Speaker 1: M what's up. I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristin.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to episode fifteen, Dog Days of Summer. Happy
Speaker 1: Labor Day, everybody. We're calling you from home. I'm in
Speaker 1: Connecticut where my husband mowing the lawn. And if you
Speaker 1: hear that in the background, I apologize. A man is
Speaker 1: in love with his lawn. And Laura, where are you.
Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to mix the spicy Margaret my tiki
Speaker 1: bar at the Jersey Shorey. So in celebration of the
Speaker 1: end of summer, we've been doing a lot of thinking,
Speaker 1: a lot of reflection. We've had so much fun with
Speaker 1: the last seven eight months of bad Land. Yeah, amazing
Speaker 1: conversations with people who are listening, Amazing conversations with people
Speaker 1: in the industry. And Laura and I wanted to bring
Speaker 1: back some of our lost stiles because we think some
Speaker 1: of these conversations that you haven't heard yet are actually
Speaker 1: really still relevant. So we're gonna take a look back
Speaker 1: to really look ahead and the like that. We were
Speaker 1: talking on the phone earlier this morning about all the
Speaker 1: really interesting things that are happening in the streaming environment,
Speaker 1: but really around um some original production that we're hearing
Speaker 1: over at Facebook with their new watch platform. So, I
Speaker 1: mean everybody's been talking about it. We've been talking about
Speaker 1: this for years, but it just seems like, you know,
Speaker 1: everything's heating up in terms of original content, whether it's
Speaker 1: in gaming, original content on platforms like Facebook, and original
Speaker 1: content media companies that are really building their revenue model
Speaker 1: around audiences and really focusing in on audiences and building
Speaker 1: content to really super serve those audiences. So one of
Speaker 1: the things that's getting interesting Alectual're talking about things heating
Speaker 1: up in the original space is this idea that it
Speaker 1: seems that the democratization of networks and platforms is really
Speaker 1: enabling some interesting programming that you don't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: go to Hollywood define even though Apple just dropped what
Speaker 1: was it, like a billion book, UM basically seeking out creators,
Speaker 1: and I think Facebook has an interesting approach. I know,
Speaker 1: we were just talking about how we're excited to see
Speaker 1: Humans of New York become an actual series that we're
Speaker 1: gonna be able to watch. Yeah, I actually tried this
Speaker 1: week and I emailed UM, the founder of Humans of
Speaker 1: New York, and asked them if I could contribute to
Speaker 1: one of the families that was in UM their inaugural
Speaker 1: first episode, UH, because it was just really powerful. What
Speaker 1: I think is really interesting and I've been If anyone
Speaker 1: out there has been having conversations with me off of Adlandia,
Speaker 1: they know I've been obsessed with the A six ten
Speaker 1: V podcast. It came out I think in July. I
Speaker 1: was talking about addiction versus UM popularity and the age
Speaker 1: of morality. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: One of the things that they talk about is because
Speaker 1: of everything that's happening in the streaming space, in the
Speaker 1: programming space, in the original content space, should we be
Speaker 1: thinking that it's the end of endings? And I think
Speaker 1: that that is the main thing. So if you think
Speaker 1: about Humans of New York as a platform, UM, like
Speaker 1: a creative platform, you know, it was generally these amazing
Speaker 1: you know, images and texts, but it was still static
Speaker 1: and now they're moving into video and it's really the
Speaker 1: end of those endings, if you will. So you're gonna
Speaker 1: see more extensions UM, more ways for people to tell stories,
Speaker 1: but still on the same type of kind of creative platform.
Speaker 1: And just by extending the creative platform into new formats
Speaker 1: really is building the franchise out on a totally different level.
Speaker 1: And I think, Laura, that's what you're talking about is
Speaker 1: like there's a there's a real excitement right in this
Speaker 1: investment in original content but also taking creative platforms that
Speaker 1: really work and putting them into new and different places. UM.
Speaker 1: Whether that's Facebook Watch, UM, whether that's gonna be Apple
Speaker 1: and some of their originals, or whether it's even people
Speaker 1: who have kind of legacy programming but are now going
Speaker 1: to transis and that into new media forms. That's exciting
Speaker 1: to us, sotally exciting, and I think it's cool to
Speaker 1: see some of the new players in the content space
Speaker 1: are getting a crack at the opportunity to stream in
Speaker 1: the same ways you would basically turn on your television
Speaker 1: and put on NBC, ABC, etcetera. And so I'm really
Speaker 1: excited to see what from the original programming um is
Speaker 1: that comes out of places like Group nine with you know,
Speaker 1: Ben Lear's Thrillis and the other sub brands under his portfolio. UM.
