1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today, my 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: guest is Amit Sankaran, CEO of Religion of Sports. That's 5 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: a production company founded in twenty seventeen by Tom Brady, 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: Michael Strahan and Galka Chopra. Sankaran has been CEO from 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: the start. Sports fans are no doubt familiar with the 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: terrific documentaries and docuseries that have come from Religion of Sports. 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: They include recent projects on such major figures as Simone Biles, 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Connor McGregor, Draymond Green, and many more. 11 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: In our conversation, Sankaran and I discussed the company's latest partnership, 12 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: this time with tennis grade Coco Gough, and we talk 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: about what it is that makes sports and storytelling such 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: a potent combination, and as ever, we talk about the 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: state of the content marketplace in general and where Religion 16 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: of Sports is finding the most opportunity out there. A 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: Meet Sankaran, CEO of Religion of Sports, Thanks so much 18 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: for joining me. 19 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: Thanks, Cynthia. I'm excited to be. 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk to you. I'm a big consumer 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: of sports content, a big consumer of ESPN, and I've 22 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: seen a number of your really well produced documentary series. 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to start with you at that thirty thousand 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: foot view level because your content production company was founded 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, and I do believe you were ahead 26 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: of the curve of seeing the real growth market for 27 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: documentary content related to sports. Shoulder programming as it's called, 28 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: it really complements and can extend people's fandom and drive 29 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: interest in what's going on and off the field or 30 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: the track, or wherever it happens to be. We're seeing 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: so many athletes are interested in media, taking their brands 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: and their followings, to creating media, to launching brands, doing 33 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: all kinds of brand partnerships. We're seeing this explosion of 34 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: athletes as entrepreneurial engines and with a lot of them 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: having a lot of interest in media. What is driving now. 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: I think that sports in general are starting at that 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 3: highest level is obviously, if you look at all the metrics, 38 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 3: the number one most viewed fas across the media spectrum 39 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: whether you're looking at last year's top one hundred programs 40 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: all being ninety eight being NFL, or you look across 41 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: content consumed now on YouTube, YouTube TV and so forth, 42 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 3: you look at the rights deals. I mean, sports in 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: general are booming. 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: And it's definitely keeping the lights on for linear television 45 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: as well. So basically it's the glop of the whole thing. 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: The attention drives I think much of this, and then 47 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: you go down a level to your point, and now 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: with social media, individual athletes are becoming their own brands 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 3: and personalities, and so they are interacting directly one on 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: one with their fans. So now that connectivity allows for 51 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: we see Lebron James obviously on the court, then you 52 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 3: interact with him on social media, and so now you 53 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 3: want to learn more. So that's kind of set the stage, 54 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: and then I think that has created this explosion, especially 55 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 3: obviously the rise of internet, mobile and so forth in 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 3: the last decade, where people are interested in the stories, 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: People want to get a closer look, and between the 58 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: live and the day to day social there is this 59 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: sort of in depth avenue that kind of is what 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: we've carved a lane around, which is premium unscripted documentary, 61 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: whether it's archival, real time storytelling, and so that could 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 3: be following someone in real time, it could be telling 63 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 3: their backstory, it could be a combination, It could be 64 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 3: a lot of what we Where we started our business 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: was answering the question why sports matter. So it was 66 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: never about what's happening on the field, on the court, 67 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: but just what is the deeper hidden meaning behind sports? 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: And you have some news about it partnership with Coco 69 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: Goff that I want to draw you out on. But 70 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: before we move, I want to ask you about the 71 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: name religion of sports. I can see how that animates 72 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: what you do. 73 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: And religious sports is Gotham. I'm my business partner in. 74 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: One of our co founders originally came up with this 75 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 3: idea because he grew up Gothamchropa in the household of 76 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: Deepak Chropra, and so he would say, well everything when 77 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 3: he grew up Deepak talked about in the world of spirituality, 78 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: he lived, felt and breathing sports. He said when he 79 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: grew up in Boston, said, I'm sitting here in Boston 80 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 3: with thousands of thousands of fans and we have nothing 81 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 3: in common. When we're rooting for the same thing, to 82 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 