WEBVTT - Did Mallory Make it to the Top of Everest First? 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:02.800 Hey, everybody, it's your old pal Josh and for this 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:07.640 WEEK'SYSK Select, I've chosen our twenty twenty two episode, Did 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.399 Mallory make it to the top of Everest First? It's 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.760 a clunky title, but an amazing episode. It talks about 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.160 George Mallory, an unsung climber who may have been the 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.799 first European to ever summ at Everest, a full three 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:25.040 decades before Sir Edmund Hillary definitely did. The reason we 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.520 don't know. The reason it's still a mystery is because 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:31.080 he was lost for years and even once he was found, 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.400 still didn't quite answer the question. This is an amazing 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.240 history mystery podcast that also has a lot of human 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.360 spirit in it, and I hope you enjoy it. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:51.920 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.480 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.360 Chuck and this is Stuff you Should Know Lost down 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.000 the Mountain op edition, but not in Tennessee because this 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.560 has nothing to do with the Beverly Hillbillies at all. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.200 Wow. I thought that was a roundabout funny intro. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.600 I didn't even know what was coming thirty seconds ago. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.640 No, we are not talking about Tennessee. We are talking 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:25.800 about one of the heroes of mountaineering and mountain climbing, certainly, 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:31.880 mister George Mallory, and the great mystery to me, unsettled 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.959 mystery on whether or not he ever made it to 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.640 the top of Edvers Yes, Edvere. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.800 So boy, yeah, this is a tough start, Chuck, because 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.640 I just realized what I reference was the Davy Crockett theme, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.520 not Beverly Hillbilly. So everybody save your emails. Okay, Oh 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.280 that's right, all of you Beverly Hillbilly's cose players, save 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.640 your save your emails. So, okay, we're talking about Mount Everest. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.960 We're not talking about Davy Crockett or the Beverly Hillbilly. 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.400 We're talking about George Mallory, and to a lesser extent, 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.040 kind of unfairly but also kind of fairly his climbing companion, 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.280 Sandy Irvine. And George Mallory is extraordinarily famous, not just 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.919 in the climbing community. He's a legend in the climbing community, Chuck. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.840 But you and I know about him. I knew about Mallory, 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:24.160 didn't you before all this? Yeah, at least heard his 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:28.000 name had a general idea about him, right, sure, named 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.600 two other climbers exactly. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:38.320 The guy from that free solo documentary, and well all 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.600 the Sherpa, I mean, we Ed makes his great pains 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.799 to point out the Sherpa, But suffice to say, all 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.840 you have to do is go back and listen to 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.600 our episode Sherpa Warm Friendly Living, in which we dedicate 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:55.919 an entire episode to the usually nameless Sherpa, who are 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.360 usually standing just out of frame of some white dude saying, yeah, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.639 I climbed Everest again, but here, go ahead and get 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:03.640 your picture taken. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.360 Right, And they just kind of slowly shoved them to 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.560 the side. But yeah, but despite your best efforts, you 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.840 still managed to prove my point. Yeah, George Mallory is 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:18.880 extremely famous, and up to his thirties, it did not 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.160 look like it was going to go that way because 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.600 he started out this very famous mountain climber and mountaineer 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.200 and early mountain climber mountaineer too. That's something that I 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.040 feel as a beat will hit throughout this episode that 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.280 these guys that Mallory was climbing with were using like 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.080 they were making some of their own gear. They were 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.400 figuring out mountaineering techniques as they went along. It was 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.360 like a brand new thing that people were doing, and 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.480 George Mallory was among the earliest people doing that. 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.520 Yeah, there's that one. I don't know if it was 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.920 a journalist or somebody was talking about pictures of the 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.360 actual attempt to climb Everest and he said, these guys 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.440 look like they had gone out for a picnic and 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.120 were hit by a snowstorm, right, and just in how 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.080 they were dressed. You know, they were in like sweet 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:05.040 jackets and stuff. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.920 Yeah, and hobnail boots, so just like some leather boots 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.800 with some spikes attached to him. Like just nothing you 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.760 would even climb a hill in these days, let alone 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.719 Mount Everest. But that's what they were wearing. So George 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.400 Mallory didn't start out as showing signs he was going 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.360 to be famous. He was a kind of a left leaning, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:31.600 progressive intellectual school teacher. He did rub elbows with John 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.960 Maynard Keynes and Virginia Wolf from the Bloomsberry group. Bloomsberry 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.280 pretty cool, yeah, but that was probably the greatest brush 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.520 with fame that he had up until he started hitting 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:48.240 Mount Everest and making that basically his stated goal. In life. 