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Speaker 1: it's been a couple generations since the United States added

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Speaker 1: a star to its flag. We've had fifty states. Now

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Speaker 1: going back, I guess might in my entire lifetime, we've

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Speaker 1: been fifty as sudden, the oldest generation that can say that,

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Speaker 1: because of course we added states in Hawaii and Alaska

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Speaker 1: before that. There's been two potential new states that have

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Speaker 1: been sort of on and off again. One is for

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Speaker 1: the District of Columbia and one is Puerto Rico. Just

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Speaker 1: to give a summary, there's over four according to the

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Speaker 1: last census, over four million Americans who live in a

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Speaker 1: territory or a district that does not have any state representation,

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Speaker 1: and four basically four of those four million reside in

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Speaker 1: either Puerto Rico in DC. To break it down further,

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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico with a population twenty twenty four EPs of

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Speaker 1: three point two million. If it were a state, it

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Speaker 1: would essentially be approximately the size of Iowa and Utah

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Speaker 1: population wise, which means at least four members of Congress

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Speaker 1: A full anywhere, depending on the estimate you use, anywhere

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Speaker 1: from eighteen to twenty states have less population than Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 1: As for the District of Columbia, there are two states

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Speaker 1: with less population, y Oming and Vermont. So now if

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Speaker 1: you're asking about the Pacific Islands, I did do those

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Speaker 1: numbers as well. Combined you're looking at about three hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand, so not even quite one congressional district

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Speaker 1: Quam Guam at over one hundred and fifty thousand. The

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Speaker 1: US Virgin Islands, which I've got an idea on this

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Speaker 1: that I will I will, I will put further, has

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Speaker 1: about eighty seven thousand. American Simona with a fifty little

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Speaker 1: under fifty thousand, then the Northern Mariana Islands under fifty thousand.

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Speaker 1: So if you took. Basically, it's about two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand Americans in Pacific Island territories and with the

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Speaker 1: eighty with the nearly one hundred thousand in the US

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Speaker 1: virgin Island, to throw that in with Puerto Rico, you're

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Speaker 1: looking at three point three million. But that's the scenario.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of people who don't have representation, who

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Speaker 1: pay taxes without representation, living in the DMV, which in

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Speaker 1: this case is not the Division of Motor vehicles, but

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Speaker 1: when I talk about the district Maryland and Virginia, that's

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Speaker 1: what that DMV stands for. I've spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with people who have had efforts to get statehood

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Speaker 1: for d C. There were moments it was close and not.

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Speaker 1: In Puerto Rico. There's a sort of a three way divide,

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Speaker 1: if you will, when it comes to the statehood conversation.

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Speaker 1: There are some people that want full independence, there are

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Speaker 1: some people that want full statehood, and there are even

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Speaker 1: others on the island that still argue for essentially what

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Speaker 1: we have so far a commonwealth with you know, with

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Speaker 1: the American umbrella citizenship. But that's about it. So joining

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Speaker 1: me to discuss the fight for STATEO. These are two

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Speaker 1: advocates for statehood, both with Puerto Rico and DC, because

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Speaker 1: I believe you're not going to get one state. The

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Speaker 1: only shot you have it each has is probably working

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Speaker 1: together two states and give both parties the idea that

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Speaker 1: they have something to gain. Here. George las Garcia is

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Speaker 1: the executive director of the Puerto Rican Statehood Council and

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Speaker 1: the shadow represent from DC who is elected to lobby

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Speaker 1: for statehood. Oya oh Oleiwa joins me. I will be

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Speaker 1: using his nickname of Oya for the rest of the time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you both for joining us. Oh Yea, I hope

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Speaker 1: you're okay with that. Absolutely, Thanks for having me look,

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Speaker 1: and I want to give you. I want to give

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Speaker 1: you a shout out here because you and I have

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Speaker 1: been talking for some time about this issue. You've always

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Speaker 1: been looking for better ways to get more national coverage

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Speaker 1: of this, and I suggested, hey, why don't we, why

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Speaker 1: don't we get somebody advocating for Puerto Rican statehood and

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Speaker 1: let's have you guys on together. And sure enough, o Ya,

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Speaker 1: you were my book aro on this one. So thank you.

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Speaker 1: Let me start. Let me start with you, Oya, which

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Speaker 1: is about ten years ago. I thought, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: DC statehood happens in my lifetime, and then, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then some roadblocks have been hit. How would you

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Speaker 1: describe the status? I just recently sat down with Mayor

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Speaker 1: Bowser and she, you know, fights she you know, the

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Speaker 1: issue of the National Guard was a reminder, as she said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: if you don't like it, that's why you need to

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Speaker 1: advocate for statehood. Where would you how would you describe

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Speaker 1: where we are on the on the fight for statehood

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Speaker 1: in the district.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that question, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: As you mentioned before, we had the opportunity.

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Speaker 3: To become a state, whether it's having the Democrats control

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Speaker 3: of the House, Senate and the presidency. However, the fight

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Speaker 3: for d Z state was never really prioritized, and when

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Speaker 3: I became the US representative four or five years ago, the.

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Speaker 2: Conversation about statehood usually relied and ended at Congressional representation,

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Speaker 2: which is critical for DC. However, since my election, we've

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Speaker 2: seen things like our old our bills being overturned by Congress,

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Speaker 2: the National Guard not being deployed on time on January sixth,

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Speaker 2: Even more recently, the federal occupation of agents on the

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Speaker 2: ground of DC. So we're seeing people, you know, really

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Speaker 2: activate behind the idea of DC becoming a state, but

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Speaker 2: definitely politically we're taking a step back because the same

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Speaker 2: dynamics that we may have enjoyed in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: eight isn't here in twenty twenty five. But because of

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Speaker 2: your platform, because of other people speaking, I believe we

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Speaker 2: are a getting closer and closer to DC statehood being

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Speaker 2: an actual issue.

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Speaker 1: George, walk me through where how's the state of Puerto

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Speaker 1: Rican statehood? And if you have a pushback on how

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Speaker 1: I described the debate, I've always thought that one of

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Speaker 1: the challenges for Puerto Rican statehood is that the fact

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Speaker 1: that it isn't at clean there Really there aren't two

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Speaker 1: sides of the argument in Puerto Rico, there are three

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Speaker 1: sides to the argument.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, thank you so much, Chuck for the opportunity.

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Speaker 5: The issue of Puerto Rico's statehood is one that has

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Speaker 5: made a lot of progress in the past decades. As

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Speaker 5: you mentioned, on the island, political parties aren't necessarily aligned

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Speaker 5: along the republican and democratic political spectrum. They've mostly been

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Speaker 5: focused on where the political parties support the different status solutions.

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Speaker 5: So there's been a very small minority traditionally between two

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Speaker 5: and about six percent that supports full independence.

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Speaker 4: For Puerto Rico, small percent. It's been that small.

