Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Hi Elsey. I'm in New York City and
Speaker 1: I'm swety. I'm a sweaty Betty. I went to the
Speaker 1: wrong studio this morning.
Speaker 2: Not your fault.
Speaker 1: I've been all over town, up and downtown. It's only
Speaker 1: two o'clock in the afternoon and I've already changed my
Speaker 1: underwear twice.
Speaker 2: Great getting a little puma down there.
Speaker 1: It's a little moist over here in New York. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I'm only here for three more days. I'm on
Speaker 1: my transition to my work. First I come to New York,
Speaker 1: then I go farther east, and then I go farther east.
Speaker 2: That's what we did when we went to New yorka
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 3: We like stopped in New York and saw some Broadway
Speaker 3: shows with a friend, and then we, you know, pieced
Speaker 3: out to Spain for a week, which was I know.
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing any Broadway shows this week, but I've
Speaker 1: been invited to a couple. But I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: pop into my favorite restaurants since i'll be out of
Speaker 1: town and see all my friends that i haven't seen.
Speaker 1: I like to make my presence known when I am
Speaker 1: in town because I'm gone so much. I'll be out
Speaker 1: of town for eight weeks now, and Doug is going
Speaker 1: to sleep away camp for a month where he's going
Speaker 1: to learn how to come when I call him.
Speaker 2: And not beyond everything hopefully.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's yeah, my baby, my baby, I love my baby.
Speaker 3: Well, I know you'll miss him, but we are very
Speaker 3: excited to see you move off to my Orca and
Speaker 3: have some fun for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can tune into my Instagram to watch me
Speaker 1: with my nieces and nephews while I'm corrupting them perfection.
Speaker 1: I'm reading a book right now called Hamnet.
Speaker 3: I've heard that's good. It's on my little to read list.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm halfway through. It's nice. I like things that
Speaker 1: are set like centuries ago, so yeah, I have to
Speaker 1: you know, m.
Speaker 3: H, I'm reading something right now that's set a couple
Speaker 3: centuries ago, and like it's a little bit of like
Speaker 3: an unlikable main character, like like that kind of a
Speaker 3: witch and a bitch like yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that. Though I know it's not often you
Speaker 1: have an unlikable main character, but I yeah, sometimes prefer that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's called Fine Shade with a y Chelsea.
Speaker 2: We have a very fun guest day.
Speaker 1: Who oh my god, I'm excited. He's so ridiculous.
Speaker 3: He's so funny, and tonight is the season finale of.
Speaker 1: His show, season finale of Hacks. Everybody, he created Hacks,
Speaker 1: which is a great show with Jean Smart and Hannah
Speaker 1: einbeinder On Max and our friend and guest today is
Speaker 1: the person responsible for it? Well, he and his wife
Speaker 1: are responsible for it and bestie and bestie. Yeah, oh
Speaker 1: that's right, him and his wife and their best friend.
Speaker 1: They're a threatfle Please welcome Paul W Downs. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you're so ridiculous. Paul W have you ever been on
Speaker 1: a zoom before? We have what aren't you? Aren't you
Speaker 1: a showrunner?
Speaker 4: I am, but we don't usually have echo issues.
Speaker 1: Just to fill our listeners in, Paul W went from
Speaker 1: his closet or some sort of bunker and it was
Speaker 1: all it was all wood, so there was an echo.
Speaker 1: And then we told him he had maybe if we
Speaker 1: could get into bed or something. He didn't want to
Speaker 1: do that. We offered you to get into bed, and
Speaker 1: instead you went around the corner into some is this
Speaker 1: a birthing room that you're in? Now?
Speaker 4: This is a bedroom. This is the bedroom. There is
Speaker 4: a bed, but here's the thing. It's a laptop, so
Speaker 4: I have to hold the laptop.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, I just want
Speaker 1: me to be as comfortable as possible, because great, you're
Speaker 1: stressing me out.
Speaker 4: Oh no, don't get stressed.
Speaker 1: Paul congratulations on season three of the Very Funny, very
Speaker 1: Successful Hacks on HBO. Max. Well we call it Max now, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I suppose so legally we must, Yeah, yes, we must.
Speaker 1: How has this experience been because Okay, to fill our
Speaker 1: listeners in, Paul writes with his wife Lucia. Lucia and
Speaker 1: you guys came up with this, right, we did.
Speaker 5: We came up with it with our very best friend,
Speaker 5: Jen Statsky, who's our our third showrunner.
Speaker 1: Okay, right, I have a very good friend from high
Speaker 1: school named Jen Satsky.
Speaker 4: No way, yeah, So, and did you go to high
Speaker 4: school in New Jersey?
Speaker 1: I did Livingston High School. So tell Jen.
Speaker 4: I'm from New Jersey. My parents are from Randolph and Dover.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: First, all I should say I should have started with
Speaker 5: huge fans. But also I've always thought you could be
Speaker 5: in my family. You just I just get the vibe
Speaker 5: you'd fit right in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very I'm a very Jersey girl at heart.
Speaker 1: That's really where the edge of the edges come. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so are you right?
Speaker 4: I'm a Jersey girl too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Would you compare yourself to Snookie at all?
Speaker 4: No, I'm not a snooky.
Speaker 5: I'm more of Martha Stewart. I gotta say, you pick
Speaker 5: a Jersey girl that I feel is yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Do too, because she's got the right amount of bitch.
Speaker 1: Well she's got an extra amount of bitch, which I respect.
Speaker 4: I do too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I got heavy on the bitch and light on the
Speaker 4: duck face.
Speaker 1: She's light on the pleasant trees. Yeah, she doesn't care.
Speaker 1: She doesn't have time. Every time I see her, she's like,
Speaker 1: who are you with, Chelsea? Who brought who's your plus one?
Speaker 1: That's all she cares about. And I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: like I like that. She cuts to the chase, like
Speaker 1: I don't want to say it's so hot today either
Speaker 1: to anyone, you know. Yeah, it's embarrassing. Okay, So tell
Speaker 1: us because I know that you said you said you
Speaker 1: were quoted as saying that women are funnier than men.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: That's a good thing for men to start saying, you know,
Speaker 1: just start practicing that agreed, and is that why you
Speaker 1: wanted to do a sh show senator on a female comedian.
Speaker 5: Yes, we were talking about how my first, the first
Speaker 5: live stand up show, like real stand up show I
Speaker 5: ever saw was Paula Pundstone in Morriston, New Jersey, and
Speaker 5: there were just like so many stand ups that we
Speaker 5: were talking about that never got the same du that
Speaker 5: a ton of their male counterparts did. And we were
Speaker 5: just like, it's interesting, especially, you know, because I met
Speaker 5: my wife and Jen in New York at the UCB
Speaker 5: and we were like, you know, part of that alt
Speaker 5: comedy scene, which also.
Speaker 1: Are you I'm sorry, are you guys a throutble?
Speaker 4: We're not atle sexually? We do not. The three of
Speaker 4: us don't have sex.
Speaker 1: Okay, just checking, I'm just clarifying, But that's good to know.
Speaker 1: So is Jen Does she have a partner slash lover?
Speaker 4: She does? She has a husband actually.
Speaker 1: Okay, because that's very relevant to this conversation.
Speaker 4: She does have a husband.
Speaker 5: He would probably be fine if we, you know, became sexual,
Speaker 5: but we're.
Speaker 1: Not, okay, which we're not. Don't count your chickens before
Speaker 1: they hatch. You never know what's down on the Pike.
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, especially right way.
Speaker 1: But I like the way I used it.
Speaker 5: I did too, I did too, So not a throtfle
Speaker 5: but yeah, we we just were like in this all
Speaker 5: comedy scene also where there was a little bit of
Speaker 5: like what's cool comedy, what's not cool comedy? You know,
Speaker 5: and we were interested in exploring what it was like
Speaker 5: for like a younger comedian who maybe thought someone like
Speaker 5: Debora Vance was a hack not a cool comedy person,
Speaker 5: what it would be like for her to understand like
Speaker 5: all of the all of the indignities that person suffered
Speaker 5: to like pave the way for other comedians like her.