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.400 Yeah, I mean he got into hiking and mountaineering when 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.479 he was in his late teens and really fell in 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.040 loved with it. But you know, as Ed Keenley points out, 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.880 it was, you know, it was such a new sport 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.880 that people didn't even really know, Like they haven't even 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.560 charted like the highest mountains in the world up into 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.000 a very i mean what I consider a pretty late 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.680 point when you think about like expeditions at Lewis and 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.520 Clark made it was in eighteen fifty two when they 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.920 finally finally figured out that Everest was the tallest peak. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.400 Yeah, like up to eighteen fifty two, they were basically 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.080 at the point of that one's tall. Oh look at 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:28.279 that one. That's a tall one too. 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.640 Yeah. I wish we could put him next to each other. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.400 Yeah, exactly. So there was actually a guy named Radan 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.480 Siktar who was an Indian surveyor who used data that 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:44.880 the English had produced during their occupation of India to 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.680 calculate just exactly how tall Mount Everest was, because they 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.839 really did settle on Everest just by sight, They're like, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.880 that might be the tallest mountain we've ever seen, And 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.320 indeed it turned out at twenty nine thirty two feet. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.840 Mount Everest was in the mid nineteenth century and still 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:06.279 is today the tallest mountain in the entire world. And 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.240 they named it Everest after the director of the survey 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.479 in India. Of course they did, Sir George Everest. But 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.760 if you asked a Tibetan what's the name of that 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.400 big old mountain over there, they would tell you Chomo Lungma, 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.960 which means mother goddess of the world in Tibetan. So 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.400 even the Tibetans were like, this is clearly the world's 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:25.240 tallest mountain. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.440 Yeah, And of course they had their own names for it, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.279 but we generally don't know those names because they would 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.240 come along later and just name it after just some dude. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.080 Right, but we some Englishmen. I mean Chomlongma, that's definitely 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:40.760 one of them. 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.880 No, I know, but ask ten people what Choe Malonga is. 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.320 Right, and name two other famous climbers. 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.600 Yes, but the long and short of it is, I 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.360 guess the tall and short of it is. They realized 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.320 that Everest was the tallest thing in eighteen fifty two, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.640 but big deal. They couldn't do anything about it. They 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.880 could just kind of gaze upon it. It would be 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.760 decades and decades before anyone even thought that they might 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.920 be able to climb Everest, because here's the deal. Getting 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:15.760 to Everest and climbing it is like ascending the peak 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.680 is one thing, but just getting to that point is 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.160 I don't know, ninety percent of the battle. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.960 I would say easily. Most people think you look at 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:26.760 a mountain, you just climb up the base and go 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.840 up to the side and you're done. But no, you 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.320 have to basically traverse mountain ranges. Mountains just don't exist 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.520 on their own. They're part of ranges and you don't 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.360 really think about it, but you have to climb all 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.880 these other little mini mountains to get to the big 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.520 mountain in the first place. And this can be walks 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.920 of you know, dozens or scores of miles and not 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.040 walk it's not a straight walk over a plane. And 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:49.400 then you get to the edge of the mountain and 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.920 you go up like you're going up and up and up, 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.440 and you're existing at higher and higher altitudes, which the 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.600 English people who were doing this at first were not 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.840 used to, so they were doing this with basically altitude 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.640 sickness and all the stuff that comes with that. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.800 All right, so let's go to nineteen twenty and the 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.800 stages sort of set to where they feel like it 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.640 might be possible to actually accomplish something like this. And 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.280 the Royal Geographic Society got together with the Alpine Club 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.080 to form and they didn't like permanently come together, but 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.960 they worked together to form the Mount Everest Committee to say, 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.480 all right, let's give this a go, old boy, And 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.000 they got permissioned from Tibet in nineteen twenty one to 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.720 go on a scouting trip. And this was a trip 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.000 where they would just kind of figure out how to 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:42.200 climb Everest. Like it wasn't like they just said, all right, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.200 let's give it a go and see if we can 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:46.800 get to the top. Like they had to take several 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.400 trips just to sort of map out what they thought 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.319 would be a feasible way to even try to get 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:52.840 to the top. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:57.439 Right, Apparently no one from Europe had been within sixty 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.199 miles of Everest itself, so this was all new, uncharted 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.080 territory basically for these guys. And again it's really important 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.560 to say, like we're going to be telling the story 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.480 from the English point of view, and like you said, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.680 the Sherpa rarely figure into that, with the big exception 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.400 of Tensing Norgay, who officially was the first to summ 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:22.280 at Everest with Edmund Hillary. But these guys weren't doing 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.800 this alone. They had, depending on the expedition and how 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.640 much money it had, scores to hundreds of sherpas like 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.680 attending them, helping them climb, moving their stuff, and just 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.800 basically making life much easier on these guys. That said, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:44.040 I really don't want to undermine the amount of effort 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:48.240 and strenuousness that these guys, yeah, and talent that these 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.800 guys underwent in just figuring out how to get to 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.199 Everest to start on that first nineteen twenty one expedition. 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:02.800 Yeah, it's really cool to read contemporary, yes, contemporary accounts 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:08.280 of what modern climbers think of Mallory and his not 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.480 just tenaciousness, but his actual talent level and his climbing 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:16.520 style was apparently very unique and just revered today by 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.240 modern climbers. Is And you know, it's not to take 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.320 anything away from what anyone does today, because what people 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.480 can accomplish day is amazing. But they accomplish these things 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.439 based generally on you know, they can be taught by 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.320 other people and like this is how it's done, Like 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.600 Mallory and the King. We're figuring this out for the 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.640 first time. And by the way, I might have said 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.560 Hillary instead of Mallory. Yeah, because I'm just thinking of 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.440 climbing hills. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.000 Right, and we should just go ahead and say just 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.800 to get any confusion out of the way. Edmund Hillary 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:50.680 summitted evereston I think nineteen fifty three. We're talking about 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.040 the first expeditions to ever again in nineteen twenty Mallory 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.040 and Hillary, I don't believe ever met. They were of 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.560 different generations of climbers, but Mallory was considered one of 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.960 the pioneers, as were the other men in his expeditions 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:04.600 that he went on. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.400 All right, So if I said Hillary, I meant Mallory. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:09.200 Are we all good? 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:10.000 I think we're good? 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.360 Yeah, okay, all right. So they got permission again for 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.880 this trip in nineteen twenty one, and Mallory was in 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:23.000 his early thirties. He was included in this first group 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.680 and I think was really chomping at the bit to 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.760 do so. He has a wife and three young kids 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:33.200 at home, but really nothing could stop him from going 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:34.360 on this first scouting trip. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.920 No, and he was thirty three on the nineteen twenty 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.040 one trip, and he says, basically, hey, dear, I'm going 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.079 to quit my job and leave you and the children 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.240 for I don't know, seven months at least to go 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.680 on this expedition see you. And that's where he went. 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.920 But he did say to his wife, here's what I'll do. 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.960 I'll take this picture of you, babe, and I will 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.080 carry it with me always, and I will place you 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.360 at the top of Everest to live there forever, more 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:03.880 in case than ice when I get up there. 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.360 Yeah, and I'm sure he probably took it with him 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.120 on the first expedition, But the first expedition wasn't planning 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.440 on summoning Everest. But from what I gather from Mallory, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.959 he would have been down to give it a shot 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.280 that first time out. Like that's how obsessed with Everest 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:25.000 that man became, right, and he actually was really successful. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.400 The expedition was this was again the first expedition by 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.800 the English to map Everest, and they managed to do it. 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.840 They managed to find a way onto Everest what's called 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.320 the North Call, which is a ridge that connects one 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.360 mountain to another, and they found that North Call which 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.040 is the way still today. If you're coming from the 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.480 north from the Tibetan side up Everest, you still use 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.080 that route that these guys mapped in nineteen twenty one. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.560 Yeah, and it's important to point out which side that 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.640 they would have gone up then and what side you 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.079 go up now, because there is a route that China 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:08.440 kind of secured and basically has held that Americans can't go, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.560 and that'll be a key sort of later on in 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.200 this mystery. So put it bin in that. 