WEBVTT - Ep. 096: Permissions! 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:18.360 severely bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:29.920 can't predict anything. Mason's first callahan, Um, yes, sir, do 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.560 a uh act like go all a sudden died. Okay, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.319 Like I'm just like all of a sudden fall over 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.519 dead and here we are, um, and you realize you 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.320 need to pick up the show, okay, like you're in 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.960 the driver's seat, all right, and you know that the 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:47.440 first thing that needs to happen is you need to 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.440 do a thing where where you where you insult the 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.400 listener and and tell them that they need to go 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.920 and do the subscribe, you know, make sure there's sub 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.920 subscribed to the podcast, not just downloading individual episodes, and 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.560 then and then maybe insult them a little more and 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.880 then tell them how they need to also give it 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.560 a good rating. Um, alright, so I'm just like that, 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.880 Oh my god, Ryan Steve's down all right, listen up, folks. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:25.400 As you know, we've recently lost Steve. But let's be honest, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.520 he probably piste off half of you anyway. So what 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.080 I'm gonna need you to do is go onto iTunes, subscribe, 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.320 hit the furthest right star so we can keep this 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.880 ball or rolling that good. Mark, you tried, that was 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:41.840 very good. I don't think I can. I don't think 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.600 I can speak to that at all. Mark can. You 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.360 can't do any better than that. No, And I'm a 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.640 podcaster myself, and I feel like I got showed up. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.240 That was good. That makes me feel good. Before I 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.000 did it where I was gonna die and Yanni had 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.400 to take over and just did not do like he 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.840 just I think because it wasn't convincing, like I didn't 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.480 really seem dead enough to him. I thought he had 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:02.600 a very authentic little chime in there when he said, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:06.160 oh my gosh, Steve down, that was a good contribution. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.160 That's what that was, like the dish to Ryan that 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.120 really set him up. Yeah, it made him feel like 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:17.320 I was kind of thinking about the house. Oh absolutely, Uh, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.359 Mark Kenyon got a quick question for you from a 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.520 dude that wrote in named Danny, not my brother, not 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.160 my brother Danny. I've been saving this one for you 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:26.760 because this is like right up in your this is 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.680 in your little white tail. Dear world. Ready, I'm ready. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.399 Then we'll get into permissions. You know, I can't even 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.320 never listened to that song, I know, and I really 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.480 I promised myself. I was like, I'm gonna listen to 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.120 that before I go out there again. And well I'm 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.400 singing permissions to the tune of traditions Shiddler around the roof. 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.840 The we're just talking about over lunch is um Yanni. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.600 We're talking about Hubris in Greek tragedy. Yes, yeah, Hubris 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.040 is uh excessive pride, and the Greek tragedy that's it's 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:06.000 usually like what gets you trouble. His excessive pride happens 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.400 an animated cartoon to the Hercules. So but you know, 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.840 I think about that, like I remember learning that that 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.079 in the Hubris is like the trouble of Greek tragedy. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.920 But then I think of the one at like Oedipus. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:27.119 Oedipus doesn't know that he's like the story begins where 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:31.200 he's adopted but doesn't know he's adopted, and he goes 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:36.040 to like a seer, like a like a basically a 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.600 fortune teller, and the fortune tellers says like, oh, I 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.080 see your future bright and clear. You're gonna murder your 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.640 dad and have sex with your ma. But he doesn't 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:52.520 always adopted, So he splits down purposely to avoid that. 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:58.960 Fath runs away and stumbles into a new town where 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.080 he kills a feller and has a sex little lady. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:08.600 And guess who they were Yep, his mom pa. But 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.200 I just don't see. I gotta go, like re look 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.000 at that and find out where that fits in with 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.960 the Hubris because that just seems like bad luck. Yeah, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.039 I didn't know that that. The overconference bit was every 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.920 Greek tragedy. I remember Sharon white Hill. When I was 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.400 in college, I took a class on Greek tragedy with 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.279 Professor Sharon white Hill, whose husband was a beekeeper. I 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.680 did a little uh day labor and for him moving 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.120 the bees around. So Mark, here's your question. Is this 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.200 related to No, not at all Greek tragedies, says I 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.160 was just saying about the conversation at lunch, and I 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.720 keep running around in my head like the only Greek 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.880 tragedy I remember doesn't seem to have a hubrist element. 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.000 But that's where in that same story about Oedipus, the 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.240 edible complex right that you want to have, you want 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.200 to make love to your ma um. In that same 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.960 story is where he comes to that city and the 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:01.400 thing that the monster tells the riddle, what walks on 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:06.800 four legs in the morning, two legs during the day, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.360 and three legs in the evening. And if you don't 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.880 get it, like it kills you. But he gets it. 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.240 It's man, that you crawl in the morning of your 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.039 life and then you walk on two legs and then 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.800 in the end you use a cane. I like it. 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.160 And that's how he gets into the town to to 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:33.960 you know, do the unmentionable the unspeakable. All right, this 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.240 guy says, Hey, I've been bow hunting for white tails 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.440 over the last month on public land in Texas. You 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.039 follow him, follow in the Sam Houston National Force. You 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:50.320 know where Sam Houston was killed. Mark oh Man. That 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:56.840 was my best guess. Um. You know, Uh, there's like 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.640 a school thought that Davy Crockett didn't actually that Davy 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.360 Crockett surrendered. There's a theory based on some like uh 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.200 personal accounts that came out of the Mexican Army, that 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.800 Davy Crockett didn't fall at the Alamo heroically, that he 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.840 surrendered and was executed. I read some stuff and I 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.440 think it was The Lines of the West was a 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.560 book I read by the Robert. Yeah, and I think 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.120 they talked a little bit about how some of the 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:28.160 mythology around Crockett isn't quite everything that it was chocked up. Yeah, 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.720 it's a real shame that people think of Davy Crockett 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.960 and Daniel Boone not the same kind of guy. So 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.000 the reason I bring it up, he's hunting the Sam 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.200 Houston National Force public lands for white tails, and he says, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.640 I've been sitting in a tree stand under a few 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.200 oak trees where I see you plenty of sign but 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.440 no actual animals. The last day I went out, I 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.160 started wander around a bit, figuring if they won't come 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.280 to me, I'll go to them. Picturing it so far 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.719 country of Texas, somewhere like that, up a few dolls, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.880 but never got a good look for a shot. I'm 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:04.880 my way back to the truck I turned. I took 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.640 the dirt road as the understory of the forest can 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.720 be thick. That's when I see the most dear and 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.560 it's them crossing the road, noticing me, and then bounding 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.160 right back into the thick stuff, never to be seen again. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.400 Any suggestions on how I can get in front of 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.520 these animals, I want to continue to hunt with a 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.280 bowl right through gun season, which starts November four. Well, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.480 we're a little late. Well I know if I've been 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.000 saving it to talk to you about it. Yeah, my 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.040 feeling is he should not be he needs to stay 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.080 up in a tree. So it's yeah, does he walk 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:38.960 around or does he stay in a tree if he's 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.400 just hunting with a bow. Yeah, it's pretty tough in 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.360 a situation like that to stock up on one in 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.160 flat country in the thick area like that. I mean, 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.680 it's yeah, it's one. That's one thing if you're up 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.600 in you know, some bad lands type habitat or like 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.920 I don't know, eastern Montana, or there's some rolling grassy 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:00.840 hills and you can get up on one top, look 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.080 over the edge and make a sneak on one. But 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.840 it's really hard to do and even like the Midwest 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.160 in the flat areas, let alone as thick and nasty. 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.240 Is that because I imagine a lot of Texas could be, 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.040 at least from the things I've seen. But there's definitely 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.240 guys that do it. But I feel like inefficient and 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.280 you're doing it more just because you want to go 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.400 through the exercise of still hunting and you know, possibly 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.200 catch you know, crossing paths with that deer at you're 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.920 doing it as a as a thing, like a goal 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.119 you set off for yourself just to do that. Yeah, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.560 nothing wrong with that, but I think that's what he's getting, 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.120 you know, Yeah, he's just trying to kill a deer. 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:36.959 What I might say, though, is did he say he's 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:42.719 been hunting a month already? Month straight? Chick? Let me check. Um, Well, 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:44.680 let's just assume he said he's been hunting for the 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.599 last month. Okay, he's hunting over the last month. He 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:49.600 sees him on the road, and so it sounds like 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:54.920 maybe he's um, relatively novice will assumption um, if that's 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.480 the case. I feel like a lot of people, newer hunters, 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.360 newer white tail hunters, they find a spot that looks good, 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:01.760 like an oak tree, and they're like, all right, this 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:03.800 is what I've heard is good, this is where I 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.920 should be, and they hunt it today and then tomorrow, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.000 and then hunt the next day, and they hunt it 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.080 over and over and over and over again. And I 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.560 think a lot of newcomers end up trying that and 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.800 then not seeing many deer. Maybe the first day they 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:18.640 saw five does or something like all right, this is 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.520 it great and the next day they say three, and 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.280 a week later they say too. And UM. So my 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.120 first recommendation, knowing very little about the situation, UM, I 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.840 would say, Okay, let's assume maybe he's been hunting this 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.880 one oak tree many, many, many times. I would say, 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.880 first tip raf the bat is switch it up. Hunt 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.520 totally different places than where you have simply because of that. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.840 You gotta you gotta make sure that you are not 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:48.200 educating the deer. He has most likely try new areas 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.800 simply because you can catch them off guard. Um, that's 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.440 a good starting point. If you can find other oak 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.559 trees away from where he's been, that might be another 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.199 place to start, or water other things that might draw 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.680 on those deer. But we don't a whole lot about 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.160 a situation. We had to go down there and check 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.800 it out. I want to. I would like to betting 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.040 area too. I think he should maybe walk around and 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.319 look for that. I feel like in Texas. It's so 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:12.840 I've never hunted in Texas, so I don't know, but 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.960 from guys I've talked to down there, it's just very 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:18.559 very different than a lot of the very defined habitat 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.560 types like I encounter where I hunt in the Midwest 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.959 or even in some places in the Rocky Mountain West 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.080 where have whitetail hunted, where you can easily determine, Okay, 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.760 this is a betting area, this is a feeding area, 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.400 This is likely where they moved through in some of 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.800 these kind of brushy Texas areas. And I know there's 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.240 very diverse habitat types of Texas, so this might not 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.400 be what he's dealing with at all, um, But in 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:43.720 a lot of these it's just a brushy, thorny, dry jungle. That's, 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.320 you know, a homogeneous habitat type. That's really tough to 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.520 figure out where those focus points are. Yeah, which is 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.160 why guys hunting that country on private land are all 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.840 they're all running bait, you know. Another gives you something 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:03.680 to gives you some point to focus on. Yeah. Another 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.480 thing that a lot of guys do in Texas, more 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.280 so than more so than where I don't at least 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.920 is rattling. Now, it might be different in public land 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.480 if it's really heavily hunted down there. I don't know 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.720 what it's like there, but if it's not too bad, 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.600 rattling seems to work at a disproportionately high rate in Texas, 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.320 like off the charts compared to anywhere else. Our buddy 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.880 in South Carolina, Robert Abernathy, they have fantastic luck rattling 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:31.480 up bucks and the swamps in South Carolina. Callahan may 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.680 or may not have rattled up a mulder this year, 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:41.000 that's true. I think indicators would be that, yes, like 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.280 there's too many odds, like the deer which shouldn't have 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.880 done what he did, so I feel like the rattling 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.600 is what ultimately led to his demise. But you definitely 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.480 don't hear about rattling muld here people that don't know 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:58.040 what we're talking about. Uh. Ratling. Rattling is when you 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.880 take a pair of antlers or something that sounds like 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:05.440 antlers and make the simulate the noise of two bucks 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:10.200 sparring or fighting, and other bucks will just in there. 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.400 They're interested in, you know, her dynamics and who's doing 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.000 what and who's a big man around town. They'll come 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.520 running up out of curiosity, right Mark, more than it's 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.000 to join the fight. I think it depends on the deer. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.320 Sometimes you'll see a lot of the younger bucks that 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.280 come running and curiosity but then you do get those, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:31.920 at least in the white tail side of things. You 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.840 get these big mature bucks if you have one in 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.320 the area that will come in looking it kicks mass 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.920 really like he comes in like in in and not 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.679 just trying to look from way off like fired up 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.880 to the tree. It's crazy how sometimes these deer can 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.120 pinpoint and literally be right underneath your tree looking around 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.920 where is he at? And that's why I like, I 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.360 feel like that the deer that I saw that morning, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.000 they were moving hard to make it in the picture, 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.240 but said right to left down this ridge. I'm on 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.200 a spur ridge that down low where I can see 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:12.920 this this ridge, and you know, rattled for probably twenty minutes, um, 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:18.960 you know, short sequences, and and moved tan yards straight 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.040 up my spur ridge. And here's this set of legs 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:27.240 on my ridge pointing downwards straight to me, and I 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.960 can see through the brush that you know, here's this 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:36.800 old face, heavy horned deer of some unknown size just 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:42.440 staring my direction. I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.720 have moved, and you want to blouch in him though 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.800 I did he actually so he ultimately did take off 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.520 and followed the direction of the deer that I'd seen 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:59.480 earlier in the day and and I moved to get 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.079 a better van manage point of that area. And Doug 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.200 the uh funding pirt about this to me? Anyways? They're nice, 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:15.440 is uh pack uh pack pack Iraq Ratlin told him 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.480 this story. The first thing he said was, I wonder 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:22.800 if that's my pack ire it is. In fact, you 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:24.560 guys are arguing about this. I thought you'd arguing about 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:29.920 a pack raft, no pack rack. I thought you had 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:34.040 his pack raft no sorry e contraption, which made me 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:40.800 wonder why he was being sold, like like that's cool. Yeah, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.720 uh so Doug, and the whole morning is making so 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:49.120 much more sense now. And I mean I had my 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.960 rifles set up on my bag crack that thing like 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.800 one too three and looked up and he had marched 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:04.200 seven yards out of the remember for no reason. I 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:10.320 mean he was free and easy, so um and boom 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:15.880 yeah yeah so uh. And we've had some some kind 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.920 of similar scenarios where we don't know definitively with with 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:24.800 the Muley's, but all signs point to yes, they definitely 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.600 fight all the time. Why would they not be interesting 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.520 to him? But because you could be like, Oh, I 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.760 don't know, I'm gonna go see if rattling white tails works. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.960 If you don't know what you're doing and you just 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.760 went up saying a treat, you said tree thirty times 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.360 clacking antlers together, and nothing's gonna show up, and you'd 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.400 be like, it doesn't work. So it might just be 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.800 that people don't do it with those because it hasn't 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.240 been done. Now, Yanni, have you ever I don't want 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.800 to spend too much time time about this, but have 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.800 you ever heard of someone like clacking elk antlers together, 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:59.280 like rattling for elk? Because people thrash brush for elk? Sure, 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.480 I've heard I've heard it. I've heard people doing it 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.280 by accident because they found like a set of sheds 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.520 and then like a bull comes screaming by, so they 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.440 obviously rattled him in. But I've never heard of someone packing. 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:18.480 Can you don't need to just packed a little packed? 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:24.760 The pack rack? Yeah, pack rack looks like um, but 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.320 if this crack is not gonna sound like to six 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.200 point bulls going at it? You've ever heard that in 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:37.920 the woods Man? A different cadence deep? Yeah, and then 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.520 the hoof sounds that you hear with it and just 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.840 the thrashing. I mean, I don't even know if one 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.760 man alone, you'd be lathered in a sweat if you 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.400 were actually trying to like replicate that sound like it 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.200 might just be impossible to make it. I would like 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.280 to let everybody know that Joanna can't expect a nice 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.040 little Christmas present with little juice in there, because I've 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.760 had the pack rack for so long, uh, you know, 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.320 hopefully hopefully before Christmas, because we're going to Mexico in 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.520 January for cuz here I'd like to add it with 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.040 me there because you are not getting yours back from 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:18.399 keeping u um, you know real quick. I do not 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:24.160 wonder if maybe the story of Oedipus isn't Greek tragedy. Well, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.000 I just don't think the assumption is hubrious is everything 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.639 wouldn't like the thin doesn't Maybe the the that story 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.080 doesn't count as Greek tragedy. Maybe it's just mythology and 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:41.480 not Greek tragedy. But the point is, Um, I think 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.399 that the biggest I think the biggest hurdle people have 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.880 when they wanted, the biggest hurdle that people who are 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.200 wanting to get into hunting or who have been introduced 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.240 to hunting and want to continue to do it. The 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:57.200 biggest hurdle they have is the spot to hunt. Absolutely, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.000 people are like, oh kids these days, they just wanna 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.760 play video games, like like, yeah, a lot of them do. 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.680 But I think that the people who the people that 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.200 I have met who have been introduced to hunting, later 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:12.760 when you go like hey man, what's up you've been 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.960 getting out? Their thing is usually like no, it's not 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:21.160 a place to go, right. People don't live in place 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:22.960 where you have a ton of access to public land. 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.840 It's a pain and an ass to get permissions. It's 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.480 the number one throughout the new hunter recruitment and and 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:40.000 fisherman and the world's changed. Um the advent of pay 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:44.520 to play on private land has really changed things where 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.919 a lot of people that you you should just let guys 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:51.120 come hunt, no want to charge money to come hunt. 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.520 A dear dear friend of mine recently went to that model. Um, 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.399 So for for some of the year, old point out, 0:18:58.400 --> 0:18:59.720 he'll be mad that I brought that up. For some 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.640 of the or he went to that model that has 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.560 restricted use. I think that there's a thing where we 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.480 live in I don't know if we live in a 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:15.000 more litigious society, but there's at least the perception that 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.160 we do. And so there's a reluctance on the part 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.960 of landowners to allow people to come on their land 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.480 because they feel like they're gonna get sued when the 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:27.840 guy twists his ankle. Um, that's the thing that has changed. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.160 What else is changed, Mark, I mean, if you look 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.399 at the bare bone, it's just a supply and demand issue. 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.040 Right to your point, it's harder and harder to find 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:39.639 places to hunt. And now landowners to what you just 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.560 said there, they're finding that, um, there's value to their 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.119 land that may they may not be using otherwise. So 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.520 we're seeing some people that in the past just let 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:50.840 guys go hunt whatever, and all of a sudden they 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.720 find out, oh, Bob down the street got five grand 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.160 a year to let so and so hunt their place. 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.000 So so you do have that pay to play model increasing. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.879 And then and another thing going on is that I 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.119 think I think it's fair to say that the level 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.040 of intensity maybe or further that the hunt that some 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.440 segment of the hunting population has now has increased pretty 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.480 substantially over the last decade or two. That most serious, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.520 if we're talking white tails as most serious white tail guys. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.840 So they're investing in things related to hunting. A huge 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.159 part of that is land ownership. So I saw that 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.080 since eleven, private land ownership for hunting has gone up, 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:33.440 so more and more people want to own land, so 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:37.080 that for the purpose hunting. So then that leaves all 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.240 the other people that don't own land, Well, then now 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:43.200 they've lost even more potential places where they could go. Um. 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:49.240 Urban sprawl changing um thoughts on hunting. So areas where 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:51.960 the population used to be fine with guys hunting behind 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:53.760 the house, Maybe these people just don't want anyone out 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:55.600 there with a gun or they're not okay with hunting. 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.520 So that kind of thing is happening in some urban areas. 0:20:58.040 --> 0:20:59.600 So there's a lot of different pressures. I think that 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:02.680 there's get tougher for the average guy or galda, get 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:06.760 us about to go, especially if they're not out west, UM, 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.439 Midwest and the East. I think it's something in private 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.119 land ownership. So there's just not a whole lot of 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.360 public land or places together these days. And it might 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.199 I realize it might even be like a matter of 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:22.040 perception too. They're just seems like it's different now when 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.200 it's actually not. And it might just be that people 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:28.520 who I would kind of bet this that the people 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.919 who it's important too and really work at it and 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.320 are smart about it still can go out and have 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.680 the same level of success in getting permissions of places 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.600 to hunt on private land. They can still have the 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.480 same success that everyone had before. MH. But it might 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.359 just be that when you're getting into it and you 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.600 don't realize how much work it is, it seems like 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.159 more daunting or less realistic than it is. Well, I 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.520 think it's I think it's the work aspect. I think 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:57.919 it's harder work to be able to get that access 0:21:57.920 --> 0:21:59.760 in those places. I think it's still be done the 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:01.680 po to take it seriously and are willing to put 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.240 in the work. Absolutely, they can have lots of places. 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.800 But for the average person who's either just getting started 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.240 or who's kind of lukewarm on it, who wants to hunt, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.440 but they don't really want to devote a whole lot 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.600 of their time in a given year defining places. That's 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:17.719 the seconda. I think that suffers a lot well than 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:22.280 working for permissions. The good friend of mine he is, 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:28.160 I mean, he's changing irrigation pipe. He's you know, neighbor calls. 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.280 He's like, hey, we gotta move cattle. We you know, 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:34.600 we're build a new fence. And he's you know, almost 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:38.719 sixty and retired. But it's his full time job, like 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:43.240 maintaining his bird hunting permissions and his trespassing access and 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.000 things like that. But he's not necessarily paying for it. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.399 He's putting in sweat equity. Right, I was trying to 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.960 get I want to have Jimmy dorn Um of Bell 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.560 Tom Pizza down here, and he said he can't because 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.600 he's traveled right now. And I was saying, yeah, it's like, oh, 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.600 it's a bummy jim bummer. Jimmy dorn can't come. But 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:07.960 he's not really gonna have that much to add anyways, 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.479 because he hunts a buddy's place who hangs out at 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.040 his bar, and he hunts a guy's place who he 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:17.359 harvest wheat for. And you know he's like, yeah, exactly, 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:24.639 meaning that's permissions. I feel it's sort of like, in 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:30.480 large measure, comes down to working your connections. Oh yeah, 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:34.880 more than cold rolling, because like when I I want 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:36.120 to lay out, so like when I was a kid, 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.640 out the permissions that we had. We did. We hunted 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:40.800 on we had a lot of public land around us, 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.560 but we also hunted on some private farms, and we 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.840 hunted on private farms of farmers that went to church 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:52.560 my parents. So there's like a very strong community connection 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.240 where you see these people every week and they're in 0:23:56.240 --> 0:24:00.359 your social circle. But I had trapping. I may attained 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:11.120 trapping permissions on about twenty farms in Mouskeegon County, Diego County, 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:16.159 Manistee County. Um, what's the county big rabbids is in? 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:20.800 Mm hmmm, I don't know. Maccosta County. That's what it is. 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.600 Permissions over place, and I would make I would go 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:26.879 on a PLAT book. This is pre like on X 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.480 and whatnot. I'd go on a PLAT map and just 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:31.840 find every place I wanted to have a permission on it, 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.480 how to write it down in a let yellow legal pad. 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:41.240 And my old man would just tirelessly work the phones, calling, calling, calling, 0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:45.840 until he could find a personal connection to those people 0:24:46.240 --> 0:24:50.920 through a mutual friend or somehow would develop an end 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.359 because he felt your odds increase so greatly if you 0:24:55.400 --> 0:24:58.919 could find that connection. I know so and so so 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:00.520 my old man would like, Oh, i' know a guy 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:05.080 up there, an insurance salesman up in Macosta, and he 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.560 called him and be like, hey, you know, we're my 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:10.160 son's looking at these places. He's trying to get on right. 0:25:11.520 --> 0:25:14.600 He would work at work and he would score. He 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:17.320 had a very high success rate on scoring permissions. I 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:19.360 remember at the same time, I went and ran an 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.919 ad in a newspaper Macosta County because I was just 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.400 trapping beaver and a lot of people hate beavers because 0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.480 beavers plug up your creeks and dams and ditches and whatnot, 0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.840 and so some people love them, some people hate him. 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:35.040 I ran an ad in the Macosta newspaper saying, free 0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:40.679 beaver control, free problem beaver removal. Never got a hit 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.000 off that ad, but my old man would tear it 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:48.200 up by trying to build personal connections. And yeah, you 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:50.520 think about when we were on Sandhill Crane's on the Panhandle. 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:54.320 How long would it take that dude to get a 0:25:54.320 --> 0:26:00.639 permission on land? Anyone within a hundred miles dependent. I 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:02.960 don't think anyone were too too fast, but it didn't 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:06.119 take more than half a day. He would work and 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:08.880 he wasn't from there. He is this is a grad student. 0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:15.080 It's like a grad student who moved to do a 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:17.960 PhD program the Texas Panhandle. Where was he just from 0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:22.919 the Midwest or something nasty for Nancy? Yeah? Yeah, he 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:26.160 had his pitch dialed, you know, he had his end 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.880 sort of just to get the conversation rolling and then 0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:31.760 you know he explained everything and yeah, and he wasn't 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:33.840 working family, but he was just sort of like had 0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:37.399 some in like had good relationships with some farmers. Was 0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:39.040 able to build on that and be like, Oh I 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.680 hunt on so and sols place. That's always a good 0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:46.320 You call him up, he'll give you the word. He 0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:48.320 had to work extra hard when we were there because 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.560 not only did he have to get permission, but when 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:53.879 we're there filming, you gotta also get the landowner to 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:57.040 sign the location release so that we can film there. 0:26:57.760 --> 0:27:02.720 Another thing that he thought was very effective is what 0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:06.000 schools he at? Texas A and M. Right, what schools 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:09.640 in Lubbock, Texas not Texas Tech. Look it up. Yeah, 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.719 edifice is Greek mythology. By the way, I like that 0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:17.720 it's Greek mythology, not Greek trap. Does account? Was it 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:23.680 a play? Like who's the famous play? Right? Back then Pericles. Anyhow, 0:27:24.040 --> 0:27:29.159 nasty Fanacy Mike went was doing a PhD program at 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:32.360 the local university, and the local university is an egg school, 0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:35.920 like a land Grand egg school, much like the egg 0:27:35.960 --> 0:27:39.080 school that you live not nearby market. I'm on Michigan 0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:42.960 State University. And the people in the community respect the 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.920 school because it's a lot. They have a strong egg program, 0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:51.360 so farmers know it. Relatives went there and Mike knew this, 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:55.320 No was this and would come and say, Hey, I'm 0:27:55.359 --> 0:28:00.320 a you know, I'm from the Texas Tech. I'm from 0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:03.480 Texas Tech. I got all these connections. I feel like 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:05.600 we're giving away Mike's secrets right now. Did he tell 0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.359 us his own secrets? Well? The flip side of that 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:12.720 is growing up in Missoula the surrounding areas. If somebody 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.600 was like, hey, where are you from when you were 0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:19.040 knocking on doors, I never said Missoula, they're not gonna 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:22.320 say yeah. No. Maybe like if you were from Madison 0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:24.400 and you went out and started banging on doors out 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:27.159 in rural Wisconsin, thinking it's gonna get you somewhere that 0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:29.640 you're from Madison. If you're doing that, though, I feel 0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:33.120 like you have to have some some throwback to the air. 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:35.359 So like when I'm trying to get permission on Iowa 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.920 or something, but I'm from Michigan, you encounter that same 0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:40.240 worry like as soon as you okay please, so as 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:42.000 soon as you knock on the door, you' they're gonna say, oh, 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:44.080 well where you from? And you know, if I stay 0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.480 him from Michigan, most likely you get one of two reactions. 0:28:46.480 --> 0:28:48.600 You get one where they get cold and they don't 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.360 want they have towners there, or they get the curious 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:53.720 like you came all the way from Michigan to hunt 0:28:53.760 --> 0:28:56.760 deer here, really like oh yeah, and then you get 0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:58.880 a conversation going there. But what I would try to 0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:00.560 do for the people who you could, since you know, 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:03.160 weren't too into the out of towners, I would always say, well, 0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:05.200 you know, so and so and so and so are 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:07.040 my friends. They hunt in the area, they live here, 0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:09.880 they they they hunt over on Bob and Jerry's down there, 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:12.880 um so on and so forth. With you any kind 0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.440 of throwback to touch into the community, I feel like 0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:18.760 that helps. And then another one of my little things 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.440 that's led to a lot of the permission I've gotten 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.240 is that even when they're like, no, you know, we 0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:25.840 already have someone hunting, or no, we don't want you 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:28.160 to hunt, whatever might be. I always try to end 0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:30.320 that conversation. I keep that conversation going as long as 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:32.280 I possibly can, because he never knows. I've had people 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:34.120 change their mind after talking to you for a while, 0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:36.720 if you just end up talking about something random, and 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.560 then fifteen minutes later, after they see your half decent person, 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:41.239 that ends up all of a sudden, Well, you know, 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.400 Larry doesn't hunt here that often. I guess you could come, um, 0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.600 but if that doesn't happen, I'll always end the conversation. 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:50.440 You know, is there anyone else you happen to know 0:29:50.560 --> 0:29:52.560 that I should, you know, maybe would be worth talking 0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:54.920 to in the area. And lots of times they'll him 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:56.200 and Han and then they'll say, well, I'll go talk 0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:58.000 to so and so down there. And then when you 0:29:58.000 --> 0:29:59.840 talk to so and so, you can say, hey, Bob 0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:02.960 from Extra told me to come down and stop by, 0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:04.960 and then you're in, and then you can just keep 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.120 pointing back to the last one was telling me he 0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:10.800 would never any million years allow me access on his land, 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:12.520 but he thought that I should run down and talk 0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.920 to you, you don't phrase it that way. My old 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:18.840 man had certain like things that that I still stand 0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:21.479 by to day on when just comes to banging on doors. 