1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: My welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick. And today we're gonna be kicking off the 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: first of a two part series where we're going to 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: be looking at one of my favorite things in nature, 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: the bean. Uh you might say the humble being a 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: child chanting in the playground might say the magical fruit, 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: or wait, was it the magical fruit of the musical fruit. 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: I think both variations are valid, and my own musical 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: I've heard you're probably you're you're probably combining the idea 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: in your head with the idea of magic beans, which 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: of course are sometimes sold to unspecting fairytale characters. Oh yeah, 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: Jack and the bean Stalk. There. You know, there's a 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: thing about the magic beans and the Jack and the 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: bean Stalk legend that I wonder about. I wonder if 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: the beans have more significance than just being you know, 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: magic anything that he could have planted in the ground. 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess, of course it is biologically significant 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: that their seeds, right, so they go in the ground 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: and they grow up a vine or a stalk or something. 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: But there's an interesting thing that I was becoming more 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: and more aware of, uh as I was reading a 24 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: book about beans that we'll talk about in this first 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: part today, which is that historically and a lot of cultures, 26 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: beans have associations with with poverty or with like sort 27 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: of rustic or regular life. Whereas like the elites of 28 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: a society might have more access to meet to get 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: their protein, regular people to get protein, they get a 30 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: lot of that protein from beans. So beans are often 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: associated with being working class or in the case of 32 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: the Jack and the bean Stalk story, being somebody who's 33 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, just struggling to get along with regular life. Yeah. 34 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: One thing that came out of of my part of 35 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: the research here was that on one level beans, beans 36 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: are kind of boring. Beans are I mean, don't get 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: me wrong, beans are, But I mean from a culinary standpoint, 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: beans are exciting. I love beans. I think that you 39 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: and I both, I think are both fans of Rancho 40 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: Gordo beans free plug there. Um. So, so beans, beans 41 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: are wonderful. But but yeah, I think beans don't always 42 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: have the most exciting place in various mythologies and stories 43 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 1: because they do have this association with the common man. 44 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: They have this association with um uh with sometimes the 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: lower tiers of society in in a given culture, at 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: least until the the upper um uh levels of society 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: then rediscover it and and start getting curious about what 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: the lower levels of society are cooking. Um So at 49 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: times it feels like you they don't get the respect 50 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: that they deserve in terms of our our myth making 51 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: and our story making. Like, I think that's probably the 52 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: reason that that we have this idea of the magic 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: being right, because it seems like a stupid thing to buy. 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: Why would you buy a magic being? A bean? Can't 55 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: be magic? Beans a bean? And yet if we did 56 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: not have beans, just imagine the state we would be in. Like, 57 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: beans are vitally important for feeding the planet. Yeah, that's 58 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: absolutely right. And one of the things I want to 59 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: talk about today is how that's not only true in 60 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: the modern era, but is is true in a historical sense. 61 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: There are a couple of different places at least I 62 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: want to talk about where beans play probably a pivotal 63 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: role in in leading to humanity as it is today. 64 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, in the Jack and the Beanstalk story, I 65 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: kind of wonder if getting a bag of magic beans 66 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: is like, you know, it's just like an extremely common 67 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: and not special food item. It's like getting a bag 68 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: of magical bugles. But actually, I think it turns out 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of interest in beings strange ideas 70 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: that people have, where people have connected the concepts of 71 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: beans to two souls and magical beliefs and UH and 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: what a bean's relationship to meet is, as well as 73 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: the being relationship to our evolutionary history and UH and 74 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: early human civilization. And so we'll be exploring these things 75 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: as we go on, but I want to start off 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: today by looking at beans in early human civilization. Now, 77 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: of course, beans are seeds biologically, that that is the 78 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: role they play in a plant. There their seeds, and 79 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: the seeds that we call beans come from a family 80 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: of flowering plants called fabaci. That's spelled F A B 81 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: A C E A E, which is one of those fun, 82 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, Latin things to say. But one of the 83 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: main characteristics of these plants is that they have these 84 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: distinctive pods which contain their seeds. And the seeds, of 85 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: course are the beans we know. Now, there are different 86 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: genera of beans that that that sort of feed into 87 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: the different culinary traditions around the world. You've got the 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: fava beans. You've got the genus Faziola's, which is the 89 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: sort of progenitor of many of the common beans we 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: know today, like pinto beans and stuff. All come from 91 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: that family. Of course, you have soybeans, you have lentils, Yes, 92 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: lentils are beans, and all these different beings have played 93 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: important roles in the sort of nutritional package that has 94 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: been developed along with different cultures of the world over 95 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 1: the past few thousands of years. I was reading about 96 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: this in a book that an e book that I 97 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: downloaded called Beans a History by an author named Ken 98 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: Albala or Albala A L. B. A. L A from 99 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: Bloomsbury Publishing in and This author, Ken Albola, is a 100 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: history professor at the University of the Pacific. It seems 101 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: like he has written a lot of books about the 102 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: history of food, and in this book he goes into 103 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: a lot of depth about the often overlooked role of 104 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: beans in the history of the human species. For example, 105 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: we've spoken at length before about the importance of the 106 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: domestication of grain crops, leading to the rise of the 107 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: first settled civilizations. But in that context, I don't think 108 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: we ever really discussed the role of beings. Uh, the 109 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: role of beings such as lentils, and Albala makes a 110 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: lot of this. He has a whole chapter on the 111 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: domestication of wild lentils and argues that they played an 112 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: extremely important role in the nutritional foundation of human civilization. 