Speaker 1: The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to areas that were under
Speaker 1: Confederate control. It really didn't free the slaves anywhere where
Speaker 1: the United States at that point had any jurisdiction to
Speaker 1: free the slaves. So, you know, it is more of
Speaker 1: a diplomatic kind of psychological document. But Lincoln believed that
Speaker 1: if this was issued, as one historian years later commented
Speaker 1: that the slaves weren't going to read the fine print,
Speaker 1: and he believed that there would be massive runaways from
Speaker 1: these plantations in the South, that the word would get
Speaker 1: around in the enslaved communities, and that people would would
Speaker 1: bolt and head for the nearest Union army.
Speaker 2: This is the fourth pail of water that we've dipped
Speaker 2: out of the ocean of the Civil War. Meaning this
Speaker 2: is part four of our series. We've covered some ground
Speaker 2: and I've enjoyed every step, but it's time to learn
Speaker 2: about the Emancipation Proclamation and how it was a huge
Speaker 2: gamble for Lincoln but would be one of the most
Speaker 2: consequential war acts of the American Civil War. But how
Speaker 2: could this seemingly moral proclamation devastate the Confederates. We're about
Speaker 2: to find out together, And hey, guys, as my wife,
Speaker 2: Misty says, it's a Civil War summer on bear Grease,
Speaker 2: Join me as I explore things that I have never known.
Speaker 2: I really doubt that you're gonna want to miss this one.
Speaker 2: My name is Clay Knucom and this is the bear
Speaker 2: Grease podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search
Speaker 2: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the
Speaker 2: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land.
Speaker 2: Brought to you by to Covi's Boots. Boy boot Man,
Speaker 2: and I've been wearing to Covis for years. They're the
Speaker 2: most comfortable boot I've ever put on. Good boots for
Speaker 2: good times. Test test test Test Test, Yeah, Rolling, Man Rolling.
Speaker 2: I'm sitting across from one of my favorite historians, a
Speaker 2: brilliant man. He's published over ten books. His name is
Speaker 2: doctor Brooks Blevins. He works at Missouri State University. He's
Speaker 2: wearing T shirt and jeans, lace up leather work boots
Speaker 2: and a red ball cap. He's unpretentious. He told me
Speaker 2: he gets a haircut every six months, and he's come
Speaker 2: and do. But that's kind of beside the point. I
Speaker 2: pull out a giant book to try to impress him,
Speaker 2: and it works. He takes note I.
Speaker 1: Forgot how big that book was. That is a It
Speaker 1: is a biblical size.
Speaker 2: So when I got this book, battlecryt Freedom by James McPherson.
Speaker 2: When you see it on Amazon, you can't see it
Speaker 2: side angle, You just see the cover. And I envisioned
Speaker 2: it being like this little, like three hundred page, you know, book,
Speaker 2: just cuddly and nice. When I got it, it was
Speaker 2: not cuddly at all. Yeah, this is the book that
Speaker 2: you assigned your students back in the nineties.
Speaker 1: I did. I did, And I think that first time
Speaker 1: I taught a Civil War class, I signed that book.
Speaker 1: And then I probably came to the realization these people,
Speaker 1: they're probably not reading a thousand page book for this course. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was fresh out of grad school and gung
Speaker 1: ho and crazy, and.
Speaker 2: The audacity to assign a book to college students this
Speaker 2: big is exactly why Brooks is here. As a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, this book is just one of over sixty
Speaker 2: thousand books written on the American Civil War, and more
Speaker 2: pumped out each year. American interest in this topic seems endless,
Speaker 2: and I want to ask him the question that we
Speaker 2: started out this whole series discussing how do you feel
Speaker 2: like people, your students, but also just the general world.
Speaker 2: What are your comments on how people or why people
Speaker 2: are so interested in the Civil War?
Speaker 1: You know, growing growing up when I did in the South,
Speaker 1: I think it almost came with the territory of being
Speaker 1: a Southern kid. It just seemed like something you just
Speaker 1: kind of grew up interested in. And so I don't
Speaker 1: remember ever not being interested in the Civil War, but
Speaker 1: I think historians probably spent a lot of time trying
Speaker 1: to explain why there's so much interest, especially in the South,
Speaker 1: the losers who had historically been more interested in the
Speaker 1: Civil War than the winners. I guess. You know, my dad,
Speaker 1: who was an old coach, spent most of his career
Speaker 1: as a basketball coach and sometimes baseball coach, would always
Speaker 1: say he he dwelt a lot more on the losses
Speaker 1: than he did on the winds. And maybe maybe there's
Speaker 1: some kind of psychology there where the South just couldn't
Speaker 1: get over it. We just hung up on getting beat
Speaker 1: with all this mythology about being the superior fighters and
Speaker 1: tougher and meaner and you know, better outdoorsmen, better better horsemen,
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. Than the Yankees were
Speaker 1: and then and then they still get beat So maybe
Speaker 1: part of it is just you know, not being able
Speaker 1: to get over it like that. But but I think
Speaker 1: in general, for Americans, it's one of the few gigantic
Speaker 1: historic moments that's it's really our moment. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of foreign intrigue in this, you know,
Speaker 1: with England and France and trying that the Confederacy trying
Speaker 1: to get allies on their side, but for the most part,
Speaker 1: it's our story. It's not only our story, but it's
Speaker 1: kind of the the folkrum of all of American history.
Speaker 1: If you go to high school or go to college
Speaker 1: today and you take American history classes, it's either up
Speaker 1: through the Civil War or it's after the Civil War.
Speaker 1: You know, that's still the dividing line. It was when
Speaker 1: I was in school a long time ago, and it
Speaker 1: still is.
Speaker 2: I hadn't really thought about it like that part, but
Speaker 2: you're right, that's the way you think about American history
Speaker 2: as like, yeah, that's free Civil War. I mean almost
Speaker 2: like the way we divide time with Christ's birth, which
Speaker 2: is pretty peculiar really when you write it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so much of the world doesn't see history
Speaker 1: and time that way, just as you know the rest
Speaker 1: of the world certainly doesn't divide the period you know,
Speaker 1: from the sixteen hundreds to the twenty first century as
Speaker 1: up through eighteen sixty five, and then after eighteen sixty five,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that's our So that's our peculiar
Speaker 1: little thing, and that's and I think that's part of
Speaker 1: the reason it still fascinates us. It is really the
Speaker 1: defining moment in American history.
