1 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me Frank Afney. The program 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic. To the 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: glory of God and His Kingdom. Well, we're going to 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: be talking about the glory of God and His kingdom 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: and what we must do to preserve it with several 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: very very important guests. Before we do, I want to 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: set the stage for the immediate conversation with an update 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: on what is going on with respect to Iran. The 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: ceasefire between Israel and Iran President Trump announced yesterday came 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: amidst signs that the cumulative effects of recent Israeli and 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: US military actions were putting the Iranian regime in extremists. 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: The right response to the impending demise of an enemy 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: government that is explicitly pursued for forty six years, death 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: to Israel, death to America, and the destruction of Judaeo 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: Christian civilization is do not resuscitate. By contrast, what amounts 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: to a hudnah, the pause that allows the Iotolis to regroup, 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: re arm, repress their people, and resume Jihadwe expedient would 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: be a strategic defeat for their intended victims, including US. 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: President Trump has brilliantly teemed with Israel's bb natagnant who 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: to make possible a decisive victory in the truly endless 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: war with Iran. Join us at Victory co dot org 23 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: for an emergency briefing today at two pm Eastern time. 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: For what needs to be done now, we're going to 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: turn to our friend John Guandolo to help sus all 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: this out. The enemy's domestic yes as well as foreign 27 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: John is, of course not only a regular featured guest 28 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: at this program, for which we are eternally grateful, he 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: is a man of great accomplishment in the uniform of 30 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: the United States Marines, a combat veteran of its Force 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: Reconnaissance units, very pointy end of the pointy end of 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: the spear. He's also been a member of the SWAT 33 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: Team and CEO, the commanding officer of it at the 34 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: FBI before he became a counter terrorism special Agent. In 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: the years since he left the Bureau, he has been 36 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: very prominently engaged in trying to raise the alarm about 37 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: what the Jihatis are up to. On the one hand, 38 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: what I call Sharia supremacists, but also how they're partnered 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: up with communists and for that matter, globalists in what 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: I call the totalitarian trifecta. It's not just the red 41 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: Green axis. It's even bigger than that, and it's operating 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: here in the United States, a topic to which we're 43 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: going to turn immediately. John, Welcome back. It's good to 44 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: have you with us. 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: Thanks Frank, great to be on again with you. 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: Thank you. Our colleague Amy Mech, who is an extraordinary 47 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: force of nature, notably on x I think you can 48 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: find her at amy Mech there. She has produced recent 49 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: a video about a character that I know you have 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: been tracking for some time in your now native state 51 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: of Texas. Tell us about him, his background, and about 52 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: the remarks that he made that Amy captured and is 53 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: now providing all of us as an object lesson in 54 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: the enemy within. 55 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think Yaserkati, as you well know, I've 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: been personally tracking for a number of years back when 57 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: he was in Memphis, Tennessee, at the Memphis Islamic Center 58 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: as the leading Islamic scholar there. I was reporting both professionally, 59 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: and this is both when I was in the government 60 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: and then after my time in the Department of Defense. 61 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: And when he moved to Texas some years ago, I 62 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: reported it to people here as well as my colleague 63 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: that this was an indicator of a shift to target Texas. 64 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what he's done. He's the legal scholar, 65 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: the senior Islamic scholar at the East Polano Islamic Center. 66 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: And as you know, let mew are, what what is 67 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: the role of a scholar in Islamic circles? 68 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: Okay, So that's a great, yes, very important. So he 69 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: is a legal jurist, an Islamic jurist, and so he 70 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: understands and knows and teaches Sharia. So when he is speaking, 71 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 2: he is talking about core Islamic doctrine, Sharia and what 72 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: is required of the Muslim community under Sharia, which is 73 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: a laws, divine law according to Islam. And so he 74 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: he is in the United States and in North America, 75 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: not just a former Islamic scholar from the Memphis Islamic 76 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: Center and the current Islamic scholar for the East Plano 77 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 2: Islamic Center just north of Dallas, Texas. He is the 78 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: chairman of the FEAK Council of North America, which is 79 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: the Muslim brotherhood organization in North America whose duty it 80 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 2: is to ensure that the Islamic movement and the Islamic 81 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: community in North America knows and follows Islamic law Sharia, 82 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 2: and he's the chairman of that organization. I think it's 83 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: very important for people to understand that's his role as 84 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: an Islamic scholar in North America. 