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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever

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Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to

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Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as we, of

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Speaker 1: course break down the psychology of our twenties today, we

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Speaker 1: are diving into fascinating, increasingly prevalent aspect of modern life.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about parasocial relationships. You might be thinking, what

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Speaker 1: in the world is a para social relationship? I can

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Speaker 1: almost guarantee that you've experienced one. Have you ever felt

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Speaker 1: a very strong connection to a YouTuber or a podcaster

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Speaker 1: whose voice you hear every week? Do you follow a

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Speaker 1: specific celebrity on Instagram and are really invested in their relationship,

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Speaker 1: in their friendships, in what they're doing personally? Do you

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Speaker 1: find yourself genuinely happy or deeply sad based on what's

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Speaker 1: happening in a fictional character's life from a TV show

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Speaker 1: or from a book. Is there a musician you admire

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Speaker 1: or someone you admire who you have been following for years,

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Speaker 1: and their struggles and their triumphs feel like your own.

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Speaker 1: If you answered yes to any of those questions, congratulations,

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Speaker 1: you have been in a parasocial relationship. A parasocial relationship

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Speaker 1: is essentially a one sided bond that we form with

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Speaker 1: media figures, celebrities, fictional characters, even online influences. And in

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Speaker 1: our twenties, this phenomena is particularly amplified. We are often

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Speaker 1: very immersed in digital media. We are constantly consuming content.

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Speaker 1: We are also really trying to find connection. So these

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Speaker 1: seemingly safe and accessible connections that we have with fake

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Speaker 1: versions of people that we see online are incredibly potent

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Speaker 1: and meaningful. And it might sound a little bit abstract,

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Speaker 1: like how can you have a relationship with someone that

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Speaker 1: you've never met, But there is a lot of psychology

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Speaker 1: that proves that the feelings that we feel towards the

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Speaker 1: celebrity figure are incredibly real. The excitement, the disappointment, the sadness,

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Speaker 1: the grief, whatever it is that we feel towards someone

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Speaker 1: in a public eye is felt deeply in our bodies

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Speaker 1: and in our minds and in our brains. Sometimes this

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Speaker 1: can even go very very far starting to stalk a celebrity.

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Speaker 1: We see examples of people who meet a famous singer

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Speaker 1: and they touch them and they grab them because to

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Speaker 1: them this person is familiar, but to the singer they

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Speaker 1: are a stranger. We forget that. Think of like all

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Speaker 1: these instances recently that have been happening with celebrities like

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Speaker 1: Chapel Rone and Doja Cat. All of those examples come

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Speaker 1: from it, or derived from a parasocial connection that fans

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Speaker 1: have with the people that they support. So we are

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Speaker 1: going to explore what exactly is going on there, what's

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Speaker 1: happening in our brains when we form these seemingly non

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Speaker 1: reciprocal bonds. How does social media really supercharge these connections,

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Speaker 1: How online personalities make you fall in love with them

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Speaker 1: and make you connect with them from a psychological perspective,

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Speaker 1: and why these relationships are often a form of escapism.

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Speaker 1: I also want to talk about my own parasocial bonds.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have relationships, relationships like these, if that's

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Speaker 1: what we want to call them, and there's no shame here.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you some insights into my own

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Speaker 1: parasocial tendencies, the celebrities that I may worship and follow

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Speaker 1: just so that we can be at all we can

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Speaker 1: have a really honest discussion around why this happens. It's

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Speaker 1: so interesting, it's so fascinating, it is very much real.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into the psychology of

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Speaker 1: parasocial relationships. We have to begin by truly understanding what

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Speaker 1: this relationship actually is, because it's not like a normal relationship,

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Speaker 1: is it. Obviously it's a parasocial one. So this term

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Speaker 1: parasocial relationship, it wasn't just pulled out of thin air.

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Speaker 1: It was specifically coined back in the nineteen fifties by

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Speaker 1: two pioneering sociologists, Donald Horton and Richard Woll. It's really

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Speaker 1: important to remember their names because they are the ones

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Speaker 1: who really founded this whole idea, and they wrote this

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Speaker 1: really influential paper. It was called Mass Communication and Parasocial

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Speaker 1: Interaction Observations on Intimacy at a Distance. And they were

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Speaker 1: writing this paper. They were doing this research at a

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Speaker 1: time when the media landscape was like rapidly changing. Television

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Speaker 1: was like a relatively new phenomenon. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: were only just starting to get TVs into their homes.

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Speaker 1: People were getting hooked, you know, they never viewed or

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Speaker 1: engaged with people this way, you know, through a screen.

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Speaker 1: And these researchers were meticulous, like meticulously observing how this

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Speaker 1: was influencing our social minds, kind of out of fear,

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Speaker 1: fear that it was changing who we are, who we

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Speaker 1: were as creatures. I feel like that fear often comes

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Speaker 1: with the introduction of any kind of new technology. And

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Speaker 1: as they were doing this research, they noticed a very

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Speaker 1: curious pattern. Viewers weren't just passively consuming content. They were,

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Speaker 1: in a sense engaging with TV personalities, news anchors, talk

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Speaker 1: show hosts, actors, and they were engaging with them emotionally

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Speaker 1: in a way that really mimicked real life social interactions.

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Speaker 1: Even though the audience obviously couldn't physically respond and they

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Speaker 1: weren't being acknowledged, they would still instinctively not along. They

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Speaker 1: would smile, they would laugh, They would genuinely feel like

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Speaker 1: they were having a personal interaction with the person on screen.

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Speaker 1: They would even start bringing up characters or news anchors

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Speaker 1: names in conversations with family and friends, just like they

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Speaker 1: were another person they knew, like, oh did you see

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Speaker 1: that doctor Phil got a new haircut? Oh did you

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Speaker 1: see that you know Nancy her boyfriend broke up with her.