3: get the same outcome. That was the essence of our business, 83 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: and so throughout that we've stayed true to that, which 84 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: is again this why sports Matter theme, and so whether 85 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 3: you're talking about a five minute short piece. We did 86 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: the series of several seasons on Apple Plus called Greatness Code, 87 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 3: which was trying to visualize flow state in a very 88 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 3: very compelling visual way, all the way to ten hours 89 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 3: of content with Serena Williams on ESPN. 90 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: You did that fantastic Simone Biles series that really just 91 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: not only explained her background, but the mentality that you 92 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: have to have to be that good at that age 93 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: and to keep striving. That's the stuff that is so compelling. 94 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: Not to get all Joseph Campbell about it, but there's 95 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: been times when I've been at sporting events or watching 96 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: on TV and being so invested and it really does 97 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: strike you that at a time of incredible polarization, alienation, 98 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: and so from the get go with the name of 99 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: your company, you got my attention. So you started in 100 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, Gotham Chopra, Tom Brady, Michael Strahan, you were 101 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: on board from the get go as CEO. 102 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: Yes, Gotham, Tom and Michael started a show called Religion 103 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 3: of Sports, which was licensed to AT and T Direct 104 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: TV's audience network at the time. And what we basically 105 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 3: did is said, how do we make this thing of business? 106 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 3: Because to your point, the brand resonates. Everyone knows right away, 107 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 3: no matter where they came from, whether it was Barcelona 108 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: and saying Barcelona, VERUS Real Madrid or Alabama Auburn, everybody 109 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: knows instinctively to what Religion of Sports stands for. What 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 3: it means, well, roll time there you go exactly or 111 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: a hook of So that's how the business started and 112 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: has evolved. 113 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken. Some oone Biles joined as a partner. 114 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, she joined the board this past year. Correct. 115 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: And then your latest esteemed athlete to sign on also 116 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: is Coco GoF fresh off of an incredible performance at 117 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: the US Open. Tell me about how that partnership came about. 118 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 3: It came about in a very authentic way. Coco, who's 119 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 3: extremely young and very successful, has big ambitions. Her families 120 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: had big ambitions. They've had Coca Gough Enterprises for the 121 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 3: past five years and they've been thinking about different ways 122 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: to take expand commercially, but also very creatively. They started Iraq, 123 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: which is her media business, and over the last several 124 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: years have produced content on the social side, on the 125 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 3: brand new content side, and so forth. And we started 126 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: a conversation and got them and I met with them 127 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 3: as well at the Super Bowl this past year and 128 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: started a conversation. The conversation was really about what does 129 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 3: Coco find important, and she talked a lot about her 130 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: own resilience, her own determination, her own hard work, her 131 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 3: own aspiration, and at a very young age, how she's 132 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: been able to do such amazing things win a Grand Slam, 133 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: but also wants to be thinking about how does she 134 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: lift up others, how does she tell other stories? And 135 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: so that's where the conversation in an authentic way came from. 136 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: She obviously has seen some of the work. Her team 137 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: has seen some of the work that we've done. That's 138 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 3: what's really distinct about our businesses. We're not one athlete's 139 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 3: production company. We're not about focusing on one thing. We're 140 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: really focused on storytelling and we have a team of storytellers. 141 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: We have many directors, filmmakers, visual artists on staff, and 142 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: really what we're focused on is evangelizing the brand that 143 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 3: I described, and so what Coco saw is how we 144 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 3: helped elevate stories with others. I think that's what we're 145 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 3: really excited as a partnership to do is she's got 146 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: a clear point of view, her team as a clear 147 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 3: point of view. We'll be here to help Creative bring 148 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 3: that to life in so many different ways. 149 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: Are there any specific projects on the docket yet or 150 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: are you still kind of in the figuring it out phase. 151 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 3: We've already done one and we're about to start a 152 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 3: second with one of her brand partners. But yes, we 153 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: have been already had multiple conversations with the team around 154 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 3: what can we do in the branded space that's a 155 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: little different, how do we think about social slash YouTube, 156 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 3: and then what do we think about our core on 157 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 3: the premium months christa side and how do we take 158 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: her passion and themes, whether it's determination, resilience, black and 159 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: around communities, kids, you know, all these different topics and 160 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: think about how do we bring things to life in 161 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: different ways. 162 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: There's a lot of athletes interested in media doing a 163 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: lot of things. What have you found for religion of sports? 