1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiyah and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: Me and you have had a lot of hair adventures together. 5 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Yes we have, Okay, okay, so like from cutting our 6 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: own hair, we both did that. I remember the last 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: time I cut my own hair. I facetimed you and 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: was like, I'm about to cut my hair. Watch. Yes, 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: it looked good. I remember you cut my hair. Oh 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: my gosh. We were doing things that really could just 11 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: be described as edgy. Yes, I mean, in the beginning 12 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: of our friendship, we were putting a lot of stuff 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: on our hair. I have to admit that I was 14 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: giving some not so awesome. You were driving advice, you 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: had me. I was making pastries and then you were 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: talking about greenhousing, putting a bag on there from my head, yes, 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: growing mold on our scalps. It was a tough time, 18 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: but it was a sign of the times because we 19 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: were all on YouTube just taking advice from anybody, anyone. 20 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: It felt like they were experts, but really they just 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: had a YouTube channel. But my bad for all of them, 22 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: I trusted your tt I trusted you. All this thinking 23 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: about hair, where we've come from, what we're still doing 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: and is questionable. 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: You know, we're doing all this stuff just to get 26 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: healthy hair right, and that feels like a great topic. 27 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. So let's jump into the recitation. 28 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: Let's start with what we know. Okay, So we know 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: that the haircare industry has their hands deep down in 30 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: our pockets. Oh, that's what we know. I know that 31 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: they're making a lot of money, and it feels like 32 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: every five to ten business days there's a new product 33 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: claiming that it's going to revolutionize our lives. And we've 34 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: never seen anything so good, and my bank account feels it. 35 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: I said, you're trying to many things. You're trying too 36 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: many things. But I think we've also seen hair go 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: through this like scientification process. I don't know if that's 38 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: really the word I'm looking for, but where we see 39 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: people understanding that all hair is not created equal and 40 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: there's different you know, curl types, porosity, texture. So I 41 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: feel like we know hair is different from one person 42 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: to the next. 43 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely, my friend Zakia can literally shave her head in 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: January and have hair down her back by March. Okay, 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: bust out. Okay, this hair does grow back fast, it does. 46 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: And me, on the other hand, I'm babies in these 47 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: twelve hairs that I got honey stock. I'm just taking 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: care of my little children here. 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: No, no, because I've seen the twist out and it's glorious. 50 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: Okay, I've seen the washing and go. When you do 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: that too, it has washed and left. 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: Okay, it's no longer here. Well, what do we want 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: to know aside from what happened to those hairs? 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: Right? I'm not a biologist, you know, I'm an engineer, 55 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: So I want to know the biology breakdown of hair, 56 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: Like what is it made of? People say it's dead cells, 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: but then they're like, cut off your dead ends. I'm like, 58 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: is it doubly dead? 59 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: Like? 60 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: How can both these things be true at the same time. 61 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I want to understand, Like 62 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: I understand the biology, but I want to understand the 63 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: chemistry of like what are we putting on our hair? 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: What can help it be healthy if it is dead? 65 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: What should we be thinking about when I'm standing in 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: Alta looking at all the different products Because me, I'm 67 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: a sucker for design I'm like, what does a bottle 68 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: look like? Okay, but aesthetics, but I need. 69 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: To know functional, what's happening in these bottles and what 70 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: do I need to have on my hair? 71 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: Well. I also want to know more about hair technology 72 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: and what we should be thinking about when we are 73 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: using products and how it affects our hair in the 74 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: long term and our bodies too. Yes, yes, that is 75 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: such a good point. I think that's a great place 76 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: for us to jump right into the dissection. Yes, and 77 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: this is another really special lab for us because we 78 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: have it with one of our longtime friends, doctor Sicily 79 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: shilling Ford. 80 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 3: I am doctor Cicely shilling Forward. I'm the Associate vice 81 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 3: president of Product Development, Innovation and Regulatory at Amica. We 82 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: are a global prestige haircare company that makes hair products 83 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: for all hair types and textures. You can find us 84 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 3: sets of Foura on Amazon if you are a cosmetologist 85 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: at cosmoprof and salon Centric. You can follow me on 86 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: Instagram at Cicely shilling Ford or on LinkedIn. 