1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,079 Speaker 1: There is a new purge of the traditional Latin Mass 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: all across the United States and Europe, and we know 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: what may be driving it. And the Pope dropped a 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: new teaching document focused on the poor. Do his solutions 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: hold up the prayerful Posse. We'll explore it all next. 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to an important prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: to the show. It's a wonderful way to show your support. 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: Totally free, and you can visit Raymondroyo dot com to 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: always keep up with us. Let's convene at least part 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: of the Prayerful Posse. Canon Lawyer Priest of the Archdiocese 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: of New York, Father Gerald Murray, is here. 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: Father, thank you. 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: This week saw a new phase in this ongoing assault 14 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: against the traditional Latin Mass. We've been reporting this for 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: years now. A new band has been announced in the 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: Diocese of Knoxville, Tennessee. Now that includes Knoxville and Chattanooga, 17 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: another big town. Letters from pastors there announced the TAILM parishes, 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: in participation with Bishop Mark Beckman, will quote begin to 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: transition to the ordinary form of the Mass after December 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: twenty eighth of this year. 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: Father, this drive to implement the late. 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: Pope's directive Pope Francis's directive against the traditional Latin Mass continues. 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: Why what do you think is driving this? 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, but I can suspect that Cardinal Roach, 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 3: who is in charge of the Dicastro for Divine Worship, 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 3: must have discussed this with Pope Leo, because it seems 27 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 3: that these bishops in America are all now moving to 28 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 3: suppress the Latin mass and parishes and then move it 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: either to one or two chapels or to some other arrangement. 30 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: But I can't believe that Cardinal Roach would do this 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: without discussing it with Pope Leo. So I'm wondering. We've 32 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: been hearing that Pope Leo was going to address this. 33 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: He talked about it in his interview with Elise Allen. 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: So you know, the question mark is are the bishops 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 3: here acting imprudently or is this following Roman orders? 36 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very interesting you bring that up. I read 37 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: the local letters that are. 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: Coming out, you know, banning the mass, and this is 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: the traditional Latin Mass, and that's not just about language. 40 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: As we've said time and time on the show, this 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: is the old right of the mass. The ancient right 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: of the Mass that existed before the Vatican counsul. It 43 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: has different intros, there are different prayers, things that were 44 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: completely omitted from the New Mass. So even if you 45 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: celebrated in Latin, there are missing elements then were in 46 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: that traditional tridentine right. 47 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: As it's called now. Father. 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: So far as you mentioned, there's no word yet from 49 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: Pope Leo on the matter. But this father, David Carter, 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: who's the rector of the Basilica of Saints Peter and 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: Paul there in Chattanooga, he writes in the letter, and 52 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to quote this, he said. The local bishop 53 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: quote received a letter from the Dicastro, that's Cardinal Roche's office, 54 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: asking him to respond with his implementation of Tradisionist custodis 55 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: in the Diocese of Knoxville. Bishop Beckman reiterated that he 56 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: loves that people go to the Latin Mass. He does 57 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: not wish ill upon anyone who loves the ancient things, 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: but he very publicly professed an oath of fidelity to 59 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: the Roman Pontiff and the laws of the Church, the 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: same as every priest and deacon under Holy orders end quote. 61 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: So it looks like Cardinal Arthur Roach at the Vatican's 62 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: duct Trinal Office or rather Liturgy Office, is insisting that 63 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: the traditional Mass be stamped out. 64 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: Your thoughts on. 65 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: This, Yeah, it certainly looks like that, and you know, 66 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: but part of the equation that's left out is Cardinal 67 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 3: Roche also has the power to issue dispensations and to 68 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 3: allow the Mass to continue in parishes. So the document 69 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: Tradition his Custodes is kind of self contradictctory because it 70 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: says at one point that this Mass cannot be celebrated 71 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: in parish churches, but that fails to take into account 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: that there are Latin mask groups in the Church, such 73 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: as the Fraternity of Saint Peter in the