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Speaker 1: Welcome to a special edition of Playmakers Were Today we

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Speaker 1: are talking hard Knocks with Shannon Furman, who is a

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Speaker 1: senior producer for NFL Films and also a director on

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Speaker 1: the show. So, Shannon, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 1: me today, No problem, thanks for having me. Congratulations on

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Speaker 1: a great first episode. It was so exciting to watch

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Speaker 1: this year though kind of crazy, and you've been working

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Speaker 1: on this show pretty much sentence inception, but this year

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Speaker 1: two teams, one, Pandemic zero preseason games. What has the

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Speaker 1: planning for this show been like this season? It literally

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Speaker 1: changes every single day. So we've been working on just

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Speaker 1: like scheduling and everything for this since I mean since March,

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Speaker 1: since like our office closed for a few weeks and

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Speaker 1: we didn't know what was going to happen. We started

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Speaker 1: planning for it and it literally changes almost every single day.

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Speaker 1: It feels like we're in a good groove right now,

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Speaker 1: but practices again are going to be changing. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: be going. It's Phase two started today and then they'll

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Speaker 1: be heading to another field on Friday. So it's literally

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Speaker 1: getting used to something different every single day. So everyone's

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Speaker 1: been great so far. We just need to kind of

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Speaker 1: stay on our toes and taking it one day at

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Speaker 1: a time. Yeah, adaptability, right, Yeah, totally definitely different than

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Speaker 1: any hard knocks we've ever done. Yeah, and part of

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Speaker 1: that this year too, Like we said no preseason games,

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Speaker 1: which are usually such a huge part of this show's storylines.

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Speaker 1: How does that maybe affect how you're approaching this show

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Speaker 1: this season? It was definitely a blessing in disguise that

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Speaker 1: we have two teams this year. I think at first

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Speaker 1: we were like, how are we going to do? This

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Speaker 1: is forty minutes of the show going to be games?

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Speaker 1: Because it was always going to be two teams. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't we didn't like do two teams because of the

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Speaker 1: pandemic or anything. We knew it was going to be

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Speaker 1: these two teams, like basically because it was all around

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Speaker 1: the stadium being built and stuff like that. So at

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Speaker 1: first it was kind of like, how will we cut

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Speaker 1: these games? Will we intercut games? And then when we

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Speaker 1: found out, like as time went on and we've realized

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Speaker 1: there might not be games, we were like, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is probably a good thing that we have two teams.

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Speaker 1: I think that what we'll have to do is similar

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Speaker 1: to like what the coaches are going to have to

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Speaker 1: do with like creating different situations to have climaxes in

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Speaker 1: the show since we don't have those games, so every

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Speaker 1: time when they put on pads will be it's always

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Speaker 1: kind of a big deal. It's going to be a

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Speaker 1: really big deal this year. This year, there's things that

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Speaker 1: we've been looking at, like even like Chris Harris and

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Speaker 1: Keenan Allen, two guys who were rivals for years, like

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Speaker 1: building up things like that to moments where they actually

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Speaker 1: get to go against each other in practice as more

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Speaker 1: of a moment, a bigger deal than we would have

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Speaker 1: in previous years. So I just think like going from

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Speaker 1: each step, like from transitioning through the walkthroughs to Phase

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Speaker 1: two then to pads, like all of those moments are

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Speaker 1: going to be bigger. When the team finally gets to

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Speaker 1: go to SOFI, that will be a really big deal.

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Speaker 1: So we're just gonna have to look for different moments

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Speaker 1: to make those big moments in the show. What it

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Speaker 1: does the breakdown of crews look like this year And

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Speaker 1: what kind of accommodations did you guys have to make

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Speaker 1: to adjust to the NFL's COVID protocols. Yeah, we so

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Speaker 1: we basically have been saying we're operating at about one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent, so seventy five percent at each camp.

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Speaker 1: In a normal year, we'd have around forty people on

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Speaker 1: site if we were doing one team, So this year

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Speaker 1: we have about twenty six people at each camp. So

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Speaker 1: the Rams have their own separate crew from what the

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Speaker 1: Chargers have, and it's been going pretty well. I think

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Speaker 1: like we have thirteen people that are in Tier two,

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Speaker 1: so they're doing The NFL has these different tiers where

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Speaker 1: it can be like within six feet of the players,

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Speaker 1: So we had to petition the NFLPA to get thirteen

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Speaker 1: members of our crew in Tier two. That was kind

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Speaker 1: of what we decided. We absolutely had to have to

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Speaker 1: make the show work. So the directors are pas. This

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Speaker 1: year we have to carry lenses and batteries and do

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Speaker 1: all of those things. I feel bad for our pas

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Speaker 1: because they're great and they don't to do as much,

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Speaker 1: but we're still finding ways to have them help out.

