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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff?

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Speaker 2: Another rerun. Why are there so many reruns?

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Speaker 3: Well, I told you each one made sense for different reasons,

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Speaker 3: and this one is.

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Speaker 2: Because cool Zon Media takes off for.

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Speaker 3: The holidays sometimes, And so we're going to run a

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Speaker 3: rerun about anti fascism and film.

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Speaker 2: Why because I like it and I want you to

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Speaker 2: hear it again or for the.

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Speaker 3: First time, but also because I think it's really important

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Speaker 3: that we understand about how culture can shape things and

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Speaker 3: also specifically how we can use culture to resist. And

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Speaker 3: also I just think it's cool that all the original

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Speaker 3: vampires are on our side. Anyway, I hope you all

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Speaker 3: are well, and here's an episode. Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 3: you Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 3: Margaret Kiljoy, and each week I talk about cool people

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Speaker 3: who did cool stuff. This week, I'm super excited about

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Speaker 3: our guest because she's Kitlyn.

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Speaker 2: Or One, which is exciting.

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Speaker 3: Hello. Yeah, you're the co host of the Bechdel Cast,

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Speaker 3: which is about movies.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct? It is true movies? And we watch

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Speaker 2: a movie, we say this is a sexist pile of garbage.

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Speaker 2: And then sometimes I'm like, oh, but I still like it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's not the piles of garbage that I still like.

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Speaker 3: This is a good episode for you.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, I don't know what we're talking about,

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Speaker 2: so I'm excited to find out. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, basically, eighty percent of the men in history

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Speaker 3: who are worth talking about as cool are also sexists.

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Speaker 3: So you know, no matter what you do, there's going

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Speaker 3: to be some of them.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry.

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Speaker 3: This is not an episode about one particular one. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to build up the suspense. The audience will already

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Speaker 3: know what the thing is about because they've seen the title.

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Speaker 3: Caitlin is not But how are you doing? How are you, Caitlin?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing very well. Well, let's see. I just saw

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Speaker 2: R R R in theaters for the third time. It's

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Speaker 2: my new favorite movie. I'm spreading the gospel. I had

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Speaker 2: the catalytic converter stolen out of my car, and I

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Speaker 2: was told that it would take Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: I was told it would be months before I would

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Speaker 2: get a replacement part because there's a supply chain issue

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Speaker 2: because everyone's getting there things are stolen. But they happen

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Speaker 2: to have a spare one and it fit my car.

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Speaker 3: And it's exactly like the one that was in your car.

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Speaker 3: Someone just happened to come by and sell it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I wonder where that came from. So I got

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Speaker 2: my car back much sooner than Anticif things are looking up,

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Speaker 2: things are looking up. I love that for you. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: How are you, Margaret? I'm okay.

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Speaker 3: I'm on this long road trip and I'm paranoid that

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Speaker 3: someone's going to steal the catalytic converter around my truck.

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Speaker 3: And I was like looking into like welding things on

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Speaker 3: the underside of my truck, and then I was like,

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Speaker 3: this is you know, I'm still more likely to there's

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Speaker 3: other bad things that could also happen that are worse.

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Speaker 2: Let's hope not. Oh that's true.

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Speaker 3: Only good things will happen because this is the only

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Speaker 3: Good Things podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We also this show is produced by Sophie Lichterman, who

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Speaker 3: is also my friend. She has a cute dog. Sophie,

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Speaker 3: how are you?

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Speaker 1: I thank you for complimenting Anderson. She appreciates that she

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Speaker 1: is a cute dog, and I am honored to be

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Speaker 1: your producer and friend. I am well, I am well, Anderson,

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Speaker 1: are you well? She just looked at me. She is well,

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Speaker 1: she got a new piece of furniture that she can

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Speaker 1: comfortably lounge on today, So that is that is always

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Speaker 1: good news.

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Speaker 2: Shout out, and not to brag or anything, but Sophie

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Speaker 2: is also my producer and also my friend. Yeah well

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Speaker 2: then oh it's a competition. Well I'm also Sophie's producer

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Speaker 2: and you're no, I got nothing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Oh my producer's Anderson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough.

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Speaker 3: Ian is our audio engineer and the theme music was

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Speaker 3: written by unwoman. And today's episode is not about Anderson.

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Speaker 1: That's upsetting. She is cool people who did cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: Though.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely one day, one day there's just going to be

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Speaker 3: the dog's episode.

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Speaker 1: I just read your next sentence and it's perfect.

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Speaker 2: Do it, do it.

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Speaker 3: Today's episode is about movies, Caitlin, have you ever heard

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Speaker 3: of movies?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: What are they?

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Speaker 3: Well, if you take a bunch of still pictures and

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Speaker 3: you move them very quickly, okay, the rest is beyond me,

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Speaker 3: I think. Then you claim to be the inventor even

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Speaker 3: though it was actually so many worked for you who

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Speaker 3: invented it.

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Speaker 2: If you're Thomas Edison and then oh sure, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean that makes sense if it were me, you know,

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Speaker 2: putting still images together to create the illusion of a

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Speaker 2: moving image. I would maybe do it at like twenty

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Speaker 2: four frames a second.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, no call, okay, but what about twenty

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Speaker 3: nine point ninety seven?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that happens too, because you know, if you're like

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Speaker 2: using film versus digital, like, it is probably a little different.

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Speaker 2: But again I don't know anything about it.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, So I actually am curious. I have a

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Speaker 3: feeling that you know quite a bit about movies, and

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering if you would explain to our audience your

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Speaker 3: authority on movies.

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Speaker 2: I would be happy to I lied before. I do

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Speaker 2: know some things. I do have two degrees, that's what

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Speaker 2: I was thinking. Yeah, okay, yeah, so one of them

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Speaker 2: is is just a lowly bachelor's degree and it's in

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Speaker 2: film production. And then I do have a master's degree

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Speaker 2: in screening. Screen What is it I'm writing? I'm really

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Speaker 2: tired today, screen writing from Boston University. But this is

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Speaker 2: something that I never mentioned, and that's why I like

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Speaker 2: stumbled over my words because I really first never said it.

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Speaker 1: DAYLN Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well today we're going to talk about movies, and we

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Speaker 3: are going to talk about anti fascism.

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Speaker 2: In movies even better, we're going to talk.

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Speaker 3: About in the movies themselves having anti fascist themes, but

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Speaker 3: mostly we're going to talk about the ways in which

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Speaker 3: a ton of people in Germany and Hollywood in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen twenties and thirties and a little bit into the

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Speaker 3: forties stood up to fascism and risk their reputation and

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Speaker 3: often their lives to try to stop the fucking Nazis.

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Speaker 4: Cool.

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Speaker 3: So that was why I was excited to have you

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Speaker 3: as the guest for this particular episode.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: I hope to not disappoint oh Kaylin, Yeah, no, I

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Speaker 4: I but the only other downside, right, like, like I

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Speaker 4: try to pick a guest who knows background material about

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Speaker 4: the thing that I'm talking about, but not the specific story,

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Speaker 4: and this one, I was a little bit like, Okaitlyn

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Speaker 4: might know all the things that I'm going to say,

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Speaker 4: but whatever.

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Speaker 2: We'll see.

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Speaker 1: Well, they do have a master's in screenwriting.

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Speaker 2: So it's what I hear. Actually two degrees. How did

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Speaker 2: you know that? Again, I've never said it.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's just you, just you just you just

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Speaker 1: radiate that master's in screenwriting energy.

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Speaker 3: And don't forget the unmarried degree that you have a

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Speaker 3: degree in not being married or something.

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Speaker 2: That is something I actually that's it ohe And it

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Speaker 2: was a joke. Yeah, no, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I'm not taking into your personal life on air.

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Speaker 2: I well, you're right though, I am unmarried and I

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Speaker 2: do identify as a bachelor. And when people are like, oh, like,

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Speaker 2: what do you do you have a are you single?

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Speaker 2: Do you have a partner? Are you married? And I

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Speaker 2: say no, I'm a bachelor and I am living a

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Speaker 2: bachelor's life. I like to think.

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Speaker 3: So there's anyone who can see on the zoom screen,

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Speaker 3: I see a lot of piled up takeout containers of

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Speaker 3: giant TV. That is the only piece of furniture in

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Speaker 3: the room.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't do laundry, and I know I

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Speaker 2: well I do. I can't. I don't cook, so I

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Speaker 2: do order a lot of takeout and you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: out there kissing people. And I feel like that's what

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Speaker 2: bachelors do.

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Speaker 3: I think they aspire to. They aspire to.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm doing it, so maybe have a degree in

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Speaker 2: it above exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, if I want to talk about anti fascism

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Speaker 3: in film, there's only one logical place to start. Vampires

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Speaker 3: let's talk about vampires.

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Speaker 1: Great, wait, wait, wait, very important question Margaret that I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm hoping you understand the pop culture reference.

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Speaker 2: I probably don't.

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Speaker 1: Team Jacob tam Edward.

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Speaker 2: This is a.

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Speaker 3: Twilight reference, and I don't know which one is which,

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Speaker 3: Kayle Sophia, I probably.

