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Speaker 1: Dave had a lot of talk right now about college

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Speaker 1: football with the big championship game on Monday.

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Speaker 2: Oh you noticed that, did you? I didn't notice that.

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Speaker 2: I forget. I know it's one of our big ten fives.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, Michigan Wolverines and Washington Huskies. But a lot

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Speaker 1: of talk not just about the game on the field,

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Speaker 1: but the money behind it and whether how much of

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Speaker 1: that's going to be shared with the players, And.

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Speaker 3: Boy, is there a lot of money going around to

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Speaker 3: take us through as somebody who really knows college football

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Speaker 3: like nobody else, George Pine, He's ruined Capital Founders. You know, George,

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Speaker 3: great to have you back with us.

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Speaker 2: So, first of all, the news today.

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Speaker 3: ESPN's got an extension now on the championship games. I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of them may have to do football

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Speaker 3: just under a billion dollars a billion dollars pay now,

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Speaker 3: is there anything left of the amateur part of this

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Speaker 3: athletics as opposed as the professional.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of value in college sports.

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Speaker 4: It's exciting, and of course that's for forty sports men's

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Speaker 4: and women. You know, the for a billion dollars or

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Speaker 4: one hundred million or so a year, you know, the

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Speaker 4: college football playoffs is going to go for a billion

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Speaker 4: five to two point three billion just for the playoffs

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Speaker 4: in college football. So this shows the disparity between college

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Speaker 4: football and all the other sports out there.

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Speaker 3: So where does this all go next? As you know,

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Speaker 3: some coaches, including mister Harbaugh, my coach at Michigan, has

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Speaker 3: said we should start paying the players. Is that inevitable?

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Speaker 2: Well, a couple things. One great games this weekend.

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Speaker 4: Both games went down to the last play, so the

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Speaker 4: player movement really didn't hurt the quality of the competition.

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Speaker 4: Where it's headed, I think you're going to have to

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Speaker 4: pay the players. I mean, the college football is the

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Speaker 4: number two sport in America in attendance, in television ratings,

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Speaker 4: generate six to eight billion dollars a year. And I

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Speaker 4: think what those players deserve to be paid? And I

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Speaker 4: think you see the courts now recognizing that that the players,

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Speaker 4: you can't restrict their trade, their motion. They need to

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Speaker 4: be paid and share in some of that money. What

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Speaker 4: does that look like?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 1: Where does that money come from? Does that flow from

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Speaker 1: the schools directly or is that going to come from

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Speaker 1: the NCAA direct.

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Speaker 4: It's going to come from the schools, right and what

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Speaker 4: you're going to see, I think eventually is the players

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Speaker 4: will be bargaining collectively. I think that they're probably going

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Speaker 4: to have to do individual contracts so that they can

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Speaker 4: restrict the movement. I mean competitors, universities. Our competitors cannot

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Speaker 4: restrict the movement of players without compensation.

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Speaker 2: And with that kind of money generating.

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Speaker 4: Around, you're gonna have to bargain collectively and guys will

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Speaker 4: have to do individual contract.

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Speaker 1: That's going to be interesting, and of course that's going

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Speaker 1: to be messy for a lot of schools.

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Speaker 2: And I am curious.

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Speaker 1: I mean not to brag David, but Northwestern University, the Wildcats,

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Speaker 1: the team they had actually attempted several years ago to

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Speaker 1: unionize and of course that ran into failures in the

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Speaker 1: court system. What's different now that would allow something like

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Speaker 1: that to happen that they couldn't do a fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 2: I think the money has just become so significant.

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Speaker 4: So if you take a step back, it's the success

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Speaker 4: of college sports. It's amazing, people love it, but it's

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Speaker 4: huge business. And I think as a fairness principle, the

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Speaker 4: guy you know, you think about college football playoff, they're

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Speaker 4: going to be getting over one hundred million per for

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Speaker 4: one game, so the guys participating in that game share

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Speaker 4: in that economic success. I think nine out of ten

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Speaker 4: reasonable people say yes. So I think you know the

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Speaker 4: money is so overwhelming that is how much?

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Speaker 1: How much do you think could actually go to the players?

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Speaker 1: I mean we were talking in a situation where a

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Speaker 1: college player, in theory, a top here at college fear

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Speaker 1: can be making more than maybe sort of a middle

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Speaker 1: of the road professional athlete.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how it goes that far, but I

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Speaker 4: think there'll be some sharing. And of course you have

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Speaker 4: other things too, work conditions, you know how much they

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Speaker 4: do in training, what the off season looks like, how

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Speaker 4: people move around. And it's complicated because the people there

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Speaker 4: get in education. So you're trying to balance education, economic

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Speaker 4: fairness and keeping a reasonable model, and those are the

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Speaker 4: things the industry is grappling with and it's quite complex,

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Speaker 4: and part of the hard part is it's complex in

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Speaker 4: a fragmented industry.

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Speaker 3: Well exactly, it's complex, and it's a huge change, a

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Speaker 3: real change. Who's going to really be in charge of

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Speaker 3: managing that chang is the NCAA up to that job.

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Speaker 3: Not everybody has complete confidence in NCAAA.

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Speaker 4: I think the NCAAA has a very difficult job. There

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Speaker 4: are eleven hundred members. We're talking probably one hundred and

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Speaker 4: thirty football members here, and even you could argue a

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Speaker 4: smaller number.

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Speaker 2: And so the nc double A is in a no

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Speaker 2: win situation. And the challenges.

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Speaker 4: It's very fragmented industry colleges, as you know, the colleges

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Speaker 4: switch conferences, coaches switch teams, Athletic directors move around, presidents

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Speaker 4: move around. Players are restricted players that are not compensated.