Speaker 5: So when we thought of it, we wrote an email
Speaker 5: to each other that was just like the log line
Speaker 5: of the show, and we could not stop thinking about
Speaker 5: it anytime we hung it out, we talked about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is such a great idea for a
Speaker 1: show to look at something that way. I would have
Speaker 1: thought in the opposite direction, like to prove this tough,
Speaker 1: tough bad guy was like really did have a heart.
Speaker 1: But that's also part of the story too with gens
Speaker 1: Smarts character, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a very person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a like a love affair between Hannah
Speaker 1: and Jean Smart.
Speaker 5: It is a love affair, and we actually talk about
Speaker 5: it that way. We talk about the thaw all the time.
Speaker 4: Ah goe, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So you did. You never did stand up when you
Speaker 1: were at UCB.
Speaker 4: I did do stand up. I did. I did mostly
Speaker 4: sketch an improv, but I did do stand up.
Speaker 5: And actually it was because I did stand up and
Speaker 5: I found it a lonely and b like what I
Speaker 5: was doing was like a lot of like character.
Speaker 4: I would often be.
Speaker 5: Like, hey, I have some tech, and people at clubs
Speaker 5: would be like what. And now I feel like there's
Speaker 5: a lot of tech in stand up, Like you go
Speaker 5: to a show and it's like power points and tons
Speaker 5: of stuff.
Speaker 4: But I don't know it just it didn't feel like
Speaker 4: the right place.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're fucking talking about. I have
Speaker 1: never seen a PowerPoint presentation at a stand up show.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand differentiation between alternative and stand up
Speaker 1: because Hanna is alternative. I would describe Hanna as comedy
Speaker 1: as alternative, which I just did in an article at
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal or something like that for her,
Speaker 1: because because she is alternative, like she has tech.
Speaker 4: Yes, she does have tech. That's right, she does. That's
Speaker 4: a great Yes, she did a perfect example of it.
Speaker 1: Paul W. Do you think Hannah's character is written after
Speaker 1: you is like loosely based on you.
Speaker 4: No, She's the closest to Jen and the reason.
Speaker 5: I mean, there is parts of myself and Lucia and
Speaker 5: Jen in the character, and also parts of us at
Speaker 5: Deborah as well.
Speaker 4: Again, I'm a Martha.
Speaker 5: Stewart, and I feel like the biggest similarity is that
Speaker 5: Jen Early, when Twitter was like just popping off, she
Speaker 5: became very successful on Twitter. I do know, can you
Speaker 5: be successful? A lot of people followed her, and she
Speaker 5: got hired essentially. I mean, she had a great packet,
Speaker 5: I'm sure, but she was hired to write for Jimmy Fallon,
Speaker 5: and I think part of her discovery was because she
Speaker 5: was so well liked her comedy. Her jokes were so
Speaker 5: good on Twitter, So that part of the origin story
Speaker 5: of the character.
Speaker 4: Is borrowed from Jen's life. But there's a little bit
Speaker 4: of all of us in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's nice to have a team of
Speaker 1: three when you're doing anything creative because that gives you
Speaker 1: two heads to bounce ideas off of, so you can
Speaker 1: really like check the box of you know, because sometimes
Speaker 1: when you're working with yourself, you always have to bounce
Speaker 1: it off of someone else before you can put it
Speaker 1: live or write it down. Because I do. Actually that's
Speaker 1: not true. I don't, but I but I do. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I do. If I'm like on the fence about something
Speaker 1: I know, bounce it off a couple of people to
Speaker 1: get the reaction. All I usually need is one confirmation.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I was right, that's funny, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you say it out loud to see if there's a reaction,
Speaker 1: and if there's not, you walk away, you know, with
Speaker 1: your head between your legs.
Speaker 5: Right or like me, because I've continued to do stand
Speaker 5: up to a certain degree, not enough to be maybe
Speaker 5: considered one. But I will keep doing a bit that
Speaker 5: doesn't work. If I feel like it works for you,
Speaker 5: truly yours, I just keep doing it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think that's funny. If I do something
Speaker 1: twice and two times it doesn't work, I don't do
Speaker 1: it again.
Speaker 4: That's probably the way to do it.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think there are any rules to anything.
Speaker 1: There really aren't the goal I think for every creative
Speaker 1: And you tell me if you disagree in any way
Speaker 1: is to be confident in their with they're creating. To
Speaker 1: have confidence in your creative ability. And when you're confident
Speaker 1: in what you're creating like that, you can smell that,
Speaker 1: and when you're not, you can smell it. So if
Speaker 1: you're on stage doing something that doesn't work and you're
Speaker 1: confident about it, it will still work.
Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, I think that's true.
Speaker 5: I don't lose an audience because I think it's funny.
Speaker 5: It does tickle me, and I do think that's something that.
Speaker 1: Please use that expression on this podcast, that it tickles you. No,
Speaker 1: it's like that's a personal request.
Speaker 4: Oh good to know. You don't like to be tickled?
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I don't like that. I don't like
Speaker 1: the word tickle. I find it very molesty. You know,
Speaker 1: get a tickle. It's like, no, thank you, I'm not
Speaker 1: coming to get a tickle. Or tickle your fancy is
Speaker 1: another expression that I could do without, but I use
Speaker 1: it all the time in spite of it because it's
Speaker 1: so stupid. This might tickle your fancy, but it's evocative.
Speaker 1: It's very evocative.
Speaker 4: But no, I think you're right.
Speaker 5: You have to be confident and you have to enjoy
Speaker 5: it yourself. That's one of the things that having three
Speaker 5: of us it is good because we're so confident because
Speaker 5: if we can make one of the other three laugh,
Speaker 5: My favorite audience are the two of them, and so
Speaker 5: we're constantly trying to make each other laugh. But it's
Speaker 5: also great because we have a tiebreaker, So that's also
Speaker 5: there's a really good part of the three in creative
Speaker 5: collaboration because of that too.
Speaker 1: So you guys want a bunch of Emmys. You went
Speaker 1: on your honeymoon, Is this correct, and then you flew
Speaker 1: back straight to the Emmys.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we we weirdly because because of when the
Speaker 5: Emmys were happening, we did our honeymoon before our wedding,
Speaker 5: so we got married.
Speaker 4: I mean, the truth, the true story is this.
Speaker 1: We don't know if I could get it up to
Speaker 1: do that, like do it in reverse, I might oh,
Speaker 1: or maybe I would do the honeymoon and then leave
Speaker 1: before the marriage.
Speaker 5: It was great to do in reverse because I'm like, no, well,
Speaker 5: we we actually found out like eleven days before our
Speaker 5: honeymoon that she was two months pregnant, which we did
Speaker 5: not plan.
Speaker 1: The baby, and the baby was yours and.
Speaker 4: The baby was mine as far as I know.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, obviously that's something to look into, m hm.
Speaker 5: So we went on our honeymoon, we got married, and
Speaker 5: then we came back and like four days later were
Speaker 5: the Emmys.
Speaker 4: So it was a really crazy month.
Speaker 1: And then you won Emmys. How many Emmys did you
Speaker 1: win that night?
Speaker 4: I only won one? Did she had to do that night?
Speaker 4: Gene won one?
Speaker 5: I mean there were there were there were a few
Speaker 5: emis for the show, but I personally took home one.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Jeane Smart. Tell me about your experience
Speaker 1: with because Jean Smart lost her husband at the beginning
Speaker 1: of this series. I remember Handa was telling me that
Speaker 1: and then she had this huge resurgence at the same time,
Speaker 1: which I find those things kind of coincide in people's
Speaker 1: lives all the time, right, there could be a big
Speaker 1: loss and then there could be like a major shift
Speaker 1: in a different area. So tell us about choosing Jean
Speaker 1: Smart for the role, Like, how did you decide?