Institute of 74 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: Christ the King. They operate parishes, they celebrate the Mass 75 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: and parishes, and there were not Their rights were not 76 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: restricted at all by this document, thank god. But if 77 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 3: it's okay to have the Latin Mass celebrate by one 78 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 3: group of priests and a parish, why is it then 79 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 3: not allowed to have it for dioces and priests who 80 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 3: don't belong to one of those orders. So that's a 81 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: contradiction the Vatican has never grappled with. And then Secondly, 82 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 3: Cardinal Roach has granted dispensations to other dioceses to have 83 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: the mass and the parish. So if a bishop really 84 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 3: wants to have this, and I'm pleased with what the 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 3: bishop said, their bishop beck with he has to plead 86 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: with Cardinal Roach and point out that the spiritual welfare 87 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: of the faithful is the whole reason we have parishes. 88 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: And if you say your spiritual welfare doesn't count, you 89 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 3: have to leave. That's giving a counter message that it 90 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 3: makes no sense. I mean, here we are saying immigrants 91 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: are entitled get into the country illegally, but Latin mass 92 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: Cathes can't go to their paris to go to Mass. 93 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. 94 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: No, it's incoherent and it is. I have to say, 95 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: the letters, the emails that I've been getting over the 96 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: last few months have been heartbreaking. I mean, people are 97 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: so broken up about this. They've moved father from other 98 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: parts of the country to be near a community that 99 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: celebrated the Latin Mass, and now in Knoxville, Tennessee, that 100 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: mass is gone. They're getting rid of it. Also, this 101 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: term we're transitioning. The Mass isn't transgender, it's not in 102 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: need of transition. What does that even me, we're transitioning 103 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: the Mass. It's very odd nomenclature in all of this. 104 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: But the rector of the Chattanooga Basilica in saying that 105 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: he will celebrate or he's insisting he's going to celebrate 106 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: the two thousand and two Missile in Latin with all 107 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: the trappings and the incense, and that should be enough. 108 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: He continues, quote, we are not idolators to a particular right. 109 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: As a parish. 110 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: We do not reject the validity of the Second Vatican 111 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: Council or the new Order of the Mass. Don't be 112 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: Protestant if you feel so strongly about the nineteen sixty 113 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: two edition of the Missile that you would separate yourself 114 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: from union with the Church rather than follow the current 115 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: missile of the Universal Church. I urge you to repent. 116 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: This is nothing more than the spirit of Protestantism. 117 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: End quote. Father, your reaction to that, I mean, this 118 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: is hard to talk. 119 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: The suggestion is adherence to the old right is a 120 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: break with Rome, a break with the Pope. 121 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: Well, due respect to my brother priest. The last thing 122 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 3: I would call someone who goes to the nineteen sixty 123 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 3: two Missile celebration of the Mass is either idolatrous or Protestant. 124 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: They're neither, They're Catholic. If his critique is correct, then 125 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 3: the Fraternity of Saint Peter is promoting idolatry and Protestantism 126 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 3: by celebrating the traditional Latin Mass with full authorization by 127 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: the Roman Pontiff. Of course, this isn't the case. He's 128 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 3: What he's saying is that there is no ability for 129 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 3: anyone to choose to go to anything else than the 130 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: new order of the Mass, to which I would say, well, 131 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: then are you going to also outlaw the Anglican usage 132 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: missile which the Holy See approved under the Pontificate of 133 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: post Francis, And I've celebrated that mass. It's a beautiful 134 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: adaptation of the Roman missile and the Book of Common Prayer. 135 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 3: It's completely Catholic. Do people who want to go to 136 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: that are the idolatris because they prefer that to the 137 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 3: current Roman mission? Now, what they're doing, unfortunately, is over 138 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: exaggerating their claim in order to try to motivate people 139 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 3: to act. But that's not how we're supposed to do 140 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: things in the Church. Don't call someone a Protestant because 141 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: they want to go to the Mass. That was used 142 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: at the Second Vatican Council exactly. 