1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Yep, it's it could happen here a podcast about things 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: falling apart and some other stuff occasionally. I'm Robert Evans. 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Today are guests fresh off their 4 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: new hit movie by Paramount Garrison Davis. Uh and and yeah, 5 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: what what what I'm doing? Like a like a thing, 6 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: Chris Garrison. Garrison's lost the thread? Why don't you pick 7 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: it up? I also have lost the thread? So here's 8 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: a new one. This has been very confusing for two 9 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: of an episode, absolutely baffling. Look, you want things to 10 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: not be confusing, you have somebody else introduce your podcast. 11 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: That's just the way it goes noted. Yeah, so what what? 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to part two of the Atlantis Shooting. Um, we 13 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: are back with actually less Atlanta this time, but more shooting. 14 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: Oh good, Sorry, this is a very absurd. Really we've 15 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: found ourselves, Dear God, just a normal day at work. 16 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: Oh take it away, Chris, you got this, You got this. 17 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: We believe in you. There's there's a tendency, I think 18 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: among Asian American writers where when we get confronted with 19 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: what are you know, considered quote unquote Asian American stories, 20 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: there's almost inevitably and autobiographical pivot that happens like at 21 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,639 Speaker 1: some points in the piece. Um May Jong, the author 22 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: of the Vanity Fair piece I mentioned last episodes, that's 23 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: been a major source for both these episodes. It doesn't 24 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: her piece, so do, I mean like dozens and does 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: and dozens of as American writers who are you know, 26 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: much more accomplished and talented than I am, and like, 27 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: I get it. I I don't blame them for it. 28 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: I think it's a powerful way to anchor a story 29 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: and understand the story. And I also think that it's 30 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: why we miss like half of the story that we 31 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: when we talk about things, because you know, the the 32 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: the audio autobiographical focus has this tendency to narrow the 33 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: scope into looking at just sort of the US. And 34 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: this story and the story of Asian Americans in general, 35 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: isn't just a story about sort of a minority in 36 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: the US or about American imperialism. It's about Asia itself, 37 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: and here especially it's about China and Korea, to lesser 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: cent Japan. And you know, the histories of these places 39 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: have as much to do with why the people who 40 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: died in Atlanta were in those rooms on that day 41 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: as Christian purity culture does. And you know, by by 42 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: bym actually looking at this, we we got to introduce 43 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: another key player in this horror show who only sort 44 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: of appeared change intially in part one, which is capitalism. 45 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: Because capitalism is about to show up and make just 46 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: all of this monumentally worse. Yeah. It's kind of like 47 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: Steven Seagal in that way. Yeah, I think more much 48 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: more active than Steven Seagal, but barely move yea. Capitalism 49 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: unfortunately moves at an incredibly relentless space. Yeah, Capitalism's knees 50 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: are an incredible shape. Yeah. So and and and this, this, 51 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: this brings us back to Atlanta itself. Now. Yo Fong 52 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: died a hero in the final moments of her life. 53 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: As shots rang across Young Zation massage, she motioned for 54 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: Marcus Leone, still half naked on the massage table, to 55 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: stay still and wait for her to walk in front 56 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: of him before he died behind the massage table by 57 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: covering Leon's movement as she opened the door, She sacrificed 58 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: her life to save the life of a man she'd 59 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: met just minutes before. Her award, in typical American fashion, 60 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: was a bullet in the head. It took six days 61 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: for her family in China to realize that she had 62 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: been killed. By village custom, the remains of an unmarried 63 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: woman who left the village could not re enter it 64 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: to be buried. Her body thus lay unclaimed in a 65 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: morgue for nineteen days before she was buried in the 66 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: land of her killer at a funeral's attended entirely by strangers. 67 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: Marcus Leone, the man Fong sacrificed her life to save, 68 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: was forced to return to work at FedEx just three 69 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: days after surviving the massacre. The sound of the packages 70 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: he dropped on his delivery runs sounded like gunshots. He 71 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: quit soon after. There is no justice in this world, 72 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: only an unending parade of horror, the details of which 73 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: are somehow each worse than the last. And it is Yeah, 74 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: this is I think what I wanted to sort of 75 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: what I wanted to talk about this episode, which is 76 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: that like, it's not just that there was a shooting, 77 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: it's that each element of why everyone is there is 78 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: its own successive horror story, and the conditions that produced 79 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: this horror or not, you know, they're not just two 80 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: conditions that produce robaderan long They're not just the conditions 81 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: that produced to shoot her. They're the conditions that produced 82 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: Dai Fung, who spent almost her entire life as a 83 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: miket workers, supporting a family whose most pressing concern was 84 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: attempting to marry her off. And and I think it's 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: worth tracing out these conditions and how they developed. Because 86 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl drops out of middle school 87 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: to work at a factory fifty miles away and that 88 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: eventually is gunned down by an American racist is not 89 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: how the future of Asia was supposed to go. Like, 90 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: you know, I don't have much love and imagine not Yeah, 91 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: it's like I don't have much love for Maw. But 92 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: I don't think if you showed Maw this, he would 93 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, this is the future that 94 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: I wanted for my people. Like this, things have gone 95 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: very badly wrong. And I think to understand how we 96 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: got to this hell, we need to go back to 97 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: another hell, which is the beginning of the Korean War. 98 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: And you know what, we've talked about the effects that 99 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: the Korean War had on Korean women in the last episode. 