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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Bob Leftsett's podcast. My guest today

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Speaker 1: is longtime agent Wayne Quorte. Wayne, you emailed me that

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Speaker 1: it was the fifth anniversary of NIDO, the National Independent

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Speaker 1: Talent Organization. Tell me what NIDO is.

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Speaker 2: NIDO is an advocacy group formed during COVID right at

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Speaker 2: the outset actually, which is now about one hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty members of independent managers and independent talent agents, so

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Speaker 2: basically talent representatives.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And how did it get started and what does

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Speaker 1: it do?

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Speaker 2: So just as COVID set in, I should say, ar

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Speaker 2: who was a twenty twenty I guess in April, maybe

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Speaker 2: second or third week in April, when I guess most

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Speaker 2: of us realized that we're going to be home for

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Speaker 2: more than two weeks. Frank Riley from High Road Touring

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Speaker 2: sent an email out to a whole bunch of agents.

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Speaker 2: You know. Copied on the email and asked he said,

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Speaker 2: I said, actually that he had had some conversations with

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Speaker 2: some of the large promoters. He was involved with a

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Speaker 2: call conference call possibly and they were, you know, discussing

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Speaker 2: what was going to happen, you know, what what could

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Speaker 2: be done? What was you know, the you know, the visions,

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Speaker 2: the idea, what was ahead of us, you know, that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing, things that we were thinking about at

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Speaker 2: home individually, all on our own, and asked if we

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Speaker 2: were interested to have a conference call to discuss it,

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Speaker 2: which everybody immediately said yes, because we all had no

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Speaker 2: idea what was coming up and how we were going

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Speaker 2: to stay open and how we were going to stay

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Speaker 2: in business. So we had one or two calls, you know,

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Speaker 2: like a check in, and then we checked in like

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Speaker 2: a week or so later, and you know, maybe on

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Speaker 2: the third call or so, somebody said, hey, maybe we

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Speaker 2: should form an organization, and which was interesting because we

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Speaker 2: were really at the time about sixteen sixteen or so

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Speaker 2: agencies at the time. Let me back up a second,

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Speaker 2: So these were all agencies at that point, so about

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Speaker 2: sixteen of us roughly agencies, and I think there were

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Speaker 2: nineteen people because a couple of them had two people

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Speaker 2: on the call. We were all competitors day to day,

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Speaker 2: competitors spoke to you know, maybe a couple of us

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Speaker 2: spoke to each other, but really, you know, didn't spend

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Speaker 2: any time together, didn't really you know, didn't go out

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Speaker 2: to dinner and hang out, so to speak. You know

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Speaker 2: some of us, some of us were friendly, but I'd

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Speaker 2: say sixteen we weren't necessarily and what had happened was

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Speaker 2: due to this you know pandemic. We all realize that

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Speaker 2: we're in the same box or the same boat, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden it became kind of a brotherhood.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's independent. Who is independent and who does not

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Speaker 1: qualify as being independent?

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Speaker 2: So the independent definition is you know, a little bit loose,

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Speaker 2: but not at the same time. So it's no, no

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Speaker 2: internationally owned you know agency, So not like an agency

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Speaker 2: here that's owned or controlled by a group in London

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Speaker 2: or Canada. Let's say, no corporates, you know. No, it

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Speaker 2: has to be at least fifty one percent minimum fifty

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Speaker 2: one percent owned and operated. So it can't be you know,

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Speaker 2: something where it's just a you know, an adjunct or

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Speaker 2: a you know, a subdivision or whatever you want to

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Speaker 2: call it of a corporate. We can't be controlled or

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Speaker 2: financed by a fund or a bank. We can't be

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Speaker 2: a public company.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Of the one hundred and forty members today, how

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Speaker 1: many agencies.

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Speaker 2: Is that roughly half? So what happened from the initial

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Speaker 2: start was as we when we decided to form a

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Speaker 2: you know, let's form an organization. We immediately discussed bringing

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Speaker 2: other people in. Initially we talked about bringing managers in,

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Speaker 2: tour managers, artists, basically all or any independence that were

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Speaker 2: kind of out there, you know, they needed a lifeboat,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, because at this point we were in

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Speaker 2: survival mode. We weren't looking to thrive, we were just

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Speaker 2: looking to survive. So we started by you know, picking

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Speaker 2: up all these people that you know around us that

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Speaker 2: we did business. But at as we defined it to

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Speaker 2: become an organization, and as we set our sites to

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Speaker 2: jump in with other organizations to start lobbying our representatives

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Speaker 2: for financial help for aid, we brought on lobbyists.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, well, let's low down a little bit. You

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Speaker 1: formed the organization's lobbyists costs money?

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Speaker 2: Correct?

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Speaker 1: How organized was NIDO and where did the money come from?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and I am jumping ahead because it's all

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Speaker 2: it's all kind of an entangled ball, you know, like

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Speaker 2: a bullus spring bull, a string that's all tangled. So

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Speaker 2: when we decided to form an organization, we decided that

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Speaker 2: we'd be a nonprofit. We knew we'd had to, you know,

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Speaker 2: form a nonprofit entity. We'd have to hire an attorney.

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Speaker 2: This is even before we decided to go into the

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Speaker 2: lobbyist mode. So what we did was each of us,

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Speaker 2: each of the companies, threw in fourth thousand dollars out

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Speaker 2: of our own pockets at the time, and we took

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Speaker 2: that sixteen whatever it was times for is what sixty

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Speaker 2: sixty four thousand dollars. We took that, and then we

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Speaker 2: hired an attorney. We knew were eventually we're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to have an accountant. We started, uh, you know, we

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Speaker 2: came up with a name, we started to organize, putting

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Speaker 2: together a nonprofit organization, nonprofit corporation. We also set out

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Speaker 2: to form you know, set up bylaws, so we had

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Speaker 2: to have an attorney to do that. So that's where that

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Speaker 2: funding came from. And then not too far after that,

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Speaker 2: or too soon after that, I should say, we realized that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the only way we were going to really

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Speaker 2: be able to move forward, if the pandemic was going

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Speaker 2: to extend for a long period of time, which in

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Speaker 2: fact it did, we would have to start talking to

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Speaker 2: representatives about some kind of you know, some kind of

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Speaker 2: financial funding to be able to keep our staff together,

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Speaker 2: to be able to keep our businesses together, and we

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Speaker 2: joined and I don't want to jump too far ahead,

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Speaker 2: but we ended up joining up with other organizations. The

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Speaker 2: main one was NEVA, the National Independent Venue Association, who

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Speaker 2: had already been speaking to Amy Klobachar and she was

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Speaker 2: speaking to Senator Cornyn down in Texas. And those were

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Speaker 2: the two that you know, really carried the flag for

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Speaker 2: the bill that later became s VOG, which started out,

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Speaker 2: as you know, as something else and again jumping ahead,

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Speaker 2: but so we started that when we when we realized

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Speaker 2: that we had to get into that kind of a game,

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Speaker 2: we knew that we'd have to get lobbyists. We couldn't

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Speaker 2: do it ourselves. And you know, we couldn't get on

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Speaker 2: a train and go to DC. Nobody was going anywhere,

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Speaker 2: so it was all gonna have to be virtual, and

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Speaker 2: we didn't frankly, didn't know where to start. So we

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Speaker 2: reached out and we interviewed three different lobbying you know, companies,

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Speaker 2: organizations basically law firms, and we hired a lobbyist. So

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Speaker 2: we had some funds to begin, but we knew that

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Speaker 2: we couldn't at the burn rate of you know, a

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Speaker 2: monthly lobbying fee or consulting fee, if you like. We

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Speaker 2: knew that we couldn't sustain. So what we did was

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Speaker 2: we jumped into fundraising mode. And actually so I at

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Speaker 2: the time, we also you know, elected officers elected him

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Speaker 2: by just saying you're so and so, you're going to

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Speaker 2: be so, and you're going to be so and so so.

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Speaker 2: Frank Riley, who put the whole thing together, really spearheaded.

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Speaker 2: It was the president. We had three vice presidents, people

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Speaker 2: that were you know, actively doing a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: I became secretary and Tom Chauncey became treasurer, and that

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Speaker 2: was our executive committee, and we met almost every day.

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Speaker 2: We did zooms when I said meet, we met by zoom.

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Speaker 2: We did at least once a day. We we did

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Speaker 2: the Board of Directors, which the Board of Directors became

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Speaker 2: the original sixteen. We met at least three times a week.

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Speaker 2: I have to go back to my notes and look

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Speaker 2: bit at least and sometimes executive committee we're meeting twice

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Speaker 2: a day. But we also then broke up into committees

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Speaker 2: because we had to. There were people talking to the lobbyists,

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Speaker 2: there were people that were talking to the other organizations.

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Speaker 2: So we you know, we doled out the responsibilities and

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Speaker 2: off we went UH and I became, by whatever happened

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Speaker 2: stance and timing, I became the head of the fundraising committee.

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Speaker 2: And so we set out to raise funds. And what

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Speaker 2: we did to initially raise funds was we did an

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Speaker 2: instrument auction. We went out to managers and artists and

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Speaker 2: we you know, got UH signed instruments and you know,

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Speaker 2: something that was laying into closets, something special they never used.

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Speaker 2: And we did a but three. We did it in November,

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Speaker 2: I think late November, so we had enough to get

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Speaker 2: through the end of the year. We raised of that

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Speaker 2: year twenty twenty, we raised money, raised about one hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty thousand dollars. I think we were so one

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Speaker 2: hundred twenty hundred thirty. We need probably around one hundred.

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Speaker 2: So once we did that, we figured we had enough

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Speaker 2: to go for the next year, you know, at least

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Speaker 2: a year. We didn't Again, we didn't know how long

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Speaker 2: it was going to take. So it was really a

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Speaker 2: step by step process, and honestly, it was shooting from

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Speaker 2: the hip, and you know, meeting challenges every day and

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Speaker 2: things that we you know, I never did, I never

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Speaker 2: petitioned lobby you know, we were on the phone at

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Speaker 2: least two or three times a week with senators, congressmen,

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Speaker 2: you know, their staffs, you know, giving them the giving

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Speaker 2: them the pitch, basically just explaining to him what what

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Speaker 2: it meant to have the you know, the talent not

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Speaker 2: not around if the agent, the independent agencies weren't around

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Speaker 2: the independent venues. You know, they both needed each other

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Speaker 2: to survive. And the independent venues you know in a

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Speaker 2: lot of markets or a cornerstone, you know, in their

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Speaker 2: main street or downtown area. We did, you know, we

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Speaker 2: did a lot of research. We found a study that

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Speaker 2: said that for every dollar spent on a ticket or entertainment,

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Speaker 2: it was twelve dollars in the local community. So we

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Speaker 2: immediately calculated the numbers and you know, figured out, you

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Speaker 2: know what on an annualized basis. You know, we've just

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Speaker 2: looked at you did quick you know, math, what what

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Speaker 2: the agencies generated, with the artists generated and multiplied by twelve.

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Speaker 2: Came up with some big numbers that the venue association

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Speaker 2: did the same. And then there were other groups too.

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Speaker 2: There were the you know, there was the theaters, and

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Speaker 2: then later there was you know, the the museums. Once

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Speaker 2: the thing started rolling. You know, Schumer got involved, Centator

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Speaker 2: Schumer and there was I think eight stakeholders at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, and the eight of them all

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Speaker 2: had their own lobbyists and all worked you know, in tandem,

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Speaker 2: even though independently to get the word out. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the Venue organization they had about twelve hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 2: maybe back in those days a thousand, but they have

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Speaker 2: almost fifteen hundred members now, and so they had because

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Speaker 2: they had so many members, they were able to do

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Speaker 2: like localized things, you know. They had you know, like

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Speaker 2: state committees and you know, regional things and they'd reach out,

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Speaker 2: they'd have people reaching out in each state. Obviously we

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Speaker 2: had less you know, members, but we tried to get

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Speaker 2: our members to reach out in their states as well.

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Speaker 2: We tried to get some of our artists involved, and

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Speaker 2: we were lucky to do that that, you know, some

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Speaker 2: of them were willing to step up and speak on

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Speaker 2: behalf of the whole movement. And then backing up a

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Speaker 2: few steps. As we were rolling along, we decided to

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Speaker 2: bring members into the organization, sorry, managers into the organization

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Speaker 2: for the boards. Then we started we brought in two

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Speaker 2: or three managers today we have about half and half

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Speaker 2: on the board. Then we had mostly agents, so had

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Speaker 2: half and half and membership wise an answer to your question,

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Speaker 2: roughly half and half. But a lot of them are

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Speaker 2: small operators, you know, one person, two people, small offices.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're not all big companies. It goes from

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Speaker 2: red light at the top to one solo operator at

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Speaker 2: the bottom. So it really covers the span of independence. Really.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. It's easily understood

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Speaker 1: the costs and the losses of a venue as an agent.

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Speaker 1: And as you were on the phone with these people

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Speaker 1: beginning in April, how hurt were the agents? The perception

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Speaker 1: would be your percentage operators. Okay, your costs or overhead

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Speaker 1: is not that high. What was it like to be

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Speaker 1: an agent when everything was shut down?

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Speaker 2: Well, immediately you think about and you're right, your percentage

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Speaker 2: a percentage operator. But we're a percentage operator that operates,

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Speaker 2: you know, day to day. I don't want to say

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Speaker 2: hand to mouth, but hand to mouth, like you earn

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Speaker 2: you put out, you earn you put out. If you're

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Speaker 2: in a major you know, if you're if you're in

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Speaker 2: a major agency situation or a larger business, management company, agency, whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe you generate enough that you have a

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Speaker 2: huge turnover and you have enough to operate and take

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Speaker 2: out a huge profit when you're independent. You know, even

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Speaker 2: even the larger independence if they're a larger company generating

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Speaker 2: more money, but they have a lot more people. So

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Speaker 2: you know, in my position, I may have four or

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Speaker 2: five people. A larger agency may have forty. So even

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Speaker 2: though they're generating a larger amount of money, their payrolls

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Speaker 2: a lot higher, their office space is a lot higher,

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Speaker 2: their travel is a lot higher. So obviously during COVID,

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Speaker 2: we had no travel, so that knocked that out. There

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Speaker 2: was no you know, no t and so that was that.

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Speaker 2: But I still had salaries to pay. I still had

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Speaker 2: at the time, I had my office space. I was

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Speaker 2: trying to negotiate my landlord. He would not give me

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Speaker 2: a break. I was paying the rent every month, and

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Speaker 2: you're paying your phone bill unless you cut your phones off.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we ended up forwarding our numbers to

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Speaker 2: individually to each of the people who worked with me

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Speaker 2: to their cell phones, so you know, those costs were ongoing.

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Speaker 2: So it got to a point. I mean, there was

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Speaker 2: some localized stuff, you know, there was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: New York State had something, New York City had a

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Speaker 2: little something. There was the you know, there was the

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Speaker 2: initial thing where you could file for you know a

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Speaker 2: certain amount of money. You had to get a bank

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Speaker 2: to to approve it. The government you know, uh over

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Speaker 2: oversaw the or backed up the loan. Uh. There was

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Speaker 2: you know, emergency loans you could apply for. I did.

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Speaker 2: I got an emergency loan. It helped for some of it.

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Speaker 2: I'm still paying it off. But you know, you look,

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Speaker 2: you're sitting there and you're looking and you're thinking, Okay,

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Speaker 2: who do I have to lay off? Well? Who who

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Speaker 2: do I have to cut back? What I did was

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Speaker 2: I stopped taking you know, obviously not obviously I stopped

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Speaker 2: taking anything. I immediately stopped taking any draw whatsoever. I

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Speaker 2: just was living on my savings, and I kept continue

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Speaker 2: to pay my staff, you know, as long as I could.

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Speaker 2: I figured I'd pay them as long as I could,

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Speaker 2: and then i'd I'd give them the opportunity to do Listen,

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Speaker 2: if you need to go try something else because I

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Speaker 2: can't pay you anymore, go ahead, if you want to

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Speaker 2: stick around, that's fine. So I didn't have to get

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Speaker 2: to that point, luckily, but that's what I was looking at,

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Speaker 2: and all of us were, you know, in the same position,

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Speaker 2: unless any of us were independently wealthy and could just

281
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Speaker 2: keep floating the whole thing. But you're still at that

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Speaker 2: point in time. You don't know how long it's going

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Speaker 2: to last. Six months, six years. I mean, honestly, we

284
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Speaker 2: all thought it was three weeks and then maybe six months.

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Speaker 2: And then at the same time of doing all this stuff,

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Speaker 2: for instance, we were rebooking tours. I rebooked the tours

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Speaker 2: that I had booked three times during that period because

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Speaker 2: every time we thought, okay, it's going to be six months, Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a year. And I remember when

290
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Speaker 2: I said, okay, it's going to be next year. I

291
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Speaker 2: remember calling my managers and saying, I'm going to rebook

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Speaker 2: it for next year. But honestly, I just have this

293
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Speaker 2: feeling that it's not going to be next year. I

294
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Speaker 2: think it might be two years. So I'm going to

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Speaker 2: book next year and I'm going to hold the year after,

296
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Speaker 2: which is what I did. And I had to roll

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Speaker 2: into that third one. And then I had one client

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Speaker 2: who when COVID was kind of over over here or

299
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Speaker 2: just starting to Wane, No, unintended. He didn't want to

300
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Speaker 2: go overseas and I had an overseas tour. He said,

301
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Speaker 2: I don't want to be in Europe, and if there's

302
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Speaker 2: an issue, I have to shut down and I have

303
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Speaker 2: to ship everything back and pay everybody and you know,

304
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Speaker 2: pay deposits on things. He said, I really don't feel comfortable.

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Speaker 2: So I had to rebook that one the fourth time.

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Speaker 2: That was the toughest one because it wasn't There wasn't

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Speaker 2: an easy out on that one. Everybody wasn't Yeah, okay, fine,

308
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Speaker 2: they were like, really, there's other people touring. But the

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Speaker 2: fact of the matter is we didn't know. It could

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Speaker 2: have sparked back up at any time.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you form the organization degrees, you know, four

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Speaker 1: k from each individual. What is the goal? What is

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Speaker 1: the agenda? When do you say and what do you say?

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Speaker 1: Do you say, Hey, our main agenda is getting money

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Speaker 1: for the people working for us and for agencies. We

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Speaker 1: need to get it from the federal government. Walk me

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Speaker 1: through what the thoughts were then.

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Speaker 2: Well, the initial thought was we need to get money

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Speaker 2: for everybody. That's everybody in the ecosystem. So we were

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Speaker 2: again we were working along. At the time, we were

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Speaker 2: working very closely with NIVA. That's before we officially join

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Speaker 2: the if you want to call it the consortium or whatever,

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Speaker 2: right the stakeholders as they called it. We were working

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Speaker 2: with them, and there was other organizations working as well,

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Speaker 2: and there was a there was a larger bill that

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Speaker 2: was truck that was being that was put out, that

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Speaker 2: was trying to that they were trying to, you know,

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Speaker 2: get through that would have covered a lot of the people,

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Speaker 2: right the workers backstage and the artists and the and

330
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Speaker 2: the crews and all those people. So initially we were

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Speaker 2: pushing for that. We were pushing it and then and

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Speaker 2: I guess this is one of the reasons why you

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Speaker 2: have lobbyists, well two reasons. The first reason is to

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Speaker 2: be where you can't be, which is Washington, d C.

335
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Speaker 2: Or wherever it is. You need to be right talking

336
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Speaker 2: to whomever needs to be spoken to. Also, they have

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Speaker 2: the relationships just as we would if somebody wants a

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Speaker 2: tour they call an agent because we have the relationships.

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Speaker 2: They have those relationships. So in talking to them and

340
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Speaker 2: discussing it and pushing for it, you know, the feed

341
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Speaker 2: what happens is an interesting process. You know, the feedback comes,

342
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Speaker 2: and somebody will say, and again, I wasn't directly speaking

343
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Speaker 2: to the to the to the congressional people's staffs on

344
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Speaker 2: the hill, although we did have you know, our interview

345
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Speaker 2: whatever you want to call them, our interviews or our

346
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: conversations with them individually set up, you know, strategic to

347
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 2: push certain areas that we needed to push people that

348
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 2: weren't in favor, to try to talk them into it

349
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Speaker 2: or explain why they should back it, that it wasn't

350
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Speaker 2: just to give money away, but that it was actually

351
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Speaker 2: going to help you know, their constituents and their cities

352
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Speaker 2: and their areas, because they depended a lot of these

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Speaker 2: you know a lot of these I'm getting to a

354
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Speaker 2: sidebar for a sec but a lot. And I just

355
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Speaker 2: had this. I just came back from a conference. It

356
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: was there Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. It was out in

357
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Speaker 2: mil Milwaukee, and we were talking to some you know

358
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 2: people there and they'll tell you themselves, you know, people

359
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 2: that own restaurants and hotels when when these events happen,

360
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Speaker 2: When these concerts happen. Obviously the bigger ones are even

361
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Speaker 2: more important, but even the smaller ones. People come into

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Speaker 2: town from out of town, you know, from the suburbs,

363
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: or from at fly in from out of town, depending

364
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Speaker 2: on how big it is. They stay at hotels, they eat,

365
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Speaker 2: they take taxis, they park cars, they pay babysitters, They

366
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Speaker 2: go to the local pharmacy, they go to CV, you know,

367
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Speaker 2: whatever it is. They they're there spending money, you know,

368
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Speaker 2: because this thing's happening. Take away them movie theater, which

369
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 2: was also going to go down the tube. That was

370
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Speaker 2: one of the other stakeholders. Take away the movie theater

371
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Speaker 2: and take away the concert venue, the theater or the club.

372
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Speaker 2: Let's say it's a theater in a club and a

373
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Speaker 2: movie theater. Take those out of the system. And what

374
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Speaker 2: are they going downtown for? To shop? To a restaurant?