Speaker 5: Well, we wrote the part without anybody in mind, and
Speaker 5: we had written the script and we made a list
Speaker 5: of people that we thought would be good for it,
Speaker 5: and she was honestly at the top of the list
Speaker 5: because we wanted someone who could do like that her
Speaker 5: heartfelt moments in the show, more dramatic parts, but also
Speaker 5: we needed her to be a believable stand up and
Speaker 5: deliver a joke. And there's not a ton of women
Speaker 5: that are that age that we thought would be perfect
Speaker 5: for it, and so we sent it to her and
Speaker 5: she met with us and said, you know, I always
Speaker 5: wanted to be a stand up. When I was twelve,
Speaker 5: everyone was mermaid or a princess, and I dressed as
Speaker 5: philis Diller and none of the other kids got it.
Speaker 5: But she's like, I've always wanted to do that. So
Speaker 5: it's weirdly kismet. And then a lot of weird kismet
Speaker 5: stuff kept happening.
Speaker 1: Like what else tell us? I like, will your weird
Speaker 1: kismet chit?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 5: When Jean's husband passed, we sent her flowers and they
Speaker 5: were her wedding flowers, and she's like, it's so weird.
Speaker 5: How would you have known that anemonees were my wedding
Speaker 5: flower And we had sent heed that and were just
Speaker 5: like a weird coincs. But there kept being these things
Speaker 5: that She's like, when we would write the script, she'd
Speaker 5: be like, do you know I was obsessed with Christmas
Speaker 5: and be like, no, we don't really know you that well,
Speaker 5: we're just starting the season, you know, we But there
Speaker 5: was a lot of things that were written into the
Speaker 5: show that she was like, this is as if you
Speaker 5: live in my house or you know, there's just a
Speaker 5: bunch of stuff that felt weird, you know, felt weirdly
Speaker 5: like it was it was a destined thing.
Speaker 4: She was meant for it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, your character is so fucking funny. You and Meghan.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Megan is so ridiculous. I mean, does
Speaker 1: she ever say anything serious? I'm like, every time I
Speaker 1: see her, I'm like, are you in character? Or are
Speaker 1: you I'm like, is this your a real person?
Speaker 5: He's always on, She's always on. But I have gotten
Speaker 5: some serious moments from her. And actually you'll see the
Speaker 5: season she plays some serious moments in the show.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know if I'm ready for that.
Speaker 5: I gotta tell you what she's making She's making me
Speaker 5: cry in the scene season three, it's the finale, it's
Speaker 5: season three.
Speaker 4: She was so good. I was moved and during it
Speaker 4: it was crazy. She's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's okay, that's enough about that. Now, how do
Speaker 1: you know when you are writing something and you're starring
Speaker 1: in it. I always am curious about directing and starring
Speaker 1: in your own stuff. How do you know when it's
Speaker 1: actually serving the purpose, like serving the script versus just
Speaker 1: serving your own role and and expansion of it. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: I think because being a writer on the show, like
Speaker 5: writing the show, I think I care so much more
Speaker 5: about the story than my part in the show that
Speaker 5: oftentimes I'm like, we can lose, we can lose that
Speaker 5: scene of Jimmy. I honestly often am like the one
Speaker 5: who's I just cut that, And luckily I have these
Speaker 5: other people who are like, no, keep it in. That
Speaker 5: was a funny scene. We got to keep it in.
Speaker 5: But when I'm when I'm directing, I mostly direct episodes
Speaker 5: that Jimmy isn't really in because I find that hard too.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I how you do a whole movie where
Speaker 5: you're the leader of the movie and directing the movie,
Speaker 5: and like, what do you watch playback every five minutes?
Speaker 5: And it seems or you're in a scene you're like,
Speaker 5: can we just what I need you to do?
Speaker 4: You know, in your director but.
Speaker 1: You're writing, directing, and starring in this that's a lot.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize you were also directing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I direct only a handful of the episodes.
Speaker 1: All right, we get it, we get it. You're a director,
Speaker 1: you don't have to get defense.
Speaker 2: And a showrunner.
Speaker 4: Well, no, I'm saying, I don't direct that many. I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't even. I dabble, I dabble.
Speaker 1: We have fun, and how does that work? Let me
Speaker 1: tell I want to know about like being with your spouse,
Speaker 1: working together, living together, how how does that vibe work?
Speaker 1: You have a kid now, so we do, and obviously
Speaker 1: you have to have help because if you're both working,
Speaker 1: we do we do. Whenever I think of a couple
Speaker 1: working together, I envisioned doctor Phil with his wife and
Speaker 1: the audience and think, what don't you have anything to do?
Speaker 1: You know? Like why is she sitting there listening to
Speaker 1: her fucking husband? Like, get, that's an hour she could
Speaker 1: get away from him, and she's choosing to go and
Speaker 1: listen to him. Rant But I think, I guess I'm
Speaker 1: going to answer my own question here. But then I
Speaker 1: want you to elaborate, Paul W. Because working together with
Speaker 1: a spouse in a creative space must be very stimulating, right,
Speaker 1: Like more stimulate, like being able to carry your work
Speaker 1: home with you when it is creative isn't as onerous
Speaker 1: as it is to carry your work home with you
Speaker 1: if you're a CPA or something exactly.
Speaker 4: We are in a way.
Speaker 5: We're always working, but we're never working because even when
Speaker 5: we're together and we're at a restaurant and we see
Speaker 5: a waitress who's like doing something fun, We're like, this
Speaker 5: is this is a scene?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
Speaker 5: We're constantly collecting material, but also we're never really bored
Speaker 5: because we always have something. And the thing is, because
Speaker 5: we also work on comedy together. It's about trying to
Speaker 5: make the other person laugh. So again, it's not like
Speaker 5: being a CPA or even doing something dramatic. I'm like,
Speaker 5: you know, we're not bringing home some true crime murder story,
Speaker 5: you know, and thinking about the directing of that.
Speaker 4: We're we're thinking about a better.
Speaker 1: Joke or directing the Ashley Madison documentary. Is that what
Speaker 1: you were thinking.
Speaker 4: Of saying, Yeah, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1: We're such a beautiful documentary, and what about like because
Speaker 1: it's very heartwarming the show, and so I'm always wondering,
Speaker 1: like the line, because I like I would always err
Speaker 1: on the side of hard comedy, and this is this
Speaker 1: is I wouldn't say hard comedy, right, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1: I would say that it's comedy. But there's a lot
Speaker 1: of heart, I guess from Gene. Sometimes it can be
Speaker 1: hard comedy. How do you tell the line, like, what's
Speaker 1: the most important for you and your storytelling vision and
Speaker 1: what's the most important for the show?
Speaker 4: Funny first? I mean it is.
Speaker 5: It is in our minds a comedy and so we're
Speaker 5: always always making sure that it's funny first.
Speaker 4: But whether that just be the scene or the dialogue.
Speaker 5: And we do have this kind of cheat code because
Speaker 5: Gene plays a stand up so we get to like
Speaker 5: write not only stand up jokes for it, but also like,
Speaker 5: you know, she's a person that makes jokes constantly.
Speaker 4: She's constantly joking. She's constantly ribbing Ava and Ava's throwing
Speaker 4: it back.
Speaker 5: Like we get to write jokes, which I think when
Speaker 5: you see a comedy where people, you know whatever work
Speaker 5: in a hospital and then they're slinging jokes, you're like, well,
Speaker 5: if feels written, because right, people are not professional Canadians
Speaker 5: who are really fun.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1: You've never met a funny phlebotomist.
Speaker 4: You know, I haven't. I don't think i've met.
Speaker 1: It only took me two tries to get phlebotomists out
Speaker 1: of my mouth.