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.320 Yeah, because China invaded Tibet in nineteen fifty and said 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.880 this side of the mountain is closed to Westerners. But 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.160 this happened. That happened to three decades after Mallory and 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.240 his expeditions, so they were using that north route, and 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.800 still to this day. The north route is considered technically 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.720 more difficult because it requires you to spend more time 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:40.600 at higher elevations with its attendant lower oxygen concentration, which 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.920 makes the whole thing way harder. And then secondly, the 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.439 way in through the north route requires twenty two miles 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.600 of walking just to get from base camp to the top, 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.120 whereas the south route, which is what Westerners use today 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.760 coming from the Nepalese side is about twelve and three 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.640 quarter miles of walking. Nothing to sneeze that still, but yeah, 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.000 it just kind of underscores the just how hard the 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.040 things that these guys were doing with zero equipment. 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.439 All right, so I think it's a good time for 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.520 a break. Sure, I'm gonna finally sort out the difference 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:16.600 between Hillary and Mallory. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.280 It sounds like an eighties sitcom. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.200 No, all right, So I'm gonna work all that out 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:25.160 and we'll be right back. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:28.960 Stuff you should know. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.080 Okay, we're back, and I want to go over a 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.320 little more about when you how you get to a mountain. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:54.960 And we don't have to go in great detail, but 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.520 you're basically going up one mountain to get to that 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.200 ridge that connects that small mountain to Everest, the taller mountain, right, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:07.640 But to get there requires hiking, mountain climbing, ice climbing, 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.040 rock climbing, every kind of climbing you can imagine. And 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:13.560 one of the first things you have to do, no 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.840 matter whether you come from the north route or the 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.040 south rout is cross a glacier and that is way 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.440 harder than it sounds. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.960 Yeah, I mean, this thing is you know surrounded in 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.440 part by glaciers, and like you said, there are so 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.600 many different disciplines if you're going to do something like Everest, 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:37.440 and especially in nineteen twenty one twenty two, that I 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.640 just don't think we can overstate like the near impossibility 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.160 of this feet at the time. 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.480 Yeah, especially with the glacier. There's crevasses. They can be 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.520 really deep, you know, one hundred or more feet deep, 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.240 and you can fall into that and die. There can 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.760 be ice slides it's also known as avalanches. They can 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.800 come and bury you. There's something called I think seacres, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.000 which are how size blocks of ice that you sometimes 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.680 have to climb that you could also topple and be 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.640 crushed by. Like that's just the glacier. That's like the 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:13.080 first obstacle to get toward the mountain. And again they 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.040 were doing this with zero equipment. 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.760 Yeah, I mean we did. We did a whole episode 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:18.840 on ice climbing, right. 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:20.200 We totally did. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.800 And I remember so we talked about sea coorse. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.800 Okay, good, all right? Yeah, I thought it sounded familiar, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.920 and I also was like, yeah, ice climbing is really hard. 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.760 I know that from experience and researching it. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:36.880 Yeah, well I mean this one. The sharp episode was 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.360 really good. Ice climbing was good. I believe we did 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.240 one on dead bodies on Everest. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.000 Yeah, and a long time ago we did one on 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:45.360 altitude sickness too. 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.560 Yeah. So this all comes together. Point is it's really 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.840 really hard and there are so many ways to die. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.120 Yeah, what else wants to kill you up there, Chuck? 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.960 That they weren't aware of until that nineteen twenty one expedition. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:16:59.160 The yetti. 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.840 Yeah, that's where the YETI was introduced, or at least 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.680 the concept was introduced to Westerners who brought it back, 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.199 and then I believe on a later, like nineteen fifty 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.560 one expedition, a guy named Eric Shipton took some photos 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.040 of what were supposed to be Yetti tracks, and that's 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.919 when like the West really went wild for the Yetti. 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.680 That's right, So let's catch ourselves up. It's September twenty fourth, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.320 nineteen twenty one, when they reach the North Coal and 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.960 this is where they're like, all right, we think this 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:34.399 is it. We think we have found a path that 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.280 can actually get us. They didn't realize there would one 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.720 day be an easier path, probably, but they said, we 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.960 think this is the way to go. And it should 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.680 be noted that not only these expedition trips to sort 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.080 of map things out, but each subsequent attempt to ascend 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:54.199 Everest that ended up in I don't want to say failure, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.120 but I guess it is failure if they didn't accomplish 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.080 it devastating. But each one of yet, each one of 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.719 those is really important too, because you know, every higher 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.439 peak that you get to, you're able to sort of 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.640 establish of course not everywhere, but you're able to establish 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.200 camps along the way, right, and these camps are then 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:18.119 used later on as you know, base camps like one, two, three, four, five, six, 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.800 et cetera. In fact, it maybe six might have been 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.560 the highest camp at the time, right. 