Speaker 2: This is part four of our series. And ashamedly, but
Speaker 2: also excitedly, I'll admit we're probably halfway through the Civil War,
Speaker 2: but it just all seems so consequential, so relevant. But
Speaker 2: in September of eighteen sixty two, something terrible happened, more
Speaker 2: terrible than everything that had happened before. And it all
Speaker 2: starts when Robert E. Lee marches his army into Maryland,
Speaker 2: into Union territory. His hopes are a victory on enemy
Speaker 2: soil would gain international tension and potentially help from Europe.
Speaker 2: If his rebels could win a battle in the north,
Speaker 2: it would indicate strength. And he even thought he might
Speaker 2: take Washington, d c or at least make Lincoln buckle
Speaker 2: and offer peace terms. It was bold. Here is our
Speaker 2: old buddy j D. Hewittt of the History Underground YouTube channel,
Speaker 2: introducing us to the name of this battle that's going
Speaker 2: to get us moving.
Speaker 3: He probably can't talk about the major battles of the
Speaker 3: Civil War without talking about the Battle of Antietam, single
Speaker 3: bloodiest day in American history. Even to this day, it
Speaker 3: is the single bloodiest day September seventeenth, of eighteen sixty two.
Speaker 2: There will be almost twenty three thousand casualties in this
Speaker 2: single day. That includes the dead, wounded, missing. Thirty six
Speaker 2: hundred will actually die. Antietam, beyond its bloodshed, will be
Speaker 2: the catalyst for something historic, But that's coming. So before
Speaker 2: we get into the battle, I've just got a more
Speaker 2: relevant question that's going to help us understand Antietam. And
Speaker 2: it's a question for JD that just demands attention, and
Speaker 2: it's about the style of fighting in the Civil War
Speaker 2: that caused so much death. I think everybody has watched
Speaker 2: a Civil War movie or a scene a Civil War
Speaker 2: painting and we have a sense of the kind of
Speaker 2: fighting that they were doing that was causing this number
Speaker 2: of casualties. Yeah, I mean it was it was like
Speaker 2: an old school style of fighting, typically where they're like
Speaker 2: lining up in formation and just like marching towards each
Speaker 2: other shooting. Is that about right? I mean, I realize
Speaker 2: that's simplistic, yeah, yeah, but essentially yeah.
Speaker 4: And people look at that and they're like, well, that
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: How where I'm going with this? That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: Why would they do that? Okay?
Speaker 3: So what they are doing when they are lining up
Speaker 3: in formation, as you were taking all of your men,
Speaker 3: you're firing in unison, and you're sending a wall of
Speaker 3: lead over to the other side. So people say, well,
Speaker 3: why didn't they just kind of separate and fight like
Speaker 3: they would in modern times like in World War two
Speaker 3: in the Civil War with.
Speaker 4: The equipment that they had.
Speaker 3: Well, then what you do is like you have the
Speaker 3: small pocket of guys over here on the left, where
Speaker 3: you're just going to have your entire formation aim there
Speaker 3: and you're going to take them out, okay, and then
Speaker 3: you're going to go take out the smaller one, and
Speaker 3: you know, so on and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3: So the tactics that they are using are the best
Speaker 3: that they have with the technology and with the knowledge
Speaker 3: that they have at the time. There are people who
Speaker 3: are going to one hundred and fifty years from now
Speaker 3: look back on us and say, wow, I cannot believe
Speaker 3: that they fought the way that they did in Iraq
Speaker 3: and Afghanistan.
Speaker 4: That is completely crazy. The tactics will have advanced so far.
Speaker 2: Are if you lined up two hundred yards from a
Speaker 2: thousand soldiers that had one shot muskets, that kind of
Speaker 2: artillery they were using, and you were just like, all right, ready, go,
Speaker 2: I mean, is that not just a suicide mission? I mean,
Speaker 2: are you just not for like, for sure gonna die?
Speaker 2: That's what I just see. And when you hear the
Speaker 2: number of casualties, the number of people that died, it
Speaker 2: just feels like and maybe there was just no other option,
Speaker 2: maybe just war during those times, it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're supposed to die.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know what I know. It's how it
Speaker 4: feels like.
Speaker 3: But this, this war is is going to put an
Speaker 3: end to that because because now with these you know,
Speaker 3: we have rifles, you have you know, the mini ball
Speaker 3: and things like that. There are all kinds of advances
Speaker 3: in military technology where you know, in the Revolutionary War,
Speaker 3: you were shooting a round ball and maybe you hit
Speaker 3: your target, and maybe you don't, you know, depending on
Speaker 3: what the range is. So the best way to fight
Speaker 3: is to get your whole regiment or your whole company
Speaker 3: or whatever in a line of battle and then all
Speaker 3: fire in unison.
Speaker 2: But the other guys are doing the same thing.
Speaker 4: They're doing the exact same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just no wonder so many people
Speaker 2: got killed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean human casualty. It just seems like it wasn't. I
Speaker 2: realized human casualty and death at any point in human
Speaker 2: history would have been hard for people to deal with.
Speaker 2: But it's hard not to think that human life during
Speaker 2: those times was just thought about differently. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: what was it. I mean, you just went to war
Speaker 2: to die. It just feels like it's just like, well,
Speaker 2: Jimmy's going war, he will die.
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody goes in expecting to die or
Speaker 3: wanting to die. I think that they have a value.
Speaker 3: It's not like they view human life as as cheap.
Speaker 3: They probably would have been more familiar with death than
Speaker 3: what we are. If you want to know what the
Speaker 3: big killer is in the Civil Wars, disease, that's what's
Speaker 3: killing a bunch of guys.
Speaker 2: This was a deadly transition period in military technology. Both
Speaker 2: sides have been trained in Napoleonic military strategies. Commanders couldn't
Speaker 2: control scattered troops, no radios, cell phones, only human to
Speaker 2: human communication, and formally, firearms didn't have long ranges, so
Speaker 2: armies just stayed together. This was the first war fought
Speaker 2: with rifled muskets, which increased the effective range from basically
Speaker 2: eighty yards to over three hundred yards. As a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, jeff Davis Jefferson Davis, when he was Secretary
Speaker 2: of War for the United States in eighteen fifty five,
Speaker 2: converted the un United States military to the fifty eight
Speaker 2: caliber Springfield rifled musket. By eighteen sixty three, a seven
Speaker 2: shot spencer carbing was used by the Union. New technology
Speaker 2: with old tactics created terrible bloodshed. But this would also
Speaker 2: be the last major war fought on horseback at close range.