87 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: I think we want to just set the stage, you know. 88 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: I think people are always used in the term healthy here, 89 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: good here, and they all mean different things. But we 90 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: want you to walk us through what's actually happening on 91 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: a healthy scalp, like at the microscopic level, so we 92 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: can all get on the same page. I think sometimes 93 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: people think it's too early, it's too dry, it should 94 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: be slicked down. I'm like, none of that probably has 95 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: anything to do well, at least not the edge just 96 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 2: part with a healthy scalp. 97 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: But we'll have you orient us first. 98 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: I think, first of all, health can be a little 99 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: bit subjective, obviously in a lot of ways. So what 100 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 3: might feel healthy to someone might not be exactly healthy 101 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 3: to somebody else. But I think there's some basic things 102 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: that like are probably pretty obvious, Like a healthy scalp 103 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 3: is a clean scalp. 104 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 4: We can start there. 105 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 3: You know, one that's free of product build up, that's 106 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 3: not caked in conditioning agents and oils and. 107 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 4: All that stuff. 108 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: A healthy scalp is also going to be a scalp 109 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: that is balanced. And I know we got some micro 110 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 3: biologists up in here. Your scalp has its own microbiome. 111 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 3: As both of you probably know, throughout your body, you 112 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: have different micro environments everywhere, and the scalp is its 113 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 3: own unique micro environment, and that means you want certain 114 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 3: organisms that are there, and you want certain organisms that 115 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: are not there, and you want to maintain that balance. 116 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: And that balance might be different for different people, and 117 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 3: that's totally okay. You have super thick, dense hair. I mean, 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: those bacteria they love hanging out in there. It's like 119 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: the Amazon rainforest, so there's moisture oil and they have 120 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: everything they need to drive. So that means you have 121 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 3: to treat your scalp differently depending on your hair type. 122 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 3: Hair that's clean hair that has a robust barrier that 123 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: can protect it from the external environment and from external stressors. 124 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: But in general, you want your hair to be protected 125 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 3: because we're exposed to sun pollution, and healthy hair has 126 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 3: that protective barrier, so that's what's going to keep it 127 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: healthy as well. And then the healthy hair is also strong. 128 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 3: It's robust, it's able to resist breakage and can be 129 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: stretched and maintain its elasticity without breaking easily. 130 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: First of all, I hear about here all the time, 131 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: but nobody's getting into the nitty gritty. 132 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: So we have hair follicles all of our scalp, right, 133 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: And I like to describe the structure of the hair 134 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 3: as akin to a scallion. So we've all seen a scallion. 135 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: There's like a little white bulb at the bottom, there's 136 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: the little dangly roots hanging off, and then you have 137 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: like these layers of green, concentric kind of things coming out, 138 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 3: and it's the shaft of the hair as well, right, 139 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: And if when scallions grow, they're under a layer of 140 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 3: soil and the bulb is under the layer of soil, 141 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: it literally looks just like a hair follicle. So picture 142 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: that your soil is your skin, the roots of the 143 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: scallion are your blood vessels, you know, all the nutrients 144 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 3: that are being provided. And then the bulb is quite 145 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 3: literally called your hair bulb. And so that hair bulb 146 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 3: has multiple layers, similar to a scalion. Like you can 147 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: peel back all the layers, and that first outer layer 148 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: is called your outer root sheath, and that's going to 149 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 3: contain a lot of the stem cells that differentiate into 150 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:14,239 Speaker 3: hair cells. 151 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: Now, if you've listened to some of our previous episodes, 152 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: you'll know that stem cells have important properties. They can 153 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: make more cells like themselves, and they can make different 154 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: types of seals, and that's called differentiation, So they can 155 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: go on to be different types of sale, not just 156 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: the one that they start out as they choose in. 157 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: And then you have the inner root sheath, which is 158 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: like one layer in and that's really what's surrounding kind 159 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: of the base of the actual hair that's being formed. 