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Speaker 1: Would you fucking eagle? I mean, eagles are hot, I think,

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Speaker 1: and they're endangered and like it could be your only chance.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of my adolescents fapping it to Greek mythology, and I

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Speaker 1: think I think you did too. No chance, no way, Um,

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Speaker 1: I won't say it, no, no, deny. Oh. We are

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Speaker 1: the muss goddesses of the arts and proclaims of heroes,

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Speaker 1: heroes like Hercules. I like, Well, we have been visited

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Speaker 1: by the muses and they have inspired us to talk

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Speaker 1: about Greek mythology, which is I think like one of

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Speaker 1: the earliest things we talked about doing on this podcast

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Speaker 1: because it's something that we both are obsessed with, obsessed

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Speaker 1: with and also just like is not in the culture

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Speaker 1: as much as it should be, you know, like it

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Speaker 1: is and it always has been. And I do think

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk today a little bit about how um,

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Speaker 1: Greek mythology is something that you know, artists are always

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Speaker 1: coming back to, always like breathing new life into because

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Speaker 1: of the universal nature of these stories. But we're really

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it all, from Hercules to you know,

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Speaker 1: Madeline Miller and everything in between because this is like

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Speaker 1: a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture

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Speaker 1: and in today's case, ancient pop culture. Today's takes. I'm

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Speaker 1: Rostamu and I'm Fran Toronto. Something I'm always scared of

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Speaker 1: is getting murdered in an Airbnb. Um. I'm not always

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Speaker 1: scared of getting murdered, because sometimes I'm like whatever, I'm

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Speaker 1: ready for the solid to be over. But airbnb is,

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Speaker 1: I think are particularly chilling. And that's why I liked

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Speaker 1: the premise of Barbarian, which friend and I just saw yesterday,

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Speaker 1: because it does run with that idea of when you

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Speaker 1: go stay at someone's house, you never really know whose

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Speaker 1: house you're staying in. And also the people who own

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Speaker 1: the kind of homes that are turned into Airbnbs don't

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Speaker 1: even really necessarily know what homes they're living in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you haven't watched the trailer to Barbarian, you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: get the premise immediately. But it's just so in real life,

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Speaker 1: like it is a real thing that could happen to

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Speaker 1: you when you book an Airbnb. And and now I'm

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Speaker 1: terrified of airbnbs, And honestly, I just hope that this

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Speaker 1: continues to irreparably damage Airbnb as a corporation. Like, I

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Speaker 1: think that we should make more horror films and TV

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Speaker 1: shows that make us scared of booking Airbnb. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: for the Virgin spoiler alert, we're gonna talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about Barbarian here. So Barbarian is about a woman

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Speaker 1: who rents an Airbnb. It turns out someone is staying there.

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Speaker 1: It's built ours guard a k. A. Pennywise, who is

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Speaker 1: really hot also terrifying. Yeah, I think he's hotter as

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Speaker 1: Pennywise to be honest um, And he's like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: it's fine, Like let's both stay here, and then some

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Speaker 1: weird ship happens in the house. She goes to investigate,

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Speaker 1: finds this secret basement that leads to another secret basement,

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Speaker 1: another secret basement. Literally is like it's a comically scary hallway.

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Speaker 1: It's like, actually, like something that could be so simple

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Speaker 1: and so cliche in a canon of horror films, but

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Speaker 1: like it's so well done and really scary. Yes, And

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Speaker 1: the more I have sat with it, the more I

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Speaker 1: have really liked it and thought it was a really

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Speaker 1: good movie and really well done. The parts in the

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Speaker 1: basement we're kind of reminding me of have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen The Descent? I haven't, one of my favorite horror movies.

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Speaker 1: It's so scary, and the scariest part of it to

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Speaker 1: me is the claustrophobia of them being underground, not even

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Speaker 1: really the monsters. I thought the lead actress was really good.

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Speaker 1: She was very funny, and this was like one of

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Speaker 1: her I mean, she's done a handful of horror and

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Speaker 1: action of for but like, I think this was like

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Speaker 1: such a moment for her. Yeah. And I liked that

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Speaker 1: they introduced the Justin Long character, who was like a

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Speaker 1: horrible person and is by the end of the movie

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Speaker 1: more monstrous than the actual monster who is the monster

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Speaker 1: of the film. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and without giving too

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Speaker 1: much away, like something else that I love about that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, aside from the fact that like they make

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Speaker 1: this Airbnb like multi property manager seemed like a complete asshole,

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Speaker 1: which like we need more representation for like asshole airbnb

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Speaker 1: property managers. They they haven't had their they haven't had

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Speaker 1: their do um. But the if you watch the trailer

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Speaker 1: for the film, it sets you up to think that

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Speaker 1: the movie is going to be one thing, and then

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Speaker 1: the movie drastically changes twice and kind of almost switches

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Speaker 1: protagonists for a moment, and um, I just think that

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Speaker 1: that is something that I will always want to watch,

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Speaker 1: what no matter the genre, like someone who is willing

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Speaker 1: to break the form of a film and like Foura

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Speaker 1: into something just because they really wanted to surprise the audience.

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Speaker 1: Because on its face, it's a pretty simple premise and

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Speaker 1: it's really just the way that it's executed that I

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Speaker 1: think elevates it to being a very good horror movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like honestly slightly less simple. Um, we're on a roll,

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Speaker 1: like in terms of scary movies this week, it's speaky season.

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Speaker 1: So Rose had been telling me to watch X, a

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Speaker 1: movie that came out how many months ago? It came

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Speaker 1: out earlier this year. It came out in the spring.

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Speaker 1: They shot it in New Zealand and had rented this

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Speaker 1: farm for a certain amount of time, and I guess

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Speaker 1: it took them not as long to shoot it as

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Speaker 1: I thought they did. So t West or Tie West,

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Speaker 1: however you pronounced his name and Mia Goth were like, wait,

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Speaker 1: let's also make a prequel film while we have the space,

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Speaker 1: and he and Mia Goth wrote it together, which is

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Speaker 1: did they write it on Saturday. Did they just kind

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Speaker 1: of figure out I think they. I think I think

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Speaker 1: they wrote it during their their quarantine before filming, and

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Speaker 1: it has now been announced there's going to be a

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Speaker 1: third film. Max Sine um I. Maxine is the character

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Speaker 1: that Mia Goth plays a X, the corn star character

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Speaker 1: who survives. She's the final girly. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: really good filmmaker muse situation where they they clearly work

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Speaker 1: very well together, because I will say I really loved

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Speaker 1: X when I watched it a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and then I loved Pearl even more. Yeah, okay, Mia

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Speaker 1: Goth as a muse. I think it's the perfect way

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Speaker 1: of explaining why both of these movies shine so hard.

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Speaker 1: Um okay. So X is basically about a film crew

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Speaker 1: that is shooting a porno. They want to rent a farm.

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Speaker 1: The farm happens to be inhabited by two of the oldest,

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Speaker 1: creepiest people you've ever seen in your entire life. They're

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Speaker 1: so old that they look like corpses, and the movie,

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Speaker 1: without revealing these like the older woman Pearl to you

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Speaker 1: too far in advance, is able to build a dramatic

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Speaker 1: tension that is like so weird and so specific and

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Speaker 1: like fully reliant on like how eerie she looks and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, but also how eerie she acts, because I

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Speaker 1: don't think old people are you know, creepy in and

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Speaker 1: of themselves, but Pearl throughout the movie wants the youth

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Speaker 1: that these people possess. Like first, she tries to fuck

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Speaker 1: like literally everyone there, and they're all like, you're disgusting,

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Speaker 1: and so then she decides to kill them all except

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Speaker 1: for Miagoth's character Maxine, who the creepiest scene in the

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Speaker 1: movie is when she gets into bed with her Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, it scared me. But also the movie I

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Speaker 1: thought was also really funny. Brittney Snow, Britney Snow, you

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Speaker 1: will always be famous Britney Snow tour. In this film,

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Speaker 1: she was a revelation. Her cover of Landslide was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Um kid Cutty was great. Also, that girl Jenna Ortega,

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Speaker 1: who's in literally everything, was in this I thought her

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Speaker 1: death scene was pretty satisfying. And the gag of the

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Speaker 1: movie you don't know in advance um is that the

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Speaker 1: protagonist of the movie, Mia Goth, also plays the old

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Speaker 1: woman in prosthetics at the same time, so she is

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Speaker 1: simultaneously the hero and the villain of the story, which

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Speaker 1: I think is so brilliant and so Pearl. The movie

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Speaker 1: is a prequel of the older woman's character Pearl in

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Speaker 1: origin story and and finding out how she got to

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Speaker 1: this point of being this woman who clearly has a

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Speaker 1: life full of wasted dreams. And I thought, this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of movie that we don't see anymore. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a deeply psychological thriller, character study. It's

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Speaker 1: not even really a horror movie. It's not really that horrific.

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Speaker 1: But I thought it was fascinating. I loved the way

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Speaker 1: that they mimicked the technicolor movies of the wartime era.

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Speaker 1: Mia Goth was transcendent um. The scene with the scarecrow, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was that was That was crazy. A scene where

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Speaker 1: she kills the guy and yells at him and she's like,

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Speaker 1: she's like really, well done, so good and then her

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Speaker 1: he's so hot. Um. And then of course Mia goths

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Speaker 1: six minute monologue at the end, how did you know?

