Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. I'm Leeza Trigger and.
Speaker 1: I as always am Cara Clank and this podcast is
Speaker 1: SVU Recaps.
Speaker 5: It is true crime, deep dives.
Speaker 1: It is interviews with celebs and other interesting people. But
Speaker 1: we have a great guest today, but before that, we
Speaker 1: catch up on what's going on in the world, in
Speaker 1: our world, in whatever we want to talk about.
Speaker 2: I'm floating on air, not only because I did a
Speaker 2: heated rivalry comedy show last night that you recommended me for.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I guess I was the first person booked five months ago.
Speaker 1: You know, I literally believe it hadn't happened yet. She
Speaker 1: approached me like, oh no, she told me the idea,
Speaker 1: and I go, you have to get Lisa like she's
Speaker 1: She's like, you have to do yeah, and she was like,
Speaker 1: can you put me in touch or whatever? So I
Speaker 1: was yes, no, So thank you for that. But also
Speaker 1: just this time of year, you don't get it as much.
Speaker 1: You get it from your past maybe, but like it's
Speaker 1: just so much better and easier to get dressed when
Speaker 1: it's warm out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just like you.
Speaker 2: Don't actually have to think about it because we've also
Speaker 2: had this like fucked up like it's fifty, then it's seventy,
Speaker 2: then it's not, and now it's warm. I don't want
Speaker 2: to speak too soon, but it's just like I don't
Speaker 2: need a jacket.
Speaker 5: I can wear a spaghetti strap.
Speaker 1: Let's go. It's just I feel pumped. I feel yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that. I love I mean, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1: Like right after I moved to LA, I went back
Speaker 1: to New York to write on.
Speaker 5: A pilot for a month in June.
Speaker 1: But like my husband came to visit me for like
Speaker 1: a week and it was mid mid it was earlier
Speaker 1: mid June.
Speaker 5: And I was like, did we make a mistake.
Speaker 1: It's so magical here right now, Like I just love
Speaker 1: New York in like the spring, early summer before it
Speaker 1: gets and I don't even mind the heat, so I'm
Speaker 1: not even I don't either.
Speaker 2: It's going to be eighty today, but I'm wearing kind
Speaker 2: of a backless spaghetti strap dress.
Speaker 1: Got to float on down. No Shires are worried. It's
Speaker 1: such a pack animal in New York. You have to
Speaker 1: carry everything with you all day if you're going to
Speaker 1: be out for the day, and you just don't have
Speaker 1: that as much when you're like I'm wearing a summer
Speaker 1: dress and I'm out, you know, like and I could
Speaker 1: be out from eight in the morning until three in
Speaker 1: the morning, you know, with just a little toe.
Speaker 5: Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, so I did get a Connor story magazine. It's
Speaker 2: called Behind the Blinds. I follow the news stands now
Speaker 2: in New York. It has to help posts and I
Speaker 2: went run in. I want to know who's buying these
Speaker 2: magazines normally, Like so I go to this place. I
Speaker 2: haven't heard of any of these magazines, and it's like, well,
Speaker 2: I am not in the niche interests. So like, I
Speaker 2: understand if there's like people that are into these fashion things, photographers,
Speaker 2: like there's a whole ecosystem. But is it just kids
Speaker 2: of rich parents putting on magazines for each other? Like
Speaker 2: what is this? Now that I'm buying these magazines, I've
Speaker 2: never heard of.
Speaker 3: What is this?
Speaker 2: And there one from the Netherlands is coming, So I'm
Speaker 2: on a wait list for that, like I'm in it now,
Speaker 2: but like I get the architects.
Speaker 5: Are buying some what who are or even when.
Speaker 2: We watch Real Housewives and women are on the cover
Speaker 2: of these random magazines, Yes.
Speaker 5: What are? People are Italian Show or something like that.
Speaker 1: It was called like Italian Show and the hampton Not
Speaker 1: the cover of Italian Show, I mean the Hampton's magazine.
Speaker 1: There's always local magazines, right, Like Hampton's magazine is a magazine.
Speaker 1: People reading the Hampton's. Like when I was growing up,
Speaker 1: there was one that was like Darienn Nucanan and Rowaytan
Speaker 1: or something like that was like for three towns, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like there are these little tiny magazines,
Speaker 1: but to be in a newsstand in New York City
Speaker 1: people must be this isn't but this isn't just a jet.
Speaker 2: This is like a SOHO internationally. These are my three
Speaker 2: of us specific right, this is a magazine store, but
Speaker 2: this is how crazy it is. So then my friend,
Speaker 2: who lives an upstate like just I would say not
Speaker 2: even a week later, messaged me going, hey, I kind
Speaker 2: of want the behind the blinds. I feel left out,
Speaker 2: and I go I'll go get it. I'm like, nothing
Speaker 2: gets me out of bed more. I love getting steps in,
Speaker 2: so I just start rushing. And when I showed up
Speaker 2: all the displays where these magazines came back, only two
Speaker 2: vogues left of like I would say one hundred. All
Speaker 2: the Hudson Wonderlands were gone and they were taking down
Speaker 2: Behind the Blinds.
Speaker 5: There was maybe twenty left.
Speaker 2: So within a week they sold out multiple display windows
Speaker 2: of this store. Like, so the magazine is something we
Speaker 2: haven't seen in forever. But but you know, when I
Speaker 2: went to get that other magazine, it's like yeah, like
Speaker 2: so they're doing a commotion, but like, yeah, I'm so
Speaker 2: curious if anyone's listening that works in this kind of
Speaker 2: rom com universe.
Speaker 1: Oh but it was so funny behind the Blinds magazine.
Speaker 5: So tell me about it.
Speaker 1: It's it's got one hundred fifty seven thousand followers.
Speaker 5: Online, so do a lot online. And then the I mean.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow photo being the cover, it's really and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not even attracted to him, but that's like a
Speaker 1: really good cover. There's two covers. I got the exclusive.
Speaker 1: The guy could have lied to my face. He goes,
Speaker 1: this cover is only in New York. I go, We'll
Speaker 1: take it.
Speaker 5: I mean they're.
Speaker 1: There, they have France and worldwide distribution as so it
Speaker 1: feels like but the dot com what's that called?
Speaker 5: The extension on the website is dot b E?
Speaker 3: What is that? What is dot b E?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but you belt like the way you're
Speaker 2: researching right now, it looks like a close up of
Speaker 2: a movie of like the Net by Sandra Bullock, like
Speaker 2: you were in trying to get behind it, getting the secrets,
Speaker 2: getting behind it.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to go behind the blinds on behind the blinds.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. So Belgium there in Belgium a
Speaker 3: little bit.
Speaker 5: I mean that's where their website is, That's where their
Speaker 5: website is.
Speaker 2: And yeah, maybe I'm being too America focused and this
Speaker 2: is like this is a huge magazine in France and
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: When you go to the website, it's everything's in English.
Speaker 1: But maybe that's because of where I am. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but like it's very this is very stylized. This is
Speaker 1: very you know.
Speaker 2: No, it's gorgeous and the Wonderland I bought, like the
Speaker 2: photos are gorgeous, and what I loved about the.
Speaker 5: Wonderland magazine with Hudson.
Speaker 2: Usually you have to like dig for the cover piece
Speaker 2: because they want you to look at everything. And they
Speaker 2: just had him first. Yeah, it was like just we
Speaker 2: know what you're here for. And so I really appreciated
Speaker 2: that in the magazine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, usually they make you page because they've got ads
Speaker 1: to sell, right, I know, Well, I'm spending thirty dollars
Speaker 1: a magazine for that one, and I spent twenty eight.
Speaker 5: Dollars on shipping.
Speaker 2: It was like twenty five for the magazine, twenty for
Speaker 2: shipping for that Wonderland that I got. So that's why
Speaker 2: with these news stands, you know, it's like it's better.
Speaker 2: And now that I'm in with them, I'm gonna well, okay, I.
Speaker 1: Mean I'm glad you're getting it. I'm glad you're keeping
Speaker 1: these newsstands alive. I'm sure they're happy. I mean, it
Speaker 1: feels like Beatlemania or something with this.
Speaker 2: It is because I was standing outside because obviously I
Speaker 2: was debating getting the second cover or not so so
Speaker 2: standing outside the store for another ten to fifteen minutes
Speaker 2: and girls are going in and out, in and out.
Speaker 2: The girls are going in and out. I could have
Speaker 2: had a little bouncer clicker. I could have been I
Speaker 2: could have been doing the.
Speaker 1: Doors counting to make sure the capacity is up to code.
Speaker 2: And then you know, I hit up a bookstore. Okay,
Speaker 2: so I did finish a book. I would like to say.
Speaker 2: You said people were interested in my romance life.
Speaker 5: Which books? You have to name the titles? Yeah, so
Speaker 5: I finished.
Speaker 1: Kat Sebastian, who's doing the historical gay called after Hours
Speaker 1: at Dooryard Books. I wish the name was different. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's a reason for that name of the bookstore.
Speaker 1: Because I can't. I have to look at it still
Speaker 1: like I cannot run the title. I loved it. I
Speaker 1: think she actually had to self publish this one, honestly,
Speaker 1: because it's just she owns it, like in the book
Speaker 1: when I looked, but it was beautiful.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Speaker 2: It's a nineteen sixty eight New York I used bookstore.
Speaker 2: Vietnam War is happening, you know, like FBI folk music.
Speaker 2: It's just like a lot, and it's so good and
Speaker 2: I love these characters so much, and yeah, I was
Speaker 2: like obsessed.
Speaker 1: So now I have like eight book I have like
Speaker 1: so many books in my apartment. We'll see which one
Speaker 1: I'll pick up. You got a list. I just finished
Speaker 1: a book this morning. Yeah, yesteryear.
Speaker 5: But you guys have to join the Patreon if you
Speaker 5: want to hear me.
Speaker 1: Talk about it. We're going to wow a real tease,
Speaker 1: a real tea. This was the biggest sweet teased.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sorry, that's the that's holding it over, holding it hostage,
Speaker 1: holding my book opinions hostage, but for free. I will
Speaker 1: tell you what I thought about The Sheep Detectives, which
Speaker 1: is a movie I saw a Memorial Day. It's really cute.
Speaker 1: I did get teary a couple of times. The kids
Speaker 1: were absolutely confused the whole fucking time.
Speaker 5: I took four kids to this movie by myself.
Speaker 1: We met up with three other kids, and so there
Speaker 1: were a ton of kids. They were like, because you know,
Speaker 1: it's about a murder. Hugh Jackman gets murdered at the beginning,
Speaker 1: not like in a bloody way, but he is dead,
Speaker 1: and kids, it's really big on the poster. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's in the preview, so I don't feel like I'm
Speaker 1: giving anything over.
Speaker 2: No, I know, but like, I can't believe they make
Speaker 2: him so big and then he's dead right away.
Speaker 1: He is, But I mean, he comes back through flashbacks
Speaker 1: and through he also comes back through like you know,
Speaker 1: they have like dreams where they're talking to him and stuff.
Speaker 1: But the sheep are voiced by all these great it's
Speaker 1: it's the sheep detectives. Of course, I'm gonna let oh
Speaker 1: my god, it just yeah clicked Julia, Luis Dreyfus and
Speaker 1: Brian like two of the main sheep, and like, but
Speaker 1: the kids were it's basically knives out for kids. It's
Speaker 1: like there's a thing and you and you go through
Speaker 1: this like cute little town and everybody's like like kind
Speaker 1: of a suspect and all these people had issues with
Speaker 1: the guy who died. And and then you know who
Speaker 1: is the main character in it. I'm not a succession person,
Speaker 1: but cousin Greg is like the star of the movie.
Speaker 5: Okay, good friend.
Speaker 1: He's like but he has got a British accent. He's
Speaker 1: doing a British accent. Cool, so he's talking like he's
Speaker 1: the like bumbling police officer trying to fit it all together.
Speaker 1: And then another main character is Molly Gordon of theater
Speaker 1: Camp and Bear Fame. Wait, do you know about Drew Ski. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard of him obviously.
Speaker 2: Did you watch his short that he put out online
Speaker 2: about black British actors doing like slave and like trauma
Speaker 2: black American parts. No, the he's a genius. He's like
Speaker 2: truly a genius of our time.
Speaker 1: The only Drewski stuff I have taken in is his
Speaker 1: Erica Kirk videos, which I love.
Speaker 5: He's like a genius, Like he's truly.
Speaker 2: Like I got the production value and what he did
Speaker 2: in this video because I was like familiar with the
Speaker 2: hits and popular and then I saw this and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is like going to go down
Speaker 2: in history.
Speaker 5: That's how I felt.
Speaker 2: So if you guys haven't seen the like him playing
Speaker 2: the British actor and like just the production that the
Speaker 2: production alone for like something to put online.
Speaker 5: I just was so impressed.
Speaker 1: Well, he's been around, he's, like, I think, a big
Speaker 1: YouTube guy.
Speaker 5: So he's got the money for the production, right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he's very successful and famous. I'm just an
Speaker 2: older woman. Yeah, I'm just needing him.
Speaker 1: I had heard of him only vaguely through like you know,
Speaker 1: I wrote for the Streamy Awards, Like I heard of
Speaker 1: him vaguely until the Erica Kirk and then I was
Speaker 1: like I like this guy.
Speaker 5: I'm down with Drew Ski. I'm sure he's done something.
Speaker 1: Bad, but no, I think he's like I think, I
Speaker 1: think he's like cool and se she got so upset
Speaker 1: about it and was like, this man doing white face.
Speaker 3: Oh whatever, go fuck yourselves.
Speaker 5: I'm so annoyed.
Speaker 1: I love I love when somebody gets under their skin.
Speaker 1: It's the best. Okay, So the Heated Rivalry show, it
Speaker 1: was so fun. Yeah, it was really fun. My friend
Speaker 1: Gail came and she's like as obsessed as I am.
Speaker 5: What was a topic? Okay? Yeah, So because like everybody that.
Speaker 1: Does the show kind of like does like a bit
Speaker 1: or like a presentation right on, like yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: So my cover looked like this, and it's Heated Rivalry,
Speaker 1: a tale of an obsession and a self imposed intervention. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: so you see what it says photo saft What is
Speaker 1: it a picture of?
Speaker 5: Oh? It's like a butt against a butt?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: So my friend took a screenshot of that video and
Speaker 1: sent it to me and then I saved it, and
Speaker 1: then I just thought it was funny the photosh photos.
Speaker 1: Can you can you sund that to me so I
Speaker 1: can put it on the stories with you on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually will set you no pressure to look
Speaker 2: at it, but I will send you and Casey the
Speaker 2: whole PowerPoint and you, I think we deserve it at
Speaker 2: this time we've been don't even care enough. I'd like
Speaker 2: to see it, and I think you guys are smart
Speaker 2: enough to put it together without context. But yeah, that
Speaker 2: was the cover and I had fun. It was people
Speaker 2: that really got me, and I got like some really
Speaker 2: big reactions and laughs and excitement, and then sometimes it
Speaker 2: was dead silent in a way. That was the point
Speaker 2: of the presentation was public shame, you know. But I
Speaker 2: think everyone really liked that. I have bought heated Rivalry
Speaker 2: Shane and Ilia collection of scented candles, and I am
Speaker 2: allergic to fragrance and cannot light them.
Speaker 5: So people really like that. But you can't even like
Speaker 5: candles that are fragranced.
Speaker 2: Some upen some are lighter, so they can't like I
Speaker 2: have some that are lighter, like I know by the
Speaker 2: smells what I can handle, and then some I power
Speaker 2: through anyways, but my eyeshuts, like my right eye shuts,
Speaker 2: and I just don't feel it and I get stuffed,
Speaker 2: like it's just like an eye thing because one time
Speaker 2: I was at my house after my cleaning lady was
Speaker 2: here and I wasn't feeling but I couldn't put it together,
Speaker 2: and I was like, the bitch, let my tailor swift
Speaker 2: candle and so like I had to put the lid
Speaker 2: on it. But I like this other one that's more
Speaker 2: clean scenting, like it's fragrance mixed three. So it's like
Speaker 2: you don't ever really know, and I'm not going to
Speaker 2: deep dive ingredients, but by the smells, I can tell
Speaker 2: what will be.
Speaker 1: Okay, there's a banana candle I can handle, but yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: got it?
Speaker 3: Got it? The eyes? That makes sense.
Speaker 5: The eyes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just feels like when I walk into Sephora,
Speaker 2: like it's just like so overwhelming with scent that I
Speaker 2: just my eyes begin to kind of shut.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But it was cool to be in a room where
Speaker 2: everyone was obsessed and excited and people gave bracelets. And
Speaker 2: then I brought an extra V Man magazine because I
Speaker 2: bought I think four when I got them, and.
Speaker 1: Someone donated to the food bank to get it. That
Speaker 1: was my kind of fun idea. I think I saw that.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, I was really excited about that. I always
Speaker 1: love to do a tie in. Well, but I'm dying
Speaker 1: to hear about the theater experience you had recently too.
Speaker 3: I move off of heated rivalry.
Speaker 2: But no, so everyone knows I was invested in this
Speaker 2: junior high production of Shrek junior at in my neighborhood.
Speaker 5: She's an investor in the place.
Speaker 1: She's going to see if they can take it to Broadway.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: No, but Vinny, the guy who is the other regular
Speaker 2: at my coffee shop, who how I got and like
Speaker 2: knew about any of this, and a.