0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:29.160 So cold calling is pick your time well and the 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:31.840 time to do it. I feel we're not having this 0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:34.720 conversation as the proper amount of structure, trying to find 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:40.360 way to impose structure on it. No, never mind, I 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:41.880 do want to get around and talk about the small 0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.760 game in. So we want to talk about the small 0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:48.200 game in. Let's focus for a minute on the dudes 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:53.880 and don't of cold rolling. Cold rolling being is not 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.280 a dude from your mom and dad's church. You're just 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:04.400 like just completely a dude coming in with no kind 0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:12.640 of I'm friends with Doug sorts of things. Right. Uh, 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:16.680 My old man and these are things I learned from 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:18.680 him that I know to be true. Was very particular 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:22.760 about the time that you do this, and you don't 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:29.440 do it during a farmer's busy as seasons, which tend 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.400 to not be during hunting season. You don't do it 0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:36.080 when they're sitting down to dinner. He felt the window 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:40.520 between mid day he thought was appropriate, and he thought 0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:43.760 that the window between dinner and like winding down getting 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:46.600 ready for bed was a good time to approach someone 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:52.800 about it, and he felt that you do not do 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:59.240 it during hunting season because it's like they've been getting 0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:02.200 in and day with dudes banging on their door. Like 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:04.000 picture of this, like you're in an area, you're trying 0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:07.280 to hunt geese and you're you got there's some big 0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:10.480 grain fields and his geese is plowing into the grain fields. 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:13.040 Every guy out there is seeing this, and he's going 0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:15.600 up to the house nearby and banging on the door 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.480 to see if he can do it. The thing is 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:20.200 that you want to approach this guy now when he's 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.760 getting hit up all the time, but also not when 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:26.000 it's so far away that it seems like he doesn't 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:29.920 want to commit to something that far out. So like 0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:33.800 this window of time when you're kind of the first 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:39.000 guy to show up, um, but you're talking about something 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:41.760 in the foreseeable future that you'd like to be doing. 0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:44.840 Was He felt that was the time to be making 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:51.000 these calls. And then as far as the end thing, 0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:54.240 you're not gonna go up to a guy probably not 0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:59.640 gonna go up and just be like, um, hey man, 0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:01.680 can I come hunt big giant white sail bucks? On 0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:07.920 your place. That's not gonna be the end, you know, 0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:13.640 think so I think a better in is gee, mr um, 0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:19.440 come February, would it be possible that I might come 0:33:19.440 --> 0:33:24.840 out and hunt squirrels on your place? Because then he's 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.719 not doing something that's gonna be pissing off the cousin 0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:30.800 who comes out every year to hunt deer and you 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:33.240 wiggle your way in. I had a permission one time 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:35.800 from a guy where there was no way he had. 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:37.360 Oh there's no way, you know, not gonna happen, not 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:40.800 deer in turkeys. I've actually got squirrel permission on this place, 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:43.160 and I would go hunt squirrels in the winter, and 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:47.200 then I would text message him pictures of the squirrels 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:51.719 that I cooked, being like thanks so much, look at 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:54.920 what we made with our squirrels, which just tickled him endlessly. 0:33:56.000 --> 0:33:57.440 Event she he's like, you know, if you want to 0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:00.680 come on hunt deer and turkeys, go ahead. We do 0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:04.400 the same thing, but with shed hunting because that gets 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:06.360 you in the door, Like, we'll do it in February. 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:08.359 March is like a great time to do this, I think, 0:34:08.400 --> 0:34:10.680 because no one's banged on his door before banging on 0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:12.799 his door and you can say the same kind of thing. Hey, 0:34:12.840 --> 0:34:15.120 you know lots of same thing. I'm in Iowa. We're 0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:18.680 in the area. We've been looking for shed antlers. Curious, 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.000 maybe that might be okay? Behind I we know's we've 0:34:21.040 --> 0:34:22.839 got a couple hundred acres or something, and we drove 0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:26.759 from Michigan just come out here and alers dear lose 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.319 their antlers. Yeah, and then you get it, get telling 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.880 a little interesting story about biology, and then um and 0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:36.600 then yeah, lots of times it seems harmless. And a 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:38.919 lot of farmers you shed antlers as a nuisance because 0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:42.520 they're popping tractor tires. Oh, so you can say, hey, 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:45.520 you ever had a tractor tire popped? And then maybe 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:47.799 you'll get lucky and say, well, actually that did happen. Yeah, 0:34:48.640 --> 0:34:51.160 I gotta tell them that's not so much interested and 0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:54.760 finding shed antlers as I am and prevent entire pops. 0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:57.880 I've got a deal for you. I can help you 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:02.000 to day yep. So so if you get shed hunting permission, 0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:05.040 then you've got a great reason to come back, you know. 0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:09.359 So I really appreciate it. Established whether small game hunting 0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:11.480 or shed hunting or whatever it might be, it's an 0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:15.000 easy end they feel more comfortable established for poor and 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:18.360 then yeah, from there you can see where it goes. Um. Plus, 0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:20.359 the nice thing about doing any one of those things 0:35:20.440 --> 0:35:22.680 is it allows you to walk that property, gives an 0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:26.239 excuse to better learn that property, to decide if it 0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:28.400 really is, you know, worth your time to try to 0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:30.800 deer hunt there, whatever it might be. Um. You know, 0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:34.239 if you're driving out from Michigan, Iowa, most places are 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:36.120 worth hunting. But you want to make sure that if 0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:37.640 you're gonna spend a ton of time and money, that 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:41.200 you have a spot that seems half decent. So so 0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:48.040 mark out of your sort of portfolio places you hunt. What. Um, 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:52.520 how many permissions do you have that aren't like aren't 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:56.160 like leases just like flat out some dude, out of 0:35:56.200 --> 0:36:03.680 an act of kindness lets you hunt his place. Uh Um. 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:07.600 I probably have six or seven different spots that are 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:10.279 just actually more than that, probably eight or nine I 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:14.000 guess that are across scattered states that I have permission 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:16.200 to hunt that it wasn't through connection, it was just 0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:22.359 from knocking on doors or random randomly meeting someone. I'm 0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:25.080 always thinking about permission. So if I meet someone while 0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:28.680 I'm ount in Montana or Iowa, Ohio or somewhere, and 0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:31.160 I happen to think they might own land, I will 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:33.960 I will try to navigate the conversation there in any 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:41.000 way possible reception this uh, this farm you speak of, 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:43.520 But yeah, if you hear about something like that, I'm 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:46.640 not gonna avoid that conversation. I'm getting getting in there. 0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.799 I got the first thing that comes to mind. And 0:36:49.840 --> 0:36:53.479 it's amazing how many times, not not most of the time, 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:56.040 but some of the time. I guess you'll come to 0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:58.719 find out that maybe they don't have somebody hunting, or 0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:01.920 maybe they do. But again, you never know who they 0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:04.239 might know, who they might know. So I mean, it's 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:05.880 one of those things that you just have to always 0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:07.879 be thinking about it, always be working for it, because 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.799 it's so easy to lose permission first off, um, So 0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:12.640 that's a big part of this conversation. I think, too, 0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:15.120 is just as important as getting it, as you really 0:37:15.200 --> 0:37:17.279 need to learn how to keep it. Um. But there's 0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:18.560 a lot of things that happen that are out of 0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:21.760 your control. So yeah, and you lose it for various reasons. 0:37:22.480 --> 0:37:24.680 You can lose it because you screw up, and then 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:27.960 you deserve to lose it, like not leaving gates the 0:37:28.000 --> 0:37:33.560 way you found them, driving on wet fields, because there's 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:35.839 could be things that that if you grew up, if 0:37:35.840 --> 0:37:38.960 you if you've grown up around egg land and kind 0:37:38.960 --> 0:37:44.359 of grow up around working properties, those things you like, know, 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:47.319 you don't do that. Someone who's not familiar with that 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:51.799 world might do without realizing it's a real problem. Like 0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:54.239 you might notice that there's tire tracks skirting around the 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.400 edge of an alfalfa field and be like, oh, I'm 0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:01.000 gonna drive there, not really realizing at the only time 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:05.280 you would ever do that, as if it was just dry, dry, dry, 0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:09.919 And then you go out and leave a big couple 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.000 of ruts in the guy's field, you're gonna lose your permission, 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:18.520 likely or he gives you. Here's here's the story to 0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:23.120 happen me One time, me and my brother had turkey 0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:29.120 hunting permission on a place and he had given me 0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:34.160 and my brother permission, and one day we had our 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:36.960 other brother and a buddy of ours to go honey. 0:38:37.120 --> 0:38:41.840 Now we were not going to hunt without securing extra 0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:45.560 permissions for two more people. We go to the guy's house. 0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:49.239 He's not there, So our first stop was to go 0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:52.799 down his driveway, but he's not there. We then set 0:38:52.800 --> 0:38:57.080 off to go look for him, and we come across 0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:02.000 him and this guy is never even gave us a 0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:08.680 chance to explain ourselves, was out of his truck beating 0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:13.520 on our hood because the one thing he said was 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:19.800 I'm giving two of you permission. Never even got a chance, honestly, 0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:22.040 never got a chance to explain to him that we 0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:26.040 were coming out to find him to inquire about two 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:30.480 other individuals. In his mind, it was the conversation was 0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:34.120 over when he said too, So that was a permission. 0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:38.040 I lost out of being a kind of a dumbass, 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:46.279 kind of assuming that there was some flexibility. It's a bummer, yeah, 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.600 And to be just like screamed at by someone is difficult, 0:39:50.880 --> 0:39:53.880 for sure. I had a friend get the harder it is. 0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:57.360 I had a friend who had permission, who got permission, 0:39:57.600 --> 0:40:00.319 you know, by way of his knock indoors, and he 0:40:00.360 --> 0:40:03.440 went to go This was a handful of years ago, 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.799 and trying to remember his story, but as I remember it, 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:09.000 he had gotten permission and then came back there and 0:40:09.000 --> 0:40:11.400 don't a week later or something with his wife to 0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:14.680 do some scouting. And this guy lived down this little 0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.160 like two track road way back in the middle of nowhere. 0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:20.440 So he decided to go down the road park his car, 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:21.960 and then his wife was going to stay in the 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:24.480 car while he went off and did some scouting or 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:28.400 whatever he was doing. Um, he hadn't told the landowner this, 0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:30.839 and so he goes off to his walking, but his 0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:32.799 wife is sitting in this car pulled off the side 0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:34.359 of the road and this guy's farm and this guy 0:40:34.840 --> 0:40:37.640 comes up from behind. The landowner ends up seeing this car. 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:41.040 It wasn't the same vehicle that this friend had used before. 0:40:41.160 --> 0:40:43.560 So he sees a random car with a lady sitting 0:40:43.600 --> 0:40:46.439 in the front seat, and he was so mad about 0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:49.520 somebody trespass he went running up with a shotgun, screaming 0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:54.279 at her through the window. And uh, just because of 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:59.000 you know, lack of communications. But nope, nope, that didn't 0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:02.520 work out too well for end. If my number one 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:05.480 rule is no gray area, there are no assumptions. I'm like, 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.400 this is exactly the Hey, just so you know, I 0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:11.040 have this crappy old white Chevy with a gray topper. 0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:16.480 That's me and it's and then if friends are it's 0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:20.480 also like the timing conversation and figuring out like what 0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:23.640 would be kind of valuable to these people, like hey, 0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:28.000 like you know gates, you knock it all out up front, 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:31.319 and then if somebody's like, hey, I know you got 0:41:31.320 --> 0:41:34.360 permission on that place, can I come to I'm always like, 0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:38.480 you know, I'll talk to him this winner. We'll see 0:41:38.480 --> 0:41:42.000 about next next year, because I already got permission this year, 0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:44.279 and I'm not gonna push my luck this year. Such 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.799 a tenuous thing, I think, yeah, because then you always 0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:49.839 got like every farmer's got a cousin or something, so 0:41:49.880 --> 0:41:52.120 you lose them too, not because you did something bad, 0:41:53.320 --> 0:41:58.120 but because he's like, oh, you know my cousin. He 0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:01.040 wants to come out with his cousins. I can't say 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:02.480 no to them. So this year is just gonna be 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:06.040 too crowded out here. That's a big way that people lose. 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:09.000 You kind of have to take advantage why you have it. 0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:12.000 But yeah, it is this he had a walk that 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:17.400 like this line that is not truly even there, uh, 0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:19.760 because you never know when those properties are gonna go 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:24.960 go away forever, and typically when they're gone, they're gone. Um. 0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.520 But at the same time, you can't push your luck either. 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:32.719 We used to do a lot of gift giving and 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:36.400 then offers of work, like I remember the main farm 0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.960 we hunted as kids. We hunted two main farms as kids. 0:42:39.000 --> 0:42:45.040 I remember the farmer broke his arm and for weeks 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:47.840 my old man had me and my brothers were just 0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:52.680 little kids. For weeks we were out there shovel and manure. Well, 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:55.600 the farmer's arm was broken because my old man would 0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:58.000 use us. You know, that's something Davy Crockett's dad did. 0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:02.600 People don't realize that's Davy Crockett. His father hired him 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:07.480 out as an indentured servant to satisfy his own debts 0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:11.080 from the time I think from the time he turned nine, 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:16.960 his father would would give his give Davis Davy Crockett's 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:21.319 father would give his labor to his debtors. So male 0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:23.759 man would do a similar thing for hunt permissions. We 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:26.680 would go out and shovel manure for Harold zeldn rust 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:32.839 That's such a West Michigan name. Yeah. Yeah. The other 0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:34.920 families are great families and my mom, my mom's still 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:37.400 the Frenz these families, but the zelden Rustan's at the 0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:39.040 zur Lot. So I grew up thinking that everybody had 0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:42.560 a Z last started a Z no but great, Yeah, 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.480 so we did that, went out shovel ner. I used 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:51.200 to throw hay bales for tom weirds mom, a farmer. 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:53.759 I would throw hay bales for him in the summertime. 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:56.120 Small price to pay because you only throw hay bales 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:59.759 for like a day or two. Yeah, but there's so 0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:02.640 few people understanding that. It was understanding because we would 0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:06.040 hunt his place for small game, hunted his place one 0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:10.239 time for geese in an hour trap. Yeah. He had 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:12.040 a handful of properties that he would call you to 0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.320 throw bails and you went through bales. Yeah, and you 0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:18.120 better drop what you're doing and go. Yeah. It wasn't 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:21.160 like a spoken thing. It wasn't like, oh, I'll give 0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:25.680 you permission on the you know, on the condition that 0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:29.719 you satisfy X demands. It was just sort of there 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:31.560 was like this sort of recipant. It was like this 0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:35.480 built in understanding of I'm doing something for you, you 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:39.120 will do something for me. I once saw have you 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:44.520 guys seen the um poison dispensers for gopher holes or 0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:47.759 prairie dog holes that you can mount on the front 0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:50.839 of a four wheeler so you drive over the top 0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:53.959 of the hole, hit the button that drops a little 0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:58.759 a certain amount of uh poison pellets into the gopher hole. 0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:02.840 Uh buddy of mind. And I showed up. It was 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:07.520 hunting season, but it and it was cold right. The 0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:11.600 the farmer rancher was like, no, I don't have time 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:17.799 for this, and my buddies like, uh, you mind if 0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:21.239 we just we were asking for archery permission to hunt mule. 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:25.560 You're on his place and he's like, what if we 0:45:25.680 --> 0:45:31.400 just shoot gophers? And it was like this, oh, with 0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:35.920 bows and arrows, if you're gonna shoot gophers and this 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.040 is not an exaggeration at all, and this is not 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:42.880 like an archery trick shot at all. But it gopher 0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:45.200 is standing up on the edge of this guy's yard 0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:49.080 and the guys like, can you hit that one? This 0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:51.839 is like a fifteen yard shot with a compound bow. Right, 0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:57.080 it's not not crazy. Uh my buddy, uh kyler shoots 0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:01.920 the thing and guys like, all right, stay on the roads. 