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Speaker 1: Six minutes? Is it? Like people are talking about it

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. Incredible And you know, we'll have to wait

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Speaker 1: and see what Maxine is like. But this might be

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing where the whole is better than

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Speaker 1: the some of its parts, and the some of its

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Speaker 1: parts are still really good. So I'm very excited to

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Speaker 1: see how it all shakes out. We have a new

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Speaker 1: episode of House of Dragon, and which holes were very

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Speaker 1: important because it opened with older rain Era giving birth

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Speaker 1: and then having to walk longer than I've ever walked

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Speaker 1: in my life up all those stairs, um, having just

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Speaker 1: given birth. This episode was really good. I really liked

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Speaker 1: the introduction of the new actors. What I am finding

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Speaker 1: with House to the Dragon, though, is that it has

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Speaker 1: a serious pacing problem. It is moving through this stuff

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Speaker 1: too fast. I keep seeing stuff on Twitter and on

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Speaker 1: TikTok of scenes that were cut. I think we could

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Speaker 1: have gotten so much more character development. I didn't like

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Speaker 1: that we never got to see any interaction between Rania

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Speaker 1: and Harwin Strong, who secretly her lover and the father

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Speaker 1: of her bastard children. Um. But this show, it continues

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Speaker 1: to be great and like it is Sunday night appointment television,

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Speaker 1: and everyone's acting is incredible. I really liked the introduction

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Speaker 1: of Emma to r C who plays older Ranira, and

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Speaker 1: their non binary which I love to see, and also

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Speaker 1: The actress who plays the younger Allison is queer, and

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Speaker 1: even said in an interview that she played Allison as

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Speaker 1: being in love with Rania. So I wow, that's so.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I as sometimes I hate like batty things.

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Speaker 1: But when it's like the actor saying that, not like

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Speaker 1: the creator like just trying for like pr or whatever, like,

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Speaker 1: I love that. I uh, I will agree and also

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Speaker 1: disagree about like the page Well, okay, I actually fully

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Speaker 1: agree with you on the pacing thing. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: watching this episode in particular, where we jump forward in time,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, what's your rush, Like, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get seven more seasons? I don't think we That's the

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Speaker 1: thing is. I think because they know of what happened

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Speaker 1: with Game of Thrones, I think this will be a

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Speaker 1: much more contained show, and I would imagine three. And

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Speaker 1: I think what they're rushing to get to is the

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Speaker 1: actual Dance of the Dragons, which is the Targarrian Civil War.

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Speaker 1: And so most of the season so far has been

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Speaker 1: spent setting up what's going to happen, because all of

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Speaker 1: the action of the Dance of the Dragons, like the

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Speaker 1: stuff that we're seeing happen now in the source material

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Speaker 1: is like one line, it's like this person died, this happened,

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Speaker 1: and most of the bulk of this is what happens

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Speaker 1: in the actual war. And I understand why they're rushing

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Speaker 1: because they know how soured people were on the way

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Speaker 1: Game of Thrones ended. But that being said, what Game

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Speaker 1: of Thrones always did so well with character development, and

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Speaker 1: they have done a really good job developing these characters.

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Speaker 1: It's just that they're doing it so fast, and I

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Speaker 1: wish there was a little more room to breathe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the reason I almost like disagree with you was because

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like the pacing is unsuccessful, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I don't watching it. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: even though it feels quote unquote rushed, like I don't

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Speaker 1: watch it and feel like, oh, I don't really know

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Speaker 1: who what this character wants are, Like, Like I don't

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Speaker 1: really I really wish I had seen you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? Like it's it earns the pace that it gives,

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Speaker 1: But I just think that it would be so much

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Speaker 1: fun to watch a lot of the things that they skipped.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's not that I don't like what I have,

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Speaker 1: It's that I want more of a good thing. And

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Speaker 1: also some things it's not that they feel unearned, but

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Speaker 1: like the way this episode ends with Lena Valerian instructing

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Speaker 1: her dragon to kill her because she knows she's going

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Speaker 1: to die from childbirth. Like it's an amazing scene. How

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Speaker 1: much more amazing would it have been if we had

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Speaker 1: spent that much more time with that character and really

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Speaker 1: understood what she and her family were losing. That being said,

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Speaker 1: I'm addicted. I you know, we will be watching next

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Speaker 1: Sunday as well. I really did not think I was

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Speaker 1: going to get addicted to, Like I thought that Rings

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Speaker 1: of Power was going to be my appointment TV. And

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Speaker 1: lo and behold, this is actually satiating the thing that

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Speaker 1: I want out of that show, which we're not. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to talk about that brings rings era Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll see. I mean, the thing about Rings of Power

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Speaker 1: is like they could make seven episodes and I will

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Speaker 1: watch them all. You know what I mean. But but

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just not that good. It's not that good.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of things that not that good. Um, we saw

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Speaker 1: don't worry Darling, and that was that was that was

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Speaker 1: a red herring transition because the gag of gags is

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Speaker 1: I actually really liked it. Well, I mean there's nuance

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Speaker 1: to that, there's nance to that. It's but I also

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Speaker 1: kind of like did quote unquote, but I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's how I felt when I left the theater. I

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Speaker 1: think I felt the way I felt when I left

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Speaker 1: the theater was the same as the guy that was

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Speaker 1: in our theater. When the credits role the movie ends,

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Speaker 1: there is two seconds of silence and you see a

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Speaker 1: guy walking already exiting the theater before the like right

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Speaker 1: as the credits roll, and he goes, what a piece

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Speaker 1: of shit? It was like a lot of very funny.

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Speaker 1: The whole audience left, but like that's but this is

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that is very exemplar or of

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Speaker 1: the whole thing around this movie. That guy did that

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Speaker 1: for the lull. That guy did that to be a troll,

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Speaker 1: And that is how everyone is interacting with this movie,

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Speaker 1: which actually, if there wasn't all of this drama build

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Speaker 1: up to it would have been perfectly fine. It's a

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Speaker 1: perfectly fine film. It's also what I will say is

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Speaker 1: I totally get what Harry Style said. It is a

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Speaker 1: movie that feels like a movie. It's that kind of

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Speaker 1: like go to the theater and watch a movie movie

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Speaker 1: he spelled. It is like that. Okay. I think that

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Speaker 1: the things that worked. Olivia Wilde's directing was very good.

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Speaker 1: It's a beautiful movie. The music is great. Some of

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Speaker 1: the things that aren't good are the right script, the

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Speaker 1: script which Olivia Wilde didn't write. I saw some interesting

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Speaker 1: TikTok's which were about how this movie there. This was

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Speaker 1: a story that Olivia Wilde brought and her writing partner rewrote.

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Speaker 1: And in the original it's much less feminist, and um,

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Speaker 1: the originals less feminist. Yes, the original does what I

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Speaker 1: wish this movie had done, which is that you know

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Speaker 1: much earlier in the story about the reveal which spoiler

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Speaker 1: alert if you haven't seen, don't worry darling. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: can we back up actually, because like I um feel

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Speaker 1: like despite the months of like controversy we've had around

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Speaker 1: this film, no one actually knows what it's about. And

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Speaker 1: like I think that if you don't know what it's about,

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Speaker 1: it's basically like a kind of intention community called the

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Speaker 1: Victory Project is living in a nineteen fifties esque kind

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Speaker 1: of like community where the husbands go off to work.

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Speaker 1: You don't really know what they're doing all day, and

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Speaker 1: the wife stay at home, and they've all agreed to

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Speaker 1: be a part of this constructed cultish community that is

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Speaker 1: kind of in the middle of the desert. Question Mark

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Speaker 1: and Florence, It's it's giving. Joshua Tree actually, like basically,

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Speaker 1: Florence Pew carries the dramatic tension of this film by

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Speaker 1: kind of starting to notice an investi the things that

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Speaker 1: are like off or weird about this community. And that's

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Speaker 1: basically which which is the inciting incident of this is

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Speaker 1: that one of her friends in the community, played by

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Speaker 1: Kiki Lane, has suffered what seems to be some kind

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Speaker 1: of mental break And UM, I bring this up because

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Speaker 1: the latest round of drama in all this is that

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Speaker 1: Kiki Lane recently posted on Instagram that she was cut

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Speaker 1: from most of the movie. Um, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: fucked considering that she's one of the names on the

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Speaker 1: poster and yet she hasn't been involved in any of

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Speaker 1: the press, but she was used to sell this movie,

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Speaker 1: and I do have to wonder if that's because she's

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Speaker 1: the only notable black lead and so even though her

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Speaker 1: part was cut down to almost nothing and very much

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Speaker 1: kind of fills the stereotype of being the like magical

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Speaker 1: black person who sets the white protagonist on their journey

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Speaker 1: of self discovery. She was cut from this movie but

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Speaker 1: was still used to sell it, and I'm glad she

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Speaker 1: posted about it because when she did, I was like,

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Speaker 1: you can tell that she was cut, Like there is god.

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to get into the weeds to

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Speaker 1: be honest, Like, as you said, this is the inciting incident.

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Speaker 1: And there's a moment where Florence is like, my friend

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Speaker 1: died spoiler alert, my friend, Like this happened to my friend.