160 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: And at the very bottom of the inner root sheath, 161 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: it encases the hair bulb. And within the hair bulb 162 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 3: you have the dermal papilla. That part is the super 163 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 3: important place in the inside the hair bulb. That is 164 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 3: basically what's delivering all the nutrients to the growing hair. 165 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 3: And that dermal pilla is made up of mesenchymal cells. 166 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,599 Speaker 1: So we just talked about stem cells, which can differentiate 167 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: into lots of different types of cells. Mesenchymal stem cells 168 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: are limited in that they can only differentiate into a 169 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: few different types MMM. So they're being investigated for their 170 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: role in hair regeneration and treatment of hair loss. 171 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 4: That's where all. 172 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: The like kind of blood vessels are like flowing all 173 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: the nutrients in, and that's where the hair starts to form. 174 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 3: And the hair honestly is like ninety percent keratin. That's 175 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: predominantly what's forming inside of the hair follicle. And when 176 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 3: you kind of like pluck a hair out, and like 177 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 3: you see a little like white stuff at the bottom 178 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: and right you're pulling out the hair follicle. You're kind 179 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: of just like pulling out the keratin that hasn't really 180 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 3: formed into the hair yet, and like the other gungkin nutrients. 181 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: That's good. See you remember I had those lemonade brightes 182 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: T T. 183 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: And the little white bulbs were just dangling, okay, And 184 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: I was like, these are follics, But those weren't follicles. 185 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: Those were hair bulbs using the wrong warbles follicle as 186 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: the whole. 187 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 3: So what's left, So there's some other things happening in 188 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: the hair follicle. You've got your sebaceous glands. Those are 189 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 3: what produced your sebum and you're sweat. 190 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 4: So what is sebum. 191 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: It's the specific blend of oils and lipids that form 192 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: both within the hair and actually on the outside of 193 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: the hair. So you actually have two classes of lipids 194 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 3: in your hair. You have endogenous lipids, these are the 195 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: ones that go inside the core of the hair, and 196 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 3: then you've got your exogynous slippets. 197 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 4: Those are all the oils and. 198 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: Fats that actually like coat the outside of the hair 199 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 3: and sort of drip down the hair and keep your 200 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: hair lubricated and moist and shiny. And those are formed 201 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: in the hair follicle as well. And then you have 202 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: you have your erector pili muscle, and that's a little 203 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: muscle that like controlled you know, like when you get 204 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: startled in your hair stands up. Yeah, that's your like 205 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 3: your muscle. There's like a muscle in there, and it 206 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 3: like makes the hair stand up. 207 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: That hair is really working. And that was all just 208 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: the follicle, right, keep going sistly. Let's move out of 209 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: the root and into the shaft. 210 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 3: So now we're on the green part of the scallion 211 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 3: as it starts to grow out of the soil. And 212 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: your hair shaft basically has three layers within the scallion. 213 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: The innermost layer is called the medulla. And not all 214 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: hair has this innermost layer. It's not often present if 215 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 3: your hair is very thin. Often the thicker hairs have it. 216 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: I don't. 217 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: Also, not all the hair on your body has this layer. 218 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 3: Then the next layer outside the medulla is the cortex, 219 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 3: and that's basically like your bundles of keratin that are 220 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 3: in all these helical formations, so they're just bundled up 221 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: nice and strong, and then the outer layer of the 222 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 3: hair is called the cuticle. And the cuticle is made 223 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: up of overlapping dead caratinocytes, which a caratinocyte is a 224 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: keratin producing cell, and those cells sort of flatten themselves 225 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 3: onto the hair shaft as it grows out of the skin. 226 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 3: And that's the outer layer of the hair. It's the 227 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: protective layer. It's like the skin on an onion. That 228 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 3: is the first line of defense against aggressors. And that 229 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 3: layer of hair also has a lipid layer. Now, mind you, 230 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: hair is still about ninety percent keraten. It's mostly keratin, 231 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 3: which is responsible for the strength of the mechanical properties. 232 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 3: The lipids are responsible for that barrier. They're going to 233 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 3: really keep the hair shiny smooth. And there are some 234 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 3: main lipids on the hair. It has seramides. We also 235 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 3: have fatty acids, cholesterols, and the most also important in 236 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 3: your skin. 237 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: This is making me think of when TT used to 238 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: make me make hair concoctions in grad school. And I 239 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: don't know why she's that night. She doesn't understand hair 240 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: now because she was giving out prescriptions. Hey, I was 241 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: just I was on YouTube a lot and they was 242 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: saying put eggs in your hair, put mayonnaise in your hair, 243 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: put everything in your hair. So I just was dumping 244 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: my entire fridge into my hair and was telling my 245 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: friend to do the same thing. 