaker 8: who in early June was to vote on whether or

2209
02:04:48,360 --> 02:04:53,000
Speaker 8: not to provide taxpayer funding for the APF's project. Over

2210
02:04:53,120 --> 02:04:57,200
Speaker 8: twenty three hours of public comment across multiple days, almost

2211
02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:01,880
Speaker 8: universally against copp City, culminated at the June fifth City

2212
02:05:01,880 --> 02:05:04,840
Speaker 8: Council meeting, which lasted into the early hours of the

2213
02:05:04,880 --> 02:05:09,160
Speaker 8: next morning. Despite the record breaking turnout opposing the facility,

2214
02:05:09,640 --> 02:05:12,760
Speaker 8: in the early morning of Tuesday, June sixth, the Atlanta

2215
02:05:12,840 --> 02:05:16,560
Speaker 8: City Council voted eleven to four in favor of the

2216
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:20,480
Speaker 8: sixty seven million dollar funding package to build cop City.

2217
02:05:21,280 --> 02:05:24,160
Speaker 8: The next day, a group of community organizers announced a

2218
02:05:24,200 --> 02:05:28,120
Speaker 8: referendum campaign to collect tens of thousands of petition signatures

2219
02:05:28,280 --> 02:05:31,880
Speaker 8: from Atlanta voters to put the cop City land lease

2220
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:36,200
Speaker 8: on the upcoming ballot. City council approving public funds for

2221
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:41,600
Speaker 8: cop City was certainly disappointing, but not quite unexpected, because

2222
02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:44,600
Speaker 8: another Week of action to stop cop City was already

2223
02:05:44,600 --> 02:05:49,240
Speaker 8: planned for later that same month. This is it could

2224
02:05:49,280 --> 02:05:53,640
Speaker 8: happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. In this three part series,

2225
02:05:53,680 --> 02:05:56,320
Speaker 8: I'll be talking about what's been happening in Atlanta this

2226
02:05:56,440 --> 02:05:59,600
Speaker 8: summer to stop cop City. If you want to hear

2227
02:05:59,640 --> 02:06:02,600
Speaker 8: more about the background of this movement. In the month

2228
02:06:02,640 --> 02:06:04,960
Speaker 8: of May, we put out a five part series on

2229
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:08,000
Speaker 8: the Week of Action from that spring, along with the

2230
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:10,920
Speaker 8: few other previous Defend the Forest and Stop Cup City

2231
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:13,720
Speaker 8: mini series published over the course of the last year

2232
02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:17,160
Speaker 8: and a half. With much of the forest already destroyed

2233
02:06:17,240 --> 02:06:21,080
Speaker 8: and no easy access to Entrenchment Creek Park, this Week

2234
02:06:21,080 --> 02:06:24,200
Speaker 8: of Action in June was set to be very unlike

2235
02:06:24,280 --> 02:06:27,640
Speaker 8: any that had come before. The kickoff rally was to

2236
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:31,080
Speaker 8: begin on Saturday, June twenty fourth, at Brownwood Park in

2237
02:06:31,200 --> 02:06:34,120
Speaker 8: East Atlanta. I made my way there and met up

2238
02:06:34,160 --> 02:06:37,800
Speaker 8: with Matt from the Atlantic Community Press Collective. My first

2239
02:06:37,800 --> 02:06:40,200
Speaker 8: feeling walking in is like it felt very society of

2240
02:06:40,200 --> 02:06:43,640
Speaker 8: the spectacle in terms of like the ratio of cameras

2241
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:46,200
Speaker 8: to participants was the most extreme that I've really ever

2242
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:48,320
Speaker 8: ever seen for like, you know, a week of action,

2243
02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:50,320
Speaker 8: like there was there was an outside of like a

2244
02:06:50,360 --> 02:06:53,560
Speaker 8: press conference, yeah, and like it felt like there was

2245
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:58,120
Speaker 8: so many just cameras looming around, and it's like there's

2246
02:06:58,160 --> 02:07:00,120
Speaker 8: so many people trying to make a similar from the

2247
02:07:00,120 --> 02:07:02,600
Speaker 8: movements to sell back to other people at this point

2248
02:07:02,640 --> 02:07:07,000
Speaker 8: in time, and like there's just a very like that's

2249
02:07:07,080 --> 02:07:09,520
Speaker 8: just a very large, pervasive feeling, and that combined with

2250
02:07:09,520 --> 02:07:12,440
Speaker 8: the more kind of the more liberalization of certain of

2251
02:07:12,480 --> 02:07:15,000
Speaker 8: certain aspects, again compared to the last week of Action,

2252
02:07:15,080 --> 02:07:18,120
Speaker 8: which felt there was a strong militant continuent.

2253
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:20,920
Speaker 5: And like the liberal continued was still there.

2254
02:07:21,720 --> 02:07:23,240
Speaker 11: If you build it, we will burn it.

2255
02:07:23,560 --> 02:07:27,760
Speaker 8: And that's not the vibe here. That's not the vibe here.

2256
02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:30,080
Speaker 8: There's definitely a big separation in terms of what types

2257
02:07:30,120 --> 02:07:31,560
Speaker 8: of people are at what side of the park.

2258
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:32,000
Speaker 11: Right now.

2259
02:07:32,560 --> 02:07:34,680
Speaker 8: There's a more like more like forested section of the

2260
02:07:34,680 --> 02:07:36,520
Speaker 8: park with a creek on the south side, which is

2261
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 8: where people are setting up. Some camping sites have of

2262
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:41,800
Speaker 8: a kitchen that's where the well content is. And then

2263
02:07:41,800 --> 02:07:44,000
Speaker 8: there's the other side of the park that has like

2264
02:07:44,080 --> 02:07:46,120
Speaker 8: the rec center and the playground, which seems more like

2265
02:07:46,160 --> 02:07:47,080
Speaker 8: family friendly stuff.

2266
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:49,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, there are kids there, there's the popcorn setup.

2267
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:51,600
Speaker 8: It's more like house so there is a bouncy house,

2268
02:07:51,600 --> 02:07:53,800
Speaker 8: which is great return.

2269
02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:58,840
Speaker 11: They couldn't, they couldn't keep this moving down. I won't.

2270
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:05,120
Speaker 8: I won't rest until destroyed until the contrastory Everybounty Castle

2271
02:08:05,320 --> 02:08:10,400
Speaker 8: in Atlanta, till every bouncy castle is deflated.

2272
02:08:11,440 --> 02:08:13,240
Speaker 5: That is, that is the new movement's so good.

2273
02:08:13,680 --> 02:08:16,920
Speaker 8: In contrast to the last kickoff rally at Gresham Park,

2274
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:20,760
Speaker 8: which felt very unified, this time there was a noticeable

2275
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:23,880
Speaker 8: separation in terms of what types of people are on

2276
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:27,560
Speaker 8: the two sides of the park. People wearing camouflage and

2277
02:08:27,680 --> 02:08:30,280
Speaker 8: masks were more situated on the south side of the

2278
02:08:30,320 --> 02:08:33,600
Speaker 8: park where tents were being set up, versus people by

2279
02:08:33,640 --> 02:08:36,080
Speaker 8: the playground who were going around with the referendum sign

2280
02:08:36,160 --> 02:08:38,840
Speaker 8: up sheet and where all the food was being handed out.

2281
02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:44,040
Speaker 5: It's so separated the game, the two groups.

2282
02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:48,280
Speaker 8: Cannot cannot, cannot counsel each other, and even like people

2283
02:08:48,280 --> 02:08:53,640
Speaker 8: like turnout seemed to be a bit lower than some

2284
02:08:53,680 --> 02:08:57,240
Speaker 8: people expected, and it was definitely much lower compared to

2285
02:08:57,320 --> 02:09:00,880
Speaker 8: the previous few weeks of action, and overall the rally

2286
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:05,120
Speaker 8: was very muted and lacked a sense of energy or focus,

2287
02:09:05,480 --> 02:09:07,680
Speaker 8: Like the rallies start at eleven, which kind of kind

2288
02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:10,560
Speaker 8: of like nothing happened, like it just it felt very directionless,

2289
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:13,640
Speaker 8: felt like people did not quite know why they were

2290
02:09:13,680 --> 02:09:14,600
Speaker 8: there at this point in.

2291
02:09:14,560 --> 02:09:19,480
Speaker 5: Times, almost Nune before anyone really spoke on the bullhorn,

2292
02:09:19,960 --> 02:09:24,480
Speaker 5: and the music didn't start until noon and then what

2293
02:09:24,560 --> 02:09:26,880
Speaker 5: was it like a half hour ago, so like twelve

2294
02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:31,320
Speaker 5: thirty probably when when the first like speaker said anything

2295
02:09:31,640 --> 02:09:33,360
Speaker 5: from the Faith Coalition, I don't know.

2296
02:09:33,440 --> 02:09:36,000
Speaker 8: So far, the rally kind of feels like a microcosmum

2297
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:38,880
Speaker 8: of the entire movement at this point, just not quite

2298
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:40,440
Speaker 8: sure where to direct the energy to.

2299
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:43,480
Speaker 11: There's a feeling that like people should do something, but

2300
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:45,600
Speaker 11: they don't quite know how to.

2301
02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:48,120
Speaker 8: They haven't decided how that should be directed yet, and

2302
02:09:48,120 --> 02:09:50,440
Speaker 8: so like there's some people showing up, but it's just

2303
02:09:50,480 --> 02:09:52,320
Speaker 8: like it feels kind of stagnant and like there's this

2304
02:09:52,480 --> 02:09:54,480
Speaker 8: there's this need to evolve right now.

2305
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:58,040
Speaker 3: And I don't know.

2306
02:09:58,040 --> 02:10:00,400
Speaker 8: I think maybe people got burnt out from this council

2307
02:10:00,440 --> 02:10:02,320
Speaker 8: things that there's a lot of energy being pumped into that.

2308
02:10:02,640 --> 02:10:04,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then I guess some people that.

2309
02:10:04,680 --> 02:10:07,960
Speaker 8: Was like three weeks of pushing energy and that and

2310
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:09,600
Speaker 8: that was only like two weeks ago, like that that's

2311
02:10:09,600 --> 02:10:12,920
Speaker 8: still very recently. Three weeks now, it still feels it

2312
02:10:12,960 --> 02:10:15,960
Speaker 8: still feels very raw. Walking down the pathway on the

2313
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:19,000
Speaker 8: south side of Brownwood you can see people setting up tents,

2314
02:10:19,240 --> 02:10:20,840
Speaker 8: carrying camping supplies and.

2315
02:10:20,800 --> 02:10:21,800
Speaker 3: Big jugs of water.

2316
02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:25,800
Speaker 8: Other people were assembling a makeshift kitchen in the tree line,

2317
02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:29,200
Speaker 8: and all of that was physically reminiscent of the last

2318
02:10:29,200 --> 02:10:32,400
Speaker 8: week of action. But being four miles away from the

2319
02:10:32,400 --> 02:10:36,400
Speaker 8: forest at Brownwood Park instead of the wallani impacted the

2320
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:39,320
Speaker 8: feeling on the ground. We're both we're so far away

2321
02:10:39,320 --> 02:10:41,520
Speaker 8: from the forest. But if there's like that separation of space,

2322
02:10:42,920 --> 02:10:44,440
Speaker 8: like it feels so distant.

2323
02:10:44,080 --> 02:10:48,440
Speaker 5: And distant, even more than than Gresham Park, even with

2324
02:10:48,560 --> 02:10:50,520
Speaker 5: the Gresham Like if this were happening in Gresham Park,

2325
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:55,320
Speaker 5: I think that might even be a different feeling, yeah,

2326
02:10:55,440 --> 02:11:00,840
Speaker 5: because at least you're attached to your Luilani.

2327
02:11:01,240 --> 02:11:04,640
Speaker 8: There was more determination on like the south side of

2328
02:11:04,640 --> 02:11:06,920
Speaker 8: of the park and you could feel like the people

2329
02:11:06,960 --> 02:11:08,800
Speaker 8: want at least people want to do something physically, and

2330
02:11:08,800 --> 02:11:11,160
Speaker 8: they were. But it's even still unclear how it's going

2331
02:11:11,200 --> 02:11:13,839
Speaker 8: to get directed towards, like like what is this doing.

2332
02:11:13,680 --> 02:11:15,480
Speaker 11: To stop prop city right now? Like that is that's

2333
02:11:15,480 --> 02:11:16,280
Speaker 11: the big thing.

2334
02:11:16,200 --> 02:11:18,600
Speaker 8: Is like people are trying to figure that out and

2335
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:22,640
Speaker 8: there's people here, but like what are what are people

2336
02:11:22,680 --> 02:11:23,640
Speaker 8: actually going to be doing?

2337
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:29,360
Speaker 5: Like I that's that's the question that is You're going

2338
02:11:29,400 --> 02:11:30,880
Speaker 5: to be un answered at least today.

2339
02:11:31,080 --> 02:11:34,000
Speaker 8: I would say the last week of action in March

2340
02:11:34,240 --> 02:11:37,320
Speaker 8: was very important in terms of setting the stage for

2341
02:11:37,440 --> 02:11:41,000
Speaker 8: what the next few months would look like. The direct

2342
02:11:41,080 --> 02:11:44,560
Speaker 8: action that happened on Sunday during the music festival was

2343
02:11:44,920 --> 02:11:49,440
Speaker 8: very important and successful, but also carried large ramifications for

2344
02:11:49,480 --> 02:11:51,840
Speaker 8: how the rest of the movement would be shaped in

2345
02:11:51,960 --> 02:11:55,640
Speaker 8: terms of the police repression and increase police presence in

2346
02:11:55,720 --> 02:11:59,959
Speaker 8: the forest. The weeks of action definitely have this ability

2347
02:12:00,120 --> 02:12:03,320
Speaker 8: to affect how the movement as a whole evolves in

2348
02:12:03,400 --> 02:12:07,320
Speaker 8: the subsequent months. On Saturday, there were worries that if

2349
02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:10,000
Speaker 8: things were simply going to continue to be like this

2350
02:12:10,080 --> 02:12:13,760
Speaker 8: kickoff rally, that wouldn't be a positive direction and would

2351
02:12:13,800 --> 02:12:17,160
Speaker 8: be a bad sign. It's just so I mean, it's

2352
02:12:17,200 --> 02:12:18,880
Speaker 8: hard not to convey this to the to the last

2353
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:21,680
Speaker 8: Week of Action kickoff rally at Gresham, which just felt

2354
02:12:21,720 --> 02:12:24,680
Speaker 8: so different like that, there was like almost ten times

2355
02:12:24,680 --> 02:12:27,600
Speaker 8: as many people. There was like a feeling of like motion.

2356
02:12:27,720 --> 02:12:29,280
Speaker 8: There was a feeling of like we can, we have

2357
02:12:29,400 --> 02:12:30,880
Speaker 8: we have to go do a thing, and we're gonna

2358
02:12:30,880 --> 02:12:33,120
Speaker 8: do it no matter what, Like we don't know it's

2359
02:12:33,160 --> 02:12:34,560
Speaker 8: gonna be on the other side of the tunnel, but

2360
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:36,480
Speaker 8: we're going there to do it anyway.

2361
02:12:36,520 --> 02:12:37,680
Speaker 5: We're gonna find it out together.

2362
02:12:37,880 --> 02:12:40,280
Speaker 11: And there was that was a lot of determination, and

2363
02:12:40,320 --> 02:12:41,120
Speaker 11: then there was a lot.

2364
02:12:40,960 --> 02:12:43,080
Speaker 8: Of like there was like a pointed nes like they

2365
02:12:43,160 --> 02:12:46,080
Speaker 8: knew where they were going, and this does not It

2366
02:12:46,400 --> 02:12:50,320
Speaker 8: lacks that pointedness. It feels like people aren't quite sure

2367
02:12:50,560 --> 02:12:52,320
Speaker 8: why they're here or what to do at this point

2368
02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:55,200
Speaker 8: in time. And if the movement wants to be able

2369
02:12:55,200 --> 02:12:57,400
Speaker 8: to continue in its goals, it has to find some

2370
02:12:57,400 --> 02:12:59,480
Speaker 8: way to evolve in the next two months, as construction

2371
02:12:59,600 --> 02:13:01,000
Speaker 8: is gonna about and.

2372
02:13:03,040 --> 02:13:04,600
Speaker 11: I guess this was weak, kind.

2373
02:13:04,480 --> 02:13:07,880
Speaker 5: Of wild the bell weather either well, either a bell

2374
02:13:07,920 --> 02:13:11,960
Speaker 5: weather or a learning experience. Yeah, it might not be

2375
02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:15,760
Speaker 5: any sort of death now, but it will have to

2376
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:18,040
Speaker 5: be a learning experience probably. Yeah.

2377
02:13:18,240 --> 02:13:20,200
Speaker 8: That's that's kind of most of most of my thoughts

2378
02:13:20,240 --> 02:13:22,920
Speaker 8: so far based on walking through both places.

2379
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:26,640
Speaker 11: There's just not much else talkulaks and how much is happening?

2380
02:13:26,720 --> 02:13:26,880
Speaker 7: Like it?

2381
02:13:27,560 --> 02:13:31,080
Speaker 8: Soon enough, however, other things did start happening thanks to

2382
02:13:31,160 --> 02:13:35,800
Speaker 8: the Atlanta Police Department, but throughout that afternoon things remained

2383
02:13:35,800 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 8: mostly low key, and as the day went on, the

2384
02:13:38,520 --> 02:13:41,840
Speaker 8: gathering at Brownwood Park turned into a community barbecue and

2385
02:13:41,920 --> 02:13:44,800
Speaker 8: people started to get a much more clear idea of

2386
02:13:44,840 --> 02:13:48,800
Speaker 8: what the expectations for that day were. As people settled

2387
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:51,720
Speaker 8: into the park, there seemed to be any big anticipation

2388
02:13:51,960 --> 02:13:55,080
Speaker 8: for what everyone was going to be doing that first day.

2389
02:13:55,400 --> 02:13:57,680
Speaker 8: There wasn't supposed to be a vigil for Tortighita in

2390
02:13:57,720 --> 02:14:01,320
Speaker 8: the park that evening, which was in terrupted by Atlanta

2391
02:14:01,360 --> 02:14:04,120
Speaker 8: Police officers who swept through the park issuing a quote

2392
02:14:04,160 --> 02:14:08,680
Speaker 8: unquote friendly reminder that the park closed at eleven pm.

2393
02:14:08,880 --> 02:14:11,600
Speaker 8: All right, it's around eight thirty, about forty police officers

2394
02:14:11,680 --> 02:14:14,560
Speaker 8: just walked through Brownwood Park telling people that are gathered

2395
02:14:14,560 --> 02:14:17,320
Speaker 8: here that the park closes at eleven and everyone's basically

2396
02:14:17,320 --> 02:14:19,440
Speaker 8: anticipating that police are going to try to sweep the

2397
02:14:19,520 --> 02:14:21,840
Speaker 8: entirety of the park, including the sections where people are

2398
02:14:21,840 --> 02:14:25,440
Speaker 8: trying to camp out. Around eleven PM, the cops were

2399
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:28,880
Speaker 8: walking south through the park as the crowd was walking

2400
02:14:28,960 --> 02:14:32,920
Speaker 8: and chanting along the way as well. Cops left under

2401
02:14:32,960 --> 02:14:38,080
Speaker 8: the heels of like maybe seventy five to two hundred

2402
02:14:38,120 --> 02:14:41,320
Speaker 8: people who were chanting along the south side of Brownwood.

2403
02:14:41,600 --> 02:14:45,240
Speaker 8: They've been staging around Brownwood Park and Portland Avenue for

2404
02:14:45,280 --> 02:14:49,520
Speaker 8: the past hour or so. They had like twenty thirty cars,

2405
02:14:49,800 --> 02:14:53,520
Speaker 8: it's around forty fifty officers. People decided they did not

2406
02:14:53,600 --> 02:14:56,000
Speaker 8: wish to stand their ground and fight off a possible

2407
02:14:56,040 --> 02:14:59,160
Speaker 8: police raid at Brownwood Park, so they spent the next

2408
02:14:59,160 --> 02:15:01,440
Speaker 8: few hours packing up all the supplies and equipment that

2409
02:15:01,480 --> 02:15:04,920
Speaker 8: they just spent all day setting up, and then evacuated

2410
02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:10,040
Speaker 8: from the area. Okay, it is eleven ten PM. It

2411
02:15:10,120 --> 02:15:12,800
Speaker 8: seems like the cops essentially just did what I'm referring

2412
02:15:12,840 --> 02:15:16,880
Speaker 8: to as advanced bluffing. So they walk through it on

2413
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:19,480
Speaker 8: eight thirty warning people hey, park closes at eleven, which

2414
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:21,320
Speaker 8: very much, very much indicating that, hey, we're.

2415
02:15:21,160 --> 02:15:22,600
Speaker 11: Going to sweep through and fuck with your shit if

2416
02:15:22,640 --> 02:15:23,160
Speaker 11: you're still here.

2417
02:15:23,600 --> 02:15:26,240
Speaker 8: So the next few hours people spent time you know,

2418
02:15:26,320 --> 02:15:30,280
Speaker 8: packing up, breaking down the tents, of leaving, heading to

2419
02:15:30,440 --> 02:15:32,880
Speaker 8: other locations. And then at eleven, we kind of just

2420
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:35,240
Speaker 8: expected police to do a standard sweep through, you know,

2421
02:15:35,320 --> 02:15:37,840
Speaker 8: destroy anything they find. If they find people, tell them

2422
02:15:37,880 --> 02:15:41,080
Speaker 8: to leave or else get arrested. Standard stuff. At this point,

2423
02:15:41,120 --> 02:15:44,160
Speaker 8: there's about seven or eight police cruisers staged around the

2424
02:15:44,240 --> 02:15:47,720
Speaker 8: south side of the park, but they're not actually sweeping

2425
02:15:47,800 --> 02:15:50,240
Speaker 8: through because it's pretty clear that there's like no one

2426
02:15:50,280 --> 02:15:52,600
Speaker 8: actually in the park at this point. It's just very

2427
02:15:52,600 --> 02:15:56,600
Speaker 8: clearly like empty and quiet, So I don't even I

2428
02:15:56,600 --> 02:15:58,400
Speaker 8: don't even think cops are going to sweep through. It's

2429
02:15:58,400 --> 02:16:00,200
Speaker 8: it's been already like ten to fifteen minutes, so we

2430
02:16:00,200 --> 02:16:02,280
Speaker 8: expected them to kind of sweep on the hour, but

2431
02:16:02,480 --> 02:16:04,440
Speaker 8: they just like don't need to because it's very clear

2432
02:16:04,440 --> 02:16:06,440
Speaker 8: that no one's in the park, so they just kind

2433
02:16:06,440 --> 02:16:10,240
Speaker 8: of like successfully bluffed themselves into getting everyone to leave.

2434
02:16:11,120 --> 02:16:13,960
Speaker 8: I mean, if there were people still here in visible capacity,

2435
02:16:13,960 --> 02:16:17,200
Speaker 8: I'm sure police would sweep through, but there's really there's

2436
02:16:17,240 --> 02:16:18,920
Speaker 8: no one visible in the park from many of like

2437
02:16:18,960 --> 02:16:21,880
Speaker 8: the perimeters around, so they're not even gonna bother sweeping through.

2438
02:16:22,280 --> 02:16:24,040
Speaker 8: But yeah, it looks like this is the end of

2439
02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:29,080
Speaker 8: Brownwood Day one and the very kind of low key

2440
02:16:29,160 --> 02:16:32,120
Speaker 8: kickoff rally. Still, the week definitely is lacking a sense

2441
02:16:32,120 --> 02:16:36,720
Speaker 8: of direction. There's been a cab swat doing perimeter sweeps

2442
02:16:36,800 --> 02:16:40,360
Speaker 8: around the Wailani Forest and the round Grressian Park where

2443
02:16:40,360 --> 02:16:43,400
Speaker 8: there's some future events planned. We will see how that

2444
02:16:43,440 --> 02:16:46,560
Speaker 8: plays out in these next few days. It certainly seems

2445
02:16:46,640 --> 02:16:49,959
Speaker 8: like police wanted to make some show of force early

2446
02:16:50,040 --> 02:16:52,360
Speaker 8: on in the week to stifle the week of action.

2447
02:16:53,080 --> 02:16:56,440
Speaker 8: The threat of array the very first tonight was indeed

2448
02:16:56,600 --> 02:17:00,160
Speaker 8: disruptive to the logistics for the week, but ultimately peopeople

2449
02:17:00,200 --> 02:17:02,240
Speaker 8: were able to band together to keep each other safe

2450
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:07,760
Speaker 8: and cared for. During this current general sense of directionlessness,

2451
02:17:08,080 --> 02:17:10,279
Speaker 8: there were a lot of questions on how the movement

2452
02:17:10,280 --> 02:17:13,959
Speaker 8: will change during this turning point. With little in the

2453
02:17:13,959 --> 02:17:18,240
Speaker 8: way of obvious answers or new paths of resistance, The

2454
02:17:18,280 --> 02:17:21,240
Speaker 8: following Sunday and Monday of the week continued to be

2455
02:17:21,440 --> 02:17:25,360
Speaker 8: mostly low key. People used those days to facilitate workshops

2456
02:17:25,360 --> 02:17:28,680
Speaker 8: and discussions to work through the shift the movement was

2457
02:17:28,720 --> 02:17:31,440
Speaker 8: going through. At the end of the week, I sat

2458
02:17:31,520 --> 02:17:34,720
Speaker 8: down with Matt in East Atlanta Village to talk about

2459
02:17:34,760 --> 02:17:37,920
Speaker 8: the week as a whole and compare notes. Here's a

2460
02:17:37,920 --> 02:17:40,960
Speaker 8: bit of our conversation talking about the discussions that started

2461
02:17:40,959 --> 02:17:45,040
Speaker 8: happening during those first few days. This was a week

2462
02:17:45,080 --> 02:17:48,080
Speaker 8: of discussions, like it was, it really was. There was

2463
02:17:48,080 --> 02:17:50,039
Speaker 8: a lot of meetings, There was a lot of discussions happening,

2464
02:17:50,040 --> 02:17:52,600
Speaker 8: people figuring out what do we do, Like if we

2465
02:17:52,640 --> 02:17:54,440
Speaker 8: actually want to stop cop City and it's going to

2466
02:17:54,480 --> 02:17:57,920
Speaker 8: get built in these next few months, like now.

2467
02:17:57,840 --> 02:17:59,800
Speaker 11: Is the time to figure out what the fuck to

2468
02:17:59,840 --> 02:18:00,520
Speaker 11: do next.

2469
02:18:00,879 --> 02:18:03,000
Speaker 8: So people have been having those discussions this week, and

2470
02:18:03,080 --> 02:18:05,040
Speaker 8: if anything, the Week of Action has been useful in

2471
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:06,680
Speaker 8: this in this sense that it's brought a lot of

2472
02:18:06,680 --> 02:18:10,600
Speaker 8: people together so they can have these generative conversations. And

2473
02:18:10,720 --> 02:18:13,200
Speaker 8: there was a lot more conversations during this week than

2474
02:18:13,280 --> 02:18:15,360
Speaker 8: last week. There was one on like what the state

2475
02:18:15,440 --> 02:18:18,120
Speaker 8: of the movement is now, especially with the referendum taking

2476
02:18:18,160 --> 02:18:21,080
Speaker 8: up more visibility, how are like radical is going to

2477
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:25,680
Speaker 8: navigate this space and this movement with a lot of

2478
02:18:25,720 --> 02:18:27,480
Speaker 8: things in flux, and I think that that was definitely

2479
02:18:27,520 --> 02:18:29,920
Speaker 8: my first read. Even even on the Cookoff rally, I

2480
02:18:29,920 --> 02:18:31,640
Speaker 8: felt like there's a lot of people like not sure

2481
02:18:31,640 --> 02:18:33,520
Speaker 8: what to do, as very directionless. People were asking a

2482
02:18:33,520 --> 02:18:35,800
Speaker 8: lot of questions, and more questions were being asked all

2483
02:18:35,800 --> 02:18:37,360
Speaker 8: throughout the week. There's a lot of discussions, a lot

2484
02:18:37,360 --> 02:18:40,160
Speaker 8: of meetings about like what do we do now, Like

2485
02:18:40,280 --> 02:18:42,320
Speaker 8: if construction is going to start in the next two months,

2486
02:18:42,320 --> 02:18:44,360
Speaker 8: like what is this movement going to do? Like that

2487
02:18:44,800 --> 02:18:47,200
Speaker 8: people can chant if you build it, we will burn it.

2488
02:18:47,400 --> 02:18:51,400
Speaker 8: But chanting it and doing it two different things. And

2489
02:18:51,600 --> 02:18:53,880
Speaker 8: the movement is it's going to go through a period

2490
02:18:53,879 --> 02:18:56,600
Speaker 8: of evolution and then in these next few months, and

2491
02:18:57,320 --> 02:18:59,200
Speaker 8: with all of those questions being asked, I feel like

2492
02:18:59,240 --> 02:19:01,840
Speaker 8: the answer to those questions is going to be the

2493
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:04,280
Speaker 8: actions people do take in these next few months. In

2494
02:19:04,320 --> 02:19:07,240
Speaker 8: the aftermath of the clear cutting, it felt like in

2495
02:19:07,280 --> 02:19:10,280
Speaker 8: some ways that the window of possibility for this movement

2496
02:19:10,520 --> 02:19:14,600
Speaker 8: was closing as options seemed to be getting smaller. More

2497
02:19:14,640 --> 02:19:17,480
Speaker 8: people started pursuing the referendum as a potential means of

2498
02:19:17,480 --> 02:19:21,840
Speaker 8: stopping Copcity, but those in the more militant anarchist wing

2499
02:19:21,840 --> 02:19:25,200
Speaker 8: of the movement were left questioning, after two years of

2500
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:28,160
Speaker 8: employing a diversity of tactics largely led by direct action,

2501
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:30,800
Speaker 8: if it's the right and move to switch to an

2502
02:19:30,840 --> 02:19:34,480
Speaker 8: electoral strategy now when the situation is approaching its most

2503
02:19:34,640 --> 02:19:37,720
Speaker 8: dire but since it is happening whether they like it

2504
02:19:37,800 --> 02:19:40,920
Speaker 8: or not, anarchists were wondering, what can people do so

2505
02:19:40,959 --> 02:19:44,160
Speaker 8: that the referendum doesn't completely dominate the narrative of the

2506
02:19:44,200 --> 02:19:49,280
Speaker 8: movement or disincentivize other evolutions of the struggle. Now, obviously,

2507
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:52,240
Speaker 8: a group of people pursuing a referendum does not prohibit

2508
02:19:52,360 --> 02:19:55,760
Speaker 8: other people from engaging in direct action, but there still

2509
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:58,240
Speaker 8: were worries that the referendum could become a sort of

2510
02:19:58,440 --> 02:20:02,040
Speaker 8: release mechanism for the move both in terms of new

2511
02:20:02,040 --> 02:20:06,520
Speaker 8: people's involvement being pushed toward this more liberalized electoral strategy

2512
02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:09,840
Speaker 8: instead of radical action, or if the petition or even

2513
02:20:09,879 --> 02:20:13,640
Speaker 8: potential ballot vote fails, then that being used as an

2514
02:20:13,680 --> 02:20:18,360
Speaker 8: indicator that most people in the city actually do want copcity.

2515
02:20:18,680 --> 02:20:21,400
Speaker 8: But through all this, what anarchists can do, and what

2516
02:20:21,440 --> 02:20:25,680
Speaker 8: they typically do, is to encourage radical autonomy and self determination,

2517
02:20:26,160 --> 02:20:30,560
Speaker 8: regardless of electoral strategies or outcomes, whether or not a

2518
02:20:30,560 --> 02:20:34,560
Speaker 8: petition gets sixty some thousand signatures does not affect a

2519
02:20:34,600 --> 02:20:39,720
Speaker 8: burning construction vehicle. Just as these sort of discussions were happening.

2520
02:20:40,120 --> 02:20:42,920
Speaker 8: It's kind of fitting that on Monday, June twenty sixth,

2521
02:20:43,160 --> 02:20:46,600
Speaker 8: we saw the first communication in months claiming responsibility for

2522
02:20:46,760 --> 02:20:51,080
Speaker 8: equipment sabotage. After the last week of Action in March

2523
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:54,680
Speaker 8: and subsequent police raids on the forest, increased security, the

2524
02:20:54,760 --> 02:20:57,840
Speaker 8: rapid clear cutting and big push for city council public

2525
02:20:57,879 --> 02:21:00,800
Speaker 8: comment followed by the start of the referendum. Throughout that

2526
02:21:00,959 --> 02:21:03,560
Speaker 8: series of events, there really hadn't been much in the

2527
02:21:03,600 --> 02:21:07,760
Speaker 8: way of nocturnal direct action sabotage happening in Atlanta or

2528
02:21:08,040 --> 02:21:12,039
Speaker 8: across the country. In solidarity once a core component of

2529
02:21:12,080 --> 02:21:15,360
Speaker 8: this movement was seriously lacking in the months leading up

2530
02:21:15,400 --> 02:21:18,840
Speaker 8: to this summer, and then suddenly, after the June Week

2531
02:21:18,879 --> 02:21:22,600
Speaker 8: of Action's mostly uneventful start, a post went up on

2532
02:21:22,680 --> 02:21:25,320
Speaker 8: the sketchu web site scene stott no blogs dot org

2533
02:21:25,640 --> 02:21:28,840
Speaker 8: claiming that a group of anonymous individuals snuck into a

2534
02:21:28,879 --> 02:21:33,240
Speaker 8: subcontractor's machine storage lot and poured hydrochloric acid into the

2535
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:38,080
Speaker 8: oil tanks of three vehicles. The target was Brent Scarborough, company,

2536
02:21:38,200 --> 02:21:41,360
Speaker 8: a Georgia based subcontractor who was hired to clear cut

2537
02:21:41,400 --> 02:21:45,200
Speaker 8: the Wallani forest and was currently engaged in mass land

2538
02:21:45,240 --> 02:21:50,000
Speaker 8: grading on the site. I drove by the site on

2539
02:21:50,080 --> 02:21:56,119
Speaker 8: Monday and I saw like over twenty machines like actively

2540
02:21:56,320 --> 02:21:57,200
Speaker 8: working on the land.

