1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Last week we had doctor Snowden on the show and 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: she talked to us all about nuclear energy, and it 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: feels like it was right on time because those gas 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: prices had just skyrocketed, so we need to continue focusing 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: on natural resources and ways to power our lives. 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I thought, Okay, we got that under control. 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: I feel like I know what's going on with energy. 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 2: But then it felt like all along my timeline all 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: in the news. Another natural resource that I hadn't considered 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: was popping up. NASA's talking about making a new alloy. 11 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: Biden was talking about the infrastructure plan only using US steel, 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: and I was like, do we have enough of that? 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: Where is the steal coming from? Is Pittsburgh still doing that? 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: I'm concerned. And then not only is Elon Musk talking 15 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: about buying Twitter, Tesla's also in the news for using 16 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: manganese as the metal in their new battery cell they're 17 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: trying to work on. I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah and 18 00:00:49,680 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: from Spotify. This is stove Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs podcast, 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: a weekly podcast that makes this hardcore science, pop culture 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: and a healthy dose of friendship. There's a lot of 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: conversation about natural resources, and we see those gas prices 22 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: sky rocketing, and some folks are saying we should pay 23 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: closer attention to metals. Yeah, mercury and tuda mercury and 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: retrograde nickels nowhere to be found. I mean, it's all bad. 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: So this week we're talking all about metals. We're figuring 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: out what constitutes a metal. So how is it classified 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: and where we see metals and not just in the 28 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: stuff that we use in day to day that we 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: know about, but some of the ways that metals are 30 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: used that we don't know about. 31 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the recitation. 32 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: So what do we know? 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think the concern about metals isn't new. I 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 2: remember when people were stealing like copper pipes. I remember that. 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: I do remember that. 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: Which told me something was up with at least copper, 37 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: right is. 38 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: It because copper is expensive and people feel like they 39 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: can resell it? 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: You know? 41 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: There was just so many questions swirling around that. But 42 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: it was a very interesting time to be alive. I 43 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: think another thing that we know is that metal is important, 44 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: that we need it for a lot of different things 45 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: in our tech and a lot of engineering applications. And 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: in biological applications. So what do we want to know? 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: I know, I want to know when we consider all 48 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: this stuff, Like you just said the gas price is 49 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: going up, considering our natural resources and what's going on 50 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: with the planet. Metals are coming out of the earth, 51 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: So how are we looking on metals? Are we on track? 52 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: Do we need to cut back? 53 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: You know? 54 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: Where are we? 55 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: What I want to know is more of the biology 56 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: side of metals, because I think I understand metals when 57 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: it comes to engineering and structures and the importance there, 58 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: But I don't really know metals when it comes to biology. 59 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: So I'll be really interested to hear more about that. 60 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: And I think, even though I know the metals are 61 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: important for technology, than what like, are we subbing them out? 62 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: Are we using a variety of metals? Are there some 63 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: metals that we just always use for tech stuff? Like? 64 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: Where are we on that? Okay, let's jump into the dissection. 65 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: Our guest for today's episode is doctor Kate Butner. Kate 66 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: is a friend of the show and our friend in 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: real life. 68 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: I'm Kate Butner. I am a bioin organic chemist in 69 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: the chemistry department at Guttysburg College. 70 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so first things first, what is an inorganic chemist. 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: I know, when we hear the word organic, we usually 72 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: like whole foods, But this type of inorganic has to 73 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: do with the makeup of a chemical compound. So organic 74 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: means carbon based compounds and inorganic is non carbon based compounds. 75 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: Kate is an inorganic chemist who focuses on metals, so 76 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: we asked her to help us understand how common metals are, 77 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: why we should care about them, and what are the 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: defining features of metals. 