Speaker 5: Bunch of the coffee shop people came.
Speaker 1: It's just really cute, Like I've really cultivated a cutie
Speaker 1: like community. But and I didn't cultivate it. I joined
Speaker 1: it after showing up every day for two years.
Speaker 2: But and now I just have the I've never been
Speaker 2: off the road this much, you know, Like it is
Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, cool. I've just never had
Speaker 2: such stability in my life ever, even staying at an
Speaker 2: apartment like that, Like it just feels very peaceful. So
Speaker 2: my friend Julia came to meet me, and so Vinnie
Speaker 2: did the set and the set was gorgeous. We did
Speaker 2: sit next to three really bad kids. Julia said, they
Speaker 2: weren't that bad, but I just feel like they were talking.
Speaker 2: They were so annoying to me. Everyone was shushing them.
Speaker 2: One person said, shut the fuck out, like everyone shushed. Oh,
Speaker 2: the principal was so hot at the school, Like the
Speaker 2: principle is the most fuckable principle I've ever seen in
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 5: I don't it was. It was cool.
Speaker 2: The kids were incredible, so cutey cutie. It was like
Speaker 2: such a cute show. I would say. The standouts for
Speaker 2: me were Pinocchio, Donkey, and Fiona, the girl with the
Speaker 2: that was the drag.
Speaker 5: A lot of them played different parts, gorgeous voices.
Speaker 2: Some of them are stars, and he's actually gonna do
Speaker 2: free headshots for them because you know, you realize most
Speaker 2: child actors are rich kids, you know, so so he's
Speaker 2: gonna give them all free headshots. And then he had
Speaker 2: friends come in and tape it all. So then they
Speaker 2: have like these reels and they were really awesome, and
Speaker 2: then some it's like, well, you know, kids are shy
Speaker 2: or they are looking around, you know there. It's just
Speaker 2: it was a really wholesome, amazing.
Speaker 3: Oh I love it.
Speaker 1: My friend's kid just was in it in like Connecticut,
Speaker 1: but I just like, I've never seen Shrek the musical.
Speaker 5: And then suddenly all middle schools across the.
Speaker 2: Nation are, well, it's Shrek Junior, so it is condensed
Speaker 2: in the song.
Speaker 5: Oh my god. Four Quad was so funny.
Speaker 1: I mean they were great for you, like Shrek was awesome,
Speaker 1: Like it was awesome, but you know with schools they
Speaker 1: have to add random parts, so it's like the priest
Speaker 1: has a line here, you know, everyone's everyone's around and
Speaker 1: double dip it.
Speaker 5: It was awesome.
Speaker 2: But then we went to a place to get dinner
Speaker 2: after and have some drinks. Then other friends were in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood. Then I'm at a bar. Then my spot's
Speaker 2: not till twelve forty five. Next thing you know, it's
Speaker 2: five am. I have to be up by eleven for
Speaker 2: my Russian. Then you know, I was interviewing a batgam
Speaker 2: in person for something and then I puked and then
Speaker 2: it was truly the worst hangover of my life that
Speaker 2: I've never I would say top five from the Shrek
Speaker 2: after party.
Speaker 5: Wow yeah.
Speaker 2: And I just like sat at the bar with a
Speaker 2: manager and a bartender from the cellar, Like it wasn't
Speaker 2: like I went dancing all night, like truly.
Speaker 3: The manager was like, okay, bye, guys, I've locked it up.
Speaker 2: Like it was psychotic, like just the three of us
Speaker 2: sat at an empty bar. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: music was playing till five in the morning. And then
Speaker 2: I had so many tasks and I go, I didn't
Speaker 2: even play this, and my Russian teacher goes, yeah, you
Speaker 2: seem to say that a lot, and I was like, okay.
Speaker 5: That's true.
Speaker 1: I go, I don't have cause there are nights where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I'm getting lit tonight, or like we're
Speaker 1: going out, and I don't. I never feel like I
Speaker 1: get as drunk those nights as the ones where I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's like Jake Claire, oh my god, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's totally go here. Let's have a few drinks, and
Speaker 1: then they all go home, and then I still have
Speaker 1: a show at one in the morning, and then you know,
Speaker 1: I did get in a fight with someone about mom Donnie.
Speaker 5: We'll see, it doesn't even matter. I don't care. I
Speaker 5: don't care. I love our mayor.
Speaker 1: But my legs were shaking, Kara, like my legs were shaking.
Speaker 1: I was on FaceTime with friends as I was puking.
Speaker 1: I had them on mute, like I puked for hours.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I held it together for the backgammon
Speaker 1: guy because he's one of the only one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty grand masters in the world. Like, honestly, I am
Speaker 1: impressed with myself. It's like when you find out a
Speaker 1: picture was blacked out and did a no hit, like
Speaker 1: the way I talked to this backgammon guy.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And then immediately they they they had the producers had
Speaker 2: to talk to him and I go, you guys, I
Speaker 2: really got to run to another meeting.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 2: I had another twenty minutes, but I had to puke.
Speaker 2: I had to puke, I would say. Even then after
Speaker 2: the FaceTime, I showered, I had Chipotle, I slept. Then
Speaker 2: our friend Liby came over and she brought me like
Speaker 2: ginger Ale and snat like she was a sweet angel.
Speaker 2: Then I read a little bit before I had shows.
Speaker 2: I had three shows then I but I had to
Speaker 2: I got another.
Speaker 1: I got hung over again, like at like ten pm,
Speaker 1: I got more headache and more nauseous, like it happened again.
Speaker 1: And then I performed and I did I have Yeah, yeah, wow, Wow,
Speaker 1: that was.
Speaker 5: A long story.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but like and it all started just from
Speaker 2: Shrek Junior because we had a beer before.
Speaker 1: So it's like we grabbed a beer. Oh yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't go intostrect Junior totally sober. Come on, you gotta
Speaker 1: lo you gotta lu bappa a little bit for Shrek Junior.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I couldn't brush my teeth or I would
Speaker 2: have got like I like, I didn't brush my teeth
Speaker 2: till the evening.
Speaker 5: I couldn't have handled it.
Speaker 3: I mean, damn, I'm like.
Speaker 1: The closest I have is I was drinking publicly at
Speaker 1: a park when my kids played on Friday afternoon.
Speaker 5: And then I was at soul Cycle Saturday.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: You that's the thing.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how
Speaker 3: I do it, and I don't know. I don't either.
Speaker 1: I don't feel good, if you want to know, I
Speaker 1: don't feel great.
Speaker 5: It's not yet I'm an overall great result.
Speaker 2: No, I've had a chronic cough. I've been I have
Speaker 2: like a fucking inhaler. Now I have to do nasal sprays.
Speaker 2: Ask the medicine for a full month. She's like, you
Speaker 2: have to stop smoking weed. I'm gonna light something right now,
Speaker 2: Like I I don't feel physically great, but I push it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna walk the bridge to my friend's house after
Speaker 2: we record today.
Speaker 5: She just yeah, breathe in some small that's a great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do it?
Speaker 5: You brought up a smog? How dareio?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: We are the city of smog.
Speaker 2: Of course there's smog, but the view of New York
Speaker 2: City as you walk the bridge magic.
Speaker 5: It's magic. Yeah, it's great. We've been getting some what
Speaker 5: are people?
Speaker 1: No, We've been getting some messages from people who are
Speaker 1: going to see the play that Marishka's in the every Brilliance. Okay,
Speaker 1: I saw a clip it looked cringe. I'm scared. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Can people please tell us how it is?
Speaker 1: People are saying it's good.
Speaker 5: Just watching her. I don't know. It was mute. I
Speaker 5: watched it on mute.
Speaker 2: It's just there's certain things that make me uncomfortable, like
Speaker 2: Connor's story doing clowning, Like I can't, I have to
Speaker 2: avert my eyes. There's just like certain things, you know,
Speaker 2: like when Marishka goes you know, like I'm so funny,
Speaker 2: I'm like I can't like just or like when Taylor.
Speaker 2: There's just there's things that make me uncomfortable. But maybe
Speaker 2: I should do clowning and stop judging people and be
Speaker 2: more comfortable in my own skin.
Speaker 1: So wait, Marishka is gonna be in it until July.
Speaker 1: I have time, and then Tracy Ellis Ross is gonna
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 5: I will see it. I will.
Speaker 3: I have to see it. I'm lucky I'm in New York.
Speaker 3: I get to see.
Speaker 1: Unless I went on like closing night or something. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll see if I can get to care because I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be there. Casey, I'm going to send
Speaker 1: it to your Gmail. See you guys. So it's easier
Speaker 1: because I did it on Google slides perfect.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sending it to you because maybe you can
Speaker 2: have a report back on at our post war notes
Speaker 2: at the mortam. Oh but the brace yeah, the bracelets
Speaker 2: I was given fucking fuck San Francisco.
Speaker 5: Love that m you don't even get it.
Speaker 2: And then I'm just a bellboy, which you seem like
Speaker 2: you have a blank face on that as well. They're
Speaker 2: both heat to rivalry references that are like pretty I
Speaker 2: saw it one time, I saw it one Casey's answer said,
Speaker 2: do you think I'm more annoying than Marvel people.
Speaker 3: Do you think I've crossed over? Am I a Marvel person?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 5: What's happened?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 6: No, I wouldn't say, you're I think. I think there's
Speaker 6: culture with Here to Revelry. I think it has value.
Speaker 6: I think it's art, and I don't think. I don't
Speaker 6: find it as I mean, I find it annoying in
Speaker 6: that it gets brought up every episode, but it's not
Speaker 6: I don't find it like.
Speaker 2: There have been episodes where I don't bring it up
Speaker 2: except to say I haven't.
Speaker 5: Brought it up.
Speaker 6: That's true, but no, I I try to push the limits.
Speaker 6: I understand being obsessed with Here to Drivelry more than
Speaker 6: Marvel is what I would say.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, that's all I needed to hear. And
Speaker 1: you want to add to the intro. I mean, this
Speaker 1: has been a real I know that's the thing up here.
Speaker 3: I've went.
Speaker 1: I saw sheep detectives and I drank in a park
Speaker 1: in front of my children that I don't have any
Speaker 1: I don't have any uh crazy puking and then talking
Speaker 1: to a grand master of backgammon story this week. I mean, no,
Speaker 1: I ran in some weeks, but I have them some
Speaker 1: weeks I don't.
Speaker 2: I ran into Tommy Brennan, who you know, is off scenal,
Speaker 2: which is always like you see, I mean, everyone loves
Speaker 2: being on sl whatever, but like you see them being
Speaker 2: so happy to be back at the cellar and doing
Speaker 2: comedy again.
Speaker 5: That schedule is so.
Speaker 2: Grueling, you know, like the POSTESSNL summer vibe. When you
Speaker 2: see them, they are just they're so happy. There's just
Speaker 2: he did a little bit more freedom.
Speaker 1: You know. He did my show a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: and I don't know anything about him. I was like,
Speaker 1: he's this new guy on SNL. I've never seen him before.
Speaker 1: He was so funny. His stand up was so funny.
Speaker 1: He like absolutely crushed at the show. And then he
Speaker 1: made a little video for my friend's kid, who is
Speaker 1: obsessed with SNL and it was his birthday.
Speaker 2: He's such a nice guy. Well, he has six sisters.
Speaker 2: He is a theater kid. He's like a theater boy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he just I think is a great guy, works hard,
Speaker 2: is a good stand up and I hope much keep
Speaker 2: continued success yeah on SNL as well.
Speaker 1: But so I ran into him. So we're talking and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I have to do. This is before
Speaker 1: this is in the midst of the drinking. I think
Speaker 1: maybe the day after whatever.
Speaker 2: So I'm like explaining all the it's like post hangover maybe,
Speaker 2: but he goes, Honestly, you're He's like, I've never met
Speaker 2: someone that's constantly working so hard for a podcast.
Speaker 5: He's like, every time I run.
Speaker 2: Into you, you're panicking about a murder. You have to
Speaker 2: read like I've He's like, every time I see you,
Speaker 2: you're doing the most research I've ever seen anybody do
Speaker 2: for a podcast. Like, yeah, it's true because for this
Speaker 2: other one, I've set up Etsy shops there, I've talked
Speaker 2: to vending machine people, I'm doing online surveys, I'm doing
Speaker 2: all these side gigs.
Speaker 1: I'm interviewing pet influencers. I don't even know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really need to.
Speaker 1: Say it's just for our listeners. This she's talking about
Speaker 1: for a to be a team. I'm a future project
Speaker 1: that is coming out soon, and thank God for the
Speaker 1: production and writing team. Like for our podcast, we do
Speaker 1: I mean casey product, but like we do all of
Speaker 1: our own stuff.
Speaker 5: Like for at least this other we.
Speaker 1: Have a lot of support, but I don't have to
Speaker 1: do any like I'm not like the words are done
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 5: I get the one sheets on the people.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So I am but yeah, yeah, wow, But at least
Speaker 2: the Grandmaster is a skill. I'm talking to mostly grifters,
Speaker 2: if I'm being honest, I'm talking to people that teach
Speaker 2: courses online on how to have better at sea shops.
Speaker 2: Oh like, I'm creating all these businesses for this podcast,
Speaker 2: and then I'm talking to the professionals in it to
Speaker 2: improve it and see if we can create money on
Speaker 2: these side hustles.
Speaker 1: Kind of like a course we just read about in
Speaker 1: a book that we just read. Yes, I know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Okay, let's get started. As always, if
Speaker 1: you want to hear us chat about Yesteryear, or you
Speaker 1: want to see our interviews with fun comedy people talking
Speaker 1: about SVU or all the other stuff, our Twilight reviews,
Speaker 1: other stuff we're doing, go to our Patreon, Patreon dot com,
Speaker 1: slash That's messed Up. That's messed Up Live dot com
Speaker 1: has links to Lisa's tour dates, to our merch and yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it.
Speaker 3: Let's get started. Okay.
Speaker 1: Today's episode Motherly Love from season eighteen, episode ten.
Speaker 5: Twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: We're taking it back to February of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: We open on a kid in an Uber calling his
Speaker 1: mom NonStop and it's going straight to voicemail and he
Speaker 1: will not let his mom live. He's leaving her a
Speaker 1: message being like he's a little too whiny for how
Speaker 1: old he is. You feel like he looks like fifteen
Speaker 1: or sixteen. And he's like he's like bombed out. He
Speaker 1: got in a fight with his dad. He's like, where
Speaker 1: are you when you're answering the phone, I'm almost home.
Speaker 1: And then he gets out of the Uber and thanks
Speaker 1: the driver and it's like a GBC Yukon like this kid.
Speaker 1: It ordered like Uber black and Uber XL. Like if
Speaker 1: you order Uber Black, can you also say I want
Speaker 1: a big one?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Of course black? O okay Black Excel. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 1: Black Excel. Because I was like, what lab black I
Speaker 1: think of like small Mercedes Sedan.
Speaker 2: What I love about LA is like the Uber Blacks
Speaker 2: are only three four dollars more. Yeah, like you're like
Speaker 2: a lot of and if it's really far, it's doubler
Speaker 2: it's the airport or whatever. But like the little like
Speaker 2: ten to twenty minute car rides. We're only like three
Speaker 2: four dollars and it's yeah, I'm getting in a Yukon.
Speaker 2: Are you out of your mind?
Speaker 1: Also, like the culture in la is to like have
Speaker 1: a nicer car that you can afford for a lot
Speaker 1: of people. So like I think that every like there's
Speaker 1: just a lot more like people are like, oh I.
Speaker 3: Have a Lexus.
Speaker 1: I guess I can be uber black, you know. But
Speaker 1: so okay, he gets out, thanks, the driver goes inside.
Speaker 1: He starts to walk upstairs, and we hear, like, you know,
Speaker 1: we've been here before in like the Chloe seven ye episode.
Speaker 3: Right, what's that one called Valentine's Day? Valentine's Day? Right?
Speaker 5: Got it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because I was like.
Speaker 2: Because I want to do it, because I want to
Speaker 2: I want to talk to Chloe.
Speaker 1: Seven yet, I know, but I was thinking of my
Speaker 1: funny Valentine, which is a different one.
Speaker 2: Which is a different one, which is the Rihanna one,
Speaker 2: which I'd never want to watch.
Speaker 3: So we don't want to ever do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's always that happens to be constant where I go,
Speaker 2: oh yay Chloe Sevinier and then I go get this
Speaker 2: out of my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And the Valentine has us all fucked up.
Speaker 1: So he we hear like moaning that could be like,
Speaker 1: it could be pleasurable consensual moaning, but it could also
Speaker 1: be painful assault moaning.
Speaker 5: We don't know. And the ball like obviously, as a fifteen.
Speaker 1: Year old boy, hearing your mom making those noises, you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: something is wrong.
Speaker 5: So he calls nine one one.
Speaker 1: Then he gets a rifle out of the closet that
Speaker 1: was extremely easy to access. I'll just say that we're
Speaker 1: hearing these noises. We can't tell, like I said, if
Speaker 1: it's consensual or assault. When he gets to the kitchen,
Speaker 1: his mom is bent over the table over the kitchen
Speaker 1: island excuse me, and is being you know, penetrated from behind.
Speaker 1: We can't really see the face of who's doing it.