Speaker 4: That was good, that was and that's a funny word.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you've had therapy in your life, right,
Speaker 1: You've been to therapy, you have. It's impossible to live
Speaker 1: in la and be in this industry and not go
Speaker 1: to therapy. It's like the gateway drug to therapy is
Speaker 1: being in Hollywood. You have to go to therapy at
Speaker 1: some point if you've lived there. Okay, Well, we're going
Speaker 1: to take a break and then we're gonna come back
Speaker 1: and we're going to answer some callers questions. Okay, Paul
Speaker 1: w Okay, we'll be right back this week.
Speaker 3: We'd love to get questions from anyone with parenting questions
Speaker 3: or step parenting questions. We'd also like to hear from
Speaker 3: any trans or non binary folks who would like invice
Speaker 3: from Chelsea, whether that be about friendships, dating, work issues,
Speaker 3: or anything else. Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot.
Speaker 1: Com, and we're back with Paul W. Downs Hell and
Speaker 1: how there's no relation to the other the zillions of
Speaker 1: Paul downs out there, right, because I was assuming that
Speaker 1: W had to be put in there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I do have I mean, I have a
Speaker 5: relationship to my dad, but if I didn't have a W,
Speaker 5: he might collect a residual, which is not good.
Speaker 4: You know, it's good at me.
Speaker 1: Are you in any way related to George W. Bush?
Speaker 5: No, No, it's not the way at least you know
Speaker 5: keyword for me.
Speaker 1: But you know I was just asking, just you know,
Speaker 1: I ask every guest.
Speaker 3: Yes, our first question comes from l She says, to
Speaker 3: your Chelsea, I'm writing to ask you about how to
Speaker 3: approach a prenup. My fiance is a self made millionaire
Speaker 3: and has two kids. I've always known that there will
Speaker 3: be a prenup eventually, but I feel like the expectations
Speaker 3: are always changing. None of this is very romantic, and
Speaker 3: I hate going through this process. I don't want the
Speaker 3: money he made before we were together, but having said that,
Speaker 3: I want to stand.
Speaker 1: Up for my lot more money.
Speaker 3: I have no kids, I'm almost a decade younger, and
Speaker 3: I've had a successful career. But it feels like since
Speaker 3: we're starting a partner ship, I should have a somewhat
Speaker 3: equal share in what happens going forward. How do you
Speaker 3: recommend handling money matters like this in a couple?
Speaker 1: L Oh, god, prenups. Sorry, yeah, that is I don't
Speaker 1: know the legalities around a prenup because I'm smart enough
Speaker 1: to never have been married. Paul, w what about you?
Speaker 1: You're married?
Speaker 4: I am married. I don't have a prenup.
Speaker 1: Okay, well you need to get one, even though you
Speaker 1: guys share the same job.
Speaker 4: We gotta do. I know, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's gonna be a tricky No, you can
Speaker 1: get a post up. Actually, that is a thing. People
Speaker 1: do do that or they re they they renegotiate their
Speaker 1: prenup once they're down the road, like five or ten years,
Speaker 1: Like who's counting. Obviously they are because they're like, all
Speaker 1: right now it's time for this to you know, mature.
Speaker 1: But I would say, first of all, you need an
Speaker 1: attorney that is going to have your best interests in mind.
Speaker 1: You can't rely on your fiance's attorney to have your
Speaker 1: best interests. That is not a thing. They don't have
Speaker 1: your best interests, they have his best interests. So you
Speaker 1: have to just find a lawyer, and find a female lawyer.
Speaker 1: I would say to help negotiate your terms, and you're
Speaker 1: absolutely right. If you're gonna move in and be a partnership,
Speaker 1: then it should be more of a partnership. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you're no way entitled to anything that he made before
Speaker 1: that or any of the money that has set aside
Speaker 1: for his children.
Speaker 4: I think that's right.
Speaker 5: I think it's like, okay, we just make terms that
Speaker 5: you guys are a partnership from that point forward.
Speaker 4: I think that's right.
Speaker 1: I was once engaged very quietly too with someone, and
Speaker 1: as soon as I heard about the prenup, I was like,
Speaker 1: we're not doing this. It was my from my business managers.
Speaker 1: Once I heard about what would be entailed, what it
Speaker 1: would entail, I was like, never mind, I'm not even
Speaker 1: going to have the problem to ever have to deal with.
Speaker 4: I will say, our business manager did recommend a prenup
Speaker 4: and we did not do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are those people. You must have thought you
Speaker 1: were really in love at that time, Paul w.
Speaker 4: Well, we had been together for like fifteen years.
Speaker 1: That's a long time. Fifteen years. So now you've been
Speaker 1: together twenty years, No, eighteen years, no, like seventeen seventeen. Okay,
Speaker 1: my math is sometimes a little bit off.
Speaker 4: Mine is off too. I don't.
Speaker 5: I'm like, this is kind of an approximation, you know, yeah,
Speaker 5: it was great anyway.
Speaker 1: Well, lengths of time, durations of time is always in an approximation.
Speaker 1: People are like, when did your mother die? I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It could have been a year ago,
Speaker 1: it could have been ten years ago. I have no
Speaker 1: sense of time.
Speaker 4: Right right, right, especially, I have very bad memory too.
Speaker 1: Oh, you have a really bad memory. A lot of
Speaker 1: guys have bad memories. It's impressive when you meet a
Speaker 1: guy with good memory. I sometimes have a good one,
Speaker 1: sometimes a bad one. It depends how much product spoke
Speaker 1: that day.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, I think that's really good advice for Elle,
Speaker 3: Like get your own attorney because it's not a romantic
Speaker 3: thing and it needs to just like not be your manic.
Speaker 1: And you shouldn't even discuss it with your husband to
Speaker 1: just don't even discuss it. Let that lawyers deal with it.
Speaker 1: People are there to do those jobs, so you don't
Speaker 1: have to do them. Do not get involved. It will
Speaker 1: get much more unromantic if you do exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, keep the boundary, Yeah, and talk about money.
Speaker 1: Is always an ugly conversation. It's an uncomfortable conversation. If
Speaker 1: you need it, it's a desperate conversation. If you have it,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just always like sticky.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there you go. L Our first color today
Speaker 3: is Bree. She is thirty seven and she's a therapist,
Speaker 3: your Chelsea Pie. I'm a lesbian in my mid thirties
Speaker 3: who's worked for the last ten years as both a
Speaker 3: child behavioral therapist and a family therapist. It can be
Speaker 3: a very difficult and very rewarding job, and I love it.
Speaker 3: At home, I have a wife who I've been with
Speaker 3: since our early twenties. We have a beautiful four year
Speaker 3: old daughter and are on the verge of trying for
Speaker 3: another child. We have a wonderful marriage, she's my best friend,
Speaker 3: my writer die and ninety percent of the time things
Speaker 3: are great. Parenting is where it gets tricky. She's the
Speaker 3: one who carried our daughter and has always been a
Speaker 3: mama bear by nature, while I'm also a mom. I
Speaker 3: often take the quote dad roles when parenting. Our daughter
Speaker 3: has a special bond with my wife, which is great,
Speaker 3: but sometimes it leaves me feeling a little left out.
Speaker 3: And as much as I love my job, it feels
Speaker 3: like it's working against me sometimes at home. While my
Speaker 3: wife and I often parent cohesively, will occasionally disagree with
Speaker 3: some parenting decisions. Unfortunately, whenever I disagree with her opinion,
Speaker 3: she automatically says that I'm being too clinical. I try
Speaker 3: not to use professional language for this reason, and I
Speaker 3: do think I do a pretty good job. Needless to say,
Speaker 3: anytime we have a parenting disagreement, her opinion always wins,
Speaker 3: and she disqualifies mine due to my profession. My wife
Speaker 3: struggles with a lot of insecurity, and I can see
Speaker 3: some of the same traits developing in our daughter. I've
Speaker 3: tried to explain that there are things we can do
Speaker 3: as parents to build our daughter's self confidence, but my
Speaker 3: words fall on deaf ears and she does get defensive.