113 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: So I just want to read a selection from from 114 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: one of his early chapters that gets into this. Albala writes, quote, 115 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: the story of what is called the Neolithic Revolution has 116 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: been told many times. The crucial role of wheat, goats, 117 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: and sheep is always emphasized. Legumes, not just lentils, but chickpeas, vetches, 118 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: and later pas somehow gets short shrift, but it is 119 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: likely they play as great or even a greater role 120 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: than meat and dairy in supplying protein to the growing population. 121 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: This is a simple matter of efficiency. Per acre, lentils 122 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: provide more calories than grazing cattle. Just as important, Rhizobium bacteria, 123 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: which thrive on the root nodules of legumes, draw nitrogen 124 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: from the atmosphere and fix it in the soil. They 125 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: provide a kind of natural fertilizer, which would have in 126 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: turn made the wheat grow better. Furthermore, the stems and 127 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: husks of the plant can be fed to cattle, which 128 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: of course in turn provides more fertilizer. As in many 129 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: early agricultural societies, the combination of plants works synergistically in 130 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: the soil, and so does the combination of starches and 131 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: legumes in the human diet. The amino acids lacking in 132 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: lintels are supplied by grains, and the lysne missing from 133 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: the grains is supplied by the legumes. That is, a 134 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: person can subsist mainly on this vegetable based diet and 135 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: it will support a large population in a way that 136 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: gathering and hunting cannot. Without the beans, it is certainly 137 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: less likely that these early civilizations would ever have arisen. Yeah, 138 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: that that's that really summarizes it well. I think this 139 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: idea especially that that may be hard for for I 140 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: don't guess some folks too to understand in the modern era, 141 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: when you when you look at our it's you know, 142 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: the modern love of meat, and and often this idea 143 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: that meat is something that you're going to consume not 144 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: just every day, but like three times a day, you know, 145 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: meat for breakfast, meat for lunch, meat for dinner. Um, 146 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: when this is meat tea in the afternoon. Yeah, um yeah, 147 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: the meat, coffee, etcetera. Um. But this was not this 148 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: is certainly not always something that that was that could 149 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: be obtained. I mean and uh and and and certainly 150 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: you would have to have ways to fill that that 151 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: protein gap in your diet. And and that's where beans 152 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: come in. I mean, I think anyone who's work to 153 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: limit the amount of meat in your diet, you you 154 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: quickly realize how important beans are. Um, like my my, uh, 155 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: my son, uh, you know, decided pretty pretty early on 156 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: that he didn't you know, he basically wanted to be 157 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: a pesketarian or a vegetarian. But for a little while 158 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: he was like, I'm not sure I'm that into beans. 159 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: Then we're like, well, we got news for you. If 160 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: you're if if you're gonna you know, be a pescetarian 161 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: or a vegetarian. Uh, you need to love the being. 162 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: You need to to realize how great beans are. And 163 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: uh and and understanding like they're varied ways to consume beans. 164 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think it's a coincidence that a 165 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: lot of the greatest being dishes come from culinary traditions 166 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: that have less emphasis on meat than than some other ones. 167 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: Like uh, I think you know how how well lentils 168 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 1: are used in so much Indian cuisine, Like I love 169 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: Indian lentils. Yeah, I feel like if you take take 170 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: any culinary tradition and you and you look at how 171 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: they're preparing beans, you're you're gonna find some treasures in 172 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: there as long as you dig deeply enough, you know. 173 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: And it's um because yeah, there's just there's just such 174 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: a long tradition of utilizing them and figuring out the 175 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: ways to maximize their their flavor. You know. Another way 176 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: that beans are real maximizer type food is in efficiency maximization. 177 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: Not just in terms of calories per acre of arable land, 178 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: which elbow It talked about in that section we just discussed. 179 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's more calorie density and growing a 180 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: field of beans than in grazing cattle on that same 181 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: amount of area. But also beans can be dried and 182 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: stored in a state that is essentially indestructible. And this 183 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: is another thing that I think people who have access 184 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: to modern preservation canning, refrigeration, freezers, things like this might 185 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: not appreciate about how important it was in the ancient 186 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: world to have food stocks that would last you through 187 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: the winter at the time when the harvest was not 188 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: going on, you know, when when access to new fresh 189 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: foods was was down to a minimum or down to nothing. 