85 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: In a way, it's not just interpreting or otherwise conveying 86 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: the teachings of Sharia and the requirements of it's kind 87 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: of an enforcer of it as well. 88 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: Is it not that it absolutely is the role of 89 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: the Fee Council in North America as it's evolved from 90 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: the really the nineteen seventies to today, as it's evolved 91 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: into what it is, its role is to ensure the 92 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: Islamic movement in North America obeys and conforms to Sharia 93 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: Islamic law. Absolutely. 94 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: Okay, So John, this brings us to the speech that 95 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: he made recently in the context of this well crisis 96 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: shall we call it with Iran? What did this Feak 97 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: Council Chairman Yessir Couddy say about Iran? What did he 98 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: exhort the people in the East plaino Islamic center to 99 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: do and those able to hear him beyond. 100 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 2: Well, it's important to understand he's called and there are 101 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 2: a couple of big pieces here because you know, he 102 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: is a Sunni Muslim and he is encouraging people to 103 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: support and fight for Iran and fight for jihad, wages 104 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: jihad for the defense of Iran. And also not just 105 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: the physical fighting, although that is the noteworthy part that 106 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: people should be paying attention to, but also to to 107 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: support in all the ways, because it's important to remember 108 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: jihad is not merely the physical fighting, as you know, 109 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: it's total war. So it's it's the you know, the counterintelligence, 110 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: the espionage, the subversion, the financial support, the support through propaganda, 111 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: as well as military fighting and encouraging the Muslim community 112 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: to defend the Muslims. 113 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: You know, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but let me 114 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: just say one of the things that was not in 115 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: that list is trying to make yourself a better Muslim 116 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: to personal improvement. As the definition of jihad is that 117 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: in fact a definition or is that something sort of 118 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: sand that's being thrown in our eyes to obscure what 119 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: really is meant? 120 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: Right, While the propaganda campaign over the last twenty years 121 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: in the United States specifically, has tried to explain to 122 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: the American public, the non Muslim public, that you know, 123 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: somebody doing their homework is part of their jihad, or 124 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 2: somebody trying to be a nicer person as part of 125 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: their personal jihad. In Shuria and Islamic law, the only 126 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: legal definition of jihad is warfare against non Muslims. So 127 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: I think it's important to make that point. 128 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm glad you and it can take those various forms. 129 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: As you say, it's not just violent jihad, but it's 130 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: all in the spirit of conquest and forcing the believer 131 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: to submit, is it not. So I want to come 132 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: back to what this means in the context of Iran, 133 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: specifically fighting for Iran, as well as what it means 134 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: in the context of the enemy within problem, as it 135 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: may bear on what we do with respect to Iran 136 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: in the days to come. John Gondola's in the house. 137 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: Praise God. We'll be right back with more. Please stick 138 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: to Welcome back. John Gondola is with us a former 139 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: FBI special agent with expertise in all things having to 140 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: do with well. I believe both the green yes, but 141 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: the red part of the red Green axis, the Sharia 142 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: supremacists as well as the communist and John we're talking 143 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: about Iran. We're talking about a man who has a 144 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: very prominent role in the Muslim brotherhood hierarchy in the 145 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: United States, Cercati, who is exhorting people in a very 146 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: controversial community in Dallas, Texas area to fight for Iran. 147 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: We're having this conversation in the immediate after math of 148 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 1: the President of the United States announcing that there's been 149 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: now a ceasefire between Israel and Iran. It remains to 150 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: be seen how durable that turns out to be, but 151 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 1: the immediate effect, I think is to suggest that somehow 152 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: we've taken care of the problem with Iran. I'd like 153 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: to get your thoughts, having served in combat in the region, 154 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: having I suspect to come up against some people who 155 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: were under the influence of the Iranians, if not actually 156 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: trying to kill us on their behalf your sense of 157 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: both where we are now in this conflict, both foreign 158 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: and domestic. 159 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: So this is the big question, and I appreciate the 160 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: opportunity to answer it. If we look at sharia, which, 161 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: as a reminder to everybody, Sharia is the blueprint for 162 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: how the Islamic nations fight. And remember that every Islamic 163 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: nation on the planet, including Iran, all fifty six Islamic 164 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: nations at the head of state level, is a party 165 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: to the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam, which 166 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: states the only way they understand relations with the non 167 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: Muslim world is through So I cannot overemphasize this. And 168 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: when we look at Sharia, what is the defeat mechanism 169 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: for this enemy, and it's complete defeat. It's vanquishing them, 170 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: and anything short of that gives them an opportunity to rebuild, 171 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: restrengthen their armies and reattack. And so I think any 172 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: cessation of military operations against any Islamic nation should never 173 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: take place until they're completely vanquished. And Iran is not 174 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 2: completely vanquished. They still have some leadership in place, they 175 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: still have some ability militarily, and that all needs to 176 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: be destroyed. And until it is, we're making a mistake. 