Speaker 3: I've suggested seeing a family therapist ourselves, but she revealed
Speaker 3: to me that she doesn't believe in therapy, which is
Speaker 3: a whole other dilemma. No, is it better for me
Speaker 3: to back down and go along with her instincts as
Speaker 3: a mom, sometimes against my better judgment and training. Am
Speaker 3: I really letting my career blur my natural parenting?
Speaker 1: Bree oh Hi Brie Hi Hi This is our special
Speaker 1: guest today, Paul W. Downs. Hi, Hi, Hi. That's so
Speaker 1: it's not funny, but it's very funny that your that's
Speaker 1: like being a ghostbuster and having your spouse not believe
Speaker 1: in ghosts. That's fucked up.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's been challenging.
Speaker 1: People cannot not be open to therapy, Like that's just
Speaker 1: so stupid to say you need a parenting counselor somebody
Speaker 1: who can talk to both of you because it's not
Speaker 1: cool that she's disagreeing with you. You guys are supposed to
Speaker 1: be on the same team.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 7: it had to do with the fact that when I
Speaker 7: when our daughter was first born, you know, I'm not
Speaker 7: great with newborns. That was did not come nationally to me.
Speaker 7: I was awkward, I fumbled around a lot, and I
Speaker 7: think she sort of panicked and pulled back. And you know,
Speaker 7: my expertise is really from five and above, and so
Speaker 7: I think she was like, you know what we're done.
Speaker 7: I'm going to make the decisions and you can be
Speaker 7: over here.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well that's that you can't be relegated to like
Speaker 1: a second in command. A I wouldn't worry about that.
Speaker 1: It's people bond with children at different ages, Like, don't
Speaker 1: worry about not bonding to the same level when she
Speaker 1: was an infant. Is your daughter, Yeah, daughter, and don't
Speaker 1: worry about that. You're gonna have your own bonding with
Speaker 1: her at whatever age it's going to happen. That always
Speaker 1: shakes itself out. But your wife seems to be the
Speaker 1: bigger issue you, which is you have to get her
Speaker 1: to understand that she doesn't get to decide. She's not
Speaker 1: the only parent in this unit. This family unit has
Speaker 1: two parents, and she's dominating.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and she's never dominated in anything before. I've always
Speaker 7: been that kind of person too. She has been like, oh,
Speaker 7: I'm going I'm good with whatever. I make all the
Speaker 7: decisions for a lot of things, which can be frustrating
Speaker 7: because I love a back and forth. And so now
Speaker 7: she's like, you know what, I've never done anything and
Speaker 7: made any decisions. Now I'm going to stand up for
Speaker 7: myself and make all these decisions. And you know, it's
Speaker 7: hard to argue with that, but I'd like to be
Speaker 7: a role in my daughter's life.
Speaker 1: And you have every right to be a role in
Speaker 1: your daughter's life. So like, yeah, that's the most important thing.
Speaker 1: It's not about who's right or who's wrong. It's about
Speaker 1: both being open to listening to each other's opinions.
Speaker 4: You do family therapy, right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm a family therapist and a child behavioral therapist.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay, So what would you say.
Speaker 5: I'm like, you know, I'm like, this is so hard
Speaker 5: because you're you're in it. But this is past, this
Speaker 5: is hard.
Speaker 7: I mean, the immediate thought that would come to mind
Speaker 7: for me is there's clearly some trust issues on her end,
Speaker 7: in terms she did have a very traumatic childhood. There
Speaker 7: is a lot of trust background issues there. She doesn't
Speaker 7: believe in therapy because she doesn't trust the process. She
Speaker 7: doesn't trust that someone a stranger could help her with
Speaker 7: what she experienced, and she doesn't trust other people to
Speaker 7: help make big decisions like myself for our daughter. And
Speaker 7: at first, before we had a child, it was easier
Speaker 7: because you know, it was just the two of us,
Speaker 7: and now there's a whole human life here that is
Speaker 7: impacting our ability to trust each other basically, So that
Speaker 7: would be my first thought is there's some trust building
Speaker 7: to have to occur here, but I don't know how
Speaker 7: to do.
Speaker 1: It well, especially with what you just said earlier, which
Speaker 1: is that you made all the decisions until this and
Speaker 1: you're a child psychologist or behavioral list and so she's
Speaker 1: looking at you like, oh no, no, no, this is
Speaker 1: another thing you're going to dominate. And now she's stepping
Speaker 1: in and going, no, I'm going to take this role.
Speaker 1: So yes, with that information, with everything you said, that
Speaker 1: sounds pretty kind of textbook. So you should be able
Speaker 1: to handle this without us.
Speaker 4: How old is How old is she your daughter? Not
Speaker 4: your wife?
Speaker 1: She's four and a half now and a half.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, you're about to get to your expertise.
Speaker 7: Yes, and you know I'd love another child, but I
Speaker 7: don't want to go through all this over again.
Speaker 1: Okay, well you have to get into therapy together. She
Speaker 1: can't that. That attitude isn't going to be good for
Speaker 1: your marriage or your relationship or your family dynamic. So
Speaker 1: you've got to really work on that and work on that.
Speaker 1: Do you see someone?
Speaker 4: Ah?
Speaker 7: Yes, I do.
Speaker 1: Well talk to your person about that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know you're trying to talk to us about it, but
Speaker 1: you should also talk to your person and see what
Speaker 1: they say, Like, what is an organic way for you
Speaker 1: to bring her in where she doesn't feel threatened and
Speaker 1: she doesn't feel it's about her, and you can organically
Speaker 1: bring the conversation in around whatever the pretense of her
Speaker 1: coming to therapy, which is you want to make sure
Speaker 1: that you're staying connected. Maybe you don't feel so connected
Speaker 1: to her.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's true, Oka.
Speaker 1: And I don't think you go in saying like staking
Speaker 1: your claim of what you think you're missing. I think
Speaker 1: you go in like, I want us to be more
Speaker 1: unified as parents, and I want to be closer to
Speaker 1: you and acknowledge the closeness she has with your daughter
Speaker 1: without sounding like it's a threat, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: it's so great the way that you've stepped in. It
Speaker 1: makes my life. It's so nice to know she's in
Speaker 1: such safe hands. You know that obviously it's her mother,
Speaker 1: but still, like people need to hear those things, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's usually where the insecurity lies. It's like this
Speaker 1: deep rooted fear that you're not doing a good enough
Speaker 1: job at whatever it is you're doing.
Speaker 4: Right, I think you've hit.
Speaker 7: The nail on the head there with her. I think
Speaker 7: that you're absolutely right. She would respond much better to
Speaker 7: a positive approach there instead of in the past we
Speaker 7: would just combat. I would say why am I not
Speaker 7: allowed you in on this? And she would get defensive.
Speaker 7: So I think that's absolutely right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with people who get to fend if, it's just
Speaker 1: like you have to like pour love over them over
Speaker 1: and over and over again until they just melt and
Speaker 1: give up.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: It's almost like you want to say, can you come
Speaker 5: to my session because I want you to help me
Speaker 5: with this thing. Yeah, exactly, I'm feeling sad about this thing,
Speaker 5: and maybe you can shed some light on the situation
Speaker 5: with my therapist. Like, you know, if you make it
Speaker 5: more about what you need and not what they need
Speaker 5: to change, that might be helpful. And I think that's right.
Speaker 5: It's just about like being like, you're so great at
Speaker 5: all these things. Sometimes I don't feel what you know.
Speaker 5: I do feel like sometimes people do the counterbalance, they
Speaker 5: do the end of the yang, and it's like it
Speaker 5: might be the case that she's like, no, you're great,
Speaker 5: you're a great parent. You also studied this, he went
Speaker 5: to school for it, and you know me, I do
Speaker 5: believe in it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But you could still feel inadequate within a relationship,
Speaker 1: and that's a good descriptor to use for the way
Speaker 1: you feel to her, because that makes it, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not aggressive.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think there was also that second layer
Speaker 7: for me if I was I'm not a blood parent,
Speaker 7: and so I was already feeling insignificant that I didn't
Speaker 7: have the same role in my daughter's life with that
Speaker 7: whole second parent but not blood parent situation. So that
Speaker 7: really haunted me for a while as well. I'm working
Speaker 7: on that.