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Speaker 1: They'd never met these people. All they knew about them

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Speaker 1: was from TV, a TV channel that thousands millions of

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Speaker 1: others were watching, and yet they couldn't help themselves. So

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Speaker 1: these researchers described this as a very intimate personal connection

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Speaker 1: that did not have two way reciprocity, a one sided relationship.

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Speaker 1: It was a relationship that existed parallel to social interaction.

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Speaker 1: You could see interaction between them and someone else taking place,

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Speaker 1: you could imagine interacting with them, but it wasn't actually occurring,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the term para social came from. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about some of the core characteristics that define these

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Speaker 1: relationships and how to tell if you kind of may

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Speaker 1: or may not have one. Parasocial relationships are always one sided, always,

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Speaker 1: but they are also incredibly emotionally engrossing. So this is

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Speaker 1: arguably the most critical and defining characteristic. In a genuine

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Speaker 1: friendship or with a genuine person that you care about

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Speaker 1: and you love, there's mutual recognition and interaction. However, in

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Speaker 1: a parasocial relationship, the media figure has no personal knowledge

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Speaker 1: of you. Whatsoever you know about them, their life, their thoughts,

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Speaker 1: their preferences, they have no awareness of your existence, and

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Speaker 1: that feels very, very hard to grasp. This fundamental asymmetry

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Speaker 1: is what sets these relationships apart from traditional social bonds.

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Speaker 1: They also have a real powerful illusion of intimacy. So

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Speaker 1: despite the lack of direct interaction, often there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of information about this person that is accessible. Either they

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Speaker 1: have made it accessible or you know, certain news sites

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Speaker 1: or tabloid magazines have made it accessible. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: you know someone like Taylor Swift, like people constantly talk

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Speaker 1: about her dating life, and so you have this level

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Speaker 1: of information about her that you wouldn't normally have about

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Speaker 1: a stranger. But you also know that you don't actually

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Speaker 1: know her. It's just that this level of information blows

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Speaker 1: the lines and it feels like you know all these

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Speaker 1: intimate things and so they are known by you. It

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Speaker 1: can almost sound like you know, you're on the receiving

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Speaker 1: end of this media figure confiding in you. You know

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Speaker 1: all these things about their life, stuff that you would

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Speaker 1: only know about someone if you were close to them,

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Speaker 1: and yet you're not. Our brain kind of gets confused.

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Speaker 1: This emotional resi it's not superficial, like it is very real,

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Speaker 1: and it fosters loyalty and protectiveness. So this is another

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Speaker 1: part about a parasocial relationship that people rarely talk about,

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Speaker 1: is the sense of loyalty, the fact that you would

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Speaker 1: defend them to the ends of the earth, the fact

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Speaker 1: that you are offended if someone else criticizes them even

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Speaker 1: though you don't know them, even though they don't know you.

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Speaker 1: Because of this illusion of intimacy, and it is an illusion,

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Speaker 1: there's also a non reciprocal flow of information. So in

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Speaker 1: a real relationship, information flows back and forth. You share something,

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Speaker 1: they share something. You tell them a secret, they tell

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Speaker 1: you a secret. You're vulnerable together, but again you learn

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Speaker 1: a lot about them, they don't know anything about you.

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Speaker 1: And what it can sometimes lead to is people you

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Speaker 1: know dming famous celebrities, people sending them insane long emails,

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Speaker 1: giving them all this information about them almost to make

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Speaker 1: it feel like they know them, or meeting a celebrity

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Speaker 1: and telling them the personal, intimate thing about them. Because

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Speaker 1: our brain is like, okay, we need to bridge the gap.

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Speaker 1: It kind of understands that this is an illusion and goes, well,

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Speaker 1: the illusion will feel less severe if I start just

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Speaker 1: telling people things. The thing is is that you are

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Speaker 1: one of thousands of people who DM a celebrity like

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Speaker 1: Billie Eilish or a famous influencer, But you only see

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Speaker 1: your message, You only see what you're giving, and so

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Speaker 1: the level of investment you put in it's not matched,

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Speaker 1: it cannot be matched, but it feels like a lot

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Speaker 1: from your direction, whereas the other person still has no

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Speaker 1: idea who you are. These relationships are also formed through

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Speaker 1: repeated exposure. Consistency, as we know, is a key ingredient

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Speaker 1: in the formula for perceived closeness for building any kind

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Speaker 1: of relationship. Any relationship does not form overnight. It needs

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Speaker 1: to be cultivated through consistent, repeated interactions or, in this scenario,

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Speaker 1: repeated consumption of content. Whether it's watching a show weekly,

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Speaker 1: whether it's listening to a podcast daily, whether it is

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Speaker 1: following an influencer stories who post multiple times a day.

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Speaker 1: This continuous exposure fosters familiarity, you know what's going on

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Speaker 1: in their life, and a deep sense of closeness. That's

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Speaker 1: a very natural reaction. The more frequently and consistently you

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Speaker 1: engage with their content, the stronger the feeling of a

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Speaker 1: developed relationship becomes. That is why TikTok has done so

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Speaker 1: well for making people famous, because it runs on people

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Speaker 1: sharing as much of themselves as possible. It runs on

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Speaker 1: people being content machines, and it gives that sense of

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Speaker 1: consistency and exposure, this consistent presence. It also cultivates a

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Speaker 1: real strong sense of anticipation, right you're waiting for the

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Speaker 1: next thing that they're going to talk about, You're waiting

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Speaker 1: for the next hole they're going to post, You're waiting

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Speaker 1: for the next point of character development. Researchers have identified

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Speaker 1: that this anticipation also strengthens an emotional investment in this person.