190 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: You had to have something to live off of. And 191 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: of course, you know, this comes into food traditions in 192 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: a lot of different ways. Comes in with like pickling 193 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: and fermentation and that kind of stuff. But also beans 194 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: are an amazing protein source because they can be dried, 195 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: and you can move them around, you can store them 196 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: through the winter or even across multiple seasons. Uh that 197 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: that it's an indispensable resource for that reason. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 198 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: so it's really it's really kind of a shame that 199 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: I think, you know, particularly in American culinary history, at 200 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: least of the last I mean, I guess we're getting 201 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: out of it to to to a fair degree. But 202 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: for a while, there was this idea like beans were 203 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: a side item and that's all beans were. But but 204 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: beans are ultimately bigger than that. They're they're not just 205 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: the little you know, black or brown or white puddle 206 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: next to your meat. You know, they're the thing that 207 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: that that can can more than dominate the plate when 208 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: the meat is not available or the meat is is 209 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: just not utilized in the household. Think it helps to 210 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: sort of lure people into being appreciation by giving them 211 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: a little slightly more decadent versions of beings, like the 212 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: examples I'm thinking of our our falafel, which of course 213 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: is being based that's based on chickpeas mashed up with 214 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: certain spices and other ingredients. But then you deep fry it, 215 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: of course, so it's gonna be nice and crunchy and 216 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: all that on the outside. Or another example I was 217 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: thinking of is I mean, it is hard to beat 218 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: the sort of decadent luxury of some refried beans, which 219 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: are actually in many ways much like the mashed potatoes 220 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: that Americans love on American Thanksgiving and stuff, where you know, 221 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: the primary way of making these is you're gonna be 222 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: mashing up this starchy thing with a bunch of fat. 223 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: In the case of refried beans, it might be lard 224 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: or it might be oil, kind of like the butter 225 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: that you would mix up with your classic mashed potatoes. Yeah, 226 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: I would absolutely agree with that I mean you can 227 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 1: also say the same for a lot of being based 228 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: imitation meats. You know that sometimes some of these in 229 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: particular not and they're not health food exactly, but they're 230 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: they're really good. Is as long as you're not hanging 231 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: too much on the meat Moniker in some cases. But 232 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: I think some of the invitation meat today is it's 233 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: gotten extremely good. I mean it's it's to the point 234 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: where I feel like someone would have a hard time guessing, um, 235 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: you know what's real and what is imitation. Um. But 236 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: but I think the same goes for like for for tofu, 237 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: for like soft tofu. Uh, you just present soft tofu 238 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: playing to somebody and um, it might not win them over. 239 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: But cut it up into cubes, um, fry it up 240 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: with a pair of extra long chopsticks like I like 241 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: to do. Uh, put a copious amount of salt and 242 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: pepper on those, and I feel like that should satisfy 243 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: most appetites because you've got your your crunchy, you're soft 244 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: in the middle, you're salty, maybe a little bit of 245 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: spice to it if you put something else on it. 246 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: You know, I think anybody who's like a big fan 247 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: of like rich big flavor, meaty stews and all that 248 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: give them some mapo tofu. I mean, you can't turn 249 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: it down. It's amazing than than But actually I want 250 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: to go deeper into history. So that's the role that 251 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: all Bula argues that beans played in the history of 252 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: human civilization. I want to go farther back. Because I 253 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: was reading about something I thought was very interesting. I 254 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: came across this in a New York Times article from 255 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: October of twenty nineteen by Nicholas st. Fleur called Colorado 256 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: Fossils show how mammals race to fill dinosaurs void. And 257 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: this article was covering a fossil fine from Colorado from 258 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: a place called Originally I think I was calling it 259 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: Coral Bluffs, but I believe it's Corral Bluffs. CEO r 260 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: R A L. That's Corral. Is that the word Okay, okay, 261 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: my cowboy bona few days are not strong, but but 262 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: I think that is what that is, which, anyway, are 263 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: discussed in a paper that was published in twenty nineteen 264 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: in the journal sig Ants by License at All called 265 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: Exceptional Continental Record of Biotic Recovery after the Cretaceous Paleogene 266 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: mass Extinction. Now that extinction event reference there the Cretaceous 267 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: Paleogene mass extinction. We we also sometimes shorten that to 268 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: the KPg extinction. UM was a mass extinction roughly sixty 269 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: six million years ago, probably caused in large part by 270 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: a giant impact from space. The leading hypothesis is that 271 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: that was driven by this impact that left what's today 272 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: the cheek Chaloub Crater in the Yucatan Peninsula. And this 273 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: mass extinction, you know, we've talked about many times on 274 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: the show before. It was, of course not the greatest 275 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: mass extinction in Earth's history, but one of the greatest. 276 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: It led to the extinction of the non avian dinosaurs 277 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and more broadly, roughly three quarters of the species on Earth. 278 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: But of course this event is not just relevant to 279 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: the dinosaurs who died in it, but it's highly relevant 280 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: to us because in the equal logical void left when 281 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: dinosaurs were wiped out, suddenly there was a lot of room. 282 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: There was a lot of room for another order of 283 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: terrestrial animals to take over the space evacuated by the 284 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: dead dinosaurs. Of course, that was the mammals, our ancestors. Uh. 285 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: And we've talked before about some of the interesting biological 286 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: dynamics that were in play during this time. One of 287 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: the things I remember us talking about was the role 288 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: of fungus in allowing mammals to ascend during this period. 