Speaker 3: When you know, you said that you're thinking about another child,
Speaker 3: are you? Is she going to carry again and use
Speaker 3: her own eggs and everything?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Yeah, so same situations, full blood seidling.
Speaker 1: You're having honest feelings about that reservations, right, you said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you got to like get this. It's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: You just have to get her to a place where
Speaker 1: you have to really come from a place where you're
Speaker 1: sharing it with her rather than prescribing it to her.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, you know, I'm just navigating both her and being
Speaker 7: you know, a same sex couple with same parenting, which
Speaker 7: we don't have a lot of examples to pull from,
Speaker 7: so we're sort of making it up on the fly.
Speaker 1: Just follow Brandy Carlyle on Instagram. She and her wife
Speaker 1: seem to make it work, even though Brandy Carlyle is
Speaker 1: on can you join a band on tour that seems
Speaker 1: to be a great Can you start doing stand up?
Speaker 1: Most people don't know? Okay, well, good luck with everything
Speaker 1: and keep us posted. Let us know. If that works
Speaker 1: out and you get her to come to therapy.
Speaker 7: Awesome, Maybe I'll get her to come here and get
Speaker 7: therapy for me.
Speaker 3: Bring her on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are looking for couples. I'm not fucking joking.
Speaker 1: I like talking to couples. So if you could get
Speaker 1: her to do it, we'll set it up all right.
Speaker 7: Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 1: Paul, do you defer to your wife about your child,
Speaker 1: about your parenting like or does she defer to you
Speaker 1: who's in charge?
Speaker 5: I think it depends on the moment. I feel like
Speaker 5: we both we both have our thoughts. I mean, sometimes
Speaker 5: it differs, but it's it's so it's so minor. It's
Speaker 5: usually around like should we keep them up in the
Speaker 5: car before you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: It's stuff like that.
Speaker 5: But I get what we was saying about, even because
Speaker 5: I feel like dads feel this way too, even if
Speaker 5: there are blood related it it's like, well they didn't.
Speaker 4: Carry the child.
Speaker 5: They also didn't if they if the child was breastflite,
Speaker 5: they didn't brestfeed, And there's like a bond that happens there.
Speaker 5: And in the beginning, dad, the dad is kind of
Speaker 5: like the butler, not you know, he's just like making
Speaker 5: sure everybody has the things, but not really doing as much.
Speaker 4: So I do get that. I get what Breeze is
Speaker 4: talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely, like I even hearing it, like
Speaker 1: there's one birth parent and then there's one, so you're
Speaker 1: assuming a male role almost because you're like the dad
Speaker 1: or a traditional male role. But I would feel that
Speaker 1: like if I was in a lesbian relationship and my
Speaker 1: wife carried the baby, I'd be like, all right, one am,
Speaker 1: I allowed man out. It's like how you feel after
Speaker 1: a threesome, you know, when you're the extra.
Speaker 3: Just like that, So how Paul W feels every day
Speaker 3: in his workplace.
Speaker 1: Paul W always feels post threesome. I could tell. Oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, Paul, I just agree to do a
Speaker 1: residency in Vegas at the Cosmopolitan once a month.
Speaker 4: I know, congrats. I love that.
Speaker 1: I was inspired by the show No.
Speaker 4: Get Out of here, get out of here.
Speaker 1: I read that you guys spend so much time in Vegas,
Speaker 1: so you actually have to live there part time when
Speaker 1: you're shooting, right.
Speaker 5: We actually hate to say it. We shoot mostly in
Speaker 5: La We're only there for like three days a season.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, that.
Speaker 4: Makes you love.
Speaker 5: We do love the Vegas portion of our shoot. We
Speaker 5: love you know, it's so it's it is the show.
Speaker 5: So I love Vegas.
Speaker 4: I think it's.
Speaker 1: I love the way her house is in Vegas with
Speaker 1: that long drive. I love when a driveway isn't is
Speaker 1: too long to be called a driveway and it's just
Speaker 1: a drive. It's a drive. That's what I say. Whenever
Speaker 1: I go to ted sarandas is the house, it's like
Speaker 1: it's a drive, you know, like it's a whole. It
Speaker 1: loops around the property and you're like, ooh am, I
Speaker 1: never never land.
Speaker 4: I want to go. Everybody knows going I gotta go. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I gotta go to Ted.
Speaker 1: The best hosts. Okay. So yeah, I love the way
Speaker 1: her comes into her house. I'm like, oh god, that's
Speaker 1: the only way you could get anyone to move to
Speaker 1: Vegas is to give them some strolling indoor amusement park
Speaker 1: for a house, you know, basically like, you have all
Speaker 1: the fixings you need here, you don't ever have to
Speaker 1: leave because it's fucking hot there.
Speaker 4: Are you going to live there?
Speaker 1: No, no, no doubt. I literally go. I fly. I
Speaker 1: perform once a month, so it's like, oh oh, not
Speaker 1: like a weekly thing, right. I tried to calculate in
Speaker 1: my head how many hours in a row I could
Speaker 1: stay in Vegas while also remaining stable. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm not I can't be trusted in areas
Speaker 1: like that or Monte Carlo.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, Oh, Monte Carlo will be really fun. I
Speaker 4: would see you there.
Speaker 1: I've been dying to throw Monte Carlo into something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what do we have?
Speaker 3: Well, now that we've hit Monte Carlo, our next caller
Speaker 3: is Kelly. Kelly is twenty nine and says, Dear Chelsea,
Speaker 3: I write to you because I need you to help
Speaker 3: me get the hell over a fear. My partner is
Speaker 3: a world traveler. It's one of her favorite things. She
Speaker 3: would love nothing more than to go somewhere extra cool
Speaker 3: with me. I also love to travel and take vacations,
Speaker 3: but usually ones I can drive to. You see, I'm
Speaker 3: afraid of planes. She and I have been together for
Speaker 3: four years now. She's been patient and supportive, but it
Speaker 3: has been four years, and I owe it to her
Speaker 3: and me to shake it off. I refuse to fly
Speaker 3: for about twenty years now. I think my avoidance is
Speaker 3: rooted in past experience of turbulence, fear of no exit
Speaker 3: or control, a fatal plane crash occurring in a city
Speaker 3: my partner was visiting at the time, intrusive thoughts, and
Speaker 3: overall anxiety. My therapist is on board to help me
Speaker 3: through the plane fear, even via virtual reality. My doctor
Speaker 3: has given me at Avan to use on my first
Speaker 3: ever adult flight, whenever that may be. In conclusion, I'm
Speaker 3: getting good building blocks toward my first flight, but the
Speaker 3: thought still horrifies me. I need Chelsea Handler to tell
Speaker 3: me to get the hell over it. Maybe tell me
Speaker 3: what's so good about flying. Your advice will help my
Speaker 3: partner like me even more. Kelly, and Kelly, I do
Speaker 3: need you to tell us what you told me on
Speaker 3: our call together about like the last time you flew
Speaker 3: and when that was Yes, Hello.
Speaker 8: Everyone, Hi, ahead, welcome, thank you so much, thanks for
Speaker 8: having me so. My last flight was in two thousand
Speaker 8: and five. I was very young and Hurricane Katrina was
Speaker 8: basically hitting as we were leaving, the hurricane was hitting
Speaker 8: and hitting, turbulence in the air just all of that
Speaker 8: combined really freaked me out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're fine. You're fine now, nothing happened. So look,
Speaker 1: the worst thing happened and you're fine. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the worst thing didn't happen, but it came close to happening,
Speaker 1: or what you think was going to cause that. First
Speaker 1: of all, I don't know if this will help you,
Speaker 1: but it helped me a long time ago. I don't
Speaker 1: have a fear of flying, but I remember someone telling
Speaker 1: me that when you're experiencing turbulence, it's almost like the
Speaker 1: opposite of crashing, like it is the most normal expected
Speaker 1: thing to happen, and that planes don't get into trouble
Speaker 1: during turbulence. That's not what causes planes to go out,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean maybe with weather changing the way
Speaker 1: it is because of climate change, that it could be
Speaker 1: it could escalate to that, But that's not where where
Speaker 1: crashes come from. Turbulence. So you should know that and
Speaker 1: write that down in front of you so you could
Speaker 1: read that over and over again. You know what I
Speaker 1: mean for when you fly. I'm fucking serious.