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:23.920 Yeah, yeah, for sure. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.959 And then so but it's super important to establish that 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.720 for like all the hikers to come. Just because it 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.800 was a failed attempt doesn't mean a lot of great 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:33.960 stuff wasn't accomplished. 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.639 Yeah, because if you are hiking or you're climbing up 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.440 a mountain and there's a higher camp that you're coming 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.800 up to, you can make your way over the day 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.080 to that camp and then just stay there for the night. 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.840 If there's not a higher camp you have to turn 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.840 around at some point and make your way to that 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.560 next lower camp to survive. Yeah, you cannot be caught 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:58.240 overnight on Everest anywhere at these elevations that these guys 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.680 are hiking at without tent and or a sleeping bag, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.760 or you're going to die. That's all there is to it. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.119 A human being can't survive on the you know, the 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.160 higher altitudes of Everest without that kind of stuff. So, yes, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.320 establishing a camp is an enormous thing. But also they're 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:19.240 learning stuff firsthand about how humans respond to low oxygen concentrations, 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.240 what the weather conditions are, like, what time of year 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.080 you can hike, Like every detail is a brand new 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.479 novel detail that is really crucial in understanding how to 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:29.800 get to the top eventually. 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.000 Yeah, like what time of day you have to start 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.920 out in order to get up there and safely get 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:42.000 back down. Because some people, including Hillary, Yes, Hillary, and 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.479 it's a thorny subject, but some people, as far as 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.919 the Mystery of Mallory goes, some people don't consider it 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:52.600 a successful ascent unless you come back down. And that's 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.560 kind of the thing. And I think Hillary was one 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:56.960 of those, and his family also said, Hey, listen, not 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.520 to slag anyone, but we kind of only consider it 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.080 a success if you go up and you're able to 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.680 come back down and live to tell about it, essentially. Yeah, 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.680 And I think that was which is an interesting point. 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.119 Yeah, but I think that point was made by Hillary himself, 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.680 which is kind of saying yeah, he's yeah, He's like, well, 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:17.360 I mean, even if you've made it to the top, 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:18.080 it doesn't count. 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.720 Like I'm doing this interview right now. 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.160 Right I'm sitting here. So there's one thing I want 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.320 to point out that I don't know has become clear yet. 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.520 It's clear to me because we did this research and 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.840 I found out what the deal was. But you might 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.600 be asking yourself why was mountain climbing so big at 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.640 this time? Why were these people doing this? And there's 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.920 a really good explanation for that. Ever, itself was considered 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.919 the third Pole because people had already made it to 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.320 the South Pole and the North Pole. We didn't yet 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.960 have the technology to explore the deep ocean or space, 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.159 and we had been almost everywhere else on Earth. So 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.960 this was like the last place for humans to I 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.240 guess basically conquer or pit their endurance against. And that's 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:01.879 why it was so attractive to people. 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.280 Yes, and that was a very eloquent way to say that. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.359 I think we should mention that Mallory himself is the 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.160 very person who very famously coined the term because it's 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.080 there when asked why they would try to do something 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.679 like this, Yeah, why climb mountains because it's there? 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.480 That alone makes him just worth remembering. You know what 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:25.840 a cool response. 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.440 Absolutely, why are you going to eat big mac because 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:29.920 it's there? 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.400 Everything that's ever come since then where somebody says because 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:37.840 it's there, you're actually quoting George Mallory, that's right. 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.919 All right. So let's talk for a second about oxygen. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.480 Low oxygen is no good for the human body. And 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.520 we've mentioned several times that your oxygen levels are very 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.800 low when you're ascending Everest. And these days they make 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.879 it really easy on you, it's all. You know, the 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.720 kind of oxygen and they take is very easy to take. 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.720 They make it very user friendly. But back then they 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:10.320 had like glassed bottles of oxygen that were carried in 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.560 like wooden crates, and it was a real pain to 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.640 get there. It was super super heavy. But they knew 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.000