Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast Catch us
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Speaker 2: The Reality Check we begin with on the terminal, the headline,
Speaker 2: last minute US shutdown deal unlikely as McCarthy lacks leverage.
Speaker 2: And if you've been listening to this program at all lately,
Speaker 2: none of this should come as a surprise. We're going
Speaker 2: to bring you up to date on the most recent
Speaker 2: wrinkles here. But Congressman Matt Gates is still a major
Speaker 2: sticking point. ABC News caught up with him on the
Speaker 2: idea of warming up to a stopgap, a continuing resolution
Speaker 2: that is emerging, at least from the US Senate. They're
Speaker 2: also talking about one in the House. Maybe we'll see
Speaker 2: it today, but the gentleman from Florida is a no
Speaker 2: go right now.
Speaker 3: We're were going to get these individuals single subject spending
Speaker 3: those pass.
Speaker 4: That's my principal goal.
Speaker 5: Are you still you're still firm now on this short
Speaker 5: term spending bill?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not for a continuing resolution.
Speaker 2: Not for a continuing resolution perplexing evermore. Mitch McConnell, of course,
Speaker 2: the Republican leader in the Senate next door, has been
Speaker 2: working on a continuing resolution and brought his case to
Speaker 2: the floor.
Speaker 6: So, mister President, of vote against a standard short term
Speaker 6: funding measure is a vote against paying over a billion
Speaker 6: dollars in salary for border patrol and ice agents working
Speaker 6: to truck down lethal fentinyl and tame are open borders.
Speaker 6: Letting femi's disaster relief on dry up is not a
Speaker 6: productive way to advocate for victims of disasters. Letting small
Speaker 6: businesses loan applications collect dust, it's not a productive way
Speaker 6: to help working Americans contend with Washington Democrats historic inflation.
Speaker 6: Shutting down the government isn't an effective way to make
Speaker 6: a point.
Speaker 2: Not an effective way to make a point. But of
Speaker 2: course a few are making that point, and we get
Speaker 2: to talk about it now with Dusty Johnson, the Congressman
Speaker 2: from South Dakotas at large district, the Republican who is
Speaker 2: in the throes of the debt ceiling debate, is back
Speaker 2: with us now, in the throes of a potential shutdown. Here, Congressman,
Speaker 2: welcome back. I've got some specific questions for you about
Speaker 2: what you're hearing about what mechanism might be worth investing
Speaker 2: in where your head is. But I just wonder if
Speaker 2: you've kind of given up the ghost on this. The
Speaker 2: government going to shut down this weekend.
Speaker 7: Well, the government should not shut down. That would be
Speaker 7: an exceptionally stupid thing for us to do. Listen, things
Speaker 7: look a little bleak. I'm not going to try to
Speaker 7: put to smiley a face on it, but I'm not
Speaker 7: giving up. We still have time. Cooler heads need to prevail.
Speaker 7: Let's get our work done.
Speaker 2: Are we going to see a continuing resolution in the
Speaker 2: House today or when.
Speaker 7: I expect that tomorrow we will vote on a continuing resolution.
Speaker 7: It is something that I authored along with five of
Speaker 7: my colleagues, generally Conservatives, three members of the Freedom Caucus,
Speaker 7: and three members including myself, of the Conservative Main Street Caucus.
Speaker 7: It would be it would be a stop gap funding
Speaker 7: measure for another thirty days. At the same time, though,
Speaker 7: I would secure the border with policies that we know work.
Speaker 2: Your role on the Republican Main Street Caucus as chair
Speaker 2: is vital here. There are a lot of folks waiting
Speaker 2: for the noise to die down. So the Center can
Speaker 2: come to the rescue here. I wonder your view on
Speaker 2: that and what your message is for those members holding
Speaker 2: things up, like Matt Gates that we just heard from.
Speaker 7: I do think Matt's involvement, particularly regarding a stop gap
Speaker 7: funding measure is Listen, it's been really problematic. It's not
Speaker 7: been helpful. No one, including Matt Gates, thinks that we're
Speaker 7: going to get all of our work done in the
Speaker 7: House and in the Senate by the day after tomorrow
Speaker 7: and then magically, under that same timeline to meet with
Speaker 7: the Senate who wants to spend in general, more money
Speaker 7: and a House that, in general, including me, wants to
Speaker 7: spend a lot less money. It's gonna take some time
Speaker 7: to work that out. So the only question is whether
Speaker 7: or not we will do that work while federal employees
Speaker 7: continue to get paid and while federal taxpayers continue to
Speaker 7: be able to access services at the IRS and Indian
Speaker 7: Health and the Farm Service Agency and others, or whether
Speaker 7: or not we will demand that those agencies shut down
Speaker 7: while we continue our work. Listen, I think shutdowns are stupid.
Speaker 2: Once it happens, we could be looking at a weekend,
Speaker 2: a blip on the radar, some including Golden Sacks, are
Speaker 2: saying two to three weeks. Congressman, I'm sure you don't
Speaker 2: want to go there because you're holding out.
Speaker 4: Hope for a solution.
Speaker 2: But what should people be bracing for here? This looks
Speaker 2: like a full shutdown, not a partial one, and it
Speaker 2: could take some time if it actually happens to reopen.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm glad you mentioned the partial versus full shutdown,
Speaker 7: because I do think that really matters. The shutdown during
Speaker 7: twenty eighteen and in twenty nineteen was a partial shutdown.