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Speaker 1: It's like, actually, like there's nothing in the movie that

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Speaker 1: would suggest that you were friends, like really, like like

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Speaker 1: she called, you were like a lot of things rather

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Speaker 1: than being shown Yes, it's very stupid. Um, I felt

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Speaker 1: like the ending is such a fart that I couldn't

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Speaker 1: in totality enjoy what the movie was giving us. Well,

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Speaker 1: they felt like it was so lazy and cliche and

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Speaker 1: not earned. Well, this is going back to what I

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Speaker 1: said before, which is that I really believe that the

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Speaker 1: twist at the end of this movie, and spoiler alert

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Speaker 1: again for anyone who hasn't seen it, what's revealed is

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Speaker 1: that the victory Project is a simulation that has been

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Speaker 1: created by like Jordan's Peterson esque in cells to trap

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Speaker 1: women in and so their their literal partners. Well not always,

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Speaker 1: because they do. Say when Harry Styles is out in

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Speaker 1: the real world and is like getting into it, they're like,

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Speaker 1: pick a woman who you have some kind of existing

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Speaker 1: relationship with, so it could be you know, your girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: your wife, it could be just like a friend of yours,

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Speaker 1: and they're they're kidnapping these women and putting them in

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Speaker 1: a simulation. The men have to care for these women

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Speaker 1: and it's funny. So Fran sent me a voice memo

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Speaker 1: last night asking me about some of this stuff, like

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Speaker 1: how the women piss and ship in the simulations if

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Speaker 1: you like the images, Like the simulation is literally like

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Speaker 1: Harry Styles and Florence Pe laying in a bed with

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Speaker 1: their like eyes applied open and like some sort of

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00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 1: like you know, VR being like projected into their eyes,

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Speaker 1: and it's like if they're laying there like their whole

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00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: lives like, but but they're not, because that's the whole

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00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: point is that she is. But he when he goes

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Speaker 1: to work every day, that that's him live leaving the

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Speaker 1: simulation and they asked him, will you be able to

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Speaker 1: get a job to support this? Will you be able

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Speaker 1: to take care of your wife? So I'm assuming he's

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Speaker 1: going out into the real world every day to work

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Speaker 1: some like stupid job, and then he comes home to

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Speaker 1: his slave wife laying in bed and he probably like

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Speaker 1: cleans her bedpan or her diaper, my god, and like

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Speaker 1: what refills her food catheter? Like that's never explained. That's

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Speaker 1: never explained. And this all goes back to my point

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to make, which is that I think

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Speaker 1: the reveal of the simulation would happen much earlier in

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Speaker 1: the movie. And in the original script it does and

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Speaker 1: you know, almost the whole film. So in the original script,

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Speaker 1: the first time that Alice breaks through the portal, she

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Speaker 1: finds out and then she goes back and kind of

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Speaker 1: keeps figuring out more and more and like goes out

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Speaker 1: again and comes back, and and I think that would

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Speaker 1: have been much more effective, because look, this is very

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Speaker 1: clearly uh kind of I'm not gonna say rip off,

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Speaker 1: but heavily inspired by The Stepford Wives. And the thing

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00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,480
Speaker 1: about the Stepford Wives is that you know what's happening,

371
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,639
Speaker 1: you know what's happening in The Stepford Wives very early on.

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Speaker 1: You know that there's something about robots, that the men

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Speaker 1: are killing their wives, replacing them with robots, And the

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00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 1: tension doesn't come from the reveal. The tension comes from

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Speaker 1: this woman knowing what's happening and still making these choices

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Speaker 1: and trying to save herself, trying to save her friends,

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Speaker 1: trying to save her children. So I think that if

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Speaker 1: the reveal had happened much earlier in the film, there

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00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: would have been so much tension inherent in Florence trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out not only how to save herself, but

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Speaker 1: how to save the other women, trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: why this happened to her, And I think it just

383
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Speaker 1: would have been a much more interesting thing if the

384
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Speaker 1: whole movie didn't hinge on the Oh my god, it

385
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Speaker 1: was a simulation, because I think I think that's the

386
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: least interesting part of the movie. It's if your movie

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00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 1: ends in a and it was all the simulation, like

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00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 1: go back to film school. I'm sorry, Like that is

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Speaker 1: just not how movies can end. It's how movies can begin.

390
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: Because yeah, because I think something that's much more interesting

391
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: would have been. I thought Olivia Wilde was actually really

392
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Speaker 1: good in the movie, and one of her best scenes

393
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Speaker 1: was towards the end you find out that she's known

394
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: about the simulation the whole time. She's the only one

395
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: who's known, and she's decided to stay because her children

396
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: have died in the real world and now she has

397
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: them in the simulation. And I think so much more

398
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: could have been drawn out of that if you knew earlier,

399
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: and you could have spent more time with her and

400
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: the implications of that, and like are there other women

401
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: that know, or like what is the thing with the children?

402
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: Like there should have been clues about her children dying,

403
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: Like she should have mentioned something earlier in the movie

404
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: about like them being fragile or like something like that.

405
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: It's just there. There were a lot of missed opportunities.

406
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: But all that being said, it's still a pretty good movie,

407
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 1: and all of the drama surrounding it is just kind

408
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: of stupid. I think, well, I'll say perfectly fine. First

409
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: of all, the fact that it's like not the nineties

410
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: and is in the present day. I guess in like

411
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: the first three minutes of the movie, like it's literally

412
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Speaker 1: the twist of like the village, And I was like

413
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: this is like I thought maybe it would be to cliche. Um,

414
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 1: the plane crashing that happens never explained, Like what was that?

415
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: The Jemma Chan who's like loveling this movie but also

416
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: kind of feels kind of cut from the movie, has

417
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: a moment where she stabs Chris fine as you have

418
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: no idea? Why no idea? Why is it because she

419
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 1: also wants to escape? Is it because she was in

420
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: charge the whole time? Like that would have been more

421
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: interesting twist? And it's just this movie thinks that you

422
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: care about the wrong things. Yeah, exactly. Then what the

423
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: movie wants you to care about is not what the

424
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: audiences I think care about. Um. And also Harry Styles

425
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: was like fine as an actor. I actually would say

426
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: the Harry Styles was wonderful and I really enjoyed him,

427
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: and like I felt like he was one of the

428
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: I thought, obviously Shyla buff would have been better. He

429
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: would he would have been better because he would have

430
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: sold the like doting husband at the beginning, But then

431
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: he would have been incredible as the in cell. He

432
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: would have been so believable as this loser, misogynist who

433
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: would kidnap and rape his wife. That's also something that

434
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 1: ever addressed. That's also something that's never addressed. And you know,

435
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde for the past year has been talking about

436
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: how feminist and empowering the sex scenes in this movie are.

437
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: And now that we know what this movie is really about, Um,

438
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: Olivia Wilde, those are rape scenes. So it doesn't really

439
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: matter that the woman is the only one coming because

440
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: she's being raped. So maybe stop like touting that as

441
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: it being like a feminist reclaiming of sex scenes in cinema.

442
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: And also, I mean, the one thing that Harry did

443
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: not carry was when Harry styles as an insult you

444
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: and I were gig it was very funny. It was

445
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: fucking funny. Um. And I bet that's what his Harry

446
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: looks like in real life, haven't I heard the two us?

447
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: Oh there's a whole there's a conspiracy theory that he's bald.

448
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: I will not believe it. But anyways, Um, I actually

449
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: think Harry was really good and I don't really feel

450
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: like that the dig on his acting was that earned

451
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: because the character does have a British accent. The character

452
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: is British. Yeah, the whole British thing was some kind

453
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: of twitter red Harry yeah, although I guess he was

454
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: American in the real world and chose to be British

455
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: in the simulation. Oh is that because they asked him

456
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: what nationality he wanted to be and he wrote British.

457
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's interesting. Um yeah. I also wondered, like

458
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: if something was changed during the production because Harry's American

459
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: accent is like so bad, But like I don't know, um,

460
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't. I felt it was perfectly fine.

461
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: Not a movie to revisit. No, but Kate ber Land,

462
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 1: you will always be famous. She's perfect Virgins. I know

463
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: that podcasting is an auditory medium that you can't see

464
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: us right now, but if you could see us, you

465
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: would see that. Today, for our discussion on Greek mythology,

466
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: Frand and I both thought we were going to get

467
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: going to goop each other by each bringing our copy

468
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: of de Laire's Book of Greek Myths, which is like

469
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: the book that we all you know, it is a

470
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: sacred texts foundational text and truly like is the genesis

471
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: of this episode, and it's just so funny that we

472
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: both were like, I have a surprise for you, bok

473
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: that like a bunch of nerds like sucking nerds coming

474
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: to school, like and as soon as we brought the

475
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: book up. Also are amazing engineer Clay who's here shout

476
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: out to Clay Um also recognized it. So truly, this

477
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: book is omnipotent universal the culture. I think like if

478
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: you were a kid, and if you were like a

479
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: millennial kid, um, you know, this was something that was

480
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: part of your you know, culture, it really was, and

481
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: I think that, like, I mean, this was taught in

482
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: my school actually, like we had a lesson on it

483
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: in fifth grade, and I was like, I already read

484
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: that book, Like I remember being like so ericant about it,

485
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: but I definitely got this after seeing Disney's Hercules. And

486
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: Disney's Hercules is for sure the thing that sparked my interest,

487
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: and I guess probably our generation's interest with Greek mythology,

488
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: which is what we're talking about today. I mean, sure,

489
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: it's slightly predated by the Hercules TV show and it's

490
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: spin off, Zena Warrior Princess, which also were very mythology,

491
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: but I think we were we were a little too

492
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: young for those, Like I didn't really watch I kind

493
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: of watched Zena and I had a Zena action figure.

494
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: At some point I had a Hercules video game for

495
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: my Sega Genesis, so that was an ancient Hercules. The

496
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Disney movie, No, it was like it was the TV

497
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: show video the video game for Sega Sega starring Kevin Sorbo.