2541
02:21:57,800 --> 02:21:59,440
Speaker 5: Very avatar was.

2542
02:22:00,320 --> 02:22:06,720
Speaker 8: Yes, y or Fer and Gully the superior film, but no,

2543
02:22:06,800 --> 02:22:09,240
Speaker 8: like it's like the site's being very actively worked on.

2544
02:22:09,280 --> 02:22:11,320
Speaker 8: Like I've never seen that many machines doing active work,

2545
02:22:12,320 --> 02:22:14,920
Speaker 8: like all moving at the same time. Early Monday morning,

2546
02:22:15,080 --> 02:22:18,039
Speaker 8: the Stop Cop City referendum put out a strong statement

2547
02:22:18,080 --> 02:22:21,440
Speaker 8: of solidarity with quote all tactics on the road to

2548
02:22:21,520 --> 02:22:25,760
Speaker 8: collective liberation unquote and openly rejected the state's framing of

2549
02:22:25,800 --> 02:22:30,160
Speaker 8: quote unquote violent and nonviolent resistance. To briefly quote a

2550
02:22:30,200 --> 02:22:32,879
Speaker 8: few of the last sentences of the statement, quote, the

2551
02:22:32,959 --> 02:22:36,240
Speaker 8: cop City vote referendum campaign is grounded in the values

2552
02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:41,000
Speaker 8: of abolitionist organizing and racial and environmental justice. We also

2553
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:44,080
Speaker 8: recognize our chosen tactic is a single intervention in a

2554
02:22:44,080 --> 02:22:47,720
Speaker 8: wide rainbow of fighting state repression. We seek to use

2555
02:22:47,760 --> 02:22:51,720
Speaker 8: the Cop City referendum to leverage local power, educate and

2556
02:22:51,800 --> 02:22:55,200
Speaker 8: activate our communities, and build networks that can strengthen our

2557
02:22:55,240 --> 02:22:59,480
Speaker 8: city and future mobilizations. The referendum is one piece of

2558
02:22:59,520 --> 02:23:04,480
Speaker 8: a vibrant, into multifaceted movement, one that defies respectable categorization

2559
02:23:04,920 --> 02:23:08,199
Speaker 8: as well as its state violence and repression. The Cop

2560
02:23:08,240 --> 02:23:12,160
Speaker 8: City Vote Referendum Coalition stands in solidarity and full support

2561
02:23:12,440 --> 02:23:15,040
Speaker 8: of the Stop Cop City Week of Action, the larger

2562
02:23:15,080 --> 02:23:19,080
Speaker 8: movement and abolitionist organizers and activists across this city.

2563
02:23:20,440 --> 02:23:24,080
Speaker 5: Unintentionally, these two things coincided. There was the release of

2564
02:23:24,120 --> 02:23:27,199
Speaker 5: the scenes like the first sabotage in months, and then

2565
02:23:27,480 --> 02:23:31,840
Speaker 5: the referendum released that same day, the solidarity statement for

2566
02:23:31,959 --> 02:23:35,520
Speaker 5: all Yes actions taken to stock Coop City. No, just

2567
02:23:35,600 --> 02:23:38,279
Speaker 5: think that needs the statement itself needs to be highlighted,

2568
02:23:38,480 --> 02:23:42,120
Speaker 5: and yeah, I think it seems like they're going to

2569
02:23:42,120 --> 02:23:42,560
Speaker 5: stick to that.

2570
02:23:42,760 --> 02:23:46,080
Speaker 8: The solidarity statement was widely applauded and seen as a

2571
02:23:46,120 --> 02:23:49,360
Speaker 8: good sign regarding the referendum's place in the larger fight

2572
02:23:49,440 --> 02:23:52,680
Speaker 8: against Cop City and how it was not intending to

2573
02:23:52,720 --> 02:23:57,000
Speaker 8: take space away from other aspects of the movement. Tuesday morning,

2574
02:23:57,080 --> 02:24:00,760
Speaker 8: there was a small protest outside the Cab County Commissioner's

2575
02:24:00,760 --> 02:24:04,520
Speaker 8: Building to call for the reopening of entrenchment Creek Park.

2576
02:24:05,400 --> 02:24:08,039
Speaker 8: The park was a common gathering spot for the movement

2577
02:24:08,360 --> 02:24:11,119
Speaker 8: at where many people camped during previous weeks of action.

2578
02:24:11,840 --> 02:24:15,840
Speaker 8: An executive order from DECAB CEO Michael Thurmond closed the

2579
02:24:15,879 --> 02:24:19,160
Speaker 8: park late last March as the police geared up to

2580
02:24:19,240 --> 02:24:22,480
Speaker 8: fortify Bolauni and speed run all of the tree felling.

2581
02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:25,160
Speaker 5: So I sat in the Board of Commissioners meeting and

2582
02:24:25,200 --> 02:24:28,120
Speaker 5: it's different than a city council meeting, where like anybody

2583
02:24:28,120 --> 02:24:30,320
Speaker 5: who signs up to do public comment can do public comment.

2584
02:24:30,360 --> 02:24:32,600
Speaker 5: They only a lot thirty minutes of public comment, so

2585
02:24:33,120 --> 02:24:38,120
Speaker 5: about that amounts to ten speakers, and I think about

2586
02:24:38,160 --> 02:24:40,640
Speaker 5: six of them were actually there for, you know, to

2587
02:24:40,680 --> 02:24:43,200
Speaker 5: talk about opening the park. And then the rally, I

2588
02:24:43,240 --> 02:24:46,120
Speaker 5: think it was something like thirty thirty people. It was

2589
02:24:46,160 --> 02:24:50,480
Speaker 5: a student organized rally, and they did a couple speakers

2590
02:24:50,720 --> 02:24:56,720
Speaker 5: and then that was that was it. Not much from

2591
02:24:56,760 --> 02:24:59,480
Speaker 5: the cab, Like the cab only came out to make

2592
02:24:59,480 --> 02:25:02,480
Speaker 5: sure that they were blocking a pathway okay, And it

2593
02:25:02,520 --> 02:25:04,440
Speaker 5: was kind of hands off. I did get a parking ticket,

2594
02:25:04,760 --> 02:25:06,840
Speaker 5: that was my fault, you did. Yeah, I let my

2595
02:25:06,879 --> 02:25:12,160
Speaker 5: parking expire for twelve minutes. A legalist mascot at the ACPC. Wow.

2596
02:25:13,280 --> 02:25:15,680
Speaker 5: Uh and yeah, the minute I do something illegal, I

2597
02:25:15,760 --> 02:25:17,359
Speaker 5: get a traving ticket.

2598
02:25:17,400 --> 02:25:21,240
Speaker 8: Previously in June that a CAB CEO proposed a one

2599
02:25:21,280 --> 02:25:25,320
Speaker 8: point eight million dollar construction plan necessary to reopen the park,

2600
02:25:25,720 --> 02:25:28,920
Speaker 8: but no clear date on when that would happen. One

2601
02:25:28,959 --> 02:25:32,240
Speaker 8: County commissioner has been trying to fast track reopening the park,

2602
02:25:32,520 --> 02:25:36,000
Speaker 8: but their resolution has repeatedly been deferred by the county Board.

2603
02:25:36,600 --> 02:25:40,439
Speaker 8: The soonest it will be reconsidered is October tenth. Meanwhile,

2604
02:25:40,520 --> 02:25:45,400
Speaker 8: the park will remain indefinitely closed. Throughout the first few

2605
02:25:45,480 --> 02:25:48,040
Speaker 8: days of the Week of action, there was something kind

2606
02:25:48,080 --> 02:25:51,959
Speaker 8: of looming over everyone's heads. There was a march planned

2607
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:54,880
Speaker 8: from Gresham Park towards Bolani that was to take place

2608
02:25:54,920 --> 02:25:58,600
Speaker 8: on the evening of Wednesday, June twenty eighth. The police

2609
02:25:58,640 --> 02:26:01,040
Speaker 8: response to this action was prime to be the most

2610
02:26:01,080 --> 02:26:04,560
Speaker 8: intense out of the week. The path to Entrenchment Creek

2611
02:26:04,600 --> 02:26:07,480
Speaker 8: Park is a pretty closed in bike path with a

2612
02:26:07,520 --> 02:26:10,760
Speaker 8: tunnel going under an overpass where police have been staging

2613
02:26:10,800 --> 02:26:13,200
Speaker 8: to prevent people from entering the forest.

2614
02:26:13,560 --> 02:26:13,640
Speaker 6: No.

2615
02:26:13,720 --> 02:26:15,960
Speaker 8: I definitely felt like on Monday and Tuesday everyone was

2616
02:26:16,160 --> 02:26:18,720
Speaker 8: everyone was still like thinking about what would happen on Wednesday,

2617
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:21,680
Speaker 8: what would happen on the march from Gresham Park.

2618
02:26:22,560 --> 02:26:24,320
Speaker 11: That was that was the big unknown, That was the

2619
02:26:24,360 --> 02:26:25,400
Speaker 11: big danger.

2620
02:26:25,360 --> 02:26:29,960
Speaker 5: Like very palpable. Yeah, concern about how that was going

2621
02:26:30,000 --> 02:26:33,400
Speaker 5: to play out. Yeah, that probably, I mean all the

2622
02:26:33,400 --> 02:26:37,640
Speaker 5: way back to Saturday. That was probably like playing through

2623
02:26:38,120 --> 02:26:41,480
Speaker 5: people's minds and causing some of that like uncertainty.

2624
02:26:41,959 --> 02:26:44,280
Speaker 8: Police were setting up perimeters around the forest in an

2625
02:26:44,360 --> 02:26:47,920
Speaker 8: increased capacity than the usual detail. Pretty early on in

2626
02:26:47,959 --> 02:26:50,640
Speaker 8: the day, there was a Dacab County SWAT mobile command

2627
02:26:50,760 --> 02:26:53,920
Speaker 8: center posted up in a school parking lot next to

2628
02:26:53,959 --> 02:26:57,280
Speaker 8: the tunnel and bike path leading from Gresham to Wolani.

2629
02:26:57,959 --> 02:27:01,039
Speaker 8: Kind of as expected, this entire section of South Atlanta

2630
02:27:01,360 --> 02:27:05,879
Speaker 8: was crawling with police before people even gathered at Gresham Park.

2631
02:27:06,320 --> 02:27:09,560
Speaker 8: The day began with an unfortunately rocky start and the

2632
02:27:09,600 --> 02:27:13,439
Speaker 8: first arrest of the week outside Cadence Bank in Midtown.

2633
02:27:14,440 --> 02:27:16,800
Speaker 8: The protest was calling on the bank to cancel their

2634
02:27:16,840 --> 02:27:20,320
Speaker 8: twenty million dollar construction loan given to the Atlanta Police Foundation.

2635
02:27:20,920 --> 02:27:24,320
Speaker 5: So there was this action at Cadence Bank that they

2636
02:27:24,600 --> 02:27:30,560
Speaker 5: specifically didn't want media and so none of us were there. Yeah,

2637
02:27:30,600 --> 02:27:33,240
Speaker 5: and that was early in the morning. I don't I

2638
02:27:33,320 --> 02:27:36,119
Speaker 5: think We found out about it after renoon or something,

2639
02:27:37,160 --> 02:27:40,480
Speaker 5: so after I woke up. Yeah, I think it was

2640
02:27:40,520 --> 02:27:43,240
Speaker 5: like they said, thirty people, kind of like we saw

2641
02:27:44,120 --> 02:27:47,200
Speaker 5: the other day Friday, Yeah, on Friday. But as they

2642
02:27:47,200 --> 02:27:50,640
Speaker 5: were walking away, somebody gets well multiple they try to

2643
02:27:50,680 --> 02:27:51,400
Speaker 5: arrest multiple p.

2644
02:27:51,440 --> 02:27:52,520
Speaker 11: Please start chasing people.

2645
02:27:53,680 --> 02:27:57,360
Speaker 8: Someone gets grabbed and arrested, another person gets detained and

2646
02:27:57,400 --> 02:27:57,920
Speaker 8: then let go.

2647
02:27:59,480 --> 02:28:01,200
Speaker 11: Seemed like a pretty chaotic scene.

2648
02:28:01,840 --> 02:28:04,039
Speaker 8: That's not a great way to start off the day

2649
02:28:04,040 --> 02:28:06,680
Speaker 8: where you have your most stressful action plan for later.

2650
02:28:07,480 --> 02:28:09,119
Speaker 8: You wake up, you get chased by cops, and you're

2651
02:28:09,120 --> 02:28:11,480
Speaker 8: expecting to go do a march in a few hours. Yeah,

2652
02:28:12,320 --> 02:28:14,760
Speaker 8: in the most heavily police area of Atlanta right now.

2653
02:28:15,360 --> 02:28:17,320
Speaker 8: The march was to take place on the same bike

2654
02:28:17,400 --> 02:28:20,640
Speaker 8: path from Gresham Park to Intrenchment Creek Park that people

2655
02:28:20,680 --> 02:28:23,440
Speaker 8: took during the kickoff rally at the last week of Action,

2656
02:28:24,200 --> 02:28:27,720
Speaker 8: but much has changed on the ground since then. As

2657
02:28:27,720 --> 02:28:30,320
Speaker 8: people started to gather at Gresham Park on Wednesday evening,

2658
02:28:30,800 --> 02:28:34,400
Speaker 8: the numbers were quite small. As I progressed, around one

2659
02:28:34,520 --> 02:28:37,400
Speaker 8: hundred and fifty people eventually amassed, but it was still

2660
02:28:37,440 --> 02:28:39,760
Speaker 8: a small fraction of the number of people at the

2661
02:28:39,800 --> 02:28:44,440
Speaker 8: previous Gresham Park March and with a much greater police presence.

2662
02:28:45,440 --> 02:28:48,640
Speaker 8: The exact plan for the night was heavily dependent on

2663
02:28:48,760 --> 02:28:52,000
Speaker 8: a lot of factors that it was impossible to explicitly

2664
02:28:52,080 --> 02:28:55,320
Speaker 8: know beforehand, like how many people would show up and

2665
02:28:55,400 --> 02:28:58,600
Speaker 8: what they would feel comfortable doing based on the police response.

2666
02:28:59,840 --> 02:29:00,400
Speaker 11: Right, this is.

2667
02:29:00,360 --> 02:29:05,080
Speaker 8: Wednesday, June twenty eighth. Me and Matt from the Community

2668
02:29:05,080 --> 02:29:09,360
Speaker 8: Press Collective are gathered at Gresham Park. Overhead you can

2669
02:29:09,400 --> 02:29:14,040
Speaker 8: hear the Dacab helicopter circle at favorite sound, our favorite sound. Yes,

2670
02:29:15,080 --> 02:29:17,920
Speaker 8: there's about I don't know, maybe seventy five or more,

2671
02:29:18,520 --> 02:29:21,800
Speaker 8: close to one hundred, close to one hundred people gathered

2672
02:29:22,440 --> 02:29:25,279
Speaker 8: here in Gresham Park and people have plans to march

2673
02:29:25,959 --> 02:29:29,160
Speaker 8: towards Wolani or at least to the tunnel. And then

2674
02:29:29,200 --> 02:29:33,720
Speaker 8: what happens after that's kind of a big mystery. Definitely

2675
02:29:33,800 --> 02:29:36,200
Speaker 8: very different than the last time we were gathered in

2676
02:29:36,240 --> 02:29:37,760
Speaker 8: Gresham Park with a crowd of people.

2677
02:29:38,160 --> 02:29:41,640
Speaker 5: We're missing the music, we're missing the duwali like paint clouds,

2678
02:29:41,680 --> 02:29:47,200
Speaker 5: we're missing the kids. We're missing maybe the vibes just

2679
02:29:47,240 --> 02:29:47,720
Speaker 5: in general.

2680
02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:50,880
Speaker 8: Another eight hundred people or so, but I mean people

2681
02:29:50,879 --> 02:29:55,080
Speaker 8: are setting out science and some banners. Police have a

2682
02:29:55,160 --> 02:29:59,959
Speaker 8: decent presence around the around like the tunnel, or like

2683
02:30:00,040 --> 02:30:02,359
Speaker 8: the overpass over the tunnel, and around Wilani.

2684
02:30:02,480 --> 02:30:05,400
Speaker 5: Right now, all around the Wi Lanni triangle there's there

2685
02:30:05,640 --> 02:30:11,199
Speaker 5: APD and the cab County police just hanging out more

2686
02:30:11,200 --> 02:30:15,119
Speaker 5: than usual. And at the fire station there was more

2687
02:30:15,160 --> 02:30:19,400
Speaker 5: cops than I've seen since March fifth, since the last

2688
02:30:19,480 --> 02:30:20,080
Speaker 5: week of action.

2689
02:30:21,840 --> 02:30:25,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, earlier this morning I saw a d KEB County

2690
02:30:25,959 --> 02:30:29,440
Speaker 8: swat nobile command unit at the school next to the

2691
02:30:29,480 --> 02:30:32,360
Speaker 8: tunnel overpass, but I do not know where that is now.

2692
02:30:32,520 --> 02:30:34,440
Speaker 8: It was It was not parked there last time we

2693
02:30:34,520 --> 02:30:37,000
Speaker 8: drove by about half an hour ago. So yeah, just

2694
02:30:37,440 --> 02:30:40,680
Speaker 8: that is. That is the update as of as of

2695
02:30:40,760 --> 02:30:43,880
Speaker 8: six thirty. So I'm guessing this crowd will start moving

2696
02:30:43,920 --> 02:30:45,879
Speaker 8: the next thirty minutes to forty minutes.

2697
02:30:45,680 --> 02:30:47,920
Speaker 5: Probably have hour. Yeah all right.

2698
02:30:48,240 --> 02:30:50,760
Speaker 8: Right, as the crowd was about to set off, someone

2699
02:30:50,800 --> 02:30:53,920
Speaker 8: made an announcement that due to small numbers and large

2700
02:30:53,959 --> 02:30:57,279
Speaker 8: police presence, there was to be a change of plans.

2701
02:30:57,720 --> 02:31:00,320
Speaker 8: Instead of going all the way to Entrenchment Creek Park

2702
02:31:00,400 --> 02:31:02,640
Speaker 8: or even the tunnel, they were going to march one

2703
02:31:02,720 --> 02:31:05,119
Speaker 8: third of the way and stop on the bike path.

2704
02:31:05,400 --> 02:31:09,440
Speaker 8: All right, it's around seven to twenty pm, About one

2705
02:31:09,520 --> 02:31:12,360
Speaker 8: hundred and fifty people are leaving Gresham Park and they

2706
02:31:12,360 --> 02:31:15,120
Speaker 8: announce they're going to be going to hold a small

2707
02:31:15,200 --> 02:31:19,120
Speaker 8: vigil near one of one of the felled trees on

2708
02:31:19,200 --> 02:31:23,280
Speaker 8: the bike path. For a little while, the march was

2709
02:31:23,320 --> 02:31:27,040
Speaker 8: getting along fine, there was music and chanting, when suddenly

2710
02:31:27,400 --> 02:31:31,480
Speaker 8: police made an early appearance. Okay, so it's what seven

2711
02:31:31,720 --> 02:31:37,720
Speaker 8: seven fifty seven forty one on Wednesday, June twenty eighth.

2712
02:31:38,080 --> 02:31:41,360
Speaker 8: We are walking on the bike path and staged.

2713
02:31:40,959 --> 02:31:42,959
Speaker 5: Twenty five minutes into the walk and here we come

2714
02:31:43,160 --> 02:31:48,040
Speaker 5: on our first police presence of the day along our path.

2715
02:31:48,240 --> 02:31:51,040
Speaker 5: So too, thinking to Cab County. Yeah, two Decab County

2716
02:31:51,600 --> 02:31:55,920
Speaker 5: SuDS part side by side along the path, but they

2717
02:31:56,000 --> 02:31:57,320
Speaker 5: are not out of their vehicles.

2718
02:31:57,480 --> 02:32:02,959
Speaker 8: No oh, I think the crowd spears order.

2719
02:32:03,520 --> 02:32:05,080
Speaker 11: They might try to give you a sporsal order because

2720
02:32:05,080 --> 02:32:05,880
Speaker 11: there's too many people.

2721
02:32:06,000 --> 02:32:06,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2722
02:32:07,920 --> 02:32:09,280
Speaker 8: I didn't think they would try to fuck with it

2723
02:32:09,320 --> 02:32:11,720
Speaker 8: this soon. I thought they would wait to the tunnel.

2724
02:32:12,680 --> 02:32:15,360
Speaker 8: A small number of police were posted up right before

2725
02:32:15,440 --> 02:32:18,879
Speaker 8: the first bridge on the bike path, roughly about halfway

2726
02:32:18,920 --> 02:32:21,880
Speaker 8: to the tunnel. If they wanted to the crowd could

2727
02:32:21,920 --> 02:32:24,400
Speaker 8: have marched past the police as they were not blocking

2728
02:32:24,440 --> 02:32:27,879
Speaker 8: the path. The two cop cars couldn't even follow behind

2729
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:31,199
Speaker 8: because there was big metal bulgards preventing vehicles from going

2730
02:32:31,200 --> 02:32:34,600
Speaker 8: on the Wooden bridge. But the visible police caused the

2731
02:32:34,600 --> 02:32:35,480
Speaker 8: group to pause.

2732
02:32:35,959 --> 02:32:38,240
Speaker 5: There was that one speech that we need to touch

2733
02:32:38,280 --> 02:32:41,520
Speaker 5: on from that night, and that was the speaker said,

2734
02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:44,280
Speaker 5: in order to win, we have to let go of

2735
02:32:44,320 --> 02:32:48,520
Speaker 5: the idea of losing while looking good. Yeah, And that

2736
02:32:48,720 --> 02:32:51,520
Speaker 5: I think is going to inform whatever the direct action

2737
02:32:51,720 --> 02:32:54,840
Speaker 5: side of things are for the next this next phase

2738
02:32:55,240 --> 02:32:55,960
Speaker 5: of the movement.

2739
02:32:56,920 --> 02:33:00,360
Speaker 8: While paused in front of the police cruisers, the crowd

2740
02:33:00,400 --> 02:33:02,800
Speaker 8: deliberated on what they wanted to do and what they

2741
02:33:02,800 --> 02:33:06,320
Speaker 8: thought they could accomplish. After a few minutes of discussion,

2742
02:33:06,720 --> 02:33:11,160
Speaker 8: they decided that they were not prepared to unnecessarily sacrifice themselves.

2743
02:33:11,959 --> 02:33:14,400
Speaker 8: One of the people from the crowd spoke briefly not

2744
02:33:14,440 --> 02:33:17,640
Speaker 8: only on this decision, but also how it fits into

2745
02:33:17,680 --> 02:33:21,119
Speaker 8: the difficult situation the movement has found itself in. Right now,

2746
02:33:21,760 --> 02:33:23,879
Speaker 8: I'm going to quote a little bit from this impromptu

2747
02:33:23,920 --> 02:33:28,279
Speaker 8: speech quote. We shouldn't come away from this feeling demoralized.

2748
02:33:28,480 --> 02:33:31,360
Speaker 8: We should feel clarity because we believe we set out

2749
02:33:31,400 --> 02:33:35,039
Speaker 8: to participate in a movement to obstruct the construction of

2750
02:33:35,080 --> 02:33:38,840
Speaker 8: a police militarization site, but that is not being allowed

2751
02:33:38,879 --> 02:33:42,240
Speaker 8: to happen. The people we're fighting against believe we are

2752
02:33:42,280 --> 02:33:46,560
Speaker 8: a domestic insurgency. They are treating us like an insurgency.

2753
02:33:46,640 --> 02:33:51,440
Speaker 8: The state is using militaristic language like denying anarchists operating space.

2754
02:33:52,080 --> 02:33:55,160
Speaker 8: And so we're going to great lengths to be safe,

2755
02:33:55,200 --> 02:33:57,280
Speaker 8: to play it safe, and to go slow, and to

2756
02:33:57,360 --> 02:34:01,280
Speaker 8: proceed rationally and defend one another. But we're coming under

2757
02:34:01,400 --> 02:34:06,560
Speaker 8: constant attack everything we do. We're under attack unquote. Just

2758
02:34:06,720 --> 02:34:09,160
Speaker 8: earlier that morning, people were attacked by the state and

2759
02:34:09,240 --> 02:34:12,400
Speaker 8: arrested as they stood on the sidewalk outside of a bank.

2760
02:34:12,959 --> 02:34:16,320
Speaker 8: Those who work to bail activists out of jail are attacked.

2761
02:34:16,760 --> 02:34:19,680
Speaker 8: People doing on the ground jail support are physically attacked

2762
02:34:19,720 --> 02:34:21,120
Speaker 8: and face police intimidation.

2763
02:34:21,760 --> 02:34:22,200
Speaker 2: Quote.

2764
02:34:22,560 --> 02:34:25,119
Speaker 8: We don't want to be engaged in a failing struggle.

2765
02:34:25,480 --> 02:34:28,720
Speaker 8: Our enemy is treating us like terrorists. That's what they're

2766
02:34:28,720 --> 02:34:31,480
Speaker 8: calling us, and that's what they believe we are. It's

2767
02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:35,160
Speaker 8: not just a rhetorical trick. That's how they're treating the movement.

2768
02:34:35,760 --> 02:34:37,960
Speaker 8: And so we have to figure out how we're gonna win,

2769
02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:41,600
Speaker 8: because we intend to win, but you can't just only

2770
02:34:41,680 --> 02:34:44,959
Speaker 8: defend yourself. The safest thing for us to do is

2771
02:34:45,000 --> 02:34:47,320
Speaker 8: to never go to a protest about this movement. Again,

2772
02:34:47,720 --> 02:34:51,279
Speaker 8: if our top priority is safety, everyone who's not currently

2773
02:34:51,360 --> 02:34:54,120
Speaker 8: facing charges should move away, should not go to events

2774
02:34:54,200 --> 02:34:57,840
Speaker 8: or actions. But if we have a higher priority than

2775
02:34:57,879 --> 02:35:00,800
Speaker 8: safety alone, we're gonna have to figure out what we're

2776
02:35:00,840 --> 02:35:03,520
Speaker 8: going to do to achieve that, which is going to

2777
02:35:03,560 --> 02:35:06,400
Speaker 8: require going on the offense when we're able and how

2778
02:35:06,400 --> 02:35:10,280
Speaker 8: we're able. This movement has been very creative, and we're

2779
02:35:10,320 --> 02:35:13,039
Speaker 8: going to have to continue to be more and more creative,

2780
02:35:13,480 --> 02:35:15,320
Speaker 8: and we're going to have to continue to deploy all

2781
02:35:15,320 --> 02:35:19,640
Speaker 8: available means in order to have this kind of offensive, victorious,

2782
02:35:19,800 --> 02:35:23,400
Speaker 8: and strong movement that we all deserve when we fight,

2783
02:35:23,720 --> 02:35:27,040
Speaker 8: when we attack the enemy, when we have our offensive actions,

2784
02:35:27,280 --> 02:35:29,720
Speaker 8: we have to follow through with them. We have to

2785
02:35:29,800 --> 02:35:32,200
Speaker 8: go all the way with them. We have to be

2786
02:35:32,240 --> 02:35:35,280
Speaker 8: willing to believe in ourselves to believe that we can win.

2787
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:38,080
Speaker 8: And so I believe that we are going to win

2788
02:35:38,120 --> 02:35:40,800
Speaker 8: this movement, and I think you guys believe that we're

2789
02:35:40,800 --> 02:35:43,480
Speaker 8: going to win this movement. But that's going to require

2790
02:35:43,560 --> 02:35:46,720
Speaker 8: us to abandon the idea of looking good while losing.

2791
02:35:47,280 --> 02:35:50,760
Speaker 8: We can't look good losing. So are we going to

2792
02:35:50,959 --> 02:35:53,560
Speaker 8: look good losing or are we going to win?

2793
02:35:54,160 --> 02:35:54,720
Speaker 2: Unquote?

2794
02:35:55,040 --> 02:35:56,160
Speaker 11: All right, it is eight o'clock.

2795
02:35:56,240 --> 02:35:59,400
Speaker 8: The crowd sat in the middle of the trail behind

2796
02:35:59,760 --> 02:36:03,760
Speaker 8: the first bridge, where two decap County vehicles are parked.

2797
02:36:04,320 --> 02:36:06,440
Speaker 8: They deliberated for a little bit, and then a few

2798
02:36:06,440 --> 02:36:09,400
Speaker 8: people spoke, and now the crowd has turned around at

2799
02:36:09,400 --> 02:36:11,760
Speaker 8: a marching back to Greshiam Park, marching back.

2800
02:36:11,640 --> 02:36:15,200
Speaker 5: No arrests. We do have two helicopters now hanging out

2801
02:36:15,360 --> 02:36:16,840
Speaker 5: over us. That's my favorite thing.

2802
02:36:16,720 --> 02:36:17,200
Speaker 6: In the world.

2803
02:36:18,040 --> 02:36:20,440
Speaker 8: And a lot of other decav on the ground and

2804
02:36:20,520 --> 02:36:22,960
Speaker 8: other parts of the bike path in the trails.

2805
02:36:23,680 --> 02:36:26,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, they would have walked directly into what looked like

2806
02:36:26,800 --> 02:36:31,560
Speaker 5: a full swat team above the bridge. So they made

2807
02:36:31,600 --> 02:36:34,080
Speaker 5: the right choice, is what it seems like to me.

2808
02:36:35,240 --> 02:36:38,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, And they talked about their intentionality of the decision,

2809
02:36:38,360 --> 02:36:43,199
Speaker 8: and it's how it's important to not just keep losing

2810
02:36:43,200 --> 02:36:45,840
Speaker 8: while trying to look cool and throw yourself out a

2811
02:36:45,879 --> 02:36:47,200
Speaker 8: line of police.

2812
02:36:48,120 --> 02:36:51,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that hopefully, I mean, what does that look

2813
02:36:51,959 --> 02:36:54,760
Speaker 5: like in practice? I guess we'll see you over the

2814
02:36:54,760 --> 02:36:55,920
Speaker 5: next few months.

2815
02:36:55,920 --> 02:36:59,560
Speaker 8: Three days, three days to two months, Yeah.

2816
02:36:58,879 --> 02:37:01,680
Speaker 5: Three days, It several months. But it does sound like

2817
02:37:01,800 --> 02:37:07,920
Speaker 5: there's some attempt now at directionality. That wasn't I wasn't

2818
02:37:07,959 --> 02:37:09,640
Speaker 5: sing yeah until.

2819
02:37:10,400 --> 02:37:12,400
Speaker 8: This is the exact same March people tried to do

2820
02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:15,800
Speaker 8: back in March, and they did it, and they're trying

2821
02:37:15,800 --> 02:37:16,840
Speaker 8: to do it here again in June.

2822
02:37:17,200 --> 02:37:18,360
Speaker 11: And it doesn't work.

2823
02:37:18,400 --> 02:37:18,760
Speaker 5: It didn't.

2824
02:37:18,840 --> 02:37:20,400
Speaker 11: It doesn't work the first time.

2825
02:37:20,440 --> 02:37:20,880
Speaker 5: It doesn't work.

2826
02:37:21,000 --> 02:37:22,440
Speaker 11: It worked the first time, it does mean the second time.

2827
02:37:22,440 --> 02:37:23,560
Speaker 11: So now it's time to change something.

2828
02:37:25,560 --> 02:37:26,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2829
02:37:26,280 --> 02:37:28,560
Speaker 8: On the walk back to Gresham Park, we got clear

2830
02:37:28,600 --> 02:37:31,600
Speaker 8: photos of the amount of riot police waiting for us

2831
02:37:31,640 --> 02:37:34,400
Speaker 8: at the tunnel, and it was a great many.

2832
02:37:34,680 --> 02:37:35,480
Speaker 11: Oh yeah, there is a lot.

2833
02:37:35,760 --> 02:37:38,680
Speaker 5: That's a lot of a lot of a lot of riot.

2834
02:37:39,040 --> 02:37:39,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2835
02:37:39,240 --> 02:37:41,359
Speaker 11: And that was when of the vans posted above the tunnel.

2836
02:37:41,440 --> 02:37:45,600
Speaker 5: Yeah. So that trailer, Yeah, that's what they bring all

2837
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:46,360
Speaker 5: their riots shields in.

2838
02:37:46,680 --> 02:37:46,800
Speaker 7: OK.

2839
02:37:48,400 --> 02:37:49,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, that that would have sucked.

2840
02:37:50,280 --> 02:37:51,560
Speaker 5: That would not have been fun.

2841
02:37:51,680 --> 02:37:53,039
Speaker 11: No, that would have gone very poorly.

2842
02:37:53,160 --> 02:37:55,879
Speaker 5: Would have been tear gas though, and I do miss

2843
02:37:55,920 --> 02:37:56,720
Speaker 5: being tear gas.

2844
02:37:56,760 --> 02:37:58,600
Speaker 11: I can like spray with pepper spray.

2845
02:37:58,440 --> 02:38:00,879
Speaker 5: If you want. It's not the same as tears I guess.

2846
02:38:00,760 --> 02:38:01,760
Speaker 11: Pretty right now if you want.

2847
02:38:02,280 --> 02:38:06,240
Speaker 8: Matt ultimately declined to be pepper sprayed. Tortia Guita's mother,

2848
02:38:06,360 --> 02:38:10,280
Speaker 8: Belquise Tearran, came to Gresham Park to also join the march.

2849
02:38:10,959 --> 02:38:12,760
Speaker 5: So what we had was one hundred and fifty people

2850
02:38:13,480 --> 02:38:17,480
Speaker 5: in Belquist turn and I think that that, yeah, plays

2851
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:19,840
Speaker 5: a role in how this goes on.

2852
02:38:19,920 --> 02:38:22,119
Speaker 11: No having belle Keise.

2853
02:38:23,400 --> 02:38:26,200
Speaker 8: Very like visibly present, like walking up to everybody there

2854
02:38:26,200 --> 02:38:29,280
Speaker 8: and greeting them. Just having her presence there affects what

2855
02:38:29,320 --> 02:38:32,480
Speaker 8: people want to do, and it reminds you of what's

2856
02:38:32,560 --> 02:38:36,760
Speaker 8: actually like the actual stakes at hand, so you're caring

2857
02:38:36,760 --> 02:38:40,920
Speaker 8: for everyone around you in a much more like conscious capacity.