143 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: Well, my other big problem here, and you pointed it out. 144 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: I just attended an Armenian right Mass that was so 145 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: beautiful father, with the you know, they have the curtain 146 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: and the whole routine in the middle of the consecration 147 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: is done behind the Holy screen. 148 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: It was incredible. 149 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: Why are we suddenly singling out the Roman rite, the 150 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: ancient Roman right, the Tridentine right as something for boden 151 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: or filthy or dirty when you have all of these 152 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: other beautiful rights in the Church that Catholics in full 153 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: communion with the Pope should be free to celebrate. I 154 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: kind of object to that priest suggesting that people go 155 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: to the Tridentine right of Protestants and they need to repent, 156 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: do they? 157 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 3: You don't have to repent for loving the Mass that 158 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: was celebrated for you know, basically since the beginnings of 159 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 3: the church and then developed organically over time. This was 160 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: the mass that Saint terrez of Liz you attended and 161 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 3: helped her to become a saint. 162 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: Right? 163 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: Is she an idolat because she, if asked proper, probably 164 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: would prefer to stay at that mass. We don't know, 165 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: because of course she went to the Lord, she's a saint. 166 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 3: But you know, this kind of exaggerated language, Unfortunately, it's 167 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: basically defending what I think was a terrible mistake. And 168 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: I say that with all due respect of Pope Francis, 169 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 3: that he had a particular animus, meaning a hostility toward 170 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 3: the old Mass and the people who attended it. And 171 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 3: I think that hostility. You know, he's entitled to his opinions, 172 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: but as the pontiff, he's the shepherd. He shouldn't be 173 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: saying to the flock, if you don't agree with me 174 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: about the old Mass, you can't go to your parish 175 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 3: church and have it. But that makes no sense. 176 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: Well, his argument, it's reinforced in all of these letters 177 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: you're seeing coming out of Tennessee, Michigan, Charlotte, North Carolina, 178 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: all of them to have a theme in common, and 179 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: that is you, people attending this Tridentine Wright, are breaking unity. 180 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: And the way for you to be part of the church, 181 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: unified with the pontiff and the bishops is to attend 182 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the new Mass. 183 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: Only that's you, that's the right of entry. But we 184 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: have all these other rights. 185 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: Who are all the quote quote union churches in the East. 186 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: These are all very at times very ornate, rights very 187 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: different from the Novas Orto. And there's not a felt 188 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: banner or a guitar to be seen. What's the why 189 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: the hang up with the tridentine? 190 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: Right, father? Why is that the target here? 191 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 3: No, if they're if they are engaging in something to 192 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 3: attack the unity to the church, don't blame them, Blame 193 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 3: Pope Benedict because he authorized it. I mean, this is ridiculous, 194 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: but Pope ben is one of the greatest popes we've 195 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 3: had to theologically. He understood the liturgy to a highest degree. 196 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: He thought this was something beautiful, and he spoke about 197 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 3: mutual enrichment. Now, this is an exaggerated campaign to try 198 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 3: and stigmatize the love people have for the traditional Mass. 199 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 3: And it's not gonna work because it's not based in reality. Uh. 200 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: And it's sad because it reflects a completely deaf ear 201 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 3: when it comes to the cry of the of that 202 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 3: we could say the poor, I mean, who's poor into 203 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 3: Paris and that people are thrown out. Uh. You know, 204 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: this is really sad. I was hoping, I am hoping 205 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: that Pope Leo will address this, but this spate of 206 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 3: closures all over the place. Is making me wonder if 207 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 3: Pope Leo's approving this or not. Yeah, it's up to 208 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 3: him to let us know that. But you know, I'm 209 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 3: really upset that this is happening. 