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Speaker 1: What's that at my bed's I'm pretty sure it's dead.

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Speaker 1: It's coming this way. Wait a minute, I said.

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Speaker 2: Hira's jass.

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Speaker 1: Hey boo, it's me Roz. I love this conversation that

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Speaker 1: I get to share with you all. Today I got

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Speaker 1: to talk to Michelle Balanje and I have been a

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Speaker 1: fan of Michelle's for a while. She was on the

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Speaker 1: TV show Paranormal State and one of my absolute favorites

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Speaker 1: that I always talk about Portals to Hell, which you

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Speaker 1: can watch on the Travel Channel or Discovery Plus app.

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Speaker 1: And I just think that this person is so otherworldly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she's a psychic first of all, so with

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Speaker 1: the psychic news, the things that she does on TV,

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Speaker 1: which I absolutely choose to believe is real. I mean

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Speaker 1: you've heard my conversations with Katrina Wideman and Jack Osborne,

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Speaker 1: who also work on that show. I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: it's real. It's real. Anyway, what she does is just

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Speaker 1: so cool. And so Michelle is also a demon and

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Speaker 1: a cult expert as well. She wrote the Dictionary of

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Speaker 1: Demons and tons and tons of books, and we talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about that in this conversation. But so

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Speaker 1: what we decided to do this week is We're going

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Speaker 1: to do two parts of this conversation. This week's episode

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Speaker 1: is going to be focused on Michelle's psychic abilities, and

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Speaker 1: then next week we're gonna be talking about demons and

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Speaker 1: it's booky. But I left the conversation feeling like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I need to be terrified of demons.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna listen to what Michelle has to say.

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Speaker 1: But of course, like always, like always with this show,

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Speaker 1: please just you know, make your own decisions on things.

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Speaker 1: But also it's it's great to hear from experts and

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Speaker 1: to hear their insights, and that's sort of how my beliefs,

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Speaker 1: you know. I keep my beliefs obviously open and they

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Speaker 1: shift all the time. But it's just hearing these conversations

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Speaker 1: with demonologists and psychics and experts and exorcists and all

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Speaker 1: of these people. They definitely help me to have a

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Speaker 1: very expansive idea of what could be possible. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I just I personally hear someone like Michelle

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Speaker 1: talk and I go, yeah, that sounds about right. But

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Speaker 1: also Michelle, as you'll hear in this conversation, is somebody

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Speaker 1: that is also a paranormal investigator on top of having

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Speaker 1: all of these different psychic abilities. So Michelle has that

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Speaker 1: open minded investigator brain as well, which I really appreciate.

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Speaker 1: So before we get to that conversation, I thought I

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Speaker 1: would read an email that came to me from a

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Speaker 1: listener and that also reminds me I would love to

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Speaker 1: do a listener episode very very soon, So please get

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Speaker 1: me your listener episode submissions by emailing me at ghosted

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Speaker 1: by Roz at gmail dot com with the subject line

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Speaker 1: listener episode and hopefully we can work that out soon.

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Speaker 1: This story came from Jordan, and Jordan is from my

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Speaker 1: hometown of Grand Rapids, Michigan. Jordan writes, my best friend

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Speaker 1: and I had a tradition dating back to college where

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Speaker 1: we would drink cheap beer and watch bad movies every

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Speaker 1: Thursday night. Our ironic alcohol of choice was forties of

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Speaker 1: King Cobra. Dumb, but it's important, Okay. He passed away

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Speaker 1: about ten years ago when he was hit by a

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Speaker 1: car while walking home, and his death hit me really hard,

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Speaker 1: as my wife, fiance at the time, and I were

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Speaker 1: the last people he knew to see him alive. Ooh,

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Speaker 1: that's rough. Two weeks after he passed Thursday rolled around

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't think of anything else to do but

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Speaker 1: to pour one out for him. So I drove to

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Speaker 1: my local party store, which was empty except for the clerk,

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Speaker 1: and reached for our two dollars malt liquor of choice,

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Speaker 1: which PS. I've had conversations with people before, and not short.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm from the same neck of the woods

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Speaker 1: as you, and we call it a party store there.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of a party store is like what

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Speaker 1: you call a liquor store, basically essentially a liquor store

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Speaker 1: or I don't know what do they call it where

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Speaker 1: you live, let me know, okay, So went to the

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Speaker 1: liquor store party store situation. When I picked it up,

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Speaker 1: I saw that all the labels were completely different, and

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Speaker 1: I felt a hand on my shoulder and heard my

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Speaker 1: friend's voice in my ear clear as day, saying, I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to let you know that I'm okay. Of course,

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Speaker 1: there was no one there when I turned around, and

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Speaker 1: I promptly broke down crying in front of nobody but

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Speaker 1: God and the proprietor of Kentwood Liquor. When I got back,

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Speaker 1: still just beside myself with a combination of tears and

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Speaker 1: be mused laughter. I told my wife, who replied, of course,

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Speaker 1: that's how he'd come back and reassure you with a

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Speaker 1: loving eye roll. The story sounds silly to type, but

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Speaker 1: it was definitely him saying goodbye, and it's good to

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Speaker 1: know that silly, juvenile traditions can transcend even death itself.