Speaker 1: And when we see her son. When she sees her son,
Speaker 1: she screams, help, he's raping me. And then the screen
Speaker 1: goes black and we just hear the sound of a gunshot.
Speaker 1: So now it's Benson Finn Carreese rawlins. Everybody's on the scene, okay,
Speaker 1: and they meet Detective Parry from Homicide and the attacker
Speaker 1: is dead. His name is Trey Franklin, age fifteen, already
Speaker 1: like what rifle shot to the head close range?
Speaker 5: Luke Keller is the shooter.
Speaker 1: Fifteen, he saw Franklin assaulting his mother, doctor Nicole Keller,
Speaker 1: age forty five. So the guys, the guys take the sun,
Speaker 1: the galas take the mom.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 1: So Finn and Careese go to talk to Luke and
Speaker 1: he's still like I'm sorry, he's been through a trauma,
Speaker 1: but he's kind of like a whiny little bitch and
Speaker 1: like he's like.
Speaker 4: I had to do it. He was raping my mom.
Speaker 1: And then he was like, I was supposed to say
Speaker 1: my dad's we got in a fight. He came, I
Speaker 1: came home around nine. I wanted to talk to my mom.
Speaker 1: I tried calling and she wasn't answering, And then he
Speaker 1: says she was supposed to be home doing paperwork.
Speaker 3: She's a psychiatrist.
Speaker 1: So he describes what happened and how he went to
Speaker 1: grab his rifle, and both Karesi and Finn look at
Speaker 1: each other like why does this whiny fifteen year old
Speaker 1: have a gun?
Speaker 5: And then he goes, oh, it was a gift for
Speaker 5: my dad.
Speaker 1: He likes to go hunting, and then he saw this
Speaker 1: guy attacking the mom.
Speaker 5: She yelled for help.
Speaker 1: He shot, but he didn't think he was actually gonna
Speaker 1: hit him, like he's not like I'm.
Speaker 5: Not crazy, Like I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1: I'm like this kid, and we learned he's like not
Speaker 1: a you know, it's not like a hunting aficionado.
Speaker 5: So it's like how did he do it? Point blank
Speaker 5: like that?
Speaker 2: But then it's like our rifle is more surface cereat
Speaker 2: Like if I shot a gun without having experience, I
Speaker 2: think i'd fly back, Like I don't get how it
Speaker 2: was such an accurate shot, wouldn't have shot his mother,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing like with with like shotguns.
Speaker 5: This is a rifle.
Speaker 1: Like with like shotguns, the balls of the shotgun like
Speaker 1: spray everywhere. So like if he had shot like a shotgun,
Speaker 1: it would have hit a lot of people, Like I
Speaker 1: think there's more of a chance. I think that's why
Speaker 1: people in older times like used to use shotguns to
Speaker 1: get animals, because you'll wound the animal.
Speaker 5: Casey, I don't know, you don't think about guns.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I've read is that shotgun
Speaker 1: stuff like sprays. But then like rifles are more like
Speaker 1: it is wild that this guy hits the kid like
Speaker 1: a kill shot with one shot and is barely a
Speaker 1: gun enthusiast. And I would say a weak looking boy, yes,
Speaker 1: like to even have the wherewithal Yeah, he seems like
Speaker 1: a really sensitive young boy.
Speaker 2: This this episode's tough, not real. Yeah, there's been tougher.
Speaker 2: It's fine, No, it's tough.
Speaker 5: It's stuff. It's sad. The boy's dead.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And so now we're at Benson and Rollins there with
Speaker 1: Nicole the victim, and she's like, I need to see Luke.
Speaker 1: He can't handle the stress. He has a lot of
Speaker 1: generalized anxiety. And I was like, who doesn't, ma'am, Like
Speaker 1: everyone has that, and then they But now I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I feel.
Speaker 3: Bad for saying he was winy.
Speaker 1: He has generalized anxiety, but he is I don't know,
Speaker 1: the actor is driving making me a little annoyed.
Speaker 3: And he is like a child actor. This guy. I
Speaker 3: looked him up, but I don't really know him for much.
Speaker 1: The actress playing Nicole is Sarah Winter, who I think
Speaker 1: everybody knows from twenty four and other projects as well,
Speaker 1: But twenty four is like, I think her big thing,
Speaker 1: so They asked her what happened, and she goes, I
Speaker 1: was in the kitchen getting some wine. I turned around,
Speaker 1: he was right there. I tried to get away. He
Speaker 1: overpowered me. It's like, I know there are like large
Speaker 1: fifteen year olds, but I don't know fifteen. I feel
Speaker 1: like eighteen is when they're like more big. But whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, Ed Kemper killed. You know, I think
Speaker 1: his grandparents at fifteen. That's true, that's but great. Yeah
Speaker 1: grandparents is they're old they yeah, whatever, I hear. I hear,
Speaker 1: well he killed his parents then too. I think I
Speaker 1: think he killed everyone. Killed his mother. Yes, I remember
Speaker 1: specifically him taking his mother's vocal cords out. Yes, I
Speaker 1: do recall specific so fucked so so I was shocking.
Speaker 2: In some comics, I go, yeah, I'm trying to do
Speaker 2: this Green River Killer a bit. We'll see when you know,
Speaker 2: I can figure it out. People are upset, you know,
Speaker 2: and someone goes, oh, is there a new serial killer?
Speaker 5: I go, no, not at.
Speaker 3: All, just no these old school I'd say, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I've just learned about him though. So me, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like we don't.
Speaker 1: Have that many new serial killers because there's like too
Speaker 1: much technology. Now, you know the fact that Dexter is
Speaker 1: getting away with it in the modern age is wild
Speaker 1: or young Dexter. Don't implicate him. He's done nothing, He's
Speaker 1: done barely anything wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did murder, he did murder.
Speaker 1: He murdered one rapist, yes, yeah, and then felt guilty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's crazy that he got away with it, like
Speaker 1: in a hotel with so many cameras.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying, like, you know, he was trained by
Speaker 5: the best. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I wish it didn't happen. I've thought
Speaker 1: it was very satisfying when it happened. I don't think
Speaker 1: that serial killers are so prolific now because there's DNA,
Speaker 1: there's more CCTV, there's like so many more ways. Like
Speaker 1: even this fucking guy Coburger that was like a criminal
Speaker 1: justice major and worked on it for probably years, fucked
Speaker 1: up and made a bunch of mistakes and they found him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, but he killed college.
Speaker 1: I think there are still the vulnerable communities that we
Speaker 1: always talk about that are being murdered constantly and they
Speaker 1: are cereals. I think there are, yes, but not as
Speaker 1: many unfortunately, because those marginalized communities not as many like
Speaker 1: Son of Sam Ted Bundy's where it's taking the press
Speaker 1: by storm, where we hear about it, you know, like
Speaker 1: the last one they caught that I remember reading about
Speaker 1: in the paper was BTK when they caught him in
Speaker 1: like the twenty two thousands or twenty tens I forgot,
Speaker 1: but you know anyway, So they're like, well, how did
Speaker 1: this guy get in? And she's like, oh, I let
Speaker 1: him in. The music gets tense, so you knew him?
Speaker 1: She goes, yes, he was my son's best friend. Credits Uh, oh,
Speaker 1: what is happening? So now Benson is downloading Detective Perry
Speaker 1: on the whole son's BFF Infochrisy asks a good question
Speaker 1: like why did she let him in if her wasn't
Speaker 1: even home and they're like, oh, well, he asked to
Speaker 1: come in and do his homework. He's been having a
Speaker 1: tough time at home, so he was just chilling while
Speaker 1: the mom was working. And Caristie's wondering like if this
Speaker 1: was premeditated on the part of the Sun and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: he did call nine one one, and they're like, and
Speaker 1: the rifle was locked up. I'm like, if that rifle
Speaker 1: was locked up. It was locked up in a safe
Speaker 1: that had a one digit combo. Like that kid went
Speaker 1: in and grabbed the rifle. It took one second. So
Speaker 1: but it's registered to the dad, and so.
Speaker 3: Fucking dad in New York City has a fucking right.
Speaker 5: It's just it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: And then we find out later the dad's a psychiatrist too,
Speaker 1: him like, do you think it's like just to give
Speaker 1: your dad, your fifteen year old generalized anxiety son a rifle?
Speaker 1: Like that's a good idea, Like he has anxiety. I
Speaker 1: don't know, you think hunt, You think like snuffing out
Speaker 1: the life of a deer is going to like calm
Speaker 1: him down.
Speaker 5: That's going to be like what gets him zen? And like,
Speaker 5: you know, I just don't get it.
Speaker 1: But the rifle was registered to the dad, and he
Speaker 1: goes the shooting sounds justifiable to me, But I'm a cop,
Speaker 1: not a prosecutor. So then Trey Franklin's parents are on
Speaker 1: their way to the Emmy's office. So now we're at
Speaker 1: the hospital talking to Nicole. She says she knew not
Speaker 1: to let Trey into the house that night. Something was off.
Speaker 1: The way he looked at her made her uneasy. She
Speaker 1: didn't want to shut him out. She felt bad for
Speaker 1: him because of his home life. She said Trey came
Speaker 1: by at nine pm. Then he and Luke had studied,
Speaker 1: saying he and Luke had study plans. But she was like, well,
Speaker 1: that must be a mix up. Like he's at his
Speaker 1: dad's house in Westport, shout out to the divorced dads
Speaker 1: of Fairfield County, and he answered the door. She answered
Speaker 1: the door, sorry, in her nightgown. Then she said he
Speaker 1: worked downstairs. She went upstairs to her bedroom for an hour.
Speaker 1: Then she came back downstairs and told Trey it was
Speaker 1: time to go home. And she's like, well, why didn't
Speaker 1: you pick up when your son was calling? And then
Speaker 1: she goes, well, when I work, I just put my
Speaker 1: phone down. I don't really look at my phone. And
Speaker 1: Luke was with his dad. Do you start lying, yeah,
Speaker 1: Benson is sniffing this out kind of like immediately, and
Speaker 1: she goes, well, but you weren't working. You said you'd
Speaker 1: already put your work down, and so she's like yeah,
Speaker 1: and I went downstairs for a glass of wine hair relax,
Speaker 1: and that's yeah, And that's when I felt his presence
Speaker 1: behind me. She turned around. He put his hands on her.
Speaker 1: She tried to stop him, and she even told him,
Speaker 1: she said, I understand sexual impulses and urges. I'm a psychiatrist,
Speaker 1: and she's dealt with this before, like probably transference or whatever,
Speaker 1: like clients falling in love with her, having sexual feelings
Speaker 1: towards her. But then he put her on the kitchen
Speaker 1: counter or lifted up her nightgown and forced himself inside
Speaker 1: of her.
Speaker 3: She tried to scream.
Speaker 1: He put his hand over her mouth, so then she
Speaker 1: closed her eyes and tried to survive. She tried to
Speaker 1: just stay alive her son, and you know that, Like
Speaker 1: that's like she's using Olivia Benson language here, like you
Speaker 1: did what you had to do, you survived, like so
Speaker 1: she knows all the right things to say, this woman.
Speaker 1: And she looked up and he was standing there, Luke,
Speaker 1: and she yelled help. And then she heard the gun shot,
Speaker 1: so she knew about the gun. She said it was
Speaker 1: locked in a safe. I said, which a fifteen year
Speaker 1: old go open in one second, so very very safe.
Speaker 1: And then she said, but Luke is not a hunter.
Speaker 1: He's sensitive. He hated the idea of a gun in
Speaker 1: the house. He once saw a deer one hunting, but
Speaker 1: like he couldn't shoot. So again it's like, keep the
Speaker 1: gun at your dad's house in Westport, like Westport's much
Speaker 1: closer to areas where you would hunt, not Manhattan, like
Speaker 1: you know, so it just really doesn't make sense, but
Speaker 1: we have to have a gun there somehow. So back
Speaker 1: to Luke, who is peering through the blinds in wood
Speaker 1: room blinds. He's really giving blinds the time to shine,
Speaker 1: and he's worried about his mom, and Carisey's like, just
Speaker 1: take me through it step by step again, man, and
Speaker 1: then he's like, well, I didn't say stop or get
Speaker 1: off of her. I just reacted and I didn't realize
Speaker 1: it was Trey until afterwards, like we're best friends. I
Speaker 1: killed my best friend. He's crying. Luke's dad comes in,
Speaker 1: he's stressed. He's like, does Luke need a lawyer? And
Speaker 1: then Carisey's like, it looks like a good shooting, and
Speaker 1: the dad is like, I appreciate your honesty.
Speaker 3: We're done talking.
Speaker 1: So now we cut to Trey's pair pans identifying a
Speaker 1: bracelet on their son's like wrists and a scar on
Speaker 1: his arm. But because they're just showing him a photo right,
Speaker 1: the other parents. They're showing them a photo and then
Speaker 1: the mom's like, I want to see his body, and
Speaker 1: they're like that's a bad idea.
Speaker 3: You don't need to do that.
Speaker 1: I assumed it was because like maybe the wound was
Speaker 1: like really really bad and like you shouldn't see it
Speaker 1: your son like that, but I guess they're just like, no, don't.
Speaker 1: So then they tell them your son's killer is his friend, Luke,
Speaker 1: and then they're like incredulous, like they can't believe it,
Speaker 1: and they're like, he also said that your son was
Speaker 1: sexually assaulting his mom. And the parents are like, it's
Speaker 1: a wild amount of information for them to be taking
Speaker 1: in right as they stand ready to identify their son's body, like, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, his best friend killed him and said
Speaker 1: he was assaulting his mother. And they're like, Trey would
Speaker 1: never assault anyone. And the dad's like, is Luke under arrest?
Speaker 1: And when they say no, he's like, oh, okay, I
Speaker 1: get it. So a white kid shoots a black kid
Speaker 1: and it's the black kid's fault, and even the rape accusation,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like yes, racial stuff, Yes, totally, he's
Speaker 1: not wrong, which is probably why they sent Perry and
Speaker 1: Finn to speak to these parents who are both black,
Speaker 1: and they're kind of being like no, no, no, we're
Speaker 1: looking into all the angles and like assuring them, and
Speaker 1: the dad cries saying his kid was a great kid.
Speaker 1: It's really sad. These parents are good actors. And the
Speaker 1: mom demands to see her son. So they both go
Speaker 1: into the viewing room and the sheet pulls back and
Speaker 1: it is Trey just lying there with a bullet hole
Speaker 1: in his forehead, like he got him like right in
Speaker 1: this the head.
Speaker 5: I mean, like it's a really wild shot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just said he landed a kill shot for being
Speaker 1: a sensitive kid who hates hunting. So but now Benson
Speaker 1: is downloading Barba and Trey was an only child, a
Speaker 1: good kid, good grades, no priors. The rape kit found
Speaker 1: no seamen, minor abrasions. Nicole didn't mind her son being
Speaker 1: friends with Trey, but she had a bad feeling about
Speaker 1: him from the beginning. And then Luke panicked thought he
Speaker 1: could scare the Purple Way didn't realize it was his friend,
Speaker 1: Like whatever, they're giving him all the information. If they
Speaker 1: can figure out the study plan mix up, that could
Speaker 1: establish that Trey knew the mom would be home alone,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is like, that's the thing. There's no texts
Speaker 1: or emails between Luke and Trey, and you know, Benson's like.
Speaker 3: Check the socials, the lockers, the computers.
Speaker 1: So now they're at Trey's home, which is lovely, and
Speaker 1: they want his computer and electronic devices, and the dat
Speaker 1: is pissed. He's like, have you taken all of Luke's
Speaker 1: shit too? And you're acting like my son is the killer,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I want to get to the bottom
Speaker 1: of the Trey has a hard time at home. Like
Speaker 1: the parents are married, they look like they love each other.
Speaker 5: It's like totally race shit, that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's completely like she used that as like a
Speaker 1: thing that the Cubs will probably buy this. He's a
Speaker 1: black kid, you know, like he's a good student, he's
Speaker 1: got friends, like his parents are married. One's a professor,
Speaker 1: one's an oncology nurse. And I'm not saying like, of
Speaker 1: course things can look perfect as we know from SBU
Speaker 1: and not be perfect at home. But I'm just not
Speaker 1: getting the vibe of like we've been going through marriage
Speaker 1: troubles and it's really affecting him, Like no one is
Speaker 1: saying anything that makes it seem like this kid's having
Speaker 1: any fucking trouble at home at all, and they send
Speaker 1: him to a nice private school.
Speaker 5: So I don't know. Again, it's not like money.
Speaker 1: Stops all problems, but I'm not getting the vibes. So
Speaker 1: now they're in Trey's bedroom. They're like searching it where
Speaker 1: there is an American flag framed and hanging on the
Speaker 1: wall because classically teens love the USA, and Rollins and
Speaker 1: Finn are chatting, and Rollin's is like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: you don't just like wake up one day and decide
Speaker 1: to rape your best friend's mom. And all they're finding
Speaker 1: in the search is like dirty socks. She's like, there's
Speaker 1: no drugs, there's no booze. I'm not finding anything. But
Speaker 1: Finn gets under the mattress where he finds a book
Speaker 1: and when he pages through it, there's photos tucked inside
Speaker 1: of it, and there are photos of Trey posing with
Speaker 1: doctor Keller, who's undercovers in bed. He's smiling at the camera,
Speaker 1: her eyes are closed, and Finn goes, there's a lot
Speaker 1: more in here than dirty socks.
