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Speaker 1: Max chaff can hear from Everybody's Business. Today, we are

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Speaker 1: sharing another episode from one of our favorite Bloomberg podcasts,

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Speaker 1: The Big Take. This week, Stacey Vanoxsmith looks into a

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Speaker 1: rising group of people who are delaying their retirement or

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Speaker 1: re entering the workforce by choice. We'll be back with

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Speaker 1: a new episode of Everybody's Business this Friday.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. I'm fitter. I'm better

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Speaker 2: at my job than I was when I was thirty.

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Speaker 2: Why on earth should I Why would I want to

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Speaker 2: sit around and do nothing?

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Speaker 3: David Lloyd spent his career working in commercial radio, first

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Speaker 3: as a presenter and eventually running stations in places like Manchester,

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Speaker 3: London and Birmingham. But by the time he was approaching sixty,

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Speaker 3: he found himself and his peers in what he calls

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Speaker 3: semi retirement.

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Speaker 2: That we were doing bits of consulting and writing, and

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Speaker 2: we're on that sort of drift towards towards, you know,

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Speaker 2: from being busy every day to doing nothing.

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Speaker 3: David wasn't ready to retire, but work was starting to

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Speaker 3: dry up. He was also noticing a shift as a

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Speaker 3: radio listener. More and more of his favorite presenters were

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Speaker 3: getting replaced by younger talent, and the stations were playing

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Speaker 3: music that wasn't really tailored to him and people from

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Speaker 3: his generation. So during the pandemic, he had an idea

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Speaker 3: for a.

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Speaker 2: Radio station for people our age.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Boom Radio.

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Speaker 2: After Baby Boomers. Because we know that Boomer has become

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Speaker 2: a bit of an insult, let's reclaim it.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't just for people David's age, it was made

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Speaker 3: by them too. The station employs people who have decades

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Speaker 3: of experience under their belts and desire to keep working,

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Speaker 3: but who might have limited opportunities. David and his radio

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Speaker 3: peers are part of a growing segment of the global

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Speaker 3: population that wants to continue working later in life or

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Speaker 3: who are returning to the workforce after years away from it.

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Speaker 2: This is the radio station We've actually spent our whole

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Speaker 2: lives getting ready to run. It really is. So I'm

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Speaker 2: having an absolute ball.

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Speaker 3: I'm Stacey Vanoxsmith in for Sarah Holder and David Gura,

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Speaker 3: and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today.

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Speaker 3: On the show, why are so many workers delaying retirement

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Speaker 3: or re entering the workforce? What challenges does that pose

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Speaker 3: for them? And for the labor market, and what one

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Speaker 3: group of radio lovers did to take matters into their

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Speaker 3: own hands. In the US, entering your sixties marks the

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Speaker 3: start of a new chapter senior citizenship. You become eligible

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Speaker 3: for things like Medicare and reduced transit fairs. You can

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Speaker 3: start claiming social Security funds, and the expectation is you're

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Speaker 3: going to retire soon if you haven't already. It's an

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Speaker 3: idea that dates back centuries to late eighteen hundred's Germany.

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Speaker 4: I think it was Auto von Bismarck who created the

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Speaker 4: social security program back in Germany when.

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Speaker 3: Almost no one would that's down on it, right.

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Speaker 4: That's right. That's part of what we're trying to have

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Speaker 4: a conversation about is that system no longer really functions

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Speaker 4: the way it should today because that was a system

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Speaker 4: created when people weren't living as long and the jobs

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Speaker 4: were quite different back then. They were more physical and

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Speaker 4: agrarian and manufacturing kind of jobs, so it was it

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Speaker 4: was a different work style.

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Speaker 3: Hollan Azeri is the head of the Longevity Economy Initiative

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Speaker 3: at the World Economic Forum.

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Speaker 4: People are living longer lives than ever before. However, our

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Speaker 4: retirement systems our pension systems didn't really change to catch

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Speaker 4: up with that.

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Speaker 3: We still have that mid sixties retirement standard, even though

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Speaker 3: when it was established back in eighteen hundreds Germany, the

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Speaker 3: average German only lived until about forty and when the

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Speaker 3: US established its social security system in the nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 3: the average lifespan was about sixty. To American life expectancy

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Speaker 3: is nearly eighty.

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Speaker 4: People are living so much longer that they could work longer.

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Speaker 4: Now we're not saying people should work longer, but what

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Speaker 4: we have found is some people need to work longer

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Speaker 4: because they just didn't save enough, and between their savings

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Speaker 4: and social security, it's not enough to live off of.

