Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal.
Speaker 2: Hell that for me, I'm a man, I'm forty. I've
Speaker 2: heard so many players say, well, I want to be happy.
Speaker 2: You want to be happy for a day at the steak?
Speaker 2: Is that woo woom? And them and Tye, welcome.
Speaker 1: Back to the solid verbal boys, girls, my name is
Speaker 1: ty Hildenbrand, joining me as always over there in beautiful Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker 1: I'm the only Dan Rubertstein, Sir, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good, Ty. A little bit before we started recording,
Speaker 2: you said, I'm gonna need you to up your your
Speaker 2: What am I even opting? My my killer hurts? My
Speaker 2: hurts to forty eight thousand?
Speaker 1: Need to go to forty eight thousand hurts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a sample rate. That's It's sort of like
Speaker 2: how much audio quality is coming in for lack of
Speaker 2: a better explanation.
Speaker 1: Correct, for lack of a better explanation correct.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I want people to know that if we
Speaker 2: are sounding particularly clear and of high quality, that's why,
Speaker 2: and not just in actual tone, but what we're saying.
Speaker 2: The quality has to be going up now, right, That's
Speaker 2: how this works.
Speaker 1: I mean we can use that as a talking point
Speaker 1: if we want my understanding is that it all gets
Speaker 1: boiled out and post anyway.
Speaker 2: But I was gonna say, you're probably compressing it all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a few reasons why we're gonna give
Speaker 1: it a shot here, but hopefully, hopefully the quality is there,
Speaker 1: both in terms of audio in terms of content. Because
Speaker 1: full disclosure, I have no idea what we're talking about
Speaker 1: on this show. You put a concept together. I was
Speaker 1: doing the mysterious day job thing all day. We were
Speaker 1: barely in communication, and you just wrote to me at
Speaker 1: three point twenty one, all right, I've got the concept.
Speaker 1: We are recording this about almost exactly an hour later.
Speaker 1: So I'm generally very leery about you doing this to
Speaker 1: me because we end up talking about our marriages or
Speaker 1: something of that.
Speaker 2: Ill right true, But at least when we do that,
Speaker 2: now we music it out, we divorce, shack it out,
Speaker 2: and it's only available to patreons on Forballers dot com.
Speaker 2: So at least we set that as a new a
Speaker 2: new template for how that works. Originally, I was going
Speaker 2: to do a Q and a situation with older questions.
Speaker 2: It's hard to explain what my plan was, but I
Speaker 2: was thinking about it, and actually my middle brother Max
Speaker 2: is in town, and we were talking earlier. He is
Speaker 2: a big fan of the Master Class Theory the series
Speaker 2: Theory Master Class series on.
Speaker 1: I get like a million Instagram and social media ads.
Speaker 2: For that, right, Like, if you want to cross over,
Speaker 2: like Steph Curry, you just watch the video and boom
Speaker 2: you have a cross to go, Steph Curry. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: you want to watch really lengthy Hallway conversations or write
Speaker 2: scripts with them, you just watch Aaron Sorkin and boom
Speaker 2: you're able to the.
Speaker 1: Two that, for some reason are served up to me
Speaker 1: more than the others. Yeah, there's there's one dude who's
Speaker 1: doing like profiling. I forget what the chorus is exactly,
Speaker 1: but like you could tell police filing, like you could
Speaker 1: tell someone's lying to you.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: I forget what that what the course topic is. And
Speaker 1: then there's another one, Daniel Pink teaches the art of persuasion.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I keep getting that maybe they know
Speaker 1: how bad I am when it comes to debating you,
Speaker 1: and so they're trying to give me The Internet's trying
Speaker 1: to send me signs or something.
Speaker 2: So but it evoked something, It sparked something. There are
Speaker 2: embers in my brain now, because what is the off
Speaker 2: season for everybody if not a chance for continued learning,
Speaker 2: for self scouting and saying how do we get better
Speaker 2: for the next season? And so Masterclass, as far as
Speaker 2: I can tell, not a sponsor, absolutely not a sponsor
Speaker 2: would be open to sponsorship. You and I are both
Speaker 2: working on projects, untitled projects that are analogous to the
Speaker 2: Master Class series. But I was thinking about it, and
Speaker 2: I was thinking this, there's something here, as there's spring
Speaker 2: football in summer workouts, and there are there are reasons why.
Speaker 2: I mean, the one continued thing in college football is
Speaker 2: the attention that coaches receive because they're you know, players,
Speaker 2: transfer players, wash out players, go pro players, exhaustral eligibility.
Speaker 2: But the one consonant in the way that perhaps pro
Speaker 2: athletes are in their sports in our sport is coaches.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to rank coaches. Everybody ranks coaches
Speaker 2: every offseason, and they pretend like, well, we have to
Speaker 2: do this, we have to got to we gotta say
Speaker 2: Kirk Parents is criminally underrated. You know, every single April
Speaker 2: or whatever that these pieces come out, I don't want
Speaker 2: to talk about that. I don't want to rank coaches
Speaker 2: because you know, it's all all nonsense. But what I'm
Speaker 2: fascinated to do with you is, there's a reason why
Speaker 2: fair or not good or not whatever, why college football
Speaker 2: head coaches have ascended to the position that they have
Speaker 2: ascended to, whether it's on field coaching acumen, whether it's recruiting,
Speaker 2: whether whatever it is, or if it's it's more abstract,
Speaker 2: you know, it's an ability to convince the world this,
Speaker 2: it's an ability to convince players this. There's a reason
Speaker 2: why these coaches are where they are, good or bad.
Speaker 2: What I want to do is I want to review
Speaker 2: a number of coaches and figure out what their very
Speaker 2: specific master class topic would be within the world of
Speaker 2: college football coaching. Oh okay, so I'll give you an
Speaker 2: example of what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1: You just came up with this at three twenty one.
Speaker 2: Yes, I did. Well. My brother is he's a huge fan.
Speaker 2: He watches he watches science ones, he watches sports ones
Speaker 2: and cooking ones. And I think he watched a poker
Speaker 2: one with Daniel mcgroney. What what's like whatever that guy's are.
Speaker 1: I need to look up this one that I that
Speaker 1: I keep getting served so that I'm yeah. So they
Speaker 1: we'll get out here on it, but.
Speaker 2: It sounds like a cool product. And again they're not
Speaker 2: saying a cent.
Speaker 1: Wasn't your dad really into these two?