Speaker 3: Done. Done.
Speaker 5: So that's the end of Act one. Top of two.
Speaker 1: Rollins and Benson are confronting col with the photos, and
Speaker 1: Benson is kind of sarcastic, like, imagine our surprise, and
Speaker 1: Nicole is like, me too, I mean I had a
Speaker 1: sense he was stalking me, but now I know, And
Speaker 1: Benson's like, babe, you said you had a bad feeling
Speaker 1: about him. That's taking it Like that's a few steps
Speaker 1: below stalking. And then she like confirms, like it's me
Speaker 1: in the picture. Yes, but I'm asleep. I'm totally unaware
Speaker 1: that this adult teenager was taking pictures.
Speaker 5: There are no adult teenagers. There are teenagers. That's it.
Speaker 3: You're not an adult teenager.
Speaker 1: So well again, I guess a race thing again, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: boys are treated as adults faster. Well, and he's clearly
Speaker 1: a predator, lying bitch too, right, Like we know that
Speaker 1: this isn't going to go nowhere. This is SVU the
Speaker 1: show is. The episode's called Motherly Love, like we know,
Speaker 1: but like it's also kind of feels like if you look,
Speaker 1: if you flash forward to what happens, it's a bit
Speaker 1: of a way of her absolving herself like an adult teenager,
Speaker 1: like like a teenager that's big and mature and like
Speaker 1: a man you know, so it's okay to have sex
Speaker 1: with them or assault them, essentially. So Bedson asks, can
Speaker 1: we take a look around? And then she's like so
Speaker 1: and she lives in this beautiful multi floor apartment right
Speaker 1: And she's like, so, you're saying this kid walked up
Speaker 1: these stairs and then got on your bed and took
Speaker 1: these photos.
Speaker 5: And she's like, it's the only explanation.
Speaker 1: Of access, and Rollins goes, Nah, there are other explanations
Speaker 1: that make sense, like and then she goes, sometimes I
Speaker 1: sleep in the nude, sometimes I'm in a nightgown, sometimes
Speaker 1: in a Rolling Stones T shirt.
Speaker 5: Are you suggesting that I had sex with this boy?
Speaker 1: And then she goes, I'm just asking why you and
Speaker 1: that boy were in bed together naked, And she goes,
Speaker 1: because he was obsessed with me and snuck into my bed.
Speaker 1: She goes, you must be a sound sleeper. She got
Speaker 1: an answer for everything, this bitch. She goes, I've been
Speaker 1: on sleep medication in the last few months. So if
Speaker 1: you thought he was stalking you, why did you give
Speaker 1: him so much access to you? Like, why did you
Speaker 1: invite him into your home alone? At nine? It's like
Speaker 1: the classic thing of like if you tell the truth.
Speaker 1: You don't have to keep track of stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: like this woman can't. She can't keep anything straight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: She's like oh yeah, yeah, but she I don't know
Speaker 1: she didn't think this through before. Maybe she thought the
Speaker 1: cops weren't going to come back, like yeah, I think
Speaker 1: she's like arrogant, right, the arrogance of like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to get caught for this, right. So she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I was trying to help him, you know, the bad home,
Speaker 1: and then Rollins is like, yeah, she's on my side.
Speaker 1: She goes, where's the She said, there's no evidence of
Speaker 1: this troubled home life that you talk about, like we've
Speaker 1: checked out his life, like we're not seeing that. And
Speaker 1: Nicole's like, well, you know what I see patients who
Speaker 1: are rape I have patients who are rape victims, and
Speaker 1: I tell them don't blame yourself. I guess that's easier
Speaker 1: said than done. Like so now she's turning it back
Speaker 1: on Rollins and Benson like, why are you guys treating
Speaker 1: me like the purp So then on the night of
Speaker 1: the shooting, you were up here on the upstairs floor
Speaker 1: where like the master primary bedroom is and he was
Speaker 1: like and he was down here, so he never came
Speaker 1: up there, and she's like, like, why didn't he just
Speaker 1: go up there, Like if he was going to attack you,
Speaker 1: why did he wait for you.
Speaker 5: To come down to the kitchen.
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: And she says, Lieutenant, I think you and your colleague
Speaker 1: here should leave. Uh okay, rawlins that's a read and
Speaker 1: she goes, I'm sensing some underlying hostility and it's making
Speaker 1: me uncomfortable. And Benson goes, yeah, well, naked selfies of
Speaker 1: you and Trey are making me uncomfortable. And then she
Speaker 1: gives her signature Benson Glare, and she leaves. So now
Speaker 1: we are at what looks like the set for every
Speaker 1: private school that they go to in the show, like
Speaker 1: they're truly at like Columbia, or they're like at one
Speaker 1: of these you know, stone stained glass window places, and
Speaker 1: it's called Manor Hill Academy and it's in Riverdale in
Speaker 1: the Bronx, and a dude is telling CARIESI this kid
Speaker 1: that Trey was cool, like he's only been here since September,
Speaker 1: but he was cool, like he was a good guy,
Speaker 1: a lot of friends, and what about Luke And he's like,
Speaker 1: he's good guy too, but and he's like kind of
Speaker 1: a nerd. Carse He's like, I got a nose for nerds.
Speaker 1: So then Luke and Trey were close. He said, Trey
Speaker 1: looked out for Luke. Luke idolized Trey thought he was
Speaker 1: a god. And he goes, it's crazy that Luke ended
Speaker 1: up killing his god. And it's like, okay, all of
Speaker 1: that language is strange too, So weird from.
Speaker 3: Kid and looked up to this other kid, but it's
Speaker 3: just strange.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now we're speaking to an SVU classic trope right now,
Speaker 1: the uptight white lady who is the dean of a
Speaker 1: private school, and she's like, I've never heard rumors of
Speaker 1: Trey and Luke's mom. Is that what you think happened?
Speaker 1: And then they're like, we don't know, we're investigating, blah blah.
Speaker 1: What do you think like and he goes. She goes, well,
Speaker 1: Trey was a good kid for the most part, So
Speaker 1: what's the for the most part. Now, the kid that
Speaker 1: Carese was just talking to, Ethan is his name, is
Speaker 1: being brought into wood room Blinds with his dad for
Speaker 1: some follow up questions about his relationship with Trey, and
Speaker 1: the dad's like he's already answered all your questions and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, sir, they obviously have more and Cariese's like,
Speaker 1: so no issues between you and Trey and he's like, no, none,
Speaker 1: and he's like, because we just heard you both got
Speaker 1: suspended for getting into a fight a week ago, which
Speaker 1: like your parents would have known about two.
Speaker 3: So your dad's like sitting there listening to you lie.
Speaker 5: So they definitely use scare tactics on this kid.
Speaker 1: Tell him like, you know, lying to the cops could
Speaker 1: really fuck up your sweet lacrosse scholarship. So immediately the
Speaker 1: dad is like, you better talk son, and Ethan's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but dad, you need to leave. He's like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about this with you here, and the
Speaker 1: dad's like, no, spill it, and like he goes like
Speaker 1: I can't tell my dad, and the Dad's like, spit
Speaker 1: it out, and so Ethan's lower lip.
Speaker 3: Starts to shake.
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't think that many fifteen year
Speaker 1: old boys are a great actors.
Speaker 3: So I feel like whatever he's about to say is
Speaker 3: like truthful.
Speaker 1: So he cuts into Coole's home where she's opening the
Speaker 1: front door to find Benson and then needing to take
Speaker 1: her down to the station to ask some questions and Ethan,
Speaker 1: they say, Ethan Miller says, you sexually assaulted him ten
Speaker 1: maybe eleven times, then you moved on to Trey, and
Speaker 1: Ethan got upset and punched Tray and they got suspended.
Speaker 1: And Nicole is like, what their kids. They fantasize about
Speaker 1: older women women, It's a normal, healthy fantasy, and Benson's like, nope,
Speaker 1: nothing about statutory rape is natural. Let's go so in
Speaker 1: cement room bars now Benson and Fann are questioning Nicole.
Speaker 1: She's like, absolutely, not, unequivocally denying relationships with both boys.
Speaker 1: Seeing Ethan is lying, and they're like, when he told
Speaker 1: us about this, he started crying and he begged his
Speaker 1: dad not to hate him, like I don't know.
Speaker 5: We believe him, like we've got.
Speaker 1: We've got a good this is a good confession on
Speaker 1: our hands here. And they're like, Trey is dead because
Speaker 1: you claimed he was raping you when you were the
Speaker 1: one raping him. And she is shocked. She was like,
Speaker 1: you are making this up? Like where do you get
Speaker 1: this stuff? And Benson's like, the quicker you start telling
Speaker 1: the truth, the better it is for you and for Luke,
Speaker 1: and she leans in like, don't you dare presume to
Speaker 1: tell me what's best for my son? And Benson's like,
Speaker 1: just spitting straight facts here, baby, and she goes, well,
Speaker 1: I know that if I'm not under arrest, I'm free
Speaker 1: to go and I'll be calling my lawyer. And Benson's like,
Speaker 1: we'll be in touch. I'm sure we'll have a lot
Speaker 1: to talk about, and Finn calls this woman a stone
Speaker 1: cold liar, like after she leaves, and Benson's like a
Speaker 1: psychiatrist who's sexually abusing teen boys and emotionally damaging her
Speaker 1: own son. That's worse than lying, Like that's pathological.
Speaker 3: Like this is a.
Speaker 1: Woman that is something is up with her, and Benson's like,
Speaker 1: I want to track her phone. I want to vet
Speaker 1: Ethan's story. If she's smart, she'll cover her tracks. We
Speaker 1: need hard evidence, and we need proof that Luke didn't
Speaker 1: know about his mom and Trey. So now we're talking
Speaker 1: to Luke and he's got his mom's back. He's like,
Speaker 1: Ethan's a liar. That's not true. My mom said you
Speaker 1: were going to say this, so she obviously called him immediately.
Speaker 1: And then they said, yeah, and your mom and Trey
Speaker 1: they were also a thing, and she goes and he goes,
Speaker 1: she said, you were going to say that too. So
Speaker 1: this kid is, you know, a bit of a mama's boy,
Speaker 1: so which by design. I'm sure there's no way that like,
Speaker 1: that's just not true. My mom would never do that,
Speaker 1: he says. And then so then Robin steps out of
Speaker 1: the room and Benson and Luke's dad have been watching
Speaker 1: through the glass like through the fish bowl, right, and
Speaker 1: he says, Luke's a good kid, but like he's got
Speaker 1: tea on his ex wife that he'd love to spill.
Speaker 5: The dad.
Speaker 1: So he goes, she's complicated, and then they're like, can
Speaker 1: you elaborate, and he goes, she's a malignant narcissist. She's
Speaker 1: probably borderline. And they're like, okay, that's a little bit
Speaker 1: more than complicated. And he's like, she's also a psychiat
Speaker 1: he's also a psychiatrist. Sorry, So they're two psychiatrists married
Speaker 1: to each other, or they were.
Speaker 5: They're exes.
Speaker 1: So now he said, this lying manipulation of use of behavior,
Speaker 1: it's been going on for a while, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: since the day I met her, and she's the best
Speaker 1: woman and worst woman you've ever met. Wrapped into one,
Speaker 1: which sounds psycho. He's just like, she just tim will
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yes, Like, and I think
Speaker 1: there is I think everything else was a con Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: he goes She's charming, she's brilliant, like but gradually the
Speaker 1: sickness reveals itself, and like she believes she's special, that
Speaker 1: she deserves constant adoration and attention. She has no empathy,
Speaker 1: but is also extremely fragile and really has no true
Speaker 1: sense of self. And he's like, I couldn't take it anymore.
Speaker 1: And they're like, but you let your son just live
Speaker 1: in that house with her? And he's like, I fought
Speaker 1: like hell for custody of Luke, but the judge sided
Speaker 1: with her. She is charming and persuasive, like of course
Speaker 1: she's gonna get to a judge. You know that these
Speaker 1: things are hard to kind of like define, you know,
Speaker 1: in a court of law, Like if you're like, no,
Speaker 1: I have documentation of when she hit him, or I
Speaker 1: have a video of her calling him an asshole or whatever,
Speaker 1: like it's not the same as like she slowly and
Speaker 1: quietly manipulates somebody, it's a little harder to prove. So
Speaker 1: he's like, I just never thought she would destroy her
Speaker 1: own son. Please tell me you're not charging Luke with
Speaker 1: a crime, and they're like, no, so she's the criminal here.
Speaker 3: We need to talk to Barbara.
Speaker 1: So now they're in Barba's office, Benson, Rollins, and Greasy
Speaker 1: are trying to make a case for Luke being totally
Speaker 1: innocent and clueless, and they're like, Nicole is the one lying,
Speaker 1: not Luke. Rollins gets lab results, then pinged on her
Speaker 1: phone and she goes, here we go. We found fresh
Speaker 1: seamen on a towel upstairs at Nichole's that she specifically denied.
Speaker 1: That's Tray' semen. It's a match for Trey and she
Speaker 1: specifically denied him being up there twice. And so Barbara's pissed.
Speaker 1: He's like, arrest her, and Benson goes statutory rape and
Speaker 1: Barbara goes, oh, I'm thinking a lot more than that.
Speaker 1: So Ben and Benson bust into Nicole's office with their
Speaker 1: badges during one of her sessions.
Speaker 3: Of course, the client is like, what the fuck is
Speaker 3: going on here?
Speaker 1: They arrest her on charges of third degree rape and
Speaker 1: of a miner and murder. Might need to find a
Speaker 1: new psychiatrist, sir. So now the top of AC four
Speaker 1: outside there is a swarm of reporters and they're doing
Speaker 1: like a drone overhead shot of these reporters. So it's
Speaker 1: not like sometimes you can make ten reporters look like
Speaker 1: a lot of reporters if you do like tighter shots. No,
Speaker 1: there's like seventy five extras that are hired to be
Speaker 1: reporters for this scene. Like the featured extras budget was
Speaker 1: popping on this episode. Okay, and Barba's giving a little
Speaker 1: press conference and he kind of sounds like he's performing
Speaker 1: like a musical number the way he says it, like
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know. He's like, our only goal
Speaker 1: was to bring the person responsible for Trey Franklin's death
Speaker 1: to justice, and that person is Nicole Keller. It sounds
Speaker 1: like a Sondheim to me, and he just done a
Speaker 1: lot of Sondheim. So to cry rape while she was
Speaker 1: sexually assaulting a teen while her son was standing ten
Speaker 1: feet away with a rifle shows depraved indifference to Trey
Speaker 1: Franklin's life. And then the defense attorney for Nicole is
Speaker 1: drum Roll Buchanan, friend of the Pod, and he's doing
Speaker 1: a counter programming.
Speaker 5: You know, he's like defending his clients. She's a victim.
Speaker 1: She is devastated by her son's friend's death and to
Speaker 1: suggest she had anything to do with it is outrageous. Okay,
Speaker 1: So now we're in court, Benson's on the stand, Barba
Speaker 1: is presenting the cum towel. Benson is stating how Nicole
Speaker 1: has twice denied Trey being upstairs at her home. And
Speaker 1: then it's Buchanan's turn and he goes no questions for
Speaker 1: this witness. He doesn't want to question Benson. So then
Speaker 1: Barbara calls Luke Keller to the stand and he's whining.
Speaker 1: Even while he's testifying, he's whiny and he's like, I
Speaker 1: didn't know the man assaulting my mother was Trey. And
Speaker 1: Barba's like, well, did your mom see the rifle? And
Speaker 1: Buchanan objects that speculation and he rephrases it did your
Speaker 1: mom look down?
Speaker 3: And Luke goes yes.
Speaker 1: So Luke is like, maybe now seeing the forest for
Speaker 1: the like he's seeing the reality with his mom. So
Speaker 1: he describes how he pulled the trigger after his mom
Speaker 1: yelled rape, but he didn't mean to kill anyone. He
Speaker 1: was only trying to help his mom, like he's been
Speaker 1: sticking to the story the whole time that he just
Speaker 1: thought that the gunshot would scare him off. He just
Speaker 1: happened to obviously stick a kill shot. So now it's
Speaker 1: Buchanan's turn and he's doing his slick shit trying to
Speaker 1: trip this kid up on the stand. He's like and
Speaker 1: he's like, I thought my mom was being attacked, but
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Benson told me what they found upstairs, and basically
Speaker 1: I Buchanan is saying, well, you have no way of
Speaker 1: knowing if your mom saw the gun or what she
Speaker 1: was experiencing or seeing. And one last thing, didn't Barba
Speaker 1: the prosecutor give you a deal of no jail time
Speaker 1: for testifying against your mom, even though you're the one
Speaker 1: who killed Trey, right, And he says yes, And how
Speaker 1: are they not prepared for this? Like they know Buchanan's
Speaker 1: going to ask some shit like this, right, They're always
Speaker 1: going to ask if there's like a deal. And the
Speaker 1: judge is, by the way, judge Elana Barth and we've
Speaker 1: seen her in a lot of episodes. So there they
Speaker 1: let Sad Sad Luke step down, Benson whisks him away,
Speaker 1: and his mom like looks on and she's like pissed
Speaker 1: that Benson is like mothering her child a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, outside the courtroom, his dad's walking him out,
Speaker 1: his mom comes, The mom comes out and they hug
Speaker 1: and then she shoots a death stare at bensim and
Speaker 1: Barba's like, the poor kid doesn't know whether to love
Speaker 1: her or hate her, and Benson goes, it's hard to
Speaker 1: give up on your mother, no matter how sick she
Speaker 1: may be.