100 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: But I think there's a few other things that are 101 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: worth emphasizing here, one of which is that the absolute 102 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: devastation that the war wrought on North and South Korea 103 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: is incalculable. I mean, the effects of this is still 104 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: felt to this day. It was a utterly devastating war. Um. 105 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: But it also has sort of more subtle effects on 106 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: the sort of politics and economics of of the region 107 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: because what one of the you know, one of the 108 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: very important things about this war is that the US 109 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: is fighting in East Asia, and this means that the 110 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: US is going to eve an enormous army in South Korea, 111 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: which has its own military and sort of political and 112 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: economic consequences. And you know, those troops are still there 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: to this day, like technically fighting a war which has 114 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: never formally ended. And you know, we'll come back a 115 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: bit to this later. But this has a enormous application 116 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: for the entire region. Um. I've I've talked on bastards 117 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: for about like you know, about so many effects this has. 118 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: But you know, Korea and later Vietnam are a major 119 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: like the wars the US fights there are a major 120 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: factor behind the industrialization of Japan, which sees you know, 121 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: enormous U S investment as part of this attempt to 122 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: like shorten American supply lines by exporting their military industrial 123 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: complex to East Asia. You know, we talked about the 124 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: Japanese ankle with this, but South Korea is likewise industrialized 125 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: American capital for you know, pretty much the same reason. Um, 126 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, and and and this goes on to the 127 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: extent that like Korean troops like fight on the side 128 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: of the US in Vietnam, and you know, in South 129 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: Korea's production base proves a sort of a pivotal military 130 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: asset for the US war machine in the East. Now, 131 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: the thing I think, and I think I think that 132 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: part of it, like is understood decently well because you know, 133 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: if you if you if if you do if you 134 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: like you know literally anything about this region. You've you've 135 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: seen the effects of this stuff. But the part of 136 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: it I think is less understood is that in China, 137 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: this the war has a similar effect, which is that 138 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: communist leadership fights this war right, and it immediately becomes 139 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: clear to them that there is a looping possibility they're 140 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: gonna have to fight the US again. And if they're 141 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: gonna have to fight the US again, they need an 142 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: actual sort of modern industrial base to fight a war 143 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: against the US, and this, you know, this leads to 144 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: sort of militarization industrization, and you you get a look 145 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: at two very different kinds of state led developments, uh, 146 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: which I'm going to call state led development corruption and 147 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: state state led development socialism question mark, which sort of 148 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: which sort of play out in China and Korea. UM. 149 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's it's it's worth actually 150 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: talking about this because both of these systems are essentially 151 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: going to collapse, and when they do, they are going 152 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: to send an enormous number of people, both in China 153 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: and Korea, you know, spreading, spreading across the world seeking 154 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: like any kind of sort of economic salvation. And a 155 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: lot of the people who are killed in Atlanta are 156 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: in Atlanta because of these because of these crises. Yes. So. 157 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: So the first of these is the chapel system in Korea, 158 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: which is sort of informally established by the dictator Park 159 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: Junky is like the core of his plan for economic development, 160 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: and it generates a number of extremely powerful family owned 161 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: megan conglomerates with intimate ties to the state and these 162 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: sort of various political factions, and these conglomerates which control 163 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: just vast sections of the Korean economy. I like, like 164 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: like two this day, Samsung, which is the largest the 165 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: remaining Chabels, Like I think I think they're they're total 166 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: percentage of the GDP of Korea's like sevent cent or something. 167 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: It's like, it's it's absolutely absurd. Jesus, Yeah, like and 168 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: and and and like and the thing is that you know, 169 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: and it's sort of it's amazingly about this is that, 170 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: like the chabels are much weaker than the used to 171 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: be UM for reasons that we will get to in 172 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: a bit. And you know, when when when they're founded, 173 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: when they're sort of at the height of their powers 174 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: they have, you know, they're they're they're established with three goals. Um. 175 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: There's an attempt to develop the economy. I you know, 176 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: there's an attempt to sort of the fuel there'sn'tpt to 177 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: sort of fuel the American and South Korean war machines. 178 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: And the third thing I'm trying to do is to 179 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: make a lot of people in the government and their 180 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: allies indescribably rich. And it works sort of amazingly, which 181 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: is a weird thing to say about development regime started 182 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: by military edtatorship but they have. They have an enormous 183 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: amount of mill of American capital military aid, and like 184 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: they do successfully develop, they kill and enormous sumber of 185 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: people in the process, but you know they do it. 186 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: On on the other side, you have Chinese state light 187 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: developments and this is also about economic development and fueling 188 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: the military. But you know, the goal here is to 189 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: create an economic base for socialism and this does not work. Um. 190 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: There there there's number of complicated reasons for this. The 191 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: simplest one is that China just doesn't get the kind 192 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: of investment technology transfer South Korea gets until like way later. Um. 193 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: But the other really important element of this for this 194 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: story is about the urban world divide. And this is 195 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: another thing I've talked about Bastards like on I've talked 196 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: about on Bastards a bit, but I think it's worth 197 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: going into the details a little bit because otherwise a 198 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that's going to happen that is, 199 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: you know, the the part of the story that is 200 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: directly sending twelve year olds off to a factory and 201 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: Shenzen like don't make any sense without it. So to 202 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: make a very complicated and shifting set of economic programs 203 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: like as simple as possible. Um, Chinese industrial policy dread 204 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: what's sort of called the socialist period is about extracting 205 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: grain from the countryside and fuelly and funneling get into 206 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: urban industrial developments and you know, to get it, to 207 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: get it, like understanding of what we're talking about here. 208 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: So the CCP is essentially deliberately under developing the countryside 209 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: in favor of developing cities. And this is this is 210 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: exposed to state policy. UM. From from nineteen of the 211 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: Chinese population is doing agricultural labor, but agriculture receives less 212 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: than ten percent of state investments over the same period. 