79 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 3: When you generally are thinking about metals, you're thinking about 80 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: probably metals in bulk. 81 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: What Kate means, what she says in bulk is that 82 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: when we're interacting with metals in our day to day 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: lives like jewelry, cutlery, and appliances, we're seeing the end 84 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: product of a compound that was once very, very tiny. 85 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: So the goal we see in jay Z's grill looks different. 86 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: Well, you can have pure gold in your grill, but 87 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: for other metals like steel, steel is not something that 88 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: you just you know, open up the ground you find steel. 89 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: Steel is actually iron that's been treated with carbon to 90 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: get this really strong material. So steel is an alloy, 91 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: not just one singular metal, and alloy is a combination 92 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: of two metals to create another. When we're talking about alloys, 93 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: that's usually in the bulk. That's how we get steel, sterling, silver, 94 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: and a lot of the different metal compositions that we 95 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: know and love today. But on the opposite end of 96 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: that spectrum are really really tiny particles like nanoparticles. I 97 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: worked with nano particles when I was in graduate school, 98 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: and when I was working with nanoparticle gold at that scale, 99 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: when the gold particles are so tiny, when it's suspended 100 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: in a liquid, it almost gives us pinkish purple color. 101 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: So from nanoparticle to bulk materials that we're using, the 102 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: physical properties can change in the way that we interact 103 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: with those properties can change as well. 104 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: I think there are other examples of metals behaving in 105 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: ways that we aren't aware of. 106 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 3: So those are things like sodium, which if you're thinking 107 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: about sodium metal and you take a hunk of sodium 108 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,559 Speaker 3: metal and throw it in water, it will catch on fire. 109 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: That reminds me of Lab twenty seven. Here comes the 110 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: boom where we talked all about fireworks. So sodium is 111 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: one of the elements that's used in fireworks to help 112 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: give them their color. Sodium makes orange, copper makes green, 113 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: strontium makes red. So it all makes sense. 114 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: But sodium is everywhere. 115 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: It's your table salt. 116 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 3: And so you have sodium and potassium that you're eating 117 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: every day and are important for you living. 118 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: Did you know that sodium and potassium or metals. 119 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: You know, it makes sense based on what we know 120 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 2: about the periodic table, but I don't think of them 121 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 2: in that form from a biological perspective. I think of 122 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 2: them always in a compound with some other element, like 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: sodium and chloride, giving me sodium chloride, which is salt. 124 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: You know, So did I know? Is it buried somewhere 125 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: deep in my head? I don't think of it that way. 126 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: Well, you know our cereal is not catching on fires, 127 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: so we know it's very very different. 128 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: When I think about metals, I'm thinking about steel and 129 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: titanium and copper, and I'm thinking back to those early 130 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: principles I learned that probably are the most primitive concepts 131 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: in material science. I know you know it way better 132 00:06:59,320 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: than me. 133 00:06:59,640 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 3: T T. 134 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: And I think you know I haven't had to look 135 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: back and think about the periodic table in this way 136 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: so I didn't really appreciate just how many metals are 137 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: in it. 138 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: On the periodic table, metals make up over two thirds 139 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: of the elements. 140 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: So now we understand a little bit more about what 141 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: metals are. Now we want to talk about where they are. 142 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: There's different levels of abundance in the Earth's crust versus 143 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: in the water, versus in like the human body, because 144 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 3: different elements are differently stabilized in different environments, and so 145 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 3: they're going to be in lower concentrations in the oceans 146 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: versus in the Earth's crust. And so lots of the 147 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: metals that we find are in mineral forms, in lots 148 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 3: of the rocks and minerals that are everywhere. And so 149 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 3: if you look at what elements are most abundant, iron 150 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: is the most abundant thing that you probably think of 151 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: as a metal. Titanium is also quite abundant, just one 152 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 3: of the reasons that we try to use it, and 153 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: so iron and titanium are the most common. There's also 154 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: lots of magnesium and calcium and sodium potassium, and there's 155 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 3: also lots of aluminum. 156 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: The two most abundant elements in the Earth's crust are oxygen, 157 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: and silicon. So oxygen makes up about forty six point 158 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: one percent and silicon is twenty eight point two percent. 159 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: But those aren't metals. Silicon has some metallic properties, but 160 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: not real, real metals. It's a semiconductor that makes so 161 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: much sense when we think about it. Semiconductor h partially conducting. 