375
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Speaker 2: But they go to restaurants when they go to shows. Right,

376
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 2: A lot of people, not everybody, but they're going out

377
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: because they're going out, you know. They're parking in garages

378
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: because they're coming in to do that. Yes, some people

379
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: come into park to go shopping. But they may come

380
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 2: in and go shopping. They may come in and see

381
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Speaker 2: one of the concerts. They may stay over the weekend

382
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 2: and go to a theater. You go to the theater

383
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 2: one night and the Broadway Theater groups were in on

384
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: it too. They were one of the stakeholders. So, you know,

385
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: getting back to your question, we were trying to get

386
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Speaker 2: more of a broad thing going, but word came back

387
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 2: to us that it wasn't going to go through. That

388
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 2: was the word from the hill. They said, you can

389
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: spend your time doing it if you want, but it's

390
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 2: not going to pass. They said, there's this other bill

391
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: that looks like it's going to pass. It it's more focused,

392
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: it's more on the you know, the venue use specifically

393
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 2: because of the reason I just explained to you. You know,

394
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: you take all those venues away, and in some towns,

395
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: you know Sixth Street in Austin, Texas, what happens if

396
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: all those clubs are out of business? There is no

397
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: Sixth Street, right, You take some of these you know

398
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: clubs out of business, you know the Greenwich Village, right,

399
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 2: all those clubs go out. You get some pizza places

400
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 2: and some restaurants down there. But what else you're gonna

401
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: do down there? No jazz, no pop, no you know,

402
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: in indie music or whatever. So so that bill was

403
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 2: seemed to be that, Yeah, that one bill seemed to

404
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: be or thought of a bill. Proposal of a bill

405
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: seemed to be gaining traction, so we focused ourselves on that.

406
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: We figured, we've got to cover something, you know, we've

407
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: got to be able to keep this thing going as

408
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: best we can, because at the end of the day,

409
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 2: if there are no tours, those other people and there

410
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: are no venues the other people were trying to help

411
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: aren't gonna have jobs anyway. They're gonna be looking for

412
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 2: other work. So this at least keeps them in a

413
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: place where they can have a job, you know, the

414
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: potential of having a job. So we decided to jump

415
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: on that bandwagon. And that's where the you know, where

416
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 2: as I said, these eight major stakeholders started focusing was

417
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: to try to get this through and then the you know,

418
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: in the end it did go through.

419
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about the consolat ship and you talk

420
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: about the stakeholders. There's NEVA, there's NITO, who else, if anybody.

421
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: There was an organization I think called NATO, which was

422
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: the I think National Association of Theater Owners, right and

423
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: that and that was I think movie theaters. Uh, there

424
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 2: was the Broadway League or a Broadway group. Right, there

425
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: were Broadway theaters right there with that group. Later on

426
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 2: there was the museums and the aquariums. I don't know

427
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: if they had a specific group, but there was that.

428
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: That was a that was a Senator Schumer thing for sure.

429
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think there was eight of them. I

430
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 2: don't remember them all off hand.

431
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: So in a perfect world there we kum bay ah.

432
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: But certainly Broadway tends to look down on certain things.

433
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: Certain things generate more money as agents. How big a

434
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: seat did you have at the table? Into what degree

435
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: we listened to?

436
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: Well that was the interesting thing, Bob. So how big

437
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: a steed I don't know, But the reality is we

438
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: had a seat, and we never did and even if

439
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: it was a small seat, we had a seat, and

440
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: we had a voice, and it was listened to. And

441
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: we had to just not sit back and let the

442
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: lobbyists do the talking because really they have the seat

443
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: right at the table on the hill. But we got

444
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: you know, as I said, we were on the phones,

445
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: and we were when we broke up into groups. You know,

446
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: our people from New York would get on the phone

447
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 2: with the New York representatives, people from Nashville would get

448
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: on the phones with the Tennessee representatives. I live in Connecticut,

449
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: That's where my home is. I was on the phone

450
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: with the Connecticut people right and on the call. I

451
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: arranged the call, and I had a couple of theater people,

452
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: I had a promoter or two I had myself. So

453
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: the idea was to bring you know, the different groups

454
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: together so they could hear from all of us. They

455
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: could hear from the theater directly, they could hear from

456
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: the promoter directly. They can hear from the agent. Oh,

457
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: and they had a manager. So we tried to have

458
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: as many you know, people as we could on the

459
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: on the phones and they listened, so we had a voice. Yes,

460
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 2: we did have a voice.

461
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: Okay. When the bill was ultimately passed, where were the

462
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: agencies in this and how did it ultimately play out

463
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: with the money?

464
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: Where were the agencies? What do you mean by where

465
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: were the agencies?

466
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: Okay, there was a pool of money. You had to

467
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: apply for the money. Correct, there were all these stories.

468
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: You heard for sure, they're going to run out of money.

469
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: Then you heard that not enough people were applying at

470
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: the end of the day. How did it work out

471
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: for the agencies?

472
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: So the agencies and the managers, Okay, the talent, let's

473
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: call it talent representatives. Okay, let me step back one

474
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: more step, just to clarify or whatever add to the story.

475
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: So when we focused in on talent representatives, agents and

476
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: managers did so when we set up the organization because

477
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: our lobbyists suggested to us that when you're dealing with

478
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: the hill, you need to be again, you need to

479
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: be focused. So talent representatives, agents and managers, no matter

480
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: what sports music wouldever have the same NASIS code, okay,

481
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: which is the code that you use your company or

482
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: yourself use on your tax return. So my company, a

483
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: management company, whatever, sports agent, et cetera, we all use

484
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: the same NASIS code. So we went by that code.

485
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: Anyone with that code can join our organization basically, and

486
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 2: so we formed it based on that and it became,

487
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: as I said, talent representative. So theoretically we could have

488
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: sports agents and managers joined too, because we're a talent

489
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 2: representative or talent organization, international organization. So for the talent organization,

490
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: roughly there was sixteen billion in the bill, okay at

491
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: the end of the day. Initially they had a number

492
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 2: they were looking at and they were there was going

493
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 2: back and forth and the conversations were is it enough money?

494
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: You know? And the initial number that they came up

495
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: with is what you're discussing or alluding to the original

496
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: number that they came up was thought to not be enough.

497
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: What they asked for was each of the organizations to say,

498
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: how much do you think you need okay for you know,

499
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: to repay and to stay open for whatever period two years,

500
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: whatever that period was, I don't remember off the top

501
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 2: of my head, but you know, for this period and

502
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: they and they were periods. It was set up with

503
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: the SBA overseeing it, and there was like these this

504
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: period that you had to apply for within that periods

505
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: certain income and it had to reflect you know, going

506
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: back I think two or three years or something some

507
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: an average and I have to pull out my notes

508
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: to see what the thing was. It was. There was

509
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: a lot of calculating going on and you had to

510
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 2: go through you know, a uh request, you know uh

511
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: uh process. They set up a website for it, which

512
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: crashed initially, by the way, and everybody's freaking out because

513
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: you had the time period within to register. Uh. So

514
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: there was so at the end of the day they

515
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 2: did they estimated, re estimated and estimated again, they came

516
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: up with the number of six billion. That was for

517
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: all of these different scenarios. Okay, the talent representatives ended

518
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: up with around nine hundred million dollars the independence. Okay,

519
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: roughly that was our share, so just under a billion.

520
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: The rest of the money, I couldn't tell you where

521
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: it went, but you know it was all those different scenarios.

522
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: The theaters, the quariums, the museums, the movie theaters, you know,

523
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: all those things.

524
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: Uh, you know.

525
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: Broadway, That's where all the money went. You applied for it,

526
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: you got the you got the grant if they if

527
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: you were approved. And then what they did was they

528
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: had additional funds available. They did after everyone applied, which

529
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 2: again is probably what you're referring to. It's almost like

530
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: we had too much. But maybe it's because some people

531
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 2: didn't apply, maybe their numbers didn't work out, or maybe

532
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: their calculations were overestimated. I mean mine were pretty tight

533
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: and what they weren't questioned, thank god. And I got

534
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: what I you know, what I applied for. And so

535
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: they did a second round. After that, there was like

536
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: a supplemental phase you could apply for and you know,

537
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. I'm not sure exactly

538
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: how much was used out of the sixteen billion. But

539
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: there's also something I learned, you know, in the whole

540
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: government process, like once they they approved something and they

541
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: decided that's the number, they don't want to give it back.

542
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: They didn't want to say, oop here, put it back

543
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: over here, which I think is ridiculous. But hopefully nobody

544
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: shoots me for saying that on this but I think,

545
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: you know, honestly, I think it's ridiculous. But so it's like, Okay,

546
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,719
Speaker 2: we have too much, you can have some more, but

547
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: you know, it goes according to you know, what it

548
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: was you applied for. So it wasn't like you got

549
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: double your money. You got like a little bit extra

550
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: over here. But you know, I, you know, I got mine.

551
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: And before you even asked the question, and I don't

552
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 2: know if you're going to I'm going to answer it.

553
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: I had gotten to a point when I realized this

554
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: thing was going to go for a long time. I

555
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,239
Speaker 2: had a conversation with my staff and I said, I'm

556
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: not going to lay anybody off, but I'm going to

557
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: have to cut back for right now because I've got

558
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 2: to try to work within my means, I'm not going

559
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: to take anything, but I'll need everybody to reduce like

560
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: twenty five percent of something. Is that okay? And everybody

561
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 2: said yes, that was fine. So I did that and

562
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: we went along our merry way. Everybody got paid, but

563
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: they got paid at a lesser, lesser rate. And then

564
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: when I did get the money, I sent checks to

565
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: everybody or wires and I paid them back for the

566
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: money that they didn't they didn't get. And I had

567
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: one of my one of my employees who actually called

568
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 2: me and said, why are you sending me this money?

569
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: I said, because I owe it to you, And I said, no,

570
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: you don't. I said, yes, I do. I owe it

571
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: to you, so keep it. Do something. I don't care

572
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: what you do with it.

573
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: So essentially everybody was made whole.

574
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: More or less.

575
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, let's shift gears a little bit. Neither. The

576
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: Venue Association just had a conference and they put out

577
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: a report. I believe the number was sixty four percent

578
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 1: of venues don't make money. How the hell is it

579
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: a sustaining business?

580
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: Well, they're saying I was at that conference, by the way,

581
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: that's where I was this week. They're saying that that

582
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: it's not a sustaining business for them, and that you know,

583
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: twenty five or thirty percent of their members are going

584
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: to go out of business at the rate or something

585
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: like that. I don't want to be quoted on it,

586
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: but that's around that number, which is not just similar

587
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: to what was happening overseas in the UK. They lost

588
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: a you know, a a good portion of the bottom

589
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: segment of the business. And you know of the of

590
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: the small clubs and you know, small small, even small festivals.

591
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: I mean they've had a number of them just shut down,

592
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: go out of business. In reality, it see the problem

593
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to defend it because I'm not

594
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: in that business, so I can't defend it, you know,

595
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: I can't say, yeah, it's true, they're you know, they're

596
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: all sixty five percent not maybe they're not operating properly,

597
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: but but it's not. It's a it's a difficult business

598
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: to sustain for a whole number of reasons. People are

599
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: drinking less, that's the reality, especially the younger generation, so

600
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: they for a long time depended on bar sales. One

601
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: of the arguments that the ACT, and I'll just say

602
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: this as a talent represented one of the arguments is

603
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: that the acts charged too much. Okay, the deals are

604
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: what the deals are. If a venue or a promoter

605
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: doesn't want the act, they can say no. The artist,

606
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: you know, either needs or or commands a certain amount.

607
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: A young artist on the road today and I said

608
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: this at the conference too, in a meeting that I

609
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: had with a bunch of their people, I said, if

610
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: you don't realize, and maybe you don't, a young artist

611
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 2: today on the road needs about a minimum roughly of

612
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: about twenty five thousand dollars a night. And I'm talking

613
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: on low level, not on a even a medium level.

614
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: You need about twenty five thousand dollars a night just

615
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: to sustain and that's making no profit, that's just paying

616
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: to be on the road. Back in the day, as

617
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: we call it, the old days, labels subsidized that for

618
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: new artists and for the ones that had new albums out,

619
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: they got some subsidy as well. But these artists today

620
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: that are going out and there's really no record label

621
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: to subsiden I mean there are record labs, but not

622
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: subsidizing anything. These guys are subsidizing it on their own.

623
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: So where are they making their money, making their money

624
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: on merch sales like that's and when I say making money,

625
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: maybe they make a profit. I had a client on

626
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: the road recently and their profit was all in their

627
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: merchandise sales. That's where their profit was. They made nothing

628
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: at the end of the day from what they took

629
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: on the road. So the whole segment of the business

630
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: is difficult to sustain, not just theirs. But I can

631
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 2: understand it because people either aren't going out as much.

632
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: They also stay a lot of them, not all of them,

633
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: stay open multiple nights a week because they you know,

634
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: they want to be open, they want to continue the business,

635
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: but their bar seals being down, and then they're increasing

636
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: their price on drinks to make up the difference, and

637
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: then people are buying less. They may be drinking, but

638
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: they're buying less because beers were ten bucks, maybe now

639
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: they're twenty so or whatever fifteen and so maybe instead

640
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: of three they buy two, or maybe instead of two

641
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: day buy one. So there's that issue. Rents are going up,

642
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: insurance is going up. You know, their fees just continue

643
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: to increase, and there's only a certain amount they can increase. Tickets.

644
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the smaller level. I'm not talking about

645
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: the high end, talking about the bottom end. I mean,

646
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: they can increase them, but this is a certain point

647
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: which is which it becomes the diminishing returns. Right, keep

648
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: increasing ticket prices, then you get lesson less people, and

649
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: then they're back in the same boat that they were before.

650
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: So it's a listen, it's a business I wouldn't want

651
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: to be in. I can tell you that it's a

652
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: tough business.

653
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. The act has to get paid

654
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars a night.

655
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: No, no, a week, a week a week.

656
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: Okay.

657
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just to cover costs. I'm talking about small.

658
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's just flesh it out a little bit. Yeah,

659
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: if it's twenty five k a week, how many people

660
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: in the bands? How much infrastructure, how much you know, equipment?

661
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: What are we talking about If it's a being outfit

662
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: for twenty five k a week?

663
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm talking about it again. I'm talking about a

664
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: starting act because as they get a little bigger, it's

665
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: more expensive obviously for things that you're saying right now

666
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: are alluding to. So let's just take you know, an example.

667
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 2: So you got a five piece band, you got two

668
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: people with them on a road. So that's seven okay, crew,

669
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 2: that's tour manager crew. Merged that like all and two

670
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 2: people are doing everything van. They're driving around a sprinter van.

671
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: Their gear is either being pulled in a in a

672
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 2: van or it's in the sprinter but probably most probably

673
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 2: in a van. So it's not there's not a lot

674
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: of gear. It's a drum kit. Let's say, there's keyboards,

675
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: there's three amps, there's some guitars, not a lot of stuff.

676
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: They're doubling up in hotels mostly right, they're not in singles.

677
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: I mean I could, as I said to them when

678
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: I was talking to a bunch of the you know,

679
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: club people, I was saying, look, they could sleep six

680
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: in a room and driving a funky old van that

681
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 2: breaks down all the time. But you know that's not practical.

682
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: So so they you know, they're paying a little bit

683
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: more for let's say a sprintter van, a little bit

684
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: more room. But some of them, some of them are

685
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: in just a nice van, but it's a van and

686
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: they're driving around, and you know, between paying for gas

687
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: and paying they got to pay salaries, you know, unless

688
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: it's a band splitting, what's left which was one of

689
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: the clients I had. And at the end, as I said,

690
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: they only split the merchandise. They didn't make a profit on,

691
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: you know, from ticket sales. So they're driving around, they're

692
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: doing gigs, and if you think about it, they're working

693
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,479
Speaker 2: five nights a week. They're driving two hundred and fifty

694
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 2: to three hundred miles you know, between gigs. Maybe more,

695
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: but probably not because they're not in a tour bus.

696
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: You know, they've got to be paid basically five thousand

697
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: dollars a night, and a lot of these bands are

698
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: getting the grand. Like what about an opening act, it's

699
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: getting five hundred bucks. Okay, maybe it's not twenty five.

700
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: Maybe it's seventeen to five for them because they're sleeping

701
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: six in a room, but still get paid five hundred

702
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 2: bucks two hundred and fifty. How are they making it work?

703
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: They're not. They're not. They're barely living. They want to

704
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: do it because they want to do it, but you

705
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 2: know they're they're not living. You know, it's tough.

706
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: Okay, there are many multiple levels here. Let's start with

707
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: the beginning. You are a talent representative. The acts you're

708
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: talking about, it takes twenty five k you have a

709
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: number of issues. You have the band wants to do

710
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: it because it is hard work, you have to find

711
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: somebody who's going to pay for it. And then you

712
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: have the venue saying we're in the red. So how

713
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: does this play out?

714
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: Well, this is this is what happens every day. So

715
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: they're not saying every day, every single day, oh, we're

716
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: not making any money. We don't do it. They obviously

717
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: need the talent, they need to have shows, They need

718
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: to have performances because they need to keep people coming in.

719
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: So they do. However, you know, you can only use

720
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: lack of a better term, you can only squeeze so

721
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 2: much blood from a stone. So you know what they're

722
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: saying at this point. Why they put that report out,

723
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 2: or one of the reasons they put that report out

724
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: is you know, to show that they're not you know,

725
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: they're not making bank over there. You know they're not.

726
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 2: Oh man, we're all you know, we're going on holiday,

727
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: we're going to Aruba. Was shutting down for a month.

728
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: You know, we're doing great. Some of them are probably

729
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 2: doing great, right and some of them are doing terrible.

730
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: But the ones in between are probably just making it,

731
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: you know, because it's tough. So how does it play out?

732
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 2: It's you know, like every day, you know, it's like

733
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: people go to the store, they buy food, they come home.

734
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 2: When they get home, you know, depending on what kind

735
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 2: of job they have, they have to decide what kind

736
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: of food do I want to buy? How much do

737
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: I want to spend? Do I buy an extra this?

738
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 2: Do I go it out to a dinner more than

739
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: once a week? Do I? You know what I mean.

740
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 2: It's like budgeting. But they still have to keep doing things.

741
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: They got to get to work. And when you know,

742
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: the and you're living in New York City and they

743
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: decide that they're going to increase you know, the metro

744
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: card or the you know, the metro system from you

745
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: know two ninety to three fifty, and they're going to

746
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: increase you know, the George Washington Bridge from you know

747
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: whatever it is now ten bucks or nine to fifty

748
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: or whatever it is to cross to you know, fifteen dollars.

749
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: Or they have the you know two fifty surcharge now

750
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: for driving below sixty fourth Street in Manhattan. All these

751
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: little things for many people don't matter, but for the

752
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: working guy, working woman, that's a big hit. Very similar

753
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: in the clubs, very similar for the acts. So so

754
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: we do the business. They're going to you know, I

755
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 2: just said they're going to work. They're doing their thing.

756
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe they skip a lunch, maybe they

757
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: have less to eat. You know, who knows. They go

758
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 2: out less. One thing always affects the next, and so

759
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: they going out less obviously probably affects the clubs, the

760
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: movies and whatever. But we play out, you know, we're

761
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: talking and making deals all day long. The fact of

762
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: the matter is at the end of the day, they're

763
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: having to do things to make up for it. As

764
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: I said, I probably charging more for drinks or increasing

765
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 2: the fee, increasing the ticket price. The point is they

766
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: have to do something. So how it plays out is

767
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 2: is a constant negotiation back and forth. They're not going

768
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: to not buy talent because they won't be open if

769
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 2: they do that. But maybe they buy different talent, or

770
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: they just say I can't afford it, I'm not taking

771
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 2: this act, or yeah, And what happens when those things happen,

772
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: Bob is a lot of developmental acts are the ones

773
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 2: that suffer, right because they now either have to go

774
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 2: to smaller places locally, and maybe they don't get any guarantee.

775
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: They just to play for the door, which a lot

776
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: of brand new bands do anyway, and it starts to

777
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: kind of warp the system, you know, instead of being

778
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 2: able to build it up. You know, play this place,

779
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,439
Speaker 2: in this place, in this place, in this place. Makes

780
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: it a little bit more difficult if the ones in

781
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 2: the middle are getting really choosy about what they buy,

782
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, I don't want to take

783
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 2: a shot on this. I don't want to take a gamble,

784
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 2: you know, I can't afford to lose money. That starts

785
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: to affect it. So it how it plays out is

786
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 2: it does affect the system. It kind of sets it off,

787
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 2: you know, off rhythm if you like, it's still happening,

788
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: but it's not happening exactly like it was.

789
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: Okay in the old pre Live Nation days, if you

790
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: were an agent and you booked a tour and the

791
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: promoter got hurt, you would give money back for two reasons.

792
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: A to keep the promoter in business. Sometimes these people

793
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: were teetering. Also when you came back through, they would

794
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: book you. So to what degree does that occur with

795
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: independent venues? You're all independence In this case, there's no

796
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: big backstone. So you have an act, it goes in there.

797
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: You need your twenty five k a week, but they

798
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: draw a fifteen or twenty percent crowd. What do you do?

799
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 2: Well, that's a loaded question, but I have to unpack

800
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: it piece by piece. So back in the day, preleb

801
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: Nation days, it's not that everybody that lost money got money,

802
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: but I could. It all came down to relationships, and

803
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: a lot of it was with the act and the

804
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: manager right, not necessarily specifically and strictly with the agent.

805
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: Although yes, there were some of those relationships where agents

806
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: might have gone back and said, hey, give them some

807
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: give them, you know, give a second thought to this

808
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 2: because they got really hurt. But usually it was that

809
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: they really got hit and that was you know, that

810
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 2: could have been anything, that could have been, you know,

811
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 2: a storm. I mean today's world, we have it all

812
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: the time now, but a really bad storm came through

813
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: and everybody thought it was gonna be great, but in

814
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 2: fact there was torrential downpour unless people showed up than normal.

815
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 2: But it wasn't just a club venue. It was like

816
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: a big place and there was like big money on

817
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: the line, and so you know, they would get helped out. Sometimes,

818
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: not all the time, but sometimes in today's world, I'm

819
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: sure those things happen, but not so much for me.

820
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: I can't speak specifically, I because when I'm making the

821
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: deal I try to make I try to make certain

822
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 2: that it makes sense for everybody. Am I one hundred percent? No,

823
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: nobody is, But I try to make sense. And I

824
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: think some of the independence, if not all of them

825
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the talent representatives, have the same sort

826
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: of thought.

827
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: Right.