Speaker 1: And more exciting than that, we're going to get a
Speaker 1: chance to go back into the archives from an earlier
Speaker 1: discussion we had this year with one of the partners
Speaker 1: at Attention A t t N dot Com. Brad Hougan, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you know, we wanted to as you said,
Speaker 1: Laura kind of moved back to move forward to the
Speaker 1: conversation we had with Brad a few months ago. It's
Speaker 1: kind of one of our lost files that we're gonna
Speaker 1: te up in this episode. It's really interesting just talking
Speaker 1: about how they built audience, where they kind of came
Speaker 1: from actually their founders for nonprofit people UM and realized
Speaker 1: that there was more or in the space of entertainment
Speaker 1: and news media that needed to center around UM, not
Speaker 1: cause marketing, but really kind of putting cause issues in
Speaker 1: front of the public and making sure that they're talking
Speaker 1: to things that people have said are important to them.
Speaker 1: And I think that looking forward, you know, to me,
Speaker 1: there are a ton of questions I have in terms
Speaker 1: of where does this put the agency? How do agencies
Speaker 1: get involved in this? If we've got all of these
Speaker 1: media companies and tech companies that are actually producing original
Speaker 1: content more and more, and we know the advertising is
Speaker 1: fundamentally changing, where the agencies sit in this mix? And
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be a future episode that
Speaker 1: we hit on and you know, talk to some folks
Speaker 1: about Its interesting you bring up the idea of where
Speaker 1: this sits in the role of agency, and I think
Speaker 1: one of the more interesting angles that some of these
Speaker 1: publishers who have gotten out in front or producing content
Speaker 1: for brands, whether that's Attention and whether that's Mike, whether
Speaker 1: that's t Brand, whether that's Vox. You know, it's interesting
Speaker 1: to see that not only are these media companies out
Speaker 1: there producing and reporting and you know, providing analysis on
Speaker 1: the issues that matter, they're also starting to pick up
Speaker 1: production work. And it's interesting that they're able to demonstrate
Speaker 1: proof of concept through their actual reporting and journalism and
Speaker 1: being able to put that on the head and say,
Speaker 1: you know what, you know, for brands, we can actually
Speaker 1: get into market quickly and produce content around things that
Speaker 1: are contextually relevant in the moment. So I think agencies
Speaker 1: are going to have to compete with this and figure
Speaker 1: out how and what role they play when you have
Speaker 1: you know, people who have the resources and the production
Speaker 1: capabilities um and also the you know, insight and the
Speaker 1: know how on what's happening to insert a brands of
Speaker 1: culture and do it quickly. I totally agree, and I
Speaker 1: would love to talk. We're going to have Andrew estex
Speaker 1: on stand and I would love to talk to him
Speaker 1: about what does it look like when agencies stop getting
Speaker 1: briefs and start writing them the themselves, like preemptively, just
Speaker 1: about things that they think matter for their brands, and
Speaker 1: start creating relationships that are super strong with these platforms
Speaker 1: so that they have a pipeline for content and quick
Speaker 1: content production that is really innovative. And I think something
Speaker 1: that brands don't know to ask for, but the agency
Speaker 1: can start delivering on. I think there's an opportunity there.
Speaker 1: So enjoy episode fifteen and the last days of summer.
Speaker 1: We'll be enjoying it with a spicy margarita on the
Speaker 1: beach and in the burbs. Thanks bad Landia. We're here
Speaker 1: with Brad Howgan, partner at Attention dot Com and Issues
Speaker 1: based media company. Welcome Brad, Hey, Brad, Hey, guys, glad
Speaker 1: to be here. So Brad, do you have a super
Speaker 1: fascinating story. I'm at ut, but you've gone on to
Speaker 1: done some insane things since then started at BBH in
Speaker 1: New York and then got a call I should say,
Speaker 1: call up to the majors. Maybe I don't know. I
Speaker 1: saw you a chopped I'll never forget I'm Wall Street
Speaker 1: with your wife, and I'm like, what's up. You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm moving to l A. And I'm like why. And
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm going to work with this guy, Scooter
Speaker 1: brou And I was like, who the fund is that
Speaker 1: you grew up with him? Right? Yeah, I've actually been
Speaker 1: working with him for a couple of years at that point,
Speaker 1: but we actually decided we were gonna plant some roots
Speaker 1: and up in office. So we still don't have a tan.
Speaker 1: But you left. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty pale, I'm
Speaker 1: like the white I'm like, I'm super white. I've got
Speaker 1: blond eyebrows. So you were the cmot SP projects and
Speaker 1: then at some point over the course of your time there,
Speaker 1: you decided to move on to Attention. Yeah. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: we've made it. Life is good, money's coming in. Why
Speaker 1: don't I leave and go work at a startup? Get
Speaker 1: something else off the ground, which I figured, like I
Speaker 1: had I've got two young kids and I'm, you know,
Speaker 1: in my mid thirties. I figured I'm gonna give it
Speaker 1: one more go in the startup world because I don't
Speaker 1: think that you know, in ten years, I don't know
Speaker 1: that I'll have it in me again. So it was exciting.
Speaker 1: And I met Matthew and Jarrett in like, Matthew and
Speaker 1: Jared are my partners and the co founders of the company,
Speaker 1: and UM. I helped them get this business off the ground,
Speaker 1: but they're the ones who had the vision for it,
Speaker 1: and it was a really um they're really spectacular guys.