2858
02:38:41,240 --> 02:38:45,000
Speaker 8: Belcise spoke, a few other people spoke, and then they

2859
02:38:45,040 --> 02:38:47,400
Speaker 8: turned around and headed back to Gresham and that was

2860
02:38:47,600 --> 02:38:49,000
Speaker 8: the decision that was.

2861
02:38:48,920 --> 02:38:52,240
Speaker 11: Made, and no one was hurt, no one was arrested.

2862
02:38:52,560 --> 02:38:55,800
Speaker 8: People got back to Gresham Park, some people had ice cream.

2863
02:38:57,080 --> 02:38:59,080
Speaker 5: Two people in particular had ice cream, and they were

2864
02:38:59,160 --> 02:39:02,400
Speaker 5: very happy about it. It definitely wasn't maybe it was us.

2865
02:39:03,480 --> 02:39:04,720
Speaker 11: Other people also had ice cream.

2866
02:39:04,760 --> 02:39:06,320
Speaker 5: Other people did have ice cream. I don't think they

2867
02:39:06,440 --> 02:39:07,720
Speaker 5: were quite as excited.

2868
02:39:09,280 --> 02:39:11,640
Speaker 8: Throughout the week, you could tell that people were really

2869
02:39:11,680 --> 02:39:14,840
Speaker 8: wanting to be back in the forest and Willani People's Park.

2870
02:39:15,440 --> 02:39:19,040
Speaker 8: People made do gathering at Brownwood Park, but it wasn't

2871
02:39:19,080 --> 02:39:22,440
Speaker 8: the same. There was an undeniable distance between where people

2872
02:39:22,440 --> 02:39:25,080
Speaker 8: were gathered this week of action and the sight of

2873
02:39:25,120 --> 02:39:28,880
Speaker 8: all the previous battles in the Wilani. The fact that

2874
02:39:28,920 --> 02:39:31,560
Speaker 8: so much of the forest had already been destroyed loomed

2875
02:39:31,600 --> 02:39:34,640
Speaker 8: heavily over the week, and that's something that people are

2876
02:39:34,720 --> 02:39:38,320
Speaker 8: still processing and are still comprehending. Another big aspect of

2877
02:39:38,320 --> 02:39:39,959
Speaker 8: the week, like this is this is the first week

2878
02:39:40,000 --> 02:39:41,800
Speaker 8: of action where people haven't gone in the gone in

2879
02:39:41,879 --> 02:39:42,879
Speaker 8: the Wilani, Like.

2880
02:39:43,640 --> 02:39:46,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no action, which feels weird, well, we should

2881
02:39:46,840 --> 02:39:52,720
Speaker 5: say in the triangle because you know, but like the site.

2882
02:39:52,520 --> 02:39:55,320
Speaker 8: Like this is the first time that people haven't been

2883
02:39:55,560 --> 02:39:59,840
Speaker 8: like in the forest, and that's a new thing to navigate,

2884
02:39:59,840 --> 02:40:02,760
Speaker 8: that a new feeling to navigate, Like there's there's a

2885
02:40:02,800 --> 02:40:04,240
Speaker 8: different there's a different.

2886
02:40:03,959 --> 02:40:05,280
Speaker 5: Sense multiple chances.

2887
02:40:05,360 --> 02:40:07,680
Speaker 8: There's multiple chance being like not one lead, don't cut

2888
02:40:07,720 --> 02:40:10,160
Speaker 8: down the trees and like the trees are gone, like

2889
02:40:10,200 --> 02:40:13,520
Speaker 8: it's the site's been cleared, and I think people are

2890
02:40:13,560 --> 02:40:16,080
Speaker 8: still catching up to that and like relight, Like it's

2891
02:40:16,120 --> 02:40:19,480
Speaker 8: still something that people are processing and they're gonna have

2892
02:40:19,480 --> 02:40:21,280
Speaker 8: to process that if they want to like continue, like

2893
02:40:21,320 --> 02:40:23,120
Speaker 8: they have to like look at the situation being like

2894
02:40:23,800 --> 02:40:26,280
Speaker 8: this is we have to accept what has happened. Then

2895
02:40:26,280 --> 02:40:28,920
Speaker 8: we can choose what's to do, because you can't.

2896
02:40:28,680 --> 02:40:30,920
Speaker 5: Act as can't deny what the reality is.

2897
02:40:31,080 --> 02:40:32,879
Speaker 8: No, and you can't act as if the trees are

2898
02:40:32,920 --> 02:40:35,320
Speaker 8: still there, because that's going to change the type of

2899
02:40:35,360 --> 02:40:37,119
Speaker 8: the types of like actions you do, Like.

2900
02:40:37,520 --> 02:40:39,760
Speaker 11: You can't tree set in the trees.

2901
02:40:40,400 --> 02:40:43,040
Speaker 8: It's it's changing the actual actions people are going to

2902
02:40:43,120 --> 02:40:45,440
Speaker 8: take to try to stop copsitting. Yeah, I think the

2903
02:40:45,640 --> 02:40:50,160
Speaker 8: Wednesday action almost needed to happen. So many people still

2904
02:40:50,240 --> 02:40:53,720
Speaker 8: dream about what if we could reoccupy Wallawi. People are

2905
02:40:53,920 --> 02:40:57,000
Speaker 8: still caught in that headspace because they got so used

2906
02:40:57,000 --> 02:40:59,360
Speaker 8: to that over the course of almost two years. So

2907
02:40:59,640 --> 02:41:01,800
Speaker 8: it never there was going to be an attempt where

2908
02:41:01,800 --> 02:41:04,920
Speaker 8: a few hundred people try to re enter Wilani People's Park.

2909
02:41:05,840 --> 02:41:09,199
Speaker 8: They're almost needed to be an attempt just to see

2910
02:41:09,320 --> 02:41:12,600
Speaker 8: what would happen. And we saw what would happen, and

2911
02:41:12,680 --> 02:41:16,160
Speaker 8: now people can use that action as reference when making

2912
02:41:16,240 --> 02:41:20,400
Speaker 8: future plans and decisions about actions, because you can point

2913
02:41:20,480 --> 02:41:23,320
Speaker 8: back to this and demonstrate what the police response will

2914
02:41:23,400 --> 02:41:27,240
Speaker 8: be when people march to Wolani. Massive amounts of SWAT

2915
02:41:27,560 --> 02:41:30,760
Speaker 8: riot police waiting for you, SWAT mobile command centers, heavily

2916
02:41:30,879 --> 02:41:34,600
Speaker 8: armed police estanged on roads, overpasses, entrances, and all around

2917
02:41:34,640 --> 02:41:37,440
Speaker 8: the forest specifically waiting for people to try to cross

2918
02:41:37,480 --> 02:41:41,440
Speaker 8: over or through the tunnel. So now people know what

2919
02:41:41,520 --> 02:41:44,200
Speaker 8: will happen if they try and do the same thing again.

2920
02:41:45,160 --> 02:41:47,640
Speaker 8: In some ways, it kind of needed to not just

2921
02:41:47,800 --> 02:41:51,960
Speaker 8: be theoretical speculation, but actually happen so that people can

2922
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:55,480
Speaker 8: now truly allow themselves to evolve, so that you don't

2923
02:41:55,520 --> 02:41:58,480
Speaker 8: have this question in the back of your head, because

2924
02:41:58,640 --> 02:42:01,120
Speaker 8: now that question has been answered, you would be throwing

2925
02:42:01,160 --> 02:42:04,000
Speaker 8: yourself at a wall of swat and riot gear. And

2926
02:42:04,200 --> 02:42:07,520
Speaker 8: now everyone can let themselves evolve and start figuring out

2927
02:42:07,879 --> 02:42:12,720
Speaker 8: what new things can be fostered and imagined. We'll hear

2928
02:42:12,800 --> 02:42:16,040
Speaker 8: more about those evolutions and conclude my coverage of the

2929
02:42:16,080 --> 02:42:16,800
Speaker 8: week of action.

2930
02:42:17,080 --> 02:42:18,359
Speaker 11: In the next episode.

2931
02:42:19,000 --> 02:42:32,240
Speaker 8: See you on the other side, Welcome back to it

2932
02:42:32,280 --> 02:42:35,240
Speaker 8: could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This is part two

2933
02:42:35,360 --> 02:42:38,000
Speaker 8: of my mini series about what's been happening this summer

2934
02:42:38,320 --> 02:42:42,040
Speaker 8: in Atlanta to stop cop City. Last episode, we left

2935
02:42:42,080 --> 02:42:45,320
Speaker 8: off with the attempted march from Gresham Park to Entrenchman

2936
02:42:45,360 --> 02:42:48,760
Speaker 8: Creek Park, which some might say was a disappointment, but

2937
02:42:49,000 --> 02:42:52,160
Speaker 8: it also gave everyone more clarity about the current state

2938
02:42:52,320 --> 02:42:55,360
Speaker 8: of these types of direct action marches in Atlanta and

2939
02:42:55,480 --> 02:42:59,680
Speaker 8: the necessity for evolution. The main event on Thursday, June

2940
02:42:59,720 --> 02:43:02,960
Speaker 8: twenty ninth was a protest outside the Home Depot in

2941
02:43:03,080 --> 02:43:07,200
Speaker 8: the upscale retail district off of Ponce de Leon Avenue.

2942
02:43:07,840 --> 02:43:11,240
Speaker 8: Home Depot is one of the Atlanta Police Foundation's financial backers.

2943
02:43:11,720 --> 02:43:13,680
Speaker 5: There had been a rumor that Home Depot was was

2944
02:43:13,720 --> 02:43:16,280
Speaker 5: gonna be close earlier in the day. I got there

2945
02:43:16,360 --> 02:43:19,320
Speaker 5: four thirty. It wasn't closed, so I didn't see any signage.

2946
02:43:19,840 --> 02:43:22,280
Speaker 5: So I went and parked my car and came back

2947
02:43:23,480 --> 02:43:26,400
Speaker 5: and like, I think I got there for fifty and

2948
02:43:26,959 --> 02:43:29,400
Speaker 5: people were starting to line up along the road, like, uh,

2949
02:43:29,560 --> 02:43:32,640
Speaker 5: there's a Starbucks. And they were lining up along Ponce

2950
02:43:32,760 --> 02:43:36,240
Speaker 5: next to the Starbucks, and you know, I'm I'm talking

2951
02:43:36,280 --> 02:43:39,760
Speaker 5: to them watching this. They're chanting, they're they're pulling out banners,

2952
02:43:39,840 --> 02:43:44,040
Speaker 5: and we get a call that they are arresting Lorraine Fontana. So,

2953
02:43:44,200 --> 02:43:47,400
Speaker 5: Lorraine Fontana is a seventy six year old activist in Atlanta,

2954
02:43:48,160 --> 02:43:52,040
Speaker 5: and she's great like she she pops up everywhere. She's

2955
02:43:52,240 --> 02:43:56,400
Speaker 5: beloved by everyone. And so we get this call that

2956
02:43:56,560 --> 02:44:02,680
Speaker 5: Lorraine Fontana is being arrested, and uh, I bolts as

2957
02:44:03,080 --> 02:44:04,640
Speaker 5: far as my little legs will take me in. Then

2958
02:44:04,680 --> 02:44:06,240
Speaker 5: I have to stop and catch my breath, like right

2959
02:44:06,280 --> 02:44:09,199
Speaker 5: before I get there. But Lorraine and one other person

2960
02:44:09,280 --> 02:44:13,160
Speaker 5: were arrested in the parking lot right outside the home depot.

2961
02:44:13,400 --> 02:44:15,119
Speaker 13: It's a store called.

2962
02:44:14,879 --> 02:44:17,440
Speaker 14: Me called four Prays here, and they did not want

2963
02:44:17,600 --> 02:44:20,640
Speaker 14: anybody protests in the store. When they start reading out

2964
02:44:20,800 --> 02:44:23,600
Speaker 14: the layer, I asked them to boy handed and said

2965
02:44:23,640 --> 02:44:26,480
Speaker 14: the practices at that time. I'll also usually the look

2966
02:44:26,520 --> 02:44:29,360
Speaker 14: from a trust past warning telling them their how people

2967
02:44:29,520 --> 02:44:32,160
Speaker 14: cannot want their faces or inside the store.

2968
02:44:32,840 --> 02:44:36,119
Speaker 8: After protesters left the store, they stood by a corner

2969
02:44:36,240 --> 02:44:39,120
Speaker 8: in the parking lot to holding signs, where they were

2970
02:44:39,200 --> 02:44:42,880
Speaker 8: then approached by APD officers who then arrested two people

2971
02:44:43,000 --> 02:44:43,760
Speaker 8: without warning.

2972
02:44:44,280 --> 02:44:49,200
Speaker 5: It does kind of just show APD like basically doing

2973
02:44:49,320 --> 02:44:51,800
Speaker 5: exactly what they would with anyone, except in this case

2974
02:44:51,840 --> 02:44:55,879
Speaker 5: it's the seventy six year old woman who's like five

2975
02:44:56,600 --> 02:44:58,200
Speaker 5: or four eleven or something like that.

2976
02:44:58,560 --> 02:45:02,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it was a lot of

2977
02:45:02,040 --> 02:45:06,440
Speaker 8: people were like surprised that this happened, Like how could.

2978
02:45:06,240 --> 02:45:06,840
Speaker 5: The police do this?

2979
02:45:07,000 --> 02:45:09,760
Speaker 8: I think others were like not as surprised, be like, no,

2980
02:45:09,840 --> 02:45:13,080
Speaker 8: it's the APD. They like it was a good demonstration

2981
02:45:13,400 --> 02:45:16,240
Speaker 8: for people being like showing that they do not care.

2982
02:45:16,879 --> 02:45:17,879
Speaker 11: They don't really care if you're a.

2983
02:45:17,840 --> 02:45:21,160
Speaker 8: Seventy seven year old woman or if you're a nineteen

2984
02:45:21,240 --> 02:45:24,320
Speaker 8: year old eco terrorist, they're gonna treat you roughly the same.

2985
02:45:24,680 --> 02:45:24,880
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2986
02:45:25,520 --> 02:45:29,080
Speaker 8: After Lorraine's arrest, more and more people began showing up

2987
02:45:29,120 --> 02:45:32,600
Speaker 8: across the street from home Depot calling for their divestment

2988
02:45:32,760 --> 02:45:34,400
Speaker 8: from the Atlanta Police Foundation.

2989
02:45:35,120 --> 02:45:38,360
Speaker 5: It got up to like thirty maybe forty people mostly

2990
02:45:38,440 --> 02:45:41,360
Speaker 5: just like chanting on the sidewalks sidewalk, but then they

2991
02:45:41,400 --> 02:45:44,800
Speaker 5: started to like walk back and forth when the crosswalk

2992
02:45:45,040 --> 02:45:48,680
Speaker 5: was like there, yeah, and they were pushing the limit,

2993
02:45:48,920 --> 02:45:51,560
Speaker 5: like seeing what they could get. But there was also

2994
02:45:51,720 --> 02:45:54,600
Speaker 5: my favorite part was the APD officer who was sitting

2995
02:45:54,680 --> 02:46:00,880
Speaker 5: in his I'm sorry. My favorite part was, fuck, I

2996
02:46:00,959 --> 02:46:03,240
Speaker 5: gotta do this about breaking down in the middle.

2997
02:46:04,959 --> 02:46:07,280
Speaker 11: I did hear a little bit about this, all right?

2998
02:46:07,320 --> 02:46:10,480
Speaker 5: Take three, Take three? Uh, there was the APD officer

2999
02:46:10,560 --> 02:46:13,120
Speaker 5: that was sitting in his Ford Explorer on Ponts and

3000
02:46:13,920 --> 02:46:16,120
Speaker 5: at one point he calls out on his you know,

3001
02:46:16,400 --> 02:46:19,240
Speaker 5: loud speaker, I'm not an idiot. I swear I'm not

3002
02:46:19,360 --> 02:46:22,480
Speaker 5: an idiot. While he's backing up on Ponts with his

3003
02:46:22,680 --> 02:46:24,959
Speaker 5: lights on, just like what are you doing?

3004
02:46:30,680 --> 02:46:32,000
Speaker 11: People are asking a lot of questions.

3005
02:46:32,000 --> 02:46:35,560
Speaker 2: They are already answered, I'm on an idiots shirt.

3006
02:46:36,480 --> 02:46:40,280
Speaker 5: Oh it was great. So I caught like the briefest

3007
02:46:40,400 --> 02:46:43,400
Speaker 5: snippet of that audio, thankfully. That's funny.

3008
02:46:44,160 --> 02:46:47,520
Speaker 8: On Thursday night, after the Home Depot rally, there was

3009
02:46:47,560 --> 02:46:50,960
Speaker 8: a jail vigil around ten pm for Lorraine at the

3010
02:46:51,160 --> 02:46:53,119
Speaker 8: Rice Street Fulton County Jail.

3011
02:46:53,600 --> 02:46:57,360
Speaker 5: So there are two jails. There's Adventas City Detention Center

3012
02:46:57,600 --> 02:47:00,240
Speaker 5: and then there's Fulton County Jail, which we just Rice

3013
02:47:00,240 --> 02:47:04,879
Speaker 5: Street because it's off off Rice Street. Okay, so when

3014
02:47:04,920 --> 02:47:08,400
Speaker 5: you get charged with criminal trespassed, it's like a misdemeanor charge,

3015
02:47:08,560 --> 02:47:11,200
Speaker 5: and typically you would go to Atlantic City Detention Center,

3016
02:47:11,280 --> 02:47:15,160
Speaker 5: which still a jail is still terrible, but relatively like better. Okay,

3017
02:47:15,640 --> 02:47:20,480
Speaker 5: Fulton County Jail is you know atrocious it is, you

3018
02:47:20,560 --> 02:47:24,560
Speaker 5: know Leshawan Thompson. Of course that the guy who was

3019
02:47:24,600 --> 02:47:28,160
Speaker 5: eaten alive in his in his cell by bugs because

3020
02:47:28,200 --> 02:47:30,960
Speaker 5: of neglect. That is Rice Street Jail. That's the Fulton

3021
02:47:31,000 --> 02:47:34,200
Speaker 5: County Jail. That's the Fulton County Jail. So we get

3022
02:47:34,240 --> 02:47:37,760
Speaker 5: worried that Lorraine is at Fulton County Jail and not ACDC,

3023
02:47:38,000 --> 02:47:43,720
Speaker 5: which is pretty striking. So everybody goes down to do

3024
02:47:43,840 --> 02:47:46,760
Speaker 5: a jail vigil and noise demo for context.

3025
02:47:47,280 --> 02:47:50,800
Speaker 8: Last September, Lashawan Thompson, a thirty five year old man,

3026
02:47:51,040 --> 02:47:54,200
Speaker 8: was found dead after spending three months in an infested

3027
02:47:54,320 --> 02:47:58,040
Speaker 8: Fulton County Jail psychiatric cell. His body was covered in

3028
02:47:58,200 --> 02:48:02,360
Speaker 8: a thousand bug bites and were found in his mouth, ears, nose,

3029
02:48:02,520 --> 02:48:06,440
Speaker 8: and all across his body. Such inhumane incidents are not

3030
02:48:06,600 --> 02:48:10,400
Speaker 8: in irregularity in Fulton County Jail. Just earlier this month,

3031
02:48:10,480 --> 02:48:13,080
Speaker 8: a thirty five year old named Christopher Smith died in

3032
02:48:13,160 --> 02:48:16,440
Speaker 8: Fulton County Jail. He had been held in custody since

3033
02:48:16,520 --> 02:48:21,680
Speaker 8: October sixth, twenty nineteen, without bond on several unspecified felony

3034
02:48:21,800 --> 02:48:25,800
Speaker 8: and misdemeanor charges. According to the County Sheriff's Office, last month,

3035
02:48:25,840 --> 02:48:28,560
Speaker 8: a nineteen year old girl died in Fulton County custody

3036
02:48:28,720 --> 02:48:32,680
Speaker 8: after being arrested on a minor misdemeanor charge. This past

3037
02:48:32,800 --> 02:48:35,920
Speaker 8: year alone, six people have died in the Fulton County

3038
02:48:36,000 --> 02:48:40,359
Speaker 8: jail system. People in Atlanta have been doing jail vigils

3039
02:48:40,400 --> 02:48:42,760
Speaker 8: and noise demos for years and it's never really been

3040
02:48:42,800 --> 02:48:45,640
Speaker 8: a problem. Cops might tell people to move off to

3041
02:48:45,680 --> 02:48:47,840
Speaker 8: the side if the crowd gets to a certain size,

3042
02:48:48,400 --> 02:48:51,320
Speaker 8: but they have typically gone on without issue. But this

3043
02:48:51,480 --> 02:48:54,680
Speaker 8: time Fulton County deputies came out and declared that people

3044
02:48:54,760 --> 02:48:58,039
Speaker 8: are not allowed to protest outside the jail and ordered

3045
02:48:58,080 --> 02:49:01,120
Speaker 8: everyone to completely leave the parking and go all the

3046
02:49:01,160 --> 02:49:03,720
Speaker 8: way to the other side of this big hill off

3047
02:49:03,800 --> 02:49:07,359
Speaker 8: of Rice Street to jail property in order to continue protesting,

3048
02:49:08,200 --> 02:49:11,880
Speaker 8: which no one was really keen on doing, so this

3049
02:49:12,160 --> 02:49:13,640
Speaker 8: kind of game of chicken began.

3050
02:49:14,600 --> 02:49:18,320
Speaker 5: They eventually they pull on a bunch more sheriff's deputies

3051
02:49:18,520 --> 02:49:21,160
Speaker 5: and threatened arrest. So people start making their way up

3052
02:49:21,200 --> 02:49:25,520
Speaker 5: the hill linking arms, and they get to the top

3053
02:49:25,560 --> 02:49:27,480
Speaker 5: of the hill and they're met with another group of

3054
02:49:27,520 --> 02:49:31,080
Speaker 5: protesters who had tried to come down, but they were

3055
02:49:31,080 --> 02:49:32,440
Speaker 5: stopped by police at the top of the hill. So

3056
02:49:32,560 --> 02:49:36,000
Speaker 5: now the crowd size like essentially doubled. Yeah, and the

3057
02:49:36,320 --> 02:49:39,160
Speaker 5: energy just goes through the roof. You know, both sides

3058
02:49:39,200 --> 02:49:44,240
Speaker 5: are just going back and forth. This This deputy is

3059
02:49:44,320 --> 02:49:48,520
Speaker 5: like completely overmatched, doesn't really They didn't seem like Fulton

3060
02:49:48,560 --> 02:49:51,840
Speaker 5: County had a plan. You know, usually APD or the

3061
02:49:51,920 --> 02:49:54,800
Speaker 5: cat they have some sort of protest planned. Fulton was

3062
02:49:54,879 --> 02:49:57,560
Speaker 5: flying by the seat of their pants. And so all

3063
02:49:57,600 --> 02:50:00,400
Speaker 5: of our cars were down at the bottom with the hill.

3064
02:50:00,440 --> 02:50:02,880
Speaker 5: They were back in the Rice Street parking lot. And

3065
02:50:02,959 --> 02:50:06,400
Speaker 5: this this becomes like an issue because some of the

3066
02:50:06,440 --> 02:50:09,520
Speaker 5: protesters cars are there, all of the media cars are there,

3067
02:50:09,800 --> 02:50:14,320
Speaker 5: like down at the bottom of this hill, and they're

3068
02:50:14,400 --> 02:50:17,480
Speaker 5: not letting anyone go down there. And this woman shows

3069
02:50:17,560 --> 02:50:19,959
Speaker 5: up to like put I think money on her son's

3070
02:50:20,000 --> 02:50:22,480
Speaker 5: commissary car and they don't let her. Now she's like

3071
02:50:22,560 --> 02:50:27,200
Speaker 5: they're just shutting down jail rage aloud, Yeah exactly. So

3072
02:50:29,720 --> 02:50:32,040
Speaker 5: they finally first they're like we're gonna let you go

3073
02:50:32,120 --> 02:50:35,120
Speaker 5: down one by one, and everyone's like hell no, like

3074
02:50:35,600 --> 02:50:37,240
Speaker 5: we are not trusting you.

3075
02:50:37,440 --> 02:50:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, sure, sure, buddy, let's go.

3076
02:50:40,200 --> 02:50:46,160
Speaker 8: Let's isolate, isolated move through this police fortress in an isolated.

3077
02:50:48,480 --> 02:50:50,240
Speaker 5: Uh So then they're like, okay, you can go as

3078
02:50:50,240 --> 02:50:52,280
Speaker 5: a group. Yeah, okay, as long as you have your

3079
02:50:52,360 --> 02:50:53,640
Speaker 5: vehicles down there, you can go as a group. So

3080
02:50:53,720 --> 02:50:55,480
Speaker 5: they slowly start to make their way down.

3081
02:50:55,760 --> 02:50:59,000
Speaker 10: They do not see in the next five minutes we

3082
02:50:59,080 --> 02:50:59,360
Speaker 10: want to.

3083
02:50:59,320 --> 02:51:02,520
Speaker 5: Start up to do They get all the way to

3084
02:51:02,520 --> 02:51:04,800
Speaker 5: the bottom hill. They're in the parking lot and just

3085
02:51:04,920 --> 02:51:06,800
Speaker 5: like on the edge of where the cars are, and

3086
02:51:06,879 --> 02:51:10,720
Speaker 5: they kind of stop moving and the Shaff's deputy is like, yeah,

3087
02:51:10,760 --> 02:51:13,000
Speaker 5: I gotta keep moving, and so they start moving again

3088
02:51:13,160 --> 02:51:16,880
Speaker 5: and then stop again, and then the shriffs deputy says,

3089
02:51:16,920 --> 02:51:21,000
Speaker 5: all right, get them, and so then the deputy start

3090
02:51:21,080 --> 02:51:23,960
Speaker 5: moving in to make a rest and quickly, you know this,

3091
02:51:24,240 --> 02:51:27,480
Speaker 5: this march kind of becomes this backward moving thing. Yeah

3092
02:51:28,080 --> 02:51:30,879
Speaker 5: I can't see that. I'm moving my hands to Showcarrison,

3093
02:51:31,040 --> 02:51:34,600
Speaker 5: but it becomes this backward moving thing up up the hill.

3094
02:51:35,320 --> 02:51:36,200
Speaker 5: That's the bottom line.

3095
02:51:36,440 --> 02:51:40,120
Speaker 2: You in the street and we will be taking in fush,

3096
02:51:40,560 --> 02:51:42,160
Speaker 2: Get out the street, Get.

3097
02:51:42,040 --> 02:51:42,520
Speaker 9: Out the street.

3098
02:51:44,720 --> 02:51:47,640
Speaker 8: The crowd was able to leave before anyone was detained,

3099
02:51:48,000 --> 02:51:51,480
Speaker 8: but it was a quite tense situation. The sort of

3100
02:51:51,560 --> 02:51:54,119
Speaker 8: dynamic we saw at the jail vigil and home Depot

3101
02:51:54,200 --> 02:51:57,840
Speaker 8: protest led directly into the next event on Friday morning,

3102
02:51:58,280 --> 02:52:01,879
Speaker 8: a previously announced second pro test outside of Cadence Bank

3103
02:52:02,000 --> 02:52:05,360
Speaker 8: in Midtown calling on Cadence Bank to cancel the Atlanta

3104
02:52:05,400 --> 02:52:09,160
Speaker 8: Police Foundation's twenty million dollar construction loan. All right, people

3105
02:52:09,280 --> 02:52:12,760
Speaker 8: had a protest on Friday morning at Cadence Bank in

3106
02:52:12,840 --> 02:52:13,800
Speaker 8: Midtown Atlanta.

3107
02:52:14,520 --> 02:52:15,440
Speaker 11: There's maybe like.

3108
02:52:17,320 --> 02:52:22,680
Speaker 8: Around a dozen people here, uh, canting outside of the building.

3109
02:52:23,200 --> 02:52:27,600
Speaker 8: Also about a dozen APD officers walking walking down from

3110
02:52:27,680 --> 02:52:31,880
Speaker 8: up the street, preparing to meet the crowd. They're moving

3111
02:52:31,920 --> 02:52:36,120
Speaker 8: in closer that they're walking in again. People still, I

3112
02:52:36,160 --> 02:52:39,959
Speaker 8: don't think anyone's even touched touched the class door. Most

3113
02:52:39,959 --> 02:52:41,880
Speaker 8: of the people are just standing here on the sidewalk.

3114
02:52:42,600 --> 02:52:44,600
Speaker 5: You know that game you play with your cats where

3115
02:52:45,480 --> 02:52:48,360
Speaker 5: they come at you, but they stop when you're watching them. Yeah,

3116
02:52:48,520 --> 02:52:49,240
Speaker 5: that's the game we're playing.

3117
02:52:49,720 --> 02:52:52,320
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, yea yeah yeah, we turn away. The cops advanced.

3118
02:52:52,360 --> 02:52:54,560
Speaker 8: We like this is also like half of like the

3119
02:52:54,600 --> 02:52:58,360
Speaker 8: lo Ney tunes gags is they're doing a Michelin frog

3120
02:52:58,879 --> 02:53:01,360
Speaker 8: all right, and they're they're now on the King's Bank property.

3121
02:53:03,280 --> 02:53:07,160
Speaker 8: They're starting to advance. Police were yelling at people that

3122
02:53:07,360 --> 02:53:10,360
Speaker 8: they couldn't touch any of the steps leading up to

3123
02:53:10,480 --> 02:53:13,680
Speaker 8: the bank entrance, and that you weren't allowed to lean

3124
02:53:13,800 --> 02:53:18,160
Speaker 8: against any hand rails because the metal poll was bank property.

3125
02:53:19,080 --> 02:53:21,640
Speaker 8: So once again we got this little game of back

3126
02:53:21,720 --> 02:53:24,640
Speaker 8: and forth, except one side has guns and the power

3127
02:53:24,760 --> 02:53:25,440
Speaker 8: to arrest you.

3128
02:53:29,320 --> 02:53:50,119
Speaker 15: Propera this coup said in the crowds trying to incite

3129
02:53:50,120 --> 02:53:50,560
Speaker 15: a riot.

3130
02:53:51,120 --> 02:53:53,160
Speaker 5: It feels very much like what you saw I guess

3131
02:53:53,200 --> 02:53:56,440
Speaker 5: in Portland. Obviously I wasn't there. There's an object that

3132
02:53:56,520 --> 02:53:58,080
Speaker 5: becomes this sacred goal.

3133
02:53:58,080 --> 02:54:01,520
Speaker 11: And then you're you're battling over the thing because the

3134
02:54:01,680 --> 02:54:02,680
Speaker 11: thing is now been.

3135
02:54:03,440 --> 02:54:07,200
Speaker 5: Given something like me actual physical like presence, and that

3136
02:54:07,400 --> 02:54:08,720
Speaker 5: is the thing that you are now fighting for.

3137
02:54:08,800 --> 02:54:08,840
Speaker 16: It.

3138
02:54:09,360 --> 02:54:11,560
Speaker 2: It becomes a symbolic in front of a building.

3139
02:54:11,760 --> 02:54:14,000
Speaker 5: It don't matter, but the police gave it significent.

3140
02:54:14,080 --> 02:54:16,760
Speaker 8: Because the police turn it into this like symbolic thing,

3141
02:54:16,879 --> 02:54:19,120
Speaker 8: it now means more than it just just being stepped.

3142
02:54:19,200 --> 02:54:22,039
Speaker 5: So there was this camera guy who like kept kind

3143
02:54:22,080 --> 02:54:24,400
Speaker 5: of stepping up and like pushing the envelope.

3144
02:54:24,080 --> 02:54:27,640
Speaker 8: And eventually more activists put one foot on the steps,

3145
02:54:27,720 --> 02:54:29,480
Speaker 8: being like okay, if you're gonna come after us for

3146
02:54:29,600 --> 02:54:32,959
Speaker 8: putting a foot on the bank steps, fine, come at us,

3147
02:54:33,080 --> 02:54:34,600
Speaker 8: like call call the bluff.

3148
02:54:34,720 --> 02:54:34,920
Speaker 11: Yeah.

3149
02:54:35,000 --> 02:54:37,080
Speaker 8: So there was like people yelling at the CoP's face

3150
02:54:37,160 --> 02:54:40,240
Speaker 8: for like forty five minutes, maybe maybe longer.

3151
02:54:40,640 --> 02:54:42,520
Speaker 11: Time always stretches during these sorts of things.

3152
02:54:42,680 --> 02:54:44,040
Speaker 5: It's hard to it's hard to keep it.

3153
02:54:44,400 --> 02:54:46,800
Speaker 8: It's hard to keep a sense of like temporal stability,

3154
02:54:47,320 --> 02:54:49,520
Speaker 8: even just during during weeks of action in general, it's

3155
02:54:49,520 --> 02:54:51,560
Speaker 8: always hard to keep a sense of temporal stability. That's

3156
02:54:51,640 --> 02:54:54,640
Speaker 8: the sense of time warps around. Days blend into each other.

3157
02:54:55,040 --> 02:54:56,600
Speaker 8: A day feels like a week, a week feels like

3158
02:54:56,680 --> 02:55:00,560
Speaker 8: a day. It's it's very it gets very fuzzy, it gets.

3159
02:55:00,560 --> 02:55:03,920
Speaker 5: Incredibly trippy, and you're like yeah, and the exhaustion right,

3160
02:55:04,040 --> 02:55:06,560
Speaker 5: like just no, there's a lot of things.

3161
02:55:06,360 --> 02:55:07,400
Speaker 11: That feed into it.

3162
02:55:07,760 --> 02:55:10,520
Speaker 8: Despite about a dozen people putting their foot on the

3163
02:55:10,640 --> 02:55:14,480
Speaker 8: sacred steps, the police did not decide to arrest anyone

3164
02:55:14,640 --> 02:55:18,199
Speaker 8: at this protest, and after about an hour of disruption,

3165
02:55:18,760 --> 02:55:22,320
Speaker 8: the crowd departed. The week of action ended much like

3166
02:55:22,360 --> 02:55:25,320
Speaker 8: the last one, with the final rally being the youth

3167
02:55:25,440 --> 02:55:29,600
Speaker 8: march back at Brownwood Park. Lorraine just got out on

3168
02:55:29,720 --> 02:55:32,320
Speaker 8: bail and spoke about the jail conditions to the crowd

3169
02:55:32,400 --> 02:55:34,600
Speaker 8: of one hundred or so people gathered in the park

3170
02:55:34,680 --> 02:55:36,240
Speaker 8: on the morning of July first.