213 00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: So they are like really really really incredibly not funneling 214 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: any resources back into into rural areas. Yeah, I mean, 215 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: is there a degree to that? Is their degree of 216 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: that that is maybe related to like I know in 217 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: the USS are a lot of the early left wing 218 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: resistance to the Soviet regime came from rural areas. Um, 219 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: is there anything to do with that, Like, is it 220 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: kind of a desire to avoid developing these places that 221 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: are less controllable? No? And this is this is the 222 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: sort of interesting about China, is that. I mean, Okay, 223 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: so the CCP originally has an urban base, but they 224 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: managed to get their retire urban base killed. So this 225 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: is this is this is the cause of like like this, 226 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: this is this is one of the reasons for the 227 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: sound of Soviet split. Like this is basically like selling 228 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: in Trotsky or bickering, and their bickering gets like a 229 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: million Chinese communist killed, and that means that you know, 230 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: this this this is this is where the sort of 231 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: rise of Mao comes in because Mao is as a 232 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: peasant organizer, and once the entire World Party is dead, 233 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: it's like, well, okay, so now we have a peasant 234 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: base and they have they actually have a really they 235 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: have they have like a basically unprecedented level of of 236 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: sort of buy in from the countryside. But the problem 237 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: is that the party just isn't interested in world development 238 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: because the thing that they want is they want to 239 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: be able to develop military power and they want to 240 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: be able to develop like heavy industry, and those aren't 241 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: things that they think you can do in the countryside. 242 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: And so their strategy is just to just i mean 243 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: just literally it's just pure grain extraction from the countryside 244 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: and then using that to feel industrial development, which they're 245 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: doing for I mean, largely ideological reasons, but it also 246 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: does have to do with the fact that China, like 247 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: like people people talk a lot about how like, you know, 248 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: the communist revolution in Russia happens and like the least 249 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: developed country in Europe, and it's like, yeah, but like 250 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: Russia had like several times more industrial capacity in Russian 251 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: Revolution than China does after the war. So this is 252 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: a country that is like a complete economic backwater. And 253 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: so you know this, this is this is part of 254 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: what they're doing. I thought, it doesn't it doesn't work. 255 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: And you know, I actually mentioned that there's one other 256 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: thing that they're doing here, which is that so they're 257 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: based in the peasantry is fairly solid. But the other 258 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: thing they have to use this grain budget for is 259 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: to buy off this like incredibly bilitant working class that 260 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: they've inherited, because these people are on strike like constantly, 261 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: and this is this is this is a really serious 262 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: problem for the CCP. And so they you know, they 263 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: have all these wealthare programs, they have all of this 264 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: sort of these resources that they're they're paying they're putting 265 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: into sort of buying off this class. And the result 266 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: of this is you have just incredible rural poverty because 267 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: like one of one of the things that happens here 268 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: is I guess, I guess you call the benefits, but 269 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: things like there's like housing, education, like medical care. This 270 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: stuff is all distributed like through your work and through 271 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: your household registration. And so you know, if if if 272 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: you're someone who has a job in the countryside, you're 273 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: the resources that you're getting are are also from the countryside, 274 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: and that means that you have just these like awful 275 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: underfooted services, your benefits are terrible, and even if you 276 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: can somehow get a job in the city, which is 277 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: really hard because China also has these like really intense 278 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: internal like immigration restrictions, so like if you're like in 279 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: another province that you're not supposed to be, like you 280 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: you will get deported back to your home province. There's 281 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: all these are these really tight controls, and this means 282 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: that like if you're in a rural area, like your 283 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: livelihood is tied to your family unit in a way 284 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: that's like not happening anywhere near as intensely in the cities. 285 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: And when I say your livelihood is tied to your 286 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: family unit, what I mean is that like other than 287 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: this like brief like token attempt they make to socialize 288 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: like housework, reproductive labor in the greatly forward men in 289 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: the state are just like higherly dependent on uncompensated housework 290 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: and production by women, which yeah, it's not just a 291 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: China thing. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's like okay, it's like, 292 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: oh hey, this sounds like your modern system and like, yes, 293 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: this is true. Um. But on the other hand, the 294 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: socialists like ideologically are claiming to be better from this. 295 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: So I'm holding them through their own standards and giving 296 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: them just liked on this because this is like yeah, 297 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean, like I think this is really one of 298 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: like you know, okay, so they failed to end capitalism, 299 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: but I think if if you look at like what 300 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: is the other great failure of the Chinese Revolution, it's 301 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: that they never dealt with the patriarchy. And this means 302 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: like you know what, when when Mao is saying stuff 303 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: about like women hold up half the sky, like what 304 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: what he actually means is that like women's labor is 305 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: holding up like seventy percent of the budget and they're 306 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: getting like twenty percent of the pay. And this this 307 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: is extremely important for reasons that we will get to 308 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: in a second, because it turns out if your entire 309 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: economy is based on patriarchy, really bad things start happening 310 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: in terms of your gender politics, which is a thing 311 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: that has never has literally never happened in any other regime. 