Speaker 2: In a bay of that fight, a horse is a
Speaker 2: powerful tool, but it's an easy and big target at
Speaker 2: three hundred yards. The rifle made the horse obsolete in
Speaker 2: the battlefield. But we got to get back to Antietam.
Speaker 2: Lincoln's Union army had been struggling in the East. He
Speaker 2: was continually being let down by his generals, and he
Speaker 2: was waiting on a Union victory, so he could pull
Speaker 2: out something that was burning a hole in his pocket,
Speaker 2: a document waiting to be signed, and proclaimed he had
Speaker 2: actually made a covenant with God. He said, if his
Speaker 2: armies drove the Confederates out of Maryland, he'd release the document,
Speaker 2: which would have more power than a rifled barrel. So
Speaker 2: hold that document in the back of your mind while
Speaker 2: JD and Doctor Blevins describe and teet them.
Speaker 3: In short, the Army of the Potomac under George McClellan,
Speaker 3: who is following Roberty Lee into Maryland. I remember Maryland
Speaker 3: is a slave state that remains loyal to the Union.
Speaker 3: Roberty Lee is taking the fight out of Virginia and
Speaker 3: taking it into the Northern States. So this is this
Speaker 3: is an invasion of the North.
Speaker 1: And so he marches his army up into Maryland. It's
Speaker 1: one of those weird things, kind of a one of
Speaker 1: those Hollywood moments in the Civil War where a Union
Speaker 1: soldier finds a bunch of cigars wrapped in this you know,
Speaker 1: wrapped in these papers, and he gets the looking at
Speaker 1: these papers and he realizes He's basically got Robert E.
Speaker 1: Lee's plans for his expedition. That some you know, some
Speaker 1: officer had wrapped up his cigars in and lost it
Speaker 1: somehow on the trip up up through there.
Speaker 4: And one of the Union guys picks it up.
Speaker 3: It makes its way up to McClellan and and he says,
Speaker 3: with this right here, I will finally have what I
Speaker 3: need to to whip Bobby Lee.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He those make it back to headquarters. George McClellan. General,
Speaker 1: George McClellan is the He's the commander of the army,
Speaker 1: of the Potomauth Union Army. This very stately looking Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you if you drew up
Speaker 1: what a general should look like, it would look like
Speaker 1: George McClellan. This big, tall, broad shouldered, you know, deep
Speaker 1: chested guy with a stentorian voice and just you know,
Speaker 1: always impeccably dressed and all that stuff. But he gets
Speaker 1: the orders and turns out George McClellan may look the
Speaker 1: part of a great general, but he didn't play the
Speaker 1: part of a great general. And even with Robert E.
Speaker 1: Lee's plans, he still fights. They fight this major battle,
Speaker 1: a one day battle, September seventeenth, and by all rights,
Speaker 1: the Union army should have just wiped up on the
Speaker 1: Confederates and sent them scurrying back to Virginia right away.
Speaker 1: But because of McClellan's hesitance, and he was just kind
Speaker 1: of a naturally slow moving conservative guy, he always thought
Speaker 1: he's outnumbered, even when he had twice as many troops
Speaker 1: as the Confederates. Lincoln is terribly upset and basically gets
Speaker 1: rid of McClellan, you know, after that battle, sends him
Speaker 1: off to do other things, and you know, it gets
Speaker 1: him away from the Army of the Potomac. But Lincoln decides,
Speaker 1: you know, this may be as good as it gets.
Speaker 1: At least at the end of that battle, Robert E.
Speaker 1: Lee turned around and went back to Virginia. We can
Speaker 1: claim it as kind of a victory. And so five
Speaker 1: days after the Battle of Antietam, Lincoln issues the preliminary
Speaker 1: Emancipation Proclamation.
Speaker 3: So Emancipation Proclamation, of course, this is the proclamation that
Speaker 3: frees all of the slaves in the Confederate States. So
Speaker 3: slavery is still going to exist in Missouri, Kentucky, and
Speaker 3: in Delaware and Maryland. But it's introduced as a war measure.
Speaker 3: Prior to the Battle of Antietam, he had it ready
Speaker 3: to go, had it drafted. But if he just issues it,
Speaker 3: it looks like a move out of desperation. So he's
Speaker 3: waiting for a Union victory in order to issue this,
Speaker 3: and then after he announces that all of the slaves
Speaker 3: in the South are going to be freed, it takes
Speaker 3: effect in January of eighteen sixty three. That's the bloodiest
Speaker 3: day in American history.
Speaker 1: And it's really from that moment that Lincoln and the
Speaker 1: North wins. The diplomatic battle there.
Speaker 2: Antietam was a tactical draw, but functionally a strategic Union
Speaker 2: victory and good enough for the President to finalize his
Speaker 2: deal with God and issue the Emancipation Proclamation, which was
Speaker 2: a written executive order by Abraham Lincoln. When he signed it,
Speaker 2: he said, I never in my life felt more certain
Speaker 2: that I was doing right than I do in signing
Speaker 2: this paper. If my name ever goes into history, it
Speaker 2: will be for this act, and my whole soul is
Speaker 2: in it. I think it's a unique and important document
Speaker 2: worth understanding. As a matter of fact, I'd like to
Speaker 2: read it. This is the transcript of that order that
Speaker 2: held Lincoln's soul on the first day of January, in
Speaker 2: the year of Our Lord one thousand, eight hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty three. All persons held as slaves within any state
Speaker 2: or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall
Speaker 2: then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then,
Speaker 2: thenceforth and forever free. And the Executive Government of the
Speaker 2: United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will
Speaker 2: recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will
Speaker 2: do no act or acts to repress such persons or
Speaker 2: any of them, in any efforts they make for their
Speaker 2: actual freedom. So I'm stepping out of the proclamation. And
Speaker 2: there is a section where it talks about where this
Speaker 2: has jurisdiction and a bunch of eighteen hundreds legal jargon.
Speaker 2: I'll spare you, but it's all the rebel seceded states.