Speaker 3: And Benson knows. No one knows that, like Benson.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So now this crazy bitch Nicole is on the stand
Speaker 1: and Buchanan is questioning her and she's going over what
Speaker 1: happened that night and she's like, I yelled rape and
Speaker 1: then I heard a horrible loud gunshot and then it
Speaker 1: was over. And now it's Barbi Stern. You better watch out.
Speaker 1: And he's like, so you let this kid in at
Speaker 1: nine pm and she's like turbulent home life, and Barba says,
Speaker 1: you keep saying that, but his parents are happily married
Speaker 1: and he gets straight a's and she starts in on
Speaker 1: how grades are not indicative of emotional problems and all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and Barbara goes, Okay, we're not interested in
Speaker 1: your psychobabble for the moment, thank you so much for sharing,
Speaker 1: and it's amazing, it's so good. He is such a
Speaker 1: little like no, no, no, thank you, We're good. And
Speaker 1: then Barbara brings up the towel. How did this boy's
Speaker 1: jizz get on that towel, ma'am? And she has no clue.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's snuck up there and masturbated one night. Maybe yeah,
Speaker 1: like this boy's whole goal was to come up to
Speaker 1: your room, take a selfie with you sleeping jerk off
Speaker 1: in a towel, and then lee like, what are you
Speaker 1: talking about? So maybe you had an initial encounter upstairs
Speaker 1: and then brought him downstairs for more and bu cannon
Speaker 1: objects and the judge allows it, honestly. And Barba's like,
Speaker 1: you let him into your home late at night wearing
Speaker 1: lingerie and she goes it was a nightgown. And Barbara
Speaker 1: gets pissed and goes, we're not going to argue semantics.
Speaker 1: You are wearing this little number and shows a picture
Speaker 1: of this silky nightgown.
Speaker 5: I mean it is technically a nightgown, but it's like
Speaker 5: pretty sexy.
Speaker 3: I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You can wear whatever you want to bed she says, yes,
Speaker 1: but I was ready for bed or ready to sexually
Speaker 1: assault a fifteen year old boy. Barba says, you let
Speaker 1: him into your house wearing only a nightgown, then cried
Speaker 1: rape when you saw a gun in your son's hand.
Speaker 1: And Nicole's like, he raped me, and Barbara counters, no,
Speaker 1: you raped him. There's an objection, and then what Barbara
Speaker 1: withdraw withdraws that and he rests his case, and then
Speaker 1: Nicole turns to the judge and says, I want to
Speaker 1: testify again. I need to change my defense if you can.
Speaker 1: It is even baffled. He's like, and she goes, I've
Speaker 1: been lying and now I just want to tell the truth,
Speaker 1: ill truth.
Speaker 5: Judge Barth is like, Chambers, right now, okay, And.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like uncomfortable knowing what's happened going to
Speaker 2: happen next.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like so upset.
Speaker 3: It's so upsetting.
Speaker 1: She wants to tell the truth, Buchanan says, and Barba's like,
Speaker 1: you don't just get to suddenly tell the truth because
Speaker 1: the jury isn't buying your lies. And Buchanan says, I
Speaker 1: have the right to redirect testimony of his wit of
Speaker 1: the witness or whatever, and my client will offer a
Speaker 1: new defense. Her new testimony will contradict her prior testimony.
Speaker 1: She is willing to admit she perjured herself and Barth
Speaker 1: is like, okay, but what's the new defense. Now we're
Speaker 1: back in court, Buchanan is questioning Nicole yet again, saying
Speaker 1: we'll tell them what happened. She says, Trey Franklin and
Speaker 1: I were in the kitchen having sex. Luke walked in
Speaker 1: on us and shot his friend in the head. Did
Speaker 1: you make eye contact with him? She says no. It's
Speaker 1: always weird when they do this kind of shit too,
Speaker 1: because we saw it. We saw the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 1: like it's there, like you know what happened, Like sometimes
Speaker 1: there's just a body and we don't know what actually happened,
Speaker 1: but we saw it like it's on camera. We saw
Speaker 1: you make eye contact with him, and she says no,
Speaker 1: and Luke is like obviously crying.
Speaker 5: Benson is horrified. Her mouth is like on the ground.
Speaker 1: She's like, I cannot believe this bitch is doing her
Speaker 1: own son dirty like this, and Nicole says, I don't
Speaker 1: want my son to go to prison, so I just
Speaker 1: made up the rape thing to protect him. Benson cannot
Speaker 1: believe this shit. She's like comforting Luke. She's basically saying,
Speaker 1: Luke knew that Trey and I were involved in a
Speaker 1: sexual relationship. One time he caught us having sex and
Speaker 1: he was just in the doorway watching and masturbating. Like what,
Speaker 1: And they go, are you saying your son is romantically
Speaker 1: attracted to you? And she says, yes, it's not as
Speaker 1: unusual as you What a crazy, dumb, twisted, stupid bitch.
Speaker 3: But she thinks, I'm a psychiatrist. I know this exists.
Speaker 1: I know that genetic sexual attraction, even though we kind
Speaker 1: of know it's not real, Like, I know that this
Speaker 1: has happened that like Macbeth, Oedipist, whatever, there have been
Speaker 1: men attracted to their mothers before. So she's like, they'll
Speaker 1: buy this. I'm such a pro, I'm so charming. I've
Speaker 1: gotten everything I've wanted out of life. Why not now?
Speaker 1: So she's like, yes, it's not as usual as unusual
Speaker 1: as you might think, and Benson is like, let's go, honey,
Speaker 1: I'm getting you out of here, and like tries scooting
Speaker 1: Luke out of there, and as they're leaving, Nicole is
Speaker 1: yelling Luke, it's my fault. I should have taken better
Speaker 1: care of you. I take responsibility for this.
Speaker 2: And he's like horrified, sad Benson, So God has Benson.
Speaker 1: But she can't help do a little gaslight on his
Speaker 1: way out, like no, like you know, or like a
Speaker 1: little manipulation, like I know that you've been in love
Speaker 1: with me and I should have done something about it earlier.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, like crazy, so you can't arrest. The
Speaker 1: judge calls adjournment, but Barbara wants his shot now while
Speaker 1: the jury is still hot. But the judge is done,
Speaker 1: which I'm annoyed with, I know, and she's like, no, Barbara,
Speaker 1: we'll see you tomorrow at nine am. So now in
Speaker 1: Barbara's office, CARESI and Benson and Barbara are strategizing when
Speaker 1: Luke's dad arrives and goes well, Luke wants to plead
Speaker 1: guilty for murder and like to murder, and they're like
Speaker 1: the dad's like, but he has immunity, right, And now
Speaker 1: Luke believes that he deliberately shot Trey, which is because
Speaker 1: the mother has sort of like gaslit him into believing, like, oh,
Speaker 1: remember how you were so jealous of me and Trey's
Speaker 1: relationship and you knew about it, like none of that happened.
Speaker 1: But that's now Luke's doubting his own mind and his
Speaker 1: own thoughts. So Luke believes he deliberately shot Trey and
Speaker 1: that deep down he knew his mom was fucking his friend.
Speaker 1: In her deluded mind, Luke is responsible for this and
Speaker 1: she needs to take him down, and Benson's like, I
Speaker 1: gotta talk to Luke. So they meet outside. Benson's like,
Speaker 1: let me take you for a drive. So they get
Speaker 1: into her suv that she drives around town and she
Speaker 1: asks if you want to go get something, like you
Speaker 1: want to go get somebody to eat. He's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not really hungry and I don't want really whatt people
Speaker 1: staring at me, Like can we just talk in the
Speaker 1: car and she's like sure. She tells him, you can't
Speaker 1: plead guilty. You told me and Careesy a dozen times
Speaker 1: about how she pleaded for help, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I knew she liked Trey. She was always real
Speaker 1: talkative when he was around. And she's like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: did you ever see them physically together? And he says no,
Speaker 1: And he says, what my mother said about me watching
Speaker 1: them was a lie, and Benson's like, babe, I know that,
Speaker 1: but I did hear her say once he says that
Speaker 1: Trey was really handsome, so I knew. I just didn't
Speaker 1: know that I knew. And Benson explains statutory rape to
Speaker 1: this kid, and he's like, I was just trying to
Speaker 1: save her, and Benson's like, yeah, and you're really really brave,
Speaker 1: and she said, like I heard the deer hunting story
Speaker 1: from your mom. The mom had told a story earlier
Speaker 1: about how like one time he saw a deer and
Speaker 1: he couldn't even pull the trigger because he didn't want
Speaker 1: to kill the deer. And she's like, I know, like
Speaker 1: who you really are, Like you're not a person that
Speaker 1: hurts people, and it's not your job to sacrifice your
Speaker 1: life for hers, and so yeah, it's like this kid
Speaker 1: couldn't shoot a deer. You think he's going to shoot
Speaker 1: his own best friend? Like that's not happening. Back in court,
Speaker 1: the judge asks if Barbara is ready for cross but
Speaker 1: he recalls Luke and everyone is stunned, and he takes
Speaker 1: the stand and he asked, Luke, did you intentionally shoot
Speaker 1: Trey out of anger for him? Being in a sexual
Speaker 1: relationship with your mother. And he says, no, that's not true.
Speaker 1: I shot him because I thought he was raping her.
Speaker 1: And then he says Barba says, why did you think that?
Speaker 1: And he goes because she looked me in the eye
Speaker 1: and yelled help. He's raping me. And Luke is very focused.
Speaker 1: I think she was betting on her son going down
Speaker 1: for it. Like fully. So now the jury has a verdict,
Speaker 1: manipulating him for years. Yes, the jury has a verdict.
Speaker 1: They find the defendant guilty on second degree murder and
Speaker 1: third degree rape of a miner. She looks stunned, and
Speaker 1: they should bring her back to court for ethan for
Speaker 1: like third degree rape of a miner at times ten
Speaker 1: or however many times she did it. She looks stunned.
Speaker 1: She's like, I've never not gotten what I want in
Speaker 1: my entire life. What's happening. She rushes towards Luke and
Speaker 1: tells him she loves him, and she forgives him. I'm
Speaker 1: still your mother, and I'll always be your mother no
Speaker 1: matter what you've done. Psycho, Congratulations, lieutenant, you've convinced my
Speaker 1: son I'm the devil. And she goes, no, Nicole, you
Speaker 1: did that all yourself. She gets taken away. Barba asks
Speaker 1: if Benson is okay and tells her, you know, Luke
Speaker 1: is a strong kid. He'll be fine. I'm like, is
Speaker 1: he he's been pretty whiny. I think it's going to
Speaker 1: take a while. I think he'll be okay, but it's
Speaker 1: going to take a while.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, And it's like to go to a therapist.
Speaker 2: It's gonna like his mom was psychiatry, Like it's gonna
Speaker 2: be hard to trust other mental health professional trouble exactly
Speaker 2: because she was so bad.
Speaker 5: But the dad seems good. Yeah, maybe then.
Speaker 1: We'll get rid of the guns until your son's older
Speaker 1: and is feeling a little bit more confident in life,
Speaker 1: and then you can see if he's interested in hunting anyway.
Speaker 1: She goes, I think, Barbara Benson goes, you really believe
Speaker 1: that about him being fine? And then Barba asked, want
Speaker 1: me to buy you a drink? And she turns him down.
Speaker 1: She never turns Barbara down for a drink. I feel like,
Speaker 1: she goes, I gotta go home, I gotta go see Noah,
Speaker 1: and she like, through tears, is like, I just want
Speaker 1: to be with my boy. She shook she's shaken, she's gagged.
Speaker 1: She stares at the courtroom and that's dick wolf, I think,
Speaker 1: and now like that she's she's been a mother since
Speaker 1: like season sixteen, maybe this is season eighteen. I just
Speaker 1: think she like can't believe that a mom would do
Speaker 1: something so shitty to her, and this this wlain it
Speaker 1: to this kid, you know, like, how do you explain that?
Speaker 1: Like she was willing everyone to think that you like
Speaker 1: jerked off and while your best friend and mom fucked
Speaker 1: like you dumb bitch. And this episode, I feel like
Speaker 1: combines a bunch of past episodes, Like it combines Mother
Speaker 1: where the psychiatrist is having sex with patients.
Speaker 5: Right, was that not John Margaro? Who's the guy?
Speaker 1: John Abraham's John Abraham and we talked to that's right, Mother.
Speaker 1: It combines Mother, It combines Valentine's Day, I mean a
Speaker 1: little bit of pop with like the mom and the
Speaker 1: son who did it?
Speaker 3: We're both like, we're both.
Speaker 1: And so I just covered a case with the fake rape,
Speaker 1: like and then remember remember the com down the butthole?
Speaker 5: Oh I do?
Speaker 3: How could I forgot? Yeah?
Speaker 5: What episode was that for? We just did it?
Speaker 1: I don't remember, but it was a case where she yelled,
Speaker 1: but because it's Texast, she's in jail and the shooter
Speaker 1: is not. Oh yes, yeah, which one was that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that was given for this case as well.
Speaker 2: But you know, I just covered it, deleted it from
Speaker 2: my mind memory spiritics.
Speaker 1: I know the details and where. But yeah, well i'll
Speaker 1: go into what this is. Did you have more to
Speaker 1: say about this bad mother? How much time do you
Speaker 1: think she got for murder? And like she'll get she'll
Speaker 1: probably get parole, and like we talked about, like we've
Speaker 1: talked about before, she'll probably appeal until she fucking gets out.
Speaker 1: But I don't think she's appealing rich. Maybe a couple appeals, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that wouldn't really rich for all these appeals.
Speaker 2: It was a big house that they were living in
Speaker 2: for New York City. But maybe she comes from money,
Speaker 2: because I don't know psychiatrists that could afford a town
Speaker 2: home like that.
Speaker 1: Well, psychiatrists make a lot for New York. Maybe she's rent.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, right,
Speaker 1: And I think she's getting twenty years. I think she's
Speaker 1: getting twenty years at least. Yeah, yeah, and she's forty five,
Speaker 1: she'll be sixty five, maybe the letter out on bail
Speaker 1: being like, well she's not gonna and some if any
Speaker 1: teenagers at sixty five, I don't know. Yeah, well you'd
Speaker 1: be surprised. Okay, So we'll get started. This is the
Speaker 1: case of two cases, two cases today. So the first
Speaker 1: one is unfortunately, the murder of a Keem Davis. And
Speaker 1: this was mainighteen twenty sixteen in the Bronx. Yeah, seventeen
Speaker 1: years old. He was shot and killed late in the
Speaker 1: afternoon and he was found in the Pelham Parkway housing development.
Speaker 1: Neighbors said to New York For NBC that they saw
Speaker 1: Davis sitting outside his building just before he died, joking
Speaker 1: around with friends, like nice, well known kid. There were
Speaker 1: videos posted online on Facebook Live before the shooting as well,
Speaker 1: and the videos had the victim and other people in
Speaker 1: the room. There was the and like the last video
Speaker 1: was taken at least a half hour before the shooting,
Speaker 1: and it was you know, smoking weed, listening to music,
Speaker 1: like just like friends stuff. Rachel Williams, a neighbor NBC
Speaker 1: New York For.
Speaker 2: She said he was like a very good kid, not
Speaker 2: a troublemaker. He didn't deserve that, but troublemakers also don't
Speaker 2: deserve to get shot. And he was just a month
Speaker 2: out from graduating high school. He would have been eighteen
Speaker 2: just one week later. More quotes from the neighborhood. Humble, contagious,
Speaker 2: sense of humor, very polite, sweet, hold the door for you.
Speaker 2: If he saw you with the package, he would assist
Speaker 2: you with it. And according to police and CBS New York,
Speaker 2: he was found with a gunshot wound to the torso
Speaker 2: he stumbled into the hallway, collapsed in front of his
Speaker 2: brother's girlfriend, Star White, and she's quoted in the Daily News.
Speaker 2: All of his blood was just coming out of his mouth. Oh,
Speaker 2: he just came out here and dropped and was pronounced
Speaker 2: that at Jacobi Hospital.
Speaker 5: Now May twentieth.
Speaker 2: The next day, his friend is charged in the shooting
Speaker 2: death with manslaughter and criminal possession of a firearm. That's
Speaker 2: Stefan Lewis, nineteen years old and he's, you know, just
Speaker 2: playing with a gun.
Speaker 5: He thought it was empty.
Speaker 1: And the grandma said that he was crying a lot
Speaker 1: when he was announced dead and that he's like suffering
Speaker 1: because of this.
Speaker 5: And this is the NBC New York.