312 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: But we should not at all take any lessons from 313 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: this about how her own economy works. It's great, It's 314 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: completely fine. The other thing that we need to talk 315 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: about is the CCPs just utter full scale war against 316 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: urban workers. And this is not the kind of like 317 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: abstract class war that you hear Left is talking about 318 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: all the time. That's you know about like wages, unionization 319 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: and so forth. Like this is an actual war that 320 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: is resolved by the by just the p l A, 321 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: the Chinese army just butchering the Chinese working class. And 322 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: this comes to a head and the Cultural Revolution, and 323 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, I have I have a whole rant about 324 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: the Culture Revolution that I will do time that's not now. 325 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: But the short version of it is that one of 326 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: the things that happens in the Culture Revolution is that 327 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: the CCP crushes these sort of rebel worker factions and 328 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: they kill a million people like from from from from Yeah, 329 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's really it's really slick. Comparing 330 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: it like to the scale of like the great anti 331 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: communist purges, like this is I think, I think it's 332 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: actually more. I think it's a million people. I think 333 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: it's more people than than Sue Hardo killed. It's like 334 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: there you go, see there's some left right unity. Yeah, 335 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: it's well, I mean Mount maw undisputed greatest anti communists 336 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: has the highest number of Communism kills. Well, I don't know. 337 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Let's let's I mean, Joseph Stalin's in that running. That's true. 338 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: You've got to You've got to. You've got a couple 339 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: of Titans battling it out here. Yeah, it's it's it's 340 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: a definitely, it's it's it's a difficult choice. But yeah, 341 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: I mean like they are like like this is is 342 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: literally fighting a war against against certain workers. And like 343 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: this is even by like the mid seventies, there are 344 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: there are moments where the army is sending like tens 345 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: of thousands of work since a thousands of troops like 346 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: in the cities to break up strike waves. And this 347 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: is this is an enormous problem for the CCP. You know, Okay, 348 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: like it's anorways problem for them politically because it turns 349 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: out that being a communist party and then the thing 350 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: that you're doing all of the time is sending soldiers 351 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: to shoot workers is really bad for your political system ideologically. Well, okay, 352 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: that's your opinion. Yeah it does. It doesn't go great 353 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: for them. And and the the other problem they have is, uh, 354 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: you know this, this creates this like this incredible miilituization 355 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: of society and this legion s tegnation and there's all 356 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: this corruption that's happening. But the other problem is like, okay, 357 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: so if you're like a cadre like planner, right, and 358 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: there's always people on strike, you needed to not be 359 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: on strike because you need them to produce stuff for 360 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: your like central planning productions, ed rules, and so all 361 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: all of these like cadre planners start being like, okay, 362 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: these workers keep going on strike, like where where can 363 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: we get labor that won't do this? And they start 364 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: looking at the countryside and they start going like beard stroke, 365 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: can we send this over here? And meanwhile, like the 366 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: actual world, like real lights are fed up with just 367 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: being treated like shit and they start decollectivizing their farms 368 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: because Okay, there's a lot of reasons why they're doing this, 369 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: but they essentially start forming these things that become called 370 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: town and village enterprises, which are these like the civil's 371 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: explanation of it is that they basically start for forming 372 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: capitalist companies and trying to make money. But the ownership 373 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: structures are a bit different because they're like, you know, 374 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: it'll be like a village, right, and like the village 375 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: like technically collectively owns this like company that makes tires 376 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: or something, right, and this is where you start getting 377 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: markets coming back in China. And the CCP looks at this, 378 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: it goes like, yeah, sure this is fine. Uh the 379 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: this this won't stop our communism thing because we're having 380 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: budget shortfalls right now and if we let someone else 381 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: do this work, we don't have to pay for it. 382 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: And these so these town of village enterprises are called 383 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: tv s. Like mostly what they're doing is they're like 384 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: selling parts and stuff to like these giants. State owned enterprises, 385 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: which are you know, your state own enterprises are things 386 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: that are building like bikes, like tractors or refrigerators, so 387 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: they're like you know, they're selling them like wheels or 388 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: like refrigerator parts. And this is this is the thing 389 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: that becomes the core of the Chinese economy, particularly in 390 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: Dario Fung's home province of Guandong, because Gando is really unique, 391 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: well okay, really unique province, I guess is the thing 392 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: you can say about literally every province, but Gwendong is 393 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: particularly unique in this period because it's right next to 394 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: Hong Kong. And this means that, I mean there's always 395 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: been sort of like capital kind of through really shady 396 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: black markets and like people passing each other like notes 397 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: under dinner tables and extra like all all of the 398 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: weird like diplomacy stuff that like like Kissinger and Nixon 399 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: get up to is happening through these like weird back 400 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: channels that a lot of which are running through Hong Kong. 401 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: That there's a lot of stuff that's been sort of 402 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: running through there. And when this stuff starts to happen, 403 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: um you uh, Gwendong gets these special economic zones and 404 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: this becomes sort of the prototype for China's like eventual 405 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: sort of capitalist centric like export development model. Um Gwendong 406 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: is like they're they're literally there, They're they're they're they're 407 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: taking like form capital from Hong Kong, and they're using 408 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: it to produce good for the market. And this is 409 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: the world that Dano Fong and Shout Jitan grow up in. Um. 410 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: It's a world where on the one hand, there's enormous 411 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: economic growth, but on the other hand, like all of 412 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: the safety nets that Chinese socialism have put in place 413 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: are just like being completely destroyed, and everyone is once 414 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: again dependent on wages to survive. And it's also an 415 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: incredibly deeply patriarchal world, you know, and we've seen this 416 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: already right with Dion Fung's village, just like refusing to 417 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,719 Speaker 1: bury her body because she's not married. And you know, 418 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: this is this is something that's only gotten worse as 419 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: the sort of as the eighties where're on you get 420 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: into their form period. You have simultaneous you have the 421 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: one child policy, which is this incredibly draconian state and 422 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: forced destruction of bodily autonomy, and it also serves this 423 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: really horrific role in devalue in girls because girls act 424 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: as having less economic value than boys. And so you 425 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: get all these things where like you get these you 426 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: get targeted like gender targeted abortions. They're these masterializations that happen, 427 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's this just enormous patriarchal engine and it sucks. 