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Speaker 1: You start to give them money, you start to buy

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Speaker 1: their merchandise, you start to attend events, you start to

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Speaker 1: subscribe for paid content, You start to give them more

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Speaker 1: of your time, and this financial commitment, this investment of

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Speaker 1: energy and time and resources, further solidifies the bond that

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Speaker 1: you believe you have. Now. Whilst this concept originated with

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Speaker 1: very traditional broadcast media like TV and radio, of course

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Speaker 1: the digital age it's just caused an explosion and a

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Speaker 1: radical transformation of parasocial relationships because you can now find

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Speaker 1: any kind of person who looks like you, who has

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Speaker 1: the same interests as you. You can kind of pick

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Speaker 1: and choose who you want to relate to because there's

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Speaker 1: so many Internet personalities available, whereas previously, like you kind

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Speaker 1: of only had the traditionally famous individuals to choose from.

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Speaker 1: Online personalities are also really unedited. They sell a highly

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Speaker 1: authentic persona because they know that this is what people

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Speaker 1: want to see. They know what scientists have been saying

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Speaker 1: for a very long time. Either they know it from

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Speaker 1: research or they know it through trial and error. They

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Speaker 1: know that when someone shares vulnerable information, when someone talks

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Speaker 1: about the breakup, when someone posts blooper reels, when someone

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Speaker 1: films themselves without makeup, and when they maintain a consistent

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Speaker 1: persona through series, through whatever it is, they are often

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Speaker 1: perceived as more relatable and trustworthy as someone who has

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Speaker 1: kind of been behind the scenes in this industry. I

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Speaker 1: have to tell you a lot of what you are

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Speaker 1: seeing is not real. Even if it looks really authentic,

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Speaker 1: that authenticity has been created, those interesting reels or those

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Speaker 1: interesting storylines, or those moments, those tea times, like, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it isn't real. People know that this is

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Speaker 1: a marketing, that this is a way to market themselves.

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Speaker 1: Even if you think that you are immune to it.

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Speaker 1: The way that our brain works sometimes means that you're not.

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Speaker 1: Our brains are very ancient organs, and they are meticulously

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Speaker 1: wired over millennia for social interaction and I guess survival

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Speaker 1: within a tribal context. For hundreds of thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: any face or voice that we encountered was almost unequivocally

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Speaker 1: indicative of a real, reciprocal social partner, someone we'd potentially

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Speaker 1: interact with, directly, form alliances with, or even be threatened by.

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Speaker 1: And our brains, as remarkably adaptable as they are, haven't

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Speaker 1: fully caught up to the rapid advent of mass media.

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Speaker 1: They still largely process any interaction using the same neural

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Speaker 1: machinery and mental shortcuts as they would a real world interaction.

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Speaker 1: And this modern day concept is really explained by something

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Speaker 1: called media equation theory, which essentially posits that humans often

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Speaker 1: interact with media as if it were real people or places.

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Speaker 1: It's why people love to go to the Friends Apartment

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Speaker 1: in New York. It's why people who play fictional characters

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Speaker 1: on TV shows a mass an abundant personal following. Our

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Speaker 1: human brain is fundamentally a social brain. It's perpetually on

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Speaker 1: the lookout for connections and it interprets the cues from

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Speaker 1: media figures through that ingrain lens. It sees their behaviors, reactions, emotions,

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Speaker 1: stories like our own. It compares them to what we're

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Speaker 1: going through. So they also feel familiar. And because of that,

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Speaker 1: we automatically see online personalities or media personalities similar to

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Speaker 1: how we see our friends and family. There's a sense

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Speaker 1: of likeness there. Critical reason for this lies in the

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Speaker 1: perceived control that parasocial relationships offer, which I think is

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Speaker 1: also why they are on the rise. Unlike real life friendships,

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Speaker 1: which demand consistency, they demand effort. You have to make time,

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Speaker 1: you have to make plans. Sometimes there is conflict, Sometimes

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Speaker 1: there is awkwardness, there is vulnerability. Parasocial relationships are always

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Speaker 1: available and they're always kind of easy. There's virtually no

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Speaker 1: risk of direct rejection because they don't actually know you.

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Speaker 1: There's no conflict, there's no social anxiety that is often

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Speaker 1: associated with, you know, traditional interpersonal interactions. You are in

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Speaker 1: complete control. You decide when to watch, when to listen,

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Speaker 1: and crucially when to simply turn it off. This aspect

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Speaker 1: can be incredibly appealing, especially for individuals who might struggle

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Speaker 1: with social anxiety or who might harbor a real, deep

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Speaker 1: seated fear of rejection in their real world interactions parasocial relationships.

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Speaker 1: Their power is that they can offer a low risk

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Speaker 1: avenue for experiencing social connection. It's also important to understand

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Speaker 1: that not all parasocial relationships are created equal. They operate

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Speaker 1: on what we call a continuum of intensity. So it's

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Speaker 1: not that they simply exist or don't exist. There's different

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Speaker 1: levels to it. In particular, there are three different levels

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Speaker 1: of parasocial relationships that we might develop. At the mildest

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Speaker 1: and most common end, you have entertainment social parasocial relationships.

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Speaker 1: This is where your engagement is primarily for enjoyment. You

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Speaker 1: appreciate a celebrity's work. You appreciate Beyonce's albums. You might

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Speaker 1: casually follow their life updates. You might, you know, chat

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Speaker 1: about them with your friends. It's like it's fun. It's

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Speaker 1: relatively low stakes. It doesn't involve a deep emotional investment.

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Speaker 1: It's not taking away from your daily life. It's just

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Speaker 1: really like enjoyment and passive entertainment. Moving along the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: we encounter intense personal parasocial relationships. Here there is a

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Speaker 1: considerably stronger emotional investment. You feel like they can influence

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Speaker 1: your decisions, influence your purchasing decisions, influence what you're wearing.