Speaker 7: Sometimes sometimes people will say, as they're beating their chest,
Speaker 7: shut it all down. Government doesn't really do anything anyway,
Speaker 7: shut it all down. And I would just tell you
Speaker 7: that if this thing goes on for two weeks, you're
Speaker 7: going to have soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines who will have
Speaker 7: worked during that time, and then we're going to refuse
Speaker 7: to pay them. We will have TSA agents who will
Speaker 7: be reporting to duty even though they're not getting paid.
Speaker 7: We are going to have these frontline men and women
Speaker 7: keeping us safe who will be absolutely let down by
Speaker 7: their government. And anybody who wants to be cavalier about that,
Speaker 7: anybody want who want to act like act like that
Speaker 7: doesn't matter. The government doesn't add any value in anybody's life.
Speaker 7: They're playing games. I have a constitutional duty to get
Speaker 7: my work done. All of my colleagues do too. I
Speaker 7: wish they took that utional duty as seriously as I
Speaker 7: think they should.
Speaker 2: That said, I'd like to talk to you about some
Speaker 2: of the sticking points here, including funding for Ukraine. Interesting
Speaker 2: to see members vote on an amendment to remove Ukraine
Speaker 2: aid from the Defense spending bill yesterday. Most Republicans supported
Speaker 2: leaving that in, and I wonder your thoughts on this,
Speaker 2: and if the leadership is at odds with the rank
Speaker 2: and file on helping to fund the war effort in Ukraine.
Speaker 7: You're right insofar as a majority of Republicans and a
Speaker 7: majority of Democrats continue to be supportive in both chambers
Speaker 7: of helping Ukraine, making sure that not that American men
Speaker 7: and women die on Ukrainian battlefields, but that the Ukrainians
Speaker 7: have the ammunition and the supplies they need to hold
Speaker 7: the line against this illegal invasion by Vladimir Putin. I
Speaker 7: just to me, it's a little hard to imagine the
Speaker 7: Party of Ronald Reagan no longer interested in pushing back
Speaker 7: against communism and tyranny and dictatorships. Ukraine is trying to
Speaker 7: hold the line. We should continue to help them. Now
Speaker 7: that doesn't mean there should be blank checks. We do
Speaker 7: need additional accountability, but a majority of the House and
Speaker 7: the Senate are supportive of that. But this gets back
Speaker 7: to all these red lines everybody's got. Nobody ever gets
Speaker 7: everything they want in a negotiation. So when you have
Speaker 7: people who say Republicans or Democrats need to hold out
Speaker 7: until they get every single thing they demand, that is
Speaker 7: a profoundly unseerious person. That's a person who has never
Speaker 7: apparently actually had a successful marriage or business or been
Speaker 7: on a nonprofit board. Nobody gets everything they want. Ever,
Speaker 7: there's some give and take, and so maybe the Ukrainian
Speaker 7: package might not look exactly like I would design it.
Speaker 7: Maybe a stopgap funding measure might not look exactly like
Speaker 7: I would design it. But we have got to stop
Speaker 7: letting perfect be the enemy of the good.
Speaker 2: Let's boy, you just set a lot there, Congressman. I
Speaker 2: wonder from your perch at the helm of the Main
Speaker 2: Street Republican Caucus what your thought is as you look
Speaker 2: around and see a lot of people in your conference
Speaker 2: who might be described as not serious.
Speaker 7: I understand where they're coming from. One underreported fact is
Speaker 7: the extent to which the Republican Conference is really and
Speaker 7: truly unified on big picture questions of governance. We're thirty
Speaker 7: three trillion dollars in debt, and we've been talking about
Speaker 7: debt for so long that I think a lot of
Speaker 7: us assume that it's only as bad today as it
Speaker 7: ever was. It's much worse. We're reaching a tipping point.
Speaker 7: That's why Fitch downgraded us. In the next ten years,
Speaker 7: we won't spend three trillion dollars just on interest on
Speaker 7: the debt as we did in the last decade. We'll
Speaker 7: spend ten trillion. That is going to crowd out all
Speaker 7: of the other virtuous spending. Now, the reason I mentioned
Speaker 7: that is I understand why some of my colleagues believe
Speaker 7: that this is a battle we're fighting for. It absolutely
Speaker 7: positively is. We should not agree to appropriations measures that
Speaker 7: continue business as usual. It is totally unacceptable. And yet
Speaker 7: you've got to be able to fight and win with
Speaker 7: smart strategy and with a tactical plan that moves us
Speaker 7: in the right direction. The people who are screaming that
Speaker 7: we should shut the whole thing down. Do not have
Speaker 7: a plan for victory.
Speaker 2: You were one of the folks who helped to craft
Speaker 2: the debt ceiling deal, a deal that was made to
Speaker 2: avoid all of the drama that we're experiencing right now.
Speaker 2: How do you trust Speaker McCarthy to shake hands on
Speaker 2: the next deal as we relitigate the last one.
Speaker 7: I don't think it's a re litigation. The debt ceiling
Speaker 7: deal was really about our country avoiding default and setting
Speaker 7: some top line numbers for spending. It didn't go into specifics.
Speaker 7: It didn't say how much was going to be in
Speaker 7: that appropriation's bill versus this appropriation's bill. It didn't say
Speaker 7: how much money was going to go for order security
Speaker 7: or for Ukraine.
Speaker 2: But even those top line numbers didn't hold.