Speaker 2: But just you were fine.
Speaker 1: You are fine, you are safe, you are fine, I
Speaker 1: am safe. Blah blah blah, over and over and over
Speaker 1: against yourself. To calm yourself down while you're on the
Speaker 1: plane and out of van didn't help you.
Speaker 8: I haven't tried it yet.
Speaker 4: Oh it's gonna be great.
Speaker 1: You're gonna you're gonna love it. The other thing is,
Speaker 1: I would recommend you go to a hypnotist to try
Speaker 1: to get over this, because Kerrie Gainer's in LA. But
Speaker 1: that would require a flight, so I don't know. I
Speaker 1: went to him for smoking cigarettes. I have tons of people.
Speaker 1: Do you know who he is?
Speaker 4: I've heard of him yet, Yeah, like he's.
Speaker 1: This famous hypnotist.
Speaker 5: Who is I had a friend who went for candy
Speaker 5: for like a sugar addiction.
Speaker 4: I went.
Speaker 1: I had a friend who went for biting her toenails. Okay,
Speaker 1: apparently the two biggest phobias are spiders and flying. Those
Speaker 1: are the or no sorry, fear of public speaking, and
Speaker 1: flying spiders are scary too.
Speaker 4: We feel for the spider fear of people.
Speaker 1: But can you look up a hypnotist? You have to
Speaker 1: try it, you do it? Three times and you will like,
Speaker 1: it works for a lot of people, so don't rule
Speaker 1: that out.
Speaker 5: And you know, my uncle flies planes, and I'm like,
Speaker 5: this is crazy, this is scary. But you know what
Speaker 5: he said to me, and it actually is in my
Speaker 5: head all the time. Planes want to stay in the
Speaker 5: air the way that they're designed.
Speaker 4: They don't.
Speaker 5: It's hard to get them down. Actually, the landing is
Speaker 5: not to scare you, one of the one of the
Speaker 5: most treacherous parts.
Speaker 1: Because necessary to say that what are you doing right now?
Speaker 1: So she gets on the plane, she's okay, and that
Speaker 1: she remembers what you said about the fucking landing.
Speaker 4: That's the last five minutes.
Speaker 1: Ruined the whole flight.
Speaker 5: No flying, it's not it's not dangerous to land.
Speaker 4: It's fine. It's it's all safe. It's safer than driving
Speaker 4: in a car. You know that. You've heard the stats.
Speaker 1: It is safer than driving in a car.
Speaker 4: Have you been in a Have you been in a
Speaker 4: golf cart?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So golf carts don't really have a suspension that lets them.
Speaker 5: I mean, they're really bouncy, but they don't tip over,
Speaker 5: they don't roll, you know what I mean. That's exactly
Speaker 5: what turbunece is it's like it's like bounces. It's not
Speaker 5: going to make the plane all out of the air.
Speaker 5: It's like being in a golf cart, and I do
Speaker 5: I know that sounds crazy, but I do think because turbulence,
Speaker 5: I don't love it either. I don't know who loves turbulence,
Speaker 5: but I do think about the golf cart analogy whenever
Speaker 5: there's turbulence, and also that the plane wants to be
Speaker 5: in the air.
Speaker 1: I don't think that line of thinking is helpful at all.
Speaker 1: Does that make you feel better?
Speaker 8: Yes, I wrote all those down right. It's also like
Speaker 8: an overstimulation thing and not liking to be around people
Speaker 8: and have no escape. So I'm wondering what escape up
Speaker 8: for Like a first class flight that might.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that will help a lot in first class will
Speaker 5: have Also, I think turbulence is less apparent in the front.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, okay, I took out a van for
Speaker 3: a flying because it was like a period where I
Speaker 3: was pretty nervous flyer and it like you still think like,
Speaker 3: oh I might die, but like it makes you not
Speaker 3: care that you might die.
Speaker 2: It just takes that away.
Speaker 3: I will also say, TikTok, there are a lot of
Speaker 3: people on there who are like, let me walk you
Speaker 3: through the different sounds you're going to hear as you're
Speaker 3: taking off or as you're landing. And here's why they're
Speaker 3: not scary. I recently stumbled across this and it made
Speaker 3: my next flight like so much easier.
Speaker 8: To download TikTok.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, get ahead of ourselves TikTok, yet don't ruin it.
Speaker 1: Probably stay away from it and just look up what
Speaker 1: she's talking about. Yeah, there on YouTube too, But does
Speaker 1: any of that help you?
Speaker 8: Definitely? Definitely. I'm just really grateful.
Speaker 1: You can do it.
Speaker 4: Thank you. It's gonna you're gonna love it.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I just want to pick a place I really want
Speaker 8: to go to and then it'll feel really worth it.
Speaker 8: And hearing your words of encouragement is super help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, get after it, because once you get that fly
Speaker 1: first flight down, then you can travel wherever you want, girl,
Speaker 1: And that's the that's the key to the rest of
Speaker 1: your life, like looking and seeing different new places. I mean,
Speaker 1: how exciting is that to know that you can go
Speaker 1: and travel around the world and you're not gonna be scared. Yep.
Speaker 2: If Courtney can get Travis Barker to fly again.
Speaker 3: You can fly again.
Speaker 1: I think Courtney could get Travis Barker to do a
Speaker 1: lot of things that he hasn't done in a long time.
Speaker 1: He seems pretty devoted to her. Okay, well, good luck
Speaker 1: with everything, take care, Thank you so much, check care bye.
Speaker 1: I don't like these requests when people say I want
Speaker 1: Chelsea to tell me to get my shit together. I
Speaker 1: want Chelsea to tell me to go for a flight,
Speaker 1: because it's like that's all I have to say. Then,
Speaker 1: like they're not letting me decide what to say. Then
Speaker 1: I'm just like, go do it.
Speaker 2: I think we give her a lot of stuff though,
Speaker 2: I think it was good.
Speaker 1: Well, we did cover a lot of stuff. Think God
Speaker 1: Paul was here.
Speaker 3: People just don't have like Chelsea handler confidence, so they're like,
Speaker 3: give that to me.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not confidence, it's that I don't care,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean long enough to make a choice.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, let's go keep moving. Oh so, if
Speaker 1: you haven't checked out my opening dates in Vegas, check
Speaker 1: them out. They're on my website Chelseahandler dot com. We
Speaker 1: announced four dates in Vegas plus my all my other
Speaker 1: cities that I'm coming to get your tickets to Chelseahandler
Speaker 1: dot com before this tour finally fucking wraps up. We're
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, Paul, put your coffee down,
Speaker 1: what you're on camera. We're gonna take a break, and
Speaker 1: Paul w and I are going to have We're gonna
Speaker 1: be back.
Speaker 3: We're back, all right. Our last email comes from Kim.
Speaker 3: She says, Dear Chelsea, I recently went through my first
Speaker 3: adult breakup. My wife and I were together for twelve years,
Speaker 3: married for seven, and it has been the most difficult
Speaker 3: thing I've ever had to grow through. I love a
Speaker 3: double life, split between corporate America and being a comedian.
Speaker 3: I've been in a love hate relationship with stand up
Speaker 3: since two thousand and six, and right before the pandemic,
Speaker 3: I co wrote a web series that we finally put
Speaker 3: in the festival circuit. I'm considering getting back on stage,
Speaker 3: and of course all my stand up friends are like,
Speaker 3: you have so much material. Let's just say that the
Speaker 3: way my marriage ended is very complicated and involves a hypnotist,
Speaker 3: a magician, a clown, and possibly a cult.