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Speaker 2: Don't like you don't. They are both horrible options. Edward

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Speaker 2: is Edward Cullen, of course, the vampire played by Robert Pattinson.

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Speaker 2: He is creepy and abusive and a major gas lighter

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Speaker 2: among them.

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Speaker 1: But his skin sparkles in the sun.

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Speaker 2: This is true. But now we've got.

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Speaker 1: Best line is hold on, spider Monkey.

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Speaker 2: Spider Monkey.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So.

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Speaker 2: Then we've got team Jacob. He's a warewolf.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm on team Jacob, so I usual I.

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Speaker 2: Was for a long time. And then you find out

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Speaker 2: what happens in I think it's the fourth and final

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Speaker 2: book and he falls in love with a baby.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, there's some weird. There's some weird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Best worst jacob lyone in the movie is uh, Bella,

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Speaker 1: where have you been? Loca? And I just want to

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Speaker 1: put out all these things so that you may properly pick. Also,

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Speaker 1: I really want to watch these movies with you, Margaret.

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Speaker 3: That would be fun. We should do a show, Margaret

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Speaker 3: pop culture.

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Speaker 1: I think that next time.

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Speaker 3: This isn't from the nineteenth century. How would anyone know it?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think we should do. We should do a compound

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Speaker 1: Twilight watch party.

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Speaker 2: All right, I come, yeah, my gosh, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: I request both you and one Jamie Loftus at this

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Speaker 1: event to curate it properly. We will be there. Fantastic anyways, Vampires,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So the first Hollywood vampire not Hollywood actually sorry, the

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Speaker 3: first movie series of still photos shown in rapid secession

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Speaker 3: to create the illusion of motion in life. Max Shrek,

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Speaker 3: who played the original screen vampire in No Sfaratu nineteen

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Speaker 3: twenty two. So the silent movie called nos Faratu Max Shrek.

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Speaker 3: First of all, his last name means Terror, which is cool,

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Speaker 3: Shrek means terror.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna look at the Shrek movie so differently now,

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Speaker 2: and do you trust me?

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Speaker 3: I look at the Shrek movies. I absolutely believe you. So,

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Speaker 3: so Max Shrek the actor, not the character.

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Speaker 2: Max does not it.

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Speaker 3: Max Shrek is Max Terror, which is the punk ist

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Speaker 3: fucking name, right. Yeah, And it fits because he was

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Speaker 3: a punk, fucking guy, and this is a guy he

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Speaker 3: paid played Count Overlock in nineteen twenty twos Knows Faratu.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about that film in a minute, but we're

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Speaker 3: gonna sort of he's gonna be a little character that's

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Speaker 3: going to show us through nineteen twenties and thirties Berlin,

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Speaker 3: the time when I secretly wish I lived, even though

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Speaker 3: it would have ended terribly. Also would have been terrible

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Speaker 3: the entire time.

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Speaker 2: From I think, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: He was born in eighteen seventy six to some civil

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Speaker 3: servants in Germany. I think his dad was like a

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Speaker 3: type a topographer, oring like that, and his dad didn't

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Speaker 3: want him to act, but his mother slipped him money

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Speaker 3: and he went off to go to acting classes. And

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Speaker 3: this guy is like an actor's actor. He got his

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Speaker 3: start in traveling troops, going around from town to town.

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Speaker 3: He slowly moved up to like some playing some cities,

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Speaker 3: and the end he ends up winding up playing the

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Speaker 3: most respected theaters in Germany. But he's never the central

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Speaker 3: starring character, right. He works from the shadows. He took

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Speaker 3: on almost eight hundred roles over the course of his life,

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Speaker 3: and he would photograph himself in the costume of each one,

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Speaker 3: like each role, which is fucking cool. People only found

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Speaker 3: those photos recently or something.

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Speaker 2: Oh cool.

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Speaker 3: He lived a quiet life with his wife, who was

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Speaker 3: an actress, and they had no kids, and his friends

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Speaker 3: describe him I'm totally not describing a vampire here. His

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Speaker 3: friends describe him as very remote. He lives in his

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Speaker 3: own world. He spends hours walking through the darkest forests

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Speaker 3: he can find. Nice And there's only one biography of him,

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Speaker 3: and it's from two thousand and nine, and it's just

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Speaker 3: kind of a list of all the places he played.

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Speaker 3: It's not really about his life because no one knows

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Speaker 3: anything about his fucking life, Okay, because he was just

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Speaker 3: this like reserved, quiet actor who would go out and

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Speaker 3: play every night for his entire life, and.

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Speaker 2: Then he'd go into a dark forest and stroll around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and apparently mountains too. I found one reference

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Speaker 3: to he liked hanging out in the mountains in an

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Speaker 3: obituary of him. But he was a quiet man and

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Speaker 3: also an anti fascist man, because the world's first screen

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Speaker 3: vampire was played by a committed anti fascist in the

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Speaker 3: Weimart and early Nazi era in the sort of anti

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Speaker 3: fascist theater and film scene. And this was huge, a

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Speaker 3: lot of stuff. I mean, actually, there's one time period

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Speaker 3: that doesn't get to depoliticized. It's like the rise of

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Speaker 3: Nazi Germany. But overall people still talk about like theater

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Speaker 3: and film as in sort of depoliticized terms. And so

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Speaker 3: that's what I'm going to try and undo here today.

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Speaker 2: Cool.

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Speaker 3: So they developed entire styles of performance, the anti fascist

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Speaker 3: theater and film scenes, and expressionist horror and theater are

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Speaker 3: two of those styles. Have you heard of of these styles?

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Speaker 3: I don't know what, you know. It's like I look

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Speaker 3: at these things and I'm like, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: gets talked about it.

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Speaker 2: Is it like German expressionism or is that yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: yeah I'm familiar, not deeply, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no totally. So they go on to influence fucking everything,

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Speaker 3: especially German expressionism in specific. And since I like making

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Speaker 3: grand statements that I can only partially defend, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to go ahead and claim that film noir and modern

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Speaker 3: Hollywood horror are descendants of a direct lineage of anti

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Speaker 3: fascist filmmaking.

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Speaker 2: Mmmm.

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Speaker 3: Max shrek by By one article I could find in

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Speaker 3: addition to his film and theater work. He was a

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Speaker 3: bouncer for Pertult Brex Theater Company. So fucking count Orlock

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Speaker 3: the Vampire. I mean, he probably didn't do it in

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Speaker 3: the count Orlock outfit, but I prefer to imagine.

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Speaker 2: It'll rewrite history and say that he did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, have you have you seen Sarato? I'm really not

300
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Speaker 3: trying to put you on the spot about film shit.

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Speaker 3: I guess I am accidentally.

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Speaker 2: Look, I I'll say every movie I've ever seen on

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Speaker 2: this episode. No, but I have seen No Fratu. It

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Speaker 2: was in my when I was getting my degree in

305
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Speaker 2: being unmarried. Yeah again, hilarious joke that I am very funny.

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Speaker 2: I truly loved it. And then I've also seen Shadow

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Speaker 2: of a Vampire. Yeah, pretty cool movie. Yeah, but yes

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Speaker 2: I've seen Nou.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's creepy looking as fuck, right, anyone who hasn't

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Speaker 3: seen this, you've You might even recognize it if you

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00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 3: see stills from it. Not you, you've seen it. But

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Speaker 3: like anyone listening is instead of the like most vampires

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Speaker 3: we see in Hollywood and stuff, sparkle in the daylight

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Speaker 3: and gently abuse their romantic partners. Count Orlock, I haven't

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Speaker 3: reatt enough. Twilight to make that claim as a specific

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Speaker 3: thing about what happens in Twilight. I don't know, but

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Speaker 3: count Orlock is a creepy monster, right, count Overlock looks

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Speaker 3: inhuman and like runs around with like long fingers and

320
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Speaker 3: this super fucking creepy and cool. M So I just like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's this is who I like to imagine bouncing for

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Speaker 3: Bertolt Breckt, and in particular, basically what was happening is

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Speaker 3: Bertolt Brecht was a Marxist and was making very political

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Speaker 3: theater and Nazis would come and try and fuck it up,

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Speaker 3: and so it had to be bounced very actively. So

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Speaker 3: this wasn't a very like passive job just being like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm a bouncer. It was like, it's like if The Proud.

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Speaker 2: Boys was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I'm going to use that to talk

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Speaker 3: about Bret, right, He's my framing character, Max Shrek, Max

331
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Speaker 3: Maximum Terror. Bertolt Brecht was this theater director and a

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Speaker 3: Marxist who was really upfront about his political engagement and

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Speaker 3: so the Nazi brown shirts fucking hated him and they

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Speaker 3: were always trying to shut him down. And Brett was

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Speaker 3: into a movement called epic theater, the idea that and

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Speaker 3: this is actually I see a lot of influences once

337
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,280
Speaker 3: I read what this is about. The idea is that

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Speaker 3: the viewer shouldn't just blindly identify with the characters of

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Speaker 3: the thing that they're watching, and instead they should It

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Speaker 3: was kind of cool because this whole point was to

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Speaker 3: do political theater, but it was in this kind of

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Speaker 3: counter propaganda way where he's like, I want the viewer

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Speaker 3: to have to think about what's happening instead of just

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Speaker 3: accepting the themes and the concepts that are being presented

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Speaker 3: to them, and so watching the piece should cause the

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Speaker 3: viewer to criticize how they feel about what's happening. And

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Speaker 3: some of the ways that he used to do that

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Speaker 3: was to avoid climactic catharsis, which leaves the viewer complacent

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Speaker 3: in his point of view. And it's interesting to me

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Speaker 3: because I have this thing where I watch modern movies

351
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Speaker 3: and I kind of hate the climax of the film

352
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Speaker 3: every single time. But that's usually because I kind of

353
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Speaker 3: like action movies, and I hate action movie climaxes because

354
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Speaker 3: it's just fifteen minutes of the same shit we've already seen,

355
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Speaker 3: devoid of.