177 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: And I understand very much the desire for peace, but 178 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 2: you can have peace with the Islamic nations until you 179 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: vanquish them. 180 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: And John, when you say that, it's obviously going to 181 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: be shocking to a lot of people there does seem 182 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: at the moment to be a distinct possibility, as I 183 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: said in my commentary moment ago, for the people of 184 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: Iran to bring about the defeat of this regime if 185 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: they're given the opportunity to do so. And my sense 186 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: has been that what the Israelis have been beavering away at, 187 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: and most recently with our help, that of President Trump himself, 188 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: in fact, has been to advance what he described as 189 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: possible necessary response to the fact that these Mollahs aren't 190 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: interested in making Iran great again in the sense that 191 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: we have from the pre revolutionary moment, when it was 192 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: a part of the Western civilized world, it was playing 193 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: a constructive role in the Middle East. Could you speak 194 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: to this idea that we may be squandering the best 195 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: opportunity in forty six years to help effect the final 196 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: decisive defeat of both this regime specifically, but really maybe 197 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: even a decisive defeat for Sharia supremacism more generally. 198 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: Yes. So this is a tremendous question and it begs 199 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: a few pieces to be answered. First, understanding Iran's role 200 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: in the global Islamic movement, They're a massive player. I mean, 201 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: they have been a massive financier for Hamas for the 202 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: Muslim Brotherhood internationally and in the United States, and I 203 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: think to miss that is a grave error. So that's 204 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 2: the first piece. Of the second piece is I think 205 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: it's important for people to remember this is not America 206 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: piggybacking on Israel to attack Iran. Iran has been at war, 207 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: as you mentioned at the beginning of this program, has 208 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: been at war with the United States for decades. The 209 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: taking of our hostages was an active war. The bombing 210 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: of the US embassy in Lebanon was an active war. 211 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: The bombing of the Marine barracks was an active war. 212 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: Sending not just these recent teams to the United States 213 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 2: to kill people, but they have sent teams we know 214 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: over the past twenty years into the United States to 215 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: do operations. These are all acts of war. They supported 216 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: al Qaida and the other Sunni fighters in Afghanistan and 217 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: Iraq against US troops. These are acts of war, participating 218 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: in war against the United States for which we should 219 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: have punished them, and we haven't. Now they have been 220 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: I mean, we're smashing them. All I'm at indicating is 221 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: finish the job. And then that does practically give the 222 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: people of Iran, the Persian people the ability to step 223 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: in and take over. But I think the United States 224 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: needs to be very careful not to then try to 225 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: play a direct role in that, because quite frankly, we 226 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: have not been good at that over the years. We've 227 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: failed so many times. But what we can do is 228 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: finish the job and eliminate the hostile Iranian government and 229 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: their military forces and their intelligence forces and literally obliterate 230 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: them and then leave it to be what it is. 231 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: And it certainly looks like there is a regime in 232 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 2: place that will step in, but again I can't and 233 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: by the way, I would advocate we do the same 234 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: in places like Saudi Arabia and cut her because they 235 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 2: have waged war against the United States. I mean, Saudi 236 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: Arabia ran a dry run a year before nine to eleven. 237 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 2: They directly participated in nine to eleven. And so we 238 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 2: are missing the big pieces of this war of the 239 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: Islamic movement, the global Islamic movement against the United States 240 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: that has to be addressed. 241 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, John to take a sort of 242 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: opposite perspective. Let's just say that the upshot of the 243 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: present ceasefire is to enable the Iranians, as you and 244 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: I both described, to regroup, to re arm, to re 245 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: establish their brutally repressive control of their people, and to 246 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: be capable of renewed violence on their terms and choose 247 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: the time that they're choosing. What does the world look 248 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: like in that event, given, as you say, the prominent 249 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: role that iron plays in the global Islamic movement in 250 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: global g. 251 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: Hunt, so I would say, go back to what is 252 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: their blueprint for how they fight the war, and it's Sharia. 