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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back to the latest episode of the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci, and Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: Joe, how you doing.

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Speaker 1: The baseball season has almost run its course. We're down

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Speaker 1: to the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is playoff weather we're experiencing right now. Soci

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Speaker 3: and I used to stay beyond the batting cage where

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Speaker 3: we were at and get that kind of more brisk

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Speaker 3: automy kind of a feel, and I would say, Originally

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Speaker 3: I said this is a social I could smell football,

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Speaker 3: and here I said, no, no, no, this is playoff weather, Baseball,

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Speaker 3: playoff weather, and it is favorite time of the year

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Speaker 3: in the game. You work so hard to get to

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Speaker 3: that point where you're in position to get to the playoffs.

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Speaker 4: But there's nothing like it. Man, did I love that?

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Speaker 3: Every moment of that, everything's ramped up, amped up a

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Speaker 3: little bit more, and I love it.

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Speaker 4: And that's what it smells like right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's no one better to put this season in

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Speaker 1: baseball in perspective. And our special guests, Joe, We've got

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Speaker 1: Bob Costas.

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Speaker 2: Here from MLB Network.

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Speaker 1: I want to say that because he's my great colleague

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Speaker 1: and when we do games together on the MLB Showcase games.

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Speaker 1: We are in Boston doing games this week, Bob, is

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Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you on this show. And I

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Speaker 1: got to start with this since we're talking about this

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Speaker 1: season here. We've talked a lot about the pitch clock

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Speaker 1: on this podcast and how it's changed the game. I

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Speaker 1: want to get your overall take on where baseball stands

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Speaker 1: in what I think is the beginning maybe of a

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Speaker 1: new era in the way the rules have changed.

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Speaker 2: The game this year and the popularity of the sport.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the rules changes have been an unmitigated success.

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Speaker 5: There may be a few people carping here and there,

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Speaker 5: a few little suggestions that might at least be plausible,

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Speaker 5: little tweaks, but by and large, this has been overwhelmingly successful.

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Speaker 5: The players have adjusted to it, the fans of adjusted

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Speaker 5: to it. You know, we did the game yesterday in

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Speaker 5: Boston two hours and forty six minutes, and that actually

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Speaker 5: seemed I turned to you at one point in the

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Speaker 5: sixth inning, I said, this seems long by today's standards,

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Speaker 5: but it still came in under three hours, and it

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Speaker 5: isn't just the average time of game. They virtually eliminated

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Speaker 5: the nine and in game that goes three and a

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Speaker 5: half hours, there are games that wind up ten to

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Speaker 5: nine and they go three hours and ten minutes. In fact,

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Speaker 5: we did one earlier this year in Saint Louis. I

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Speaker 5: forget the final score, but the Cardinals scored sixteen, so

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Speaker 5: it was sixteen to nine something like that, and it

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Speaker 5: came in at three oh three or three oh four.

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Speaker 5: No one's going to complain about that when there's that

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Speaker 5: much action and the pace within it is acceptable. It

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Speaker 5: isn't just time a game, as you've said many times, Tom,

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Speaker 5: it's pace of game, and the pace of game feels

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Speaker 5: so much better than it used to.

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Speaker 3: Could I just ask something with that right there when

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Speaker 3: you talk about the real changes, Bob, and you know

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Speaker 3: I'm into it. I like the more expedient game in

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Speaker 3: the dugout. Obviously you're standing there watching guys interminable in

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Speaker 3: between pitches, batters getting out of the box, etc. For me,

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Speaker 3: the superstar of all the rule changes is the pitch clock.

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Speaker 3: That's the one thing that I think really has had

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Speaker 3: the greatest impact on the game because I kind of

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Speaker 3: bang on some of the other things. I don't like

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Speaker 3: the three batter minimum. I don't like to run around

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Speaker 3: second base. You guys mind, but all the different things

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Speaker 3: that have occurred in our game, I still, as a

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Speaker 3: manager like to be able to strategize and create and

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Speaker 3: edge over the other guy, because if I think more

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Speaker 3: deeply or intelligently or whatever you want to describe it,

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Speaker 3: in advance of the other guy, I have an advantage.

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Speaker 3: So I still don't like run around second I don't

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Speaker 3: like three battered minimum things like that.