428 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: And there's also there's a return to fusitionism as well, 429 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: because like, and this is one of the things is 430 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: like the most infuriating about this because like like of 431 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: like what the original Chinese Revolution was about was like, hey, 432 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: Confucianism sucks. Like this, this incredible like reactionary patriarchal ideology 433 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: is in fact bad. And then like forty years in 434 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: there like hold on, wait, what if we bring this 435 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: ship back? And it is it is it is extremely bad, 436 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: and you know, and it serves as a sort of 437 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: like like this pacifying picture archical ideology that they're using 438 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: to sort of hold the family unit together because the 439 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: family unit are like so there's a lot of the 440 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: firms in this period they're just like owned by families, right, 441 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: and you know, you you there's there's a lot of 442 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: sort of similarities here between if you look at your like, 443 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, you're you're sort of like right wing like 444 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: culturally Christian like small business owner families, and you look 445 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: at this and it's like, uh, we've we've we've read 446 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: developed the wheel here we we have once again created 447 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: the patriarchal death engine. Ga who it's it's great, it's yeah. 448 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: And this this is basically this is the world that 449 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: Daniel fog Like grows up in. And this is the 450 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: period where the old urban working class is just hammered 451 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: to pieces so that the state and capital could just 452 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: gorge itself as well for benefits, and the new Chinese 453 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: working class is born, and this migrant working class, it's vanguard. 454 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: Are these women who are given to imperatives by their families, 455 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: and these these these imperatives are given I mean literally 456 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: Dayong fang like, Dayo fang Like directly and I think 457 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: indirectly to um shout git on well because like with 458 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: Dayong Like, we literally have the quotes of this right 459 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: like she she has told by her family get married 460 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: and find a job and shout shitan gets married off 461 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: at twenty but a middle school fong like drops out 462 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: of school and just goes to work in a factory 463 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: in Shenzen, and this like, these are the women who 464 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: built modern China like these are these are literally these 465 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: are the people who turned shens In from a tiny 466 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: rural town into a world class manufacturing cub that is 467 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: literally larger than any city in North America. And I 468 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: mean this happens in the span of like a couple 469 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: of decades, and they get jack shipped for it, like 470 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: the wages they are working for, Like Daland Fong's brother 471 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: is working on rubber rubber plantation. He's making five dollars 472 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: a month. And you know, in Dion Fong's case, like 473 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: the other thing she's dealing with is literally these constant 474 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: demands for a family to get married, and Fong just refuses. 475 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: They try to do it as a young adult. She 476 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: just goes no. And they try to to try to 477 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: get like when she's like three, like they bring her 478 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: back to a village and her like pick a husband. 479 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: She just goes no. And she just like they they 480 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: keep showing your guys gypsy coming like no. And you 481 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: know what she does instead is charter her own path 482 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: by managing to secure a visa to the US where 483 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: and this this, this is so Diaoe Phongs like is 484 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: a market worker for ages. And eventually I think, like 485 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: she wasn't sixteen, she loose to the US to support 486 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: her family. Again from Afar, there's there's only there's one 487 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: more piece of macroeconomics I mean to talk about before 488 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: we can follow Dione Pong to the massage parlor, and 489 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: this one is going to get, like everyone else, to 490 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: the scene of this massacre. So what when we last 491 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: left our Korean corruption chapels, business business is booming, and 492 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: in the early nineties, business is like even more booming. 493 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: It is this is this is the best I've ever 494 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: done economically. And the reason is the best I've ever 495 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: done economically is because is by in large part because 496 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: of the thing that I am just perpetually cursed by 497 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: when I do research for this show, which is the 498 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: plaza of courts um. I've talked about this before, but 499 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: I will once again do a brief summary of this, 500 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: which is that so in the nineties, as people probably 501 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: are aware of the U s the US manufacturing economy 502 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: is dying. And this is a real problem for Reagan 503 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: because everyone's like Reagan, why does the economy suck? And 504 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: his solution to this is just basically at gunpoint, forcing 505 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: Japan and West Germany to like let the US d 506 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: value its currency relative to the end of the Deutsche mark. 507 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: And it's like, Okay, this is a this is a 508 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,479 Speaker 1: boring technocratic thing. But the thing it actually does is 509 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: if if your currency is weaker than another currency, it's 510 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,719 Speaker 1: easier for you to like sell them to have an 511 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: export economy and sell them stuff. And this sets off 512 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: just like an incredibly catastrophic chain of events where the 513 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: US manufacturing actually comes back because you know, hey, hey, 514 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: look the dollars the dollars week and now we can 515 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: produce it again. But it just, you know it, it 516 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: combines with this like structural weakness Japan's economy, Japan's economies diplodes, 517 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: and Japan goes okay, funk it. How do we keep 518 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: the economy going without manufacturing sector? And their solution is 519 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: invest in other countries and do real estate speculation. And 520 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, okay, so obviously nothing bad ever happens happens 521 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: when you do real estate speculation. And the Japanese economy 522 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: was completely fine until it collapsed like five years later. Um. 523 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: But this this is a series of effects. One of 524 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: them is that the Korean shables, you know, those those 525 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: companies that are doing like literally the best business I've 526 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: ever done. The reason they're doing this is because of 527 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: Japanese credit and the fact that like there's more complicated 528 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: currency bullshit going. But basically, like the value the value 529 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: of the Korean currency was pegged to the dollar, and 530 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: so when the dollar's value decreased, uh, the wand also decreased. 