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Speaker 1: Rip Kyle, thank you for sending me that. I always

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Speaker 1: love those kinds of stories of friends and loved ones

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Speaker 1: coming back and still having that sense of humor. I

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Speaker 1: mean that really keeps me gieing and not afraid of

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Speaker 1: death like I once was. The more I hear stories

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Speaker 1: like that of your sense of humor can still live on,

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Speaker 1: and I just think that's beautiful. So thank you. I

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Speaker 1: know it sounds silly to type, but it's you're telling

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Speaker 1: it to the right crowd of people we get to,

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Speaker 1: So thank you for sending me that. Okay, here is

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Speaker 1: the first part of this conversation with Michelle as we

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Speaker 1: talk about the psychic stuff, and of course, like always,

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Speaker 1: if you want a little bit more, go on over

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Speaker 1: to patreon dot com slash rosdres Flees. There's also a

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Speaker 1: link in the description of this episode and on my

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Speaker 1: second tier I have a couple of bonus clips. Now

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Speaker 1: this is a proper two parter, okay, Michelle, and I

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Speaker 1: will also give props to Michelle for this because it

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Speaker 1: was so sweet. Michelle gave me an hour and forty

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Speaker 1: minutes of her time. I mean, we really just kept

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Speaker 1: going with this and it was just so great and

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Speaker 1: it was I mean, we didn't cut anything out besides

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Speaker 1: the Patreon clips. I mean, it was just NonStop. I

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Speaker 1: loved at all. And so if you want to go

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Speaker 1: to Patreon, you can hear a couple more stories and

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Speaker 1: a little bit more of Michelle's abilities and we talk

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Speaker 1: about this being that she encountered in New Orleans, and

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Speaker 1: we talk a little bit about Portals to Hell and

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Speaker 1: some of the things that she does psychically on that show.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so check that out. And then of course

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Speaker 1: next week there will also be another bonus clip when

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Speaker 1: we do our little Demon episode. And it always helps

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Speaker 1: me out if you join Patreon, and I appreciate your support.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, here we go, partner one with Michelle Belja

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Speaker 1: on with the show. Oh my goodness, I am so excited.

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Speaker 1: We have got Michelle Balane here. Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am doing fantastic all things considered with and lockdown

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Speaker 2: and everything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what has this past year been like

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Speaker 1: for in a cult expert psychic slash energy workers slash

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Speaker 1: psychic vampire. I mean you do a million things. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what is how has your life been?

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Speaker 2: Sort of weird but also sort of exactly the same.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm not doing television stuff or appearing

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Speaker 2: for any conventions, I prefer to be home. So I'm,

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Speaker 2: you know, hanging out in my big old house in

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Speaker 2: Ohio with all of my books, doing research, reading, occasionally

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Speaker 2: screaming on the internet at things that I find stupid,

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Speaker 2: We're annoying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can really, But of all these things that

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Speaker 1: you do, like what do you do you relate to

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Speaker 1: one more? Or like how does how does that work

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Speaker 1: for you?

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Speaker 2: It's sort of all of a piece of, like I guess,

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Speaker 2: a broader identity. I'm clergy within pagan and energy workers circles,

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Speaker 2: and like that's part of it. I guess it just

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Speaker 2: is all part of my personal practice, my identity, my

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Speaker 2: relationship with energy, the work I do with spirits, the

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Speaker 2: psychic stuff, the research, like it's the research feeds into

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Speaker 2: understanding myself and my experience is better. My experiences help

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Speaker 2: me have stuff to help teach people better and kind

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Speaker 2: of go like, this is how this works for me.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if it will work this way for you,

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Speaker 2: but here's what I learned. And I guess if there's

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Speaker 2: one god. I'm terrible when people are like, well, what's

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Speaker 2: one word we can put on your log line? I'm

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Speaker 2: like a mystic teacher, right, professional weirdo.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I love about today's day and age,

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Speaker 1: is like there's just such this movement that I am

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Speaker 1: very much a part of of, just like one word

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Speaker 1: does not need to define anybody, you know, like we

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Speaker 1: there's so much nuance in this world and you can

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Speaker 1: be so many different things at once. I was just

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Speaker 1: curious with you, like there's just you do so many

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Speaker 1: things I like. And also great website, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you have a very comprehensive website with so many things

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Speaker 1: about you that that's why I'm like, you're one of

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Speaker 1: these people that's like both really easy to like interview,

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Speaker 1: but also there's just so much to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, it's really hard when people are like, could

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Speaker 2: you write a bio? Like where would you like me

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Speaker 2: to focus?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Well, let's talk about the psychic stuff, because

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Speaker 1: now I'm it's very well known that I am a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge fan of Portals to Hell. I love that TV

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Speaker 1: show so much. I have had Katrina on this show twice.

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Speaker 1: I've had Jack on the show, and with them you

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Speaker 1: have come up because I'm just blown away by what

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Speaker 1: you do on that show. And so I mean, I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: just you know, I guess the psychic origin story. How

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Speaker 1: did you find out you were psychic? How's that been

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Speaker 1: for you?