Speaker 2: And by virtue of the power and for the purpose aforesaid,
Speaker 2: I do order and declare that all persons held as
Speaker 2: slaves within said designated states in parts of states, are,
Speaker 2: and henceforth shall be free, And that the Executive Government
Speaker 2: of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof,
Speaker 2: will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons. And
Speaker 2: I hereby enjoin upon the people so declared to be free,
Speaker 2: to abstain from all violence, unless in necessary self defense.
Speaker 2: And I recommend to them that, in all cases, when allowed,
Speaker 2: they labor faithfully for reasonable wages. And I further declare
Speaker 2: and make known that such persons of suitable condition will
Speaker 2: be received into the armed Service of the United States,
Speaker 2: to garrison forts, positions, stations, and other places, and to
Speaker 2: man vessels of all sorts and said service. And upon
Speaker 2: this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice
Speaker 2: warranted by the Constitution, upon military necessity, I invoke the
Speaker 2: considerate judgment of mankind and the gracious favor of Almighty
Speaker 2: God and witness, whereof I have hereunto set my hand,
Speaker 2: and caused the Seal of the United States to be
Speaker 2: affixed done at the City of Washington, the first day
Speaker 2: of January and the year of our Lord one thousand,
Speaker 2: eight hundred and sixty three, and of the Independence of
Speaker 2: the United States of America the eighty seventh, signed Abraham Lincoln,
Speaker 2: end of proclamation. Can you imagine what this meant if
Speaker 2: you were an enslaved person, your family had been in
Speaker 2: bondage for generations so long that you didn't know when
Speaker 2: the last free person in your family was alive, and
Speaker 2: suddenly you're legally free, but the powers over you don't
Speaker 2: recognize that proclamation's authority. I'd like to have been a
Speaker 2: fly on the wall to listen to the conversations that
Speaker 2: these people had together. We've got to learn why this
Speaker 2: was such a slick and powerful move by Abe Lincoln
Speaker 2: when I think about the Civil War, And again, this
Speaker 2: is just my exploration. This whole series is just my
Speaker 2: exploration into questions that I have in places of interest,
Speaker 2: Like if there was a timeline on that timeline would
Speaker 2: be the Emancipation Proclamation, and I would have known that
Speaker 2: proclamation to, you know, declare that all the.
Speaker 5: Slaves were free.
Speaker 2: That's about the extent of what I would have known
Speaker 2: it as, and I would have I would have viewed
Speaker 2: it as this really moral proclamation that just came from
Speaker 2: this position of this is this is an unjust institution
Speaker 2: that's inhumane and shouldn't exist on planet Earth. And you know,
Speaker 2: that's what this whole war is about. This is what
Speaker 2: I would have thought before. The more as I've learned
Speaker 2: about it is way more complex than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say the first thing is you hit
Speaker 1: the nail on the head. The Emancipation Proclamation is it's
Speaker 1: a complex story. It's a pretty straightforward document, but the
Speaker 1: story behind it is full of nuance, and it is
Speaker 1: certainly not as simple as your armchair history of the
Speaker 1: United States would suggest. We know Lincoln from the time
Speaker 1: he first became president had announced that I have no
Speaker 1: plans to involve the government with slavery where it currently exists.
Speaker 1: He was from that free soil tradition where the big
Speaker 1: thing was we don't want it to expand anymore. We
Speaker 1: just wanted to keep it kind of contained where it is.
Speaker 1: But he announced that. Of course, the reason he's announcing
Speaker 1: that is because by the time he's inaugurated, seven states
Speaker 1: have already seceded and formed the Confederacy, and he's trying
Speaker 1: to keep the other slave states from seceding. So he
Speaker 1: makes that announcement. I think he meant it. In eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty one. Lincoln was a pretty moderate guy. As the
Speaker 1: war went on, I do think he drifted more toward
Speaker 1: the abolitionist side, but he never became a full out abolitionist.
Speaker 1: Certainly not a kind of radical abolitionist. Nobody was exactly
Speaker 1: like John Brown, but I do think he drifted more
Speaker 1: toward a position where he became more and more in
Speaker 1: favor of abolishing slavery as something that should be done
Speaker 1: and should be done right now. But there were other
Speaker 1: reasons for that. There were military reasons for that, there
Speaker 1: were diplomatic reasons for that.
Speaker 2: This proclamation seems like a no brainer, something so clear
Speaker 2: that anyone in power would have done it. But that's
Speaker 2: just not so. It was a huge gamble. The timing
Speaker 2: was critical, and it could have backfired. I'd like to
Speaker 2: crack open this giant book that impressed Brooks and read
Speaker 2: a passage from McPherson. The proclamation would apply only to
Speaker 2: states in rebellion on January first. This produced some confusion,
Speaker 2: because the edict thus appeared to liberate only those slaves
Speaker 2: beyond union authority, while retaining in bondage all those within
Speaker 2: the government's reach. A few disappointed radicals and abolitionists looked
Speaker 2: on it in this way, where he has no power,
Speaker 2: mister Lincoln will set the negroes free. Where he retains power,
Speaker 2: he will consider them as slaves, declared the London Times.
Speaker 2: This is more like a chinaman beating his two swords
Speaker 2: together to frighten his enemy, than like an earnest man
Speaker 2: pressing forward his cause. But such remarks missed the point
Speaker 2: and misunderstood the president's prerogatives under the Constitution. Lincoln acted
Speaker 2: under his war powers to seize enemy resources. He had
Speaker 2: no constitutional power power to act against slavery in areas
Speaker 2: loyal to the United States. The proclamation would turn Union
Speaker 2: forces into armies of liberation on January first, if they
Speaker 2: could win the war, and it also invited the slaves
Speaker 2: to help them win it. Most anti slavery Americans in
Speaker 2: Britain recognized this. We shout for joy that we live
Speaker 2: to record this righteous decree, wrote Frederick Douglass, while William
Speaker 2: Lloyd Garrison considered it an act of immense historic consequence.
Speaker 2: A British abolitionist pronounced September twenty second a memorable day
Speaker 2: in the annals of the great struggle for the freedom
Speaker 2: of an oppressed and despised race. A radical London newspaper
Speaker 2: believed it a gigantic stride in the paths of Christian
Speaker 2: and civilized progress. Lincoln's own off the record analysis showed
Speaker 2: how much his conception of the war had changed since
Speaker 2: ten months earlier, when he had depreciated a remorseless revolutionary struggle.