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Speaker 5: There has been a larger political party that has had

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Speaker 5: the control of the governorship and the legislature for a

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Speaker 5: lot of the twentieth century that supports either continuing as

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Speaker 5: a territory or improving that in some way. They call

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Speaker 5: it the commonwealth and use that term earlier, but the

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Speaker 5: reality is the Supreme Court Justice justices have decided in

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Speaker 5: a number of cases that ultimately, even though that's a

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Speaker 5: formal name of Puerto Rico, Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, for

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Speaker 5: the purposes of the US Constitution, Puerto Rico is an

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Speaker 5: unincorporated territory, meaning that it belongs to the United States.

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Speaker 5: It's a property United States, but it isn't actually incorporated

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Speaker 5: into the Union permanently, which is one of the constitutional

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Speaker 5: differences between Puerto Rico and Washington, d C. Which is

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Speaker 5: definitely incorporated on a permanent basis into the Union.

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Speaker 1: It's written into the Constitution right. DC's existence is written

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Speaker 1: into the Constitution.

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Speaker 5: Exactly exactly, so DC couldn't be made into independent country.

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Speaker 5: They either become a state, they're retroceeded into another existing state,

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Speaker 5: or or they stay as what they are.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: Right now, with Puerto Rico, we've got different options.

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Speaker 5: Right, We've got independence, which a majority of the island

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Speaker 5: residents have consistently opposed. We've got continuing to be a territory,

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Speaker 5: which means that you get treated unequally under federal laws

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Speaker 5: and programs, and you don't have a full participation in

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Speaker 5: the US Congress that makes the laws that you live under. Right,

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Speaker 5: so you get kind of this terrible treatment of you know,

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Speaker 5: unequal treatment under laws and then no representation the body

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Speaker 5: that makes those laws. And then we've got an added factor,

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Speaker 5: which is that, like DC, the Congress can actually govern.

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Speaker 4: Us at the local level.

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Speaker 5: So all states across the Union, they've got the Tenth

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Speaker 5: Amendment where the state itself is a sovereign and it

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Speaker 5: reserves all the rights to the states and the people

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Speaker 5: that aren't explicitly granted to the federal government by the

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Speaker 5: Constitution in the case of Washington, d C. In Puerto Rico,

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Speaker 5: Congress can literally pass local laws that govern us, and

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Speaker 5: in the case of Puerto Rico, they've done so. And

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Speaker 5: what that has done most recently is mean that we

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Speaker 5: have a federal oversight board that is essentially ruling Puerto

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Speaker 5: Rico over and above the decisions of our elected officials.

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Speaker 5: And what this has done is it has pushed the

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Speaker 5: residents on the island to recognize the continuing under territory

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Speaker 5: status isn't the best option. And and over four different

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Speaker 5: plubisites that have been held between twenty twelve and today,

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Speaker 5: voters have consistently rejected the current territory status and favored

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Speaker 5: statehood as the best option for Puerto Rico's future.

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Speaker 1: What's been the biggest number on that?

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Speaker 5: The biggest number in supportive statehood. The most recent one

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Speaker 5: was fifty eight percent. And that really just shows that,

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Speaker 5: you know, nearly two thirds of the residents on the

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Speaker 5: island supports statehood versus independence. Got like eleven percent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it.

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Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong. So you got a large

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Speaker 1: majority like that. And there were three choices on the ballot,

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Speaker 1: not two, correct.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'll explain the third choice. Right, So I

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Speaker 5: mentioned independence, I mentioned statehood. There's a form of independence

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Speaker 5: called free association. And what this is is a relationship

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Speaker 5: the United States has with some of the former Pacific

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Speaker 5: Trust territories that are Palao, Federated States of Micronesia, and

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Speaker 5: the Marshall Islands, and they're basically independent countries. They've got

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Speaker 5: their own president, their own passport, their own constitution, but

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Speaker 5: the United States essentially.

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Speaker 4: Protects them militarily.

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Speaker 5: The United States uses them as a shield against the

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Speaker 5: potential influence of China in the Pacific, and in exchange,

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Speaker 5: they basically get some very limited federal support. But the

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Speaker 5: people there aren't United States citizens. And in Puerto Rico,

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Speaker 5: everyone born on the island since nineteen seventeen has been

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Speaker 5: a United States citizen. And I don't think anyone on

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Speaker 5: the island really wants to consider any possibility of having

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Speaker 5: us stripped of our United States citizenship, because what they

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Speaker 5: would do is it would separate the island's residents from

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Speaker 5: the three point two million on the island from the

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Speaker 5: more than six million Puerto Ricans that live stateside.

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Speaker 4: And who wants that?

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Speaker 1: No one? Oh yeah, I know, DC held won once

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Speaker 1: about ten years ago, a referendum. Do you think this

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Speaker 1: needs to be had again? Do you think these I've

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Speaker 1: always thought the referendums in Puerto Rico actually they were

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Speaker 1: pr efforts, right, It wasn't just about getting people on

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Speaker 1: the island to express themselves, but reminding us on the

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Speaker 1: mainland here, Hey, there are some basically some people who

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Speaker 1: are not getting full constitutional rights that are American citizens.

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Speaker 1: Do you think DC should be holding referendums more often

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Speaker 1: on this issue?

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Speaker 2: Well, while referendum would bring this issue to the masses,

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Speaker 2: similar to what Puerto Rico has been doing, we have

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Speaker 2: seen on a regular basis people walking around talking about DC,

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Speaker 2: stand going on the news. When it came to the

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Speaker 2: recent occupation where we had National Guard members in DC,

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Speaker 2: we have a record high or straight gays. Where is

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Speaker 2: the CNNs and the msnbcs we're talking about DC staylors.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's really important for us to keep

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Speaker 2: that energy. But I do also believe that we also

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Speaker 2: had to go to other states. You know a lot

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Speaker 2: of people all across this country. When I go to Utahs,

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Speaker 2: when I go to Colorado's they don't understand what's going

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Speaker 2: on in DC, and they think that the district is

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Speaker 2: just the White House, it's just Congress, it's just the statues,

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Speaker 2: but not the seven hundred thousand Americas living in DC. So, yes,

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Speaker 2: the referendum will help, but we also have other means

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Speaker 2: to get the message forward. As the child represented for

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Speaker 2: the past four years, I'm not only interacted with people

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Speaker 2: across the country.

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Speaker 6: We also engage with state legislators. We introduce a DC

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Speaker 6: statehood resolution in West Virginia. We contacted people in Utah.

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Speaker 6: We went to other states, especially red states, to get

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Speaker 6: people on record to show that they support DC stately

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Speaker 6: and as an a media impact, because today's state legislator

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Speaker 6: it's gonna be tomorrow's congressional candidate, and we can get

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Speaker 6: people to start becoming fans and champions of DDC stale

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Speaker 6: before going into office, we in DC have a much

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Speaker 6: better bet of getting that voting passage in the getting.

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Speaker 2: That majority in the Senate, and hopefully getting a president

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Speaker 2: that understands that this is not just a Parson issue.