Speaker 7: No, that's true. The Senate wants to go above the
Speaker 7: top lines, and the House wants to go below. And
Speaker 7: I think I think Kevin McCarthy understands that at some
Speaker 7: point when we get into conference, when the House and
Speaker 7: the Senate come together, we're going to spend, unfortunately more
Speaker 7: money than the House wants, and we will probably spend
Speaker 7: a little less money than the Senate wants. I still
Speaker 7: think that debt ceiling deal was really important though, because
Speaker 7: it gave us those top line numbers that were centering
Speaker 7: around and those top line numbers are a two trillion
Speaker 7: dollar spending cut in the next five years. That is
Speaker 7: a larger victory than Conservatives have ever been able to
Speaker 7: deliver in any other spending package in modern history. And
Speaker 7: I think that's a pretty big win, on top of
Speaker 7: the welfare reform wins and the energy site that we got.
Speaker 2: Well, you helped us avoid a default, Congressman, and that's
Speaker 2: a big deal. I know you're out of time here.
Speaker 2: Will we avoid a downgrade from Moody's after getting that warning?
Speaker 7: Well, of the three Standard and Poors, Moodies and Fitch,
Speaker 7: two of the three have already downgraded us one years ago,
Speaker 7: months ago. And we have got to get our act together.
Speaker 7: We have an opportunity in the next four days to
Speaker 7: show the world that American debt instruments are indeed zero risk.
Speaker 7: That it may be messy, it may be noisy, but
Speaker 7: in the end of the day, America will have its
Speaker 7: financial house and order. We fail to do that, there
Speaker 7: will be negative repercussions.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your coming back to talk to US Congressman.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your candor, Dusty Johnson, Republican from South Dakota,
Speaker 2: chairs the Republican Main Street Caucus.
Speaker 4: Good luck in the fight here.
Speaker 2: We'll be following, of course, all of this as we
Speaker 2: assimilar panel Now for their take. Jeanie Shanzano is with
Speaker 2: this Democratic analyst, of course, a member of the family
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined today by Chapin Fay, the Republican strategist,
Speaker 2: is back with his former Press secretary for Governor George Pataki.
Speaker 4: Great to have you both with us here.
Speaker 2: Chapin, what do you think from what we just heard
Speaker 2: from the chair of the Main Street Caucus trying to
Speaker 2: salvage a continuing resolution here at odds with members of
Speaker 2: his own Republican conference girding for a shutdown. Will the
Speaker 2: Dusty Johnson's of the House be the ones to save this?
Speaker 3: You know, he certainly sounded like he had some clear thoughts,
Speaker 3: But I'm not sure we have a clear answer on
Speaker 3: whether the Dusty Johnson's or the others will will will
Speaker 3: loan out here.
Speaker 8: We do have sort of an.
Speaker 3: Unruly Republican caucus these days, but the reason for that,
Speaker 3: and I've said this before. Is a lot of you know,
Speaker 3: his colleagues further to the right of him, feel like
Speaker 3: they were sent to Congress to you know, rain and
Speaker 3: spending and try and control some of the out of
Speaker 3: control Biden administration agencies and actions by you know, through
Speaker 3: the House, which of course their power is the power
Speaker 3: of the purse. So it's going to be very hard
Speaker 3: to placate them when we're talking about you know, billions
Speaker 3: upon billions of dollars.
Speaker 8: You know, I was struck by the way he described.
Speaker 3: Making sure that Ukrainian soldiers had all the resources they
Speaker 3: need to stave off of the invasion. I mean, municipalities
Speaker 3: in the United States don't have the resources they need
Speaker 3: to to stave off you know, the incoming migrants into
Speaker 3: the into their areas. You know, social services under strain,
Speaker 3: you know. So you know, I think the priorities are
Speaker 3: a little out of whack, and I think the the
Speaker 3: more right word leading members of Congress, you know, those
Speaker 3: are the kinds of things they're thinking about.
Speaker 2: Well, we're going to have more time for this, genie.
Speaker 2: We've got less than a minute. Dusty Johnson says shutdowns
Speaker 2: are stupid.
Speaker 4: Are we going to have one?
Speaker 9: Anyway, we are going to have one anyway. He is
Speaker 9: absolutely right. They are stupid, and he is absolutely right
Speaker 9: the announ pologies he gave about marriages and business. You
Speaker 9: don't get everything you want. You won't get it in
Speaker 9: this It's about negotiation and everybody should listen to that.
Speaker 9: And I folk conservative Republicans and the Caucus do.
Speaker 4: Isn't that something?
Speaker 2: Is this why people want their candidates to be married?
Speaker 2: I never thought about it that way before, But there's
Speaker 2: a lesson in there. Genie, Shanzy, no Chape and Fay.
Speaker 2: We've got a lot to cover with our panel on
Speaker 2: the fastest show in politics.
Speaker 4: Much more. Next, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: I want to invite you to join us for an
Speaker 2: important conversation a bit later on in the broadcast. A
Speaker 2: global simulcast of our conversation with former Vice President Mike Pence,
Speaker 2: of course, just hours off of the big debate in
Speaker 2: see Me Valley. Pence is going to be here roughly
Speaker 2: an hour from now. Anne Marie Hordurn will join and
Speaker 2: we'll bring that to you live here on Bloomberg. Of course,
Speaker 2: conversations that you won't hear anywhere else, not the way
Speaker 2: we do them. As we reassemble our panel, Genie Schanzy,
Speaker 2: no Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst, is here along with
Speaker 2: Chapin Fay, Republican strategist, former press secretary for Governor George Pateke.
Speaker 2: Remembering the night it was, I'm not even sure how
Speaker 2: to describe it. But before we indulge our panel here,
Speaker 2: did you actually watch this thing? I don't know what
Speaker 2: the ratings are going to look like. Course, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: was counterprogramming. It was on Fox Business out at the
Speaker 2: Reagan Library. See Me Valley seven on the stage again
Speaker 2: Donald Trump not one of them. And things went off
Speaker 2: the rails pretty quickly here. I mean, you talk about interrupting,
Speaker 2: I'll just drop a needle on this.