210 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I am too, And I'm and I'm stunned, frankly 211 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: because but as you said earlier, Cardinal Roach wouldn't be 212 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: doing this without a conversation with the new Pope. There's 213 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: just no way he would be sending these what are 214 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: essentially cease and desist orders to these dioceses saying, Okay, 215 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: when are you gonna when are you gonna shut down 216 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: that old Mass? When are you going to transition it 217 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: to the new Mass? I mean, this wouldn't be going 218 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: on without papal approval. And there was one line, Father, Uh. 219 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: The Pope gave a homily last weekend, and some people 220 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: pulled this out. He was actually doing an exegesis on 221 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: the Gospel, so you don't know if it actually points 222 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: a finger to the Latin Mass or not, but he 223 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: said something like there are types of worship that numb 224 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: the heart. Some people took that as an indication of 225 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: where he's going with this. 226 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: Your thoughts, Yeah, I don't know, because of course, if 227 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 3: he doesn't specify that it's about the Latin Mass, then 228 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 3: it may be rash to interpret it that way. But 229 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 3: certainly what numbs the heart is false worship, in other words, 230 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 3: engaging in superstition and magic and paganism. That's not what 231 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 3: we want. But again we get back to the central issue. 232 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 3: If people have a love for the traditional Mass, isn't 233 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 3: there room in the church for them? I mean, I've 234 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: celebrated that Mass many times over many many years, and 235 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 3: what I'm always happy about is the people who go 236 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: to it are the most grateful pro papal Catholic you 237 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: can find. They love the fact that jump all the 238 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 3: second in Benedict heard their cries and gave them something 239 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 3: which produces no harm. By the way, the whole idea 240 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 3: that there's disunity in the church. You want to know 241 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 3: where there's disunity is where people hate the Latin Mass 242 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: and even hate the New Order because they change it 243 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: so much. As in Germany, you won't find a heretical 244 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: experience that destroys the unity of the church. Go to 245 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 3: a German diocese where a woman gives the sermon, and 246 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 3: then you'll find that that is where the Mass is 247 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 3: becoming a source of scandal and disunity because the bishops 248 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: are allowing things that are forbidden. 249 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Father, I have to say, when you talk 250 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: of numbing the heart, what numbs the heart is a 251 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: kind of corporate, cold, distant, ever evolving liturgy that really 252 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: has no hold on tradition or is attached to anything substantive. 253 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: That's why you see the young people flocking to the 254 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: old right, and not only the old right, the old traditions. Look, 255 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: Mother Angelica had this right forty years ago. She was 256 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: complaining that in the sixties, seventies into the eighties, dismantling 257 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: of tradition and people felt at sea. Well guess what, 258 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: we're back to the future again. We're back where we 259 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,359 Speaker 1: started with and now the old Mass is under attack. Anyway, 260 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: we'll leave that for now. We'll continue thought. 261 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 3: One more thought. Yeah, remember that song from the sixties. 262 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: They'll know we are Christians by our love. Yes, I 263 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: can't sing that anymore because some people are experiencing the love. 264 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: You know, they didn't call the shoulder they got, you know, 265 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 3: the bombs rush at it. 266 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: They'll know we are Christians because we're in the isolated 267 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: chapel in the woods. 268 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, the only the only people who could make the trick. Okay. 269 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: Last week, Pope Leo made headlines once again. He was 270 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: caught on a hot mic at a meeting at the 271 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: Vatican with Bishop Mark Sites of l Paso, Texas. He's 272 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: the chair of the USCCB's Migration Committee, and the Pope 273 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: expressed his wish that the US bishops would speak more 274 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: forcefully in defense of migrants. 275 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: This is a bit of that video. 276 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: But father, what do you make of this and the 277 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: emphasis that Pope Leo seems to be giving to the 278 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: plight of migrants. This is a continuation of Pope Francis 279 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: legal or illegal is never really a distinction made? 280 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, we see, But that's the crucial distinction, because the 281 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: issue here in America is not that foreigners want to 282 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,479 Speaker 3: come here and live here. We have a great experience 283 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: with legal immigration in this country. You know, I lived 284 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 3: in a parish in northern Manhattan. You had a lot 285 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 3: of people who were legally there and they were from 286 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: different countries. Now, we have a tradition in this country 287 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: of inviting people in and that's good. Now, the question 288 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: here is law breaking to gain access to the society, 289 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: and then a legal permanence, and then all the things 290 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 3: that go along with it, and then all the abuses 291 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 3: that the system gets rise to, such as gangs coming 292 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: in from Mexico and Colombia and Venezuela, violent people selling drugs. 