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Speaker 2: Right, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: The other way that he would do this, and epic

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Speaker 3: theater is breaking the fourth wall because you're reminding the

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Speaker 3: viewer that they are consuming media.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things I was realizing was was

362
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Speaker 3: researching all of this, I would have paid so much

363
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Speaker 3: more attention in art history class if people talked about

364
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Speaker 3: like why these various art movements existed instead of just

365
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 3: being like epic theater wanted people to remember that they

366
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Speaker 3: were consuming media, so they would break the fourth wall

367
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Speaker 3: instead being like epic theater came out of the rise

368
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Speaker 3: of Nazism, and it was people trying to help people

369
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Speaker 3: fight against the propaganda that they were being fed, and

370
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Speaker 3: so they wanted people to question media, and so they

371
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Speaker 3: figured out how to put it into the fucking media itself.

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Speaker 2: Hmm you really, Yeah, that would have been nice also, yeah,

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Speaker 2: learn about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And I don't know, Like I'm curious because

375
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Speaker 3: I suspect that you went further into these degrees. For example,

376
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Speaker 3: then I have my two years of undergrad and art

377
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Speaker 3: that I never finished or cared about because I didn't

378
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,360
Speaker 3: care about these art movements that they were talking about

379
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 3: because they were just so deep, not just depoliticized, but dehumanized.

380
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,199
Speaker 3: They were just like and this is the way that

381
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Speaker 3: these people painted the following river, and that was the

382
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Speaker 3: Hudson River School, because they were at the Hudson River,

383
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Speaker 3: and here are the pretty pictures of the river, and

384
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 3: they're very pretty pictures of the river.

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Speaker 2: I will say that a number of film classes that

386
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Speaker 2: I took, I learned more about American history in those

387
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 2: classes because the teachers often did, like contextualize, and this

388
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Speaker 2: is why this movement in cinema happened as a response

389
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Speaker 2: to like McCarthyism or so. I learned more about different

390
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 2: pieces of American history in those and obviously like more

391
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Speaker 2: modern American history, but like I learned more about that

392
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Speaker 2: in film classes than I did in history classes, because

393
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Speaker 2: up until that point I had just learned, like, I

394
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Speaker 2: don't know, I grew up in like a small town

395
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 2: where no it's just I don't know, not not agreat,

396
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: not great education I got. So they did, Yeah, so

397
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 2: they all this to say, they did contextualize, Uh, just

398
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 2: film me crements and stuff quite a bit. That's cool story. Yeah, okay, yeah, no, I.

399
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 3: I I don't know. It makes me care about the

400
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 3: stuff when I have these hooks into it you know, totally,

401
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 3: and it made obviously these people care about it too, right,

402
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 3: like that was part of They cared about both things

403
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 3: is what was so interesting to me. They absolutely cared

404
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 3: about different different leftism or just anti fascism, and also

405
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 3: they cared about figuring out art and shit. I don't know, shit,

406
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 3: I'm clearly very good at totally graduated with money. We're scholars, Yeah, yeah, exactly,

407
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 3: definitely not pop entertainment producers. And so okay, So Brett

408
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 3: sadly his kid wound up, one of his kids wound

409
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 3: but Nazi who then died on the Eastern Front. So

410
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 3: sort of break even, you become a Nazi. Nazi games,

411
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 3: Nazi prizes, they go together. Sure, But Breckt himself fled

412
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty three after Hitler's rise to power. He

413
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 3: came to the US, whereupon he was treated like shit

414
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 3: for being a communist. He got caught up in the

415
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 3: Red Scare, and he did end up actually wind up

416
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 3: kind of snitching into the House of on American Activities.

417
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 3: He was like one of like the Hollywood ten, of

418
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 3: these ten filmmakers who were accused of being communists. And

419
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 3: in Breck's case, it was true right. He was a

420
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 3: communist ye, and all of his peers refused to talk,

421
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: and he kind of was like, but he named names.

422
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what he said. I didn't get

423
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 3: enough far into specifically this, but he did it go

424
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Speaker 3: at least and go talk to them, and his like

425
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 3: theory and the thing that he did was he was like, no,

426
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 3: I got to get the fuck out of this country.

427
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 3: And so he was I presume he was just a

428
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 3: so he goes and he like goes and does, goes

429
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 3: and talks to them and then gets the fuck out

430
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 3: of the country again. He also he's kind of interesting.

431
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 3: He wasn't super consistent in his anti tootalitarianism. One of

432
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 3: his main actresses, Carolina Naher, was caught up in Stalin's

433
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 3: Great Purge. Everyone who wasn't the right kind of communist

434
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 3: got like dragged off to gulags, and Bret.

435
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: Was like, uh, I don't don't know her.

436
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 3: What's up, like just kind of ignored her suffering under Stalin,

437
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 3: and she died in a gulug and brecked himself wind

438
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 3: up living in East Germany after the war, where he

439
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 3: was critical of the Soviet government. Sort of he was

440
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 3: like oh, I totally love you. You're great, don't murder me.

441
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: And then he would be like, here's some poems about

442
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 3: why the government sucks.

443
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 2: I don't know whatever.

444
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 3: Breckt cool theater guy, slightly disappointing in some personal levels

445
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 3: or political levels. Sure, back to Shrek are our thread.

446
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 2: My favorite phrase, especially in reference to the green ogre.

447
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, do you know, we're also happy to hear

448
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 2: about Max.

449
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 3: I read something that said that they named Shrek after

450
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 3: Max Shrek, but I is there any do you have

451
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 3: any idea?

452
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: I have no idea. The spelling is not the same.

453
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 2: Max Shrek has two extra SE's in his name. Yeah,

454
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: it's just at the end. Yeah, I don't I don't know.

455
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: But let's again, let's rewrite history and say that.

456
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, yeah, and they just americanized it by cutting

457
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 3: out extra letters. The americanization exactly. Shrek performed for Bract,

458
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 3: I believe, and then also hung out with other anti

459
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 3: fascists as well. He performed for Airwind Piscatour, who, besides

460
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 3: Brect was the main epic theater guy. So the break

461
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 3: the fourth wall question everything, think for yourselves. We're all individuals.

462
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: I'm not, and fuck I'm in a mony Python reference.

463
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: I think I have to quit. I'm done.

464
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 2: I didn't even I didn't even catch that.

465
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't catch it. But I accept your resignation.

466
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's only fair. Let me just Caitlyn. I'm gonna

467
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 3: send you over the script and you can.

468
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 2: Can't kit you can take over. Maybe I should.

469
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll finish this one out and then i'll and then.

470
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: Why don't why don't we go to an ad break

471
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: and you can collect yourself out out of the ground.

472
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: Okay, come back for an accountability process about.

473
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: All right?

474
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 3: You know who won't hold you accountable capitalism. Capitalism wants

475
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 3: you to do everything that he wants you. Okay, here's

476
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: some ads. We are back, and we are talking about

477
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 3: nothing wrong that I did, but we instead we were

478
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 3: talking about Erwin Piscator m hm. And he, like a

479
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 3: lot of the directors and ship that we're going to

480
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 3: talk about, right, fought in the trenches in World War

481
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 3: One and he came back hating war, which is really

482
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: hard to imagine someone fighting in World War One having negative.

483
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: And then eating war.

484
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: I know he must have just ungrateful. I think he

485
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: came back ungrateful. Yeah, but he didn't hate war enough

486
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: to not go and throw down in the November Revolution

487
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighteen when Germany got itself democracy. So he

488
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: came back being like, I'm anti war, I mean, except

489
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: this very necessary war to have democracy. So he's pretty cool.

490
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 3: And he was in the Communist Party. He staged films

491
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 3: by communists and anarchists. I really just included this line

492
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 3: so I can get Tolstoy in here, because Tolstoy has

493
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 3: to show up and everything I do for no good reason.

494
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 3: I don't even have strong feelings about this guy. But

495
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: he staged some plays by Tolstoy, and he literally directed

496
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 3: a play I want to see this play at some

497
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: point called Oil Boom in nineteen twenty eight that was

498
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: against the colonial and environmentally destructive production of oil, which

499
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: I had no idea people were talking about nineteen twenty eight.

500
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: Then yeah, all right.

501
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it worked. One hundred years later, we don't

502
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: have the colonial or environmentally destructive practice of oil extraction.

503
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 2: And thank goodness for that. Yeah.