Speaker 1: I met them in two thousand, I guess mid two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, like leading into the election, they had started
Speaker 1: our time dot org and we were introduced UM when
Speaker 1: I was working a scooter to help get talent to
Speaker 1: be in videos and tweet about voter registration. And I
Speaker 1: was just always really impressed by how that two of
Speaker 1: them specifically were able to on a nonprofit budget not
Speaker 1: only get talent to do things for them, but they
Speaker 1: were actually really good at breaking down the issues and like,
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't just a video with Usher or
Speaker 1: Jessica Alba saying vote. It was like, here's why you
Speaker 1: should vote. And you know, I don't want to put
Speaker 1: words in their mouth, but I feel like they were
Speaker 1: a little bit frustrated with nonprofit space because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of restrictions, but they were really excited about the
Speaker 1: content side of that business, and they wanted to start
Speaker 1: a media company, and um, I knew some people who
Speaker 1: were really excited to invest in that space, and um,
Speaker 1: they all met and they loved each other, and um
Speaker 1: they got the business off the ground, and then I
Speaker 1: came on board about eight months later. Um, but it
Speaker 1: was it's been like a cool ride. You make it
Speaker 1: sound so easy, and it's it's just that easy and
Speaker 1: it's just that yeah, and now we have attention and
Speaker 1: here we are. But they really put in the work
Speaker 1: and there's a great core team of people who've been
Speaker 1: there at the company for a little over two years.
Speaker 1: And UM, you know, it's been it's a grind every day,
Speaker 1: but like when you get to make content that matters
Speaker 1: and work on things that you're passionate about, it's really
Speaker 1: it makes the job a lot easier. Doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: every day isn't a grind. It just means, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you can be proud of the output on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: and that's exciting. It's exciting to be part of. And
Speaker 1: that's how I was when I was a scooter. That's
Speaker 1: how I was when I was a BBH. Like I
Speaker 1: love the creative work that we made. Then I was
Speaker 1: going to ask you, I mean, what's the difference between
Speaker 1: going from entertainment music based work where you're like driving
Speaker 1: rising stars, you're talking to millennials, which are still talking
Speaker 1: to millennials, right, um, but more on the entertainment side,
Speaker 1: to now something where you're really trying to drive issue education,
Speaker 1: right Yeah. I mean I think that there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things that are parallels and like similar so
Speaker 1: building a foundation, building an audience, building fandom, right. Like
Speaker 1: I always tell people what's been really impressive about the
Speaker 1: growth of Attention is it's actually not that different from Bieber.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people say that we came out
Speaker 1: of nowhere, but we've been around doing this for two
Speaker 1: years and we've been Facebook has been a huge integral
Speaker 1: part of it, yea a massive a piece of it,
Speaker 1: and we've really were focused on just making great quality
Speaker 1: content that people wanted to share. Um. We've never promoted
Speaker 1: a post, we've never boosted a Facebook post, we've never
Speaker 1: paid for any growth at all. And it's because we're
Speaker 1: just focused on making really good, premium shareable content. And
Speaker 1: like when I was working with Scooters, the same thing
Speaker 1: it was. You know, people said, oh, my god, Justin
Speaker 1: Bieber came out of nowhere. But um, we had been
Speaker 1: at it for a long time, and Scooter in particular
Speaker 1: had been at it for a very long time years before,
Speaker 1: you know, just making videos that people thought Justin was
Speaker 1: making himself like you know, Scooter was masterminding that, and
Speaker 1: you know the stories out there now you know, made
Speaker 1: a couple of movies about it. But it's not that dissimilar. Um,
Speaker 1: I think the differences are you know, we're entertainment and
Speaker 1: music in particular is um and talent manage in particular
Speaker 1: is much more. You don't really it's not like a
Speaker 1: huge scalable business with regards to like you don't need
Speaker 1: a lot of staff, you know, it's like you need
Speaker 1: managers to manage projects and maybe a couple of people
Speaker 1: to support um projects. But um, you know, the difference
Speaker 1: for me has been going back to I have to
Speaker 1: draw a lot back from my advertising agency days, where
Speaker 1: it's like building structure and holding staff accountable, holding myself accountable. Um,
Speaker 1: and um, it's relearning old skills of you know, you
Speaker 1: still have to hustle, but you have to hustle with
Speaker 1: a lot more structure in your day, which is which
Speaker 1: is you know, when you're working in entertainment. When when
Speaker 1: I was working entertainment, we we had a lot of hustle,
Speaker 1: but it was just kind of like let's do this,
Speaker 1: let's do this, let's do this, let's do this. And
Speaker 1: now it's like, okay, well we need to think about
Speaker 1: the plan, like what are we doing next year? What
Speaker 1: are we doing in two years? And how do we
Speaker 1: grow our business? And it's it's just different, you know
Speaker 1: because a lot most of the fake news bubble, like
Speaker 1: what wrench has that thrown in your plan? Considering a
Speaker 1: lot of or has it? Yeah, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: thrown any wrenches in our plan. I mean we're really
Speaker 1: focus and you know, I don't run our editorial operation.