828
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: It's not about how much can I get at the

829
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: end of the day. Yes, we'd like to get as

830
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: much as we can, but it's not just about Okay,

831
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,919
Speaker 2: let me get as much as I can't worry about

832
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: the rest of later. It's about, you know, does it

833
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: make sense if I'm going to get this, is it

834
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 2: going to make sense or not? And yes, there's going

835
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: to be a time when you have something that happens

836
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: that you can't anticipate. You know, no different than booking

837
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: a tour and than a hurricane comes through and you

838
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 2: lose three shows. You know, it's nothing you can do

839
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: about it. You know, weather's weather, So in this instance,

840
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 2: you just try to be cognizant of it. At least.

841
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: That's that's what I try to do. I try to

842
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: be cognizant. I try to set the deals up to

843
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: they make sense. And at the end of the day,

844
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: if you can, if the one of the managers that

845
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 2: one of the meetings that we had this week actually

846
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: put it in a in a very good way, and

847
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 2: he said, as long as I can make for lack,

848
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: I'll just use an example, he said, if I can,

849
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,760
Speaker 2: you know, if I can, if I can earn seventy

850
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: percent of the door, at the end of the day,

851
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: I don't care how I get there. I don't need

852
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 2: it all up front. Okay, as there are people that don't,

853
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: that don't think that, don't believe that, and don't go

854
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: by that. But but he put it out, you know,

855
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: in a way that made sense, which is it doesn't care.

856
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: As long as he's making what he's got to make

857
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 2: and what he needs to make and what he'd like

858
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 2: to make for his client, he's happy. You know, whichever

859
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 2: way we get there, whichever street leads down to there,

860
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: go around the corner and come back, you know what

861
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: I mean. So does it happen yet, I'm sure it does.

862
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: I try to I try to avoid it if I can't,

863
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:07,479
Speaker 2: you know, I try to avoid it.

864
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: Okay. So we referenced the old days where the labels

865
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: gave tour support, they bought drinks. It venues today. In

866
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: the old days, pre internet days, a all the action

867
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: was outside the house. You needed to go to the

868
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: club to socialize. Okay, you want it to be out

869
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: amongst people. You don't need to do that today. In addition,

870
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: on a developing act, we would hear about an act

871
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: and he went to the club. The price might be

872
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: cheap ten dollars back in the day, because you heard

873
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: about the act, you wanted to see it. That was

874
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 1: the only way to see it. Maybe there was one

875
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: song on the radio, whereas today we have Spotify, we

876
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: have YouTube. Is there a future and what is in

877
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: the future of developing acts for them? The bottom up?

878
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 2: Well, this is and yeah, that's that's a good point

879
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 2: and a good statement and actually kind of reverts back

880
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 2: to what we were talking about a little while ago.

881
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 2: That's another thing that's affecting these clubs. You know, it's

882
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: not the same, you know, the two things rather and

883
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: it's been years now, so it's not like it's just

884
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 2: doing it this, you know, like the next last two years.

885
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: But the whole record company thing that probably happened towards

886
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: the end of the or mid nineties, probably, I would think.

887
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 2: But you're right. And back in the old days, the

888
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: labels bought seats, they bought drinks, right, they bought tickets, right.

889
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 2: They didn't ask for comps. Starting probably in the early

890
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 2: the mid nineties, they started asking for comps, like they

891
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 2: didn't want to buy tickets anymore. Right, that's when all

892
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: the artist development stuff kind of went out the window.

893
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: In today's world, I don't know that they do anything.

894
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 2: I see them occasionally putting tickets on hold. They don't

895
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: even pick them up, you know, they put them on

896
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: hold to buy, but they don't pick them up. So

897
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 2: there's not that support. So when you take that out

898
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: of the you know, out of the out of the system,

899
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 2: you know, that affects you know, these clubs as well.

900
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: So uh and and you're right, Uh, the urgency so

901
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 2: you know, going back to our time, you and me,

902
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: the urgency was like you heard about it, you heard

903
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 2: a track at your friend's house, right, like I got it.

904
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: I got to see this band, we gotta go see

905
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: we gotta go see them? Did you see. By the way,

906
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: did you see the uh you saw the led Zeppelin doc? Right, Yeah,

907
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 2: I'm sure you did. Okay, So I was a big fan.

908
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: I remember hearing them that. Somebody played the track and

909
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, this is you know,

910
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 2: it's just what we're talking about. It's like, you have

911
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: to go out and get the album, you gotta go

912
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: see him. Not so much now, yes, but some of

913
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: that's going on. I at this conference there was a

914
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: young woman I think she was she was involved with

915
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: the club. I think she might have been involved with

916
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: the club, and she was, you know, saying, oh, I

917
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: heard this new act and you got to check them out,

918
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: and it's really good. I just overheard her having a conversation.

919
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 2: They're really great, and I'm going to go out and

920
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: see him. I mean, there's still some of that, but

921
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: but not at the level that there was, because you're right,

922
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: there's alter aternative stuff. There's a lot of people that

923
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: and my daughters did this when they were in high

924
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: school too. You know, when it's ticket sale at ticket

925
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 2: prices went up, you know, and started getting you know,

926
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: higher and higher. They started on the movies more because

927
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 2: it was cheaper back in those days, they were probably

928
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: seven fifty you know whatever, the fifteen bucks now. But

929
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of people that I know

930
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: that have movie passes, right, so they can go as

931
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 2: many as they want. They buy them monthly. So yeah,

932
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: there's a lot of alternative stuff. Plus, you know, there's

933
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: TikTok and there's you know, Netflix, and there's you know,

934
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: zooming with people and whatever. So there is a lot

935
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 2: of competition for that, you know, for entertainment. So in

936
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: answer to the question, it it's really difficult. I can

937
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 2: tell you it's difficult to establish an act and quote

938
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: unquote break it, as we used to say in the

939
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: old days, you know, get them to a point where

940
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 2: you can build an audience for them because there's so

941
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: much else going on. There's so much distraction. And some

942
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 2: of them, depending on the music, you know, what genre

943
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 2: they're in, it happens for talk, you know, those girly

944
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: pop singers, right, the female pop singers, right. A lot

945
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 2: of that's TikTok driven and all of a sudden boom,

946
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 2: they have a huge crowd. And some of it's not

947
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 2: you know, just happened yesterday. Obviously, some of them were Disney,

948
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 2: you know, people, and they came up and you know,

949
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: the kids were watching them on TV for five years,

950
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 2: so there's that base. But if you think about it,

951
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: that's the same system, only it's different now, right that

952
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 2: was our system, like they built. They built it from

953
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: the ground. They saw them on TV. You know, they

954
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: lived with them, they grew up with them, and all

955
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: of a sudden, now they're on stage at Madison Square Gardens,

956
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: so they've known them for years. It's not an overnight

957
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 2: suc sensation. So in trying to build it from ground

958
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: zero with none of that happening is extremely difficult, extremely difficult,

959
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: And for that reason, there's not a lot of headline

960
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: new headliners coming through. There are headline obviously headliners coming through,

961
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 2: but not a lot of new ones, not a lot,

962
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 2: not multitudes like they're used to be. There seems to

963
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 2: be a lot in the middle, and there's a whole

964
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: lot at the bottom that are trying to get up

965
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 2: and break the ceiling or whatever you want to call it.

966
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 2: You know, those waves that we had, except you know,

967
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 2: again putting the pop thing over to the side, because

968
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: that's its own entity now, which is interesting because when

969
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: I started in the business, or actually before I started

970
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 2: the busines when I was a kid, then when you

971
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: were a kid. But that was the thing, right, the

972
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: pop thing. I wasn't a pop guy. I was more

973
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: into the album tracks, but you know that was the

974
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 2: pop thing. Oh one single, I gotta go out and

975
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 2: see them, you know, blah blah blah. So that's what's

976
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: happening now. So growing, it's a real process. It's on

977
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 2: the road because there's really no record action happening. You've

978
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: written about a lot of this. Bob. It's working it

979
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 2: and is trying to build an audience and it's you

980
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: know and literally building them because you just don't find

981
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: them by accident. You don't roll into town and all

982
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,359
Speaker 2: of a sudden there's a thousand people that come see

983
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: you. You know. It's not like it was you know that

984
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 2: happened to hear it on the radio and you didn't

985
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 2: even know they were there. You know, so much different.

986
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: It's a it's a much more grueling game, and you

987
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 2: have to you have to take time. There's a lot

988
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 2: of hit and miss, you know, and there's a lot

989
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 2: of for me anyway, I have to spend a lot

990
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 2: of time, you know, thinking about it, like are they

991
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 2: going to work over here or not. Do I really

992
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 2: need to go out to the Midwest and spend and

993
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 2: have the act spending twenty five let's say, if it's

994
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 2: a new young act, twenty five grand a week to

995
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: work out there for we're not going back for two years.

996
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 2: Or do I better off working over here near where

997
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: they live, you know, doing it regionalized. So I think

998
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 2: there's more of a you know, I think this has

999
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: to be more thought behind it.

1000
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say you're booking clubs, independent clubs. In terms

1001
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: of the negotiation. How much negotiation is there? Is it like, okay,

1002
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: here's the fee, and then what percentage of merch they take?

1003
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: When you're negotiating with an independent venue. What are the

1004
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: deal points?

1005
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 2: Well, those are Those are a lot of the points

1006
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: that we were discussing actually at the conference, which is,

1007
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: you know, there's a couple of ways. There's multiple ways

1008
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 2: you do it. You can go in and say, hey,

1009
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 2: this is the feed, take it or leave it, and

1010
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: you know, I just I just want this and I

1011
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 2: don't care about anything else. Or you can go in

1012
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: and you know you can you can build it from

1013
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: I need a minimum of this, and then I need

1014
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 2: to be able to make this at the end, so

1015
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: and structure it, you know, on a basis where you

1016
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: can earn it if you if you if you draw

1017
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: the people right, you earn it if you earn it,

1018
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: so to speak. The merchandise is again one of these

1019
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 2: tricky areas because the venue wants to have a piece

1020
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 2: of the merch You know, back in the day, the

1021
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 2: artists rolled in and they had a guy that walked

1022
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: around selling shirts and it was like, okay, we sold

1023
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 2: some shirts, you made some money. Or maybe it was

1024
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: as the kids were leaving with the fans, they'd sell

1025
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: it to them on the way out right, not the bootleggers,

1026
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: but actually the artists people, right, they'd be selling them.

1027
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: And then merch merchandise became a thing. I mean now

1028
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 2: there's merchandise companies. Back then it was just then printing

1029
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 2: their own shirts up. So you know Whi's been for

1030
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 2: a long time. But you know now big conglomerate merchandise companies.

1031
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 2: So the merchandise can be as I said to you,

1032
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 2: for the younger at it's really important. As I always

1033
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: saying to some of these you know, venue operators, the

1034
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: merchandise could be profit and loss you know, that could

1035
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 2: be the difference in them making any profit. But even

1036
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 2: more than that, some of these acts, especially if like

1037
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 2: I said earlier, these opening acts that are getting paid nothing,

1038
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: that's how they pay for hotels and fuel. Like if

1039
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: they if they're giving up merchandise or a large percentage

1040
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: of it, that's that's money they need to operate. They're

1041
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: not making a they're not making a profit. They're they're

1042
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 2: on the road because they want to be or they

1043
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 2: think they're going to be successful. Want to be successful, right,

1044
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: or they just love playing music. They're they're using that

1045
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 2: to help them sustain themselves. Like maybe they can stop

1046
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 2: in at Burger King instead of skipping a meal because

1047
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: they have merchandists. I'm not trying to pull anybody's you

1048
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: know what, do you get the tears rolling here? But

1049
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: that's the reality. Some of these guys are like, oh shit,

1050
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: if I you know, if we can sell some merch uh,

1051
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 2: you know, we're good. Because the fuel in a hotel,

1052
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: all right, maybe we're gonna have to stay all in

1053
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 2: one room. Sel sub merch maybe can have two rooms,

1054
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: you know. For the smaller acts, that's the level it's at. Frankly,

1055
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: for larger acts. You know, again, we want to talk

1056
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: about the top ten percent. That's a whole different story.

1057
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 2: You know, that's a corporate, you know, profit game. That's different.

1058
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: Okay, let's stay with the small venues. It's in the

1059
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: smaller venues that the ticket fee looks outrageous. If there's

1060
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: a twenty five dollar fee on one hundred dollars ticket,

1061
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: you don't like it. If there's a twenty or twenty

1062
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: five dollars fee on a twenty five dollars ticket, everybody's unhappy.

1063
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: So talk about that.

1064
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and something that we've been talking about lot.

1065
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 2: The reality is, you know, from our perspective, fees have

1066
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 2: gotten out of hand. It used to be there was

1067
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 2: a fee, a handling fee, right, There was a ticket

1068
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 2: fee because they had to print it out and you know,

1069
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: sit mail it to you or whatever. So there was

1070
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: a handling fee, there was a printing charge and whatever,

1071
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 2: and then the fee became you know whatever, it was

1072
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 2: a dollar. I think it's actually going back. There was

1073
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 2: there was no fees to the to the fan. The

1074
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: fees in the old days, the fees were charged to

1075
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: the show. You paid. I don't remember the number of

1076
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 2: fans ten cents whatever. It was a ticket and it

1077
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 2: was charged to the show as a show cost. Okay,

1078
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:36,479
Speaker 2: and then Fred Rosen came along. You know the story.

1079
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: I don't even have to tell you, but I'll tell

1080
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 2: it on the podcast. Fred Rosen came along, and I'll

1081
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 2: and I'll I won't say I made it happen, but

1082
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 2: I will take some of the hit for this. He

1083
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: called me on a particular tour of one of my clients. Actually,

1084
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: somebody had him call me the client that I had.

1085
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: We were we were going on tour and ticket Tron

1086
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: was doing it. Remember ticket Tron of course, so ticket

1087
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: ticket Tron was doing the you know the ticketing back then,

1088
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 2: the computerized if you want to call it that whatever,

1089
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: you know, mechanical ticket issuing or whatever. If you didn't

1090
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: go to like your local record shop or you didn't

1091
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: go to the box office or whatever. They were handling

1092
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 2: it a lot of them. And somebody called me and said, hey,

1093
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 2: you got to talk to this new company. It's called Ticketmaster.

1094
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 2: They can do it better, they can do it faster,

1095
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. I said, okay, right, so I

1096
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 2: talked to I talked to uh Fred. I quote Fred

1097
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: up when we had a conversation and he said, you know,

1098
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: I want to do I want to handle I'd like

1099
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: to do all the tickets for the whole tour. And

1100
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 2: I said okay, but I said, I don't want to

1101
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 2: have to pay a fee. I don't want to tour

1102
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 2: to pay a fee for it. He said, okay, don't

1103
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 2: worry about I'll take care of it. I said, how

1104
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: are you going to take care of it? He says,

1105
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 2: I'll charge the buyer. I said, oh, that's a good concept.

1106
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 2: I never heard of that concept. He goes, yeah, charge

1107
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's twenty five cents or something or

1108
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 2: ten cents or something. I said, okay, that sounds great.

1109
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 2: And so that happened there. So you know, the next

1110
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: time I had a actually I had a conversation with

1111
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 2: him a bunch of time. But the next time I

1112
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 2: got on the phone to talk about ticketing, I was

1113
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: trying to get him to reduce his fee that he

1114
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 2: was charging for the buyers. And this was probably two

1115
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 2: or three years later, and he hung up on me

1116
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 2: basically because he was like, screw you, find somebody else

1117
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: to do your tickets. And I went, wow, that was

1118
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 2: a quick turnaround for it. But that was just you know,

1119
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 2: then it just went from there, right, it escalated. So

1120
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 2: in today's world, what does it cost to actually issu

1121
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 2: your ticket? Eighty five cents? Maybe? Okay, so when you're

1122
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 2: charging fifteen dollars at thirty five or a hunt or

1123
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 2: probably doesn't go higher than that. But fifty yeah, okay

1124
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 2: if it's on a really huge ticket, I guess, I

1125
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: mean it doesn't matter. But the conversations we've been having

1126
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 2: with with you know, with promoters and buyer and venue buyers,

1127
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: is why don't we just why are we doing this?

1128
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: If it's twenty five bucks for the ticket and thirteen

1129
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: for the fees you know, ticketing fees, venue fees, whatever,

1130
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 2: so it's thirty eight dollars, why don't we just put

1131
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 2: thirty eight dollars down to figure out how to split

1132
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: it up? I want to do fifty to fifty, I mean,

1133
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: like what makes sense. Like let's at least engage the conversation.

1134
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: Because back in the day before it was all the

1135
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 2: expenses and ticketing fees and all the rest of it,

1136
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: you know, it was the deals were simple. It was

1137
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 2: X amount of dollars guaranteed versus fifty percent, and it

1138
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: went to sixty at a point and maybe seventy at

1139
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: a point. And that was like later on when everybody

1140
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 2: figured out there might be more money to be made.

1141
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: And it was simple. There was no you didn't have

1142
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 2: to have accountants on a road, you didn't have to

1143
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 2: do any of it. It's like, okay, this is what

1144
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 2: we're going to do. So you know, and I know

1145
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: for the larger tours, just still otive accounts. But I'm

1146
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: talking about for the workingman's band if you want to

1147
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 2: call it that, or a workingman's group. So that's some

1148
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 2: of the conversations we've had. We've been having because you know,

1149
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: it is kind of out of hand. It's it's really

1150
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 2: like I have this over here, and then you can

1151
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 2: split this and so then what then we as agents

1152
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: or managers have to go back and go, okay, then

1153
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 2: we'll do this, but we're going to keep this over here.

1154
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 2: You know. It's like, let's just put it all here

1155
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 2: and figure out what it is. You have the venue,

1156
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 2: we have the act. If the act didn't come into

1157
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: the venue, there'd be nobody there, very few people. Okay,

1158
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 2: not every venue, but some or most they're not coming

1159
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: down to hang out at an empty venue and drink

1160
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 2: beer or drink drinks at the bar if nothing's happening.

1161
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: Unless it's a bar, you know that they have talent

1162
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: in but it's also a hangout bar. But if it's

1163
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: a place that's actually a showcase for talent, they're not.

1164
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 2: Nobody's coming down to hang out without talent. So there's

1165
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 2: a reason people are in there. So why can't we

1166
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: take it from that position? You know, you've got the bar,

1167
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: you got you know this, you just just make it easier,

1168
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 2: make it simpler. It's it's kind of I was sitting

1169
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 2: at the meeting we were having conversations about at Milwaukee,

1170
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: and I was sitting there thinking, this is like two

1171
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: countries with you know, uh military, you know weapons, right,

1172
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: you're going to have you know, dis missile. Then I'm

1173
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 2: going to make this bomb. You're going to do this.

1174
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: I'm going to do this. It's just like, can we

1175
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: just cut it all out and just have nothing? We

1176
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 2: won't attack you, you don't attack us. How about that? I mean,

1177
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 2: I know that's unrealistic, but uh that's the way I

1178
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: feel something.

1179
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: Okay, ticket Master, when we're talking about Areena's large values

1180
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: that are they pay these advances. They rationalize the fees.

1181
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: Let's just talk about that conceptually. We'll get into details. Leader.

1182
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: When you have an independent club, how they rationalizing these

1183
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: large fees.

1184
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: Cost of operation is one. They need this guarantee to

1185
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: their bottom line, you know what I mean. So it's

1186
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 2: again it's like, okay, this parts are so we know

1187
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: we have that we're gonna sell x amount of tickets

1188
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: all year or you know, average right on a year,

1189
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: so we know we have this much coming in. So

1190
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 2: that's one reason. And some of them, honestly, I don't

1191
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 2: know for sure, but maybe some of them get advances

1192
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 2: from the ticketing companies. I'm sure they do. It's probably

1193
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: the same thing, just in a smaller, smaller way, right,

1194
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 2: because they're not all ticketmaster venus. I mean, there are

1195
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 2: a lot of independent, you know, small ticketing companies, although

1196
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 2: a lot of those are being bought up, so you know,

1197
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 2: and I'm sure they go, if they're smart enough, they

1198
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 2: go and get advances on their ticket money to operate.

1199
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: And so they're doing the same thing that the larger

1200
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 2: places are doing. They you know, it's already in there.

1201
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: So they're charging the fee because they've you know, they've

1202
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 2: taken this money. They're charging the fee. They're legitimizing it

1203
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: because they've got to repay the ticketing company and they

1204
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: also want to make a profit. So the fee. I'm

1205
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 2: not saying it's all going to Ticke company, but part

1206
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:28,919
Speaker 2: of it probably is, and then some of it's coming

1207
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 2: to them, and some of it maybe's going to promoter.

1208
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what their venue deal is,

1209
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: you know, for every date, every show, but they may

1210
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 2: they may have a deal like that. You know, you

1211
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 2: come in, your partner with us, will give you a

1212
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 2: piece of the ticketing.

1213
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: Okay, let's flip the script a little bit. Let's talk

1214
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: about Titesky Trucks. You're the agent. They're playing bigger venues

1215
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: now at this point in time. You know, we'll go

1216
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 1: back in time. But they have an overall deal with Live.

1217
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: Nation right now.

1218
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: They do, yes, Okay, So what are your feelings about

1219
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: overall deals, touring deals?

1220
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 2: You know, it really depends on the situation, and it

1221
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 2: depends on the you know, who's doing it and what

1222
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: they're capable of doing. There's other than Ticketmaster sorry, Live Nation.

1223
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: There are other people out there trying to do these

1224
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 2: kinds of deals, right. I mean, Age obviously has been

1225
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 2: doing it for a while. We'll take Louisina out of

1226
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 2: it for a second, because that's kind of a different scenario.

1227
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: But you know there's other people doing it. There's you know,

1228
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 2: a venom now in America is trying to do the

1229
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: same thing, right, the ticketing company from Germany. There's been

1230
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 2: promoters that, you know, independent promoters that have tried to

1231
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 2: do a similar thing. Some of them now are backed,

1232
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, by bigger money to do a similar thing.