Speaker 4: The fact Ramaswami.
Speaker 2: Talking with Ron DeSantis, Uh, Tim Scott, and it got
Speaker 2: pretty wacky here. Let me just find this for you
Speaker 2: give you a little taste like these are good people
Speaker 2: who are tainted by a broken system, and it's not
Speaker 2: the fault of anybody who's a thank you for speaking.
Speaker 2: While I'm interrupting, gentlemen.
Speaker 4: You'll have your turn one. We haven't focused. Everybody knows that.
Speaker 2: If I may address on holding Joe by accountable, Okay,
Speaker 2: I could keep going, but I'd like to hear from
Speaker 2: Genie and chapin, uh, Chape and Fay to what extent
Speaker 2: was this conversation last night, this exercise in the spirit
Speaker 2: of Ronald Reagan. It was at the Reagan Library. His
Speaker 2: name was invoked repeatedly. Was this a good look for
Speaker 2: the Republican Party?
Speaker 4: Never mind who won or lost.
Speaker 8: I don't think so. I think Ronald Reagan's turning over
Speaker 8: his grave.
Speaker 3: We are a long ways away, generations from when Ronald
Speaker 3: Reagan was running.
Speaker 8: And was president.
Speaker 3: You know the clip you played, but some of the
Speaker 3: gloves are off, so to a certain extent, it was
Speaker 3: probably always going to devolve at some point. But you know,
Speaker 3: like you sort of alluded to, you know, the big winner.
Speaker 8: Is always Donald Trump. I mean, you know, you have
Speaker 8: a bunch of.
Speaker 3: People failing to separate themselves from the crowd, and even worse.
Speaker 8: Just all talking at the same time, right, So.
Speaker 3: You know, meanwhile, Donald Trump is laughing all the way
Speaker 3: to you know, having better pull numbers than all of
Speaker 3: them combined. So you know, I don't know if any
Speaker 3: of them moved the needle forward, and I think some
Speaker 3: of them probably moved the needle backwards.
Speaker 2: I'll ask you about Donald Trump's visit to Detroit. In
Speaker 2: a moment, Jeanie, Chris Christy really tried to go out
Speaker 2: after Trump as we all expected, to call him out
Speaker 2: for not being there.
Speaker 4: Here's what he said.
Speaker 5: You're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on
Speaker 5: the stage and defending your record. You're ducking these things.
Speaker 5: And let me tell you what's going to happen you
Speaker 5: keep doing that. No one appears going to call you
Speaker 5: Donald Trump anymore. We're going to call you Donald Duck.
Speaker 2: Donald Duck.
Speaker 4: So we got a nickname, Genie. Is it gonna stick?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 9: It was one of the very bad one liners, and
Speaker 9: we heard a few of them last night. From Chris Christy.
Speaker 9: What started out as a potentially strong statement just fell flat.
Speaker 9: Nobody in the audience responded. Mike Pence obviously had a
Speaker 9: very strange comment that you know, Dame, you know you
Speaker 9: heard they sort of tried the moderators to chuckle a
Speaker 9: little bit after that one, but it was so bizarre
Speaker 9: and nobody really responded, and that really epitomized the night
Speaker 9: last night. It was not substantive and it wasn't entertaining.
Speaker 9: I mean, you know, it was like, not only to
Speaker 9: Nicki Haley's point, did you feel dumber, but you just
Speaker 9: wanted to turn off the TV because it wasn't even entertaining.
Speaker 9: So bad, bad night for Republicans. The winners clearly Donald
Speaker 9: Trump and also by extension, Joe Biden, who fear is
Speaker 9: running against anybody but Donald Trump, so God bless the
Speaker 9: two of them. The American public has to be very
Speaker 9: unhappy at this point.
Speaker 2: Well Ginny refers to a moment that Nicki Haley was
Speaker 2: clearly preparing for as she faced off with the aforementioned
Speaker 2: vive Cramaswami.
Speaker 10: This is infuriating because TikTok is one of the most
Speaker 10: dangerous social media acces that we could have, and what
Speaker 10: you've got. Honestly, every time I hear you, I feel
Speaker 10: a little bit dumber for what.
Speaker 2: You say, okay. But you know, then there was the
Speaker 2: approach from the network and the moderator's chapin when we
Speaker 2: got to this point, when Dana Perino decided to turn
Speaker 2: this into a reality TV show. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe everybody deserved that, maybe that's actually what it was,
Speaker 2: but this seemed like, well, just a different level.
Speaker 4: Than you might expect in a presidential debate.
Speaker 11: Here we go, which one of you on stage tonight
Speaker 11: should be voted off the island? Please use your marker
Speaker 11: to write your choice on the no pad in front
Speaker 11: of you fifteen seconds starting out of the people on
Speaker 11: the stage, you should be I'm absolutely serious, all.
Speaker 5: Due respect, I mean we're here like, well, you know,
Speaker 5: we're happy to debate.
Speaker 4: I think that that's disrespectful to my fellow competitive questions.
Speaker 7: It's talk about the future.
Speaker 2: Of the pet Okay, yeah, so kind of like the
Speaker 2: Show of Hands, I guess last time. But I mean, Chapin,
Speaker 2: are you kidding me?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't try to criticize other media organizations, but if
Speaker 2: we've cheapened this to the point of being an episode
Speaker 2: of Survivor, I mean, what's the point.
Speaker 3: Well, to be fair to uh, to data and the
Speaker 3: moderators and the organizers. I mean, I think the people
Speaker 3: on the stage, you know, brought it to that point.