3171
02:55:37,000 --> 02:55:40,640
Speaker 17: And I don't want people to forget that our movement

3172
02:55:40,760 --> 02:55:43,480
Speaker 17: is connected with lots of other stone, one of which

3173
02:55:43,600 --> 02:55:45,080
Speaker 17: is prison abolition.

3174
02:55:45,600 --> 02:55:49,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, the idea that are.

3175
02:55:50,120 --> 02:55:54,200
Speaker 17: So quote criminal justice system is such that people get

3176
02:55:54,400 --> 02:55:57,000
Speaker 17: just shoved behind bars. We don't want to see them.

3177
02:55:57,080 --> 02:55:58,520
Speaker 18: We don't care what happens to them.

3178
02:55:59,160 --> 02:56:00,240
Speaker 2: And even if they're not.

3179
02:56:00,560 --> 02:56:02,920
Speaker 17: Hadn't gone to trial yet, and they're in a jail

3180
02:56:03,400 --> 02:56:07,039
Speaker 17: awaiting hearing or awaiting a trial, they're treated like.

3181
02:56:07,120 --> 02:56:10,480
Speaker 7: They're already on the people with at they're a criminal. See,

3182
02:56:10,920 --> 02:56:13,000
Speaker 7: we don't have to care as much about them.

3183
02:56:13,320 --> 02:56:16,760
Speaker 8: They're kind of the other the bad people in Lorraine

3184
02:56:16,840 --> 02:56:19,280
Speaker 8: said that she was in a crowded holding cell with

3185
02:56:19,400 --> 02:56:22,720
Speaker 8: twenty two other women and just a few metal benches,

3186
02:56:23,040 --> 02:56:26,400
Speaker 8: nothing else. This is where nearly two dozen people had

3187
02:56:26,440 --> 02:56:29,320
Speaker 8: to sleep, had to eat, use the bathroom, all in

3188
02:56:29,440 --> 02:56:33,160
Speaker 8: one place for days on end. Women were trying to

3189
02:56:33,480 --> 02:56:36,360
Speaker 8: sit or sleep on either of the hard benches or

3190
02:56:36,440 --> 02:56:40,240
Speaker 8: the floor. Some were attempting to use menstrul pads in

3191
02:56:40,360 --> 02:56:43,440
Speaker 8: place of a mattress. If they were lucky enough to

3192
02:56:43,480 --> 02:56:46,200
Speaker 8: be asleep, they were woken up at two am for

3193
02:56:46,320 --> 02:56:49,560
Speaker 8: breakfast and then again at four am for head counting.

3194
02:56:49,879 --> 02:56:52,440
Speaker 17: They were so full they didn't have room for the

3195
02:56:52,520 --> 02:56:56,640
Speaker 17: people that were arrested, so they were in this holding sale.

3196
02:56:57,879 --> 02:56:59,320
Speaker 11: Some of them been there three days.

3197
02:56:59,560 --> 02:57:03,880
Speaker 17: It was eighteen feet by six feet across. The last

3198
02:57:03,920 --> 02:57:07,279
Speaker 17: six feet were behind a divider.

3199
02:57:07,360 --> 02:57:09,800
Speaker 9: The had of toylets toys, so with.

3200
02:57:09,920 --> 02:57:13,760
Speaker 17: Even less room, the prison system is every day doing

3201
02:57:13,879 --> 02:57:16,760
Speaker 17: these kind of being union treatments to people that get

3202
02:57:16,840 --> 02:57:18,720
Speaker 17: arrested or not yet guilty of anything.

3203
02:57:19,440 --> 02:57:23,480
Speaker 8: Student organizers and parents also briefly spoke on why people

3204
02:57:23,560 --> 02:57:25,240
Speaker 8: are fighting against copp City.

3205
02:57:25,840 --> 02:57:27,280
Speaker 2: I don't want to live in a city.

3206
02:57:27,360 --> 02:57:28,880
Speaker 16: I don't want to live in a country in a

3207
02:57:28,959 --> 02:57:33,120
Speaker 16: world that prioritizes the protection of private property through murder

3208
02:57:33,280 --> 02:57:37,640
Speaker 16: and state violence over the fundamental building blocks of life. Okay,

3209
02:57:38,040 --> 02:57:40,840
Speaker 16: I think we need to be focusing on giving people

3210
02:57:40,879 --> 02:57:44,400
Speaker 16: places to live, giving people food to eat, water to drink,

3211
02:57:45,200 --> 02:57:48,119
Speaker 16: not on giving the police playgrounds where they can blow.

3212
02:57:48,000 --> 02:57:49,360
Speaker 2: Up bombs and shoot their guns.

3213
02:57:50,480 --> 02:57:53,160
Speaker 16: And that's why all of us together here need to

3214
02:57:53,240 --> 02:57:57,440
Speaker 16: come together, be as one here in beautiful community, with children,

3215
02:57:57,760 --> 02:58:01,480
Speaker 16: with elders, everything in between, doing this amazing community.

3216
02:58:01,520 --> 02:58:02,800
Speaker 5: Beldor I love being out here with y'all.

3217
02:58:02,800 --> 02:58:04,760
Speaker 2: It's so much fun to just like be working the

3218
02:58:04,840 --> 02:58:06,040
Speaker 2: popcorn machines and all that.

3219
02:58:07,640 --> 02:58:09,920
Speaker 16: And that's why we're all here together, because we know

3220
02:58:10,040 --> 02:58:12,920
Speaker 16: that community is the key for us to stop cop city.

3221
02:58:13,320 --> 02:58:14,360
Speaker 2: Stop cop city.

3222
02:58:16,240 --> 02:58:18,240
Speaker 18: And so as we fight to stop cop City, we

3223
02:58:18,320 --> 02:58:20,760
Speaker 18: are fighting for investment in the things that make families

3224
02:58:20,800 --> 02:58:21,600
Speaker 18: thrive in this city.

3225
02:58:24,080 --> 02:58:25,320
Speaker 7: We tell them's right, chickens.

3226
02:58:25,400 --> 02:58:27,560
Speaker 18: We tell the little police foundations, and we demand that

3227
02:58:27,640 --> 02:58:29,200
Speaker 18: money be reinvested.

3228
02:58:29,600 --> 02:58:33,000
Speaker 2: And they're housing for the people, shall care for.

3229
02:58:33,080 --> 02:58:36,600
Speaker 18: The people, education for the people, health care for the people.

3230
02:58:36,840 --> 02:58:39,520
Speaker 18: But those are the things that make our communities truly safe.

3231
02:58:42,160 --> 02:58:43,800
Speaker 18: And if they won't give it to us, we're gonna

3232
02:58:43,800 --> 02:58:47,840
Speaker 18: build those networks of care in our communities ourselves. That

3233
02:58:48,000 --> 02:58:50,879
Speaker 18: is what makes days like today so beautiful, the fact.

3234
02:58:50,720 --> 02:58:52,560
Speaker 2: That the people have the capacity to feel and feed

3235
02:58:52,640 --> 02:58:52,959
Speaker 2: the people.

3236
02:58:53,360 --> 02:58:55,280
Speaker 18: The people have the capacity to make sure that people say,

3237
02:58:55,360 --> 02:58:57,760
Speaker 18: hy drating, people have the capacity to give each other

3238
02:58:57,840 --> 02:59:00,800
Speaker 18: medical care. And as we build out those networks of care,

3239
02:59:01,040 --> 02:59:03,279
Speaker 18: we make the government irrelevance.

3240
02:59:05,120 --> 02:59:07,119
Speaker 2: You kind of tellup for the new all day long.

3241
02:59:08,560 --> 02:59:11,440
Speaker 18: But if we continue to build people's power, well they

3242
02:59:11,480 --> 02:59:14,720
Speaker 18: have to say don't even matter, So are you ready

3243
02:59:14,720 --> 02:59:15,279
Speaker 18: to build.

3244
02:59:15,080 --> 02:59:15,680
Speaker 7: That kind of world?

3245
02:59:17,080 --> 02:59:20,200
Speaker 8: As people got ready to depart, the energy was noticeably

3246
02:59:20,400 --> 02:59:24,560
Speaker 8: higher than most other events that week. All right, it

3247
02:59:24,720 --> 02:59:28,280
Speaker 8: is Saturday morning on July first. This is the last

3248
02:59:28,440 --> 02:59:32,320
Speaker 8: day of the sixth week of action of the Youth Rally.

3249
02:59:32,480 --> 02:59:35,560
Speaker 8: Just left Brownwood Park and is now marching through East

3250
02:59:35,600 --> 02:59:40,440
Speaker 8: Atlanta Village. Shortly before the Youth Rally, news started to

3251
02:59:40,520 --> 02:59:45,320
Speaker 8: circulate that early early that morning, just after midnight, several

3252
02:59:45,440 --> 02:59:51,240
Speaker 8: Atlanta police motorcycles and cop cars suffered mysterious damages, which

3253
02:59:51,440 --> 02:59:55,119
Speaker 8: possibly could have contributed to the more bolsterous energy among

3254
02:59:55,280 --> 03:00:02,800
Speaker 8: some of the radical attendees. People are driving by and

3255
03:00:02,920 --> 03:00:06,920
Speaker 8: honking in support. As about seventy five people, maybe one

3256
03:00:07,000 --> 03:00:13,760
Speaker 8: hundred are marked as about seventy five or one hundred

3257
03:00:13,760 --> 03:00:17,800
Speaker 8: people are marching next to Metropolitan Avenue.

3258
03:00:19,480 --> 03:00:22,480
Speaker 5: Take a fire truck would pull their air horn.

3259
03:00:24,240 --> 03:00:26,080
Speaker 2: The fire trucks were kind of busy last night.

3260
03:00:26,200 --> 03:00:29,280
Speaker 19: Actually, I'm not sure the fire trucks were busy doing

3261
03:00:29,320 --> 03:00:33,000
Speaker 19: what There's well, it seems like a lot of police

3262
03:00:33,040 --> 03:00:35,040
Speaker 19: motorcycles were found to be set on fire at the

3263
03:00:35,120 --> 03:00:36,959
Speaker 19: sight of the old Police Trading Academy.

3264
03:00:37,120 --> 03:00:40,080
Speaker 5: Sounded like some police suck cruisers were wrecked somewhere else

3265
03:00:40,120 --> 03:00:40,640
Speaker 5: in the city too.

3266
03:00:40,760 --> 03:00:43,640
Speaker 11: On Memorial Drive Southeast, it sounded like three cop cars

3267
03:00:43,720 --> 03:00:44,680
Speaker 11: were also smashed up.

3268
03:00:44,920 --> 03:00:46,160
Speaker 5: Is you think there's something going around?

3269
03:00:46,280 --> 03:00:47,000
Speaker 2: Is it contagious?

3270
03:00:49,360 --> 03:00:52,600
Speaker 11: So, Yeah, the fire crews were a little bit busy

3271
03:00:52,680 --> 03:00:53,039
Speaker 11: last night.

3272
03:00:53,240 --> 03:00:55,560
Speaker 5: Spontaneous vehicle vandalism.

3273
03:00:55,879 --> 03:01:00,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's certainly one way to end this week of action.

3274
03:01:06,360 --> 03:01:09,840
Speaker 8: This definitely feels like the most positive part of the

3275
03:01:09,920 --> 03:01:13,640
Speaker 8: Week of action so far. Yeah, people have been marching

3276
03:01:13,680 --> 03:01:16,960
Speaker 8: for about twenty minutes now. The march is now turned

3277
03:01:17,160 --> 03:01:24,600
Speaker 8: down Glenwood and is heading back towards Brownwood Park. No

3278
03:01:24,840 --> 03:01:28,240
Speaker 8: police presence at all so far. There was just complete

3279
03:01:28,280 --> 03:01:29,960
Speaker 8: I've not seen a single cop car in this in

3280
03:01:30,040 --> 03:01:33,560
Speaker 8: this section of town. There's also three less cop cars

3281
03:01:33,640 --> 03:01:36,120
Speaker 8: in Atlanta than there usually is, so that that might

3282
03:01:36,200 --> 03:01:37,040
Speaker 8: have something to do with it.

3283
03:01:38,520 --> 03:01:41,840
Speaker 5: It was from this zone too, that the second one

3284
03:01:41,879 --> 03:01:44,080
Speaker 5: where the cop cars are it was like a mile

3285
03:01:44,080 --> 03:01:47,440
Speaker 5: and a half away. Yeah, it's very very close, but yeah,

3286
03:01:47,600 --> 03:01:51,640
Speaker 5: very different than what we saw on last Saturday. Yes,

3287
03:01:51,840 --> 03:01:54,039
Speaker 5: where I like, even on my way in, I saw

3288
03:01:54,120 --> 03:01:57,960
Speaker 5: apd here every you know, twenty feet Yeah, and do

3289
03:01:58,120 --> 03:02:03,119
Speaker 5: not see a single no, a beauty vehicle is notable.

3290
03:02:04,440 --> 03:02:06,920
Speaker 8: The youth rally that closed the last week of action

3291
03:02:07,080 --> 03:02:10,120
Speaker 8: in March kind of felt like the end of an era.

3292
03:02:11,240 --> 03:02:14,680
Speaker 8: This one on July first felt very different, much more

3293
03:02:14,760 --> 03:02:18,080
Speaker 8: like a beginning of a new era. After a very

3294
03:02:18,280 --> 03:02:21,320
Speaker 8: scattered week, the movement finally started to feel like it

3295
03:02:21,400 --> 03:02:24,800
Speaker 8: had multiple directions to grow. This week definitely started on

3296
03:02:25,040 --> 03:02:28,880
Speaker 8: I would say, a muted note, and it's ended with

3297
03:02:29,200 --> 03:02:32,000
Speaker 8: a bit more directionality for the future and a bit

3298
03:02:32,080 --> 03:02:32,840
Speaker 8: more positivity.

3299
03:02:32,879 --> 03:02:33,160
Speaker 4: I think.

3300
03:02:33,320 --> 03:02:35,880
Speaker 8: I think people were able to think of ways that

3301
03:02:36,000 --> 03:02:39,680
Speaker 8: the movement can evolve and grow from here and recognize

3302
03:02:39,720 --> 03:02:42,680
Speaker 8: the necessity for that and now change and yet recognized

3303
03:02:42,680 --> 03:02:45,440
Speaker 8: the necessity for change, and people are ready to continue

3304
03:02:45,840 --> 03:02:48,240
Speaker 8: and evolve as the situation on the ground is also changing.

3305
03:02:50,720 --> 03:02:53,600
Speaker 5: And I mean adaptability was a part of the movement

3306
03:02:53,760 --> 03:02:56,240
Speaker 5: from the get go. Yes, just I think we got

3307
03:02:56,760 --> 03:02:59,960
Speaker 5: the movement got very tied to certain modes of operation

3308
03:03:00,400 --> 03:03:01,879
Speaker 5: that are not available anymore.

3309
03:03:02,080 --> 03:03:02,280
Speaker 7: Yep.

3310
03:03:03,520 --> 03:03:06,840
Speaker 8: You know, for the past like a few months, people

3311
03:03:06,879 --> 03:03:08,880
Speaker 8: have been it felt like people have been playing on

3312
03:03:09,280 --> 03:03:12,560
Speaker 8: the police's like board like they've been they've been following

3313
03:03:12,640 --> 03:03:16,920
Speaker 8: that and both both of the action last night and

3314
03:03:17,320 --> 03:03:19,040
Speaker 8: the sort of talks that are happening throughout the city.

3315
03:03:19,400 --> 03:03:21,400
Speaker 11: I think that is probably going to change.

3316
03:03:22,400 --> 03:03:22,720
Speaker 5: All right.

3317
03:03:22,720 --> 03:03:25,160
Speaker 8: We are about a block away from Brownwood Park on

3318
03:03:25,400 --> 03:03:27,920
Speaker 8: Portland Avenue and Gresham Avenue.

3319
03:03:29,320 --> 03:03:32,080
Speaker 5: Where there is pizza and water waiting.

3320
03:03:33,360 --> 03:03:35,960
Speaker 8: That is, that is I'm excited for water. I don't

3321
03:03:35,959 --> 03:03:38,160
Speaker 8: think I can have hot pizza right now. I think

3322
03:03:38,240 --> 03:03:42,480
Speaker 8: I would just faint. But cold water is certainly, certainly enticeing.

3323
03:03:42,520 --> 03:03:48,320
Speaker 8: Certain Yeah, and there's music back here in Brownwood. Tables

3324
03:03:48,360 --> 03:03:52,640
Speaker 8: set up giving out literature, giving out food, water, lots

3325
03:03:52,680 --> 03:03:56,680
Speaker 8: of bubbles. Earlier, earlier, at the earlier, at the rally

3326
03:03:56,680 --> 03:03:59,400
Speaker 8: before the march, there was a water balloon fight which

3327
03:03:59,480 --> 03:04:00,720
Speaker 8: was very interest.

3328
03:04:00,879 --> 03:04:02,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I left it. I don't know why you've stayed around.

3329
03:04:02,840 --> 03:04:03,440
Speaker 2: The water moved.

3330
03:04:04,560 --> 03:04:05,840
Speaker 5: I took my laptop and left.

3331
03:04:05,879 --> 03:04:07,560
Speaker 11: There was there was there was a few very close

3332
03:04:07,600 --> 03:04:08,119
Speaker 11: moments there.

3333
03:04:09,240 --> 03:04:10,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, there's food.

3334
03:04:10,760 --> 03:04:15,240
Speaker 8: There's lots of signs, banners, what a lot of Little

3335
03:04:15,280 --> 03:04:18,720
Speaker 8: Caesar's pizza. There was much more energy here compared to

3336
03:04:18,840 --> 03:04:21,280
Speaker 8: the kickoff rally, which happened in the very same park

3337
03:04:21,400 --> 03:04:25,760
Speaker 8: exactly a week beforehand, which felt sort of reversed from

3338
03:04:25,800 --> 03:04:29,040
Speaker 8: the previous week of action this past March, which is

3339
03:04:29,080 --> 03:04:31,440
Speaker 8: interesting because like last week of action, you know, the

3340
03:04:32,280 --> 03:04:34,400
Speaker 8: kickoff rally was like the biggest thing, was the biggest

3341
03:04:34,600 --> 03:04:37,000
Speaker 8: energy point, and the youth rally was kind of the

3342
03:04:37,080 --> 03:04:40,640
Speaker 8: more like muted clothes And this has kind of been inversed.

3343
03:04:40,959 --> 03:04:44,080
Speaker 5: Which honestly for when you're looking at like what has

3344
03:04:44,160 --> 03:04:47,600
Speaker 5: happened over the last few months, maybe reading leading beating

3345
03:04:47,680 --> 03:04:50,480
Speaker 5: out with a high note is yeah, is the idea.

3346
03:04:51,000 --> 03:04:53,320
Speaker 8: I like, we're also ending with the bouncy castle, which

3347
03:04:53,360 --> 03:04:54,359
Speaker 8: is very very important.

3348
03:04:54,800 --> 03:04:58,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, for the full flip, we have to end with

3349
03:04:58,440 --> 03:04:59,280
Speaker 5: the bouncy castle.

3350
03:04:59,360 --> 03:05:04,000
Speaker 8: Yes, We've although we should move the bouncy castle to

3351
03:05:04,680 --> 03:05:06,680
Speaker 8: eight to ninety Memorial Drive south east.

3352
03:05:06,480 --> 03:05:07,640
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Stop.

3353
03:05:11,200 --> 03:05:13,800
Speaker 8: After the youth rally, Matt and I got some coffee

3354
03:05:14,160 --> 03:05:17,400
Speaker 8: in East Atlanta Village and talked about the broad strokes

3355
03:05:17,440 --> 03:05:19,800
Speaker 8: of the week and the general state of the movement.

3356
03:05:20,160 --> 03:05:22,200
Speaker 8: But like I said, I think this week started with

3357
03:05:22,240 --> 03:05:25,720
Speaker 8: a lot of questions being had, and it's ended with

3358
03:05:25,879 --> 03:05:28,920
Speaker 8: some of those questions being being answered and people figuring

3359
03:05:28,959 --> 03:05:31,400
Speaker 8: out that to answer some of some of those other questions,

3360
03:05:32,160 --> 03:05:35,359
Speaker 8: the answer will will will take the form of actions

3361
03:05:35,400 --> 03:05:37,879
Speaker 8: that happened in these next few months, and I feel

3362
03:05:37,879 --> 03:05:41,200
Speaker 8: like there's it's it's it's ended with a bit more

3363
03:05:41,320 --> 03:05:43,960
Speaker 8: directionality than what it began, which is interesting for a

3364
03:05:44,000 --> 03:05:47,360
Speaker 8: week of action. Yeah, it was needed, though it was

3365
03:05:47,480 --> 03:05:51,360
Speaker 8: absolutely needed. Like at like the first rally just felt

3366
03:05:51,440 --> 03:05:54,160
Speaker 8: so weird that for the first kickoff rally that the

3367
03:05:54,200 --> 03:05:56,720
Speaker 8: first day, that the first few days felt just very

3368
03:05:57,800 --> 03:06:00,960
Speaker 8: very like very scattered. It was unclear how what was

3369
03:06:01,000 --> 03:06:03,400
Speaker 8: happening was related to stop in Cop City. And in

3370
03:06:03,520 --> 03:06:06,720
Speaker 8: some ways, this week of Action feels like the reverse

3371
03:06:06,879 --> 03:06:09,440
Speaker 8: of the last week of Action, where like the last

3372
03:06:09,440 --> 03:06:12,240
Speaker 8: week of Action, it started with a point of directionality,

3373
03:06:12,360 --> 03:06:14,400
Speaker 8: like we are going to retake Kolani and they did.

3374
03:06:14,840 --> 03:06:16,200
Speaker 11: And then they're like, we are.

3375
03:06:16,160 --> 03:06:18,920
Speaker 8: Going to do an action to physically stop the construction

3376
03:06:18,959 --> 03:06:20,760
Speaker 8: of Cop City, and they did, Like they was doing

3377
03:06:20,840 --> 03:06:23,520
Speaker 8: all these things. And I think that week ended with

3378
03:06:23,640 --> 03:06:28,560
Speaker 8: more questions and what it started with because the police

3379
03:06:28,720 --> 03:06:30,200
Speaker 8: did the rate of the forest, there was a lot

3380
03:06:30,240 --> 03:06:32,280
Speaker 8: of there was more uncertainty by the end of the

3381
03:06:32,320 --> 03:06:33,879
Speaker 8: week because there was so much over policing.

3382
03:06:33,959 --> 03:06:36,280
Speaker 5: There was a lot of changes throughout throughout that week.

3383
03:06:37,600 --> 03:06:39,440
Speaker 8: And I think this week started in like an inverse

3384
03:06:39,560 --> 03:06:42,360
Speaker 8: is people started this week with a directionless of sense,

3385
03:06:42,360 --> 03:06:44,920
Speaker 8: and they had a lot of questions going into this week,

3386
03:06:45,360 --> 03:06:48,080
Speaker 8: and I feel like some people have started to kind

3387
03:06:48,080 --> 03:06:51,359
Speaker 8: of figure out how the movement will evolve.

3388
03:06:51,080 --> 03:06:54,000
Speaker 11: In these next few months, and it feels like people

3389
03:06:54,360 --> 03:06:54,600
Speaker 11: have a.

3390
03:06:54,640 --> 03:06:56,800
Speaker 8: Better idea of where, of like how they're going to

3391
03:06:56,879 --> 03:07:01,200
Speaker 8: move forward in these next three months six months, and

3392
03:07:01,360 --> 03:07:04,320
Speaker 8: like the month and a half when construction is slated

3393
03:07:04,400 --> 03:07:05,480
Speaker 8: to begin in August.

3394
03:07:05,240 --> 03:07:07,560
Speaker 5: Wait to begin. And you know, this referendum is looking

3395
03:07:07,680 --> 03:07:11,680
Speaker 5: like it's doing pretty well, so hopefully that that does delay.

3396
03:07:11,760 --> 03:07:14,960
Speaker 5: But yeah, of course we also ended with bouncy castle.

3397
03:07:15,520 --> 03:07:19,800
Speaker 5: We can't do it so acknowledging the importance of bouncy

3398
03:07:19,840 --> 03:07:22,880
Speaker 5: castles to this movement, or at least to Garrison, and

3399
03:07:23,000 --> 03:07:23,480
Speaker 5: I yes.

3400
03:07:25,360 --> 03:07:27,360
Speaker 8: I think the other thing that makes it interesting in

3401
03:07:27,440 --> 03:07:30,200
Speaker 8: terms of this week being an inverse of the last

3402
03:07:30,240 --> 03:07:33,320
Speaker 8: week is that, you know, on the last week, day two,

3403
03:07:33,520 --> 03:07:38,840
Speaker 8: there was this very fiery action with vehicles being smashed.

3404
03:07:39,280 --> 03:07:43,000
Speaker 8: And then on the second to last day, which is

3405
03:07:43,120 --> 03:07:45,880
Speaker 8: like late last night, either like late Friday night or

3406
03:07:45,879 --> 03:07:48,959
Speaker 8: early Saturday morning, at like one am, two am, there

3407
03:07:49,160 --> 03:07:52,920
Speaker 8: was three Atlanta police cars smashed by Reynoldstown.

3408
03:07:52,920 --> 03:07:53,240
Speaker 4: I believe.

3409
03:07:53,360 --> 03:07:55,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, just right, like a mile and a half away

3410
03:07:55,200 --> 03:07:56,640
Speaker 5: from from Brownwood Park, yep.

3411
03:07:56,680 --> 03:08:01,040
Speaker 8: And close to the airport at the old Police Trade Academy,

3412
03:08:01,560 --> 03:08:04,520
Speaker 8: there was a it looks like a good fleet of

3413
03:08:04,560 --> 03:08:06,120
Speaker 8: Atlanta police motorcycles.

3414
03:08:06,240 --> 03:08:09,199
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's where the motorcycle Like, that's where the motors

3415
03:08:09,400 --> 03:08:10,279
Speaker 5: the quarters.

3416
03:08:10,360 --> 03:08:13,720
Speaker 8: Ye is one outside and those motorcycles are going to

3417
03:08:13,760 --> 03:08:15,840
Speaker 8: be no longer functioning. Yes, they are all charged to

3418
03:08:15,879 --> 03:08:19,320
Speaker 8: a crisp with like incendiary devices found there.

3419
03:08:19,480 --> 03:08:19,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3420
03:08:20,040 --> 03:08:22,520
Speaker 8: One of the most noticeable differences about this week of

3421
03:08:22,560 --> 03:08:26,640
Speaker 8: action compared to the previous one was the turnout out

3422
03:08:26,680 --> 03:08:29,200
Speaker 8: of state support did not show up in similar numbers

3423
03:08:29,240 --> 03:08:31,800
Speaker 8: as to the last week of action in March. There's

3424
03:08:31,800 --> 03:08:33,879
Speaker 8: a lot of potential reasons for this. This week may

3425
03:08:33,920 --> 03:08:37,279
Speaker 8: have simply happened too soon, It coincided with other events

3426
03:08:37,280 --> 03:08:40,760
Speaker 8: across the country. Its messaging may not have reflected an

3427
03:08:40,879 --> 03:08:45,240
Speaker 8: adequate level of planning. There was probably some demoralization from

3428
03:08:45,280 --> 03:08:48,520
Speaker 8: the ninety acres of trees cut down and with Entrenchment

3429
03:08:48,600 --> 03:08:52,600
Speaker 8: Creek Park closed and under police occupation. Launching options in

3430
03:08:52,640 --> 03:08:55,640
Speaker 8: Atlanta was more of a mystery for those coming from

3431
03:08:55,680 --> 03:08:59,000
Speaker 8: outside the city. More time away from the death of

3432
03:08:59,080 --> 03:09:03,280
Speaker 8: Tortigita is probably also a factor. People in Atlanta may

3433
03:09:03,400 --> 03:09:06,440
Speaker 8: have to reconcile that the movement may not have as

3434
03:09:06,560 --> 03:09:10,280
Speaker 8: much widespread national support and all the ground numbers as

3435
03:09:10,360 --> 03:09:11,440
Speaker 8: it did last March.

3436
03:09:12,080 --> 03:09:14,280
Speaker 5: This is the smallest week of action we've had in

3437
03:09:15,760 --> 03:09:17,280
Speaker 5: over a year in recent memory.

3438
03:09:17,360 --> 03:09:19,080
Speaker 11: This is the smallest one I've reported on.

3439
03:09:19,280 --> 03:09:21,640
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, you know, I think it might have even

3440
03:09:21,680 --> 03:09:24,320
Speaker 5: been comparable to the first week of Action, like it

3441
03:09:24,480 --> 03:09:27,039
Speaker 5: was around there, but it also felt more local.

3442
03:09:27,400 --> 03:09:28,720
Speaker 11: It did feel way more local.

3443
03:09:29,040 --> 03:09:31,600
Speaker 5: Once you go from like something so big as the

3444
03:09:31,680 --> 03:09:36,280
Speaker 5: last week of action to something more constrained, that is

3445
03:09:37,200 --> 03:09:40,680
Speaker 5: that sets a like a vibe shift that I think

3446
03:09:40,920 --> 03:09:42,600
Speaker 5: you've got to kind of come to terms with. And

3447
03:09:43,440 --> 03:09:45,520
Speaker 5: it's one of those moments where you're like, Okay, we

3448
03:09:45,640 --> 03:09:47,640
Speaker 5: are in a different paradigm.

3449
03:09:47,840 --> 03:09:51,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, fewer numbers is not necessarily a bad thing. A

3450
03:09:51,680 --> 03:09:55,000
Speaker 8: group of five to ten people can sometimes be much

3451
03:09:55,160 --> 03:09:57,680
Speaker 8: more effective at doing certain things than a crowd of

3452
03:09:57,720 --> 03:10:01,000
Speaker 8: two hundred or even a thousand. You just have to

3453
03:10:01,080 --> 03:10:03,600
Speaker 8: specifically prepare for the numbers that you know that you'll

3454
03:10:03,720 --> 03:10:08,040
Speaker 8: have for such a long time. I felt like this

3455
03:10:08,280 --> 03:10:11,120
Speaker 8: was this movement was extremely effective in delay and construction

3456
03:10:11,440 --> 03:10:15,280
Speaker 8: like that was like extremely effective. Deadline year and a half,

3457
03:10:15,360 --> 03:10:17,880
Speaker 8: deadlines kept getting pushed back every single thing. Like the

3458
03:10:17,920 --> 03:10:21,520
Speaker 8: occupation was very good at doing what it attempted to do,

3459
03:10:23,160 --> 03:10:25,960
Speaker 8: and at a certain point that became no longer viable

3460
03:10:26,040 --> 03:10:29,840
Speaker 8: and things are now changing gears. Yeah, and you have

3461
03:10:29,959 --> 03:10:32,600
Speaker 8: to allow yourself that evolution, Like it has to the

3462
03:10:32,680 --> 03:10:35,800
Speaker 8: same way people started occupying the forest in October after

3463
03:10:36,000 --> 03:10:39,000
Speaker 8: the city council stuff in September twenty twenty one.

3464
03:10:39,000 --> 03:10:41,520
Speaker 11: Like as the things changed, you have to change your

3465
03:10:41,560 --> 03:10:42,080
Speaker 11: tactics with it.

3466
03:10:42,280 --> 03:10:45,520
Speaker 5: And as I mean, as revolutionary strategy goes, that's just

3467
03:10:45,879 --> 03:10:48,520
Speaker 5: that should be a baseline, yea. And adapting to what

3468
03:10:48,720 --> 03:10:51,520
Speaker 5: the situation is and not what the situation what you

3469
03:10:51,640 --> 03:10:52,200
Speaker 5: want it to be.

3470
03:10:52,600 --> 03:10:56,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think more people are talking about that

3471
03:10:56,200 --> 03:10:59,560
Speaker 8: this week and realizing that, like maybe even another week

3472
03:10:59,600 --> 03:11:02,080
Speaker 8: of Action does not make sense for this new paradigm

3473
03:11:02,120 --> 03:11:05,320
Speaker 8: that we're existing in Atlanta. I've talked about the possibility

3474
03:11:05,360 --> 03:11:08,720
Speaker 8: of changing the week of Action structure before in previous episodes,

3475
03:11:09,360 --> 03:11:11,560
Speaker 8: and I really only brought that up because that's what

3476
03:11:11,640 --> 03:11:14,480
Speaker 8: people were conveying to me at the time. And this

3477
03:11:14,640 --> 03:11:17,360
Speaker 8: has continued to be a topic of debate both during

3478
03:11:17,560 --> 03:11:20,039
Speaker 8: and since June, what do you.

3479
03:11:20,040 --> 03:11:21,640
Speaker 5: Do with the Week of Action format? And I know

3480
03:11:21,800 --> 03:11:24,119
Speaker 5: that we kind of talked about this during the last

3481
03:11:24,400 --> 03:11:29,400
Speaker 5: YEP recap episode where you brought up that that might

3482
03:11:29,440 --> 03:11:32,000
Speaker 5: have been the last Week of Action, but it wasn't.

3483
03:11:32,080 --> 03:11:34,120
Speaker 8: It wasn't because as I was making as episodes this

3484
03:11:34,240 --> 03:11:38,760
Speaker 8: Week of Action what was announced, I've heard more people

3485
03:11:38,840 --> 03:11:41,000
Speaker 8: say that they don't think the Week of Action format

3486
03:11:41,080 --> 03:11:41,680
Speaker 8: is applicable.

3487
03:11:41,680 --> 03:11:41,880
Speaker 11: Aim.

3488
03:11:42,959 --> 03:11:45,440
Speaker 8: I've heard more people say that than I did last week.

3489
03:11:45,560 --> 03:11:48,800
Speaker 8: What if Atlanta has kind of outgrown this format? This

3490
03:11:48,879 --> 03:11:51,920
Speaker 8: format's proved to be very useful in these past few years.

3491
03:11:52,240 --> 03:11:54,360
Speaker 8: It's been very positive parts, it's been very negative parts.

3492
03:11:54,840 --> 03:11:56,600
Speaker 8: And what if there's time for what if it's time

3493
03:11:56,640 --> 03:12:00,400
Speaker 8: for something like completely new, something that the police don't.