246 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 4: And how did that work out for you? 247 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: You know, that's a good question. As I sit here 248 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: with my six hairs. You know there were there were 249 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: mistakes made, but we're learning from you. 250 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: So but you know, all the aunties still be doing that. 251 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 3: You know, they're mixing and they're kitching their shades and 252 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: their coconut oils, and you know, to. 253 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 4: Each their own. Sometimes you gotta find what works for you. 254 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: When I hear you saying this stuff, like when you 255 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: mentioned cholestero, I was like, okay, I can think of 256 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: these things. When I hear you sam rhapnocyites which are 257 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: making keratin, I'm like, yes, I see all the things 258 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: that stay with keratin or this has this and ceremonise. 259 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: I see all of these terms, you know, and it feels. 260 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 2: Like the beauty industry just picks up one puts it down, 261 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: picks up another puts it down. And I don't know 262 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 2: if you feel like this. First, My my grandmother was 263 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: a hairdresser, Okay, so I was like, I didn't see 264 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: any of these terms until much much later because it 265 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: was a hot comb and blue magic. 266 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: Grease that I grew up with. 267 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: But there's just so much innovation in hair now. I 268 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: think maybe hair is just getting a lot more weight, 269 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: so people are looking for ways to. 270 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: Do different things. T T. I'm getting ready to bring 271 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: up something that I told you about, and you were 272 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: a skeptic. What dry shampoo? Yes? I was like okay. 273 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: She was like oh, because I was like, oh, my 274 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: hair is so greasy. Just cut a bob and I 275 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to wash my hair yet, 276 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: but it's so greasy. And she was like, go pick 277 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: up the Amika dry shampoo. I was like, dry shampoo 278 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: is not for us, It's for someone else. She said no, 279 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: and so I was like okay, fine. So I went 280 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: and grabbed a small bottle and it has changed my life. 281 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: Like on its face, I feel like I understand what's happening, 282 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: but I really don't know what's happening because that Amika 283 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: dry shampoo has changed the game for me. 284 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: All dry shampoos are a mixture of starches or some 285 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 3: sort of absorbent material. Some of them have silica Mika 286 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 3: dry shampoos. We tend to use rice starch, tapioca starch, 287 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: arrowroot starch. You'll see a few different ones across the collection, 288 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: and it's one of our number one products. I mean, 289 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: our dry shampoo, if I may be so bold us 290 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 3: to say, is the best. 291 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 4: It is so good. 292 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 3: It is so good, And what you want to achieve 293 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: with the dry shampoo is essentially the removal of like 294 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: oil and moisture from the root and from the scalp. 295 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 4: These starches. 296 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 3: If you've ever thickened a soup, you'll know that the 297 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: starches like to grab onto water and oils and that's 298 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: how they operate as a thickener, and that's pretty much 299 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 3: what's happening in your scalp. You put these absorbent materials 300 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: on your scalp when it's starting to get oily, or 301 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: before a workout, or even before you go to bed. 302 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 4: Which is a hack. 303 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 3: And as you start producing oils, it's going to latch 304 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 3: onto those oils and you can basically brush them out 305 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 3: of your hair, shake them out of your hair so 306 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: that you don't get a build up of oil on 307 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 3: the scalp. And this is beneficial for a lot of reasons, 308 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 3: especially for black women who press their hair, this could 309 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 3: be a very expensive process. 310 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 4: It can take a long time. 311 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 3: You don't want to be doing this every two days 312 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: because it's expensive. 313 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 4: You're in the chair for a while. 314 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 3: Also because you're just applying heat to your hair over 315 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 3: and over again, which can be damaging to the hair. 316 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: So dry shampoo can elongate the time between styling your hair, 317 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: which is overall like a pretty good thing for people 318 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 3: who don't want to add heat to their hair every day. 319 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: Who really did give us a heck? Okay, now I'm 320 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: using dry shampoo after I'm like, oh, it's already gotten bad. 321 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: But when you said before the gym and before ben 322 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: because the way I'm sweating at the back of my 323 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: neck needs to be studied. Okay, you talked about those glands, 324 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: but it's not right back there. 