293 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: I mean, when you had the twenty million people in 294 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 3: the Biden administration time coming into the United States, was 295 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: this just an inn and walk in the park to 296 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: you know, to have better access to something in life. No, 297 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: this was a bomb's rush. And I use that just 298 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 3: as a colloquial term. The magrants aren't bombs, but some 299 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 3: of them are criminals. We have to recognize that. So, 300 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: I mean, why is it that you can barge your 301 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: way into the United States and then be defended by 302 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: the hierarchs. But if I tried to barge my way 303 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 3: into an episcopal palace and take up residence there and 304 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: bring in fifty other people, they'd call the police. You know, 305 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 3: you have to have order in society, in the nation, 306 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: in the household, and the episcopal palace whatever. 307 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, this is the this is the point the 308 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: church and a good solid society is ordered. There are laws, 309 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: there are rules, and we're seeing kind of the fudging 310 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: of all of that. But I do find it difficult 311 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: to unravel why this fixation with Rome on immigration policy. 312 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: This is not your affair. Salvation of souls is your affair. 313 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: And look, if they were worried about that, like the 314 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: spiritual care of migrants, I'd be like, well, this is 315 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: their job. Of course they should be defending that. But 316 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: the enforcement of a law in a given country and 317 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: calling it inhuman when it's the actions of the criminal 318 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: elements in that country that are in human is bizarre 319 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: to me. His recent exhortation, which is a teaching document 320 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: delixit Tay the Pope calls for the recognition of the 321 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: human dignity of these aliens seeking migrating from one place 322 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: to another. But one of the human dignity fathers the 323 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: citizens and the country's right to protect those citizens. 324 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 3: Sure well, I mean there's a lot there, Raymond. Human 325 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: dignity consists in not breaking the law. Okay. The only 326 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 3: way you could say human dignity is promoted by allowing 327 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 3: illegal aliens in is by saying the law or prevent 328 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 3: they're coming in is an offense against human dignity. 329 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 2: It's not. 330 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 3: You know, we've pointed out many times in discussions here 331 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: in a DWTN almost entire world. Certainly most people third world, 332 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 3: if offered the opportunity, they would come into this country, 333 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 3: right because you know, you go from scarcity, poverty, no 334 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 3: rule of law, no medical help all the rest to 335 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 3: come in here. And there's a welfare state in law 336 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 3: at many places, and then there's a lot of economic opportunity, 337 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: et cetera. Now is that sustainable and can we do that? 338 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 3: Of course not. You couldn't have this country overwhelmed by 339 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 3: five hundred million people showing up. So laws that are 340 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 3: reflect the nation's desire to have an orderly process to 341 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 3: come in. They're completely just. The Church always recognizes that. 342 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 3: So I'm afraid we're getting into the adhering to a 343 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 3: left wing liberal agenda of globalism in which borders are 344 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 3: treated as an offense. There should be no nation states, 345 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 3: there should just be a world governance. That was hinted 346 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 3: at in one of the documents in the Pope Francis's pontificate. 347 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 2: That's not where we. 348 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: Want to go. That's a denial of the order of 349 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 3: society that has arisen ever since man was created. You know, 350 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: we went from families to tribes to nations, and then 351 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 3: we have the international community, but doesn't destroy anything below it. 352 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. 353 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: Well, as you pointed out last week, if this, if 354 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: this socialist utopia were so attractive to people, we'd be 355 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: seeing boats going from Miami to Cuba, not the other 356 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: way around. I mean, that's the direction of people are coming. 