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Speaker 2: So? I grew up in a tiny little town here

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Speaker 2: in northeast Ohio called Hinkley, and Hinkley celebrates the return

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Speaker 2: of Turkey vultures every year on the IDEs of March

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Speaker 2: with pancakes and sausage. No shit, Okay, I gives you

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Speaker 2: an idea of like kind of like how rural small

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Speaker 2: town it is. But at the same time, I was

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Speaker 2: raised in a family where psychic stuff was pretty normal,

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Speaker 2: like it was okay to talk about Lots of people

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Speaker 2: had experiences. I would say that it was an environment

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Speaker 2: where we weren't encouraged to just swallow the beliefs without

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Speaker 2: thinking about them. My grandmother, her older sister, and her

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Speaker 2: younger brother were the ones who mainly raised me. My

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Speaker 2: grandmother's older sister was a social worker who had been

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Speaker 2: working to become a psychiatrist. So I got a lot

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Speaker 2: of early exposure to psychology and the idea of like

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Speaker 2: psychosomatism and how our perceptions can be misinterpreted as a

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Speaker 2: good counterbalance to the sort of Irish American lore about

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Speaker 2: the second sight, and you know, family abilities that I

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Speaker 2: got from my grandmother and such. And on top of that,

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Speaker 2: like I was just an early reader, and you know,

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Speaker 2: everybody has a different way they interface with learning, and

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Speaker 2: for me, it's a book first, Like I want to

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Speaker 2: read it in a book. I want to read every

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Speaker 2: single book on that topic, take a whole bunch of notes,

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Speaker 2: and then sit with it and go But what do

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Speaker 2: I think? Hmm? And I think that comes out with

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Speaker 2: a lot of my psychic stuff because I'm not only

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Speaker 2: an experiencer. I'm also I let myself dive into the

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Speaker 2: experience in the moment, and then I step back and

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Speaker 2: get as much objectivity as it is possible to have

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Speaker 2: over your own experiences and analyze it.

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Speaker 1: God, I love that, I'll be honest, I get nervous

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Speaker 1: talking to psychics sometimes on this podcast because a lot

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Speaker 1: of experiences I've had, they're very like, this is what

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Speaker 1: this is, this is how it's done. And I like

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Speaker 1: I like that open minded approach to analyzing, and I

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Speaker 1: like what you said about like this is what works

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Speaker 1: for me, you know. I like that. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: I mean I've been doing it for you know, nearly

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Speaker 2: fifty years now, pushing fifty, and there's no one right answer,

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Speaker 2: like I'm still learning how all of this works. One

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Speaker 2: of the things that I love about working on Portals

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Speaker 2: to Hell specifically is Katrina knows me from Paranormal State

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Speaker 2: days and kind of knows the very strict protocols I

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Speaker 2: hold myself to. And Jack is a very open mind experiencers,

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Speaker 2: so once he learned kind of like what my rules

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Speaker 2: were for doing stuff, he was all for it. Because

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Speaker 2: for me, as much as it's you know, yay, I'm

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Speaker 2: on TV and this is cool, it's I get to

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Speaker 2: go someplace that I've probably never heard of before, and

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Speaker 2: we make every effort to make sure that it's someplace

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard of before and just sort of get

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Speaker 2: dumped in and see what comes and then have these

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Speaker 2: other awesome people around me who can do the research

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Speaker 2: to see if I'm talking out on my butt or

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Speaker 2: if there's really something that I've done. So it's kind

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Speaker 2: of like this long, extended I won't call it a

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Speaker 2: laboratory experiment because there's no way to have laboratory protocols,

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Speaker 2: but it's as close to a personal experiment as I

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Speaker 2: can really delve into.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean, what you do is you for

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Speaker 1: anyone that hasn't seen that, which I imagine a lot

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Speaker 1: of people listening to this do watch that show because

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Speaker 1: it's like I talk about it all the time, But

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Speaker 1: so you you go into these spaces blindfolded. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: what is that? Where did that come from?

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Speaker 2: That actually came from an episode of Paranormal State, where

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Speaker 2: I think probably on the back end, it was one

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Speaker 2: of the producers just kind of going like, how do

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Speaker 2: we spice things up. We'll have Michelle Tip have blindfolds

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Speaker 2: for one episode. And because I am a very analytic

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Speaker 2: person and I kind of had that rational dialogue going

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Speaker 2: on in my head all the time of like is

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Speaker 2: this me reading the location? Is this reading people's body language?

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Speaker 2: Is this me like seeing a little boy who's the

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Speaker 2: blonde hair because I just saw a photo that looked

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Speaker 2: like that, you know, five rooms away. When we had

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Speaker 2: the option of the blindfold, it opened so much up

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Speaker 2: because I just I stopped second guessing and I just

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Speaker 2: spewed out whatever I picked up. And when I saw

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Speaker 2: that particular episode, one of the ones where that happened,

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Speaker 2: Like there's a point where like Ryan has me standing

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Speaker 2: in front of something and I'm describing what I'm saying

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Speaker 2: in front of and I think at some point, like

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Speaker 2: the folks who had had that like assumed that the

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Speaker 2: blindfold wasn't real, but it was the sleep mask that

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Speaker 2: I used, and trust me, like that was meant to

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Speaker 2: like block out all light and all everything because I'm

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Speaker 2: a light sleeper and I just I liked it so

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Speaker 2: much that I kept it and it's been a fantastic

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Speaker 2: addition to my practice with portals. I'm really lucky that

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Speaker 2: Katrina knew like why I used that so much, and

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Speaker 2: Jack was like sure, So, like they blindfolded me from

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Speaker 2: the time, like they stick me up in some hotel

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Speaker 2: and then they blindfold me as they picked me up.

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Speaker 2: They filmed that whole process. You know, somewhere there's video

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Speaker 2: of me talking about like getting blindfolded and what feels

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Speaker 2: like in the car, and you know, all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: And on a few occasions, in the most recent one,

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Speaker 2: like I've had images that were clear enough that I

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Speaker 2: needed to draw them, and they are so respectful of

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Speaker 2: those boundaries that, for I think it was the Paulding

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Speaker 2: jail one, they moved me into this van. They parked

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Speaker 2: it in a blind alley, so like if even if

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Speaker 2: I looked around the van, all I had were bricks

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Speaker 2: around me, so there was no chance so I could

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Speaker 2: kind of peek it up a little bit and actually

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Speaker 2: draw and not look like I was, you know, drawing

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Speaker 2: stick figures literally blindfolded, because nobody needed to see that.