504
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: For some odd reason, Erwin left Germany in the nineteen thirties,

505
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 3: and he went around and lived a ton of different places,

506
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 3: including New York City and he taught at the New School.

507
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 3: This is like part of how I'm tying all the

508
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: threads together of how these people influenced fucking everything he

509
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: taught at the New School, including with students including Marlon

510
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 3: Brando and Tennessee Williams. And then he left the US

511
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: because of anti communism. So it's basically all of these

512
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 3: like German directors are like, oh fuck the Nazis, and

513
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: they get to the US and they're like, oh fuck,

514
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: oh no, the Usians.

515
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

516
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it all comes back to McCarthyism, as I

517
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: brilliantly mentioned earlier. So it's very well done.

518
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: If you have any actually, because I only know the like,

519
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: I'll touch on some of this, but if you ever

520
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: want to, like talk more about McCarthyism and House of

521
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: an American and all that shit this relates to Hollywood,

522
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: please interrupt me and talk about this.

523
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: I don't know that much about it, so I would

524
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: I'm a fraud actually.

525
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well, I feel really good that I set

526
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: you up to could admit that, thank you.

527
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

528
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so he ends up back in West Germany.

529
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: So it's like, you know, because he's a little bit

530
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 3: I don't know it seems like he was like more

531
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: on the democracy side of things than the Stalin side

532
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 3: of things, and so Shrek he rolls with. This guy

533
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: plays at his theater. He probably bounced the more Nazis

534
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 3: there too. I don't actually know, but I in my

535
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: head canon he also is a bouncer at each of

536
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 3: these places and continues to dress like Orlock, or maybe

537
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: actually the Orlock was the non costume and that the

538
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: rest was the costumes when he was dressing up.

539
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: To the normal Are you sure sure? Let's go with that?

540
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: And then he played at my favorite place that he

541
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: played an anti fascist cabaret, because this man cannot miss.

542
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 3: He performed specifically at Erica Man's anti fascist cabaret called

543
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 3: the pepper Mill, which I won't try to pronounce in German. Okay,

544
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: Erica Man. I'd never heard of Erica Man, and I

545
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: after writing this script, I was like, I wish I'd

546
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 3: just done Erica Man, like she's so fucking cool. I mean,

547
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 3: like I like Max Shrek, and I like this vampire

548
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: through line just to continue to break the fourth wall

549
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: of how I write script so that you all can

550
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 3: think for yourself about the propaganda that I'm feeding you

551
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: so wow, Erica Man theater right now, right? Yeah, exactly.

552
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: So Erica Mann is the son of Thomas Mann, who's

553
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 3: this Nobel prize winning author who is pretty interesting. But

554
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: life is short, so I'm not gonna he's anti Nazi.

555
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: He's good in that way. I don't know about him

556
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 3: to claim he's a good person at all. Erica Man

557
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 3: gay as hell. If you look at a photo of her,

558
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 3: you'll be like, oh, that lady's gay as hell. And

559
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: the first play she acted in was basically a gay polycule.

560
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: It was this play in Weimar, Germany about four friends

561
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 3: who were all in love with each other, two men

562
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: and two women. And not only was the play about that,

563
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: but that was the actors as well. The both the

564
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 3: two women were dating, both the two men were dating,

565
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: and each woman was dating one of the men.

566
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: Okay, so a lot of threuttles.

567
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, like complicated, like building multiple threatles out of a cubical. Sure,

568
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: this is why people don't have relationships with four people,

569
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: because then they'd be cubicles.

570
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 2: Mmmm wait would that be six? How many cube has six?

571
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: Eight?

572
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: Eight?

573
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: A square? Yeah, but it had, but but it's four people.

574
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: A cube has eight?

575
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: Uh?

576
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: For intersections. Oh yes, I mean my master's I don't know. Again,

577
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 2: wouldn't ever talk about it. It is in screenwriting and

578
00:29:54,520 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: not geometry. I almost said geography. Yeah, fair enough. Again,

579
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: I'm a scholar. I'm a scholar. I'm really smart.

580
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, okay, So eric, amn uh six there's okay,

581
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: but there's there's eight corners?

582
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: Are there not eight corners to a cube on two? Four?

583
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 4: Wait, dude, where are six sides?

584
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah?

585
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, six.

586
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: I know you're right, there are there are eight corners. Yeah,

587
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: six sides. So which one is more applicable to the metaphor? Ooh,

588
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: I we're gonna have to get like a physicist in

589
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: here or something.

590
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: In my degree is in psychology. I'm a bow out.

591
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, you can just tell people why this is

592
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: a bad idea to have that kind of or maybe

593
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: it's a very good idea. Triangle is the strongest shape

594
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: after all.

595
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: Okay.

596
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: So she has two honeymoons at the same hotel. She

597
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: goes first with the like man she's married or whatever,

598
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 3: and then she goes with the woman that she's married

599
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: illegally like on the side, and the woman that she

600
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 3: marries like checks into the hotel dressed asm Man, and

601
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: she dates a who's who of lesbian Weimar Germany cabaret people.

602
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: And she acted in a nineteen thirty one film about

603
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: lesbianism that's just a documentary about lesbianism. And she was

604
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: a committed and active anti fascist as well, and she

605
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: kept getting fired for her work trying to stop Nazis

606
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: from recruiting people. The rest of her family are known

607
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 3: anti fascists, and while they're Protestant, they have Jewish ancestry,

608
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: and so most of her family, the rest of her

609
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: family's already fucked off, and by nineteen thirty five, she's

610
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: the last girl standing from her family, her whole big

611
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: anti fascist family still in Germany. Her uncle Heinrichmand was

612
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: literally the first person that the Nazis stripped of German citizenship,

613
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: like the Nazis hated the man's and then oh except

614
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: actually this contradicts because then her and her brother started something.

615
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: Maybe her brother hadn't fucked off yet. I love reading

616
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: all of these like weird translated things that I try

617
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: to find like because everything contradicts with itself. Right, her

618
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: and her brother and her girlfriend and another friend start

619
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: an anti fascist cabaret the above mentioned pepper mill in

620
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: July nineteen thirty three. She writes most of the material,

621
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: they get the name from their dad, who's like, you know,

622
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 3: when people are talking about like nineties band names, they're like,

623
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: I don't even know, just like look at the nearest object,

624
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 3: and that's the name of your band, like sewing machine,

625
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: dishwasher or whatever. Right, that's how they got their fucking

626
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: band name, their cabaret.

627
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: Okay, their dad was what was it, pepper mill.

628
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 3: The pepper Yeah, the pepper mill. Their dad was like

629
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: kind of I think, basically trolling them and was like, whatever,

630
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: just call it, I don't know any gestures at the

631
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: table and he's like, uh, the pepper mill.

632
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,239
Speaker 4: All right.

633
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: So it worked.

634
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets called legendary a lot. I'd never heard

635
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: of the pepper mill, but apparently it's a very big deal. Okay, Yeah,

636
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 3: everything is refers to the legendary pepper mill. Maybe they

637
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: wrote that into that, they didn't write it into the name.

638
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: And our man Shrek big Green Ogre was there, the

639
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: Quiet Vampire, and he performed there a whole fucking bunch,

640
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: right because he just showed up to everything that was

641
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: anti fascist and acted and then went home to his

642
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: wife and then wandered around the dark forests.

643
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: And also was so he would perform in some theaters

644
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: and then be the bouncer at others.

645
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: So I'm having the hardest time. I only have one

646
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: article that references the fact that he bounced, and I

647
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: know the author of that is someone who has access

648
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: to a lot of languages that I don't. The author

649
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,239
Speaker 3: of that speaks fucking shit ton of languages. So I

650
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 3: was unable to find more information about his bouncing. I

651
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: found a lot more information about his acting than his bouncing,

652
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: but I don't know. So in my mind, I'm like,

653
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 3: I only have one source, Therefore it is not true

654
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: because I've become that kind of paranoid pop historian. Actually,

655
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 3: that probably makes me a very bad pop historian. I

656
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: should probably just make thanks great. Oh, okay, thanks, I

657
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: appreciate that anytime.

658
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: Pepper Mill only only last two months, it managed to

659
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: become legendary in the two months it exists. The Nazis

660
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: shut it down. Did for them?

661
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they get the fuck out and they get the

662
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 3: fuck out of Germany. And there's competing sources about exactly

663
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: what happens at this point, but it sounds like the

664
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 3: whole thing. Moved probably without Shrek to Zurich for a

665
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 3: while m hm, and she she's like, all right, I

666
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: get the fuck out of here. And so she finds

667
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: a gay dude in England and is like, hey, you

668
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: want to get married, like real romantic. You can do

669
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: whatever you want. I can do whatever I want. And

670
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 3: he's like, yeah, totally, I'll get married. And then he

671
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: was like, cool, do you have a gay friend I

672
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 3: can set my girlfriend up with and.

673
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: He does mm hmm.

674
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 3: And so I love the gay poly world. That helped

675
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 3: get people out of fucking Nazi Germany. And they moved

676
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 3: to England. And at this point I'd love to even

677
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: just be like happily ever after, but she kept fucking

678
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 3: doing shit. Her and her brother reported on the Spanish

679
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: Civil War. She wrote a whole bunch of anti Nazi books.