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Speaker 1: You experience strong empathy, deep loyalty. You might even perceive

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Speaker 1: them as a friend or a kindred spirit. Whilst you

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Speaker 1: typically still retain the cognitive awareness that it's not real life,

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Speaker 1: it's not a two way relationship, there is this real

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Speaker 1: emotional depth. You do sometimes think like, huh, I could

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Speaker 1: probably be friends with that person. Like if I had

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Speaker 1: the chance to meet whoever, it was like we would

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Speaker 1: get along. There's a strong sense of pride in their

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Speaker 1: achievements as well a genuine sadness in their setbacks. So

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Speaker 1: for individuals with entertainment, social, and even intense personal parasocial relationships,

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Speaker 1: benefits might actually be quite significant. A very groundbreaking twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four study that was published in Nature actually discovered

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Speaker 1: that parasocial bonds actually alleviate feelings of loneliness and they

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Speaker 1: also help with emotional regulation. So you're sad, you're angry,

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Speaker 1: you're heartbroken, you listen to your favorite artists. You feel comforted.

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Speaker 1: You listen to your favorite podcast. You feel better about

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Speaker 1: a situation, not just because of the information they're providing,

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Speaker 1: but because of the fact that it feels comforting, it

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Speaker 1: feels like a friend. Another study that was done in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen for the Journal of Broadcasting and Electronic Media

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Speaker 1: found that parasocial relationships can also buffer the negative effects

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Speaker 1: of social isolation, particularly when we are really limited in

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Speaker 1: terms of social contact. So, if you think about it,

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Speaker 1: during COVID, this was incredibly powerful. Why do you think

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Speaker 1: TikTok so many people got famous on TikTok during COVID

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Speaker 1: because people were looking for ways to interact with others

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Speaker 1: that mimiced real life contexts, that mimiced real life joy

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Speaker 1: and friendship, and it provided a sense of healthy distraction

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Speaker 1: from stress. I think really valuably parasocial relationships. They also

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Speaker 1: serve as a really powerful source of social learning and

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Speaker 1: role modeling in a modern media landscape. People like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm trying to come up with names like

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Speaker 1: people like alex El, people like Taylor Swift. Think about

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Speaker 1: your favorite influencer, your favorite artist. They provide a template

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Speaker 1: for how you want your life to be in a way.

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Speaker 1: They help you define your values, your ethical stances. They

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Speaker 1: help you envision potential career aspirations, They help you make

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Speaker 1: fashion choices, they help you make you know, career and

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Speaker 1: education choices, relationship choices. They kind of provide like a

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Speaker 1: subtle social script for growing up and for interacting with

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Speaker 1: the real world. A lot of people who are lifelong

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Speaker 1: fans of certain musicians or certain actresses or certain people

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Speaker 1: will tell you like they first discovered them when they

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Speaker 1: were quite young. This person has followed them through their

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Speaker 1: life chapters. You know, I know I'm talking about Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift a lot, but she's probably the person I have

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Speaker 1: the deepest parasocial relationship to because you know, when I

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Speaker 1: was six, that's like the first album that my dad

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Speaker 1: bought me. And when I was fourteen, you know, I

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Speaker 1: went to New York and I went to all of

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Speaker 1: her favorite spots that she talked about in she talked

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Speaker 1: about in like a Vogue interview, and it was almost like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she is this guidance for me, and like her albums

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Speaker 1: would bookmark certain life experiences I was having that she

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Speaker 1: went through before my friends went through, and so you

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Speaker 1: really see that. It's like they're a companion for life.

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Speaker 1: They feel like someone you can trust because they'll never

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Speaker 1: hurt you, and they because they are wealthy and famous

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Speaker 1: and often beautiful. There's this lifestyle they have that you think, Wow,

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Speaker 1: if my life was more like that, it would be

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Speaker 1: much better. That's a core part of how they really

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Speaker 1: make money. It's not just that they seem like a friend.

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Speaker 1: It's that there's a part of them that's unattainable. And

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Speaker 1: there's a weird kind of economics to the fact that

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Speaker 1: because they're unattainable, they can sell you things with the

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Speaker 1: idea that if you have that thing, you'll be more

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Speaker 1: like them. If you drink their branded drink, you'll be

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Speaker 1: more like them. If you wear the clothes that they

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Speaker 1: wear and that they sell, you'll be more like them.

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Speaker 1: If you listen to their music, if you adopt their lifestyle,

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Speaker 1: if you buy the same peedison, whatever it is, you

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Speaker 1: could be like them. And wouldn't your life be so

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Speaker 1: much happier. Wouldn't you just be a better version of you?

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Speaker 1: So their comparison targets sometimes as well. They present this

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Speaker 1: idea of who we might want to be, who we

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Speaker 1: can aspire towards. Whether that's a good or a bad thing,

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Speaker 1: it's up to you. For some people, you know, that

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Speaker 1: kind of upward social comparison is quite motivating for other people.

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Speaker 1: It can make them feel really terrible, and it can

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Speaker 1: lead into a more sour kind of connection. The relationship

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Speaker 1: becomes all consuming, it becomes intense. This is what I

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Speaker 1: want to explore after this shortbreak. What happens when a

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Speaker 1: parasocial relationship turns unhealthy? Stay with us. So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about parasocial relationships, the good, the great, the bad, the ugly.

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Speaker 1: What makes these kind of studio relationships almost dangerous? So

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Speaker 1: at the extreme and rarest end of that parasocial scale

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Speaker 1: we were talking about before, you find borderline pathological parasocial relationships.