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Speaker 4: The bigger basis to me.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of a push. I don't necessarily like minimum

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Speaker 3: max of like two throws over the third one baker

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Speaker 3: runner proceeds to the next bag. I think this kind

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Speaker 3: of mitigates strategy. That's the part I don't like. I

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Speaker 3: think in the beginning for me, I was kind of

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Speaker 3: my opinion was to change the or put the pitch

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Speaker 3: clock in effect first, Just put it out there first,

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Speaker 3: and then if, in fact, after that we need other

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Speaker 3: kind of changes, go for it. But I thought that

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Speaker 3: was the superstar that would eventually create the thoughts that

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Speaker 3: you just articulated upon. Yes, quicker and more paced game,

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Speaker 3: more interesting game, more action pack, but I don't like

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Speaker 3: where strategy has been her tail for the manager.

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Speaker 4: That's where where I come from with that.

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Speaker 5: Well, Joe, the two you mentioned just now, we're actually

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Speaker 5: put in place in response to the plotting pace of

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Speaker 5: the game, especially the three batter minimum that's a relic

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Speaker 5: of the pre pitch clock. They could get rid of that,

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Speaker 5: and then you could still have the in game strategy.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't matter anymore if there's a mid inning pitching change,

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Speaker 5: because the game's moving at a decent pace. And the

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Speaker 5: ghost runner came in during COVID partly because they were

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Speaker 5: trying to get people off the field and not mingling

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Speaker 5: with each other. Before there were vaccines and everything else,

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Speaker 5: and now that you a have that largely removed, I mean,

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Speaker 5: COVID is completely gone, but there's an entirely different response

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Speaker 5: to it now, and the ballparks are filled and people

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Speaker 5: are conducting themselves differently, so you don't have the COVID

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Speaker 5: reason to get a game over quickly in extra innings,

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Speaker 5: and if the game's moving at a decent pace, at

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Speaker 5: the very least, you could play the tenth and maybe

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Speaker 5: the eleventh before you put a ghost runner in. The

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Speaker 5: other objection to playing a long game is. As you know,

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Speaker 5: your fellow managers don't want to blow out their pitching staff,

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Speaker 5: so they don't want an eighteen any game. But I

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Speaker 5: don't want to see real baseball abandoned as soon as

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Speaker 5: you go to the tenth inning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel the same way with these extra inning stuff.

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Speaker 3: I thought, if you want to do something like that,

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Speaker 3: play the tenth INNY normally put a run run first

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Speaker 3: in the eleventh and then put eventually the runner on

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Speaker 3: second in the twelve, if that is that important. But

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Speaker 3: like you just kind of suggest there, the pitch clock

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Speaker 3: in and of itself really kind of again mitigates all

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Speaker 3: the concerns.

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Speaker 4: With these other role changes.

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Speaker 3: I believe that from the beginning you may you probably

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Speaker 3: will see a little bit of an uptick if in fact,

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Speaker 3: you eliminate the three batter minimum. But I'm here to

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Speaker 3: tell you man, as a manager in the dugout and

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Speaker 3: the latter part of the game, you got to throw

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Speaker 3: out there and have to think of in blocks of three,

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Speaker 3: and it could be difficult because there's something there you

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Speaker 3: really don't like, but you got to eat it anyway.

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Speaker 4: You got to eat it.

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Speaker 3: You gotta let him pitture this guy, you don't like it,

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Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden, you know, Bob's runkle.

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Speaker 4: Everything changes at that particular point.

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Speaker 3: So that's the kind of stuff that I don't think

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Speaker 3: has been talked about enough. It's yeah, it's it's been great.

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Speaker 3: It's more athletic. Different teams have demonstrated that the teams

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Speaker 3: that have built been built athletically to demonstrate and actually

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Speaker 3: take advantage of these role changes. But overall, I would

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Speaker 3: love to see that. You know, if the manager still

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Speaker 3: is pertinent, if the manager is no longer pertinent, then

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Speaker 3: that this this is mood point. But manager's pertinent, you

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Speaker 3: got to permit him tools to strategize during the course

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Speaker 3: of the game and completely take it out of his hands.

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Speaker 3: Based on even run around second base, man, you lose

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Speaker 3: games in extraining. Say what was padres er and.

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Speaker 4: Eleven this year?

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Speaker 3: Something stupid like that earlier run around second base? Now,

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Speaker 3: I mean a lot of that could just be purely

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Speaker 3: some happenstance.

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Speaker 4: Luck. I don't even know if he could strategize for that.