Speaker 1: Can we get that hypnotist number for the other caller?
Speaker 3: Well, that's hope, So I don't know if I have
Speaker 3: a lifetime original movie on my hands or comedy gold,
Speaker 3: but it's something that's the background.
Speaker 2: And here's the dilemma.
Speaker 3: My AX asked me to keep some information about our
Speaker 3: breakup on the DL because it could affect her career.
Speaker 3: Although I can easily tell jokes and not say her
Speaker 3: name directly, things do tend to end up on the Internet,
Speaker 3: and people that know us will very quickly put two
Speaker 3: and two together. I'm also not sure what protections I
Speaker 3: have if I decided to write a script or something
Speaker 3: that's quote based on true events. I'm torn between feeling
Speaker 3: the need to protect someone that honestly really hurt me
Speaker 3: and wanting to dive back into my comedy world and
Speaker 3: tell my story Kim.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the legalities around that are, because
Speaker 1: I know about writing a book how you have to
Speaker 1: change things for people so that no one can recognize
Speaker 1: who you're talking about. But you can still talk about
Speaker 1: the people things that experiences you've had. You just have
Speaker 1: to shroud who that other person is. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if just being in front of people who know
Speaker 1: that you dated her is enough of a connection that's
Speaker 1: still your experience you're not calling her out. You've had
Speaker 1: other girlfriends, I'm sure. Well maybe it's been a long time.
Speaker 1: It sounded like so maybe not. But I think you
Speaker 1: can talk about her without don't say her name. Don't
Speaker 1: do that. If somebody asks for privacy, everyone has a
Speaker 1: right to privacy, even though I don't respect that, you know,
Speaker 1: but I think you should definitely pursue stand up and
Speaker 1: see what you've got in this material, because nothing is
Speaker 1: funny like tragedy, really nothing. You give anything two weeks
Speaker 1: and it is cooked perfectly to bring it out and
Speaker 1: start sharing it. So I am a firm believer in
Speaker 1: the darker the moment, the funnier, the potential for funny
Speaker 1: is greater percent.
Speaker 4: I think that the saddest stuff can be the funniest.
Speaker 5: And also if you have material that I mean, it
Speaker 5: sounds pretty rich, that material sounds good. It feels like
Speaker 5: you have to do it, especially if the person hurt you.
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 5: We don't wanna, we don't want to expose the person.
Speaker 5: That person has a right to privacy. But I don't
Speaker 5: know unless you have an hour of material about this
Speaker 5: woman who, then you know, you tape a special and
Speaker 5: it becomes huge. I don't think it's gonna impact her career.
Speaker 5: You know, people you guys have in common might be like, oh,
Speaker 5: they had a clown.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. By the time you would would get as
Speaker 1: comedy special, you're gonna have had had more girlfriends. So
Speaker 1: there's no direct relation. I understand, you've been with someone
Speaker 1: for twelve years, so when you say your ex, everyone
Speaker 1: knows who knows you, knows who you're talking about, but
Speaker 1: not everybody knows who you're talking about. So it is
Speaker 1: kind of a murky area. But comics do it all
Speaker 1: the time. My whole first set was about my ex
Speaker 1: boyfriend finding him cheating on me with not one, but
Speaker 1: two women. I added the second one for storytelling purposes.
Speaker 1: There was really only one woman, but like I talked
Speaker 1: about him for like. That was my first set was
Speaker 1: just how walking in on my boyfriend cheating on me?
Speaker 1: So you can, I mean, people, that's what everyone is doing.
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift just wrote a song about Kim Kardashian and
Speaker 1: called it Thank You Amy, and it's about Kim. We
Speaker 1: all know it's about Kim Kardashian, So you know, I
Speaker 1: would just say keep it. You've never said her name
Speaker 1: out loud, don't say it so you don't get yourself
Speaker 1: in trouble. But definitely, first you stand up and if
Speaker 1: it you know, if you're feeling it and it's vibing,
Speaker 1: then then continue. Conversely, if the opposite is true as well,
Speaker 1: don't continue. Okay, well, we're gonna wrap up with you.
Speaker 1: You're such a cutie pie, Paul w Downs. I had
Speaker 1: such a fun time with you today.
Speaker 4: I am is an honor and a pleasure. Thank you
Speaker 4: for having me.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I wish you well. Say hi to my
Speaker 1: friends Hannah and Jen Statsky. Tell her I say hello too.
Speaker 4: From childhood, I will indeed, Yeah, I'm tell Gene to
Speaker 4: come on.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, tell Gene. I want her on too. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: you have to write apart from me to come on.
Speaker 1: So I can either have a love scene with no,
Speaker 1: I can't have a love scene. I can't even have
Speaker 1: a love scene with a man I once did. I
Speaker 1: once had to do a movie and they this is
Speaker 1: how bad you guys I was. I once had to
Speaker 1: do a movie with this actor and they wanted me
Speaker 1: to open mouth kiss him. And I took one look
Speaker 1: at this guy and I was like, I can't do that.
Speaker 1: You know, like I can't kiss this man. I just won't.
Speaker 1: And so I went to the director and I was like,
Speaker 1: I know this scene is about us like making out,
Speaker 1: but obviously, like let's fake that because I'm not interested
Speaker 1: in this. And he's like, well, it's in the script,
Speaker 1: like you have to act, and I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not happening, like I'm not making out with that kid.
Speaker 1: He was like ten years younger than me. It felt
Speaker 1: disgusting and it was there was a situation, and I
Speaker 1: was like no, no, And then finally I was like
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 6: To the director, I I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 6: It's not gonna happen. So finally he's like, okay, well
Speaker 6: what can happen? I was like, we could touch arms
Speaker 6: and then we're going to turn our back.
Speaker 1: To the camera. No, you don't want to hire me
Speaker 1: from everything ever, anything. I'm terrible.
Speaker 4: Well, okay, I'll keep that in Okay, keep that.
Speaker 1: In mind, keep my behavior in mine. I would love
Speaker 1: to thank you so much, Paul w We love you.
Speaker 4: Thank you, I love you.
Speaker 1: Everyone tuned in to season three of Haacks if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it already, it's streaming on Max. Okay, So
Speaker 1: upcoming shows that I have you guys, these are the
Speaker 1: places I'm coming in May Prior Lake, Minnesota, Verona, New York, Auckland,
Speaker 1: New Zealand, Wellington, New Zealand, Melbourne, Australia, Brisbane and Australia, Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 1: We've added second shows to places that have sold out
Speaker 1: the first and then I'm gonna be in Hawaii on Maui, Ka,
Speaker 1: Hulue and Honolulu. I will be there in July. Also
Speaker 1: in July, I'm coming to Niagara Falls on July twenty seventh.
Speaker 1: I'm coming to Hollywood, Florida for my only show in
Speaker 1: Florida on July twenty eighth. I'll be in Auburn, Washington
Speaker 1: on August first, and then Santa Rosa, California for my
Speaker 1: second show August second. And then I'm coming to Atlantic City.
Speaker 1: MATEO o'line and I are co headlining a really fun
Speaker 1: show in Atlantic City this summer. August tenth August seventeenth
Speaker 1: is the Santa Barbara Bull. You do not want to
Speaker 1: miss that. And then I will be all over Maine, Charlotte,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina. I'm coming to Texas. I'm
Speaker 1: coming to Saint Louis in Kansas City. I'm coming to Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: New York at the Kings Theater on November eighth, and
Speaker 1: I have tickets on sale throughout the end of the
Speaker 1: year in December, so if you're in a city like
Speaker 1: Philadelphia or Bethlehem, or San Diego or New Orleans or Omaha,
Speaker 1: check Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.
Speaker 3: Okay, if you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an
Speaker 3: email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and
Speaker 3: be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is
Speaker 3: edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine in Law,
Speaker 3: and be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler
Speaker 3: dot com