Speaker 2: After January one, Lincoln told an official of the Interior Department, quote,
Speaker 2: the character of the war will be changed. It will
Speaker 2: be one of subjugation. The old South is to be
Speaker 2: destroyed and replaced by new propositions and ideas. This is
Speaker 2: a powerful statement by Lincoln. He knew it would shift
Speaker 2: the war, knowing that the old South would now have
Speaker 2: to be destroyed and rebuilt, not negotiated with. This changes
Speaker 2: everything and would change everything for the South even to
Speaker 2: this day. McPherson then writes about the Southern response to
Speaker 2: the emancipation quote, the Southern response to the emancipation and
Speaker 2: the enlistment of black troops was ferocious. Upon learning the
Speaker 2: preliminary emancipation proclamation, General Beauregard called for execution of abolition
Speaker 2: prisoners after January first, Jefferson Davis's message to Congress on
Speaker 2: January twelfth, eighteen sixty three, pronounced the emancipation Proclamation the
Speaker 2: most excreeable measure in the history of guilty man. Davis
Speaker 2: promised to turn overcaptured Union officers to state governments for
Speaker 2: punishment as criminals engaged in inciting civil insurrection. The punishment
Speaker 2: for this crime, of course, was death. End of quote.
Speaker 2: The South didn't take to this proclamation very well, but
Speaker 2: we've got to learn now why Lincoln released it at
Speaker 2: this time and what it did. It's got rows of
Speaker 2: teeth like an alligator. And here's doctor Brooks Blevins that's
Speaker 2: going to tell us what this proclamation actually did the Confederacy.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the things about the Civil War
Speaker 1: that we don't talk about all that much, but from
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Civil War, the Confederates had sent
Speaker 1: basically their diplomats to Europe to try to get European
Speaker 1: countries involved on their side as allies. Anybody who grew
Speaker 1: up in the United States at that time, whether it
Speaker 1: was North or South, knew that the American Revolution probably
Speaker 1: would not have ended the way it did, probably would
Speaker 1: not have been successful for the rebels had it not
Speaker 1: been for the intervention of France on the side of
Speaker 1: the United States and helping this infant country overcome their
Speaker 1: traditional enemy England and get their independence. And so the
Speaker 1: Confederates were thinking the same thing, we need, we need
Speaker 1: some kind of ally to help us in our fight
Speaker 1: for independence. And the one thing that the Confederacy had
Speaker 1: sort of the one bargaining chip, and it was a
Speaker 1: big bargaining chip, was cotton. It's what we call King
Speaker 1: Cotton diplomacy. That's what it was, what historians call the
Speaker 1: confederates approach to diplomatic relations with France and England, especially
Speaker 1: King Cotton diplomacy. So they go over there and they're
Speaker 1: trying to convince the British and the French to get
Speaker 1: on our side. You know, we we've got the cotton,
Speaker 1: especially England. The England is the great mill country of
Speaker 1: the world, you know, you know, making cloth and all
Speaker 1: kinds of clothing and all all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: They've got. They've got all these cotton mills everywhere.
Speaker 2: And kind of be like America's relationship to the Middle
Speaker 2: East with oil in a way.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a cotton was a commodity that valuable,
Speaker 2: right right.
Speaker 1: And in this story, Great Britain would be US today, yes,
Speaker 1: and and South and the South would be the Middle East,
Speaker 1: you know that because they've got the raw material that
Speaker 1: that we need. And so so that was their that
Speaker 1: was their bargaining chip, and it was a it was
Speaker 1: a pretty solid thing. The British had been developing a
Speaker 1: cotton industry or a cotton growing culture in India by
Speaker 1: this time, and another one of their colonies, and one
Speaker 1: of their Asian colonies, and so that took a little
Speaker 1: bit of the you know, the staying away from King
Speaker 1: Cotton diplomacy and made the British a little more hesitant
Speaker 1: to jump into this. And Great Britain had already outlawed slavery,
Speaker 1: which is again when the when the war starts, Lincoln himself,
Speaker 1: you know, was saying, this is not a war about slavery,
Speaker 1: it's a war about restoring the Union. But as you've
Speaker 1: already talked about in your earlier episodes, slavery was the
Speaker 1: it was at the center of everything in the story.
Speaker 1: It was it was the big it was the big
Speaker 1: thing that that fueled.
Speaker 2: Every win into Europe.
Speaker 5: Outlawed slavery.
Speaker 1: I think it was the early eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Okay, fifties, sixty seventy years before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It had been you know, for a
Speaker 1: couple of generations. It had been outlawed, and I can't
Speaker 1: remember the exact.
Speaker 2: Year slavery was made a legal and Great Britain in
Speaker 2: seventeen seventy two, but it was legal in English colonies
Speaker 2: until eighteen thirty four, when it was entirely abolished in
Speaker 2: all places with English authority. And to go back even
Speaker 2: further to how it all started, the Age of European
Speaker 2: exploration in the fourteen hundreds found some of the first
Speaker 2: Europeans on the coast of West Africa, where they found
Speaker 2: the slave trade had been in full swing for centuries,
Speaker 2: with African kingdoms selling Africans to the Middle East. Europe
Speaker 2: jumped into the market and exported slaves to Europe and
Speaker 2: then later to North America. Let's get back to England's
Speaker 2: involvement with the South and the Civil.
Speaker 1: War, and so you know that's part of this too.
Speaker 1: England actually does clandestinely support the Confederacy a little bit.
Speaker 1: They built some ships over there that the Confederates quote
Speaker 1: unquote steel and then use as their own. And England
Speaker 1: really helped build a Confederate navy in this and they
Speaker 1: did it all off the books, behind the scenes. Napoleon
Speaker 1: the Third, who was the Emperor of France at the time,
Speaker 1: told the Confederate diplomats, if you can get Great Britain
Speaker 1: to sign off on this, and to come in on
Speaker 1: your side. We'll join you too. You know, he kind
Speaker 1: of wanted to jump in on the side of the Confederacy,
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to do it if Great Britain
Speaker 1: wasn't going to do it. So all this is going on,
Speaker 1: still going on in eighteen sixty two, and of course
Speaker 1: Lincoln knows all this. The war in late eighteen sixty
Speaker 1: two is not going well for the Union side. Robert E.