Speaker 2: So my dad is into something similar. My dad's into
Speaker 2: something called the Great Courses, in which he watches notable
Speaker 2: college professors teach classes about like art history or music
Speaker 2: appreciation or the Civil War or whatever. So it's it's similar,
Speaker 2: but I think Masterclass is more practitioners, and he has
Speaker 2: watched a lot more professors. So instead of Chris Voss
Speaker 2: teaches the art of negotiation, him and Daniel Pink are
Speaker 2: all over my social media feed. I think people are
Speaker 2: super into it. As far as I can tell, I
Speaker 2: think it's a successful company. But so here's my example.
Speaker 2: Like if I were to ask you, like, what is
Speaker 2: the master class that Nick Saban could likely teach?
Speaker 1: He could teach a bunch of them.
Speaker 2: Right, of course he could. But like, I think the
Speaker 2: overarching thing of like, what is the thing that Nick
Speaker 2: Saban has mastered, and that is the ability to adapt?
Speaker 2: That is the ability to adapt to recruiting, the ability
Speaker 2: to adapt to coaches, leaving the ability to adapt to
Speaker 2: various styles coming into and out of football. He is
Speaker 2: always sort of he's not all that stubborn he is,
Speaker 2: you know, has the ability to sort of go like
Speaker 2: microscopic and day by day and pay attention to details.
Speaker 2: But I think adaptation, how to adapt to modern times,
Speaker 2: how to stay ahead of the curve, how to not
Speaker 2: get lazy, how to understand what's happening around you, that's
Speaker 2: Nick Saban's mastery, right. If it were to boil down
Speaker 2: to anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean the first thing
Speaker 1: that comes to mind on the field is obviously defense,
Speaker 1: defensive backs, like that's sure, that's that's part of how
Speaker 1: we can think about it more in a more abstract
Speaker 1: way as well. Yeah, I mean that's part of how
Speaker 1: he's made his hay. But with him being the legend
Speaker 1: that he is having had so much success, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: absolutely got to be something broader like adaptation in the sport.
Speaker 1: And look, it's a story every year, it's a theme
Speaker 1: every year. His staff rolls over. It's not like losing
Speaker 1: one or two guys. He loses a lot. Last year
Speaker 1: before the season he was pretty much rebooting. So for sure,
Speaker 1: I think the art of adapt.
Speaker 2: Is once again. He lost a ton of assistants this year. Yeah, absolutely, No,
Speaker 2: it's adaptation and like and like, we could go to
Speaker 2: Clay Helton. What is the master class of Clay Helton?
Speaker 1: I think remaining anonymous submid a very visible profession in sports.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean anonymity is one thing. But Hudson News
Speaker 2: test right, Well, it's the Hudson News, but it's also
Speaker 2: Clay Helton has a master class of one hiring an
Speaker 2: agent to negotiate a contract with an enormous buyout in
Speaker 2: uncertain financial times for USC. But also his mastery is
Speaker 2: in he's a likable person. He is he is a
Speaker 2: likable person by all accounts that if we don't want
Speaker 2: to pay a buyout, and if he is somebody who
Speaker 2: has achieved some level of success at USC, they won
Speaker 2: a rose bull in a memorable game against Penn State.
Speaker 2: It's his ability to put those in charge of him
Speaker 2: at ease with him as a human. Because if from
Speaker 2: from a business standpoint, sure, we can't put a course
Speaker 2: out on our coach masterclass website with how to be likable? Well,
Speaker 2: isn't that what's the win friends and influence people? Isn't
Speaker 2: that a thing? Isn't that like from the forties or
Speaker 2: thirties or something, It's a thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when to reboot that with Clay Helton?
Speaker 2: I think there is some thing to that, and there
Speaker 2: are people what people ascend through every industry. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's always going to be the politics of something, but
Speaker 2: people ascend through industries. And I thought he was a
Speaker 2: pretty good offensive coordinator, and I thought he was a
Speaker 2: steadying hand when things got pretty volatile at USC behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, and that's something they needed. But there is
Speaker 2: an element to somebody keeps getting promoted, Somebody works their
Speaker 2: way up up a corporation because or the military, whatever
Speaker 2: it is, because they just get along with people. They're
Speaker 2: just like somebody that you want to be in a
Speaker 2: meeting room, somebody you want to go to an off
Speaker 2: site with. There is that element to Clay Helton where
Speaker 2: and you know, he fails the Hudson News tests in
Speaker 2: terms of being recognized. But on that flight, on that
Speaker 2: ensuing flight, if you happen to sit next to Clay Helton,
Speaker 2: he'll be like, what do you do for a living?
Speaker 2: Two kids?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: That's what an age? He's that guy?
Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's okay, so this is very intriguing.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking. So we're with me here, Dabo Sweeney subtitle
Speaker 1: the art of building a winning team and this.
Speaker 2: Is this is a post colon is what you're doing.
Speaker 1: I'm doing a little subtitle action here. It could really
Speaker 1: be more dramatic with it. Dabo Sweeney has obviously built
Speaker 1: a winning team on the field, built the dynasty with
Speaker 1: his bare hands at a place where there wasn't one previously.
Speaker 1: But one of the most well known stories that we've
Speaker 1: unpacked countless times with our friend Andy Staples is what
Speaker 1: Dabo did when he first took over at Clemson. It
Speaker 1: was not enriching himself. It was taking a little bit
Speaker 1: of a lesser salary to try and surround himself with
Speaker 1: really good coaches, really good assistants that could help elevate
Speaker 1: the overall health of the program. He's done that, and
Speaker 1: he has retained a lot of those guys over time.
Speaker 1: In Preventables, right, We've we've talked about that situation countless times.
Speaker 1: I think he could probably bring a really interesting perspective
Speaker 1: on how to assemble the part it's around you to
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's targeted at new managers, middle managers.
Speaker 1: How do you build that team around you fill in
Speaker 1: the complementary parts to help elevate a program.
Speaker 2: There's something there. There's something there. I think we can
Speaker 2: we can drill a little bit deeper than that in
Speaker 2: terms of what is the reason that Dabbo has had
Speaker 2: the success he's had at a place that traditionally in
Speaker 2: the modern era had a clearly capped ceiling. What is
Speaker 2: it about Dabbo that I mean, you can go back
Speaker 2: to when he was hired, but there's something about Dabbo
Speaker 2: being all things to all people.
Speaker 1: Didn't he didn't he build a ball pit in the
Speaker 1: Clemson facilities with.
Speaker 2: His bare hands, Like the ballpit.
Speaker 1: Really does go a long way with today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe mini golf something, yeah, mini golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something there.