1233
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 2: So my question always is as an agent is excuse me,

1234
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: can they can they take the place of the local person,

1235
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 2: you know, the local promoter or and or you know,

1236
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 2: the local marketing piece people like if they're living in

1237
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, a city to Buke, Iowa. Let's say

1238
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 2: the promoter's living which probably isn't the case, but let's

1239
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 2: say they are. Are they going to know what's happening

1240
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 2: in Newark, New Jersey? Probably not. You can in today's world,

1241
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 2: you can do marketing the social media obviously, if you

1242
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 2: can do it anywhere in the world, right, that's not

1243
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 2: a surprise. I mean, you could even buy time on

1244
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 2: radio from anywhere. Really, if you want, although there's little

1245
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,479
Speaker 2: of that being done. There's not so much print being done,

1246
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: so it's not a matter of doing that. But when

1247
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 2: and where? When when that was still happening and there

1248
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 2: was these kind of national things going on, I always

1249
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 2: question are they getting the right deal? You know, do

1250
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 2: they have a deal where the local guy might do

1251
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 2: they know all the ins and outs locally? Do they

1252
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 2: have do they know the jocks at the station, or

1253
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 2: are they're just calling up sales and you know, ordering spots.

1254
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 2: So to me, there's something about having the person in

1255
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 2: the market, especially when you're developing an act. So maybe

1256
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: when an act gets to a certain level, it's just

1257
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 2: all right, we're putting the show on. Okay, there's still

1258
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 2: things that happen to be done, and there's still probably

1259
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 2: marketing it needs to be done as well to make

1260
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: sure that you're doing the business or increase the business.

1261
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: But you know, as you're coming up, are they going

1262
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 2: to have the same wherewithal Now from a live nation perspective,

1263
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 2: they do have offices in virtually older major cities, so

1264
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 2: you can say that they have their localized people right,

1265
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 2: So maybe that makes you know, that makes more sense

1266
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 2: than somebody that's doing it, that just says, oh, yeah,

1267
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 2: I'm going to call you know, I'm gonna call the Beacon,

1268
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 2: or I'm gonna call Madison Square Garden and book the

1269
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 2: Beacon and I'm going to do a show there. But

1270
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: I live in Minnesota and there's people doing it all

1271
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 2: the time because it's easy enough to do these days.

1272
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like it was in the old days, right,

1273
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 2: And you know, they'll fly in if they have to,

1274
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: or they'll hire somebody to go cover the date. It's

1275
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys that are people around there

1276
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 2: that are doing and there's not lots and lots of them,

1277
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: but there's quite a few now that are doing like

1278
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: these tour deals or whatever. You know, they're hiring somebody

1279
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 2: to be like the tour manager. So and they're on

1280
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 2: the road, you know, covering the shows because they you know,

1281
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 2: the promoter's doing other stuff too, so he's not going

1282
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 2: to be able to cover all the shows. I mean,

1283
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 2: back in the day, you know, there was Larry Magott

1284
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: and Philly. There was Don Law in Boston. There was

1285
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 2: Ron dels Are in New York. Right, your guy had

1286
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: the city wired, he had all the stuff locally wored

1287
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 2: and maybe that's part of why the developmental thing isn't

1288
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: as strong as it was. Maybe that's a little bit

1289
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 2: part of it. I mean, there's other reasons obviously the

1290
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 2: radio stations, record companies, et cetera. But maybe it's because

1291
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: it's gotten so nationalized. We're losing out on that, you know,

1292
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 2: we're losing out on the guy or person that's developing

1293
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 2: that act, you know, for that region like you know,

1294
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 2: Philly around the Philly area or Pennsylvania or whatever, you know,

1295
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, the metro New York

1296
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 2: City area or you know Syracuse and Rochester, New York,

1297
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 2: where before you had somebody working on because they wanted

1298
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 2: to develop business. So the independent you know venues now

1299
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 2: have kind of taken over that role, only they don't

1300
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: all have that wherewithal you know, financially as well, some

1301
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: of them, but not all of them. And they also

1302
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 2: if they're running five six nights a week or more,

1303
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 2: some of them run seven. If you're running five or

1304
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 2: six nights a week, that's that's really difficult to do.

1305
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 2: You know. Back again, back in the day, they were

1306
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 2: doing maybe a show a week, maybe a couple of month,

1307
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 2: you know, and then eventually they had multiples and they

1308
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 2: had to hire other people. But still they weren't doing

1309
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 2: you know, they weren't doing three hundred and sixty five

1310
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 2: shows a lot of them. Right these venues now are

1311
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 2: you know they're running They're doing two hundred and eighty

1312
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 2: or whatever. You know, I mean, I know one venue

1313
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 2: close to where I live that there's one hundred and

1314
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 2: thirty seven okay, small theater, right, so that's a lot

1315
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:41,919
Speaker 2: of shows. If they were trying to do the rest

1316
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: of the country, how would they you know what I mean,

1317
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 2: how would they concentrate on what they're doing locally? So

1318
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 2: that's that's my general feeling on that. Okay.

1319
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: The old logic was if I go independently, the promoter

1320
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 1: has a relationship. If I have I'm a good draw,

1321
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: I can make more money. But I could have a

1322
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: bad date for whatever reason, turns out I'm soft in

1323
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: the market, it's weather whatever, blah blah blah. Whereas I

1324
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: made an overall deal, my money was guaranteed. Then you

1325
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: have the Michael Cole paradigm. What he started was I'll

1326
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 1: pay you the money, don't ask me how I make

1327
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: my money. Okay, And so if there's an overall tour

1328
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 1: deal today. I mean Arthur Fowell works there at Live Nation.

1329
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: Michael Cole is not a part of that. To what

1330
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 1: de do you just say, Okay, I negotiate the biggest

1331
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: number I can and I just leave the rest of

1332
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 1: the air. And to what degree can you control them?

1333
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 2: Well? Okay, so again a lot to unback. I guess

1334
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 2: when you get to a certain level, it's like, okay,

1335
01:07:55,200 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 2: I'll just I'll give you a a an example, but

1336
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 2: not in the business, not necessarily for that. And then

1337
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 2: I'll answer the question. If you have a business, you

1338
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 2: build it up. You're an independent and you know you're

1339
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 2: a businessman. Rather you start your own business or an entrepreneur.

1340
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 2: You build your business up and you get along, you know,

1341
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 2: later in life, and you decide, you know what I

1342
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: need to I'm working like crazy. I'm banging my head

1343
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 2: against the wall making sure everything happens properly. Somebody comes

1344
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 2: along and goes, hey, you know what, I like your business.

1345
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you, you know, ten million dollars

1346
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: for it. You think, yeah, but this is like my family,

1347
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Then you think, okay, how long do

1348
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 2: I have left Okay, I'll take the money, and then

1349
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, you've got to be on for whatever it is,

1350
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 2: three to five years, and then you can do whatever

1351
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,600
Speaker 2: you want. Maybe you stay, maybe you don't. So I

1352
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 2: think with with not everybody, with certain situations in this

1353
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 2: business as well, you know, you get to a point

1354
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 2: where it's something that I was mentioning before. So I

1355
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 2: had a client, as I said that, you know overseas,

1356
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 2: was concerned that, you know, during COVID, that they'd be

1357
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 2: over there, COVID would come, everything would shut down and

1358
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 2: he'd be stuck on an island and have to pay

1359
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: everybody and pay to get everything back and whatever, and

1360
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 2: basically lose his ass right because there would be no shows.

1361
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 2: He was concerned with that. So when you're operating that

1362
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 2: way with some of these acts, and a lot of

1363
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 2: them do, even if they're larger, and you and you

1364
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 2: can realize that, or you realize that if I make

1365
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 2: this deal, I could just take care of I don't

1366
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 2: have to worry about that. I'll take the money, and

1367
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 2: you know, I don't have to worry about anything else.

1368
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: I don't have to deal with anything. It sounds easy, right,

1369
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 2: but sometimes it's not that easy. It's not always that easy,

1370
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: but it seems that easy. But for them, maybe it

1371
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 2: makes sense. You know, let me take the check and

1372
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 2: you worry about it. They still have to do their

1373
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 2: show and do all the rest of that stuff. But

1374
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 2: maybe they're thinking, I don't have to worry about anything

1375
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 2: else now they deal with it. But as you alluded to,

1376
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 2: most of those deals are yep, don't ask me what

1377
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 2: I'm doing, because I'm gonna do whatever I have to

1378
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 2: do to make it up. I mean, that's the reality.

1379
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 2: I do the same thing. I just gave you ten million.

1380
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 2: Don't ask me how I'm gonna get it back. I'm

1381
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 2: gonna do whatever I have to do to get it back. Now,

1382
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 2: different for me than some is I just don't have

1383
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: it in me to do whatever it takes to get

1384
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 2: it back. I'm going to try to do it. You know,

1385
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 2: the way I feel is right, But that's just because

1386
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 2: of who I am. But it's still leaving it out

1387
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 2: there because you even if you think you have controlled,

1388
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 2: you don't have one hundred percent of control. You know,

1389
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 2: you have to give something up. It's why I gave

1390
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 2: you that example of the business, because even though you

1391
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 2: see I'm taking a Timley, and they say to you,

1392
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 2: you can run it the way you want. You can

1393
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 2: do whatever you want. Don't worry about it ain't gonna happen.

1394
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 2: You think it is not going to happen. I just

1395
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 2: told some friends of mine a couple of years ago

1396
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 2: who were out looking for money to you know, invest

1397
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 2: in their business, and they go, we're gonna get this,

1398
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 2: We're gonna get that. And I said, let me let

1399
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 2: me say something to you. You think that that's going

1400
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 2: to answer all your problems and answer every you know,

1401
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 2: the questions for you, and you think you're going to

1402
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,439
Speaker 2: have control. But if somebody gives you ten million dollars

1403
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 2: or twenty million dollars, they are going to want control.

1404
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 2: They are not giving up control. I'll give it. I

1405
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:14,639
Speaker 2: don't care what they say. I don't care what when

1406
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,520
Speaker 2: they put that agreement together, you better read it really carefully.

1407
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 2: Now I speak from experience because my business prior to

1408
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 2: this was a partnership with you know, with an agent

1409
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 2: that we you know, started the business together very much

1410
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 2: the same as I did this one, very small, built

1411
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 2: it up. It was very successful. We made a joint

1412
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 2: venture and it was great, and we expanded and we

1413
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 2: did a lot of great things and whatever, and for

1414
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 2: the most part, we were we did what we wanted

1415
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 2: to do. We still had to ask because it was

1416
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 2: a fifty to fifty joint venture, but they agreed until

1417
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 2: the administration changed and then it was like, what are

1418
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 2: you guys doing? We don't understand. Why are you doing this? Why?

1419
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 2: And then it was like, okay, we have to do

1420
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 2: this over here to expand, and we're going to need

1421
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 2: this much money. Well, I don't know if we want

1422
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 2: to give you that money to do that, you know.

1423
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 2: And then things changed overnight and I was sitting thinking, Okay, now,

1424
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 2: what how do I get myself into this? So it

1425
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 2: sounds good from the outset, but if you take the check,

1426
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 2: you're giving up control.

1427
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go. When a step before, before there was

1428
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: an overall deal for Tedesky trucks, what would be the

1429
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 1: negotiations and what were those tours like?

1430
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 2: Well, see, so the Tedesky trucks are or however, you

1431
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,320
Speaker 2: know whatever, It doesn't matter who the act is. But

1432
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 2: in my you know, theory, not just my personal theory,

1433
01:12:54,080 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 2: you can you can probably do the same either way,

1434
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, You can do the same

1435
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 2: sort of things and probably have basically the same business

1436
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 2: either way. But as I said it, maybe it may

1437
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 2: look easier to do this right because you either have

1438
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 2: to do less work, you have less risk, and that's

1439
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 2: a lot of it is the risk. So you do

1440
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 2: this and there's less risk, and maybe you just end

1441
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 2: up at the same place at the end, you know,

1442
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 2: or close, or maybe you're a little bit ahead. So

1443
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 2: that's good, you know, Is it twice as far ahead?

1444
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, it's still to be seen.

1445
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 2: I think a lot of those big tours and I'm

1446
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,640
Speaker 2: not avoiding the answer the question. Rather, I'm trying to

1447
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 2: I'm trying to give you more of a full answer.

1448
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 2: Like a lot of those tours that are you know,

1449
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 2: the what do you call it, you know, the tour deals, right,

1450
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 2: the big packages. We're done for a lot of different reasons.

1451
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 2: One of them, you know, one of them maybe was

1452
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 2: on creativity, you know, based on creativity, because they felt

1453
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 2: like if they made this deal and somebody was producing

1454
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 2: the whole tour, they had more control on the creative

1455
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 2: side because then they could roll in with whatever they

1456
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 2: wanted and basically just do what they want. Well, it

1457
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 2: doesn't not necessarily, but maybe closer, you know, and maybe yes,

1458
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 2: maybe at the end of the day you'll get almost

1459
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:13,440
Speaker 2: as much, sorry, almost one hundred percent of whatever you want.

1460
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: And then another reason again was risk. You know, you

1461
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 2: want to somebody wants to take on a situation and

1462
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: they want to have, you know, put out a bigger show.

1463
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 2: There's a huge risk in that, you know, a risk

1464
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 2: getting into it, and then you probably come out okay,

1465
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 2: but you're still risking coming in because you've got to

1466
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 2: you got to finance it. So maybe that's the other

1467
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: reason is the risk, as I said earlier, so risk

1468
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 2: is a big thing as well. Now, so the question was,

1469
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 2: you know, how of the negotiations go. Well, when when

1470
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 2: you're dealing on forty or fifty shows independently, you're dealing

1471
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: with you know, each promoter office, it's a little different

1472
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 2: than you know, having a tour deal, so some of

1473
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 2: them may be the same places that you're playing, but

1474
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 2: it's coming in as you know, an overall tour deal,

1475
01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 2: so you're not necessarily negotiating each of the to the

1476
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 2: dates individually. At the end of the day, the shows

1477
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 2: will be the same, you know, the earnings may be

1478
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 2: higher maybe or may be the same, but again the

1479
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 2: risk is out the ability to coordinate things from one

1480
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 2: place who is attractive to some people. The show is

1481
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 2: still being done virtually the same way. I mean, it

1482
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,600
Speaker 2: may change in certain people's cases. As I said, you know,

1483
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 2: it may be that they're out on the road and

1484
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 2: they want it. You know, Like I had a client

1485
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 2: the other day that said, oh, if I only had

1486
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,520
Speaker 2: somebody that would finance the whole tour, I bring screens

1487
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 2: and I'd do this, and I do that. So there's

1488
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 2: a reason why they would do it because they want

1489
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 2: to put on a bigger show. You know. I don't

1490
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 2: even know if they're thinking about at the end of

1491
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,760
Speaker 2: they making more money. They might be, but I think

1492
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 2: they're thinking about presenting a bigger show and the investment

1493
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 2: it takes to do that, you know, up front. So

1494
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 2: I think that may be a lot of the reasons.

1495
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: Well, let me let me be clearer. Okay, Yeah, prior

1496
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: to making a little we're all deal with Live Nation

1497
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 1: with Tedesky Trucks. Let's take that off the table. If

1498
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:09,639
Speaker 1: there were fifty dates, did you work with fifty different

1499
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: promoters and have to negotiate fifty different deals? Yes, Now,

1500
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: when you're making a deal. I have literally sat with

1501
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: the promoter where they have the computer, and they show

1502
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: me the two sets of books. There's the one they

1503
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 1: send to the act and the one for them. So

1504
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 1: the one that goes to the acts as they're in

1505
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,080
Speaker 1: the red, the one that's in the black, theirs, which

1506
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: they don't show the actions that they made money. So

1507
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: from beginning to end, how do you get I mean,

1508
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:45,680
Speaker 1: it's constant war between agents and promoters. How do you

1509
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: make sure you get the most money and don't get screwed?

1510
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:59,520
Speaker 2: How do you make some Well, if I'm gonna just trust,

1511
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 2: there's no way to make sure. Bob, how do you

1512
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 2: know your bank's not stealing from you right now? You

1513
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 2: have no idea?

1514
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 1: Well, you know, as you talk about changes in the business,

1515
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: they sent out these two accountants whatever who were more

1516
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 1: line by line, and we're arguing it more as opposed

1517
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,600
Speaker 1: to trust. Now you have to pay that person and

1518
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 1: sometimes there's not enough money or else the advance is

1519
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: so big, you know they have to steal from you

1520
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: in order to make it work.

1521
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 2: But even if you're going line by line, okay, okay,

1522
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 2: if you're if you're in a settlement, and you're going

1523
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 2: line by line, they go, the advertising costs this much,

1524
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 2: and then they go, here are the receipts. Well, how

1525
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 2: do you know you're going to call every radio station,

1526
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 2: you're going to call every newspaper. Well, first of all,

1527
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,800
Speaker 2: this is going back pre today. Let's say, you know,

1528
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 2: going back ten years, fifteen years, whatever. The local guy

1529
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 2: has a deal with all those people. Why because he's

1530
01:17:55,200 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 2: doing volume right today. It's in the agreements, right, it

1531
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 2: says any disc count afforded to us does not go

1532
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 2: in the deal. It's right there in black and white.

1533
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 2: So that immediately admits that there has always been discounts,

1534
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:12,640
Speaker 2: but we suspected that anyway. Of course there's discounts. And

1535
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 2: those re seats like are they real or did they

1536
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 2: get are they computer generated? Or? I mean today we

1537
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:19,679
Speaker 2: can make anything on a computer.

1538
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: Right.

1539
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:22,760
Speaker 2: So that's why I say this trust involved. Because you

1540
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 2: look at it and you could go line by line

1541
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 2: by line, that doesn't mean the reality. I remember back

1542
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 2: when the tour account started going out, they were counting

1543
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 2: seats and venues, right Literally, it'd go around counting the

1544
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 2: seats to make sure you know, blah blah blah blah

1545
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 2: blah to make sure the seats were there, and then

1546
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 2: they'd say, oh, there's five more seats. Well, okay, so

1547
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 2: you caught them for five seats, but what else is

1548
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 2: going on? Like, you can't, you can't, you're not in

1549
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 2: the box office. You don't know what's really going on.

1550
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 2: It looks good, and yes, you know at a certain

1551
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 2: level you do need somebody out there doing that. You

1552
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 2: don't want to just blindly go through it. But there

1553
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 2: is a large amount of trust involved in the meantime.

1554
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 2: What you're saying about the double books is funny because

1555
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 2: I brought that up in one of the meetings I

1556
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 2: was having this past week, and it was like, and

1557
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 2: they were shocked, what do you mean?

1558
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:06,680
Speaker 1: You know?

1559
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 2: You know it happens. I know it happens. But also

1560
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 2: if you own it, see so part of the differences

1561
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 2: I think, I think, but I didn't see the books.

1562
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,639
Speaker 2: You saw. You know what you saw. If you own

1563
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 2: a venue, right, or you control a venue, you can

1564
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:28,719
Speaker 2: show the actual show, maybe losing money, right, the selling

1565
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 2: the tickets, people coming in and sitting okay, But then

1566
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 2: the question becomes, all right, but what else is there?

1567
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 2: So that's in the red and that's what normally we

1568
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 2: see but what about you know, again, depending on the venue,

1569
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 2: it's like the sports venues or you know, the arenas today,

1570
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 2: you go in there and none none of the boxes

1571
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 2: are in the manifest, right, none of the special you know,

1572
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 2: annual deals they do are in the manifest. You know,

1573
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 2: there's all of that. So so that could be part

1574
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,160
Speaker 2: of it. Right, They go, Okay, we're making money because

1575
01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 2: we've got you know, parking, and we've got the bar,

1576
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: and we've got this, and we've got the ticketing feed,

1577
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,640
Speaker 2: and we've got the venue fee, and we've got you know,

1578
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 2: our club seats, and we've got our members and all

1579
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: the rest of it. So you know, they look at

1580
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 2: that and they go, okay, we made money, but we

1581
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 2: lost money here. But you know, that's but that's part

1582
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 2: of that model, and it's been developed, and that's why

1583
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 2: you know, there's certain entities that you know that are

1584
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 2: out you know, building venues and making venues and and

1585
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 2: you know, some of these club the larger club guys

1586
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 2: control multiple rooms. What we see as a settlement on

1587
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 2: the show, we don't see the settlement on the business, Like,

1588
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:34,679
Speaker 2: what's the real settlement on the business. We never see

1589
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 2: that really you know Jake Gold of course, right, So

1590
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 2: Jake told me a story and I know you love

1591
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 2: this because you love Jake as I do so Jay.

1592
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: When I was representing the Tragically Hippy years ago and

1593
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 2: I started to represent them in Canada, Jake used to

1594
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 2: tell me stories about when they went out on the

1595
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 2: road and sometimes and I told this story actually to

1596
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 2: somebody this weekend at the not this this week because

1597
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 2: it was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday at the conference, because they

1598
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 2: were talking about the bar and the tickets and whatever.

1599
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 2: So Jake used to say to me, you know, if

1600
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 2: a club owner doesn't want didn't want the act in

1601
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 2: the early days, I'd tell them, you can have the

1602
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:13,679
Speaker 2: act for free, give me the bar, because I knew

1603
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 2: people were going to drink. And I'd say yeah, and

1604
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:19,000
Speaker 2: then you know, I remember going to the shows and

1605
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Jesus Christ, they do drink, you know. And

1606
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 2: so he was willing to trade the door for the

1607
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 2: bar because he knew that they were making more money

1608
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 2: in the bar than he was making at the door.

1609
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 2: So you know that's my point, like, well, he knew

1610
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 2: because you know, Jake is Jake, and he probably you know,

1611
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 2: went in there and you know figured it out. He

1612
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:37,639
Speaker 2: probably counted the people and how many drinks they had.

1613
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 2: But you know, we don't know what the business is doing.

1614
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 2: We just know what we're seeing, you know, we're seeing

1615
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 2: It's like the airlines. You know, they go, well, we're

1616
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 2: losing not anymore today because they weren't making money, but

1617
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 2: we're losing money. Well, why you lose money? Well, fuels, this,

1618
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 2: this is this, this is the so now they're charging,

1619
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 2: you know, for baggage. You want to sit over here,

1620
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 2: you got to pay this. You want an upgrade, you

1621
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: want to pay this. You want to get on early,

1622
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 2: you pay this. They figured out it's the same sort

1623
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 2: of model. It's the same model. Hey for extras, let's

1624
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 2: do upgrades. Let's do all of this, right, you got

1625
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 2: your normal guy. How many people want to sit in

1626
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 2: the very back and be the basic economy? Not many,

1627
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 2: So they say, here's basic economy. It's not bad. You

1628
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 2: can fly to Chicago for three hundred bucks, but bags

1629
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,639
Speaker 2: fifty dollars early. You know, on the plane twenty five bucks.