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Speaker 2: It was bad enough as it was.

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Speaker 1: I have this idea of psychic abilities that maybe everyone

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Speaker 1: or a lot of people have these abilities, they're just

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Speaker 1: too caught up in that trying to rationalize. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think that there's truth to that?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. I would say that people who don't have

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Speaker 2: abilities are the exception, not the rule. And I mean

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Speaker 2: I won't rule out that there are some people who

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Speaker 2: basically need glasses for their third eye. To make a

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Speaker 2: kind of joke about it, it's not like we have

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Speaker 2: corrective lends for that. But there are some people who

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Speaker 2: just don't see to quite have the abilities quite in focus.

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Speaker 2: But the vast majority of folks do, and they I

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Speaker 2: actually believe that they are so natural to us, not

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Speaker 2: even paranormal or weird, that we don't realize when they're

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Speaker 2: influencing us when we make decisions based on them. Like

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Speaker 2: we talk in language about having a gut instinct, we

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Speaker 2: talk about like just sort of following a feeling, we

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Speaker 2: talk about intuition. Sometimes we meet people and we have

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Speaker 2: an immediate reaction to them, and if we stop to

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Speaker 2: deconstruct where that comes from, there's, in my opinion, always

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Speaker 2: some aspect that isn't going to simply come down to.

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Speaker 2: They reminded me of someone I didn't like before their

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Speaker 2: body language was different. Like there's our perceptions are all

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Speaker 2: of a piece, both the psychological cues we get from

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Speaker 2: the world around us, the physical cues, the things from

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Speaker 2: our five physical senses, and then this sort of constant

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Speaker 2: running dialogue of something else you can't always put your

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Speaker 2: finger on, but you are definitely picking up on and

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Speaker 2: reacting to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I identify as non binary, transfeminine, and I talk

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people that are also trans or

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Speaker 1: non binary or queer, and there seems to be I've

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Speaker 1: had this conversation, and I don't like to generalize with

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Speaker 1: any group of people, but I've had these conversations with

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Speaker 1: people like me in that way that we think that, like,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's no doubt we are these magical creatures. But

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Speaker 1: if we like, is there any truth to the fact

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Speaker 1: that people you know on that aren't cis gender or

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Speaker 1: hetero or have these abilities, I.

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Speaker 2: Think there's two things going on with that. If we

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Speaker 2: dig into world traditions and different cultures, there is a

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Speaker 2: very vibrant and belief system of folks who fall in between,

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Speaker 2: as kind of being called by their very identity, to

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Speaker 2: walk between, to be perceptive to reality in between the cracks,

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Speaker 2: to be outside of what is considered normal space, and

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Speaker 2: therefore have access to what is considered unusual, extraordinary space.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, I also think that those

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Speaker 2: of us who had to take the time to really

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Speaker 2: ask ourselves, who am I, regardless of what the world says,

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Speaker 2: how do I feel? How do I experience things? How

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Speaker 2: do I listen and accept that that opens us up

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Speaker 2: to all of the possibilities inside of who we are.

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Speaker 2: We have learned to listen to something even if the

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Speaker 2: world has told us that's not possible or that's not

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Speaker 2: our right. And I think for many of us that

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00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 2: extends to all of the other rich, fantastic and magical

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00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: things that we are.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yes, I think that too, that having an open

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Speaker 1: mind can open your mind to a lot of different things.

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Speaker 1: You know, That's what I think about sometimes with like

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Speaker 1: paranormal investigators and stuff. Just you know, you can't just

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Speaker 1: have your mind open to the idea of ghosts being real,

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Speaker 1: but then have a closed mind to other things in

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Speaker 1: this world being a reality, or you know, do you

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Speaker 1: get what I mean? Like there's I think sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: like I just think it's a good thing to keep

356
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Speaker 1: your mind open to any possibility, both supernatural or or not. No,

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Speaker 1: totally or is that dangerous?

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Speaker 2: No? No, I totally agree with you. And I think

359
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 2: we're starting to get closer to that. You know, fifteen

360
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Speaker 2: twenty years ago and even before you know, you had

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00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: which is witchcraft over and it's little corner, and you

362
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 2: had psychic people over in their little corner, and you

363
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: had the UFO people in their corner, and the Bigfoot people,

364
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 2: and like everybody was experiencing extraordinary stuff from their own framework,

365
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: and there's definitely crossover between all of these aspects of

366
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 2: paranormal and supernatural just just unusual things. But when we

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Speaker 2: put them in little labeled boxes and assume that those

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00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: boxes are anything other than the arbitrary walls that we've

369
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Speaker 2: built to just make it easier at first, we lose

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Speaker 2: the richness. And hellure is an interesting thing because they

371
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: really kind of they've started to dig into you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not just ghosts. What if there's a correlation between

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Speaker 2: ghost experiences in a place but also UFO experiences in

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Speaker 2: a place, and also you know reports of like ferries

375
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Speaker 2: or changelings are goblins, So let's let's investigate all of

376
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: it and see what people are talking about, like what's

377
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: behind the reports and the language.