253 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: And if you give them an inch, they're going to 254 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: take it. They will restrengthen, And the message to the 255 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: rest of the Muslim world that is at war with 256 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 2: us would be, especially those key pieces and the key 257 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 2: places that are at war with us, would be the 258 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 2: Americans are weak and a law is handing us another 259 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 2: opportunity to strengthen ourselves and re engage in the war. 260 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 2: That is exactly what Sharia will require them to see 261 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: in this action, because they don't see it as an 262 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 2: opportunity for peace or for mercy. Those concepts don't exist. 263 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 2: This would be a chance for that and to strengthen 264 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 2: and to reassess and to re engage Israel, the United 265 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: States and the broader West. 266 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: John Gondola, we have to leave it at that, an excellent, 267 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: I think, assessment of where we find ourselves today and 268 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: why we must not resuscitate this Iranian regime that may 269 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: well be at death's door. Keep up the great work, 270 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: my friend in Dallas, Texas, John Gondola dot com. Is 271 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: how they can find you. I know, I hope they 272 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: will learn more about all of this. God bless you, John, 273 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: come back, Thank you. We're right back with more after this. 274 00:19:44,840 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: Stay tuned. We're back, and so is Rod Martin. Praise 275 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: the Lord, the chairman of our Institute for the American Future, 276 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: a man whose acumen on business matters was recognized by 277 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: Peter Teal at the birthing of PayPal. He has gone 278 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: on to become a well I call him an oracle 279 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: of Delphi these days, with his Rod Martin Report, which 280 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: you can find at Rodmartin dot org required reading on 281 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: all manner of things. We're going to talk with him 282 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: a little bit about the current topic of the day, 283 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: and that is what are we doing about Iran? And 284 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: are we doing the right things about Iran? Or is 285 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: it a mixed bag that could use some tuning up? 286 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: I'm delighted to have him here to kick that around 287 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: a little bit. 288 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: Rod. 289 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back. It's good to have you here. So the 290 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: President has both used the military power of the United 291 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: States rather exquisitely, I would say yes, to take down 292 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: three important elements of the Iranian nuclear weapons program, having 293 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: resolved many many years ago, and repeated endlessly that he 294 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: is intent on ensuring that these Mullahs do not have 295 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: the bomb. I wish he were as clear that he 296 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 1: does not want them to have terrorism as a weapon 297 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: of choice, or for that matter, Sharia supremacism as a motivation. 298 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: And I'm a little bit concerned that if he has, 299 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: as perhaps an intended effect or perhaps an unintended one, 300 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: the perpetuation of the mullaocracies as an outcome of his ceasefire, 301 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: which he announced with some fanfare, he may have a 302 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: lot more of Sharia's supremacism, a lot more of terrorism, 303 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: and probably a lot more of nuclear weapons pursuit as well. 304 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 3: Your thoughts, sir, well, First of all, this is a 305 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: three year campaign and not a twelve day one, and 306 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 3: a lot of that happened with Netanyahu having to fight 307 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 3: alone because the Biden people certainly weren't going to give 308 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 3: him any meaningful help. They didn't get too much in 309 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: his way, but they certainly didn't do what they should 310 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: have done. And of course the Iranians have built an 311 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 3: empire which is now gone. They basically colonized Syria. Now 312 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 3: Turkey's doing that, so you know that may be better. 313 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 3: And you know, they had an army on Israel's border 314 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 3: in Hesbala, and they had an army on Israel's border 315 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 3: in Hamas, and they have the Houthi's blowing up shipping 316 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 3: and you know, all of that is either deathmated or 317 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 3: eliminated at this point. And that's extraordinary, and that gives 318 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 3: you an opportunity to really go after the head of 319 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 3: the beast. And Israel did. But I think the folks 320 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 3: who think they did that on their own are not 321 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 3: paying attention. I don't know how many more ways Donald 322 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 3: Trump could telegraph that this was his show from the beginning, 323 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 3: and the Israelis did the grunt work, and then we 324 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 3: go in and do only that which we alone can do. 325 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 3: So would that continue? Yeah, If this ceasefire doesn't hold, 326 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 3: I think Donald Trump is going to utterly decapitate this regime. 327 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 3: And I think they know it. And it's not just 328 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: the regime, it's their entire power projection capability. To the 329 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 3: degree that they can threaten the strait of hormones, now, 330 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 3: all of those elements are gonna get destroyed one hundred 331 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 3: percent and they know it. And you saw it yesterday 332 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 3: when they retaliate by attacking the basic cutter and they 333 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 3: warn us ince so nobody gets hurt. They're terrified of Trump. 