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:11.799 That I think is the thing that people, yeah, because 0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:13.840 like when people are gonna go do a farmer or 0:46:13.840 --> 0:46:16.600 a property owner of favors, they tend to want to 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:20.239 do the enjoyable favors. So you get a lot of 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:22.640 guys who, because farmers do need to do a lot 0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:24.960 of in some areas, need to do a lot of 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:29.320 prairie dog work, like controlling prairie dog colonies or ground 0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:33.200 squirrel colonies which destroy you can destroy crop land or 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:36.239 destroy pasture land. So people are like, oh, it doesn't 0:46:36.280 --> 0:46:38.279 sound half bad. And if that's something this guy really 0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:40.680 needs to get done and actually pays to have done, 0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.879 I'll volunteer for that. It's less people who are like, hey, man, 0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:50.240 do need help stringing fence, fixing fence, moving pipe whatever. Yeah, 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:52.840 I think that that stuff goes a long way. And 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:54.520 there's a lot of guys that aren't gonna take you 0:46:54.760 --> 0:46:57.919 up on it because like in the time it would 0:46:58.000 --> 0:46:59.840 teach you what to do and show you all the 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:03.600 analyst he could have had it done, but they're impressed 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.640 that you offered yes. And and to be clear, I 0:47:06.719 --> 0:47:10.839 think very much this particular rancher was just like kind 0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:13.480 of had to eat his own words because he's like, 0:47:13.560 --> 0:47:15.600 there's no way in hell you're gonna hit that prairie dog. 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:19.480 And he's like, oh, yeah, I just yeah, go for 0:47:19.640 --> 0:47:22.640 it type of thing. So and then he's less worried 0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:24.759 about having deer running around with arrows coming out of 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:32.160 weird parts of them. Yeah what else? Mark? Uh, Well, 0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:35.839 to this point of we're talking keeping permission, we're kind 0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:37.840 of fast forwarding a little bit from getting it, but 0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:40.320 I think, yeah, we can stay and I want to 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:42.120 stay on and keeping. So not only though it is 0:47:42.200 --> 0:47:45.160 doing in the gift given yet you mentioned it, which 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:48.160 gift giving you. I've done Christmas cards, I've done veggies 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:50.640 in the garden, I do venison, all that kind of stuff. 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:53.719 But another thing that seems simple, but some people really 0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:59.360 value it, especially if it's someone who's older, maybe a 0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:02.399 little more low lee. Um, there's a gentleman. I hunted 0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:05.879 his property that I know. This guy just wants a friend, 0:48:06.120 --> 0:48:09.160 like he just wants them to talk to you myself. 0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:13.640 So I mean when when I had a friend in 0:48:13.680 --> 0:48:18.160 the truck, Yeah at him. So whenever I'm there, though, 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:21.520 he just you make time to just sit in there. 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:23.839 You're just planning on forty five minutes that we're gonna 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:25.320 talk and we're gonna talk about World War two, and 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.040 we're gonna talk about the dust Bowl, and we're gonna 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.520 talk about the book he wrote, and we're gonna talk 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:32.759 about how we still love to go dancing, and we'll 0:48:32.760 --> 0:48:34.839 talk about the same stories every time, and I love 0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:37.360 it and I appreciate the guy so much, and I 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:41.040 say everything, and we talked politics and I disagree with 0:48:42.000 --> 0:48:43.320 what he says, but no in my head and like 0:48:43.360 --> 0:48:47.480 you're absolutely right and U and it's great. I mean, 0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:51.359 it's it's it's I know that he appreciates that so much. 0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:55.319 And I appreciate, you know, the opportunity to hunt um. 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:57.719 And I think there's people out there like that. It 0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:01.319 is appreciation to I know lot of ranchers where it's 0:49:02.640 --> 0:49:05.360 like even if you do everything right but you're not, 0:49:05.760 --> 0:49:11.200 you don't show them that you truly appreciate the work 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:15.000 that they've done, how they've maintained their place, kind of 0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:18.319 the sweat and tears that they've put into it. They're 0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:20.439 just gonna be like, yeah, I feel a little taken 0:49:20.480 --> 0:49:23.520 advantage of. So yeah, it is the true interest in 0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:27.000 the in what's going on out there, like oh boy, 0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:29.800 I see you did this, and that's everything's looking so 0:49:29.960 --> 0:49:33.720 good this year, and that that's a big deal. My brother, 0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:40.879 uh makes veniceon summer sausages and it puts together gift 0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:43.320 bags for people that he for people who are he 0:49:43.400 --> 0:49:47.439 has hunting permission. It makes veniceon summer sausages and puts 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:51.960 other things in the gift bag and brings that around. Especially. 0:49:52.000 --> 0:49:53.880 You could be like, hey, I shot this deer on 0:49:54.000 --> 0:49:57.720 your place and then that made this. Here's this summer sausage. 0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:03.400 People eat that. Eat it up metaphorically and literally. They 0:50:03.440 --> 0:50:05.239 may turn around and give it away, but it's a 0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:09.400 big deal that you drove the ninety miles or whatever 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:11.840 to deliver this stuff. We used to hunt on a 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:14.440 guy's place, you know. The last man to be legally 0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:19.279 hanged in Wyoming was Tom Horne. There's a movie about 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:24.040 Tom horn Um. He was a stock detective and he 0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:28.560 was kind of like caught up in he had old 0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:33.880 fashioned ways of dealing with cattle rustlers that were falling 0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:37.800 out of favor in his time, Like it was just 0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:39.920 getting the He was into the early nineteen hunters and 0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:42.560 you couldn't just ride out and start shooting people who 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:44.800 were stealing cattle anymore. And wounded up getting him on 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:47.040 the wrong end of a rope and he was hanged 0:50:47.080 --> 0:50:50.480 and shared in Wyoming. The last man to be illegally 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:52.919 hanged Tom Horn, so we had I used to hunt 0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:57.520 of guys land named Tom Horn. So I brought Tom 0:50:57.640 --> 0:51:03.200 Horn a book about um Horn that's pretty good, which 0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:06.320 he appreciated. Now we would also hunt rabbits on his 0:51:06.400 --> 0:51:08.080 place a lot, and one day I brought him a 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:10.959 carrot cake that was decorated with rabbits. And I felt 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:14.920 like it really like he didn't didn't get that he 0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:20.320 didn't get and like standing there like look right, and 0:51:20.360 --> 0:51:22.560 I remember being like just looking at like what in 0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:24.960 the world these boys bring me a cake for it? 0:51:25.920 --> 0:51:32.160 What are it's it's got rabbits on there. You know, 0:51:32.400 --> 0:51:35.040 we um now that we want rabbits out here. So 0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:38.919 there's rabbits in the cake. Remember that fell a little flat. 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:41.839 But he really liked the Tom hornbook. And so there 0:51:41.920 --> 0:51:43.880 was like a thought like trying to be like a 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:47.960 thoughtful gift to say, hey, thank you so much for 0:51:48.080 --> 0:51:52.719 allowing us access to your property. And people are pragmatic, 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:55.799 and I think people, especially in the agricultural world, are 0:51:56.120 --> 0:52:01.279 extremely pragmatic relative to other segment of the population. And 0:52:01.360 --> 0:52:03.960 I think that to be like, you know, how you 0:52:04.080 --> 0:52:06.000 let us come out and hunt your place. Well, here's 0:52:06.000 --> 0:52:08.640 all the stuff we cooked with the things we got 0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:10.800 in your place, like we put it to use and 0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:14.520 now we're here's something for you. That makes them feel 0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:16.879 like because when you like love a piece of land 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:18.319 and work a piece of land, you'd like to see 0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:21.600 the land provide the fruits that you're labor. Yeah, And 0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:24.480 so to have some Joe Shmo you know from town, 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:29.960 come out and harvest something off the place and you 0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:32.279 see that he's using it and sharing it with you, 0:52:32.960 --> 0:52:35.800 it makes them feel like how they like good about 0:52:36.040 --> 0:52:40.399 the property's ability to provide a good see. It too 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:44.960 for people to remember is you know these farmers and ranchers, 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:51.560 they're not folks that really have downtime, Like they can 0:52:51.640 --> 0:52:56.200 work every minute, every day in perpetuity. And so you're 0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:59.239 already starting out your footing a little bit of a hole. 0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:03.719 So like, oh, boys have some free time. Huh, that's 0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:09.000 gotta be nice. Yeah, So like the last thing that 0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:13.279 he would ever be doing would be driving around trying 0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:15.640 to find a place to recreate. Oh yeah. Or you 0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:20.880 guys choose to sleep outside. I've gotten that so many times. 0:53:21.200 --> 0:53:23.120 Like your days off, you want to go out and 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:26.480 be cold again. We used to have where I grew up. 0:53:26.520 --> 0:53:28.840 There was a lot of not Amish, but they were 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:30.560 like there are men and nights, but they had the 0:53:30.600 --> 0:53:34.640 same where they cut the same rigid sabbath and their 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:38.880 deal like they had like last thing like Yoda and 0:53:39.080 --> 0:53:42.960 various things like that, and uh, their deal was that 0:53:43.120 --> 0:53:46.960 you do not hunt. I think they kept a Saturday sabbath, 0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:51.120 no Saturday hunting. And in fact, when I would trap 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:54.279 land men and nite land and I had a lot 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:56.360 of permissions with these guys because once I knew some 0:53:56.480 --> 0:53:58.520 of the people in that community could get permissions anywhere 0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:03.760 in the community. You pulled your traps like by dusk 0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:08.480 on Friday. Yeah, kind of they were not even on 0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:11.520 the land working. You pulled them and then re put 0:54:11.560 --> 0:54:14.040 them back out again. And it's just like a thing 0:54:14.160 --> 0:54:18.560 like I can't even begin to understand where you're coming from. 0:54:18.680 --> 0:54:22.719 But it's your place, Okay, Yes, if that's the rule, 0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.440 seemingly not that definitely doesn't seem arbitrary. But it was 0:54:29.480 --> 0:54:33.200 just like a different thing you were invited into. But no, 0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:36.319 I mean it goes that's a unilateral right, it's our 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:40.319 universal rather rather the you may be on one place 0:54:40.440 --> 0:54:44.720 that the guy's like, oh yeah, drive wherever. Don't assume 0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:47.680 the next property is gonna be the same way. You're like, 0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:51.319 what do you mean your body down the road? Lets 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:54.560 me drive through the field that's not gonna go over Well, yeah, 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:58.839 guys that are touchy about driving, we would also this offer, like, well, 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:01.000 does park at the house and ever even touched the car, 0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:04.520 just walk from the house. You're worried about gates and 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:07.279 driving and all that, we won't even drive And some 0:55:07.400 --> 0:55:10.919 people like that sounds good. Great. Yeah, I've always thought 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:14.040 that's important, just to make sure you know where do 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:16.000 you want to part? Where should drive? Like that always 0:55:16.000 --> 0:55:17.719 seems to be one of those sticking points. It's good 0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:20.160 to have laid out ahead of time, like you said earlier, 0:55:20.400 --> 0:55:23.520 layout and get as many things on the table up 0:55:23.560 --> 0:55:26.359 front as possible. No no question marks if you can 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:30.759 so no, no, Mark Kenny, You're an organized guy. So 0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:37.520 we handle. We touched on get kicked off once you've 0:55:37.560 --> 0:55:45.880 had it. We touched on maintaining. We're talking a bit 0:55:45.920 --> 0:55:47.879 about getting. Should we talk about getting or yeah, let's 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:49.600 talk about get. Definitely need to talk a little more 0:55:49.640 --> 0:55:54.359 about Can I share my process? Oh please? Because I'm 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:58.960 pretty now. I already mentioned like I'm always thinking about permission, 0:55:59.000 --> 0:56:01.120 so if if random up tunities pop up, I always 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:03.800 tried to take it um So once like, I was 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:06.360 driving around in Montana looking for places to hunt and 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:09.160 ran across the guy that had a flat tire, so 0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:12.080 stopped to help him out. As I'm helping with his tires, 0:56:12.480 --> 0:56:16.279 before I can starts. You don't have old land, you 0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:20.959 know anybody that does? No, I just have a jack. 0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:26.160 But but any type of happenstance like that, you know, 0:56:26.320 --> 0:56:28.680 sometimes good things come on that. But when you don't 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:32.160 have a situation like that, when I'm simply what happened there, 0:56:32.200 --> 0:56:34.719 I was, I was joking. Yeah, So I got out 0:56:35.600 --> 0:56:39.080 yeah on likes because I helped him out and give 0:56:39.120 --> 0:56:40.879 him a drive back home and were just chit chat 0:56:40.920 --> 0:56:42.279 and he's like, well, what are you doing out here? 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:43.920 I was like, oh, I'm just trying to find a 0:56:43.960 --> 0:56:48.879 place to deer hunt and I knew and he's like, well, 0:56:49.400 --> 0:56:51.919 you know, we have all this land over here, and gosh, 0:56:51.960 --> 0:56:53.279 it was real nice to you to help us out 0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:55.360 and everything. I was like, I'm happy to do it. 0:56:55.440 --> 0:56:57.680 And then he brought me over for a beer. We're 0:56:57.719 --> 0:56:59.400 having a beer and then we keep talking, He's like, 0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:01.239 so you really like to hunt hunt? I was telling 0:57:01.360 --> 0:57:03.400 more and more about it, and by the end of 0:57:03.480 --> 0:57:05.399 you know, like an hour drinking beer and helping out, 0:57:06.080 --> 0:57:10.680 I had access. So yeah, that's good old American elbow 0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:13.760 grease access getting right there, man. Yeah, But it doesn't 0:57:13.760 --> 0:57:16.840 always come now, Yeah, it doesn't come falling out of 0:57:16.880 --> 0:57:18.560 the sky like that all time. So I kind of 0:57:18.600 --> 0:57:20.200 have like a process that I go through when it 0:57:20.240 --> 0:57:23.160 comes to to the to your point of being organized. 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:24.640 This is where that comes out, I guess for me, 0:57:25.080 --> 0:57:26.720 because I think the biggest thing when it comes to 0:57:26.800 --> 0:57:29.680 getting hunting permission, at least around where I'm at, which 0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:33.280 is you know, south central Michigan, UM, where there's lots 0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:36.640 and lots and lots and lots of hunters, like deer 0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:39.000 hunters in the state now somewhere around there, um. And 0:57:39.040 --> 0:57:42.160 then the vast majority of that vast majority of that's 0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:44.840 crammed in the bottom third of the state. There's tons 0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:48.320 of pressure are yeah. Yeah, So everyone's trying to get 0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:51.400 permission to hunt. So it's a numbers game. And whether 0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:53.440 that's you know, down by me or almost anywhere, it 0:57:53.520 --> 0:57:55.160 comes down to being a numbers game. Like you just 0:57:55.240 --> 0:57:58.080 need to go into it, in my opinion, knowing that 0:57:58.160 --> 0:57:59.920 you're gonna get a lot of nose so you need 0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:02.240 to ask a lot of people to get that one yes. 0:58:02.920 --> 0:58:07.040 So what I do is I would say, out of fifteen, 0:58:07.960 --> 0:58:10.920 fifteen to twenty asks, i'll get one to two yeses. 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:16.920 So we'll say one to ten um so rejection a 0:58:16.960 --> 0:58:19.000 lot of rejections. So I planned for that. And I 0:58:19.160 --> 0:58:24.000 hate I hate coal, coal knocking on doors like I'm nervous, 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.280 I'm uncomfortable about it. I don't like to have uncomfortable 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:29.320 conversations with people I don't know it. Also, I know 0:58:29.440 --> 0:58:32.360 that about myself. So I forced myself into a process 0:58:32.440 --> 0:58:35.480 to get past that. So I go and I look 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:38.640 at PLAT maps or whatever digital online g S maps 0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:41.200 are out there or whatever, look at aerial maps and 0:58:41.280 --> 0:58:43.480 pick out. I always try to get a list of 0:58:43.600 --> 0:58:46.160 at least ten twenty properties that I would like to 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:48.520 get permission on. I make a list and I find 0:58:49.400 --> 0:58:51.200 the landowner information so I know the names and the 0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:53.440 addresses for every one of those ten to fifteen places. 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:56.000 Will say so. For example, I did this in Iowa, 0:58:56.400 --> 0:58:58.160 and a lot of people think that to hunt in 0:58:58.240 --> 0:59:00.560 Iowa at least in the white tail world. That's like 0:59:00.680 --> 0:59:03.080 the mecca of the white tailed world. Everyone thinks that's 0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:04.960 where the biggest deer are, that's the best deer hunting 0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:07.680 in the country. So people assume you need to pay 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:10.440 an outfit or five thousand dollars or pay ten thousand 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:11.960 dollars a year for a least or something to go 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:14.600 and hunt there. Um, I want to hunt there for free. 0:59:15.600 --> 0:59:18.240 So I did this. I put together a list um 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:20.760 between looking at all these different things, and then all 0:59:20.760 --> 0:59:21.919 was a sadde a couple of friends in the area 0:59:21.960 --> 0:59:24.160 who said, hey, you know, this property looks like one 0:59:24.200 --> 0:59:25.919 you should look at. I've I've seen a big buck 0:59:25.960 --> 0:59:27.760 in that field. So I put together the list. I 0:59:27.760 --> 0:59:33.479 have fifteen properties and then the same area general region 0:59:33.560 --> 0:59:39.160 within like fifteen man maybe ten miles. Um. So I 0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:42.840 don't like knocking in doors and cold knocking. So because 0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:47.840 of that, what like a door to door salesman banging 0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:49.640 on the door and saying, hey, my name is Mark. 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:52.120 Can I go on? Yeah, that's that's an uncomfortable thing, 0:59:52.320 --> 0:59:55.760 but sometimes that's what you have to do. So what 0:59:55.960 --> 0:59:58.360 I make myself do is I'm gonna do that and 0:59:58.360 --> 1:00:00.240 I'm gonna do all of it in one dy. I'm 1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:02.959 gonna knock on fifteen doors, and one day I'm gonna 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:05.480 have a list. I don't have a plan, and that 1:00:05.640 --> 1:00:08.480 first store you go up to is I don't want 1:00:08.520 --> 1:00:10.200 to do this. I should just go back to Michigan. 1:00:10.840 --> 1:00:12.720 But you get through that, You get through that door knock, 1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:14.800 and it goes okay, you didn't get yelled at, you 1:00:14.840 --> 1:00:17.800 didn't get shot. It was okay. The next one feels 1:00:17.800 --> 1:00:20.400 a little bit better. The next one is even better, 1:00:20.480 --> 1:00:23.200 and then by four, five, six, seven, it's a snowball effect, 1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:26.920 and by twelve fifteen it's piece cake, nothing to it. 1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:32.200 So I can get through so many door knocking. That's 1:00:32.400 --> 1:00:35.600 but that is still your initial point of contact. Well, 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:38.360 so it's like bang, bang on the door. This is 1:00:38.400 --> 1:00:40.680 if I've exercised all their options. So this is if 1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:43.840 you know, I've went through my whole personal network and 1:00:43.840 --> 1:00:47.080 there's nothing. This is if I've tried to, you know, 1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:49.600 strike up conversation in a hardware store or at the 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:52.640 bar or whatever. I mean, anyway you can get a connection. 