357 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: They're seeking a free market, which that is the cure 358 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: that has helped so many out of poverty, given people 359 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: enormous opportunities. But this document really downplays it. There's recent 360 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: people teaching sort of poo poos. In fact, the Pope 361 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: dismisses Now whether this is Pope Francis or now Pope Leo, 362 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: they both kind of take co ownership of this document, 363 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: but he dismisses all the data, what he call pseudo 364 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: data that supports a free market approach to helping poverty 365 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: and those in it. 366 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 3: H Yeah. No, And this document, the new one from 367 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: Pope Leo, repeats with Pope Francis said, the economy that 368 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: kills and they're not talking about North Korea, Communist China, Cuba, 369 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 3: nicaragu or Venezuela. Let's look at facts. I don't know, 370 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 3: was it five million people have left Venezuela during the 371 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 3: communist dictatorship. They drug cartels are sponsored in part by 372 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 3: the government. You know, they jail opposition leaders. You know, 373 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: the woman who just won the Nobel Peace Prizes of 374 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 3: Venezuelan political candidate who couldn't be elected because it was 375 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 3: a rigged election and the real candidate was forbidden from running, 376 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: so she was the substitute. You want to talk about 377 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 3: economy that kills, where the human spirit is crushed, we 378 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 3: should have a papal document about communists inspired governments and 379 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 3: the evil they do to their people, not about free 380 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: market economy. And there's always room for improvement in any society, 381 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 3: of course, but the basic justice is shown that any 382 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 3: Venezuela who afflicted once it come to the United States, 383 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 3: which is worse. 384 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's elementary. I mean it's elementary. 385 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: And as you said, there are always excesses in any 386 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: economy because people, people have access to centers, and there's 387 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's quote chrony, capitalism and all kinds 388 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: of things that creep in. But critique that not an 389 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: entire system with a broad brush and point to some 390 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: utopia that simply doesn't exist. But anyway, it seems as 391 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: if the Pope's message is being received on the migrant front. 392 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: There was a eucharistic. 393 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: Procession father by a pair of Jesuits this past week, 394 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: but they went to an ice detention facility in Broadview, Illinois. 395 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: They tried to gain access to the facility and were denied. 396 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: What do you make of this? 397 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: I thought we weren't supposed to politicize the Eucharist or 398 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 1: play politics at the communion rail well. 399 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: I regret that they did that because this was a 400 00:21:54,640 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 3: staged performative act. They had absolute knowledge that without permission 401 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 3: they wouldn't be allowed in. So therefore they were doing 402 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 3: it to be filmed, being denied entrance which they knew 403 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 3: they were never going to have. The Holy Euchres was 404 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 3: exposed in the monstrance. We just had the eucharistic procession 405 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 3: across the US for the Eucharistic Congress in Indianapolis, and 406 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: people were kneeling on the sides, you know, as the 407 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 3: Euchres was being procesessed. Here, instead it's being accompanied by 408 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 3: a flash mob of activists and photographers and film crews 409 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 3: in order to make a point. I object to that. 410 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 3: I hope that the local bishop would speak to the 411 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 3: superior of those priests, because this is not the Holy Eugros, 412 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 3: the Holy body and Blood of Christ, and we do 413 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 3: not use it as a political tool to shame the police, 414 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 3: or ice or anybody else. 415 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well I love that. 416 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: There was a non unhabited sister who afterwards took the microphone, 417 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: and the two Jesuits are standing there, one holding the 418 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: monstrance with the cope and everything. I don't know why 419 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: he's just standing out there, you know, like he's carrying 420 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: a walking stick. But she said, we tried to get 421 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: into the ice facility, but they wouldn't let us bring 422 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: the sacred bread to the inmates. 423 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 3: Sacred bread, I mean, there is no sacred bread. It's 424 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 3: the Holy body and Blood of Christ. Now call it 425 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 3: the bread of life. But we're careful that we don't 426 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 3: say this is bread. This is the body of Christ. Yeah, 427 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 3: so as you confuse people. 