WEBVTT - Reconsider the Bean, Part 1 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.200 My welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:14.000 of My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.600 Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.760 Joe McCormick. And today we're gonna be kicking off the 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.200 first of a two part series where we're going to 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.079 be looking at one of my favorite things in nature, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.800 the bean. Uh you might say the humble being a 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.720 child chanting in the playground might say the magical fruit, 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.480 or wait, was it the magical fruit of the musical fruit. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.440 I think both variations are valid, and my own musical 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.720 I've heard you're probably you're you're probably combining the idea 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.320 in your head with the idea of magic beans, which 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:50.440 of course are sometimes sold to unspecting fairytale characters. Oh yeah, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.519 Jack and the bean Stalk. There. You know, there's a 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:56.160 thing about the magic beans and the Jack and the 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.279 bean Stalk legend that I wonder about. I wonder if 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.200 the beans have more significance than just being you know, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.759 magic anything that he could have planted in the ground. 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.320 I mean, I guess, of course it is biologically significant 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.120 that their seeds, right, so they go in the ground 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.400 and they grow up a vine or a stalk or something. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.080 But there's an interesting thing that I was becoming more 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.640 and more aware of, uh as I was reading a 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.360 book about beans that we'll talk about in this first 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.120 part today, which is that historically and a lot of cultures, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:29.839 beans have associations with with poverty or with like sort 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.280 of rustic or regular life. Whereas like the elites of 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:36.320 a society might have more access to meet to get 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.320 their protein, regular people to get protein, they get a 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.720 lot of that protein from beans. So beans are often 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.760 associated with being working class or in the case of 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.520 the Jack and the bean Stalk story, being somebody who's 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.040 you know, just struggling to get along with regular life. Yeah. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.040 One thing that came out of of my part of 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:58.080 the research here was that on one level beans, beans 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.080 are kind of boring. Beans are I mean, don't get 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.000 me wrong, beans are, But I mean from a culinary standpoint, 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:10.360 beans are exciting. I love beans. I think that you 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.120 and I both, I think are both fans of Rancho 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.200 Gordo beans free plug there. Um. So, so beans, beans 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:22.480 are wonderful. But but yeah, I think beans don't always 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:27.120 have the most exciting place in various mythologies and stories 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.839 because they do have this association with the common man. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.280 They have this association with um uh with sometimes the 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.840 lower tiers of society in in a given culture, at 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.239 least until the the upper um uh levels of society 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.120 then rediscover it and and start getting curious about what 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.320 the lower levels of society are cooking. Um So at 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.920 times it feels like you they don't get the respect 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.480 that they deserve in terms of our our myth making 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.040 and our story making. Like, I think that's probably the 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.760 reason that that we have this idea of the magic 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.000 being right, because it seems like a stupid thing to buy. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.200 Why would you buy a magic being? A bean? Can't 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.160 be magic? Beans a bean? And yet if we did 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.280 not have beans, just imagine the state we would be in. Like, 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.240 beans are vitally important for feeding the planet. Yeah, that's 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.120 absolutely right. And one of the things I want to 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.520 talk about today is how that's not only true in 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.480 the modern era, but is is true in a historical sense. 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.240 There are a couple of different places at least I 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.720 want to talk about where beans play probably a pivotal 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.200 role in in leading to humanity as it is today. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:33.880 But yeah, in the Jack and the Beanstalk story, I 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:37.280 kind of wonder if getting a bag of magic beans 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.880 is like, you know, it's just like an extremely common 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.560 and not special food item. It's like getting a bag 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.720 of magical bugles. But actually, I think it turns out 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.640 that there's a lot of interest in beings strange ideas 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.880 that people have, where people have connected the concepts of 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.560 beans to two souls and magical beliefs and UH and 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.560 what a bean's relationship to meet is, as well as 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.360 the being relationship to our evolutionary history and UH and 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.320 early human civilization. And so we'll be exploring these things 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:08.960 as we go on, but I want to start off 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:13.960 today by looking at beans in early human civilization. Now, 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.479 of course, beans are seeds biologically, that that is the 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.560 role they play in a plant. There their seeds, and 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.560 the seeds that we call beans come from a family 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.920 of flowering plants called fabaci. That's spelled F A B 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.920 A C E A E, which is one of those fun, 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.760 you know, Latin things to say. But one of the 