325 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 3: There's also a lot of things that like make dry 326 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 3: shampoo specifically special. You know, we want to have the 327 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 3: right particle size so it distributes nicely. It's propelled nicely 328 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: out of a can, so you can really get it 329 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: all up in your hair. Some starches like can be 330 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: too gritty, you know, some don't observe enough, so it's 331 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 3: just getting that formulation just right, and then you get 332 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: a nice burst of fragrance. 333 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: Yees, Pascal'll say, so. 334 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 4: Your hair smells nice and fresh. 335 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: And talking about cleaning your scalp. It really felt like 336 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: over the last like fifteen or twenty years that now 337 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: everything says salt fate free. Before then, no one was 338 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: ever talking about it, and now everything it's like, is 339 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: it saltfate free. I'm not gonna use it if it's 340 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: not salt fate free. I feel like salt fate free 341 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: is like a buzzword right now and has been for 342 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: a little while. Can you talk about why there was 343 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: a shift to salt fate free and what that means 344 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: for washing your hair? 345 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 3: A sulfate is a type of surfactant, and a surfactant 346 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 3: is this word is actually a portmanteau, which is a treat. 347 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 4: When I get to use the word portmanteau, it means 348 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: three academics walk into a room. 349 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: Somebody's gonna say port monteau. Okay, somebody port. 350 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 3: So it means surfactant means surface active agent with surfactants. 351 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 3: One part of it is water soluble and one part 352 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: of it is oil soluble. And so when you put 353 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 3: a surfactant in water, the oil soluble parts are like 354 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: I didn't sign up for this, and they just form 355 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 3: together into a group into a circle, and they put 356 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: all their little oily bits in a circle together and 357 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 3: kick out all the water, and then the water protects them. 358 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 3: It's like it forms a barricade. And this is called 359 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 3: a my cell. And if any of y'all have used 360 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 3: my cellar waters, perhaps yes. My cellar waters are basically 361 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 3: like very low levels of surfactin and an aqueous product 362 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: and you use it as like a no rinse makeup remover. 363 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: That's what the words what the word my cell means. 364 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 3: So my cell's form and these my cells are basically 365 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 3: able to grab onto all the oily bits and also 366 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 3: dissolve all the watery bits, so it can clean stuff, 367 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 3: so soaps, detergents, dishwashing detergent, all this stuff has my 368 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 3: cell's hand wash. So sulfates just happen to be some 369 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 3: of the stronger surfactants. Every survactant lives somewhere on this gradient. 370 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: Some people don't like strong cleansers because they can be 371 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 3: stripping right. However, it's it's very nuanced. Sulfates can be strong. 372 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 3: They can also not be that strong because sulfates are 373 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: a broad class of potentials or factors. It really just 374 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 3: depends on the structure of the molecules. So when we say, 375 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: like all selfates are bad, no, don't be silly. 376 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 4: Molecules are diverse. 377 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 3: However, in the cosmetic space and the beauty space, certain 378 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: molecules tend to just get a bad reputation. You're looking 379 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 3: at any ingredient list and you're standing in the row 380 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 3: at Target trying to figure out your business. You don't 381 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 3: have time to be reading somebody's. 382 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 4: Thesis on solvate. 383 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 3: So right, yeah, you know, it's a little easier for 384 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 3: consumer to be like, okay, solfates, I heard the bad 385 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: I'm not going to buy them and make that decision 386 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: for them. Doesn't necessarily mean the formula is super stripping. 387 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 3: It could actually be if you put one little drop 388 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 3: of sulfate in the ocean, it's a sulfated ocean, but 389 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 3: it's not going to be a strong shampoo. Hair is 390 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: also very emotional. You know, the whole experience of styling 391 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: your hair and it is your hair braking and hair 392 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 3: loss is very emotional. So purchasing products is emotional. As well, 393 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 3: and things are expensive, so we want people to feel 394 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 3: good about what they're buying, which means in some parts 395 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 3: like meeting them where they are. 396 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we want them to be informed like you 397 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: just informed everybody that's listening to Dope Labs. Basically, if 398 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: you've been washing your hair and it's not it's still 399 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: feeling greasy, it's still feeling whatever. Maybe you need more sulfate. 