498
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: Horny Horny show. It was very horny. I mean, as

499
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: was Zena. But Zena was lesbian horny. Yes, yeah, honestly,

500
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: I mean lesbian cannon. I would say, like the most

501
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: sapphic like kind of homoerotic thing that existed in that

502
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: dan age, like Zena was, I think in lesbian culture

503
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: at the time, like a mascot, like was emblazoned on

504
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: you know, lesbian T shirts and paraphernalia and stuff like

505
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: that that people would subculturally share in like wink wink. Also,

506
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: Xena fan fiction was huge really at the time. Yes,

507
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: I have heard this from fan fiction scholars. But um,

508
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: for the purposes of this episode, I do think starting

509
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: with Disney Hercules as the root of this lifelong obsession

510
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: an interest is very important. Um, you know, Hercules was

511
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but like kind

512
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: of a flop in terms of Disney movies, because you know,

513
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: this is sort of the tail end of the Disney Renaissance,

514
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: which like when the classics ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Because

515
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: so the Disney Renaissance of the nineties like really began

516
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: with The Little Mermaid, which came out in eight nine. Um,

517
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I was actually, um listening to

518
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: a podcast about this the other a. You know, Disney

519
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: movies really only existed to basically like create I p

520
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: to sell merch off of um, And it wasn't something

521
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: where Disney thought that they were like profitable in and

522
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: of themselves. And it was only with Beauty and the

523
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: Beasts huge critical and commercial success that Disney movies became

524
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: something that were financially successful in and of themselves, and

525
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: like Disney became an entity that wasn't just selling merch

526
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: and theme parks, but like movies. So I guess that's

527
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: how you get something like Hercules, which is obviously one

528
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: of the Disney movies that's like supposed to be for

529
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: boys for boys boys derivatory. Um, it's very you know

530
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: because like princess movies are like about princesses. Clearly, Um,

531
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: when you look at Hercules, it's very obviously to me

532
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: supposed to be a sports movie like Hercules is supposed

533
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: to be you know, a Nikes and analog for like

534
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's or like any of the sports heroes at

535
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: the time, and that's very much seen in the movie

536
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: and things like zero to Hero, which that song is

537
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: literally all about, like the cultures celebrity around sports figures,

538
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: which I think is like such a smart modernization of

539
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: like the movie because it has that kind of Aladdin

540
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: esque like wink wink, here's all this contemporary humor you

541
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: can enjoy. Like, I just think that's so smart to

542
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: think about Hercules as like the Lebron of his time,

543
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: you know, or like that that he had that superstardom

544
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: that turned into merch, which is really funny that you

545
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: are mentioning that. You know, they were like Disney was

546
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: trying to crank out movies to sell merch because infamously

547
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholson was supposed to be Hades in Hercules, and

548
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: they ended up not giving him the role because his

549
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: management demanded fifty of Hades merch sales, and instead of

550
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: came James Woods, who is a pervert and a horrible person,

551
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: one of the worst people on the internet truly, um

552
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: but he and he did sound good. I like, obviously

553
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: I loved all of the Disney movies that came before this.

554
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: I love the Disney Princess movies, but Hercules really captured

555
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: my imagination in a way that that the others hadn't.

556
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: And I think with Hercules, the thing was like, yes,

557
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: with the movies that are based off of fairy tales,

558
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: like you can go back and read the originals, um,

559
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: but there's sort of like a limited amount of source

560
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: material to turn to. And with Greek mythology, with Hercules,

561
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: you find out that there's literally like a whole culture

562
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: to explore and all of these stories, bottomless pit of

563
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: myths and sub myths and sub sub myths. Yes, and

564
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: so this book, like Hercules, was the entry point for sure.

565
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: And then Dolores Book of Greek Myths was you know,

566
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: like the rabbit hole to go down. Oh yeah, And

567
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: like you and I avid readers, like I remember reading

568
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 1: this book like just blowing through it. You know, it's

569
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: a picture book, but it still has a lot of text.

570
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: But I remember blowing through it and being like, there

571
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: has to be more books on Greek mythology, and there were,

572
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: and there were, I mean, this is the one that

573
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: makes it the most accessible for children, because you know,

574
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Greek mythology is famously very fucked up. Dark, dark, dark,

575
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: which I think kind of leads us to one of

576
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: the things I wanted to talk about as like an

577
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: entry point in this discussion, which is how Greek mythology

578
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: is different from other kinds of mythology, and how Greek

579
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: gods are different from other pantheons and why culturally we

580
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: keep coming back to them. And you know, obviously there's

581
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: a lot of scholarship on this, and I think like

582
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: the big thing is that the Greek gods act like humans,

583
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: Like they have very human passions and vulnerabilities. They're like

584
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: very petty and jealous, and they have all of these

585
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: like interpersonal dramas, and their constly flying down from Olympus

586
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: like rape and abduct somebody adult. There's so much like adultery,

587
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: so much mess, so much like turning mortals into animals

588
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: for pretty much no reason for from ye to cover

589
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: up rape. Yeah, I mean, we we'll we'll get into that, um.

590
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: But the darkness that you're getting out of Greek mythology

591
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: and why I think it's different from other mythologies, has

592
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: a lot to do with the fact that it predates

593
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: the colonization of the world, right, it predates the popularization

594
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: of Christianity, And so these myths existed at a time

595
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: where there was no lexicon around same sex sex, right,

596
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: there was no there was no like rape was fine, unfortunately,

597
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: like having sex with boys was like totally chill, but

598
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: like on top like in addition, as long as you

599
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: were chill about it. Also, it must be said that

600
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: there's no sort of like unlike the Bible, there's no

601
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: like foundational text Greek myths, and a lot of these

602
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: are folk tales that come from a lot of different

603
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: cultures that were woven into the Greek like social cultural

604
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: identity and like formalized into these tales. But like there's

605
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 1: no definitive telling of all of them. And like sure,

606
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: a lot of like the you know, like great play

607
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: rights and like thinkers wrote down their version of them.

608
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: People says Metamorphoses not a foundational text but one of

609
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: the most known compilation. But they're still pretty loosey goosey,

610
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: and the details really do differ from telling to telling,

611
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: which I think is like why there's so much fun

612
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: and why Greek mythology has really lent itself, so, you know,

613
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: naturally to all of these contemporary adaptations, right, And I

614
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: kind of think what is really beautiful and the thing

615
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: that I was so attracted to about Greek mythology then

616
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: and now is you know, obviously we look back at

617
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: Greek times and there are things you're like, oh, that's

618
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: not how we act today when it comes to like

619
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: pedophilia or like enslaved people are like how women are treated.

620
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: But like, in addition to the bad stuff, there was

621
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: also just a really rich, beautiful hiddenism that like really

622
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: UM injects itself into like all of these myths that

623
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: make them so messy and such a joy to read

624
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: because they're not beholden to the um colonist ideas of purity,

625
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: purity morality. Yeah, like all the certain things, there's a

626
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: lot of sucking, and there's a lot of it all

627
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: is well sucking, fucking h drugs, drinking like orgies, like

628
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: war like reality, yes, like killing, going create, like losing

629
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: your mind to the point that you literally tear people

630
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: to shreds, crazy parties, killing people like it's nothing like

631
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: wars um anger like. And I think that that unfettered

632
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: emotionality makes great stories, right, even if it's like crazy

633
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: to read, You're like this is these are good stories

634
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: and um, you know in comparison to other mythologies or

635
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: when we think about like a Hans Christian Anderson, right,

636
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: like those like the Little Mermaid o G. Little Mermaid

637
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: or the O G. Cinderella, like those are really dark

638
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: and also very Christian. Like the Little Mermaid. The whole

639
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: thing with the original Little Mermaid is that the story

640
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: ends with her turning into c foam because she doesn't

641
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: have an immortal soul. And then she does get like

642
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: lifted up into heaven and well she gets lifted up

643
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: to like purgatory for two hundred years and then she

644
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: finally gets to have an immortal soul and go to heaven.

645
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that version, but yeah, it's all about

646
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: the afterlife and Christianity, but it still has that the

647
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: darkness of the you know, she was supposed to stab

648
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: the prince and like doesn't she like there's something about

649
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: cutting off her feet or something, and in Cinderella the

650
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: sisters have to cut off their toes or whatever, like uh,

651
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, but like the thing about Greek mythology is

652
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: that like it has the nastiness without the kind of

653
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: like judgment of it, yes, the judgment. Yeah, and because

654
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: and like also just like queerness and like gender fuckory,

655
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: like so many gods, not in the Delarues version, but

656
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: like in other versions of Greek myths, Like there's so

657
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: much queerness and so much kind of like gender fuckory

658
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: among God's heroes stories and all that jazz and Disney

659
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: hercules to go back to, you know, the jumping off

660
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: point is not explicitly queer, but like it's the queerest

661
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: fucking story. I mean it should literally be called from

662
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: Twink to Twine. A twink who doesn't know his biological parents,

663
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: feels that there's something out there more for him, a

664
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: community that he belongs to because he doesn't belong in

665
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: this and then has like a sassy best friend who

666
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: like doesn't really want to date him because she thinks

667
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: there's like a little something off about him. He has

668
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: a hairy mentor who like kind of wants to fuck

669
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: another like older man who wants to suck him God,

670
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: And but I remb member as a kid, I definitely

671
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: caught onto that yearning, um that you know, there's something

672
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: something wrong with me, Like I need to find something

673
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: greater than myself and the possibility. You know. The I

674
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: Want song to Go the Distance is, which is a

675
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: beautiful song, way too short, way too short, and the

676
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: interlude not the best song in the in the movie

677
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 1: though that that is won't salam in Love, wont sam

678
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: in Love of course, one of the greatest songs ever written.

679
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: And also I will say with Go the Distance, the

680
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: interlude makes it really difficult to do for karaoke. Um

681
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: as well, It's kind of like, um uh, the song

682
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: from Mowanna To, which is split up into like three

683
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: different versions that all happen at different parts of the movie. Right.

684
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: I need I need the kind of karaoke cut of

685
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 1: Go the Distance because it's exactly in my vocal range

686
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 1: and I can really nail it really like they should

687
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: there should be a sort of part of your world

688
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: version of it all together. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I

689
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: mean Hercules is hot, Like let's say that, like I'm

690
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: very horny for Hercules, as Meg is really hot to

691
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: another sort of bisexual jumping off point. And Meg's like

692
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: kind of self assuredness which we had never really seen

693
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: in the Disney Cinematic universe before. In a female lead,

694
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 1: and because she very distinctly says that she's not a princess. Yes, yeah,

695
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: we hadn't seen a Disney, a female Disney character at

696
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: that point who wasn't a princess. And like now in

697
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: today in Disney, we have this whole sort of meta

698
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: thing where we have these heroines who are constantly saying

699
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: I'm not a princess, like literally in the movies, say

700
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: things like that. And I think Meg was kind of

701
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: the first version of that. She did it first, She

702
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: did it first. She said she did it without the

703
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: need to be like wink wink consumers, No, but she

704
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: was but literally like I'm a damsel, I'm in distress,

705
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: I can handle it, have a nice day like that girl.