289 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: I think this was covered in our episode on prototaxids. 290 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: These giant uh these giants potentially fungus, you know, stalks 291 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: that would have been found hundreds of millions of years ago. Um. 292 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: I remember us talking about a CBC documentary that was 293 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: discussing how in the wake of the KPg extinction event, So, 294 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: of course, the space impact would kick up tons of 295 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: dust into the atmosphere that would darken the skies, and 296 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: this would lead to tons tons of dead, decaying plant 297 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: matter under this darkened sky. And so in this world 298 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: of sort of darkened skies and dead decaying plant matter, 299 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: this is a perfect invitation for fungi to thrive. And 300 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: of course all of this fungus around would represent a 301 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: threat to the survival of some of the remaining animals, 302 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't affect all animals equally, because suddenly our 303 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: mammalian ancestors, by having warm blooded bodies, would have much 304 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: better protection against fungal infections than cold blooded animals such 305 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: as the then dominant reptiles. It's a this this world 306 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: is is interesting to try and imagine. It's kind of 307 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: a so again, it's a world of of of rot 308 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: and decay and fungus. It's a world of of of 309 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: rats on the ascent, uh it um. I'm tempted to 310 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: compare it to the in in the the Warhammer fantasy setting. 311 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: There's this chaos god that's the named Nergal, which I 312 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: guess is you know, derived from Nergal, the the ancient 313 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: deity that we've discussed recently on the Yeah. And but anyway, 314 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: this chaos god is a god of of decay and 315 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: uh and disease. But but often more often than not, 316 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: the symbology is that of decay and mushrooms and fungus. Uh. 317 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: But then also occasionally these hordes of of of rats, 318 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: like bipedal rats with with blades and such. So uh, 319 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: this would be a fitting time for for fans of 320 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: of that faction. I think, I don't know about sword 321 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: wielding rats be a time of orman. But but but 322 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: they're on the move, they're on the ascent, you know. 323 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: So it's it's almost like the modern idea of rats 324 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: taking up weapons and and and gaining our spot in 325 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: the world. And I mean that's basically what's going on here. 326 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: Like these these small, in many ways pitiful organisms, when 327 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: you compare them to the previous lords of the earth. Uh, 328 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: they have this chance to rise up and take their spot, 329 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: and they do. And we are we are the descendants 330 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: of that that revolution. Yeah, because of this adaptation of 331 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: having warm blooded bodies that would help fight off fungal infection. 332 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: Like I actually found a quote that we featured in 333 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: that previous episode that was from Arturo casad Devol, who 334 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: is a professor of public health at Johns Hopkins University, 335 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: who said, quote, the reptiles are quite susceptible to fungal diseases. 336 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: But your typical mammal, which maintains a temperature in the 337 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: mid thirties or so, that would be celsius, creates a 338 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: thermal exclusionary zone for fungi. So we have like the 339 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: invisible armor. It's not a shell on the outside, it's 340 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: not scales. We've got heat armor. But anyway, so this 341 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: time that spelled doom or at least a suppression for 342 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: many reptile or cold blooded species, gave gave an opportunity 343 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: for mammals to really thrive. And so that's one way 344 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: that the wake of the KPg extinction was a pivotal 345 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: time for mammal ascendency. There were just suddenly all these opportunities. 346 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: So some of these things would be opportunities for new 347 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: ecological niches, new ways to get food that previously were 348 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: monopolized by you know, better competitive species in the dinosaur clade. 349 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: And it would be new habitats to explore and things 350 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: like that. Also, no more dinosaurs eating you all the time, 351 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: that's a plus. I was actually reading a Reuter's article 352 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: by a writer named Will Dunham about the same research 353 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: from the journal Science in twenty nineteen, and it's talking 354 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: about the how mammals got bigger after the KPg extinction, 355 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: and so talking about mammals, Dunham rights quote, within seven 356 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: hundred thousand years of the mass extinction, their body mass 357 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: had become one hundred times bigger than the mammals living 358 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: immediately after the mass extinction, and so charting the increase 359 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: is pretty amazing. Uh. To to read another section from 360 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: the article here from Reuter's here quote the mammals that 361 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: survived the asteroid were mainly small omnivores the largest being 362 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: the size of a rat and weighing about a pound 363 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: or about half a kilogram. So here again we got 364 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: rat world, right is you know, it's fungus all over 365 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: the place, mold rat world, that kind of thing. Dead 366 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: dinosaurs and then um. Within a hundred thousand years of 367 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: the extinction event, mammals reached about thirteen pounds or six kilograms. 368 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: By three hundred thousand years after the extinction, they got 369 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: to fifty five pounds or twenty five rams with the 370 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: first purely herbivorous mammalian species. By seven hundred thousand years 371 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: after the asteroid, some mammals weighed more than a hundred 372 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: and ten pounds or fifty kilograms. So this is talking 373 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: about how like, you know, within like less than a 374 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: million years, you've got mammals growing from from rat size 375 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: to like wolf size. Yeah, I mean again swords and 376 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: cloaks aside. It sounds like yeah, uh so it's because 377 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: of this extinction that we exist. This is an important 378 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: thing to remember, Like we are the descendants of these mammals. 