Speaker 2: A slide, No, there there is something about being all
Speaker 2: things to all people where he is that public aw
Speaker 2: shucks guy, and then on the recruiting trail, on the field,
Speaker 2: in hiring practices, there is that killer that he also
Speaker 2: needs to be. There is that? I mean, it's an
Speaker 2: adaptability in a different way, I would say, because I
Speaker 2: don't think he's built exactly like Nick Saban, but I
Speaker 2: think you remember that old I maybe even references on
Speaker 2: the show before because it's such a funny sketch when
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman played Ronald Reagan on SNL where when the
Speaker 2: cameras rolling he's he's just like, well, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I mean super slick, and then the cameras go off
Speaker 2: and he goes back to the war room. He's like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna kill them all. There is something about that
Speaker 2: Phil Hartman Ronald Reagan impression on SNL to Dabbo, where
Speaker 2: he is portraying himself as what people want to see
Speaker 2: from him publicly, and this is no different than basically
Speaker 2: any other coach. He just happens to be exceptional at it.
Speaker 2: And then I think behind closed doors there's nothing ah
Speaker 2: shucks about.
Speaker 1: Him to clearly say is a two fit.
Speaker 2: But I'm not. I'm not doing that in a pejorative way.
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not attempting to anyway. I think he's
Speaker 2: I think that's a very good skill to have. I
Speaker 2: think almost like a political skill.
Speaker 1: I think what about the art of compartmentalization.
Speaker 2: I think that's something there. I think there's something there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, being able to segment off different aspects of your
Speaker 1: personality and deploy each one you need to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's true, there's something there as well, all right,
Speaker 2: He knows his audience. He absolutely always knows his audience.
Speaker 2: You tell me, where do you want to go? You
Speaker 2: want to go a lesser name, Well, I want to
Speaker 2: go back, I want to go I want to.
Speaker 1: Go Matt Campbell. Okay, I think Matt Campbell's interesting because
Speaker 1: Matt Campbell's building it. He's clearly built well, I shouldn't
Speaker 1: say he's building a dynasty, but he's definitely building momentum.
Speaker 2: I mean, in terms of clone terms, we're in the
Speaker 2: midst he is building serious momentum at Iowa State. He's
Speaker 2: perpetually rumored to go elsewhere, but at least up to date,
Speaker 2: he's stayed put.
Speaker 1: He's going to continue building what he started. Names I
Speaker 1: could go a number of different directions with him. I mean,
Speaker 1: the thing that, the most obvious thing that I think
Speaker 1: comes to mind when we think of this is Matt
Speaker 1: Campbell knows how to optimize production because he is not
Speaker 1: getting the cream of the crop from a recruiting standpoint,
Speaker 1: yet he is finding a way to be like crazy
Speaker 1: competitive against the best in college football, and he seems
Speaker 1: to get always the most bang for his buck. So,
Speaker 1: like an efficiency of productivity, there's something about the way
Speaker 1: that he is going about his business that is just
Speaker 1: squeezing every last drop out of the talent that he has.
Speaker 2: I don't know what. Maybe you can come up with
Speaker 2: a word for this. Is there something about your excite
Speaker 2: bike over Maybe he is just how to excite bike?
Speaker 2: How to what he is doing? Right?
Speaker 1: He couldn't hold the B button. That's my big ripe,
Speaker 1: like the B button would overheat the bike.
Speaker 2: I think he can ride the B button better than
Speaker 2: any coach in America in terms of buy in. Okay,
Speaker 2: in terms of maxing out his bike on the whatever
Speaker 2: the track, I think he can he can ride. I
Speaker 2: mean in sports games there's that turbo element, right, you
Speaker 2: can't hold down the turbo for too long or else
Speaker 2: you're gonna have no turbo. I think his ability to
Speaker 2: ride the excite bike B button with his roster in
Speaker 2: terms of buy in, in terms of caring, in terms
Speaker 2: of fully maximizing the ceilings of his players, he does
Speaker 2: that better than anybody he brings out like his If
Speaker 2: there were video game meters, his buy in and care
Speaker 2: meter in terms of what his player's average seems like
Speaker 2: it exceeds just about everybody relative to whatever the recruiting
Speaker 2: talent on hand, which is still really good all things
Speaker 2: considered for Iowa State's recent history. So I think that's
Speaker 2: the master class there. The master class is to basically
Speaker 2: maximize what you have and not to fret about what
Speaker 2: you don't. There was a story, remember later in the season,
Speaker 2: there was like Texas has five star players, Oklahoma's five
Speaker 2: star players. We've got five star culture, and it's totally
Speaker 2: cheese ball. It's obviously totally cheese ball. But if the
Speaker 2: secret sauce of college football is always acquiring and convincing
Speaker 2: talented players to play as hard as they possibly can
Speaker 2: and to care about playing hard at all times, that's
Speaker 2: that's the secret sauce for Iowa State right now is
Speaker 2: riding that BE.
Speaker 1: Button, riding the B button.
Speaker 2: Not pushing it too far, but knowing which literal buttons
Speaker 2: to push on that NES controller to get that buy
Speaker 2: in he needs to get because you watch Iowa State
Speaker 2: play and they're just they just they care fourteen. They're
Speaker 2: set more on every play than just about everybody they
Speaker 2: line up.
Speaker 1: There is that combination of maximizing morale with maximizing you know,
Speaker 1: your productivity on the field. Like sure, in many ways
Speaker 1: he would be the perfect person to give a business
Speaker 1: convention on how to do it, how to get the
Speaker 1: most out of your sales staff. You know that sort
Speaker 1: of thing.
Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, all right, who's next? Give me another name?
Speaker 2: Or do you want me to own you? Throw me
Speaker 2: Matt Campbell, Jim Harbaugh, give me the master class on
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh that Jim Harbaugh is teaching and it doesn't
Speaker 2: have to necessarily be positive. We weren't. I think it
Speaker 2: was a backhanded compliment to Clay Helton about what his
Speaker 2: master class is, just like how to be likable and
Speaker 2: keep moving up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Jim Harbaugh has sort of been the
Speaker 1: master of shorter stints at a place being used to
Speaker 1: like parlaying that into other high paying jobs.
Speaker 2: By the way, isn't there isn't there a vorpe element
Speaker 2: to Clay Helton.
Speaker 1: There's so much that flows through There's so many through lines. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Clay Hilton, Sorry, continue, but I mean Harball I feel
Speaker 1: when I think horriball, the first thing that comes to
Speaker 1: mind is he. First off, he got a lot of
Speaker 1: mileage out of Andrew Luck. Sure, I think he's a
Speaker 1: great coach, don't get me wrong, but he got a
Speaker 1: lot of mileage. A lot of notoriety out of what
Speaker 1: he did with Andrew Luck at Stanford, and throughout the
Speaker 1: course of his coaching career, he's been able to parlay
Speaker 1: success at one spot over a short haul into a
Speaker 1: job at another spot that would presumably pay him more.
Speaker 1: Is that fair?