Speaker 1: Lee has just you know, by the late summer of
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, Robert E. Lee has now taken over
Speaker 1: the Army of Northern Virginia, the big you know, the
Speaker 1: big main army in the East for the Confederacy, and
Speaker 1: he turns out to be a really good general, better
Speaker 1: than anybody that Lincoln has at that point, running the
Speaker 1: Army of the Potomac, the big Army facing each other,
Speaker 1: you know, like the old Yankees and Dodgers, you know,
Speaker 1: the two superpowers you know, in the war, kind of
Speaker 1: kind of fighting each other day after day. And so
Speaker 1: all of this is going on in the background, and
Speaker 1: during the late summerfall, Lincoln starts drafting this this proclamation,
Speaker 1: and it's it's part diplomatic document. He knows once this
Speaker 1: thing is issued, if it has any force behind it,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't look like it's just too desperate and
Speaker 1: it's a last ditch attempt by the Union to do something,
Speaker 1: then that's going to keep England and France out of
Speaker 1: the war. On the Confederate side, explain that to me.
Speaker 2: Why would the emancipation Proclamation keep those guys out of
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the other part of this. The emancipation proclamations,
Speaker 1: as Lincoln envisioned, it would make the war about slavery.
Speaker 1: It would make the war a war to end slavery.
Speaker 1: From the Union side, we know the war was primarily
Speaker 1: caused by slavery.
Speaker 2: But he'd been tiptoeing around that, trying not to make
Speaker 2: it about that.
Speaker 1: Right, it was caused by slavery, but not about slavery.
Speaker 2: So if he made it about slavery, these guys that
Speaker 2: had already outlawed it couldn't get behind it.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna get Yeah, France and England, they're not
Speaker 1: going to touch the American Civil War with a pole
Speaker 1: the length of the Atlantic Ocean between North America and Europe.
Speaker 1: If if it's about slavery.
Speaker 2: Why would that be simply moral concern.
Speaker 1: It would be that and and it would be a
Speaker 1: moral concern and just an image thing. I think by
Speaker 1: this time Europeans would have seen themselves as you know,
Speaker 1: we've we've gone beyond.
Speaker 2: This, elevated beyond right, we're institution of slavery.
Speaker 1: We're not, We're not practicing this barbaric system anymore. We're
Speaker 1: above that, and we don't want to get back down
Speaker 1: in the mud.
Speaker 2: But before, when they knew that it really was about
Speaker 2: slavery and it was about cotton which was being fueled
Speaker 2: by slavery, it was still okay to kind of be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: probably help you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, as long as it's as long as it's
Speaker 1: a war to restore the union and we've got then,
Speaker 1: then that gives us at least a little bit of
Speaker 1: cover to get involved with this, even if it's a
Speaker 1: clandestine type involvement behind the scenes. But once you get
Speaker 1: that document out into the public where it's a war
Speaker 1: about slavery.
Speaker 2: So that's point number one, is Lincoln knew that it
Speaker 2: would keep Europe out of the war.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's very much a diplomatic weapon that was
Speaker 1: that was effective I mean it, it did its job,
Speaker 1: and I think Lincoln saw a couple other uses in that.
Speaker 1: One was that even though as we've already talked about,
Speaker 1: the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to areas that were under
Speaker 1: Confederate control, So it didn't free the border states, the
Speaker 1: slaves in Kentucky and Maryland, in Missouri or anything like that.
Speaker 1: It was just it really didn't free the slaves anywhere
Speaker 1: where the United States at that point had any jurisdiction
Speaker 1: to free the slaves. So you know, it's it is
Speaker 1: more of a of a diplomatic, kind of psychological document.
Speaker 1: But Lincoln believed that if this was issued that as
Speaker 1: one historian years later commented, that the slaves weren't going
Speaker 1: to read the fine print, and he believed that there
Speaker 1: would be massive runaways from these plantations in the South,
Speaker 1: that the war would get around in the in the
Speaker 1: enslaved communities, and that people would would bolt and head
Speaker 1: for the nearest Union army. And a lot of people
Speaker 1: did that. You know, there were a lot of enslaved
Speaker 1: people who who did do that. Of course, a lot
Speaker 1: of them lived so far, so deep in the South,
Speaker 1: so far away from a Union army that that wasn't
Speaker 1: going to happen that, you know, it just wasn't a
Speaker 1: reasonable thing to expect. So so that was part of
Speaker 1: it too. It was this that not only was a
Speaker 1: sort of psychological warfare with the South, but it also
Speaker 1: took away a lot of the South's labor force. If
Speaker 1: you could get enough of these enslaved people to run
Speaker 1: off from their plantations or the mines or the the
Speaker 1: mills where they where they worked, you know, there you go.
Speaker 1: You're you're you're taking a punch at the South by
Speaker 1: by affecting the labor supply behind the scenes. That's helping
Speaker 1: that helping the home front keep churning. And then I
Speaker 1: think the last thing, going back to that morality question,
Speaker 1: Lincoln realized that by this point, by let's say, by September,
Speaker 1: you know, he issues the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation in September
Speaker 1: of sixty two, and by this point the war had
Speaker 1: been going on for almost a year and a half.
Speaker 1: And as you talked about in an earlier episode, when
Speaker 1: this thing starts, they're expecting, you know, a battle or two,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to declare a winter and go
Speaker 1: on about our lives. So you're a year and a
Speaker 1: half into a war that a lot of people in
Speaker 1: the North didn't want to be involved with, and he's
Speaker 1: looking for something to give the North a rallying point,
Speaker 1: and more importantly, to give the North kind of a
Speaker 1: moral point, a moral ground to stand one. To make
Speaker 1: the war about something that is more biblical, it's more
Speaker 1: more meaningful than just you know, we need to get
Speaker 1: these eleven southern states back in the United States, and
Speaker 1: making it a war about slavery is a thing to
Speaker 1: do that. So you've got it's diplomatic, it's psychological, it's economic,
Speaker 1: trying to chip away at the South, so labor force,
Speaker 1: it's all of those things rolled into one document. And
Speaker 1: it's setting there in his desk in September of eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty two, and he's just waiting for the right time
Speaker 1: to issue. It's really what he's waiting on is for
Speaker 1: one of his armies to actually win a battle, which
Speaker 1: was no easy task. I mean, if you read, if
Speaker 1: you read about the Civil War, you watch pretty much
Speaker 1: any Civil War documentary on TV, you know that in
Speaker 1: the early part of the war, almost the first three
Speaker 1: years of the war, Lincoln spent way more of his
Speaker 1: time than he wanted to just trying to find the
Speaker 1: right general who's gonna especially the right general for the
Speaker 1: Army of the Potomac, the big one that's protecting Washington,
Speaker 1: d c. And trying to put down Robert E. Lee's
Speaker 1: Army of Northern Virginia. And so he goes through this
Speaker 1: long string. It's kind of like when I was a
Speaker 1: kid and you had George Steinbrender who owned the Yankees,
Speaker 1: and he's always firing his managers. You know, every year
Speaker 1: he's basically firing a manager, trying to get the guy.