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Speaker 4: It's just a matter of your hitter gets a hit

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Speaker 4: or not. So these are the.

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Speaker 3: Kind of things that I, as the game's gotten into

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Speaker 3: a better pace. I'd like to see this revisit it

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Speaker 3: possibly and maybe relax some of these are take these

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Speaker 3: away and just play a greater pace game, which was

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Speaker 3: the game we grew up with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just to give our listeners some numbers here about

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Speaker 1: the changes in the game this year. The average time

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Speaker 1: of game that Bob reference has gone from three to zero,

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Speaker 1: three to two thirty nine.

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Speaker 2: It's shaving twenty four minutes off the game.

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Speaker 1: The time between balls in play, that's the big one, right,

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Speaker 1: that's gone from three minutes forty two seconds to three twelve.

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Speaker 2: That's a big change.

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Speaker 1: As far as the shift goes, Batting average on ground

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Speaker 1: balls by left handed hitters, yeah, that's specific, but those

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Speaker 1: are the ones harmed the most by the shift went

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Speaker 1: from two twenty six to two forty. It's a lot

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Speaker 1: more singles in the game that came back. And stolen

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Speaker 1: base attempts went from point six to eight per game

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Speaker 1: to point nine to zero, with the highest percentage of

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Speaker 1: success rate eighty percent up from seventy five percent. So

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Speaker 1: it's had a meaningful effect on how the game is played. Bob,

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Speaker 1: my question for you is does this translate now into

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Speaker 1: a more attractive game where I don't want to say

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Speaker 1: baseball needs to come back, but games maybe some new

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Speaker 1: people following the game is specifically younger people. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we just saw a Monday night football game that drew

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Speaker 1: twenty two million viewers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the World Series would kill for that kind of.

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Speaker 1: A number, right, right, And I'm not saying baseball can

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Speaker 1: get those kind numbers. But is this the start maybe

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Speaker 1: of baseball getting back some of the fans that it

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Speaker 1: had lost with that slower pace.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the early returns are good. I don't know if

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Speaker 5: they have definitive data yet, but the anecdotal stuff is

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Speaker 5: good and attendance is up. But of course some of

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Speaker 5: that is coming out of the COVID circumstance, and that's

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Speaker 5: always affected by how teams in certain markets are doing.

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Speaker 5: So you need more seasons really to evaluate it. Let's

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Speaker 5: say if you're a Cardinal fan and somebody says, do

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Speaker 5: you like the new rules?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Are you as interested in baseball this year?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 5: Because the Cardinals are lousy this year? So that how

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Speaker 5: your own team is doing? Yankee fans, when as Jim Cott,

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Speaker 5: our old buddy used to put it, every game against

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Speaker 5: the Red Sox was four hours of drama and trauma.

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Speaker 5: Yankee fans would would trade a fast paced game in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty three for Joe Torre's teams in the nineties

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Speaker 5: and in the early two thousands, even if the game

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Speaker 5: took five hours. So there's a lot of kind of

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Speaker 5: overlapping factors here, but I think generally speaking, the reaction

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Speaker 5: to this has been good. And here's something that will matter.

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Speaker 5: Postseason games used to be even longer than pre pitchclock

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Speaker 5: regular season games, and some of that meant that the

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Speaker 5: most important games were going past midnight on the East Coast,

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Speaker 5: and that might be the third of three games or

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Speaker 5: on television that day in the early rounds of the playoffs,

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Speaker 5: and the casual fan can't commit to that much. So

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Speaker 5: if the games are moving at a brisker pace, especially

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Speaker 5: in October, maybe the ratings will reflect that.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 3: Another thing with that, I mean a part of that

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Speaker 3: is trips to the mound. Yeah, and you know that's

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Speaker 3: not given enough credit there to how they have curtailed

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Speaker 3: the trips to the mound. I mean that little PitchCom

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Speaker 3: device stealing of signs, that's where that's where the trips

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Speaker 3: to the mound came in when you thought somebody might

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Speaker 3: be onto you, and all of a sudden, Pasada's going

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Speaker 3: out there every other pitch. So that's that's another, not

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Speaker 3: necessarily a rule change, but in addition, technologically speaking, that

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Speaker 3: I think is a good one, the fact that that

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Speaker 3: is occurring, because I'll tell you one thing from a

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Speaker 3: this is kind of around this, but from a managerial perspective.