680
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: When World War II broke out, she was like, yeah,

681
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: I got I got fucking help. We got a fucking

682
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: deal with these fucking Nazis. So she worked in radio

683
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 3: and worked for the BBC, speaking in German, basically like

684
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 3: doing counterpropaganda against the Nazis. She became a war correspondent.

685
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 3: She was like one of the first people on the

686
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: ground at like all these like liberated German cities. And

687
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: later she moved to the US, where she was treated

688
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 3: like shit and investigated by the FBI because she was

689
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 3: a lefty or whatever. And even worse than being a lefty,

690
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: she was gay. So she moved to Switzerland where she

691
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 3: lived the rest of her days. And I'm really glad

692
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: that our gay, anti fascist Jewish heritage lady survives the.

693
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: End of the war.

694
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know what you're thinking to yourself, what

695
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 3: does this have to do with vampires? Everything has to

696
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: do with vampires.

697
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't I've seen the connection, is cris Day? Great? Yeah,

698
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: well then in nineteen twenty just for anyone in any listeners,

699
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, you know who haven't.

700
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did the dots yet. I mean, what I

701
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: find interesting about it right is like it doesn't specifically

702
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: have to do a vampire myth inherently, but like this idea.

703
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 3: These people are famous for their entertainment, most of these

704
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: people Max Shrek certainly famous for nos Faratu and not

705
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 3: for anti fascism, But this idea that like entertainment and

706
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 3: myth and storytelling and horror and all of that they're

707
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: not actually divorced from life, you know, sure, and that's like,

708
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 3: that's the thing that gets to be really excited about

709
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 3: this shit. I'm making weird eyes at the camera because

710
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 3: I'm like over excited. Yeah, one hundred years ago, on

711
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: this very night, that parts a lie. In nineteen twenty two,

712
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: a German expressionist horror film called nos Faratu was released

713
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 3: and it was put together by a studio called Prana Films,

714
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 3: and it was their first film, and it was their

715
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 3: last film because it was really obviously a ripoff. It

716
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 3: was obviously bram Stoker's Dracula with the serial numbers rubbed off.

717
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: It was apparently advertise basically as hey, check it out.

718
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: We've got a film that's Dracula with the serial numbers

719
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 3: rubbed off. We changed the names, huh, And.

720
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 2: That didn't work.

721
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: Bram Stoker was dead or undead at this point, but

722
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 3: his widow wasn't Florence Balcom and she's like, hey, you

723
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 3: know what, fuck this, fuck you, I'm suing. I owned Dracula,

724
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: my husband wrote it. Prana Films declares bankruptcy because they

725
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 3: couldn't afford to pay and most of the copies of

726
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: the film were destroyed, but as an article in the

727
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 3: New European put it, fortunately for posterity, if not copyright law,

728
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: the film reappeared in the late nineteen twenties, when a

729
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 3: handful of surviving prints emerged in far flung places, cut

730
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 3: clumsily and with intertitles in different languages, but enough to

731
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 3: save one of history's great cinematic achievements from oblivion.

732
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: I assumed that they, I didn't know any of that,

733
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: and I assumed that, you know, they had just acquired

734
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: the rights to adapt in no Dracula narrative. I guess not.

735
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of a shitty move. I have like

736
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: mixed feelings about copyright in general, but like especially the

737
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: fact that they were Like I had always assumed that

738
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: they had rubbed the serial numbers off and then like

739
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 3: tried to downplay its connections to Dracula. But apparently the

740
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: way that the widow Florence, the way she finds out

741
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 3: about it is like an anonymous person sends her like

742
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 3: a promotional flyer that's like, come see technically not Dracula,

743
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 3: you know, all right, Yeah, So it's because of this

744
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: that people rescued count Overlock. I mean knows fratu that

745
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 3: we know Max Shrek today, and there were all of

746
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: these rumors that he never existed. There were these rumors

747
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: that he was a false persona of another more famous

748
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: actor who was also super cool and anti fascist.

749
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: But is short, wait, that Max Shrek never agested.

750
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, that there was no Max Shrek, and that's

751
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: almost certainly not true. He was just such a minor character.

752
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 3: He was like this like behind the scenes guy. He's

753
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 3: just this quiet guy who acts right. But then in

754
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty three, a surrealist writer named a Donnis Krum

755
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 3: suggested that Shrek himself might have been a vampire who

756
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 3: is hired to play the vampire, which of course gets

757
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: turned into another sick movie, The Shadow of the Vampire,

758
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: which came out in the Ear of Our Lord two thousand,

759
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: which is worth seeing also and possibly a documentary.

760
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: And actually probably a documentary, yeah.

761
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, a biopic, I think so. Yeah. And I find

762
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 3: that surrealists don't lie.

763
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: They are known for depicting things very realistically.

764
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, as they are sir actually means more than

765
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 3: real in German.

766
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, very very very realism.

767
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, no lies realism. Yeah. Max Shrek ostensibly died of

768
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 3: heart failure when he was fifty seven in nineteen thirty six. Obviously,

769
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: of course he became an anti fascist vampire who single

770
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 3: handedly brought down the Nazis, but that's a story for

771
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: another time. The previous night, the last night of his

772
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: regular life, he performed on stage, and then he checked

773
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: himself into the hospital. And then he died the next morning,

774
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 3: and he was buried in an unmarked grave next to

775
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: his mother. And I don't know, like, like, there's like

776
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: not that much about this guy. But I feel like,

777
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: just like this, like you live your life. You're the quiet,

778
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 3: shadowy actor. You got one big starring role that like

779
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 3: rewrites filmic history, and then you like fight Nazis and

780
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: hang out in the woods. Like I feel like that's

781
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 3: a fucking good life.

782
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 2: That's a great life. And yeah, you think there'd be

783
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: that he'd I mean, he left a legacy, but that

784
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: like more people would know about her, that there'd be

785
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: more written about, more biographies. Yeah, I don't know. I

786
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 2: didn't know anything of this about about Shrek. The only

787
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 2: the only thing I know about Shrek is that he's

788
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: a green ogre with a donkey friend. Yeah, and that's

789
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: not the same Shrek a heart made out of gold

790
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: onions exactly. Yeah, I really like the Shrek movies. But

791
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: I don't remember is a Twilight thing? Wait? What really

792
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: in the first movie? All right? Right, Sophia might write

793
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: about this. In the first movie when Bello Swan is

794
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: trying to she's like kind of getting to know Edward Cullen,

795
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: but he's being really.

796
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: The first time. He especially creepy, like she thinks that

797
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: she smells.

798
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: Because he's he's hungry for human blood.

799
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: He just wants to eat her and he can't read

800
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: her mind. It's a whole thing. Their their lab partner,

801
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: Lab partners.

802
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 2: Okay, and the prize.

803
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: Because he's under he's a teenager, but he's actually a

804
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: hundred twenty something or whatever years old, and that's sketchy.

805
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: She says to him, how old are you? He goes,

806
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm seventeen, and she goes, hollo ben so and then

807
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: he's like, oh god, God, we really need to do

808
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: this movie night.

809
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 2: But they meet because they're lab partners in biology class

810
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: or whatever and teachers.

811
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: I dissect it pretty close.

812
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: The teacher's like, hey, learn about photosynthesis or whatever, and

813
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: so they're like looking at little at stuff the microscope,

814
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: and then the prize for whoever does photosynthesis. The best,

815
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 2: I don't know is a golden onion.

816
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: So it's all arow.

817
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 3: It all goes back to our man, Max Shrek Maximum Terror,

818
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 3: Maximilian Terror properly. Okay, Well, uh, I know what you're thinking, Caitlin.

819
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 3: You're thinking you're talking about the knockoff track. Sorry, I

820
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: have to go back to my script. Tell my dumb

821
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: joke even it no longer flows correctly. You're thinking, that's

822
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: the knockoff Dracula. What about the real Dracula Bela Lagosi,

823
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: who started as Count Dracula on Broadway in nineteen twenty

824
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 3: seven and in the Universal Pictures nineteen thirty one Hollywood Dracula.

825
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: I was thinking, yeah, okay, cool.

826
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that was exactly what I was thinking. But

827
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: you know, you know what else I was thinking about,

828
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: Margaret was that we need Caitlin to give us a

829
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: good sponsor.

830
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 3: Oh, that's true. We're out of sponsors. We need a

831
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 3: good idea for like a Yeah.

832
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: Previous sponsors that we have chosen for this show are potatoes,

833
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: the concept of potatoes. Yeah, clean, clean, tap water and

834
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: always cool pillow A front of the pod bridget Todd said,

835
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 1: a really good comb.

836
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, how about oh gosh, I know so much pressure,

837
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 2: I'm cracking. How about a tasty piece of I was

838
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: gonna say toast, but that I don't know. That's just

839
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 2: the first thing I thought of. I was too busy.

840
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: I was too busy trying to make a joke about

841
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: bella logo si Bella Swan. And then that's where my

842
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: mind was.

843
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: I feel I feel like Kit then wants the podcast

844
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: to be sponsored by the toilet here.

