WEBVTT - Is the middle class going extinct? 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.360 From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:08.000 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:16.239 learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.040 welcome back. My name is Matt and I am Ben, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.160 and this is stuff they don't want you to know. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.840 And today, Ben, we're tackling a topic that's gonna hit 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.920 home with you right away. And I can tell I know, 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.400 how can you tell me personally? Or everybody out there 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.840 listening with us, everybody listening, this is something we can 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.080 all identify with, well, not all of us, but we've 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.479 probably heard about it. Perhaps are robotic listeners who loved, 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.640 uh love that episode, by the way, perhaps they can't 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:47.159 identify with it now. Matt, I have to say that 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.040 a lot of people before we get started, a lot 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.279 of people don't know that you have some amazing voices 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.160 under your belt. Yes, in your throat. You get the 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.440 gist of what I'm saying. Yes, they exist mostly inside 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.080 my throat. Some of them are in my head. Um Ever, 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.920 every once in a while they coincide. So we did, uh, 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.640 we did the opening for this episode a couple of 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:14.480 times today because Matt, you were doing brilliant public radio 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.240 voice that sounds really good, and I was I was 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:23.600 just messing up in ira glass impression. So that's exactly 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.760 what it was. I was trying to picture what it was. 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.960 N Well, if it's a good impression, then you just know. Well, look, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.880 I haven't been listening to as much this American life 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.759 as I probably should be. Well, we're big fans, but 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.000 we also want to tell you this, listeners, just so 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:42.240 that you know that maybe you can write to Matt 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.440 asking him to do some voices and uh maybe maybe 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.560 he will because I can't persuade you did do them. No, 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.000 you would be hard pressed to persuade me to do this. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.320 The voices are usually things I do I don't know, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:00.000 in the in the shower, in theater class in ninth grade, 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.680 in our office after six Yeah, that that's when they 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.120 really come. That's when they kick in. Yeah. I feel 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.240 like I can hear the voices in your head then too. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:13.520 Uh So. One thing that I always think about when 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.840 I hear the phrase middle class, right, is I think 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.600 about the what we call in the United States, the 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:27.040 American dream. Yeah, man, I think about suburbia, two point 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:32.040 five kids, maybe a dog, sometimes cats. In my case, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.960 it was cats. Okay, yeah, probably own a car, take 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.880 a vacation once in a while, at least making payments 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.080 on a car. Right, Yeah, What the heck is the 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.880 middle class? So many people in the West talked about it, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.560 and there's always this big concern. You know, every every 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.600 few years, Uh, some pundit will come out on your 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.240 local radio or television say, the middle class is disappearing. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.240 What does that mean? What does that mean? Well, let's 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.480 define our terms first of all, as we like to 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:06.480 do here. Well, the middle class is a financial label 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.359 above most other things, but it's also it kind of 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:16.280 talks about a lifestyle or refers to a lifestyle about 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:21.040 what a family of a family unit can afford. We're 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:25.320 again we're talking about home cars and you know, to 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:31.200 some extent, education and also even the ability to take vacations. Uh, 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:35.800 there are like budgeting and saving. It encompasses a lot 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.920 of different things, a little bit like investings. So what then, 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:44.000 it's not just physical goods the ability to buy physical 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:49.040 goods like what's that eighties song? Uh? Material World? Yeah, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.320 do you want me to go into it? How did 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.320 it go? I don't know that I can legally in 0:03:54.320 --> 0:04:01.040 this format, But it's Madonna and I'm yes, I'm checking. Um, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.560 I'm throwing aside. I hear with our super producer Noel 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.960 Brown on the ones and twos because you guys, Matt 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.160 and Noel no uh darn near everything about music. They 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.560 know a lot of stuff, which is dabble. We dabb 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.600 you guys dabble for sure, which is why every so 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.560 often you'll hear some uh some amazing sounds on our 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:27.599 audio podcast, our video podcast. But I digressed so hard. Yes, 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.240 So it's not just that this households could buy material goods. 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.919 It's that there is this lifestyle. Um. Maybe they don't 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:42.320 have two homes and travel to Florida every winter or something, 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.080 but they do probably have a summer vacation when the 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.159 kids out of school, yes exactly, and things like that. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:54.359 So the further we drill down into this definition of 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.360 what a middle class is, uh, the more that we 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.320 find there is not necess fairly one size fits all 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:06.080 rule because what means middle class depends on the country 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.800 in which you live, absolutely, and as we live in 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:14.560 the US, we're going to be focusing primarily on that. Um. 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:19.039 So so let's look at the money factor first of all. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:25.679 So the average income in the United States was fifty 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.080 one thousand and seventeen dollars in two thousand and twelve. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:35.640 So that's just the the um then is that mean? 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.480 I guess it must be the average the middle number. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.680 So counting all the people who made negligible and counting 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.760 all the people who made a lot, we end up 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.920 with a alarmingly deceptive number because you can't take an 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.240 average of that many people and that many uh in 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:59.159 that many environments, in different socioeconomic circumstances and expect it 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:04.960 to be very helpful. So, and there are two things 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.640 about that numbers that. First of all, it's pretty high. Yeah, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.200 but it's not the highest. It's not like cutter or something, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:15.719 right exactly, but it is globally pretty high. So let's 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.920 look at another place spend. Let's say the Democratic Republic 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.960 of Congo. The average income there is two hundred and 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:29.160 thirty six dollars. Wow. We should note, of course as well, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.960 that that is one of the poorest countries in the 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:36.320 world by this metric. But it's weird, right, because they 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.680 also have a wealth of resources and suffer from what 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:45.440 is often called an international politics the resource curse. The 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:50.640 resource curse which is no, that's okay. That is just 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.680 another show and we will have to cover that again. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.120 I think we mentioned that before. And another talking about 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.440 international banking we mentioned in resource extraction. You can check 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.640 out some of our We had an outdated video now, 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.480 but it still holds up pretty well called is China 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.760 Colonizing Africa? Which I would recommend to anybody who's interested 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:18.480 in stories of resource extraction or establishing slash fighting hedgemoney. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.080 And if you don't want to look at our videos, 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.480 then just look up the current president of Bolivia so 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.239 you know how he's working with us. Uh. And remember 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.640 that we said Bolivia because that that will be interesting later. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.160 So there's a standard. If we were to take a 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:37.240 standard definition from like a financial website, we would say, uh, 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.640 we will find a couple of different numbers. One that's 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.200 commonly found is that twenty five thousand to a hundred 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.520 thousand dollars of income a year is what most people 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.840 would consider a middle class income. Uh. This accounts for 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.960 a wide cost of living differential. So you know, it 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.120 costs more to live in New York City than it 0:07:54.160 --> 0:08:00.000 does in um Fargo or Baring Forks. And so any 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.280 one who lives in San Francisco or New York will 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:08.160 tell you that twenty five thousand dollars a year is dirt, poor, dirty, poor, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.680 um nothing. And that's because, uh, in that city, you 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:18.400 can't you can't make a long con you can't grow old, 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.440 support of family and retire and have a place to 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.200 sleep at night, right, right, dollars a year, I mean 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.840 you couldn't it. We'd be you'd be really hard pressed 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.960 to find a place to live. Yeah. Now there are 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:38.000 subsidies for fure and for residents, right, but this and 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.640 you know, of course we're not in any way detigrating 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.360 anybody who makes twenty five dollars and lives in a 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:49.760 very expensive city. Absolutely not. It's just the reality of living, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.840 you know, cost of living in sety it's very different. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.160 Like Atlanta, where we are based, has one of the 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.800 lowest costs of living for a city its size, and 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:05.319 only ever becomes apparent to me when I'm in another city. Yeah, 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:08.320 all right, So what we found is that this means 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:13.960 essentially there's no universally recognized definition of middle class, but 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.840 there is something different about the socioeconomic makeup of Western 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:22.400 countries over the last few decades. In many countries. The 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:27.800 Western middle class, however vaguely defined, isn't prospering at least 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.360 in the way that it once was back when we 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:36.880 had an economic boom with construction and industrialization in the US, 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:43.760 when we were making cars. Let's says, yeah, that's true. 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.680 There is a c change that is troubling to people, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.240 and there's this it. We can't make any bones about it. 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.640 This is not a conspiracy theory, no matter how often 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.679 it may be presented. Is one. Uh, this is not 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:02.440 a It is true and hard numbers that inequality in 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:06.000 the United States is rising in some areas more than 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:10.640 other areas. So what does this mean for me? Would 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.280 be most people's question, right exactly, from the Koke Brothers 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:19.320 to uh, somebody making twenty one dollars and living just 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.840 outside of New York, the question would always be what 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:26.280 does this mean for me? Very different answers and exactly 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.240 so it First of all, it means a lot of 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.360 different things depending on where you are. Like we said 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.640 at the top, in developing, in emerging markets, we're actually 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.160 seeing a rise or in emerging middle class. So it's 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.280 not so much that the global middle class is dying 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.080 as it is that the middle class. What it means 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.240 b middle class is moving. Yeah, isn't that a weird idea. 