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.520 main characteristics of these plants is that they have these 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.200 distinctive pods which contain their seeds. And the seeds, of 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.039 course are the beans we know. Now, there are different 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:49.200 genera of beans that that that sort of feed into 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.640 the different culinary traditions around the world. You've got the 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.560 fava beans. You've got the genus Faziola's, which is the 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.440 sort of progenitor of many of the common beans we 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.800 know today, like pinto beans and stuff. All come from 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.440 that family. Of course, you have soybeans, you have lentils, Yes, 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.400 lentils are beans, and all these different beings have played 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.039 important roles in the sort of nutritional package that has 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.440 been developed along with different cultures of the world over 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.679 the past few thousands of years. I was reading about 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.080 this in a book that an e book that I 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.320 downloaded called Beans a History by an author named Ken 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.440 Albala or Albala A L. B. A. L A from 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:37.400 Bloomsbury Publishing in and This author, Ken Albola, is a 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.480 history professor at the University of the Pacific. It seems 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.599 like he has written a lot of books about the 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.800 history of food, and in this book he goes into 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.960 a lot of depth about the often overlooked role of 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:52.520 beans in the history of the human species. For example, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.719 we've spoken at length before about the importance of the 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.560 domestication of grain crops, leading to the rise of the 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.600 first settled civilizations. But in that context, I don't think 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:07.200 we ever really discussed the role of beings. Uh, the 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.960 role of beings such as lentils, and Albala makes a 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.159 lot of this. He has a whole chapter on the 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.600 domestication of wild lentils and argues that they played an 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.760 extremely important role in the nutritional foundation of human civilization. 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.280 So I just want to read a selection from from 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.960 one of his early chapters that gets into this. Albala writes, quote, 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.000 the story of what is called the Neolithic Revolution has 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.200 been told many times. The crucial role of wheat, goats, 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:42.000 and sheep is always emphasized. Legumes, not just lentils, but chickpeas, vetches, 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.680 and later pas somehow gets short shrift, but it is 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.760 likely they play as great or even a greater role 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.640 than meat and dairy in supplying protein to the growing population. 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.440 This is a simple matter of efficiency. Per acre, lentils 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:03.360 provide more calories than grazing cattle. Just as important, Rhizobium bacteria, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.400 which thrive on the root nodules of legumes, draw nitrogen 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.520 from the atmosphere and fix it in the soil. They 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.920 provide a kind of natural fertilizer, which would have in 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.200 turn made the wheat grow better. Furthermore, the stems and 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.840 husks of the plant can be fed to cattle, which 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.640 of course in turn provides more fertilizer. As in many 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:29.960 early agricultural societies, the combination of plants works synergistically in 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.480 the soil, and so does the combination of starches and 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.520 legumes in the human diet. The amino acids lacking in 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:41.400 lintels are supplied by grains, and the lysne missing from 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.800 the grains is supplied by the legumes. That is, a 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.960 person can subsist mainly on this vegetable based diet and 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.600 it will support a large population in a way that 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.840 gathering and hunting cannot. Without the beans, it is certainly 0:07:55.920 --> 0:08:00.400 less likely that these early civilizations would ever have arisen. Yeah, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.640 that that's that really summarizes it well. I think this 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.560 idea especially that that may be hard for for I 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.400 don't guess some folks too to understand in the modern era, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.800 when you when you look at our it's you know, 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.560 the modern love of meat, and and often this idea 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.520 that meat is something that you're going to consume not 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.760 just every day, but like three times a day, you know, 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.040 meat for breakfast, meat for lunch, meat for dinner. Um, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:33.680 when this is meat tea in the afternoon. Yeah, um yeah, 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.560 the meat, coffee, etcetera. Um. But this was not this 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.480 is certainly not always something that that was that could 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.000 be obtained. I mean and uh and and and certainly 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.000 you would have to have ways to fill that that 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.520 protein gap in your diet. And and that's where beans 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.600 come in. I mean, I think anyone who's work to 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.720 limit the amount of meat in your diet, you you 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:02.840 quickly realize how important beans are. Um, like my my, uh, 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.960 my son, uh, you know, decided pretty pretty early on 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.560 that he didn't you know, he basically wanted to be 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.800 a pesketarian or a vegetarian. But for a little while 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.319 he was like, I'm not sure I'm that into beans. 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.000 Then we're like, well, we got news for you. If 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.880 you're if if you're gonna you know, be a pescetarian 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.360 or a vegetarian. Uh, you need to love the being. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.439 You need to to realize how great beans are. And 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.480 uh and and understanding like they're varied ways to consume beans. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.440 You know, I don't think it's a coincidence that a 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.199 lot of the greatest being dishes come from culinary traditions 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.720 that have less emphasis on meat than than some other ones. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.200 Like uh, I think you know how how well lentils 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.719 are used in so much Indian cuisine, Like I love 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.480 Indian lentils. Yeah, I feel like if you take take 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.679 any culinary tradition and you and you look at how 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.200 they're preparing beans, you're you're gonna find some treasures in 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.960 there as long as you dig deeply enough, you know. 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.880 And it's um because yeah, there's just there's just such 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.920 a long tradition of utilizing them and figuring out the 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:09.800 ways to maximize their their flavor. You know. Another way 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.840 that beans are real maximizer type food is in efficiency maximization. 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:19.240 Not just in terms of calories per acre of arable land, 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.760 which elbow It talked about in that section we just discussed. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.200 You know, there's there's more calorie density and growing a 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.559 field of beans than in grazing cattle on that same 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:32.400 amount of area. But also beans can be dried and 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:37.200 stored in a state that is essentially indestructible. And this 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.280 is another thing that I think people who have access 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:45.360 to modern preservation canning, refrigeration, freezers, things like this might 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.720 not appreciate about how important it was in the ancient 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.800 world to have food stocks that would last you through 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.000 the winter at the time when the harvest was not 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.560 going on, you know, when when access to new fresh 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.880 foods was was down to a minimum or down to nothing. 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.240 You had to have something to live off of. And 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.240 of course, you know, this comes into food traditions in 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.560 a lot of different ways. Comes in with like pickling 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.079 and fermentation and that kind of stuff. But also beans 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.120 are an amazing protein source because they can be dried, 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.800 and you can move them around, you can store them 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.040 through the winter or even across multiple seasons. Uh that 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.920 that it's an indispensable resource for that reason. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.000 so it's really it's really kind of a shame that 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.200 I think, you know, particularly in American culinary history, at 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.400 least of the last I mean, I guess we're getting 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.360 out of it to to to a fair degree. But 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.640 for a while, there was this idea like beans were 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.240 a side item and that's all beans were. But but 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.120 beans are ultimately bigger than that. They're they're not just 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.000 the little you know, black or brown or white puddle 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.720 next to your meat. You know, they're the thing that 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.320 that that can can more than dominate the plate when 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.240 the meat is not available or the meat is is 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.480 just not utilized in the household. Think it helps to 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.600 sort of lure people into being appreciation by giving them 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.440 a little slightly more decadent versions of beings, like the 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:12.040 examples I'm thinking of our our falafel, which of course 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.520 is being based that's based on chickpeas mashed up with 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.800 certain spices and other ingredients. But then you deep fry it, 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.040 of course, so it's gonna be nice and crunchy and 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.440 all that on the outside. Or another example I was 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.560 thinking of is I mean, it is hard to beat 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.360 the sort of decadent luxury of some refried beans, which 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.760 are actually in many ways much like the mashed potatoes 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.520 that Americans love on American Thanksgiving and stuff, where you know, 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.400 the primary way of making these is you're gonna be 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.120 mashing up this starchy thing with a bunch of fat. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.160 In the case of refried beans, it might be lard 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.120 or it might be oil, kind of like the butter 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.439 that you would mix up with your classic mashed potatoes. Yeah, 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.280 I would absolutely agree with that I mean you can 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.959 also say the same for a lot of being based 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.280 imitation meats. You know that sometimes some of these in 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:04.240 particular not and they're not health food exactly, but they're 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.720 they're really good. Is as long as you're not hanging 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.440 too much on the meat Moniker in some cases. But 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.520 I think some of the invitation meat today is it's 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.160 gotten extremely good. I mean it's it's to the point 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.280 where I feel like someone would have a hard time guessing, um, 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.320 you know what's real and what is imitation. Um. But 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.880 but I think the same goes for like for for tofu, 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.520 for like soft tofu. Uh, you just present soft tofu 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.040 playing to somebody and um, it might not win them over. 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.440 But cut it up into cubes, um, fry it up 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.880 with a pair of extra long chopsticks like I like 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.240 to do. Uh, put a copious amount of salt and 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.600 pepper on those, and I feel like that should satisfy 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.360 most appetites because you've got your your crunchy, you're soft 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.839 in the middle, you're salty, maybe a little bit of 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:51.360 spice to it if you put something else on it. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.400 You know, I think anybody who's like a big fan 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.200 of like rich big flavor, meaty stews and all that 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.640 give them some mapo tofu. I mean, you can't turn 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:09.880 it down. It's amazing than than But actually I want 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.080 to go deeper into history. So that's the role that 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.679 all Bula argues that beans played in the history of 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.840 human civilization. I want to go farther back. Because I 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.000 was reading about something I thought was very interesting. I 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.360 came across this in a New York Times article from 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:29.960 October of twenty nineteen by Nicholas st. Fleur called Colorado 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:35.040 Fossils show how mammals race to fill dinosaurs void. And 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.320 this article was covering a fossil fine from Colorado from 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.080 a place called Originally I think I was calling it 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.960 Coral Bluffs, but I believe it's Corral Bluffs. CEO r 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.960 R A L. That's Corral. Is that the word Okay, okay, 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.240 my cowboy bona few days are not strong, but but 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.000 I think that is what that is, which, anyway, are 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.080 discussed in a paper that was published in twenty nineteen 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.200 in the journal sig Ants by License at All called 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:07.120 Exceptional Continental Record of Biotic Recovery after the Cretaceous Paleogene 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.440 mass Extinction. Now that extinction event reference there the Cretaceous 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.440 Paleogene mass extinction. We we also sometimes shorten that to 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:19.080 the KPg extinction. UM was a mass extinction roughly sixty 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.120 six million years ago, probably caused in large part by 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.760 a giant impact from space. The leading hypothesis is that 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.880 that was driven by this impact that left what's today 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.720 the cheek Chaloub Crater in the Yucatan Peninsula. And this 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.080 mass extinction, you know, we've talked about many times on 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.600 the show before. It was, of course not the greatest 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.880 mass extinction in Earth's history, but one of the greatest. 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.400 It led to the extinction of the non avian dinosaurs 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.880 and more broadly, roughly three quarters of the species on Earth. 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.000 But of course this event is not just relevant to 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.880 the dinosaurs who died in it, but it's highly relevant 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:01.720 to us because in the equal logical void left when 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.640 dinosaurs were wiped out, suddenly there was a lot of room. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.800 There was a lot of room for another order of 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.040 terrestrial animals to take over the space evacuated by the 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.920 dead dinosaurs. Of course, that was the mammals, our ancestors. Uh. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.760 And we've talked before about some of the interesting biological 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.600 dynamics that were in play during this time. One of 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.640 the things I remember us talking about was the role 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.800 of fungus in allowing mammals to ascend during this period. 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.440 I think this was covered in our episode on prototaxids. 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.440 These giant uh these giants potentially fungus, you know, stalks 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.440 that would have been found hundreds of millions of years ago. Um. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.160 I remember us talking about a CBC documentary that was 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.600 discussing how in the wake of the KPg extinction event, So, 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.760 of course, the space impact would kick up tons of 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.880 dust into the atmosphere that would darken the skies, and 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.600 this would lead to tons tons of dead, decaying plant 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.040 matter under this darkened sky. And so in this world 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.040 of sort of darkened skies and dead decaying plant matter, 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.040 this is a perfect invitation for fungi to thrive. And 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.199 of course all of this fungus around would represent a 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.760 threat to the survival of some of the remaining animals, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.600 but it wouldn't affect all animals equally, because suddenly our 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:27.720 mammalian ancestors, by having warm blooded bodies, would have much 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:32.360 better protection against fungal infections than cold blooded animals such 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.879 as the then dominant reptiles. It's a this this world 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.679 is is interesting to try and imagine. It's kind of 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.200 a so again, it's a world of of of rot 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.320 and decay and fungus. It's a world of of of 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:52.199 rats on the ascent, uh it um. I'm tempted to 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:57.159 compare it to the in in the the Warhammer fantasy setting. 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.159 There's this chaos god that's the named Nergal, which I 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.800 guess is you know, derived from Nergal, the the ancient 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.840 deity that we've discussed recently on the Yeah. And but anyway, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.880 this chaos god is a god of of decay and 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.680 uh and disease. But but often more often than not, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:22.160 the symbology is that of decay and mushrooms and fungus. Uh. 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.840 But then also occasionally these hordes of of of rats, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.480 like bipedal rats with with blades and such. So uh, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.880 this would be a fitting time for for fans of 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.560 of that faction. I think, I don't know about sword 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.320 wielding rats be a time of orman. But but but 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.280 they're on the move, they're on the ascent, you know. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.840 So it's it's almost like the modern idea of rats 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.639 taking up weapons and and and gaining our spot in 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.160 the world. And I mean that's basically what's going on here. 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.800 Like these these small, in many ways pitiful organisms, when 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.520 you compare them to the previous lords of the earth. Uh, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.320 they have this chance to rise up and take their spot, 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:03.879 and they do. And we are we are the descendants 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.879 of that that revolution. Yeah, because of this adaptation of 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.840 having warm blooded bodies that would help fight off fungal infection. 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.040 Like I actually found a quote that we featured in 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.320 that previous episode that was from Arturo casad Devol, who 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.640 is a professor of public health at Johns Hopkins University, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.320 who said, quote, the reptiles are quite susceptible to fungal diseases. 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.159 But your typical mammal, which maintains a temperature in the 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.280 mid thirties or so, that would be celsius, creates a 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.320 thermal exclusionary zone for fungi. So we have like the 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.040 invisible armor. It's not a shell on the outside, it's 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.639 not scales. We've got heat armor. But anyway, so this 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.000 time that spelled doom or at least a suppression for 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:47.720 many reptile or cold blooded species, gave gave an opportunity 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.840 for mammals to really thrive. And so that's one way 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.600 that the wake of the KPg extinction was a pivotal 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.639 time for mammal ascendency. There were just suddenly all these opportunities. 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.560 So some of these things would be opportunities for new 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.640 ecological niches, new ways to get food that previously were 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:09.240 monopolized by you know, better competitive species in the dinosaur clade. 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.359 And it would be new habitats to explore and things 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.520 like that. Also, no more dinosaurs eating you all the time, 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.760 that's a plus. I was actually reading a Reuter's article 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.840 by a writer named Will Dunham about the same research 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:25.000 from the journal Science in twenty nineteen, and it's talking 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:29.040 about the how mammals got bigger after the KPg extinction, 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.879 and so talking about mammals, Dunham rights quote, within seven 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.160 hundred thousand years of the mass extinction, their body mass 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.480 had become one hundred times bigger than the mammals living 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:44.000 immediately after the mass extinction, and so charting the increase 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:47.000 is pretty amazing. Uh. To to read another section from 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.159 the article here from Reuter's here quote the mammals that 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.400 survived the asteroid were mainly small omnivores the largest being 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.280 the size of a rat and weighing about a pound 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.320 or about half a kilogram. So here again we got 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.040 rat world, right is you know, it's fungus all over 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.840 the place, mold rat world, that kind of thing. Dead 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.560 dinosaurs and then um. Within a hundred thousand years of 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:14.399 the extinction event, mammals reached about thirteen pounds or six kilograms. 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.120 By three hundred thousand years after the extinction, they got 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:22.040 to fifty five pounds or twenty five rams with the 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:26.760 first purely herbivorous mammalian species. By seven hundred thousand years 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.119 after the asteroid, some mammals weighed more than a hundred 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.440 and ten pounds or fifty kilograms. So this is talking 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.560 about how like, you know, within like less than a 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.000 million years, you've got mammals growing from from rat size 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.639 to like wolf size. Yeah, I mean again swords and 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:48.200 cloaks aside. It sounds like yeah, uh so it's because 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.120 of this extinction that we exist. This is an important 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.080 thing to remember, Like we are the descendants of these mammals. 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:56.760 At some point our ancestor you go back through your 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.720 parents and way way down the line we trace back 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:03.240 to some kind of rat like creature that survived the 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.800 KPg extinction. But one of the interesting things is that 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.520 scientists don't have a whole lot of fossils from the 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:12.520 time right after this mass extinction, at least not as 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:14.560 many fossils as they would like to get a fully 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:19.000 fleshed out picture of how the mammal world recovered after 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.720 this event. And so this New York Times article in 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.320 the Reuter's article that I've been talking about, or about, 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.679 this paper from Science about a fossil cash discovered in 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:32.119 Colorado that gives us more insight into the ecology and 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:35.880 local mammal life from right after that time. It catalogs 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.879 a bunch of different mammal species that are all kind 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.080 of interesting, some growing to the size of like a 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.800 like a prehistoric copy Bara. But one of the interesting 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.080 things about this record is how it connects to the 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:50.240 subject of beans, because this fossil site also can tell 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.560 us a lot about what was going on with plants 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.879 right around the same time and the stages in which 0:22:55.960 --> 0:23:00.000 plants recovered after the Great Dyeing sixty six million years ago. 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.399 So I want to read a section here from the 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:05.200