Speaker 3: I mean I wasn't shocked at all to hear her
Speaker 3: say something like that. I mean, they're all out there,
Speaker 3: and they're all out there trying to out Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: And you know, I want to revisit that about the
Speaker 3: Donald Trump comment. I think Genie's is one hundred percent
Speaker 3: right about it being a bad one liner among many
Speaker 3: one liners. But this is what always happens when people
Speaker 3: try and fight Donald Trump.
Speaker 8: They try and be Donald Trump to fight him. It
Speaker 8: has never worked in history. He has an innate.
Speaker 3: Ability to be himself and be successful at you know,
Speaker 3: campaigns and elections and reality TV and everything.
Speaker 8: When candidates try and mimic him or try and use
Speaker 8: his own tactics against him, it always fails. Just like
Speaker 8: Donald Duck. That true, right, And that's what you're seeing
Speaker 8: on stage. I think.
Speaker 4: Donald Duck. Well, Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Was in Michigan, of course, this is what he did
Speaker 2: instead of attending the debate, went to Michigan to speak
Speaker 2: to UA Double D members in the throes of an
Speaker 2: historic auto strike at a non union shop and he
Speaker 2: told them. Essentially, he kind of knows more than they
Speaker 2: do about this.
Speaker 12: Massive percentages of your industry went to other countries like Mexico,
Speaker 12: like China, like South Korea, like Japan. In other words,
Speaker 12: your current negotiations don't mean as much as you think.
Speaker 12: I mean, I'll watch you out there with the pickets,
Speaker 12: but I don't think you're picketing for the right thing.
Speaker 2: You're picketing the wrong thing. Your protest isn't worth what
Speaker 2: you think it is, Genie. Is that how you get
Speaker 2: an endorsement from the UAW.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was another part of the very bizarre night
Speaker 9: which the debate was half of. And then these statements.
Speaker 9: I mean, essentially, what Donald Trump told these at this
Speaker 9: non union shop, as you mentioned these workers, was forget
Speaker 9: the picketing, not worth, the protests, not work the strike.
Speaker 9: All you have to do is vote for me and
Speaker 9: convince your leadership to endorse me, and all will be great.
Speaker 9: You know, that's his argument, and it is head scratching,
Speaker 9: it is mind numbing. I mean, one big question to
Speaker 9: ask Donald Trump, among many, is what about the ed
Speaker 9: plants unionizing? Why is that such a bad idea?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 9: Why do we have to stop producing ed cars. Why
Speaker 9: can't we unionize those plants. I mean, there's so many
Speaker 9: substance questions to be asked. But of course all he
Speaker 9: wanted to do was attack Joe Biden, because for Biden
Speaker 9: and Trump, we are now in a general He was,
Speaker 9: you know, just dismissed the debate as people trying to
Speaker 9: run for secretary. And I can't say he's wrong about that,
Speaker 9: and said, you know, look at vote for me and
Speaker 9: all will be good. Forget this picck a line, go
Speaker 9: home and wait until I'm in the White House, and
Speaker 9: I will restore whatever you need.
Speaker 7: In terms of.
Speaker 2: Money, We're going to talk a lot more about the
Speaker 2: UA double d because we have news. If you haven't
Speaker 2: heard about this, it's important actually, and we have a
Speaker 2: headline on the terminal that the UA doub is targeting
Speaker 2: thirty percent wage increases, a thirty percent pay raise by
Speaker 2: the time this negotiation is done, remembering they came down
Speaker 2: to thirty six percent most recently, and the Big three
Speaker 2: are still bulking. But we're gonna get into this now
Speaker 2: that Donald Trump and Joe Biden have visited UA doubled
Speaker 2: members in two very different events. We'll get into this
Speaker 2: coming up next with our panel, Genie and Chape and Faith.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: A day after Donald Trump visits Michigan to court unionized
Speaker 2: auto workers at non union shop, and two days after
Speaker 2: President Biden actually joins the picket line megaphone in hand
Speaker 2: making history. All the while, we do have news from
Speaker 2: the uaw This is according to people familiar with the matter.
Speaker 2: This is why, of course you listen to watch and
Speaker 2: read Bloomberg. The UAUW wants to emerge from its strike
Speaker 2: against the Big three with at least a thirty percent
Speaker 2: pay raise. This is what is on the back of
Speaker 2: the napkin in Sean Fain's office here. Of course, you
Speaker 2: know they came in above forty percent, they've come down
Speaker 2: to thirty six. And we're getting maybe a sense here
Speaker 2: of where this negotiation might end, whether the automakers feel
Speaker 2: on this about this the same way stocks in all
Speaker 2: three are rising today. For what it's worth, Let's reassemble
Speaker 2: the panel to get into this for a bit. Jeanie Shanzo,
Speaker 2: Democratic analyst and Bloomberg Politics contributors here with Jape and Fay,
Speaker 2: republican strategist former press secretary to George Pataki.
Speaker 4: What do you think here, Genie.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we're going to formally hear something
Speaker 2: like this from the Union anytime soon, but do we
Speaker 2: see light at the end of the tunnel with a
Speaker 2: headline like this?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 9: I think it is good news all around. I mean,
Speaker 9: as your first guest talked about the representative, when you're negotiating,
Speaker 9: you have to be willing to compromise. And if this
Speaker 9: headline holds true and this is what the Union is
Speaker 9: indeed saying, it is a good sign.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 9: I think for many people, myself included, forty percent was
Speaker 9: probably not a realistic number, but a number to start
Speaker 9: off with. To hear that they are down to ten,
Speaker 9: you know, down to thirty rather down ten makes sense
Speaker 9: and they're going to have to find some middle ground.