1630
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 2: Sit in a seat where you can actually put your

1631
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 2: legs out right, that's another fifty bucks. And just keep

1632
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 2: doing that. It's all add ons.

1633
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 1: Okay, in these larger venues, you know there's a law

1634
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 1: now you have to show the overall price. But as

1635
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:42,479
Speaker 1: an agent, what about negotiating in terms of the ticket

1636
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 1: prices and the add ons on these bigger buildings.

1637
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 2: Ah, that's ticketing things. You know, there's a never ending

1638
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 2: conversation or battle. Honestly. First of first of all, the

1639
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 2: the all end price was a good concept and principle,

1640
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 2: but I don't think it is in the actual everyday usage.

1641
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 2: I had a manager that called me the other day

1642
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 2: and when it took effect in New York, and he

1643
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 2: said he got a something from a fan that they

1644
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 2: were playing somewhere. It was like the ticket was fifty bucks.

1645
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 2: I think it was fifty five something like that, and

1646
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 2: they flipped it to all in pricing. So the fifty

1647
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 2: five dollars ticket became sixty eight. So the fan was

1648
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 2: emailing saying, I was going to buy a ticket, but

1649
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 2: you increased the price to sixty eight. Well, the artist

1650
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 2: didn't increase the price. Price is the same. The fees

1651
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:41,799
Speaker 2: increased the price and it went to all in ticketing.

1652
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,800
Speaker 2: And depending on what platform you're on. And he was

1653
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:46,760
Speaker 2: explaining to me on the particular platform he was on.

1654
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:48,680
Speaker 2: It doesn't show you that until you check out. It

1655
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 2: does give you all the fees when you check out,

1656
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 2: but not until you check out. There is I understand.

1657
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 2: I haven't been on all the platforms, and this was

1658
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 2: a big conversation in Milwaukee, and on one of the

1659
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 2: platforms it shows you upfront what the fees are. I

1660
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:07,120
Speaker 2: still don't think that the public really understands that, nor

1661
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 2: do I think we could really make them understand it

1662
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 2: or get them to understand what it is, because they

1663
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:15,600
Speaker 2: think it's the artist, and the artists in the you know,

1664
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 2: in the larger scenarios maybe be maybe controlling the overall. Right,

1665
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 2: they may be able to say, and I'm talking about

1666
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 2: the big one percent or top ten, whatever you want

1667
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 2: to call it. They may be able to say, here's

1668
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 2: what I want the ticket to be, and the fee

1669
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:31,120
Speaker 2: has to be no more than this and this and this.

1670
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 2: They can control that because honestly, you want that tour,

1671
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 2: that's what you do, or you don't get it. So

1672
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 2: they probably do control that. But for the you know,

1673
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,520
Speaker 2: working man's act or the working act, as I say,

1674
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 2: then they can't control that. So you know, they decide

1675
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 2: they want a twenty five dollars the ticket it ends

1676
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 2: up being thirty five. You know, it's probably more than

1677
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 2: they should charge for that particular act. And there's no

1678
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 2: real way to control it because you got the you know,

1679
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 2: you got the fees for the building, get the fees

1680
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 2: for the ticketing company. And we just went through why.

1681
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 2: You know, it's advances, it's splitting it with somebody, it's

1682
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,600
Speaker 2: whatever it is. It doesn't even matter anymore. It's the

1683
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 2: fact that they're there. So all In was supposed to

1684
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 2: quote unquote solve it. All it does is just lump

1685
01:25:10,120 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 2: in one lump sum. And so the good part about

1686
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 2: it is you can see what the price is and

1687
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 2: you go, you know what, that's too high. I'm not

1688
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 2: buying it. Whereas before maybe if it stated, you know, whatever,

1689
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 2: it was fifty five dollars or if it was a

1690
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,760
Speaker 2: seventy five or whatever it was, and not like ninety eight,

1691
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 2: you look at it and go, okay, I'll buy that.

1692
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 2: Oh there's these fees and that's like tax. It's like,

1693
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,720
Speaker 2: oh shit, okay, you know, okay, I'll have to pay

1694
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 2: that at the end. But you see them. The argument was,

1695
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 2: or at least from our standpoint, is a talent representative.

1696
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,639
Speaker 2: We wanted everybody to see the price, to be aware

1697
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 2: what you're paying and what the fees are for. We

1698
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 2: wanted them to know the artist is charging this and

1699
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 2: these are the fees, so you're paying that because of that.

1700
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 1: Okay, what's your view on authorized resale? Ticket Master says

1701
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 1: the ACT has the right to turn that off R on.

1702
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 1: I've heard, you know, not my personal experience. I've heard

1703
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 1: from some agents that ticket Master turned it on. They

1704
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 1: weren't aware of it. They had to call them to

1705
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 1: them to turn it off. What's your philosophy and what's

1706
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:10,800
Speaker 1: your experience?

1707
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 2: Experience is very similar to what you say. I've had it,

1708
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 2: you know, turned on without without knowing, and then you

1709
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 2: call it turn it off, and I haven't. It hasn't

1710
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 2: happened recently. But when it started to have out, they

1711
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,760
Speaker 2: turned it off initially and then later said no, we're

1712
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:29,720
Speaker 2: not going to turn it off, and they they reverted

1713
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 2: to we'll keep it off until it gets to ninety

1714
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 2: eight percent, then we're turning it on or some percentage

1715
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 2: I don't remember off the top of my head, and

1716
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 2: then we're turning it on automatically. The thing is that

1717
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 2: Once you get to that percentage and it turns on,

1718
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 2: that just opens up the floodgate because then everybody has

1719
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 2: tickets can put them up on resale, and if the

1720
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 2: bots have them, and if whoever has them, all of

1721
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 2: a sudden boom, there they go. So my philosophy on

1722
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 2: resale is I okay, my personal philosophy. My personal philosophy

1723
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 2: is resale is fine. It should be at face value

1724
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 2: with a minimal up charge whatever whatever you want to

1725
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 2: call it. You got a ticket for one hundred bucks

1726
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 2: or let's say one hundred bucks, two tickets to go

1727
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:08,240
Speaker 2: somewhere your friend can't go, you're going on your own.

1728
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 2: You want to resell it, resell it for one hundred,

1729
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,759
Speaker 2: maybe you get one hundred and ten or whatever. Okay,

1730
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 2: to me, that's fair. But when you have it and

1731
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:19,360
Speaker 2: you're reselling it, you're getting two fifty for it, that's

1732
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 2: not fair. But the other side of the argument is

1733
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 2: the act should to charge two fifty to begin with. Well, okay,

1734
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 2: there's always two sides to an argument, and yes, some

1735
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 2: of the acts are charging more for tickets. But again

1736
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 2: I get back to the my statement about you know

1737
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 2: it feels like you know two countries with war weapons. Right, Okay,

1738
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 2: now we're going to charge two fifty for the ticket,

1739
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:44,839
Speaker 2: and now it's three seventy five on the resale market

1740
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:47,639
Speaker 2: because it just goes up again. Right, it doesn't stop

1741
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:48,400
Speaker 2: if we change.

1742
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 1: We've experienced with Beyonce and a couple of other acts

1743
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 1: now where the reseller's secondary market got killed.

1744
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:59,400
Speaker 2: Well, they did because they overbought, right, overbought.

1745
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 1: So there is a price like the Stones. The Stones

1746
01:28:03,160 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 1: go out, they charge the most. There's really no secondary market, Okay,

1747
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: because the tickets are so expensive, they flex price them, etc.

1748
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:19,080
Speaker 1: The viewpoint from the artist has historically been that it

1749
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:23,760
Speaker 1: is bad for us if the ticket is expensive. As

1750
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: you say, there's two sides the argument. Yeah, you say

1751
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 1: that tickets under price, secondary market gets the uplift. Do

1752
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: you think at this late date, where as they say,

1753
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,960
Speaker 1: the level of sophistication is complicated, the public will never

1754
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 1: understand the fees, but the public understands what the value

1755
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 1: of the ticket is. There's always somebody who says, I've

1756
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,679
Speaker 1: been listening to this band for twenty years, I should

1757
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:53,719
Speaker 1: be able to sit in the front row for fifty bucks,

1758
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 1: And they're all over complaining it's like you know, when

1759
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 1: Springsteen went over more than one hundred dollars, all those

1760
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 1: people complained. Meanwhile, they go to dinner for more than

1761
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars a person before the damn show. Once

1762
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 1: the show played, nobody cared, not to mention not every

1763
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: venue was clean, major markets were clean, whatever, blah blah blah.

1764
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: No at this laid date, is it really going to

1765
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:19,679
Speaker 1: hurt the act if you charge what the ticket is worth?

1766
01:29:24,920 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I think so, But again, let me so,

1767
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 2: there's two different conversations or two different I don't want

1768
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:36,719
Speaker 2: to say arguments, but there's there's two different scenarios here.

1769
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 2: For the top level acts. You're absolutely right you can

1770
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:44,559
Speaker 2: charge more and maybe they should. Okay, when you again,

1771
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 2: when you get back down to like the working bands,

1772
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 2: that's where it is, that's where it's more most effective

1773
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 2: against them, Right, that's where it hurts the most because

1774
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:56,599
Speaker 2: if they're let's you know, let's call it a fifty

1775
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:58,680
Speaker 2: dollars ticket. When it's a fifty dollars ticket, it's on

1776
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:00,640
Speaker 2: resale for when twenty five s they have charged one

1777
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 2: twenty five, Well, if they did, the resale would be higher. Again,

1778
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 2: now they're not going to be thousands of them on there,

1779
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:08,679
Speaker 2: but there might be you know, two or three dozen,

1780
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:10,639
Speaker 2: or there could be hundreds, depending on the size venue

1781
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,680
Speaker 2: they're playing. And yes, maybe it'll get overbought as well,

1782
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,639
Speaker 2: and that happens, but see when that happens, that also

1783
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 2: affects the acts because when the when the resellers or

1784
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 2: the bots whatever buy up a lot, a huge lot

1785
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 2: like that, and they put it up for resale for

1786
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 2: again higher than whatever's being charged, and they don't sell them,

1787
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 2: then they drop the price to get rid of them,

1788
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 2: because at that point they just want to dump them.

1789
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,639
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, you know, you're charging

1790
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 2: seventy five bucks per ticket. It's on resale for one

1791
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 2: point fifty, right, and then all of a sudden they're

1792
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 2: available for thirty five and then you know, and it's like, oh,

1793
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 2: I got a ticket for thirty five. You know, it's

1794
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,599
Speaker 2: like that doesn't help us, that doesn't help the artist.

1795
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 2: So you know, that's another argument too, because that's just resellers.

1796
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 2: But and there's not going to be any way to

1797
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:58,639
Speaker 2: control this, I know that because they have more money

1798
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:01,759
Speaker 2: than anybody has as far as you don't talk about lobbying,

1799
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 2: they spend a fortune lobbying. They're everywhere, you know, the

1800
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:08,439
Speaker 2: resellers are everywhere, lobbying everywhere. The only the only place

1801
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,680
Speaker 2: where they got semi defeated was in Maine recently with

1802
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 2: that main bill that went through.

1803
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the main bill, because this affects

1804
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:28,800
Speaker 1: certain congressional stuff. The laws on the books. Okay, ye

1805
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: means obviously a small state, but they have Portland Real

1806
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: Augustus premate line or market. Yeah, but how the hell

1807
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 1: are you gonna enforce it? And they're not going to

1808
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 1: put it, give any money to enforce it. So it's

1809
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: a victory exactly.

1810
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 2: The enforcement's the important thing. Look, we got there's a

1811
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:47,599
Speaker 2: law in the books not as good as the main

1812
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 2: law in New York State, and it's not enforced a time,

1813
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:54,559
Speaker 2: right or maybe a lot of the time. You're right,

1814
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:56,599
Speaker 2: it's the enforcement. So we were talking again, we were

1815
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 2: talking about this in Milwaukee's It's one thing to actually

1816
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:02,719
Speaker 2: get a law asked. But what seems like they don't

1817
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:04,840
Speaker 2: do is they don't set up the enforcement, you know,

1818
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:06,920
Speaker 2: like in advance. And if you do this, it's this,

1819
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:08,720
Speaker 2: you know, and it's going to cost this. And even

1820
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:10,559
Speaker 2: if they say, okay, if you do this, you're going

1821
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 2: to be fine. One hundred and fifty grand, Like who's

1822
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 2: going out there looking for it and who's doing It's

1823
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:16,920
Speaker 2: not gonna be that high, but you know, a thousand dollars,

1824
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 2: you know, an incident or whatever, who's going out there

1825
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:24,840
Speaker 2: doing it. If they do do that, then these laws

1826
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,360
Speaker 2: have teeth. You know, then maybe some of the stops,

1827
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 2: but it's a matter of them doing it. And that's

1828
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 2: something that we're working on. That's part of what we're

1829
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 2: working on. Part of our advocacy is trying to see,

1830
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:38,679
Speaker 2: you know, trying to get some of these things enforced,

1831
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 2: trying to change the laws a little bit, you know,

1832
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:44,400
Speaker 2: trying to trying to angle them a little bit more

1833
01:32:44,400 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 2: towards you know, in pavor of the Act. And we

1834
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 2: have to do the same thing with those people, you know,

1835
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:53,000
Speaker 2: the representatives that we do when we're when you know,

1836
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 2: when we're talking in general, while I'm talking to you,

1837
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:58,200
Speaker 2: we have to qualify, yeah, the top one percent or

1838
01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:01,519
Speaker 2: over here, and they do that and that's okay because

1839
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,240
Speaker 2: for them, you know, it's play money. But for the

1840
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 2: working band, this is important. This really hurts them, and

1841
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,440
Speaker 2: it's it's hard to get some of those guys to focus.

1842
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 2: I mean, let me tell you a little side story

1843
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 2: on this one too, in two different situations. I won't

1844
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 2: say where and who because I don't want to get

1845
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 2: anybody in trouble. But so I had a promoter that

1846
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 2: I spoke to in a major market in a state

1847
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 2: that doesn't have a law you know, about this stuff,

1848
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 2: or doesn't have a good law. And I was trying

1849
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:32,360
Speaker 2: to see if I could get him interested in, you know,

1850
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 2: in doing something about it. So I called him up

1851
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:37,400
Speaker 2: and it was somebody who one of the people who

1852
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:39,639
Speaker 2: worked for him had told me that on one show

1853
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 2: that they had sixty percent of the house was bought

1854
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 2: by the resale market. Wow. Right, yeah, exactly, that's what

1855
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 2: I said. And when the show played, half the place

1856
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 2: was empty, right because they didn't all show up because

1857
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 2: as you say, they probably ought, were you intimated before

1858
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 2: they overbought and they didn't show up. So, uh, I

1859
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:03,200
Speaker 2: was talking about it, and he said to me, I

1860
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 2: have to talk to these guys, you know, because he

1861
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:06,559
Speaker 2: knows some of these people. Obviously most of the major

1862
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:10,040
Speaker 2: promoters do. He said, Uh, I've talked to these guys,

1863
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:12,280
Speaker 2: but the one guy you know, the one key guy

1864
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 2: like the resellers, his buddy, Like, that's where he gets

1865
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 2: his sports tickets. And when he wants to go see

1866
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 2: you know, Taylor Swift or Beyonce or whatever, that's where

1867
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 2: he goes to get his tickets. He doesn't want to

1868
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:23,600
Speaker 2: have to go online and buy his tickets. He just

1869
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:26,559
Speaker 2: calls up gets his tickets. He considers him a mom

1870
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:32,599
Speaker 2: and pop business. And I'm like, seriously, So that's that one.

1871
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,479
Speaker 2: And then we had a similar thing in another state

1872
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 2: that we were working on where one of the guys,

1873
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 2: uh that was that we were that that two of

1874
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 2: our members were going to to you know, to try

1875
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:46,720
Speaker 2: to lobby. He was like, no, I think you know, no,

1876
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 2: they're fine, They're okay. You know, they're not bad people.

1877
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 2: And you know, because he gets his tickets there, like,

1878
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:54,800
Speaker 2: and that's what they do. I mean, they know how

1879
01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 2: to feed the monster, right. They take care of them.

1880
01:34:57,479 --> 01:34:59,120
Speaker 2: They take care of them so that they get taken

1881
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 2: care of. So something that we probably will never solve,

1882
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 2: but we continue to work on it.

1883
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:07,680
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk to Desky Trucks. You've been involved with

1884
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 1: Derek Trucks from day one. Derek was a phenom he

1885
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 1: played with the Almond Brothers, ultimately gets married to susanho

1886
01:35:15,080 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 1: has her own career. They've been going out as the

1887
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: Tedsky Trucks being certainly in excess.

1888
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:20,720
Speaker 2: Of a decade.

1889
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:26,439
Speaker 1: In the all days, the pre internet days, the goal

1890
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:29,920
Speaker 1: would be to get a record company deal. As you said,

1891
01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 1: the company would support you as long as you continue

1892
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:35,680
Speaker 1: to stay look like you were going to be in

1893
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 1: the black and you would have a breakthrough track. It's

1894
01:35:41,200 --> 01:35:43,719
Speaker 1: a little different in the late sixties and early seventies,

1895
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 1: but certainly the eighties they're waiting for you to cut

1896
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:48,479
Speaker 1: that one track that's going to make it all work

1897
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 1: for them. Okay, even the biggest tracks on the Spotify

1898
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:56,720
Speaker 1: Top fifty today are not known by most people. So

1899
01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: the paradigm is done. So like Tedsky Trucks. A is

1900
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:08,639
Speaker 1: it growing? B what is the potential upside? See? What

1901
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:10,880
Speaker 1: is the goal? D? What might get you there?

1902
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:20,880
Speaker 2: Oh boy, another deep suitcase to unpack? Okay, so yeah,

1903
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 2: Tedesky Truck. So it's fifteen years, Bob, fifteen years almost two, well,

1904
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:28,680
Speaker 2: fifteen years to the day, probably at the end of

1905
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 2: the month, at the end of the year, but fifteen

1906
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:35,840
Speaker 2: years and when we started out, and I'll guess I'll

1907
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:39,679
Speaker 2: start there, wave at me or whatever if I'm getting

1908
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:42,520
Speaker 2: too lost in the weeds. But when we started out,

1909
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 2: we had an eight piece band. It's twelve pieces now

1910
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:48,120
Speaker 2: we had an eighth piece ban That was the concept

1911
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:50,120
Speaker 2: they wanted to do. They wanted to take out a band,

1912
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 2: you know, full band, double drummers, you know whatever, didn't

1913
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:57,760
Speaker 2: have horns in those days, and had two singers now

1914
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:01,080
Speaker 2: at three so apiece, and so it was going to

1915
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 2: be expensive from the outset. And there was no record

1916
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:06,280
Speaker 2: because there was a brand new band they just put together.

1917
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:09,600
Speaker 2: And this certainly was no hit record, no hit single, right,

1918
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:13,840
Speaker 2: there's none of that yet. So the the thing was,

1919
01:37:13,960 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 2: and it was something that I was chomping at the

1920
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:19,960
Speaker 2: bit to do for a number of years actually, was

1921
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 2: to have them get together. Would be like I thought,

1922
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,320
Speaker 2: this could be it, right, and I think it has been.

1923
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:30,080
Speaker 2: But anyway, but as a backup, so I had to

1924
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 2: and there was you know, no record company support, right

1925
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:34,719
Speaker 2: as you said, I mean there was a record company.

1926
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:36,760
Speaker 2: There was Derek's record company who actually put out I

1927
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:39,760
Speaker 2: think their first album, and then they moved, you know

1928
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:41,800
Speaker 2: after I think after the first album they moved to

1929
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 2: another label, but certainly no labels are going to do

1930
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:46,120
Speaker 2: what has what used to be done right in the

1931
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 2: old days, like we were talking about earlier. Right, they

1932
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 2: would have been a couple of one hundred grand for

1933
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:51,760
Speaker 2: the tour. They would have been a market, they've been

1934
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:54,040
Speaker 2: a big party, they would have dropped the record. It

1935
01:37:54,040 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 2: would have been like a you know, pr blitz, like

1936
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 2: the whole thing. Okay, So none of that. So this

1937
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:00,560
Speaker 2: had to be worked from the ground which in a

1938
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 2: way was kind of a godsend because it wasn't going

1939
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 2: to be a hype and it could be built, you know,

1940
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 2: from from the ground up. Both of them had a base,

1941
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 2: and it was just a matter of building a beer base.

1942
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:13,880
Speaker 2: So I went to people that I thought would be

1943
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 2: interested promoters, people who I happened to speak to right

1944
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 2: after they decided they were going to do this, who

1945
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:23,599
Speaker 2: were hey, what's new? And I said, oh, I got this.

1946
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:25,320
Speaker 2: You want to know something new, I got something new.

1947
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 2: The problem is, honestly, you're not going to make any

1948
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:30,679
Speaker 2: money for three years, and truthfully that was my line.

1949
01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,040
Speaker 2: You are not making money for three years if you

1950
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:35,640
Speaker 2: do this. Well, why is that? Because I need a

1951
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 2: certain amount of money to keep them on the road.

1952
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:39,679
Speaker 2: They have to have a certain amount of money each night.

1953
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:42,800
Speaker 2: If not, they're not going to work. So it's one

1954
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:44,479
Speaker 2: of the others. So if you're in, you're in. If

1955
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 2: you're out, you're out. It's okay, you know whatever. And

1956
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:49,559
Speaker 2: so I had, you know, probably two or three people

1957
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 2: that were okay, yeah, I like that, let's do it.

1958
01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 2: So we started out doing that, so, you know, and

1959
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:56,400
Speaker 2: we went out and built it up. I'll skip all

1960
01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:58,200
Speaker 2: the middle part, but basically we did a bunch of

1961
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:03,040
Speaker 2: work the band through over time fairly quickly. They played

1962
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:04,760
Speaker 2: a date in New York. I think it was in

1963
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 2: New York and they invited some horns to come and

1964
01:39:06,880 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 2: sit in and it was pretty good. And I remember

1965
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:11,120
Speaker 2: asking Derek after the show. I said, hey, what'd you

1966
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:13,320
Speaker 2: think of the horns? He goes they were cool. I said, yeah,

1967
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 2: they are, he goes, maybe we should add them. And

1968
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:16,679
Speaker 2: I kind of shook my head. I was like, okay,

1969
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 2: I mean nod my head. I was like, yeah, that'sund

1970
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:20,320
Speaker 2: like a good idea. And so then all of a

1971
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 2: sudden they were horns and it became a twelve piece

1972
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:26,719
Speaker 2: so and it did, and those early promoters to get involved.