334 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: They really genuinely are. Now will they be in a 335 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 3: week who knows, But that's where we are now. So 336 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: will Trump do things that meaningfully advance regime change? Yes, probably, 337 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 3: but no not an invasion. 338 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: Invasion is certainly not either in the cards or desirable 339 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: by the United States or by Israel for that matter, 340 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: by anybody else. But I do want to just play 341 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: this out with you, Rod, because I think much of 342 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: what you said I completely agree with. My only concern 343 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: is if we make it contingent doing all those things, 344 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: and again that the purpose, it seems to me, should 345 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: be obviously not invasion, but not picking the next government 346 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: of Iran, either simply enabling the people of Iran to 347 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: free themselves from the regime that has brutally repressed them 348 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: for forty six years and threatened Israel and threatened US, 349 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: and is a threat to something I know you hold 350 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: as dear as I do, which is Judeo Christian civilization 351 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: more generally, that's what Sharia has gotten their crosshairs. But 352 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: my concern is, and I don't want to underestimate Donald Trump, 353 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: because I think he truly has been playing multi dimensional chess. 354 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: And he certainly, as he kind of boasted about with 355 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: Benjamin Nettaigne, who's you know, leadership being fully acknowledged, he's 356 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: been teaming with the Israelis, and maybe it's just as 357 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: you say, but does he at this point, by investing 358 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: in this deal, this ceasefire, preclude further teaming, preclude the 359 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: sorts of things that you just laid out as needed 360 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: as I do, and and in other words, essentially legitimate 361 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: the legime regime and tell the people of Iran don't 362 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: even think about throwing them over the sign. 363 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 3: I don't really think so. I think Donald Trump is 364 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 3: not any of our past presidents except maybe Reagan. And 365 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: you know, Reagan did the hard thing in Libya. Reagan 366 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 3: did the hard thing in Grenada. Reagan did the hard 367 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 3: thing lots of places, and you know, Trump is completely 368 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 3: willing to do that, which catches the whole world short. 369 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 3: And you know his deadline, the sixty day deadline, it's 370 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 3: just brilliant. No one's ever going to take his deadlines 371 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 3: un seriously again. And he might even be able to 372 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 3: pass that man Ala on to his successor, especially if 373 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 3: it's vance. So no, I think he's reserving lots of 374 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: opportunity to just blow the crap out of him if 375 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: they transgress, and I think transgression is going to mean 376 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 3: a relatively broad range of things. If they try to 377 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 3: reconstitute Hasblla, that is not on. That is not going 378 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 3: to be allowed, and we may not have to do 379 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: it directly, but we can certainly support Israel in doing 380 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 3: whatever needs doing. And I thought it was really instructive 381 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 3: that the new president of Syria publicly publicly said Israel 382 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 3: is free to use our airspace to shoot down Iranian drums. 383 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 3: So I think what the ceasefire does, Admittedly i'd love 384 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 3: to just see regime change today, that would be great, 385 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 3: but if we're not going to do that, what the 386 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 3: ceasefire does for us is it leaves an enemy out 387 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: there that is isolated and largely defanged. It isn't going 388 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 3: to be able to enrich it's sixty percent high enriched 389 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: uranium to ninety percent, at least not anytime soon. And 390 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 3: what that does is it incentivizes the Gulf States, who 391 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 3: are terrified out of Iran, to coalesce in the Abraham 392 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 3: Accords and we actually build the alliance that keeps Israel 393 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: safe while Iran figures out what it's going to do next. 394 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 3: But no, I don't think this regime lasts. I don't 395 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 3: know if they have the leadership in country at this 396 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 3: point to be able to execute an uprising. But I 397 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 3: know the regime doesn't have the leadership it had two 398 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 3: weeks ago. 399 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: That's for sure, and it shouldn't have any leadership at all. 400 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: It's my general observation, indeed. 401 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 4: But they're both. 402 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: But to your point, Rod, you know, some of that 403 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: analysis depends on things that we think we know. Well, 404 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: of course, some people think we know. The American intelligence 405 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: community doesn't even think that Iran has a nuclear weapons program, 406 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: let alone that it's got lots of uranium rich to 407 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: sixty percent. But even the UN International Atomic Energy Agency 408 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: amazingly thinks they have enough of that stuff. To make 409 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: fifteen bombs or so. But the question is did they 410 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: managed to squirrel some of that away someplace other than Ford? 411 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: Oh? 412 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: Is it actually enriched more than sixty percent? And frankly, 413 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: you can make a bomb with sixty percent, it's just 414 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: not as efficient as you'd like. But the main point 415 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm wondering about and want you to come in on, 416 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: is this, if we are serious about a new Middle 417 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: East that has some of the attributes you just talked about, 418 