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Speaker 3: For me, one of the things I hate it most

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Speaker 3: was miss signs, miss signs.

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Speaker 4: And normally that wouldn't occur.

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Speaker 3: There to be a confusion or change up once in

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Speaker 3: a while regarding picture and catchers. But when you could

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Speaker 3: get signs transmitted more quickly and not be concerned about

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Speaker 3: people watching it, and feel comfortable that you know what

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Speaker 3: you're going to do that nobody knows in advance, that's

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Speaker 3: a good feeling. So I think that hasn't gotten enough credit.

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Speaker 3: The little device that accelerates the communication between the picture

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Speaker 3: and the catcher. To me, that that's as big as

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Speaker 3: anything else that's been done.

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Speaker 2: Well said.

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Speaker 1: Hey, listen, we love to talk about the struggle on

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Speaker 1: this podcast, right, not so much the success, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: you remember at least that the struggle can be even

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Speaker 1: more enjoyable.

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Speaker 2: Than the success.

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Speaker 1: When we get back after this quick break, I want

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Speaker 1: to ask Bob Costas about the struggle, because I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there must have been a time as successful as Bob

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Speaker 1: has been when there was a struggle.

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Speaker 2: We'll dive into that right after this. All right, Joe,

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Speaker 2: There's probably.

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Speaker 1: Been no broadcaster as successful as Bob Costas. He's the

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Speaker 1: only person who is when Emmy's both in well all

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Speaker 1: in sports, news and entertainment. He's been everywhere, done everything.

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Speaker 1: His voice is synonymous with big events, and I gotta believe,

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Speaker 1: as you talked about, Joe and your journey through the

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Speaker 1: minor leagues and some of the disappointments that you look

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Speaker 1: back on at least as with some fine memories and

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Speaker 1: the learning that came about then, that there's got to

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Speaker 1: be those points for Bob Costas. So, Bob, I don't

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Speaker 1: know where this goes back to the spirit of Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis or when you began, did you have any idea

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Speaker 1: that there was a question of whether you were forget

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Speaker 1: about being as successful as you are, but be able

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Speaker 1: to make this as a career.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, at the very beginning. I've told this story before,

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Speaker 5: but not often being at Syracuse and in their already

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Speaker 5: acclaimed communications and journalism school. I wanted to be a broadcaster,

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Speaker 5: specifically a sports broadcaster. And it's nineteen seventy two. I'm

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Speaker 5: twenty years old. I'm in my junior year and I'm

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Speaker 5: listening to the World Series on the radio. The Reds

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Speaker 5: are in it, and Al Michaels is their young announcer,

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Speaker 5: and I'm hearing al Michaels and I'm saying, who is

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Speaker 5: this guy? And it wasn't as easy to check on

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Speaker 5: things then as now. You didn't have all the information

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Speaker 5: on your phone. And eventually I find out he's twenty

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Speaker 5: six years old, and I say to myself, I'm doomed.

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Speaker 5: How can I in six years be half as good

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Speaker 5: as this guy is. He's unbelievably good. So until you

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Speaker 5: do something and get some kind of positive of reinforcement,

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Speaker 5: then you always have doubt. When I was a senior

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Speaker 5: at Syracuse, I got a job for thirty bucks a

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Speaker 5: game doing minor league hockey in the old Eastern Hockey League,

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Speaker 5: the Slap Shot League, the league that the Paul Newman

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Speaker 5: movie was based on. And there was some good feedback

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Speaker 5: from that, and then almost immediately I land in St.

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Speaker 5: Louis doing the Spirits and there was good feedback from that.

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Speaker 5: And I'm at KMOX with Jack Buck and Dan Kelly,

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Speaker 5: the legendary hockey announcer and all the history there, and

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Speaker 5: I was pretty well accepted. So I had a pretty

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Speaker 5: easy ride early on. To be honest, it wasn't much

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Speaker 5: of a struggle, and I look back on it, I

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Speaker 5: was having the time of my life. I was learning

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Speaker 5: and getting better, but at least I was good enough

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Speaker 5: to be where I was at that time. I don't

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Speaker 5: know if you call it a struggle, but it was

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Speaker 5: a little bit of an obstacle. When I started doing TV,

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Speaker 5: I looked so young. I was twenty four when I

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Speaker 5: did my first game for CBS. I was twenty seven

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Speaker 5: when NBC hired me full time. And I remember occasionally