1:00:52.800 --> 1:00:55.080 Is is the best. This is if I have zero, 1:00:55.720 --> 1:00:57.280 if I have nothing else to work with, if I'm 1:00:57.360 --> 1:01:01.040 completely in the dark. Starting from grounds zero, you get 1:01:01.080 --> 1:01:03.640 the list. You try if you know anything. I mean, 1:01:04.160 --> 1:01:06.600 I'm trying to think of a good example. Um, but 1:01:06.720 --> 1:01:09.160 any little bit of tidbit of information about the people 1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:14.240 or the area. Yes, anything like that, Like I'll slap 1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:18.320 a Hawkeye sticker on my truck when I put high 1:01:18.320 --> 1:01:23.800 school teams. Yeah, big deal, innum, But but yeah, you 1:01:23.960 --> 1:01:26.720 can do it. I got permission on over a thousand 1:01:26.760 --> 1:01:31.080 and over a thousand acres in Iowa for zero dollars 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:35.680 um out of state dude. And then and it came 1:01:35.880 --> 1:01:38.160 came down to things that I said earlier. Where so 1:01:38.480 --> 1:01:42.280 I think you got to present yourself, you know, as 1:01:42.320 --> 1:01:47.040 a non dangerous, somewhat respectable person. You don't want to 1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:48.200 go up there in like a suit and tie and 1:01:48.240 --> 1:01:50.880 seeing like all toity. But I don't think you also 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:53.080 want to show up like you've been shoveling maneuver for 1:01:53.200 --> 1:01:55.680 the last seventeen days and you're someone who looks a 1:01:55.680 --> 1:01:57.600 little sketchy. I think there's like a middle ground. So 1:01:57.720 --> 1:02:00.960 present yourself in a respectable way, have a decent thing 1:02:01.080 --> 1:02:03.440 planned about how you want to start a conversation. And 1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:07.480 then I always try to let that conversation go anywhere 1:02:07.520 --> 1:02:10.200 it wants for as long as it wants um. Even 1:02:10.280 --> 1:02:12.200 if they come out and say no, you know you 1:02:12.280 --> 1:02:14.520 can't hunt here. I'll keep chatting them up for as 1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:16.240 long as they want to chat because you know, I 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:18.520 don't want to be disrespectful and bother them. Like if 1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:20.440 they want to be out of the conversation, you know, 1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:22.440 I'll be out of your hair. Sorry to bother you. 1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:26.320 But many times people just want chat sometimes especially I 1:02:26.360 --> 1:02:30.280 feel like some of these, you know, a slightly older gentleman, 1:02:30.360 --> 1:02:32.160 maybe it's on a farm and ile or whatever it 1:02:32.200 --> 1:02:35.640 might be, roll Ohio where to my point earlier, sometimes 1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:38.880 they just want chat um and many times does lead 1:02:38.960 --> 1:02:42.800 to different opportunities. And then you leverage that last one, 1:02:42.840 --> 1:02:44.520 so you say, oh, Bob sent me, and then Bill 1:02:44.560 --> 1:02:46.760 sent me, and then as you keep going those things, 1:02:47.080 --> 1:02:49.000 they kind of all they all work together. I think 1:02:49.040 --> 1:02:51.320 another important thing, and I want to stay with your process. Best. 1:02:51.320 --> 1:02:53.760 Want to interject on a couple of points. When doing 1:02:54.040 --> 1:02:58.800 cold door knocking, go by yourself. Do not unless you 1:02:58.880 --> 1:03:03.320 can go with your wife or better a four year old. 1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:06.160 The best thing that could happen is you go with 1:03:06.280 --> 1:03:10.200 your kids. I cannot wait for my up. One of 1:03:10.240 --> 1:03:12.600 the those the most excited about this. You'll be tearing 1:03:12.640 --> 1:03:14.800 permissions a new one when you can go up with kids. 1:03:15.640 --> 1:03:17.720 The more you're probably doing it with the baby Bjorn 1:03:18.040 --> 1:03:21.680 sat right to your chest, walk right up. Because one 1:03:21.840 --> 1:03:25.160 you're just playing on like a basic innate human thing 1:03:25.360 --> 1:03:31.920 where you sort of like appreciate seeing like a father, 1:03:34.200 --> 1:03:36.600 like interacting with children in a way, or you're trying 1:03:36.600 --> 1:03:38.080 to like introduce them to the out of doors and 1:03:38.160 --> 1:03:40.600 be outside with them and and you know, and their 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:42.000 kids come up to them and look them in the 1:03:42.080 --> 1:03:44.600 eye and you know, shake their hands. That just resonates 1:03:44.640 --> 1:03:49.960 with people. Don't go up there were three dudes, because 1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:54.640 you can want to making someone uneasy with a bunch 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:56.480 of people. It's like go up by yourself, or if 1:03:56.520 --> 1:03:58.520 you can't go up with your spouse or go up 1:03:58.560 --> 1:04:02.840 with your children. Don't people off these Also, it's like 1:04:02.920 --> 1:04:05.840 four guys standing outside the door. And I think the 1:04:05.920 --> 1:04:08.160 way you're dressing is important too, because if you're like 1:04:08.680 --> 1:04:10.520 if you're in a suit here and be wandering like 1:04:11.280 --> 1:04:16.000 what are you either door to door proselytizing or sellings. 1:04:16.080 --> 1:04:20.040 It's just it's just weird and off but clean, caught, 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:24.920 put together, look him in the eye. State your purpose. 1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:28.960 I've you know, seen where people come up and they 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:30.880 like beat around the bush so much and sort of 1:04:30.960 --> 1:04:32.960 creates attention where the person's like, why are you at 1:04:33.040 --> 1:04:41.720 my door? So make your intentions known fairly quickly. There's 1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:43.400 like this one school thought that you're supposed to go 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:46.439 up and start complimenting them on the place. But unless 1:04:46.520 --> 1:04:49.400 you're able to pull that off in a very authentic way, 1:04:49.480 --> 1:04:53.640 I think it can be off putting. Yeah, beautiful proper, 1:04:53.720 --> 1:04:56.919 couldn't help, but notice your beautiful property here. Like people 1:04:56.920 --> 1:05:02.080 are like, come on, bro, is a dollar harvester? Come on, 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:05.520 like polite, But unless you can really pull it off, 1:05:06.240 --> 1:05:08.640 don't come up and do just like like sort of 1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:13.320 like cynical acts of flattery as a way to you know, 1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:16.280 as a way to establish when someone. If I get 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:17.640 a knock on the door and I come up, some 1:05:17.720 --> 1:05:20.400 guys like beautiful house you have here, I'm like, oh 1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:23.320 my god, where's this going? Boy? This is going somewhere? 1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:25.440 Or I don't want to go to the point of 1:05:25.560 --> 1:05:29.360 making your intentions known quickly, relatively quickly. I also think 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:33.040 clearly because sometimes if you just generically say, hey, can 1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:35.480 I get permission to hunt here? That's like a lot 1:05:35.920 --> 1:05:39.120 to consider if you make it very clear maybe I'm 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:41.080 just looking for somewhere to bow hunt for one week 1:05:41.120 --> 1:05:42.360 this year. If you're only going to be in that 1:05:42.440 --> 1:05:44.320 area for a week or whatever, it might be Specify 1:05:44.800 --> 1:05:47.960 what weapons, Specify how long or how often or anything 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:51.240 like that, um because many times that will make them 1:05:51.320 --> 1:05:54.919 feel more comfortable or be your specific request might fit 1:05:55.040 --> 1:05:59.960 into their you know, set up, when a general request wouldn't. 1:06:00.160 --> 1:06:04.040 That's another permission I lost. I one time got a 1:06:04.080 --> 1:06:06.400 permission to trap muskrats on a large marsh and it 1:06:06.520 --> 1:06:08.320 was like a difficult march to get access to. And 1:06:08.400 --> 1:06:10.480 I got access to the march to a guy who 1:06:10.480 --> 1:06:15.480 wanted being a theater teacher, and he very plately after 1:06:15.520 --> 1:06:19.280 a while said like, I didn't realize that it was 1:06:19.360 --> 1:06:23.120 something that that needs to be done every day, so 1:06:23.440 --> 1:06:25.200 in the few I didn't lose it kind of lost. 1:06:25.240 --> 1:06:29.920 It's like in the future, um let's work on picking 1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:32.960 out like a handful of days. Because he didn't know 1:06:33.120 --> 1:06:38.600 that you might trap three months and in a giant place. 1:06:38.680 --> 1:06:40.760 He might be like using that point of access. It's 1:06:40.760 --> 1:06:43.080 just like in his mind he just pictured something that 1:06:43.160 --> 1:06:47.600 would happen a few times. But I do to yourself 1:06:47.880 --> 1:06:53.600 also to your point um starting out where you're talking 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:58.480 about like a finite period of time this weekend, would 1:06:58.520 --> 1:07:01.320 it be okay if we hunted thing? Because you could 1:07:01.360 --> 1:07:06.000 always do it successfully, stick to your word. Everyone's happy. 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:10.560 You go back again, and then it might turn into 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:13.200 that you know what, just you know, you know the 1:07:13.320 --> 1:07:18.680 you know the place, you know the rules, help yourself. 1:07:19.400 --> 1:07:22.640 That happens all the time that you get in and 1:07:22.760 --> 1:07:24.919 eventually a guys just like you guys are you guys 1:07:25.000 --> 1:07:27.360 know what's up out here? Never any problem with you guys, 1:07:27.400 --> 1:07:31.560 go ahead and eliminate that vagary. Right, It's like I 1:07:31.880 --> 1:07:35.160 want hunting permission. That that's so much a place like 1:07:35.240 --> 1:07:41.000 Iowa that's upland birds and turkeys and uh sometimes mule 1:07:41.000 --> 1:07:43.560 deer and white tailor. Right, I don't think there's oh 1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:47.919 no western Nebraska. But it's like, yeah, well my kids 1:07:48.000 --> 1:07:50.840 really like to hunt pheasants. You know, said knock that 1:07:50.960 --> 1:07:54.160 stuff out of the gate before they have a chance 1:07:54.240 --> 1:07:57.960 to say no to it. Be real specific, finite amount 1:07:57.960 --> 1:07:59.560 of days will be out of your hair before you 1:07:59.560 --> 1:08:01.880 even though I used to have a permission where we 1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:04.880 can hunt everything but rabbits, and rabbits is usually the 1:08:04.920 --> 1:08:07.600 way to get in. But this guy had a kid 1:08:07.680 --> 1:08:12.200 who had rabbit dogs. Yeah, so he was like, sure, anything, 1:08:12.320 --> 1:08:14.520 but the thing that you probably think I would most 1:08:14.600 --> 1:08:17.880 readily let you go do is off limits. Yeah. We 1:08:18.000 --> 1:08:23.160 had a great permission outside of um actually kind of 1:08:23.200 --> 1:08:27.240 outside a red lodge and guys like, yeah, you guys 1:08:27.280 --> 1:08:30.760 can hunt. Here's like how the place lays out. Have 1:08:30.880 --> 1:08:37.080 a great time, but just uh, you can kill all 1:08:37.200 --> 1:08:40.800 the turkeys you see, and you can kill all the 1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:44.040 elky see, but don't shooting anything else because you know 1:08:44.120 --> 1:08:47.600 they're coming back from some disease or something. So of 1:08:47.720 --> 1:08:52.479 course all we see are like white tails and pheasants. 1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:55.800 You know. It was like just bizarre, O. We're old 1:08:55.800 --> 1:08:59.720 out there, you know. Yeah. And that's not a point 1:08:59.760 --> 1:09:05.280 you to argue with someone. It's just like okay, yeah, 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:08.840 that needs to be your attitude. Yeah, you can't explain 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:11.400 it either. You can't be like, well, okay statistically and 1:09:11.479 --> 1:09:13.960 talk to the biologists and just so you know, here's 1:09:14.000 --> 1:09:15.679 this and it's like, oh, so you know my play 1:09:15.720 --> 1:09:19.720 is better than I do, all right, Mark keep walking 1:09:19.800 --> 1:09:22.639 us through the process. Well, I mean, I think we've 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:26.160 kind of covered the all the bases of my process. 1:09:26.400 --> 1:09:29.360 You start by looking at all the maps, and and 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:34.439 even before that, something I do is if I'm going 1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:36.840 into let's say I want to hunt a state of 1:09:36.880 --> 1:09:38.400 heaven hunted before we're gonna go back a little bit 1:09:38.439 --> 1:09:40.800 further in time here, I want to hunt a new state. 1:09:40.880 --> 1:09:42.760 Let's say I want to hunt in Illinois for white 1:09:42.760 --> 1:09:45.120 tails this year one. And if I'm going into that 1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:46.439 goal with hey, I want to be able shoot him 1:09:46.439 --> 1:09:48.600 ature buck, maybe for free, like I want to have 1:09:48.640 --> 1:09:51.599 a free permission. Um. So, first I'm gonna be looking 1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:53.400 at the map, like an aerial map of the state, 1:09:53.520 --> 1:09:56.680 and then you can start laying over things like, um 1:09:57.760 --> 1:10:00.160 hoping young record book data or something like that, which 1:10:00.160 --> 1:10:03.240 can tell you, you know, it's a rough estimate. Okay, Pope, 1:10:03.280 --> 1:10:05.960 young bucks, probably mature or whatever might whatever your goal 1:10:06.120 --> 1:10:08.240 might be. That's one way to say, Okay, it looks 1:10:08.320 --> 1:10:11.040 like this, this corner of Illinois looks like there's some 1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:14.960 disproportionately high quality hunting this little corner here. So then 1:10:14.960 --> 1:10:17.040 I can look at those specific counties. I'll pick a 1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:19.160 county Okay, I like the looks of you know what 1:10:19.360 --> 1:10:21.920 this area might be. And then I'll zoom in look 1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:24.320 at arials and try to find properties on arials that 1:10:24.479 --> 1:10:26.800 look like the right type of cover and habitat that 1:10:26.920 --> 1:10:29.320 could be high quality. And then you lay over the 1:10:29.360 --> 1:10:33.200 property ownership stuff and then pick out your specific places. Um. 1:10:33.760 --> 1:10:36.320 But then after you get the doors knocking, then you know, 1:10:36.720 --> 1:10:39.360 then it goes to everything I just said every conversation 1:10:39.360 --> 1:10:42.720 as far as it goes, utilize past connections, keep on 1:10:42.840 --> 1:10:45.680 going through the list, and then you'll hopefully, out of 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:48.400 fifteen or something, you hopefully will get one. And then 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:50.160 from there do everything we just talked about when it 1:10:50.200 --> 1:10:53.439 comes to keeping permission, and then keep building that rapport, 1:10:53.640 --> 1:10:57.720 keep that relationship up. I always then happen to say, 1:10:58.040 --> 1:11:00.400 happen of it, even if I get permission and I'm 1:11:00.439 --> 1:11:02.160 down there a few weeks or a few months later, 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:04.720 anyone else around here you think I should chat with, 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:06.640 you know, always trying to find another little couple of 1:11:06.680 --> 1:11:09.799 spots and just keep on branching from there. I always 1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:12.040 try to get In some states you don't need to 1:11:12.080 --> 1:11:14.800 do this, but in some states you need permission to 1:11:14.960 --> 1:11:18.439 go and track a wounded deer. So I'll try to. 1:11:18.640 --> 1:11:23.160 I mean, you can't cross over on the land. Can 1:11:23.200 --> 1:11:26.200 you do that anywhere? Yes, there are places where you 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:28.240 can go on the land. You do not have permission 1:11:28.280 --> 1:11:32.240 for the retrieve game retrieval. Really, I know. I know 1:11:32.320 --> 1:11:34.640 Iowa has that. I know Ohio and Michigan do not. 1:11:35.560 --> 1:11:38.080 So in Ohio, so I I don't know that any 1:11:38.120 --> 1:11:40.519 place I'll ever hear about is how you can't. I've 1:11:40.520 --> 1:11:43.160 never heard about how you can. I think if I 1:11:43.360 --> 1:11:46.080 if I remember the Iowa law correctly off the top 1:11:46.080 --> 1:11:47.519 of my head, I think you're just not supposed to 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:50.120 have your weapon with you. You need to leave it 1:11:50.160 --> 1:11:52.640 there across the line or so, you know what, now 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:55.080 I think about it, You're right. I remember being somewhere 1:11:55.080 --> 1:11:57.639 where someone told me that that you can go over 1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:02.080 the're talking about unting waterfowl. You can go over to 1:12:02.120 --> 1:12:03.439 get it, but you can't bring a shotgun with you, 1:12:03.680 --> 1:12:07.440 and you can't bring a dog. Yeah. So so sometimes 1:12:08.360 --> 1:12:10.880 I should do better at this. Sometimes I preemptively do it. 1:12:10.960 --> 1:12:14.240 Sometimes it's post But either way, if you preremptively go 1:12:14.360 --> 1:12:16.560 and talk to your neighbors and get permission, that's a 1:12:16.600 --> 1:12:18.960 great way to again, just get a foot in the door, 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:21.320 build a relationship, because then you're not even doing a 1:12:21.360 --> 1:12:23.679 big ask. Right, Hey, just just in case I happen 1:12:23.720 --> 1:12:26.120 to hunt Tom's place, just want to let you know 1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:28.719 I'm gonna be there, and wanted to just make sure 1:12:29.320 --> 1:12:30.800 if I happen to hit a deer that comes over 1:12:30.840 --> 1:12:32.439 here where they'd be okay if I come and to retreat, 1:12:32.520 --> 1:12:35.280 I'd be happy to let you know in the door. 1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:39.000 And that is a great trick and lots of times 1:12:39.040 --> 1:12:41.840 like yeah, yeah, sure, and then you can offer, hey, 1:12:41.880 --> 1:12:43.840 I'll I'll be sure to let you know, or I'll 1:12:43.840 --> 1:12:45.479 stop by before I do it, or something like that. 1:12:45.680 --> 1:12:47.880 It gives you another excuse to stop him and chit chat. 1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:50.040 Then you start hunting the edge of his property. Well, 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:54.120 don't do that just hoping one runs over, sing, go 1:12:54.240 --> 1:12:56.560 have another chat with put the tree stand right on 1:12:56.720 --> 1:12:59.720 the fence. But there's there's there's one particular property in 1:12:59.800 --> 1:13:02.840 mind that Um I'm just I've been working for like 1:13:03.000 --> 1:13:05.559 six years and someday I'm gonna get permission on this property, 1:13:05.600 --> 1:13:07.519 permission to shed hunt it. I have permission to retrieve 1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:11.599 deer on it. Um, and a really nice, really nice 1:13:11.600 --> 1:13:14.560 people that live there. Um, And you know, if it 1:13:14.600 --> 1:13:18.000 doesn't work out, that's fine, but maybe someday, you know, 1:13:18.120 --> 1:13:19.800 this will open up another opportunity to hunt. So I 1:13:19.920 --> 1:13:21.760 just keep on, keep on, trying to get to know 1:13:21.880 --> 1:13:24.719 more and more people. Um, and you might get permission. 1:13:24.720 --> 1:13:27.120 You might just make a new friend, which is great too. Um. 1:13:29.120 --> 1:13:30.880 And then I think it comes down to then just 1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:33.680 the work of it. I know so many people who 1:13:34.760 --> 1:13:36.719 to what we were talking about earlier. So many people 1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:39.040 complain about not having enough places to hunt or not 1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:40.840 having any word to hunt. And I think it does 1:13:40.920 --> 1:13:43.160 come around down to just work. Like you just need 1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:45.840 to do these kinds of things a lot. I even 1:13:45.880 --> 1:13:47.400 wish I did them more than I do them, because 1:13:47.400 --> 1:13:48.920 I still feel like I don't have enough places a 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:51.280 lot of time. So like going into two thousand and 1:13:51.320 --> 1:13:53.320 eighteen already, like just like last week, I was sitting 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:55.120 in my I know where it was, I don't know 1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:57.479 where it was, but I was sitting there, like telling myself, 1:13:57.640 --> 1:13:59.800 you gotta do better job getting more places next year, 1:13:59.840 --> 1:14:02.639 Like next year you are gonna have like ten new spots. 1:14:02.960 --> 1:14:04.639 You gotta do it. You gotta put in the work, 1:14:04.800 --> 1:14:07.160 you know. Just it's so easy to get lazy or 1:14:07.240 --> 1:14:10.000 to just be like, I'm okay with these two spots. 1:14:10.080 --> 1:14:12.519 It's fine. I think we've got we all have a 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:15.120 lot of things going on. Or maybe it just it's 1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:18.760 uncomfortable trying to find places or have these conversations. Um, 1:14:19.600 --> 1:14:22.080 but if you want it bad enough, you gotta work 1:14:22.120 --> 1:14:24.479 for I used to know a guy. He was a 1:14:24.520 --> 1:14:30.280 professional trapper, and he was explaining how he how he 1:14:30.439 --> 1:14:34.479 like applies all of his permission getting efforts when he looks, 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:36.720 and he used a lot of aerial photography, so this 1:14:36.880 --> 1:14:39.800 is I was thought in him before Google Earth was real, 1:14:40.160 --> 1:14:42.080 you know, commonly used for this, but he would use 1:14:42.120 --> 1:14:46.080 aerial photography and he had access to a ton ofment somehow, 1:14:47.520 --> 1:14:50.240 and a big part of his life and time was 1:14:50.320 --> 1:14:55.840 just like permissions right And he had identified he worked 1:14:55.880 --> 1:15:01.320 off of gas lines, so gas line right aways because 1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:03.600 in this sort of he's in this area where it 1:15:03.680 --> 1:15:09.200 was mixed like suburban rural interface and kind of like 1:15:09.320 --> 1:15:13.880 suburban communities up against egg land communities. But he had 1:15:14.080 --> 1:15:18.560 he identified power lines and gas line right aways is 1:15:18.640 --> 1:15:24.280 being these strips of like brushy habitat that he felt 1:15:24.400 --> 1:15:28.880 animals used as travel corridors and also he in his 1:15:29.000 --> 1:15:31.200 area was a big riparian area, so you had like 1:15:31.240 --> 1:15:34.080 a big river valley, and the river valley was low 1:15:34.200 --> 1:15:38.599 bottom lands that weren't developed and it was mostly timbered 1:15:38.680 --> 1:15:43.120 and brushy along those the river bottoms. So he had 1:15:43.120 --> 1:15:45.400 a couple of power lines, a gas line right away, 1:15:46.680 --> 1:15:51.320 and a riparian area. And he just systematically worked every 1:15:51.479 --> 1:15:54.960 piece of property that butted up against those things that 1:15:55.000 --> 1:15:59.120 he identified as being like travel corridors that he was 1:15:59.160 --> 1:16:01.000 interest Like, he hunt a lot of deer and had 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:03.640 a lot of deer hunting products that he marketed um 1:16:03.880 --> 1:16:08.160 but also fox and kyoe. He knew traveled those things 1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:12.400 that could like they were they were um funnels or 1:16:12.479 --> 1:16:15.000 channels for wildlife, and that was just how he devoted 1:16:15.040 --> 1:16:16.920 his time. Like he his goal was to be that 1:16:17.040 --> 1:16:19.479 he would just own both sides of everything like that 1:16:20.760 --> 1:16:25.599 to focus his activities. Ye, you had a good turkey 1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:30.599 permission to spring mm hmm. Yeah, there's nothing real exciting 1:16:30.640 --> 1:16:35.800 about it. But it was just like yeah, well, and 1:16:36.640 --> 1:16:38.960 it was almost too good to be true because we 1:16:39.120 --> 1:16:43.479 saw strutters in a field and then we were like, oh, 1:16:43.560 --> 1:16:46.400 let's go ask you know, we just drove of quarter 1:16:46.479 --> 1:16:48.880 mile down the road, pulled in. She's like, oh, yeah, 1:16:49.040 --> 1:16:52.080 have had it, you know. So we went back out 1:16:52.200 --> 1:16:55.800 and mof the first set up spoot him up into 1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:57.360 the trees. But then we chased him and caught up 1:16:57.360 --> 1:16:59.000 to him like an hour later, and we killed one 1:16:59.800 --> 1:17:03.240 and went back and we're hoping to just get to 1:17:03.439 --> 1:17:07.360 go back and say thanks and you know, build on 1:17:07.439 --> 1:17:10.560 the relationship and uh, maybe he gets sort of like 1:17:10.640 --> 1:17:14.240 an all access pass. So we're like, yeah, next time. 1:17:14.600 --> 1:17:16.840 She's like, yeah, just stopped by any time, please ask 1:17:17.000 --> 1:17:20.080 before you go, you know. So but that was kind 1:17:20.080 --> 1:17:23.679 of like the thing that supposed he doesn't happen anymore though, yeah, 1:17:25.800 --> 1:17:27.200 you know. And I was saying at the beginning, how 1:17:27.280 --> 1:17:29.200 the good old days are over. Everything's different now, but 1:17:29.280 --> 1:17:34.080 now they come to think of it, last winter, I 1:17:34.160 --> 1:17:36.000 just want to take my kids small game hunting around 1:17:36.040 --> 1:17:39.280 where I grew up. And I called my mom to 1:17:39.439 --> 1:17:44.400 like check around for me. Right, We're just people and 1:17:45.720 --> 1:17:49.760 it was just there. We just had places to go. No. 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.360 I heard a story while I was in Wisconsin. Is uh, 1:17:53.360 --> 1:17:56.599 like I think the guy he just he started talking. 1:17:56.640 --> 1:17:59.560 He stopped in somewhere, started talking to the to the 1:17:59.760 --> 1:18:03.800 hite if I think, and she's like, no, no, no, no, 1:18:04.080 --> 1:18:07.280 husband doesn't let anybody hunting here, doesn't let anybody hunt here. No, no, 1:18:07.320 --> 1:18:10.120 no no. He's like, well, you know, could it please 1:18:10.240 --> 1:18:11.800 just you know, She's like, yeah, I come back at 1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:14.320 five or whatever. So it comes back. He's like, no, 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:16.040 I really don't let anybody hunting here. And I think 1:18:16.040 --> 1:18:17.760 it was the same thing he had, like someone else 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:19.760 hunting there. But he's like, you know, I just kept 1:18:19.800 --> 1:18:22.320 talking to the guy and then sure enough he's like, 1:18:22.520 --> 1:18:25.280 well that guy doesn't really hunt here that much. I 1:18:25.360 --> 1:18:27.680 think you can hunt like this little corner over here, 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:30.360 there's like the fifteen acres and he just and it 1:18:30.479 --> 1:18:32.480 was basically all just from a little bit of persistence 1:18:32.560 --> 1:18:34.560 and then just from having a long conversation. And it 1:18:34.680 --> 1:18:37.200 was only one who it was two because he came 1:18:37.280 --> 1:18:39.920 back in the evening, you know, but he's been he said, 1:18:39.920 --> 1:18:43.880 he's been hunting the place for years. Now. When you 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:45.559 say it came back in the evening, you to talk 1:18:45.600 --> 1:18:48.840 to the husband, because yeah, he wasn't there at the moment. 1:18:49.600 --> 1:18:51.920 This summer, I was trying to scout some public land 1:18:51.960 --> 1:18:55.599 in southern Michigan and on my little landownership map I had. 1:18:56.680 --> 1:18:58.960 There was one access point to the backside of this 1:18:59.040 --> 1:19:02.080 big chunk of public that looked like very far away 1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:04.400 from everywhere else, and you could get into some pretty 1:19:04.439 --> 1:19:06.160 gnarly stuff. So I thought, I really want to try 1:19:06.200 --> 1:19:08.040 to sculpt that place out. So I go following this 1:19:08.160 --> 1:19:10.720 map and I turned onto the road what looks to 1:19:10.760 --> 1:19:13.280 be a public road on this map that leads to 1:19:13.439 --> 1:19:16.080 a little parking lot. It's just a little two track, 1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:19.639 and it looks it goes up next to this guy's yard. 1:19:19.840 --> 1:19:21.960 And I was just like, man, I don't know, but 1:19:22.120 --> 1:19:24.360 the map says it's good. So I'm like, all right, 1:19:24.400 --> 1:19:27.280 I'm gonna drive back there. So driving him, driving down 1:19:27.360 --> 1:19:29.599 the road, and I get maybe half mile down the road, 1:19:29.680 --> 1:19:31.840 and I see no trespassing signs on either side of 1:19:31.840 --> 1:19:34.559 the road. And then you get another like quarter mile 1:19:34.640 --> 1:19:36.240 down the road, and then you see like skull and 1:19:36.280 --> 1:19:38.760 crossbones on the trees, and then you get a little 1:19:39.320 --> 1:19:41.719 farther down and there's a skeleton, like a fake skeleton, 1:19:41.840 --> 1:19:44.200 holding a fake a r rifle. And then it says 1:19:44.240 --> 1:19:46.240 if you can read this year in my scope, and 1:19:46.280 --> 1:19:49.439 I'm like, all right, this definitely seems like I'm this 1:19:49.840 --> 1:19:52.200 must not be the right place. So as I'm seeing 1:19:52.200 --> 1:19:54.240 all this, I'm like, okay, I need to find somewhere turnaround. 