379 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: At some point our ancestor you go back through your 380 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: parents and way way down the line we trace back 381 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: to some kind of rat like creature that survived the 382 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: KPg extinction. But one of the interesting things is that 383 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: scientists don't have a whole lot of fossils from the 384 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: time right after this mass extinction, at least not as 385 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: many fossils as they would like to get a fully 386 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: fleshed out picture of how the mammal world recovered after 387 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: this event. And so this New York Times article in 388 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: the Reuter's article that I've been talking about, or about, 389 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: this paper from Science about a fossil cash discovered in 390 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: Colorado that gives us more insight into the ecology and 391 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: local mammal life from right after that time. It catalogs 392 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: a bunch of different mammal species that are all kind 393 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: of interesting, some growing to the size of like a 394 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: like a prehistoric copy Bara. But one of the interesting 395 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: things about this record is how it connects to the 396 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: subject of beans, because this fossil site also can tell 397 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: us a lot about what was going on with plants 398 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: right around the same time and the stages in which 399 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: plants recovered after the Great Dyeing sixty six million years ago. 400 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: So I want to read a section here from the 401 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: New York Times article by st. Fleur that the catalogs 402 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: this progression of plants. So you've got the mass extinction, 403 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: and then quote first came the ferns with their feather 404 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: like leaves. They proliferated across the waste land for many 405 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: hundreds of years to a couple of thousand years, paving 406 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: the way for forests to rebound. Next, the palms paraded 407 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: in dominating the green scene for hundreds of thousands of years. 408 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: Then around three hundred thousand years after the catastrophe, a 409 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: diverse array of walnuts appeared That coincided with the jump 410 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: in diversity and body size of herbivorous mammals, which suggests 411 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: they were an important food source. We call that world 412 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 1: the pecan pie world, said Ian Miller, a paleobotanist at 413 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the Denver Museum of Natural Science. He added that this 414 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: epic also coincided with a warming period in the fossil record, 415 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: which could indicate that a shifting climate played a role 416 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: in the development of plants and animals following the extinction event. 417 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: But then it gets to another interesting plant development after 418 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: this discovery the world's first known bean pod. So now 419 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: I want to read a sections from this article published 420 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: in Science. This again is by license at all and 421 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: the authors here right quote. The Corral Bluff section provides 422 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: the oldest known occurrence of the legumento say or being 423 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: family represented by fossil seed pods and leaflets, stated sixty 424 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: five point three five million years ago. The oldest previously 425 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: recognized legume is based on wood and leaflets from early 426 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: Paleocene rocks of Argentina, whereas the earliest legumes seed pods 427 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: are not recognized until the late Paleo scene roughly fifty 428 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: eight million years ago of Columbia. Our discovery supports a 429 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: nearly synchronous first appearance of legumes in North America and 430 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: southern South America, a rapid diversification for the group in 431 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: the earliest paleo scene, and their apparent origin nation in 432 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: the Western Hemisphere. So to summarize they found this bean pod, 433 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: I think actually they talked about how um the record 434 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: of this bean pod was discovered by a high school 435 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: student who was helping excavate the site. And I believe 436 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: there's a documentary that you can find that PBS did 437 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: about this fossil record discovery, and that might get into 438 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: more detail about the discovery process. But this bean ancestor 439 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: was dated to something like seven hundred thousand years after 440 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: the mass extinction event, and it was also timed in 441 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: synchronization with this warming pulse in the Earth's atmosphere as 442 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: well as, as we pointed out earlier, to the appearance 443 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: of wolf sized mammals. So the authors here suggest that, well, 444 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: maybe these beans were helping to provide calorie dents food 445 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: sources to these mammals as they're getting bigger. This is 446 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: not known for sure, but this seems like a quite 447 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: reasonable hypothesis to be explored more. Uh Dr Miller, who 448 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: I quoted earlier, said quote, we liken them to the 449 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: protein bars of the ancient world. So the appearance of 450 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: these first beans, this bean pot ancestor, appears to be 451 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: time to a sudden shift upward in mammalian body mass. 452 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: And this makes it look at least possible and worthy 453 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: of further explanation that protein rich beans were a nutritional 454 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: driver for mammal ascendency. So beans were the protein bars, 455 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: and then these various mammals they were the lift They 456 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: were the power lifters, they were they were the ones 457 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: putting on mass. Okay, well, at least potentially what right, Well, 458 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: what we've established so far is just this interesting correlation 459 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: in the appearance of the of these species. We don't 460 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: know for sure that like what was eating what? But uh, 461 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, it definitely seems worth looking into more because 462 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, as I think I've established by this point, 463 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: I'm all in favor of being propaganda whatever whatever makes 464 00:26:52,119 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: beans look good. None. Next year, I did have a 465 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: section about beans and flatulence, but I'm actually thinking maybe 466 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: I'm gonna save that for part two. Yeah, maybe we 467 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: can hold that and uh and release it in the 468 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: next episode. I think that's a good idea. So I 469 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: think I'm just gonna clench down and