845
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 3: All right, we can be.

846
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 5: I don't condone that, but what about what about like

847
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 5: a really good movie, just the concept of a really

848
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 5: good concept of r r R, the concept of r

849
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 5: R There we are there, you go there, we.

850
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: Are are are rr. Okay, I'll stop.

851
00:44:53,960 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the meds. We are back, and we're talking

852
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,439
Speaker 3: about the fact that while Caitlin was thinking bellis Swan,

853
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: I was thinking Bella Legosi is Dead by the by

854
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: Bauhaus and didn't know about bellas Swan's Belliswan from Twilight. Yes, yes, okay, cool.

855
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: I really need to do that movie night.

856
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 3: I know pop culture. I just know pop culture that

857
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 3: is not pop culture, but goth culture. From the nineteen eighties.

858
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 3: It's true. I know songs that work came up that

859
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: were from before I was capable of coherent thought.

860
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Yeah, and now you know who Bella Swan is.

861
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 3: That's right, it was Belliswan, one of the vampires.

862
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 2: Was that spoiler? Well, it's yeah, it's just she's the

863
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 2: cool question. It's a it's a yes, exactly, it's a

864
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: difficult it's the lead. Difficult answer.

865
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: Okay, the lead. Okay, she is Twilight in Twilight. Well,

866
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 3: her precursor to the the filmic interpretation of vampires, bel Legosi,

867
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 3: was Hungarian, much like Belliswan. Born in eighteen eighty two.

868
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: Like Belliswan, ran away from a conservative household when he

869
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: was twelve to become an actor like Belliswan. But this

870
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 3: is actually where the similarities end. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,

871
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 3: I know.

872
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 2: I had twelve, I know, and things were wild in

873
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 2: the turn of the century.

874
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 3: This guy was fucking tough, like this guy rules. He

875
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: runs away from home. He wants to be an actor,

876
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 3: but it's not like, oh great, you're an actor school

877
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: now and you get to be an actor. He works

878
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 3: at various blue collar work as a laborer while he

879
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 3: sorts all that out. Eventually ends up a silent movie

880
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 3: film actor in the nineteen tens in Hungary until World

881
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: War One, when he volunteers as a ski fighter and

882
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 3: he works his way up in the ranks as a

883
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 3: ski fighter. He's not fighting, he's on skis.

884
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: What that is a thing? Yeah?

885
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, totally soldiers on skis. Yeah, because there's snow,

886
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: you're in the mountains, sure, yeah, okay. He gets wounded

887
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 3: in action several times, and at one point he was

888
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 3: trapped falling on this probably yeah. And then a very

889
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 3: common accident happened to him that has happened to everyone

890
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 3: when they're at the ski slopes, which was that he

891
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 3: was trapped under a mound of corpses. Ah uh, And

892
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 3: for some odd, unknowable reason he got what was called

893
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 3: shell shock back then but we now call PTSD, possibly

894
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: related to being buried under a pile of corpses.

895
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: Could be.

896
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 3: World War One doesn't last forever. Nineteen nineteen comes around

897
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 3: and him and a bunch of his buddies, an awful

898
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: lot of his buddies like the whole working class of

899
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 3: Hungary kind of, They decide to overthrow capitalism, so he

900
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 3: goes and he overthrows capitalism.

901
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: They win for a moment.

902
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 3: One hundred and thirty three days you have the Hungarian

903
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 3: Soviet and this is nineteen nineteen, so it's like kind

904
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: of before before the promise of the Soviet Union did

905
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 3: not live up to its promise.

906
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: I will put it that way.

907
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: That's my most diplomatic attempt to phrase that. Sure, And

908
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 3: so for one hundred and thirty three days they had

909
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: the Hungarian Soviet and bel Legosi fought in That was

910
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 3: because he was a proud union man. He was a

911
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 3: member of a locksmith union and a laborer union, and

912
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 3: later he helped form an actors union. And he specifically

913
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: who was like against all of the weird hierarchy and

914
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 3: shit within the acting move scene in Hungary. And he

915
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 3: has his quote, the former ruling class kept the community

916
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 3: of actors in ignorance by means of various lies, corrupted

917
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 3: it morally and materially, and finally scorned and despised it

918
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 3: for what resulted from its own vices. The actor, subsisting

919
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 3: on starvation wages and demoralized, was often driven driven, albeit reluctantly,

920
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 3: to place himself at the disposal of the ruling class.

921
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 3: Martyrdom was the price of enthusiasm for acting. So if

922
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 3: you want to be an actor, you gotta like get

923
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 3: treated like shit. And I think that this is not

924
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 3: something that happens now. I don't think that people go

925
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: and get treated like shit by the industry just because

926
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: they love acting.

927
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: Right, that's changed. Actors are famously treated so well, especially

928
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 2: the ones who are still obstensively working class. Yeah no,

929
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: they're they're they're gods among humans. Yeah, that's they're treating

930
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 2: that way. Yeah, No, that's amazing. Yeah, the industry doesn't

931
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: chew you up and spit you out.

932
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 3: No, why would it do that. That doesn't seem like

933
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 3: it would work against his own interests.

934
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

935
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, dry humor with Margaret and Katon. So that the

936
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 3: Soviet falls and a wave of reactionary terror murders a

937
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 3: ton of people, and so you got the fuck out.

938
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: And he goes to Germany, and that's not far enough away.

939
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: He needs to get further the fuck So he starts

940
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 3: working on like a steamboat, and he like steamboats over

941
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: to the US and he like sneaks into the country

942
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: illegally because the Hungarian government still after him so illegally

943
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 3: immigrates to the US, which is cool. I just want

944
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 3: to point that out for anyone who's listening who might

945
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: think that I have negative feelings about this, I'm listing

946
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 3: this as one of the things he did that is.

947
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 2: Cool, that's badass. Yeah.

948
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: Later he goes back and does it the proper way,

949
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 3: and he actually gets used in a lot of like

950
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 3: propaganda for like don't illegally immigrate. If you do, go

951
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 3: turn yourself in and you'll get treated well and you'll

952
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: become a star like Bella Legosi. But he gets to

953
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 3: the US and he helps found the Screen Actors Guild

954
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 3: because unions fucking rule, and in the nineteenth no kidding, yeah,

955
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: and in the nineteen thirties help start another project, the

956
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: Hungarian American Council for Democracy, which wanted quote Nazism to

957
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 3: be wiped out everywhere. It's a very understandable position. In

958
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 3: the nineteen forties, he leveraged all of his fame to

959
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 3: help fight for the US to accept Hungarian Jewish refugees.

960
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 3: And the final cool thing he did from my point

961
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: of view, is that when he was buried, he got

962
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 3: married in his like Dracula cape nice.

963
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: I actually think is there a reference to that in

964
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 2: the movie Ed Wood, I think I there might be,

965
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: and that might be. How I know about that.

966
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 3: I believe you, and I think I even saw that movie.

967
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 3: But I saw that movie before I understood anything about anything.

968
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: Got it. It's one of my favorite biopics. Although I

969
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 2: can I you know, a lot of the people involved

970
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: in that project, such as Johnny Depp and Tim Burton,

971
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 2: you know, suck ass as people. Yeah, but Bela Lugosi

972
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: played by oh my gosh, who plays him?

973
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: Is it?

974
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: Martin Landau is a great character in the movie, and

975
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 2: so shout out to that performance. Hell yeah, now I

976
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: want to rewatch that.

977
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 3: Although as pointed out, sometimes I struggle to enjoy things

978
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 3: when I know just exactly how terrible some of the

979
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 3: people involved there.

980
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are correct on the casting for that movie.

981
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 2: Mark Oh, do I know movies or do I know

982
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: Moviesly do.

983
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 3: So we've established that all the old draculas are on

984
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 3: our side, sorry, old vampires. Some types of people refer

985
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 3: to them as draculas because it's funny. But do you

986
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 3: know who else is on our side? Kaitlin, tell me

987
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 3: it's not the goods and services that support this show.

988
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 3: Instead it's one of the most influential styles of cinema.

989
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 3: German expressionism. We talked about her a little bit earlier.

990
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: German expressionism is on our side. German expressionism in the

991
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 3: late nineteen tens, Germany was like fucked as hell. They

992
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 3: just lost World War One. There's like runaway inflation, totally

993
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 3: unfamiliar to today's listeners, and people were like, well, I guess

994
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 3: as saving money doesn't do any good because it's worth

995
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 3: less every single day, So I'm going to go to

996
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 3: the movies, which is kind of a funny response to that,

997
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 3: but like, fuck it, I don't know. Hedonism looked different

998
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 3: than I guess, you know, And so they everyone went

999
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: out to the movies and they made really fucking weird movies,

1000
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 3: and there were intentionally low budget movies, although I think,

1001
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, they also didn't have any money, right,

1002
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 3: and so they would use intentionally fake looking sets, and

1003
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 3: they would make movies that talk about like losing your

1004
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 3: mind and is basically a response to the realism and

1005
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 3: film that everyone else was doing about these like grand

1006
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 3: traditionally structured adventure films or whatever. As one film critic

1007
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: put it, it was the visual manifestation of the romantic

1008
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 3: ideals with not like romances and people dating, but like

1009
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 3: romantic as like the romantic poets and shit. R This

1010
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 3: is at odds with the Nazi worldview. And this stuff,

1011
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 3: esthetically is what creates both film noir and the first

1012
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 3: Hollywood horror movies ten years later, and it also found

1013
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 3: its way into crime film and a bunch of other things.