Speaker 1: Matthew Siegel does, and he does a sensational job. He
Speaker 1: is amazing instincts for what people want to want to Um.
Speaker 1: I mean Our Time was his first thing. Like they
Speaker 1: started Our Time right after college. Um. But they both
Speaker 1: were in d C. And Matthew testified before Congress about
Speaker 1: voting lines that he had waited, like I don't remember
Speaker 1: the exact numbers, but I think it's like a nineteen
Speaker 1: hour voting line or something crazy. He voted after they
Speaker 1: called the election in two thousand eight, um, and he
Speaker 1: was pissed, and then he testified before Congress and he
Speaker 1: was like super involved in politics ever since. So it's
Speaker 1: got a very strong play. That's actually a killer story
Speaker 1: and the motivating story for why attention exists. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: it's that's why our time started. It was like civic engagement,
Speaker 1: like let's let's get young people involved, and then that
Speaker 1: rolled into attention. Same thing. It's like, you know, we
Speaker 1: want to start conversations that matter around issues that deserve attention,
Speaker 1: and we want young people to feel like they can
Speaker 1: understand these issues. All people really that they can feel
Speaker 1: like they can understand issues, um, in ways that they
Speaker 1: want to consume them. Because people aren't going and watching
Speaker 1: our long documentaries on a regular basis anymore. Um. People
Speaker 1: are on their phone all day and people are not, um,
Speaker 1: you know, reading as much for better or words. I
Speaker 1: think reading actually went up a little bit around the
Speaker 1: election cost election, which is great, UM, but video is huge,
Speaker 1: and UM, if you can distill you know, the Syrian
Speaker 1: refugee screening process into two minutes, which we did with
Speaker 1: the White House, then in people watch it and you
Speaker 1: get millions of people to watch something like that. That's cool.
Speaker 1: You worked with the White House on that, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: work with the White House on that and on quite
Speaker 1: a lot of other projects as well. We've done some
Speaker 1: Zeca Explainer videos with the White House. We've UM done
Speaker 1: some coverage and videos around UM, the commutation of some
Speaker 1: people who are incarcerated with UM when the President the
Speaker 1: last two times we've broken a couple of stories with
Speaker 1: the President that as well. Alex and I has spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about kind of the the
Speaker 1: emergence of issues based media companies out of the distermediation
Speaker 1: of traditional news companies based on social and what have you.
Speaker 1: Why do you think the time has been right for
Speaker 1: attention now? Like, why do you think you've been able
Speaker 1: to scale? How many uniques are you up to now?
Speaker 1: We reach over half a billion people monthly globally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean why now? I mean we we debate this
Speaker 1: all the time, like, you know, given social and given
Speaker 1: the place, like, what role will attention play in the
Speaker 1: next ten fift twenty years for our generation? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean I think it's I think it's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: I think part of its luck as as it always is. Right,
Speaker 1: We launched our company at the same time that Facebook
Speaker 1: Video launched, and we made a conscious decision to ignore
Speaker 1: all other properties. We were way behind everybody else on YouTube,
Speaker 1: so platform decision was, let's just be really good at
Speaker 1: Facebook and hope that Facebook video is going to be
Speaker 1: as big as we think it is. And so we
Speaker 1: took that risk, which paid off. And I want to
Speaker 1: interrupt the flow, but like, how do you make that?
Speaker 1: How did you make that? Bet? So when you when
Speaker 1: you look at both platforms, Facebook was kind of in
Speaker 1: this interesting place, but totally the reasoning was twofold. When
Speaker 1: you look at both platforms. One, everyone was way ahead
Speaker 1: of us on YouTube, but everyone is in the same
Speaker 1: playing field on Facebook video, Like nobody had any views
Speaker 1: a month, right, it was just like just starting. So
Speaker 1: we were whether your vice or your buzz feed or
Speaker 1: your attention, you're all at zero right there, just launching second.
Speaker 1: YouTube had become and still is a massive search platform.
Speaker 1: But if you're a company that nobody's ever heard of,
Speaker 1: no one's going to search for you on YouTube because
Speaker 1: like they've never heard of you, so why would they
Speaker 1: go on there? And you know, that's my My use
Speaker 1: case for for YouTube is probably the same as you guys,
Speaker 1: which is like, oh I want to watch this video.
Speaker 1: Oh I want to listen to this song, and you
Speaker 1: just everyone does. Right, that's your YouTube engine. It's the
Speaker 1: number two search engine after Google. Yeah and right, I
Speaker 1: mean I'm just railing off facts. Yea yeah. But as
Speaker 1: a platform, I'm pretty sure. So so you have that
Speaker 1: versus Facebook, which was already a discovery platform, right. The
Speaker 1: feed allows you to discover things easier. So we're like, okay,
Speaker 1: well if that's the case, and you know, and again
Speaker 1: this this decision was made largely by Jared Matthew, Michael,
Speaker 1: Mike Finissi and our team at the time, um, and
Speaker 1: they did a great job just you know, making that call.
Speaker 1: And it was the right call and it paid off.
Speaker 1: So where are you doubling down? Like what technology are
Speaker 1: you bullish on in and kind of what's driving that?