Speaker 2: For and yeah, he and she'd Obviously the grandma doesn't
Speaker 2: want him being charged as an adult, but he did
Speaker 2: get charges as in adults. And then the father of
Speaker 2: the shooter like apologized to the Davis family but said
Speaker 2: it was an accident. And that's and then the Davis
Speaker 2: family does not believe it was an accident. A Chem's
Speaker 2: teen sisters quoted an NBC New York for we don't
Speaker 2: think it was playing or no accident because we've seen
Speaker 2: him for ourselves. So that's what I have to say
Speaker 2: about that the gun had not been found though, like
Speaker 2: he was charged, they couldn't find the gun. The family
Speaker 2: rightfully says, if it was an accident, why is the
Speaker 2: gun not found, Like the gun should just be there
Speaker 2: as evidence, like if it was all about mistake, like
Speaker 2: show us the gun, so that like the family's like
Speaker 2: they must be hiding something. And then the detectives, to
Speaker 2: Spectrum News one New York reported that the gun was
Speaker 2: not legally registered but did not belong to anyone in
Speaker 2: the Davis household. Lewis, however, told the police in a
Speaker 2: criminal complaint that the gun belonged to a Keem's brother.
Speaker 2: We don't know because this is okay, whatever I have
Speaker 2: to keep going, so and there was shady language. So
Speaker 2: it's like sources said and eyewitnessed told detectives and it's
Speaker 2: like okay, like what yeah, but that he was hanging
Speaker 2: with a group of you know friends in his bedroom.
Speaker 2: And also the Daily News like called the shooter a
Speaker 2: beef eteen like, oh my god, strange. It's strange, but yeah,
Speaker 2: like it says David and Lewis were playfully wrestling on
Speaker 2: the bed when Louis picked up a gun on the
Speaker 2: dresser around five pm and shot his friend once. I
Speaker 2: just don't even know how that's a joke, Like I
Speaker 2: just don't understand. Lewis said to The Daily News that
Speaker 2: after the gun went off and shot a Keen in
Speaker 2: the chest, he threw it on the bed and ran
Speaker 2: outside and called nine one one. So the victim's mom
Speaker 2: told the Daily News, and she's a male carrier. I
Speaker 2: could understand if he got shot out in the street,
Speaker 2: but they shot him right here in his bed, and
Speaker 2: it is his friend. And this is fucked up because
Speaker 2: like tragedy. She's a grieving mother. But Jocelyn Carr to
Speaker 2: the Daily News said she did everything she could to
Speaker 2: keep This is like unrelated to the case. But she
Speaker 2: says like she did everything she could to keep her
Speaker 2: son protected from the violence of the streets, even making
Speaker 2: him pledge to join the army. And it's like the
Speaker 2: army's quite violent. I would say, yeah, but they pay
Speaker 2: for college.
Speaker 5: But listen.
Speaker 2: So I tried to find anything about a conviction, a trial,
Speaker 2: a prison set.
Speaker 5: I could not days.
Speaker 1: I searched, like I was in the bronx DA's office
Speaker 1: website searching. I was just hold an accident. I don't
Speaker 1: think it went to court. I was looking up convictions.
Speaker 1: I was like in weird papers, lock up.
Speaker 2: There would be a record, there would be a record,
Speaker 2: and I could not find it. So if it exists
Speaker 2: and you you work in the city and you can
Speaker 2: get your hands on more information, but like I could not.
Speaker 1: So it either got dismissed or did he even get
Speaker 1: Did he get arrested? He did, Yeah, he was charged,
Speaker 1: he got arrested. Yeah, he was charged with manslaughter and.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I bet it got thrown out and.
Speaker 1: Not half and the gun like he had the gut
Speaker 1: this gun and criminal possession of a firearm. So sad, okay,
Speaker 1: So that's that, And I don't know no civil case.
Speaker 1: There's nothing. I couldn't find anything. Yeah, and it's not
Speaker 1: like that unique of names, so it's tough.
Speaker 2: So the next case is Pamela Rogers Turner found her. Okay,
Speaker 2: so this all happened in two thousand and five, and
Speaker 2: the articles are crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean, we still do it, but it's like thirteen
Speaker 1: year old boy sex and it's like teacher, it's not
Speaker 1: accused of having sex.
Speaker 2: It's like the language is so fucked. The New York
Speaker 2: Post in an article was like a torrid affair between
Speaker 2: a stunning teacher and thirteen year old student. Like they
Speaker 2: articles called her a temptress, and it's like, no, she's
Speaker 2: a pedophile.
Speaker 3: And so she was its pe teacher.
Speaker 2: She was twenty seven at the time of the crime,
Speaker 2: and you know, a pedophile and this happened sixty five
Speaker 2: miles southeast of Nashville. The sheriff again described her as
Speaker 2: absolutely gorgeous, so you can imagine, you know, how the
Speaker 2: pedophile case went. You know, she's blonde, former college homecoming queen,
Speaker 2: and I didn't know call homecoming thing is a thing,
Speaker 2: basketball player, bikini clad promoter for professional wrestling matches, according
Speaker 2: to CBS News, and I did five. So now I
Speaker 2: did find her through the sex defender registry.
Speaker 3: Ye, I see her on there.
Speaker 5: So the offence has happened.
Speaker 1: So February seventh, two thousand and five, sexual battery of
Speaker 1: an authority by an authority figure, sexual battery by an
Speaker 1: authority figure. Then July seventh, two thousand and six, solicitation
Speaker 1: to commit sexual exploitation of a minor. She's still actively
Speaker 1: on the registry. And then there's a full criminal history
Speaker 1: as well. So, like I said, so February seventh, oh five,
Speaker 1: it's stat rape with a thirteen year old convicted, and
Speaker 1: then the same day with sexual battery by an authority convicted.
Speaker 1: But she had like thirteen and fifteen charges of each
Speaker 1: she was facing one hundred years. I think every time
Speaker 1: you have you sexually assault one of these kids, you
Speaker 1: get to charge. Yeah, right, yeah, so it's thirteen and
Speaker 1: fifteen and so then April, so then I found this
Speaker 1: information first. Maybe I should have organized it better or whatever.
Speaker 2: So then her last registration report date was March sixth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, and last date information upload it was
Speaker 2: May eighth, twenty twenty six, so like it is all
Speaker 2: being old, that's like.
Speaker 3: Four days ago. Oh my god, it's like really cool.
Speaker 2: So she had an ongoing sexual relationship with a thirteen
Speaker 2: year old male student, and she was employed by Warren County.
Speaker 2: It lasted three months and one occurrence was in the
Speaker 2: school gym, the CBS News from Southern Standard said, And
Speaker 2: it started with online chats and again the New York
Speaker 2: Post called it innocent, and it's like, no, a teacher
Speaker 2: should not be.
Speaker 5: There is no innocent in this.
Speaker 2: His childhood friend, Justin Grissom, said he was with his
Speaker 2: friend when the chat started, and Turner wrote, I think
Speaker 2: you're cute, and this is according to the teen and
Speaker 2: New York Post, Like, I don't know if you want.
Speaker 5: To trust it or not.
Speaker 2: She took his virginity obviously he's like thirteen, but also
Speaker 2: like there is probably more to this conversation, if it's
Speaker 2: choice or not. But his best friend Justin was like,
Speaker 2: she threw herself at at his pal and she pursued
Speaker 2: him and was way more into him than he was
Speaker 2: into her. But Justin's a bad friend, Like why are
Speaker 2: you saying everything? And then he told the Post his
Speaker 2: friend loved every minute of it and called his friend
Speaker 2: a little pimp.
Speaker 5: And then if this was gender reversed.
Speaker 1: If this was like a man, a twenty seven year
Speaker 1: old man going after a thirteen year old girl, people
Speaker 1: would be like with pitchforks outside of his house, Beauty
Speaker 1: and the Beast, Yes.
Speaker 2: And then what bothers me is like whenever there is
Speaker 2: a rape discussion, like it's always like what about the opposite?
Speaker 5: And it's like I am outraged.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you guys are the ones that are excited
Speaker 2: by this, you know what I mean? And the sentences
Speaker 2: and the way the sheriff is talking about her, it's like,
Speaker 2: you guys are perpetuating it, like okay.
Speaker 5: So he also.
Speaker 1: Also the way that they'll be like she's dropped it gorgeous,
Speaker 1: like why did she have to? It's like I would
Speaker 1: understand an ugly woman hooking up with a thirteen year
Speaker 1: old What other choice does she we have but a
Speaker 1: hot one?
Speaker 3: Like come on with.
Speaker 5: This diattal files.
Speaker 2: So the friend, the quote unquote friend claims that he
Speaker 2: dumped his girlfriend who was his age, to focus more
Speaker 2: on the teacher. She was calling him fifty five to
Speaker 2: six times a night, and the posts again gorgeous blonde
Speaker 2: bombshell elicted trists, and then there was a lot of intercourse,
Speaker 2: a lot of oral dozens of times. So that's why
Speaker 2: I shared all these things. And then the actions, like
Speaker 2: I said, took some at the school and then some
Speaker 2: at Turner's home she rented with her husband, but also
Speaker 2: at the teen's house.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Also, all this coverage is from the two thousands. It's like,
Speaker 1: this is not from like the seventies, where you're like,
Speaker 1: it was a different time we had sex with our teachers.
Speaker 5: Like it's from like twenty years.
Speaker 2: Ago, and like, and the da Dale porter said to
Speaker 2: NBC News that like Turner living at that for a
Speaker 2: brief period of time when she was moving from residence
Speaker 2: to residence, and the mother of the teen is quoted
Speaker 2: by the news too being like, oh, she was a
Speaker 2: family friend, so they moved in this family friend teacher
Speaker 2: who was raping their son.
Speaker 1: But like this was just good old pals. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you know, strange, strange, strange.
Speaker 2: So she tried to plead no contest in August oh five,
Speaker 2: but she entered a guilty plea to four counts and
Speaker 2: received an eight year split confinement sentence, of which she
Speaker 2: was to serve six months in the Warren County Jail
Speaker 2: and then the rest would be on probation, so like
Speaker 2: she only had to serve six months and then seven
Speaker 2: and a half years, just like on probation on this
Speaker 2: like split confinement.
Speaker 1: I don't really know what that means. Nuts, That is
Speaker 1: a wild sentence.
Speaker 2: And if she didn't take the plea deal, she was
Speaker 2: facing charges punishable by one hundred years, which she probably
Speaker 2: should have gotten. She obviously surrendered her teaching certificate. She
Speaker 2: agreed to be on the registry as a child sex offender.
Speaker 2: The sentence also promotes her from profiting off the case
Speaker 2: and does not allow interviews. Also, everyone agreed that the
Speaker 2: penalty should be stiffer, but the d A. Dale Potter
Speaker 2: said that the victim's family their interest was if we
Speaker 2: could settle this without going to trial, that's what they preferred,
Speaker 2: and we feel like this is an acceptable settlement. So
Speaker 2: like maybe the sun just kept being like I loved it,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know why. The parents would be like
Speaker 2: six months is fine, and then she could be on probation.
Speaker 5: Strange.
Speaker 2: They just didn't want to do a trial though, So
Speaker 2: she can't have contact with the boy or his family.
Speaker 2: So then and then her husband, Chris Turner, filed for
Speaker 2: divorce the same time she was indicted.
Speaker 5: So that's pretty cool. No escape at Denmore there.
Speaker 1: So now February two thousand and six, after serving the
Speaker 1: six months, she was really released, placed on this probation
Speaker 1: for the balance of the sentence. But she violated parole obviously,
Speaker 1: she obviously violated parole. Oh yeah, she sent tex videos
Speaker 1: sexual explicit pictures to the victim who was still a minor.
Speaker 1: So she got two additional years to be served consecutive
Speaker 1: to her og sentence and so and then as fast
Speaker 1: as two thousand and eight, she was asking a parole
Speaker 1: agient like for parol again, and they're like, the next
Speaker 1: one will be twenty fourteen.
Speaker 5: They're like, you're gonna do ten years.
Speaker 1: You prove in your pedophile you are blonde and hot,
Speaker 1: so we let you off easy. But you're six so
Speaker 1: now you're back in here. So but she didn't get away,
Speaker 1: so she got out after six months and then I
Speaker 1: mean that's exactly what Mary Kayla de Renaud did.
Speaker 3: They were like, you can't see him, and then she did,
Speaker 3: and then she went back to jail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then that was like April eleventh, two thousand
Speaker 2: and six. It was violation of community corrections, convicted, and
Speaker 2: then four twenty four, two thousand and six, violation of
Speaker 2: community corrections. And then June third, twenty fifteen, she got
Speaker 2: in trouble. Take contraband into penal facility, penal, penal whatever,
Speaker 2: penal code. Yeah, what that's like, sounds gross, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? So take contrabandant to the penal facility.
Speaker 1: Guilty if it makes you feel better. If it was
Speaker 1: about a penis, it would be penile not penal. No,
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know why I'm acting so immature,
Speaker 1: So guilty plea has charged her and then like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's on the registry.
Speaker 5: So that's that.
Speaker 1: So she's out now because obviously this is from a
Speaker 1: while ago.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's on the edge. Wow, crazy, I mean, at
Speaker 5: least she served the time.
Speaker 1: The study on what makes women do this kind of thing?
Speaker 5: Is it like you just like the same pedophile stuff.
Speaker 1: No, I think I don't know. When it's like these
Speaker 1: teens though, it's like I think that they're seeing these
Speaker 1: boys as like young men, you know or whatever, and
Speaker 1: I think they just want someone they can like control,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, like they you know, it's like they
Speaker 1: could be having relationships with people their own age, but
Speaker 1: they're maybe they're like, I don't know, it's great, it's
Speaker 1: so anyway I mean I'm talking about is like specifically
Speaker 1: also with like this woman or Mary Kayla Tourneau, where
Speaker 1: they never did it with another person. It's not like
Speaker 1: they're a pedophile that's compulsive, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: They just this one kid they just really had it
Speaker 1: bad for. They're still pedophiles, but they're not like committing Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, I'm yeah, we taught there was this we
Speaker 1: covered like a person saying that I remember where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: even when the women do it, it's usually like one
Speaker 1: long lasting relationship.
Speaker 5: It's not like it's not.
Speaker 1: Like people collecting child sex abuse images and this is
Speaker 1: like my whole like you know, sexual like interest. But damn,
Speaker 1: thank you for telling us these stories. And we've got
Speaker 1: an interview coming up, so don't go anywhere, everybody. Today's
Speaker 1: guest is an actor who is best known for her
Speaker 1: roles on shows like twenty four, Flight of the Concords, Goliath,
Speaker 1: and being the very first face on the show Sex
Speaker 1: of the City. But you know her best as devious
Speaker 1: pedophile and mother doctor Nicole Keller please everybody enjoy our
Speaker 1: convo with the wonderful Sarah Winter.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm so excited to do this. I
Speaker 3: don't remember anything perfects. We remember so much about this
Speaker 3: that's amazing. Oh my god, you're gonna hear it.
Speaker 5: Oh no, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Because I just was obviously like stalking you a little
Speaker 1: bit on your social media and saw that you did
Speaker 1: the Sex and the City the Charlotte podcast. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: from Davis, And I was like, oh, she's a good
Speaker 1: podcast guest, like she know, she gets it, she knows
Speaker 1: the podcasts.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I did that because I was her first
Speaker 3: guest on her poka, because I was the first person
Speaker 3: in Sex and the City, like the very first person.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, that's you.
Speaker 3: Yes, and the r Gallery and it's raining, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: And so a cousin of mine about I don't know
Speaker 3: ten years ago, said, Sarah, did you know I grew
Speaker 3: up in Australia? Clearly because now I'm doing She said,
Speaker 3: you were the first person to have sex on Sex
Speaker 3: in the City, and so that no matter what I do,
Speaker 3: I'm going to have that, Like if I never work again,
Speaker 3: I'm going to have that.
Speaker 1: And then I did this episode of Yeah, and we're
Speaker 1: both Cities fans, but Lisa is like a massive, massive sex.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you should be on her podcast. I
Speaker 3: mean I would die, I actually, and she should do yours.
Speaker 5: Let's well, she's my Miranda Paint.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's Miranda. Oh my god, what a
Speaker 3: gorgeous did.
Speaker 4: You do that?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I got just blacked out one night and won an
Speaker 2: online auction, and so that's.
Speaker 3: The best auction.
Speaker 1: I come into our lives in a myriad ways, you know,
Speaker 1: like how did this part come about?
Speaker 5: They sent you the scrap.
Speaker 3: It was an offer, which was so kind of I mean,
Speaker 3: I've done you know, plenty of like serious regular television
Speaker 3: and films, but I was i'd had my kids. I
Speaker 3: really pulled back a lot. They were a lot younger
Speaker 3: because this was twenty and seventeen. Think we shut it in.
Speaker 3: I wrote this down, we filmed it in sixteen, it
Speaker 3: came out in seventeen, and I yeah, it was an offer,
Speaker 3: which usually at this point means someone dropped out. They
Speaker 3: were just really looking for me and wanting me. And
Speaker 3: I'd never done I'd never done a law in order, period,
Speaker 3: and it's such a rite of passage for you know,
Speaker 3: as you know a lot of Broadway actors and New
Speaker 3: York actors, and I felt weirdly left out, like tradition.
Speaker 3: And so when it came up and it was an offer,
Speaker 3: I was like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Done, done? I want to I want to do it
Speaker 3: just so I can say I've done it. And then
Speaker 3: I learned that it was the four hundredth episode of
Speaker 3: the entire series. Marishka not only stars in it and produces,
Speaker 3: she was going to direct. So it had all these
Speaker 3: incredible elements. And then the character I mean, we'll talk
Speaker 3: about the character that was that was yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: what was I going to say? No? No? It was
Speaker 3: like a gift, right, And I was nervous because it's
Speaker 3: such a you know, iconic show, and at that point
Speaker 3: it had been on for I wrote this down eighteen
Speaker 3: years already, and that was almost ten years ago. I
Speaker 3: don't even know what episode they're.