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Speaker 5: some of these games pop up on YouTube and you

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Speaker 5: don't even know it's you. You know, Eagles against Colts

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Speaker 5: nineteen eighty three, and you pop on it just to

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Speaker 5: see for five said, wait a minute, that's me with

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Speaker 5: Bob Trumpy, and I can hear that. I'm consciously trying

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Speaker 5: to sound more authoritative to counterbalance the fact that I

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Speaker 5: looked like such a kid. And Don Omeyer ran NBC

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Speaker 5: Sports when I got there. He is one of the

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Speaker 5: most charismatic figures at that time in sports television. Protege

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Speaker 5: of Ruine Aleje and he called me into his office

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Speaker 5: and he said, you know, we think you have a

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Speaker 5: future here. We like your work. How old are you again?

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Speaker 5: And I said, I'm twenty seven. He said, damn it,

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Speaker 5: you look like you're fourteen. How much older do you

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Speaker 5: think you would look if you grew a beard? That

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Speaker 5: was his actual idea. And I said five years easy,

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Speaker 5: and he said five years really. I said yeah, because

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Speaker 5: that's how long it would take to grow it. So

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Speaker 5: that went out the window. And later later I was

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Speaker 5: playing golf with him. We were in Hawaii to do

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Speaker 5: the Hula Bowl and I'm playing golf with him and

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Speaker 5: I'm telling them stories and I'm cracking jokes, and he

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Speaker 5: said something very insightful. He said, if you never change,

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Speaker 5: you'll have a career. But if you let your personality

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Speaker 5: come out like you're doing with me here on the

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Speaker 5: golf course, then you'll have a much better career. And

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Speaker 5: right after that, I made my first appearance on the

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Speaker 5: David Letterman Show. They were looking for Marv Albert to

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Speaker 5: do one of David's stunt things. It was elevator races,

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Speaker 5: and he had people from the audience take fake Olympic torches,

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Speaker 5: run down the hall, get on the elevator, go down

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Speaker 5: to the street at thirty rock, go around the building,

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Speaker 5: come back, send the elevator, get in the studio before

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Speaker 5: the show ended, and whoever had won would get like

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Speaker 5: a laurel wreath and a fake gold medal. And I

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Speaker 5: knew exactly what he wanted. He wanted like a mock

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Speaker 5: serious Olympian broadcast of this, and so I did it

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Speaker 5: and it got laughs, and Letterman says to me, you know,

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Speaker 5: he didn't even know who I was. He introduced me

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Speaker 5: as Bob Costasaw, but he liked it. And that was

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Speaker 5: such reinforcement what Olmira had said was correct, And you know,

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Speaker 5: I got a good response with Letterman. And after that

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Speaker 5: I hooked up with Tony Kubeck on the Game of

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Speaker 5: the Week and Tony and I were a good team.

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Speaker 5: So you know, you get that kind of reinforcement that

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Speaker 5: I don't know if the word is struggle, but it

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Speaker 5: was getting past that hurdle of not trying to sound

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Speaker 5: just like an authoritarian, generic announcer. But being yourself. Clearing

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Speaker 5: that hurdle was the big thing for me.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly you know. I get a lot of times.

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Speaker 3: Even this morning, you got a text from me, a

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Speaker 3: young coach wanting advice on different things, and almost one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent of the time, not almost one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: of the time, the first piece of advice I try

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Speaker 3: to give is, please be yourself. I think everybody tries

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Speaker 3: to be a contrived version of themselves. When your career

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Speaker 3: gets accelerated, you're doing something different or new. As a

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Speaker 3: major league manager, I mean even as a coach coming up,

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Speaker 3: I saw different guys end up in that seat and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, man, who.

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Speaker 4: Is that guy?

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Speaker 3: It's not the same guy I had known as a coach.

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Speaker 3: As an example, and that authentic self doesn't come forward.

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Speaker 3: I think what you're talking about cannot agree with you more.

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Speaker 3: Is that that authenticity that came out just by being

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Speaker 3: Bob Costas. And that's what I try to tell these

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Speaker 3: guys that are again, whether it's David Ross or Rock

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Speaker 3: Wobald Delli and now Brandon Hyde is doing a great job.