see if we 470 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: we can save that for the next one, give you 471 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: incentive to return. But next time we're gonna be talking 472 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: about all kinds of crazy being stuff, beans and souls, 473 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: beans and farts. It's going to be it'll be a blast, 474 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: so to speak. But wait, we're not done yet. No, no, no, 475 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: We've got We've got more stuff to discuss here, more 476 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 1: early early being history. Um are our attempts to understand 477 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: early being history. And uh, I think a little bit 478 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: of magic and mythology related to beans. So as usual 479 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: for for all things ancient, one of my first stops 480 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: in looking at this topic was to start flipping around 481 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: in the seventy grade Inventions of the Ancient World. That's 482 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: the book by anthropologist Brian and Fagan. But the different 483 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: sections of it, UH he'll work with with other experts, 484 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: and in in the section dealing with ancient cereal crops, 485 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: he worked with Stephen Mithin, professor of prehistory at the 486 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: University of Reading. And this mostly UH mostly focused and 487 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: focused on various cereal crops. But there's a really good 488 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: part of this that deals with um with the domestication 489 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: of beans and other plants in the America's and they 490 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: point out that there there seemed to have been two 491 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: centers of plant domestication in the America's. First of all, 492 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: there is the There was the the Andes, and this 493 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: would have focused mostly on keenoa but also on the potato. 494 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: And then in Central Mexico you have that trifecta of 495 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: maize or corn, beans and squash. Now, in both of 496 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: these cases the domestications were undertaken by unsettled mobile peoples. 497 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: And we've touched on this before about the idea, you know, 498 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: sometimes we have this sort of this rough simple version 499 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: in our head of of what it means for people 500 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: to stop moving around and start growing crops. You know, 501 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: the ideas like should we hunt him gather anymore? No, 502 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: let's just settle here and grow some being. It doesn't 503 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: seem to quite work like that in history, right that 504 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: it seems hard to imagine a scenario when somebody who 505 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: like grew up as a hunter gatherer was just like, Okay, 506 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: now we're planting crops. You know. It seems like there's 507 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: a more gradual transition of uh sort of the slow 508 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: partial domestication of wild grains and crops, and over time 509 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: this leads to the realization that this could become a 510 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: full time living Yeah, And ultimately I think this is 511 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: a more realistic um we have looking at it and 512 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: understanding it, because otherwise, if you if you have that 513 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: that that full stop and then shift to plant domestication 514 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: or animal domestication, I feel like there's a gap there 515 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: in the in in our brains, and it's a gap 516 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: that some of us may want to insert aliens in. 517 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: You know, you start thinking like, well, how did we 518 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: how did we get the idea to grow and domesticate 519 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: beans or turn wheat into flour um something must have 520 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: told us how to do it. There must have been 521 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: some magic flame, or some gimmi god, or some sort 522 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: of alien being. And of course there are there are 523 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: plenty of tremendous myths and folk tales that that kind 524 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: of deal with that exact situation. And we'll get to 525 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: a couple of examples in a bit. You know, those 526 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: stories are good enough that you don't need to make 527 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: up a new one. That's right. You don't need to say, oh, 528 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: is aliens that gave us farming? Alright, So wild beans 529 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: grow throughout Central America, and a cluster of wild beings 530 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: around Guadalajara seemed to be the common ancestor of the 531 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: common domesticated being that we mentioned earlier. This was what 532 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: a Fasiolus vulgaris. And this species comes in in many 533 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: different forms, including red beans, pinto beans, and kidney beans. Yeah, 534 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: a lot of the beans weet today are our variations 535 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: on faziolas. Faziolus the genus more broadly, and Faziolis vulgaris 536 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: the common being. Now you might wonder, well, what what's 537 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: the difference between between this wonderful being and the various 538 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: wild beans. What's the main difference. Well, it has to 539 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: do with how the bean pods split open in the wild. 540 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 1: The bean pod just eventually splits open, spills the seeds 541 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: so that maybe it may be spread, you know, by 542 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: largely by various organisms. But this was gradually bred out 543 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: of domesticated beans, as people repeatedly picked bean pods that 544 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: were less prone to splitting apart. And it's unsure to 545 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: what degree this was intentional or accidental, you know, maybe 546 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: mixes of both at different times, but the results were 547 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: domesticated bean species that could not spread their seeds without 548 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: the aid of human harvesters. Interesting now, you might wonder, Okay, 549 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: when does this take place? Well, Fagan and Mythn wrote 550 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: that the dating, at the least at the time of 551 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: their writing was patchy at best uh, and they did 552 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: not provide a rough estimate for the for these beans 553 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: in Central America, though the squash seems to have undergone 554 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: biological domestic change by umred BC and maze by fort 555 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: hundred BC. Keinoa again in the south dates roughly to 556 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: five thousand BC. I love this kind of puzzle in 557 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,959 Speaker 1: human history, of like putting together what kind of like 558 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: human activity could have led to the like changes in 559 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: the evolution of a plant species like this that like 560 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: without even necessarily intending to Yeah, yeah, what sorts of 561 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: choices be they you know, just just very direct choices 562 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: or just sort of sort of uh, gradual selections take 563 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: place by humans interacting with the natural world. Now, I 564 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: think you promised me some bean myths from ancient meso America, 565 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: didn't you. Yes, yes, so so again, like we said, 566 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be that gap in which you 567 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: insert the divine, but it's it's often it's it's often 568 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: very interesting and entertaining and uh and and and also 569 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's a sacred when you have uh have 570 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: a god slip into that role. And indeed, there's a 571 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,479 Speaker 1: wonderful Aztec myth that I came across about the bringing 572 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: of grains and seeds into the human diet, which I 573 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: read about in Aztec and Maya Myths by Carl Tobb. 574 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: This is from UM. Now, now I should be clear 575 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: that there are several different myths about the origins of maize. 