Speaker 2: I man, I don't know. I think he was a
Speaker 2: freaking I'm not saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying not saying he wasn't a good coach.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he wasn't good coach.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a short all that was like
Speaker 2: seven years, eight years.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he was a bad coach. I think
Speaker 1: he's a really good coach. Okay, and I still have
Speaker 1: some bit of faith in him at Michigan though it's dwindled.
Speaker 1: That's weird, but continue it's led. Yeah, but I feel
Speaker 1: like the guy has just jumped around so much that
Speaker 1: unfortunately that sort of overshadows the fact that he's a
Speaker 1: good coach. He's just been everywhere at this point.
Speaker 2: Isn't it a masterclass on like self branding and branding
Speaker 2: just in general.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's definitely got a good agent.
Speaker 2: There is Well, he's got a good agent, But I
Speaker 2: think it's more h totally and completely adhering to an
Speaker 2: identity that you build for yourself. Right, It's how many
Speaker 2: times has the word toughness been written about Michigan football
Speaker 2: and about Jim Harbor and the forty nine ers in
Speaker 2: Stanford and all the big offensive linemen and running the
Speaker 2: ball in physicality, line of scrimmage, Like, there is an
Speaker 2: element of Jim Harbaugh's repeatability that we criticize programs for saying,
Speaker 2: what is the identity? What are they trying to be?
Speaker 2: What are they trying to recruit to, what are they
Speaker 2: trying to hire to? And although Jim Harbaugh has shifted
Speaker 2: Michigan somewhat in terms of I guess offensive identity, whenever
Speaker 2: you listen to him speak, there's a degree of seriousness
Speaker 2: and the Michigan man and we are going to play
Speaker 2: the right way. And there is that idea of I mean,
Speaker 2: he wears khakis, he wears lemon, but I know he's
Speaker 2: up to the and I think he switched away from
Speaker 2: the last year, right, he didn't wear the khakis, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I believe so. I think he went to a darker,
Speaker 2: darker pan. I don't know if it was a Chino.
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you the exact cut, but there is
Speaker 2: that that seriousness to Jim Harbor, and it can be
Speaker 2: whatever it is. But I think the masterclass of what
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh could teach is picking a lane and never wavering,
Speaker 2: driving from coast to coast on the same interstate. And
Speaker 2: there is something that if you can sell a group
Speaker 2: of people a like mind, if you can find a
Speaker 2: like minded group of people, they're going to buy in
Speaker 2: because they're going to aspire to be the same as
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh from day one until this very
Speaker 2: second is Jim Harbaugh. The adaptability is not there, but
Speaker 2: there is something strangely impressive about this is who I am.
Speaker 2: I'm not wavering, and there's a lot of people out
Speaker 2: there who want to not waiver with me. Now, maybe
Speaker 2: there are fewer people in the world of Michigan football,
Speaker 2: but there is something about branding and identity to Jim
Speaker 2: Harbaugh specifically, that is a talent that if you watch
Speaker 2: a Jim Harbaugh team at Stanford, and you watch a
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh team from the middle era of Michigan football,
Speaker 2: you watch it you know Jim Harbaugh team and even
Speaker 2: though it was Colin Kaepernick, and they were running the
Speaker 2: quarterback a lot more. There was still that element of
Speaker 2: knowing what you're going to get from a Jim Harbaugh
Speaker 2: team that anybody when I say Jim Harbough team, people
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. For better or worse. Sometimes it's
Speaker 2: a good thing, sometimes it's not so good thing. But
Speaker 2: there is a talent in stamping your name next to
Speaker 2: an ideal, and that's what Jim Harbor has.
Speaker 1: Well. Well, I mean, look, the guy played in the
Speaker 1: NFL for fourteen years. Played in the NFL for fourteen years,
Speaker 1: and you know, bounced around a bit, but at the
Speaker 1: same time kind of made his mark as a quarterback.
Speaker 1: And I take your point. Sure, this is going to
Speaker 1: be year seven at Michigan, but he was like three
Speaker 1: years at San Diego, four years at Stanford, four years
Speaker 1: with the Niners. This is the longest he's been anywhere.
Speaker 1: So I think I can make the case that it's
Speaker 1: been short stints that got him. Short successful stints, mind you,
Speaker 1: that got him to this stage where now he's with Michigan.
Speaker 1: The branding aspect of this, though, the personal branding aspect
Speaker 1: of this wearing cleats a branding aspect of this, though,
Speaker 1: I think Woomb's pretty large, and I think there are
Speaker 1: probably a lot of Michigan fans who feel like they
Speaker 1: didn't get what they bargained for with him. He was
Speaker 1: supposed to be the savior who came in and made
Speaker 1: Michigan football what it's always supposed to be and hasn't
Speaker 1: done that yet.
Speaker 2: That's fine, This is not a commentary on that necessarily,
Speaker 2: But is there something that, especially if I were to
Speaker 2: ask solid wife Kate, like, what is what has Tie
Speaker 2: branded himself with that is the most unwavering tie thing
Speaker 2: there is? Oh gosh, do you have an answer? Would
Speaker 2: she have an answer? Like the way you wire up
Speaker 2: a security camera at your house, what you travel with?
Speaker 2: Is there anything like that?
Speaker 1: That's probably what we talked about a few shows ago,
Speaker 1: the same jokes over and over again. I'd say, that's.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, oh yeah, well that's marriage. That's marriage.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I the one thing I can think
Speaker 2: of that is and I mean, I admit it's ridiculous
Speaker 2: and so aggressive, but I do bring earplugs to it.
Speaker 2: That like the old Man branding that I have stamped
Speaker 2: on my You're seventy years old secretly is so severe? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is I just I'm not going to blow out my
Speaker 2: ears for living on a prayer. I'm just not.
Speaker 1: I want to throw out a Scott Frost.
Speaker 2: Scott Frost, Okay, masterclass. It's narrative, right, I think so,
Speaker 2: I think so, you know. And the reason I guess
Speaker 2: I throw out Frost is because we talked about Jim
Speaker 2: Harball and the personal branding and using previous success to
Speaker 2: get to.
Speaker 1: It's alma mater. Frost isn't all that dissimilar. It's just
Speaker 1: been a shorter road to get back in a brand asca.
Speaker 1: He didn't have quite the success that Harball had obviously,
Speaker 1: just because Harball was doing it longer. But now we're
Speaker 1: in this stage with uh like, shall we call it
Speaker 1: late stage Scott Frost at Nebraska where it does feel
Speaker 1: like the natives are getting a little restless. Initially there was
Speaker 1: an excitement that I think he brought with him to Lincoln.
Speaker 1: I worry that that's warn't awful a little bit at
Speaker 1: this point, and it's just a bunch of skeptical fans.