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Speaker 2: This is an American rights issue. I mean, we fought

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Speaker 2: a war over tax station with our representation. We're still

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Speaker 2: seeing that happening today. And just combining the elements of

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Speaker 2: this country with the things that's happening today would be

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Speaker 2: really really important, like being vocal about the occupation and

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Speaker 2: not calling it a search, you know, use the words

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Speaker 2: that really mattered, that really engage people across this country

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Speaker 2: to really understand that, especially in today's time, DC residents

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Speaker 2: are so vulnerable compared to other areas. We see Brandon

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Speaker 2: Scott talking tough, we see we see Brandon Johnson Chicago

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Speaker 2: talking tough. We see Gavin Newsoen talking tough. But our mayor,

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Speaker 2: in certain ways, it's compromised because we're not a state.

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Speaker 1: And that's what she'll say. I mean, I think she'd

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Speaker 1: fight more if it wouldn't maybe wreck Home rule completely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she was in a real box here because

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Speaker 1: a Republican House might have stripped Home rule from DC.

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Speaker 2: They tried to. There's actually the Bowser Act in the House,

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Speaker 2: and it's said that Will Lily stripped away our only

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Speaker 2: way to elect our mayor, the only way to elect

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Speaker 2: our council, attorney generals under attack, and we're seeing marches

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Speaker 2: in the street of d C. We just passed the

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Speaker 2: No King's rally, but a lot of us in office

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Speaker 2: are afraid to speak on the same way because we're

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Speaker 2: so compromised by not being a state.

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Speaker 1: Let me play a little Devil's advocate here. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying I'm advocating this, but this has been I've been

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Speaker 1: here thirty five years and one of the alternative. You know,

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Speaker 1: just like with with there's sort of a third way

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Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico that some people have wanted to talk about,

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Speaker 1: there's a third way in d C, which is what

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Speaker 1: if DC became part of Maryland? What say you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the terms called retro session, you know, Virginia

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Speaker 2: to the way parts of DC in the past was.

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Speaker 1: I I live in the piece of I always say,

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Speaker 1: I live in Arlington. I tell people where's Arlington? I said.

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Speaker 1: If you look at a map of d C and

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Speaker 1: you see the missing square, We're the missing square.

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Speaker 2: You are in old DC, My friends, you slim back over.

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Speaker 1: No, I that's why I'm old d C. I'm here.

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Speaker 1: I'm here, trust me.

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Speaker 2: But for many reasons, culturally, financially, and politically, you know,

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Speaker 2: DC doesn't want to be part of Maryland, and Maryland

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Speaker 2: sorts thought doesn't want us. You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when it comes to our culture, Baltimore fights it.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt right there, the dominant culture in the city.

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Speaker 1: I get that, and they don't, you know, because if

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Speaker 1: d C became part of Maryland, the center of gravity

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Speaker 1: would all change in that state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So we want to be disagressives. We don't

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Speaker 2: want to fight the fight. We don't want to run

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Speaker 2: from them by We want to make sure we tree

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Speaker 2: like everybody else, nothing better than Maryland, Virginia, Ohioans want

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Speaker 2: to be treated the same exactly, George.

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Speaker 1: Let me throw up a one wrinkle by you that

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Speaker 1: I've always found a bit I've just been curious about.

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Speaker 1: Why shouldn't the Virgin Islands be part of the Puerto

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Speaker 1: Rico fight for DC statehood? Accuse me? First state of

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Speaker 1: not DC state? Why shouldn't Why shouldn't the Virgin Islands

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Speaker 1: sort of almost the same way we have of the

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian Islands as a state. You know, is because it's

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Speaker 1: the Virgin Island population is too small to be a

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Speaker 1: state on its own. Is that is? Is there any

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Speaker 1: way that that would be of help? Do you think

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Speaker 1: to your ability to lobby for statehood?

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Speaker 5: Well, Chuck, the reality is that the US Virgin Islands

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Speaker 5: was acquired at a different time by the United States.

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Speaker 5: They were acquired from Denmark and purchased I believe it

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Speaker 5: was around nineteen seventeen. Puerto Rico was acquired in Spanish

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Speaker 5: micrant Ward eighteen ninety eight. The culture and the language

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Speaker 5: is different. US Virgin Islands are predominantly African American roots

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Speaker 5: and speak predominantly English.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of intermixing, particularly on the Saint Croix,

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Speaker 5: with people from Puerto Rico, particularly from the municipality of Veeks,

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Speaker 5: which is right next to the US Virgin Islands. So

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Speaker 5: there are some strong connections there. But I definitely think

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Speaker 5: that both territories see their identities as unique and distinct

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Speaker 5: and separate. I don't think that there has been any

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Speaker 5: serious discussion, either in Puerto Rico or in the US

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Speaker 5: Virgin Islands of having the two territories combined under statehood. However,

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Speaker 5: you know, if you ask me if tomorrow Congress says.

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Speaker 4: We'll give you statehood if you add U.

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Speaker 5: S v I on as part of state, I'd be like,

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Speaker 5: I'll take it, you know, and you know, we'll we'll

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Speaker 5: we'll add them on and we'll treat them with respect,

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Speaker 5: and you know they'll be The question is informed consent

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Speaker 5: and consent of the government. Course is that something that

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Speaker 5: the people in USBI would want? And I don't know,

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Speaker 5: you know, they've been arguing and trying to figure out

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Speaker 5: if they can even establish a local constitution now for

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Speaker 5: several decades.

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Speaker 4: So you know that, I think is really what's at

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Speaker 4: the heart of it.

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Speaker 5: We can't just talk about putting together jurisdictions. We had

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Speaker 5: to go back to America's founding value, which is government

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Speaker 5: by consent of the government. That requires asking the people

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Speaker 5: of those jurisdictions what is that they want.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like

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Speaker 1: there's a reason. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury

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Speaker 1: twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million clients.

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Speaker 1: It includes cases where insurance companies offered next to nothing,

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Speaker 1: just hoping to get away with paying as little as possible.

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Speaker 1: Morgan and Morgan fought back ended up winning millions. In fact,

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Speaker 1: which was a staggering forty times the amount that the

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Speaker 1: insurance company originally offered. That original offer six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars twenty six million, six hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So with more than one thousand lawyers across

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Speaker 1: the country, they know how to deliver for everyday people,

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Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. So let's go

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Speaker 1: to strategy here. I've always believed, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at various statehood expansions, it was never because it

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Speaker 1: was a good idea to have statehood. It was there

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Speaker 1: were always political power considerations in the moment. You know,

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Speaker 1: I always remind people, you know why South Dakota is

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Speaker 1: a state because Republicans wanted another pair of senators, so

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Speaker 1: they decided to break up the Dakota. There's no other

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Speaker 1: re said there's two Dakotas, but it was they wanted.

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Speaker 1: This was during the fight, you know, the North Loan

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Speaker 1: out of state, the South Lounaita state, and they were

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Speaker 1: going to be all these back and forth. So you know,

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Speaker 1: this is this stuff gets more arbitrary than people realize.