162 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: Semiconductor materials are elements that are partially conducting. Yeah, so 163 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: when you hear the word semiconductor, that means that they 164 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: are using those specific materials in that device. The most 165 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: abundant metal found in the Earth's crust is aluminium, and 166 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: that makes up eight point twenty three percent. Iron is 167 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: five point sixty three percent, and it's the most mined 168 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: because it's essential for steel production. Calcium is four point 169 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: one five percent, Magnesium is two point three three percent, 170 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: potassium is two point zero nine percent, in titanium is 171 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: zero point five six five percent, and the rest of 172 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: the metals, they make up point four eight percent of 173 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: the Earth's crust. And notice how we didn't say anything 174 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: like gold, silver, copper, nickel, platinum, or any of those 175 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: other precious metals. Precious metals are metals that are rare. 176 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: They're naturally occurring, but they have high economic value as well, 177 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: and that's because although they're the most sought after metals, 178 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: they make up less than point zero three percent of 179 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: the Earth's crust. 180 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: Doctor Buner explained that the abundance doesn't always correlate to 181 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: what is most used, and metals are a non renewable resource. 182 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: What we have is all we got. 183 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 3: At some point, we're going to run out of precious metals, 184 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 3: so there are lots of research fronts looking to move 185 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: chemistry away from using precious metals and into using things 186 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: like iron and titanium and vanadium. 187 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: Okay, so now that you've laid it out, you know, 188 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 2: just looking for something shiny doesn't always indicate that it 189 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: is metal, and the amount available to us is variable 190 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: depending on which element we're talking about. But how do 191 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: we know for sure that something is metallic? 192 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: Well, one great way to figure out if something is 193 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: metallic is using our handy dandy periodic table. Like we've 194 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: said in previous episodes, the periodic table is not random. 195 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: It's arranged in a very specific way, and an element's 196 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: position on the periodic table can give us clues. And 197 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: this holds true for metals. Okay, so pull out your 198 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: periodic table. Right now, we'll pause and wait for you 199 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: to pull up a tab for you to look at it. Okay, 200 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: So you have your periodic table, and going from the 201 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: top right to the bottom left, there is an increase 202 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: in metallic character of elements. So it goes from non 203 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: metals in the top right. So that's helium, neon, argon 204 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: and all them boron, silicon, germanium, arsenic, and antimony are 205 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: all what are called metaloids. Metaloids are in between conductive 206 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: and non conductive, so we call them semiconductors, and you've 207 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: probably heard that word before, but we'll talk about semiconductors 208 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: more in an upcoming lab. Sure you stay tuned. And 209 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: as you get down to the bottom and left of 210 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: the periodic table, everything to the left of the metaloids 211 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: is a metal, and the farther left you go, the 212 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: more metallic character the element has. 213 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 2: So tt I feel like you've really helped me understand this. 214 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: I'm looking at the periodic table. Everything to the right, 215 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 2: those are like gases and other non metals. There's this 216 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: diagonal stripe and those are things that are in between 217 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 2: non metal and metal, and so they're semi and you're 218 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: calling those metaloids and that's that diagonal stripe to the 219 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: left of that stripe, which is Yes, the bulk of 220 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 2: things on this periodic table, those are metals. And the 221 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: more left you are, the further Beyonce pushed you, the 222 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: more metallic character you have. And those metallic characters are 223 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: being able to conduct electricity, being able to conduct heat, 224 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: having a luster, so on and so on. 225 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, should we rename the periodic table to Beyonce's periodic table? Mm? 226 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: Where would Sasha Fierce be on the day? What happened 227 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: to her? We haven't seen her in san Bring her back? Okay? 228 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: So I feel like we have a really good grasp 229 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: on what metal is and the different kinds of metals. 230 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: So I think what we want to hit now is 231 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: like why should we care? Right? 