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Speaker 1: My god, say seven times borderline pathological palatopis. Yeah. See,

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Speaker 1: I can't even say once. These are the least common

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Speaker 1: and potentially the most concerning to navigate. So in these cases,

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Speaker 1: the individual can begin to lose control over their thoughts

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Speaker 1: and their feelings concerning the media figure. Sometimes the lines

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Speaker 1: of reality are incredibly blurred. They might develop delusions of

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Speaker 1: actual reciprocity. They might believe that the media figure truly

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Speaker 1: knows them or will one day respond to their affections.

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Speaker 1: You hear stories of people believing that Drew Barrymore is

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Speaker 1: sending them messages through their TV to come in whisk

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Speaker 1: her away, or of people breaking into celebrities houses because

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Speaker 1: they think that they have been invited. What factors cause

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Speaker 1: someone to create this more intense form of parasocial activity. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely linked to certain mental health sorders, particularly psychosis

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Speaker 1: and schizophrenia, But individuals experiencing chronic loneliness, heightened social anxiety, introversion,

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Speaker 1: lower self esteem, or who have a stronger psychological desire

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Speaker 1: for escape may be a lot more prone to forming

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Speaker 1: these intense relationships. For example, there is this model known

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Speaker 1: as the absorption addiction model that helps explain why people

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Speaker 1: often engage in extreme celebrity worship. And essentially what it

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Speaker 1: says is that they do that to compensate for some

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Speaker 1: other kind of deficiency in their life. Something is lacking

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Speaker 1: in their life. They have a difficulty forming intimate relationships,

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Speaker 1: they lack identity, they lack career stability, they're having difficulty

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Speaker 1: adjusting to life's like psychological demands, and having this fictional

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Speaker 1: relationship with someone feels that whole for them. It feels

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Speaker 1: that sense of yearning and longing. So, according to this model,

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Speaker 1: initially the intense focus on this celebrity gives someone real

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Speaker 1: sense of satisfaction. This motivates them to become even more

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Speaker 1: intensely attached. This is the absorption stage of the model.

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Speaker 1: The absorb parts of this person into their own identity.

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Speaker 1: This fulfillment then becomes addictive. The more they engage with content,

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Speaker 1: the more they feel a sense of belonging, the more

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Speaker 1: they feel welcomed into a community, the more that they

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Speaker 1: feel like someone is really speaking to them, the more

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Speaker 1: likely it is for them to engage in thrill seeking

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Speaker 1: behavior stalking, trying to gain some sense of mental, physical,

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Speaker 1: emotional closeness to the individual. These relationships act as a

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Speaker 1: secure base for that individual, especially if real life attachments

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Speaker 1: are inconsistent. But that actually what actually ends up happening

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Speaker 1: is if it becomes completely demented, it becomes completely overwhelming,

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Speaker 1: and because they've spent so much time in the world

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Speaker 1: and the mind of this person they admire, they can't

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Speaker 1: distinguish what is normal behavior and a normal approach to

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Speaker 1: this individual. The biggest risk beyond obviously danger to both parties,

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Speaker 1: that comes from these intense kind of parasocial relationships is

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Speaker 1: that they can become a replacement for real reciprocal bonds.

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Speaker 1: If parasocial relationships fill the void left by a lack

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Speaker 1: of genuine friendship or family bonds, it can actually lead

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Speaker 1: to greater isolation in the long run. There's an over reliance,

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Speaker 1: particularly because there's an ease. It's easier to be and

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Speaker 1: to relate to someone who you're never going to meet

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Speaker 1: versus having to maintain face to face connections. But what

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Speaker 1: happens when the person at the center of these parasocial

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Speaker 1: relationships doesn't live up to our expectations? What happens when

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Speaker 1: they do something wrong, when they express political views that

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Speaker 1: are different to yours, when they do something scandalous. You know,

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Speaker 1: Charlie XCX like did a bunch of work for H

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Speaker 1: and M, and a lot of people were like, that's

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Speaker 1: not who I thought. You know, Bratt girl Summer was

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is. You know, these people are real

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Speaker 1: humans with their own motivations and teams of people telling

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Speaker 1: them what's best, and they deal with every other every

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Speaker 1: motion that you've experienced they are experiencing. But obviously, like

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Speaker 1: under the limelight, they're not always going to do everything right.

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Speaker 1: But if we have an intense psychological and parasocial connection

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Speaker 1: to them, it can feel like they've done something wrong

429
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: to us. There's severe grief, there's anger, there's a sense

430
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: of disappointment, there's a sense of like having to unfriend them,

431
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: almost not engage with them anymore, like you would with

432
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: a friend who also hurt you. This is where this

433
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: idea of ownership over public figures and influencers comes in.

434
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: It's this overly inflated sense of in titlement or an

435
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: expectation of, you know, relatability and reliability that no one

436
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: can promise you. You know, this person does not know

437
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: who you are, Like I feel like I've said that

438
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: so many times. But they would have millions, Some of

439
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: these people have millions, billions of people who really adore

440
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: them and who like them, and they can't make every

441
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: single person happy. It's just absolutely impossible for them to

442
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: keep everyone happy and also continue to build a fan

443
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: base because obviously what's required for building a fan base authenticity.

444
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: Authenticity leaves a lot of room for disagreement. And it's

445
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: so interesting that people you know, someone will do something wrong.

446
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: And yes, there are definitely things like when people do

447
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: wrong that you're like, oh, that's really terrible, But people

448
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: will just do something wrong that they didn't even realize,

449
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: or they'll use a brand that you know, they didn't

450
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: know was bad or whatever it is, and people will

451
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: go at them in the comments, and it's like, I

452
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: can't believe that I ever followed you. You don't deserve

453
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: any more of my attention. You're a terrible, disgusting person.