400 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: You gotta do what's right for you. Yeah, And sometimes 401 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 3: you might really need a deep cleanse. Like it's a 402 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 3: hot summer day, you've been at the beach, you have 403 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 3: twenty five layers of dry shampoo up and there. 404 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: I want to talk about, which I just posted about yesterday. 405 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: My hairstylist is an Amica Girley, but she was telling 406 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: me the same way that you talked. 407 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 2: About how the dry shampoo worked. She was telling me 408 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 2: about this anti humidity spray. Because I'm in Atlanta and 409 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: the girls are wearing you know, bust down part in 410 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: the middle thirty inches. Now, that's okay if that's a 411 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 2: quick weave or sewing or something, right, But when it's 412 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: your hair and you hit that humidity and my cuticle 413 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 2: begins to swell as you said, and from point A 414 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: to point now, when I do it, my hair is poofy. 415 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: But when she does it and I go out, it 416 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: could be drizzling. I could just put a little paper 417 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: up and I'm okay. And I was like, what are 418 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: you using? 419 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: And so she sent me this picture like this is 420 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: what you need, and it was the Mica anti humidity spray. 421 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: The shield. 422 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 4: The shield. The shield is so good. She really is 423 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 4: that girl. She is shielding your hair from humidity. 424 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 3: So we we actually just launched a new anti frize 425 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 3: humidity product. 426 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 4: So how does the shield work? 427 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 3: And so both products they work similarly, but they're different 428 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 3: formats for different use cases, but you can also use 429 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 3: them together. So the shield essentially has technology in there 430 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 3: that when you spray it onto your hair. I would 431 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: spray it on when it's like almost dryer dry style 432 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: to finish it and lock it in when you're doing 433 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 3: your last couple presses with the flat iron, because it's 434 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 3: got this technology that is going to crosslink once you 435 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: apply heat to it and form what's essentially like a 436 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: bit of a plasticized layer on the surface of your 437 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 3: hair that provides like an umbrella for shield. Yes, and 438 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 3: then we took this to the next level with our 439 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: newest product, which is more of a leven. So you 440 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 3: put it on when your hair is damp, and you 441 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 3: can use them both at the same time. You put 442 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 3: on when your hair is damp. It has these next 443 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: generations silicone polymers in there that have multiple blocks on 444 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 3: them for different reasons. You've got silicone blocks that basically 445 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 3: provide softness to the hair. You've got a cross linking 446 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 3: block that when you apply heat, these polymers basically stick 447 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 3: to each other. They cross link and they form a 448 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 3: flexible film on the hair. And when you form this 449 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 3: film on the hair and you heat treat it into 450 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 3: the hair, you're basically creating a layer on the surface 451 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 3: of the cuticle that's going to prevent humidity from getting 452 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 3: into the hair. 453 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: No weapon formed against me, no weapon. This is actually 454 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: the weapon. As soon as as a kid tells me 455 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: to get something, I get it. And so I am 456 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: using all those things, and my shield spray is on 457 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: the web. TT is using a lot of product in general. 458 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: I use a lot of product in general all the 459 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: time for everything, and I'm just I really need to 460 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: dial some of this stuff back. 461 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 2: I think what we've learned is that not every product 462 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 2: works for everybody, And so I would love for you 463 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about what you're gonna find 464 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: working for different people, like porosity, pH texture, Like you 465 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 2: just said, like if you have curly hair, you're gonna 466 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 2: want more conditioner to reduce that strain that's already inherent 467 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: in that curl pattern. So I think you just want 468 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 2: to help people understand, like what might work for this 469 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: general class or this general feature, what kind of products 470 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: might work for you versus others. 471 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 3: Hair is so complex because when you think about skincare, 472 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 3: it's kind of easier to work in product development. Everybody 473 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 3: has the same goals clear skin, no dark spots, no wrinkles. 474 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. 475 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 3: Well, with hair, everybody has different goals and everybody has 476 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 3: different starting points, which means there's so many concoctions and 477 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: things you can do and routines and what you might 478 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 3: want your hair to look like on Monday might be 479 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 3: different than on Tuesday, and say there'sday Friday. It's always changing. 