Speaker 9: So I think it is good news. Although I'm not
Speaker 9: sure we're going to see a light at the end
Speaker 9: of the tunnel very soon, it is the right direction,
Speaker 9: for sure.
Speaker 2: A lot of questions about what this might mean for
Speaker 2: other workers already emboldened by the UPS deal, this would
Speaker 2: be another one chapin. You can weigh in on this
Speaker 2: latest update. But I wonder if you think the visits
Speaker 2: by Donald Trump and Joe Biden actually might help to
Speaker 2: unlock some progress here to lead to a breakthrough.
Speaker 8: I don't know if those particular visits will lead to
Speaker 8: a breakthrough. I'm sure where.
Speaker 3: I hope the President's team President Biden's team is you know,
Speaker 3: involved or at least helping the two sides come to
Speaker 3: an agreement. But but I have to say, you know,
Speaker 3: the labor movement, you know, the momentum of the labor
Speaker 3: movement over recent months and years.
Speaker 8: Has been incredible.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the Writers Guild out in Hollywood
Speaker 3: just got everything they have for, or at least claim
Speaker 3: claim that they got everything they asked for. It looks
Speaker 3: like the UAW is going to get some pretty significant
Speaker 3: salary increases and other benefits regardless of you know, where.
Speaker 8: Management comes down on. So I do think labor is
Speaker 8: Labor is becoming. It's always been.
Speaker 3: A force to reckon with, but I think it's I
Speaker 3: think it's having its second moment.
Speaker 8: Here over the past couple of decades. With the momentum
Speaker 8: that they're making.
Speaker 2: That they're getting quite a contrast between the two presidential visits,
Speaker 2: if I can call them that. Of course, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: is a former president genie, but we've never seen anything
Speaker 2: quite like this, and the amount of attention that was
Speaker 2: thrown on the uau W here because of those two
Speaker 2: it is noteworthy. Here's what Trump said last night in Michigan.
Speaker 12: I side with the auto workers of American with those
Speaker 12: who want to make America great again, and I always will.
Speaker 4: And I don't get one thing.
Speaker 12: I don't get why Ford and GM, why these car
Speaker 12: makers aren't fighting for to make cars that are going
Speaker 12: to sell, to make cars that are going to be
Speaker 12: able to.
Speaker 8: Go on long distances, they immediately give up. I see
Speaker 8: it with the oil companies too.
Speaker 12: They're promoting windmills, which don't work, by the way, but
Speaker 12: they don't work.
Speaker 8: They want windmills all over the place.
Speaker 2: As much as I'd love to go into the whole
Speaker 2: windmills thing right now, Chapin, it does say something about
Speaker 2: the current state of the Republican Party. When Donald Trump
Speaker 2: stands there and says I side with the auto workers.
Speaker 2: I know he was at a non union shop, but
Speaker 2: he's effectively endorsing a unionized labor action, right, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think, you know, he is the leader of the current
Speaker 3: populist movement. I mean, is sort of you know, I
Speaker 3: wouldn't say it rises the level of a civil war,
Speaker 3: but there's certainly some tension within the Republican Party amongst
Speaker 3: sort of the establishments, the ideological conservatives, and the populace,
Speaker 3: which I think Donald Trump represents here. There are new
Speaker 3: demographics and types of people in America that feel that
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is speaking for them. If you look at
Speaker 3: you know, just a New York City sort of the young,
Speaker 3: up and coming Republican is very populist, right, very populism driven,
Speaker 3: and are supporting things like unions of all things in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. So you know, politics is cyclical, of course,
Speaker 3: and I think you're seeing, you know, Donald Trump and Republicans,
Speaker 3: at least his wing of the Republican Party, you know,
Speaker 3: looking out and at least paying lip service to some
Speaker 3: of these people in America who feel like they've been
Speaker 3: left behind. So I do think it's a little stunning,
Speaker 3: but you know, it has been building, and I think
Speaker 3: that's what Donald Trump represents currently.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many eyeballs he got last night.
Speaker 4: Genie.
Speaker 2: We made the point yesterday that this was not a
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson interview, and it wasn't a novelty act to
Speaker 2: the point that it was the first time, because well
Speaker 2: it's not the first time, even though he plans to
Speaker 2: skip all of these primary debates. And I guess counter
Speaker 2: program to some extent, you said earlier that Joe Biden
Speaker 2: and Donald Trump essentially won the debate last night, those
Speaker 2: two men who were not there, who won the visit
Speaker 2: to Detroit.
Speaker 9: You know, I think it's you know, still probably an
Speaker 9: even draw. I have to say, I think substantively it
Speaker 9: was the president. But we cannot deny that Donald Trump
Speaker 9: has a lot of support among people on the line.
Speaker 9: And while the leadership has tended towards the Democrats, and
Speaker 9: Joe Biden has been a you know, union stallgart, he
Speaker 9: has been the president of Labor, many people on the
Speaker 9: line feel that they have been forgotten by the Democratic Party.
Speaker 9: You know, this has been a long problem, long term
Speaker 9: problem for the Democrats. That's why Michigan is going to
Speaker 9: be so much up for grabs when we get to
Speaker 9: twenty twenty four. But Joe, if you talk to Donald Trump,
Speaker 9: he's going to tell you it was the biggest event
Speaker 9: last night. He got tons of eyeballs. Don't you worry, nothing, nothing.
Speaker 9: This is probably Super Bowl big. So you know the
Speaker 9: number is you can just count on him to say
Speaker 9: they were bigly.