232 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: Metals are used in every aspect of our lives, Like, 233 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: if you just stop and look around you right now, 234 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: you're likely touching or being touched by metal in some way. 235 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: And metal has the ability to take on so many 236 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: different forms depending on the treatment. So like, you know, 237 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: the metal that you might have in a button on 238 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: your clothes is different from the metal in a soda can, 239 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: or different from the metal that's supporting a bridge, and 240 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,599 Speaker 1: it's all because of whatever chemical processes or heat treatments 241 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: or anything in between that metal is put through to 242 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: give it those specific properties. 243 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 3: When we think about metals that are important in technology, 244 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: there are lots of different metals that are used in batteries, 245 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 3: and there's also lots of metals used in catalytic converters 246 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 3: in cars, and so that's a big push. 247 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: So in your car, a catalytic converter converts toxins into 248 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: less harmful byproducts like water, vapor, and carbon dioxide. And 249 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: catalytic converters actually use three precious metals, platinum, rodium, and palladium, 250 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: which is why a lot of people get their catalytic 251 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: converters stolen from their cars and why they're so expensive 252 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: to replace. One application we want to draw attention to 253 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: is tech because a property unique to metals like zakia 254 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: you mentioned is their electrical conductivity. The reason why metal 255 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: conducts electricity so much better than non metals is because 256 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: their electrons can move freely between atoms. So, if you 257 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: remember from last week's episode, an atom, the nucleus is 258 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: made up of neutrons and protons and then spinning around 259 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: that nucleus is electrons and metals they can move all around, 260 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what you need to create current, which 261 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: is what we use for electricity. So those electrons are 262 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: moving around and they provide power for light, power, for 263 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: your computer power, for anything that requires electricity. You need 264 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: electrons moving and metals do that really well. And one 265 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: of those metals that's commonly used is copper. 266 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: And we know that copper is used for all sorts 267 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 3: of things in copper wire and for transport of electronics 268 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 3: sort of stuff, and so those are really important in 269 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: technology in ways that I very rarely think about. 270 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: Also, aluminum and nickel are used in a lot of 271 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: semiconductor chips and batteries. Now that dural cell copper top 272 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: makes sense exactly. 273 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: There's another part of the periodic table that we didn't 274 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: talk about yet, but it's a great time to bring 275 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: it back up. So okay, go back to your tab 276 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: that has the periodic table, and if you look at 277 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: the bottom, you should see two rows that are detached 278 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: from the rest of the table. And those are called 279 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: rare earth metals. And they're called this not just because 280 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: there isn't a lot of them, but because they're extremely 281 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: difficult to mind. But they're really great to use because 282 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: they have these really great properties, Like they are used 283 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: as catalysts, they're used in a lot of electrical and 284 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: magnetic and luminescent devices. 285 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: All those properties sound great and we've been using them 286 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: tt So when we think about the explosion of technology 287 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: in general, the invention of the cell phone, the computer, 288 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: laptops over the last twenty years, I'm sure with that 289 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: explosion of products, there has to have been an increasing 290 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: demand on those elements exactly. And then rechargeable batteries that's 291 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: like a new thing relatively to you know, our world. 292 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: Rechargeable batteries are new and they are made with rare 293 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: earth compounds, and so the demand for batteries that recharge 294 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: goes up, like as we have these. 295 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: New inventions like the cell phone and the computer, and 296 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: also with electrical vehicles. So you know, now electric cars 297 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: are becoming more and more of a thing. I've been 298 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: seeing a lot more teslas, a lot more hybrid cars 299 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: on the road. Those batteries that are powering those electric 300 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: cars are made of a lot of rare earth and nickel, 301 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: and so they're super important to keep pushing us into 302 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: this technological age pushing us forward so we can move 303 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: away from fossil fuels and use electricity to power our lives. 304 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: This is such a good point because now you know, 305 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: it makes me think about this tradeoff. Just last week 306 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 2: we talked about nuclear energy with doctor Snowden, and this 307 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: is a perfect example of these types of trade offs. 308 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: So on one hand, you're reducing the use of non 309 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: renewables like gas, right and oil, but on the other hand, 310 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: you're increasing the demand for rare earth metals to build 311 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: the electric cars that we think are solving the other problem. Yeah, 312 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: vicious vicious cycle. 