Speaker 1: They win a World Series, than they lose the next year,
Speaker 1: he fires him, and he's always trying to get the
Speaker 1: right guy. Steinbrender never did Lincoln eventually would a guy
Speaker 1: named us Grant.
Speaker 2: A guy named us Grant more to come on him
Speaker 2: a lot more. Actually. So we've established that the Emancipation
Speaker 2: Proclamation by Lincoln at this strategic time kept Europe out
Speaker 2: of the war. But a second point was they needed
Speaker 2: soldiers in the Union army. It seems like it took
Speaker 2: some time and it was kind of politically hazardous the
Speaker 2: idea that blacks would fight for the Union, But ultimately
Speaker 2: that's what would happen is that the Emancipation Proclamation would
Speaker 2: free the slaves that were in the seceded States. And
Speaker 2: I've heard a statistic that like one in four slaves
Speaker 2: would have left an escape to the North, and some
Speaker 2: portion of them joined the Union, And I've heard numbers
Speaker 2: between one hundred and thirty thousand, but also heard as
Speaker 2: many as two hundred thousand. So this was a war.
Speaker 1: Effort, right, Yeah. Yeah, It's only after the Emancipation Proclamation
Speaker 1: that the Union Army starts to enlist black troops, and.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of opposition to that, even though.
Speaker 1: Yeah nor yeah, yeah, there would have been there, there
Speaker 1: would have. Yeah, you have to remember that even after
Speaker 1: this becomes a war about slavery and not just a
Speaker 1: war caused by slavery, the philosophies and the opinions of
Speaker 1: the vast majority of white people in the North would
Speaker 1: have been what we would today consider racist. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not like they all all of a sudden believed
Speaker 1: in black equal right. I mean, you could you could
Speaker 1: be against slavery and still not think that that black
Speaker 1: people were your equal right. There were a lot of
Speaker 1: people who believe that, so so there would have there
Speaker 1: would have been a lot of opposition to arming black troops,
Speaker 1: even even in the North. You know, one of the arguments,
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, if you wanted to be crass
Speaker 1: about it, one of the arguments that you could use is, well,
Speaker 1: it's few of your white sons who have to put
Speaker 1: on uniforms, you know, if we if we arm black people,
Speaker 1: and who would have more reason to want to go
Speaker 1: kill Confederates than former enslaved people. But yeah, that that
Speaker 1: becomes a whole new element of the war in eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty three.
Speaker 2: And there's as I read this book, there's quote after
Speaker 2: quote of people in the North that are upset that
Speaker 2: the war has.
Speaker 5: Now become about slavery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's so many quotes of people just saying
Speaker 2: wild things about, you know, we don't want our sons
Speaker 2: to die over the freedom of these people. I mean
Speaker 2: stuff that like from from the armchair of an American,
Speaker 2: the motivation of the North was just purely this moral
Speaker 2: compass that was not had anywhere else, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: you see that that's not true. And there were lots
Speaker 2: of people that were like, hey, we didn't sign up
Speaker 2: to make, you know, to lose our lives to free
Speaker 2: the slaves, which is so interesting.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you you know, you discussed that with
Speaker 1: with JD. I think the you know, it's a whole
Speaker 1: different thing. Why why war starts and why young men
Speaker 1: go to fight. I mean, you know, those aren't those
Speaker 1: don't have to be the same thing. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, how many young Americans enlisted in the military
Speaker 1: after nine to eleven going over there thinking we're protecting
Speaker 1: our oil supplies, you know, I mean, that's what That's
Speaker 1: not what they were doing. I mean, that's that's why
Speaker 1: the United States is messing around in Middle East all
Speaker 1: the time. It's about oil, but it's not. It's not
Speaker 1: necessarily why young men and women sign up to the
Speaker 1: Marines and the Navy and the Army and the Air
Speaker 1: Force to go protect the oil. I mean, they're thinking,
Speaker 1: they're patriotic, they're wanting to represent their country in different
Speaker 1: things in the same way in the Civil War, you know,
Speaker 1: I would say a pretty small percentage of the Northern
Speaker 1: troops enlisted in eighteen sixty one and sixty two and
Speaker 1: went off to war thinking they were they were going
Speaker 1: to end slavery. That's you know, that that wasn't there.
Speaker 1: That wasn't their motivation. And after Lincoln issues the Emancipation Proclamation,
Speaker 1: you have a growing body of discontented people in the
Speaker 1: Northern States who are dissatisfied with the route the war
Speaker 1: is taking. The most radical of those, you know, eventually
Speaker 1: they call them copperheads, and the copperheads are sometimes are
Speaker 1: working behind the scenes to kind of undercut union efforts
Speaker 1: and things like that. But there are plenty of other
Speaker 1: people who weren't being that disloyal, who were just unhappy
Speaker 1: about what the war was becoming.
Speaker 2: You know, what I learned is just what a predicament
Speaker 2: Lincoln was in. I mean, it just seems so clear
Speaker 2: cut today. It's like, well, of course the Emancipation Proclamation
Speaker 2: was this like masterful political move and what's moral move
Speaker 2: that was so correct, But oh man, when he when
Speaker 2: he released that, it was a gamble. I think there's
Speaker 2: a quote in the book where it's like he says,
Speaker 2: if there's a place on this earth that's any more
Speaker 2: like Hell than where I'm at, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: know where it is. Like basically, he's just being hammered
Speaker 2: from every side. There's even political factions of Democrats in
Speaker 2: the North that are that are trying to come around.
Speaker 2: He made a statement about how basically the war's being
Speaker 2: fought in front of him, and he thinks the war
Speaker 2: might be one from behind him. Says something like that,
Speaker 2: bas like people in the North building up political clout
Speaker 2: and actually coming and beating him in the election that
Speaker 2: was coming up. I mean, he's got stuff coming at
Speaker 2: him from every side. People up, even in the North,
Speaker 2: are saying Lincoln's not fit to be president, he's crazy.