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Speaker 4: Some people want to work longer because that is where

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Speaker 4: they find their purpose and their community, and they're not

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Speaker 4: quite ready to let that go. And when you're talking

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Speaker 4: about retirement going from five years to twenty five years,

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Speaker 4: that's a long time to try to find something to

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Speaker 4: keep yourself busy and happy, and that.

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Speaker 3: Has led to the rise of so called unretirement, basically

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Speaker 3: returning to the workforce after you retire.

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Speaker 4: So there are two main reasons why people unretire. One

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Speaker 4: is definitely financial. They retire and they realize they don't

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Speaker 4: have enough money saved up to live the kind of

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Speaker 4: life that they want to live.

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Speaker 3: According to US Banks twenty twenty five Wealth Report, which

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Speaker 3: surveyed five thousand American adults, three quarters of Gen Z

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Speaker 3: and millennials expect to spend more than fifteen years retired,

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Speaker 3: and sixty three percent of adults worry they'll need to

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Speaker 3: unretire to make ends meet. Pension programs are largely a

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Speaker 3: thing of the past, and the trustees who manage the

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Speaker 3: Social Security program announce that they're expecting the fund to

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Speaker 3: run out of money in twenty thirty two. After that point,

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Speaker 3: the program would still take in payroll taxes, but those

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Speaker 3: revenues would only cover about seventy eight percent of scheduled benefits, unless,

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Speaker 3: of course, Congress acts. American retirees just do not have

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Speaker 3: the security they once had.

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Speaker 4: But the other reason people on retire is that sense

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Speaker 4: of community and purpose that they want to be back

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Speaker 4: in with a group, that they want to feel like

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Speaker 4: they're giving back, that they're part of a community for

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Speaker 4: whatever reason. Work is that community For a lot of

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Speaker 4: us here in the United States. That didn't used to

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Speaker 4: be the case back in the fifties and sixties, but

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Speaker 4: today it is that's where we get our friends, our community,

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Speaker 4: and so people are looking for that.

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Speaker 3: According to a survey from the AARP, the percentage of

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Speaker 3: retirees who unretire or decide to go back to work

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Speaker 3: is still pretty low. It hovered around seven percent this winter,

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Speaker 3: but that is up a full percent from just a

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Speaker 3: few months prior. Even if that number is slowly on

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Speaker 3: the rise, it's not so easy to re enter the

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Speaker 3: workforce as an older person.

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Speaker 4: I think the biggest challenge to be honest Stacey is

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Speaker 4: agism and people thinking that they don't understand the technology,

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Speaker 4: they won't want to learn new things. There's this still

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Speaker 4: misguided notion that younger employees and older employees don't get along,

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Speaker 4: that there's this generational rift. We did a report actually

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Speaker 4: with the OECD and ARP several years ago that showed

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Speaker 4: that the most creative teams were the ones that were

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Speaker 4: multi generational.

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Speaker 3: The job Seeker site resume Builder surveyed one thousand hiring managers,

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Speaker 3: and a third of them said they had concerns about

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Speaker 3: hiring seniors. When asked why, sixty four percent of them

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Speaker 3: cited potential health issues. Nearly half pointed to senior's lack

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Speaker 3: of experience with technology, and around forty percent said seniors

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Speaker 3: work too slowly that bias shows. In twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: Bureau of Labor Statistics data showed that it took job

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Speaker 3: seekers who were over sixty five about ten weeks longer

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Speaker 3: to find a job compared with people in their early twenties.

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Speaker 3: In the UK, where David Lloyd from Boom Radio lives,

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Speaker 3: it took about twenty percent of unemployed eighteen to twenty

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Speaker 3: four year olds over a year to find a job,

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Speaker 3: compared to thirty percent of over fifty year olds.

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Speaker 2: So society I said, yes, we've had enough of you now,

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Speaker 2: you know, can you go away and just sit quietly.

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Speaker 4: I think people think that the best employees are within

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Speaker 4: a certain age frame, but there's all sorts of different

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Speaker 4: ages that an employee could benefit a company.

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Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot of emphasis right now

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Speaker 3: in AI and people who are tech savvy and can

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Speaker 3: come in and are comfortable with technology and all of

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Speaker 3: these things. Like what are some of the advantages that

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Speaker 3: an older worker might bring.

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Speaker 4: I think one of them is probably stability, being a

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Speaker 4: little more unflappable. I think they can manage crises a

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Speaker 4: bit more seamlessly.