576 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: In particular because maze or corn is just vitally important 577 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: uh to uh to Central American cultures, and at times 578 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: they're described as a kind of sacred flesh or the 579 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: precursor to human flesh, or the flesh of the gods. 580 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: Maize is life, but beans are nice to beans, maybe 581 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: less flashy as maize or corn, I feel, and I 582 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: feel like that's even the case today. You know, it's 583 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: Children of the Corn by Stephen King, not children of 584 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: the beans. Um Like maze is maybe just a little sexier, 585 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: uh than beans. But the beans are vitally important too, 586 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: and so they get looped into some of these myths 587 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: as well. Well. I mean this goes back to something 588 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: that I was talking about when I read that section 589 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: from ken Albola earlier about how I think he was 590 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: talking about some of the domestication of lentils in particular. 591 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: But you know, he talks about how together the grains 592 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: and the and the beans form a nutritional package that 593 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: supplies things that the other doesn't have and it doesn't 594 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: have or doesn't have in the same abundance. So the 595 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: example here was that combining starches and legumes, where the 596 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: amino acids that are not in the lentils are supplied 597 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: by the grains, but the lycene that's missing from the 598 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: grains is supplied by the legumes and that when you 599 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: have these different crops coming together to form a sort 600 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: of like diet package, they fill the gaps of the other. Yeah. Yeah, 601 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: so you need them both even if one is if 602 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: one takes on slightly more sacred connotations and the myth 603 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: making Now, this myth in particular was recorded in Legends 604 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: of the Suns, and this was found in the fifteen 605 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: fifty eight codex Chimo Popoca, and this was written in 606 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: the novel language. So in this myth, I'm gonna I'm 607 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: gonna mostly just summarizing here. So humans have been created 608 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm not entirely sure from the context 609 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: if if if like a lot or most of the 610 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: humans are actual infants in this scenario, But the gods 611 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: are unsure what the humans are going to eat, Like, okay, 612 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: the humans exist now, but they have to eat something. 613 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: So the gods go out in search. The Aztect gods 614 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: go out in search of things that humans can consume. 615 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: And during his own search, while we have a familiar 616 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: character here, we have Quetzal Codal, the plume serpent god 617 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: that we've discussed on previous episodes. Um he's involved in 618 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: the search. He goes out looking for sustenance for the 619 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 1: new humans, and he comes across a red ant carrying 620 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: a single grain of maize, and he realizes, well, this 621 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: might be the very grain that humans need in order 622 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: to survive. So the plumes serpent God sweeps, you know, 623 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: sweeps down from from the sky and he he just 624 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: starts talking to the aunt and he says, hey, that's 625 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: that's some wonderful, wonderful foods you got there on your back. 626 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: Can you tell me where you got it? And the 627 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: Aunt says no, which I which I love Aunt defiance, 628 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: but Quetzalcotal is insistent. So the Aunt finally reveals the 629 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: source of this and many other precious grains, including beans, 630 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: and it's the interior vault of Mount Tona Cateptl, the 631 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: Mountain of Sustenance. So Quetzalcota is impressed by this, transforms 632 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: his own body into that of a black ant and 633 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: he infiltrates the Mountain of Sustenance, and indeed he finds 634 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: it just feel it's like this hollowed out vault and 635 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,959 Speaker 1: it's just filled with seeds and grains. Uh, there's maze there, 636 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: there beings um. So he steals some of the maze 637 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: brings it back, and the other gods they take the maze, 638 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: they chew it up, and then they feed it to 639 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: these human infants to make them strong. So already I 640 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that instead of some demigod or hero 641 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: stealing a secret resource from the gods and bringing it 642 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: to humanity, we instead having we we seem to have 643 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 1: something more like a god stealing a secret resource from 644 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: nature itself, from this treasure trove hidden within the mountain. 645 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: It almost it almost makes me wonder if this, uh, 646 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: this in some way inspired the Hobbit. Well, yeah, it 647 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: I when you think of of of mountain depths filled 648 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: with riches, you do kind of think of the dwarfs. 649 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: But I also wonder if it, you know, if it 650 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: is also ultimately telling about trends and Mesoamerican um religion 651 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,959 Speaker 1: and considerations of the natural environment. You know that that 652 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: that that that ultimately that nature sort of stands apart 653 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: from the gods to a certain extent. Oh, that's interesting. 654 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: So you're saying, like, not identifying the gods with nature. 655 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: The gods are not the forces of nature, but another 656 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: thing like humanity that sort of must wrestle with the 657 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: forces of nature. Maybe in some ways to a certain degree. 