Speaker 1: Sure, Well, I mean, it's just kind of a given
Speaker 1: that in the first midterm election after a new president's elected,
Speaker 1: you know his party's going to lose seats. And Lincoln
Speaker 1: even in the Civil War, you know, Lincoln did the
Speaker 1: same thing in sixty two. He gets elected in eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty and sixty two, the Democrats gained back seats. And
Speaker 1: it's easy for us to look back because Lincoln is considered,
Speaker 1: if not the best president in US history. Certainly, he's
Speaker 1: literally on the Mount Rushmore of presidents, you know that.
Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of difficult for us to think
Speaker 1: back to the fact that almost half the people in
Speaker 1: the North disagreed with Lincoln enough to vote the Democratic ticket.
Speaker 2: History has rightfully turned Lincoln into a national icon, a hero.
Speaker 2: But at the time, it could have gone either way,
Speaker 2: and he would die so soon after the Civil War
Speaker 2: that he'd really never know his own impact. We're going
Speaker 2: to pick up with the Union Army at the end
Speaker 2: of eighteen sixty two, less than two years into the war.
Speaker 1: By the end of that year, you know, the story
Speaker 1: for the Union Army just continues to get worse because
Speaker 1: Lincoln replaces McClellan with a new commander, General Ambrose Burnside.
Speaker 1: Burnside is. He's most remembered for his facial.
Speaker 2: Hair with a last name like that, right, that's.
Speaker 1: Where the term sideburns comes from, is Ambrose Burnside. He
Speaker 1: had these If you look at pictures of him, he's
Speaker 1: got these huge just this huge mass of facial hair
Speaker 1: down down the side of his jaw. And I'm not
Speaker 1: sure why they didn't call him burn Sides, but they
Speaker 1: that hairstyle becomes sideburns for men. Yeah, and and but
Speaker 1: it was after Ambrose Bumber.
Speaker 2: Actually thought about how that's a peculiar name for right,
Speaker 2: the facial hair down on the cheat sideburns.
Speaker 1: It's an Ambrose Burnside and Burnside is. He was a
Speaker 1: rare commander in that he was self aware enough and
Speaker 1: humble enough to know that he didn't belong in charge
Speaker 1: of an army, and he didn't. He reluctantly took the
Speaker 1: job as head of Lincoln's Army of the Potomac, and
Speaker 1: straight away took the army into battle. They went down
Speaker 1: and attacked Robert E. Lee's army in the middle of
Speaker 1: December of eighteen sixty two at a time when back
Speaker 1: in those days you'd usually retreated to winter camp, didn't
Speaker 1: you didn't fight much in the wintertime. And he did
Speaker 1: it sort of because he knew Lincoln wanted him to
Speaker 1: go fight. Lincoln was looking for somebody who would fight
Speaker 1: and defeat Robert E. Lee. And it turned into just
Speaker 1: this terrible defeat for the Union army, just a really
Speaker 1: it's called the Battle of Fredericksburg. Even though Lincoln had,
Speaker 1: you know, it, wins the diplomatic battle with the preliminary
Speaker 1: Emancipation Proclamation, they still got a long ways to go
Speaker 1: to win the military battle against the South. And at
Speaker 1: the end of eighteen sixty two and January first, eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty three, when the proclamation takes effect, pretty much everybody's
Speaker 1: at a standoff. There to stand off in the West
Speaker 1: between the Confederacy and the Union. They're to stand off
Speaker 1: in you know, the Washington, d C. Virginia area, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot more war to go, but that proclamation
Speaker 1: has already set at least it's it's established the foundation
Speaker 1: for a way that the that the Union can can
Speaker 1: win this war.
Speaker 2: The war is a standoff, but there is one more
Speaker 2: thing that the Emancipation Proclamation helps usher into this battle,
Speaker 2: and it's of great consequence, partly because of who it
Speaker 2: ushers to the front of Lincoln's line of generals. With
Speaker 2: this proclamation, with this recruitment of black soldiers that are
Speaker 2: coming into the Union. There also seems to be during
Speaker 2: this time a new philosophy of war that comes in
Speaker 2: and it would be described as total war, which before
Speaker 2: was you know, when they first got into this conflict,
Speaker 2: they felt like it was just gonna be a couple
Speaker 2: of battles. We're just gonna kind of do a little
Speaker 2: fistfight and see who comes out on top and probably
Speaker 2: come to an agreement. And then by you know, sixty
Speaker 2: three or so, it's like this is wild, what's happening.
Speaker 2: And there's all these great quotes of the generals and
Speaker 2: Lincoln and them saying, hey, we're not trying to restore
Speaker 2: the Union, We're trying to basically stamp out this Southern
Speaker 2: you know, these states and rebuild the Union from scratch,
Speaker 2: which is a complete new aim of something that nobody
Speaker 2: could have foreseen in that total war. I mean, you
Speaker 2: see it all through the second half of the Civil
Speaker 2: War of just like civilians getting harmed, burning of private property,
Speaker 2: I mean, all this stuff. Can you tell me about that,
Speaker 2: like how the flip happened?
Speaker 1: Right now? I think probably the leader who best exemplified
Speaker 1: that total war concept that starts to take effect in
Speaker 1: the latter half of the Civil War is US Grant.
Speaker 2: By the assessment of many Ulysses s. Grant is the
Speaker 2: most underrated player in the American Civil War. He rose
Speaker 2: from the ashes of the common man to lead the
Speaker 2: US military, leading the way in this ideology of total
Speaker 2: war which wreaked havoc and punished the South. On the
Speaker 2: next episode, I'm planning a deep dive into this warrior's life.
Speaker 2: I'll be headed to the US Grant Library in Mississippi,
Speaker 2: of all places, to talk with the people that know
Speaker 2: him best. It is a bear grease Civil War summer
Speaker 2: and I'm answering the questions I've always had and I
Speaker 2: can't thank you enough for joining me. Please leave us
Speaker 2: a review and share our podcast with your friends and family.
Speaker 2: Brent Lake and I thank you so much for following along.
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the bear grease survey, which over two
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Speaker 2: he the wild places wild, that's where the bears live.