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Speaker 3: And of course David Martinez, like more than anything, man,

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Speaker 3: just just go out there, be yourself, bring you to

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Speaker 3: bear because you don't have to practice that, you don't

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Speaker 3: have to think about that. It's going to come through

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Speaker 3: all the time. And yeah, that's always the first piece

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Speaker 3: of advice I give to young coaches that.

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Speaker 4: Are attempting to accelerate their career, move up on the

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Speaker 4: lad or whatever is.

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Speaker 3: Please just be yourself and realize authenticity plays Bob.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's probably a similar advice you give to

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Speaker 1: young broadcasters, because I'm sure they reach out to you

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Speaker 1: all the time. And it brings me back to something

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Speaker 1: Vin Scully said, and I think it was Red Barber

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Speaker 1: who told him, you know, be yourself. Don't water your

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Speaker 1: own wine. In other words, don't try to copy someone else.

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Speaker 1: You can certainly learn from professionals who are established, but

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Speaker 1: to change or amend your style to be more like

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Speaker 1: someone else and less like yourself is a mistake. So

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Speaker 1: give us some kind of the ideas of what you

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Speaker 1: give young announcers college kids when they come to you

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Speaker 1: for advice.

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Speaker 5: This is really old school, but one of the things

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Speaker 5: I tell him is learned as much about the world

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Speaker 5: as you can. And I'm not expecting everybody to read

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Speaker 5: the one hundred greatest books ever written. I regret to

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Speaker 5: say that I haven't read half of them. But we

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Speaker 5: grew up reading newspapers and magazines and listening to literate

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Speaker 5: broadcasters like Vin Scully, like Jack Whitaker. I think of

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Speaker 5: a guy like Jack Buck. His style was not flowery

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Speaker 5: or poetic, but he had lived an interesting life. He

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Speaker 5: was wounded during World War Two at the bridge at Remagen.

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Speaker 5: He grew up who worked for a WHI file on

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Speaker 5: ships in a shipyard in Ohio. He was one of

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Speaker 5: like eight kids, kind of a hard scrabble youth. He

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Speaker 5: had a little bit of a rat pack sensibility.

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Speaker 4: He was a.

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Speaker 5: Sentimental man, but he also had a little bit of

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Speaker 5: that Frank Sinatra kind of kind of let's have a

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Speaker 5: good time, wink wink sort of thing going on. And

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Speaker 5: so there was a texture to Jack Buck in his broadcasts.

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Speaker 5: A lot of guys master kind of the generic aspect

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Speaker 5: of it, but they don't have enough of a view

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Speaker 5: of the game of the world, rather beyond the game. Again,

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Speaker 5: I'm not saying you have to be alistair cook on PBS,

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Speaker 5: but some sort of frame of reference, some sort of

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Speaker 5: ability to turn a phrase or someone mentioned something yesterday

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Speaker 5: on our broadcast. JP Barrossi, who speaks five or six

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Speaker 5: different languages, fluently made a mention when John Schneider came

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Speaker 5: into the game, the word Schneider is a reference. Is

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Speaker 5: a writer means writer in German. And he related that

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Speaker 5: to you, and then it clicked in my head some

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Speaker 5: story about al Michaels who used a German phrase to

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Speaker 5: humorous effect when he was doing the San Francisco Giants.

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Speaker 5: Just having a slightly broader view of the world, which

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Speaker 5: comes with time, yes, but I think also young people

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Speaker 5: now are on their devices all the time and they're

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Speaker 5: just not grasping as much of what's out there in

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Speaker 5: the world as we grew up, not consciously doing it,

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Speaker 5: but it was just the world that we grew up

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Speaker 5: in that kind of gave us a little bit more

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Speaker 5: of a frame of reference than just the game, if

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Speaker 5: that makes any sense.

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Speaker 2: Bob, it's so funny that, yes it does.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny you said that, and maybe not ironic

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Speaker 1: that I actually give the same advice when I hear

437
00:21:50,158 --> 00:21:53,918
Speaker 1: from aspiring writers and broadcasters, I tell them read as

438
00:21:53,998 --> 00:21:57,358
Speaker 1: much as you can, not just about the sport or

439
00:21:57,398 --> 00:22:01,158
Speaker 1: sports that you're so interested in make yourself a better

440
00:22:01,198 --> 00:22:04,838
Speaker 1: citizen of the world period, and actually will make you

441
00:22:05,158 --> 00:22:07,718
Speaker 1: a better writer and a broadcast.