1973
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:29,360
Speaker 2: Probably I'm sure they didn't really make any money. Maybe

1974
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:31,479
Speaker 2: they broke even maybe they didn't, but they were in

1975
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:33,720
Speaker 2: for the beginning, you know, and they stayed in there.

1976
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:36,880
Speaker 2: So it was built from that level. And it never

1977
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,679
Speaker 2: was built on records. It was built on touring, which

1978
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:43,439
Speaker 2: is basically what's happening now anyway, but strictly built on touring.

1979
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:46,000
Speaker 2: And how big could it be? Well, at the beginning,

1980
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,080
Speaker 2: I remember people saying to me, I can't believe you're

1981
01:39:48,080 --> 01:39:49,960
Speaker 2: doing this. There's no way this is going to work.

1982
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:52,720
Speaker 2: Get eight people. Even in the early days, you got

1983
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:54,360
Speaker 2: eight people, because don't forget you get eight people plus

1984
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:57,479
Speaker 2: the crew. So maybe there was fourteen or fifteen, you

1985
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:00,680
Speaker 2: know whatever, maybe fourteen. You got fourteen people on the road.

1986
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 2: How are you going to keep you know, two buses

1987
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 2: and how are you going to keep that going? I said, well,

1988
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:06,840
Speaker 2: we'll do it until we can't, and you know, we

1989
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:08,680
Speaker 2: did it, and it built up little by little, and

1990
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:10,040
Speaker 2: it was a matter of it was a matter of

1991
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 2: doing what I said earlier. It was a matter of knowing,

1992
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 2: feeling where to go, taking some shots, seeing where it worked,

1993
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:20,240
Speaker 2: and it didn't knowing that if it worked over here,

1994
01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:22,960
Speaker 2: it could probably work over here, and then just kind

1995
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 2: of building it up and building it up to the

1996
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:28,000
Speaker 2: point where you know, now everybody can you know, everybody

1997
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:29,920
Speaker 2: being fans or whatever in the business can walk around

1998
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:32,880
Speaker 2: and go, oh, yeah, of course Today'skee trucks. Well yeah,

1999
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,800
Speaker 2: of course, but you know, it's fifteen years. It took

2000
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:38,160
Speaker 2: about I had told them when we sat down with

2001
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:41,720
Speaker 2: the you know, the then manager, it would take I

2002
01:40:41,720 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 2: remember saying to what we had lunch, I said, I'm

2003
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:49,960
Speaker 2: in for penny, in for a pound on this. I

2004
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:51,840
Speaker 2: think it's going to take three to five years. If

2005
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:55,599
Speaker 2: you're willing to invest yourself time in three to five years,

2006
01:40:56,080 --> 01:40:58,400
Speaker 2: I'm in. But it's probably going to take that because

2007
01:40:58,400 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 2: I knew, you know, unless we had a hit record,

2008
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:02,280
Speaker 2: it's going to take time to build it. And we

2009
01:41:02,400 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 2: really started, it really started, you know, uh, whatever you

2010
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:10,920
Speaker 2: want to call it, like, you know, gliding on its

2011
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 2: own if you want to call it that. Probably year seven,

2012
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:18,639
Speaker 2: you know, where it was like okay, we're here, you know, three, yes, five, yes,

2013
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 2: but seven was like yep, we're here, and you know,

2014
01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:25,439
Speaker 2: from then, where can you go? So people said, well,

2015
01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:26,880
Speaker 2: maybe it's never going to get out of here. So

2016
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:32,120
Speaker 2: eventually they played Madison Square Garden, you know, and we did.

2017
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:34,680
Speaker 2: We didn't do the full venue, but we did the

2018
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:36,599
Speaker 2: you know whatever. It is a twelve five setup, which

2019
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:39,760
Speaker 2: is what most people do right front and sides, and

2020
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:41,880
Speaker 2: we did, you know, phenomenal and it was like there

2021
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:44,800
Speaker 2: was terrent I remember there was torrential rain that day.

2022
01:41:45,080 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 2: The subways were flooded, the tunnels were flooded. I thought

2023
01:41:48,400 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 2: we were gonna have to cancel the show. In the end,

2024
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 2: uh we you know, we played it and people came,

2025
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 2: which was a rain stopped in the afternoon, luckily, but

2026
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:01,000
Speaker 2: it was torrential. It was you know, it was everywhere.

2027
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:04,560
Speaker 2: It was shutting things down. It was so bad. And

2028
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, we played it and there was you know,

2029
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 2: more no shows than we would would have liked. But

2030
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:11,040
Speaker 2: still the place was full and it was phenomenal. And

2031
01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:12,919
Speaker 2: so that was a step that was just to say,

2032
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 2: you know, or said to us, rather, Okay, we're here now,

2033
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 2: we can do whatever we want. We can go back

2034
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:19,880
Speaker 2: to what we're doing. But you know, earlier on we

2035
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:23,640
Speaker 2: started doing the amphitheaters, you know, in the summertime. We

2036
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:26,360
Speaker 2: did the theaters in the in the winter and or

2037
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:29,360
Speaker 2: fall and spring and in the winter actually because they

2038
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:32,240
Speaker 2: used to work. At one point they were working, you know,

2039
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 2: anywhere from seventy to eighty, maybe ninety shows a year.

2040
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:36,880
Speaker 2: One year they hit one hundred and ten I think,

2041
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 2: which was probably their biggest year. But that's a lot

2042
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:43,080
Speaker 2: of work, you know, playing on the road. And they

2043
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:45,519
Speaker 2: had kids too, so that that did that didn't help.

2044
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:48,559
Speaker 2: But you know, it built up and it got too

2045
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:50,559
Speaker 2: a place where now so your question, one of your

2046
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:52,360
Speaker 2: questions is like where does it go from here? I'm

2047
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:54,320
Speaker 2: not sure where it goes, but but it's in a

2048
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 2: place where it's not an overdrive but kind of like

2049
01:42:58,360 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's a fan base. It's still growing. Okay,

2050
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,360
Speaker 2: it's not it's not really diminishing. I mean I watched

2051
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:08,840
Speaker 2: the shows. Uh you know whenever I'm out, you know

2052
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,040
Speaker 2: there and I see the people, and I don't see

2053
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 2: people getting up and leaving, you know what I mean. Well,

2054
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:15,760
Speaker 2: when a lot of shows it's like, okay, I've seen

2055
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:17,439
Speaker 2: half of it. I'm going now when they do there

2056
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:21,800
Speaker 2: like you know, uh evening with and I have the

2057
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:24,240
Speaker 2: break in the middle. Sometimes you see that with other acts,

2058
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:26,200
Speaker 2: people start leaving during the break. Now they don't. They

2059
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 2: go out, they buy beer, they buy whatever, they buy

2060
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, snacks, whatever, and they come back in buy merchandise. Uh,

2061
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:34,479
Speaker 2: they come back in, so uh, you know it's there.

2062
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 2: So so then now the next thing is, you know,

2063
01:43:39,240 --> 01:43:41,360
Speaker 2: which is one of the things you know that they did,

2064
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:43,280
Speaker 2: you know, beginning a few years ago, is they started

2065
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:46,080
Speaker 2: beefing up the production a little bit because because it

2066
01:43:46,640 --> 01:43:49,840
Speaker 2: really has been and it still is but has been

2067
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:53,240
Speaker 2: uh since the beginning. You know, a musical act and

2068
01:43:53,320 --> 01:43:55,040
Speaker 2: you've seen them, so I think you know what I mean.

2069
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:56,559
Speaker 2: But it's an act that you go there and you

2070
01:43:56,600 --> 01:43:58,519
Speaker 2: look and you go out. These guys can play, all

2071
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 2: of them, any one of them. It's it's almost like

2072
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:02,920
Speaker 2: any one of them without doing a pitch on the band.

2073
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:04,760
Speaker 2: It's almost like any one of them could have their

2074
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 2: own band. It might not be a big band, but

2075
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:08,720
Speaker 2: any one of them can have their own band. And

2076
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:10,680
Speaker 2: in fact, most of the guys up there have their

2077
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 2: own bands, you know, their side projects, right so, you know,

2078
01:44:14,160 --> 01:44:19,280
Speaker 2: because they're really accomplished musicians. So the music and all

2079
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:22,519
Speaker 2: that's solid, you know, the sets, the shows, whatever. So

2080
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 2: then they started doing the next thing, which is they

2081
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 2: they've over the last three four years, they've started beefing

2082
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:30,240
Speaker 2: up the production a little bit, adding a little bit

2083
01:44:30,240 --> 01:44:35,120
Speaker 2: more production value, entertainment value, you know, packaging. We did

2084
01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:39,000
Speaker 2: this summer. They're doing you know, shows package with larger

2085
01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 2: acts where it's more of a co bill, trying to

2086
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:45,599
Speaker 2: you know, trying to present themselves to a larger audience

2087
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:49,720
Speaker 2: if possible. They've done festivals. You know, they don't live

2088
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 2: on festivals, but they've done them. I don't know, this

2089
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 2: is a personal thing we won't get into, but I

2090
01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:55,000
Speaker 2: don't know the festivals they add that much to you

2091
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:55,920
Speaker 2: unless maybe you're.

2092
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:58,680
Speaker 1: Well that was going to be my next question, but continue.

2093
01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:02,479
Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll hold it then for then a hold

2094
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 2: that one. But yeah, so, yeah, it is growing, you know,

2095
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 2: it's like it's like anything else, though it goes in spurts.

2096
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:11,040
Speaker 2: So there was a point where we were doing this little,

2097
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 2: you know, this thing at the beginning, and then we

2098
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 2: leaped like around year three or so, right, and then

2099
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:17,920
Speaker 2: were all of a sudden we started doing multiple theaters,

2100
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:20,960
Speaker 2: which was a plan. And the plan was to have

2101
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:22,599
Speaker 2: them because they were doing a lot of shows a year,

2102
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:25,639
Speaker 2: was to have them traveling less but doing the same

2103
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:28,519
Speaker 2: amount of business and being able to generate the income

2104
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 2: they needed to keep the band going. So we started

2105
01:45:31,160 --> 01:45:33,800
Speaker 2: doing multiples and then you know, then there was a

2106
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:35,519
Speaker 2: thing where kind of set there, and then we jumped

2107
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:38,120
Speaker 2: up and did more multiples in certain places, added some

2108
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 2: more cities, and we started doing the outdoor thing, you know,

2109
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:42,479
Speaker 2: in the summertime, and they did that as a as

2110
01:45:42,479 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 2: a scenario, and then and tried to play different markets,

2111
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:50,559
Speaker 2: so you know, we're getting to different people and you know,

2112
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,040
Speaker 2: so and then so then maybe it settled in for

2113
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 2: a little bit and then now there's going to probably

2114
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:58,120
Speaker 2: be another spurt coming up, so it grows in spurts.

2115
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 2: It not every act, every live act or artist goes like,

2116
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:05,440
Speaker 2: you know, straight up. It's not a straight up trajectory.

2117
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:08,080
Speaker 2: Usually if it is, then it starts coming down quicker,

2118
01:46:08,280 --> 01:46:10,640
Speaker 2: I think. I mean, there's exceptions to every rule, but

2119
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 2: then usually there's a down, you know, coming down over here.

2120
01:46:13,439 --> 01:46:15,120
Speaker 2: Now it may go back up again at some point,

2121
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:19,240
Speaker 2: but it could also just crash back. So slower trajectory

2122
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 2: is better. And you know, I think there's you know,

2123
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 2: they can they can tour as long as they want

2124
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:27,200
Speaker 2: to or not I mean it don't have the tour,

2125
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:29,439
Speaker 2: but I mean they do to give the band together,

2126
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:31,200
Speaker 2: but they can tour as long as they want.

2127
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:36,760
Speaker 1: Well, is the question here, especially today's major market, is

2128
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:42,240
Speaker 1: there a limited audience or is there a growth potential

2129
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 1: from people who just haven't been exposed to it.

2130
01:46:46,360 --> 01:46:49,680
Speaker 2: There's there's a growth potential to people that haven't been

2131
01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:52,360
Speaker 2: exposed to it. And what we find is what we

2132
01:46:52,479 --> 01:46:55,439
Speaker 2: have found over time over the course of the career

2133
01:46:55,560 --> 01:46:59,640
Speaker 2: so far, and initially the manager and I will when

2134
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,000
Speaker 2: at first started out, we had a we had an etho,

2135
01:47:02,120 --> 01:47:04,720
Speaker 2: but the two of us had an ethos. We just

2136
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 2: got to get into a town and play. People will

2137
01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:10,439
Speaker 2: see us and they'll come back and bring a friend.

2138
01:47:12,040 --> 01:47:14,640
Speaker 2: And it almost worked like that everywhere right first time

2139
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:15,960
Speaker 2: we played in New York? Who played one day at

2140
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:20,679
Speaker 2: the Beacon, which was a shot. Okay. When I tried

2141
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:24,040
Speaker 2: to get the Beacon Theater date together, I called, I

2142
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 2: spoke to three different promoters, none of which wanted to

2143
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:31,840
Speaker 2: do it, and I finally John Cher said he would

2144
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:34,519
Speaker 2: raise his hand and I said, okay, Well, he said,

2145
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:35,600
Speaker 2: what do you want to do in New York? And

2146
01:47:35,640 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 2: I said, I The first show in New York. By

2147
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:39,120
Speaker 2: the way, they hadn't played here yet as that band.

2148
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:41,160
Speaker 2: I said, I want to either be in Central Park

2149
01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:43,080
Speaker 2: in the summer. I want to play the Beacon Theater headlining.

2150
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 2: And he said, what's the deal, And I said, there

2151
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:50,080
Speaker 2: is no deal. This I shouldn't tell you, Bob, but

2152
01:47:50,120 --> 01:47:52,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you because it's you. I said,

2153
01:47:52,120 --> 01:47:54,679
Speaker 2: there is no deal. Forget the deal. I want the Beacon.

2154
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Give me, give me a weekend night in the fall

2155
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,080
Speaker 2: and it's your show. And he got it Saturday night.

2156
01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:02,280
Speaker 2: I don't know how he got it, but he got

2157
01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:04,680
Speaker 2: it because it's hard to get the Beacon. Uh. And

2158
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:06,760
Speaker 2: I put the date together and we didn't have a guarantee.

2159
01:48:07,280 --> 01:48:10,680
Speaker 2: We did a straight percentage of the door. Okay, we

2160
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 2: sold it and we sold out. Well, we finish your story.

2161
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:17,360
Speaker 2: So we sold out. Everybody made money. And then the

2162
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:19,280
Speaker 2: next time, you know, we came around. He goes, Okay,

2163
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:20,760
Speaker 2: we're going to do it again next year and I said, no,

2164
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:23,960
Speaker 2: next year, we're doing two. And he was going, well,

2165
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:26,000
Speaker 2: you're crazy, blah blah, and I said no, we're doing too.

2166
01:48:26,040 --> 01:48:28,599
Speaker 2: Because again, our theory was everyone's going to bring a friend,

2167
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:34,160
Speaker 2: so let's try it out, and we did, and we

2168
01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:38,240
Speaker 2: did a weekend. Okay, honest truth, we didn't sell it

2169
01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:40,240
Speaker 2: to the rafter. You know, we didn't sell every seat

2170
01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:42,360
Speaker 2: in the house, but we fucking basically sold it out.

2171
01:48:42,400 --> 01:48:44,599
Speaker 2: I mean it was. It was a great two nights.

2172
01:48:45,200 --> 01:48:47,080
Speaker 2: And that's when I went upstairs to the back of

2173
01:48:47,080 --> 01:48:48,600
Speaker 2: the house and I looked, and I thought, we're not

2174
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:51,960
Speaker 2: selling any seats upstairs. What can we do about that?

2175
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:54,560
Speaker 2: And I thought, let's try this. And I talked to

2176
01:48:54,600 --> 01:48:56,280
Speaker 2: the manager and I said, let's make the back of

2177
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:59,439
Speaker 2: the house really inexpensive. Think the upstate had been to

2178
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:02,959
Speaker 2: the Beacon, so you know the you know the upstairs

2179
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:04,679
Speaker 2: balcony at the way back, I mean, you're up there.

2180
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:07,360
Speaker 2: They call the nosebleads, but actually they're good seats. But

2181
01:49:07,479 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 2: you know they call the nosebleeds for the Beacon, you know,

2182
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:11,439
Speaker 2: for anywhere else, they'd be good seats, really good seats.

2183
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:15,840
Speaker 2: So we did a situation where we charged Okay, so

2184
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 2: this is interesting, okay, I think for you. So I

2185
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:22,759
Speaker 2: made a deal with between the promoter and the venue.

2186
01:49:22,840 --> 01:49:27,080
Speaker 2: I got them to agree to do an all in price. Okay,

2187
01:49:27,160 --> 01:49:35,320
Speaker 2: this is ten years ago, all in thirty bucks next

2188
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 2: time we played the venue, we sold all the seats

2189
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:41,479
Speaker 2: and I walked up there to see who is going

2190
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:43,240
Speaker 2: to be up there, and so some of the argument was,

2191
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:46,360
Speaker 2: you're just gonna you're gonna, you're gonna cannibalize, you know,

2192
01:49:46,439 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 2: the other seats you're selling. I said, I don't think so.

2193
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 2: I think they're fans. Even though we've only done it

2194
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:53,240
Speaker 2: in a couple of years, I think they're fans, or

2195
01:49:53,280 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 2: maybe it was three years before we did that. I

2196
01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:58,439
Speaker 2: think their fans are going to want to sit close.

2197
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:01,040
Speaker 2: That's what they want. They want to be comfortable and close.

2198
01:50:01,080 --> 01:50:03,960
Speaker 2: That's who their fans are. I think up here we're

2199
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:07,800
Speaker 2: going to have people that want to see them but

2200
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 2: don't want to pay seventy five dollars or sixty nine

2201
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:13,720
Speaker 2: or whatever the present. So we kept that for a

2202
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:15,519
Speaker 2: lot of years, and I used to go up there

2203
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:18,000
Speaker 2: and check at every show and you'd see you'd see

2204
01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 2: the face is not the particular people, but you could

2205
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:23,320
Speaker 2: tell those people haven't been here before, or those people

2206
01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:25,080
Speaker 2: or there were young couples. I went to a young

2207
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 2: couple and I said, hey, how you doing. You ever

2208
01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:28,880
Speaker 2: seen the band before? And they go, oh, yeah, we

2209
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:32,240
Speaker 2: saw them once we love them. They said oh. I said,

2210
01:50:32,280 --> 01:50:34,960
Speaker 2: oh great, and they said yeah, in fact, we came

2211
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:38,440
Speaker 2: tonight because we just got engaged. I said, oh, that's awesome, congratulations.

2212
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:41,439
Speaker 2: So they were there because obviously they wanted to pay

2213
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:43,479
Speaker 2: sixty bucks and not have to pay like one hundred

2214
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:45,360
Speaker 2: and twenty or whatever it was. And fine, it probably

2215
01:50:45,360 --> 01:50:47,280
Speaker 2: really couldn't afford it, but they wanted to see the band.

2216
01:50:47,760 --> 01:50:49,800
Speaker 2: The other thing that happens up there, or did happen

2217
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:51,280
Speaker 2: up there, is you get when we started doing the

2218
01:50:51,360 --> 01:50:53,599
Speaker 2: multiple nights, right, you get people that want to come

2219
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:55,160
Speaker 2: back but don't want to pay one hundred and twenty five.

2220
01:50:56,080 --> 01:50:58,240
Speaker 2: So they'll you know, one hundred twenty five one night

2221
01:50:58,240 --> 01:51:00,600
Speaker 2: and they'll go sit upstairs, you know, for sixty for

2222
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:02,320
Speaker 2: two of them or whatever, you know, two people or

2223
01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:05,160
Speaker 2: whatever or a group will go sit up there. So

2224
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:08,800
Speaker 2: we use that anyway. So from the two days, the

2225
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 2: next time we played, I said, let's do three, and

2226
01:51:15,040 --> 01:51:16,680
Speaker 2: John said, you're out of your mind. I said, no,

2227
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:20,639
Speaker 2: it'd be fine. We'll do Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So that's

2228
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:22,639
Speaker 2: what we did and we oh, no, sorry, we did.

2229
01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:24,280
Speaker 2: We were actually going to do four. We're going to

2230
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:27,559
Speaker 2: do Friday Saturday, Friday Saturday, which he really freaked out about.

2231
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:30,639
Speaker 2: But we ended up doing three for other reasons because

2232
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:32,439
Speaker 2: we had there was another show that they played with

2233
01:51:32,479 --> 01:51:34,360
Speaker 2: somebody else and it was kind of in conflict, but

2234
01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:35,960
Speaker 2: they had the dates on hold already, so we only

2235
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:37,960
Speaker 2: did three instead of four, and we did great business,

2236
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:40,080
Speaker 2: and then the time after we did four, So it

2237
01:51:40,120 --> 01:51:42,719
Speaker 2: was a matter of and so I think the theory

2238
01:51:42,800 --> 01:51:45,880
Speaker 2: held true. Also, we had people that would come multiple nights,

2239
01:51:45,920 --> 01:51:48,800
Speaker 2: but not as big as most people. Most people thought.

2240
01:51:48,920 --> 01:51:51,160
Speaker 2: Most people thought, oh, yeah, they're you know, the fans

2241
01:51:51,160 --> 01:51:53,400
Speaker 2: are just buying tickets again. Now I used to look

2242
01:51:53,439 --> 01:51:55,599
Speaker 2: at the you know, the ticketing reports. We were doing

2243
01:51:55,640 --> 01:51:58,680
Speaker 2: about thirteen percent repeats. It wasn't that high. You know,

2244
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:01,160
Speaker 2: it's probably more now, but you know, because now they'll

2245
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:04,120
Speaker 2: do six days or seven days or whatever. But you know,

2246
01:52:04,160 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 2: it wasn't as high as people thought. People thought, you know,

2247
01:52:05,960 --> 01:52:08,559
Speaker 2: we were doing fifty percent repeats or whatever, thirty percent.