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Speaker 1: They actually, if you're at Chart if you ever come

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Speaker 1: to the Chargers building, you'll see that they're sitting outside

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Speaker 1: the gate and we have them stuff with monitors. They

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Speaker 1: could take notes and things like that for us. But

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Speaker 1: so we do have thirteen people within Tier two, So

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Speaker 1: the NFLPA, we were fortunate a lot of those guys

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Speaker 1: that were on that committee had been part of this

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Speaker 1: show before, so they kind of knew how we worked

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Speaker 1: and they allowed us to have those thirteen members to

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Speaker 1: make this show possible at both camps, which was kind

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Speaker 1: of huge form not kind of it. Yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: huge for making the show happen this year. So that's

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing probably that we needed to make happen.

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Speaker 1: It happened, and now we can do our knocks, which

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Speaker 1: is great. So the biggest thing that came out of

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Speaker 1: episode one for me for the Chargers was finding out

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Speaker 1: that head coach Anthony Lynn had tested positive for COVID.

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Speaker 1: How are you guys this You're sort of balancing that

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Speaker 1: fine line of showing the football stuff and all the

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Speaker 1: great things that we know hard knocks to be with

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Speaker 1: also still paying attention to this pandemic that's happening in

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Speaker 1: the country. I think that was important in episode one

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Speaker 1: to really show people how like kind of what we're

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Speaker 1: saying is like we're showing America how to go back

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Speaker 1: to work and what the NFL is doing and how

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Speaker 1: serious they're taking it and it is working well at

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Speaker 1: this point. So I know when the show was over,

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Speaker 1: like we have sixty minutes of content time with HBO, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and it's very rare that when they send me the

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Speaker 1: show on Sunday night, it's over, and I think I

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Speaker 1: got it at like sixty three minutes. And the things

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Speaker 1: that were taken out were a lot of the things

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Speaker 1: that were more like fun away from the field stuff,

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Speaker 1: and they said they're gonna save that for next week

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Speaker 1: because they just really wanted to concentrate on what everyone's

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Speaker 1: going through right now. So really the only things you

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Speaker 1: saw away from the field were the two coaches. Other

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Speaker 1: than that, it was a lot of the test saying

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Speaker 1: it was a lot of COVID in the first episode.

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Speaker 1: So I think the other episodes, it'll obviously still touch

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Speaker 1: on it, but you'll probably I think the plan is

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Speaker 1: to get back to football more in the next four episodes.

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Speaker 1: This shows in its fifteenth season what makes it so

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Speaker 1: compelling year in and year out for both football fans

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Speaker 1: and fans who just enjoy the entertainment of it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it takes you into a place where you

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Speaker 1: can't go. It's just I mean, we're not in locker

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Speaker 1: rooms this year, we could be. We have we have

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Speaker 1: iPhones and things like that that we're planning on maybe

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Speaker 1: giving the guys to go into the areas we're not

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Speaker 1: allowed in this year. But it just and it's for

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Speaker 1: everyone too, Like people like my mom can watch it,

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Speaker 1: a hardcore football fan can watch it, or someone who's

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Speaker 1: never watched football before in their life can watch it,

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Speaker 1: and it's for everybody. So I think it just takes

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Speaker 1: you kind of into an area where you don't get

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Speaker 1: to go very often and or at all except for

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Speaker 1: this time of year. And then there's always new personalities.

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Speaker 1: So even though it's the same basic concept for the show,

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Speaker 1: every team is so different. I mean even the RAMS.

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Speaker 1: We did the RAMS in twenty sixteen. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: think there's only nine people total from staff and roster

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Speaker 1: that are still there and it's just like four or

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Speaker 1: five years later. So what is the key to building

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Speaker 1: trust to share those stories from the players, the coaches,

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Speaker 1: the staff members and really showcase those highs and lows

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Speaker 1: that happened during this time of year. That's one of

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Speaker 1: the hard things this year is because we can't talk

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Speaker 1: to the players as much as we would in a

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Speaker 1: normal year. I mean, like last year, just an example

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Speaker 1: is Darren Waller's story from The Raiders. He's a recovering addict,

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Speaker 1: and for me it was really important. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: tell his story, but I didn't want to just get

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Speaker 1: there and be like, oh, hey, like let's just so

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Speaker 1: I you know, the first day of camp, I like

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Speaker 1: introduced myself and like I tried to build a relationship

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Speaker 1: with him so that he did trust us and didn't