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Speaker 4: That's not gonna fly. So I think it's either gonna

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Speaker 4: have one or two things. The courts are gonna lead,

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Speaker 4: like they did with the NAL. People knew the NAL

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Speaker 4: was coming for five years. The industry could not agree.

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Speaker 4: The courts led the way. Same thing here. The courts

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Speaker 4: will either lead the way or I hope, because I

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Speaker 4: love the sports, I'd love to see the industry coalesce

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Speaker 4: and come together.

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Speaker 2: With the solution.

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Speaker 4: So it'll be one or two, the courts or the industry.

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Speaker 4: The reason it's up in the air is it's so fragmented.

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Speaker 4: So you say you love the sport, we do. I

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Speaker 4: know Romayan loves the sport.

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Speaker 3: How do you preserve the sport though, the competitiveness of

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Speaker 3: the sport, because in professional for example, you have to

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Speaker 3: really manage parody because otherwise you get the haves and

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Speaker 3: the have nots and the games aren't very good.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's gonna be very complicated.

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Speaker 4: You have all those issues education, parity, fairness, very complex issues,

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Speaker 4: and that's why it's hard to find a consensus amongst

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Speaker 4: competitors of what to do. And so that's why it's

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Speaker 4: going to be tricky, and that's why an inability degree

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Speaker 4: could lead to.

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Speaker 2: The courts deciding and not the industry.

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Speaker 1: We've had a little space now since the name image

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Speaker 1: likeness became a law of the land.

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Speaker 2: For lack of a better phrasier.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything we can learn from the rollout and

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Speaker 1: implementation of that in terms of extrapolating what a rollout

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Speaker 1: of actually paying the payers directly would be.

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Speaker 4: Well, there were nil was hoped to be based on

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Speaker 4: endorsement revenue. It became a legal way to pay players, right,

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Speaker 4: and had unintended consequences in the competition of the sport,

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Speaker 4: and people don't like that. And that's why I think

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Speaker 4: be better if you had things collectively bargained and people

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Speaker 4: did contracts because you'd have predictability, you'd have.

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Speaker 2: Rules, it'd be better organized.

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Speaker 4: The nil kind of led to a free for all,

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Speaker 4: and the intended consequence and intention was to pay the

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Speaker 4: players for endorsements, and it came really pay to play.

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Speaker 3: So we've talked about some of the disparities among schools.

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Speaker 3: What about among sports, because we're now about football here,

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Speaker 3: what does this do the so called lesser sports a

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Speaker 3: lot of these schools do they get left behind?

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Speaker 2: It's primarily football.

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Speaker 4: Basketball has meaningful value too, but the rest of the

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Speaker 4: sports are really.

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Speaker 2: Not in the same area. And one of the concerns

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Speaker 2: there are.

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Speaker 4: One are Title nine, how it affect women's athletics, and

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Speaker 4: two is the Olympic movement. The Olympic movement internationally, many

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Speaker 4: of the best athletes in the world come to America

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Speaker 4: to train, as well as the American athletes, and that

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Speaker 4: system is provided for those sports. So those sports are

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Speaker 4: being underwritten by the revenues primarily from football, and so

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Speaker 4: if that money goes to the players, that money may

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Speaker 4: not be there for those other sports.

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Speaker 3: George, you've been on the other side of so long.

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Speaker 3: If you were to guess how long is this process

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Speaker 3: is going to take. When will settle back down.

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Speaker 4: I think it'll take three to five years to shake out.

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Speaker 4: I think if the industry does it, it'll be within

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Speaker 4: the next three years. If it's settled through the courts,

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Speaker 4: it will take a little longer, maybe five years, you guess.

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Speaker 1: The idea though also of just amateur sports in general,

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Speaker 1: and in addition to the actual collegiate itself, that whole

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Speaker 1: universe of Olympic athlete too, of course, have had their

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Speaker 1: own batwer and being able to get compensated for their

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Speaker 1: images and for their performance as well. Here have we

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Speaker 1: kind of moved to the stage in society now where

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Speaker 1: there really won't any be true amateur sports, at least

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Speaker 1: not at the elite level.

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Speaker 4: No, I think there will be, I mean an elite

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Speaker 4: golf for these other sports, I think it will remain

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Speaker 4: in imagery. But like the Olympics and the Olympics, there

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Speaker 4: was a time where you couldn't have pros in the Olympics,

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Speaker 4: they transition, they modernize, and people love the Olympic games.

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Speaker 2: I think that's my hope.

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Speaker 4: Is the same can happen for college athletics. But you're

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Speaker 4: going to might have to separate football and basketball from

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Speaker 4: the other sports because those issues are quite different than

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Speaker 4: the other sports.

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Speaker 2: It's all inevable. Is it good for the sport? In

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Speaker 2: your judgment? I think it will be.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've heard so much negativity about the transfer,

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Speaker 4: portal and player movement. Look, those games this weekend were fantastic,

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Speaker 4: so I think the game will stay true.

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Speaker 2: This is a choppy period. It's an evolution, hopefully not

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Speaker 2: a revolution.

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Speaker 1: David's afraid to ask you this question, but who's going

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Speaker 1: to win on Monday?

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Speaker 4: Look, I wouldn't sleep on the Washington Huskies because that

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Speaker 4: quarterback Michael Pennox is a great quarterback. But I think

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Speaker 4: you have to go at the Amazon Blue. They've done

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Speaker 4: an amazing job, Jim Harbaugh. They've done an incredible built

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Speaker 4: a program over ten years, three straight trips to the CFP.

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Speaker 4: I don't think you can go against amazing Blue.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can't add anything to that.

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Speaker 2: That's the final word, no question.

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Speaker 3: But really great to have you as George Pine and

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Speaker 3: Bruin Kapelly's a founder and CEO there