3494
03:12:00,200 --> 03:12:02,040
Speaker 5: Know how to respond to, because something that matches the

3495
03:12:02,120 --> 03:12:02,720
Speaker 5: new paradigm.

3496
03:12:02,920 --> 03:12:04,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, because that's That's the other thing is like people

3497
03:12:04,680 --> 03:12:06,680
Speaker 8: have been doing this for like two years now, Like

3498
03:12:07,600 --> 03:12:10,440
Speaker 8: not only have people gotten used to a pattern, but

3499
03:12:10,560 --> 03:12:12,800
Speaker 8: like police have gotten used to a pattern. Like police

3500
03:12:12,800 --> 03:12:15,760
Speaker 8: have gotten very good at repressing the Week of Action

3501
03:12:16,000 --> 03:12:18,320
Speaker 8: like they have they have had two years to practice,

3502
03:12:18,320 --> 03:12:20,880
Speaker 8: they have they know how to do this now? So

3503
03:12:21,160 --> 03:12:24,520
Speaker 8: why why keep playing on their battlefield? Like why why

3504
03:12:24,680 --> 03:12:26,160
Speaker 8: keep doing what APD.

3505
03:12:25,879 --> 03:12:26,680
Speaker 5: Is expecting you to do.

3506
03:12:27,360 --> 03:12:30,240
Speaker 8: That's part of what's you know, interesting about this resurgence

3507
03:12:30,280 --> 03:12:34,000
Speaker 8: of these nocturnal hit and run sabotages that are unannounced.

3508
03:12:35,840 --> 03:12:37,960
Speaker 8: That we saw the ones earlier in this week with

3509
03:12:38,080 --> 03:12:40,440
Speaker 8: the with the Brent scarboroughs machines, when we saw the

3510
03:12:40,480 --> 03:12:44,040
Speaker 8: APD vehicles get hit last night, So perhaps there there

3511
03:12:44,040 --> 03:12:46,000
Speaker 8: will be more of that. Perhaps they'll be just new

3512
03:12:46,040 --> 03:12:48,440
Speaker 8: things that we can't even predict, like there's so many

3513
03:12:48,520 --> 03:12:52,119
Speaker 8: other avenues that things could that things could go. Even

3514
03:12:52,200 --> 03:12:54,600
Speaker 8: during the use March, Matt and I were wondering if

3515
03:12:54,680 --> 03:12:58,120
Speaker 8: this new spike in sabotage actions would break the spell

3516
03:12:58,240 --> 03:13:01,560
Speaker 8: and we'd see a return this type of action happening

3517
03:13:01,680 --> 03:13:02,440
Speaker 8: more frequently.

3518
03:13:03,080 --> 03:13:03,280
Speaker 19: You know.

3519
03:13:03,640 --> 03:13:07,360
Speaker 5: It's the sort of direct action that has really been

3520
03:13:07,440 --> 03:13:09,000
Speaker 5: missing over the last several months.

3521
03:13:09,240 --> 03:13:12,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, and no, we've been talking about a lot this

3522
03:13:12,320 --> 03:13:12,680
Speaker 11: past week.

3523
03:13:12,720 --> 03:13:15,200
Speaker 8: We're talking about how there's been a lack of these

3524
03:13:15,240 --> 03:13:18,760
Speaker 8: sorts of like nocturnal hit and run direct actions, and

3525
03:13:19,600 --> 03:13:22,480
Speaker 8: late last night it seems like there was a resurgence.

3526
03:13:22,640 --> 03:13:26,400
Speaker 5: So we'll see how that continues, you know, after the

3527
03:13:26,440 --> 03:13:29,280
Speaker 5: Week of Action, if it continues or if it was

3528
03:13:29,320 --> 03:13:32,200
Speaker 5: a Week of Action inspired element. But I have a

3529
03:13:32,280 --> 03:13:35,360
Speaker 5: feeling we'll see some of those continue to crop up.

3530
03:13:35,840 --> 03:13:39,440
Speaker 11: Absolutely and this did indeed turn out to be the case.

3531
03:13:41,120 --> 03:13:41,440
Speaker 11: All right.

3532
03:13:41,560 --> 03:13:43,600
Speaker 8: I will do my best to go over a short

3533
03:13:43,680 --> 03:13:47,240
Speaker 8: list of the claimed attacks against contractors building cop City

3534
03:13:47,600 --> 03:13:51,119
Speaker 8: and corporations that fund the Atlanta Police Foundation from after

3535
03:13:51,320 --> 03:13:54,520
Speaker 8: this week of action. On a July first, over half

3536
03:13:54,560 --> 03:13:57,039
Speaker 8: a dozen Bank of America buildings in the Bay Area

3537
03:13:57,160 --> 03:14:00,000
Speaker 8: were vandalized and a dozen or so ATMs were smashed.

3538
03:14:00,800 --> 03:14:04,000
Speaker 8: In late June to early July, a group of friends

3539
03:14:04,160 --> 03:14:09,520
Speaker 8: visited the home of copp City architect Anthony Kenny in Norcross, Georgia,

3540
03:14:09,959 --> 03:14:12,880
Speaker 8: while another group paid a visit to ambush Basil Walla,

3541
03:14:13,320 --> 03:14:16,160
Speaker 8: a member of the boarder trustees for the Atlanta Police Foundation.

3542
03:14:16,920 --> 03:14:20,640
Speaker 8: People painted messages around their homes and tires were slashed.

3543
03:14:21,640 --> 03:14:24,960
Speaker 8: On the night of July second, Keith Johnson, the Eastern

3544
03:14:25,040 --> 03:14:28,720
Speaker 8: regional president for Brassfield and Gory, the contracting firm who

3545
03:14:28,760 --> 03:14:32,000
Speaker 8: broadly oversaw the destruction of the forest and who has

3546
03:14:32,120 --> 03:14:36,240
Speaker 8: decided to physically build cop City, also received a mysterious visit.

3547
03:14:37,280 --> 03:14:40,360
Speaker 8: Late in the night, an unknown number of people evaded

3548
03:14:40,400 --> 03:14:44,080
Speaker 8: security guards and spread blood red paint around his pool

3549
03:14:44,520 --> 03:14:47,840
Speaker 8: and left a message reading cop City will never be built.

3550
03:14:48,160 --> 03:14:52,959
Speaker 8: Drop the contract and you can't hide. According to an

3551
03:14:53,040 --> 03:14:57,320
Speaker 8: online communicate, rotten fish and dirty motor oil were left

3552
03:14:57,440 --> 03:15:01,520
Speaker 8: hidden somewhere on the property. Part of the communicat addressed

3553
03:15:01,560 --> 03:15:04,920
Speaker 8: to Keith reads, quote, we know things haven't been feeling

3554
03:15:05,000 --> 03:15:09,360
Speaker 8: great in the office. You're losing money. Subcontractors are upset.

3555
03:15:09,640 --> 03:15:12,840
Speaker 8: There are fractures everywhere in the cop City project, and

3556
03:15:13,000 --> 03:15:16,480
Speaker 8: all of that weight and procarity is on your fragile shoulders.

3557
03:15:17,360 --> 03:15:19,720
Speaker 8: Each time you think of us or see the reminders

3558
03:15:19,800 --> 03:15:23,400
Speaker 8: we left you, remember this is your own doing. You

3559
03:15:23,520 --> 03:15:26,760
Speaker 8: can make all of this stop by dropping the Copcity

3560
03:15:26,879 --> 03:15:32,600
Speaker 8: contract unquote. On July fourth, in lieu of fireworks, people

3561
03:15:32,720 --> 03:15:36,160
Speaker 8: claimed to have set two Brent Scarborough machines on fire

3562
03:15:36,360 --> 03:15:40,320
Speaker 8: in broad daylight due to the lack of security during daytime.

3563
03:15:41,200 --> 03:15:44,879
Speaker 8: Scarborough is the subcontractor who physically leveled the ninety sum

3564
03:15:45,000 --> 03:15:49,000
Speaker 8: acres of forest in the Wallani The same day, in Michigan,

3565
03:15:49,400 --> 03:15:52,640
Speaker 8: Chase Bank ATMs were sabotaged with glue and the bank

3566
03:15:52,760 --> 03:15:56,360
Speaker 8: was vandalized with messages of resistance. Chase Bank's head of

3567
03:15:56,480 --> 03:15:59,480
Speaker 8: Regional Investment Banking serves on the board of the Atlanta

3568
03:15:59,480 --> 03:16:03,520
Speaker 8: Police found and on July eighth, a Bank of America

3569
03:16:03,680 --> 03:16:07,320
Speaker 8: in Berkeley was vandalized with stopcop city slogans and three

3570
03:16:07,520 --> 03:16:11,520
Speaker 8: ATMs were smashed. During the start of this little wave

3571
03:16:11,600 --> 03:16:16,480
Speaker 8: of actions, the Mayor's office and APD were none too happy,

3572
03:16:17,120 --> 03:16:20,800
Speaker 8: so on July fifth, Mayor Andre Dickens and Atlanta Police

3573
03:16:20,879 --> 03:16:24,240
Speaker 8: Chief Darren Shecherbaum put on a press conference with the ATS,

3574
03:16:24,480 --> 03:16:28,720
Speaker 8: Georgia Bureau of Investigation and FBI to discuss the recent

3575
03:16:28,879 --> 03:16:30,320
Speaker 8: surge of direct actions.

3576
03:16:30,959 --> 03:16:34,600
Speaker 10: Our public safety facilities and property were the target of

3577
03:16:34,640 --> 03:16:39,600
Speaker 10: an extremely violent and dangerous attack on Saturday, July first,

3578
03:16:40,080 --> 03:16:44,160
Speaker 10: and there were several other destructive acts of extreme vandalism

3579
03:16:44,520 --> 03:16:49,040
Speaker 10: on public and private property property that occurred that we

3580
03:16:49,200 --> 03:16:52,160
Speaker 10: have reason to believe are related to the construction of

3581
03:16:52,200 --> 03:16:56,280
Speaker 10: the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center in Decab County. The

3582
03:16:56,560 --> 03:17:00,800
Speaker 10: current Atlanta Police Training Center at W one eighty south

3583
03:17:00,879 --> 03:17:05,279
Speaker 10: Side Industrial Parkway was set ablaze in the early morning

3584
03:17:05,520 --> 03:17:11,680
Speaker 10: hours of Saturday, July first. The targeted attack utilized extremely

3585
03:17:11,840 --> 03:17:17,520
Speaker 10: dangerous homemade incendiary devices to set a fire to the

3586
03:17:17,560 --> 03:17:24,440
Speaker 10: building and completely destroyed eight police motorcycle motorcycles. As shocking

3587
03:17:24,520 --> 03:17:29,400
Speaker 10: as this is, this was not an isolated incident of violence.

3588
03:17:30,400 --> 03:17:33,280
Speaker 10: This group actually took credit for these incidents and they

3589
03:17:33,360 --> 03:17:37,720
Speaker 10: stated it as I quote, we are vengeful wing nuts

3590
03:17:37,920 --> 03:17:39,600
Speaker 10: with nothing left to lose.

3591
03:17:40,360 --> 03:17:42,440
Speaker 20: Prior to that, about one hour prior to the event

3592
03:17:42,520 --> 03:17:44,119
Speaker 20: that one of the South Side industrial we had another

3593
03:17:44,160 --> 03:17:46,400
Speaker 20: precinct that was targeted in the city. This is our

3594
03:17:46,440 --> 03:17:49,240
Speaker 20: Path Force precinct Memorial Drive and the eight hundred block

3595
03:17:49,240 --> 03:17:51,800
Speaker 20: of Memorial. These officers control the belt line which many

3596
03:17:51,800 --> 03:17:54,480
Speaker 20: of you all visit frequently. At that location, we had

3597
03:17:54,600 --> 03:17:58,280
Speaker 20: multiple windows broken on police vehicles. We believe the intent

3598
03:17:58,440 --> 03:18:00,840
Speaker 20: was to set those vehicles on fires. Well, there's a

3599
03:18:00,879 --> 03:18:03,440
Speaker 20: burgraff and fire off of the red fuse on the

3600
03:18:03,520 --> 03:18:05,720
Speaker 20: ground that has been used by this group in the

3601
03:18:05,800 --> 03:18:09,200
Speaker 20: past to set police vehicles on fire that was dropped

3602
03:18:09,240 --> 03:18:12,840
Speaker 20: when a citizen observed the criminal actions progress and actually

3603
03:18:12,879 --> 03:18:15,680
Speaker 20: interrupted the crimes that were occurring there. So we believe

3604
03:18:15,760 --> 03:18:18,560
Speaker 20: that the fire attack that was planned on Memorial Drive

3605
03:18:18,800 --> 03:18:22,400
Speaker 20: was thwarted by an observant citizen. A short time later,

3606
03:18:22,400 --> 03:18:24,800
Speaker 20: about an hour, we had the fire at our facility

3607
03:18:24,920 --> 03:18:28,200
Speaker 20: on South Side Industrial. Our training center has housed there

3608
03:18:28,520 --> 03:18:31,720
Speaker 20: most recently, and then our special operations precinct is there.

3609
03:18:32,280 --> 03:18:34,840
Speaker 20: The intent was for all forty to be destroyed, and

3610
03:18:34,959 --> 03:18:37,760
Speaker 20: had all those forty vehicles caught on fire, that police

3611
03:18:37,800 --> 03:18:40,720
Speaker 20: facility would have been gravely damaged, if not destroyed in

3612
03:18:40,800 --> 03:18:43,160
Speaker 20: the fire. And we are thankful for a police officer

3613
03:18:43,240 --> 03:18:46,680
Speaker 20: that saw this unfolding and likely interrupted that plan for

3614
03:18:46,760 --> 03:18:47,279
Speaker 20: being able.

3615
03:18:47,200 --> 03:18:48,359
Speaker 7: To play out in its fullness.

3616
03:18:48,680 --> 03:18:51,440
Speaker 20: There's an indication that this was likely committed by the

3617
03:18:51,480 --> 03:18:52,520
Speaker 20: exact same individuals.

3618
03:18:52,640 --> 03:18:54,119
Speaker 2: We will let and see where the fact takets.

3619
03:18:54,720 --> 03:18:58,440
Speaker 8: According to Chief Sheerbaum and Mayor Dickens, the actions against

3620
03:18:58,520 --> 03:19:01,400
Speaker 8: Atlanta Police on July first, over the course of just

3621
03:19:01,440 --> 03:19:07,800
Speaker 8: a few hours, equalled over three hundred thousand dollars in Damages's.

3622
03:19:06,640 --> 03:19:09,120
Speaker 20: Way around thirty five thousand. And they want you outfit

3623
03:19:09,200 --> 03:19:10,720
Speaker 20: us a little bit more. So do that times eight?

3624
03:19:11,040 --> 03:19:12,359
Speaker 20: That's going to put you in the ballpark.

3625
03:19:13,000 --> 03:19:16,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, and that's not even including the rest of the

3626
03:19:16,760 --> 03:19:20,400
Speaker 10: smoke and damage and other things and the broken windows

3627
03:19:20,520 --> 03:19:21,760
Speaker 10: on the police car, etc.

3628
03:19:22,720 --> 03:19:25,439
Speaker 20: So the group that struck this weekend is a dedicated

3629
03:19:25,480 --> 03:19:27,680
Speaker 20: group of professional anarchists, and I know that may seem

3630
03:19:27,680 --> 03:19:29,880
Speaker 20: a contradiction in terms. So this is a group of

3631
03:19:29,920 --> 03:19:32,760
Speaker 20: individuals that don't pray, play by any rules, and we'll

3632
03:19:32,760 --> 03:19:34,440
Speaker 20: go to any links they need to to carry out

3633
03:19:34,440 --> 03:19:37,120
Speaker 20: and this is their words. We will wage a campaign

3634
03:19:37,520 --> 03:19:39,640
Speaker 20: of violence and destruction, and so what we saw this

3635
03:19:39,760 --> 03:19:41,000
Speaker 20: weekend was part of that campaign.

3636
03:19:41,480 --> 03:19:45,120
Speaker 8: It's always funny when police make anarchists sound very cool

3637
03:19:45,200 --> 03:19:49,400
Speaker 8: and scary. But Chief Shecherbam also pretty clearly explained the

3638
03:19:49,560 --> 03:19:54,720
Speaker 8: reasoned methodology behind the pressure campaigns targeting contractors and APF

3639
03:19:54,879 --> 03:19:55,959
Speaker 8: financial sponsors.

3640
03:19:56,480 --> 03:19:59,240
Speaker 20: We know from the postings of this group their intent

3641
03:19:59,400 --> 03:20:02,400
Speaker 20: to stop the Public Safety Training Center has left the

3642
03:20:02,600 --> 03:20:06,680
Speaker 20: democratic process of the city Council and is now moving

3643
03:20:06,760 --> 03:20:10,680
Speaker 20: to intimidate and force out contractors that are committed to

3644
03:20:10,760 --> 03:20:14,000
Speaker 20: building the public Safety Training Center. This weekend, during the

3645
03:20:14,080 --> 03:20:19,160
Speaker 20: week of action, three different locations private residences were targeted.

3646
03:20:20,640 --> 03:20:23,520
Speaker 20: Tires were flattened on a contractors home, a home of

3647
03:20:23,600 --> 03:20:27,800
Speaker 20: an executive for Brassalgory was significantly vanalyzed in another jurisdiction,

3648
03:20:28,680 --> 03:20:31,160
Speaker 20: and then we had another location where graffiti was used

3649
03:20:31,200 --> 03:20:35,240
Speaker 20: to intimidate. And then yesterday morning, slightly after seven o'clock

3650
03:20:35,240 --> 03:20:38,279
Speaker 20: in the morning. A location at four eighteen McDonough Boulevard

3651
03:20:38,320 --> 03:20:41,720
Speaker 20: belonging into Brent Scarborough's company, which is a key provider

3652
03:20:41,800 --> 03:20:44,280
Speaker 20: of work and this training centers was also targeted and

3653
03:20:44,400 --> 03:20:47,560
Speaker 20: attacked and equipment was set on fire at that location.

3654
03:20:48,840 --> 03:20:52,240
Speaker 20: These acts are of a small, determined group. These are

3655
03:20:52,320 --> 03:20:55,320
Speaker 20: small individuals from across the country that are using violence

3656
03:20:55,680 --> 03:20:59,680
Speaker 20: and fear and intimidation to stop a public safety training center.

3657
03:21:00,000 --> 03:21:02,480
Speaker 20: And this group cannot hide behind the dark of night

3658
03:21:02,920 --> 03:21:04,960
Speaker 20: or the home address and feel that they are not

3659
03:21:05,040 --> 03:21:07,080
Speaker 20: going to be held accountable. I have standing at this

3660
03:21:07,160 --> 03:21:10,520
Speaker 20: podium with me today representings from the Federal Bureau of Investigation,

3661
03:21:11,080 --> 03:21:13,400
Speaker 20: the ATF, and we are also partner with the Georgia

3662
03:21:13,440 --> 03:21:17,280
Speaker 20: Bureau of Investigation. These agencies are working together to determine

3663
03:21:17,280 --> 03:21:20,160
Speaker 20: where federal laws violated this weekend and ensure that the

3664
03:21:20,360 --> 03:21:23,760
Speaker 20: full expertise of American law enforcement is present right here

3665
03:21:23,800 --> 03:21:26,920
Speaker 20: in Atlanta to stop this group, stop this group across

3666
03:21:26,920 --> 03:21:29,920
Speaker 20: the region, stop their ability to impact the public safety

3667
03:21:29,959 --> 03:21:32,080
Speaker 20: network of Atlanta, and hold them accountable.

3668
03:21:32,320 --> 03:21:36,320
Speaker 8: Despite continued threats from law enforcement, the only arrests that

3669
03:21:36,440 --> 03:21:39,680
Speaker 8: have happened so far in relation to this movement are

3670
03:21:39,760 --> 03:21:45,760
Speaker 8: from daytime protests, forest raids, and bail fund organizers. We've

3671
03:21:45,840 --> 03:21:49,920
Speaker 8: yet to see anyone arrested in Atlanta for doing like

3672
03:21:50,000 --> 03:21:53,640
Speaker 8: a specific one of these nocturnal night sabotage actions that

3673
03:21:53,720 --> 03:21:57,440
Speaker 8: has not happened. Yeah, I mean, the scariest indictments everyone's

3674
03:21:57,440 --> 03:21:59,360
Speaker 8: expecting are going to come in these next few years,

3675
03:21:59,400 --> 03:22:02,720
Speaker 8: after you give the FBI two three, four years to investigate,

3676
03:22:02,760 --> 03:22:04,560
Speaker 8: after you interview more people who've been arrested, see if

3677
03:22:04,600 --> 03:22:09,360
Speaker 8: anyone stitches, see if anyone turns state's witness. But so far,

3678
03:22:09,879 --> 03:22:13,040
Speaker 8: it's been safer to do nocturnal sabotage actions than it

3679
03:22:13,120 --> 03:22:17,040
Speaker 8: has been to attend a public protest. And that is

3680
03:22:17,040 --> 03:22:19,160
Speaker 8: an interesting paradigm as well, is that no one's actually

3681
03:22:19,160 --> 03:22:23,440
Speaker 8: got arrested for lighting like cop cars and fire in

3682
03:22:23,480 --> 03:22:26,000
Speaker 8: the middle of the night. No one's been arrested for

3683
03:22:26,120 --> 03:22:28,920
Speaker 8: sabotaging equipment in the middle of the night. All of

3684
03:22:29,000 --> 03:22:31,560
Speaker 8: the arrests that are you know, are being tied to

3685
03:22:31,840 --> 03:22:35,800
Speaker 8: like violent crime, are from like daytime protests, which is

3686
03:22:35,920 --> 03:22:39,440
Speaker 8: an interesting factor about this movement. Direct action in the

3687
03:22:39,560 --> 03:22:43,360
Speaker 8: most surveiled city in America can be tricky and even

3688
03:22:43,560 --> 03:22:46,400
Speaker 8: just managing cell phones and Internet search data is a

3689
03:22:46,520 --> 03:22:50,360
Speaker 8: huge factor, but as much real security there is out

3690
03:22:50,440 --> 03:22:53,640
Speaker 8: in the world, the amount of security theater is arguably

3691
03:22:53,720 --> 03:22:56,680
Speaker 8: a stronger aspect in getting people to not go out

3692
03:22:56,760 --> 03:23:00,480
Speaker 8: and do direct action. The implicit threat of the opticon

3693
03:23:00,920 --> 03:23:05,280
Speaker 8: is often enough to stifle people's potential action, but these

3694
03:23:05,400 --> 03:23:08,760
Speaker 8: things are beatable. Guides for how to do it exist

3695
03:23:08,879 --> 03:23:12,160
Speaker 8: either at your local anarchist book fair or online as

3696
03:23:12,200 --> 03:23:14,520
Speaker 8: long as the computer is running tour browser and a

3697
03:23:14,600 --> 03:23:15,600
Speaker 8: reputable VPN.

3698
03:23:16,480 --> 03:23:16,959
Speaker 11: The Internet.

3699
03:23:17,080 --> 03:23:21,480
Speaker 8: The internet's a fun place. That's there is a lot

3700
03:23:21,520 --> 03:23:24,600
Speaker 8: of no blogs and sites and the zines that tell

3701
03:23:24,600 --> 03:23:26,080
Speaker 8: you how to do that. I don't know, I mean

3702
03:23:26,120 --> 03:23:29,720
Speaker 8: they people always make mistakes, people get caught, sometimes make mistakes.

3703
03:23:29,840 --> 03:23:32,440
Speaker 5: It's risky, and there are cameras everywhere in the city.

3704
03:23:33,040 --> 03:23:34,960
Speaker 5: You have to Yeah, some of them, don't worry. But

3705
03:23:35,640 --> 03:23:38,080
Speaker 5: it's like, do you really want to play Russian Roulette?

3706
03:23:38,160 --> 03:23:40,200
Speaker 8: No, That's a part of that's a part of when

3707
03:23:40,240 --> 03:23:43,280
Speaker 8: people like plan these nocturnal actions is like just because

3708
03:23:43,320 --> 03:23:45,920
Speaker 8: it's nighttime doesn't mean you're not sick getting watched or

3709
03:23:45,920 --> 03:23:47,720
Speaker 8: you're not Like it's there's a lot of things that

3710
03:23:47,840 --> 03:23:50,720
Speaker 8: go into that. There's a lot of ways to get

3711
03:23:50,800 --> 03:23:53,800
Speaker 8: got whether you're like buying supplies and you keep a

3712
03:23:53,879 --> 03:23:56,800
Speaker 8: receipt and people please find a receipt, They track back,

3713
03:23:56,800 --> 03:23:59,120
Speaker 8: they find security acount of you'll be purchasing things and

3714
03:23:59,280 --> 03:24:01,000
Speaker 8: then they're like, oh, this bottle is bought at this

3715
03:24:01,080 --> 03:24:02,440
Speaker 8: place because you have this receipt in your house and

3716
03:24:02,480 --> 03:24:04,240
Speaker 8: blah blah, bah blah blah. Like there's there's lots of

3717
03:24:04,320 --> 03:24:07,480
Speaker 8: ways that that stuff happens. So like I'm not going

3718
03:24:07,560 --> 03:24:09,080
Speaker 8: to give a guide on how to do it right now,

3719
03:24:11,000 --> 03:24:13,440
Speaker 8: but like this anarchists have been.

3720
03:24:13,400 --> 03:24:14,959
Speaker 11: Doing this for a long time.

3721
03:24:15,320 --> 03:24:18,000
Speaker 8: After you do that crime, you've never done that crime,

3722
03:24:18,120 --> 03:24:20,080
Speaker 8: Like it's it's not something that you do as a person,

3723
03:24:20,200 --> 03:24:23,120
Speaker 8: Like you cease to become a person, you become like.

3724
03:24:23,560 --> 03:24:27,160
Speaker 5: You are that action. It issued the action, and then

3725
03:24:27,440 --> 03:24:30,760
Speaker 5: and then you never talked about it ever again it's

3726
03:24:30,800 --> 03:24:34,400
Speaker 5: gone or else you end up going to prison yep,

3727
03:24:34,720 --> 03:24:38,040
Speaker 5: and risking like not just your safety, the safety everyone's

3728
03:24:38,040 --> 03:24:41,360
Speaker 5: safety just by remembering that you did it.

3729
03:24:41,480 --> 03:24:44,720
Speaker 8: No, you know, like these become standards and anarchist communities,

3730
03:24:44,760 --> 03:24:47,960
Speaker 8: like you never brag about something, you never allude to anything,

3731
03:24:48,120 --> 03:24:50,920
Speaker 8: like it's it's it's not it's it's not a game,

3732
03:24:51,240 --> 03:24:54,280
Speaker 8: like you're it's not a game, you're it is your

3733
03:24:54,560 --> 03:24:57,280
Speaker 8: your life and other people's lives on the line. When

3734
03:24:57,400 --> 03:25:00,440
Speaker 8: when when you're doing stuff like this and it's yeah,

3735
03:25:00,480 --> 03:25:04,200
Speaker 8: you never do it to like be cool. You never

3736
03:25:04,320 --> 03:25:06,320
Speaker 8: do it to brag about it like that. That's just

3737
03:25:06,520 --> 03:25:10,600
Speaker 8: not how this works, which is why there's like kind

3738
03:25:10,600 --> 03:25:12,800
Speaker 8: of a much more like kind of insular culture around

3739
03:25:12,959 --> 03:25:17,120
Speaker 8: some anarchists, especially anarchists to identify as like illegalists or

3740
03:25:17,240 --> 03:25:19,959
Speaker 8: like the types of like like green nihilists or green anarchists.

3741
03:25:19,959 --> 03:25:23,520
Speaker 8: That kind of pioneered the militancy of this movement, both

3742
03:25:23,920 --> 03:25:27,200
Speaker 8: slightly even slightly before the first city council vote and

3743
03:25:27,200 --> 03:25:29,440
Speaker 8: then definitely after the first city council vote where we

3744
03:25:29,520 --> 03:25:33,039
Speaker 8: saw a massive explosion no pun intended in the number

3745
03:25:33,760 --> 03:25:37,240
Speaker 8: of type of sabotages happening in the Wlani Forest. Yeah,

3746
03:25:37,800 --> 03:25:39,840
Speaker 8: which I think that drew a lot of anarchists do

3747
03:25:39,920 --> 03:25:43,240
Speaker 8: come to Atlanta because it was like, oh, they're doing a.

3748
03:25:43,280 --> 03:25:45,160
Speaker 5: Thing that's been the thing since the end of the

3749
03:25:45,240 --> 03:25:45,720
Speaker 5: Green Scare.

3750
03:25:45,879 --> 03:25:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3751
03:25:46,120 --> 03:25:48,200
Speaker 8: No, this is like the thing that I believe in

3752
03:25:48,280 --> 03:25:50,360
Speaker 8: that this is like this is my politics. Now there's

3753
03:25:50,360 --> 03:25:54,120
Speaker 8: a spot where I can do my politics and still

3754
03:25:54,280 --> 03:25:57,400
Speaker 8: no one's been caught for that. And I think that

3755
03:25:57,480 --> 03:25:59,080
Speaker 8: that was a big part of why Atlanta got so

3756
03:25:59,200 --> 03:26:01,440
Speaker 8: big last year, is that people have the ability to

3757
03:26:01,600 --> 03:26:04,600
Speaker 8: like live free in the forest and then do crazy

3758
03:26:04,640 --> 03:26:06,800
Speaker 8: shit at night. Like you can you live in this

3759
03:26:07,000 --> 03:26:11,360
Speaker 8: like autonomous zone during the day, you're able, whether you're

3760
03:26:11,520 --> 03:26:14,960
Speaker 8: you have housing instability, whether you just want like an

3761
03:26:15,160 --> 03:26:20,240
Speaker 8: escape from like horrible police state living like where in whatever,

3762
03:26:20,280 --> 03:26:22,200
Speaker 8: wherever the city you're in, you can go live in

3763
03:26:22,240 --> 03:26:24,320
Speaker 8: the Wilane Forest. You can live in a tent, you

3764
03:26:24,360 --> 03:26:27,600
Speaker 8: can have friends, you can defend this force during the day,

3765
03:26:27,640 --> 03:26:29,800
Speaker 8: and then you can do crazy, crazy shit at night.

3766
03:26:30,120 --> 03:26:32,480
Speaker 8: And that drew a lot of people to Atlanta, and

3767
03:26:32,560 --> 03:26:34,360
Speaker 8: now with the forest not being there, that that also

3768
03:26:34,480 --> 03:26:36,240
Speaker 8: changes that that changes the type of people who are

3769
03:26:36,280 --> 03:26:37,880
Speaker 8: come who are who want to come to the city

3770
03:26:38,280 --> 03:26:40,840
Speaker 8: because that that was a big draw for people and

3771
03:26:40,920 --> 03:26:42,880
Speaker 8: now that that's no longer an option, you can't really

3772
03:26:42,879 --> 03:26:45,920
Speaker 8: sleep in the Wilani Forest as easily anymore. Yeah, that

3773
03:26:46,080 --> 03:26:47,880
Speaker 8: changes the types of people who want to come to

3774
03:26:47,959 --> 03:26:51,000
Speaker 8: Atlanta and who are gonna like do crazy shit because

3775
03:26:51,800 --> 03:26:54,040
Speaker 8: that's just how and further own safety they're not here.

3776
03:26:54,240 --> 03:26:55,279
Speaker 11: Yeah, No, absolutely.

3777
03:26:55,920 --> 03:26:59,039
Speaker 8: As the referendum is hoping to stop cop City by

3778
03:26:59,160 --> 03:27:02,440
Speaker 8: having Atlantas voute on whether to cancel the land lease.

3779
03:27:03,160 --> 03:27:06,280
Speaker 8: Others in the Diverse movement have continued their efforts to

3780
03:27:06,360 --> 03:27:09,960
Speaker 8: pressure contractors and funders to drop out of the cop

3781
03:27:10,080 --> 03:27:14,480
Speaker 8: City project. This tactic has already demonstrated its ability to succeed,

3782
03:27:14,720 --> 03:27:17,160
Speaker 8: with Reeve's Young Construction dropping out of the project in

3783
03:27:17,240 --> 03:27:20,760
Speaker 8: April of twenty twenty two, and some material suppliers have

3784
03:27:20,920 --> 03:27:24,640
Speaker 8: since cut ties with cop City. This is something that

3785
03:27:24,879 --> 03:27:28,720
Speaker 8: APD Chief Darren Sheerbaum certainly seems worried about.

3786
03:27:29,440 --> 03:27:32,200
Speaker 20: This effort of fear was not going to succeed, and

3787
03:27:32,440 --> 03:27:35,840
Speaker 20: the coalition of law enforcement from the GBI to the FBI,

3788
03:27:35,959 --> 03:27:38,520
Speaker 20: to the ATF, Atlanta Police Department, and a slew of

3789
03:27:38,600 --> 03:27:42,200
Speaker 20: regional agencies is going to stop that campaign so it

3790
03:27:42,320 --> 03:27:44,199
Speaker 20: doesn't happen and individuals.

3791
03:27:43,840 --> 03:27:44,800
Speaker 2: Do not leave the project.

3792
03:27:45,400 --> 03:27:49,440
Speaker 8: On July second, protesters in Minnesota visited the homes of

3793
03:27:49,640 --> 03:27:54,880
Speaker 8: Atlas Technical Consultants employees during daylight. People marched around the

3794
03:27:54,920 --> 03:27:59,279
Speaker 8: neighborhoods with instruments and banners, knocked on doors, talked with neighbors,

3795
03:27:59,600 --> 03:28:02,439
Speaker 8: and lets a letter of demands to drop the contract

3796
03:28:02,560 --> 03:28:06,240
Speaker 8: and cut ties with the Atlanta Police Foundation. The project

3797
03:28:06,320 --> 03:28:10,000
Speaker 8: manager for Atlas Technical Consultants engaged with protesters in the

3798
03:28:10,040 --> 03:28:14,440
Speaker 8: street and told them that Atlas had indeed already dropped

3799
03:28:14,480 --> 03:28:16,720
Speaker 8: out of the project due to mounting pressure.

3800
03:28:17,760 --> 03:28:21,680
Speaker 13: Then we want Atlas is no longer involved.