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Speaker 1: think it was just all about that. And for me,

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Speaker 1: that's probably one of the most rewarding stories I've been

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Speaker 1: able to tell as a part of Hard Knocks. So

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Speaker 1: this year, we can't talk to the guys quite as much,

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Speaker 1: but UM Chargers pr was really good about getting us

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Speaker 1: in touch with some of the guys via zoom ahead

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Speaker 1: of time so we could just explain who we are

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Speaker 1: and what we do. So that that was definitely really

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Speaker 1: help really helpful this year. But um, I think like

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Speaker 1: we normally get to like we schedule the wires and

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Speaker 1: stuff for practice, and this year we're not doing that

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Speaker 1: part of it here because of the rules obviously, but

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Speaker 1: you know, so it's a little bit different, but we're

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Speaker 1: making we're making do and we have a we have

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Speaker 1: a couple of things scheduled for this weekend with the guys,

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Speaker 1: but it'll be nice to hopefully get back to me

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Speaker 1: how again at some point, at some point, Yes, so

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Speaker 1: getting to you a little bit. You are a broadcast

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Speaker 1: journalism major at Penn State. I had heard on a

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Speaker 1: podcast you graduated college, you sent your real out, but

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Speaker 1: no one bit. But you ended up getting an interview

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Speaker 1: with NFL Films and pretty much the rest is history

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Speaker 1: from there. But what do you really love about working

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Speaker 1: behind the camera. Yeah, it's kind of crazy because when

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Speaker 1: I was in college, I thought I was going to

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Speaker 1: be like I thought i'd be like the local anchor

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Speaker 1: on the like sports from the news. So sent my

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Speaker 1: resume a bunch of places, small town type places, and

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Speaker 1: I had a job in marketing right out of college.

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Speaker 1: After like six months, I really missed the production aspect

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Speaker 1: of everything, and I did. I started my own business

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Speaker 1: doing like high school highlight tapes and things like that,

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Speaker 1: and put myself in some credit card debt and it

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Speaker 1: was like four months later. It was pretty quick actually,

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Speaker 1: because I like never used that equipment again. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: it was my brother's ice hockey team where one of

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Speaker 1: the fathers I made a highlight and one of the

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Speaker 1: fathers knew a producer NFL Films and passed my resume

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Speaker 1: along and like it happened really quick. It was kind

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Speaker 1: of crazy. It was surreal, to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I've been at films now. This is my

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Speaker 1: seventeenth season that we're heading into here, which is crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but incredible. Yeah, I like, honestly, now, it's funny because

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Speaker 1: I get nervous doing stuff like this, like being in

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Speaker 1: front of the camera, because I've been behind the camera

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Speaker 1: for so long after thinking for so many years that

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Speaker 1: that was what I wanted to do. So I always say,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing my job at films if you don't see me,

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Speaker 1: even though you've got me in two shots last night

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Speaker 1: in the show. It's like an offensive lineman. Like the

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Speaker 1: best job is when you don't hear their name or

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Speaker 1: number being called during a game exactly. So you work

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Speaker 1: on shows, you've worked on games, you've worked multiple Super Bowls.

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Speaker 1: What's a career highlight for you? Oh, that's a good question.

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Speaker 1: I mean I do. I love all the hard knocks.

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Speaker 1: Like I said that telling Darren's story was awesome. Probably

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Speaker 1: I did Brendan Marshall's Football Life, which had a lot

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Speaker 1: to do with mental health, and I thought that that

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Speaker 1: that was really kind of great. It started off like

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Speaker 1: it was just going to be a feature, and when

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Speaker 1: we started talking to him, we realized there was so

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Speaker 1: much more there and it got and it was an

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Speaker 1: interesting thing because at the time, we had never really

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Speaker 1: done a current player for that series. It was all

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Speaker 1: one pass players, or we did do like ray Lewis,

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Speaker 1: like during his final season or what was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be his final season, So it was a different format

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Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a very rewarding project

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Speaker 1: for me. I think that was back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and twelve. Another highlight was probably I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: put a ton of stock in the Emmy's because it's

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Speaker 1: just you never know what's going to happen. But winning

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Speaker 1: the Emmy for Texans Hard Knocks, which was the first

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Speaker 1: one I was a part of in the field, was

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Speaker 1: pretty cool. Like we hadn't won in a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: It had been a long time since we had won,

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Speaker 1: and it was a new group of people that kind

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Speaker 1: of came together to direct the show that year. But

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Speaker 1: like you can never Like I said, you can't expect

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Speaker 1: to win anything, but we kind of did that night.