164 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: What makes a fit for a. 165 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: Partner well, there's one. 166 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 3: One definition of a partner can be someone we're partnering 167 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: with on a piece of content. What our creative team Gotham, 168 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 3: Lauren Victor, all the people on our team say all 169 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: the time, is pushing really the subject? What does that 170 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: person have to say? Why are we doing this? It 171 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: cannot just be well, I've got the good social media profile, 172 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 3: so let's do something. It's what's the point of view? 173 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 3: What are we really talking about here? And this happens 174 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: with all of our content, and you know, it actually 175 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: gets uncomfortable at times because sometimes it's quite you start 176 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: asking questions of subjects that they're not ready to answer 177 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 3: or they don't know the answer to. It can be 178 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 3: I want to tell the story about this moment in 179 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 3: my life, but then still you have to answer the 180 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: question why what is important around that story? Or it 181 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: could be with a team we just we just launched 182 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 3: a series with Birmingham the soccer club that Tom Brady 183 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: is an investor and owner in an already owner on 184 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 3: Amazon that launched it a couple months ago, and that 185 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 3: one was following that team. But the real through line 186 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: there was this vision from Tom Wagner, who is the 187 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 3: majority owner was to take this city, Birmingham, the second 188 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: biggest city in the UK that had this team that 189 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: was relegated and has been around for over one hundred 190 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: and fifty years, and say, how do I elevate this 191 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: ten levels over the next decade. What is going to 192 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: be the long term vision and how do I change 193 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 3: the community and culture? 194 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 2: And so that was the. 195 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 3: Story that we that we we got behind. So it 196 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: wasn't just following the soccer team. It's about the culture 197 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: and the community and then a decade long plan. So 198 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 3: and then going back to your question when it comes 199 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: to Simone and Coco, which is how do we see 200 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: a broader partnership beyond one piece of content? And so 201 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 3: Coco also follow that on the same thing. She's such 202 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: an incredible athlete, but at the same time has this 203 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: big ambition, has a team around her who's ready to 204 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 3: put resources together. 205 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: And that's just not her core team, but even her 206 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: w ME team who wants to build this. 207 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: Where do you find your biggest opportunities, what's your flywheel 208 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: if you will, around content? How do you make it 209 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: work as an independent production entity? 210 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: And what's really interesting exciting right now is the core 211 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 3: of our business. We've built, as I mentioned as a 212 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: creative hub, and so we've got well we would describe 213 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: as the best storytellers. And these are not just sports 214 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: media stories. It's best storytellers full stop, in the business, 215 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: in the especially in the unscripted vertical. And so that 216 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: includes just got them. But then we've got Bryant and 217 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 3: Lauren Liam other directors on staff. We've got amazing visual 218 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: effects team members Chelsea who's going to be leading the 219 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 3: charge with Jonathan, our team with Coco Victor. So we've 220 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: got a creative hub. And the thing that's exciting now 221 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 3: is we're able to deploy what people have seen now 222 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 3: over multiple years is the quality that comes out of 223 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 3: that hub is on parallel and so now we're able 224 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: to deploy that in different ways. And so to answer 225 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 3: your question, there is the typical independent production model, which is, 226 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 3: you know, Netflix or someone may come and say, hey, 227 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: we really want you all to produce this content with 228 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 3: Simon or Aaron Rodgers or Connor McGregor, which are all 229 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: projects we've. 230 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 2: Done with Netflix. 231 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 3: Here is a fee and here's a bunch of money 232 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 3: to make it happen. Go produce it, and then we 233 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: own it and retain the rights and you get a 234 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: fee for your work and you get the credit and 235 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 3: move on. So that still happens, and I would say 236 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: that's a big part of our business. 237 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 2: Still. 