Speaker 1: So if you're Scott Frost, if you're making the online course,
Speaker 1: what are you selling at this point? Is it. Is
Speaker 1: it just you know, crafting the perfect narrative? What is
Speaker 1: it to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean maybe it's not narrative. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: think what it is. Is it that he did a
Speaker 2: really good job. I mean, he succeeded at UCF. Is
Speaker 2: there an element of drafting off of Chip Kelly?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 2: I mean, that's not really a repeatable. It's not like
Speaker 2: you can take a master class on saying I was
Speaker 2: Chip Kelly's offensive coordinator or receivers coach, and I'm running
Speaker 2: the Chip Kelly offense and succeeded at UCF, It'll succeed
Speaker 2: at Nebraska.
Speaker 1: I think there is We can take this one of
Speaker 1: two directions. Are we assuming that Scott Frost is going
Speaker 1: to be a successful coach or are we assuming that
Speaker 1: he is trading off of his former value at this point,
Speaker 1: because you can go two distinctly different directions.
Speaker 2: Right now UCF is too much. UCF is now in
Speaker 2: its second coach and second tenure since Scott Frost Gus Malson.
Speaker 2: So I think that rear view mirror is probably a
Speaker 2: little bit too severe in terms of distance. So right
Speaker 2: now Scott Frost is trading on I think the narrative
Speaker 2: thing has probably it's probably a little bit too thin.
Speaker 2: So the master class has to be that he is
Speaker 2: this young, offensive gu still and maybe it's an element
Speaker 2: of the fact that he is like a young in
Speaker 2: shape guy, so he gets the benefit of the doubt
Speaker 2: of like he's the smartest kid in the room. He's
Speaker 2: a wounder. Linder kings that a German thing that you
Speaker 2: probably can translate for me. I think he is trading
Speaker 2: on that a little bit. That there is still this
Speaker 2: element to not just here's what I did at UCF,
Speaker 2: but you know I started succeeding at a young age.
Speaker 2: I brought this program back, you know, inherited some, recruited some,
Speaker 2: and you know, like hired well whatever it was at UCF.
Speaker 2: That there is there is a branding element to him
Speaker 2: as well, and a lot of it might not even
Speaker 2: be his doing. It's just you look at him and
Speaker 2: there is that element of I have worked with these
Speaker 2: offensive gurus, I have had success offensively, So there is
Speaker 2: an element of hope and potential because of age and
Speaker 2: vague history. What that master class is. I think that's
Speaker 2: where it goes to the narrative, where it's the narra
Speaker 2: that's the offensive Wounderkin narrative. I think you got a match,
Speaker 2: He'll tell you in his masterclass. Got to strike quickly.
Speaker 2: It's gotta happen quickly. If you want to make some cash,
Speaker 2: you got to pick the right place to go when
Speaker 2: your reputation is at its highest. Because if you are
Speaker 2: a hot offensive coordinator, say a Lincoln Riley at ECU,
Speaker 2: don't take a big offensive coordinator at a coordinator job somewhere.
Speaker 1: Don't go.
Speaker 2: Don't take a Perdue job. Don't take an Iowa job.
Speaker 2: Don't take even a Texas Tech job. No Texas techs.
Speaker 2: That's some huge offenses. I take that one back, But
Speaker 2: don't take a job that's going to set you up
Speaker 2: with money but not necessarily clear success. And so Lincoln
Speaker 2: Riley making the move to Oklahoma as an offensive coordinator
Speaker 2: is the sort of know where you fit, where you
Speaker 2: set up best for success. And Scott Frost making that
Speaker 2: UCF move was I mean, it was.
Speaker 1: A brilliant that was the master class. Maybe that was.
Speaker 2: The master class. And now it's just you know when
Speaker 2: actors get a little bit older where they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't really want to do deep impact, but they're
Speaker 2: offering me eight point two million dollars. There is that
Speaker 2: element of you sometimes you just you got it, got
Speaker 2: to grab the opportunity once you've proven yourself, even if
Speaker 2: that opportunity isn't necessarily set up for just need one
Speaker 2: big hit.
Speaker 1: You just need one big hit and then your set.
Speaker 2: I'm actually positive Florida is pretty happy they did not
Speaker 2: go in this or Scott Frost did not want to
Speaker 2: go in the Gator direction.
Speaker 1: All right, well, I was gonna say we could go
Speaker 1: Dan Mullen. Actually I want to go Kirby Smart, Kirby Smart.
Speaker 1: I want to go Kirby Smart. So Kirby Smart.
Speaker 2: It's pretty similar.
Speaker 1: Actually yeah, Kirby Smart for a long time was with
Speaker 1: Nick Saban. Of course left took over it. Georgia is
Speaker 1: I think, trying to build a similarly fashioned minded program
Speaker 1: and is obviously having some early gains here. He's been
Speaker 1: a huge success. Georgia, I think, is pretty happy with
Speaker 1: with what they've gotten out of him thus far. Kirby's
Speaker 1: kind of a low key guy, like I think generally
Speaker 1: when when you see him into interviews and stuff, kind
Speaker 1: of a madman on the sidelines. Not not dissimilar from
Speaker 1: many coaches on the sideline's kind of kind of a madman,
Speaker 1: to be clear.
Speaker 2: To be clear, when you say early gains, he's entering
Speaker 2: his sixty year it happens.
Speaker 1: Right, But had some success very quickly, sure, definitely, So
Speaker 1: there is that component of cashing in on your name.
Speaker 1: But he was at Alabama for a while, right, and
Speaker 1: he waited for the job that was best for him,
Speaker 1: that gave him, you know, the best chance of success
Speaker 1: at Georgia, job that he cleared al the water. Right.
Speaker 1: So it's not quite the same degree as a Scott Frost.
Speaker 1: It's much different in that aspect. When I think of
Speaker 1: Kirby Smart, I think I think defense. I think defense.
Speaker 1: He was a defensive minded coach. He came in right
Speaker 1: away at Georgie put together just a baller defense, and
Speaker 1: now they're trying to build that offense up around him.
Speaker 1: They obviously have parts that you know are exciting and excitable.
Speaker 1: But I think defense. I think the art of defense
Speaker 1: as the first thing when I think of Kirby Smart.
Speaker 1: So how do we extrapolate that out, unpack that skill
Speaker 1: into another masterclass?
Speaker 2: It might just be defense, I mean it's defense and
Speaker 2: recruiting it's how to be Diet Saban, because he has
Speaker 2: been quite adaptable on defense, the way that even his
Speaker 2: defenses at Alabama and now his defenses at Georgia have changed.