313 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, such a good point. Another downside to rare earth 314 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: metals is that it's really difficult to get rare earths 315 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: out of the Earth, and so it costs a lot 316 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: of money, and it's inefficient, and some of the byproducts 317 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: of mining rare earth are toxic materials because you're also 318 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: pulling up uranium as you're pulling up these rare earth 319 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: metals that we want to use, and as we know 320 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: from the nuclear episode, uranium is not something you really 321 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: want to be around like that. Another issue with rare 322 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: earth is that they're not only not abundant in the 323 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: Earth's crust, but it's not like there's an even distribution 324 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: of rare earths all over the Earth. Most rare earths 325 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: are in China, and China produces about ninety percent of 326 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: the supply, which means that they control the industry. 327 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 2: So basically, there's no free lunch when it comes to 328 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: earth metals. They have all these great properties, but there 329 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 2: are a lot of other aspects to kind of wade 330 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: through when we're considering how we get them. 331 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: It goes back to what doctor Snowden was saying in 332 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: the last episode, is that there are risks to everything, 333 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: and those are things you just have to weigh out 334 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: because it will help us if we're able to move 335 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: move towards using electricity to power our lives. But there 336 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: are some trade offs that we're trying to reconcile so 337 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: that we can make sure that the advances that we're 338 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: making aren't biting us in the butt later. 339 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 2: So, considering the uneven distribution of metals, I would imagine 340 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: that that uneven distribution is subject to a lot of 341 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: our geopolitical influences right in the world right now. And 342 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 2: so I know recently I've been seeing a lot about 343 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: a nickel shortage in the news as we consider the 344 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 2: war between Russia and Ukraine. So we asked Kate to 345 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 2: tell us what we need to know about nickel. 346 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: I think the thing that loss of nickel is most 347 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 3: worried about because it's used in batteries. Nickel hydride batteries 348 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: are used in cars, and so I think that's where 349 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 3: the biggest worry comes from with a run on nickel supplies. 350 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 3: There are lots of different places where there are nickel minds. 351 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: Right, So nickel is really really important when we're thinking 352 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: about batteries for electric vehicles and pretty much all batteries 353 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: that are rechargeable. As the battery research advances, they want 354 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: more and more nickel. In batteries. You have a cathode 355 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: and an anode, and the cathode at this point is 356 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 1: about eighty percent nickel, and so we need nickel very badly. 357 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 3: If you lose a significant percentage of that, then it's 358 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 3: going to be a lot harder to keep making nickel 359 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 3: hydride batteries at the level that's needed to keep producing cars. 360 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: And this is a problem because Russia produces twenty percent 361 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: of the world's highest purity nickel. 362 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 2: So Russia invaded Ukraine on February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, 363 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: and on that day the cost of nickel per ton 364 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 2: was twenty four thousand, seven hundred and sixteen dollars. Now 365 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 2: that's twenty four thousand, seven hundred and sixteen dollars. Stay 366 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 2: with me on March eighth, and remember February only had 367 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: twenty eight days. Baby on March eighth, twenty twenty two, 368 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: nickel was eighty thousand dollars per ton. That's a big 369 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 2: deal because as we advance with technology and the needs 370 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 2: for electric vehicles, more and more nickel is required. So 371 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: if the cost of nicolas so high, it may mean 372 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: that the cost to manufacturer the battery is super high. 373 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: So now we're looking at access to electric vehicles, which 374 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: can reduce other costs and can reduce other impacts being 375 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: cost prohibitive, even more cost prohibitive than they already are. Right, 376 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 2: so that electric car goes from being just a little 377 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: bit expensive to only Bill Gates can afford it. Okay, 378 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: So doctor Buttner has taken us through what metals are, 379 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: where they are, and what they're used for in tech. 380 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 2: But when we come back, we're going to talk about 381 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 2: metals in the biological space. 382 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: We're back. 383 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: We're talking to doctor Kate Butner all about metals. But 384 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 2: before we jump in next week, we're talking to you 385 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: about maternal health with Simon Taate. 386 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: Let's get back to the lab. Now that we have 387 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: gotten the load down on metals in tech, Zekiah, you're 388 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: gonna have to hold my hand through metals in biology. 