531 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: And so you know this, this this gives Korea like 532 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: a big manufacturing competitive manufacturing edge. But then you know, 533 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: Japan goes under and they start to lose credit, and 534 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: then the US and does the reverse Plaza Chords where 535 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: they just reverse the thing that they did before, and 536 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: so now the dollar is incredibly strong again. Every other 537 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: currency is really weak well due to it. And this 538 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: just like this just obliterates like every economy in East Asia, 539 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: like they all just implode. Thailand goes under, and most 540 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: of these countries that have never recovered, like Thailand particular, 541 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: like the I mean South Korea kind of does, but 542 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: it's basically the only one. All the rest of the 543 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: economies are just obliterated. And you know this, this is 544 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: this is the Asian economic crisis, and you know, saddled 545 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: with like enormous debts and declining profits, like these tables 546 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: started collapsing left and right, and South Korea just is 547 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: just on the edge of bankruptcy and right on Q 548 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: the I m F shows up and makes everything worse 549 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: because yeah, it's great, it's the I m F. They yeah, 550 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: they do, they do normal I m F stuff, and they, 551 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, they impose a bunch of austerity measures. And 552 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: this just this annihilates the Korean middle class. Like it's 553 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: just it just gets obliterated. This is this, this is 554 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: just a death knell, and it it also has you know, 555 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: it has a lot of effects. But one of the 556 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: other ones is the Korean labor movements is really severely 557 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: damaged by just all the economic devastates that's happening around them. 558 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: And the product of this is just a sort of 559 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: rural poverty drives Dayong Fong and Ugon from their villages. 560 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: The economic collapse drives Kian Jung Kim Grant, who's one 561 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: of the other people who died in this shooting from 562 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: Korea to the US. And this is something that this 563 00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: is there's there's something about the US here. Well, okay, 564 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: something about the US is that it's economy is incredibly strong, 565 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: and the dollar is incredibly strong, and even people who 566 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: come to the US for other reasons that the two 567 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: of the women who end up here like are here 568 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: basically because they buried someone. And but even that, you know, 569 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: they like there's a couple of people like they marry 570 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: someone and they break up and divorces them, but they 571 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: stay in the U s and they stay in the 572 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: US because like the median American income is like three 573 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: times the median American income in China and that's like now, 574 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: and so you know, and the combination of that and 575 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 1: the strength of the American the American dollars sort of 576 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: it brings. It brings the brave, the desperate, and just 577 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: the love struck to our shorees. Um. Now, if you 578 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: remember LCS Hernande's Ortiz, Who's who's the man that long 579 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: like shot while he was on his knees begging for 580 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: his life. Um, Hernando's Ortiz boy is in that mall 581 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: because she was wiring money home to his family in Guatemala. 582 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: And you know, we could do another entire story here 583 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: about Guatemala and the United Fruit Company and these the 584 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: US baccus and genocides. But I think the thing about 585 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:21,959 Speaker 1: this story is that every atrocity is tied to every 586 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: other atrocity, you know, and it creates this web of 587 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: death that we sort of you know, we we euphemistically 588 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: call it capitalism or society or reality. And the survivors 589 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: of this are just flung from meat grinder to meet grinder, 590 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 1: desperately looking for a new life a new country, and 591 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: you know they get there in the country just buries 592 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: them instead. Yongfang was also you know, constantly sending money 593 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: home to her family when she arrives in the US. 594 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: She and she's supporting like ten members of her family 595 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: off of a salary. That is like I mean, like 596 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: she supporting to members her family off of the salary 597 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: that you get from massage work rich. Yeah, I think 598 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: that this is like like again, I think something that 599 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: people don't understand about the US is that like, yeah, 600 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 1: American wages are low, but the dollar is so strong 601 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: that even like like like small amounts of money that 602 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: you can send, like small amounts of money in dollars 603 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: you can send back home have this enormous economic impact. 604 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: And there is there is an enormous like an absolutely 605 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: enormous sort of network of of immigrants in the US 606 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: who are here basically to work in the center business 607 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: is back home, and this is I mean, this is 608 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: like this is an enormous part of just how the 609 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: economy the Philippines works because of yeah, a bunch of 610 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: the just incredibly fucked up stuff that the marcos Is did. Um. Yeah, 611 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: And you know, for for Asian women in particular, once 612 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: they get here, they're often drawn to spot work because 613 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: and there's there's a lot of reasons we'll get into 614 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: in a second, but these spas, the spas are in 615 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: some sense like a microcost of the US, Like the 616 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: pay is good, and the people doing the work often 617 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: like prefer it to other jobs that are accessible to immigrants. Well, okay, 618 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: they're accessible to immgrants with their levels of political and 619 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: economic capital and social connections, which is usually really not 620 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: that large. But the problem is, you know, as as 621 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: with everything in the US, it's also often dangerous, like 622 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: the particular kind of sort of exposure and performance of 623 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: femininity that you need to do. This leaves these workers 624 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: incredibly vulnerable to stockers, and you know, they face sort 625 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: of constant like racial massages abuse. Um Butterfly, which is 626 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: a Toronto based sex worker group, released a report that 627 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: said that half of all massage parlor workers reported some 628 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of threat to their safety at work. Jesus, Yeah, 629 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: it's it's workplace is both incredibly dangerous. And then you know, 630 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: and when when when when we're saying like threat to 631 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: their workplace, that doesn't that's not even like, that's not 632 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: even counting the police. And if you've read anything about this, 633 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 1: you'll read people saying things like massage parlors faced constant 634 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: police raids, and this is true, but if anything, it 635 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: understands how bad it actually is because like Asian massage 636 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: parlors are subjected to two different kinds of police rates. 