1014
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 3: This idea, it happened both because all the filmmakers had

1015
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 3: to flee the Nazis. The reason that it influenced everything

1016
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: is that all the filmmakers had to fucking flee the

1017
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 3: Nazis and move to Hollywood. Of them actually while they

1018
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 3: were there, like donated all their money to the war

1019
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: effort and shit. But film was also influenced by them

1020
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 3: because Hitchcock went to Berlin in nineteen twenty four and

1021
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 3: made a film and he was like, oh, this rules.

1022
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: I'm really into what people are doing here, which is

1023
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 3: to say that anti fascists invented the horror genre. Which

1024
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: again I'd like making these grand, sweeping narrative statements because

1025
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 3: I'm a fiction.

1026
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 2: Writer, but I'm not un for it.

1027
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 3: I don't disbelieve what I'm saying to be clear, of course,

1028
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 3: and the expressionists, they were really fucking clear in their

1029
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 3: anti fascist sentiment. In the nineteen twenties and thirties, Germany

1030
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 3: wasn't a subtle time for subtle political laity allegiances. The

1031
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 3: filmmakers who made the Cabinet of Doctor Caligari said they

1032
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: used they used like shocking contrasting lights, you know, and

1033
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: all of this like really intense visual stuff. And it

1034
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 3: was a reference to their experiences as infantry in World

1035
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 3: War One with nighttime artillery bombing. And they all came

1036
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 3: home from that committed anti militarists and pacifists and anti fascists,

1037
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 3: and they were like, it wasn't just we hate the

1038
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: Nazis because they're taking over our country. They all hated

1039
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 3: Mussolini and shit. So I'm gonna tell you about one

1040
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 3: of those actors, Conrad Vite. Have you heard of Conrad Vite?

1041
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 2: I haven't, okay.

1042
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 3: He was an openly bisexual actor married to a Jewish woman,

1043
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 3: and when the Nazis made everyone in the film industry

1044
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 3: fill out a form to say what race they were,

1045
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 3: he just wrote in I'm a Jew, which he knew

1046
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 3: what the fuck he was doing when he did that

1047
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 3: and he was like, it was like, I'm in solidarity.

1048
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 2: With my wife. If she's a Jew, then I'm a Jew.

1049
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: Fuck you.

1050
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: And they both survived that particular move, which is good.

1051
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 3: They got out to England, whereupon Vite donated his entire

1052
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 3: life savings to the English War Effort because he was like,

1053
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 3: oh my god, please go kill all the Nazis. And

1054
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 3: then he moved to the US, and he moved to

1055
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 3: the US specifically because he was like, I'm going to

1056
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 3: use my star power, etc. To go to Hollywood and

1057
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 3: try to influence the US to join the war because

1058
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 3: if the US doesn't join the war, world fucked. And

1059
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 3: he wounded up playing a villain in Casablanca. It's the

1060
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: role he's most famous for, and he played Nazis.

1061
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 2: He knew.

1062
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 3: He was like, I'm going to go to the US

1063
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 3: and I'm this like German speaking person in late nineteen

1064
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 3: thirties or whatever. I'm going to be playing Nazis when

1065
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 3: I get there. But he wrote into his contract that

1066
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: he would only play Nazis if they were the villains good.

1067
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 3: And then he kept sending all of his money back

1068
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 3: to like he would do things like buy thousands of

1069
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 3: packets of chocolate for British kids who were stuck in

1070
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 3: bomb shelters on Christmas and shit. And he used his

1071
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 3: fortune to smuggle his Jewish in laws out out of Austria.

1072
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 3: And he uses influence. He had a bunch of ex

1073
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 3: wives because I don't know, people used to marry when

1074
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 3: they should have just dated.

1075
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: Just I mean, living a bachelor lifestyle, but not because

1076
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: they were getting married. Yeah. Look, everyone's a slot and

1077
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: I love that for them.

1078
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And he stayed friends with his exes,

1079
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 3: which I feel like is like a good judge of

1080
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,240
Speaker 3: a man when he's dating women is if he stays

1081
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 3: friends with his exes even more than staid friends with

1082
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 3: his exes. He smuggled his fucking exes out of and

1083
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 3: his like kid with one of them out of Germany.

1084
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: M I I was gonna say, I was gonna say

1085
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: it's a green flag unless his only friends are his exes.

1086
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: Then it becomes a red flag.

1087
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 2: You're welcome, fair enough, fair enough. It makes you.

1088
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: Think, as someone who unfortunately dates men, it happens to

1089
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: the best of us.

1090
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, including uh Conrad Wighte who also dated men.

1091
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 2: Orally slept with them.

1092
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 3: I don't think you're married and Conrad.

1093
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1094
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 3: The most famous of these expressionists today is probably Fritz Lang,

1095
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 3: called the Master of Darkness by some like Film Institute

1096
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 3: or something. I think they even wrote it down in

1097
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 3: that way where they said, like, please say it like that.

1098
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: He directed Metropolis. That's what I know him for. He

1099
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 3: did a bunch of other shit, but when I was

1100
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 3: like a little edge lord fucking school kid, I really

1101
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 3: liked Metropolis. And what inspired him was the human instinct

1102
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 3: to revolt against totalitarianism, whether that totalitarianism was Fascist or Bolshevik.

1103
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 3: His first day of work as a director, January fifth,

1104
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: nineteen nineteen, he takes a taxi to work and something

1105
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: else happens that day. There was a big fucking uprising

1106
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 3: in Germany, because Germany in nineteen nineteen was a really

1107
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 3: interesting time. Basically, the Communists tried to overthrow the Social

1108
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 3: Democratic Party and the Spartacist uprising and it didn't work.

1109
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 3: And Fritz Lang didn't take a side in it, but

1110
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 3: he watched it and he was like, he says, his

1111
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 3: quote is it was that day, the first day I

1112
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 3: was to direct that I understood the pawn revolts. I

1113
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 3: did not become a director that day, but I did

1114
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 3: become an artist because of that experience. And Fritz Lang

1115
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: fucking interesting. He was a Catholic atheist with Jewish heritage,

1116
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 3: and like the rest of his generation, he fought in

1117
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 3: World War One. He lost his right eye. He was

1118
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 3: wounded four times during World War One, and he's committed

1119
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 3: anti fascist. He also hates the Bolsheviks, he says everyone

1120
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 3: when he's talking about why he made Metropolis, he was like,

1121
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: I'm afraid of sutalitarianism. His quote is everyone was talking

1122
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 3: about the future, and I was afraid of their vision.

1123
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 3: So I made mine that reflected that fear. And as

1124
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 3: he said of the Bolsheviks in particular, they're just another uniform.

1125
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 3: I hate all uniforms. And this is the first dystopia,

1126
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 3: right as Metropolis. Again, it's funny because when I'm like, oh,

1127
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 3: the first, this the first that I'm kind of like,

1128
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 3: I don't know that we know of, right, you know, sure,

1129
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 3: like there might have been these film scenes and like

1130
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 3: countries that didn't have end up in America, you know,

1131
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, his wife, he had worse choice

1132
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 3: in wife, Thea von Harbow, who wrote Metropolis. She she

1133
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 3: probably saw it as propaganda of a different sort. She

1134
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 3: became a Nazi. Uh so Metropolis was made by a

1135
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 3: couple that was an anti fascist and a fascist.

1136
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: Huh uh, Fritz Langdov. That's why you always talk about

1137
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 2: politics before you marry somebody.

1138
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 3: Right, Like, so what do you think, do you think

1139
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 3: like master race?

1140
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 2: Like yes, no, you know, important conversation to have. Yeah,

1141
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: well yeah, So first, Lange divorced her, which makes a

1142
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 2: lot of sense. It is possibly over politics if you

1143
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 2: read things from his point of view, it's like divorced

1144
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: over politics because she was a fucking Nazi. And if

1145
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 2: you read things that are like intended as neutral or

1146
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: more from her point of view, are like they were

1147
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: both boning other people and he was a hypocrite because

1148
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 2: he couldn't stand it because she put up with him

1149
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 2: boning other people, but he couldn't put up with it

1150
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 2: when she was bonying other people. And I don't know,

1151
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 2: I think it was the Nazi thing based on everything

1152
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: else I was reading, I'd imagine. So they were married,

1153
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm seeing for eleven.

1154
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 3: Years, yeah, yeah, throughout the whole twenties, I think.

1155
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty two to thirty three.

1156
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so she becomes a Nazi, and it's kind

1157
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 3: of weird and nonsensical that she becomes a Nazi based

1158
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 3: on her other politics. She was a pro abortion activist,

1159
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 3: although of course the Nazis legalized some abortion because they

1160
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 3: believed in eugenics, because they were fucking Nazis. But and

1161
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 3: she had to secretly marry her next husband because he

1162
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: wasn't white. He was a dark skinned Indian man. And

1163
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 3: she later claimed that she joined the Nazis to help

1164
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 3: Indian immigrants who are living in Germany.