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Speaker 1: The Dakotas is a perfect example. Their perception of DC

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Speaker 1: is that it would be two more Democratic senators, which

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Speaker 1: is why Republicans try to block it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty clear given the politics of Puerto Rico, you can't

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Speaker 1: you can't assume anything that it is automatically gonna be

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Speaker 1: one way or the other. You've got people like Rick

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Speaker 1: Scott and Marco Rubio, who for years as Florida senators,

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Speaker 1: have treated Puerto Rico as sort of, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've got a lot of Puerto Rico, Puerto Rican cities,

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Speaker 1: people of Puerto Rican descent living in Florida. You know,

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Speaker 1: we should help Puerto Rico. And so I've always thought

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Speaker 1: that the two either coming together or neither one gets statehood.

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Speaker 4: Do you buy that, you know, personally, I don't think so.

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Speaker 5: I think that DC and Puerto Rico have parallel issues

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Speaker 5: in the sense that they are both jurisdictions where you

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Speaker 5: have United States citizens that lack full voting rights and

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Speaker 5: lack full civil rights in the federal government that they

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Speaker 5: live under.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that needs to be addressed. But

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Speaker 4: the reality is that we're.

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Speaker 5: Also coming from different constitutional situations, and we're also coming

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Speaker 5: from different political situations. And I think that therefore, kind

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Speaker 5: of conflating the two issues and bringing trying to address

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Speaker 5: them both together is challenging, right. And in the case

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Speaker 5: of Puerto Rico, we are in a similar circumstance to

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Speaker 5: where Alaska and Hawaii were before their admission in nineteen

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Speaker 5: fifty nine, where we were US territories that have voted

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Speaker 5: for admission into statehood. And you know, Congress has the

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Speaker 5: power to admit us. There's no constitutional constraints to that.

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Speaker 5: The only thing that Congress needs to do is to

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Speaker 5: pass a law a bill in the House and in

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Speaker 5: the Senate and have the President sign it.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: In the case of the.

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Speaker 1: Made it for two thirds, there's no need for some

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Speaker 1: extra hurdle.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it just the case at Congress, exactly simple act

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Speaker 5: of Congress.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: In the case of Washington, d C. It can be admitted, uh,

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Speaker 5: in the same way. But there is the issue of

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Speaker 5: how do you deal with the territoriality of Washington, d C.

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Speaker 5: Versus the seat of government, right, And that is a

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Speaker 5: constitutional question that needs to be addressed. And it is

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Speaker 5: also possible that you know, in response to the twenty

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Speaker 5: third Amendment, another amendment to the Constitution may need to

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00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 5: be passed, and that really is quite different from the

435
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 5: you know, process of admitting Puerto Rico as a state.

436
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 5: I know that, and and fully respect all the different

437
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 5: ideas for how that can be done. But I'm just

438
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 5: saying it's a different track procedurally.

439
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: Oh, I address that because I've seen so. I know it.

440
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: When this got a little bit attraction when it passed

441
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: the House about a decade ago, we had you know,

442
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: there was I remember, I think some people had some

443
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: maps that in order to essentially make sure this wasn't

444
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: you know that you weren't violating the Constitution. The District

445
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 1: of Columbia would still exist. The Federal District would simply

446
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: shrink down to I want to say, you know, for

447
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: those thinking of the map out loud, think I guess

448
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: between Pennsylvania Avenue and the river essentially. But but maybe

449
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: you can give me some more details on that. Oh, yes,

450
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: you both are one.

451
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: Hundred percent right. Under the Constitution, a new state of Columbia,

452
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: which you know, our own version of the new DC

453
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 2: would look like we would basically shrink the US capital

454
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: to the federal encrep think the Congresses, think the Why House,

455
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: Supreme Court in the monuments outside of that would be

456
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: the new state of Columbia. Now, while my friend right

457
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: here is one hundred percent right. There are two different

458
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: tracks for Puerto Rico and DC becoming a state. When

459
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: it comes to the political reality of it, states are

460
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: added by the duo. There is no party will allow

461
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: one state to come in and potentially wreck the uneven

462
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 2: balance of power. Now, when Hawaii and Alaska were admitted

463
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 2: as into the Union, Hawaii was seen as a Republican

464
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 2: state and Alaska was seen as the liberal state. Now

465
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: in due time, they flipped. Now, unfortunately today's Republican Party,

466
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: they know they can't get new people to join their party,

467
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: so instead they just take away people's voting rights and

468
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 2: try to retract and restrict the amount of votes available.

469
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 2: So I don't think the Republican Party is that interested

470
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: in l n DC become a state. I don't think

471
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: they can win us over. However, they do feel in

472
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: my gad, I've talked to some sanators and talked to

473
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: some staffers in the House. The only way they'll really

474
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: start thinking about DC becoming a state is that they

475
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: can have a republic in Carowell to it. I know

476
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: in the past they were willing to grant Congresolman Norm

477
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 2: vote if they added a seat in usaw but like

478
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: I said before, there will be no democratic state at

479
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: it unless there's a Republican counterpart. And they're as sure

480
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: as hell will be here republican states at it. This

481
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: is a democratic a democratic counterpart. Now that may not

482
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: be fair, but as a reporter Steve Basemith said, the

483
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: only thing, the only thing that's fair is where pigs

484
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: are sold. So this is politics.

485
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: We have to deal with it.

486
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, in order for

487
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: DC become a state, they probably need to be that

488
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: counterbalancing acts to manage the plical difference.

489
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: Look, I want I'm gonna play moderator here. Look I

490
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: think I get it. I think I'm gonna just be honest.

491
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you need Puerto Rico as your partner to

492
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: get statehood. Puerto Rico, what's that? You need a dance partner?

493
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: And I think George is arguing, you know, I could

494
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: probably do this without a dance partner.

495
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: And I see, I.

496
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: Sort of see where George where you're coming from on that,

497
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: because there's been such a bipartisan history of both parties

498
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: going back and forth with the governor's office and both

499
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: parties successfully raising money off the island. Right there, is

500
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: a bit more of a bipartisan tradition in Puerto Rico

501
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: that probably wouldn't spook party leaders from either side of

502
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: the aisle.

503
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, this is not something that is

504
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 5: theoretical to me. I've actually served governors that have been

505
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 5: Republicans and Democrats. I've seen support on this issue from

506
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 5: both Democratic and Republican House and Senate members. The issue

507
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 5: has a long history of bipartisan support when it comes

508
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 5: to Puerto Rico. But what I can also very much

509
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 5: acknowledge is that, you know, Puerto Rico is a question

510
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 5: mark when it comes to where things will pan out,

511
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 5: you know, electorally after admission as a state. Just like

512
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 5: with Alaska and Hawaii, what you mentioned is one hundred

513
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: percent right. You know, they were looking at Alaska as

514
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 5: the democratic state and Hawaii as as the Republican state,

515
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 5: and you know, things ended.

516
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 4: Up being the exact opposite.