1:19:54.680 --> 1:19:57.240 And then right when like I see this and I realized, okay, 1:19:57.240 --> 1:19:59.920 I gotta get out of here, a golf cart comes 1:20:00.120 --> 1:20:02.320 flying down the road right at men. I'm like, oh jeez, 1:20:03.240 --> 1:20:05.640 here we go. So the guy pulls up and I 1:20:05.760 --> 1:20:10.160 bring down my window and at first he's like fiery 1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:11.880 and like, what the hell are you doing down here? 1:20:11.880 --> 1:20:13.160 And I was like, you know, I'm looking at my map, 1:20:13.280 --> 1:20:15.000 so I was looking for this piece of public land 1:20:15.040 --> 1:20:17.080 access it looked like this took me right to it, 1:20:17.840 --> 1:20:20.200 and I mean, I'm so sorry. Is this, you know, 1:20:20.280 --> 1:20:22.360 the private road? And he's like yeah, blah blad. He's 1:20:22.439 --> 1:20:23.960 he's real fired at first, but I just trying to 1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:25.960 be polite and explain my situation, so I'll get out 1:20:25.960 --> 1:20:28.639 of here right away. I'm so sorry, um. And then 1:20:30.240 --> 1:20:32.960 we got like a little bit of like momentum. He's like, well, 1:20:33.160 --> 1:20:35.000 I can understand the why you came in here. It 1:20:35.120 --> 1:20:37.200 used to be a public road, but there are so 1:20:37.280 --> 1:20:40.400 many guys coming down here and leaving crap. And someone 1:20:40.520 --> 1:20:42.040 left a dead deer on the side of the road 1:20:42.040 --> 1:20:43.600 and all this kind of stuff. I got the you know, 1:20:43.720 --> 1:20:45.759 state to shut it down or something, so now it's private. 1:20:45.920 --> 1:20:47.479 You can't you can't come down this road, you can't 1:20:47.479 --> 1:20:51.680 access from here anymore. But we just started talking and 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:53.640 we just talked and talked and talked and talked, and 1:20:54.240 --> 1:20:56.560 finally he's he's talking about how it used to be 1:20:56.640 --> 1:20:58.639 people that hunted here, and I was thinking about, Okay, 1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:00.720 maybe I could get just from mission to drive down 1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:02.320 the road and park in the old parking lot and 1:21:02.360 --> 1:21:04.640 be able to access the back of the public land. Um, 1:21:05.000 --> 1:21:07.519 maybe the conversation will take us there in the back 1:21:07.520 --> 1:21:09.760 of my mind and where we're chatting about things. And 1:21:09.800 --> 1:21:13.479 then he's talking about back in like the seventies when 1:21:13.520 --> 1:21:15.879 he used to hunt, and he's talking about his old blinds, 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:18.120 and then somehow we get to the chores he's doing 1:21:18.200 --> 1:21:20.960 these days, and then we're talking about how things are 1:21:21.000 --> 1:21:23.200 with his wife and how he wishes warmer in their house, 1:21:23.280 --> 1:21:25.639 and just it was a long time when we went 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:28.400 everywhere with him, and I was just kind of listening, 1:21:28.800 --> 1:21:31.479 you know, And I don't want to sound like I'm 1:21:31.479 --> 1:21:35.080 always like conniving to try to get I was just 1:21:35.120 --> 1:21:37.240 gonna bring up not a bad way, but like the 1:21:37.439 --> 1:21:41.120 here you are, you're like, uh yeah, you're like a manipulator. 1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:44.200 I don't know, I'm not it's not you, not you everyone, 1:21:44.560 --> 1:21:46.880 I just it's just you're. You're there, Like here's a guy, 1:21:47.080 --> 1:21:49.200 you want something from him, he doesn't want anything from you. 1:21:50.240 --> 1:21:52.160 And like that's like part of the the reason you 1:21:52.200 --> 1:21:54.640 don't want to go and bang on the door. Like 1:21:54.720 --> 1:21:56.080 if you were showing up and you're like, I'm gonna 1:21:56.080 --> 1:21:57.439 go bang on that guy's door and give him a 1:21:57.520 --> 1:22:01.559 thousand bucks, you'd be so excited to go do it, right, 1:22:01.720 --> 1:22:03.360 We're like I gotta go bang on his door and 1:22:03.479 --> 1:22:06.719 bother him to ask him for something. And I don't 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:10.920 like asking people for stuff, so it makes it uncomfortable. 1:22:11.800 --> 1:22:15.080 And I think I think the I think if you 1:22:15.240 --> 1:22:18.360 see an opportunity or if you're if you're having a 1:22:18.400 --> 1:22:22.760 conversation with somebody and it seems natural too if an 1:22:22.760 --> 1:22:25.559 opportunity rises, I don't think there's any harm in letting 1:22:25.560 --> 1:22:28.200 the conversation go there or ask or just you know, 1:22:29.280 --> 1:22:32.000 sometimes nothing comes of it. Sometimes like that he said 1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:33.920 no right off the bat, you still sit and talk 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:36.080 to him, Yeah, because then it's a it's the plight 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:39.640 thing to do in many cases be sometimes just interesting conversation. 1:22:39.840 --> 1:22:42.559 And then see, like in this case, we talked all 1:22:42.640 --> 1:22:45.080 over from every different side of the world, every different 1:22:45.640 --> 1:22:47.479 possible thing we could have talked about, and somehow got 1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:49.320 to the point that he's not feeling so good about 1:22:49.320 --> 1:22:52.120 cutting wood anymore. And I hear him saying, I was like, man, 1:22:52.120 --> 1:22:55.360 I'm I like cutting wood. Would would that be something 1:22:55.360 --> 1:22:57.680 if I ever helped out, you know, cutting would um? 1:22:58.640 --> 1:22:59.840 You know, I'd be happy to help you out. That 1:22:59.880 --> 1:23:01.280 may be I could just drive down here in park, 1:23:01.320 --> 1:23:03.400 get the parking lot here, may maybe hunting a couple 1:23:03.400 --> 1:23:07.920 of times he's like, now we're talking, Yes we are. 1:23:08.800 --> 1:23:11.000 And then and then come to find out he's not 1:23:11.080 --> 1:23:13.519 hunting his property anymore. You can hunt my property too. 1:23:14.120 --> 1:23:16.800 So I just have countless examples of that kind of 1:23:16.840 --> 1:23:18.320 thing where if you're willing to help out, or if 1:23:18.400 --> 1:23:21.479 you got in there, yeah, um, and he didn't shoot 1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:23.200 me and and all that good stuff. It went down 1:23:23.200 --> 1:23:25.599 pretty well. Stove wood. Not yet, it's gonna be after 1:23:25.720 --> 1:23:29.000 hunting season, not gonna cut some wood. So yeah, so 1:23:29.080 --> 1:23:31.840 you just gotta let those things go where they may. Um. 1:23:32.479 --> 1:23:35.519 And then keep after every year I'm doing something like that, 1:23:35.560 --> 1:23:42.040 trying to find more spots. Yeah, gift given expressions of gratitude. 1:23:44.200 --> 1:23:47.120 I'd like to bring up like the the what like 1:23:47.360 --> 1:23:50.720 non traditional methods and then not really methods. But I 1:23:50.840 --> 1:23:53.639 just think, like, Uh, what's this saying about? You gotta 1:23:53.640 --> 1:24:01.040 be on the dance floor, right, Ryan, help me out? Uh, 1:24:02.240 --> 1:24:05.519 you ought to be on the dance floor. It's kind 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:08.200 of like when opportunity knocks, you know, to make Hay 1:24:08.280 --> 1:24:10.800 when the sunshine or whatever you gotta dance on the 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:14.840 music is playing, Maybe make Hay when the sun shines. No, 1:24:15.120 --> 1:24:18.439 it's definitely not. I can't kill him on the couch. 1:24:18.680 --> 1:24:21.640 But if you're not aware of the situation, it's not 1:24:21.680 --> 1:24:23.800 gonna come to you, right, if you're not just like 1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:28.240 thinking about or sort of like and wo wou terms 1:24:28.360 --> 1:24:30.479 like have it, you know, like put it out to 1:24:30.560 --> 1:24:34.640 the universe that you're looking for hunting permissions, right, Just 1:24:34.760 --> 1:24:36.760 like I just feel like after a couple of years 1:24:36.840 --> 1:24:40.360 in Bozeman, Right, I'm new to Bozeman and I haven't 1:24:40.520 --> 1:24:42.920 banged on any doors. I haven't really like made it 1:24:43.120 --> 1:24:44.680 like a point. I haven't done all these things that 1:24:44.720 --> 1:24:48.280 Mark's talking about but just sort of through you know, 1:24:48.600 --> 1:24:51.519 talking to people and chatting them up, and my kids 1:24:51.640 --> 1:24:54.120 making friends with other kids, and then I meet their parents. 1:24:54.240 --> 1:24:57.760 And the next in the beginning was social connections. Yeah, 1:24:57.840 --> 1:24:59.720 but yeah, I felt like we needed to retouch on 1:24:59.840 --> 1:25:02.400 that and just make sure that we got touch on 1:25:02.479 --> 1:25:04.760 the dude with the letter. Yeah, I got his letter 1:25:04.840 --> 1:25:07.840 pulled up. Um, so get done with what you're doing, 1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:11.280 and it walk us through that appreciation. I think it's 1:25:11.760 --> 1:25:14.439 like people get to know you over the course of 1:25:14.439 --> 1:25:19.639 a few years, and I'm like, you know, ya, tell 1:25:19.720 --> 1:25:22.640 us and his wife after they put their kids to 1:25:22.720 --> 1:25:27.960 bad We'll sit up in butcher dear until they do 1:25:28.120 --> 1:25:30.800 it all themselves. And that's almost all they eat. Isn't 1:25:30.840 --> 1:25:32.679 that amazing? Oh they have him come out and hunt 1:25:32.720 --> 1:25:35.360 my place. Yeah, that's the type of person that I 1:25:35.400 --> 1:25:37.800 would let hunt my place, if I let people hunt 1:25:37.880 --> 1:25:41.000 my place, because hey appreciate it. I want to point 1:25:41.040 --> 1:25:43.600 out that my brother, My brother has a sign on 1:25:43.760 --> 1:25:47.360 his property which isn't big because ten acres and his science. 1:25:47.720 --> 1:25:50.960 What's to say. I think it says trespensers welcome. Yeah, 1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:57.680 it's great, Um no not, I mean yeah, I mean 1:25:57.720 --> 1:26:01.000 appreciation is good. But but I just just just keeping 1:26:01.080 --> 1:26:05.680 your just being open, you know, in all situations to 1:26:05.800 --> 1:26:10.000 like something like that coming your way. Yeah, but you're 1:26:10.040 --> 1:26:12.720 kind of talking about like Lavy and pag and stuff though, 1:26:12.920 --> 1:26:15.920 now about putting it out there to the atmosphere and 1:26:16.000 --> 1:26:18.280 stuff like that to the universe. So do you put 1:26:18.320 --> 1:26:20.720 it out there to the universe? Well, it's like the 1:26:21.240 --> 1:26:23.640 it's just have it always in the back of your 1:26:23.680 --> 1:26:26.040 mind and if you happen to have an opportunity to rise, 1:26:26.120 --> 1:26:29.800 you kind of go there. But some people might see 1:26:29.880 --> 1:26:32.879 some of the flat tire and strike up a conversation 1:26:32.960 --> 1:26:34.960 with him, help him out, and never think to mention 1:26:35.040 --> 1:26:36.519 that you're looking for a place to deer hunt. But 1:26:36.600 --> 1:26:38.320 I am always thinking about that kind of thing, So 1:26:39.000 --> 1:26:41.960 I just kind of offhand mention it and it let 1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:43.800 do that happening. Maybe? Is that kind of I mean, 1:26:43.880 --> 1:26:47.040 like just kind of allowed networking and the karma of 1:26:47.080 --> 1:26:49.760 the universe allowed to happen, but also kind of don't 1:26:49.880 --> 1:26:51.800 you can get all over with it. I just think 1:26:51.840 --> 1:26:54.080 that it's like you don't have to go be on 1:26:54.240 --> 1:26:56.840 doors to get a hunting permission? Is my? Is my? Like, 1:26:57.360 --> 1:26:58.840 like you were so surprised today I remember I was 1:26:58.840 --> 1:27:05.200 telling about how my dad is a bowl hunter, right, yeah, yeah, 1:27:05.240 --> 1:27:08.560 it was well he was he is still a home inspector, 1:27:09.000 --> 1:27:13.200 and through his trade, he's gotten all kinds of hunting permissions, 1:27:13.680 --> 1:27:15.679 you know, because he's just he's like, but I mean sure, 1:27:15.760 --> 1:27:17.760 then that's sort of like almost like built. It's like 1:27:17.840 --> 1:27:21.280 the perfect way, Like you're in someone's house looking at 1:27:21.320 --> 1:27:23.640 the back, put it out to the universe. That's that 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:27.160 you're you're out there interacting with I know. But again 1:27:27.200 --> 1:27:30.360 it's like nontradious, a little bit nontraditional, right, But I 1:27:30.479 --> 1:27:33.760 just think that in whatever whatever thing you do as 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:37.680 a living or out there daily, there's probably a way 1:27:37.720 --> 1:27:41.080 that you could network or get hunting permissions. You know. 1:27:41.240 --> 1:27:43.160 I got in your home area. I got a handful 1:27:43.160 --> 1:27:47.240 of friends that are chiropractors, and they talk of them. Yeah, 1:27:47.640 --> 1:27:50.200 how do you have more than one chiropractor friend? Because 1:27:51.080 --> 1:27:53.600 I actually a good explanation for this. A group of 1:27:53.680 --> 1:27:57.040 guys all met each other going to chiropractor school, a 1:27:57.080 --> 1:28:00.160 school in Iowa, um, and they're all really in the 1:28:00.240 --> 1:28:02.479 hunting and I then became friends with one of them, 1:28:02.680 --> 1:28:04.840 who then introduced me to the others. So there's a 1:28:04.880 --> 1:28:07.519 group of three of them that are all chiropractors because 1:28:07.520 --> 1:28:10.040 of school and now they're some of my best hunting buddies. Well, 1:28:10.760 --> 1:28:13.360 they see forty people a day and they chat with 1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:15.920 them for fifteen twenty minutes, and every day they talked 1:28:15.960 --> 1:28:18.040 to every one of those people about hunting in some 1:28:18.160 --> 1:28:20.240 way if they happen to be No, there's a connection there, 1:28:21.560 --> 1:28:23.680 and they have all sorts of different permission because of 1:28:23.680 --> 1:28:26.040 those types of things. So whether you're a doctor or 1:28:26.800 --> 1:28:29.800 I don't know whatever, sometimes you can take you avangela. Yeah, 1:28:29.920 --> 1:28:32.720 if you were a guy, if you were a tractor 1:28:33.200 --> 1:28:40.920 salesman or a grain buyer. No, yeah, home inspector, I 1:28:41.000 --> 1:28:42.960 have the I have the worst job for it because 1:28:43.000 --> 1:28:45.120 I just sit in my home office all by myself 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:48.759 every day. You never talked to anyone. I read flagged 1:28:48.800 --> 1:28:51.280 your foundation. Here, you see this crack, you know what? 1:28:51.400 --> 1:28:58.760 That's from that whitetail buck over there, that property. Let all. Yeah, 1:28:58.760 --> 1:29:04.720 I talked about the letter because this is unconventional. I 1:29:04.840 --> 1:29:07.519 used to think it's just next level, it's next level, 1:29:07.680 --> 1:29:10.920 but this is like really, this is this is just 1:29:12.720 --> 1:29:14.640 this guy had we We got a letter after we 1:29:14.680 --> 1:29:16.599 talked about how we're gonna We talked about how we're 1:29:16.600 --> 1:29:19.560 gonna talk about getting permissions and had a lot of 1:29:19.920 --> 1:29:24.559 a handful of enthusiastic uh emails coming from people encouraging 1:29:24.600 --> 1:29:28.000 us to have the conversation. And one guy shared with 1:29:28.240 --> 1:29:32.320 us his strategy, and his strategy is not like anything 1:29:32.560 --> 1:29:38.040 that we've touched on here, and it seems, on one hand, 1:29:39.479 --> 1:29:42.599 a bit much. On the other hand, it just seems 1:29:42.640 --> 1:29:45.880 like a really great way for those places where you 1:29:45.960 --> 1:29:48.320 just can't get it in, you can't figure out a 1:29:48.400 --> 1:29:51.960 good in. Yeah, and he wanted us to share this 1:29:52.120 --> 1:29:56.320 to help folks out. His name is Zeric, He's from 1:29:56.360 --> 1:30:01.560 the southeast Zerk. Should we just read the letter? Do 1:30:01.640 --> 1:30:05.400 you want to kind of give it a read what 1:30:05.560 --> 1:30:07.599 he wrote, read how he teed it up, and then 1:30:07.720 --> 1:30:09.560 and then walk us through the letter. He's not like, 1:30:09.800 --> 1:30:21.080 I really like this guy's approach. Oh yeah, uh new hunter, Yeah, 1:30:21.200 --> 1:30:23.200 and relatively new hunter says, and this is just his 1:30:23.320 --> 1:30:27.519 email to us, just sort of just saying, hey, what's up, um, 1:30:28.000 --> 1:30:30.840 listen to listen to what I got Because I'm relatively 1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:34.080 new hunter, forty two years old, but I have access 1:30:34.080 --> 1:30:36.080 to over a hundred acres of family land within an 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:38.640 hour of my home. To expand my hunting locations to 1:30:38.720 --> 1:30:41.080 within minutes of my home, I developed a boiler plate 1:30:41.200 --> 1:30:43.479 letter that I customized for attempts to gain access to 1:30:43.560 --> 1:30:46.519 properties that I scout through online county tax maps that 1:30:46.640 --> 1:30:49.080 may produce hunting opportunities. When here talking about the online 1:30:49.280 --> 1:30:52.519 county tax map, he's talking about what used to be 1:30:52.600 --> 1:30:55.120 known as a plat book or a PLAT map, whereas 1:30:55.160 --> 1:30:59.400 public information who's paying taxes on what? So you can 1:30:59.439 --> 1:31:04.200 go down two at the township level in in in 1:31:04.280 --> 1:31:06.840 the east where you have township level politics, you go 1:31:06.920 --> 1:31:10.720 to your township, your county and just request a map 1:31:10.800 --> 1:31:14.080 and that will have all the land parceled out. And 1:31:14.160 --> 1:31:15.920 this reminds me of something we need to talk about. 1:31:17.760 --> 1:31:20.160 Not quite man, just so much stuff you can get 1:31:20.200 --> 1:31:23.479 out of these. You can use these to find places 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:28.760 you don't need permissions, but there aren't like actually public land. 1:31:28.760 --> 1:31:33.400 It's hard for me to explain, mhm, yeah, really quick, 1:31:33.520 --> 1:31:35.599 just to have the places are they're not like part 1:31:35.760 --> 1:31:38.720 like they're not like state forest, national forests, but just 1:31:38.800 --> 1:31:43.719 like weird little hidie holes that are that are places 1:31:43.760 --> 1:31:45.840 you could go hunt, but there would never be recognized 1:31:45.880 --> 1:31:48.160 as such off plat maps by looking at who's paying 1:31:48.200 --> 1:31:51.080 the taxes in it. But go ahead, Mark, just want 1:31:51.120 --> 1:31:54.000 to interject. The plat maps you can get them from 1:31:54.040 --> 1:31:56.439 your township hall or whatever. But you can also get 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:59.439 digital versions very often if you just google the name 1:31:59.479 --> 1:32:01.640 of your count and then g I S map. So 1:32:02.200 --> 1:32:05.760 Kent County g I S map And most counties have 1:32:06.360 --> 1:32:09.240 an online version of that plat map where you can 1:32:09.320 --> 1:32:12.559 see the aerial and the property lines and then click 1:32:12.640 --> 1:32:14.960 on the property and get all their information too. So 1:32:15.600 --> 1:32:18.960 so go on. So that's what he's talking about. Yeah, 1:32:19.320 --> 1:32:21.080 and it's close to what you can get on on 1:32:21.479 --> 1:32:23.719 X right, and you probably get a little bit more info. 1:32:23.920 --> 1:32:27.679 I don't know if you actually get get phone number, 1:32:27.720 --> 1:32:30.760 you can get home address name, you can get some 1:32:31.280 --> 1:32:34.320 property information. It's a great tool man. I used to 1:32:34.320 --> 1:32:36.680 I used to live on those things. Oh, here's my 1:32:36.920 --> 1:32:40.280 here's the quote. I was trying to remember opportunity dances 1:32:40.640 --> 1:32:44.479 with those already on the dance floor. That was good. 1:32:44.600 --> 1:32:46.720 I like that, all right, all right, So here's this guy. 1:32:47.160 --> 1:32:50.439 He gets on some plat maps around his area. Um, 1:32:51.960 --> 1:32:54.720 I've been complimented, complimented by the Oh I'm not reading 1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:56.360 the letter. It's this is the what he wrote to us. 1:32:56.760 --> 1:32:59.720 He's been complimented by the professionalism of the letter by 1:33:00.040 --> 1:33:01.920 end owners and managers that receive it always get a 1:33:01.960 --> 1:33:03.920 response because of how it is laid out and what 1:33:04.080 --> 1:33:07.000 is what it offers. I was even contacted by one 1:33:07.040 --> 1:33:09.200 owner that said that even though he could not permit 1:33:09.280 --> 1:33:11.439 other hunters on the property because his brother hunts it, 1:33:11.840 --> 1:33:13.640 he wanted to call me and say that through the 1:33:13.760 --> 1:33:16.360 years he has received several requests from people to hunt 1:33:16.400 --> 1:33:18.720 the property and that he had never received a letter 1:33:18.800 --> 1:33:21.880 so well written concerning that subject. Man, this dude's a 1:33:21.920 --> 1:33:25.280 writer and he can pitch himself. This guy is onto something. 1:33:25.560 --> 1:33:31.840 Are you paying attention Mark Kenyon? He goes on to say, 1:33:32.000 --> 1:33:35.120 I'm no means arrogantly promoting my writing abilities. I'm more 1:33:35.120 --> 1:33:37.080 of a technical writer than a storyteller. But in this 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:40.439 case I think would have developed gets the job done, 1:33:40.800 --> 1:33:43.960 or at least gets the owner's attention. Listeners are pissing 1:33:44.080 --> 1:33:48.400 themselves with anticipation. My letter highlights my intentions, what I'm 1:33:48.479 --> 1:33:51.439 offering in return a little about me, and does it 1:33:51.520 --> 1:33:54.200 in a way that visually conveys my message and shows 1:33:54.240 --> 1:33:56.600 I'm an individual that cares for the environment and is 1:33:56.640 --> 1:34:00.240 a responsible hunter. Not terribly long, but I believe it's 1:34:00.320 --> 1:34:02.400 not too much that the reader is overloaded and not 1:34:02.560 --> 1:34:04.920 too short what it would appear, but it was hastily 1:34:05.000 --> 1:34:07.080 typed out just to gain access to as much property 1:34:07.120 --> 1:34:09.640 as possible. He goes on to say, they just want 1:34:09.680 --> 1:34:12.679 to share the letter to help us help you guys 1:34:12.720 --> 1:34:16.479 out and get more permissions, and he also includes a 1:34:19.560 --> 1:34:23.879 the he's from North Carolina and the North Carolina Wildlife 1:34:23.920 --> 1:34:28.080 Resource Commission UM has a permission slip that they have 1:34:28.360 --> 1:34:30.560 on their website that you can just print out that 1:34:30.720 --> 1:34:36.519 is basically a release release hold harmless and indemnification indemnification 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:39.800 produced by the n r A. So he attaches that 1:34:39.920 --> 1:34:42.400 in there too, to be like, hey you can, I'll 1:34:42.439 --> 1:34:45.519 sign this. You sign it. And then, because we live 1:34:45.560 --> 1:34:49.160 in a litigious world, he's given them a yeah. He's 1:34:49.200 --> 1:34:52.880 like a liability release because yeah, especially people that don't 1:34:52.920 --> 1:34:56.200 know much about hunting, and this guy's UM. I thought 1:34:56.280 --> 1:34:59.080 we got out of this that he Yeah, he was 1:34:59.120 --> 1:35:01.160 like looking for stuff closer to home. I think he 1:35:01.360 --> 1:35:03.760 was like looking to map. You can tell he's looking 1:35:03.800 --> 1:35:07.439 at spots sometimes that are small they're kind of yeah, 1:35:07.600 --> 1:35:11.320 closer to uh you know, urban zones, and uh so 1:35:11.439 --> 1:35:16.040 people might not be you know, talking about hunting much 1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:20.880 requests he's because he's looking at this little chunks man 1:35:21.000 --> 1:35:25.040 like little you know. I got the sense, you know, 1:35:25.120 --> 1:35:27.759 like he wouldn't be overlooking some little twenty or thirty 1:35:27.800 --> 1:35:31.400 acre wedge land somewhere, you know, which is another good point, 1:35:31.560 --> 1:35:34.479 Like that's another good way to find spots is sometimes 1:35:34.520 --> 1:35:37.000 those are the best, most likely places you can't get permission. 1:35:37.320 --> 1:35:39.920 Don't get over zealous and try to get the spot, 1:35:40.200 --> 1:35:44.400 take the ten in the twenty and um yeah, all right, 1:35:44.439 --> 1:35:48.240 go on ni um. That's about all he had to say. 1:35:48.960 --> 1:35:52.600 So I'll go to read his letter. I feel that 1:35:52.640 --> 1:35:55.639 the letter starts out almost kind of a little creepy 1:35:57.920 --> 1:36:00.800 because he's sort of saying like, and have I been 1:36:00.880 --> 1:36:07.599 watching you? No? Yeah, a little bit um because again, 1:36:07.640 --> 1:36:10.519 if but it obviously works if you're not familiar, because 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:12.280 I think there's plenty of people that probably buy a 1:36:12.360 --> 1:36:14.559 piece of property, or you buy a house that sits 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:17.639 on even if it's a quarter eco lot. And maybe besides, 1:36:17.680 --> 1:36:22.320 when you flipped through like the signing all the papers 1:36:22.360 --> 1:36:24.680 at the mortgage house, right. I was like, the only 1:36:24.760 --> 1:36:27.000 time you looked at the plat map, right, that that 1:36:27.200 --> 1:36:29.439 came in that package. Right, A lot of people maybe 1:36:29.479 --> 1:36:32.120 have never really looked at like an aerial view of 1:36:32.280 --> 1:36:36.439 their property. Right, So he includes it in there, and 1:36:37.080 --> 1:36:39.600 and it has an outline of his property. So is 1:36:39.640 --> 1:36:41.320 it too much to kind of say what he says 1:36:41.920 --> 1:36:47.200 for you to tell us what he says? No? Okay, Yeah, 1:36:47.479 --> 1:36:50.360 he says, Hello, my name is Eric. I'm contacting you 1:36:50.439 --> 1:36:53.880 concerning the property you own on x y Z Road 1:36:54.120 --> 1:36:58.120 south of x y Z City in x y Z County, 1:36:58.280 --> 1:37:03.880 North Carolina, specifically parcel number six seven. And then there's 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:07.160 a little map and the little parcels outlined, and then 1:37:07.240 --> 1:37:10.280 he even has like a um what you call like 1:37:10.280 --> 1:37:13.160 a little bubble, you know, it's a little arrow pointing, Yes, 1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:15.719 this is your property. This is the one I'm asking about. 1:37:16.120 --> 1:37:18.519 I take it back. That's that creepy dot's strike use 1:37:18.520 --> 1:37:23.639 creepy mark. That's that creepy diligent. Yeah, fine line between 1:37:23.680 --> 1:37:27.559 creepy and diligence. And like we've been talking about, he's 1:37:27.600 --> 1:37:31.599 eliminating the gray area, right, They're like, what of my places? 