454
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: I feel betrayed. Think about what it would be like

455
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: to be on the other end of being like you

456
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: feel betrayed, Like I don't even know who you are,

457
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: and you're having such a strong, viscual emotional reaction to me,

458
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: and obviously this person's going to take it on, but

459
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: how did Like, can you see how odd that is

460
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: to be like the subject of so much anger and

461
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: upset that you obviously don't want to cause, but then

462
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: you also don't particularly feel responsible for, but also don't

463
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: really know how to handle. Because it's not like this

464
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: is a friend who you actually owe things to. It's

465
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: someone who feels like you owe them something even though

466
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: you don't even know their name. So you can see

467
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: how this gets really complicated, right. People are obviously entitled

468
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: to their opinions, and people are entitled to expect certain

469
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: things of celebrities and people who have made a name

470
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: from being public. But it's not a normal relationship. It's

471
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: not a normal way to interact with people. It's completely abnormal,

472
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: and I think it's a real contributor these parasocial relationships.

473
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: We've been speaking primarily about positive ones, as in it's

474
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: bringing a sense of worthwhile and bringing a sense of

475
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: fulfillment to your life, but there's also negative parasocial relationships

476
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: that can lead to online abuse and hate comments and

477
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: trolls where people get a kick out of really hurting

478
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: someone and bringing them down, and they get a kick

479
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: out of seeing their words and their actions hurt someone

480
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: they've never met. Like I used to have a trol

481
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: like that, who had I don't even know who this

482
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: person is, but they were so awful to me. And

483
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: every time I would block an account, a new account

484
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: would pop up or yeah I knew, I couldn't tell

485
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: if it was the same person, although I was pretty

486
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 1: sure would pop up and start all over again. And

487
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: I always had this fear. I was like, is this

488
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: someone I know? Is this someone whose feelings I've act

489
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: hurt in the past, Because how could anyone be this

490
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: invested in harming me if they didn't actually know me,

491
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: And it turns out it's really not all that uncommon

492
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: these days. The rate of celebrity stalking, the rate of

493
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: celebrity worship, the rate of thrill seeking behavior towards celebrities,

494
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: the rate of online harassment is going up or comes

495
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: down to this strange relationship that we feel like we

496
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: have this strange sense of ownership over people online. I

497
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: think it's really important with that in mind, to be

498
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: really mindful with how you engage with individuals who you

499
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: believe you are forming a parasocial relationship with, to be

500
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: really self aware around the fact that this is not real.

501
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: A relationship is a two way straight. This is a

502
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: one way street. As much as you might really care

503
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: about them and much as you are very invested in

504
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: their life, the moment that you start to feel like

505
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: they owe you something, the moment that you start to

506
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: feel like your emotions are tied to what they're doing,

507
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: the moment that you start to find that you are

508
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: going to their page, going to their Instagram, going to

509
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: their website, whatever, It is so repeatedly that they are

510
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: a major thought pattern for you and take up a

511
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: lot of mental space. You do need to kind of

512
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: pull it back. Monitor whether this over reliance on this

513
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: fictional person or this online persona or this celebrity is

514
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: maybe making up for a deficiency in another area of

515
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: your life. It's really important to understand that if you're

516
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: leaning to like too far into this person's persona or

517
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: to the world they've created, can you identify if there

518
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: is perhaps another need that is not being met, for example,

519
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: a sense of companionship. If that's what you're struggling with.

520
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: I have a whole episod so on making friends in

521
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: your twenties, but you really need to start seeking out

522
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: real world interaction. Go to the same places, the same clubs,

523
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: the same gym classes, the same cafes as part of

524
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: your routine at the same times. Meet people that way.

525
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: Go and do friendship nights or meetups or dinner with

526
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: strangers in your local area. Ask to be introduced to

527
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: mutual friends. Put more effort in with work colleagues. Note

528
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: and notice that an overreliance on what's happening in someone's

529
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: online life might be because of a lack of something

530
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: happening in your offline life. And really understand that although

531
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: a parasocial relationship might be might feel perfect, you're missing

532
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: out on a really core ingredient when it comes to

533
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: nourishing relationships, which is the messiness and the vulnerabilities. That's

534
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: what makes love and platonic intimacy and connection so real

535
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: and necessary for longevity is that it challenges us and

536
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: it allows us to grow, and it allows us to

537
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: feel trust and vulnerability and to feel growth and attachment

538
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: to someone. There is no replacement for this, There is

539
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: no replacement for that at all, nothing in this world

540
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: that someone, an online media persona could ever fill. So

541
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: just make deliberate, concentrated efforts to mindfully engage, to have

542
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: a few digital detoxes every now and again, Regularly schedule

543
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: and commit to breaks from social media or a particular

544
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: kind of content that's really going to help reduce that

545
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: constant exposure, and really critically evaluate the content you're consuming,

546
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to influencers promoting certain products or lifestyles.

547
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: Let me tell you this once more, A lot of

548
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: that is curated to sell you something. A lot of

549
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: what you see from very famous influences is a lot

550
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: of trial and error from their part until they've found

551
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: something that clicks and that works, and then replicating that

552
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: over and over again in a way that might feel

553
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: authentic for you, but it is perhaps not. There's a

554
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 1: lot of filters going on, there's a lot of body

555
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: modification through online editing that goes on. There is so

556
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: much that you don't see. And I know you might

557
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: not need that reminder because you're a smart, intelligent person,

558
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: but even if you think you're immune to it, you

559
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: are not. I am not. And I'm friends with people

560
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: like this and not people who are in authentic. But

561
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm friends with people who work in media who we

562
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: talk about this all the time. And even then I'll

563
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: see someone's life online and be like, Oh, my life

564
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: would just be better if it looked like that. That's parasocial.