378
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: Right, I know they're doing a lot of that at

379
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: Skinwalker Ranch as well, But yeah, I think that I

380
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: think that that goes along with like everything in life,

381
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: to be honest, Like I'm hoping that our culture is

382
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: getting to a place where we're not putting people in

383
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 1: these boxes and closing our minds off to all of

384
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: why we are so similar and why we are Our

385
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: differences are our beauties. Yes, it's what makes us so special.

386
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Speaker 2: We're in the middle of this fantastic, scary, alchemical moment

387
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: in time where we are deconstructing our labels and our

388
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: identities and our assumptions and analyzing, like going like what works?

389
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: What actually works? What is stuff that was simply handed

390
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: to us that we grabbed because we didn't have any

391
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: other choice, or we thought we didn't have any other choice.

392
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: What happens when we really exist in a truly global

393
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: worldview and everybody has a place and everybody has a

394
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: voice and they can express that how they wish.

395
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Speaker 1: You know, with your psychic abilities, I mean, do you

396
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: see into the future or you know, how does how

397
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: does it manifest for you? I mean I know about

398
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: the medium ship and the visions, and I mean how

399
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: you how many you know? I mean, why am I

400
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: trying to ask? I have a hard time asking. Quote,

401
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: I'm so in awe of you. I'm not even gonna

402
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: lie that. I'm like starstruck and like also taking in

403
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: so many things right now that you're saying. But you know,

404
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: as as a psychic and a medium, I mean, what

405
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: kind of abilities do you have. I feel like that's

406
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: a condescending question.

407
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 2: No, No, it's.

408
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: Coming from a place of have love and curiosity.

409
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: I don't find it condescending at all. It's a question

410
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: I get a lot because again, labels and words are

411
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: weird and complex things, right, and kind of the I

412
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: don't know the archetype that you see in media. Psychics

413
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: for telling the future or whatever. It's. Psychics are really

414
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 2: broad label and I think it covers a whole lot

415
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: of things. For me, If I had to identify my abilities,

416
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: it starts with my ability to pick up what I

417
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 2: identify is the energy of people. This is also how

418
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: my identity as a psychic is kind of you can't

419
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: pull it apart from my identity as a psychic vampire.

420
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: There's the energy that people have, and I pick up

421
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 2: the energy of the living first, their vitality, their emotions,

422
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 2: snippets of thoughts, what they leave behind in rooms where

423
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 2: they've been, what they leave on items that were important

424
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 2: to them. And my extension and spirits are also energy,

425
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: and so that's another layer that I pick up. But

426
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: I definitely not all the time, but also experienced things

427
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: in dreams and dream work. Have had a few kind

428
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: of startling dreams that foretold something that happened in the future,

429
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: some of which were just completely mundane, and a couple

430
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: of which were really unnerving and startling. Probably the biggest one,

431
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: and it was a lesson learned, was when I was

432
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: in seventh grade, I had a dream about the Space

433
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 2: Shuttle launch going horribly awry the next day. And there

434
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: were some very specific things. There was the class period

435
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: that it happened in, There were there was a bunch

436
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 2: of stuff about it. So suffice to say that seventh

437
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: grade me was sitting there about, you know, crapping myself

438
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 2: when the news came over the thing, because I'm like,

439
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: I dreamed that, like, and anybody who has even one

440
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 2: or two visions of the future has this moment of

441
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 2: like could I have done something? Should I have done something? Like?

442
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: Was I given this for a reason? Should I have

443
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: changed the course of history? Like what? Even? And I

444
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 2: went home and I talked to my grandmother about it,

445
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: and bless her heart, but like the first thing she

446
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: said was anybody can be psychic after the fact. And

447
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 2: while that was a little harsh in the moment as

448
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: we talked about it, it was what I learned was

449
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 2: if that happens again, write it down before the thing

450
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: you've foreseen happens one so you are better able to

451
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: recognize that this is actually something for telling the future

452
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: as opposed to just a random dream or you know,

453
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: a stress dream or whatever. But also so you've got

454
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: a record realistically, She's like, you're in seventh grade, who

455
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: would like if you called up NASA, Like like, really,

456
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: that wasn't going to change anything, like maybe, yeah, maybe

457
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: you got this just a bear witness to it, like

458
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: just except that sometimes these things happen.

459
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a difficult situation to be in. What

460
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: do you do with that knowledge? You know? And I imagine,

461
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: especially at seventh grade time is so sensitive of like

462
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't want to be the person that's going to go,

463
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: you know, saying to people that this is going to

464
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: crash today, Like right, you know that that's that's a

465
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: scary place to be, you know, grad you're.

466
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: Trying to figure out you're so much of your own

467
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: crap that.

468
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, you're worrying about.

469
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: The pimple you have on your forehead, not whether or

470
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: not you should go call NASA to forestall a national emergency.

471
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: Like it was just and and and that one is

472
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: like probably the most extreme example I have, Like literally

473
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: most of the other ones are like dreaming about in

474
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: the sign I'm going to get the next day where

475
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: I end up asking myself, like I said, actually for

476
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: telling the future? Or was I picking up the thoughts

477
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: of so somebody liked, did I just kind of eavesdrop

478
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: on the professor? Like I don't always know the answer.

479
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: Did you ever see Final Destination?

480
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 2: I am familiar with the series, I haven't seen all

481
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: of them.

482
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: Though, because that sounds a lot like the first Final Destination?

483
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: What happened to you? Because he has a premonition of

484
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: in airplane crashing and then as he's about to get

485
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: on it, and then it does crash, and it's and

486
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: it's again that like he what do you do with

487
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: that knowledge?