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Speaker 3: And that unflappability, that battle tested experience. It's something David

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Speaker 3: says he's proud of when he looks at his generation.

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Speaker 2: We felt we're probably at the peak of our powers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we're still very agile able, we

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Speaker 2: can do anything. We've learned all the things that can

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Speaker 2: possibly go wrong, and just as you're at that stage

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Speaker 2: of life, nobody wants to employ you. Another anniversary Oldie

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Speaker 2: Paul McCartney Stevie Wonder, Ebony and Ivory, produced by George

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Speaker 2: Martin agis.

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Speaker 3: After the break, how David's dream of a radio station

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Speaker 3: run by unretired workers panned out, and what creative solutions

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Speaker 3: other countries and companies have developed to address this. The

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Speaker 3: idea for Boom Radio came to David Lloyd on an

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Speaker 3: evening war in twenty twenty, at the height of the

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Speaker 3: COVID pandemic. He was going to start his own radio station,

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Speaker 3: employ other retired or semi retired presenters, and appeal to

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Speaker 3: other Boomer listeners.

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Speaker 2: We also thought that if we can do it from

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Speaker 2: our own homes, the overheads of running the radio station

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Speaker 2: can be pretty low, and therefore we can create, hopefully

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Speaker 2: a business which can sustain itself.

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Speaker 3: David emailed an old colleague of his, Phil Riley, and

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Speaker 3: laid out his vision for the station.

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Speaker 2: He sent, as he would a spreadsheet back, saying I've

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Speaker 2: done the figures, because that's the sort of person he is,

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Speaker 2: and you need other people. I've done the figures. I

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Speaker 2: think this could work. Let's call it Boom Radio.

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Speaker 3: David convinced some private investors to back him, drew money

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Speaker 3: out of his pension, and then started calling up potential

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Speaker 3: on air talent.

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Speaker 2: And I said, look, come with us. We'll pay you,

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Speaker 2: but not very much at the outset. Come with us

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Speaker 2: on the journey and if it goes well, and they

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Speaker 2: all said.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And just like that, Boom Radio was born.

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Speaker 2: And it's Friday morning here on Boom Radio. Id you

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Speaker 2: when you get to a certain age, Fridays aren't that

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Speaker 2: much difference on Mondays. We're an upbeat radio station. People

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Speaker 2: turn us on to be cheered up. That's why they

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Speaker 2: come to us. But don't be afraid to let out

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Speaker 2: those little things that people our age talk about. So

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Speaker 2: they will talk about their hearing aid falling out. But

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Speaker 2: just like people our age in real life, that you

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Speaker 2: can talk about those things without those things defining you.

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Speaker 3: The response was immediate. Boom Radio went from a digital

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Speaker 3: broadcast to securing a national transmission within weeks of hitting

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Speaker 3: the airwaves. They brought an advertisers who wanted to capture

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Speaker 3: their demographic cruises, insurance, an easy to use smartphone.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of very fitting products.

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Speaker 3: Today, five years in, the station has more than a

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Speaker 3: million monthly listeners.

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Speaker 2: I've never felt anything like it. I mean we get emails,

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Speaker 2: letters as well that make us cry every day. You know,

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Speaker 2: when they say you have changed my life. You know,

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Speaker 2: things like my husband has died. There was just an

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Speaker 2: empty house. Now I put you on and I felt

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Speaker 2: there's some company there.

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Speaker 3: And there's the impact on the station's three dozen presenters,

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Speaker 3: including David.

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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful cyclical thing. I mean my back bedroom again,

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Speaker 2: messing about with radio, just as when I was sixteen,

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Speaker 2: and it's beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Boom Radio is a more grassroots example of a company

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Speaker 3: putting its emphasis on older workers, but there are some

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Speaker 3: companies that have their own initiatives to attract and retain

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Speaker 3: older employees. CBS Health has a program that recruits workers

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Speaker 3: over fifty for tough to fill pharmacy positions. Amazon and

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Speaker 3: Goldman Sachs both have returnship programs, which recruit and train

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Speaker 3: people who've been out of the workforce for a significant stretch.

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Speaker 3: Other companies offer phased retirement programs that allow older workers

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Speaker 3: to keep their jobs but work fewer days a week

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Speaker 3: or take on more of a mentorship role.

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Speaker 4: I think people really suffer a bit when they lose

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Speaker 4: that institutional knowledge. So I think that's part of the

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Speaker 4: reason why fase retirement programs work, because you can keep

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Speaker 4: some of that knowledge still and help everyone else benefit

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Speaker 4: from it.