Speaker 2: I mentioned that I had watched one of his clinics
Speaker 2: and he talked about, you know, moving away from the
Speaker 2: sort of war daddy nose tackle types into getting much
Speaker 2: smaller and being able to go sideline to sideline and
Speaker 2: be able to run various defenses with you know, three
Speaker 2: down linemen and four down linemen and be able to
Speaker 2: adapt to any offense. And I think there's a certain
Speaker 2: degree of you look at any successful coach and they're
Speaker 2: able to adapt and they're able to see, you know,
Speaker 2: which way the wind is blowing. The problem is with
Speaker 2: Kirby Smart is the Diet Sabin element. With the way
Speaker 2: the quarterback room has been managed these past few years.
Speaker 2: You know, the sort of debacle with Justin Fields and
Speaker 2: Jake fromm and this past year. I mean, I excuse
Speaker 2: a lot with twenty twenty actually, but the offense was
Speaker 2: it got to be a pretty stale offense under Jim Cheney,
Speaker 2: especially in bigger games. So in terms of masterclass with
Speaker 2: Kirby Smart, I would say it would be Kirby Smart
Speaker 2: Colin putting most of it together, putting putting most of
Speaker 2: it together, and maybe it's put build most of your
Speaker 2: project and maybe call it a task rabbit.
Speaker 1: A Have you ever done a task rabbit?
Speaker 2: I think Jody did when she was living alone in
Speaker 2: New York for building some furniture or something like that
Speaker 2: before I knew her.
Speaker 1: I don't think I have, And I wish they had
Speaker 1: a better name for it. I feel like a task
Speaker 1: rabbit is such a demeaning title. It is like a
Speaker 1: door dasher is like dashers are reindeer, you know, like
Speaker 1: you can feel good, but a task rabbit just feels
Speaker 1: so demeaning. And it isn't. It isn't at all. But
Speaker 1: I just I wish they had better branding. Maybe they
Speaker 1: could take the Jim Harbaugh course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I oh man. There is an element of Kirby
Speaker 2: Smart is it's just how to raise expectations and coast
Speaker 2: for as long as possible, Because he raised the expectations
Speaker 2: in George after taking that team to an SEC title
Speaker 2: in a national championship game and getting to what overtime
Speaker 2: an overtime period away from winning the national Championship. And
Speaker 2: now they've just sort of plateau the art of the plateau.
Speaker 2: Kirby smarkhole in the Art of the Plateau.
Speaker 1: All right, your turn. Where are we going next?
Speaker 2: Uh, let's do. Let's do James Franklin master class. CA.
Speaker 1: Okay, good one, good one.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Franks.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Franks slate game, James near win jim Yeah, definitely
Speaker 1: not clock management. This is we know clock management will
Speaker 1: not be his master class, James frank The people who
Speaker 1: really dislike James Franklin, I think he's a snake oil salesman.
Speaker 1: He's a snake oil salesman. That it's I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that to be the case either, but
Speaker 1: I am. I'm going somewhere with this, so just hang
Speaker 1: with me. The people who really don't like him think
Speaker 1: he's a snake oil salesman and that when the rubber
Speaker 1: really meets the road, he's all hat, no cattle, it's
Speaker 1: just all bark, no bite. He's he's a snake oil salesman, right,
Speaker 1: He's he's a wizard of oz.
Speaker 2: Well, he's he's very charming, right in his press conferences
Speaker 2: and his quotes. Yeah, yeah, you're inspiring, he's charming, he
Speaker 2: appears to be a good dude from afar publicly.
Speaker 1: I yes, And I know people in media who felt
Speaker 1: similarly about Franklin, that he was snake oil salesman, that
Speaker 1: it was it was inauthentic, and that you know, eventually
Speaker 1: that will come back to bite him. A lot of
Speaker 1: those folks have actually changed their tune on him.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it's success.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's you know, just getting to
Speaker 1: know the guy better over the years. But I have
Speaker 1: been I've been pleasantly surprised by some of those folks
Speaker 1: who have told me that they change their tune on him.
Speaker 1: And it's more than one, it's a couple. So with
Speaker 1: that said, I don't think that's an angle, but I
Speaker 1: do think it's notable because that charm is real, and
Speaker 1: I think something of like maybe he steals away the
Speaker 1: art of persuasion away from Daniel pink On, the actual master.
Speaker 2: I mean, does it also fall under how to win
Speaker 2: friends and influence?
Speaker 1: But it does, it does. He's just a master recruiter.
Speaker 1: He has very quickly built Penn State back up into
Speaker 1: a regular conversation piece in the Big ten, what he
Speaker 1: did with organizing the parts around trades, Bic Sorely and
Speaker 1: Saquon Barkley, bringing in defensive talent, like he has absolutely
Speaker 1: infused that program with talent. You know on the line,
Speaker 1: they've gotten better tight end tight end, tight end has
Speaker 1: been a thing, Like they really have just gotten just
Speaker 1: a different order of magnitude better under his tutelage. So
Speaker 1: I think, more more than anything, it's around the recruiting game.
Speaker 1: It's about going into living rooms. It's about winning over
Speaker 1: hearts and minds and getting people to commit to Penn State,
Speaker 1: winning the state, dominating the state. As he said in
Speaker 1: his introductory press conference, that above all else is what
Speaker 1: he is best at. So however we package that into
Speaker 1: part of this offering, we can discuss. But that is
Speaker 1: his thing, that is what he is best at.
Speaker 2: I think there's an element of surrounding himself with the
Speaker 2: best he possibly can and I know your boy, Kirk
Speaker 2: Shiaka this year didn't necessarily fall into that category in
Speaker 2: terms of how the offense produced in a very strange
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. By and large, he's done since his early
Speaker 2: days a pretty good job of hiring coaches and coordinators
Speaker 2: and finding the best fits. I think what Bob Shoop
Speaker 2: did a pretty good job for Penn State. Brent Prye
Speaker 2: has done a pretty good job for Penn State. Ricky
Speaker 2: Ronnie was not amazing after Joe Morehead, but Joe Morehead
Speaker 2: was incredible for Penn State. And I think expectations are
Speaker 2: pretty high for Mike. You're sick. I think there is
Speaker 2: that ability. I think how to surround. I think there
Speaker 2: is a talent in building up the people around you,
Speaker 2: building up your circle, and recognizing and knowing what you
Speaker 2: don't know. There are a lot of coaches who have
Speaker 2: an offensive background. What James Franklin was what the Maryland
Speaker 2: coach in waiting for alf Regent, And he could have
Speaker 2: just as easily said I've got this background on offense.