706
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: Let's watch it right after that, honestly. But the thing

707
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: fortunately about that movie is I do know almost every

708
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: word of that movie, like the dialogue and songs, and

709
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: I it's really hard to not engage. And I think

710
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: people that do that during movies are insufferable. Maybe, but

711
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: I have to. I have to tell you. I think

712
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: I've told you this, but I've never said it on

713
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: the pod Hercules Disney. Hercules is in my bona fide

714
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: top five like albums of films of all time. I

715
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: got it. It honestly, at a certain point in my

716
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: life could have been in mind. I love it, you know,

717
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: I really love the Fates. They were very very important

718
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: to me as a child's representation matters, it really does,

719
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: you know. It's the James Woods of it all does

720
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: make Hatie suck. But like Haiti's is such a good

721
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: villain and so fucking funny, great amazing line reads, and

722
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: a villain that you know is kind of the comedic relief,

723
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: like we don't see that as much with other is

724
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: Evelance before you know he because you have Ursula, but

725
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: she's not comedic, you know, she's I mean, she's sassy.

726
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: But like Hades is like every single line he has

727
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: is a joke. Where Ursula it's like I'm fabulous and

728
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: I have a few winky winks, which is scar to like.

729
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 1: I think, you know all these queer coded villains, is

730
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: Hades queer coded? I think I could, I could. There's

731
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: certainly an argument to be made for it. I would think,

732
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,919
Speaker 1: I would say so personal. I think he wants to Hercules.

733
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: I mean everyone wants to fuck Hercules. Hercules. Um, I

734
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: mean honestly. But the uh the original story of Hercules

735
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: I think is herk was born out of wedlock and

736
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: Harra found out Athena fucking narc probably a Fenna is

737
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: the cop of great She probably was like guess what

738
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: Zoos did again? And like, you know, had Hercules banished

739
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: or whatever? And actually now it's a ab all are

740
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: about but like, actually, though, I mean there's another. I'm

741
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: pretty Athena was the one that fucked over Medusa. Medusa

742
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: was you know, raped and then um by Poseidon and

743
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: then Athena was like, guess what happened, um, Medusa? Her

744
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: body is desecrated, let's banish her. And then she was

745
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: a priest. She was a priestess. Yes, oh I didn't

746
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: know that, I um. And then she you know, and

747
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: then SEUs was like or someone was like, your head

748
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: is snakes now, like as punishment for being raped, well,

749
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: most of Greek pathology is just women being punished for

750
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: being raped, yes, and then covering it up and like

751
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 1: either like saying something about it and being punished literally

752
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,959
Speaker 1: saying nothing about it and being punished, or being turned

753
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: into animals or turning themselves into trees to escape the

754
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: threat of being raised. I mean this is what um

755
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before in the on the podcast,

756
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: and like we will get into a discussion of you know,

757
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: like adaptations of Greek mythology. But Um Wake Siren is

758
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: a really great book of short story is that are

759
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: retellings of Ovid tales and they're basically it's basically all

760
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: about sexual violence, um and and like those stories from

761
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: a very contemporary perspective because like Greek mythology, like the

762
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: women are treated horribly as women in that society were,

763
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 1: and that book is like a kind of reclamation or

764
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 1: nuancing of you know, stories that didn't have the historical

765
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: context to nuance them at the time. You know, like

766
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 1: that these conversations didn't exist. Conversations about rape didn't exist,

767
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: Conversations about you know, Peter Asty didn't exist, conversations about

768
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: like the word homosexual is a very new invention. Right. Also,

769
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: even the term rape, like in classic tales, like does

770
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: not always mean rape. Like like you know, like there's

771
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: a very famous statue called the Rape of Persephone that

772
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: depicts Haiti is pulling Persephone into the underworld, but like,

773
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: based on various translations, it's rape, is not necessarily like

774
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: always about sexual violence. Like sometimes it's about like a

775
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: woman being kidnapped against her consent. And so the idea

776
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: of rape and like it's sexualization is like kind of

777
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: murky in in Greek myth but in basically like gods

778
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: were always stealing these mortals away to do something with

779
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: them against their will because to them they were just

780
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: like pretty playthings. So you have something like the Guinea

781
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: Maade story, right, and I was just like or like

782
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: the rape of Io, who like gets turned into a bowl?

783
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: Oh right, They're always getting turned into I mean that's

784
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: literally what Ovid's metamorphosis about. It's about all of these

785
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: different figures in Greek mythology who transform and metamorphosized, getting

786
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: turned into different turned into Medusa's into swans, Peacock's trees, trees, spiders, yes, spiders,

787
00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: all that jazz. Greek mythology is very trans Which do

788
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,919
Speaker 1: you think are the hottest kind of god? Okay? So

789
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: the god that I truly would want to fuck, and

790
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: I have thought long and hard about this is Hephaestus,

791
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: because you know someone who can fuck the goddess of

792
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: love and like really throw it down, who also is

793
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: like hammering metal in a smith all day, a working

794
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: class himbo. Truly, that's who Hephaestus is, Like, that is

795
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: the god that I want to suck. Who would play

796
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: a Festus in like a modern day adaptation. It's kind

797
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: of giving, like a like working class him It's kind

798
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: of maybe not Adam Driver, because like Adam Driver's cast

799
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: into everything, but it kind of because Adam Driver would

800
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: suck Aphrodite, you know, like, but I also think like

801
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: Hephaestus would be like kind of ugly, um, I mean

802
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: out of Driver, it's kind of ugly. But the thing

803
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: is if you can lay yeah, he's got shovel, I

804
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: mean he can lay that pipe. I want to know

805
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: what your other answers are, but I was gonna say,

806
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: my my guests for you actually would have been argust

807
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: This girl. I'm holding up a picture of Greek mythology.

808
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: It's the guy, the guy who's covered an eye, the

809
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: guy that that's covered in eyes. He's hot in this

810
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: illustration too, if you want to google Argus de Laire's

811
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: book of Greek myths. Um and then also, like I

812
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: do think I would be into Hara because of her

813
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: mommy vibe. Jealous mommy jealous mommy vibes like she would

814
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: own my ass literally like fifty of like myths are

815
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: just like Zeus cheating on her and her having a

816
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: rage stroke and killing or transforming someone, And I would

817
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: love for her to take that energy out on me.

818
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: I think she. I would love to have Hara make

819
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: me cry. Honestly, there is a a really good Hara

820
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: adaptation somewhere because her a limited series. Yes, because every

821
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: single story she's in is her as this shrew who hysteric,

822
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: hysterical shrew who is so angry that she has to

823
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: so angry about her husband or whatever. She would have

824
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: dumped Zeus. She was the original before he cheats carry

825
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: Underwood vibes. Yes, but there's something interesting about that story

826
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: because there's Harry can't give up this relationship. She's also

827
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: Zeus's sister because oh yeah, that's all, which is like

828
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: literally when you think about when you think about the

829
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: Persephone myth, Hersephonie is given to Hades, who is her

830
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: uncle by her father, Zeus who is her dad who

831
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: fucked her mom Demeter, who is his sister, So it's

832
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: all in SSS. But with Harry, it's like she's trapped

833
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: in this relationship, like she is the figurehead of all

834
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: of Olympus, Like she can't leave her post. She just

835
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: has to deal with this Zeus bullshit all the time.

836
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: And I think that is like a really good story,

837
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,240
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So who which which Greek god would

838
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: you want to fuck? Or like, you know, rent an

839
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: Airbnb and have a long weekend with, have a long

840
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: weekend with. I mean, would you want to spirit you

841
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: away to Olympus or to the underworld? When when I

842
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: was a kid, I was horny for Apollo and actually

843
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 1: one of my earliest I would say that, like Apolo

844
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: has got such mean twink energy he is, and he's

845
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: a mean god to like, he's not nice. What he

846
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: did to Cassandra very petty. Wait what did he do

847
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: to Cassandra? So Cassandra in the you know theron the

848
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: Myth of Troy. You know, Cassandra is one of the

849
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: daughters of Troy and like Apollo wants her and she

850
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: rejects him, and so he places this curse on her

851
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: that she will have visions of the future, but no

852
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: one will believe her. Oh, is she the one that

853
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: launched a thousand ships? No, that's Helen of Troy, Thank you. Thanks.

854
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: Sandra is one of the Trojan Women, which we'll get to.

855
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we're jumping around so much, but I

856
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: love it. Okay, So as a kid, I have a

857
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: visceral memory rose of obviously you know when your kid,

858
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: you like draw horny things like that that happens. And

859
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: this book delares book of business. This book um really

860
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: like you know, horned me up. And I have a

861
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: visceral memory of drawing this kind of depiction of Apollo

862
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: and then drawing these like chiseled abs on him, you know.

863
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: And then I remember drawing it and finishing the drawing,

864
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: and I then your mom saw you and then like

865
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,919
Speaker 1: and then like prayed over your body. Luckily it wasn't

866
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: that well, I mean it did. I did. My horny

867
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: drawings did get discovered. I remember crying about it and

868
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: my dad being like, it's okay, like you you you

869
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: beautifully portray women and men's bodies. I remember my dad

870
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: saying something to that effect, like really weird, just trying

871
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: to like kind of be like my kids school gardens,

872
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: Like I don't know how to do that. That's how

873
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: people have been like like dealing with gay stuff forever,

874
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: Like it's just art. It's just art. That's what most

875
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 1: of like Greek statues are. It's like all these men

876
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: like men like wrestling each other and they're like, oh

877
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: they were friends. Yeah. But I remember in fifth grade

878
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: like looking at the drawing and being like and I

879
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: remember I'm like over my on my bed finishing the drawing.