1:37:32.240 --> 1:37:37.000 Very very likely amitating gray? This dude, gets that done. 1:37:37.880 --> 1:37:40.840 This forty seven point eight seven acre parcel appears to 1:37:40.880 --> 1:37:42.839 be a mix of pine and hardwood stands and mayhold 1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:45.800 habitat for wild turkey, deer, and small game. I would 1:37:45.840 --> 1:37:47.800 like to enquire about the possibility to scout and legally 1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:51.320 hunt his parcel. In return for the opportunity to access 1:37:51.400 --> 1:37:54.439 is parcel to both scout to legally hunt, I'm offering 1:37:54.479 --> 1:37:58.040 a few items to help preserve the property. First would 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:00.679 be marking the property per the n C Oldline standard 1:38:00.760 --> 1:38:03.280 was purple paint along the public roadways to indicate the 1:38:03.320 --> 1:38:06.840 properties private. And then no unauthorized entry or hunting is allowed. 1:38:07.120 --> 1:38:11.280 Talk about service and yourself and acting as though you're 1:38:11.320 --> 1:38:16.680 servicing someone else, he's saying. And not only that, but 1:38:16.840 --> 1:38:20.439 I will go and let other guys know, buzz off, 1:38:21.000 --> 1:38:24.400 this is now my hunt spot. And they explains the 1:38:24.479 --> 1:38:27.720 purple paint law how it came to be, and there's 1:38:27.720 --> 1:38:30.439 even a little diagram of like where the purple paint 1:38:30.520 --> 1:38:32.639 needs to be on the tree, how high off off 1:38:32.720 --> 1:38:34.360 the ground. Yeah, and this is good because a lot 1:38:34.400 --> 1:38:36.960 of people are like, man, you know again, No, I 1:38:37.040 --> 1:38:38.560 need to keep half dogging on the guy. But I 1:38:38.680 --> 1:38:40.200 like at all, because here's the guy. He might not 1:38:40.320 --> 1:38:43.200 even realize that that's what you're supposed to do to 1:38:43.360 --> 1:38:45.599 mark it off limits. So now all of a sudden 1:38:45.600 --> 1:38:48.519 he's like, oh, I should I guess I'd better do that. 1:38:48.760 --> 1:38:50.599 I didn't know I needed to do that, and now 1:38:50.720 --> 1:38:54.479 here's this fine young gentleman offering to do it for me. 1:38:54.760 --> 1:38:58.760 He continues to um explain that the marking per the 1:38:58.840 --> 1:39:01.920 Landowner Protection Act will give Wildlife officers the ability to 1:39:02.080 --> 1:39:05.719 directly address, insite anyone on the property without written permission 1:39:05.760 --> 1:39:11.360 to access or hunt the property. He's educating. Second, this 1:39:11.479 --> 1:39:14.519 parcel is large and could have unauthorized entry on the 1:39:14.600 --> 1:39:19.920 property and unwanted illegal dumping. Should we explain that most 1:39:19.960 --> 1:39:22.120 people know what that is, right, Yeah, people like trying 1:39:22.120 --> 1:39:23.839 to get rid of an old couch and a broken 1:39:24.200 --> 1:39:28.519 washing machine. Yeah yeah, never on. This isn't entirely bad 1:39:28.560 --> 1:39:30.400 because I've killed a lot of rabbits out of that stuff. 1:39:30.479 --> 1:39:32.840 Rabbits like that stuff. For some reason, they can't come 1:39:32.920 --> 1:39:34.800 up with five and a half bucks to take it 1:39:34.880 --> 1:39:38.479 to the city dump. Yeah yeah, the washing machine, It's like, 1:39:38.600 --> 1:39:40.560 all right, it's good rabbit habit. Tab When you just 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:45.160 see like ten white garbage bags. They're eventually gonna ripped apart, 1:39:45.240 --> 1:39:47.559 you know. Oh it's when I recently took my wife 1:39:47.640 --> 1:39:50.840 on the last holiday season. I took my wife on 1:39:50.920 --> 1:39:53.400 stot of a tour of all my former hunting spots 1:39:54.600 --> 1:39:57.439 and just driving around in a vehicle being like, oh, yeah, 1:39:57.520 --> 1:39:59.639 one time we and another time and you wouldn't believed 1:39:59.640 --> 1:40:02.200 that what in here? And that after a couple of hours, 1:40:02.280 --> 1:40:04.880 my wife was like, I just cannot believe all the 1:40:05.000 --> 1:40:08.240 appliances that are out in these woods, like welcome to 1:40:08.280 --> 1:40:13.240 West Michigan's where appliances go to die. And that time 1:40:13.280 --> 1:40:16.120 of year, they're very visible because there's no full All 1:40:16.200 --> 1:40:18.320 the leaves are down and it all just looks like 1:40:18.439 --> 1:40:21.040 it's like couches and appliance And I'm like, after a while, 1:40:21.160 --> 1:40:24.439 yeahest you don't see it anymore. It just feels like 1:40:24.520 --> 1:40:31.000 the woods. Um. So that's a safe assumption. That's a 1:40:31.040 --> 1:40:35.080 safe assumption that there are there is garbage dumping. During 1:40:35.160 --> 1:40:37.720 scouting trips, I would gather garbage that I can hand 1:40:37.760 --> 1:40:41.040 carrying bags and report any unauthorized activity on the property. 1:40:41.439 --> 1:40:43.160 The goal would be to leave the property cleaner than 1:40:43.200 --> 1:40:45.800 it was found and helped prevent any future costly clean 1:40:45.880 --> 1:40:51.800 up when development, agricultural use, or future sales occur as 1:40:51.880 --> 1:40:57.519 for me. So then he uh basically introduces himself his 1:40:57.800 --> 1:41:00.439 wife like a little bio man. What he does. There's 1:41:00.479 --> 1:41:06.400 a picture of he and his wife. I forgot him 1:41:06.439 --> 1:41:14.880 and his wife. Um he is a code enforcement officer. 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:19.560 Oh yeah, good guy to know. Yeah, because if he 1:41:19.680 --> 1:41:21.479 was a guy that helps people who have been injured 1:41:21.520 --> 1:41:24.280 on other people's property get big settlements, that would not 1:41:24.360 --> 1:41:28.240 work well for him. I wouldn't. I wouldn't include that 1:41:28.320 --> 1:41:31.120 in my letter. But a code enforcer, if I'm gonna 1:41:31.200 --> 1:41:33.519 let someone of my land's gonna be a code enforcer. Man. 1:41:34.680 --> 1:41:37.280 Now it continues with the education which I like. He 1:41:37.360 --> 1:41:40.400 says this property is not within city limits and therefore 1:41:40.479 --> 1:41:43.919 discharging a firearms legal, but due to nearby residential properties, 1:41:44.400 --> 1:41:46.920 rifle hunting would only occur on sections of the property 1:41:46.960 --> 1:41:49.840 that would be far away from homes where responsible shots 1:41:49.960 --> 1:41:52.080 would be made if a clear shot. If a clear 1:41:52.200 --> 1:41:54.840 safe shot is presented, I am both the rifle hunter 1:41:54.840 --> 1:41:56.920 and a bow hunter and carry all items out with 1:41:57.040 --> 1:41:59.280 me that taken to a property during a hunt. This 1:41:59.439 --> 1:42:01.639 means that no deer stands or blinds, or any other 1:42:01.720 --> 1:42:06.559 item would be left on the property. I also recognize 1:42:06.600 --> 1:42:08.320 that there may be a question of liability for harm 1:42:08.400 --> 1:42:11.679 or injury to anyone on the property, either participating scouting 1:42:11.800 --> 1:42:14.680 or hunting. As a hunter, I recognize that harm or 1:42:14.680 --> 1:42:17.559 injuries may occur on any property that may hold natural 1:42:17.640 --> 1:42:20.679 or unnatural obstacles or dangerous I also use tetheror safety 1:42:20.720 --> 1:42:23.799 harnesses when I use climber tree stands. If granted permission, 1:42:23.840 --> 1:42:26.400 I would sign a waiver removing any owner's liability to 1:42:26.479 --> 1:42:28.880 injuries or harm to myself and others you permit to 1:42:28.960 --> 1:42:32.280 be with me while on the property. And then he 1:42:32.400 --> 1:42:36.600 goes on to talk about the the letter provided by 1:42:36.720 --> 1:42:39.400 the curacy of the n r A let we talked 1:42:39.439 --> 1:42:46.439 about earlier. UM some of my requests I'm offering to 1:42:46.560 --> 1:42:49.360 mark the property is private for the Landowner Protection Act, 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:52.120 become eyes for reporting issues that maybe of concern for 1:42:52.240 --> 1:42:54.879 you the landowner, and clean up the property is manageable 1:42:54.880 --> 1:42:57.280 to bree is found in exchange for access to the 1:42:57.320 --> 1:43:02.120 property for scouting and legal hunting. Name basically signs off 1:43:02.479 --> 1:43:08.200 says thank you for the opportunity permissions. That's good. I 1:43:08.400 --> 1:43:11.000 like that guy. One thing that makes me want to 1:43:11.040 --> 1:43:14.720 add I think I'm running out of things I wanted 1:43:14.720 --> 1:43:17.240 to add. I've talked about a bunch of times. Maybe 1:43:17.240 --> 1:43:18.920 I haven't told you about it. Market. There's a guy 1:43:19.040 --> 1:43:21.479 down in the Carolina, this guy by the name of Joe, 1:43:22.280 --> 1:43:25.040 who has a group back You have ever told you 1:43:25.080 --> 1:43:28.640 about backyard bow pro Uh? Is this? I think I 1:43:28.720 --> 1:43:32.080 may have heard of it. These guys, they there's a 1:43:32.160 --> 1:43:39.320 lot of you know, small parcel like suburban rural interface 1:43:39.479 --> 1:43:42.000 type properties in their area, and they got together a 1:43:42.120 --> 1:43:46.120 group where they have the group has a proficiency test. 1:43:46.880 --> 1:43:51.680 The group conducts background checks on members they and they 1:43:51.800 --> 1:43:56.000 have like a bunch of rules, and they're very active 1:43:56.200 --> 1:43:59.880 in food bank donations. And they're also very active in 1:44:01.360 --> 1:44:04.880 getting permissions from a person and then assuring that that 1:44:05.040 --> 1:44:09.519 person gets a butchered and wrapped deer from their own 1:44:09.640 --> 1:44:13.760 property delivered back to them. So when you can go 1:44:14.760 --> 1:44:17.599 and seek permission and be like, all of the bow 1:44:17.720 --> 1:44:23.160 hunters in our group have all done background checks, we 1:44:23.320 --> 1:44:26.840 have a lot they have a liability waiver system. We've 1:44:26.880 --> 1:44:29.360 all passed proficiency tasks. We have like a seal of 1:44:29.439 --> 1:44:34.120 approval from our organization. Backyard bow Pro and we provide 1:44:34.160 --> 1:44:36.560 ex services of the community and we will offer x 1:44:36.640 --> 1:44:38.920 services to you if you're interested in having venison from 1:44:38.920 --> 1:44:42.160 your own property. And and that is how they and 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:46.479 they have tremendous success. Do they cap like the number 1:44:47.040 --> 1:44:50.560 of people allowed on the property? I don't think. I 1:44:50.600 --> 1:44:52.240 don't know enough about it, and you know, and and 1:44:52.360 --> 1:44:55.640 I haven't talked to them in a while, um, but 1:44:55.880 --> 1:44:58.040 it was it was a thing that they were having 1:44:58.080 --> 1:45:01.080 great success with. So just go look them up. If 1:45:01.080 --> 1:45:02.920 they're not around anymore, they won't be around anymore. But 1:45:03.080 --> 1:45:08.479 I feel that they're around still. Backyard bow Pro. Interesting idea, 1:45:10.200 --> 1:45:12.280 but maybe, like you were saying, you could just use 1:45:12.360 --> 1:45:15.080 it sort of as like as as part of your resume. 1:45:15.560 --> 1:45:17.880 You're over there talking to him, you're kind of getting close, 1:45:17.960 --> 1:45:20.400 and you're like, oh, yeah, belonging to this group is 1:45:20.439 --> 1:45:23.880 sort of certified me to be out. Yeah, sure, you'd 1:45:23.920 --> 1:45:25.960 be like if you can go online and check it 1:45:26.000 --> 1:45:28.000 out and see what kind of standards we have and 1:45:28.280 --> 1:45:30.200 and find out, you know, when you've got this sort 1:45:30.240 --> 1:45:32.840 of seal of approval from and granted it's almost like 1:45:32.920 --> 1:45:35.400 self serving, but just like an interesting way to sort 1:45:35.439 --> 1:45:38.000 of because there's no there's no like state or federal 1:45:38.160 --> 1:45:41.120 version of It's just something that like private people have 1:45:41.240 --> 1:45:42.960 to come up with the sort of come and be 1:45:43.080 --> 1:45:46.519 like that that a person who might and then and 1:45:46.560 --> 1:45:50.200 their specialty is dealing with people who are otherwise would 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:55.840 otherwise be very uneasy with hunting that works well for him. 1:45:57.320 --> 1:46:01.720 Any final things you want to add, cal Um, I 1:46:01.800 --> 1:46:06.000 got one one thing that I disagreed with with what 1:46:06.280 --> 1:46:14.080 Mark said, Mark, Mark Kenyon, Um, so you wanted to 1:46:14.160 --> 1:46:19.479 hunt Iowa and people are under the assumption that coming 1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:21.639 from out of state, you gotta pay five thousand bucks. 1:46:21.720 --> 1:46:25.479 But you want to hunt Iowa for free. None of 1:46:25.560 --> 1:46:29.479 what we were talking about is hunting for free. You're 1:46:29.520 --> 1:46:34.519 not paying necessary paying cash money. But all of this 1:46:34.680 --> 1:46:39.280 stuff is, you know, you're, you know, in some cases 1:46:39.320 --> 1:46:43.880 providing a service. For some cases you're just letting them 1:46:43.920 --> 1:46:46.160 know that there's some good folks out there and you're 1:46:46.200 --> 1:46:47.799 willing to sit down and have a cup of coffee. 1:46:47.880 --> 1:46:51.880 But um, you know you're going on somebody's nothing's for free, 1:46:52.080 --> 1:46:55.400 right um? And it's if you go I don't really 1:46:55.439 --> 1:46:58.200 understand what you're saying. If you go up and knock 1:46:58.280 --> 1:47:01.719 on a door to a place where somebody is working 1:47:01.760 --> 1:47:05.120 their butts off to make some sort of living on 1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:09.840 a on a farmer ranch, and your attitude is I'm 1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:14.160 gonna get something for absolutely nothing from you. It's not 1:47:14.280 --> 1:47:17.520 gonna work out well. But in all fairness, the distinction 1:47:18.120 --> 1:47:20.120 not that I need to speak from Mark. The distinction 1:47:20.160 --> 1:47:24.799 Marcus John is like doing entering into a lease agreement 1:47:24.960 --> 1:47:28.640 or not. Yeah, no you're not, You're not doing that. 1:47:28.880 --> 1:47:33.519 But it's also it truly is. I think in most 1:47:33.600 --> 1:47:40.040 scenarios there's there's some sort of an exchange. It's not 1:47:41.160 --> 1:47:44.160 just don't go knocking on somebody's door looking for something 1:47:44.240 --> 1:47:47.720 for nothing. Got that, Mark, I got that. You gotta 1:47:47.760 --> 1:47:50.240 Rebuttal I think I would say, I mean, I agree 1:47:50.320 --> 1:47:52.479 with you. I think it was just a poorly war 1:47:52.640 --> 1:47:57.120 worded maybe explanation of the fact that simply that don't 1:47:57.200 --> 1:48:00.200 look at as costs being prohibitive to you being to 1:48:00.240 --> 1:48:04.000 hunt places, because sometimes you can still get access that 1:48:04.120 --> 1:48:08.240 doesn't require monetary payment. Now, of course you need to provide. 1:48:08.680 --> 1:48:11.960 You got to give them, whether it be conversation or 1:48:12.120 --> 1:48:17.439 simply uh, respect for their property, all these different things. Um, yes, 1:48:17.840 --> 1:48:19.400 definitely you don't want to be going in there. The 1:48:19.520 --> 1:48:22.880 thing is you are people. Some people do carry around 1:48:22.960 --> 1:48:26.560 this kind of ludicrous idea that they're somehow doing a 1:48:26.680 --> 1:48:32.200 great service to the land owner just by being out 1:48:32.240 --> 1:48:35.080 there deer hunt. It's like most guys, if they really are, 1:48:35.400 --> 1:48:38.479 like most guys are, like, man, Um, I got all 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:42.160 these deer and I just can't find anyone who's willing. 1:48:42.280 --> 1:48:45.439 And I have looked high and low, who's willing to 1:48:45.520 --> 1:48:48.000 come out and shoot these great, big giant box on 1:48:48.120 --> 1:48:51.200 my place. It's like, not really your problem. And even 1:48:51.479 --> 1:48:53.360 we get a lot of letters from people saying, I 1:48:53.520 --> 1:48:56.280 keep hearing about all the wild pig problems in Texas. 1:48:57.280 --> 1:48:59.559 You think they'd be paying me to come hunt pigs, 1:49:00.120 --> 1:49:02.599 but I can't get a pig permission because the guy 1:49:02.680 --> 1:49:04.120 that owns the lane is like the only thing I 1:49:04.240 --> 1:49:08.360 hate more than pigs is letting dudes I don't know 1:49:08.560 --> 1:49:13.000 come around run around my property with guns like that's 1:49:13.040 --> 1:49:15.600 even more of a nuisance than pigs. So I do 1:49:15.800 --> 1:49:17.559 think you have to go into it that you are 1:49:19.400 --> 1:49:25.080 as graciously as possible, Um, and without being a suck up. 1:49:25.200 --> 1:49:28.000 You are coming in and saying I'm asking a favor 1:49:28.120 --> 1:49:32.280 of you. You're inconveniencing them. Yeah, and I like, I 1:49:32.400 --> 1:49:35.479 am open to ways in which I could offset that 1:49:35.960 --> 1:49:41.040 through just politeness, gratitude, offers of help. But at the 1:49:41.160 --> 1:49:45.760 core here I am not please understand, I'm not looking 1:49:45.840 --> 1:49:48.240 at this any other way than I am saying to you, 1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:54.240 May I please? Yeah, absolutely, because if not, you got 1:49:54.360 --> 1:49:58.720 the balance all mixed up, especially the case of a 1:49:58.760 --> 1:50:02.840 coveted animal like a deer, yeah or whatever. You know, 1:50:03.439 --> 1:50:08.200 people love watching big old roosters straight across their lawns too, 1:50:08.320 --> 1:50:10.240 you know what we're talking about. Jack rabbits backed during 1:50:10.280 --> 1:50:15.639 the dust bowlt maybe, but generally it's like the guy 1:50:15.840 --> 1:50:18.240 is like, Okay, buddy, I'll do you a good turn 1:50:18.439 --> 1:50:20.599 and allow you access to my property, and I would 1:50:20.640 --> 1:50:28.880 expect some human decency back from you. Yeah. Yeahnny got 1:50:28.960 --> 1:50:32.120 nothing on that. You're spot on. Folks can't see it. 1:50:32.160 --> 1:50:34.920 But Yanni had a nod. He was nodding like he liked. 1:50:35.000 --> 1:50:38.800 He was agreeing with that. Yeah, he was thinking about 1:50:38.880 --> 1:50:45.560 dancing being on the floor. Mark um, Mark Kenyon, you 1:50:45.600 --> 1:50:47.800 want you wanna plug word to hunt podcasts and people 1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:51.080 are interested in like the d the nitty grittys, the 1:50:51.240 --> 1:50:55.640 nitty grittys, of deer hunting. Yeah, while you're done podcasts 1:50:57.000 --> 1:50:59.800 and not all this crazy flying around an airplanes out 1:50:59.840 --> 1:51:05.559 and more wilderness landscapes. But like the nitty gritty, sitting 1:51:05.680 --> 1:51:09.080 on the back forty chasing white tails three sixty five 1:51:09.160 --> 1:51:12.040 days a year, that is what we talk about. The 1:51:12.160 --> 1:51:16.360 Saga of holy Field. Didn't even talk about holy Field. Dude, 1:51:16.360 --> 1:51:19.040 we're gonna talk about it. Do you feel that, like, 1:51:20.120 --> 1:51:22.360 how many years have been trying to get this deer? Well, 1:51:22.400 --> 1:51:24.519 I've been watching him three years. The first year I 1:51:24.600 --> 1:51:26.040 passed on him, so I didn't want to hu in 1:51:26.040 --> 1:51:27.880 the first year. So two years I've been actively trying 1:51:27.920 --> 1:51:31.519 to kill um. And now you didn't do it again, 1:51:31.880 --> 1:51:35.200 I still got time. Are you are you feeling any Uh? 1:51:35.880 --> 1:51:39.000 We've talked about this before because you're like, you know, 1:51:39.360 --> 1:51:42.320 you guy that makes his living talking about deer hunt. 1:51:45.280 --> 1:51:49.080 Are you feel any sort of like uh, like like professional, Like, 1:51:49.640 --> 1:51:52.160 are you feeling like? Man? You know I didn't get 1:51:52.200 --> 1:51:56.760 the deer. Do I still have my claim to legitimacy? 1:51:57.560 --> 1:52:01.000 I'm not worried about my claim to legitimacy um, because 1:52:01.040 --> 1:52:03.160 like we talked about last year, I never based my 1:52:03.280 --> 1:52:05.519 claim to legitimacy based on whether or not I was 1:52:05.520 --> 1:52:07.400 going to kill more dear than anyone else or whatever 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:11.360 it might be. Um, but I do feel pressure both 1:52:11.439 --> 1:52:14.400 internal and external. The internal pressure someone else is going 1:52:14.439 --> 1:52:16.600 to get them quite like or he'll get hit by 1:52:16.640 --> 1:52:19.160 a car. Yeah, yeah, but I mean the internal pressures. 1:52:19.240 --> 1:52:21.160 I have put so much time and energy into it. 1:52:21.280 --> 1:52:24.080 Like any thing, whether it be all the time and 1:52:24.160 --> 1:52:26.160 energy put into writing a book or a project you're 1:52:26.160 --> 1:52:28.160 working on or anything. If you invest a ton of 1:52:28.240 --> 1:52:30.360 time and energy, there's a lot of pressure to get 1:52:30.400 --> 1:52:33.840 whatever outcome you're getting or hoping for, and so I have. 1:52:34.760 --> 1:52:38.400 This season has been a little bit of has caused 1:52:38.439 --> 1:52:41.600 me to reflect a little bit on getting back to 1:52:43.120 --> 1:52:45.439 the enjoyment of it and not being so focused on 1:52:45.560 --> 1:52:47.760 the outcome because I've gotten a little bit too deep 1:52:47.800 --> 1:52:49.800 into that and have lost the fun in a little 1:52:49.800 --> 1:52:52.519 bit of it. Like I got just so frustrated with 1:52:52.520 --> 1:52:54.720 a lot of things that were going on. Um, So 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:56.879 I have to maintain that balance because I'm very achievement 1:52:56.960 --> 1:52:59.519 oriented and very very goal oriented. I can get obsessed 1:52:59.600 --> 1:53:03.559 with things like that. So I need to constantly like relax, 1:53:04.720 --> 1:53:07.080 get back to what why you do this? The love 1:53:07.160 --> 1:53:09.639 of what you're doing. Don't focus so much on whether 1:53:09.720 --> 1:53:11.400 or not you can kill this one single deer. But 1:53:11.520 --> 1:53:13.439 but that has been my season. I have, you know, 1:53:13.680 --> 1:53:16.000 put nine pc of all my time in the last 1:53:16.080 --> 1:53:17.920 three months or whatever it's been to try and to 1:53:18.000 --> 1:53:21.880 kill this one deer. You've been seeing them? Yeah, Um, 1:53:22.040 --> 1:53:23.840 how many times have you seen him? I've had eleven 1:53:23.960 --> 1:53:29.400 encounters with him? I think this is embarrassing. I tell 1:53:29.439 --> 1:53:31.600 the story. I've told the story on on my podcast 1:53:32.439 --> 1:53:38.080 More people here than yours. Um, November seven, I had 1:53:38.160 --> 1:53:43.360 him at twenty yards at eleven o'clock in the morning. Um, 1:53:43.600 --> 1:53:45.360 late in the morning. Yeah, late in the morning. What 1:53:45.520 --> 1:53:48.280 was he doing? Uh? He was just I think he 1:53:48.360 --> 1:53:50.760 was cruising, checking betting areas for betted does in the 1:53:50.800 --> 1:53:53.000 middle of the day. But I hadn't seen anything for 1:53:53.040 --> 1:53:55.320 a couple of hours, so I had become a little 1:53:55.360 --> 1:53:58.400 bit distracted. And I was facing this direction, and I 1:53:58.520 --> 1:54:03.240 was holding my phone through the phone and looking up 1:54:03.280 --> 1:54:05.240 every you know, looking up every three seconds, and looked 1:54:05.240 --> 1:54:09.400 down the phone and I hear a little crunch behind 1:54:09.439 --> 1:54:13.639 my back, turned like that, and he's twenty yards away, 1:54:13.760 --> 1:54:17.200 spinning and running away. So I had him within shooting range. 1:54:17.240 --> 1:54:19.080 And I muffed it because I was on my phone. 1:54:20.439 --> 1:54:24.400 He's paranoid. Oh. But the next three days later I 1:54:24.479 --> 1:54:27.120 went back in close to that area and I had 1:54:27.200 --> 1:54:30.040 him within shooting range, but he was behind brush. Um. 1:54:30.360 --> 1:54:32.400 Later that day, one third in the afternoon that day, 1:54:32.440 --> 1:54:34.520 he came chasing a doll out of the bedding area 1:54:34.600 --> 1:54:37.880 sixty yards um, but running through there. Um. Then I've 1:54:37.920 --> 1:54:42.880 had him many more times that like eight um, that 1:54:43.040 --> 1:54:46.160 kind of thing. So seeing him a lot, had the 1:54:46.200 --> 1:54:50.120 close calls, but it's it'll be like he'll be here, 1:54:50.520 --> 1:54:52.600 and then I'll sit here, and then the next day 1:54:52.600 --> 1:54:55.120 I'll be sitting there, and he'll be there, and then 1:54:55.200 --> 1:54:57.520 the next day I'll be there, and then you see 1:54:57.560 --> 1:54:59.400 that I'm always one day behind him or one day 1:54:59.400 --> 1:55:02.560 ahead of him, like he'll be where I was yesterday sometimes. Um. 1:55:03.040 --> 1:55:06.600 So we've been playing cat and mouse and hasn't worked 1:55:06.640 --> 1:55:08.840 out yet. But last year I saw got a good 1:55:08.880 --> 1:55:10.880 look at you though. Oh he definitely that was the 1:55:10.960 --> 1:55:13.200 one time he's ever seen me to mine that I 1:55:13.280 --> 1:55:14.680 know off. Of course he might have seen me when 1:55:14.680 --> 1:55:16.120 I don't know, but that's the one time in the 1:55:16.160 --> 1:55:19.520 three years of hunted. Yeah, So that I had a 1:55:19.600 --> 1:55:24.160 mental breakdown after Yeah, weird hunt, right, that's like the 1:55:24.280 --> 1:55:28.200 irony of that, so I had I wasn't. I was 1:55:28.280 --> 1:55:31.200 a bad place after that that For that next hour, 1:55:31.240 --> 1:55:34.839 I was in a real bad place. But I mentally, mentally, 1:55:35.080 --> 1:55:37.440 I was just so upset with myself that I all this, 1:55:37.720 --> 1:55:40.080 I mean so much talked around and because some hammen, 1:55:40.080 --> 1:55:41.840 you're upset, you didn't wanna tell me what it was 1:55:42.280 --> 1:55:46.880 that might have been. But but to what I mentioned earlier, 1:55:47.040 --> 1:55:50.880 so that happened, I was really piste off at myself, frustrated. Um, 1:55:52.600 --> 1:55:54.520 all my buddies we usually go down and hunt Ohio 1:55:54.640 --> 1:55:56.760 some property. We got dollar together and we spent like 1:55:56.760 --> 1:55:58.680 a week or so in there. Um, so they went 1:55:58.720 --> 1:56:00.280 down a few days ahead of time. But I kept 1:56:00.320 --> 1:56:01.640 pushing it back. I was like, I gotta focus on 1:56:01.680 --> 1:56:03.840 holy Field. I can't go kept pushing it back, pushing 1:56:03.840 --> 1:56:05.600 it back, pushing it back. I hadn't gone it earlier 1:56:05.600 --> 1:56:07.320 in the season like we usually do, so I was 1:56:07.360 --> 1:56:10.000 missing out on this camaraderie aspect of my hunting season 1:56:10.040 --> 1:56:12.560 that I usually have. But I had to kill holy Fields. 1:56:12.560 --> 1:56:15.080 I gotta stay here, I focus on him. Well, this 1:56:15.200 --> 1:56:18.360 thing happened and I was really frustrated. That night I 1:56:18.480 --> 1:56:20.640 moved and though I didn't see him that night. Um, 1:56:20.840 --> 1:56:24.280 but after that evening's hunt. And this is over course 1:56:24.320 --> 1:56:26.560 of the twenty seven day period, I hunted twenty six 1:56:26.680 --> 1:56:30.400 days for him, and fifteen of those were fifteen hour 1:56:30.480 --> 1:56:33.200 sits or fourteen hour sis. I was there, give me 1:56:33.240 --> 1:56:37.200 the rundown. Twenty seven days I hunted. Um. So from 1:56:37.240 --> 1:56:40.920 October November ninet hunted every day but one, and then 1:56:41.000 --> 1:56:43.040 fifteen of those days where all day sits where I 1:56:43.040 --> 1:56:44.840 would get in the head out to the tree stand 1:56:44.880 --> 1:56:47.640 two hours before daylight and I wouldn't come in until 1:56:47.840 --> 1:56:51.240 you know, after dark. Um. So I you piss into 1:56:51.280 --> 1:56:53.120 the bottle up there, not pissed for out the tree 1:56:54.400 --> 1:56:57.320 us come up and smell that. Yeah, especially, you should 1:56:57.320 --> 1:56:59.440 get dog during. You should try to hire dog during 1:56:59.480 --> 1:57:04.440 to piss of your treat because it work. Maybe he's 1:57:04.440 --> 1:57:08.640 got he's got photo evidence that buck. You should see 1:57:08.640 --> 1:57:10.440 if you get something from I shot a buck once 1:57:11.960 --> 1:57:18.160 right after finishing peing like moments. Um. But the point 1:57:18.200 --> 1:57:20.200 of my story being that that night or that day 1:57:20.240 --> 1:57:23.800 had been very frustrated with things, and then I went, 1:57:23.920 --> 1:57:25.840 you know, from like the low place of being really 1:57:25.920 --> 1:57:27.880 upset at myself to that, starting to think, why am 1:57:27.880 --> 1:57:29.960 I getting so upset about this? Like, I'm hunting, this 1:57:30.040 --> 1:57:31.880 is supposed to I love so many things about this. 1:57:31.920 --> 1:57:33.600 Why am I letting myself get so caught up in 1:57:33.640 --> 1:57:36.000 this too? Finally, by the end of that night, realizing, 1:57:36.000 --> 1:57:37.320 you know what, I just need to step away from 1:57:37.360 --> 1:57:38.840 it for a little bit. So I'm gonna go down 1:57:38.840 --> 1:57:41.720 to Ohio with my friends, spend a little time with them, um, 1:57:42.000 --> 1:57:43.240 you know, get back to some of the things that 1:57:43.320 --> 1:57:45.880 really matter here versus just killing one specific deer that 1:57:45.960 --> 1:57:47.760 I arbiturely have chosen to be the only thing that 1:57:47.800 --> 1:57:50.720 will make me happy this season for some stupid So 1:57:51.160 --> 1:57:54.560 I go down to Ohio and the second damn down there, 1:57:55.240 --> 1:57:57.920 my best friend kills the first buck he's killed in 1:57:58.000 --> 1:58:00.440 like four years, and I got to be there with him, 1:58:00.480 --> 1:58:02.920 help him recover. I actually saw the whole thing happened 1:58:02.920 --> 1:58:05.640 from across the valley and got to help him drag 1:58:05.680 --> 1:58:07.480 it out, got him do all that kind of stuff 1:58:07.520 --> 1:58:09.520 with him. Um, and it was It was the best 1:58:09.640 --> 1:58:11.560 moment of my whole hunting season. Getting to share that 1:58:11.640 --> 1:58:13.280 moment with my buddy and be a part of that 1:58:13.480 --> 1:58:15.720 and help out, and it just kind of reminded me, 1:58:16.080 --> 1:58:17.800 you know, in the end, those other things that really 1:58:17.840 --> 1:58:20.600 matter most. So I'm really, I'm really glad I made 1:58:20.640 --> 1:58:25.040 that decision. Was a great just reminder to to focus 1:58:25.080 --> 1:58:27.720 on the important stuff. And you know, hopefully holy Field 1:58:27.760 --> 1:58:31.120 still alive. I haven't. I haven't hunted there in the 1:58:31.200 --> 1:58:35.480 last like eight days and general fire. Yeah, I tend 1:58:35.560 --> 1:58:38.040 I usually stay out. I hunted Opening day. I usually don't, 1:58:38.080 --> 1:58:40.200 but I hunt an opening day. The no I took 1:58:40.200 --> 1:58:42.800 a gun on actually, um, and you're gonna shoot how 1:58:42.880 --> 1:58:44.480 we feel if you had a chance. Yeah, that was 1:58:44.520 --> 1:58:46.480 another thing I didn't up deciding I'm gonna shot him 1:58:46.520 --> 1:58:50.400 with whatever is legal. Um, I'm I'm not a purist. 