517
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 5: There's nothing that can guarantee that Puerto Rico, if it's

518
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 5: admitted into a state, will be a democratic state and

519
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 5: a republic or republican state. Although right now, if we

520
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 5: look at the current makeup of the political leadership in

521
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 5: Puerto Rico, the Resident Commission or Puerto Rico's non voting

522
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 5: member in the House is a Democrat, but the governor

523
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 5: is a Republican, and the speaker in Puerto Rico's houses

524
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 5: a Republican. The majority of the representatives in Portrico's legislature Republicans,

525
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 5: and the leader in the Senate is a Republican, and

526
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 5: the majority of the Senators in.

527
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: Puerto Rico are Republicans.

528
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 5: So it really does present a situation where members looking

529
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 5: at it from Washington need to actually look at what's

530
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 5: happening electorally on the island, and also the geographic reality

531
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 5: of Puerto Rico. Much like any other state, the urban

532
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 5: areas tend to be significantly more liberal, and if you

533
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 5: look at the rest of Puerto Rico, the rural areas

534
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 5: tend to be significantly more conservative. And that's a little

535
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 5: bit of a challenge for DC because DC is almost

536
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 5: entirely an urban area right in.

537
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: If the population estimates, it would be four congressional seats

538
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: for Puerto Rico roughly, how would that break up. Would

539
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: it be two in San Juan and then the rest

540
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: of the island would be broken up that way or.

541
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 5: How it would depend on how the districting is done,

542
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 5: which is also something very interesting because as we're seeing

543
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 5: right now with the whole effort to redo districting nationwide,

544
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 5: if you had a Republican majority in Portos we have

545
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 5: right now decide to draw district maps that would you know,

546
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 5: end up favoring Republicans, then you know, maybe that could

547
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 5: be the.

548
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: Outcome woe or something.

549
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 4: But you know, the realities we don't know.

550
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 5: When we've had shadow delegations appointed and then elected to

551
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 5: serve and represent Puerto Rico, we've had them fifty to

552
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 5: fifty split. They've been half Democrats and half Republicans, And

553
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 5: I think that ultimately that is actually what's most representative

554
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 5: of the island's population because we've never had the chance

555
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 5: to draw our own district maps and elect our own

556
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 5: centers representatives, so we just have to use the data

557
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 5: that we have up to nout.

558
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: Look. In total, there are four point three million people

559
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: without full American citizens, without full rights that live in

560
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: these territories, either District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, or any

561
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: of these states and territories. Is there a middle ground

562
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: at all that would give everybody more rights without statehood?

563
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, let me start with you. I don't think so.

564
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: I'll be quite honest, I don't think so. If the

565
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: question was just about voting representation in Congress, then maybe

566
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: there'll be a half measure that makes everybody happy.

567
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: Well, you might get a member in the House, but

568
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: not in the Senate, like right, right, the conversations that we're.

569
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: Having, but that requires a constitutional amendment. We're back to that.

570
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: But give me one second. So when we had in

571
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five our local budget slash and we had

572
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: to almost get rid of teachers and firefighters, when you're

573
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: seeing the President send the National Guard to patrol areas

574
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: in our communities and send ice to grab people face

575
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: off how they look. The only thing that protects DC

576
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: residents is statehood. This is no longer just how many

577
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: votes we can count Congress. This is really an opportunity

578
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,479
Speaker 2: for DC residents to have full ownership over our lives

579
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: on local governance. There is no half measure to it.

580
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: I know. Earlier my friend here said we're far away

581
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: from from d C State. Well, within the last six

582
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: years we passed the d C State and the Missions

583
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: Act in the House. I would say anything like that. Puerto Rico,

584
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 2: we have forty more than forty centers cosponds from the

585
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 2: bill to make DC a state. I don't know we're

586
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: out Puerto Rico. So I do believe there is a

587
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: pathway forward for DC residents to become residents of the state.

588
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: I think we have to push forard on that because

589
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: it means so much more than just count of both

590
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: of Congress.

591
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: George, the same question to you, do you think there's

592
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: a is there some half measure that gives more rights

593
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: to whether you live in Guam, Puerto Rico, or DC.

594
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 5: So you know, I think with the smaller territories in

595
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 5: the Pacific and the US Virgin Islands, there is a

596
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 5: separate question than the one that we have for Washington,

597
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 5: d C. And for Puerto Rico, just because of the

598
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 5: population size, right, and the fact that in none of

599
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 5: those territories they've actually expressed themselves by votes that they

600
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 5: want to end their territorial status and that they want statehood.

601
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 5: One thing that is one hundred percent in alignment between

602
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 5: DC and Puerto Rico is that in both places you've

603
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 5: had voters express their consent to ending the territorial status

604
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 5: in the case of Puerto Rico and the seat of

605
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 5: government status in the case of DC and you know,

606
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 5: express their desire for statehood. The half measures don't work,

607
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 5: and i'll tell you why. In the case of Puerto Rico,

608
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 5: you can get additional federal funding and maybe treated you know,

609
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 5: equally in certain federal programs, but the territorial clause allows

610
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 5: any future Congress to claw that back at any point.

611
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 5: So even if you can get like full Medicaid parity

612
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 5: or full parody nutritional assistance or whatever else that we

613
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 5: don't have unequal right now, any future Congress can say, no,

614
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 5: we're taking it away, and that you can't build an

615
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 5: economy that's sustainable.

616
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 4: Off of that.

617
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 5: And then the other piece is that ultimately, if every

618
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 5: single day, Congress and the federal government are passing laws

619
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 5: and regulations that apply to the territory, and Puerto Rico

620
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 5: doesn't have representation that's equal in the House and zero

621
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 5: presentation in the Senate, and doesn't have any representation in

622
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 5: the Electoral College, then how can we expect to have

623
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 5: oversight over the federal agencies that apply these laws and policies,

624
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: And how can we expect the interests and the goals

625
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 5: and aspirations of the US citizens of Puerto Rico to

626
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 5: be taken into account in the legislative process. You can't

627
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 5: and any half measures to try to give Puerto Rico,

628
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 5: you know, and a representative in the House, or you know,

629
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 5: a single representative that can vote. That would require constitutional

630
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 5: a hounta. That's harder than passing statehood. Right, It's easier

631
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 5: to pass a statehood admission bill than it is to

632
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 5: pass an amendment to give Puerto Rico one voting representative

633
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 5: in the House, and that single vote would not compensate

634
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 5: that island for the representational gap in the demographic democratic

635
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 5: deficit that currently exists.

636
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: The Congressional Black Caucus has been a huge advocate of

637
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: DC statehood, and it may explain why a bill got

638
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: on the floor of the House and did get passed.

639
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: What has been the How would you explain why there

640
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: hasn't been a similar effort for Puerto Rico.

641
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 5: Well, you know, the reality is that we have had

642
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 5: two bills past the House, one in twenty ten and

643
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 5: the most recent one in twenty twenty two. The last

644
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 5: one in twenty twenty two, it's called the Puerto Rico

645
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 5: Status Act, passed with a bipartisan majority that included unanimous

646
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 5: Democratic support in the House and sixteen Republican votes, which is,

647
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 5: you know, quite impressive given this overall level of polarization

648
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 5: that we see in American politics nowadays. The bill had

649
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 5: at that point a state of administration policy from UH

650
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 5: then President Biden, and in the following session of Congress

651
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 5: we did have that bill reintroduced because the US Senate

652
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 5: just didn't have enough time to address you say.