428 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: So that was an interesting tell you know that we're 429 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: not even sure what we're doing here, but we're using 430 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: the external and I really I share your objection to this. 431 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: We shouldn't be using the objective, the traditions, the ancient 432 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: practices of the faith to ply our political agenda and 433 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: basically cause a riot, create a performative moment for the 434 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: cameras with a political end, not a spiritual one. So 435 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: it's the whole thing was heartbreaking to me watching it. Okay, 436 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: I have some happy news amid all this confusion. We 437 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: all need a spiritual recharge. I know I do, so 438 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: I'm going on a cruise to the Grecian Eye in 439 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: the footsteps of the Apostles Saint Paul and Saint John. 440 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: We're going to Philippi, Thessalonia, Athens, corinth Crete, Patmos, and Ephesus, 441 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: where I've never been, to visit the Blessed Virgin's House. 442 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: Monseigneur Christopher Nolty will be joining me for daily mass 443 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: and reflections. And space is very limited, but this eleven 444 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: day cruise, say in September of twenty twenty six, is 445 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: going to be incredible. 446 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: Go to Raymondarroyo dot com. You can reserve a spot there. 447 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: It's going to be one of those life changing trips 448 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 1: Raymond Royo dot com. The Vatican announced this week that 449 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: it has chosen Father as a canon lawyer. 450 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: You will love this. 451 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: They've finally chosen judges to decide that case of the 452 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: disgrace Jesuit priest and artist Marco Rupnik, who has been 453 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: accused of sexually abusing over two dozen religious sisters. His 454 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: religious artwork is displayed all over the world, and up 455 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: until recently, it was on the Vatican's own website. The 456 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: Five Judges a women in clergy who do not hold 457 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: courial positions in the Vatican, the idea being they can 458 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: operate independently. Now, Rupnik is being charged farther canonically, But 459 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: the question is, I mean, I know he's charged with 460 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: sex crimes and a religious crime as well. How does 461 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: that work canonically? 462 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 3: Well, let me say I'm glad that the judges were appointed, 463 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 3: but I'm disappointed we didn't get their names. And secondly, 464 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 3: I'm disappointed the Holy See highlight instead of their names. 465 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 3: The fact that they were appointing women to it justice 466 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 3: is irrelevant whether it's a man or a woman on 467 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: the bench. So they're trying to score political points by 468 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 3: saying women are going to be on the bench. Judges 469 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: are appointed because of their competence in the matter at hand. Now, 470 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 3: the charges specifically, we have to see what you know, 471 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: it's called a libellus or a charge sheet. What it 472 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: is that the Holy See is going to present to 473 00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: these judges. But certainly there's enough evidence already out there 474 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 3: that the roup Nik has been an inveterate sex abuser 475 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 3: and took advantage of his position as spiritual director to 476 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 3: inflict criminal behavior upon people unwilling participants in his crime. 477 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 3: So I think he's going to be convicted and hopefully 478 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 3: removed from the priesthood. 479 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. 480 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: Also this week rather bizarre story. A last Friday, a 481 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: man entered Saint Peter's Basilica. Father he climbed onto the 482 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: altar of the Confession beneath Bernini's Boldacano, disrobed and proceeded 483 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: to urinate on the altar in front of pilgrims who 484 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: were coming through the Holy Door and people attending mass 485 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: on side chapels. Poblio's ordered a penitential right to be 486 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: performed at the Basilica, which has been performed. Tell us 487 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: what that penitential right is and what do you make 488 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: of this? This is the third time we've seen somebody 489 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: desecrate the altar there at Saint Peter's. 490 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: Yes, no, well, I'll start with the penitential right. Of course, 491 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 3: that's to the sanctity of the House of God has 492 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 3: been offended by this horrendous behavior, which is gravely sinful 493 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: to a sacrilege being perpetrated in the House of God. 494 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 3: So the penitential right is performed, and that's a good thing. 