389 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: You know this is so interesting because when I think 390 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,959 Speaker 1: about this, you know, you blew my mind. You said, Hey, 391 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: did you know sodium in potasium were metals? And I'm like, uh, 392 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: I think about sodium potassium so much from a biological perspective, 393 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: and I think we have to level set first. Everybody 394 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: should know we need metals in our body to live. 395 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: And if you're a Dope Labs listener, you already know this. 396 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: If we think back to our lab with doctor Alice 397 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: Lichtenstein where she talked about nutrition and the vitamin and 398 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: micronutrient requirements, we already knew that metals were important. So 399 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: I think the first thing is understanding that sometimes metals 400 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: get a bad rep in the biological context. And there's 401 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: something I was reading from plant scientists. So the botanists 402 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: are here informing us, and they're saying, listen, you really 403 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: got to think about metals in context. Too few and 404 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: you have nutritional deficiencies. Too many metals, and then you 405 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: have toxicity. I once accidentally swallowed a piece of aluminum 406 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: for when I was in summer camp. 407 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 2: You're still here, so you were in the sweet spot 408 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: of metal homeostasis. 409 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: It was on my apple sauce lid, and I was 410 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: trying to open it with my mouth and I pulled 411 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: it off and then I just inhaled and it went 412 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: down my throat and I think about that piece of 413 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: aluminum pretty regularly. 414 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 2: Well, the good news is that your body needs a 415 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 2: lot of metals. 416 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: It's always been my body of favor. I ate the 417 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: apple sauce too. 418 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: So now we understand that there is the concentration that 419 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 2: we need of various different metals for us to have 420 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: proper bodily function. And so even though nickel and these 421 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: other metals are important for technologies, they're also important for 422 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 2: our bodies. 423 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: Okay, So where are we getting the metal from. 424 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 2: That's a good question, and most of it is coming 425 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: from our foods are in plants, Metals are in other 426 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: animals that eat plants, right, and in places where people 427 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: aren't able to eat foods that are rich in metals. 428 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 2: They often have to fortify foods. So metals are so 429 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: important that we add them to our food products. So 430 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: if you think about fortified cereals, Raisin brand is an example. 431 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 2: It has iron. What about cocoa puffs? Probably not. I 432 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: won't say that. I won't say that it's not good 433 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 2: for you. I don't know that. I just know it 434 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: has cocoa and that's not a metal. 435 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: I'll check the periodic. 436 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: There are some metals that are super important from a 437 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 2: nutritional perspective that we can think of immediately, like calcium, 438 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: which is important for your teeth and bones, right, Iron 439 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 2: which is important for transporting oxygen, and we can talk 440 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: about that in a little bit more detail. Magnesium, potassium, 441 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 2: but you get those things. Calcium is naturally in yogurt 442 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 2: and milk and fish and in juices that get fortified 443 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: with calcium, right because they know kids are drinking juices 444 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: and they need a lot of calcium as they are 445 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 2: growing and building their teeth, and so we add calcium 446 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: to the food product. 447 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 3: You have lots of iron in your body that's carrying 448 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 3: your oxygen around in proteins like hemoglobin, and you guys 449 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: talked about that in the episode on the Impossible Meats, 450 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: where that color change is coming from that iron in 451 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 3: your proteins. And so that iron is really important because 452 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: it's what's binding to oxygen and it's what's letting you 453 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 3: have respiration, and so in biological systems, iron is very important, 454 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 3: like we already talked about for transporting, and you have 455 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 3: different proteins that very carefully control your iron and move 456 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: your iron alter your body. 457 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 2: Right, iron is very important for carrying oxygen. Seventy percent 458 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 2: of your body's iron is found in your red blood cells. 459 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 2: What Yeah, that are in your blood and in your muscle. 460 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: So if you think about hemoglobin, that's iron carrying oxygen 461 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: from your lungs to your various tissues in your body 462 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 2: via blood, So via those red blood cells. Wow, okay. 463 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: And similarly iron is involved in your muscles, so myoglobin 464 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: it's a accepting oxygen in the muscles and storing it. 465 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: Hmm. 466 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: So it's super important for living because you need oxygen 467 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 2: to all those tissues. 