3801
03:28:23,640 --> 03:28:25,520
Speaker 5: Why did they decide to get out of it?

3802
03:28:26,920 --> 03:28:28,120
Speaker 7: We stopped doing that.

3803
03:28:28,520 --> 03:28:33,360
Speaker 21: Why because you guys are fucking nightmares and you broke

3804
03:28:33,440 --> 03:28:38,000
Speaker 21: all our fucking windows. So I don't care what you

3805
03:28:38,080 --> 03:28:43,960
Speaker 21: want to say to my house and knock on my

3806
03:28:44,080 --> 03:28:48,160
Speaker 21: door and do this ship. My company is not involved

3807
03:28:48,160 --> 03:28:51,160
Speaker 21: in this, So get the fuck away from me, Okay.

3808
03:28:51,160 --> 03:28:51,800
Speaker 13: I'm glad.

3809
03:28:53,080 --> 03:28:58,560
Speaker 8: Get A few days later, Atlas and Long Engineering released

3810
03:28:58,680 --> 03:29:01,560
Speaker 8: an official statement saying that they would no longer be

3811
03:29:01,720 --> 03:29:05,640
Speaker 8: working on the cop City project. Anarchists and those on

3812
03:29:05,720 --> 03:29:08,360
Speaker 8: the left in general seem to have a hard time

3813
03:29:08,600 --> 03:29:11,960
Speaker 8: calling wins, but I'm not sure if it gets any

3814
03:29:12,080 --> 03:29:15,320
Speaker 8: more definitive than that audio clip in showing that this

3815
03:29:15,560 --> 03:29:18,600
Speaker 8: type of direct action can absolutely work in getting businesses

3816
03:29:18,760 --> 03:29:22,640
Speaker 8: to leave the project. In the next episode, we'll talk

3817
03:29:22,760 --> 03:29:25,760
Speaker 8: more about the referendum, the city's attempts to divide the

3818
03:29:25,840 --> 03:29:28,920
Speaker 8: movement and the growing pr battle over the fate of

3819
03:29:29,040 --> 03:29:43,240
Speaker 8: Cop City. See you on the other side, Welcome back

3820
03:29:43,320 --> 03:29:46,280
Speaker 8: to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, and this

3821
03:29:46,480 --> 03:29:49,520
Speaker 8: is the last episode in my trilogy covering what's been

3822
03:29:49,640 --> 03:29:54,000
Speaker 8: happening this summer in Atlanta to stop Cop City. Last

3823
03:29:54,040 --> 03:29:56,360
Speaker 8: episode we covered the end of the Week of Action,

3824
03:29:56,680 --> 03:30:00,680
Speaker 8: the resurgence of nighttime sabotage, and at Las long Engineering

3825
03:30:00,879 --> 03:30:05,000
Speaker 8: dropping out of the Cop City project. A relatively new,

3826
03:30:05,280 --> 03:30:08,040
Speaker 8: big aspect of the movement that I've really only mentioned

3827
03:30:08,080 --> 03:30:13,160
Speaker 8: peripherally is the Cop City vote referendum. The goal of

3828
03:30:13,200 --> 03:30:15,800
Speaker 8: the referendum is to let the people of Atlanta vote

3829
03:30:15,879 --> 03:30:19,320
Speaker 8: on whether to repeal an ordinance authorizing the land lease

3830
03:30:19,720 --> 03:30:22,119
Speaker 8: of three hundred and eighty one acres of forest into

3831
03:30:22,160 --> 03:30:24,800
Speaker 8: Cab County that was given to the Atlanta Police Foundation

3832
03:30:25,080 --> 03:30:27,840
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty one to use the land for the

3833
03:30:27,920 --> 03:30:31,560
Speaker 8: construction of Cop City. In order to get the referendum

3834
03:30:31,640 --> 03:30:34,360
Speaker 8: on an upcoming ballot, the petition had to gather sixty

3835
03:30:34,440 --> 03:30:38,959
Speaker 8: thousand signatures in sixty days. Every signature must be from

3836
03:30:39,120 --> 03:30:41,600
Speaker 8: an Atlanta resident who was registered to vote in twenty

3837
03:30:41,640 --> 03:30:44,920
Speaker 8: twenty one, and initially those who gathered signatures had to

3838
03:30:45,040 --> 03:30:49,160
Speaker 8: also be Atlanta residents. Sixty thousand signatures in sixty days

3839
03:30:49,440 --> 03:30:52,800
Speaker 8: was a lofty goal, but volunteers around the city were

3840
03:30:52,879 --> 03:30:56,560
Speaker 8: being increasingly mobilized during and after the week of action.

3841
03:30:57,640 --> 03:30:59,680
Speaker 8: For the first few weeks of the referendum, the city

3842
03:31:00,000 --> 03:31:03,880
Speaker 8: stayed mostly quiet, but then on the July fifth APD

3843
03:31:04,000 --> 03:31:07,720
Speaker 8: press conference, Mayor Andre Dickens addressed the referendum.

3844
03:31:08,640 --> 03:31:11,840
Speaker 9: Man, are some of these protesters and posts of the

3845
03:31:11,879 --> 03:31:14,320
Speaker 9: training center have bigger collecting signatures in the hope of

3846
03:31:14,480 --> 03:31:17,520
Speaker 9: having a referendum putting the November boundary. What's your reaction

3847
03:31:17,600 --> 03:31:17,760
Speaker 9: to that?

3848
03:31:17,840 --> 03:31:18,720
Speaker 7: What's your comment on that?

3849
03:31:19,360 --> 03:31:21,920
Speaker 9: Will you allow them to do what they're doing right

3850
03:31:21,959 --> 03:31:24,440
Speaker 9: now and constantly have the referendum?

3851
03:31:25,000 --> 03:31:28,440
Speaker 10: Absolutely, the referendum process is one that's legally documented. It's

3852
03:31:28,520 --> 03:31:31,760
Speaker 10: in the city code, and anybody can attempt to get

3853
03:31:31,800 --> 03:31:35,680
Speaker 10: the petition going and get the necessary signatures. We asked

3854
03:31:35,680 --> 03:31:38,440
Speaker 10: that they do so with honesty and truth, collect the

3855
03:31:38,480 --> 03:31:42,280
Speaker 10: signatures from real people, with sharing the truth about what

3856
03:31:42,480 --> 03:31:47,160
Speaker 10: they are looking to do. And so I don't personally

3857
03:31:47,200 --> 03:31:49,880
Speaker 10: believe they're going to be successful. I believe that based

3858
03:31:49,920 --> 03:31:52,080
Speaker 10: on what we know about the citizens of Atlanta. They

3859
03:31:52,080 --> 03:31:54,400
Speaker 10: are a supportive of the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center.

3860
03:31:54,640 --> 03:31:57,000
Speaker 10: We know that this is going to be unsuccessful if

3861
03:31:57,080 --> 03:32:01,440
Speaker 10: it's done honestly, and so we're making sure that we

3862
03:32:01,560 --> 03:32:02,920
Speaker 10: continue to monitor the process.

3863
03:32:03,320 --> 03:32:07,280
Speaker 8: This statement by the Democrat mayor of Atlanta, I don't

3864
03:32:07,320 --> 03:32:11,040
Speaker 8: think has been highlighted enough. The mayor is trying to

3865
03:32:11,160 --> 03:32:16,440
Speaker 8: frame a successful referendum as a fraudulent one. Dickens is

3866
03:32:16,520 --> 03:32:20,360
Speaker 8: priming propaganda channels and testing the waters for blatant election

3867
03:32:20,520 --> 03:32:24,480
Speaker 8: fraud style messaging in the future by very clearly insinuating

3868
03:32:24,560 --> 03:32:27,480
Speaker 8: that if you win this, that means you're cheating.

3869
03:32:27,920 --> 03:32:31,000
Speaker 5: The referendum kept popping up like throughout the Week of

3870
03:32:31,080 --> 03:32:33,520
Speaker 5: Action without it was ling up space.

3871
03:32:33,600 --> 03:32:34,959
Speaker 2: It was never it was never, never the focus.

3872
03:32:35,080 --> 03:32:36,560
Speaker 11: It was always just like on the sideline.

3873
03:32:36,640 --> 03:32:39,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it was everywhere, Like every I think every

3874
03:32:39,400 --> 03:32:41,840
Speaker 5: event the referendum was in some way, shape or form.

3875
03:32:42,200 --> 03:32:46,120
Speaker 5: You know, they're like the Home Depot rally and people

3876
03:32:46,160 --> 03:32:49,480
Speaker 5: walking by they were talking about the referendum and talking

3877
03:32:49,520 --> 03:32:51,200
Speaker 5: about the Week of Action collecting signatures.

3878
03:32:51,480 --> 03:32:53,039
Speaker 8: It did not feel like it was taking space away

3879
03:32:53,040 --> 03:32:56,680
Speaker 8: from any of the other aspects of the movement. I'm

3880
03:32:56,680 --> 03:32:58,880
Speaker 8: trying to I think some people were definitely worried about that,

3881
03:32:58,959 --> 03:33:01,600
Speaker 8: Like people worried that the referendum might act as like

3882
03:33:01,640 --> 03:33:05,320
Speaker 8: a release sylve for both the movement and like the

3883
03:33:05,360 --> 03:33:06,880
Speaker 8: people who are like out of the movement and still

3884
03:33:06,920 --> 03:33:08,840
Speaker 8: like looking at cop City being like, how can you

3885
03:33:08,879 --> 03:33:09,680
Speaker 8: get involved.

3886
03:33:09,360 --> 03:33:09,720
Speaker 11: In this thing?

3887
03:33:09,800 --> 03:33:12,880
Speaker 8: And you see this like very like above for electoral

3888
03:33:12,959 --> 03:33:15,520
Speaker 8: strategy of planning stuff like what if people's efforts just

3889
03:33:15,560 --> 03:33:17,800
Speaker 8: get funneled into that and they missed that on the

3890
03:33:17,879 --> 03:33:19,840
Speaker 8: other much more expansive aspects.

3891
03:33:19,480 --> 03:33:19,959
Speaker 11: Of the movement.

3892
03:33:20,520 --> 03:33:23,760
Speaker 8: One of the few more referendum focused events during the

3893
03:33:23,800 --> 03:33:27,480
Speaker 8: Week of Action was a community town hall discussion put

3894
03:33:27,520 --> 03:33:30,480
Speaker 8: on by the Hip Hop Caucus at the Gathering Spot

3895
03:33:30,959 --> 03:33:35,760
Speaker 8: on the evening of Friday, June thirtieth. Before the panel discussion,

3896
03:33:36,040 --> 03:33:39,880
Speaker 8: myself and Matt from the Atlantic Community Press Collective talked

3897
03:33:39,920 --> 03:33:42,160
Speaker 8: with two members of the Hip Hop Caucus about the

3898
03:33:42,240 --> 03:33:46,840
Speaker 8: event and their hopes for the referendum. This is Brandy Williams,

3899
03:33:47,160 --> 03:33:48,879
Speaker 8: an organizer with the Hip Hop Caucus.

3900
03:33:49,400 --> 03:33:52,080
Speaker 22: So the Hip Hop Coccus is a national nonpart is

3901
03:33:52,120 --> 03:33:55,879
Speaker 22: a nonprofit organization that uses hip hop culture to connect

3902
03:33:56,000 --> 03:33:59,640
Speaker 22: people to the civic and political process and essentially we

3903
03:33:59,720 --> 03:34:02,080
Speaker 22: do that in four areas. We do that with I

3904
03:34:02,120 --> 03:34:05,800
Speaker 22: think one hundred percent climbate and environmental justice work. We

3905
03:34:05,959 --> 03:34:09,520
Speaker 22: were founded as a voting and democracy organization out of

3906
03:34:09,560 --> 03:34:12,640
Speaker 22: the Voter Die movement, so we still do that work

3907
03:34:12,720 --> 03:34:15,640
Speaker 22: under our respect My Vote platform. We also have our

3908
03:34:15,680 --> 03:34:18,760
Speaker 22: Good Trouble civil and human rights work. It's our multi

3909
03:34:18,840 --> 03:34:21,440
Speaker 22: isssue platform and we look at it as the justice

3910
03:34:21,440 --> 03:34:23,840
Speaker 22: department for hip hop, so we do it. We work

3911
03:34:23,879 --> 03:34:28,280
Speaker 22: on everything from police reform to education and healthcare, and

3912
03:34:28,400 --> 03:34:30,640
Speaker 22: then our Justice Paid in Full, which is our economic

3913
03:34:30,840 --> 03:34:35,280
Speaker 22: justice platform, So how do we achieve economic justice. We

3914
03:34:35,600 --> 03:34:39,480
Speaker 22: actually started our activation like on the groundwork in LA

3915
03:34:39,600 --> 03:34:42,360
Speaker 22: last week during bet weekend, so we did a similar

3916
03:34:42,440 --> 03:34:45,160
Speaker 22: event in LA. We're doing this one here and we're

3917
03:34:45,200 --> 03:34:48,200
Speaker 22: planning to be here in Atlanta and through the referendum

3918
03:34:48,320 --> 03:34:49,400
Speaker 22: and through the election.

3919
03:34:50,120 --> 03:34:53,280
Speaker 8: We also talked with Theondajaha Lone Wolf and Atlanta resident

3920
03:34:53,600 --> 03:34:57,000
Speaker 8: and national community organizer. Recently she had been working de

3921
03:34:57,080 --> 03:34:59,760
Speaker 8: spread awareness across the country about what's been going on

3922
03:35:00,040 --> 03:35:00,640
Speaker 8: in Atlanta.

3923
03:35:01,200 --> 03:35:05,279
Speaker 13: Myself, hip Hop Quark is movement for Black Lives until Freedom,

3924
03:35:06,200 --> 03:35:09,119
Speaker 13: community movement builders. We all came up with this idea

3925
03:35:09,280 --> 03:35:14,760
Speaker 13: to to create this photo shoot campaign similar to voter

3926
03:35:15,000 --> 03:35:17,560
Speaker 13: Die or in anything, you know, with these where you

3927
03:35:17,680 --> 03:35:19,800
Speaker 13: have a nice shirt or a sticker and you're taking

3928
03:35:20,240 --> 03:35:23,440
Speaker 13: and just being there in solidarity. So we s did

3929
03:35:23,480 --> 03:35:27,320
Speaker 13: it during La BT Awards weekend last weekend. We had

3930
03:35:27,360 --> 03:35:29,720
Speaker 13: a nice turnout of folks that came. I was in

3931
03:35:29,879 --> 03:35:32,200
Speaker 13: LA for the Hollywood Climate Summit. I spoke on the

3932
03:35:32,280 --> 03:35:34,640
Speaker 13: panel with Jane Fonda, so there was a lot of

3933
03:35:34,720 --> 03:35:37,120
Speaker 13: people from Hollywood that came and said, oh my god,

3934
03:35:37,200 --> 03:35:40,600
Speaker 13: that's what's happening in in Georgia. We have to be

3935
03:35:40,840 --> 03:35:44,360
Speaker 13: if we cannot sign for on the referendum, but we

3936
03:35:44,480 --> 03:35:47,720
Speaker 13: w we stand with you all because what we are

3937
03:35:47,879 --> 03:35:51,280
Speaker 13: also educating people at is that if Cop City is built,

3938
03:35:51,959 --> 03:35:56,560
Speaker 13: they already having contracts with police nationally to come here.

3939
03:35:56,879 --> 03:36:00,600
Speaker 13: This would be the largest farm police training facility in

3940
03:36:00,680 --> 03:36:06,000
Speaker 13: the United States. I went to Universal Studios, Hollywood, Universal Studios.

3941
03:36:06,200 --> 03:36:11,600
Speaker 13: Roller Coaster's huge, just nice. It's four hundred acres. That's

3942
03:36:12,000 --> 03:36:15,840
Speaker 13: fifty acres less will be Cop City then, you know,

3943
03:36:16,000 --> 03:36:20,840
Speaker 13: and I'm like, that's an amusement park of nothing but real,

3944
03:36:21,600 --> 03:36:26,600
Speaker 13: real gunfire, real bombs, real real everything. It's not gonna

3945
03:36:26,600 --> 03:36:29,680
Speaker 13: be fake. It's not amusement park in that way, but

3946
03:36:30,080 --> 03:36:31,560
Speaker 13: this is their call of duty.

3947
03:36:31,360 --> 03:36:33,520
Speaker 5: In real life, and it's in the middle of a

3948
03:36:33,560 --> 03:36:34,560
Speaker 5: residential neighborhood.

3949
03:36:34,600 --> 03:36:37,680
Speaker 13: They're not here to protect and serve. They're here to

3950
03:36:37,959 --> 03:36:40,680
Speaker 13: shoot to kill. And so police from all across this

3951
03:36:40,840 --> 03:36:44,359
Speaker 13: nation will be coming here to Georgia for this militarized

3952
03:36:44,400 --> 03:36:49,080
Speaker 13: police training and that's a problem for me. And the

3953
03:36:49,240 --> 03:36:52,560
Speaker 13: turnout in California showed that that's a problem for them too.

3954
03:36:53,080 --> 03:36:54,920
Speaker 13: So we had a lot of people that came for that,

3955
03:36:55,080 --> 03:36:57,320
Speaker 13: and today we're doing the same thing and we're having

3956
03:36:57,360 --> 03:37:00,680
Speaker 13: a community town hall discussion because I think there's a

3957
03:37:00,680 --> 03:37:04,080
Speaker 13: lot of people that don't understand why is cop city

3958
03:37:04,480 --> 03:37:07,840
Speaker 13: because the mayor. I want to meet the mayor's publicists

3959
03:37:08,320 --> 03:37:11,440
Speaker 13: because the way that this whole thing has been spinned

3960
03:37:11,959 --> 03:37:14,080
Speaker 13: on his side that no, it would be great for

3961
03:37:14,200 --> 03:37:18,360
Speaker 13: the EMT and the firefighters, and and they're pushing EMT

3962
03:37:18,520 --> 03:37:21,959
Speaker 13: firefighters more than the police part, but the police part

3963
03:37:22,080 --> 03:37:24,880
Speaker 13: is a huge part. I think these type of conversations

3964
03:37:24,959 --> 03:37:26,880
Speaker 13: need to be talked about, and so that's what this

3965
03:37:27,000 --> 03:37:29,560
Speaker 13: community town hall is all about as well. For those

3966
03:37:29,640 --> 03:37:32,800
Speaker 13: that are kind of wavering neutral, maybe don't know, maybe

3967
03:37:32,840 --> 03:37:35,080
Speaker 13: they know it a lot, you know, because the number

3968
03:37:35,080 --> 03:37:37,000
Speaker 13: one thing that we've been seeing, like I was on

3969
03:37:37,120 --> 03:37:39,640
Speaker 13: V one oh three yesterday on the radio station, and

3970
03:37:40,840 --> 03:37:43,400
Speaker 13: I also have been doing a couple of other media

3971
03:37:43,520 --> 03:37:46,560
Speaker 13: and call ins, and a lot of people don't understand,

3972
03:37:47,480 --> 03:37:50,039
Speaker 13: like they a lot of people don't understand, like why

3973
03:37:50,200 --> 03:37:52,600
Speaker 13: is this a bad thing? You know, you can move

3974
03:37:52,640 --> 03:37:56,000
Speaker 13: it somewhere else, they say. But even if it's moved

3975
03:37:56,040 --> 03:37:58,960
Speaker 13: somewhere else, I'm still gonna fight against cop city, you know,

3976
03:37:59,320 --> 03:38:02,640
Speaker 13: just because I have this hits home for me too.

3977
03:38:02,720 --> 03:38:04,840
Speaker 13: Many of my friends and family have been murdered by

3978
03:38:04,879 --> 03:38:10,400
Speaker 13: the hands of radical power hungry, gun happy, trigger happy

3979
03:38:10,560 --> 03:38:13,680
Speaker 13: police officers. And I feel that there is and then

3980
03:38:13,720 --> 03:38:18,320
Speaker 13: also another thing too, there is answers, you know, in

3981
03:38:18,480 --> 03:38:22,640
Speaker 13: regards to we don't need more police, we need resources.

3982
03:38:22,879 --> 03:38:27,040
Speaker 13: They shut down our hospital, they shut down the shelters.

3983
03:38:27,200 --> 03:38:29,920
Speaker 13: It's not like they don't know, right, Like we tell them,

3984
03:38:30,560 --> 03:38:34,560
Speaker 13: we need more jobs, not just any job, good quality jobs.

3985
03:38:34,680 --> 03:38:38,200
Speaker 13: We need pristine health care, not just affordable healthcare. And

3986
03:38:38,280 --> 03:38:43,040
Speaker 13: then most importantly, it just are unsheltered friends to see

3987
03:38:43,080 --> 03:38:47,920
Speaker 13: that they put bulldozers. They this administration, this city continues

3988
03:38:48,040 --> 03:38:54,520
Speaker 13: to ignore, ignore, the people. We have the hugest, the

3989
03:38:54,640 --> 03:38:58,680
Speaker 13: biggest wealth gap in the nation. They and they call

3990
03:38:58,800 --> 03:39:03,400
Speaker 13: it Wakanda, the blackest city. But if this is how

3991
03:39:03,480 --> 03:39:08,080
Speaker 13: you treat us, our people, our people need resources. That's

3992
03:39:08,160 --> 03:39:10,920
Speaker 13: where this sixty seven million dollars should be going. It

3993
03:39:10,959 --> 03:39:14,120
Speaker 13: should not be going towards a more police. We don't

3994
03:39:14,160 --> 03:39:16,720
Speaker 13: need more police because when you go to Cobb County,

3995
03:39:17,480 --> 03:39:20,280
Speaker 13: when you go over to Alpharetta, they don't have a

3996
03:39:20,320 --> 03:39:23,080
Speaker 13: lot of police. They don't have a lot of Why

3997
03:39:23,120 --> 03:39:25,520
Speaker 13: would they mean a lot of police because they already

3998
03:39:25,600 --> 03:39:26,599
Speaker 13: got the resources.

3999
03:39:27,240 --> 03:39:30,200
Speaker 8: On top of the community town hall discussion, there were

4000
03:39:30,280 --> 03:39:31,960
Speaker 8: a few other things to do at the event that

4001
03:39:32,040 --> 03:39:33,199
Speaker 8: Euanajaha talked about.

4002
03:39:33,600 --> 03:39:36,840
Speaker 13: Stop cop City photo campaign, So everyone you come and

4003
03:39:36,920 --> 03:39:40,360
Speaker 13: take your photo and just showing that you stand in solidarity,

4004
03:39:40,520 --> 03:39:43,199
Speaker 13: and then most importantly is to get some signatures as.

4005
03:39:43,120 --> 03:39:47,480
Speaker 8: Well throughout the referendum process. It's been interesting how many people,

4006
03:39:47,680 --> 03:39:51,240
Speaker 8: even in Atlanta are just now learning about cop City.

4007
03:39:52,440 --> 03:39:53,920
Speaker 5: When did you first hear about cop City?

4008
03:39:55,480 --> 03:40:02,000
Speaker 22: Honestly earlier this year, And and like a lot of

4009
03:40:02,080 --> 03:40:06,960
Speaker 22: the people that I am talking to now, I was

4010
03:40:07,080 --> 03:40:12,760
Speaker 22: also kind of confused about the issue. I wasn't really

4011
03:40:13,040 --> 03:40:17,960
Speaker 22: sure why you know, they were so opposed until I

4012
03:40:18,040 --> 03:40:21,680
Speaker 22: started learning a little more about what actually was going

4013
03:40:21,760 --> 03:40:26,160
Speaker 22: to happen at this training facility. So, the idea of

4014
03:40:26,320 --> 03:40:30,360
Speaker 22: building a mini city with the helicopter landing pad with

4015
03:40:30,680 --> 03:40:35,240
Speaker 22: a shooting range or a firing range military grade in

4016
03:40:35,600 --> 03:40:38,400
Speaker 22: a community. So this is not on the outskirts. This

4017
03:40:38,560 --> 03:40:41,360
Speaker 22: is in a community and in a community of color,

4018
03:40:41,760 --> 03:40:44,760
Speaker 22: and you're bringing police from around the country in to

4019
03:40:45,040 --> 03:40:50,480
Speaker 22: learn military tactics, tactics that we use in foreign countries

4020
03:40:50,560 --> 03:40:55,200
Speaker 22: to protect citizens. We should not be thinking about our citizens,

4021
03:40:55,280 --> 03:41:00,320
Speaker 22: our residents as people who need to be protect did

4022
03:41:00,959 --> 03:41:03,600
Speaker 22: from them sales, if I'm making sense, you know what

4023
03:41:03,640 --> 03:41:03,920
Speaker 22: I mean.

4024
03:41:04,040 --> 03:41:07,160
Speaker 5: So it's sort of like enemy combatants in your own

4025
03:41:07,520 --> 03:41:08,000
Speaker 5: and you're.

4026
03:41:07,879 --> 03:41:11,640
Speaker 22: All backyard, but you're training them up in a black community.

4027
03:41:11,720 --> 03:41:14,600
Speaker 22: So I can only imagine that some of that many

4028
03:41:14,640 --> 03:41:17,400
Speaker 22: cities going to spill over into the communities. Then you're

4029
03:41:17,440 --> 03:41:20,960
Speaker 22: bringing police officers from around the country here, so they're

4030
03:41:21,040 --> 03:41:21,920
Speaker 22: taking that back.

4031
03:41:22,640 --> 03:41:25,879
Speaker 8: The specific community where the Atlanta Police Foundation is trying

4032
03:41:25,879 --> 03:41:29,000
Speaker 8: to build cop City has already been traumatized by the

4033
03:41:29,080 --> 03:41:30,160
Speaker 8: violence of the state.

4034
03:41:30,040 --> 03:41:31,280
Speaker 2: For hundreds of years.

4035
03:41:31,360 --> 03:41:31,480
Speaker 10: Now.

4036
03:41:32,440 --> 03:41:37,000
Speaker 8: This whole area was violently stolen from Muskogee Creek. Then

4037
03:41:37,160 --> 03:41:39,880
Speaker 8: it became a slave plantation, and then part of it

4038
03:41:40,000 --> 03:41:42,000
Speaker 8: was sold to the city of Atlanta, and then it

4039
03:41:42,040 --> 03:41:45,600
Speaker 8: became a prison farm. Since then, the land has been

4040
03:41:45,640 --> 03:41:50,040
Speaker 8: home to two landfills and three detention facilities. This is

4041
03:41:50,120 --> 03:41:53,039
Speaker 8: the history of just this neighborhood for the last few

4042
03:41:53,160 --> 03:41:56,720
Speaker 8: hundred years. Now the car sort of violence inflicted on

4043
03:41:56,800 --> 03:42:00,040
Speaker 8: this land is attempting to be exported as police the

4044
03:42:00,040 --> 03:42:02,920
Speaker 8: Beast will soon come from around the country and even

4045
03:42:02,959 --> 03:42:05,320
Speaker 8: the world to train at copp City.

4046
03:42:05,800 --> 03:42:07,720
Speaker 22: No one wants it in their community, but you're going

4047
03:42:07,760 --> 03:42:12,040
Speaker 22: to continue to burden this particular community with the same

4048
03:42:12,200 --> 03:42:15,680
Speaker 22: thing over and over and over again. The people of

4049
03:42:15,800 --> 03:42:19,560
Speaker 22: that community for generations have experienced all kinds of harm

4050
03:42:20,200 --> 03:42:23,920
Speaker 22: at the hands of the people that they supposedly are

4051
03:42:24,120 --> 03:42:27,879
Speaker 22: electing to represent and protect them from these types of things,

4052
03:42:28,120 --> 03:42:30,360
Speaker 22: and they're actually the ones doing it to them. You

4053
03:42:30,480 --> 03:42:33,840
Speaker 22: were elected by people to represent them, and they've told

4054
03:42:33,920 --> 03:42:36,120
Speaker 22: you for two years, we don't want this, and you

4055
03:42:36,280 --> 03:42:37,400
Speaker 22: are ignoring their voice.

4056
03:42:38,160 --> 03:42:41,039
Speaker 8: On the day of the Hip Hopcoccus panel and their

4057
03:42:41,160 --> 03:42:44,720
Speaker 8: quality alert was issued due to incoming smoke from wildfires

4058
03:42:44,840 --> 03:42:48,800
Speaker 8: up north in Atlanta. The AQI reached one hundred and

4059
03:42:48,920 --> 03:42:50,520
Speaker 8: fifty the ocean.

4060
03:42:50,680 --> 03:42:54,200
Speaker 13: These fish, these birds, they're screaming at us right now.

4061
03:42:54,800 --> 03:42:57,880
Speaker 13: What we are doing to Mother Earth right now is

4062
03:42:58,120 --> 03:43:03,560
Speaker 13: we are from cutting down the trees, fossil fuels, everything,

4063
03:43:04,360 --> 03:43:07,360
Speaker 13: this is, this is, and especially this being the lungs

4064
03:43:07,879 --> 03:43:11,680
Speaker 13: of Atlanta today, I'm wearing my mask because on my

4065
03:43:11,840 --> 03:43:15,440
Speaker 13: weather advisory it said it said the air quality is

4066
03:43:15,560 --> 03:43:20,480
Speaker 13: not good today for sensitive people. And that is just

4067
03:43:20,840 --> 03:43:25,360
Speaker 13: with the trees, and they keep on cutting down these trees.

4068
03:43:25,720 --> 03:43:28,200
Speaker 13: I moved here because of the trees. I'm from Arizona,

4069
03:43:28,320 --> 03:43:31,240
Speaker 13: so I needed trees. That was nothing but desert. But

4070
03:43:31,320 --> 03:43:34,119
Speaker 13: I moved here because of these trees, because I love

4071
03:43:34,240 --> 03:43:37,320
Speaker 13: the life force that trees give us. Even when we

4072
03:43:37,400 --> 03:43:41,240
Speaker 13: see a tree, the earth is talking back to us, saying,

4073
03:43:41,680 --> 03:43:46,680
Speaker 13: stop doing what you're doing. The dolphins, the orcas, the wells,

4074
03:43:46,800 --> 03:43:50,760
Speaker 13: they're all migrant. They're like, you're the ocean is hot

4075
03:43:50,920 --> 03:43:54,920
Speaker 13: right now, so they are they're yelling at us. And

4076
03:43:54,959 --> 03:43:59,320
Speaker 13: when not listening. And as a native in my native way,

4077
03:44:00,000 --> 03:44:03,200
Speaker 13: our elders, our chiefs have said that we plan for

4078
03:44:03,360 --> 03:44:06,959
Speaker 13: seven generations from now. I am a mother of two

4079
03:44:07,080 --> 03:44:11,680
Speaker 13: sons and what this administration is doing and what these

4080
03:44:11,720 --> 03:44:15,240
Speaker 13: corporations are doing. They're not looking at seven generations from now.

4081
03:44:15,720 --> 03:44:17,920
Speaker 13: They're not looking at how this is going to affect

4082
03:44:18,040 --> 03:44:20,920
Speaker 13: us on the long run. And I love the fact

4083
03:44:21,000 --> 03:44:24,720
Speaker 13: of everyone that is standing firm and saying stop cop

4084
03:44:24,840 --> 03:44:28,120
Speaker 13: City because we see the vision. We know what this

4085
03:44:28,720 --> 03:44:31,040
Speaker 13: Uchi Marka, this mother Earth is going to look like

4086
03:44:31,640 --> 03:44:34,840
Speaker 13: seven generations from now. And we're fighting to our death

4087
03:44:35,600 --> 03:44:37,959
Speaker 13: because of the fact that we want to make sure

4088
03:44:38,360 --> 03:44:42,240
Speaker 13: that our children's children's children's children could still live here

4089
03:44:42,600 --> 03:44:45,879
Speaker 13: and be in a peaceful, safe place and environment to live.

4090
03:44:46,800 --> 03:44:50,840
Speaker 8: Since being elected as the Progressive candidate in twenty twenty one,

4091
03:44:51,440 --> 03:44:55,320
Speaker 8: there's been an ever growing animosity towards Mayor Dickens from

4092
03:44:55,440 --> 03:45:00,160
Speaker 8: all of his unfulfilled promises. When talking with Nashaha, she

4093
03:45:00,400 --> 03:45:03,840
Speaker 8: expressed that she felt disappointed that herself and this big

4094
03:45:04,080 --> 03:45:08,480
Speaker 8: block of people helped Andre get elected and now Mayor

4095
03:45:08,600 --> 03:45:12,160
Speaker 8: Dickens is fully committed to the cop City project and

4096
03:45:12,480 --> 03:45:14,960
Speaker 8: is even having conversations with other black leaders in the

4097
03:45:15,040 --> 03:45:17,680
Speaker 8: city to bring them on board and prevent them from

4098
03:45:17,720 --> 03:45:18,959
Speaker 8: opposing Cop City.

4099
03:45:19,520 --> 03:45:23,080
Speaker 13: The mayor is in his position because of the blood,

4100
03:45:23,520 --> 03:45:27,120
Speaker 13: sweat and tears and arrest and beat ups that we

4101
03:45:27,360 --> 03:45:31,840
Speaker 13: got during freedom summer twenty twenty. He used the social

4102
03:45:32,200 --> 03:45:36,840
Speaker 13: justice the civil rights organizations and activists and voices to

4103
03:45:36,959 --> 03:45:39,360
Speaker 13: get him in the position that he used them and say,

4104
03:45:39,480 --> 03:45:41,879
Speaker 13: y'all help me. I'm going to be there for you all,

4105
03:45:42,800 --> 03:45:45,840
Speaker 13: And it's all a slap in the face. So I

4106
03:45:45,920 --> 03:45:50,560
Speaker 13: don't like hypocrisy. And I see hypocrites all throughout this

4107
03:45:51,040 --> 03:45:55,200
Speaker 13: and on this administration side, from the governor all the

4108
03:45:55,240 --> 03:45:58,600
Speaker 13: way down, even when we try to help our unsheltered friends.

4109
03:45:59,160 --> 03:46:02,960
Speaker 13: In December, when it was so cold out here, I

4110
03:46:03,080 --> 03:46:05,920
Speaker 13: went on social media. I raised five thousand dollars in

4111
03:46:06,000 --> 03:46:09,480
Speaker 13: two hours. I went and went, Me and my friends

4112
03:46:09,600 --> 03:46:15,480
Speaker 13: went and got them all tents, tents, sleeping bags, everything.