488
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: Well, and if you act on it to avoid the

489
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: thing that you foresaw, then it doesn't happen and you

490
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: have no way to know if what you foresaw was real.

491
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: We're just right anxiety. And if you don't act on it,

492
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: you're like, well, well crap.

493
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: Well, so by the seventh grade and when that happened,

494
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: I mean, were you already having these experiences?

495
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, yeah, I had stuff, So I guess a

496
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: little bit more background on me is I was born

497
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: with what's called a ventricular septle defect, which is to say,

498
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: my heart was very screwed up when I was born,

499
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: and I was born in the early seventies, which meant

500
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: that it was kind of an emergency thing, like there

501
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: was not a high chance that I would live past

502
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: the age of five, and the surgeries were super risky

503
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: and in fact, like the one that would have saved

504
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: my life, they couldn't do until I actually could wait

505
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 2: enough to be on the heart lung machine they had

506
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: available at the time. So there was a lot of

507
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: dodgy stuff going on when I was little, which also

508
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: meant that there were a lot of conversations when I

509
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: was tiny about life and death, what comes after, and

510
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: like really adult conversations. I had a lot of fairly

511
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: traumatic experiences, and you know, my mother confirmed that there

512
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: were a couple of you know, legitimate like which time

513
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: that you died on the operating table deer, just very

514
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: casually because that was just a thing. So there's that

515
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: argument that psychic abilities are enhanced by near death experiences. Personally,

516
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: I think I kind of came out of the box

517
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: with these abilities. But I also think that those experiences

518
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: as a tiny child really helped, I don't know, make

519
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: it more accessible, make it easier to talk about, make

520
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: me less fearful of any kind of repercussions. I mean,

521
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: when you're facing down death at three or four and

522
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: your family's like legitimately talking to you about that, there's

523
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: not many things that are going to scare you after that.

524
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So I mean, had you now do you

525
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: see like spirits and do you see you know, past

526
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: people that have passed.

527
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 2: When I was tiny, I saw them as if they

528
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: were physically there. The first ghost that I know for

529
00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: certain I perceived the small town Hinckley had. It was

530
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: a local residence. They were turning into the public library,

531
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: and unbeknownst to me at the time, multiple people were

532
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: seeing what they were calling the Lady in Blue. I

533
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: was four. I know. It was shortly before my final

534
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 2: heart surgery, so it was a summer that Star Wars

535
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: came out and we went there. My mom knew the librarian.

536
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: She got talking to the librarian. There's like all these

537
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: places where I wasn't supposed to go, and construction tape

538
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: and whatnot. So I was the kid who as soon

539
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: as Mom turned her back, I went exactly where I

540
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to go, which which led me upstairs to

541
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: a room that was disappointingly empty of anything beyond like

542
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: painting supplies and whatnot. Except there was a woman who

543
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: was standing at the window. And the thing is is,

544
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: at that time I saw her and parsed her as

545
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: if she were a real flesh and blood, living person.

546
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: I saw the buttons all up and down the back

547
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: of her dress, the weird sort of poofy shoulder bits

548
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: on her sleeves, and the way that they went down

549
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: really tight on her fore arms, and all the little

550
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: buttons there and that, like the tiny little blue flowers

551
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: that were like like almost look hand embroidered on this

552
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: dress and her hair.

553
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: Okay, she was turning out a look yeah.

554
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: No, like oh she had she had a very distinct look.

555
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: And she's just looking out the window. She never said anything.

556
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 2: She turned and she looked at me U And you know,

557
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: if I had the word melancholy at the time, I

558
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: would have said that she looked melancholy. She looked back

559
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: out the window. Mom. Mom called up for me. Finally,

560
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: realizing that I wasn't there, and I kind of like

561
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: duck partly out of the door. I never got in,

562
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: like like, I stopped in the door because you know,

563
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: here's some adult in here. And I called back to

564
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 2: Mom to let her know them I'm coming. You know

565
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: that flush of guilt that you have because you got caught.

566
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 2: And in the time that I turned my head away

567
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: and turned back, she wasn't in the room anymore, and

568
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: I was standing in the only door that went in

569
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: and out. So of course, four year old live told

570
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: me that she found a hiding place because she wasn't

571
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: supposed to be up there either. But it made an

572
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 2: impression on me. I remember the encounter. I talked about

573
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: it a little bit, you know, didn't get any pushback,

574
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: but it was it was years later that I found

575
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 2: The person I saw was someone who was described by

576
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: multiple people, and her name was Rebecca. She had lived

577
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: in the house with her brother. He had been like

578
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: the school teacher in the early eighteen hundreds. She had

579
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 2: died like an old maid at thirty eight or something

580
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: like at thirty It might be twenty eight. I mean,

581
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: it was like a ridiculous number where it's like seriously, guys.

582
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: But she was known for her needle point which I

583
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: saw her dress as white with blue flowers. Most people

584
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 2: reported her as the Lady in Blue, and I really

585
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 2: kind of hold to the fact that she showed up

586
00:35:54,440 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: in that dress so intently because she had hands own

587
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: that Like, this is totally my own head canon about it,

588
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: but I think that was a factor for why she

589
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: showed up so intently. But what I will say is,

590
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: as I got older, and not because anybody told me

591
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to see ghosts, but I think just

592
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: as I learned better to navigate the perceptions these days,

593
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: it's more that I'm seeing something with my mind's eye.