495 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 3: That's a sign to the community that this kind of 496 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 3: behavior offends God and is horrific. But the second point 497 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 3: is you're right, this is the third time there's been 498 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 3: an outrage like this, which basically means a security service 499 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 3: at Saint Peter's Basilica is deficient, and it's deficient. It's 500 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 3: grave ways. The idea that you could have a person 501 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 3: do this kind of activity gain access to an area 502 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 3: we shouldn't be means that there's not enough security present. 503 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 3: And I know that's a cost of an expensive thing, 504 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 3: but it has to occur. There has to be more 505 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 3: plain clothes police in the church there at Saint Peter's 506 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 3: to protect it, because you know, you need to go 507 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: through metal detectors and all the rest to get in, 508 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 3: So that's good, but once you're in, this is the 509 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 3: kind of thing that's happening. So no, I regret this, 510 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 3: and I sympathize with the manager of Saint Peter's because 511 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 3: the last thing you want is to look at the 512 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: church as an area for potential crime scene. But you 513 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 3: have to face reality. This is the third time, and 514 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 3: people get in bold and if they see other people 515 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 3: get but they're going to do it, so has to 516 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: be a show of force. 517 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 518 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: My concern is we're going to get the copycats. And 519 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: this guy may have been one. You the guy jumping 520 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: up there throwing the candelabras on the floor. There was 521 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: somebody else who did some of the crazy thing, and 522 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: then this man. 523 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: This shouldn't happen. 524 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: And you would think, because it's it is kind of 525 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: far removed from the public areas, you would think this 526 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't happen or would be difficult. Somebody would grab the 527 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: guy before he got up, you know, a mounted the 528 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: steps to the altar. But for whatever reason, father, I 529 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: agree with you. The security there is just lacking, which 530 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: I can't fathom. Actually, in another story, I saw this 531 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: and thought of you. Auxiliary Bishop Ludger Schreppers in Essen, Germany, 532 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: condemned an act of reparation performed by four other bishops 533 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: last week. The act of reparation was made in response 534 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: to that so called LGBT pilgrimage that moved through the 535 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: Holy Door into Saint Peter's basilica. Back in September, Bishop 536 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: Shepherds said the following quote. It is a scandalous sign 537 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: of ecclesiastical narrow mindedness and an open rejection of all 538 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: those who long for a church that truly lives the Gospel. Father, 539 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: your thoughts on Bishop Shepher's reaction to the four brother 540 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: bishops and that prayer of reparation for this event. 541 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: Well, the story, of course, is that Bishop Shepherds is 542 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 3: using this comment opportunity to promote homosexual lifestyle in the church. 543 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 3: The church is not living the Gospel when we condemn 544 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 3: people who sinfully desecrated church by walking in with gay 545 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: pride flags and with obs entities written on their t shirts, 546 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 3: when men are holding hands as if they were married couple. 547 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 3: I mean this. And this was all provocative because this 548 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 3: was part of an organized pilgrimage promoting the homosexual lifestyle. 549 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 3: And you know that's a subject we've talked about, but 550 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: it was really outrageous and their way there are these 551 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 3: people were allowed to enter Saint Peter's, one of them 552 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: holding like a gay multi colored rainbow cross. That's the 553 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 3: bad that's the mess that goes against the Gospel. So 554 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 3: Bishop Shepherds unfortunately reflects the German hierarchy, which is basically 555 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: aligned with the secular liberal agenda on matters of sex 556 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: and morality, and he's outraged when fellow bishops do what 557 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 3: bishops have done for the entire history of the Church. 558 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: It was he's defend the doctrine of the faith. No, 559 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: he's the one that needs to change his way of thinking. 560 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: Father Jerry, as always, I thank you, grateful that you 561 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: joined us, and if you want more of the prayerful Posse, 562 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or the 563 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande podcast wherever you get yours on behalf of 564 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray until the Posse rides again, Stay the course, 565 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: follow the light. I'm Raymond. We'll see you next time. 566 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: Hopefully we'll bring Bob back next time. Father we miss them. 567 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and 568 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: DP Studios, and is available on the iHeartRadio app or 569 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.