Speaker 1: Is it marketers, is it the news cycle? Is it culture?
Speaker 1: Where are you really focusing? So I'll answer that in
Speaker 1: a couple of parts. One, it's definitely not the news cycle, um,
Speaker 1: which is the gift that keeps I probably have a
Speaker 1: more aggressive everyone saying that, Well, I have a. I
Speaker 1: have probably more aggressive stance than most people at our company,
Speaker 1: but we all feel the same way, which is we
Speaker 1: are not a news company. We don't want to be
Speaker 1: a news company. Our goal is to be impervious to
Speaker 1: the news cycle. I don't want to be the next
Speaker 1: generation news company. I'm not trying to take down CNN.
Speaker 1: There's a really good, fascinating how this dynamic has changed
Speaker 1: over the last twelve months. Well, so, like the new
Speaker 1: cycle is an up and down business, right, so you're
Speaker 1: when the news is good, your business is good. When
Speaker 1: the news is bad, your business is bad. It's just
Speaker 1: not a good business. And we feel like it was
Speaker 1: for generations. Yeah, but that was when they were not
Speaker 1: That was when they were like five, like three stations
Speaker 1: to get news leading to a bigger point. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1: So now with like like everyone's covering the same thing
Speaker 1: over and over again. Right, So our whole point is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, what do millennials care about? What do people
Speaker 1: care about? They care about issues more importantly. People are
Speaker 1: again this is like me my point of view, but
Speaker 1: like people are selfish and they care about not just
Speaker 1: the issue, but how that issue affects them. And so
Speaker 1: our goal is to show people here's what the issue,
Speaker 1: here's what it means, and here's how it's going to
Speaker 1: affect you in your life. And is that playing to
Speaker 1: the echo chamber though? Is it playing to the echo
Speaker 1: chamber of like, here's what's trending, here's what we want
Speaker 1: to think. So, because I mean, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of things that are just like you know we we do.
Speaker 1: We have a series called America Versus right, um, and
Speaker 1: we do this on a very regular the videos where
Speaker 1: you demonstrate like food in schools in this country compared
Speaker 1: to Japan. The first thing we did in the series
Speaker 1: was America Versus Japan school lunches. We've done four hundred
Speaker 1: million views on America Versus videos this year, just this year,
Speaker 1: and um, we really struck a churt. So Nick, now,
Speaker 1: for instance, we're taking that series and we're gonna ladder
Speaker 1: it up. So we get we're looking for a host.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take that host around the world and we're
Speaker 1: going to compare America to other countries you know, hosted
Speaker 1: series and that's like we know that that works, right,
Speaker 1: So that's where the talent you're investing in to do
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Who are the talent. We're taling, so
Speaker 1: I mean we're talking to some talent, but like we
Speaker 1: go back and forth a little bit. It's like, do
Speaker 1: we want to find someone who's well known already or
Speaker 1: and for whether it's that series or any series, or
Speaker 1: do we want to homegrow talent um and like find
Speaker 1: people that nobody has heard of, but like bring them
Speaker 1: up with us, And like it's kind of like Rolling
Speaker 1: Stone back in the day. It's like you want to
Speaker 1: find your you know, you're a Cameron Crow was, um,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, wouldn't it be cool?
Speaker 1: So like we're just investing in young talent. We have
Speaker 1: all these amazingly talented writers, watching editors. Who's the up
Speaker 1: and coming talent at our company? I mean, we've got
Speaker 1: a lot of people. I don't want to I don't
Speaker 1: want to single anyone out, I guess because I don't
Speaker 1: want anyone to feel bad. But I will say this.
Speaker 1: We have, um, a guy named Omar Roland who runs
Speaker 1: are our snapchat. He does a show on on our
Speaker 1: Snapchat called how to Sound Smart, and he gives you
Speaker 1: a hilarious he like does it while he's in bed,
Speaker 1: brushing his teeth, picking out his outfit and he's like,
Speaker 1: these are the three things you need to notice sound
Speaker 1: smart today, and uh, it's a it's just a great
Speaker 1: it's a great show. Like and it's to the point
Speaker 1: where like, uh, I get my mom My mom texts
Speaker 1: me every day She's like, oh my god, Omri was
Speaker 1: amazing today. So he was great. We've got Kyle Yeager,
Speaker 1: who's probably like the best young marijuana reporter in the country,
Speaker 1: and I genuinely believe that we have a woman but
Speaker 1: one of the first platforms, by the way, that I
Speaker 1: think was really bringing to the forefront, UM, marijuana legalization. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at the risk of sounding totally braggadocious, I would put
Speaker 1: our marijuana coverage up against anyone's, Like I really do
Speaker 1: think that, and um, we've covered it doggedly over the
Speaker 1: last two years. UM to the relations with marketers, though
Speaker 1: I'm curious, I honestly don't think they care. I don't either.