4113
03:46:16,320 --> 03:46:19,480
Speaker 13: The mayor called my comrade. Mayor Andre called my comrade

4114
03:46:19,520 --> 03:46:21,480
Speaker 13: and was all like, why are you saying that they

4115
03:46:21,560 --> 03:46:24,280
Speaker 13: don't have no heating stations? And I set up a

4116
03:46:24,360 --> 03:46:27,960
Speaker 13: heating station. Not everyone wants to go there, because so

4117
03:46:28,280 --> 03:46:32,200
Speaker 13: is there. Where is your mental health services? Where's the

4118
03:46:32,320 --> 03:46:35,840
Speaker 13: transitioning team that you should have on the ground to

4119
03:46:36,000 --> 03:46:40,480
Speaker 13: help transition them. Don't just open up a temporary heating shelter.

4120
03:46:40,959 --> 03:46:43,160
Speaker 13: Where's the transition team to go and talk to the

4121
03:46:43,200 --> 03:46:45,680
Speaker 13: people of saying, hey, let me walk you in to

4122
03:46:45,800 --> 03:46:48,200
Speaker 13: go get heated. There was none of that. You're just

4123
03:46:48,320 --> 03:46:50,680
Speaker 13: expecting people to just go in there or they knew.

4124
03:46:50,480 --> 03:46:51,080
Speaker 7: Where it was at.

4125
03:46:51,320 --> 03:46:53,800
Speaker 13: So we went to the cab. We went to the

4126
03:46:53,879 --> 03:46:56,760
Speaker 13: cab and we also went down to Atlanta. We gave

4127
03:46:56,800 --> 03:46:59,800
Speaker 13: them tents. The police went down there. The Atlanta PD

4128
03:47:00,320 --> 03:47:03,040
Speaker 13: went down there and put holes all in their tents.

4129
03:47:03,400 --> 03:47:07,080
Speaker 13: They slight, They used a knife and put and slice

4130
03:47:07,120 --> 03:47:09,360
Speaker 13: their tents open so it wouldn't they couldn't even stay

4131
03:47:09,400 --> 03:47:14,320
Speaker 13: in it. Yes, yes, while it was still below freezing.

4132
03:47:15,760 --> 03:47:20,760
Speaker 13: This is all under the administration of Mayor Andre. So no,

4133
03:47:20,879 --> 03:47:22,840
Speaker 13: we can't trust We can't trust them.

4134
03:47:22,920 --> 03:47:25,000
Speaker 5: Do you feel betrayed by Andre? Yes?

4135
03:47:25,000 --> 03:47:28,280
Speaker 13: Because I voted for him. I voted for him. I

4136
03:47:28,440 --> 03:47:30,520
Speaker 13: voted for him because I think I voted for him

4137
03:47:30,680 --> 03:47:35,000
Speaker 13: like every other person voted for vote for someone. Is

4138
03:47:35,080 --> 03:47:41,000
Speaker 13: that their charismatic They talk an amazing game, and on

4139
03:47:41,160 --> 03:47:45,000
Speaker 13: top of it, my friends that were close with him

4140
03:47:45,080 --> 03:47:48,640
Speaker 13: vote for him. My friends in the movement after this,

4141
03:47:49,520 --> 03:47:53,480
Speaker 13: people that I look up to from as mentorship, they said, man, Andre,

4142
03:47:53,959 --> 03:47:57,040
Speaker 13: he's gonna he's gonna have fund a lot of the

4143
03:47:57,120 --> 03:47:58,000
Speaker 13: things that we're doing.

4144
03:47:58,400 --> 03:48:01,800
Speaker 8: Leonaja Haw spoke about how many Dickens works to build

4145
03:48:01,959 --> 03:48:06,080
Speaker 8: mutually beneficial relationships between the city and non governmental quote

4146
03:48:06,160 --> 03:48:11,520
Speaker 8: unquote progressive organizations. So while some NGOs have received money

4147
03:48:11,600 --> 03:48:14,680
Speaker 8: from the city, now many of these big quote unquote

4148
03:48:14,720 --> 03:48:18,920
Speaker 8: civil rights orgs are scared of jeopardizing potential funding and

4149
03:48:19,040 --> 03:48:22,720
Speaker 8: are now currently refusing to speak out against cop City.

4150
03:48:23,080 --> 03:48:24,760
Speaker 13: Yeah. When I talked so, the same people that have

4151
03:48:24,879 --> 03:48:28,640
Speaker 13: spoken to Andre are the same people. I'm like, why

4152
03:48:28,680 --> 03:48:34,120
Speaker 13: don't you involved, you know, and they're just like, I

4153
03:48:34,200 --> 03:48:36,959
Speaker 13: think it's going to be built, and at least I'm

4154
03:48:36,959 --> 03:48:39,000
Speaker 13: at the table. A lot of them think that way.

4155
03:48:39,120 --> 03:48:40,920
Speaker 13: They was like, I was there at the beginning fighting,

4156
03:48:41,240 --> 03:48:43,360
Speaker 13: I had to sit down with the mayor. I believe

4157
03:48:43,400 --> 03:48:44,800
Speaker 13: this is going to be built. So since this is

4158
03:48:44,840 --> 03:48:46,800
Speaker 13: going to be built, let me figure out at least

4159
03:48:46,840 --> 03:48:49,920
Speaker 13: I'm at the table in the community and there's community engagement.

4160
03:48:49,920 --> 03:48:53,199
Speaker 13: At least there's some type of ridging happening. That's their angle.

4161
03:48:53,800 --> 03:48:57,840
Speaker 13: Anyone that said Black Lives Matter was on the front

4162
03:48:57,879 --> 03:49:01,400
Speaker 13: line with us in twenty twenty, that that was horrified

4163
03:49:01,920 --> 03:49:05,400
Speaker 13: by the videos that they saw this we are at

4164
03:49:05,520 --> 03:49:11,320
Speaker 13: prime time. This is the epicenter of police terrorism being built.

4165
03:49:12,760 --> 03:49:15,760
Speaker 13: This is it, this is this is it.

4166
03:49:16,280 --> 03:49:17,680
Speaker 2: This is not each individual.

4167
03:49:17,800 --> 03:49:21,200
Speaker 13: We're trying to prevent more families, because if they build this,

4168
03:49:21,400 --> 03:49:24,480
Speaker 13: it's gonna be a lot more families that's gonna be

4169
03:49:24,560 --> 03:49:28,360
Speaker 13: crying and saying, they killed my baby. So we're out

4170
03:49:28,440 --> 03:49:32,000
Speaker 13: the epicenter of a cop city and you are silent.

4171
03:49:33,160 --> 03:49:37,400
Speaker 13: You're silent, But you was there for these families. You

4172
03:49:37,600 --> 03:49:41,320
Speaker 13: was there posting black lives matter. You was there saying

4173
03:49:41,400 --> 03:49:46,080
Speaker 13: stop police terrorism. But they're building a they're building a

4174
03:49:46,280 --> 03:49:51,120
Speaker 13: terrorist headquarters, and you don't have nothing to say. You're

4175
03:49:51,160 --> 03:49:55,400
Speaker 13: a hypocrite. You're a hypocrite, period, point blank.

4176
03:49:55,880 --> 03:49:59,440
Speaker 8: Brandy also talked about the hypocrisy of pushing forward cop

4177
03:49:59,520 --> 03:50:02,880
Speaker 8: city after the George Floyd uprising in twenty twenty.

4178
03:50:03,400 --> 03:50:06,840
Speaker 22: You know, three years ago, just in May, all these

4179
03:50:06,920 --> 03:50:09,520
Speaker 22: companies were sending out these emails saying that black lives matter.

4180
03:50:09,600 --> 03:50:12,840
Speaker 22: After George Floyd. They were pouring money into the community

4181
03:50:12,960 --> 03:50:15,600
Speaker 22: to show their support for black lives. But some of

4182
03:50:15,680 --> 03:50:23,120
Speaker 22: those same communities Home Depot, Coca Cola, Delta Airlines, waffle House.

4183
03:50:23,240 --> 03:50:26,760
Speaker 22: You guys, are I'm sure sent those emails out, and

4184
03:50:26,840 --> 03:50:30,000
Speaker 22: now you're putting money into something that does not respect

4185
03:50:30,080 --> 03:50:33,400
Speaker 22: black lives. So I think there's just this huge contradiction

4186
03:50:34,240 --> 03:50:38,320
Speaker 22: in who these companies say they are how they're showing up.

4187
03:50:38,880 --> 03:50:42,600
Speaker 8: Part of the growing propaganda battle over cop City is

4188
03:50:42,640 --> 03:50:45,800
Speaker 8: an attempt to frame this state of the arched militarized

4189
03:50:45,840 --> 03:50:49,960
Speaker 8: police training facility as a quote unquote public safety training center,

4190
03:50:50,480 --> 03:50:54,200
Speaker 8: embodying the call for police reform that liberals protested for

4191
03:50:54,400 --> 03:50:58,240
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty. Not only does this erase the abolitionist

4192
03:50:58,360 --> 03:51:01,880
Speaker 8: core of the twenty twenty uprising, but it also obfuscates

4193
03:51:01,960 --> 03:51:05,040
Speaker 8: the fact that cop City is indeed a direct response

4194
03:51:05,120 --> 03:51:07,880
Speaker 8: to twenty twenty, not in terms of police reform, but

4195
03:51:08,400 --> 03:51:11,320
Speaker 8: in the aftermath of the neoliberal police state being under

4196
03:51:11,480 --> 03:51:15,760
Speaker 8: genuine threat. Corporate America and police have made this pact

4197
03:51:15,920 --> 03:51:20,480
Speaker 8: to maintain each other's legitimacy, as one cannot survive without

4198
03:51:20,520 --> 03:51:24,520
Speaker 8: the other. Cop City is to ensure that what happened

4199
03:51:24,520 --> 03:51:29,360
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty will never happen again. After the clear

4200
03:51:29,440 --> 03:51:33,080
Speaker 8: cutting of around eighty acres in the Wallani Forest, there's

4201
03:51:33,160 --> 03:51:35,600
Speaker 8: been more of a focus on the stop Coop City

4202
03:51:35,640 --> 03:51:39,360
Speaker 8: wing of the movement than defend the forest. Sure, there

4203
03:51:39,400 --> 03:51:42,360
Speaker 8: are still three hundred acres to defend and eighty acres

4204
03:51:42,400 --> 03:51:45,960
Speaker 8: to restore, but as construction is getting more imminent, the

4205
03:51:46,040 --> 03:51:50,120
Speaker 8: specific cop city focus has taken center stage in messaging.

4206
03:51:50,560 --> 03:51:54,520
Speaker 22: When it was initially talked about, it was all about

4207
03:51:54,520 --> 03:51:59,880
Speaker 22: the environment. They're tearing down the forest and as marginalized

4208
03:52:00,120 --> 03:52:04,600
Speaker 22: poor people. If I am hearing that, I'm not seeing

4209
03:52:04,680 --> 03:52:06,800
Speaker 22: it as important. I'm trying to figure ou how much

4210
03:52:06,800 --> 03:52:09,560
Speaker 22: pay my rent, how muchy my kids, how I'm i

4211
03:52:09,680 --> 03:52:11,680
Speaker 22: pay my bills, how I'm getting to and from work,

4212
03:52:12,760 --> 03:52:16,960
Speaker 22: and so those things I think made it difficult to

4213
03:52:17,160 --> 03:52:21,160
Speaker 22: break into the households of people who really need to

4214
03:52:21,200 --> 03:52:23,640
Speaker 22: be paying attention. And I would dare to say even

4215
03:52:23,680 --> 03:52:25,680
Speaker 22: the people in the community. I watched some of the

4216
03:52:25,760 --> 03:52:29,400
Speaker 22: testimony from the city council meeting several weeks ago.

4217
03:52:29,600 --> 03:52:29,920
Speaker 7: In the.

4218
03:52:32,080 --> 03:52:36,080
Speaker 22: State representative that spoke first talked about how the church

4219
03:52:36,320 --> 03:52:40,280
Speaker 22: right next door to the facility didn't even know what

4220
03:52:40,600 --> 03:52:44,000
Speaker 22: was happening next door to them. So for the City

4221
03:52:44,040 --> 03:52:46,840
Speaker 22: of Atlanta to say, oh, we've done outreach people in

4222
03:52:46,880 --> 03:52:49,920
Speaker 22: the community, No, that's not true, right. But part of

4223
03:52:50,000 --> 03:52:54,000
Speaker 22: that is the way that the narrative has started, and

4224
03:52:54,120 --> 03:52:56,080
Speaker 22: I think they were like, Okay, that ain't got nothing

4225
03:52:56,080 --> 03:52:58,200
Speaker 22: to do with me. And then also the fact that

4226
03:52:58,520 --> 03:53:01,640
Speaker 22: the faces that they saw on t it was they're

4227
03:53:01,640 --> 03:53:04,920
Speaker 22: thinking this is a white lead, white organization, white problem.

4228
03:53:04,960 --> 03:53:07,480
Speaker 22: It's not our problem. So they haven't engaged. So I

4229
03:53:07,520 --> 03:53:09,760
Speaker 22: think those are all things that we have to consider

4230
03:53:10,560 --> 03:53:12,640
Speaker 22: that and let people know this is a diverse problem.

4231
03:53:12,760 --> 03:53:15,680
Speaker 22: It impacts everybody. It's going to impact people of color

4232
03:53:16,040 --> 03:53:20,320
Speaker 22: and poor and marginalized communities more than anybody else, just

4233
03:53:20,440 --> 03:53:22,200
Speaker 22: because of the nature of how policing is done in

4234
03:53:22,240 --> 03:53:24,960
Speaker 22: America and so and the and the problems that we

4235
03:53:25,040 --> 03:53:28,880
Speaker 22: still have with that. So our program is from Red

4236
03:53:28,960 --> 03:53:32,520
Speaker 22: Dogs to cop City, the Dirty South history of over

4237
03:53:32,600 --> 03:53:36,800
Speaker 22: policing Atlanta. So helping them understand how this is just

4238
03:53:37,240 --> 03:53:41,800
Speaker 22: a new iteration of what's been happening. So the Red

4239
03:53:41,840 --> 03:53:45,880
Speaker 22: Dog Unit was at some call it a gang within

4240
03:53:45,960 --> 03:53:50,320
Speaker 22: Atlanta PD for many years. It was disbanded in twenty eleven,

4241
03:53:50,400 --> 03:53:54,720
Speaker 22: but they were terrorizing low poor communities of color, and

4242
03:53:56,000 --> 03:53:59,360
Speaker 22: so cop City in the way that they're thinking about

4243
03:53:59,440 --> 03:54:02,920
Speaker 22: training these officers would be just a new iteration of that.

4244
03:54:03,360 --> 03:54:08,880
Speaker 22: So helping them understand that just because we have come

4245
03:54:09,600 --> 03:54:12,640
Speaker 22: far with the civil rights, with our civil rights, and

4246
03:54:12,880 --> 03:54:16,120
Speaker 22: I'm not even talking specifically about the sixties movement, but

4247
03:54:16,320 --> 03:54:22,040
Speaker 22: civil rights for people of color, women, LGBTQI plus communities.

4248
03:54:22,520 --> 03:54:24,720
Speaker 22: Just because we've come far doesn't mean it can't go back.

4249
03:54:25,240 --> 03:54:29,160
Speaker 8: Atlanta's Red Dogs inspired the Scorpion Unit in Memphis that

4250
03:54:29,360 --> 03:54:34,040
Speaker 8: killed Tyree Nichols this past January, and the current iteration

4251
03:54:34,160 --> 03:54:37,280
Speaker 8: of the Red Dogs in Atlanta is the Apex Unit,

4252
03:54:37,640 --> 03:54:41,640
Speaker 8: who have been very active in suppressing stop Cop City protests.

4253
03:54:42,600 --> 03:54:45,560
Speaker 8: I'm going to play three brief clips from the panel discussion.

4254
03:54:46,160 --> 03:54:49,400
Speaker 8: The first is from Mariah Parker, a local activist and

4255
03:54:49,600 --> 03:54:51,320
Speaker 8: former Georgia County commissioner.

4256
03:54:51,760 --> 03:54:54,160
Speaker 7: This is a war on the uprise in twenty twenty.

4257
03:54:55,040 --> 03:54:56,680
Speaker 5: Okay, this is.

4258
03:54:58,400 --> 03:55:01,320
Speaker 7: Of the law of suprise in North America.

4259
03:55:02,520 --> 03:55:07,840
Speaker 6: The Atlanta Police Foundation, who is the main driver and

4260
03:55:07,960 --> 03:55:09,400
Speaker 6: living funder and actually the.

4261
03:55:09,440 --> 03:55:11,600
Speaker 7: Owner of prop City. I keep forgetting the fact that

4262
03:55:11,680 --> 03:55:13,200
Speaker 7: this is not actually going to go busy.

4263
03:55:14,160 --> 03:55:17,600
Speaker 6: The old Police Foundation trying to reassert their control over

4264
03:55:18,400 --> 03:55:21,200
Speaker 6: black communities at a time when people are starting to

4265
03:55:21,360 --> 03:55:24,640
Speaker 6: understand that communities are made safe for by afordable housing

4266
03:55:25,080 --> 03:55:30,120
Speaker 6: and healthcare and childcare and education, and where They're supremacy

4267
03:55:31,160 --> 03:55:36,560
Speaker 6: in the public safety apparatus has been challenged, their dominance

4268
03:55:36,600 --> 03:55:43,320
Speaker 6: has been challenged, and so in response to that uprising,

4269
03:55:44,440 --> 03:55:48,400
Speaker 6: they seized hold of the narrative that more police training,

4270
03:55:49,240 --> 03:55:55,000
Speaker 6: more diversity in our officers would be the magic key

4271
03:55:56,320 --> 03:55:58,760
Speaker 6: to heal all the wounds in our communities and to

4272
03:55:58,920 --> 03:56:00,000
Speaker 6: actually deliver.

4273
03:56:01,360 --> 03:56:03,320
Speaker 7: A style of policing that serves some people.

4274
03:56:05,400 --> 03:56:07,680
Speaker 6: And so with that they were able to make arguments

4275
03:56:07,880 --> 03:56:12,560
Speaker 6: that cop city would be the answer to right.

4276
03:56:12,520 --> 03:56:15,200
Speaker 7: Allegedly rising crime rates.

4277
03:56:16,320 --> 03:56:19,200
Speaker 6: He always divides, et cetera, et cetera, when at the

4278
03:56:19,320 --> 03:56:22,760
Speaker 6: end of the day, they it's like it's a form

4279
03:56:22,840 --> 03:56:26,000
Speaker 6: of counter insurgency. The people rose up, and so this

4280
03:56:26,120 --> 03:56:29,440
Speaker 6: is the police rising up in response to reassert their dominance.

4281
03:56:30,240 --> 03:56:34,040
Speaker 8: Next is kJ Henson, an Atlanta local and organizer with

4282
03:56:34,200 --> 03:56:37,040
Speaker 8: Black Men Build and Blackmail Initiative Georgia.

4283
03:56:38,040 --> 03:56:40,960
Speaker 7: Where's clear that the police are not our protectors.

4284
03:56:42,040 --> 03:56:43,800
Speaker 5: Right, we.

4285
03:56:45,560 --> 03:56:48,920
Speaker 7: Suffered at the hands of the system on a daily basis.

4286
03:56:49,400 --> 03:56:52,440
Speaker 10: Right, the system was built upon our backs literally.

4287
03:56:54,480 --> 03:56:59,560
Speaker 23: So we see that we've been discarded, we've been abused

4288
03:57:00,440 --> 03:57:01,080
Speaker 23: by the system.

4289
03:57:01,160 --> 03:57:04,040
Speaker 7: And that's the point. It's not that we're disengaged because

4290
03:57:04,080 --> 03:57:08,320
Speaker 7: we don't care. We're disengaged because we do care. Right,

4291
03:57:08,520 --> 03:57:12,480
Speaker 7: every election cycle, it's black voters to the rescue. We're

4292
03:57:12,520 --> 03:57:13,760
Speaker 7: the folks that are most.

4293
03:57:13,560 --> 03:57:17,520
Speaker 23: Impacted by the decisions of the same elected officials that

4294
03:57:17,680 --> 03:57:19,240
Speaker 23: beg us to put them in position.

4295
03:57:20,760 --> 03:57:24,360
Speaker 7: We suffer because these people come to us and beg

4296
03:57:24,520 --> 03:57:29,440
Speaker 7: for votes, for canvassers, for money, and they turn around

4297
03:57:29,520 --> 03:57:31,880
Speaker 7: and they sell us out the first chance they need.

4298
03:57:33,200 --> 03:57:36,880
Speaker 2: So we're disengaged of a.

4299
03:57:36,920 --> 03:57:37,360
Speaker 8: Matter of.

4300
03:57:38,880 --> 03:57:41,200
Speaker 7: I can't get what I need from these people that

4301
03:57:41,320 --> 03:57:44,720
Speaker 7: say that they're for me. Right, the very means of

4302
03:57:44,800 --> 03:57:46,080
Speaker 7: the people are at risk.

4303
03:57:46,240 --> 03:57:49,000
Speaker 23: Cop city threatenings are very right to protest.

4304
03:57:49,680 --> 03:57:51,280
Speaker 7: Right, cop city threatens the.

4305
03:57:51,360 --> 03:57:54,120
Speaker 23: Right for us to stand in the street and use

4306
03:57:54,200 --> 03:57:59,600
Speaker 23: our voice as a means of building collective power as a.

4307
03:57:59,720 --> 03:58:02,080
Speaker 7: Viata cool for making societal change.

4308
03:58:02,360 --> 03:58:04,880
Speaker 2: You become a domestic terrorist, you get.

4309
03:58:04,880 --> 03:58:07,520
Speaker 7: Jailed without bail, without bond, you won't have a court date.

4310
03:58:07,560 --> 03:58:09,880
Speaker 7: I've been there myself, not for proestic terrorism.

4311
03:58:09,600 --> 03:58:10,400
Speaker 11: But just beco recording.

4312
03:58:12,800 --> 03:58:17,240
Speaker 23: So we're seeing the rise of fascism in a very

4313
03:58:17,400 --> 03:58:17,920
Speaker 23: real way.

4314
03:58:19,480 --> 03:58:21,000
Speaker 7: Like in the realistic ways.

4315
03:58:21,080 --> 03:58:23,360
Speaker 23: Comp City, like you said, is ground and zero for

4316
03:58:23,480 --> 03:58:26,880
Speaker 23: what would become a very popular trend, not just in

4317
03:58:27,000 --> 03:58:29,640
Speaker 23: America but across the world right.

4318
03:58:29,760 --> 03:58:32,080
Speaker 2: So it's on us to make sure that we do

4319
03:58:32,320 --> 03:58:33,280
Speaker 2: everything that's in our.

4320
03:58:33,240 --> 03:58:35,800
Speaker 7: Power to make sure that this day is stopped. Cop

4321
03:58:35,920 --> 03:58:36,560
Speaker 7: City is.

4322
03:58:38,600 --> 03:58:44,640
Speaker 23: Giving police the training and the ability to have urban

4323
03:58:44,800 --> 03:58:48,160
Speaker 23: warfare and suppression tactics at their will to.

4324
03:58:48,240 --> 03:58:52,320
Speaker 7: Be used against the people. Urban warfare and suppression not

4325
03:58:52,600 --> 03:58:54,240
Speaker 7: like thinking, not unlike what we.

4326
03:58:54,320 --> 03:58:58,960
Speaker 23: See in other countries, in other cities with organized resistance.

4327
03:58:59,600 --> 03:59:04,560
Speaker 8: Every Lastly, we have Reverend Keana Jones, member of the

4328
03:59:04,680 --> 03:59:07,800
Speaker 8: Faith Coalition Do Stop Cop City, whom we've heard from

4329
03:59:07,960 --> 03:59:08,960
Speaker 8: on this show before.

4330
03:59:09,640 --> 03:59:12,160
Speaker 7: I want every Black Atlanta to think about what you

4331
03:59:12,320 --> 03:59:12,720
Speaker 7: don't have.

4332
03:59:13,400 --> 03:59:16,280
Speaker 24: If you don't have affordable housing, it's because they putting

4333
03:59:16,320 --> 03:59:16,880
Speaker 24: the money.

4334
03:59:16,640 --> 03:59:17,280
Speaker 7: In the cop CI.

4335
03:59:17,800 --> 03:59:20,080
Speaker 6: If you can't pay your life bill, it's because that

4336
03:59:20,200 --> 03:59:23,480
Speaker 6: assistance got given back to the federal government, but they

4337
03:59:23,600 --> 03:59:24,440
Speaker 6: paying for cop C.

4338
03:59:25,000 --> 03:59:28,880
Speaker 25: If there are no policing alternatives and no urgent initiatives

4339
03:59:29,120 --> 03:59:31,720
Speaker 25: getting your communities, if they've given the money to cop sick,

4340
03:59:32,040 --> 03:59:36,400
Speaker 25: If you fell into that pop hoole on Posilion, it's

4341
03:59:36,440 --> 03:59:39,320
Speaker 25: because they give it the money to top C. If

4342
03:59:39,520 --> 03:59:42,360
Speaker 25: you can't walk out of your door and breath clean

4343
03:59:42,520 --> 03:59:44,680
Speaker 25: airs because they rather get it to top C.

4344
03:59:45,280 --> 03:59:49,800
Speaker 7: So Andre Diickins does not care about black people. I'm

4345
03:59:49,800 --> 03:59:52,080
Speaker 7: gonna do a Kanye West right now, but.

4346
03:59:52,200 --> 03:59:55,800
Speaker 24: I'm saying, I'm Murray Gigons don't care about black people.

4347
03:59:55,840 --> 03:59:58,680
Speaker 25: And Andre Nickens ain't no different than nobody else and

4348
03:59:58,800 --> 04:00:01,240
Speaker 25: some of those other so people out there who have.

4349
04:00:01,400 --> 04:00:05,080
Speaker 6: Those soul called names ain't doing nothing but black people.

4350
04:00:05,320 --> 04:00:07,760
Speaker 6: So once the game, what is Andre Diga is doing

4351
04:00:07,840 --> 04:00:08,040
Speaker 6: for you?

4352
04:00:08,360 --> 04:00:11,600
Speaker 24: If he is willing to say police and make sure

4353
04:00:11,640 --> 04:00:14,560
Speaker 24: that they got slot takes to roll around they walking

4354
04:00:14,600 --> 04:00:18,200
Speaker 24: around the ars in your neighborhood, your children walking out

4355
04:00:18,280 --> 04:00:21,640
Speaker 24: the house to hearing good shots constantly, What the Andre

4356
04:00:21,760 --> 04:00:22,760
Speaker 24: giggets care about you?

4357
04:00:23,080 --> 04:00:24,240
Speaker 7: Does his children hear that?

4358
04:00:25,440 --> 04:00:25,800
Speaker 13: Okay?

4359
04:00:26,480 --> 04:00:26,680
Speaker 10: God?

4360
04:00:30,760 --> 04:00:33,240
Speaker 8: It is important to mention the venue that that this

4361
04:00:33,520 --> 04:00:35,640
Speaker 8: was that this panel took place in, because this is

4362
04:00:35,720 --> 04:00:38,600
Speaker 8: like a very much like a it feels it feels

4363
04:00:38,640 --> 04:00:42,360
Speaker 8: like a black excellent type of like space, like that

4364
04:00:42,840 --> 04:00:43,520
Speaker 8: is the space.

4365
04:00:43,320 --> 04:00:43,640
Speaker 9: That it is.

4366
04:00:43,720 --> 04:00:47,280
Speaker 11: It's it is, it is a private club. It holds

4367
04:00:47,360 --> 04:00:48,679
Speaker 11: like an amount.

4368
04:00:48,400 --> 04:00:51,320
Speaker 5: Of like respect there cultural significance.

4369
04:00:51,400 --> 04:00:55,000
Speaker 8: And on this panel at at the gathering spot, the

4370
04:00:55,280 --> 04:00:59,080
Speaker 8: panelists were we're talking about how why Why is the

4371
04:00:59,120 --> 04:01:01,840
Speaker 8: mayor who meant many these people helped get elected because

4372
04:01:01,840 --> 04:01:04,160
Speaker 8: he had promises about, you know, helping out the community,

4373
04:01:04,360 --> 04:01:07,960
Speaker 8: giving millions of dollars to affordable housing. Why is he

4374
04:01:08,160 --> 04:01:10,960
Speaker 8: using now like sixty seventy million dollars that could go

4375
04:01:11,080 --> 04:01:13,680
Speaker 8: to affordable housing, that could go towards supporting black people

4376
04:01:13,720 --> 04:01:17,120
Speaker 8: in Atlanta. This is funneling all of that money into

4377
04:01:17,400 --> 04:01:20,960
Speaker 8: the police and into not even like the police department,

4378
04:01:21,200 --> 04:01:25,600
Speaker 8: a private police foundation, like funding the APFS.

4379
04:01:25,160 --> 04:01:26,560
Speaker 11: Project, not a city project.

4380
04:01:26,960 --> 04:01:29,320
Speaker 8: I think it was Keana who said that Andre Dickens

4381
04:01:29,360 --> 04:01:32,000
Speaker 8: does not care about black people. Yeah, and having that

4382
04:01:32,120 --> 04:01:33,800
Speaker 8: be said at the gathering spot, I think actually is

4383
04:01:33,880 --> 04:01:38,480
Speaker 8: very important and is worth worth talking about. As the

4384
04:01:38,560 --> 04:01:42,000
Speaker 8: referendum was progressing and people from across all sides of

4385
04:01:42,040 --> 04:01:44,320
Speaker 8: the movement, we're working in conjunction to spread awareness of

4386
04:01:44,360 --> 04:01:48,480
Speaker 8: Copcity and engage in action, the mayor was making attempts

4387
04:01:48,520 --> 04:01:49,760
Speaker 8: to divide the movement.

4388
04:01:50,520 --> 04:01:55,640
Speaker 10: Criminals are hiding in the middle of peaceful protests and

4389
04:01:55,880 --> 04:01:59,760
Speaker 10: sometimes they are doing their own separate acts of violence.

4390
04:02:00,440 --> 04:02:04,680
Speaker 10: Some of them are career arsonists and vandals from across

4391
04:02:04,880 --> 04:02:10,440
Speaker 10: the nation. Local activists have been alerted to this numerous times.

4392
04:02:10,960 --> 04:02:16,200
Speaker 10: These are the actions of blatantly outrageous, dangerous, and violent criminals.

4393
04:02:16,680 --> 04:02:23,520
Speaker 10: How are arsonists, vandals, violent actors able to be alongside

4394
04:02:24,320 --> 04:02:30,320
Speaker 10: peaceful protesters. You have individuals that will burn up construction equipment,

4395
04:02:30,720 --> 04:02:34,520
Speaker 10: light a fire to police vehicles, and then have a

4396
04:02:34,640 --> 04:02:40,000
Speaker 10: bouncy house party the next day with peaceful protesters at

4397
04:02:40,440 --> 04:02:43,040
Speaker 10: a park. So they will go to a park by day,

4398
04:02:43,240 --> 04:02:46,760
Speaker 10: and then by night they're burning up police equipment or

4399
04:02:47,080 --> 04:02:50,840
Speaker 10: setting fires or trying to destroy construction equipment. So these

4400
04:02:50,920 --> 04:02:55,400
Speaker 10: individuals are trying to use the guys of peaceful protests

4401
04:02:55,880 --> 04:02:58,760
Speaker 10: that maybe some local Atlantans may actually be engaged in

4402
04:02:59,360 --> 04:03:03,400
Speaker 10: desired conversation about their views on public safety. But these

4403
04:03:03,480 --> 04:03:07,560
Speaker 10: individuals have different views than those folks. These individuals are anarchists.

4404
04:03:07,600 --> 04:03:13,000
Speaker 10: They want to destroy. So these individuals are alongside these arsonists,

4405
04:03:13,080 --> 04:03:18,880
Speaker 10: these criminals are alongside peaceful protesters, and sometimes the peaceful

4406
04:03:18,920 --> 04:03:22,240
Speaker 10: protesters are aware of it, and sometimes they are not.

4407
04:03:22,600 --> 04:03:25,560
Speaker 10: We have made it clear to local activists that we

4408
04:03:25,760 --> 04:03:29,160
Speaker 10: know and individuals that tend to be peaceful, We're letting

4409
04:03:29,200 --> 04:03:31,920
Speaker 10: them know that we are aware that there are individuals

4410
04:03:31,960 --> 04:03:34,520
Speaker 10: that are in our city that have committed crimes across

4411
04:03:34,560 --> 04:03:37,640
Speaker 10: the nation, and that they are on your social media

4412
04:03:37,720 --> 04:03:40,200
Speaker 10: or in your network saying they're coming to your event

4413
04:03:40,280 --> 04:03:40,960
Speaker 10: to do the same.

4414
04:03:41,680 --> 04:03:45,080
Speaker 8: Mayor Dickens went further and essentially threatened that if you

4415
04:03:45,200 --> 04:03:48,520
Speaker 8: are a so called activist and you don't snitch, then

4416
04:03:48,600 --> 04:03:52,000
Speaker 8: the APD will treat you the same as a violent criminal.

4417
04:03:52,320 --> 04:03:54,240
Speaker 10: So when we give you that heads up as a

4418
04:03:54,320 --> 04:03:57,120
Speaker 10: local organizer, you should take that heads up and also

4419
04:03:57,520 --> 04:04:00,120
Speaker 10: see something, say something as we're asking any other the

4420
04:04:00,160 --> 04:04:04,480
Speaker 10: citizen to do. When peaceful protesters, when organizers are not

4421
04:04:06,440 --> 04:04:09,760
Speaker 10: utilizing their best judgment, then bad things can happen with

4422
04:04:10,000 --> 04:04:12,520
Speaker 10: them being alongside them, and it makes it real tough

4423
04:04:12,560 --> 04:04:15,880
Speaker 10: for APD to know who was the one with the

4424
04:04:15,920 --> 04:04:18,400
Speaker 10: dirty hands, so to speak. And so that's what the

4425
04:04:18,480 --> 04:04:20,320
Speaker 10: message that we want to get out to the public

4426
04:04:20,440 --> 04:04:23,240
Speaker 10: is that these individuals mean harm and you don't want

4427
04:04:23,240 --> 04:04:25,640
Speaker 10: to be around them or associated with them. When you are,

4428
04:04:25,880 --> 04:04:27,520
Speaker 10: it makes it difficult to tell who's who.