468 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: Right, So is that part of the reason maybe that 469 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: when you are iron deficient you might feel weak and 470 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: lacking energy because your body's not getting all of that 471 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: oxygen that the iron is supposed to be transporting all 472 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: over your body. 473 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 2: You got it. 474 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: There are things like manganese that's really important in lots 475 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 3: of different areas, and so manganese is important in creating 476 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 3: oxygen in the oxygen evolving cluster. In plants when they're 477 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 3: doing photosynthesis. You need metals to carry out photosynthesis. 478 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 2: And I think that's really important. We've been talking about 479 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: human health, but remember biological systems. That's across everything, So 480 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: plants need metals too. 481 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: There's things like calcium that you probably don't really think 482 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 3: of in its metallic form, but it's a metal, and 483 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 3: you know that that's really important in your bones and 484 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 3: you have these calcium phosphate things for biomineralization. So your 485 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 3: biology is creating minerals to make your tea than your bones, 486 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 3: and to make shells for sea animals and all those 487 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: sorts of things, because crustaceans are important. And there's also 488 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 3: things like zinc is really important in lots of different proteins, 489 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: both to just hold the proteins in the form the 490 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 3: structure that they need to have, as well as to 491 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 3: carry out catalytic reactions. So to make sure that all 492 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 3: your biological processes can happen. 493 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 2: And so now when we think about things that are 494 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 2: really important, like the genome, when we want to understand 495 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: all the genes, there is a study of the metalone 496 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: to understand how metals are distributed in different cellular compartments 497 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 2: in the body. Wow, in biological systems. 498 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: I feel like our episode on vitamins and nutrients really 499 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: gave me a peek into how important these vitamins are. 500 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: But when we're thinking about them as metals and their 501 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: roles in our body, I had no idea that there 502 00:26:51,720 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: was the metalon So now so I have a lot 503 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: more questions, and one of them being if we have 504 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: so much metal in our bodies that help us. Are 505 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: there metals that are used for medicinal purposes? 506 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: Yes, metals have been used to treat disease for a 507 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 2: long time. Okay, well before what we consider you know, 508 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 2: modern Western medicine. The Egyptian and Chinese doctors are like, 509 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: been there, done that. That's the first footnote. Okay, moving 510 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 2: forward in time, in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, we 511 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: started seeing metals being used as anti cancer drugs, and 512 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: so we saw a big boom in this in the 513 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 2: sixties in metal based cancer drugs that were based on 514 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: some of the platinum group metals, in platinum group metal 515 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 2: complexes like cisplatin, carboplatin, oxalo platin, and then we're starting 516 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 2: to see other compounds like gold, titanium, copper, cobalt, vanadium, 517 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: all of those are starting to get used or being 518 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 2: explored as anti cancer therapeutics. So Ttu really raised a 519 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: good point saying can metals be used to help us 520 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 2: because we use them in our bodies. Because they're used 521 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 2: in different biological systems, they're also being used by things 522 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: that sometimes harmless, So you can almost weaponize metals against bacteria. 523 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 2: Oh really Yeah. One of those metals that's really useful 524 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 2: for this is silver. 525 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 3: Silver is definitely known to have antimicrobial properties, and so 526 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: it's in lots of clothing. There are studies that look 527 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 3: at putting it in dental implants to keep and so 528 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 3: we do a lab in one of my classes using 529 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 3: bacteria that Zechia collected and studied to see how silver 530 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 3: complexes can inhibit growth of bacteria. I know that silver 531 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 3: is used as nanoparticles often, and so there are silver 532 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: nanoparticles embedded in lots of fabrics now to try and 533 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: make them not smell bad in your workout clothes when 534 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 3: you have bacteria growing from lots of sweat. 535 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 2: So, Kate told us a lot about all these metals, 536 00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: but I learned from you more about metals in a 537 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: technological context. 538 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I learned a lot about the biology from you. 539 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 2: And even though I thought it was important only know 540 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 2: half of the information. Now I feel like we've really 541 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: got to get this metal thing figured out. And that's 542 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: one of the things that Cake's working on in her lab, 543 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: trying to figure out how we can leverage the metals 544 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: that are actually more abundant. So that was our question. 