Speaker 1: I don't think they care. I think they're other things
Speaker 1: that we that we could cover that people are way
Speaker 1: more sensitive about, um, like politics. You know, it's funny,
Speaker 1: it's like from a marketing perspective to everyone's like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, it's probably so much money being thrown at
Speaker 1: the election, like blah blah blah from from brands and
Speaker 1: normally that is the case, right, like brand spend this election,
Speaker 1: Like everyone pulled back. Everyone's liked in the middle dance
Speaker 1: floor by himself. Everybody was like it was like the
Speaker 1: bud light. The bud light adds with like Seth Rogan
Speaker 1: and yeah, that was it. That's like all I saw,
Speaker 1: wasted to see hit the fucking wall. But you didn't
Speaker 1: want to be in the way of that happening. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to go back to have celebrities come to
Speaker 1: you and said, I love what you're doing, like you
Speaker 1: have relationships and it doesn't have to be celebrities, but talent,
Speaker 1: right like people entertainment super connected. I mean I was.
Speaker 1: I was very lucky to work in the talent business
Speaker 1: for long time. And it's beneficially yeah, I mean, but
Speaker 1: not just me, like our whole we have multiple people
Speaker 1: in our company who I mean, we're in l a
Speaker 1: like with multiple people in our company, Matthew and Jarrett included,
Speaker 1: who've done a lot of videos with talent, like you know,
Speaker 1: like we we did a video with Usher. I brought
Speaker 1: Usher in, but he remembered Matthew and Jarrett from when
Speaker 1: he did videos with Our Time. So how did that
Speaker 1: come about? Um, we have uh, a young hustler at
Speaker 1: our company who figured out a way and it wasn't me.
Speaker 1: It didn't come through me. She just figured out a
Speaker 1: way to get to to get to Gaga's team. But
Speaker 1: like I would actually think right now, especially right now
Speaker 1: that celebrities are saying they need or thinking, you know what,
Speaker 1: if I'm going to do something with this right if
Speaker 1: I'm going to do something with this, this fame, this voice,
Speaker 1: I want to go and partner with someone that it's
Speaker 1: going to be meaningful. So are you getting pete? Are
Speaker 1: you guys getting calls? Was like, hey, love what you're doing.
Speaker 1: What are they saying they want an outlet? So like
Speaker 1: I'll give you a good example, Like we're doing some stuff.
Speaker 1: We've done some stuff and or continue to do some
Speaker 1: stuff with Vic mensa Um, who is an artist who's
Speaker 1: one of the hottest up and coming rappers in the country.
Speaker 1: He's incredible talent and he uh, he's actually a guy
Speaker 1: who puts his money where his mouth is. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of people, not just talent, people like to talk
Speaker 1: about issues and like shine light on issues. Vic went
Speaker 1: to Standing Rock. Vic went to Flint, Vic went and
Speaker 1: protested when Lacwon McDonald was shot. He wrote a song
Speaker 1: about on the show The show, I mean, I can
Speaker 1: we can ask. VI's amazing, He's incredible. I think I
Speaker 1: could have handled that. I honestly don't think, but you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. He went to Standing Rock twice.
Speaker 1: He went, and he went and he brought like a
Speaker 1: group of activists back and there are a lot of
Speaker 1: their They stood on the front lines and like protected
Speaker 1: the protesters and like he brought people back to Standing
Speaker 1: He rented a bus on his own dime from Chicago
Speaker 1: where he's from, drove people overnight to Standing Rock and
Speaker 1: they all protested and like this is like how active
Speaker 1: he is. And then he channels this into his music,
Speaker 1: which is very He's he's just an activist at heart,
Speaker 1: and like that's that's you. That's not everybody, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be everybody, but like what we want
Speaker 1: to be in that conversation is the platform that they use.
Speaker 1: So like I always say, like going back to my
Speaker 1: music days, it's like when you put out an album
Speaker 1: or or a single, you want you gotta go do
Speaker 1: the Today's Show, and you do Fallon and you do
Speaker 1: Kimmel or you probably can't do both, but you do
Speaker 1: one of the two. You do ellen Um and you've
Speaker 1: got like the Rolling Stone cover and this. That's all
Speaker 1: to promote the music. But when a publicist is trying
Speaker 1: to get their artists out there, they also want human stories.
Speaker 1: We want to be a stop on that press tour
Speaker 1: so that talent comes to us. Would you say it's
Speaker 1: like a young MTV. Yeah, I would say that. I
Speaker 1: mean there's a hole in the market for it. I
Speaker 1: love MTV so passionate, I love I love it, but
Speaker 1: it's still a great brand. It's an amazing brand. They're
Speaker 1: amazing people there the time, and we are rooting for
Speaker 1: them all the time. Is now. The time is now.
Speaker 1: Though some advice, there's you guys, there's so many. You
Speaker 1: are very very different than Vice, very very trust me.
Speaker 1: I love Vice. I'm a consumer and I have a
Speaker 1: lot of friends there, and I know you guys do too,
Speaker 1: But I think that they're You're right, there's a place
Speaker 1: for that. But I'm interested too because I think that
Speaker 1: UM celebrities sometimes attach themselves to certain things. I don't
Speaker 1: think that the way you're talking about issues that you
Speaker 1: can just attach yourself. You have to do something with it.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think is is actually different when
Speaker 1: you have a product and I'm gonna call attention right
Speaker 1: what you do as a product that is that, Um,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just real. It's real. And I love
Speaker 1: that you're not driven by the news cycle because it
Speaker 1: actually makes it. Uh, it gives some dissonance right to
Speaker 1: the news cycle that it needs how we break through.