2248
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 2: We weren't doing it. It was thirteen. Maybe some people

2249
01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:13,960
Speaker 2: did come back twice, or they came back again and

2250
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:23,040
Speaker 2: brought a different friend with them.

2251
01:52:23,240 --> 01:52:26,880
Speaker 1: Okay, we've touched on festivals in the old days. Yeah.

2252
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:30,679
Speaker 1: Up until very recently, you know, you played at twelve

2253
01:52:30,840 --> 01:52:33,559
Speaker 1: or one, no one saw you. It was more to

2254
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:36,759
Speaker 1: put on your website. We played d lollaplues or whatever.

2255
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:42,080
Speaker 1: But now it's so hard to get noticed. Some acts

2256
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:46,080
Speaker 1: will play every festival and it seems like there is

2257
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:49,120
Speaker 1: some traction. What do you say to that.

2258
01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:54,439
Speaker 2: There is? I mean, there's some, but it's hard. Again,

2259
01:52:54,600 --> 01:52:57,599
Speaker 2: if you're talking about the upper ten or twenty percent

2260
01:52:57,600 --> 01:53:01,960
Speaker 2: of the acts, yes, maybe, yes, maybe, But when you

2261
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 2: get down the line right when you're an up and

2262
01:53:04,479 --> 01:53:06,719
Speaker 2: coming actor, when you're kind of one of those middle acts,

2263
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 2: you know, when you're on at three o'clock in the

2264
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:12,640
Speaker 2: afternoon on the main stage, or even if you're on

2265
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:15,280
Speaker 2: like at five o'clock on that third or second or

2266
01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:18,200
Speaker 2: third stage, like, who's seeing you? I mean, I've been

2267
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:19,960
Speaker 2: to some of these festivals. You go out at you know,

2268
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:23,680
Speaker 2: even three o'clock, who's there? Three thousand people? You know,

2269
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:26,160
Speaker 2: at eight o'clock at night is thirty thousand, At ten

2270
01:53:26,200 --> 01:53:28,200
Speaker 2: o'clock is forty thousand. You know what I mean. It's

2271
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:29,960
Speaker 2: like if you get the right and I tell us

2272
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 2: to ax all the time, but they but they want

2273
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:34,320
Speaker 2: it for the reason you opened up with Bob. They

2274
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:36,840
Speaker 2: want it on their resume. That's what they say. I

2275
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:39,760
Speaker 2: just want to say that I did it, I said, Okay,

2276
01:53:39,840 --> 01:53:42,000
Speaker 2: I mean then I lose the argument because my argument

2277
01:53:42,040 --> 01:53:44,960
Speaker 2: to them is why bother? You know, you have to

2278
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:47,640
Speaker 2: stick it in somewhere where it doesn't fit. You have

2279
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:49,960
Speaker 2: to try to surround it because you just don't want

2280
01:53:49,960 --> 01:53:51,760
Speaker 2: to fly out and do it. You can't afford to,

2281
01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:54,519
Speaker 2: and you're not making much money, and where are you playing.

2282
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:58,120
Speaker 2: You know you're planning to nobody. It's a shame. But yeah,

2283
01:53:58,120 --> 01:54:00,000
Speaker 2: there can be some traction. And every once in a while,

2284
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,320
Speaker 2: well you know, an act comes out of the festival

2285
01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 2: season or something or two or three and everybody goes, oh,

2286
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:07,280
Speaker 2: that's how to do it. There's no magic bullet in

2287
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:10,639
Speaker 2: this business. There is no magic bullet. Now, if there

2288
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:16,120
Speaker 2: was an absolute brand new led Zeppelin today, only because

2289
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:19,640
Speaker 2: they're one of my favorite bands, or Jimmy Hendrix, I

2290
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 2: think they did a couple of festival blow people away,

2291
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:23,479
Speaker 2: and yes it would happen, but if they did it

2292
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,160
Speaker 2: at one o'clock in the afternoon, nobody would frickin know.

2293
01:54:27,840 --> 01:54:32,400
Speaker 1: Okay, Another one of your long term clients is Joe Satriani.

2294
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:36,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes he works with other people. You know, it could

2295
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:39,480
Speaker 1: be too active, could be part of Sammy Hagar's being.

2296
01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:42,800
Speaker 1: Is that just a lifelong career or is there any

2297
01:54:42,920 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 1: upside in the touring of someone like Satriani.

2298
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:50,720
Speaker 2: It's a lifelong career, really, I mean there's an upside

2299
01:54:50,720 --> 01:54:52,680
Speaker 2: obviously he you know, he makes money or he wouldn't

2300
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:55,400
Speaker 2: do it. But it's a lifelong career. It's not like

2301
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:57,120
Speaker 2: you do it for you know, I don't think any

2302
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:59,080
Speaker 2: a lot of these extra five for five years and

2303
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:01,320
Speaker 2: you retire or ten years or whatever. But so I've

2304
01:55:01,320 --> 01:55:03,680
Speaker 2: represented Joe for I don't even know how long, thirty

2305
01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:09,320
Speaker 2: five years, long time, my probably longest client. He's on

2306
01:55:09,320 --> 01:55:12,000
Speaker 2: the road. So what we've done, when I say, way

2307
01:55:12,040 --> 01:55:14,880
Speaker 2: the former manager who passed away a few years ago unfortunately,

2308
01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:18,960
Speaker 2: you know, terrible accident, what we would do with Joe

2309
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:21,480
Speaker 2: is we would just try to change it up because

2310
01:55:21,520 --> 01:55:24,520
Speaker 2: again we had an artist or not again. But you know,

2311
01:55:25,040 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 2: no record company, no radio stations after the mid nineties, right,

2312
01:55:27,800 --> 01:55:31,200
Speaker 2: the AARs were dead early early to mid nineties, like

2313
01:55:31,240 --> 01:55:34,200
Speaker 2: they just went away. And that's when his career started.

2314
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:37,560
Speaker 2: You know, when I career sorry, his business, not his career,

2315
01:55:37,560 --> 01:55:39,960
Speaker 2: but his business started waning a bit, no pun intended.

2316
01:55:40,680 --> 01:55:42,840
Speaker 2: And we had conversations on the phone about it, and

2317
01:55:43,080 --> 01:55:45,240
Speaker 2: and I, you know, gave it some thought. We got

2318
01:55:45,280 --> 01:55:47,200
Speaker 2: to do something, you know. And it's not about just

2319
01:55:47,240 --> 01:55:50,560
Speaker 2: going to smaller venues, because with an artist, some of them,

2320
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:52,360
Speaker 2: some of them will accept that if they want to

2321
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:54,040
Speaker 2: just be you know, if they just want to work,

2322
01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:55,520
Speaker 2: you know, I just want to go play my music,

2323
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:57,800
Speaker 2: I'm okay. But if if they have a you know,

2324
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:02,440
Speaker 2: if they have a like an artistic you know, feeling.

2325
01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:05,000
Speaker 2: And we all have egos. All of us have egos,

2326
01:56:05,120 --> 01:56:06,800
Speaker 2: big ones, little ones. It doesn't matter. We all have

2327
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:09,600
Speaker 2: to have an ego. I think we're not most of

2328
01:56:09,640 --> 01:56:11,680
Speaker 2: us have egos. I shouldn't say, oh, maybe some people don't,

2329
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 2: but most of us have some kind of an ego.

2330
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:15,480
Speaker 2: So as an artist, you want to be able to

2331
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:17,640
Speaker 2: present yourself. You don't want to just keep going smaller

2332
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:20,880
Speaker 2: and smaller venues. So I knew that that wasn't the answer,

2333
01:56:21,120 --> 01:56:25,160
Speaker 2: you know. So we sat where I sat. We talked

2334
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:26,880
Speaker 2: on the phone, but I sat and I thought about

2335
01:56:26,880 --> 01:56:28,000
Speaker 2: it and thought about it, and I thought, okay, we

2336
01:56:28,080 --> 01:56:33,960
Speaker 2: gotta do something different. So I actually call the manager.

2337
01:56:34,080 --> 01:56:36,040
Speaker 2: I said, I have an idea. So I'm a as

2338
01:56:36,040 --> 01:56:39,040
Speaker 2: you may already know or not with the names i've

2339
01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:42,840
Speaker 2: been thrown out, I'm a lifelong guitar freak, right, guitar

2340
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 2: player freak like that's been my thing. So I've represented

2341
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 2: a lot of guitar players over the years, bands with

2342
01:56:48,280 --> 01:56:51,480
Speaker 2: you know, heavy guitar players, whatever, stand out guitar players

2343
01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:55,560
Speaker 2: even now, even now, So I thought about it. I thought,

2344
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:59,520
Speaker 2: what would those fans, especially those guitar nerds, right the gearheads,

2345
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 2: what do they want? I want to see? They want

2346
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:03,000
Speaker 2: to see they want to see guitar players. What's the

2347
01:57:03,040 --> 01:57:07,600
Speaker 2: most exciting thing for me? When I, you know, was

2348
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:10,280
Speaker 2: in college and I went to a show and I

2349
01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:12,280
Speaker 2: wanted to see a show. What was exciting. What was

2350
01:57:12,280 --> 01:57:14,560
Speaker 2: exciting is when the guitar player from one band got

2351
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 2: on stage with the guitar player from the other band.

2352
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 2: They jammed for a while. So I called the manager

2353
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:21,320
Speaker 2: one day and I said, okay, I have an idea.

2354
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 2: I said, what if we get three guitar players or

2355
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:26,880
Speaker 2: four guitar players and put them on stage with one

2356
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:31,360
Speaker 2: band and we do like the whole fucking shows almost

2357
01:57:31,400 --> 01:57:33,720
Speaker 2: a jam like, you know, they play each of their

2358
01:57:33,760 --> 01:57:36,000
Speaker 2: own songs or whatever. Then they jam some songs and

2359
01:57:36,040 --> 01:57:38,760
Speaker 2: they do all this. And I said, basically, it's an

2360
01:57:38,800 --> 01:57:42,440
Speaker 2: indoor festival. And he said, I don't know. Let me

2361
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:44,320
Speaker 2: think about it, all right, So he goes back, right,

2362
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:46,240
Speaker 2: and he calls me back. He goes. I spoke to Joe.

2363
01:57:46,360 --> 01:57:49,200
Speaker 2: It's it's not a great idea, he said. There's some

2364
01:57:49,240 --> 01:57:50,880
Speaker 2: problems with him. He said. One of them is, you know,

2365
01:57:50,880 --> 01:57:53,120
Speaker 2: they have to learn his material. He has to learn theirs.

2366
01:57:53,160 --> 01:57:54,840
Speaker 2: The other guys have to learn that, you know, blah blah.

2367
01:57:54,880 --> 01:57:57,280
Speaker 2: He said. It's there's a logistical thing here. And again

2368
01:57:57,320 --> 01:58:00,680
Speaker 2: we're not talking about you know, three chord blues, right

2369
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:03,520
Speaker 2: or whatever, three bard blues. We're talking about technique and

2370
01:58:03,560 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 2: technical you know stuff. So I thought, okay, I understand,

2371
01:58:07,040 --> 01:58:10,000
Speaker 2: you're right, he said, but how about this? He said,

2372
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:13,160
Speaker 2: what if we have three bands and the three bands

2373
01:58:13,200 --> 01:58:15,200
Speaker 2: play each their own set, and then at the end

2374
01:58:15,240 --> 01:58:18,200
Speaker 2: they jammed for half an hour. I said, that's a

2375
01:58:18,200 --> 01:58:21,120
Speaker 2: great fucking idea. Let's do that. So that became G

2376
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:24,720
Speaker 2: three and the idea was to give him another platform,

2377
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:26,720
Speaker 2: to give him something, you know, he had spoken to

2378
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:28,120
Speaker 2: Joe and they had come up with that idea of

2379
01:58:28,160 --> 01:58:29,800
Speaker 2: let's do the three bands with the three whatever and

2380
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:31,560
Speaker 2: then and then we had to come up with a name,

2381
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:34,680
Speaker 2: and he and Joe came up with G three, and

2382
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:37,120
Speaker 2: so G three was formed and that was basically three

2383
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:41,920
Speaker 2: bands led by guitar players on stage playing and then

2384
01:58:41,960 --> 01:58:45,200
Speaker 2: they jammed at the end. And to this day, especially overseas,

2385
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:48,520
Speaker 2: everyone thinks it's a band. They always called me, I

2386
01:58:48,520 --> 01:58:50,320
Speaker 2: want to book the G three band, you know whatever,

2387
01:58:50,320 --> 01:58:52,240
Speaker 2: and I go, it's not a band, it's a concept.

2388
01:58:52,480 --> 01:58:55,640
Speaker 2: So we did that for you know, many we did that. Alternately,

2389
01:58:55,840 --> 01:58:57,960
Speaker 2: Joe would go on tour with an album and then

2390
01:58:58,360 --> 01:59:00,200
Speaker 2: when he didn't have an album, we do G three

2391
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:02,320
Speaker 2: and we just, you know, we weren't like that. And

2392
01:59:02,360 --> 01:59:05,200
Speaker 2: then what happens eventually is you run out of guitar players.

2393
01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:08,200
Speaker 2: You know, unless you can get Brian May or Jeff

2394
01:59:08,280 --> 01:59:10,240
Speaker 2: Beck or you know, Jimmy Page to be in it,

2395
01:59:10,240 --> 01:59:12,960
Speaker 2: you start running out of guitar players that have teeth. Now,

2396
01:59:13,000 --> 01:59:15,320
Speaker 2: there's some good guitar players out there, but what we

2397
01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 2: found is I'm probably going deeper than you want, Bob,

2398
01:59:17,680 --> 01:59:20,120
Speaker 2: But let me know if I am no matter who

2399
01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:22,120
Speaker 2: we put on. After about the first four or five,

2400
01:59:22,640 --> 01:59:25,520
Speaker 2: the business got no better than Joe on his own

2401
01:59:26,080 --> 01:59:28,680
Speaker 2: because it virtually was the same audience because none of

2402
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:30,880
Speaker 2: the other guitar players really had teeth. The best show

2403
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:34,040
Speaker 2: was the first one the business rather again because it

2404
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:36,640
Speaker 2: was probably the first one that was Joe Eric Johnson,

2405
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:39,000
Speaker 2: who I represented at the time, and Steve I was

2406
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:41,760
Speaker 2: the opening act, and Steve and Joe grew up together,

2407
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:45,080
Speaker 2: but they never played on stage together anywhere, so that

2408
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:47,000
Speaker 2: was like the first time they were kind of playing

2409
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:49,640
Speaker 2: together on stage, right. And then we did one again

2410
01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:54,360
Speaker 2: the next time with Joe, Steve and Kenny Wayne Sheppard,

2411
01:59:55,240 --> 01:59:57,240
Speaker 2: and we had Robert Fripp playing on the side of

2412
01:59:57,240 --> 01:59:59,640
Speaker 2: the stage opening the show, but he didn't want to

2413
01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:02,080
Speaker 2: be visit and he played what he called airport music,

2414
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:05,240
Speaker 2: but we advertised him on the bill, and he wouldn't

2415
02:00:05,240 --> 02:00:06,880
Speaker 2: come out and jam with him because didn't want anybody

2416
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:10,600
Speaker 2: to see him for whatever reason. He's a lovely guy,

2417
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 2: but he's not into the spotlight basically, you know, he's

2418
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:15,160
Speaker 2: not into being in the spotlight. Uh. And then the

2419
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:17,920
Speaker 2: next one that did the second best ever, I think

2420
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:19,840
Speaker 2: it was a third or fourth one was with Ingvey

2421
02:00:19,880 --> 02:00:24,760
Speaker 2: Malmstein and that did really good business as well, because

2422
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:27,600
Speaker 2: again Ingvey had real teeth, right, And then we did

2423
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:29,560
Speaker 2: a bunch of other ones which were great, but then

2424
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:31,560
Speaker 2: it was you know, it didn't when you talk about growing,

2425
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:33,880
Speaker 2: it didn't really grow. So he kind of put it

2426
02:00:33,920 --> 02:00:35,720
Speaker 2: and we did it overseas. We did in Australia, we

2427
02:00:35,720 --> 02:00:39,160
Speaker 2: did in Europe, we did it in South America. So

2428
02:00:39,240 --> 02:00:41,160
Speaker 2: we kind of put it on hiatus for a long

2429
02:00:41,160 --> 02:00:43,600
Speaker 2: period of time. And actually the old manager and I,

2430
02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:45,680
Speaker 2: you know, at one point thought, I don't know, let's

2431
02:00:45,720 --> 02:00:48,480
Speaker 2: just or actually I recommended it to him, but he agreed.

2432
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 2: I said, let's just let's just not do it right now.

2433
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 2: It was a good brand. Let's not kill it, let's

2434
02:00:52,840 --> 02:00:54,800
Speaker 2: not let it die, Let's let it be something. Let's

2435
02:00:54,840 --> 02:00:58,360
Speaker 2: let people remember, you know. And so we let that go.

2436
02:00:58,480 --> 02:01:02,240
Speaker 2: So then what happened last was it last year? Yeah?

2437
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:04,120
Speaker 2: I think it was last year the beginning of last year.

2438
02:01:04,160 --> 02:01:08,240
Speaker 2: So last year was like the we call it the

2439
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:10,240
Speaker 2: twenty fifth anniversary, but I think it was actually like

2440
02:01:10,240 --> 02:01:13,160
Speaker 2: the twenty seventh really of G three. We put the

2441
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:16,880
Speaker 2: original lineup back together in the original way, you know,

2442
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:18,720
Speaker 2: that we did it. Oh, no, we did it, but

2443
02:01:18,760 --> 02:01:20,920
Speaker 2: I think Eric open this time. We put the lineup

2444
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:22,880
Speaker 2: back together and we just did a west coast run,

2445
02:01:23,520 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 2: you know, north to south, because Joe wanted to do

2446
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:30,120
Speaker 2: a documentary on G three and he wanted to film

2447
02:01:30,160 --> 02:01:31,960
Speaker 2: some live stuff and he wanted the guys back together.

2448
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:34,720
Speaker 2: He wanted to do it then and now, which they did.

2449
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:37,000
Speaker 2: They did that. So I put a run of dates together.

2450
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:39,960
Speaker 2: You know, that would pay for itself, make the guys

2451
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:43,160
Speaker 2: a few bucks, you know, you know that we're playing.

2452
02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:45,840
Speaker 2: And so Joe could put a documentary together, which was

2453
02:01:45,960 --> 02:01:47,800
Speaker 2: actually done by his son who went to film school.

2454
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:50,440
Speaker 2: He's the director. And it was great. The business was great.

2455
02:01:50,480 --> 02:01:52,960
Speaker 2: The business was like the first time, it was amazing. Actually,

2456
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:55,680
Speaker 2: so it still has you know, it still has something,

2457
02:01:55,720 --> 02:01:59,360
Speaker 2: it still has, you know, appeal. And then following that,

2458
02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:02,040
Speaker 2: for the rest of the country. I had planned this

2459
02:02:02,120 --> 02:02:06,160
Speaker 2: in advance. We did a Joe Satriiny band Steve Vaiband tour,

2460
02:02:06,520 --> 02:02:09,480
Speaker 2: which we had never done before, with the two of

2461
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:11,600
Speaker 2: them playing, each with their own band, and then again

2462
02:02:11,640 --> 02:02:14,360
Speaker 2: they jammed at the end and that did really, really well.

2463
02:02:15,560 --> 02:02:21,960
Speaker 2: And then the manager talked to Joe and said, you

2464
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:23,720
Speaker 2: know what would be great because he and I had

2465
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:25,200
Speaker 2: talked and I said, you know, it would be great

2466
02:02:25,680 --> 02:02:27,920
Speaker 2: if the two of them played together in a band.

2467
02:02:28,040 --> 02:02:30,560
Speaker 2: That would be freaking amazing. And so he talked to

2468
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:33,120
Speaker 2: Joe and they talked to Joe and Steve talk together,

2469
02:02:33,160 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 2: and so they put a band together. They actually went

2470
02:02:35,560 --> 02:02:37,600
Speaker 2: in a studio and recorded an album, which they'd never

2471
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:41,160
Speaker 2: done before. Album comes out I think in September. They're

2472
02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:43,160
Speaker 2: in Europe now doing the tour. Unfortunately, the album was

2473
02:02:43,200 --> 02:02:45,800
Speaker 2: held up because of the LA fires, but they put

2474
02:02:45,800 --> 02:02:47,920
Speaker 2: out a couple of tracks, so they're doing a tour

2475
02:02:47,960 --> 02:02:51,560
Speaker 2: in Europe. The reviews were phenomenal, the UK dates were phenomenal,

2476
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:55,560
Speaker 2: and we're planning a tour here yet next year. So

2477
02:02:56,440 --> 02:02:57,840
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to do a pitch for the tour,

2478
02:02:57,880 --> 02:02:59,800
Speaker 2: but we're planning and doing that tour here next year.

2479
02:03:00,120 --> 02:03:04,280
Speaker 2: Is called the setch V Band SVB be the first

2480
02:03:04,280 --> 02:03:06,320
Speaker 2: time that you know in America that they play in

2481
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:08,920
Speaker 2: the same band and there's a guy that sings some songs,

2482
02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:12,960
Speaker 2: so actually there'll be some vocals and it's just again

2483
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:14,880
Speaker 2: it's a new take. It's what you're asking about, what

2484
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:17,200
Speaker 2: do you do so it's a career, but you just

2485
02:03:17,320 --> 02:03:20,080
Speaker 2: change it up, you know, you keep them excited, you

2486
02:03:20,200 --> 02:03:22,040
Speaker 2: keep the audience excited. I mean, that's all part of it.

2487
02:03:22,120 --> 02:03:23,880
Speaker 2: I just got an email from Steve I today going,

2488
02:03:24,080 --> 02:03:27,160
Speaker 2: this is so exciting. I can't wait for the US dates.

2489
02:03:27,240 --> 02:03:29,360
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what I do it for.

2490
02:03:30,400 --> 02:03:35,120
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to Niedo now that COVID is over. Yeah,

2491
02:03:35,440 --> 02:03:37,560
Speaker 1: how active and what's the agenda of Needo?