4429
04:04:28,120 --> 04:04:31,000
Speaker 8: The city wants the various wings of the fight to

4430
04:04:31,080 --> 04:04:34,200
Speaker 8: stop cop City to turn on each other, to resent

4431
04:04:34,320 --> 04:04:38,480
Speaker 8: each other, to so distrust and undermine any collective power.

4432
04:04:39,480 --> 04:04:44,640
Speaker 8: That's why the referendum's statement of solidarity explicitly rejecting respectability

4433
04:04:44,720 --> 04:04:48,880
Speaker 8: politics and the framing of violent and nonviolent resistance was

4434
04:04:49,160 --> 04:04:54,200
Speaker 8: so important, and online communicate claiming responsibility for torching police

4435
04:04:54,280 --> 04:04:56,400
Speaker 8: motorcycles on the last day of the Week of action

4436
04:04:57,080 --> 04:05:02,240
Speaker 8: addressed this dynamic quote. We took action after non combative

4437
04:05:02,280 --> 04:05:06,480
Speaker 8: demonstrations at Cadence Bank and Home Depot. The police attacked

4438
04:05:06,600 --> 04:05:10,480
Speaker 8: those demonstrations with no cause, as they do wherever and

4439
04:05:10,640 --> 04:05:15,080
Speaker 8: however the movement gathers. There can be no separation of

4440
04:05:15,240 --> 04:05:18,720
Speaker 8: time and space for tactics when police have turned society

4441
04:05:18,840 --> 04:05:22,960
Speaker 8: into a war zone. Despite this, we dispersed our activity

4442
04:05:23,200 --> 04:05:27,200
Speaker 8: as much as possible across their area of control. We

4443
04:05:27,440 --> 04:05:30,680
Speaker 8: encourage those who are pursuing a strategy of referendum to

4444
04:05:30,880 --> 04:05:36,080
Speaker 8: continue supporting all methods to stop cop City. If you

4445
04:05:36,360 --> 04:05:40,520
Speaker 8: defy the state's unilateral authority in any way, you will

4446
04:05:40,560 --> 04:05:44,600
Speaker 8: be seen as a valid target. As demonstrated throughout the

4447
04:05:44,720 --> 04:05:47,760
Speaker 8: history of this movement, including during this last Week of action,

4448
04:05:48,560 --> 04:05:51,520
Speaker 8: police will treat you like a violent criminal, whether you're

4449
04:05:51,720 --> 04:05:54,920
Speaker 8: holding a sign in a parking lot, bailing activists out

4450
04:05:54,920 --> 04:06:00,800
Speaker 8: of jail, or smashing a cop car. Only a group

4451
04:06:00,840 --> 04:06:05,240
Speaker 8: of activists in unincorporated Decab County, near the potential site

4452
04:06:05,280 --> 04:06:08,200
Speaker 8: of cop City, filed a lawsuit against the City of

4453
04:06:08,200 --> 04:06:11,200
Speaker 8: Atlanta and the State of Georgia, claiming the requirement that

4454
04:06:11,400 --> 04:06:15,680
Speaker 8: signature gatherers must themselves be Atlanta residents violated their First

4455
04:06:15,720 --> 04:06:19,800
Speaker 8: Amendment right to free speech and petition the government. Due

4456
04:06:19,800 --> 04:06:24,160
Speaker 8: to the potential constitutional violation, the lawsuit also requested the

4457
04:06:24,240 --> 04:06:28,040
Speaker 8: court reset the sixty day clock for gathering signatures while

4458
04:06:28,200 --> 04:06:30,920
Speaker 8: still counting the signatures that were already gathered.

4459
04:06:32,080 --> 04:06:33,200
Speaker 11: In mid July, the.

4460
04:06:33,280 --> 04:06:36,800
Speaker 8: City of Atlanta filed a reply in federal court arguing

4461
04:06:36,880 --> 04:06:41,200
Speaker 8: that the cop City referendum was wholly invalid since it

4462
04:06:41,280 --> 04:06:44,520
Speaker 8: seeks to revoke a land lease that has already been signed.

4463
04:06:45,480 --> 04:06:49,000
Speaker 8: The filing reads, in part, quote, repeal of a year's

4464
04:06:49,040 --> 04:06:52,600
Speaker 8: old ordinance cannot retroactively revoke authorization to do something that

4465
04:06:52,680 --> 04:06:56,120
Speaker 8: has already been done. But if the referendum could claim

4466
04:06:56,200 --> 04:06:59,440
Speaker 8: to result in a revocation or cancelation of the lease,

4467
04:07:00,000 --> 04:07:02,040
Speaker 8: they would still be invalid because it would amount to

4468
04:07:02,080 --> 04:07:07,200
Speaker 8: an impermissible impairment of that contract unquote. The city also

4469
04:07:07,360 --> 04:07:10,760
Speaker 8: argued that if the court does deem the Atlanta residency

4470
04:07:10,880 --> 04:07:15,880
Speaker 8: requirement for gathering signatures unconstitutional, then the entire referendum should

4471
04:07:15,880 --> 04:07:20,160
Speaker 8: be deemed unlawful. A rebuttal by the plaintiffs said that

4472
04:07:20,360 --> 04:07:23,160
Speaker 8: the city did not provide factual or legal evidence for

4473
04:07:23,280 --> 04:07:28,000
Speaker 8: its claims and misread the cited precedence. According to the plaintiffs,

4474
04:07:28,200 --> 04:07:32,200
Speaker 8: the land lease contract is ongoing, not an irreversible quote

4475
04:07:32,280 --> 04:07:37,000
Speaker 8: unquote one time event, and since the city authorized and

4476
04:07:37,200 --> 04:07:40,600
Speaker 8: issued the petition form, they skipped their chance to argue

4477
04:07:40,680 --> 04:07:45,120
Speaker 8: that the referendum is somehow invalid by already approving the

4478
04:07:45,200 --> 04:07:48,040
Speaker 8: language of the petition and letting the referendum process begin.

4479
04:07:49,480 --> 04:07:53,040
Speaker 8: Near the end of July, US District Court Judge Mark

4480
04:07:53,160 --> 04:07:57,520
Speaker 8: Cohen ruled in favor of the cop city referendum, allowing

4481
04:07:57,800 --> 04:08:01,760
Speaker 8: non Atlanta residents to collect signature and reset the sixty

4482
04:08:01,840 --> 04:08:05,000
Speaker 8: day clock to collect the roughly sixty thousand signatures needed

4483
04:08:05,280 --> 04:08:09,040
Speaker 8: to put the land lease on the ballot. In his ruling,

4484
04:08:09,160 --> 04:08:12,640
Speaker 8: Judge Mark Cohen said, quote requiring signature gatherers to be

4485
04:08:12,720 --> 04:08:15,840
Speaker 8: residents of the city imposes a severe burden on core

4486
04:08:15,920 --> 04:08:19,080
Speaker 8: political speech and does little to protect the city's interest

4487
04:08:19,200 --> 04:08:23,160
Speaker 8: in self governance unquote. Mary hooks. The tactical lead of

4488
04:08:23,200 --> 04:08:27,080
Speaker 8: the referendum coalition reacted to the ruling, saying quote, we

4489
04:08:27,200 --> 04:08:30,520
Speaker 8: are thrilled by Judge Cohen's ruling and the expansion of

4490
04:08:30,560 --> 04:08:34,120
Speaker 8: democracy to include our cab neighbors and level the playing

4491
04:08:34,200 --> 04:08:38,360
Speaker 8: field for our coalition unquote. The city quickly filed for

4492
04:08:38,520 --> 04:08:42,240
Speaker 8: an appeal, which was subsequently denied on August fourteenth, with

4493
04:08:42,480 --> 04:08:45,960
Speaker 8: the judge stating quote, the city's real concern may be

4494
04:08:46,120 --> 04:08:48,720
Speaker 8: that now that non residents have the ability to gather

4495
04:08:48,800 --> 04:08:51,280
Speaker 8: signatures on the petition for the entire time that they

4496
04:08:51,280 --> 04:08:53,560
Speaker 8: would have been permitted to do so had their initial

4497
04:08:53,600 --> 04:08:57,000
Speaker 8: request been granted, there is an increased possibility that a

4498
04:08:57,040 --> 04:09:02,040
Speaker 8: sufficient number of valid signatures could be obtained. As liberals

4499
04:09:02,160 --> 04:09:05,560
Speaker 8: cheered on the Fulton County District Attorney in Atlanta for

4500
04:09:06,080 --> 04:09:10,480
Speaker 8: indicting Trump and co conspirators for election tampering under rico charges,

4501
04:09:11,040 --> 04:09:13,800
Speaker 8: the same exact sort of charges that this office has

4502
04:09:13,920 --> 04:09:17,200
Speaker 8: used against young black rappers and have been wielded against

4503
04:09:17,200 --> 04:09:20,400
Speaker 8: the Stop Cop City movement, the City of Atlanta's own

4504
04:09:20,520 --> 04:09:25,400
Speaker 8: election interference by repressing the referendum has been largely ignored.

4505
04:09:26,920 --> 04:09:30,320
Speaker 8: Fulton County Court set Trump's bond for two hundred thousand

4506
04:09:30,320 --> 04:09:33,840
Speaker 8: dollars for attempting to overthrow a federal election. The same

4507
04:09:33,960 --> 04:09:37,520
Speaker 8: court set bond at three hundred and fifty five thousand

4508
04:09:37,560 --> 04:09:42,080
Speaker 8: dollars each for multiple protesters arrested for being merely present

4509
04:09:42,240 --> 04:09:46,160
Speaker 8: at a protest. After Georgia State Patrol killed force defender

4510
04:09:46,240 --> 04:09:50,680
Speaker 8: Torteguita in January of this year, during all of the

4511
04:09:51,000 --> 04:09:54,520
Speaker 8: glowing press for District Attorney Fanny Willis and the City

4512
04:09:54,560 --> 04:09:58,480
Speaker 8: of Atlanta, it was revealed that on August eleventh, the

4513
04:09:58,560 --> 04:10:02,000
Speaker 8: Atlanta Police Department killed a sixty two year old, unarmed

4514
04:10:02,040 --> 04:10:06,120
Speaker 8: black man named Johnny Holman while responding to a minor

4515
04:10:06,200 --> 04:10:11,320
Speaker 8: traffic accident. Both Holman and the unnamed second driver called

4516
04:10:11,440 --> 04:10:14,440
Speaker 8: nine one one after the accident. Holman told nine one

4517
04:10:14,440 --> 04:10:19,400
Speaker 8: one operators, quote, somebody ran into my truck unquote. After

4518
04:10:19,520 --> 04:10:22,640
Speaker 8: waiting for over an hour for police to arrive, twenty

4519
04:10:22,720 --> 04:10:26,160
Speaker 8: three year old officer Kiaran Kimbro responded to the scene.

4520
04:10:26,920 --> 04:10:29,920
Speaker 8: Kimbro joined APD in March of twenty twenty one and

4521
04:10:30,200 --> 04:10:34,400
Speaker 8: currently has an open complaint for quote sexual misconduct non

4522
04:10:34,520 --> 04:10:38,400
Speaker 8: criminal unquote. Johnny Holman, who served as a deacon in

4523
04:10:38,480 --> 04:10:41,360
Speaker 8: his church, called his kids to listen to how the

4524
04:10:41,520 --> 04:10:46,240
Speaker 8: officer was escalating the situation, and then an unknown witness

4525
04:10:46,560 --> 04:10:50,240
Speaker 8: helped this APD officer wrestle sixty two year old Johnny

4526
04:10:50,280 --> 04:10:53,320
Speaker 8: Holman to the ground and put him in handcuffs as

4527
04:10:53,440 --> 04:10:57,600
Speaker 8: the officer used his taser. To quote the Atlantic Community

4528
04:10:57,600 --> 04:11:01,680
Speaker 8: Press Collective quote, the children listen for seventeen minutes as

4529
04:11:01,760 --> 04:11:04,680
Speaker 8: they drove to the scene of the accident, hearing their

4530
04:11:04,800 --> 04:11:08,800
Speaker 8: father call for help after officer kimbro tased him. When

4531
04:11:08,840 --> 04:11:12,400
Speaker 8: they arrived on scene, they found officers giving chest compressions

4532
04:11:12,440 --> 04:11:13,000
Speaker 8: to their father.

4533
04:11:13,520 --> 04:11:13,960
Speaker 3: Unquote.

4534
04:11:14,760 --> 04:11:19,600
Speaker 8: Johnny Holman was then pronounced dead at Grady Hospital. A

4535
04:11:19,680 --> 04:11:24,760
Speaker 8: week after APD killed Holman, Another person incarcerated at Fulton

4536
04:11:24,800 --> 04:11:28,480
Speaker 8: County Jail died while being held on five thousand dollars

4537
04:11:28,600 --> 04:11:32,520
Speaker 8: bond after being denied seing the trebond for shoplifting less

4538
04:11:32,560 --> 04:11:36,720
Speaker 8: than five hundred dollars of goods. The City of Atlanta's

4539
04:11:36,840 --> 04:11:41,400
Speaker 8: own alleged voter suppression has continued. Initially, the cop city

4540
04:11:41,480 --> 04:11:44,080
Speaker 8: vote referendum hoped to not have to use the extra

4541
04:11:44,200 --> 04:11:47,040
Speaker 8: day is granted by the judge and submit the collected

4542
04:11:47,040 --> 04:11:50,440
Speaker 8: signatures on August twenty first, with the intention of getting

4543
04:11:50,480 --> 04:11:53,520
Speaker 8: them verified in time. To put the cop city vote

4544
04:11:53,640 --> 04:11:58,440
Speaker 8: on the upcoming November ballot come Monday, August twenty first,

4545
04:11:58,920 --> 04:12:01,720
Speaker 8: the referendum of put out statement that, despite collecting over

4546
04:12:01,800 --> 04:12:05,320
Speaker 8: one hundred thousand signatures, that they are delaying submitting the

4547
04:12:05,360 --> 04:12:07,680
Speaker 8: petition due to concerns that the city was going to

4548
04:12:07,720 --> 04:12:13,440
Speaker 8: employ voter suppression tactics during the validation process. The statement reads,

4549
04:12:13,480 --> 04:12:16,480
Speaker 8: in part quote, In recent days, we began to hear

4550
04:12:16,680 --> 04:12:20,240
Speaker 8: from reporters and sources inside city Hall that the City

4551
04:12:20,240 --> 04:12:23,120
Speaker 8: of Atlanta is planning to argue for a higher than

4552
04:12:23,160 --> 04:12:27,400
Speaker 8: previously reported legal minimum signature count for ballot access. More

4553
04:12:27,440 --> 04:12:31,400
Speaker 8: concerning were reports that they also planned to utilize signature

4554
04:12:31,560 --> 04:12:36,440
Speaker 8: match in their verification process, an archaic and widely abandoned

4555
04:12:36,520 --> 04:12:39,760
Speaker 8: tool of voter suppression that has been widely condemned across

4556
04:12:39,800 --> 04:12:44,120
Speaker 8: the political spectrum, including by the Republican controlled Georgia State legislature.

4557
04:12:45,880 --> 04:12:49,320
Speaker 8: Signature matching is a subjective form of a vote validation,

4558
04:12:49,760 --> 04:12:53,200
Speaker 8: which uses election workers to visually match signatures on a

4559
04:12:53,280 --> 04:12:56,320
Speaker 8: ballot or in this case of petition, to a previous

4560
04:12:56,400 --> 04:13:01,360
Speaker 8: signature on their driver's license or voter registration card. Hours

4561
04:13:01,440 --> 04:13:05,520
Speaker 8: after the referendum's statement, the city of Atlanta officially announced

4562
04:13:05,560 --> 04:13:08,320
Speaker 8: their intention to use his signature matching for the cop

4563
04:13:08,440 --> 04:13:12,960
Speaker 8: city vote referendum. Back in twenty eighteen, a federal judge

4564
04:13:13,000 --> 04:13:16,240
Speaker 8: in Georgia ruled that signature matching did not serve any

4565
04:13:16,320 --> 04:13:21,560
Speaker 8: legitimate interest and disenfranchised black and brown voters disproportionately. For years,

4566
04:13:21,640 --> 04:13:25,320
Speaker 8: the ACLU has advocated against and won multiple court cases

4567
04:13:25,800 --> 04:13:32,400
Speaker 8: against discriminatory signature matching processes. Fair Fight Action, a Georgia

4568
04:13:32,440 --> 04:13:36,280
Speaker 8: based voting rights organization founded by Stacy Abrams, responded to

4569
04:13:36,400 --> 04:13:38,960
Speaker 8: the news Atlanta would be using signature matching with a

4570
04:13:39,040 --> 04:13:42,560
Speaker 8: statement saying, quote, signature matching is a tool of voter

4571
04:13:42,640 --> 04:13:46,080
Speaker 8: suppression that litigated extensively in Georgia and removed from the

4572
04:13:46,160 --> 04:13:49,120
Speaker 8: mail in ballot process because of its harm to voters

4573
04:13:49,600 --> 04:13:55,440
Speaker 8: resulting in mass disenfranchisement. Using the discredited process of signature

4574
04:13:55,480 --> 04:14:00,680
Speaker 8: matching is unacceptable and risks unfairly rejecting thousands of valid petitions.

4575
04:14:01,560 --> 04:14:06,600
Speaker 8: Signature of verification is notoriously subjective, disproportionately impacts voters of color,

4576
04:14:06,880 --> 04:14:11,000
Speaker 8: and as biased against disabled and elderly voters. There is

4577
04:14:11,200 --> 04:14:14,840
Speaker 8: extensive precedent in Georgia showing the harms of this process,

4578
04:14:15,480 --> 04:14:19,000
Speaker 8: it must be relegated to the past. Fair Fight calls

4579
04:14:19,040 --> 04:14:21,600
Speaker 8: on the City of Atlanta to rescind their intent to

4580
04:14:21,800 --> 04:14:25,360
Speaker 8: use this process and to enact steps that fairly evaluate

4581
04:14:25,480 --> 04:14:30,640
Speaker 8: these petitions unquote. Facing the City of Atlanta's quote open

4582
04:14:30,800 --> 04:14:34,880
Speaker 8: and ongoing hostility to the cop city vote referendum, the

4583
04:14:35,000 --> 04:14:38,880
Speaker 8: coalition has decided to use the time extension granted by

4584
04:14:38,920 --> 04:14:42,680
Speaker 8: federal Judge Mark Cohen to continue collecting signatures to quote

4585
04:14:43,000 --> 04:14:46,560
Speaker 8: leave no doubt as to the will of Atlantic voters unquote.

4586
04:14:47,160 --> 04:14:51,400
Speaker 8: They now plan to submit petition signatures on September twenty third.

4587
04:14:52,720 --> 04:14:55,560
Speaker 8: The City Council will then have fifty days to validate

4588
04:14:55,600 --> 04:14:58,800
Speaker 8: the signatures, which means that, if successful, and assuming the

4589
04:14:58,840 --> 04:15:02,360
Speaker 8: city doesn't further interf the referendum would get put on

4590
04:15:02,480 --> 04:15:06,240
Speaker 8: the ballot during the March primary election in twenty twenty four.

4591
04:15:07,480 --> 04:15:11,240
Speaker 8: The vote being pushed into March adds a few complications.

4592
04:15:11,960 --> 04:15:15,160
Speaker 8: Turnout may skew more Republican as it's unlikely there will

4593
04:15:15,200 --> 04:15:19,040
Speaker 8: be a Democratic presidential primary, and the vote being seven

4594
04:15:19,120 --> 04:15:22,080
Speaker 8: months away disrupts the momentum that the campaign has been

4595
04:15:22,120 --> 04:15:25,720
Speaker 8: gaining over the past couple of months. People who sign

4596
04:15:25,800 --> 04:15:28,480
Speaker 8: the petition back in June would have to wait almost

4597
04:15:28,520 --> 04:15:31,760
Speaker 8: a whole year to vote on the ballot. The few

4598
04:15:31,840 --> 04:15:34,960
Speaker 8: extra months does give more time to educate the public

4599
04:15:35,040 --> 04:15:37,040
Speaker 8: about Cop City during a lead up to the election,

4600
04:15:37,680 --> 04:15:41,640
Speaker 8: but that goes both ways, which means that after two

4601
04:15:41,800 --> 04:15:44,640
Speaker 8: years of this movement mostly taking form as a ground

4602
04:15:44,760 --> 04:15:48,880
Speaker 8: war over territory, now for the time being, much of

4603
04:15:48,960 --> 04:15:51,720
Speaker 8: the fight to stop Cop City will change into a

4604
04:15:51,840 --> 04:15:56,160
Speaker 8: pr war in the public sphere. This shift from a

4605
04:15:56,320 --> 04:16:00,360
Speaker 8: physical offense to a metaphysical offense was something that I

4606
04:16:00,440 --> 04:16:03,440
Speaker 8: already felt coming back during the Week of action in

4607
04:16:03,560 --> 04:16:06,600
Speaker 8: terms of like cameras and spectacle the other The big

4608
04:16:06,720 --> 04:16:10,000
Speaker 8: feeling I had on the Saturday kickoff rally was like

4609
04:16:10,720 --> 04:16:12,920
Speaker 8: this just feels like society of the spectacle, Like.

4610
04:16:12,960 --> 04:16:14,640
Speaker 5: There's such a performance.

4611
04:16:14,760 --> 04:16:17,680
Speaker 8: It was very performative, but it was like almost like

4612
04:16:18,200 --> 04:16:21,280
Speaker 8: with all of the cameras looking at everything all the time,

4613
04:16:21,760 --> 04:16:23,720
Speaker 8: it was like are people trying to make a proximily

4614
04:16:23,840 --> 04:16:27,120
Speaker 8: of this movement for the cameras? Like is that has

4615
04:16:27,200 --> 04:16:30,320
Speaker 8: become almost more important?

4616
04:16:30,480 --> 04:16:31,720
Speaker 5: Or like it felt that way.

4617
04:16:32,160 --> 04:16:34,720
Speaker 8: This is a conversation that people have, like is it

4618
04:16:34,920 --> 04:16:39,960
Speaker 8: worth creating moments where we expect the police to lash

4619
04:16:40,000 --> 04:16:42,760
Speaker 8: out violently, Like, is that effective as a propaganda tactic?

4620
04:16:42,880 --> 04:16:47,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that if comes with losing while looking good,

4621
04:16:48,760 --> 04:16:48,960
Speaker 5: it does.

4622
04:16:49,120 --> 04:16:51,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, that is like, that is losing while looking good.

4623
04:16:51,400 --> 04:16:54,240
Speaker 8: But also I don't think that's nearly as effective as

4624
04:16:54,280 --> 04:16:56,720
Speaker 8: people think it is. I think after twenty twenty, I

4625
04:16:56,760 --> 04:17:00,480
Speaker 8: think people are kind of desensitized to a lot of

4626
04:17:00,560 --> 04:17:05,160
Speaker 8: police violence at protests. The visual the visuals of police

4627
04:17:05,400 --> 04:17:07,920
Speaker 8: hurting protesters, I don't think is nearly as impactful as

4628
04:17:07,960 --> 04:17:11,560
Speaker 8: it was even three years ago. So I think people

4629
04:17:11,640 --> 04:17:15,600
Speaker 8: are also realizing that and realizing that, hey, the sacrifice

4630
04:17:15,640 --> 04:17:18,200
Speaker 8: inherent in setting up actions where you know that you're

4631
04:17:18,240 --> 04:17:20,760
Speaker 8: probably going to get fucked up by police, that's not

4632
04:17:20,960 --> 04:17:24,240
Speaker 8: worth it. That one, it treats people as like tools.

4633
04:17:24,240 --> 04:17:27,640
Speaker 8: It treats people as disposable, which is, you know, that's

4634
04:17:27,760 --> 04:17:29,880
Speaker 8: not great if you want to build a long lasting movement,

4635
04:17:32,280 --> 04:17:35,800
Speaker 8: And that's not even very effective. As the public relations

4636
04:17:35,880 --> 04:17:38,560
Speaker 8: battle over the fate of cop City intensifies in the

4637
04:17:38,680 --> 04:17:41,080
Speaker 8: lead up to the vote, with the City of Atlanta

4638
04:17:41,240 --> 04:17:46,400
Speaker 8: undoubtedly ready to run a full election propaganda campaign, strategies

4639
04:17:46,440 --> 04:17:50,600
Speaker 8: of resistance cannot overlook the physical construction of the facility.

4640
04:17:51,320 --> 04:17:54,680
Speaker 8: Pre construction has been active and ongoing for a few

4641
04:17:54,720 --> 04:17:57,920
Speaker 8: months now, mostly in the form of tree clearing and

4642
04:17:58,200 --> 04:18:01,680
Speaker 8: land grading. Just a few days ago, the Atlanta Police

4643
04:18:01,720 --> 04:18:05,600
Speaker 8: Foundation updated their construction timeline, saying that they had just

4644
04:18:05,720 --> 04:18:09,160
Speaker 8: began installing a stone base for the main roadway, that

4645
04:18:09,480 --> 04:18:13,200
Speaker 8: irrigation and site lighting is now underway, and full lawn

4646
04:18:13,320 --> 04:18:16,760
Speaker 8: construction is set to quote begin in the next week

4647
04:18:16,880 --> 04:18:20,800
Speaker 8: or so. Unquote That now may be out of date,

4648
04:18:21,160 --> 04:18:23,520
Speaker 8: but based on the progress being made on the site,

4649
04:18:24,080 --> 04:18:28,160
Speaker 8: it's clear that construction is now imminent, and with the

4650
04:18:28,240 --> 04:18:31,080
Speaker 8: threat of the referendum, the APF will try to get

4651
04:18:31,120 --> 04:18:33,880
Speaker 8: as much built as quickly as possible to help with

4652
04:18:33,960 --> 04:18:38,240
Speaker 8: the pro cop city side of election messaging. One of

4653
04:18:38,280 --> 04:18:40,480
Speaker 8: the original goals of the referendum was to try to

4654
04:18:40,520 --> 04:18:44,160
Speaker 8: place an injunction on further construction until the ballot vote,

4655
04:18:44,680 --> 04:18:48,880
Speaker 8: but it's unknown if or when that would happen. In

4656
04:18:48,960 --> 04:18:51,640
Speaker 8: the meantime, activists may take a queue from Earth First

4657
04:18:51,800 --> 04:18:54,920
Speaker 8: and instead of trying to occupy the site, instead they

4658
04:18:55,000 --> 04:18:58,040
Speaker 8: might find creative ways to make the construction site hard

4659
04:18:58,160 --> 04:19:02,360
Speaker 8: to work on with the increased element of spectacle, placing

4660
04:19:02,360 --> 04:19:05,600
Speaker 8: a lot of extra eyes on pre announced public demonstrations,

4661
04:19:06,280 --> 04:19:10,200
Speaker 8: more secretive actions may start becoming more common. There's other

4662
04:19:10,440 --> 04:19:12,880
Speaker 8: actions that can happen more covertly, like if you're doing

4663
04:19:12,920 --> 04:19:15,600
Speaker 8: sabotage where you don't need to invite a camera crew

4664
04:19:15,640 --> 04:19:16,240
Speaker 8: to film.

4665
04:19:16,040 --> 04:19:19,880
Speaker 5: You do crimes. Why is move Why is?

4666
04:19:21,360 --> 04:19:23,920
Speaker 8: But no, it's also like as a rule, like why

4667
04:19:24,480 --> 04:19:26,720
Speaker 8: That's the other thing is like so many of these

4668
04:19:26,760 --> 04:19:28,960
Speaker 8: events during during these weeks of action are pre planned.

4669
04:19:29,000 --> 04:19:32,120
Speaker 8: That not only gives media heads up on like we're

4670
04:19:32,160 --> 04:19:34,000
Speaker 8: gonna film this, and this is also gonna that's gonna

4671
04:19:34,040 --> 04:19:36,480
Speaker 8: change the actions that happened while this is happening because

4672
04:19:36,480 --> 04:19:39,200
Speaker 8: everyone knows they're being launched, it also gives police heads.

4673
04:19:39,080 --> 04:19:39,280
Speaker 7: Up to.

4674
04:19:40,760 --> 04:19:43,240
Speaker 5: Shut down the paths your intrudgment career.

4675
04:19:43,800 --> 04:19:45,440
Speaker 8: So that I think that comes with the Week of

4676
04:19:45,480 --> 04:19:47,600
Speaker 8: Action format because if people coming in from out of town,

4677
04:19:47,840 --> 04:19:50,440
Speaker 8: they don't know where to go, if they're not already

4678
04:19:50,480 --> 04:19:52,280
Speaker 8: tied in with the movement, they don't know what what

4679
04:19:52,760 --> 04:19:55,080
Speaker 8: what exactly to do. So that's that's another thing that

4680
04:19:55,160 --> 04:19:58,760
Speaker 8: thinks could change during future actions that may not be.

4681
04:19:58,840 --> 04:20:01,160
Speaker 11: Part of the Week of Action is more covert.

4682
04:20:01,640 --> 04:20:05,080
Speaker 8: Let's pre planned, pre announced actions that are maybe a

4683
04:20:05,120 --> 04:20:09,520
Speaker 8: little bit more mischievous. In their recent statement on voter suppression,

4684
04:20:09,800 --> 04:20:13,520
Speaker 8: the referendum also announced, quote the coalition will consider using

4685
04:20:13,720 --> 04:20:17,440
Speaker 8: upcoming opportunities for non violent direct actions to direct the

4686
04:20:17,520 --> 04:20:20,920
Speaker 8: people's frustration with the city council's obstruction of the democratic

4687
04:20:21,000 --> 04:20:25,920
Speaker 8: process unquote. Camal Franklin of Community Movement Builders added quote,

4688
04:20:26,320 --> 04:20:28,720
Speaker 8: if the city needs to see a demonstration of the

4689
04:20:28,720 --> 04:20:32,000
Speaker 8: people's commitment to the issue, we're happy to provide one.

4690
04:20:32,360 --> 04:20:32,800
Speaker 2: Unquote.

4691
04:20:33,920 --> 04:20:38,360
Speaker 8: Police intentionally denying anarchists operating space by occupying the Wolani

4692
04:20:38,440 --> 04:20:42,320
Speaker 8: themselves may shift the more liberal side of the movement

4693
04:20:42,480 --> 04:20:46,040
Speaker 8: to now focus on rallies and events around the construction site,

4694
04:20:46,520 --> 04:20:51,200
Speaker 8: which could also inadvertently draw eyeballs away and open up

4695
04:20:51,280 --> 04:20:55,000
Speaker 8: other territory across the city that might be more vulnerable

4696
04:20:55,120 --> 04:20:58,920
Speaker 8: to attack by small groups to quote the direct action

4697
04:20:59,000 --> 04:21:02,360
Speaker 8: communicate claiming respont onsibility for torching the police motorcade on

4698
04:21:02,440 --> 04:21:06,720
Speaker 8: July first. Quote, while signatures are collected, the police are

4699
04:21:06,840 --> 04:21:11,760
Speaker 8: still killing. We cannot wait. If the referendum fails, actions

4700
04:21:11,920 --> 04:21:16,320
Speaker 8: like ours and Boulder will be the only means available unquote.

4701
04:21:17,600 --> 04:21:22,080
Speaker 8: With construction imminent, subcontractor tensions increasing and the City of

4702
04:21:22,080 --> 04:21:26,520
Speaker 8: Atlanta gambling with voter suppression. Right now, the movement really

4703
04:21:26,560 --> 04:21:30,400
Speaker 8: cannot afford to alienate the green anarchists that pioneered the

4704
04:21:30,560 --> 04:21:34,560
Speaker 8: early legitimacy of this movement with bold direct action. The

4705
04:21:34,600 --> 04:21:37,360
Speaker 8: Atlanta Police Foundation is trying to snatch a victory from

4706
04:21:37,400 --> 04:21:40,640
Speaker 8: the jaws of defeat. What happens in the next few

4707
04:21:40,680 --> 04:21:45,040
Speaker 8: months may push Atlanta to a dangerous tipping point. No

4708
04:21:45,200 --> 04:21:49,520
Speaker 8: matter the endpoint of this particular struggle, victory or defeat

4709
04:21:49,640 --> 04:21:54,200
Speaker 8: cannot be imagined as the end. The fight against Coppcity

4710
04:21:54,600 --> 04:21:58,080
Speaker 8: is one large battle in an ongoing war, a war

4711
04:21:58,160 --> 04:22:02,880
Speaker 8: of police militarization, racism, environmental justice, and against the incestuous

4712
04:22:03,040 --> 04:22:07,880
Speaker 8: neoliberal police state in its leviathan like formation. Based on

4713
04:22:07,960 --> 04:22:12,000
Speaker 8: what happens here in Atlanta, similar police project proposals will

4714
04:22:12,040 --> 04:22:16,520
Speaker 8: be recalibrated. As the South goes, so goes the nation.

4715
04:22:17,640 --> 04:22:20,760
Speaker 8: Capitalist realism posits that history is over, that it's a

4716
04:22:20,920 --> 04:22:24,240
Speaker 8: literal thing of the past, But it turns out you're

4717
04:22:24,280 --> 04:22:27,280
Speaker 8: living through it right now, so what will you do

4718
04:22:27,480 --> 04:22:31,440
Speaker 8: to create it? You can read more about the fights

4719
04:22:31,480 --> 04:22:35,920
Speaker 8: to stop Coopcity at Atlpresscollective dot com and donate to

4720
04:22:35,960 --> 04:22:39,640
Speaker 8: the Atlanta Solidarity Fund at atlsolidarity dot org.

4721
04:22:40,320 --> 04:22:41,720
Speaker 11: See you on the other side.

4722
04:22:43,240 --> 04:22:46,360
Speaker 1: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

4723
04:22:46,480 --> 04:22:49,000
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the universe. It

4724
04:22:49,080 --> 04:22:51,320
Speaker 1: Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media.

4725
04:22:51,560 --> 04:22:54,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

4726
04:22:54,280 --> 04:22:57,360
Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

4727
04:22:57,400 --> 04:23:00,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

4728
04:23:00,600 --> 04:23:03,240
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

4729
04:23:03,320 --> 04:23:06,560
Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.