480 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: You might want to serve in different personalities. 481 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's also kind of the beauty of afrotectured 482 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: hair because there's so many possibilities you can be so 483 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: many different people, and it's so versatile. I really like 484 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 3: the way that Amika structures our products because they're by 485 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 3: goals thereby objectives. So when you shop for our products, 486 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 3: it's I want volume, I want detox, I want strength, repair, 487 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: I will need hydration, I need more moisture, and you 488 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: kind of shop based on the benefit that you're searching for, 489 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 3: and that's kind of like one way to figure out 490 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: what makes sense for you, what do you want your 491 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: hair to do? And then styling it gets even more complicated. 492 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 4: Is it straight? Is it this? 493 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 3: Do I need humidity? What climate do I live? And 494 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 3: it's if you all talk about needing the shield and 495 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 3: anti frizz as a function of your environment, So you 496 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 3: reach for those products that serve those specific needs. So 497 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 3: there's no right and wrong product for people. I really 498 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: think it's based off of what does. 499 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 4: Your hair need? 500 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 3: What are your goals? What do you want to do 501 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 3: with your hair? And then the second layer of it 502 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: is like what is the condition of your hair? And 503 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: that's going to also help you choose. So I have 504 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 3: very thin, fine, very porous hair, and when your hair 505 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 3: is porous, that basically means have bigger gaps in your cuticle. 506 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 3: That could be one reason. It could also be porous 507 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 3: because it's been damaged by bleach or by pollution or 508 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 3: by sheets that m Yeah, because we got free radicals 509 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 3: up in here. I live in New York City. We 510 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 3: got sun damage. We have free radicals getting in there 511 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 3: and damage and all the caratan and all that kind 512 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 3: of stuff. So your hair ages as well because you 513 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: know of the environment. A lot of how your hair 514 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 3: shows up is just the techniques you use to style it, 515 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 3: especially as someone who wears my hair naturally curly, like 516 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 3: pretty much one hundred percent of the time. So you 517 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 3: could have really super super fine hair and you don't 518 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 3: want to weigh it down, so you want to look 519 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 3: for products that are going to not weigh the hair down. 520 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 3: Or My sister, on the other hand, has very low 521 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 3: porosity hair. I have high perosity hair, which means that 522 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 3: if you put a lightweight gel on her hair, it's 523 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 3: just like, nope, not today. It just rolls right off 524 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 3: into the garbage. It does not staying on the hair 525 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 3: because her hair is so like the lipid coating on 526 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 3: the surface of her hair and the primary lipid on 527 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 3: the surface of your hair by the way is called 528 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: eighteen MEA. That's eighteen methyl like heisenoic acid that lipid layers. 529 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 3: For some people is just it's just stuck on there. 530 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 3: It's happy, it's not going anywhere. 531 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: We have a mutual friend Britney. She will put that 532 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: edge control, that hair will lay down. They'll let jail 533 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: and swoop. I don't like skin. 534 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I had a silk press. She put that whatever 535 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 2: she was using on her, that jail she was using. 536 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: My hair curled right up at the root. I was like, 537 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: too much moisture. I don't know what you did, but 538 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: now swollen cuticles. 539 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: Okay, now I have a problem. Can you talk to 540 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: us more about like hair technology that you see like 541 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: coming down the pike, or hair technology that excites you 542 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: that you want people to know about. 543 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 3: I am really excited about some of the sustainability innovations. 544 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 4: That's what gets me going personally. 545 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 3: I would love to see a lot of the materials 546 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 3: that we use in haircare us continuing to find regenerative 547 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: sources of those materials that are. 548 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 4: Going to continue to be fantastic for the Earth. 549 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 3: Something I came across the other day that was really 550 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 3: interesting was a company that's using photosynthesis to create materials. 551 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: So they have this synthetic photosynthesis process that is a 552 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 3: carbon capture process, So you use carbon and water as 553 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 3: your feedstocks CO two and water and you're able to 554 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 3: create ingredients via photosynthetic mechanisms by using these like bioengineered plants, 555 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 3: so you can create a carbon negative ingredient for the 556 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: cosmetics industry. Like, how amazing would that be? I think 557 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 3: the company is called Arborea, So shout out to Arborea. 