637 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,839 Speaker 1: That just happened constantly. Um, I'm gonna read a thing 638 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: from BuzzFeed. Yeah, it's it's great, it's it's really fun 639 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: from three thousand six of people arrested for unauthorized practice 640 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: of a profession for any job requiring a license in 641 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: New York. We're Asian and nine scent where women. According 642 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: to data from the New York Division of Criminal Justice 643 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: Services and our prostitution is a misdemeanor defense Unauthorized practice 644 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: of a profession, which is the charge that covers unlicensed massage, 645 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 1: along with roles like veterinary medicine engineering, is a felony 646 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: that carries higher penalty, including up to four years of 647 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: jail time. Now I'm no expert, but that's sure does 648 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: sound like racism of that misogyny, because like, yeah, there's 649 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: an argument to me like if you're if you're moonlighting 650 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: as a bridge engineer and are not qualified, Yes, maybe 651 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: that's they're really just calling me out on on the 652 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: pod just right right in the garrison. We've agreed not 653 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: to talk about all of those people who died when 654 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: that bridge collapse that you built in Florida, on that 655 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: university campus. The thing of value was lost. No, it 656 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: was Florida. Like that's why, that's why the d A 657 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: is not coming after you. Yeah, u s government not 658 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: pressing charges. It's Florida. Mm hmm. So okay, back to 659 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: back to back to the racism. It's like, okay, so, 660 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: so you you have these raids that are like literally 661 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: only like targeted against Asian massage workers and then on 662 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: top and so that that's type one. And the second 663 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: type of raid is that the other thing that happens 664 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: at these places constantly are are these anti prostitution and 665 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: anti trafficking raids. And I'm putting both of those in 666 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: ormal quotations. You know, this is okay, I'm gonna gonna 667 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: go on a side tangent rant here, which is that like, Okay, 668 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: so like every single person who does reporting on this, 669 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is like a journalistic 670 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: standards thing, but like even the good reporting on this, 671 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: they like almost always have like a section that says, I, oh, 672 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: the the Georgia like Georgia's like resources on sex trafficking 673 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,399 Speaker 1: says that, uh salon Asian salons are a place where 674 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of sex trafficking. And it's like m hm, 675 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: really like this this this is what you're putting in 676 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: your article about a bunch of people getting murdered by 677 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: a racist dude, Like this is the thing that that 678 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna put in here, and you know and like 679 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: this this is sort of like all of that stuff 680 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: that I talked about, like last episode about Robert Aaron Long, 681 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: like all of your gratification and the racism and the 682 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: horror phobia and that like mixture of like desire and 683 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: low thing like the cops have this. Like also the 684 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: journalists who are writing about this have this stuff, and 685 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: the the people who don't are sort of like picking 686 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: up on on the sort of like abbeyant racism. So 687 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: you get all this coverage that's just focused on like 688 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: trying to figure out if there was sex work going 689 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: on here. And you know, and like I talked about 690 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: last episode, like this is really dangerous because exposing people, 691 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: exposing these sites the police investigation means you get more 692 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: of these stings. And you know, like we we we 693 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: mentioned at the beginning that uh Da Young Fung like 694 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: no no one she knew showed up to her funeral. 695 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: And the reason that no one she knew showed up 696 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: to her funeral is that no one wanted to be 697 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: at a place where they could potentially be cops so 698 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be deported. Right, How could anyone who knew 699 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: her come to her funeral because that would be well 700 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: and her her brother wanted to come, but the like 701 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: travel to the US was expensive enough. He was just like, yeah, 702 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 1: we can't do this. And you know, and like and 703 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:13,879 Speaker 1: I that these these anti trafficking, anti prostitution raids are 704 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: so common that two of the Atlanta victims have been 705 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: arrested as part of raids like before this, and even 706 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,879 Speaker 1: though both of them are innocent. Uh Sum Chung Park 707 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 1: was convicted of criminal trust passing anyways, again, which is 708 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: like one of the most insane things I've ever heard 709 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: in my life, because she was arrested at the place 710 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: where she worked and they convicted her of criminal trust passing. 711 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: Because this entire system is made up of just like 712 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: Robert are and long levels of racism, but they have 713 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: they have a legal outlet to do it so they 714 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: don't have to just go murder people and and sometimes 715 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,879 Speaker 1: they still do. Yeah, definitely, yeah. I mean we talked 716 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: about very generous with that sometimes, Garrison. Yeah, I mean 717 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: there there there, there's a really horrific story of that. 718 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: There was there was a Chinese sex worker who the 719 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: NYPD like repeatedly attempted to force her at gunpoint to 720 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: have sex with them, and she refused and they so 721 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: and you know, because because she refused, the NYPD kept 722 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: doing raids on her, and eventually she died because she 723 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: jumped out a window trying to escape one of the raids. God, 724 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: because these people are just literal monsters. Um. Yeah, and 725 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, Sung Chun Park like, she's convicted of criminal 726 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: trustpassing and she gets, you know, the sort of particular 727 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: American humiliation of being forced to wear an ankle monitor 728 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: that you have to pay for around your house while 729 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: being under house arrest. And I've I've talked about this 730 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: with the journalists, but again, like there, this is an 731 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: entire system full of robber eron lungs. It's the judges, 732 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: is the prosecutors, it's the social workers, is the journalists, 733 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: it's the cops. And this is this is an incredible 734 