653
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: LA status, what what is? What would specifically would that

654
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: bill do? Put it basically that.

655
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 5: Congress has a responsibility and Puerto Rico's colonial territory status

656
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 5: and offers voters UH single vote between the three non

657
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 5: territorial options of statehood, UH, independence and independence with free association,

658
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 5: which is this bilatteral Marshaled Marshall Island idea.

659
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

660
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 5: And what ended up happening is the Senate didn't pass

661
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 5: that UH, but it was reintroduced in the following session,

662
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 5: and we had twenty seven senators supported, all of them Democrats, UH,

663
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 5: no Rick Scott, no Rick Scott, and no Marco Ruvial. However,

664
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 5: since then, we have had at least one Republican senator

665
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 5: express his support for Puerto Rico's statehood, and that is

666
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 5: the Senator from Oklahoma, Mark Wayne Mullen, which is also

667
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 5: very interesting.

668
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 4: Because he's just the President's here exactly right.

669
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 5: So it does reflect the continued bipartisan nature of the

670
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 5: Puerto Rico.

671
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: Statehood push.

672
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 5: But what ended up happening in Puerto Rico is that

673
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 5: Congress didn't act, but locally, we decided, you know what,

674
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 5: we're going to continue sending the message from our citizenry.

675
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 5: So we took that same ballot that was designed in

676
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 5: the Puerto Rico Status Act, and we put it up

677
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 5: to voters literally exactly as it was written and passed

678
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 5: by the House of Representatives. And that's what happened last November,

679
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 5: and fifty eight percent of voters supported statehood for Puerto Rico.

680
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: And this was the strongest version of independence that's ever

681
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: been on the meaning the independence with essentially protection from

682
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: the United States, and the fact that that couldn't get

683
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: the number that it got, I.

684
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 5: Think, yeah, so so independence just beer independence got like

685
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 5: just under twelve percent, eleven point eight free association, which

686
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 5: is a form of independence that in that case was

687
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 5: included even continued US citizenship after you know, being made

688
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 5: a sovereign country, right, which I ultimately don't think that

689
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 5: Congress would pass it in that way. But you know,

690
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 5: it was a really nice offer that only got twenty

691
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 5: nine percent, and you ended up with fifty eight percent

692
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 5: supporting you know, full statehood, and that really shows that

693
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 5: the majority of people in Puerto Rico don't want to

694
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 5: continue under the current territory status and they want statehood.

695
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 5: And now it's it's up to Congress act. But as

696
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 5: Aye said, it's not just Congress. It's up to the

697
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 5: American people across all all of the states to say,

698
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 5: we need to end a circumstance where we have nearly

699
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 5: four million fellow American citizens that are being denied their

700
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 5: full rights, and we need to have an active conversation

701
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 5: about how we offer full enfranchisement and full democratic rights

702
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 5: to the citizens of Puerto Rico, of DC, and even

703
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 5: of the other territories.

704
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 4: And there may be.

705
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 5: Different solutions for each one, but that fundamental principle, that's

706
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 5: a debate that has to happen for America as a whole.

707
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from

708
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,399
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709
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710
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711
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712
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Speaker 1: for college? And lo and behold, my dad had one

713
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Speaker 1: life insurance policy that we found wasn't a lot, but

714
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Speaker 1: it was important at the time, and it's why I

715
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Speaker 1: was able to go to college. Little did he know

716
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717
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718
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719
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720
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721
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724
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726
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727
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728
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729
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730
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731
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732
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733
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734
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735
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736
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737
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Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. I'm just curious, you know,

738
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: he was talking about how he's been going to other

739
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: states trying to get resolutions passed. Have you tried that?

740
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: And I was just inton, I was just gonna say,

741
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: let's do it Florida, New York. Right, if you had

742
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: a Governor de Santis at a Governor Holcal signing the

743
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: same resolution, that'd be pretty good, a pretty good piece

744
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: of marketing material for you with and.

745
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: And we're working on that.

746
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 5: There is a state side advocacy movement that supports statehood

747
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 5: for Puerto Rico. We've been working on that in the

748
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 5: Statehood Council for many years. There's also been another effort

749
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 5: called the Extended Congressional Delegation that's been working on it

750
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 5: for the past few years. And there's literally, you know,

751
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 5: tens of thousands of US citizens from across the country

752
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 5: that support statehood for Puerto Rico. And you know, also

753
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 5: national polling has shown this. You know, I think that

754
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 5: the Gallup polls have shown for decades that over you know,

755
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 5: sixty percent of Americans support statehood for Puerto Rico.

756
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: I want to get before I let you both go,

757
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: I want to get to the financial consequences of a

758
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: lack of statehood. You hinted at it a bit, George, Oh, yeah,

759
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: you were talking. We were talking a bit more about

760
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: obviously control of the budget, right, some of that home

761
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: rule decisions. But is there a you know, do you

762
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: get less Medicaid reimbursements in DC because of the status?

763
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: What do you can you put a dollar figure on

764
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: what you think statehood costs the district financially.

765
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: We lose millions, if not billions of dollars by not

766
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 2: being a state. Years ago, when we were battling the

767
00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: pandemic together and they passed legislation that will provide billions

768
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: of dollars to shade the combat the COVID pandemic, d

769
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 2: C was regulated to becoming a territory. It's released. We

770
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: lost about half a million, half a billion dollars.

771
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: So did Wyoming get more money?

772
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: Wyoming got more, Maryland got more, Virginia.

773
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: Got less people. Yeah, than the district. That's why sing

774
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: Wyoming absolutely.

775
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: And unlike Puerto Rico on other locations, we were a

776
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 2: landlocked So the problems that Maryland was spilled into d C.

777
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: And just to piggyback on from a previous conversation, the

778
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: things I've done in other states were two tiered. It

779
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 2: wasn't just enough to tell people that we deserved DC statehood.

780
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: We also made sure that folks understood how their lives

781
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: would improve by us becoming a state, us having voter representation.

782
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: When I went to Boone County, West Virginia, where I

783
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: was the only black guy around, I didn't stop the

784
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 2: conversation by d C residsts, mostly minority people deserve equal rights.

785
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: We talked about the issues that they cared about, let

786
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 2: in their water, not having an access to employment, the

787
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: coal industry is evaporating, and talking about some of the

788
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: things that I've experienced living in common sights south East Washington,

789
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 2: d C. Bridge of those gaps and understanding that a

790
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: center from d C, voting representative from d C can

791
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: actually pass legislation that then center mansion or capital wasn't

792
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 2: passing and really engaging them in a way that they

793
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: felt that they gained from DC becoming a state.

794
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 4: It helped a lot.

795
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: And I advise anybody who's buying for a statement to

796
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 2: also make sure that we let them know what their

797
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: investment needs to folks living in other places outside of

798
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico or outside of d C.