Speaker 2: I could be Chip Kelly or Tom Herman or any
Speaker 2: of these guys that came into these head coaching jobs,
Speaker 2: Gus Malson or saying I'm calling plays. I got here
Speaker 2: because of my offensive acumen. But James Franklin, after you
Speaker 2: know the was it. Bob Donovan was his first Excuse me,
Speaker 2: not Bob do Ye, John Donovan. Yeah, They're sorry. There
Speaker 2: is that element to James Franklin and saying I'm always
Speaker 2: going to have a list of guys who are impressing
Speaker 2: me elsewhere, and when a position opens up, I know
Speaker 2: who I'm calling. I know this seven calls I'm going
Speaker 2: to make on any level. There is that element to
Speaker 2: James Franklin I think has really helped, and it's that
Speaker 2: people person element to him. It seems that has convinced
Speaker 2: these guys because you can look at a number of
Speaker 2: huge schools that have made these like really questionable and
Speaker 2: sort of LIMP coordinator.
Speaker 1: Hires, limp coordinator hires where it just sort of leaves
Speaker 1: you like again we come back to John Donovan.
Speaker 2: John Donovan. Yeah it's not John Donovan, but there are
Speaker 2: places everywhere you're just like, man, I just what, my god,
Speaker 2: Kansas is hiring who. It's just there's just that element
Speaker 2: to it. Cal is hiring who, like USC is hiring who.
Speaker 2: Minnesota is hiring who. And by and large, I want
Speaker 2: to say I'd give him credit for saying, this guy
Speaker 2: has produced everywhere he's gone. This guy is in intriguing,
Speaker 2: this guy resonates with people. He's creative, His defense or
Speaker 2: his offense is creative. I think that's probably the genius
Speaker 2: of James Franklin is surrounding himself with smart, capable people.
Speaker 1: So there's a Dabo Sweeney component to this. Sure, absolutely
Speaker 1: if we assume, if we assume Dabbo is doing the
Speaker 1: people pleaser type course, how to you know, compartmentalise I
Speaker 1: think we agreed on.
Speaker 2: I think Dabo has done worse in that department publicly
Speaker 2: this past year than James.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. But I think the
Speaker 1: Dabo Sweeney course is one that you give to perspective
Speaker 1: coaches or politicians. I think the one that I mean
Speaker 1: James Franklin could absolutely be a politician, that's part of
Speaker 1: the job. But for sure, I think James Franklin's course
Speaker 1: is targeted more at like HR professionals building the winning
Speaker 1: team for both from the outside and within.
Speaker 2: What about coach ol Oh?
Speaker 1: God?
Speaker 2: What is the master class of Coach Oh? Is it
Speaker 2: him selling himself as a local? I mean, it's it's branding,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the relentless, it's the sort of you know,
Speaker 2: his voice is different, there's a certain amount of charm
Speaker 2: to you know, Tagos every single interview he does. What
Speaker 2: is it about coach O that differentiates himself. Now you
Speaker 2: can use the adaptability as well. Obviously, you know with
Speaker 2: his low points at Ole Miss and you know how
Speaker 2: down he was personally after not getting the USC job
Speaker 2: when he was the interim twice.
Speaker 1: I think I have one for.
Speaker 2: Him moving to the spread. What is it? What is
Speaker 2: the coach oh master class?
Speaker 1: Coach oh masterclass is the art of admitting defeat. It
Speaker 1: is the art of admitting defeat. Because Coach Owe's most
Speaker 1: successful season are you will be his most successful season
Speaker 1: in his entire career was what he did with Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2: And of course, I mean it's the most successful season
Speaker 2: of yeah right, for sure.
Speaker 1: But what he did before that season was he completely
Speaker 1: nuked the offense. They went with that Joe Brady system.
Speaker 1: I mean, it revitalized Joe Burrow, It turned him into
Speaker 1: the first overall pick. He really did an about face
Speaker 1: and got away from the old ushered in the new.
Speaker 1: It worked really, really well. But there have been times
Speaker 1: throughout the course of Coacho's career as a coach where
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they didn't have quite that level of success.
Speaker 1: There was a USC thing, right, I mean, he came in,
Speaker 1: he made his mark, the team loved him and he
Speaker 1: made a strong case to stick around. It didn't work out,
Speaker 1: but he was able to build from that on some level.
Speaker 1: Admit defeat, move on, move back up through the ranks,
Speaker 1: and eventually eventually get this job with Elis You again
Speaker 1: on the ropes at LSU, had to reinvent himself, was
Speaker 1: able to go out, change that offensive system, have a
Speaker 1: general once in a generation season, win a national championship,
Speaker 1: and now he's going to be forced to do it again.
Speaker 1: In some sense. Last year was not a good year
Speaker 1: for multitude of reasons. The lost a ton of guys
Speaker 1: at injuries, that guys opt out, pandemic, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: you know the drill. But he's again trying to retool
Speaker 1: that offense, trying to start anew in the SEC West.
Speaker 1: We'll see if he can do it. He did do
Speaker 1: it once. But I think the story of Coacho has
Speaker 1: been finding ways to basically reinvent yourself. First off, admit defeat,
Speaker 1: reinvent yourself and rebrand and just make it happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, strictly in terms of football, because obviously there have
Speaker 2: been some concerns surrounding co Show recently with how he
Speaker 2: has conducted himself as like a CEO of human within
Speaker 2: the LSU program, but strictly within football. There is an
Speaker 2: element to the way LSU has improved. Now we are
Speaker 2: in the shadow of him making two kind of disastrous hires.
Speaker 2: Now the quarterback injuries aside, because that played a huge
Speaker 2: role in the offensive struggles thet least part of the
Speaker 2: back half or the majority of the season when Miles
Speaker 2: Brennan went down, but a completely disastrous defensive coordinator higher
Speaker 2: that is at odds with me saying relentless attention to
Speaker 2: improving LSU's program, whether it's you know, raising money or
Speaker 2: getting what is the corporate term when you want to
Speaker 2: add people to a team, like you want to get
Speaker 2: more bodies? Is that a thing you want to at
Speaker 2: you want to have you heard that terminology like I
Speaker 2: need more bodies in this department or something like that,
Speaker 2: Like he has in terms of like the analysts, in
Speaker 2: terms of the guys in the program bringing in advise augmentation, yeah,
Speaker 2: staff augmentation, that kind of thing. There is an element
Speaker 2: to ed Orgeron looking around on the college football landscape
Speaker 2: and saying, if LSU wants to compete at the highest level,
Speaker 2: we need a B and C. And I think his
Speaker 2: relentless sales job to his bosses and to the money,
Speaker 2: the money connected to LSU, the money, the people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: please do. I think there's a relentlessness to ed Orgeron
Speaker 2: when it comes to that football program that has served
Speaker 2: him and that program extremely well. But also it has
Speaker 2: served the program, as we're finding out, somewhat to the
Speaker 2: detriment of the program. That there's a relentlessness that is
Speaker 2: generally controlled but not always controlled. And if you read
Speaker 2: Bruce Feldman's meat Market, there's relentlessness to his recruiting and
Speaker 2: his drive and the red bulls, and you know, just
Speaker 2: the constant pressure he puts on himself to secure commitments
Speaker 2: from prospects that I think in terms of again that
Speaker 2: our word relentlessness might be unmatched in the sport.