880
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: I remember looking at it. I mean like, oh no,

881
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: like this is like I'm horny for this, and that

882
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 1: is going to be a problem, an ongoing problem for me. UM.

883
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: But I haven't told this story on the pod before. UM,

884
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: But this tattoo that I have of Apollo and High

885
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: and synthas Um, which is another beautiful um twink abduction

886
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: love story is my first memory of queerness, if not

887
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: my earliest memory. Cane um basically as t l DR

888
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 1: ver t l d R. It's a it's a really

889
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: short myth um. You know, Apollo as he just want

890
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: to do, falls in love with a twink named High

891
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: and Cinthis and you know they love each other and

892
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 1: they are you know as like gods do. And one

893
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: day they decided to play discus and Apollo is like

894
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: so toxic that he throws the disc is too hard

895
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: and kills High and Cynthis upon impact, and Apollo is

896
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: obviously forever time and then and Apollo is obviously devastated,

897
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: and so he you know, creates the High and Scynth

898
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: flower in his honor um. But I remember it's like

899
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: I remember after finishing DeLay's Book of Greek Myths, I

900
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: moved on too books without pictures, Greek myths without pictures

901
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: and like, and I remember reading It's like it was

902
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: like three sentences of a myth. It was like a

903
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: long list of myth myths that I was reading in

904
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: a bible, thin pages like textbook. And I remember reading

905
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: like Apollo had a lover and his name was high

906
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: Synthis and I was like his like what like? And

907
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: it was very It was definitely something that stuck out

908
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: to me. I think that might be a good jumping

909
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: off point to start talking about some of our other

910
00:51:55,320 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: favorite adaptations of Greek mythology um, which is definitely something

911
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: that has, you know, stuck with me throughout my life.

912
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: And I do think there is a cycle where every

913
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 1: couple of years we get some new you know, text

914
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: added to the cannon. And right now we are kind

915
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: of in this renaissance of you know, these very contemporary

916
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: retellings of these classic stories. Um, well, I don't. It's

917
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: not a zance like there actually should be way more

918
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: like it should be. There should be. It's actually not

919
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: that many like it's kind of shocking how untapped A

920
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: lot of this is, yes, but but you know, Okay,

921
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,919
Speaker 1: So I think some of the formative ones for me,

922
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: like we'll get to the current day, but some of

923
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: the formative ones for me, like over the years have

924
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 1: been things like Mary Zimmerman's Metamorphosis, which we discovered we

925
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 1: were both obsessed with huge I we did a performance

926
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: of it at my high school that I stage managed

927
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: question Mark, and it was like one of my favorite

928
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: plays I had ever read. It was um for me

929
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: when so I was a theater nerd and when I

930
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: was auditioning for colleges because I wanted to go into

931
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: an acting program, one of my audition monologues was from Metamorphosis,

932
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: of course, um so for the virgins. Metamorphoses is a

933
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: play written by Mary's Emmerman that basically adapts all the

934
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: different like myths. Yeah, all the different exactly, and it's

935
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: like so romantic and sexy and beautiful and like I

936
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: think my monologue audition for it was Orpheus is but

937
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: like that depiction of Orpheus and Euridicies myth is like

938
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: one of my favorites ever because in the adaptation you

939
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: have to see Orpheus making the crucial mistake of you know,

940
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: turning around and looking back back at it and seeing

941
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: the mistake over and over and over and over again.

942
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: You know. The Orpheus and euridicy I think, really speaks

943
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: to this thing that the Greeks did really well, which

944
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: is tragic, you know, like something like Greek Greeks invented

945
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,959
Speaker 1: theater as we know it um. I was a theater

946
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: kid in high school, and you know, Greek theater is

947
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 1: one of the foundations of any sort of like theatrical practice,

948
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: and it's like one of the first things that you

949
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: learn about in theater school, both like when I was

950
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: in high school and the theater kid when I like

951
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: briefly studied acting in college before I realized it was

952
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: lame um and the great thing about the Greeks, and

953
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: like this carries on through the history of like storytelling

954
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: and like obviously you see it and things like Shakespeare

955
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: is this sort of like luxuriating in tragedy, you know,

956
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: like it's very indulgent, Like these tragedies exist for that

957
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: experience of like like pushing on a bruise, you know,

958
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,800
Speaker 1: like reveling in sadness. Um. So things like orpheus and euridacy,

959
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: like you know how that story ends, like and it's

960
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: been told a thousand times, um, but you just even

961
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: knowing how it ends, like you you want to luxuriate

962
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: and that feeling of despair. Um. I don't know. I

963
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: think you know this about me. But I very similarly

964
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: studied theater briefly and then decided it was lame and quit.

965
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: Did you know this? So I went to the DePaul

966
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: Theater Conservatory for one semester, like because I graduated from

967
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: high school and you know, I was a theater kid

968
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: in high school, and I was like, theater is my

969
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: community and helped me realize who I am, so surely

970
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: it's what I want to do for the rest of

971
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: my life, which is like in America, like why do

972
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: we like pressure kids to think that they need to

973
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: know what to do with the rest of their life

974
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: when they are nineteen? Anyways, I went to the DePaul

975
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: Feeder Conservatory and uh really, like like we we had

976
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: to study like Greek tragedy, and I always thought the

977
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: tragedies were so fucking boring, Like I mean, they are

978
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: texted so and even like modern adaptations are boring, they

979
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: are in are boring, but there's just something about them,

980
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: like I get it. I my senior year of high school,

981
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: I got cast in one of our main stage productions

982
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: and I had a lean in it. Um. We did

983
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: The Trojan Women by Euripides, and that is like it's

984
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: trauma pore and it's like about the aftermath of the

985
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: Trojan War and all of the leftover women and like

986
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: these women whose lives have been ruined, their husbands killed,

987
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 1: that they've been raped, their city has been torn apart um.

988
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 1: I played Tolphibious, who's the Greek soldier who like throws

989
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: Hector's baby off of like the walls of Troy. Um,

990
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: my god, and it's so like at the time, like

991
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: we thought we were doing the most groundbreaking contemporization of

992
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: Greek tragedy that had ever been done. And now I

993
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: look back and I'm like, oh my god. The parents

994
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 1: sitting through that must have been like what the fuck

995
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: is That's kind of something that I got to wear

996
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: a cape, so that is a cape a cape or

997
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: a cape let, honey. It is so funny though that

998
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: like retroactively, we look back on these moments and like

999
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: you think in the moment, you're like this is like

1000
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: so good, like this is actually good, like even though

1001
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: we're in high school, like this is so good. It's

1002
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: like no, it's not, like you're This is like you know,

1003
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: like an adaptation of like a Greek myth about like

1004
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: rape and motherhood. Like you and you as like you

1005
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: as a seventeen or eighteen year old do not have

1006
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: the emotional maturity to be able to bring this in

1007
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: a meaningful way. You simply do not. And also we

1008
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: had this like visiting teacher who directed it, who like

1009
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: had gone to n y U and so and so

1010
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: they like they brought all of these like sort of

1011
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: like you know, contemporary theater ideas to this production. And

1012
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: we did these like ritual quote unquote rituals on stage

1013
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: that we're like very like modern dance. And it was

1014
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: like what did you do to Like we were doing

1015
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: viewpoints work if anyone out there, and it's like this

1016
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: like thing we don't don't know, Yeah, I mean, if

1017
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: you know what it is, I'm sure really saying that

1018
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: was very triggering for you, and I like apologize, but

1019
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: also to deal with it. You know, I think part

1020
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: of honestly part of the way I feel about Greek theater,

1021
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is boring is like partially

1022
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: how I feel about Shakespeare sometimes because it is actually

1023
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: really difficult for me to be like entertained by like

1024
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: Shakespeare as is Shakespeare, I feel totally different, you know,

1025
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: I know, I know you were were very different when

1026
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: it comes to the Shakespeare at all. But like the

1027
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: thing for me is that Greek mythology similar to Shakespeare

1028
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: is like I think the stories have less resonance in

1029
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: a contemporary world, but they did give us archetypes and

1030
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,919
Speaker 1: story tools that have you know, formed and influenced our

1031
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: method of storytelling for centuries and centuries, you know. And

1032
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: like when I think about like Greek tragedy specifically, it's

1033
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: like we have you know, the like the term catharsis

1034
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: because of that are like um and things like um,

1035
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: you know, a Greek chorus, Like that's an idea that

1036
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: like you can see and like not even really need to,

1037
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: like you you under you immediately understand what's happening. Um.

1038
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,479
Speaker 1: But yeah, like as I was mentioning before, right now

1039
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,560
Speaker 1: we are okay, maybe we're not in assence of you know,

1040
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: Greek Greek Greek tellings, but there have been over the

1041
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: past couple of years, especially in literature, a lot of

1042
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: very modern adaptations of Greek myths. Button. But I think

1043
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: the the difference with the trend now is that it's

1044
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: applying a contemporary sensibility but keeping it in the classical setting.

1045
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking specifically of the Song of Achilles and Searcy,

1046
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: both by Madeline Miller. I think we are like split

1047
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: right down the middle where you're more of a Song

1048
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: of Achilles girly and I'm a Searcy. Yeah, and that

1049
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: really says a lot about who we are women, you know.

1050
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 1: A big part of my ethos actually, just like the

1051
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: things that I want to make now are very informed

1052
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: by something that the books stood for, which was putting

1053
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 1: queerness into a story that it's traditionally excluded from. And

1054
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: like we just never get to see faggots or lesbians

1055
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: or trans people like pick up the sword, you know

1056
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: what I mean. We see them, Um, we see their innteriority.