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, in many more Abraham Accord countries, notably Saudi Arabia, 419 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: I'd like to see an end to the Katari support 420 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: for terrorism and so on, as long as we're throwing 421 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: things on the mix, but I think without Iran being 422 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: a Sharia supremacist state that is endlessly helping with terrorism 423 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: and Sharia's supremacism and so on, I think we have 424 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: a truly different Middle East, one that would allow us, 425 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: I would say to my friend Steve Benn in particular, 426 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 1: to focus where we better be focused on in the 427 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: Far East with China, and we have in Israel the 428 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: perfect example of what Donald Trump's doctrine has been calling for, namely, 429 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: a power regionally that is on our side, and for 430 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: its own reasons, as well as supporting US is doing 431 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: the heavy lifting, and in this case, that means helping 432 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: the Iranian people free themselves from this regime. Not pick 433 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: who comes next, but helping free them. That's where I'd 434 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: like to see us be. And I'm afraid this ceasefire 435 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: may impede that run. 436 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: Well, there's no question that you don't know what happens tomorrow, 437 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 3: and you know it is very possible that this freezes 438 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 3: them in place. But I think they're at their weakest 439 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 3: point in forty six years. I was ten when Jimmy 440 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 3: Carter betrayed the Shah and with him the Iranian people. 441 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 3: I've lived with this all my life, and I want 442 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 3: them gone as much or more than anybody who doesn't 443 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 3: live under their power. But the truth of the matter 444 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 3: is there's only so much you can do per day, 445 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: and Donald Trump gets more done per day than anybody 446 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 3: I know, even Eliot. So I think what we have 447 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 3: here is an opportunity to coalesce the Abraham Accords. I 448 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 3: think we've got an opportunity for an internal uprising in Iran. 449 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 3: If it doesn't come, I think we're going to have 450 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 3: further opportunities to push it over the edge. 451 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: From your lips to God's ears. My friend, as usual, 452 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,479 Speaker 1: Rod Martin, thank you, keep up the great work at 453 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: Rodmartin dot orgon of course, with us at Usfuture dot org, 454 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: the Institute for the American Future. We'll talk to you soon. 455 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, but the rest. 456 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 4: Of you can to. 457 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: Welcome back, and a very special welcome to our next guest. 458 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: His name is Richard Pollock, a dear friend of many years, 459 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: born of our first encounters when he was a senior 460 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: producer for Good Morning America on ABC News. He's come 461 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: a long way, baby since then, now a series of 462 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: very successful gigs as an investigative reporter in various outfits. 463 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: These days he is reporting on substack and you can 464 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: follow him there at Richard Substack. He has brought to 465 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: my attention, prior to the events of the weekend, some 466 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: very interesting insights into Israeli military trade craft in their 467 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: operations against Iran. We want to talk to him about 468 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: that and also any insights he has into ours in 469 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: the days that followed that initial campaign launched by the 470 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: Israelis on Friday the thirteenth. We're very, very anxious to 471 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: get your thoughts on all of this. Richard, thank you 472 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: so much for joining us to do so. 473 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 4: Thank you. 474 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about some of the 475 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: extraordinary feats we're familiar with, you know, the Beepers that 476 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: took down Hesba Lah and the precision strikes against the 477 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: leader of that organization, also of Hamas. But what the 478 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: Israelis have done toward to really reduce the capability of 479 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: Iran is a whole nother class, it seems to me. 480 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: Can you tell us some of the insights you've garnered 481 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: about it? 482 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 4: Yes, this is pretty long. 483 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 5: This is perhaps the most marketed stories of undercover operations. 484 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 5: First of all, we will know that deeper attack, that 485 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 5: this is Beeper's steroids, in my opinion, But what we 486 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 5: have here are not just simply a few or scores 487 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 5: of members of the Mossade, which is is those by agency, 488 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 5: but it looks like there are hundreds of Masade agents 489 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 5: on the ground without the country of Iran, which has 490 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 5: completely changed the nature of cover operations, I mean, the revolutionizes. 491 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 5: In my opinion, I don't think that anyone at West 492 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 5: Point or the other. 493 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 4: Colleges or colleges that really have. 494 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 5: A sense of this kind of magnitude of work. 495 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 4: So they brought in of. 496 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 5: And hundreds and hundreds of drones into the country, they 497 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 5: assembled them the fact that they built in and then 498 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 5: they launched them on uh Indeed, essentially on June thirteen. 499 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 5: They also had units for attacking actively different defense systems. 