658 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: That though, on the other hand, you do have gods 659 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: that are very much associated with aspects of nature as 660 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: well in these systems, so uh, you know, I wouldn't 661 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: say it's a clear cut division. So anyway, quetzal Total 662 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: took on the form of an aunt brought out like 663 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: a few pieces of corn to help feed humanity. But 664 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: clearly this is not going to hold up in the 665 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: long run. So what they need to do is they 666 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: need to bring the mountain of sustenance to the humans. 667 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: So Quetzalcode slings a rope around the mountain and tries 668 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: to drag it to the human nursery camp, but it's 669 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: too big because it's a mountain. Another plan is needed, 670 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: so they decided to bring in a little a little 671 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: counseling on this, and they turned to Oxomoco and sit Bactonal. 672 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: This is the first human couple and the goddess of 673 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: night and the god of astrology and calendars, though I 674 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: think both of them are considered gods of astrology and calendars. Okay, 675 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: so that sounds like that they would have some wisdom 676 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: or maybe predictive power. Yeah. Yeah, And so these two 677 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: individuals divine that they must turn to another god for 678 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: help to help them plunder the riches of the mountain. 679 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 1: The diseased god and future sun deity non Hudson, whose 680 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: whose name apparently means full of sores. That's a good 681 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: god name. This is funny that we were just talking 682 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: about Nerkele earlier with that sort of disease god. Yeah. Well, 683 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: um it's it's slightly different. I think that this god 684 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: is not necessarily a manifestation of disease, but is he 685 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: He himself is diseased and then is faded to become 686 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: a sun deity. But but yeah, again we see this 687 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: kind of element of plague and disease, if we it's 688 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: tempting to want to compare that to this this history 689 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: of of mold World and the and the rise of 690 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: the bean and the rat. So anyway, um U Nana 691 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: Hudson moves in and with the aid of blue, white, 692 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: yellow and red play locks the directional gods of the storms, 693 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: um Nana Hudson breaks open the Mountain of Sustenance. The 694 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: grains spill out, and then the tide locks. They gather 695 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: up the maze, the beans, other culinary treasures from the 696 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: depths of the mountain and they dispense them to the people. Oh, 697 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: you know, I love this for multiple reasons. I mean, 698 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: this is just a great story, but also there's a 699 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: certain kind of plausibility to it that uh that that 700 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: you know is it's not just the sort of myth 701 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: logic of breaking open a mountain full that's a corny 702 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: copy of food that can then feed everyone. I mean, 703 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,839 Speaker 1: as we've talked about again with like grains and beans, 704 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: a really wonderful thing about these types of foods is 705 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: that they can be stored and transported in dried form, 706 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: unlike a lot of other foods. And because of this 707 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: quality that they can be stored and transported dry with 708 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: their nutritional content intact in order to be resurrected later 709 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: through cooking. Uh, they they have so much, so much 710 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: sort of like versatility as a civilization founding food source 711 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: than a lot of other types of food would have 712 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: foods that generally need to be uh preserved in some 713 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: way specially or kept fresh or something like that. But 714 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: also because of this, like they remind me more of 715 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,439 Speaker 1: the physical measures that you would see in other types 716 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: of stories where there's a mountain full of gold coins, 717 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: or something, and here it's like you can have dried grains, 718 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: literal beans or grains. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, like this is 719 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: the true, the true larger worth rating here. Um. I 720 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: also love the idea of the calendar gods being involved 721 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: in in cracking it open, because ultimately, like being able 722 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: to being people of the calendar aids you in the 723 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: domestication of plants and in the management of your crops 724 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: and your ability to you know, to know wind to plant, 725 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: wind to harvest, wind, seal away and then when to 726 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: uh you know, bring it back and plant once more. 727 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: That is interesting. I didn't make that connection. Yeah, okay, well, 728 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,720 Speaker 1: I think maybe we're gonna have to call part one there. 729 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: But we've got so much more interesting stuff to talk about. 730 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: Next time. We're going to talk about beans and souls, 731 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: ancient religious beliefs, about beans from other parts of the world. 732 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about soybeans, which yes they're also beans. 733 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: Uh it's it's going to be the bee's knees. So 734 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 1: join us again next time. That's right. In the meantime, 735 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: if you would like to check out other episodes of 736 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your mind, maybe some of our past 737 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: treatments of of food related topics like tomatoes for example. Uh, 738 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: you can find all of those in the Stuff to 739 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind podcast feed. You'll find that wherever you 740 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. We have our our core science episodes 741 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We have artifact episodes on Wednesday's 742 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: listener Mail on Mondays, and on Fridays we do uh 743 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema, which is uh, not so sciency and 744 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: more about just us geeking out over some some weird 745 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 1: movie from the past. Huge thanks as always to our 746 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like 747 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us with feedback on this 748 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 749 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 750 00:42:49,920 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff 751 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. 752 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, this is the 753 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listening 754 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.