Speaker 1: That's how you break through totally. Like there are great
Speaker 1: companies out there in our space that are attacking the news.
Speaker 1: Um that you know, a lot of people consider competition
Speaker 1: of ours, Like I think they just make their good
Speaker 1: companies that go out and you know, make good content.
Speaker 1: But like we are not you know now like now
Speaker 1: this news like or now this now that I guess
Speaker 1: they're rebranded themselves. Um, they're they're a great company, like Sensational,
Speaker 1: I think they But they make so much content and
Speaker 1: they're like breaking things all day every day. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we're not doing three D videos a month.
Speaker 1: We're not doing two D videos a month. We do
Speaker 1: like fifty And if you're going to limit yourself to
Speaker 1: doing fifty videos in a month. You have to make
Speaker 1: sure that every video counts. And like we're the number
Speaker 1: one publisher in America on digital average use per video
Speaker 1: with the number one and engagements per video. And so
Speaker 1: you bring up an interesting point in that, right, because
Speaker 1: I think it's as marketers is something we kind of
Speaker 1: quarrel a bit about, which is you know, frequency over impact, right,
Speaker 1: And and basically what you're just saying is you can
Speaker 1: turn and burn content out all day, but is the
Speaker 1: impact in which you're delivering that meaningful depends on your business?
Speaker 1: And I was just saying, if you care like seeing
Speaker 1: it's like are you are you going to be CNN
Speaker 1: or are you going to be I would argue. I
Speaker 1: would argue though, that everybody has the opportunity to be
Speaker 1: a CNN at this point, you know, everybody have given
Speaker 1: social and now although really hard, yeah, but I'm saying
Speaker 1: everybody's an opportunity to break news. Everybody has the opportunity
Speaker 1: to have a voice. There is doing a really good
Speaker 1: job at that. By the way, BuzzFeed News does not
Speaker 1: get enough credit for breaking stories. They never have actually
Speaker 1: for writing actually very good, great stories. I think they
Speaker 1: do a great job. So where are places you're Brad
Speaker 1: making big bets for I mean, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of are you investing in partnerships? Talks us a little
Speaker 1: bit about your relationship with Bill Maher. You've done some
Speaker 1: great content with him. Are these a type of relationship
Speaker 1: you're looking to build out for the new year? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're Bill. Bill has been since a
Speaker 1: sensational investor. He's an investor in our business. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: he and he and Matthew in particularly gotten very close.
Speaker 1: They're very similar. Matthew is like the biggest Bill mar fan.
Speaker 1: And it was so it was so badass because he
Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna get Bill Maurer to invest in
Speaker 1: this company, and he and he just like hustled it.
Speaker 1: Peace bar did. He did a panel with um it
Speaker 1: was on his show. It was with John Legend. Dude.
Speaker 1: It was one of the best. You know, it was
Speaker 1: a lot of people, a lot of people started talking
Speaker 1: a lot more about it. But I have not really
Speaker 1: been engaged by him in that way until I saw
Speaker 1: that post. So like, he's been a great partner from
Speaker 1: from you see yourself leaning into smart comedy a bit, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, I think we're gonna make some bets on
Speaker 1: comedy for sure, and I think smart comedy though smart,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna Yeah, I mean it's not it would
Speaker 1: be off brands to not be um, but I do think, Um,
Speaker 1: I think we're I think keep going, keep going. We
Speaker 1: could stop there, but we're gonna keep going. We could
Speaker 1: and we're good. Um, but I think, um, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're we're gonna make someone. We're always doubling down on
Speaker 1: Facebook every day because I don't think Facebook going anywhere
Speaker 1: anytime soon. But can we talking about that less than
Speaker 1: three seconds? There's been a lot of transparency issues, reach issues,
Speaker 1: like you know, when you're talking to a brand, you're
Speaker 1: talking to a marketer or even talking to talent, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about in terms of the views you're getting?
Speaker 1: Like how real are you get? Trust in transparency? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's important, Yeah, for your brand, it's important
Speaker 1: for your viewers. Right, So, like how are you are
Speaker 1: you many conversations with Facebook? It's yeah, we talked to
Speaker 1: Facebook every day. But it's also I mean, we're in
Speaker 1: a very lucky position right now in that, like our
Speaker 1: numbers are incredible because organic, because they're organic and our
Speaker 1: completion rates are Like that's the fundamental difference. Like when
Speaker 1: you don't pay for views, you have real So like
Speaker 1: when Facebook changes are algorithm, people like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: are you guys? Like no, because we're just optimizing for
Speaker 1: shares anyway, Like I want people to share amongst their
Speaker 1: friends and their family. People elect to like attention because
Speaker 1: no one sees it in a sponsored thing, watches one
Speaker 1: video and just clicks like because that's how the ere
Speaker 1: attrition rate is. Just it's just different. It's just like
Speaker 1: a totally different. When you think about audiences, especially on Facebook,
Speaker 1: how do you start thinking about who your audience really is?