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:54.000 It's just that that type of emerging wealth has just transferred, 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.000 it's just took a trip across the world other other 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.880 different places. That sort of lifestyle is become an increasing 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:04.840 popular in countries where it wasn't once upon a time. Exactly. So, 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:09.480 then we also see that rising inequality has dangerous effects 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:13.520 on the existing UH middle class of these of these 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.920 different countries. In October of two thousand fourteen, Interestingly enough, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:22.280 the United Kingdom's wealthiest ten percent controlled fifty four point 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.520 one percent of the country's total wealth UM. If we 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.920 if we look at the math of that, you know, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.839 it can be a deceptive thing. A lot of these 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.800 statistics can sound scary, and some of them were constructed 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.240 not by us, but constructed or framed to sound frightening. 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.719 We know that inequality is on the rise in the 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.520 United Kingdom, it's on the rise in UH the United States. 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.160 Maybe not for the same reasons, but there have been 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.280 some pretty smart people making some pretty good studies about 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.680 this right. The authors of the new study, Emmanuel Says 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.880 and Gabriel Zokman, highlight that the wealth inequality was high 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.480 in the beginning of the twentieth century, decreased steadily from 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.479 nineteen twenty nine to nineteen seventy eight, but was continuously 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.520 increased ever since then. Moreover, the increase in wealth inequality 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.439 is almost completely due to the increase in the top 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.000 point one percent wealth share from seven percent in nineteen 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.280 seventy nine to two percent in two thousand twelve, nearly 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.440 as high as in nineteen twenty nine. The study also 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.200 showed that the wealth share of the bottom wealth edged 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.320 up until the mid nineteen eighties and has been declining 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:40.880 steadily ever since. And today, Uh, huge majority of Americans 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.920 acknowledge the growing gap between the rich and the poor, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.280 and a lot of people say, hey, I think that 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.240 is going to be a problem if it isn't already. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:55.120 But there's little, uh, there's little agreement on the causes 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.199 of this rise in inequality or how to address sit. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.319 You know what I mean, sure, Ben, So that question 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.480 is hugely complex, and you'll hear people like Russell Brand 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.720 talking about it on talk shows, even wrote a book 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.160 about it recently, UM and lots of other people just 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.920 trying to figure out a way to help stop this 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.000 inequality from increasing. And then there are people who say 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.959 that it's part of the system, so it should exist 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.200 in some way in a capitalist society sort of inherently 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.360 demands inequality. And then on the far side you have 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.599 people on the far far other side, you might have 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:36.719 people who say, uh, something like iron Rand was right 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.480 with her opinion and I do mean opinion about objectivism. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.120 And then you have people on the other end of 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.559 the spectrum who will say, you know, why do we 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.000 need to have any sort of system. Let's just let 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.760 people do what they want because people are inherently good. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.160 What's the worst that could happen? Right, Yeah, and then 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.520 we'll all be equal. Uh. However, we have some uh 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:06.920 compelling physiological evidence that human beings are not capable of 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.960 considering the rest of the human race as a peer, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.679 as a as a group of people. We crap out 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.960 around a hundred and fifty. That's all our brain can 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:25.960 uh close or friends brain stuff on that. Yeah, Dunbar's number. Yeah, um, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.440 And now we can go ahead. We set the stage 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.560 right the extinction of middle class, the definitions, uh, the 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:38.200 exploration and some of the assumptions, and now it's almost 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.600 time for the really crazy stuff. But first the word 0:14:42.640 --> 0:15:03.720 from our sponsor. You know, usually we have our sponsor, 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.640 Illumination Global Unlimited coming in. Yeah, but they're not here 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.800 this week. I'm not sure. Maybe they'll come back sometime. Yeah. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.160 It all depends really if the stars are in the 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.800 right positions. And sure there are a lot of factors 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:21.080 that Illumination Global Unlimited takes into account. Yeah. Um, and oh, 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:23.160 by the way, I guess we should say that for 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.320 anybody who hasn't checked out our episodes, Uh, be sure 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.440 to um put like a sheet over your TVs or 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.480 your mirrors if you're listening to or using a lot 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:37.200 of Illumination Global products. But anyway, just little ps a there. Uh, 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.400 here's the crazy stuff. Here's where it gets crazy. I 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.800 love it. Is there an oligarchy that is developed in 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.480 the United States? That's the big question. We all know 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.040 what an oligarchy is. It's a small group of interest 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.760 or whatever running a larger group. Sure, so do you 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:00.960 want my personal answer or my objective research answer. Uh, 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:07.240 let's see first the objective research and then your personal take. Well, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.920 whether or not this has developed inside the United States 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.160 is a matter of debate. There are a lot of 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:20.040 different opinions. But there's something even more surprising about this subject. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.200 When you look at the research across the world. The 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:29.040 globe as a whole, inequality has actually decreased, at least 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.800 for a time leading up to the recent economic disaster, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.320 so to two thousand seven, and then some of the 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.040 other stuff that's been going on. So the things we're 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.480 getting better for a little while. But you have to 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.920 be really careful when you look at the stats. All Right, 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.520 we've got a great report via the Guardian the richest 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:49.280 one percent of the world's population are getting wealthier, if 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.400 not healthier, which almost said owning more than forty eight 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:56.160 percent of global wealth. This was according to the Credit 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:01.000 Suits Global Wealth Report, which you can find online. And uh, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.320 here we go, though, when we say the richest one 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.920 percent of the entire world, that's such a bigger number 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:12.400 in both directions. So what what What are the numbers meant? Well, 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.679 a person only needs three thousand, six hundred and fifty 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.600 dollars including the value or equity in your home to 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.240 be among the wealthiest half of the world citizens. Wow, okay, 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.080 and then uh, to be a member of the top 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.880 ten percent of global wealthholders, you need more than seventies 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:36.359 seven thousand dollars. And that isn't a no like how 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.760 much money you make every year. That's how much worthy exactly, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.880 there's something. And then, uh, last, but not least, can 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.840 we get a drum roll, No, you need seven hundred 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.159 and nine thousand dollars to belong in the top one percent. Now, 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.080 that's smaller. That's a smaller amount than I thought. But 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.280 I guess that's because it's a much bigger one percent. Sure, 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.800 So that is a lot more money than this guy 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.440 will ever see in his lifetime. Um, but you know 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:13.040 it's something to shoot for. Ben Uh. The American dream 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.280 as where we started in the beginning, So let's go 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.600 straight to some of the more conspiratorial stuff. One thing 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:22.960 that I thought was interesting that comes to us from 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:29.600 UH political spheres, right, is the idea that concerns over 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.440 inequality are some sort of noise or propaganda made by 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:40.040 socialist and communists seeking to overthrow capitalism. So I guess 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.480 the argument there would be that the nature of inequality 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.119 itself is being vilified and that it's not bad for 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.399 a few people to control as much wealth. Yeah, in 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.680 in the eyes of someone UH talking about this, I 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.200 would say they see it as more villainizing the rich, 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.360 and at least that in my head, that's what I see. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.080 And I would you know, I would argue that perhaps 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.359 those arguments come from the wealthy a lot of the times, right, 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.560 and that would that would make sense because opponents of 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.200 that argument would say that there is a group of 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:24.200 wealthy elites actively working to disempower the populations of various countries, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.760 which is not I'm it's gonna I'm gonna be honest. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.439 It's totally been proven that that's happened in the past. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.600 We know that that has happened in the past, um, 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:39.480 during times of imperialism or colonialism. And no, I'm not 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:44.639 just talking about European expansions. I'm talking about the history 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.480 of tribute states, the history of vassals and peasants and 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:54.719 servants and lifelong slavery, which still exists. I think Mauritaniah 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:00.359 still has quite a large slave population. Yeah. And also 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.199 if you look at the power of money in politics now, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.399 especially in the US, um, you need a certain amount 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.600 of money to make any kind of waves in the 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.720 political sphere here, and you know, if you're increasing that 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.480 that wealth gap, then perhaps that's one of the goals. 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.479 I don't know. I'm just a guy man. Yeah, me too. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.879 There's also there was all you remember. This might be 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.679 a little bit before some of our listeners time, uh, 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.040 but you remember growing up and hearing about the the 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:35.280 idea of trickle down economics, um, which I I still 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.200 probably have a child's understanding of that, because I didn't 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:40.879 really get it when I was a kid, and I 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:42.800 haven't looked into it too much. But I just want 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.879 to present these counter arguments. Oh sure, yeah, trickle down economics. 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.960 So the idea that when the ultra wealthy have a 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.359 lot of money, they spend a lot of money, and 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.480 then it trickles down throughout the economy because they're spending 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.440 money here and there and here and there, yase everybody else. 