1:58:50.440 --> 1:58:53.120 I like bow hunting. I love bo hunting. I do 1:58:53.240 --> 1:58:55.560 that the most, But I'm not fundamentally posed to shooting 1:58:55.600 --> 1:58:58.480 him with a gun. But you passed on him another 1:58:58.560 --> 1:59:01.080 time with a gun last year. That was because he 1:59:01.160 --> 1:59:02.680 knew that he would at that point, he knew that 1:59:02.760 --> 1:59:04.760 it would live. I thought, I hoped that he would 1:59:04.800 --> 1:59:06.360 make it to this year. So last year I chose 1:59:06.440 --> 1:59:07.880 not to try to kill him with any weapon. And 1:59:07.920 --> 1:59:11.160 I could have killed with a muzzler sixty yards last year. Um, 1:59:11.560 --> 1:59:13.640 but shows at that point in the season because there's 1:59:13.680 --> 1:59:15.720 only like, you know, twelve days left of the season 1:59:15.760 --> 1:59:17.800 or whatever to see if you can make to this year. 1:59:18.400 --> 1:59:20.360 So but that that is like another pressure. So there 1:59:20.440 --> 1:59:22.600 was like the internal pressures and then like there's a 1:59:22.640 --> 1:59:24.240 lot of people that have been following along with the 1:59:24.360 --> 1:59:26.160 story and like want to see what happens, and so 1:59:26.240 --> 1:59:28.080 I have felt some of that external pressure. But I'm 1:59:28.080 --> 1:59:30.440 trying to say that doesn't matter. Just hunt your hunt 1:59:30.840 --> 1:59:33.320 and enjoy it and learn from it and share what 1:59:33.400 --> 1:59:35.640 happens along the way. And that's that's what I'm trying 1:59:35.640 --> 1:59:38.080 to do. So when was the last you know? But 1:59:38.120 --> 1:59:40.440 you would probably have caught wind if someone got him, right, 1:59:40.440 --> 1:59:42.440 because you know the guys in your area. I think 1:59:42.520 --> 1:59:44.440 I would know. There's a there's a couple of people 1:59:44.640 --> 1:59:46.520 that I don't know, so if one of them killed, 1:59:47.000 --> 1:59:49.680 I wouldn't have found out was the last day you 1:59:49.760 --> 1:59:52.200 knew that he was still in the living? I had 1:59:52.280 --> 1:59:56.600 him at eighty yards twice the night before fire up season. Okay, 1:59:56.960 --> 2:00:00.480 so how old is it? He's I and half I 2:00:00.560 --> 2:00:04.120 believe he's getting in the autumn of his life man. Yeah, 2:00:04.440 --> 2:00:07.000 there's there's not many bucks that older on my neck 2:00:07.040 --> 2:00:10.240 of the woods there, and I've hunted this property six 2:00:10.360 --> 2:00:13.120 or seven years, and this is the first buck that 2:00:13.200 --> 2:00:15.000 I know. This made it the first first five and 2:00:15.000 --> 2:00:16.760 a half year five and a half year old deer 2:00:16.840 --> 2:00:19.440 that's there. There's just three year olds would be usually 2:00:19.440 --> 2:00:21.760 be the oldest deer in the area. So, um, he's 2:00:21.760 --> 2:00:24.160 an anomaly. So it's been really cool to have that 2:00:24.200 --> 2:00:25.920 opportunity to see a deer so many times. I mean 2:00:26.000 --> 2:00:28.960 last year I saw him twenty seven times. This year 2:00:29.000 --> 2:00:31.920 it's been eleven so far. Um, and you got how 2:00:32.000 --> 2:00:34.120 long now because the rifle's gonna end? And you got 2:00:34.160 --> 2:00:37.200 how long did bow hunt him? Well, muzzler season now 2:00:37.280 --> 2:00:39.600 opens the day after fire up season, and you're getting 2:00:39.600 --> 2:00:43.880 on that yeah, and then uh and that's done the 2:00:43.960 --> 2:00:46.840 seventeenth and after that's bow you'de not gonna take that letter. Yeah, 2:00:46.840 --> 2:00:49.040 And he was reading and sent that letter to everyone's 2:00:49.040 --> 2:00:52.160 around that property and just locked that place up with 2:00:52.320 --> 2:00:58.320 just me permissions. I'll get that buck better, hopefully. Someone 2:01:00.000 --> 2:01:03.840 I know. I'm like, you know somebody I wanted to 2:01:04.120 --> 2:01:06.520 I wanted to be you because because because it means 2:01:06.600 --> 2:01:11.560 so much to you. You know, maybe that's silly that 2:01:11.680 --> 2:01:13.480 it matters so much to me. I don't know. I'm 2:01:13.480 --> 2:01:17.960 sure I'm gonna learn because that's that's you're at and 2:01:18.120 --> 2:01:22.360 the thing that you're interested in, you're in the You're 2:01:22.400 --> 2:01:26.320 in in it the deepest way possible. Yeah, to just 2:01:26.440 --> 2:01:28.680 be that you like would go out. Most people walk 2:01:28.680 --> 2:01:30.640 around the woods. They don't know what's going on. If 2:01:30.680 --> 2:01:34.200 you go out and sort of identify this specific animal 2:01:34.360 --> 2:01:39.320 and those entire history and then like focus on them 2:01:39.360 --> 2:01:41.560 and try to get them rather than just sort of 2:01:41.600 --> 2:01:44.120 the blind random luck that happens. But I've also pointed 2:01:44.160 --> 2:01:47.400 out that it's gonna be sad too, with how well 2:01:47.480 --> 2:01:50.120 you know him. It was like shooting your brother, no 2:01:50.280 --> 2:01:55.880 doubt about. We're talking at lunch. We're talking at lunt 2:01:56.120 --> 2:01:59.920 about how I'm about who Greece Um, about being over 2:02:00.120 --> 2:02:02.120 confident or like you know, putting the deer on the 2:02:02.160 --> 2:02:03.920 wall before you shoot him and stuff. And as you 2:02:03.960 --> 2:02:05.680 guys were talking about, I was thinking in my head 2:02:06.040 --> 2:02:08.240 how I've envisioned what it would be like to shoot him, 2:02:08.280 --> 2:02:11.400 Like I've thought about that moment, like walking up on him, um, 2:02:12.400 --> 2:02:17.000 and I felt moments of like that already, Like I 2:02:17.040 --> 2:02:18.760 can't I don't remember when this, but but I actively 2:02:18.800 --> 2:02:21.080 remember thinking about shooting him and walking up and like 2:02:21.200 --> 2:02:23.800 holding his head and like feeling an immense amount of 2:02:23.960 --> 2:02:27.720 sadness about that moment. You had a mind movie about it. Yeah, yeah, 2:02:27.760 --> 2:02:29.320 And so I know I know I will feel that way. 2:02:29.320 --> 2:02:31.760 I've I've I've hunted other deer in multiple years and 2:02:31.880 --> 2:02:34.720 had like many counters. I've had a shallower version of 2:02:34.760 --> 2:02:36.840 this in the past, and even those times, you know, 2:02:37.000 --> 2:02:39.840 you feel any deer I kill, there's a sense of 2:02:40.240 --> 2:02:46.040 of I don't know if more sadness, immense respect, a 2:02:46.120 --> 2:02:48.400 whole slew of different types of emotions. And I know 2:02:48.600 --> 2:02:51.320 that that will happen again with if I'm fortunate enough 2:02:51.320 --> 2:02:52.840 to kill this dear. I'm sure I will feel that, 2:02:52.960 --> 2:02:55.520 but maybe in a in a different way than before too. 2:02:55.880 --> 2:02:58.280 When we touched on this before, I remember Yanny saying 2:02:58.280 --> 2:02:59.880 he's got the feeling that way about a deer just 2:03:00.000 --> 2:03:05.200 in the afternoon. Yeah, just watching the buck all day, 2:03:05.320 --> 2:03:08.160 watching waiting for him the stand up. You know, are 2:03:08.200 --> 2:03:11.720 you started being like, oh a little bugger seven times? 2:03:12.840 --> 2:03:17.160 I mean that's well, I mean every different scenario, right, 2:03:17.240 --> 2:03:19.440 so that's add a little more depth to the character. 2:03:19.680 --> 2:03:21.800 And I've never ever ever had anything like this happened 2:03:21.840 --> 2:03:24.560 before to this degree. I mean the year before was 2:03:24.600 --> 2:03:27.280 probably four or five times. Last year twenty seven eleven, 2:03:27.360 --> 2:03:31.160 this time, I mean that's pretty astronomical. So last question 2:03:31.240 --> 2:03:33.760 for you, if if you get them or someone else 2:03:33.800 --> 2:03:37.240 gets them, do you have you already picked out what 2:03:37.400 --> 2:03:40.040 buck is next? What buck you're gonna start like obsessing 2:03:40.120 --> 2:03:43.040 over next? Do is there a contender? There's a contender, 2:03:45.000 --> 2:03:48.160 you got one you might decide to obsess over well, 2:03:48.240 --> 2:03:50.960 just because like this, it's a small property. It's a 2:03:51.120 --> 2:03:53.600 single small property in a heavily hunted area, so there's 2:03:54.120 --> 2:03:59.000 almost only ever one like shooter buck any given year, 2:03:59.040 --> 2:04:01.280 like a mature buck and that area like three years old. 2:04:01.320 --> 2:04:03.560 Sometimes it's like the oldest buck will be. But there's 2:04:03.560 --> 2:04:05.120 a three year old this year. That's like a nice 2:04:05.160 --> 2:04:07.480 three year old um who I would love to see 2:04:07.520 --> 2:04:09.240 make it to next year. I'm really really hoping he 2:04:09.320 --> 2:04:12.120 makes it. He's like just a nice wide eight pointer um. 2:04:12.640 --> 2:04:15.960 And as we white tail guys do, I named him. 2:04:20.800 --> 2:04:24.200 This is uh a self fulfilling prophecy, is what my 2:04:24.280 --> 2:04:28.080 hope will be I'm naming him Survivor so that he's 2:04:28.080 --> 2:04:30.080 the buck I really want to survive this year. So 2:04:30.200 --> 2:04:31.920 that buck, are you gonna change his name when you 2:04:31.920 --> 2:04:33.920 start wanting to right next year, he's got to switch 2:04:33.960 --> 2:04:38.120 it up to dead. So now you're just like helping 2:04:38.200 --> 2:04:41.360 him along. And I've seen him a lot this year too. 2:04:41.480 --> 2:04:44.080 He's cool deer and and most likely all these deer 2:04:44.200 --> 2:04:46.200 won't even be around when I get back to hunting 2:04:46.440 --> 2:04:48.840 in a couple of days. But he gotta hope. And 2:04:49.000 --> 2:04:51.400 because I have been picked up by other hunters, probably 2:04:51.520 --> 2:04:53.440 you never know. I mean, I do what I can 2:04:53.520 --> 2:04:56.440 to try to um have an environment where they might 2:04:56.440 --> 2:04:57.920 be able to make it through, you know, like we 2:04:58.000 --> 2:05:01.640 talked about last year or last podcast. UM, so hopefully 2:05:01.680 --> 2:05:04.680 they'll be a few bucks to make it throw. But something, yeah, bro, 2:05:05.160 --> 2:05:08.360 and some do they always do. I just want to say, 2:05:08.400 --> 2:05:12.360 I just I really understand about like getting on the 2:05:12.440 --> 2:05:14.960 phone at eleven am. And I was so lucky this 2:05:15.240 --> 2:05:18.000 I was in Wisconsin hunting gun deer this year and 2:05:18.080 --> 2:05:22.000 sitting in tree stands and I forgot my phone opening day. 2:05:22.280 --> 2:05:23.720 It was like the best thing that ever happened to me. 2:05:23.800 --> 2:05:25.960 Like I was kind of stressed like we like drove 2:05:26.040 --> 2:05:28.200 for me five minutes and then to walk back into 2:05:28.200 --> 2:05:30.080 the property and not like in the car, I'm like, gosh, 2:05:30.160 --> 2:05:33.000 I run back and get it, you know, pictures. But 2:05:33.120 --> 2:05:34.520 I knew really in the back of my head. No, 2:05:34.800 --> 2:05:38.480 like mid day, you're gonna be like emailing and freaking yeah, 2:05:38.600 --> 2:05:43.200 flipping Instagram, you know. And uh, but that first day, 2:05:43.240 --> 2:05:46.200 I was the worst tree stand sitter I've been. And again, 2:05:46.240 --> 2:05:47.480 I just haven't been doing it a lot in the 2:05:47.600 --> 2:05:50.000 last twenty years. But man, you just forget. And I 2:05:50.080 --> 2:05:52.320 had a pretty open set up, like they had cut 2:05:52.440 --> 2:05:56.280 all around this tree stand is somebody else had put 2:05:56.320 --> 2:05:58.800 it up there years ago. But I think what you 2:05:58.880 --> 2:06:00.480 used to have pretty good cut her. I mean I 2:06:00.680 --> 2:06:03.120 was now just like playing to the to the world. 2:06:03.160 --> 2:06:05.080 It's I had to be an extra good sitter, you know. 2:06:05.360 --> 2:06:07.760 And and by like you got lighted seven and by 2:06:07.880 --> 2:06:10.320 like eight, I'm just like, you're being way too fidgety 2:06:10.360 --> 2:06:12.080 on it. You're being way too fidgety, you know. And 2:06:12.480 --> 2:06:15.160 the first like six d I see, I'm just seeing 2:06:15.240 --> 2:06:18.880 flax because they're seeing me a long time before, you know, 2:06:20.520 --> 2:06:22.640 because it's just why like you got like a chest 2:06:22.800 --> 2:06:26.440 like a breast pocket. If you're like dying of guilt 2:06:27.120 --> 2:06:29.160 about stuff you're supposed to be doing, but you're sitting 2:06:29.160 --> 2:06:31.840 out in the woods instead, and you're trying to like 2:06:31.920 --> 2:06:33.920 even if you're trying to maintain the appearance that you 2:06:34.040 --> 2:06:38.480 are at work, right, you haven't shared with you This 2:06:38.560 --> 2:06:40.200 is just like a tip I'm giving people, Like my 2:06:40.320 --> 2:06:42.280 work structure is that I need to act like I'm 2:06:42.320 --> 2:06:46.560 not hunting. But if I was in one, if you 2:06:46.640 --> 2:06:50.440 get like a breast pocket, uh, and you just ease 2:06:50.800 --> 2:06:54.920 er out like a like a poker player close to 2:06:54.960 --> 2:06:57.200 the chest, I'm doing it right now. Ease are out, 2:06:57.560 --> 2:06:59.840 do what you gotta do. Ease er back, and you know, 2:07:00.080 --> 2:07:03.080 spooking deer. No no, I'm not saying that necessarily. The 2:07:03.160 --> 2:07:05.920 phone was um, but you are taking yourself out of 2:07:05.960 --> 2:07:09.520 the game. You should know about coming and you should 2:07:09.560 --> 2:07:13.320 be like getting, yeah, what gets the tree and positioning 2:07:13.400 --> 2:07:15.760 yourself for when he's coming. You don't know he's coming, 2:07:15.800 --> 2:07:19.240 and he's just yeah, but just speaking to the the 2:07:19.760 --> 2:07:22.280 like the idea of being a good tree stand hunter 2:07:22.360 --> 2:07:24.960 and a good you know, Eastern white tail hunter. It 2:07:25.040 --> 2:07:28.720 just requires you to freaking sit still, move your head 2:07:28.960 --> 2:07:32.600 slowly you know, don't jerk your whole body around when 2:07:32.600 --> 2:07:34.920 you're looking over your shoulder behind the tree, you know, 2:07:35.120 --> 2:07:37.760 and just it's I just remember like on Sunday morning 2:07:37.800 --> 2:07:40.080 when I got into the tree, and like midday, I 2:07:40.200 --> 2:07:42.160 was like, all right, I've done a really good job 2:07:42.240 --> 2:07:44.120 the last four hours. You know, I've just been like 2:07:44.280 --> 2:07:48.280 sitting here, like not moving, not dicking around, not going 2:07:48.320 --> 2:07:50.840 in for more sneakers and more snacks than another couple 2:07:50.840 --> 2:07:56.200 of kids candies to the Halloween candy confiscated. Maintaining that 2:07:56.280 --> 2:07:59.480 focus though, it's tough when you're doing day after day 2:07:59.480 --> 2:08:02.520 after day all day and you're sitting. Yeah, people think 2:08:02.560 --> 2:08:04.320 it's easy. Oh they're just sitting a tree all day. 2:08:06.200 --> 2:08:09.440 I know. It's compared now, compared to you know, Rocky 2:08:09.480 --> 2:08:12.720 Mountain el hunting or whatever, it's not the same kind 2:08:12.760 --> 2:08:14.400 of physical way and tilS like a different kind of 2:08:14.920 --> 2:08:17.520 a different dude. We got a friend, Jeff Lander, who 2:08:17.640 --> 2:08:23.840 guides this is bow only area up outside of Edmonton, Alberta. 2:08:25.800 --> 2:08:28.960 And by the time Rut comes there, they're dealing in 2:08:29.040 --> 2:08:35.720 like negative zero weather hunting November up there. And to 2:08:35.880 --> 2:08:41.160 hear his stories about what it takes two tree stand 2:08:41.240 --> 2:08:45.920 hunt in November and Alberta is like it's like some 2:08:46.120 --> 2:08:50.800 harrowing tales of endurance, and just like the clothes, and 2:08:50.920 --> 2:08:53.080 just to try to manage everything because you gotta have 2:08:54.960 --> 2:08:56.720 You gotta be at some point be able to whip 2:08:56.760 --> 2:09:02.520 out bare fingers and shoot the damn dear and like 2:09:02.640 --> 2:09:04.480 to be able to be warm enough to pull all 2:09:04.520 --> 2:09:07.440 that off in a way that makes sense. There's no joke, man, 2:09:08.000 --> 2:09:11.400 I believe in the focus factor is so much larger 2:09:11.480 --> 2:09:15.760 than anybody has put You can't put enough words on 2:09:15.880 --> 2:09:18.960 paper on it. It's like you have got in the 2:09:19.280 --> 2:09:23.760 tree stand, which admittedly have done at this point. Let's 2:09:23.800 --> 2:09:26.680 just call it zero compared to everybody else in the room. 2:09:26.920 --> 2:09:33.120 And then but the mule deer, rightful, elk whatever, man 2:09:33.360 --> 2:09:39.400 it the second you let your head go out of okay, 2:09:39.520 --> 2:09:42.720 do or die? This is it. This is my opportunity. 2:09:43.800 --> 2:09:47.680 And the second you wander away from that mentally, you 2:09:47.800 --> 2:09:52.360 make mistakes. I mean, you just do absolutely, man, mental focus. 2:09:54.560 --> 2:09:55.920 I want to touch on one thing I keep wanting 2:09:55.920 --> 2:09:58.120 to come back to and in big time white tailed 2:09:58.240 --> 2:10:01.800 guy world, thinking it is okay to snake her out 2:10:01.840 --> 2:10:04.600 and just whizz off the edge of tree stands, Yeah, 2:10:04.680 --> 2:10:08.800 snaker out. That's the general practice. That is the general practice. 2:10:08.960 --> 2:10:11.840 I've read study. There's been studies done to test the 2:10:12.960 --> 2:10:19.560 reaction of deer to human urine, a placebo, dear, earine, etcetera, etcetera, 2:10:19.600 --> 2:10:21.960 a handful of different things, and there's no noticeable impact. 2:10:22.200 --> 2:10:24.240 So buck me and juice is just may not be 2:10:24.320 --> 2:10:28.800 particular to dog. I think he's just seeing a universal effect. 2:10:29.880 --> 2:10:32.160 I've had it happened three times. I've got a joke 2:10:32.240 --> 2:10:34.920 with my buddies that when I'm not seeing dear, I'll 2:10:34.920 --> 2:10:37.280 be like, well, I thought I had bucked juice, so 2:10:37.320 --> 2:10:38.880 I would be like, well, it's trying to try to 2:10:38.920 --> 2:10:41.920 bring him in. So I've had big buck encounters three 2:10:41.960 --> 2:10:44.600 times while doing that. Yeah, because that's what I do. 2:10:44.720 --> 2:10:46.520 But I always feel a little bit like, I'm like, 2:10:46.640 --> 2:10:49.200 I bet you that the big time white tail guys 2:10:50.000 --> 2:10:53.520 are like truckers with the bottle, with the bottle that 2:10:53.600 --> 2:10:59.400 they then throw off a highway over pass. There might 2:10:59.440 --> 2:11:02.600 be some, but but most I hear, what what do 2:11:02.640 --> 2:11:05.800 you think about the sound though? Because I got a 2:11:05.800 --> 2:11:08.360 story about that that brings in bucks. Don't tell me 2:11:10.240 --> 2:11:14.200 on opening day, some doughs I can't see. I think 2:11:14.240 --> 2:11:16.320 they're doughs, but they're what do you call it? When 2:11:16.320 --> 2:11:21.000 they just like they blow at you, just bow. I 2:11:21.080 --> 2:11:23.160 can't see them. A couple of I'll do the noise. 2:11:23.160 --> 2:11:24.920 People who don't know the noise we're talking about, Yeah, 2:11:27.280 --> 2:11:29.320 it's pretty good. It's the worst noise in the world. 2:11:31.280 --> 2:11:37.240 And do then I'll do the out version, y'all, even 2:11:37.280 --> 2:11:43.200 do a good out version. Yeah, here's an antilope. Here's 2:11:43.240 --> 2:11:53.520 what antilope does. So and there it is. That's a 2:11:53.600 --> 2:12:00.200 good one. I'd a lot nothing that makes its adent 2:12:00.240 --> 2:12:03.680 all because they blew at me once and thirty minutes 2:12:03.760 --> 2:12:05.600 goes by, so I'm thinking they just went in the 2:12:05.640 --> 2:12:09.200 other direction, well, along the same ridge that they're on. 2:12:10.400 --> 2:12:13.920 Thirty minutes later, I need to take a leak, So 2:12:15.080 --> 2:12:17.320 I just moved a little bit and make a bunch 2:12:17.360 --> 2:12:20.160 of movement. And as soon as I start, my piece 2:12:20.160 --> 2:12:22.080 starts hitting the leaves down the low and I'm like, God, 2:12:22.120 --> 2:12:27.600 that's awfully loud. You know, I'm like, damn it. You 2:12:27.680 --> 2:12:30.280 know it's on the same ridge. So I don't know. Coincidence. 2:12:30.440 --> 2:12:31.920 Might have been the same deer and they were aware 2:12:31.960 --> 2:12:34.640 of me already, and so they were just like, are 2:12:34.840 --> 2:12:38.640 you down there again? Or but here's the thing, I 2:12:38.720 --> 2:12:42.440 don't really do it that way. I aim it back 2:12:42.560 --> 2:12:46.920 so arches out, it kind of hits the tree broadcast, 2:12:47.080 --> 2:12:50.800 which is quiet. So I was gonna say my recommended 2:12:50.960 --> 2:12:54.160 trajectory is to hit a tree trunk close to you. 2:12:54.320 --> 2:12:56.400 That makes it much quiet. You don't make like a 2:12:56.440 --> 2:12:59.360 little leaf pile down there and go on it. But well, 2:12:59.400 --> 2:13:00.880 like I said, I was in the middle of a 2:13:00.960 --> 2:13:04.880 clear cut. Okay, I know I should have just yeah, 2:13:05.240 --> 2:13:07.680 I had. It was one of these all days. Throw 2:13:07.760 --> 2:13:10.440 a long distance because you're when you're fourteen feet up, 2:13:10.880 --> 2:13:16.280 you can lander, not Jeff lander the lander. You can 2:13:16.400 --> 2:13:20.440 land or way out yonder or to whatever. And yeah, 2:13:20.440 --> 2:13:21.800 I don't like to go on the leaves because this 2:13:21.840 --> 2:13:24.840 is real loud. If you're in close, you've got to 2:13:24.880 --> 2:13:30.200 be conscious of everything. And had some very painful, prolonged 2:13:30.920 --> 2:13:36.480 peas in close on mule deer archery. What do you 2:13:36.520 --> 2:13:41.720 mean where you're like every sound matters. You've basically stripped 2:13:41.760 --> 2:13:46.520 down to nakedness because you think everything's making Yeah, yeah, 2:13:46.800 --> 2:13:48.400 but it can be part of your calling game for 2:13:48.720 --> 2:13:51.440 ELK too. You've heard elk p in the woods. Yeah, 2:13:51.880 --> 2:13:54.760 well that's that's what I go back to those you know, 2:13:55.040 --> 2:13:57.960 when a deer peas and the story about the noise. Yeah, 2:13:58.320 --> 2:14:02.120 like there's some kind of leaf liquid noise there. So 2:14:02.680 --> 2:14:07.440 all day sit and I'm just like lunchtime. So I've 2:14:07.480 --> 2:14:09.400 reached in for an apple. I take a bite out 2:14:09.400 --> 2:14:12.040 of an apple, and just as I do that, I 2:14:12.120 --> 2:14:14.200 see something off to my left. I'm in some thick 2:14:14.280 --> 2:14:17.000 bedding cover and there's a buck, like twenty yards. It 2:14:17.000 --> 2:14:19.240 would been like a kind of wettish day had already 2:14:19.280 --> 2:14:21.600 been there. He had been walking through and just kind 2:14:21.600 --> 2:14:23.760 of come into an opening, and I'm like, mid bite 2:14:23.800 --> 2:14:27.160 of my apple. Jesus, a deer right there. So I'm 2:14:27.200 --> 2:14:29.400 thinking he saw me, but he didn't. I watched him. 2:14:29.400 --> 2:14:31.440 He just kind of fiddling around. It was like a 2:14:31.520 --> 2:14:34.200 bunch of down maple tree leaves I remember seeing there. 2:14:34.200 --> 2:14:36.680 And so he was there for like ten minutes, eleven minutes, 2:14:36.720 --> 2:14:39.360 twelve minutes, and I'm watching him and he's just fiddling 2:14:39.360 --> 2:14:41.480 around and he won't leave, and now he's at like 2:14:41.600 --> 2:14:45.240 twelve yards eleven yards, and this whole time, I have 2:14:45.360 --> 2:14:47.400 to pee. I gotta pee, I gotta pee, I gotta pee. 2:14:47.400 --> 2:14:49.480 In this Finally, like the stupid buck won't get out 2:14:49.480 --> 2:14:52.480 of here, I gotta pee, and I'm like, you know what, 2:14:53.760 --> 2:14:58.360 let's see what happens. So I just took a pe 2:14:58.760 --> 2:15:01.760 off the tree while wa channel buck twelve yards away. 2:15:02.520 --> 2:15:06.280 See what happened. And I went into leaves and couldn't 2:15:06.320 --> 2:15:08.200 reach a tree. Couldn't reach a tree trump so peeing 2:15:08.280 --> 2:15:11.440 off the stand into leaves with about twelve yards away, 2:15:12.520 --> 2:15:15.720 and he looked up, looked in the area of that 2:15:15.880 --> 2:15:19.720 sound for like five seconds as it was going, and 2:15:19.840 --> 2:15:23.240 then he just kept hearing it, and he's like munch 2:15:23.320 --> 2:15:25.520 on leaves or whatever, and then his head back down 2:15:25.920 --> 2:15:30.360 eating this stuff. I didn't care one bit. I wouldn't 2:15:30.360 --> 2:15:32.960 recommend that after I would never have never recommend doing 2:15:33.000 --> 2:15:36.000 They're just they've been doing where they have been playing 2:15:36.640 --> 2:15:41.440 disembodied human voices to animals out in the woods to 2:15:41.520 --> 2:15:44.640 get their response. They don't like it. I believe that 2:15:45.240 --> 2:15:49.360 they don't like it that they have cameras set up 2:15:49.440 --> 2:15:52.040 so they know when they're there and they can play 2:15:52.080 --> 2:15:58.680 a disembodied human voice and no, what's the message though, Well, 2:15:59.040 --> 2:16:01.760 they've been using the als a brasive voices they can find, 2:16:01.840 --> 2:16:05.240 so they use pundits from the extreme left and extreme right. 2:16:06.080 --> 2:16:10.040 That's part of the study. I think they're using like 2:16:10.400 --> 2:16:13.160 Rachel man Out and Bill O'Reilly or something like that, 2:16:14.640 --> 2:16:17.000 like the voices that they like, these sort of like 2:16:17.200 --> 2:16:20.520 voices that tend to make some segment of the population 2:16:20.840 --> 2:16:25.120 extremely angry. It's a prolonged debate over three months. They're 2:16:25.120 --> 2:16:29.320 not controlling for enough. I remember that being a part 2:16:29.360 --> 2:16:31.640 of it. They're they're they're the part I read they 2:16:31.680 --> 2:16:34.200 were looking at lions with how my Olwain lions would 2:16:34.720 --> 2:16:38.920 respond to human voice, and they're not big fans. Um. 2:16:39.480 --> 2:16:43.360 All right, Mark Kenyon, thank you for very much for 2:16:43.440 --> 2:16:49.120 joining us. Thank you, it's been fun. Callahan again, thank you. No, 2:16:49.280 --> 2:16:52.800 that was awesome. Mark. Thanks and you can find these guys. 2:16:52.840 --> 2:16:57.240 You can find callahana old cal four oh six. Right, 2:16:57.959 --> 2:17:01.360 that is correct. Well, see a l four oh six. 2:17:01.680 --> 2:17:03.800 I never thought i'd go on this line. That's your 2:17:03.840 --> 2:17:08.000 Instagram handle, okay, four oh six, Mark Kenny wire to 2:17:08.080 --> 2:17:10.680 hunt you runn under wire to hunt. I'm across it 2:17:10.760 --> 2:17:15.480 all yep, Instagram, Facebook, etcetera, etcetera. All right, thanks guys,