594
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 2: I am an incredibly visual person and so it's usually

595
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 2: quite vivid, but it's not as if I see them

596
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: physically standing in the room. Every once in a while,

597
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: I do, and I'll be honest, it throws me because

598
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: I don't expect it.

599
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: Hmm, yeah, I imagine. Do you think that you know?

600
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: Even with now again, like we've kind of established that

601
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: everyone kind of has psychic abilities, but there's always that

602
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: conversation of little kids are more connected. I mean, would

603
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: you say that that is what you just described, you

604
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: think that's similar with most children as well, ye with

605
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, why they stop seeing ghosts as they get older.

606
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: I think there's a number of factors for kids. I

607
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: mean some of it is literally like they just haven't

608
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: thought that they can't, Like nothing about their experience has

609
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: told them that this person shouldn't be standing there, and

610
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: so they simply react to as to it as if

611
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: they would anything else in their environment, their little sponges

612
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: for experience and perception. I think as kids start to

613
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: go to school, start to socialize, start to i don't know,

614
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: get a better handle just on a physiological level and

615
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 2: also like a personal psychological level of how they interface

616
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 2: with the world, they start to kind of narrow their

617
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: focus again, just because that's part of surviving in this life,

618
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: Like you start to rule out the stuff that nobody

619
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: else is talking about that doesn't seem to be the

620
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: focus of what you're learning about. Sure, and certainly there

621
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,959
Speaker 2: there's families and school systems and situations where people start

622
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 2: to be like actually suppressed, Like if they continue to

623
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: talk about it, oh, you know, that's just your imagine

624
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: cerinary friend, that's you know, all in your head. But

625
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: I think there is an aspect. That's simply how we

626
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 2: develop and settle into living this this thing called life.

627
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: Like we we don't need to in most cases perceive

628
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: the spirits and the other things around us. We do

629
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: need to worry about the car that's on the road

630
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: that we're crossing. We do need to worry about how

631
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 2: we do our ABC's and you know, how to interface

632
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: with the other living kids around us. And that's hard enough,

633
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: Like that takes up so much space in our brains.

634
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, when was the last time that you saw a

635
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: ghost where it threw you off?

636
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: The one that comes to mind specifically, Well, if we

637
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: don't count an animal ghost, because that's happened to couple times.

638
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: There was a Paranormal State episode where uh, I actually right,

639
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 2: Ryan had me on a walk through and this was

640
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: before the blindfold times. So we're going through this house

641
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: in Maryland, and you know, we've got a crew around

642
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: us all the time, and I think the episode before that,

643
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 2: i'd sort of like I liked opening doors and poking

644
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: my nose into closets and sort of seeing what was

645
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: going on. And there was a point where I opened

646
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: a door and there was someone who from the crew

647
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 2: who had like hidden in there because they like were

648
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 2: at the last minute, so like it was like kind

649
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: of an unintended jump scare for the both of us.

650
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 2: So what I thought was going on in this house

651
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 2: in Maryland was I caught a guy, uh walking into

652
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: this room and then ducking into what I assumed was

653
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: a closet, and I just like my eyes darted that

654
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: way and I kind of went, oh, I'm not going

655
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: to pay attention to that because that looks like a

656
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: crew member and that's probably got nothing to do with

657
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: this haunting. Ryan caught the look and like knew enough

658
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: about my body lane, which at that point he's like,

659
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 2: what what what caught your attention in that room? I'm like, uh,

660
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to say pretty sure it's a

661
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: crew member Ryan, like right on camera, but he finally

662
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: like pulled it out of me, and I'm like, I

663
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 2: saw a person wearing this and this and this and

664
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: they walked into that room, and I'm pretty sure it's

665
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: somebody on the crew and he's like, are you sure.

666
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 2: So we go into the room and uh, what I

667
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: thought was a bathroom that this person ducked into was

668
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 2: a blank wall.

669
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, ghost yeah, And as I.

670
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: As it turned out it was. It was one of

671
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: the Sun's rooms. And one of the things that he

672
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: was complaining about was seeing a guy who matched the

673
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: description of what I saw and like literally was certain

674
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 2: this was with my physical eyes, walking exactly that path

675
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: which took him across like the foot of their bed

676
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: and then almost to the wall, and then they would

677
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: make a sharp right turn and then just disappear into

678
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: a wall. And no, you like, like I I think

679
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 2: about it now, and I'm like that that was a person,

680
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: like like I saw that as a person, Like there

681
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: was no sense there was there was no point at

682
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: which if I had just casually had that experience on

683
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: anything other than a paranormal show, wouldn't have thought anything

684
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: of it.

685
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I have one more psychic question. And this is

686
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: also every time I talk to a psychic. I I

687
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: want it. I really want it to be clear that

688
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be like, oh, yeah, why didn't

689
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: you win the lotto? Like I never want to be

690
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: that person, because I'm not at all. But I was

691
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: wondering with like, when you did the blindfold thing, you

692
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: really it really is that kind of like blood hound feeling, Yeah,

693
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: like you really seem to like sniff out at location

694
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: and find things. Can you do that, like if you

695
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: lose keys or something like that, if you're trying to

696
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: find something.

697
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: As long as I don't get in my own way.

698
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: And one of the things that it's at least as

699
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: tricky for me is if it is my own stuff,

700
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: I am so entangled with it that it's hard to find.