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.200 That's my understand Inherently, I don't understand how that would work, 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.800 because that is the dispersion of wealth, not the accumulation 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.119 of wealth. And also because of Swiss bank accounts and 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:16.360 or Australian incorporation, wouldn't you be more likely to try 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.080 to save money? I don't know, I I don't know. 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.119 But there's another point here, and this is the one 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.920 that I think has the most sand that the relationships 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.399 between governments and businesses are empowering wealthy actors, and by 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.040 that we mean companies as well as individuals at the 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.600 expense of the poor. Yeah, and again look at the 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:40.680 representation and governments where especially in places where money makes 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.560 the politician. Right. Yeah, So we we've talked about this, 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.439 you and I extensively when we've done any a series 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:51.520 on financial shenanigans. There's this, there's this argument. A lot 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.520 of people here in the States are very cynical about 0:21:55.560 --> 0:22:00.680 the relationship between financial institutions and the regulatory bodies set 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:05.680 to watch those financial institutions. I can't air quote hard 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:11.000 enough UH on regulatory or watch. But but there and 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.480 you know, the idea, there is something that we lampooned 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:19.639 in an earlier podcast that these UH groups can't really 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.920 watch each other or have the kind of authoritative relationship 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:25.840 they need to have because they end up work the 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.960 individuals end up working for the same companies. But to 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:33.440 be fair, the counter argument is that this field is 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:38.719 so rarefied and complex that they're the only people qualified 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:40.680 to work in it. Sure, it makes my eyes my 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:43.800 eyes that I saw that I saw that they're rolling 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:47.639 hard they're still rolling. Uh So, without me personally commenting 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.480 on it, I just want to present that argument and 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:56.280 counter argument. It's true though, that governments have in the 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:58.720 eyes of the public, not just in the United States 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:02.320 but also in the United them uh that governments have 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:08.200 been seen as not stopping crimes by large financial institutions, 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:13.160 and typically that scene as further proof that the middle 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:18.359 class is somehow being squeezed out of a judicial process, 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.719 a legislative process, things like that. Um. But another thing 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.240 that you and I have run into quite often is 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.680 that the laws. It's it's very important to figure out 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.440 who gets to write laws, you know what I mean. 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:36.760 And the concerns that we have read about with the 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:41.160 idea of a disappearing middle class is that, first, it's 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.200 so very vaguely defined in the United States. If you 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.320 ask people to pull the majority of people in the 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.400 United States would say that they are the middle class. Um. 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:55.680 And politicians have wildly differing ideas about this. But are 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:59.879 these people being shut out of legislation? That's a question, right, 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:03.159 It's a really good question, and I think it should 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:07.000 be addressed by people who know more than us, right, 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.000 which might be you listeners. Hopefully Uh, so we wanted 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:14.399 to know if the if you think that the middle 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:17.560 class is disappearing, And let's keep in mind also that 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.600 over the great span of human existence, the middle class 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:24.639 is a very recent phenomena. Yeah, sure, absolutely, Um. And 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:31.080 also here's another question. Is it necessary that inequality exists 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:36.200 for let's save the entire system to run correctly. That's yeah, 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:39.160 that's a really good question. Is there a conscious drive 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:43.119 by someone or some group to accelerate inequality? Then I 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:46.959 was reading this thing right before we came in here. Um, 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:51.240 you can look this up. It was about restaurants in 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:54.640 the that aim for the middle class that our middle 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:58.840 of the road like, and it mentioned specifically places like 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:05.920 Red Lobster Um out Back. Yeah, and just talking about 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:10.040 how those being in owning a restaurant in that level 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:15.880 right now is really dangerous because restaurants are starting to shift. Um, 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:18.919 at least the ones that are prospering right now are 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:23.320 either the really ritzy, high priced places with locally sourced 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:26.520 food that's just prepared by you know, chef genius in 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:29.320 the back, and then to the fast food this is 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:32.680 as cheap as it can possibly get. And the people 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:35.359 in the middle are finding that they're just losing money 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:41.360 week after week. So if middle class families aren't disappearing, 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.760 middle class restaurants are, well, people aren't going out. The 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:49.760 idea is that the people who find themselves and identify 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:53.159 in the middle class are trying to save every bit 0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:56.119 of money that they possibly can because they're feeling squeeze, 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:59.960 you know, perhaps not getting that small raise for cost 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:03.760 living every year, or not getting just what all the 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:08.159 different reason, medical emergency, anything that could pop up. So 0:26:08.280 --> 0:26:10.760 I think that's really interesting to me, and it made 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:14.960