Speaker 5: Up there on season twenty seven and now, so.
Speaker 1: I don't even know the seas ago or that was
Speaker 1: ten nine seasons ago, nine seasons ago, like they're going
Speaker 1: to start season twenty eight in the fall.
Speaker 3: It's just incredible, Ye to have that it's a thing
Speaker 3: and that it's it's been such a big part of
Speaker 3: so many lives for so long. And Mariushka, I mean,
Speaker 3: just wow, what a powerhouse. And I stayed friends with her.
Speaker 3: We actually have a very good friend in common, and
Speaker 3: I saw her last year at the lunch we had
Speaker 3: for our friend. And you know, when you know someone
Speaker 3: a bit personally, but you've worked with them a long
Speaker 3: time ago, and you never expect, especially someone to remember
Speaker 3: you or you know, she's done just how many like
Speaker 3: a thousand now, I mean, what how many episodes? It's
Speaker 3: just and so many actors, so many actors have repeated characters, so.
Speaker 1: Uh, and you're like, this part is like really Like
Speaker 1: when I was rewatching it, I was like, you're in
Speaker 1: like almost every single scene. Like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: big guest roles where they don't come on until they
Speaker 1: become like the suspect halfway through, you know, and then
Speaker 1: they get a good second half of the episode. But
Speaker 1: you're like from the opening, the call open through the end,
Speaker 1: you're all over it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was intense and it was hard. You know.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I've been a guest on a lot of New
Speaker 3: York shows and I've done. I've been a series regular shows,
Speaker 3: I've been in films. It's a very unique thing to
Speaker 3: step onto someone else's set and as a guest, and
Speaker 3: a lot of shows you expect it's a well oiled machine,
Speaker 3: especially like procedural type dramas, And you know, I had
Speaker 3: that sort of in the back of my head, like oh,
Speaker 3: it's been on forever, and not that you would ever
Speaker 3: phone it in, but just that thing of like there's
Speaker 3: a formula and it's been around forever, and there's going
Speaker 3: to be a certain dance that they all know the
Speaker 3: choreography too, and you step in and you just kind
Speaker 3: of do your job. What I didn't expect was Marishka's
Speaker 3: intense passion and heart and how seriously she took it,
Speaker 3: Like really, I was quite blown away with that. Oh
Speaker 3: you know what I was going to say. I ran
Speaker 3: into her at lunch. Oh yeah, last year and I
Speaker 3: was like, do you remember that I did that episode?
Speaker 3: Like and it was And she looked at me and
Speaker 3: she was like, Sarah, you saved me. What do you
Speaker 3: mean do I remember? And I couldn't. I was stunned,
Speaker 3: And I don't know if it was the four hundredth episode.
Speaker 3: It was well, no, no, I don't know if that's
Speaker 3: what she was remembering, you know that it was the
Speaker 3: significant and also Dick Wolf came and Dick Wolf they
Speaker 3: had like a cake one day, and he's revered. I
Speaker 3: mean it's like there's Gandhi and there's Nelson Mandela and
Speaker 3: then there's Dick Wolf of the you know, and they
Speaker 3: were all sort of like he was coming into town,
Speaker 3: like getting off his I think he lives on some
Speaker 3: island off a Malibu or something. That's how they were,
Speaker 3: you know, like God was going to show up and
Speaker 3: I don't. And it got a lot of For whatever reason,
Speaker 3: I was thrilled and that she remembered me and she
Speaker 3: remembered details about it.
Speaker 1: And when she said, like you saved me, was she
Speaker 1: like because she had maybe just started directing episodes or
Speaker 1: something to.
Speaker 3: Remember I think I was just on cloud nine as
Speaker 3: a human and an actor that that she had such
Speaker 3: a recall, Uh, you know for this show that has
Speaker 3: been going on for so long and that has that
Speaker 3: thing where there's the beginning and there's the victim and
Speaker 3: then you find out what happens, and maybe you know,
Speaker 3: for a woman to be the to be the the perpetrator.
Speaker 3: That the what's the word I'm looking for? The you know,
Speaker 3: when you go after it became the predator starting out
Speaker 3: as the victim. Uh that was maybe what she remembered,
Speaker 3: or maybe I was just fucking fantastic. I was fan
Speaker 3: fucking I was so fucking good. I think I lost
Speaker 3: play dates. I lost playdates, Oh my god. Only not
Speaker 3: only did it was I a predator of children. I
Speaker 3: threw my own son under the bus. And you know,
Speaker 3: when this, when this came out, I had mom friends,
Speaker 3: one in particular, who was like, how could you have
Speaker 3: played that? Stop? How could you have played that part?
Speaker 3: And I was kind of like did one of those like, well,
Speaker 3: what I should have said is like I was fucking acting. Yeah, job,
Speaker 3: it was. It was like I was playing. I also
Speaker 3: played assassins and drug adds.
Speaker 1: Right, and somebody who does something so bad to their
Speaker 1: mother and to or to their own child and to
Speaker 1: other children.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it hits very different from it. Look,
Speaker 3: we all, you know, are dealing with life and you
Speaker 3: know where where where things go.
Speaker 1: Yes, but actors play Nazis and dictators and yes, psychopaths
Speaker 1: every day, Like you have to do that also.
Speaker 3: Like leaders and yeah, princesses and believe it, I'm not.
Speaker 3: I'm not those things either. But it was interesting. And
Speaker 3: the other thing it was, wow, quite something was the
Speaker 3: last day of filming, we did the can we say rape?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay? And and when someone dies, are they undead
Speaker 3: or were they.
Speaker 5: This is just this isn't TikTok. You could just say whatever.
Speaker 3: You want, okay, because I don't want to be canceled
Speaker 3: last day. Uh So we filmed that on the last
Speaker 3: day of my uh of the of the episode was
Speaker 3: the beginning the rap. We're in the Brownstone and I
Speaker 3: showed up to work and this happened to be it's
Speaker 3: very early where trailers are on the street because it
Speaker 3: was the location. We were out of the studio at
Speaker 3: that point. And the night before the guy in the
Speaker 3: White House right now, oh god, it was the daft
Speaker 3: of the election, and you can imagine showing up to
Speaker 3: that set a show that is about sexual assault, sexual
Speaker 3: assault victims survivors. Rishka had started her Joyful how Heart
Speaker 3: Foundation years before then, twenty sixteen, and it was a
Speaker 3: dark dark day for New York for I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: I remember, and we were all in shock. You know,
Speaker 3: it was just sort of like what I know, we're
Speaker 3: going to wake up from this. It was a joke, like, no,
Speaker 3: she's one. I remember going into the makeup trailer, Kelly
Speaker 3: Giddish was crying with the hair and makeup department and
Speaker 3: Marishka as the star of the show, as the executive
Speaker 3: producer and the director had to rally us to get
Speaker 3: through the day. And I don't know how she did
Speaker 3: it because it was heavy, heavy stuff, and she did
Speaker 3: and it took a lot out of her. I'm sure
Speaker 3: you know the uh pussy grabber in chief that was
Speaker 3: now that Yeah, and it's again, uh and here we
Speaker 3: are about to shoot someone being raped. She was ending
Speaker 3: the rape Kid backlog going to Washington. Uh.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: It was a lot, uh and maybe that's why it
Speaker 3: was memorable for her. It certainly see it in my
Speaker 3: brain as a as a watershed moment. I don't know
Speaker 3: if that's uh the word, but yeah, it was. It was.
Speaker 3: Uh that was heavy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely like uh, I mean, I remember I
Speaker 1: was in an acting class in LA when everybody was crying,
Speaker 1: Like everyone was like, it's a.
Speaker 3: Where you can remember kind of where you were moment.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like, I don't know how you get everybody
Speaker 1: back on track to like do their best work.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure if anyone can do it.
Speaker 1: It's Marishka wondering when you're playing her, like does she
Speaker 1: believe it what she's saying?
Speaker 5: Well, that's she lying, Like.
Speaker 3: What is That's a good question. So I it was hard.
Speaker 3: And another moment I had on set was when we
Speaker 3: got to the courtroom stuff, when I'd been arrested and
Speaker 3: the case was happening and my son was in the
Speaker 3: you know what are they called the you know, the chairs,
Speaker 3: the pews where people sitting court, the galley, you know,
Speaker 3: thank you, the galley. Uh is in the I want
Speaker 3: to say audience, like it's a theater. And it was
Speaker 3: because I'm an actor and uh. Delaney Williams played Buchan.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we've had a pot.
Speaker 3: I became we became friends from this and we follow
Speaker 3: each other on social He was like my work crush.
Speaker 5: I just loved we were his first podcast.
Speaker 3: Oh really, he's funny, he's awesome. I just adore him.
Speaker 3: And Jenniston was the judge and we sort of, you know,
Speaker 3: hit it off, and we follow each other now and
Speaker 3: I remember, yeah, I'm sitting there trying to get into
Speaker 3: a character. And I was kind of mid midway through
Speaker 3: the or a little earlier, and I knew I had
Speaker 3: a lot to get through, right because it's I'm on
Speaker 3: the stand, I get cross examined and side examined and
Speaker 3: you know all the rest of it. And Marisha came
Speaker 3: over and she said, thanks for learning your lines. You know,
Speaker 3: great keV. Good weekend. And I said, yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 3: was great. I said, you know, it's just it's so weird,
Speaker 3: you know, playing this character. She's just she's so awful,
Speaker 3: and you know, she's just like, how could someone do that?
Speaker 3: And she looked at me, dead in the eyes, and
Speaker 3: I don't know where my CA memories because I kind
Speaker 3: of isn't that green light? She said, Sarah, you cannot
Speaker 3: judge your character. If you judge your character, you're dead.
Speaker 3: You're dead. And I'll never forget she did that. She's like,
Speaker 3: you're dead, You're dead. And I was like, I was
Speaker 3: scared of her. I was actually really scared of the
Speaker 3: way she said it. And I realized that if I
Speaker 3: do judge my character, she said, you think you think
Speaker 3: everything you're doing is right, You think you are helping
Speaker 3: these people. You believe you are that diabolical and I
Speaker 3: realize I have to actually do a really good job
Speaker 3: now and it's going to hurt. And it hurt, like
Speaker 3: when she said that, it like, and the rest of
Speaker 3: the day hurt. And as an actor, you want to
Speaker 3: feel uncomfortable because that's where you know you do a
Speaker 3: good job. And I was really really uncomfortable and it
Speaker 3: was really hard and I have a really hard time
Speaker 3: on that day. But she required a performance that she
Speaker 3: had that she deserved as the actress, producer, director, and
Speaker 3: she had earned that from all her actors, and it
Speaker 3: was very for me as an actor to have that
Speaker 3: like like that. You just I just I never forgot it.
Speaker 3: And I've worked with great directors and but that was
Speaker 3: something I'll never forget that If I judge my character dead,
Speaker 3: you're dead.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You also had a really cool back and forth with Marishka,
Speaker 2: and you have this line read where you're like, don't
Speaker 2: you presume what's good?
Speaker 5: Like you guys had such.
Speaker 3: A fun my son.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is some fun scenes.
Speaker 3: The spot with her is an actor's dream and and
Speaker 3: it's scary, you know, it's I'm not done scary things uh, I,
Speaker 3: you know, worked with a lot of scary people, frankly
Speaker 3: on an off camera, and it's you really feel I
Speaker 3: remember being exhausted. I do remember that, and I was
Speaker 3: ten years younger than I am now and I just
Speaker 3: at the end of those days just ough being absolutely spent.
Speaker 3: So there's stuff that happened during the rape scene that
Speaker 3: I want to recall. And there's also stuff that we
Speaker 3: had a screening after the Muska hosted at the what's
Speaker 3: the hotel that has the screening room. It's not the
Speaker 3: Crosby Street Hotel. It's the whole house has a screening room,
Speaker 3: not soho house. It's is that the Crosby Street Hotel? Anyway,
Speaker 3: That's where it was, and a whole lot of it
Speaker 3: was small. It was intimates of the cast and crew,
Speaker 3: and they did a thing for four hundred anniversary. I
Speaker 3: got these pictures because I'm in the poster, and and
Speaker 3: that was really nice. And she got up and taught,
Speaker 3: you know, sort of did a welcome speech, and it
Speaker 3: was very passionate, and there were tears and it was like,
Speaker 3: you think she'd be so tired by now, really tired.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what, she doesn't need the money.
Speaker 3: She doesn't need the she we need her, and she
Speaker 3: she kind of and again this was ten years ago,
Speaker 3: but this was a four hundredth episode. She has so
Speaker 3: much passion for victims and storytelling and New York and.
Speaker 5: An actors love actors.
Speaker 3: She loves actors. And so she's, you know, started to
Speaker 3: talk and there was a glitch in the in the
Speaker 3: getting the show started on the projector or whatever, and
Speaker 3: so she just started talking more and more and then
Speaker 3: she's like, and here we are, and we just like
Speaker 3: we've been doing this long, but we just keep going
Speaker 3: and we just keep going and going, and we just
Speaker 3: we just keep going. And I remember saying, and then
Speaker 3: we just and now I'm going to just keep going
Speaker 3: and going. And then it started dud and then we
Speaker 3: all sat down and watched it. But it was so
Speaker 3: joyful and I felt like I was a part of
Speaker 3: an incredible moment in celebration for the show and the
Speaker 3: franchise and the and uh and for her, you know, joyful,
Speaker 3: joyful heart. I don't even know if she's still doing it.
Speaker 1: She does, I mean, she actually has this project called
Speaker 1: and the Backlog that just got back. Rape Kit legislation
Speaker 1: passed in all fifty states recently she had remembered. So
Speaker 1: she's literally like, I don't know if there's like another
Speaker 1: actor that's like besides just throwing money at stuff, that's
Speaker 1: like doing stuff as actively as she is.
Speaker 3: You know, she shows up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, how was being on twenty four? Tell us about
Speaker 5: the show you were on?
Speaker 4: It was?
Speaker 5: It was. It was a sensation.
Speaker 3: It was a sensation. It changed the world.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: It was so because everything's old as new again. I'm
Speaker 3: really appreciating like being on a show like that and
Speaker 3: how groundbreaking I guess it was. And people started binging
Speaker 3: it like with their kids during COVID. It was one
Speaker 3: of those shows that you know, they were reliving, you know,
Speaker 3: this show twenty four. And I had friends that we like,
Speaker 3: you were on twenty four? How come you never mentioned that?
Speaker 3: And we just had the last year. I want to say, oh,
Speaker 3: we had the twentieth twenty fourths, No, I think it
Speaker 3: was the twenty fourth. That's what made it significant anniversary.
Speaker 3: And we did these like this podcast party for not
Speaker 3: a podcast party, you know, something like this where they
Speaker 3: there's a charity and there were all these different what
Speaker 3: do you call it? I'm so fifty five years old time. No,
Speaker 3: but it was all remote, so just like, yeah, and
Speaker 3: Keifer did it, and the creators and you know, they
Speaker 3: had us all on and different, you know, we'd peel
Speaker 3: off with different directors and different and it was amazing.
Speaker 3: And Annie was Washing was on it, and I remember
Speaker 3: I did a talk with her and she passed away
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and she was one of
Speaker 3: Jack's you know, red hair big you know, love interests,
Speaker 3: and and I just fangled so hard on her because
Speaker 3: I just think she was such an incredible actress and
Speaker 3: such a great beauty. So uh so it was it
Speaker 3: was interesting, and we raised money for a company that
Speaker 3: does cleft palette surgeries for children. Uh and and yeah,
Speaker 3: it was great. It was great being on a show
Speaker 3: like that. It's uh, it's now, it's kind of cool,
Speaker 3: you know. To at the time, it was just a
Speaker 3: lot of work. People didn't like me on that show,
Speaker 3: like the fans did not like me. And I don't
Speaker 3: remember why. I think, oh, because the wife had died.
Speaker 3: Key first, Jack Bower's wife had died the year before
Speaker 3: the season before, like in the last episode, and I
Speaker 3: came in the first episode of the new season, poised
Speaker 3: to be the new love interest.
Speaker 4: And it's too soon.
Speaker 3: Even though time has part, it's just the new day.
Speaker 3: And within twenty four hours they wanted me and kay
Speaker 3: Ford to meet. He rescues me, I rescue him, I
Speaker 3: get kidnapped, We fall in love. I save his life,
Speaker 3: he saves mine, and like in a day, come on.
Speaker 3: Like it was a stretch, So I totally understood. And
Speaker 3: the Leslie who played his wife, who's become a fantastic,
Speaker 3: brilliant director. People loved her so so it was my
Speaker 3: first experience hearing secondhand that, yeah, the fans don't like you.
Speaker 1: Well, I read your article in Vanity Fair that you
Speaker 1: wrote a couple of years ago about postpartum psychosis. I
Speaker 1: thought it was really wonderful that you wrote something like that,
Speaker 1: and that is such a common thing that I think
Speaker 1: people don't talk about at all. Like I had a
Speaker 1: friend who had what we thought was postpartum anxiety. But
Speaker 1: it describes exactly what you were talking about that and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, nobody talks about that. They just
Speaker 1: talk about postpartum depression. But that it looks very different
Speaker 1: from this, you.