500 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 5: They were just operating throughout the country almost freely, and 501 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 5: it was just really a story legendary in its own time. 502 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: It isn't not only technical proficiency obviously and the trade 503 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: craft of intelligence, but unbelievable courage. I mean, this is 504 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: deep behind enemy lines, and any of those folks fallen 505 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: into the hands of the Mullah's, the best thing that 506 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: would happen to them, of course, would be their death. 507 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: It's all the more impressive because of the role that 508 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: all of that played in both the surprise attack as 509 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: well as the extent to which, in particular, as I 510 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: understand it, that combination of ground operations from inside Iran 511 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: plus aerial actions really eliminated the air defense system of Iran, 512 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: whatever was left of it after Israel's previous attacks, and that, 513 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: in turn, we'll get to here in a moment, helped 514 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: clear the way for our B two's to go in 515 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: and take down photo in particular. But talk a little 516 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: bit about that human element. You know, we've talked on 517 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: this program often with our friend Sam Fatis, notably about 518 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: the palling state of American human intelligence. The Israelis have, 519 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: as I say, taken this whole business to a new level, 520 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 1: it seems, would you agree. 521 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 5: I don't know how many of your viewers remember in 522 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 5: the nineteen seventies presentative Church, the famous Church. During speech 523 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 5: she excoriated Central Intelligence Agency for hiring supplies who had 524 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 5: really unsavory backgrounds, and of course Frank Church was just 525 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 5: a guess. 526 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 4: About that, Well, that's exactly what you want to do. 527 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 5: You want to hire spies who are really in the 528 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 5: most evil places, and these are not police council. 529 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 4: So these CIA and the intelligence in the. 530 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 5: United States decided to abandon having people on the ground. 531 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 4: Largely did have to film people, but mainly. 532 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 5: As a as a strategy, they decided to rely on 533 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 5: electronic signals intelligence and the Israeli in the opposite direction, 534 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 5: they decided to go and investigate the people in the 535 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 5: most pickable repressive regimes and to operate undercover. 536 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 4: We may remember that during the President Joy No operation as. 537 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 5: European President in Iran is al Haney, who was the 538 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 5: chairman come on us, was killed while he was sleeping 539 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 5: in a presidential guest house, which is the equivalent of 540 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 5: Blair House in the United States. That gives you a 541 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 5: sense of the nature of Israel's investment in the human 542 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 5: spies of Granty. 543 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 4: Of course, the assassinated many years. 544 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 5: Ago the top nuclear scientists. They were in twenty eighteen 545 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 5: able to grow in abscan with tens of thousands of 546 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 5: documents from Tehran for several program solve the Israeli have 547 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 5: really made his major investment. 548 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 4: And it is paying off. 549 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 5: In fact, in this last or the latest ESKA, they 550 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 5: brought in these weapons group untainners, through trucks, through shuitcases. 551 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 5: I mean, it's just really an extray parent chapter in 552 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 5: terms of COVID war. 553 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: We have to take a short break, Richard. We're going 554 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: to come back and talk about two other facets of 555 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: what has been going on here that are remarkable as well. 556 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: One is the operational security OPSEC that has been practiced 557 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: and also in connection with teaming with the United States, 558 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: the ability to you know, maintain a teamwork that has 559 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: proven to be extraordinarily effective in getting the job done. 560 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that your public right after this. 561 00:39:50,680 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 6: Stay tune. 562 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: Richard Pollock is with us. The praise the Lord, welcome back. 563 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: We are talking about the trade craft that we have 564 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 1: seen the Israeli military and intelligence services execute in Iran 565 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: with devastating effect against not only the nuclear weapons program 566 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: of that country and the ballistic missiles and their launchers, 567 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 1: but also increasingly now it appears against both the military leadership, 568 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 1: the intelligence leadership, the scientific leadership, and the security apparatus 569 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 1: that has maintained the regime in power all these years. 570 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: Two things that I want wanted specifically to address with you, Richard. First, 571 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: we saw in this campaign that the United States engaged 572 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: in on Saturday night a degree of operational security that 573 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: I must say I didn't think was possible any longer. 574 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: And it's all the more remarkable because it wasn't just 575 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, a number of assets and lots of people 576 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,839 Speaker 1: associated with them, six or seven different commands in our 577 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: military involved, and then also clearly close tie in with 578 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 1: the Israelis. Were you struck by that as well? And 579 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: to what do you think that should be credited? 580 00:41:53,880 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 5: Well, the scene, these the sceneless operations between the United 581 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 5: States military courses and the Israeli defense for it was 582 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 5: just remarkble. A lot of people don't know when the 583 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 5: war began and the ARRANUS began entering is really air space. 