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: level of systemic state violence that makes these already tenuous 735 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: migrant working communities even more vulnerable because you know, if 736 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: someone's harassing them, they can't call the cops because if 737 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: the cops show up, it's like, oh hey, this is 738 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,320 Speaker 1: this is even worse than the harassments. And that's I 739 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: think where I want to want to end here today 740 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: on with things that can actually be concretely done about this. 741 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: Help spot workers and sex workers. Um, there's two proposals 742 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: that spot and sex workers have been backing, one of 743 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: which is just ending the licensing licensing requirement from massages 744 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,879 Speaker 1: because it's it's literally only ever used to target Asian 745 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,359 Speaker 1: massage workers. Yeah, that seems that seems like a good call. Yeah, 746 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: it's definitely not the law, but oh yeah yeah, getting 747 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: it's getting rid of it. Clarify there. Yeah, yeah, I 748 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: mean it's you know, like this this is my this 749 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: is my my, my most libertarian position is just being 750 00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: against like a lot of these licensing things, because what's 751 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: next a license to make your own toaster. If it's 752 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: a thing that people just do all the time, uh, 753 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: and in fact cannot be stopped from doing under any circumstances, 754 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: then it shouldn't require a license to do like flying 755 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: exact garrison, like flying a plane, like performing surgery, you know, um, 756 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,720 Speaker 1: like being a police officer. Just make everybody everything all licenses. Sorry, 757 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: I've lost the thread. It's okay, I mean, well I 758 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: think that the actual thread here though, is that like, 759 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,879 Speaker 1: you know, okay, so like, yeah, on the one hand, 760 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: in theory, it is good to have licenses that, you know, 761 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 1: like have a way to tell who knows how to 762 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: do something and who doesn't, Right, But the thing is 763 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: that's that's not what the does. Yeah, yeah, it's and 764 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: like and the thing that the state actually does even 765 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: with licenses, like and they do this driver's licenses, Like 766 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,839 Speaker 1: even even with driver's licenses, which is the thing that like, yeah, 767 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: like people should know how to drive before you put 768 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: them behind like the four wheel death machine, Like what 769 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 1: do they do with it. It's like, oh, they used 770 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: to go after a documented immigrants because the state is 771 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: just incredibly racist and that this is the thing that's 772 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: happening with with these licenses is yeah, they just they 773 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: just do racism with it. Well, it's it's why you 774 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 1: can't have like the common sense I would be like, okay, 775 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: well we're gonna have sex workers, so there should be 776 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: some sort of system to make sure that people are 777 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,320 Speaker 1: getting tested for things and that basically you know certain 778 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,800 Speaker 1: safety procedures or that at least people know what safety 779 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: procedures are being you know, used at the place or whatever. Um. 780 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: But what it always boils down to is, uh, this 781 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: is an excuse for police to funk with vulnerable people. Yeah. 782 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: The thing that this brings us to is the second proposal, 783 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 1: which is just decriminalizing sex work, Like, don't prosecute people 784 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: for this, don't send the cops after them, just don't 785 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: do it. Like it it only ever causes violence against 786 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: people who are already the most marginalized people. It doesn't 787 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: actually help against trafficking either, makes it makespend against trafficking 788 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: actually harder. People feel not able to talk about things 789 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: when they see stuff that's questionable. It's it's I'm sure 790 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: we can do more content content. Um, I'm sure we 791 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: could do more stuff about sex work in the future. Um, 792 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,719 Speaker 1: but yeah, it really should be uh not a crime. Yeah, 793 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,880 Speaker 1: And I think this is something like you know, it's it. 794 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: It reminds me a lot of like of of the 795 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,439 Speaker 1: anti trends stuff where it's like, Okay, so you should 796 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: care about the stuff because you should care about trends people. 797 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: You should also care about the stuff because it affects 798 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: people who are not trans and this this is this 799 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: is this thing where these massage workers are like most 800 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: of them are not sex workers and it doesn't matter 801 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: at all, and it's the splash over effects are hitting 802 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:59,680 Speaker 1: them too. And yeah, the consequence of that is eight 803 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: people are dead. Yep. Yeah, go hope your local sex 804 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: work or organizations and go hope you help your local 805 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: spot workers associations like get rid of this licensing stuff 806 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: and fight for decriminalization because this, this, this kind of 807 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,200 Speaker 1: ship doesn't have to happen and we can. This is 808 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: something that we actually can concretely do and when that 809 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: will make an enormous number of people whose lives are 810 00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: incredibly precarious enormously better. Yep. Okay, so we have already 811 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: seen before our eyes that you can do. You can 812 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: do things that involves safety where the police are just useless. 813 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: We we have seen we we we have seen. We 814 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: have seen Zach. But what is his name? Zack? Yeah, 815 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: Zack is his name. Yeah. Yeah, but look we we 816 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: we we we have we have yeah, he rules. We 817 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 1: have seen bodega Zach out with like outdoe the entire 818 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: police force, even after literally the guy called them the 819 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: churn himself in and Bodegas acts still got there before 820 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: they did. The entire New York Police Department n't himself 821 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: in and left his wallet and gun at the scene. Yeah, 822 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,080 Speaker 1: then again, this is this is this is this is 823 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 1: this is a ten billion dollar police force. The thing 824 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,280 Speaker 1: that the thing that they mostly do is harass homeless 825 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 1: people and sex workers. For the love of God, we 826 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: don't need them. We could, like literally one man could 827 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: do their job for them. H yeah, get get rid 828 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:35,560 Speaker 1: of them. Okay, yeah that sounds nice. Okay, Well there 829 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: we go. We did it. Happy episode, everybody. It could 830 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,320 Speaker 1: happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. For 831 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 832 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,239 Speaker 1: zone media dot com, or check us out on the 833 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,959 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 834 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 1: to podcasts, you can find sources for It could happen here, 835 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: Updated monthly at cool zone mea dot com slash sources. 836 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.