565
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: It's unhealthy comparison. It's unhealthy obsession with a life that

566
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: is being displayed that is not real. So we really

567
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: need to find our reality point when you really need

568
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: to find a way of assessing this truthfully. I also

569
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: saw this really amazing video the other day around the

570
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: difference between consuming and applying. If you find that you

571
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: are constantly like consuming content because you want inspiration and

572
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: because you want to feel like you, sometimes consuming content

573
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: feels like you're doing something, it's not the same as

574
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: actually doing the thing. Consuming massive amounts of running content,

575
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: consuming mass amounts of lifestyle content of business content is

576
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: not the same as putting those things into action. So

577
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: this might be unrelated to parasocial relationships. Perhaps this is

578
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: more around just genuine literacy and social media literacy. Make

579
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: sure you are not confusing consuming and consumption and viewing

580
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: as acting and doing and cultivating a life that you want.

581
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: The hours that you spend online and engaged in these

582
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: online fictional worlds is time wasted most of the time,

583
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, it really is. Like social media is for

584
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: dopamine and dopamine only. And so if you're finding that

585
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: that's all you want to all you feel drawn to,

586
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: how can you turn consumption into creation and into cultivating

587
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: a good life beyond the screen. Okay, we're going to

588
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: take a short break, but when we return, I want

589
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: to answer some of your questions, dilemmas, conundrums around parasocial relationships.

590
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: There were some incredible questions for this episode, so stay

591
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: with us. Let's get into our listener questions for this episode.

592
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: Just as a reminder, make sure that you are following

593
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: us at that Psychology podcast on Instagram if you want

594
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: to be able to participate in future episodes when we

595
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: put the call out for any questions you may have.

596
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: This first question is why are we so obsessed with

597
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: celebrity gossip? It feels so unhealthy that we are so

598
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: invested in the lives of people we will never know

599
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: and tear them down as if we do. Okay, So

600
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: this is deeply psychological. Actually, from a psychological perspective, our

601
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: obsession with celebrity gossip really comes down to our i

602
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: would say, deep rooted evolutionary instinct around social hierarchy and status.

603
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: We are inherently wired to monitor where we sit in

604
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: the social hierarchy as tribal creatures, and particularly as well

605
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: to monitor those at the top of the social ladder

606
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: because historically that kind of helped us figure out our

607
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: own position within a group. Celebrities are kind of like

608
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: the modern day royalty, right, and so because of that,

609
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: sometimes we are hoping that they will fail. In Australia

610
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: we have this term, it's called tall poppy syndrome, whereby

611
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: the tallest flower is the first one to get cut down.

612
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: You know, the person to succeed is the first one

613
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: to be for people to wish for their failure, and

614
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: I think that happens with celebrities a lot, because if

615
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: they fail, perhaps we think that there will be room

616
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: for us, or perhaps we think that that proves that

617
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: no one is perfect and so we shouldn't feel bad

618
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: about ourselves either, especially considering that these individuals are often

619
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: elevated as being visions of perfection and being completely flawless.

620
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: Gossip as well really plays into this as well. Gossip

621
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: is a form of information sharing. It's a form of monitoring,

622
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: I guess, like moral and social rules. I also think

623
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: that it's a form of escapism, so our lives feel

624
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: less bad if we're able to compare them to the

625
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: life of a celebrity who's having, you know, a really

626
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: terrible time. It makes us feel like, ah, here is

627
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: someone else who's struggling as well, who's experiencing a breakup,

628
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: who's experiencing scandal or failure, and it humanizes them, and

629
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: it reminds us that wealth or beauty doesn't shield any

630
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: from life's challenges, which is kind of nice. It kind

631
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: of provides a sense of catharsis and a sense of relief. Also,

632
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: there's a sense of entertainment as well. People love to

633
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: be involved in things that are novel, a new, and scandalous,

634
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: and celebrity gossip is a great way to do that

635
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: because they don't feel real, So the consequences of saying

636
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: all the terrible things that you think and feel won't

637
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: be as significant as if you said them about someone else.

638
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: So this next question I kind of debated whether to

639
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: include it or not, but I thought it was interesting

640
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: if you will allow me to be I don't know,

641
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: self indulgent. I don't know it feels, friends, but I'll

642
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: tell you the question. The question was how does it

643
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: feel for the receiver being you? So how do I

644
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: deal with parasocial tendencies from listeners or from fans. I

645
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: will say that the majority of people who come up

646
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: to me or who I interact with who love the

647
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: podcast are super respectful, super cool. I always I always

648
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: to people like I have the coolest listeners. Anytime I

649
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: meet any of you, I'm genuinely like so impressed, like

650
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: just really cool, inspiring, smart individuals. You guys always have

651
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: such interesting things to say, and I really like talking

652
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: to you. I think it becomes a struggle online. So

653
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: something that I really encounter. Obviously, given the nature of

654
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: what we talk about on the podcast, it's quite deep

655
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: and vulnerable and emotional, and often people find those deep

656
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: emotional episodes during really hard times for them. So I

657
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: can occasionally receive messages that I don't think necessarily understand

658
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: that I am a stranger and that when I'm checking

659
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: my messages and I open a message without context that

660
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: tells me about something really terrible and traumatic that happens

661
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: in your life, like it does impact me. And sometimes

662
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: I find that strange because I've never met you, I

663
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: don't know you. I'm sure I would really like you

664
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: if I did. But because there are, you know, at

665
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,479
Speaker 1: this stage so many people in the community, I can't

666
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: have those one on one relationships. So receiving those messages

667
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: used to really stress me out. And I used to

668
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: feel like I owed people a response because it would

669
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: be really delicate stuff, and I didn't want to ignore them.