1165
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 2: But she made a.

1166
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 3: Fuck ton of Nazi propaganda films, and she was she

1167
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 3: was a fucking Nazi. Fritz Lang the Nazis uh cancel

1168
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 3: one of his films as being dangerous, right, But then

1169
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 3: the propaganda guy, Joseph Goebbels calls Lang to his office

1170
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 3: and Fritz is like, oh fuck, I'm fucked, Like fucking

1171
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: Goebbels has just canceled my film. And now I'm like

1172
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 3: walking into this office and there's like men with guns

1173
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 3: everywhere and shit, right, and like so Fris Lang walks

1174
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 3: in and Goebbels is like, hey, uh, we had to

1175
01:01:57,840 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 3: cancel your film. I'm sorry about that. You know, it's

1176
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 3: a verse bad or whatever. But you're really good at filmmaking.

1177
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 3: What if you become the in charge of the Nazi

1178
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 3: film studio. You could be like the person who creates

1179
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 3: nationalist socialist film, Like, don't you want that job? Isn't

1180
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 3: that amazing? And Chris Lang and Goebbels is like, and

1181
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 3: it's totally okay the fact that we know you're Jewish,

1182
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 3: because even though his mom was a practicing Catholic, she'd

1183
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: been like born Jewish or whatever. And so he's surrounded

1184
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 3: by armed Nazis and he does what probably anyone would

1185
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 3: do in exactly this position, which is he's like, oh, totally,

1186
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 3: I would absolutely love that job. And then he gets

1187
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 3: the fuck out of Germany. He just like goes home,

1188
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 3: being like, yeah, see you later. I'm totally your guy,

1189
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 3: gonna be in charge of.

1190
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 2: I'll be there on Monday.

1191
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. He goes home, He packs up all of his stuff,

1192
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 3: including a bunch of all of like the Prince of

1193
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 3: films that he can. He gets the fuck out of Germany.

1194
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 3: He claims that he never went back, but he actually

1195
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 3: went back a couple times, I think to go get

1196
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 3: more shit. A couple times over the next couple of

1197
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 3: months before he is gone for good, and he grabbed

1198
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 3: a copy of Metropolis. It's probably for the best he did,

1199
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: although who knows, maybe the Nazis would have fucking loved Metropolis.

1200
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 3: I'm not sure someone knows. The answer is someone knows

1201
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 3: whether or not the Nazis love Metropolis?

1202
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 2: Is that the one I will want to say i've

1203
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 2: seen it? Is it three hours long? Is that the

1204
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 2: one that's like really long? And this is coming from

1205
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 2: someone who loves R R R, which is also three

1206
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: hours long. But I was like, I can't be watching Metropolis.

1207
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 2: It's too long. Oh no, I'm not even correct about that.

1208
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: It's only an hour fifty four. Yeah, so never mind.

1209
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 3: It's it's been I used to be obsessed with this film,

1210
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 3: but I barely remember it. But I barely remember anything.

1211
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 3: It's it's a dystopian thing about like there's like workers

1212
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 3: and they're all basically machines and they get like marched

1213
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 3: off and put into the underground and there's like a big.

1214
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 2: Okay, I have seen it brag. Yeah. Once again, I

1215
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: just just thought it just seemed maybe just seemed like

1216
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: three hours.

1217
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that is fair. There's also been a million

1218
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 3: different cuts of it. They like keep re releasing it

1219
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: with different cuts.

1220
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe I saw the three Maybe I saw the

1221
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: r r R cut of my trumpet.

1222
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 3: Probably just where they just enter stitch r r R

1223
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 3: into it in order to make people actually pay attention exactly.

1224
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1225
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 3: It's funny because I loved all these German expressions horror films,

1226
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 3: and then like my attention span stopped being capable of

1227
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: watching them for a very long time, and like, I

1228
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 3: feel like I could be in like the right mood

1229
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: to go and watch these things, but it's not what

1230
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 3: I'm like. It's not currently what I use film for.

1231
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 3: I use film to mostly to turn off my fucking

1232
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 3: brain at the end of work, you know. Yeah, And

1233
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 3: I don't think that's wrong as much as I'm like, yeah,

1234
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 3: it's cool that all these people rejected all that, and

1235
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's also cool when you just fucking embrace

1236
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 3: it and do entertainment.

1237
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 2: You just got to put on Shrek too, yeah, yeah,

1238
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 2: and escape into you know, far far away.

1239
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 3: Shadow of the ogre that's done saying yeah. Fris Lang

1240
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 3: in a nineteen seventy two interview, So he talked about

1241
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 3: how he like always puts all his violence off screen,

1242
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 3: because these there's no point putting it on screen. The

1243
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 3: viewer's imagination can do that. He made an exception, was

1244
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 3: very proud of this exception and his film Cloak and Dagger.

1245
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 3: There's a fight. To quote Fritz Lang, I am let

1246
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: me call myself a liberal, which is not very correct,

1247
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 3: but let me call myself that. And I hate fascists.

1248
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 3: And this was the fight of a decent man against

1249
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 3: a fascist. So seemingly my hatred got the better of me.

1250
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 3: So like, the only violence he puts in his like long,

1251
01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, there might be other moments,

1252
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 3: but like, the only fucking violence he uses is someone

1253
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 3: stabbing a Nazi. Nice he gets to the US, he

1254
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 3: makes a film by how fucked up lynching in America is,

1255
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 3: because he's not trying to just be like only the

1256
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 3: Nazis are bad. He teams up with Bract he makes

1257
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 3: an anti fascist film called Hangman Also Die, which is

1258
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 3: a fucking cool name for a film. He stayed consistent,

1259
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 3: and so he's credited with the first dystopia, the blueprint

1260
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 3: for the serial killer movie, the entertainment warflick, and film noir.

1261
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 3: All fucking Fritz Lang anti fascists get shited done.

1262
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 2: That's my theory.

1263
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 3: And it wasn't just the Germans getting shit done against

1264
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 3: fascism and film. When we come back on Wednesday, we'll

1265
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 3: talk about the Hollywood Anti Nazi League, and we'll talk

1266
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 3: about why the Warner Brothers were cooler than you realize,

1267
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 3: and we'll talk about Walt Disney, but not as a

1268
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 3: cool guy.

1269
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 2: No. I was like Walt Disney way was anti Semite.

1270
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, shows, is Robert Evans gonna pop up?

1271
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: What's happening, Caitlin? Do you have anything that you would

1272
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: like to plug?

1273
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 2: Sure? You can follow me on social media on Twitter

1274
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: and Instagram at Kaitlyn Dronte because the more followers I have,

1275
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 2: the more validated I feel as a human being in

1276
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 2: that yes, a sad fact. You can follow and listen

1277
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:54,959
Speaker 2: to my podcast, The Bechdel Cast, which is all about

1278
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 2: movies and examining movies through an intersectional feminist lens. Margaret

1279
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 2: has been a guest on the episode on We Are

1280
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 2: the Best, very fun movie about tween punk kids making

1281
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 2: a band in nineteen eighties Sweden, Right, I think so?

1282
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 2: And then also you can check out the movie r

1283
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 2: R R. It's streaming in a few different places, and

1284
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: depending on the city you live in, it might still

1285
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 2: be in theaters. I saw it last night in Los Angeles, California.

1286
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: Ever heard of it? I hope this age as well.

1287
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: I mean like a school c R r R. Although

1288
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 2: it has been it's been criticized for being like, you know,

1289
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 2: Indian nationalist propaganda at a time where the politics in

1290
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: India are a little scary. So I understand. I know

1291
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 2: about the criticism of the movie, and yet it's the

1292
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 2: coolest movie ever made. So check out. And that's I'm

1293
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 2: gonna stop talking.

1294
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 1: Okay, And Margaret, you have a book that's out that

1295
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: people can order, correct do.

1296
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 3: I'm even on book tour right now. If you look

1297
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 3: at my Instagram at Margaret Killjoy, there'll be some of

1298
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 3: the tour dates posted, and then I'll get around to

1299
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 3: posting the rest of the tour dates when I get

1300
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 3: my shit together. But I have very little free brain

1301
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 3: space because I'm on tour right now for a book

1302
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 3: called We Won't Be Here Tomorrow, which is a collection

1303
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 3: of short fiction available from Akpress anywhere you buy books.

1304
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 3: If you like people killing CEOs with drones, or you

1305
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 3: like mermaids who eat men, Or you like people dressing

1306
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 3: up as Orcs and then fighting Nazis in the woods

1307
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 3: with swords, or if you like arsonists who fall in

1308
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 3: love with ghosts, then you might like this book. You

1309
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 3: might hate it, yes, but you might like Yeah.

1310
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 1: So check out check out at Margaret Kiljoy on Instagram.

1311
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 3: From more Infro on that yeah, and we will see

1312
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 3: you all on Wednesday.

1313
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 1: Bye bye. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a

1314
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

1315
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website foolzonmedia dot com or check

1316
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1317
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:18,440
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.