799
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: George put a dollar figure on it. You were talking

800
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: about when it comes to certain funding things and the

801
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: lack of equity. Oh, you just talked about it with

802
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: COVID funding. If Wyoming is getting more dollars for fewer

803
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: people than DC, that does seem unequal. What's give me

804
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: a few examples in Puerto Rico.

805
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 4: In the case of.

806
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 5: Puerto Rico, it is definitely very explicit that Puerto Rico

807
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 5: receives unequal treatment under federal laws and programs. And this

808
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 5: not only impacts negatively the quality of life of people

809
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 5: on the island, but it actually spurs people and pushes

810
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 5: them to leave.

811
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 4: Right.

812
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: Oh, that's why they I mean, that's why they leave

813
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: right Not usually?

814
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, And so the areas some of the main areas

815
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 5: where Porto Rico gets treated unequally. Most egregious is in

816
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 5: Medicare and Medicaid, so our elderly people don't get the

817
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,959
Speaker 5: same level of financial support for their medical care.

818
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 4: So let's say if the average.

819
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 5: Medicare Medicare patient in the States gets about fifteen thousand

820
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 5: dollars per year given to them for their healthcare coverage,

821
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 5: in Porto Rico's five, you know, and that means that

822
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 5: there's a huge reduction in the amount of money going

823
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 5: into our medical service providers. Our hospitals are nurses, so

824
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 5: all the basic care are you know, lower income family

825
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 5: These in Medicaid get you know, less support services too,

826
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 5: and that has a massively negative impact on the economy

827
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 5: because ultimately, these.

828
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 4: People are your workforce.

829
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 5: So if they're if they're more sick, if they're more

830
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 5: impacted by chronic illnesses that aren't being able to be treated.

831
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 5: Because with Puerto Rico we don't have enough money in

832
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 5: our Medicaid system to have long term care access, that's

833
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 5: a huge problem for our economy and our society, and

834
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 5: it also impacts.

835
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 4: The local budget.

836
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 5: Portugo gets different treatment under nutritional assistance, so we have

837
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 5: one of the highest child poverty rates in the entire

838
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 5: United States, and and that's devastating. You're talking about, you know,

839
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 5: money that is not coming in to support children in

840
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 5: their critical moments of physiological development, and that impacts educational outcomes,

841
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 5: that impacts long term outcomes in terms of their socioeconomic

842
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 5: mobility because you know, you just didn't get the support

843
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 5: at the ritical moments when when you needed it. So

844
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 5: these deficiencies and lack of equality amount to tens of

845
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 5: billions of dollars in less money that's flowing through the

846
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 5: economy in Puerto Rico every single year. And as a result,

847
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 5: the overall quality of life on the island is lower,

848
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 5: which means more people leave, and then that creates a

849
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 5: negative spiral that we're in. The more people leave, the

850
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 5: more consumer demand goes down. The more consumer demand goes down,

851
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 5: the more businesses have to shutter, the more your tax

852
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 5: base gets reduced, the worse your fiscal circumstance, you know,

853
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 5: the higher the share of per capita debt for the

854
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 5: debt that you already have in your jurisdiction. But you know,

855
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 5: I think one key point that made that I would

856
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 5: like to also reiterate. You know a lot of people

857
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 5: stateside have this misconception that Puerto Rico is just a

858
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 5: jurisdiction that takes from the federal government, and that just

859
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 5: is not true. Puerto Rico actually pays more in federal

860
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 5: taxes than at least three states in the nation, even

861
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 5: though in Puerto Rico, local residents do not pay federal

862
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 5: income taxes on their income that they derive from the island.

863
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 5: And the other piece is that in Puerto Rico, we

864
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 5: have about seventy billion dollars worth of annual interstate commerce

865
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 5: between the island and the States. So Puerto Rico actually

866
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 5: helps to generate profits and jobs for companies stateside that

867
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 5: are employing people and that are making an economic difference

868
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 5: in Florida, in New York, in Texas, you know, throughout

869
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 5: the entire country. Because guess what, for example, in Puerto

870
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 5: Rico we import you know, I think it's over eighty

871
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 5: eighty five percent of the you know, fresh fruit products.

872
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 4: Most of that's coming from the States. Most of that

873
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 4: is being farmed state side.

874
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 5: So if we grow the pie by giving Puerto Rico

875
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 5: the quality that it needs to have an equal playing field,

876
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 5: what we see is the same thing we saw with Alaskan, Hawaii,

877
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 5: which is a process of economic integration where the territories

878
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 5: grew economically in a very significant way and they ended

879
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 5: up helping the other states because then those states had

880
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 5: more of a market to sell their products and services

881
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 5: to and we grow.

882
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 4: The pie of the American economy as a whole.

883
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: Look, I can confess that I know what happens to

884
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: DC is that people leave because of the lack of representation,

885
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: and so I know the tax base would be stronger

886
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: in DC they had they had statehood. You know, people

887
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: like myself might not have left, and others might not

888
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: have left. I'm curious.

889
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 5: I'm a former DC resident myself, by the way, and

890
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 5: now live in Virginia.

891
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: So no, you sit there and you you know it.

892
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: The unfairness, unfair treatment of DC. Everybody starts. You know,

893
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you worry about yourself, right,

894
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: bottom line, everybody does. Last question for both of you,

895
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll start with you, which is are there

896
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: businesses that won't relocate to d C because of the

897
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: lack of statehood? And is that a maybe? Is there

898
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: a way to fire up the business world to support

899
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: something like this as well? I just think about other

900
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: ways to create more support outside of traditional political lines.

901
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, right now there is a recession in DC.

902
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 2: We are the highest unemployment because of the massive cuts,

903
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 2: whether it's Elon Musks, Doge, or Trump's continue planning to

904
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: fire more federal workers during the shutdown. DC residents are

905
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 2: in need of a new industry. And one industry that

906
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 2: comes to mind us really, obviously, maybe because I'm a

907
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: Nigerian American, is the international development scene. You go to

908
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 2: New York, you go to Manhattan, you see you and

909
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: a Seth, You see the un you even see the

910
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 2: Millennium Hotel on the Manhattan Island. And imagine if DC

911
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 2: had that scene. Given our lack of statehood, given our

912
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: political stagnation, the fact that because we're not a state,

913
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 2: we don't have governors, we don't have a thousand different

914
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: things could run for, Like if you're in Virginia or

915
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: man we only have looks like four or five seeds.

916
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: It makes it much harder for us to create those

917
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 2: new industries. Whereas all we leaned on was the government.

918
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: All we leaned on was contractors and sings like that.

919
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: So when Trump kind of sweeps them away, where it

920
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 2: can't just left but naked outside.

921
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: It's tough to diversify your economy.

922
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think something we should do is bring in

923
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: those NGOs, those things that we've see in other areas,

924
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: because DC can be the home of that, but lack

925
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: we stay here. We have seen how hard it is

926
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 2: to do the best and bring in and recruit businesses

927
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 2: and take a chance on the niches capital.