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Speaker 1: We did expect to win and we would not have

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Speaker 1: been happy if we had it. So winning that was

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Speaker 1: pretty cool with that group of people. Why is it

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Speaker 1: so important for you? You Like you talk about Darren Waller,

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Speaker 1: you talk about Brandon Marshall, guys showcasing their stories off

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Speaker 1: the field, things that they go through. Why is something

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Speaker 1: like that really important to you and being able to

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Speaker 1: relate that to other people as well? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that's why I love my job. I think that's

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Speaker 1: my favorite part about my job. A lot Like I

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Speaker 1: what coming out of college, I kind of debated, like

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Speaker 1: is this what I want to do? Will it ever

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Speaker 1: be the same? Again? A lot of the people I

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Speaker 1: get to tell their stories like they're like my friends.

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Speaker 1: There are people that I've known well, Like if I

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Speaker 1: go on to do this, like, will it be the same?

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Speaker 1: Like I don't want to. I didn't want to be

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Speaker 1: a journalist necessarily. I wanted to tell stories. So NFL

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Speaker 1: Films is honestly like the perfect place for me. It's

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Speaker 1: a place where I get to do that and where

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Speaker 1: a lot of these guys have become my friends, Like

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Speaker 1: I get to know them and I get to tell

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Speaker 1: their stories. I get to see them like grow and

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Speaker 1: stuff through their careers. So that that's my favorite part

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Speaker 1: of what I do. It's cut even in this role

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Speaker 1: as director, there's like a lot of logistical stuff that

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Speaker 1: comes with that. But and when I was the assistant

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Speaker 1: director on the show, I could concentrate solely on like

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Speaker 1: that was my main responsibility was just getting me off

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Speaker 1: the field shoots, building the relationships and stuff. So I

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Speaker 1: have an assistant director with me who he's taken on

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Speaker 1: a lot of the logistical stuff that I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do, so I can still do that role that

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Speaker 1: I used to do as the AD. So yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's what I love doing about my job. And I

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Speaker 1: mean even I was going to say this before, Coach Lynn,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of this has come from I've

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Speaker 1: known him since twenty ten. It's hard Knocks, so I

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Speaker 1: built a relationship with him in twenty and ten, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of think a lot of this is happening

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Speaker 1: now because of that relationship we've had for ten years,

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Speaker 1: which is so much great. You know, it's a great

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Speaker 1: testament to you and what you were able to do

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Speaker 1: and for him too to go on and have the

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Speaker 1: success that he's had now as a head coach. For sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's awesome to see we're all ready for him. Everybody

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Speaker 1: on this crew was a fan of his from day one,

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Speaker 1: and everybody kind of was like, this guy's really great,

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Speaker 1: Like I think last night just reading Twitter and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Not that I read Twitter, but the comments a little bit.

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Speaker 1: But it was really cool to see like how everyone

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Speaker 1: um kind of like whateverone thought of him afterwards, because

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Speaker 1: we were really excited about making showing him how we

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Speaker 1: see him. So it was kind of cool to see that. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: we talk a lot about challenges that women face in

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Speaker 1: this industry, but let's flip it and maybe talk about

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Speaker 1: some advantages that you've realized as a woman in this field.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I like that you asked me that because

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times I get the

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Speaker 1: question of like the opposite question and for me, like,

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Speaker 1: it hasn't it hasn't been like I haven't had a

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Speaker 1: negative experience really that way, Like, um, I don't ever

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Speaker 1: look at it as like on a female in this

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Speaker 1: like I always look at everybody as my peer and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I don't really see that when I look around. But

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Speaker 1: I do you think the stuff we've been talking about,

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Speaker 1: the building relationships and things like that, I think that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm good at, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: times women might be a little bit better at that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it sometimes just comes with it. Yes, I think

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Speaker 1: I think you can there's a level of trust you

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Speaker 1: can build, maybe a little faster, especially in this window

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Speaker 1: of time, like we have five to six weeks to convince,

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Speaker 1: like um in Tampa Bay with Mike Evans, I mean,

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Speaker 1: he has a very I don't even know the word.

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Speaker 1: His backstory is crazy, Like for Mike to have come

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Speaker 1: from where he came from and be the man he

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Speaker 1: is now is nuts. But it took me five weeks

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Speaker 1: to get him to tell me that story. He trusted

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Speaker 1: us and we had and he did the show and

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Speaker 1: real time and all that, But I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: tell his story and what he's overcome and I wish

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Speaker 1: we could have done it in show three so that

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Speaker 1: everyone could have kept rooting for him. But he finally

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Speaker 1: let me for show five, which was great, so people

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Speaker 1: could root for him for the rest of the season.