701
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 2: It's hard to listen to the actual intuition over the

702
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: I really want to find my freaking keys. And this

703
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: is also why I've had a number of people reach

704
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 2: out to me with some really tragic things, where like

705
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: they want me to find the scattered, dismembered remains of

706
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 2: their murdered family member. Like it's actually gutting how many

707
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: people have reached out with specifically that, like, like, there

708
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: shouldn't be this many people with this problem, and yet

709
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: they are. And I have to always explain like how

710
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: my abilities work, like you see the ghost aspect of

711
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: the medium aspect on TV. But that's actually kind of

712
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 2: If I have a list of like ten things I do,

713
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: that's probably number four or five. And for me, the

714
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: loudest thing is always how a person feels, you know,

715
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: we toss out the word mpath a lot, and and

716
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 2: mpath is definitely a part of my ability cluster. So

717
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: when a person reaches out to me and is like,

718
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: and they have all of these feelings and all these

719
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: expectations and they really want to end in heaven, they

720
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: have like a whole bunch of ideas of what it

721
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: really is, I pick all that up first, and it's

722
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: so hard to pick anything else past that, Like, it's

723
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: really hard. It's like it's broken my objectivity. Yeah, and

724
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: I don't feel confident and I the rules that I

725
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 2: set for myself, especially if it's something that is that

726
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: important to someone. And I know finding keys is not

727
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: really that important, but in the moment sometimes it is.

728
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: We're like you, once your emotions get involved, it's really

729
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: hard to pick past all of that for me.

730
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine, because I feel like I have

731
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: this idea that there are psychics that homicide detectives higher.

732
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: I mean, is that a thing?

733
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: So I have a number of friends in law enforcement,

734
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: and I know that it has definitely been promoted on

735
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: a lot of television shows like this is a regular thing.

736
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: I do know that in a few rare cases it

737
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: has happened, but what I want to pose as someone

738
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: who works with homicide detectives in some completely different venues,

739
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 2: not psychic ones. What you really want your homicide detectives

740
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: or other detectives to do is to come up with demonstrable,

741
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: provable facts, and if there is any application for a

742
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: psychic in that, they might be able to point someone

743
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: toward where actual evidence can be found. But in the

744
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,240
Speaker 2: end it has to it must come down to hard

745
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: police work to find physical evidence that can then go

746
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: through the legal system, because the last thing anybody ever wants,

747
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: the last thing we ever ever need, is for someone

748
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: like me to be able to go, Oh, that person

749
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 2: over there is a murderer, you should go investigate them.

750
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: And I say it like that because we sat in

751
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: on a supposed psychic who swore up and down in

752
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: her presentation that she worked with the police all the

753
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: time and would just pick murderers out off the street

754
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: and have them arrested, which if you just apply a

755
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: little bit of logic to how the world works, that

756
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 2: it does not work that way. Like the guy I

757
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 2: was sitting next to happened to also be a police officer,

758
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: and he had to leave because he could not control

759
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: Like he just he almost started just yelling at her

760
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 2: from behind, because it's just that's how it works, and

761
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 2: nobody would want it to work that way. When I've

762
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: been asked to do psychic stuff in connection to these

763
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: investigations I have, it has been after the investigation has

764
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: been solved, all of the details of like murder or

765
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: whatever have been handled, and there's just a couple of

766
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: things that they would hope for, and they're totally like

767
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: grasping at straws for to give the family some sense

768
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 2: of closure. Ah Okay, at least that's been my experience.

769
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: That made me think about another thing what you're talking

770
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: about that psychic. Can you tell when someone's full of shit,

771
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: whether they're a psychic or just in life.

772
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I like to think that everybody is born

773
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: with a good functioning bullshit meter, and I heartily encourage

774
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: everyone if something, if something sets that meter off, sit

775
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: with that and ask some questions. I think I have

776
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: a pretty good sense of it, and I think it's

777
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: more than just psychic stuff, Like there's there's way ways

778
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: you read people. And you know, I'm not going to

779
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: pretend I don't have a background in psychology. Uh, with

780
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: some of my college stuff and all of that said, Uh,

781
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 2: I'd say my big achilles heel is if I'm way

782
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 2: too emotionally entangled or invested. And I think any of

783
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: us who've had a couple of bad axes like have

784
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 2: had this experienced. If you're just if you're too close,

785
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: you just don't see it. It doesn't matter. Yeah, how psychic,

786
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: how perceptive, how much of a sherlock you are for

787
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: everybody else, if you're too close, it's really hard to see.

788
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Michelle, And don't you worry,

789
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: there's way more. We've got the Demon episode next week

790
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: with Michelle. Again. Michelle has written and done so much

791
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: research and has so much of an education on religion

792
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: and a cult practice and demons and demonology and all

793
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: of that stuff. So it's a conversation you're not gonna

794
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: want to miss That will be next week. And if

795
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: you want to hear a little bit more, go to

796
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Roz dress Faless and you can

797
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: hear a couple more clips from this section of our conversation.

798
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: As always, please send me your listener stories to ghosted

799
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: by Roz at gmail dot com with the subject line

800
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: listener episode and send them to me quick. Also, please

801
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: join the Facebook group another great place to leave a

802
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: ghost story that is ghosted by Roz dress Faless on

803
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: Facebook and it's a private group and please join that.

804
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram at Roz Hernandez venmo Queen Roz what

805
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: am I missing? Oh? Five star review? Please please give

806
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: the show a five star review on Apple Podcasts and

807
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 1: if you have something nice to say, you could leave

808
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: a review there with your rating and you could also

809
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: leave a ghost story there if you'd like. I love

810
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: you all, both living and dead. But if I didn't

811
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me.

812
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: Okay. Back Stars

813
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: A podcast network