Speaker 1: Because millennial doesn't mean it means something, But when you're
Speaker 1: talking about you know, audience reach, it means you know,
Speaker 1: you better go hustle the world. Yeah, of course. I
Speaker 1: mean look, you've got to always start with your core.
Speaker 1: Like Facebook is a millennial platform, Like there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people does more than millennials are on Facebook
Speaker 1: but this but a lot of the shares are driven
Speaker 1: by like mid twenties to mid thirties to late thirties people,
Speaker 1: and um, that is like that's that's like our core audience.
Speaker 1: So like that's Facebook, but every platform is Like our
Speaker 1: audience on Instagram is different from our audience on Facebook,
Speaker 1: our audience on Snapchat, which we're growing and betting a
Speaker 1: lot on in seventeen to your question earlier, is different,
Speaker 1: like it's younger. Uh, it's they want to see different
Speaker 1: types of content, Like it can't be the same stuff.
Speaker 1: And I think where a lot of traditional media companies fail.
Speaker 1: And this is like the obvious answer to people who know,
Speaker 1: but when you look at it, when you when you
Speaker 1: when you don't know, Like you can't just cut the
Speaker 1: same thing first for Snapchat, Instagram face, you can't just
Speaker 1: do it sting to it now. Honestly, they are some
Speaker 1: of them are. That doesn't mean you're starting to execute
Speaker 1: some of them are. But a lot of them are
Speaker 1: getting it by like acquiring companies right and or hiring
Speaker 1: the right people or partnering with people were starting. Like
Speaker 1: I think CNN has done a great job. I don't
Speaker 1: think great Big Story gets enough credit. I think there
Speaker 1: are a lot of you know, you're the second person
Speaker 1: this week that actually has said that. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: turners feel like I feel like they're on the upswing,
Speaker 1: thewing going into you know, everybody's starting. That's true, I
Speaker 1: think so. I mean between a Time Warner deal with
Speaker 1: I will tell you that I wanted to say this before,
Speaker 1: but there was a I don't. I'm not I'm going
Speaker 1: to butcher the quotes. I'll just say into you guys later.
Speaker 1: But there's a YouTube clip of Ben Smith from BuzzFeed
Speaker 1: on a panel with Jeff Zucker and Jeff Sucker like
Speaker 1: it's it's really impressive what CNN does. He's like, he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, Ben, what do you have to do? You know?
Speaker 1: Be like Ben was very asked this question. I don't
Speaker 1: remember who was on the panel. The point is that
Speaker 1: Jeff Zucker was like, basically, Ben Smith was like, I
Speaker 1: do two minutes of content a month, right for short
Speaker 1: form video. And Jeff was like, with all due respect,
Speaker 1: I did two hundred minutes of content in three hours
Speaker 1: and I do that all day every day. And you're like,
Speaker 1: holy crap, Like CNN, for whether you like it or
Speaker 1: hate it, is an impressive operation. Before you go, we
Speaker 1: have to play one game with you because it plants
Speaker 1: versus zombies, because I'm obsessed with that on my phone now.
Speaker 1: But we'd like so we like kill fuck Mary you know,
Speaker 1: kill Mary, Yeah, I do. We're going to ask You're
Speaker 1: not gonna ask you that. Okay, good, We're not gonna
Speaker 1: ask you that. But we we like the model, right
Speaker 1: and that's goods go. I don't know what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be out. Are you watching? But it's kill What would
Speaker 1: you kill? What would you buy? And what would you
Speaker 1: do yourself? D I Y? So we'll give you options.
Speaker 1: Don't worry. Kill kill by d I Y, Amazon, Netflix, HBO,
Speaker 1: kill by Open up my notepad here the little math.
Speaker 1: He's got to see which one is. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to hurt his partnerships and producers, like wrap it up,
Speaker 1: Rad like getting out of um all right, I would
Speaker 1: by Amazon, I would kill Netflix, and I would do HBO. Yeah, Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter,
Speaker 1: I would kill Twitter here, I would buy Facebook and
Speaker 1: I would do Snapchat myself. Biber, Kanye Beyonce, no comment,
Speaker 1: I'd buy Biber, Brad, Brad Howgen, everybody from Attention dot
Speaker 1: com be sure to check out the site. Like it
Speaker 1: on Facebook. Thanks guys, Thanks, thank you. So that's the
Speaker 1: episode fifteen. I hope you enjoyed the Lost File with
Speaker 1: Brad Howgan from Attention. Thank you, Brad, and a big
Speaker 1: thanks for our best producer he's actually our only producer,
Speaker 1: Cameron Drew's Enjoy Your Label Day weekend. Also special thanks
Speaker 1: as always to Andy Bower's, Matt Turk and our friends
Speaker 1: and family. A panoply thanks bad Landia, Do you in
Speaker 1: two weeks? Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.