238 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: There's another model, which is we've capital over the last 239 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: few years, and so we can put capital to work, 240 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 3: and we have done that, and so usually we do 241 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 3: that when either we believe in a story so much 242 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: that we think it may not happen the typical route, 243 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 3: but it will if we put some money against it, 244 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: because we think we can show the world what it is, 245 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: or we think that putting money against it will allow 246 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 3: us to create a scenario where we are able to 247 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: retain the rights and or create a bidding war and 248 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: an outco. We're doing that right now with a project 249 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: that we will announce next year. But we're working with 250 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: a major athlete to create a content that we'll have 251 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 3: a theatrical component first and then flip that into a 252 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 3: streaming deal as well, and will also allow us to 253 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 3: own the rights long term and do multiple seasons. And 254 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: so that's that playbook. And then the thing that's exciting 255 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 3: now that's happening, it's really accelerated a lot in the 256 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 3: last year is getting brands engaged in content as well. 257 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: So we've created multiple deals where working with Roku and 258 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: other platforms where we are are creating the content. It's 259 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: the same type of content we create anyway, but brands 260 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: are actually paying for it. That's been an accelerant this 261 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 3: year for sure. 262 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: Are you finding more flexibility even at some of the 263 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: larger streamers in terms of willingness to maybe bargain a 264 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: little bit on territories or certain kind of rights. 265 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: I think it all depends. It depends a little bit 266 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 3: on price point. Is a project that we did that 267 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: we licensed starting in the UK for a lower price point, 268 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 3: and then we were able to start doing territory by 269 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 3: territory deals and it became flexible for some of our 270 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 3: bigger projects where there may be also talent fees and 271 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 3: all kinds of things happening. The streamers AMO others will 272 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: just say, if I'm paying X amount of money, I 273 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 3: need to own all rights and perpetuity, and that's just 274 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 3: what it is. And the only way around that is 275 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 3: again going to the other path, which is no, no, 276 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: we financed it, we're making it. But I would say 277 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: it's on that first front what you described, it's consolidation 278 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 3: over the last three years. Just to be candid has 279 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 3: been made it more challenging versus less. 280 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about your infrastructure. Do you have 281 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: the ability to produce yourself? 282 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: We have produce everything in the house. We have filmmakers, 283 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 3: DPS and then also editors. We have post production here 284 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: in the office, color make sound design, all that stuff. 285 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: That must be a big help because you have a 286 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: lot more control. 287 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: Control on timing, control over quality. That was a rationale 288 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: and the logic for the original investment. One example is 289 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: we're doing this series called Nexus, which is about the 290 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 3: fastest six weeks in sports in the WNBA between the 291 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 3: launch of the end of the college basketball season for 292 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: women and then the start of the WNBA season including 293 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 3: the draft, which is six weeks. We got brand partners 294 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: from Chase to Door, Dashed and Crustables to be involved. 295 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 3: A lot of that was an impetus to we want 296 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 3: to be involved with the quality and the work we're doing, 297 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 3: but also be involved with women's sports. 298 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: Are there any kind of larger initiatives, anything on the 299 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: horizon that we should be watching out for legit of sports. 300 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: We touched on to the partners with the Cocoa, which 301 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: we're really exciting about. 302 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: I mentioned the Birmingham project on Amazon, which is which 303 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: has gone really well. 304 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: It's been really fun. 305 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 3: We have several more that we're announcing before the end 306 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: of the year as well, which we're excited about. 307 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: I have no doubt that your phone has run because 308 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: you have great productions and there's a lot of demand 309 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: for very strong content producers. Are you happy where you are? 310 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: Are you entertaining ideas of potentially larger partnerships for the 311 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: company itself. 312 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 3: We've always been thinking about more concrete international expansion. Birmingham 313 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: was a four A. We partnered with this to a 314 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: company there called Whisper, which has been a great partnership. 