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Speaker 1: Who didn't know. But I do think we have an

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Speaker 1: advantage at women, at getting people to trust us maybe

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Speaker 1: a little bit quicker and being able to tell their story.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and I love the group of like women

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Speaker 1: we have on the show, just even how much we

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Speaker 1: can like there are less of us so can be

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Speaker 1: better mentors and stuff and more focused on that. So

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Speaker 1: I'm fortunate to have. There's seven of us total. I

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Speaker 1: think here seven out of twenty six people are females

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Speaker 1: on my crew right now, which is awesome. How many

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Speaker 1: were there when you first started on the show. It's

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Speaker 1: a good question. There was probably like maybe out of

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Speaker 1: like forty of us, like probably four. There's another female

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Speaker 1: who is the ad over with the RAMS right now,

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Speaker 1: and she's been doing this for the past eight years,

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Speaker 1: so her and I have always been together since I

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Speaker 1: started doing this show. We have a female camera operator

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Speaker 1: who has been at films. I believe this is her

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Speaker 1: sixth season now, so I think at my first Hard Knocks,

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Speaker 1: I don't think she was at Houston. I think she

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Speaker 1: was at LA was her first one RAMS in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: and then we've always had. We have a female project

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Speaker 1: manager also who's been around for a long time, but

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Speaker 1: it was probably four or five people on a crew

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Speaker 1: of forty. It's good to see. So yeah, twenty six. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I was going to ask, like, what is it

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Speaker 1: like to see those opportunities arise for women and more,

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Speaker 1: you know, and technically relatively a short amount of time. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's awesome. I mean I'm a proponent of like, I

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Speaker 1: really want the best person from the job. So for me,

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Speaker 1: seeing these seven women come in and all be really

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Speaker 1: really good at their jobs, that's what makes me happy.

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Speaker 1: And everyone has a really different role. So we're all

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Speaker 1: I have two feet, there's me and then my one

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Speaker 1: of my ads as a female. We have a project manager,

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Speaker 1: we have a media manager, we have our equipment manager

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Speaker 1: as a female. So it's like everyone has a different role.

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Speaker 1: We're all like all over the place. So it's pretty

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Speaker 1: cool to just be able to see the wide variety

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Speaker 1: of things women can do. What advice would you give

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Speaker 1: to when wanting to get into your field. I just

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Speaker 1: think networking is so important any like if you even

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Speaker 1: if once you're in the door, you just want to

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Speaker 1: meet as many people as you can possibly meet because

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Speaker 1: you don't know when that's going to help you at

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Speaker 1: some point in time. So I'm a Penn State grad

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Speaker 1: and I go back and I speak to the students

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Speaker 1: there often, and I like Pence it we're all crazy,

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Speaker 1: Like we're our alumni association is crazy. So I tell them,

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Speaker 1: if you meet a Penn Stater, just connect with them.

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Speaker 1: But more than that, just and anybody like you want

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Speaker 1: to keep these contacts that you're meeting because you never

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Speaker 1: know when it can come up again. And especially in

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Speaker 1: this field, the more people you know, the better it'll

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Speaker 1: be for you. And it's such a small world, it

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Speaker 1: really is, especially in the NFL. Yes, absolutely. And then lastly, Shannon,

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Speaker 1: we know it's a week to week league. This show,

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Speaker 1: same vibe pretty much over these next four weeks. How

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Speaker 1: much have you thought about what we're going to see

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Speaker 1: for the next show and can you maybe tip us

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Speaker 1: off as to anything we might see? Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's the way this show goes. So when we shoot

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Speaker 1: show on, I mean we've been here since July nineteenth, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's like a lot of days of shooting go

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Speaker 1: into show one. So a lot of times heading into

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Speaker 1: show too, some stuff is already in the can, like

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Speaker 1: it's already been done. So we're hoping that next week

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Speaker 1: there's more football stories. There's some veteran introductions that weren't

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Speaker 1: in this show this week. I think we only introduced

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Speaker 1: like five characters this past week because we really wanted

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Speaker 1: to go through the protocols thoroughly and stuff. So I

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Speaker 1: think you'll meet some more veteran characters next week, and

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Speaker 1: the football will keep getting better each week because it's happening. Yes,

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Speaker 1: because that's exactly what's going on. You know, the people

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Speaker 1: I saw being like, oh, there was no football on

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Speaker 1: the show. There's not much football that has happened, So

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Speaker 1: stay tuned because pads are cuting on in about a

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Speaker 1: week and guys, you're getting kicked off from there exactly. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. We really

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Speaker 1: appreciate it, and good luck the rest of the season.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.