584 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 5: It was not just simply the Iron Dome or the 585 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 5: UH or the other Israeli run defensive systems, but the 586 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,359 Speaker 5: US defensive systems we're shooting now it is the same missiles. 587 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 4: So the coordination has been very tighty h And also there's. 588 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 5: A whole bunch of perception that's been going on, you know, 589 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 5: which I think is really quite interesting. 590 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 4: You know, there was an idea that UH, there was 591 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 4: going to be a two week periods of. 592 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 5: The United States is going to decide what it's going 593 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,919 Speaker 5: to do, and then two or three days later the 594 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 5: reparation launched. 595 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 4: On day sixty. 596 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 5: In negotiations between its States and a lot a lot 597 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 5: of Indians and Richmond program, we had an interesting situation where. 598 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 4: They sympathy won. 599 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 5: It turns out that the Israelis attack UH. And by 600 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 5: the way, there was supposed to be another series of 601 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 5: meetings on that following Sunday, So the amount of deception 602 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,320 Speaker 5: and the amount. 603 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:31,399 Speaker 4: Of UH moved to DC A lot. 604 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 5: It was just really I think very impressive. 605 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:35,960 Speaker 6: Uh. 606 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 5: The deception part is really quite interesting. 607 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: Mind, and I think that's the teamwork of which the 608 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 1: President was speaking when he thanked Benjamin Nataniell, who for 609 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: his and his his military and people's efforts in this regard. 610 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: I want to ask you, Richard, and I know this 611 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: is somewhat speculative at the moment, but uh, whether, as 612 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: I pray, that deception may be ongoing in the sense 613 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: that the administration here is talking certainly was over the 614 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 1: weekend about the need to get a new peace deal 615 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: with the Mullas. I personally am very much opposed to 616 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: that because I think, on the one hand, it's a 617 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: fool's errand to try to think you're going to get 618 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: anything useful out of these guys. But more to the point, 619 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: it legitimates the regime to suggest you're even seeking it, 620 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: and most worrying, it signals to the people of Iran 621 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,320 Speaker 1: that we're still going to be working with the people 622 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: who oppress them rather than seeking their liberation. And I'd 623 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: be interested in your thoughts on this, Richard. The President 624 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: has telegraphed in a truth social post recently that maybe 625 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: regime it wouldn't be such a bad idea if the 626 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: Mullas aren't committed to making Iran great again, whatever that 627 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: means in this case. First of all, what are your 628 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: thoughts about the need to actually achieve the liberation of Iran, 629 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: a free Iran, as I call it? And second of all, 630 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: do you think we might be seeing more of this 631 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: kind of well psychological warfare. I guess one might call 632 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: it against the Iranian Mullas, the perfect people to be 633 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: playing this kind of deception tactic against because they've been 634 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: lying and cheating and deceiving us for so many years. 635 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 5: Well, I think we're a distinct transition with the Israeli 636 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 5: moving eating hard military targets and now beginning to hit 637 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:03,879 Speaker 5: prison the internals security apparatus that has repressed arranging peoples 638 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 5: nineteen seventy nine. And in addition, my source to tell 639 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 5: me that the Moscot agents throughout the country are accurately 640 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,160 Speaker 5: working with those who are interested in freedom of independence 641 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,160 Speaker 5: in the different resistance operations. 642 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 2: And in fact, I've. 643 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,439 Speaker 5: Been told, though I have at least two sources, that 644 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 5: Mesade is getting covered and protection by the freedom sort 645 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 5: of forces within the RANS. 646 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,439 Speaker 4: I find it very interesting A. 647 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 5: Lot of the SAUT agents are in cities which are 648 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 5: very dense heavy populations, were able to hide there and 649 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 5: they know as a result of the years of work in. 650 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 4: Iran, who are. 651 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,439 Speaker 5: The key underground resistance fighters. So I think we're seeing 652 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,799 Speaker 5: a transition of thinkings. Knowing you should also know that 653 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:05,880 Speaker 5: half of the population along are minorities most passified the 654 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 5: Persian moments, and there is great particular provinces. There are 655 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 5: many of the ALTI were there in issue that the 656 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 5: Persian side we are demonstrations as well. So I think 657 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 5: that there is the beginning movement tour us direction. 658 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: Free Iran is the bottom line and all of this. 659 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 1: Richard Pollock, thank you for your insights. Obviously, as ever, 660 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 1: you have impeccable sources. You have marshaled the evidence and 661 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,799 Speaker 1: you've presented it in a very compelling way here for 662 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: which we are profoundly grateful. As they say, from your 663 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: lips to God's ears, we'll talk with you, So we'll 664 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,440 Speaker 1: talk to the recipe again next time. Until then, go 665 00:47:54,520 --> 00:48:01,800 Speaker 1: forth and multiply the