WEBVTT - #565 Maggie Freleng with Jane Dorotik 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.200 Jane and Bob Dortik raised three kids and eventually settled 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:13.920 outside San Diego. But old issues often resurface when the 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:15.319 kids leave the nest. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.040 You know, the kids were seemingly gone quickly, almost all 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.079 at once, and it was just Bob and I. It 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:28.680 was just difficult, and we did talk about divorcing. In fact, 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:33.320 we actually filed and then decided, after living apart for 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:35.600 a short period of time, that we wanted to go 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.080 to therapy and we wanted to work this out. We 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.280 were together for thirty years. We truly loved each other 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.760 and wanted to kind of honor this new phase in 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:45.479 our lives. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.760 They managed to bounce back and reinvent themselves. Bob even 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:54.680 took up running in marathons, occasionally inviting his daughter Claire along. 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.760 To me, that was like, what incredible modeling for a parent. 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.920 You know, like this is a hill, like any hill 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.720 you might face in life, and you can make it 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:05.400 to the top. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.920 Both Jane and Bob continued to model that can do 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.360 spirit Through Valentine's Weekend two thousand. 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.679 We had a stay at home, give each other gifts, 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.840 make a little cake and a fancy meal Saturday night. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.080 The next day Bob went out for a run and 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.520 never return. And I'm the one that invited the detectives 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.640 into the house. So we don't need a search warrant. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.360 We're welcome in here and look at everything. Help us 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:34.360 find these answers. 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.560 And it appears that a witness came forward with a 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.560 lead that pointed at two unknown men. But it seems 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:43.840 the police went in a different direction. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.520 They always look at the family first. Why are we 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.440 going to work hard? We can find it all right here. 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.880 There's DNA, there's hair, there's footprints. In fact, we can 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.120 construct a whole crime scene. And we can tell you 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.080 in the the courtroom that those curtains were totally full 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.240 of blood. Guess what, there were no curtains in the bedroom. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:14.320 My name is Jane dorotic I am seventy nine years old. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.640 Now I spent twenty years in prison for a crime 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:18.720 I didn't commit. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.799 From LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.960 Freeling today. Jane doritic. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.640 I was born in Canada. My parents were both Canadian. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.320 We moved to California when I was four, Then we 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.400 moved to England for a couple of years, and then 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.440 we moved back to California. I have four siblings, all alive, 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:49.839 and both my parents are dead. 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:51.880 What did your parents do that They wound up in 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.040 England and then just did so much traveling. 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.560 My mom was a stay at home mother and wife. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:02.720 My dad was a contractor consultant for some major companies. 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.360 I can't even tell you what sort of contracting he did, 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.600 but it was supposed to be a one year term 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.119 in England and it lasted for three years. And as 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.880 a young girl, that's where my love of horses began. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:15.760 In England. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.400 Why horses, I. 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.160 Just was very attracted to them and took riding lessons, 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.240 learned a little bit about jumping and that sort of thing, 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.880 and it just was something that I dearly loved. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:30.960 Would you call yourself a horse girl? 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:33.200 Kind of? I suppose. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.200 After returning to California and finishing her schooling, Jane worked 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.800 as a registered nurse at UCLA Medical Center, which is 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.960 when she met her husband, Bob. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.160 At the time, I was working as an RN at UCLA, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.040 he was working as an engineer at Lockheed and I 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.480 was living on the beach and he happened to rent 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.440 an apartment right above mine, So that's how we met. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:03.240 He was a very kind, loving person, and he had aspirations. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.480 You know, he was very interested in the environment and 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.800 what's happening and how can we make it better? 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.080 Were you guys kind of like hippies. 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:12.400 A little bit? 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:13.960 A little bit? 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:15.120 Yeah. 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.400 They eventually settled on a horse farm in Tucson, Arizona, 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.680 where they had three children, two boys, Alex and Nick, 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:23.839 and in the middle was Claire. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:28.719 My siblings are Alex and was Nick. Nick is no 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:33.920 longer with us. Alex is let's see, eleven months older 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.719 than I am, and Nick is eight or Nick was 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:41.320 nineteen months eighteen months younger. I was blessed with two 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.599 wonderful parents. They were wonderful role models. My dad was 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.360 the one who was like, if you want something, go 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.159 after it, go get it. I'll support you. My mom 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.680 was always really supportive of my riding and wanted to 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.480 help me go in whatever direction I wanted to go 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:57.440 with the horses. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.960 I think it's particularly helpful for little girl girls to 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:07.560 get experience around horses. In this society, especially seventy years ago, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.880 women were pretty much dismissed, and I think for a 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.040 young girl to realize you have the power, you have 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.360 the ability to control such a large animal, and the 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.400 key to controlling them is not through brute force or 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:24.560 anything like that. It's through gaining trust and developing a relationship. 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.159 And I think that's something that's very important to learn, 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:31.880 and Claire totally took to it. I remember at one 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.800 point I had bought her a pony and I saw 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.679 Claire come galloping up the driveway bareback on her pony, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.840 but she was standing on the pony's back. Oh my gosh, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.680 that's what I said, Oh my gosh, I think we 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.040 should invest in some serious lessons for this little guy. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.279 She's obviously talented and has no fears. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:53.240 Wow. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.920 People say sometimes they get afraid on horses, and I 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.040 don't remember ever being afraid of you should have been. 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.760 And then as I got better, I have many experiences 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.320 of being at a horse show and somebody would come 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.520 up to me, and the judge or something'd be like, Okay, 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.240 you need to go ride with this person. You have 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.560 some talent. And so then I started writing for other 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.360 people and it just blossomed into this thing that I 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.479 was doing. And then my mom and I realized we 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.120 could take some money buying horses off the racetrack and 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.840 then selling them as jumpers, and that's actually how I 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.680 paid for college. 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.560 While raising and selling horses worked out well. Jane had 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.279 also gone back to work as a registered nurse in 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.359 the mental health space, and eventually all of the kids 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.520 went off to college, which was a major change for 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:35.200 her and Bob. 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.720 We had some difficulties, yes, and I think in retrospect, 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.200 part of it was being an empty nester, and at 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.040 some point my mother was not doing well and came 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.839 to live with us, and Bob was very invested in 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:55.279 having that happen, but it didn't work out as well, 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.080 and that was a bit of a stressor, I think, 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.479 and also at the time I was travel a lot 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.799 with my work. It was just difficult, and we did 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:11.160 talk about divorcing. In fact, we actually filed and then decided, 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.800 after living apart for a short period of time, decided 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.280 that we wanted to go to therapy and we wanted 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:18.000 to work this out. 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.000 I had been living with my mom during a time 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.440 when they had separated. She had originally moved down to 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.200 San Diego, and then they got some therapy and we're 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:27.760 doing great. 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.600 Tell me about their relationship because that played a big 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.200 part in the prosecution trying to convict your mom. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.120 Oh yeah, they fought all the time, and yeah, oh yeah, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:39.840 my mom really wanted to kill my dad. I got 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.080 a bunch of bullshit. I'm a marriage therapist, for God's sake. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.440 Everybody fights if they don't fight. Actually, as a therapist, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.680 you get a little worried because something's going on here. 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.040 We saw a good therapist. We decided we really wanted 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.760 to be together and wanted to kind of honor this 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.720 new phase in our lives and be more accepting of 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.000 this is our new phase, and there are many opportunities 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:02.360 with it. 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.760 When he died, what were you in a good place 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:05.640 in your relationship? 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.440 We were in a very good place in our relationship. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.640 Number One, we had more discretionary money than we'd ever 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.880 had in our lives. The kids were on their own, 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.440 they were doing well. I was still very invested in horses. 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.080 When we moved down to San Diego. He had started 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:26.360 his own business building horse jumps made out of PVC. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.600 Horse jumps are always heavy to move around, and most 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.480 horse people are always moving them around to change the course. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.679 PVC they're much lighter. They didn't need repainting, they didn't 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.760 deteriorate so this was an innovative thing. We were very 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.000 happy in our life. At that point. Bob was running 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.680 a lot. He had made a decision that he wanted 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.120 to run a marathon, so he was preparing for it. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.120 Yeah. Actually, my dad had always talked about running a 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.000 marathon at some point, and in high school I ranchack 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.960 and field, and then a couple of years later I 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.680 got into longer distance running, and my dad and a 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.760 friend of mine and Alex and his girlfriend at the time, 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.880 we all ran a half marathon together. And then I 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.480 picked up a brochure for a marathon in two weeks, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.640 and I said to my dad, let's go do this, 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.520 and like, you're probably supposed to train a little bit 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.439 more than two weeks for a marathon, but we were 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.319 like had momentum, so I was like, Okay, we better 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.719 go do it. And we ran that marathon together, and 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.320 that was his first and his only marathon, and I 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.800 remember him being so excited and my mom telling me 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.120 that after he came home, he must have called like 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.200 everybody in the universe to tell him that he had 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:41.439 just run this parathon. Had he lived longer, I'm sure 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.640 we would have run more marathons together. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.199 Which brings us to the weekend of Bob's death. February 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.680 twelfth and thirteenth. The couple, now in the early fifties, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.520 had enjoyed a nice Valentine's Day meal at the home 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.640 they rented, about an hour's drive northeast of San Diego 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.480 in the rural area around Lake Wolfe, California. But the 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.560 following evening, around seven forty five pm, Jane called the police, 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.679 saying that Bob had gone for a run. Around one 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.240 pm that day, well, she attended to the horses in 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.640 their barn, but when she finished up around four pm, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.000 Bob still had not returned. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.200 Before I called them, I had jumped in the truck 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.040 and gone looking because I thought, I know he had 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.720 a habit sometimes of running down the major hill, turn around, 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.800 and run right back up. It was a narrow road 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.600 with a steep fall off on one side, and sometimes 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.120 people drove crazy. So one of the things that was 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.280 in my mind is maybe he halfway leaped off the 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:44.199 road to avoid a crazy vehicle and fell and sprained 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:48.240 his ankle or something like that or worse. So as 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.360 the night went on and darkness came and he still 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.840 wasn't back, those feelings that I had just continued to grow, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.560 thinking something is really wrong here, and I called the 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.720 Sheriff's department, got directed to Search and rescue, had them 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:05.440 come out. 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.079 Jane welcomed the team into her home without a warrant, 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.040 and they took some of Bob's personal items for the 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.120 search dogs to get his scent. 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:20.000 First, they found his jogging suit jacket along the roadside 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.800 and they brought it to me probably around two o'clock 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.640 in the morning. From then I just felt heartsick. And 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.920 then when they came and told me at four forty 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.280 five in the morning that they'd found his body, there 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.920 just was this sense of disbelief. 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.360 Bob's body was found about a half mile into the 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.080 wooded area off one of his usual training trails, north 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:04.120 Lake Wolford Rode. His skull had been fractured in several places, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.160 and what was determined to be black paint had been 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.080 deposited on his skull. He also had been strangled. The 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.640 rope was still wrapped around his neck. There were also 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.160 some tire tracks near his body, and while investigators collected 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:22.240 evidence at the scene, a witness named Lisa Marie Singh 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.800 drove up and spoke with officers and news reporters. She 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.600 was shown a picture of Bob and swore that she 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.480 saw him in a pickup truck near that spot with 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.640 two other men the previous afternoon. Meanwhile, investigators sought out 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.600 leads in the Dora Tick home. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.880 Those investigators were in the house for three days and 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.320 Alex and Nick and I were all like, what, go 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.959 try to find what happened, Go figure out what like 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.920 who killed dad? Why are you still in the house, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.600 And we were feeling funny about it. And then there 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.679 was a family, the Crow family, that came to visit 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.480 us that we didn't even know. We just they contacted 0:12:58.480 --> 0:12:59.800 my mom and they're like, we got to come meet 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.200 with They sat us all down in the living room 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.200 and they said, you guys are in trouble. You get 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.960 to watch your back. And we're like, what what are 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:11.679 you talking about? And they're like, they're probably searching you out, essentially, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.160 and the Crow family, their daughter had been murdered. And 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:21.040 then those investigators took their then thirteen year old son 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.559 and interrogated him for thirty six hours until he confessed. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.800 And they're like they always look at the family first, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.439 watch out. And as I say that to you. Now, 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.400 if I said that to you after one of your 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.319 loved ones had been killed, you probably would have been like, 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.600 you're crazy, They're going to help me. No, they're not 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.720 going to help you. Are you kidding me? But we 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:43.920 were too stupid to note. 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.360 On February sixteenth, criminalist Caroline Gannett said that she felt 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.840 a wet spot in the carpet in the master bedroom, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.560 as well as seeing a red stain, so they got 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.320 a search warrant. Then Charles Merritt, an expert in blood 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.400 stain pattern analysis, a now well known junk science, sprayed 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.800 the bedroom with fluoresceine, a chemical that reacts under blue 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:12.080 light with various substances including bleach, cleaning products, oxidizers, iron, copper, rust, soil, urine, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.680 and other biological materials like semen and blood. In the home, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.360 stains fluoresced on the ceiling, a lampshade, a nightstand, the headboard, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.120 a pillow shamp, the comforter, the underside of the mattress 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.680 under a wet area on the carpet, on the ceiling 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.480 of a storage room under the master bed, as well 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.040 as a wall at the bottom of the stairs, and 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.600 they swabbed what they could to confirm whether or not 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.400 the stains were made in blood. They also found a 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.160 syringe in a waste basket that later tested positive for 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.360 animal tranquilizer. The syringe also had a stain, along with 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.800 Jane's fingerprint, all of which Jane tried to explain. Both 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.800 family dogs had recently been treated by a vet, one 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.560 for an abscess and the other a torn dew claw, 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.640 and then Bob had a nosebleed. 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.600 Initially, they said would I take a light at test 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.680 when we were still in the house, and I said yes, 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.720 of course, And when I got in the detective's car, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.880 they had someone pat me down, and I remember sitting 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.080 in the car saying to the detective, do I need 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.480 an attorney here? And the detective, of course said I 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:21.400 can't advise you on that, and I immediately said I 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:26.280 need an attorney. After they arrested me, I switched from 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.720 processing Bob's death to survival mode for myself. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.080 Their theory was that Bob had not gone jogging at all, 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.440 and that as early as Saturday night, Jane had bludgeoned 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.360 Bob with a fire poker. We supposed to account for 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.520 the black paint, and then they believed she strangled him, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.360 after which she dressed him in his running gear, dragged 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.520 him out to the Ford F two fifty pick a truck, 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.920 and drove a half a mile into the woods off 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.760 North Lake Wolford Road to where his body was discovered. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.960 First of all, physically, my mom has a broken hid. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.440 She was probably like, I don't know, fifty sixty pounds overweight, 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.960 not active at all. I don't know what my dad weigh. 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:08.880 Let's say he weigh one hundred and seventy pounds. No 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.120 way she can be able to drag him down a 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.280 set of stairs and into the back of a truck. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.480 I mean, that's just not happening. Also, my mom has 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:22.120 never demonstrated any anger or any desire whatsoever to hurt 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:27.000 humans or animals. It's not in her nature. But Alex 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.480 nick Dan thought it was in massive denial with my mom. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.960 In a case with only circumstantial evidence, the preponderance of 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.120 items without explanation can appear to paint a picture of guilt, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.280 like the tire tracks near the body being consistent with 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.720 a Ford F two fifty, the syringe in the wastebasket 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.520 with a potential blood stain, and Jane's fingerprint and all 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.680 of these stains in the bedroom that might have been 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.240 Bob's blood. However, the state was not able to match 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.960 the tire tracks to the specific characteristics of Jane's tires. 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.120 There were no traces of animal tranquilizer in Bob's body. 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.720 And then the biological testing wasn't going as the investigators 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:07.480 thought it would. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.920 They told my sons that the bedroom was a crime scene, 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.440 that the fire poker was the murder weapon. Even though 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.520 the fire poker they sent out for testing three different 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.920 times to try and find some blood or DNA or 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.400 something on it, never found it, and they had opportunity 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.280 to correct that assumption. And then in my trial they 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.560 said it was a hammer, but they never found a hammer. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.679 Additionally, the prosecution had represented to Alex and Nick and 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.560 later the jury that all of the stains had been 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.639 tested for DNA and all of it was Bob's blood, 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:45.840 but that wasn't true and it wasn't discovered for years. Sadly, 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.160 their trust in law enforcement broke their faith in their 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.760 own mother. So Claire was the only one visiting Jane 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.159 in pre trial detention where they'd discuss the strategy of 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:57.000 defense counsel. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.679 Claire came regularly to visit and she said, a, Mom, 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.760 they want you to go along with this plan. They're 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.000 going to come and tell you about it, and please. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.040 They say, if you go along with this plan, you 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.560 will not be convicted. I remember at the time having 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.600 a bit of a funny feeling about it, but I 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.240 was horrified to learn how they had presented the plan 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.040 to her. In other words, how much do you love 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:21.520 your mom? 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.679 The plan was to point to Claire and their farm 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.800 hand Lionel Morales, as a team of alternate suspects. Lionel 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.439 Chevy S ten pickup was already being compared to the 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.760 tire marks at the dump site, and at a pre 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.640 trial hearing, both asserted their Fifth Amendment right to silence, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.480 which gave the appearance of guilt and potentially just enough 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:46.440 reasonable doubt to overcome the circumstantial evidence. However, the judge 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.280 would not allow them to testify at the actual trial. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.160 But the damage to Claire's relationship with Alex and Nick 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:55.959 may never be undone. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.720 So the private investigator says to me, it's our job 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.919 to get your mom off, but if we fuck up 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.600 your family in the process, that's your job to fix. 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.639 I wish I had stuck with my original plan of 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.560 just dumping him and getting a new attorney, But at 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.520 that point I had already spent over six figures on 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.159 him representing me. 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.879 You had felt though, that he wasn't doing a good job. 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.080 Yeah, I felt like he wasn't investigating enough. There were 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.879 other leads, and it was disconcerting to me that the 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.240 investigator would say, who's this person? And I felt like, 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.440 that's your job to know. I don't even recognize that name. 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.760 It was a witness who had called in saying he 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:35.200 had seen Bob out jogging. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.080 It was important that the defense build a new alternate 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.920 suspect theory, as they did with Lisa Marie Singh, since 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.719 their plan with Claire pleading the fifth hadn't panned out. Plus, 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.280 the state's tire mark expert claimed that Lionel Morales's Chevy 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.159 S ten could not have made all four tire tracks 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.320 in the woods. Continuing on that, he claimed that the 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.840 tire marks were consistent with a Ford F two fifties tires, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.160 but was not able to go as far as saying 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:04.080 that they matched the specific details of Jane's tires and 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:08.760 the circumstantial evidence continued including the couple's marital troubles, their 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.600 life insurance policies, that the ropes in their house were 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.439 consistent with the rope found around Bob's neck, and that 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.359 there were multiple stains in their bedroom and home that 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:20.439 the state claimed were blood, much of which came in 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.920 through a stipulation agreed to by the defense. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.840 A stipulation means you agree to what the prosecution to what. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.560 The DA's office is already contending that the bedroom was 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.600 a crime scene, and I said, just not possible. I 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.080 know you found some blood in the bedroom, but I'm 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.160 the one that told you Bob had a nose bleed 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:39.640 in there. 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.880 Additionally, both of her dogs were recently treated by a vet, 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.600 one for an abscess and the other for a torn 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.480 dew claw, all of which can explain the presence of 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.080 that syringe and some of the stains that appeared to 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.200 be pooled blood lake on the underside of the mattress 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.119 or the carpet. The stipulation also stated that Bob's DNA 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:00.200 was found on the carpet, on a wall at the 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.600 bottom of the stairs leading up to the door, in 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:06.120 a storage area under the bedroom, and on a bottle 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:08.840 of cleaning fluid, to which I think it needs to 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:13.280 be said, why wouldn't Bob's DNA be in his own 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:18.440 home on these things? But I digress. Then the blood 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:23.320 stain pattern. Analyst Charles Merritt testified about impact spatter, which 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.320 just means that the blood was flung rather than dripped. 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.400 Yet Merritt used these stains to confidently tell the jury 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.040 what he imagined happened, not what he could scientifically prove, 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.400 including how many times Bob was struck in the bedroom 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.440 with what they said at trial was an unidentified hammer. 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:46.920 So here's this criminalist saying, there's all of these spots 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.800 of blood in the master bedroom. You know, I don't 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.800 blame the jury originally for convicting me, because they were 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:57.119 told by the prosecution that everything was absolutely tested and 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:02.320