315 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 3: Whisper does a lot of live production, but they also 316 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 3: have a smaller doc unit, and so it was a 317 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 3: co production partnership where they were on the ground in 318 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: the UK and took Gotham, myself, some of our team 319 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 3: out to the UK quite a bit and we've had 320 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: lots of conversations with companies there. So I think on 321 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: the horizon is something internationally, whether it's Europe at the 322 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 3: least and so forth. And then I think the other 323 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 3: part is I mentioned the creative hub where I think 324 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 3: we see that going over time is a very organic 325 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: for us growth in shorter form in particular YouTube and 326 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: other content. And so some of that can be hires, 327 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: which we've already made some, but some of it could 328 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 3: also be companies that we could partner. 329 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: With as an independent. Is it hard to balance the 330 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: desire to invest in really cool R and D and 331 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: things that may or may not pan out versus more 332 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: tried and true. Is that a juggling act for you 333 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: in terms of resources? 334 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 3: For sure, we did have the luxury raised fifty million 335 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: dollars in twenty two which allowed us to do a 336 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 3: lot of things and including we bought a small company 337 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: in the UK. We've invested our infrastructure, We've made certain 338 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 3: bets on content and taking some bets on some things that, 339 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 3: as I allude to on the theatrical side, for example, 340 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 3: that might be risky. But at the same time, to 341 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: your point, I mean, especially what's happened in the last 342 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: few years run conolidation, we were always thinking about the 343 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: right balance of resources and the right balance of is 344 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 3: this something that's going to turn into our return given 345 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 3: the dynamics of things that are changing in our landscape 346 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 3: as well. That's where we go back to what are 347 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: our core strengths, which is a mention storytelling a few times. 348 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 3: I think the second thing for US now has been 349 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 3: we clearly have access to talent and the ability to 350 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 3: engage with the COCA, GOVSA, somem and Miiles, Tom Brady, 351 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 3: Steph Curry's others of the world that we've worked with many, 352 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 3: many times. And then the third for US's relationships at 353 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 3: a very senior level with networks and leagues and teams 354 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 3: and so forth. 355 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: Well, there is certainly no shortage of subjects and interesting 356 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: stories rolling around, not only in not only in US sports, 357 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: but certainly streaming has opened up the world. My last 358 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: question for you, I mean, is you mentioned you had 359 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: a significant fundraise in twenty twenty two. What did the 360 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: process of doing that fundraise and teach you about where 361 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: investors see the heat in content? 362 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 3: I think it's changed over the last three years. I 363 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 3: would say what I described as our core competitive vantages 364 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 3: is still or exactly why investors invest. I think the 365 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 3: value at the time that was attribute to talent was 366 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 3: potentially higher than it is now. If you look at 367 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 3: some of the valuations for other companies and everything from 368 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: Candle Media to spring Hill at the time and other things, 369 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 3: and it's probably come down in a healthy way over 370 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 3: the last few years. But I think in that context, 371 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 3: to your point, what is still core is still the 372 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 3: same as probably it was fifty years ago. When you 373 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: look at the Disney flywheel, which is how do you 374 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,959 Speaker 3: get access to something that demands attention and then how 375 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: do you build a flywheel and an ecosystem around it? 376 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 3: And so for us that is Religions Sports as a brand, 377 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 3: and then it's kind of these partnerships. 378 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: Like the thing that's. 379 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 3: Exciting about Cocoa again, bringing it back to that conversation, 380 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: is not just one partnership of one talent, but a 381 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 3: set of content around a set of themes that she's 382 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 3: excited about, which could expand from short form to long 383 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 3: form to then who knows, maybe there's products over time 384 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 3: and so forth. That's what investors are excited about, is 385 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 3: how do you see something that can spawn much more 386 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 3: than one piece of content that could build really a 387 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 3: brand and an ecosystem. 388 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: The possibilities are incredible. Well amit. Thank you so much 389 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: for taking the time to talk me through this. I'm 390 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: going to continue to look for your logo as a 391 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: trademark of quality. And since we have just started NFL season, 392 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to sign off by saying, go. 393 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: Bills, you had a great game last week. Good to 394 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: talk to you. 395 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 396 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music. We love to hear 397 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and sign 398 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't 399 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: forget to tune in next week for another episode of 400 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: Strictly Business.