558 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 3: Hopefully I represented your technology correctly because I saw it 559 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: and I thought it was so cool. Something else that 560 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 3: we're doing at a MICA, which is a partnership that 561 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 3: will continue to roll out and chat about in the 562 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 3: coming months and years, but we're working with a regenerative 563 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 3: agriculture company that space in Africa, which regenerative agriculture essentially 564 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 3: means that we're ensuring that the soil is regenerative, that 565 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 3: the communities are regenerative, that the farmers are regenerative for 566 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: generations to come. We're able to actually support local economies 567 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 3: in various farms in Africa, and they are creating ingredients 568 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 3: that are very common to the cosmetics industry and in 569 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: dogens to the regions, such as shade butter and avocado 570 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 3: oil and babbab oil. So we're working to actually integrate 571 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 3: some of their materials into our supply chain, not just 572 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 3: because we love shade butter and it's great for the hair, 573 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 3: but because we want them to get into the US 574 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 3: supply chain. We want to enable them to not just 575 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 3: provide us with ingredients, but to provide other brands with ingredients. 576 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 3: You'll hear people talking about biotech derived ingredients, which is 577 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: like the new way we're describing kind of fermentation derived materials, 578 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 3: and like fermentation has been happening since the beginning of time. 579 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 3: People have been drinking wine for a very long time, 580 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 3: but we've sort of rebranded it as biotech, which it 581 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 3: is biotech, I mean ultimately, but really it's kind of 582 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: engineered fermentation to tell a microorganism to produce a certain 583 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 3: protein or a certain peptide. So examples of this are 584 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: there's an interesting company called Both Threads. They're producing this 585 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 3: bioengineered spider silk, which is like very cool, very interesting 586 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 3: material for skin and hair. 587 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: So put wine in your hair. I got it, Okay, 588 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: So that's not what she's said. 589 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 4: I mean, you can packet with some resveratrol. 590 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 3: You polyphenols protect from those free radicals you know. 591 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: Tit and I have seen you go from graduate student 592 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: who now product development extraordinary in the haircare industry. And 593 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: I think one of the things we love is for 594 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: people to understand, like the day to day what you're 595 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: using around you, there's science all in it, and so 596 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: I'd love for you to talk a little bit about 597 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: how you're leveraging some of the science you know in 598 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: your role. 599 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,239 Speaker 3: I love to talk about science, and I do use 600 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 3: science all the time. Understanding that hair is a material 601 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 3: is very important in my role, and I actually started 602 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: my career in material science and materials engineering creating surfaces 603 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: that are super hydrophobic, meaning they can repel water and 604 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 3: other complex liquids as well. And most of hair care, 605 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 3: as we described with the Shield and our new Frisbee, 606 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 3: not antiphrase hydrating treatment, is about making the hair hydrophobic 607 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 3: and protected so that you can have shiny hair, softer hair, 608 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,479 Speaker 3: conditioned hair, hair that resists humidity. That's a pretty much 609 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: the goal of a lot of styling products. So my 610 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 3: career in material science has been really helpful in my 611 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 3: understanding of hair care. It's very related and I am 612 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 3: my PhD. I studied colloid chemistry, surfactants, the underlying mechanisms 613 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 3: of how products are made. I mean we have to 614 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 3: use emulsion chemistry all the time with product development, and 615 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 3: by and large, I would say doing a PhD just 616 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 3: helps me learn and understand science very quickly and like 617 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 3: logically think through whether something is feasible. A lot of 618 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 3: formula development product development, Like there's a lot of ideas 619 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of good ideas, and I mean 620 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: all ideas are good ideas, but not all ideas like 621 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 3: will abide by the laws of science, physics and chemistry. 622 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 3: Product development's also about quality, you know, stability of products, 623 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 3: all that stuff. It's it's helpful to have a technical 624 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 3: background for sure. 625 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope 626 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: Labs podcast dt is on X and Instagram at dr Underscore, 627 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: t Shoe, and you can find Takiya at Z said so. 628 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media. Our senior 629 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate producer is 630 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: Isara Savez. Dope Labs is sound design, edited and mixed 631 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: by James farber Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and 632 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: Production is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is 633 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: Katrina Norvil. 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