2492
02:03:39,400 --> 02:03:42,720
Speaker 2: Sonito's very active. We just hired an executive director full

2493
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:47,960
Speaker 2: time starting this January. This at the end of last year,

2494
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:51,720
Speaker 2: I was elected president for this year, so I'm sort

2495
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:53,240
Speaker 2: of in the driver's seat, I guess if you want

2496
02:03:53,240 --> 02:03:54,400
Speaker 2: to call it that. But we have a board of

2497
02:03:54,440 --> 02:03:58,320
Speaker 2: directors which are probably probably half of the originals or

2498
02:03:58,360 --> 02:04:00,640
Speaker 2: a little less than half the original guy as people.

2499
02:04:01,680 --> 02:04:03,640
Speaker 2: And then we have some you know, new members that

2500
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:06,160
Speaker 2: we've had new members coming in over the years. Some

2501
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:10,080
Speaker 2: some people step down off the board, but we you know,

2502
02:04:10,120 --> 02:04:13,280
Speaker 2: we're fighting to fight on the tickets that we just

2503
02:04:13,320 --> 02:04:15,400
Speaker 2: talked about, and you know, the ticketing and the fees

2504
02:04:15,480 --> 02:04:20,560
Speaker 2: and whatever. We had a joint board meeting in Milwaukee

2505
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 2: with NEVA to see what it is they would like

2506
02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:27,800
Speaker 2: to see what they their problems, what they would hope

2507
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:31,240
Speaker 2: to have happened. We gave them some of the things

2508
02:04:31,240 --> 02:04:33,120
Speaker 2: that we think we would like to see for us,

2509
02:04:33,160 --> 02:04:35,920
Speaker 2: for our clients. Uh So it was a good two

2510
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 2: hour discussion that we had. Aside from you know, individually talking,

2511
02:04:39,600 --> 02:04:42,920
Speaker 2: that was like a sit down joint board meeting. We

2512
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:48,080
Speaker 2: had a before that they're turning over their president. They

2513
02:04:48,080 --> 02:04:50,520
Speaker 2: have a new president coming in July one. So we

2514
02:04:50,640 --> 02:04:54,760
Speaker 2: met with you know, two presidents and the executive director.

2515
02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:57,520
Speaker 2: Myself and two of the officers are our executive director

2516
02:04:57,560 --> 02:04:59,520
Speaker 2: had a baby, had a baby two and a half

2517
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:01,600
Speaker 2: weeks ago, so he couldn't make the trip. He didn't

2518
02:05:01,600 --> 02:05:02,960
Speaker 2: have a baby. He and his wife had a baby.

2519
02:05:03,160 --> 02:05:05,400
Speaker 2: They couldn't make the trip. So he couldn't make the trip.

2520
02:05:05,400 --> 02:05:07,920
Speaker 2: He didn't want to leave home for three or four days.

2521
02:05:08,440 --> 02:05:11,200
Speaker 2: Uh So we we filled in for him on that.

2522
02:05:11,320 --> 02:05:16,240
Speaker 2: In that meeting, we're you know, we are talking to

2523
02:05:16,280 --> 02:05:20,120
Speaker 2: the p ros, the performing rights organizations about I don't

2524
02:05:20,120 --> 02:05:22,000
Speaker 2: want to get into a long conversation because that could

2525
02:05:22,040 --> 02:05:24,680
Speaker 2: last another hour, but you know, basically performing rights for

2526
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:27,320
Speaker 2: people I don't realize, and the fans and audience aren't

2527
02:05:27,320 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 2: really going to care about this, but managers and artists

2528
02:05:29,320 --> 02:05:32,280
Speaker 2: care about it most of all. You know, the p

2529
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:35,640
Speaker 2: r os, four of them right now. They collect you know,

2530
02:05:36,040 --> 02:05:38,839
Speaker 2: a fee on every show in most of every venue.

2531
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:41,520
Speaker 2: Right some venues maybe they don't have a deal with yet,

2532
02:05:41,520 --> 02:05:45,240
Speaker 2: but mostly most of the venues, and that all goes

2533
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:48,080
Speaker 2: into a pool. And one of the managers are speaking

2534
02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:50,800
Speaker 2: this weekend and this week sorry I keep saying this weekend,

2535
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:53,840
Speaker 2: this week and saying that they had an artist that

2536
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:56,880
Speaker 2: agreed to So what happens is you pay the four

2537
02:05:56,920 --> 02:06:00,960
Speaker 2: performing rights organizations okay, no matter what you sing or play,

2538
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:03,880
Speaker 2: but you may only be licensed or have a deal

2539
02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:08,240
Speaker 2: with one of them. Okay, most people have with one

2540
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:10,320
Speaker 2: or two. And if you're doing a lot of cover

2541
02:06:10,440 --> 02:06:13,160
Speaker 2: songs or other people's material, it could be that they're

2542
02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:15,839
Speaker 2: all four, right, But somebody that does their own material,

2543
02:06:16,160 --> 02:06:17,960
Speaker 2: if they have a deal with BMI, it's only BMI,

2544
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:22,640
Speaker 2: not ASCA, for instance, or CSAK or GMR. So you're

2545
02:06:22,640 --> 02:06:26,480
Speaker 2: paying into a pool. And this one act said, Okay,

2546
02:06:26,640 --> 02:06:29,440
Speaker 2: I'll make a list of all the songs I'm playing

2547
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:32,400
Speaker 2: and I'll submit it so that I can get paid

2548
02:06:32,400 --> 02:06:34,360
Speaker 2: on what to perform. So he did his whole tour

2549
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:38,240
Speaker 2: and did that and on the money that was drawn

2550
02:06:38,280 --> 02:06:39,800
Speaker 2: on one of the shows. And I'm just this is

2551
02:06:39,880 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 2: third party, so I don't know this for a fact.

2552
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:44,920
Speaker 2: One of the shows that he joined, I'm not sure

2553
02:06:44,920 --> 02:06:46,600
Speaker 2: what was paid in. It could be as much as

2554
02:06:47,240 --> 02:06:48,880
Speaker 2: three to six It could be like eight hundred bucks,

2555
02:06:48,920 --> 02:06:51,440
Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty bucks. Let's say in a theater

2556
02:06:51,560 --> 02:06:55,280
Speaker 2: venue or something, you pay in it's actually a fixed

2557
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:58,600
Speaker 2: fee versus a percentage of the sales most of the time. Okay,

2558
02:06:59,080 --> 02:07:01,120
Speaker 2: so let's say seven one hundred to one thousand he

2559
02:07:01,160 --> 02:07:04,760
Speaker 2: paid in, he got twenty eight bucks. So where the

2560
02:07:04,800 --> 02:07:07,880
Speaker 2: rest of the money go. So that's what we're looking into.

2561
02:07:07,920 --> 02:07:10,600
Speaker 2: Now take that to a stadium level, and could you imagine.

2562
02:07:10,680 --> 02:07:12,680
Speaker 2: I had a conversation with an attorney for one of

2563
02:07:12,720 --> 02:07:16,960
Speaker 2: the major for a number of major stadium acts, and

2564
02:07:17,000 --> 02:07:18,480
Speaker 2: I said, hey, if you ever looked at the pros?

2565
02:07:18,520 --> 02:07:19,680
Speaker 2: And he goes, what are you talking about? I said,

2566
02:07:19,680 --> 02:07:21,160
Speaker 2: do you ever see a settlement sheet? He said no.

2567
02:07:21,240 --> 02:07:23,200
Speaker 2: I said, let me send you a copy. I got

2568
02:07:23,200 --> 02:07:24,480
Speaker 2: on the phone with him a couple of days later.

2569
02:07:24,480 --> 02:07:26,400
Speaker 2: I said, have a look at this. I said, look

2570
02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:29,000
Speaker 2: at how much it's being paid out. How much you

2571
02:07:29,120 --> 02:07:31,640
Speaker 2: get how much do you realize you realize how much

2572
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:32,760
Speaker 2: money that is on a tour if you do in

2573
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:35,320
Speaker 2: all stadiums, I'm sure you're not getting that back. And

2574
02:07:35,320 --> 02:07:37,840
Speaker 2: he was like, holy shit, that's a lot of money.

2575
02:07:37,600 --> 02:07:39,600
Speaker 2: So we're trying to deal with that. Where are we

2576
02:07:39,640 --> 02:07:41,600
Speaker 2: going to get We don't know. We're advocating, you know,

2577
02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:45,960
Speaker 2: we're advocating for tickets. We did something again the normal

2578
02:07:46,280 --> 02:07:49,200
Speaker 2: Joe's not going to care about. We negotiated a you know,

2579
02:07:49,240 --> 02:07:55,040
Speaker 2: a terms and conditions attachment for contracts with Live Nation

2580
02:07:55,200 --> 02:07:58,720
Speaker 2: individually and AEG individually, and we're working with Neva to

2581
02:07:59,080 --> 02:08:01,720
Speaker 2: get something that they could recommend to their venues so

2582
02:08:01,760 --> 02:08:05,280
Speaker 2: that instead of them getting every from every agency for

2583
02:08:05,360 --> 02:08:08,040
Speaker 2: every act, a different set of terms and conditions. That's

2584
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:11,480
Speaker 2: the add ons to the contract, like you know, no photography,

2585
02:08:11,920 --> 02:08:13,840
Speaker 2: you know, if it rains, this happens, you know, all

2586
02:08:13,880 --> 02:08:15,840
Speaker 2: the extra crap, you've got to have two million dollars

2587
02:08:15,880 --> 02:08:18,080
Speaker 2: in insurance, you know all that stuff. We're trying to

2588
02:08:18,120 --> 02:08:20,040
Speaker 2: pre negotiate all that so you can just do your

2589
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:23,360
Speaker 2: basic contract, attach it which has already approved, send it,

2590
02:08:23,520 --> 02:08:27,000
Speaker 2: no argument. We all agreed it already, so we're trying

2591
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:29,440
Speaker 2: to do that just to make the whole process of

2592
02:08:29,480 --> 02:08:33,000
Speaker 2: the contracting a lot easier and less tense and argumentative.

2593
02:08:33,080 --> 02:08:35,160
Speaker 2: So there's that that doesn't seem like a lot, but

2594
02:08:35,600 --> 02:08:39,440
Speaker 2: it is for a day to day scenario. We're you know,

2595
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:44,120
Speaker 2: we negotiated an insurance policy for the younger acts to

2596
02:08:44,160 --> 02:08:47,720
Speaker 2: have a you know that need bottom line insurance for

2597
02:08:47,840 --> 02:08:51,040
Speaker 2: touring that can't afford a lot of insurance. So we

2598
02:08:51,120 --> 02:08:55,360
Speaker 2: negotiated with an organization needle members get a discount, and

2599
02:08:55,680 --> 02:08:58,280
Speaker 2: there's like a low level for the band starting out

2600
02:08:58,320 --> 02:09:00,600
Speaker 2: to make sure their equipment's covered. You know, they've got

2601
02:09:00,880 --> 02:09:03,400
Speaker 2: you know, you know, liability like that kind of stuff.

2602
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:07,000
Speaker 2: So so we've negotiated that. At one point, we we know,

2603
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:11,920
Speaker 2: we negotiate, sorry, we negotiated with Peter when Peter was

2604
02:09:11,920 --> 02:09:15,839
Speaker 2: still at a hub. We negotiated a festival and outdoor

2605
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:20,480
Speaker 2: show weather contract or or deal for neat lower level

2606
02:09:20,560 --> 02:09:23,800
Speaker 2: Needo acts, right, they can't afford you know, not what

2607
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:27,600
Speaker 2: do you call it weather insurance? Right, cancelation insurance. So

2608
02:09:27,600 --> 02:09:29,200
Speaker 2: so we you know, we did that. So some of

2609
02:09:29,200 --> 02:09:31,360
Speaker 2: the stuff we're doing is kind of boring and mundane

2610
02:09:31,440 --> 02:09:33,800
Speaker 2: to everybody else, but it's you know, it's for our members.

2611
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:38,160
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's other things, uh, that we've been

2612
02:09:38,160 --> 02:09:40,320
Speaker 2: working on. You know, the ticketing things is a really

2613
02:09:40,320 --> 02:09:42,280
Speaker 2: big one because we've been involved in Maryland, we were

2614
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:44,840
Speaker 2: involved in Maine, we were involved in New York State,

2615
02:09:45,080 --> 02:09:48,640
Speaker 2: We're involved in California. You know, we're involved in in

2616
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:51,320
Speaker 2: a lot of different states because really at state by

2617
02:09:51,320 --> 02:09:54,520
Speaker 2: state over here, and and then there's things that that

2618
02:09:54,640 --> 02:09:56,880
Speaker 2: come up that you know, that that members say they

2619
02:09:56,880 --> 02:09:59,040
Speaker 2: need that we you know that we get involved with.

2620
02:10:00,040 --> 02:10:02,920
Speaker 2: So that's what we're here for. We do we run

2621
02:10:04,080 --> 02:10:07,800
Speaker 2: we're starting to run weekly, sorry not weekly, monthly webinars

2622
02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:09,720
Speaker 2: indoor town halls. So we used to do them once

2623
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:11,920
Speaker 2: in a while. We do zooms for our members, so

2624
02:10:11,960 --> 02:10:13,920
Speaker 2: we've been this year we decided to get you know,

2625
02:10:14,000 --> 02:10:15,680
Speaker 2: serious about it, so we're doing one. So we did

2626
02:10:15,720 --> 02:10:19,360
Speaker 2: one on marketing and PR where we brought marketing people

2627
02:10:19,400 --> 02:10:22,760
Speaker 2: in and PR people you know, from a couple of firms,

2628
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:25,920
Speaker 2: from a couple of promoters, independent marketers to do with

2629
02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:28,720
Speaker 2: session for members that wanted to to discuss marketing and

2630
02:10:29,480 --> 02:10:35,240
Speaker 2: public relations. We did one on visas Carnes and something else.

2631
02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:38,520
Speaker 2: There was like three topics on it. Boring for most people,

2632
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:42,400
Speaker 2: but for people, especially managers that are touring, they need

2633
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:44,200
Speaker 2: to know about that stuff. They need to know what

2634
02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:46,840
Speaker 2: their options are, what their issues, what the issues are.

2635
02:10:47,120 --> 02:10:49,320
Speaker 2: You know, country by country you can change, especially now

2636
02:10:49,360 --> 02:10:51,320
Speaker 2: that you know the UK is not in the EU anymore.

2637
02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:53,000
Speaker 2: It was easy to get from you know, the UK

2638
02:10:53,080 --> 02:10:55,680
Speaker 2: into Europe and tour, but now that they're not part

2639
02:10:55,680 --> 02:10:57,400
Speaker 2: of the EU, there's a whole thing of the trucking

2640
02:10:57,520 --> 02:10:59,640
Speaker 2: go in and out of the UK back to Europe.

2641
02:11:00,520 --> 02:11:03,640
Speaker 2: Things that you know, most people generally don't know about.

2642
02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:06,400
Speaker 2: We did what we're going to We did one on

2643
02:11:06,920 --> 02:11:09,680
Speaker 2: mental health on the road the other day, which was

2644
02:11:09,720 --> 02:11:11,040
Speaker 2: a really good one. We had a lot of people

2645
02:11:11,040 --> 02:11:14,760
Speaker 2: attend that one, and that's important because that's happening. Issues

2646
02:11:14,760 --> 02:11:16,600
Speaker 2: are happening more and more, you know, when you're out

2647
02:11:16,600 --> 02:11:20,040
Speaker 2: on the road, especially for these crew people right there.

2648
02:11:20,680 --> 02:11:23,000
Speaker 2: So an artist goes on the road for you know what,

2649
02:11:23,600 --> 02:11:27,480
Speaker 2: sixty or eighty days, maybe ninety days. Maybe maybe it's

2650
02:11:27,520 --> 02:11:29,560
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty, you know, but not that many shows,

2651
02:11:29,560 --> 02:11:31,640
Speaker 2: but maybe it's over a period. Some of these crew

2652
02:11:31,680 --> 02:11:34,680
Speaker 2: guys are working all year long and they don't think

2653
02:11:34,720 --> 02:11:37,760
Speaker 2: about it. The burnout rates really high mentally I'm talking

2654
02:11:37,800 --> 02:11:41,120
Speaker 2: about physically also, so you know, there are a lot

2655
02:11:41,160 --> 02:11:42,640
Speaker 2: of issues. So we're just trying to we're trying to

2656
02:11:42,640 --> 02:11:44,920
Speaker 2: help with that, so you know, those are the kinds

2657
02:11:44,920 --> 02:11:45,560
Speaker 2: of things that we do.

2658
02:11:46,240 --> 02:11:51,200
Speaker 1: Okay, Finally, why should someone hire you as an agent

2659
02:11:51,400 --> 02:11:56,280
Speaker 1: as opposed to anybody else? And implicit in that question

2660
02:11:56,440 --> 02:11:59,960
Speaker 1: is to what degree should acts hire and independent age

2661
02:12:00,720 --> 02:12:03,960
Speaker 1: as opposed to one of these corporate own full sort

2662
02:12:03,960 --> 02:12:05,000
Speaker 1: of agencies.

2663
02:12:07,280 --> 02:12:10,680
Speaker 2: I'll just say this to the on the immediately to

2664
02:12:10,920 --> 02:12:12,800
Speaker 2: get it out of the way before I actually say

2665
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:15,800
Speaker 2: why they should hire me personally, it really depends on

2666
02:12:15,840 --> 02:12:17,760
Speaker 2: what an acts looking for. If they want to be

2667
02:12:17,760 --> 02:12:20,760
Speaker 2: a TV film star, I'm not the place to come, Okay.

2668
02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:24,400
Speaker 2: I doubt whether the regular Joe act is going to

2669
02:12:24,440 --> 02:12:26,560
Speaker 2: be a film or TV store. Anyway, it's a great pitch.

2670
02:12:26,840 --> 02:12:28,400
Speaker 2: I've had a couple of acts over the years that

2671
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:30,200
Speaker 2: left me because they thought they were going to get

2672
02:12:30,200 --> 02:12:32,280
Speaker 2: a film score or they were going to be in

2673
02:12:32,320 --> 02:12:34,800
Speaker 2: a movie or a TV thing. And I'm still waiting

2674
02:12:34,840 --> 02:12:37,280
Speaker 2: to see and hear all of the above. Okay, So

2675
02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:40,320
Speaker 2: that's number one. It depends on what you want. If

2676
02:12:40,360 --> 02:12:42,560
Speaker 2: you want somebody that's going to help you and give

2677
02:12:42,600 --> 02:12:45,440
Speaker 2: good advice, if you want somebody that's gonna really care,

2678
02:12:45,960 --> 02:12:47,400
Speaker 2: and if you're gonna want somebody and I hate to

2679
02:12:47,400 --> 02:12:50,320
Speaker 2: say this because my daughters think I'm I'm crazy and

2680
02:12:50,320 --> 02:12:52,080
Speaker 2: I should get out of business already, is if you

2681
02:12:52,120 --> 02:12:54,440
Speaker 2: want somebody that's gonna lose sleep over your fricking tour

2682
02:12:55,320 --> 02:12:58,280
Speaker 2: and literally wake up at five o'clock in the morning

2683
02:12:58,600 --> 02:13:01,360
Speaker 2: with an idea that they think is going to help

2684
02:13:01,480 --> 02:13:05,280
Speaker 2: you do something different that will help your career, or

2685
02:13:05,320 --> 02:13:08,280
Speaker 2: an idea. I've actually texted you know, promoters at six

2686
02:13:08,320 --> 02:13:10,600
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning when I came up with something

2687
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:12,160
Speaker 2: to save a date that I thought was going to

2688
02:13:12,240 --> 02:13:17,240
Speaker 2: go down. And you want some good advice on like

2689
02:13:17,360 --> 02:13:22,320
Speaker 2: building and maintaining your career, I'm the guy, but I'm again,

2690
02:13:22,360 --> 02:13:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm not for everybody. I say what I mean Sometimes

2691
02:13:27,520 --> 02:13:32,240
Speaker 2: I shouldn't, but I do. I'm basically honest as far

2692
02:13:32,280 --> 02:13:34,840
Speaker 2: as and I don't mean in a financial way. I'm

2693
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:36,960
Speaker 2: talking about in a conversational way. I may say things

2694
02:13:36,960 --> 02:13:40,800
Speaker 2: that will end up costing me the relation, the representation,

2695
02:13:40,920 --> 02:13:42,720
Speaker 2: but I'm going to say what I mean, because if

2696
02:13:42,720 --> 02:13:46,040
Speaker 2: somebody is dreaming, I'm going to tell them that you're dreaming.

2697
02:13:46,480 --> 02:13:48,440
Speaker 2: I hope you achieve it, but I don't think you will.

2698
02:13:48,760 --> 02:13:50,040
Speaker 2: I think you got to. You know. Sometimes it's like

2699
02:13:50,080 --> 02:13:51,720
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna get here. Yeah,

2700
02:13:51,760 --> 02:13:53,880
Speaker 2: there's a lot of steps to get there. You're not

2701
02:13:53,960 --> 02:13:55,840
Speaker 2: just getting there. You got to do all this first.

2702
02:13:57,440 --> 02:14:00,000
Speaker 2: And you know, I like to take care of details.

2703
02:14:00,120 --> 02:14:03,560
Speaker 2: I'm a detail oriented guy for everyone else, not for myself.

2704
02:14:04,960 --> 02:14:08,400
Speaker 1: Okay, Wayne, a lot of information here. I'm glad we

2705
02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:10,839
Speaker 1: covered what Nita was doing, a lot of important stuff.

2706
02:14:11,480 --> 02:14:13,440
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for taking this time to

2707
02:14:13,480 --> 02:14:14,560
Speaker 1: talk with my audience.

2708
02:14:15,600 --> 02:14:18,120
Speaker 2: You're welcome, Bob anytime. I appreciate it. Thank you for

2709
02:14:18,160 --> 02:14:18,480
Speaker 2: the time.

2710
02:14:18,560 --> 02:14:20,920
Speaker 1: Okay, we still didn't cover David Bowie in all the

2711
02:14:20,960 --> 02:14:22,320
Speaker 1: Old Days at another time.

2712
02:14:23,000 --> 02:14:24,400
Speaker 2: Well, we should come back to that because I have

2713
02:14:24,440 --> 02:14:26,680
Speaker 2: some good stories. If you want to do a story, okay.

2714
02:14:26,520 --> 02:14:31,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Until next time. This is Bob left six