1057
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: We see their heartbreak, we see their oppression, we see

1058
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: like the systemic ways that they have like obstacles, but

1059
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: like we never get to see them like you know,

1060
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: kill the fucking dragon, rescue the damsel, pick up the sword. Um.

1061
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: And I felt like that was something that was really

1062
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: radical about Song of Achilles. And you know it also

1063
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: is very like especially radical, and that it's not even

1064
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: just like a retelling, Like it's not injecting queerness into

1065
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: a story in which queerness never existed. It's reclaiming queerness

1066
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: in a story that always was queer and was straight washed.

1067
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 1: And it totally reads very white a And also I

1068
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: mean this is this is a compliment, not a dig.

1069
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: Like it also reads like fan fiction, like it totally

1070
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: is fan fiction. I mean all Greek mythology adaptations are

1071
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: a fan fiction. Yes, but um, it's worth saying that

1072
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: Madeline Miller is a classics professor, so she has clocked

1073
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, the ten thousand hours on this, which I

1074
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: think makes a lot of her work so much more compelling.

1075
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: Like I hadn't read her work in a long time,

1076
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 1: and when I picked sir s up this month, like

1077
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I forgot that she

1078
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: just knows her ship and she and she has a

1079
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: really I really like her writing style. It's very and

1080
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: this is also not a dig. It's very easy to read.

1081
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: It's very accessible, but still poetic, very poetic, dramatic, very melodramatic.

1082
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 1: I really prefer Sercy because like, I'm always going to

1083
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: be a witch girl writer, writer or die. Um, what's

1084
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: the story of we should actually for the virgins, clarify

1085
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: the stories of Achilles and sars Okay first, okay, So

1086
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: Searcy is about the goddess Cercy, who is like like

1087
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: often thought to be like kind of the mother of witches,

1088
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: like she in Greek mythology, like she is the classic,

1089
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: which I would say her in Hecate are kind of

1090
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: the two which figures in Greek mythology. Hecate is the

1091
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: goddess of magic. Searcy is a um daughter of a

1092
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: a river god I believe. Yeah, well she's a she's

1093
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: a daughter of Helios and one of his Sidon's daughters. Yeah,

1094
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: because he was just you know, sucking and fucking yeah. Um.

1095
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: And Searcy is a big figure in Um the Odyssey

1096
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: because when Odysseus, Odysseus and his crew of men um

1097
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: you know, end up on her eye end. She becomes

1098
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: enambored with Odysseus, turns all his men into pigs um,

1099
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: and she and Odysseus are sucking and sucking um. And

1100
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: so the the novel Cercy is really about um, you know,

1101
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 1: giving this woman who only is um like a character

1102
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: in in other people's stories and specifically in men's stories,

1103
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: her own story and her own agency. Um. And it's

1104
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: about you know, her being this goddess who like kind

1105
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: of has no power of her own. And then like

1106
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: literally like invents witchcraft. Yeah, and like um in the Odyssey,

1107
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: which like we don't even need to talk about because

1108
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: it is like so boring, but like in the Odyssey,

1109
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: she is like a very minor character, Like she's a villain.

1110
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: Who isn't she vanquished? Like, isn't she's not vanquished? They're

1111
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: just kind of leave her yeah, um. And And so

1112
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: like the kind of expanding of this story the way

1113
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: Madeline Miller does it is she creates opposition between magic

1114
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: and the what what gods can do? And so the

1115
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: fact that she had power is like something the gods

1116
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 1: cannot get around. They can't do anything about her potions.

1117
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: They can't do anything about her manifest stations, her spells,

1118
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: like because you know, they don't know how to do

1119
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: magic basically, So it's very fascinating. Um Song of Achilles

1120
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: is literally just like a high school breakup story, but

1121
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: told through like the Trojan the Trojan, it's not even

1122
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: a breakup because they don't break up, just one of

1123
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: them dies. I mean they did kind of technically break up.

1124
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 1: Um uh. And Madeline Miller's telling of it is wonderful

1125
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: because Patrick Cluse is the protagonist and Achilles is a

1126
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: little toxic and I think super toxic. Yes, yeah, very toxic,

1127
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: because the whole idea of especially the way that Madeline

1128
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: Miller tells it, is like Achille knows that he if

1129
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: he goes to war, will die young, but he will

1130
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: die in glory and that is more importan into him

1131
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: than having a long happy life with his lover Patroclus, right,

1132
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: And and it's real and so much of Greek mythology

1133
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,439
Speaker 1: is about knowing your fate before it happens and doing

1134
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: the thing anyway. Yeah, And like I think Achilles, like

1135
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: was he a demigod? Said he's a daughter of Thetis,

1136
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: who was one of Poseidon's daughters, and I honestly just

1137
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: like I was going through a breakup at the time

1138
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: and like had a really toxic partner when I was

1139
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: reading it, and like I just remember being like damn,

1140
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: like this like myth from centuries and centuries ago. Madeline

1141
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: Miller was able to render with an emotional reality that

1142
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: like I could access as a high schooler, Like it

1143
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: was just it's just so beautiful. Um, but I love

1144
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: I love that. I love her expansion of it because

1145
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, Patrick Loose and Achilles relationship is never explored

1146
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: really in Greek mythology. It's just like their lovers and

1147
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: that was it. Yeah, well, well there's the big thing

1148
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: of Greek mythology is Achilles. Patrick Cliss again, like very

1149
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: much like Cercy, is just like a throwaway character in

1150
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: a larger story, Like you only get like Achilles, like um,

1151
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, uh, like melodramatic outpouring of grief when Patrick

1152
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: Cliss is killed and it's what leads him to have this,

1153
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: you know, to kill Hector in this very like dishonorable way, um,

1154
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: and like leads to his death. And so it is

1155
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: nice to have that story like fleshed out and like

1156
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: to have this person who's like a footnote in history,

1157
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: given you know, all this agency and backstory and like death. Honestly,

1158
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: like Achilles was kind of giving like toxic masculinity top,

1159
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: and like Patrick Cluse was like Twinkie bottom, and like

1160
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: Achilles hated like his effeminiscy. I actually think Patrick Luz

1161
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: was the top. I don't. I don't, but that's like

1162
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: for for like Greek historical reasons, because obviously, like gay

1163
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: sex wasn't like frowned upon, right, like it was something

1164
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: like that was people would have sex openly and like

1165
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 1: it was totally okay to have male lovers, especially if

1166
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: you were you know, at war, right like like um,

1167
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: and so because they thought that it would like engender um,

1168
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: like better camaraderie on the battlefield if the person you

1169
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: were going to war with with someone that you cared

1170
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 1: about in this like sexual and like sort of romantic way, right.

1171
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: And so you know, classicists like they don't find like

1172
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 1: stigma and like you you around like gay sex stuff,

1173
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: but they do find stigma and judgment around penetration. So

1174
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: the receptive partner is at times throughout Greek mythology shamed

1175
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: for being the receiving partner. But part of the reason

1176
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 1: why why pederasty was like acceptable was because when you

1177
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 1: were pederasty is literally just like an adult man having

1178
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: sex with a young boy, which was extremely common in

1179
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: in uh kind of Greek mythological time, and it was

1180
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: sort of like a mentorship kind of thing. Yeah. Sometimes

1181
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: it was like my little toy. Sometimes it was a

1182
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: mentorship things. Sometimes it was like you're my companion, You're

1183
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: coming with me to war, You're gonna stay in my

1184
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: tent and like bear my cup and stuff like that.

1185
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: So sometimes these our full relationship yeah, um, but it

1186
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: was that you know that these boys were never looked

1187
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 1: down on for being the receptive partners because they were

1188
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 1: not yet citizens, right, And so that's kind of why

1189
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: I think Patrick Louse is the bottom is because he

1190
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 1: was the not the one that was glorified and made

1191
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: the hero. Yeah, but like I get that that's like

1192
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: the mythological baggage of it. But like in the way

1193
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: I look at it, I think like Achilles, because he's

1194
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: such a hot shot on the battlefield, Like when he

1195
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: comes back to the tent at night, he needs someone

1196
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 1: who's going to suck his brain. He can so he

1197
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: can like unwind. That's that I'm writing. That's excellent, that's

1198
01:08:47,360 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: the vibe. I know that. I think this is true.

1199
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: This also could just be like a byproduct of having

1200
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: read a lot of fan fiction, but I think they

1201
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: did a lot of like thig fucking. That's I was

1202
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 1: literally going to say that there was intercural sex. Yes,

1203
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: that's what it's called. They would like that, they would

1204
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: that would be there, um, that would be their loophole

1205
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: around not being the receptive partner because also because I'm

1206
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: sure it was very hard to you know, keep clean

1207
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: when we were at war, yes, but because they would

1208
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 1: be ashamed for being a receptive partner. They're like, oh,

1209
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: it's final, Just fuck your thigh gap and then we

1210
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,560
Speaker 1: can like kind of you ever done that, that's a complation.

1211
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 1: I have a couple of times. Actually, one time, even

1212
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 1: even more unusually, someone fucked the crease of the back

1213
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: of my knee and it like happened. It happened like

1214
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,560
Speaker 1: very organically. It's just kind of like I was spooning

1215
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 1: with someone and like he was I think taller than

1216
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,680
Speaker 1: me and just kind of naturally like his dick like

1217
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: slotted in into like the back of my knee and

1218
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 1: he just fun and it was like weirdly really erotic.