928
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: George, I assume there's some business because you talk about

929
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: that that specific law that if you earn money on

930
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: the island you supposedly don't get to pay taxes on

931
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: which feels like more like a loophole for an accountant

932
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: than it is like a pragmatic approach to building a business. Yeah.

933
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 5: So, you know, the issue with Puerto Rico's economic development

934
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 5: model since the nineteen fifties and then accelerated more recently,

935
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 5: is that a lot of the economic development has been

936
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 5: industrialization by invitation based on tax exemption, right since Puerto

937
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 5: Rico is not subject to federal income taxes for income

938
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 5: derived on the island or federal corporate taxes for income

939
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 5: derived on the island. For Unfortunately, that same model that

940
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 5: was done for the industrialization of Puerto Rico in the

941
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 5: nineteen fifties and sixties. That led to a massive manufacturing

942
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 5: base on the island. We produce many of the top

943
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 5: ten pharmaceuticals for the United States. We do a ton

944
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 5: of pacemakers and other medical devices. So a lot of

945
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 5: people think about Puerto Rico. They think is like beaches

946
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 5: and rama. Right, It's not just that we've got some

947
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 5: really amazing advanced manufacturing that's going on on the island.

948
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 4: It's critical to meet America's national supply chain.

949
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 5: But if that development is all based on federal tax

950
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 5: loopholes that at any point future Congress can change, you

951
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 5: create a fragility in Puerto Rico's economic development model. And

952
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 5: that's exactly what happened with a provision of the IRS

953
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 5: tax Code called Section nine thirty six. It was phased

954
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 5: out from nineteen ninety six to two thousand and six,

955
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 5: and we did see a significant decline in manufacturing on

956
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 5: the island. With statehood, what you get is you get

957
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 5: more certainty around the possibility of investing in the jurisdiction

958
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 5: because you know what you're.

959
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 4: Going to get.

960
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 5: You know that you're going to get equal treatment to

961
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 5: all the other states. You're not going to have a

962
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 5: circumstance where Congress, for example, extends the medicaid funding for

963
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 5: a little while and then decides to drop it off afterwards,

964
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 5: or improves you in this area and then takes away

965
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 5: this tax break. The other thing that you get when

966
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 5: you have statehood is you have senators and representatives that

967
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 5: can fight, and they can advocate, and they can trade

968
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 5: their votes, and they can make sure that whenever a

969
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 5: bill passes, whether it's on transportation issues, environmental issues, labor issues,

970
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 5: education issues, the interests of your constituents in your jurisdiction

971
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 5: are taken into account. And right now we don't have that,

972
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 5: and that is a huge limiting factor for our economic development.

973
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: Here's what I can tell you. Any American citizen living

974
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: in one of the fifty states, if they if they

975
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: left one of those fifty states and realize what rights

976
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: they don't have living in the district in Puerto Rico,

977
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 1: they'd be angry. And what's interesting about this is that

978
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,760
Speaker 1: giving STATA to DC and Puerto Rico wouldn't change anybody

979
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: else's life in any other of the fifty states. It

980
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: is what would be the argument that what hard I

981
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: can't think of the argument of harm to the other

982
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: fifty states. No, I guess it would be carving up

983
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: go ahead.

984
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've heard things like people want to see

985
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 2: only fifty stars in the flag but don't know that

986
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 2: fifty Yeah, that's ridiculous, but also an incentive. There are

987
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: people who would like being the fiftieth vogue, being the

988
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: forty ninth folks.

989
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: So even if so, somebody will enjoy being the fifty

990
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: second vote or the fifty third vote. What's wrong with that?

991
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 2: You know?

992
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: I could do, man, there's fifty two cards in a deck.

993
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: We could have fifty two stars on a flag. I

994
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: want to bring you back to the hell shot. You

995
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: gotta come on me.

996
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 2: Like me.

997
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean, my issue is fifty one. That's harder to

998
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: divide up. Fifty two. That's you know, even number. We

999
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: know how to work that. But that's the yeah, I mean,

1000
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: in all seriousness, you know, other than I guess, dividing

1001
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: up the pie. But these are all American citizens already,

1002
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 1: so they're already getting a smaller piece of the pie,

1003
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,439
Speaker 1: but they should be getting a fuller one.

1004
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 5: So way was transparent with regards to the issue of

1005
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 5: political power. And you know, some people feeling threatened by

1006
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 5: the potential admission of a new state. You know, I'll

1007
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 5: be transparent with the issue of language and culture. You know,

1008
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 5: there's some people who outright argue that if Puerto Rico

1009
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 5: were admitted into the Union, you know, we'd suddenly have

1010
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 5: you know, a whole bunch of US citizens that speak Spanish.

1011
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 5: And to me, that argument is laughable because, believe it

1012
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 5: or not, the United States has more Spanish speakers as

1013
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 5: current United States citizens than Puerto Rico does, right, you know,

1014
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 5: there's forty million, you know, Hispanics in the United States.

1015
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 4: Spanish is the second most spoken language in the I.

1016
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: Don't mean interrupt, but how many states were added in

1017
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: the in the nineteenth century where majority spoke German? Yeah,

1018
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: a majority spoke right Like, I mean this, this is

1019
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: not We did this all the time in the nineteenth century.

1020
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 5: And there's many states to this day that have multiple

1021
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 5: official languages Alaska, why Alaska, and New Mexico, some of

1022
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 5: them even have them baked into their constitution for God's sakes.

1023
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 5: So if that hasn't been an issue for them, why

1024
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 5: isn't an issue for us?

1025
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 4: Now? I think it's just another cheap excuse.

1026
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: Well, look, I think that there's no doubt. There's no

1027
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: doubt that some people listening to this or watching this

1028
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: will assume that identity is playing a bigger part of

1029
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: this than any of us want to talk about. And

1030
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,919
Speaker 1: it's hard to separate it out right. You just brought

1031
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: up the language issue, George. Oh yeah, we know that

1032
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: there's others that you know, the having two black senators

1033
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: and you just sitt there going it kind of feels antiquated, right,

1034
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: These arguments feel very early twentieth century at best.

1035
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, And there are things that America has to

1036
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 5: work through if we're going to become a stronger, more democratic,

1037
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 5: more inclusive country and a country that really abides by

1038
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 5: its founding values of equal justice under the law and

1039
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 5: government by consent to the government.

1040
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: Uh. And I'll use the phrase more perfect union. That's right,

1041
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,479
Speaker 1: you got this would help us be a more perfect union.

1042
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: The message that would be sent if we did have

1043
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: two states that were majority minority in this country, it

1044
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: would it would speak volumes around the world anyway.

1045
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and.

1046
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: George, you guys are terrific at this. It almost was

1047
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: a mini debate, is but but it wasn't meant. I mean,

1048
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: I really look, I I'm the I'm the you know,

1049
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: the the faux expert here of political what what of

1050
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: the political side. So I do believe ultimately, you know,

1051
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: you guys will live together or die together on this.

1052
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: But we shall see. Oh yeah, and George, good luck

1053
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: to both of you.

1054
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:46,919
Speaker 4: Appreciate it so much