Speaker 2: They were bigly that he said ten thousand people were
Speaker 2: stuck outside chapin. Are we going to really do this
Speaker 2: crowd sized thing again for another year?
Speaker 8: Boy? I hope not. But you know, it's Donald Trump.
Speaker 7: But he's you know, he's a marketer.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wouldn't call them lines, but certainly, you
Speaker 3: know New York real estate developer. Embellishments, you know, is
Speaker 3: his style. And I think Genie was right about the
Speaker 3: state of labor. You know, it has long been discussed
Speaker 3: among you know, publican circles that union leadership is democratic solidly,
Speaker 3: but the rank and file is starting to you know, vote.
Speaker 4: Their Poto books.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is something that we've been watching very closely
Speaker 2: and will continue to. It really plays into this presidential
Speaker 2: election cycle in a unique way.
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: I want to welcome everyone our TV and radio audiences
Speaker 2: worldwide for a special conversation with the former Vice president
Speaker 2: Mike Pence. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington here on Bloomberg
Speaker 2: alongside Anne Marie. Hor Dern and Anne Marie were just
Speaker 2: hours off of the Republican debate. As we've been discussing
Speaker 2: in SeeMe Valley last evening. That was a debate that
Speaker 2: could end up being critical for the future of any campaign,
Speaker 2: including Mike Pences.
Speaker 13: Yep, that's absolutely right. Our Vice president was at that
Speaker 13: debate and we'll see what comes next for him. Right,
Speaker 13: there's a few people who are saying, potentially, with his
Speaker 13: poll numbers, he might have to drop out.
Speaker 2: That's right, well, he joins us from California. Now, mister
Speaker 2: Vice President, it's great to have you back on Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: We welcome you, and I wonder your thoughts about that exercise.
Speaker 2: Last night, we were just playing clips of three, four
Speaker 2: people talking over each other for minutes on end, a
Speaker 2: lot of zingers, a lot of one liners. One of
Speaker 2: the moderators even wanted to play a game of Survivor
Speaker 2: with you. I just wonder with to the extent that
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan's legacy was invoked last evening in Seame Valley,
Speaker 2: did Republicans live up to the standard set by Ronald
Speaker 2: Reagan and that exercise last night?
Speaker 14: Well, I'm standing here at the Reagan Library still, and
Speaker 14: you know, it was very special for me to be
Speaker 14: a part of the debate last night in here, because
Speaker 14: Reagan is the reason I became a Republican, and it
Speaker 14: was his conservative agenda, it was his optimism, and it
Speaker 14: was his civility that really defined the man and defined
Speaker 14: his administration. And last night's debate was at times chaotic,
Speaker 14: but I really welcomed the opportunity to make my case
Speaker 14: that I believe that, while while the former president and
Speaker 14: some others who were on that stage are steering our
Speaker 14: party away from Ronald Reagan's agenda of American leadership in
Speaker 14: the world, fiscal responsibility, even the right to life, that
Speaker 14: I'm the most consistent and tested conservative in this field.
Speaker 14: The opportunity to make that case here at the Reagan
Speaker 14: Library to the American people was a great privilege for me.
Speaker 13: Mister Vice President, you spoke a lot about what you're
Speaker 13: speaking about now, the fact that populism has taken control
Speaker 13: of the Republican Party. But if you look back to
Speaker 13: what Trump was saying in twenty fifteen when he announced
Speaker 13: his campaign to become president, it reeked of populism. He
Speaker 13: was calling polic dumb. In his first speech, he was
Speaker 13: talking about draining this swamp. He was talking about the
Speaker 13: United States not beating anyone ever. He said, when was
Speaker 13: the last time we beat Japan? Do you feel responsible
Speaker 13: for giving credibility to populism in this Republican Party that
Speaker 13: we're seeing today.
Speaker 14: You know, when Donald Trump came down that escalator, he
Speaker 14: told the American people he was going to make America
Speaker 14: great again. The first person to say make America great
Speaker 14: again was Ronald Reagan. And in that campaign, whether it
Speaker 14: was a commitment to conservatives on our courts, a commitment
Speaker 14: to cut taxes, a commitment to rebuild our military, Donald
Speaker 14: Trump promised to govern as a conservative, and I believe
Speaker 14: when he chose me to be his running mate, there
Speaker 14: was evidence of his seriousness about that, and for four
Speaker 14: years we did govern as conservatives. We kept our word
Speaker 14: on the world stage. We stood with our allies, we
Speaker 14: stood up to our enemies, We advanced the largest tax
Speaker 14: cuts in American history, and of course appointed conservatives to
Speaker 14: our courts at every level, including three of the justices
Speaker 14: that gave us a new beginning for life. But what
Speaker 14: I want people to understand is that Donald Trump makes
Speaker 14: no such promise today. Whatever his rhetoric was back in
Speaker 14: the day, and his rhetoric has remained the same. The
Speaker 14: policies that he's advancing now, which included a ten percent
Speaker 14: tax on all imports into the United States that the
Speaker 14: Tax Foundation said would cost five hundred thousand jobs, is
Speaker 14: directly opposite of our administration and the Reagan legacy of
Speaker 14: cutting taxes for individuals and businesses.
Speaker 1: The way the.