1219
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and he did it to completion. Look at

1220
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 1: a crevices and crevices and crevice, the crevices crevicing. Um yeah,

1221
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: I feel like honestly, like I will say, I do

1222
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: like having sex with like just the ass crack. That

1223
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 1: is something that I have done to completion. Um or

1224
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 1: has been done to me to completion, but not a

1225
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,200
Speaker 1: thigh gap. And now it's something that I maybe and

1226
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: I think like if you're squeezing the thighs together and

1227
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: like you you know, it feels so good to like

1228
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: rub between someone's cheeks, like you know, when it's like

1229
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: a sort of just the tip kind of situation. I

1230
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: was just about to say, it's kind of giving a

1231
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 1: just the tip vibe or honestly that kind of like

1232
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Greek culture was very just the tip. There

1233
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: was I was reading before that there was a god

1234
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: of fertility called pre APIs who just had a giant

1235
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: erection all the time, and they I know, right, and

1236
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: there would be like little kind of like insignias of

1237
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: pre aps on like people's like dull wars to signify

1238
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 1: that they had like a strong man at the house,

1239
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: so like you where or whatever, which is like so fun.

1240
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's like a um, a vagina version

1241
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 1: of that where it's just like a woman with a big,

1242
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 1: like enormous pussy. Do you feel I feel like that

1243
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: has to I hope so too. But considering you know, patriarchy,

1244
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: probably not, probably not UM. But the other thing is, like,

1245
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, people would always have sex in public, people

1246
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 1: would always have um orgies. And in Greek times, like

1247
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 1: the men would carry around little sacks of oil, like

1248
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: little lube sacks, like just on their belts because they

1249
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: just always had to be ready, which is whack a doodle,

1250
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 1: But also just like I think paints a picture of

1251
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: like what sex was like during that time. UM, I

1252
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: think a lot about UM. Have you heard of this

1253
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: sacred Band of Thebes? Yes, for the virgins. The Band

1254
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: of Thebes was this army of three hundred soldiers or

1255
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: rather a hundred and deep pairs of male lovers that were,

1256
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, in the lore, undefeatable because they loved each

1257
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 1: other so much. And that's and that's why we have

1258
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 1: the movie. Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure the guy

1259
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: who wrote three hundred has never credited the Band of

1260
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: Thebes as his inspiration because his version of the story

1261
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: is not the same like battle or myth of the

1262
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: Band of Thebes, but he literally rips off of the

1263
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 1: myth of the Band of Thebes and then takes the

1264
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 1: queerness out of it. But it's still pretty gay. It

1265
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,640
Speaker 1: is still pretty gay, but the army is like explicitly homophobic.

1266
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 1: There's a moment in three hundred where one of the

1267
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: guys is like, oh, that boy lever or whatever, which

1268
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: like that never happened in Greek times, Like that was

1269
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: not how sentiment around men having sex with men existed.

1270
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: So it's like so ikey and stupid to me for

1271
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 1: like someone to like kind of pull out what could

1272
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: be the most interesting part of that story slash. All

1273
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that I'm probably gonna adapt this, and

1274
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna well, that was gonna be. That was gonna

1275
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 1: be My next question, Like, if you were going to

1276
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: adopt you know, a Greek myth or story or like

1277
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,680
Speaker 1: a particular god or goddess or whatever into you know,

1278
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: a book or a limited series or a movie, what

1279
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: would it be? Forgive me? I have multiple answers. One

1280
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 1: of them would be a band of thebes. I think that,

1281
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: you know, three hundred soldiers sucking and fuckingto victory is

1282
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 1: an amazing and that should be the title. But it's

1283
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: kind of like a I mean, I've never actually read

1284
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 1: like a kind of textual reading of the myth or whatever,

1285
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: so I don't know actually what they did, but like

1286
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing to think about, like, you know,

1287
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,639
Speaker 1: going to battle, slaughtering a bunch of people, going back

1288
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: to camp just fucking, just like sucking to get the

1289
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: adrenaline out of your system, and that gives you the

1290
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: energy and willpower to like go into the next battle.

1291
01:13:55,240 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 1: Like that's amazing. Um. I have written an erotic adaptation

1292
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: that is set in the modern day of Zeus and

1293
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,919
Speaker 1: gay Meade that is going to be published in um

1294
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: a compilation like next year. I will send it to you.

1295
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: It's it's it's pretty I mean, it's pretty graphic. Um,

1296
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,680
Speaker 1: it was so fun to make sure to keep my

1297
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: little um my belt sachet of lube. But in my

1298
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 1: act keep that thing. In my adaptation, You're gonna roll

1299
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: your eyes because it's so on the nose. In my adaptation,

1300
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 1: Zeus is like this, like you know, real estate, UM

1301
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: kind of mogul club owner who owns a club called Olympus.

1302
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 1: And Ganya Meade is a bottle boy twink that you know,

1303
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 1: he meets and usurps when it's when it's right, it's right. Um.

1304
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 1: So I'll send that to you. But my real answer,

1305
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: the thing that I literally actually have started to like

1306
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:56,320
Speaker 1: write as something that, um, I would I mean, I

1307
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 1: think it could be a series, but it would also

1308
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:02,919
Speaker 1: be a very good book, is Dionysus. He is currently

1309
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: my favorite. I mean, he's my favorite god. I think

1310
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 1: I think that you know, for the virgins, he's the god.

1311
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:10,600
Speaker 1: Everyone says he's the god of wine, but he's the

1312
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: god of hedonism. He's the god of transnis queerness. He

1313
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, was very gender fluid, um. And he you know,

1314
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: unfortunately had this like cult of like women who he

1315
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, subscribed to his ideologies and like would rip

1316
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: people apart. And that's like the ugly story. But I

1317
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 1: think that there's an interesting version of that of someone

1318
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:35,720
Speaker 1: who understands the transformative and addictive power of pleasure and

1319
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: uses that to manipulate a crowd. Um. And I think that, honestly,

1320
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:44,559
Speaker 1: there aren't stories of Dionysius that are as queer as

1321
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: he is, you know, and I feel like there's a

1322
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: version of the you know, the enclave of people in

1323
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:53,919
Speaker 1: his entourage that is like every all genders and everyone's

1324
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: kind of like fucking and indulging. Um, what about you,

1325
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: what would you adapt? Well? I, you know, I think

1326
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 1: my answer would have been a lot different when I

1327
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: was a teenager. Um, you know, looking at this book

1328
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 1: of myths that we have in front of us, the

1329
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: one that I was always the most drawn to was

1330
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: the Artemis story. And like when I was a teenager,

1331
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: I would have loved to do like a sort of

1332
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,719
Speaker 1: I think Artemis has a big, kind of buffy energy,

1333
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 1: so that kind of like you know, young warrior girl

1334
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 1: kind of thing, like this eternal maiden. Um, that would

1335
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: have been really interesting. But well, for the versions, what

1336
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 1: Artemis story does the book tell? Oh, it's just like

1337
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 1: about Artemis and like the guy who's in love with her,

1338
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: who she turns into a deer. The guy watches her

1339
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: bathe non consensually, and then she catches him and she's like,

1340
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,599
Speaker 1: you're a deer now, motherfucker. She's got us of the hunt,

1341
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: by the way, Yes, And like feminism question and the moon,

1342
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: but there's other moon goddesses. I mean, Salne also would

1343
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 1: be a great story, but like also some problematic like

1344
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,799
Speaker 1: consent stuff there, But no, I mean my real answer

1345
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 1: is I think it's kind of expected, but it's also

1346
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: a thing that I can't believe has not been done,

1347
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 1: which is a Medusa retelling. And like I am going

1348
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,720
Speaker 1: to be like kind of obvious and say, like I

1349
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: think it would be incredible to do it as a

1350
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: trans story, Like I think, like the idea of this

1351
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 1: woman being being raped and then like someone like tells

1352
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: on her, Like I think it's a retelling where Athene

1353
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:33,519
Speaker 1: is a turf Medusa's trans um. But but I really think,

1354
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: like if I never get around to it, like that's

1355
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 1: I don't know how there hasn't been like a contemporary

1356
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 1: like reclaiming of Medusa as a feminist figure, because the

1357
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: only ways we've seen her are as a monster in

1358
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 1: someone else's story. And I do think I could do it,

1359
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: but I just don't have the sort of like scholarly

1360
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 1: like ability to really um research antiquity enough to make

1361
01:18:00,680 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: it the tail it could be not But maybe I

1362
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: could do one that's like more vibes well, I mean

1363
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: I I personally like when I when I've started to

1364
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 1: write about dionysis, I don't want it. I would never

1365
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: ever write ancient dialogue like I would never I would

1366
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 1: not I would be writing temporary dialogue. I would still

1367
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: want to set it in that time period, but I

1368
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: don't make who knows. Maybe after I finished my book,

1369
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 1: like that's the next thing I'll work on. I was

1370
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 1: gonna say, I categorically reject the lexicon of get around

1371
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 1: to it, because I think it's something you need to

1372
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: do immediately. And Virgins, if anyone adapts Medusa before Rose does,

1373
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: we will find you and kill you. But also, if

1374
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 1: anyone up there wants to like option trans Medusa, hit

1375
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: me up, tell us what you thought about today's episode.

1376
01:18:56,320 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: We want to hear what your favorite Greek myth is. Yes,

1377
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:05,400
Speaker 1: santag Us at Like a Virgin nine, please leave us

1378
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 1: a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us so much.

1379
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm your co host, Rose Damn You. You You can find

1380
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: me anywhere you want on social at Rose Damn You

1381
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 1: and I'm a friend. You can find me at France

1382
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: Squish go anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin

1383
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 1: anywhere you listen to podcasts. Um rate us on Spotify,

1384
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 1: leave a comment on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is

1385
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:30,360
Speaker 1: an iHeart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with

1386
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,760
Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chitch and

1387
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 1: Nikki Etour until next week, See you later, Virgins. No chance,

1388
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 1: no way, I won't say no no it didn't. I

1389
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: oh