670
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: But I think I realized that it would that it

671
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: is more ethical to not respond versus to respond. It's

672
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: more ethical for me to ignore the message because I

673
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: think responding to messages gives an indicator of trust, and

674
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: it kind of sends a signal that someone can continue

675
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: to do that and that I will be there for them,

676
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: And the thing is is that I just can't be.

677
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: You know, I have my own relationships, I have my

678
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: own friends, I do you know, I can provide solace

679
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: and love and advice for them, But to do it

680
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: for thousands of people would just be like really really irresponsible.

681
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that's sometimes strange. I think also

682
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: it's strange when I feel like I'm not particularly like

683
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: I don't see myself as a public figure, Like I've

684
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: been very deliberate around not becoming like an influencer personality,

685
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: not because I think there's anything bad about it, just

686
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: because I know how I handle public scrutiny and I

687
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: don't handle it well and I just don't think I

688
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: would enjoy it. So yeah, I feel like there were

689
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: opportunities for me to be more like an online personality

690
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: and I didn't take them. And sometimes I wonder if

691
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to regret that, because you know, there's more

692
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: money there, and there's more more listeners there, and there's

693
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,919
Speaker 1: more appreciation there, and you know, there's more attention there,

694
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, did I give up on an

695
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: opportunity to be that kind of, you know, to be

696
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: a TikTok star or whatever. But no, I think I

697
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: made the right decision. Not that I could have even

698
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: really have done it, but yeah, there were definitely opportunities

699
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: would be like, oh, do this ad series or do

700
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: this collaboration or do this just general series, and I've

701
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: been like, I don't really want to do that, so

702
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: I think I kind of avoid a large part of it.

703
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: But even with my like deliberate attempt to not be

704
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: part of that kind of ecosystem, Yeah, people do stuff

705
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: till sometimes overstep boundaries, and I do find it strange,

706
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: especially when they make comments around like my boyfriend, who

707
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: I don't really share much about. I'm like, oh you

708
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: Like I had someone comment like on our relationship recently,

709
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: and I was like, you don't know anything about me

710
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: and anything about my boyfriend, and we have such an

711
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: incredibly healthy relationship and it was so interesting to see

712
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: this person coming in blind and really thinking that they

713
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: were saying something impactful and genuinely sound like they sounded

714
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: like concern for me, And I was like, oh, so

715
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: this is what it's like when we judge other people's relationships,

716
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: like this is this knows nothing but from their perspective,

717
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: they really think that they do. And yeah, it was

718
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of a it was interesting, but yeah, I don't

719
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: think I really struggle with it, probably because of the

720
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: fact that I'm not famous. The only way I think

721
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: I struggle is when I feel like responsible to people

722
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: to respond to really delicate messages. But I've got a

723
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: healthy relationship with that now, all right, our third question

724
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: for the day. Can parasocial relationships be healthy? I think yes.

725
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of situations where actually

726
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: they can be a source of inspiration. They can be

727
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: a source of motivation, They can be a source of comfort,

728
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: even especially when we are fans of someone who's going

729
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: through similar struggles as us, similar struggles with their identity

730
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: or with their body image, or with their relationship, or

731
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: with finding themselves, or with their gender or their sexuality.

732
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 1: It's really comforting to see that you're not alone. I think,

733
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: especially if you are in an environment where you don't

734
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: have role models like that, having a celebrity figure who

735
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: is accessible and available does provide you with the script

736
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: for how to live a life differently to how everyone

737
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: around you is telling you to live. I think they

738
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: really crossed over when you don't have that important reality distinction,

739
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: or you don't have that part of you that's like, yes,

740
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: but this person doesn't know who I am, or like, yes,

741
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: but we don't actually have a relationship. So as long

742
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: as you remain a fan rather than thinking you have

743
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: a friendship, I think that's then you're pretty safe. This

744
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: final question, I just thought it was really cool and

745
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting, and I wanted to continue

746
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: a discussion in the comments. Who was the best celebrity

747
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: to worship? If you have made it this far, put

748
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: a comment down the below, Who was the best celebrity

749
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: to worship? Who do you think is deserving of all

750
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: the parasocial relationships that come their way. My answer is

751
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton. I think that Dolly Parton is the best

752
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: celebrity in the world. She had this this podcast that

753
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: was done on her a couple of years ago called

754
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton's America. It's like a six part series. It's

755
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: so wonderful and it traces the history of America through

756
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 1: the story of Dolly Parton. It's crazy. You just got

757
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: to listen to to understand what I'm talking about, And

758
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: it just made me learn so much more about her,

759
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: and I was like, Wow, you are just such a

760
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: cool lady, and you do so much for the community,

761
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: and you have this beautiful relationship with her husband who's

762
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: recently passed. That's parasocial of me that I know that that.

763
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: I was, Yeah, anyways, I just really admired her. So

764
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: I think Dolly Partners is up there. I think she's

765
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: really really cool. She's the first one that comes to mind.

766
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: If you have another example, leave it in the comments below.

767
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: But I hope that this episode was interesting to you.

768
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 1: I hope it taught you something. I hope that it

769
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: helped you understand how to navigate these relationships in a

770
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: very mediate saturated world. Just remember, our brains are completely

771
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: simply wired for connection, and these one sided bonds are

772
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: just a sign of that inherent wiring. They're not bad,

773
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: In fact, they can be very valuable. But the ultimate

774
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: goal is just to be mindful and conscious around how

775
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: these figures are copleamenting your life rather than taking from it.

776
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: I think by doing so you can really harness the benefits.

777
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: So thank you for listening this far. Make sure you're

778
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: following me on Instagram at that psychology podcast that you're

779
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 1: following along you're subscribed, wherever you are listening right now,

780
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: leave a comment below based on that question I just asked,

781
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle

782
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 1: to yourself. We will talk very very soon.