Speaker 14: President is joining a chorus in the Party of embracing
Speaker 14: appeasement and isolationism from supporting Ukraine in their battle against
Speaker 14: the unconscionable Russian invasion, that's not consistent with the way
Speaker 14: that we stood strong with our allies, we stood up
Speaker 14: to our enemies, turned our armed forces loose to take
Speaker 14: down isis we actually armed forces. The United States took
Speaker 14: out one hundred Wagner Group Russian military personnel in twenty
Speaker 14: eighteen in Syria. We stood strong in the world stage,
Speaker 14: embraced our role as leader of the free world. Of course, lastly,
Speaker 14: just on the right to life. Just in recent days,
Speaker 14: the American people have heard the President literally criticize states
Speaker 14: that enacted strong pro life protections from the moment that
Speaker 14: an unborn child experiences a heartbeat, and he's made no
Speaker 14: commitment to support protections for the unborn at the national level.
Speaker 14: That coming from the leader of the most pro life
Speaker 14: administration in history. That's what I mean when I talk
Speaker 14: about the President and some of his imitators walking away
Speaker 14: from that timeless conservative agenda. But if I'm president of
Speaker 14: the United States, the American people can be confident I'll
Speaker 14: lead as America on the world stage, being the leader
Speaker 14: through the world, will lead presidents and policies, and will
Speaker 14: balance our budget and stand for life.
Speaker 2: Your former running mate was, of course not there last night,
Speaker 2: and some believe that he will win the Republican nomination
Speaker 2: without answering a single question in a forum like the
Speaker 2: one that you endured last evening. What should Donald Trump
Speaker 2: answer to would it be the trillions in debt that
Speaker 2: he added to the nation and left behind? Would it
Speaker 2: be his legal challenges right now?
Speaker 4: What is it?
Speaker 14: Well, Look, I think he ought to be there. He
Speaker 14: should have been there last night, He should have been
Speaker 14: there at the first debate. Look, no one is entitled
Speaker 14: the nomination of their party. And frankly, Donald Trump continues
Speaker 14: to campaign as though he were the incumbent president. But
Speaker 14: think about this, he's campaigning as an incumbent, but he
Speaker 14: has less than fifty percent support of Republicans. That means
Speaker 14: half of Republicans are looking somewhere else. I think he
Speaker 14: owes it to our party to step forward and answer
Speaker 14: the questions that they can be on those issues. But
Speaker 14: for my part, for my part, I think the president
Speaker 14: ought to explain while having passed that's the largest tax
Speaker 14: cuts and tax reform in history, he now advocates what
Speaker 14: would be the largest proposal of tariffs, a ten percent
Speaker 14: tariff on all imports, literally since the Herbert Hoover administration.
Speaker 14: And why the president, after we rebuild our military stood
Speaker 14: strong on the world stage, is now joining a courus
Speaker 14: of isolationists in the party, saying that support for the
Speaker 14: Ukrainian military is not sustainable and joining others who were
Speaker 14: on that stage last night, who would be fully prepared
Speaker 14: just to let Vladimir Putin overrun Ukraine. And of course,
Speaker 14: as I said last night, I think if Putin grabs Ukraine,
Speaker 14: that just gives a green light to Jijiingping to move
Speaker 14: against Taiwan. So I think we achieve peace through strength.
Speaker 14: And I think the President ought to be willing to
Speaker 14: step up and explain why he's changed his mind about
Speaker 14: America's obligations but leader of the free world, and why
Speaker 14: he's changed his mind on such a fundamental issue as taxation.
Speaker 13: Well, you've talked a lot. What about your commitment to
Speaker 13: strong defense. We had on Senator Tommy Tuberville on this
Speaker 13: week who said this, This was his quote. He said,
Speaker 13: the US military is not an equal opportunity employer. You
Speaker 13: are the father, you are the stepfather of men who
Speaker 13: have given their lives to this country, to our military.
Speaker 13: What do you have to does this have to say
Speaker 13: about the state of the Republican Party.
Speaker 14: Well, I don't know the context of that remark.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 14: The armed forces of the United States, throughout our history,
Speaker 14: from the founding of the country have been an incredible
Speaker 14: meeting ground for people of every race and every background
Speaker 14: who put on the uniform and served.
Speaker 2: Mister Vice President, I feel like we should put a
Speaker 2: finer point on that. We were asking him about his
Speaker 2: decision to vote against C. Q. Brown, the new chairman
Speaker 2: of the Joint Chiefs. He called and woke and said
Speaker 2: he wants to mix race into the military and made
Speaker 2: that comment that Anne Marie just referred to. Is that
Speaker 2: wrong view for this country?
Speaker 14: Well, look, I believe, and look, I have great respect
Speaker 14: for General Brown, but I'm very frustrated when I see
Speaker 14: the political correctness in the woke politics that's taken hold
Speaker 14: of the Pentagon under the Biden administration. But I do
Speaker 14: know how it works. I've worked in a White House.
Speaker 14: I know how Pentagon works.
Speaker 1: I mean that.
Speaker 14: We have civilian control of the military. I'm confident that
Speaker 14: this woke politics is emanating out of the Biden administration.
Speaker 14: But look that Senator Tubberville has every right to vote
Speaker 14: to confirm or not to confirm. But for my part,
Speaker 14: I've made it very clear that if I'm President of
Speaker 14: the United States, We're going to build a military fitted
Speaker 14: to the widening challenges in the twenty first century. We're
Speaker 14: going to get this woke politics out of the Pentagon
Speaker 14: on day one, and that includes we're going to reinstitute
Speaker 14: the ban on transgender personnel in the United States military.
Speaker 14: I truly do believe that that is not in the
Speaker 14: interest of having a military that reflects unit cohesion, preparedness,
Speaker 14: is deployable. We'll put that common sense back into effect.
Speaker 13: Vice President Mike Pence, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 13: It's all the time we have today.
Speaker 9: Thank you again.
Speaker 13: We hope you come back soon.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the sound On podcast.
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