Speaker 3: Know it there's like levels of And I had to
Speaker 3: learn this because I didn't you know, I didn't realize
Speaker 3: I had postpartum depression because I didn't The idea is
Speaker 3: that if you have postpartum you want to kill your babies,
Speaker 3: and that's what I thought. It was like, if you
Speaker 3: have postpartum depression you want to harm your child or
Speaker 3: you don't want to be near it. You're just like yeah,
Speaker 3: Like I couldn't get enough of them. I was so worried,
Speaker 3: you know, I pushed out these twins that were in
Speaker 3: the NICU, and I learned way after the fact that
Speaker 3: there's baby blues, there's postpartum depression, and then there's postpartum
Speaker 3: with psychosis. And that's what I had, like the worst kind.
Speaker 3: I was hospitalized and then I sort of years later,
Speaker 3: I wrote this letter like a love letter to my
Speaker 3: girlfriend's about their support of me, and one of them
Speaker 3: is a movie producer and she's like, this is a movie.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I don't want to make a movie
Speaker 3: about this. I've I lived it, and that sort of
Speaker 3: became I became an unofficial advocate for But.
Speaker 5: It's become a movie right with Amanda?
Speaker 3: Well, yes, it's that's where it gets confusing. It's not
Speaker 3: I executive produced that movie with my friend. It's a
Speaker 3: story about a woman with postpartum it's not my story.
Speaker 3: And what got confusing was my girlfriend, Selene Ratre's a
Speaker 3: award nominated, winning she works with Chudy Styler and Maven Pictures,
Speaker 3: and she when she read my piece, she said this
Speaker 3: has to be a movie. And I said, I can't
Speaker 3: do a movie. And she said, well, I'm going to
Speaker 3: find a story about postpartum depression. And so she found
Speaker 3: this script by Amy Oh bloody hell, it'll come to me,
Speaker 3: and that became the movie starring Amanda Seyfried. But because
Speaker 3: then I'd written this article and it came out in
Speaker 3: Vanity Fair not after, not long after the movie had
Speaker 3: come out, people thought, oh, that's my story. And Amanda dies,
Speaker 3: like her character dies, and it's definitely not my story.
Speaker 3: It like a really bad cautionary tale. Mine. I'm alive.
Speaker 3: I didn't die, thank God.
Speaker 5: A mouthful of air is what this was. A mouthful
Speaker 5: of air.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful, beautiful a writer director Amy Koppleman, who's fantastic,
Speaker 1: And we became close way after the movie because I
Speaker 1: when I was.
Speaker 3: Doing press for this, you know this article I'd written
Speaker 3: and it got a lot of attention, and my ego
Speaker 3: was huge because I'd never written anything before and it
Speaker 3: got it got published by Vanity Fair magazine, and I like,
Speaker 3: it's a dream. I was on the cover of Vanity
Speaker 3: Fair magazine like twenty years before, in the Young Hollywood issue,
Speaker 3: and that was the big moment in my life. I
Speaker 3: didn't think I'd be like written up in it that
Speaker 3: I'd written all those years later. It was like, like,
Speaker 3: I'm looking up let's cover. I want to see it.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Well I'm in the gatefold apparently.
Speaker 5: The same everyone's opening it. Everyone's I don't want this one.
Speaker 3: It's It was in two thousand, two thousand, two thousand.
Speaker 3: It was so it was it was Mina Savari, it was, uh,
Speaker 3: who's the Spanish actress. She's a Penelope Cruise, Mina Safari. Uh,
Speaker 3: it was Annielibavit shot at We're on a Green Lawn.
Speaker 3: It was like splendor and it was the year two thousand.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, you look so good.
Speaker 1: Oh Paul Walker, Selma Blair walking exact crime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was so much fun. I mean,
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2: And then for people or is everyone just flirty? Was
Speaker 2: it a flirty time, flirty fun the young hollywoods.
Speaker 3: I was kind of was I like twenties in two thousand?
Speaker 3: I was okay, so I was thirty. It wasn't like
Speaker 3: you know, and I was in a relationship. I wasn't flirting.
Speaker 3: I was just very excited to you know, be there.
Speaker 3: And even though we all lived in LA they wanted
Speaker 3: to do this thing in Miami Beach. That was we
Speaker 3: ended up on a green lawn we could have done
Speaker 3: in like Studio Citio, so truly and everyone flew it.
Speaker 3: But it was kind of like a full circle, like
Speaker 3: being doing that and then the article coming out and wow, yeah,
Speaker 3: and it opened up a big conversation for me with
Speaker 3: other people who were like me too, I had it,
Speaker 3: or you know, my neighbor had it, or my sister
Speaker 3: had It's.
Speaker 1: It's great because like a lot of people, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I've had kids pretty recently.
Speaker 3: I have a five, and a four and a seven
Speaker 3: almost five.
Speaker 1: And like they ask you these they give you these
Speaker 1: at the pediatrician. They give you these forms that are like,
Speaker 1: are you having any bad thoughts or whatever? And it's
Speaker 1: very like generic. And I've had a lot of friends
Speaker 1: that are like, I had no idea. I was really
Speaker 1: really like I had really bad postpartum. I was like,
Speaker 1: did do you happen to get take those surveys at
Speaker 1: the doctor? They're like they were so they were so
Speaker 1: vague that I was like, this doesn't really hit on
Speaker 1: specifically what.
Speaker 5: I'm thinking, which is that I need.
Speaker 1: To watch my baby sleep all night or they won't
Speaker 1: they'll stop breathing. You know, like that doesn't necessarily they
Speaker 1: don't ask that question on the survey, and so you
Speaker 1: don't know. And so I think there's just like a
Speaker 1: lot of and you don't really go back to your
Speaker 1: OBG y n so there's not a lot of postpartum
Speaker 1: unless you have complications or whatever. You you don't really
Speaker 1: go back until your next annual, right, So.
Speaker 3: What, No, it's it's so that's why it's so often missed.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember I went to my O BG y n
Speaker 3: H for an appointment like to it was maybe two
Speaker 3: weeks a week whatever it was, and I and I
Speaker 3: remember looking him in the eye and I said, he said,
Speaker 3: how are you doing? I said, I'm not okay. I'm
Speaker 3: not okay. I can't drive, I don't know how to
Speaker 3: I think I'm really not okay. And he handed me
Speaker 3: this pamphlet. He said, here's some reading material of like
Speaker 3: who to Call? And I looked at it and I
Speaker 3: couldn't It might as well have been written in Russian.
Speaker 3: I And then I walked out and I went to
Speaker 3: the receptionist and I said, I just saw the doctor
Speaker 3: and I just I'm I'm not okay. I think I'm
Speaker 3: really not okay. And she said, oh, he just talks
Speaker 3: to people like that. And so I kind of felt
Speaker 3: like I was failed twice. Yeah, in my opinion, you know,
Speaker 3: And granted this was twenty fifteen, but still like I
Speaker 3: as a new mom to a doctor. Yeah, and this
Speaker 3: is New York City. These are the finest doctors in
Speaker 3: the world, New York Presbyterian. It shocks me that they
Speaker 3: let me leave the office without calling somebody. And so
Speaker 3: it took some of my friends, you know, who saw
Speaker 3: me rapidly get worse and worse and worse, like to
Speaker 3: have an intervention and say, we think you need help,
Speaker 3: and I was like, no, I don't. I don't want
Speaker 3: to kill my babies, and you know, blah blah blaha, YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 3: I'm obviously I recovered, and it's a depression you can
Speaker 3: recover from that. It's yeah, if I can do anything
Speaker 3: to bring more attention to it, I will, well, you know,
Speaker 3: oh god, okay, so what time is it? Two twenty four?
Speaker 3: It's a sick so I better go. Yeah, thank you
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Sarah.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't just play a mom a bad moment.
Speaker 5: I have been in real life. Oh man, she was fun.
Speaker 2: She was great, and I can't believe I didn't clock
Speaker 2: the sex and the city of it all.
Speaker 1: And like the fact that we got to talk to her.
Speaker 1: To me, I'll hold dear in my heart for years
Speaker 1: to come. And she sent us all these behind the
Speaker 1: scenes photos from that she was read. We will post
Speaker 1: those on our insta. So, and I love that you
Speaker 1: were worried.
Speaker 4: At first.
Speaker 2: I loved her being like and I remember nothing, and
Speaker 2: you were like, well, great, and then she went except
Speaker 2: I remember every detail from this. I was like the greatest,
Speaker 2: the greatest gift, Like, yeah, I just love that she
Speaker 2: was to me secret Australian and that she has had
Speaker 2: such like a varied career and then she had this
Speaker 2: like great experience and obviously really connected with Marishka and
Speaker 2: everybody at SVU, And I thought she played a very
Speaker 2: good narcissist psycho and it's.
Speaker 5: Just like the depths of darkness.
Speaker 2: But obviously we knew she was dark because she was
Speaker 2: willing to let her son shoot his best friend for
Speaker 2: the fair, not to get out and her crimes, So
Speaker 2: it's not as shocking that then she would tell everyone
Speaker 2: that her son.
Speaker 5: Was jerking off to it and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, it is wild that there are
Speaker 2: people like that around.
Speaker 3: I'm sure she didn't know so well.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she never thought in a million years that
Speaker 1: her gun averse, whiny son was going to actually get
Speaker 1: landa kill shot, like on one shot and kill this kid.
Speaker 1: But she certainly didn't have to make up that the
Speaker 1: son stood in the doorway and watch the mad sect
Speaker 1: while we jerked off, Like she definitely added some details
Speaker 1: that to further traumatize her son.
Speaker 2: And this happens all the time, and it's something that
Speaker 2: like an episode we're going to cover again. But this
Speaker 2: idea of when then they're like, well they seduced me,
Speaker 2: and who said it?
Speaker 1: Where it's like it's the adult's job to say no,
Speaker 1: was it? Sarah said like it's like.
Speaker 2: The kid can like try and try as much as
Speaker 2: they want, like you're the adult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same as they can want the games or
Speaker 1: candy or anything else.
Speaker 5: Like it's your job to say.
Speaker 2: No, like we all thought our swim coach was hot, right,
Speaker 2: or let's say this or that. But it's like it's
Speaker 2: their job to not get like be taken by the flirting.
Speaker 2: It's a bunch of hormonal kids, Like it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: what they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's basically your job to not be like
Speaker 1: sort of.
Speaker 4: And the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that the pair and her being like well,
Speaker 2: you know, they're bad upbringing, and it's like those rich
Speaker 2: loving black people, like what are you talking about?
Speaker 5: Like she's full super spar you know.
Speaker 2: It's just like that kind of assumption of like, well
Speaker 2: he must be the scholarship, that element of it all
Speaker 2: that she probably believed that people would believe he's an
Speaker 2: aggressor and used that because she is smart.
Speaker 5: That's what the ex husband said.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so like, yeah, I sort of wonder how
Speaker 1: these things would go, Like what happens if the kid
Speaker 1: never takes out the gun but he just sees his
Speaker 1: mom doing that, or he never he never like kills him, right,
Speaker 1: But he sees his mom doing that and like, I
Speaker 1: wonder how she would have covered it up with her son,
Speaker 1: you know, she would have figured.
Speaker 2: Out to wait a minute time so they Yeah, I
Speaker 2: wonder if she, like if he would cut his friend out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like she's doing it to more than one
Speaker 1: kid at the school, like like bitch, she just thinks
Speaker 1: she can get away with it. Like it's like she's
Speaker 1: like all the men we talk about on the show
Speaker 1: all the time, you know. But and then of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: the real life stories these teachers, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: And a therapist is so we've I mean, we had
Speaker 1: another episode about a therapist doing this and like it's
Speaker 1: so that's so sinister to me because it's like you
Speaker 1: are using like your skills that you've learned to manipulate somebody,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Caleb said this on a podcast, but he's
Speaker 2: like the most deeply deranged, like sick people you know,
Speaker 2: are like I think I'm going to become a therapist.
Speaker 5: Yes, I've said that.
Speaker 1: Like literally every friend I've had that is like a
Speaker 1: little bit cuckoo is like I'm going to become a therapist.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to therapy.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, And the people with the worst lives
Speaker 2: I've seen are life coaches.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, I don't know any like that. Many life
Speaker 1: coaches personally like friends, siblings and stuff, but it always
Speaker 1: feels like it's something someone's doing sort of on the side. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want a full time life coach. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want that to be if you're good enough
Speaker 1: to be a life coach, it should be your life,
Speaker 1: like it should be your whole life.
Speaker 5: To be my life coach if you want to be
Speaker 5: my life coach.
Speaker 2: Okay, But also it does suck because like when Casey
Speaker 2: sent us the photos from the crime, I was like,
Speaker 2: the teacher is hot.
Speaker 1: She's like really hot. The photo is hot, and it's
Speaker 1: like yeah, like it's you're the adult. Yeah, you're the adult.
Speaker 1: The boys can have crushes on you like that is
Speaker 1: that is fine?
Speaker 5: There's so many more of these.
Speaker 1: There's in the SV universe too, Like there's we and
Speaker 1: we did the one for mother, right, wasn't that the one.
Speaker 2: With John Abraham's Yes, but that's that's that's psychologists. Because
Speaker 2: I'm thinking hot teacher, that's Betty yes, beIN but but
Speaker 2: I'm thinking I'm putting teacher. I'm putting female teacher therapists
Speaker 2: in the same Betty Gilpin. And then there's Catfishing Teacher
Speaker 2: with the woman from but I think that ends up
Speaker 2: being that she.
Speaker 3: Was attacked in Catfishing Teacher.
Speaker 1: Heart yeah, oh no, no, no, Melissa Jonehart's in a
Speaker 1: different one. It's not called cat fishing teacher, which is
Speaker 1: no because she has like Catholic stuff too, and her
Speaker 1: husband's mad that she got raped and her husband in
Speaker 1: the episode used to date my friend for a long
Speaker 1: time and I hung out with him all the time.
Speaker 5: Melissa Joan Art SVU.
Speaker 3: Which one is that one called impulsives? It is?
Speaker 1: Is that it impulsive? You're right, Wow, I've never heard that.
Speaker 1: And then which one had a tumor. There's also a
Speaker 1: teacher who had a tumor in her head and that's
Speaker 1: why she was doing it the tumor.
Speaker 5: We did that one so early on. It's just a
Speaker 5: lot s Fu's really like upset about this.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what's even crazy, Like I did this the
Speaker 2: heated rivalry PowerPoint on all my obsessions, and I touched
Speaker 2: on some of the other ones, and it's like I
Speaker 2: didn't even mention SVU. That's how sick it is. It
Speaker 2: was called sorry, well, that's like this really sexual title.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I remember being like, that's weird. They she just names
Speaker 1: something ballgag, Like what the fuck are they.
Speaker 5: Doing up to? Really doing so? True?
Speaker 2: Honestly, maybe I'll wait stage door for Murushka. Who gives
Speaker 2: a fuck? I'm going I have a fund no. But
Speaker 2: I have so much stuff for her to sign. I
Speaker 2: would never mention the podcast. I would just be just
Speaker 2: a loose fan. But I have so many postcards with
Speaker 2: her on them. I have so much artwork. I have
Speaker 2: her People magazine. I could actually get something real signed.
Speaker 2: She might only be doing playbills. Only Michael Seahall did
Speaker 2: that for Hedwig, but you never know.
Speaker 3: Who knows. Uh.
Speaker 5: The listener who saw it had.
Speaker 3: Pictures with her.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, let me see one of them.
Speaker 1: A couple have seen it, but one sentence pictures. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's move on to our what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: Everybody knows this is our weekly segment where we direct
Speaker 1: you to an organization, a book, an article, something to
Speaker 1: give you more information about what we talked about today.
Speaker 1: And this week we wanted to put you to an
Speaker 1: article on healthline dot com titled twelve Signs of Narcissistic
Speaker 1: Abuse Syndrome and how to Get Help.
Speaker 5: It goes through a very.
Speaker 1: Helpful and descriptive list of behaviors that are indicative of
Speaker 1: a narcissist because I know people throw that around a lot,
Speaker 1: but it is like an actual diagnosis, and the article
Speaker 1: gets into narcissistic manipulation tactics.
Speaker 3: So if you think you or a loved one.
Speaker 1: Is a victim of a narcissisistic person, check this article
Speaker 1: out healthline dot com linked in our show notes.
Speaker 5: It will be posted and linked in our stories the.
Speaker 1: Day this episode comes out, and our stories are all saved.
Speaker 1: Our wr what was this repectors are all saved in
Speaker 1: our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram page, which.
Speaker 3: Is That's Messed Up Pod.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that, And next week we'll
Speaker 2: be doing I would say one of the Hall of
Speaker 2: Famers Angels season four, episode six d a dark.
Speaker 3: Dark, dark, but like it's dark in.
Speaker 1: Subject matter, but because of the acting there is like
Speaker 1: a lightness in like they're at a squash court, you
Speaker 1: know what, Andy, Yeah, the next week is dark as
Speaker 1: fuck child rape to the Max, but it's fun.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have fun.
Speaker 5: Please don't clip that. Yeah, don't clip that. See you
Speaker 5: next week. Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 5: If you have.
Speaker 1: Compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like
Speaker 1: us to cover, shoot us an email it That's Messed
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Speaker 1: your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Danielle Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun Dun