545 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: Is there some type of shift to rely on one 546 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: metal versus another? Can't we find good substitutes. 547 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 3: There's a lot of push to move towards more abundant 548 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: metals and more environmentally friendly metals. I think on industrial 549 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: scales that comes a little slower, and it comes often 550 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: from regulations requiring those things, and until those things exist industrially, 551 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: that's less pushed for because they want to do the 552 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: thing that's most efficient, and so using a costly metal 553 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 3: isn't as big of a deal because they can find 554 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 3: that money and do it, and so we work with 555 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: specifically titanium and vanadium. So what we're doing is looking 556 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 3: at the ways that nature has protected iron and other 557 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 3: hydrolysis prone metals from reacting with water and kept their reactivity, 558 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: and so we want to use those same things to 559 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 3: get the reactivity that we want from titanium and vanadium 560 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 3: and protect them from unwanted reactions with water. 561 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 2: And that feels so important. Tt It's important in so 562 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: many ways, Like you were saying, we have to really 563 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: consider this as we continue to think about advancing technologies 564 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 2: and the things that we're currently relying on that need 565 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 2: these rare metals. 566 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, because, like we said earlier, all the metal we 567 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: have is all the metal we've got people, So we've 568 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: got to figure out a way to use it efficiently, 569 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: and not just efficiently like oh, we're using a specific 570 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: amount and it gets its the most output, but also 571 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: getting it efficiently, selling it in a way that is 572 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: efficient and cost efficient and everything in between. Because it's 573 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: clear that metal is that girl. 574 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 2: She's that girl. 575 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: All right, y'all, it's time for one thing, Nikiya, what 576 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: is your one thing this week? 577 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: My one thing this week is a new docu series 578 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: about an NBA hopeful determined to take control of his 579 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: journey to the NBA. It's called The Long Game, Bigger 580 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: Than Basketball, and it's on Apple TV Plus. Well, my 581 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: one thing is also related to sports, and I'm not 582 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 2: even really a huge. 583 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: Sportsman, but it's Winning Time on HBO Max. It is 584 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: so beautifully done. It follows the story of Magic Johnson 585 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: from when he graduated from Michigan State and started with 586 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: the Lakers. It is art. It is seriously art. I 587 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: really enjoy the production quality. Everything is just chef's kiss 588 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: and it really pulls you in. I love the storytelling. 589 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: They're doing an awesome job and I am there every 590 00:31:51,920 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: single week ready for the next episode. That's it for 591 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: Lab sixty one. What you think? We love hearing from you, 592 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: So make sure you give us a call at two 593 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: zero two five six seven seven zero two eight and 594 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: tell us what you thought. Or you can call and 595 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: tell us about a LAB that you think that we 596 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: should do. We love hearing from you, so give us 597 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: a call at two zero two five six seven seven 598 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: zero two eight. And don't forget. There's so much more 599 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: for you to dig into on our website. There'll be 600 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: a cheat cheat for today's lab. Additional links and resources 601 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: in the show notes. Plus, you can sign up for 602 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: our newsletter check it out at Dope lastpodcast dot com. 603 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: Special thanks to our friend and guest expert, doctor Kate Buttner. 604 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: You can follow Kate's lab on Twitter at Buttner Lab. 605 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: That's b U E T T n E r. 606 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: L A B. 607 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: And you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at 608 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: Dope Labs Podcast. 609 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: TT's on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore T. 610 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: S h O, and you can find Zakiya at z 611 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from 612 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: Mega Owned Media Group. Our producers are Jenny Rattlett Mast 613 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: and Lydia Smith of wave Runner Studios. Our associate producer 614 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: from Mega oh Media is Brianna Garrett. Editing in sound 615 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: design by Rob Smerciak, mixing by Hannes Brown. Original music 616 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugier from Spotify, 617 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: Executive producer Corin Gilliard and creative producer Miguel Contreras. 618 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Shirley Ramos, Jess Borrison, Jasmine afifikmu Ilolia, 619 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: Till krat Key, and Brian Marquis. Executive producers from Mega 620 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 2: Own Media Group are US T T Show, Dia and 621 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 2: Zakiah Wattley.