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Speaker 3: Hollan Azeri at the World Economic Forum.

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Speaker 4: I think the other benefit is I think a more

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Speaker 4: diverse workforce, whether that's ages, or gender or anything else,

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Speaker 4: is a more interesting and creative workforce. And so I

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Speaker 4: really think it benefits everyone if you have a diversity

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Speaker 4: of voices.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you've looked at issues of longevity and work

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Speaker 3: all over the world. Do we see any differences between

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Speaker 3: the US and people looking at these issues in the

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Speaker 3: rest of the world.

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Speaker 4: So many advanced countries in the rest of the world

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Speaker 4: have longer lifespans than we do. That's one thing I'll say,

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Speaker 4: Oh interesting, some have more sustainable pension systems than we do,

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Speaker 4: which also changes things a bit. Some have mandatory retirement ages.

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Speaker 3: Free healthcare.

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Speaker 4: Free healthcare is a huge part of it. So it's

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Speaker 4: hard to look at longevity with one lens globally because

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Speaker 4: every country has kind of a different advantage or disadvantage.

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Speaker 4: I can tell you about the countries that I think

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Speaker 4: are doing it right, and one of those is Singapore.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, what's Singapore doing.

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Speaker 4: They definitely have an aging population, and what they're specifically

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Speaker 4: looking at is helping their population upskill and reskill in

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Speaker 4: a way that nobody else is doing. So they have

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Speaker 4: this program called Skills Future where at midlife, which they

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Speaker 4: say is forty, which I think might be older going forward,

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Speaker 4: but at forty you get money to once again reskill

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Speaker 4: or upskill. So if that's the point that you're thinking,

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Speaker 4: maybe this isn't what I want to do, then the

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Speaker 4: government gives you this money to try to get a

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Speaker 4: new skill or focus.

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Speaker 3: On a new thing, so you could pivot or you

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Speaker 3: can pick like, you know, for my current job, it'd

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Speaker 3: be really useful if I knew Python. Exactly Okay, exactly true.

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Speaker 4: So the government works with the citizens to create these

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Speaker 4: opportunities for them to have that at their disposal.

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Speaker 3: Antala says there's data that pushes against the idea that

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Speaker 3: an older workforce isn't as capable as a younger one.

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Speaker 4: The IMF released a report last year that said that

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Speaker 4: somebody that was aged seventy and twenty twenty two two

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Speaker 4: has the same cognitive function as the average fifty three

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Speaker 4: year old in two thousand. We are healthier, We're taking

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Speaker 4: better care of our bodies. We're focusing on brain health,

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Speaker 4: and I think that's paying off in how our entire

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Speaker 4: body age is, including our cognitive and brain abilities.

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Speaker 3: So people are really more able to work much later

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Speaker 3: into life than they would have been otherwise.

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Speaker 4: Exactly, they say seventy is the new fifty.

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Speaker 3: What it comes down to is this retirement is not

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Speaker 3: a one size fits all model anymore, and it's certainly

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Speaker 3: not the natural next step the day you turn sixty five.

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Speaker 4: Just because we've been doing something the same way for

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Speaker 4: the last hundred years doesn't mean we should continue doing

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Speaker 4: it that way. I think it's time to maybe innovate

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Speaker 4: and come up with new ideas and solutions of how

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Speaker 4: we want to live. What we call a hundred year

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Speaker 4: life and what that could look like.

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Speaker 2: Friday we're going to be seeing a doctor and on

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Speaker 2: Saturday we'll get our eyes tested. We know what life

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Speaker 2: light when you get to our age, but that doesn't

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Speaker 2: define you what you who you are and the fun

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Speaker 2: you can have. Billy Joel, it's still rock and roll

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Speaker 2: to me. Good morning. I'm David Lloyd. This is boom

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Speaker 2: Radio UK. Thank you for joining us this morning. It

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Speaker 2: is seven days a week. It is exhausting. There are

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Speaker 2: times when I could scream, but the levels of fulfillment

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Speaker 2: are just huge. It's been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing

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Speaker 2: I've ever done in my whole life. It means that

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Speaker 2: if I die tomorrow, I've done it. You know.

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Speaker 3: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Stacey

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Speaker 3: Mannix Smith in for Sarah Holder and David Gera. To

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Speaker 3: get more from The Big Take and unlimited access to

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Speaker 3: Thank you for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,