Speaker 1: That.
Speaker 2: Does that strike a chord with you?
Speaker 1: Think? So?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: I think you do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, hasn't always served him well, or that program well,
Speaker 2: or his players well, or the LSU campus well, but
Speaker 2: there's a relentlessness.
Speaker 1: To I agree with that. Okay, you want one more name,
Speaker 1: I'm named out.
Speaker 2: You're named out. Okay, let's do have we done? Anybody
Speaker 2: in the Big twelve. Yet, oh yeah, we did Matt Campbell.
Speaker 2: You just give me a conference that we haven't hit
Speaker 2: hard enough. We did Penn State and we did Michigan.
Speaker 2: We haven't done anybody in the Oh No, we did
Speaker 2: Scott Frost as well in the Big ten. So we're
Speaker 2: tapped out Big ten. ACC. We did Dabbo, anybody else
Speaker 2: in the ACC you want to Hell.
Speaker 1: We could do Justin Fialente. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's high profile enough. I had him on the show.
Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be high profile.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that course would be that he
Speaker 1: would teach. At this point. Mac Brown could be interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do masterclass mac Brown.
Speaker 1: Mac Brown checks a lot of these boxes, actually, a
Speaker 1: lot of these boxes adaptability. When I think of mac
Speaker 1: Brown now, I think of a second wind. I think
Speaker 1: of a guy who was out of the game for
Speaker 1: a while. There was a lot of skepticism on him
Speaker 1: coming back after all these years to coach at North Carolina,
Speaker 1: a place where he had previously been. Thus far that
Speaker 1: has yielded great results. There's no other way to look
Speaker 1: at it. So I think what I'd like to tap
Speaker 1: into here is and there may actually be a masterclass
Speaker 1: about this, but sort of the artist staying current. You know,
Speaker 1: there is an adaptability aspect to this, for sure, but
Speaker 1: you also need to be plugged in constantly if you
Speaker 1: want to be able to relate on the same level
Speaker 1: as your players, players, as he would say, plurers. So
Speaker 1: there's something there. There's some aspect to Mac there that
Speaker 1: we could unpack. Of course, there's a whole politician side
Speaker 1: of Mac.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say the gubernatorial drive I think might
Speaker 2: be the answer.
Speaker 1: The gubernatorial drive.
Speaker 2: Where it's memorizing every name you've ever come across, figuring
Speaker 2: out the degree of folksiness. And I mean, you're right
Speaker 2: that it does combine a number of the traits that
Speaker 2: we've identified in other coaches, where it's the adapt bit
Speaker 2: about Mac Brown's subtitle weaponizing your folksiness, that's pretty good.
Speaker 2: But it also I think is genuine from what I
Speaker 2: can tell from people who have spent time with him
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, that there is no I don't think
Speaker 2: there is that Phil Hartman Reagan dynamic. I think it
Speaker 2: has served him extremely well that he's so comfortable in
Speaker 2: his own skin. Maybe that's the masterclass, is skin comfort.
Speaker 2: And when I say that out loud. It does sound creepy.
Speaker 2: It's a little weird, but I think it is. I
Speaker 2: think it's a masterclass skin comfort, and I think that
Speaker 2: resonates with people on the recruiting trail. I think it
Speaker 2: resonates with media. Obviously he's played the media game. I
Speaker 2: think there is a certain degree and the reason why,
Speaker 2: you know, eventually it didn't work out of Texas just
Speaker 2: because it's a results oriented business. But the reason he
Speaker 2: got the time he got and the reason the patience
Speaker 2: was dealt to him by the broader Texas administration whatever,
Speaker 2: is because everybody loves him. And so there is that
Speaker 2: that skin comfort that mac Brown has used to navigate
Speaker 2: the sport that might even be unmatched in the sport,
Speaker 2: and the way that some other guys have these like
Speaker 2: top tier traits.
Speaker 1: Well, it's been funding skin comfort, skin Comfort saverbogmail dot
Speaker 1: com is the email address. Appreciate everyone, ive us your
Speaker 1: master classes, give us, give us your master classes. We'll
Speaker 1: put this out there on social media. I would expect
Speaker 1: we're going to get some fun results. And for ballers
Speaker 1: dot com of course, where you can find the Patreon
Speaker 1: where you can get access to the discord, get access
Speaker 1: to some of the bonus stuff that we're doing here
Speaker 1: throughout the course of the offseason. Got an off topic
Speaker 1: show coming up pretty soon, by the way, two weeks.
Speaker 2: Certain caveat to all of this is, I mean it
Speaker 2: should almost go without saying, but if we're going to
Speaker 2: paint all of these coaches with the broadbrush and what
Speaker 2: we're saying, they're all full of shit, that's like, that's
Speaker 2: you can't be a good coach without being that. So
Speaker 2: that aside, those were the traits.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, fun show. We pulled it together at the
Speaker 1: last second. We hope you liked it as much as
Speaker 1: we did. Again, Solid Verbal dot Com is where you
Speaker 1: can find all of the stuff, all the content, follow
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Speaker 1: which I know I've promised before in the past that
Speaker 1: we're gonna use, but we really are going to be
Speaker 1: using it for some cool stuff here coming up in
Speaker 1: the next few months. So if you haven't gotten in yet,
Speaker 1: that's the that's the place to go to sign up
Speaker 1: and get the regular updates. Dan, So I got man.
Speaker 2: I think that's all I have.
Speaker 1: Cool again. You know the email solverbo at gmail dot
Speaker 1: com right in. Let us know what's on your mind.
Speaker 1: Enjoy the nicer.
Speaker 2: Weather, can I wink wink? Is that something I can do?
Speaker 1: Can you win? You can do whatever you want. It's
Speaker 1: your show.
Speaker 2: I just think that you Ty Hildenbrand and I Dan
Speaker 2: Rubinstein did a sort of how to themed show. There's
Speaker 2: more on that bone for us.
Speaker 1: There is more on that bone, isn't there?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, wink wink. So that guy over there, my good
Speaker 1: friend Dan Rubenstein for myself, Tie hlmo Brand, we will
Speaker 1: talk to you all soon. In the meantime, enjoy your weekend,
Speaker 1: Stay solid. M