442
00:22:07,278 --> 00:22:07,718
Speaker 2: Right, Joe.

443
00:22:07,718 --> 00:22:09,278
Speaker 1: It kind of reminds you of what we talk about

444
00:22:09,318 --> 00:22:11,318
Speaker 1: a lot here when it comes to diversity of the

445
00:22:11,358 --> 00:22:15,638
Speaker 1: game and diversity of knowledge. That liberal arts education if

446
00:22:15,638 --> 00:22:17,358
Speaker 1: you will, you don't have to go to Lafayette to

447
00:22:17,398 --> 00:22:21,638
Speaker 1: get it. But having that wider perspective I think serves

448
00:22:21,678 --> 00:22:24,318
Speaker 1: all in an age where, let's face it, people love

449
00:22:24,438 --> 00:22:28,078
Speaker 1: to specialize and sometimes you know, as good as that

450
00:22:28,238 --> 00:22:31,398
Speaker 1: is and as rewarding as it can be, I think

451
00:22:31,438 --> 00:22:35,278
Speaker 1: having that broader perspective no matter what you do, is valuable.

452
00:22:35,638 --> 00:22:38,038
Speaker 3: We talked about the liberal arts version of baseball, right,

453
00:22:38,118 --> 00:22:41,118
Speaker 3: I mean today I think it's everybody wants to specialize

454
00:22:41,198 --> 00:22:43,918
Speaker 3: so much on one side. I mean, analytics to me

455
00:22:44,558 --> 00:22:47,638
Speaker 3: presents one side. Of course, if you want to use

456
00:22:47,638 --> 00:22:49,838
Speaker 3: the term old school, I like to be in school.

457
00:22:50,438 --> 00:22:53,518
Speaker 3: But when you get so polarized one side or the

458
00:22:53,518 --> 00:22:56,518
Speaker 3: other and you lose that balance between the two, you're

459
00:22:56,838 --> 00:22:58,958
Speaker 3: just going to be less than you need to. We

460
00:22:59,038 --> 00:23:03,798
Speaker 3: need to utilize all methods of educating ourselves and for

461
00:23:04,038 --> 00:23:06,558
Speaker 3: me as a liberal arts guy from Lafayete College. That's

462
00:23:06,558 --> 00:23:07,918
Speaker 3: what I used to tell my highs. I don't even

463
00:23:07,958 --> 00:23:09,958
Speaker 3: have to understood me, but I want a liberal arts

464
00:23:09,958 --> 00:23:13,038
Speaker 3: method of playing baseball. I want it all. I want power,

465
00:23:13,318 --> 00:23:15,478
Speaker 3: I want the ability to move a runner. I want

466
00:23:15,518 --> 00:23:17,038
Speaker 3: I want to accept your walk. I don't want you

467
00:23:17,078 --> 00:23:19,158
Speaker 3: to not to chase pitches as a pitch. I want

468
00:23:19,158 --> 00:23:21,198
Speaker 3: you to know to shape your pitches, how to you

469
00:23:21,238 --> 00:23:24,118
Speaker 3: know elevate in when it's necessary on basis, I want

470
00:23:24,118 --> 00:23:25,478
Speaker 3: you to take a great secondary lead.

471
00:23:25,478 --> 00:23:27,238
Speaker 4: I want you to dance on balls in the dirt.

472
00:23:27,438 --> 00:23:29,078
Speaker 3: I want I want you to do it all quite

473
00:23:29,078 --> 00:23:31,038
Speaker 3: frankly and in today's game.

474
00:23:31,158 --> 00:23:32,398
Speaker 4: And I know this for a fact.

475
00:23:33,398 --> 00:23:35,038
Speaker 3: And when I went to the Angels, I was told

476
00:23:35,238 --> 00:23:36,958
Speaker 3: bunny and base running were not taught in the minor

477
00:23:37,038 --> 00:23:40,158
Speaker 3: leagues for the couple three years prior to getting there,

478
00:23:40,238 --> 00:23:44,158
Speaker 3: and more time is spent on you know, launch, angle, exit, velocity,

479
00:23:44,198 --> 00:23:46,638
Speaker 3: spinning the ball to the top of the strike zone thanks

480
00:23:46,638 --> 00:23:50,318
Speaker 3: to that nature where the real game was not being taught.

481
00:23:50,358 --> 00:23:53,438
Speaker 3: And Tommy and I have talked about this often on

482
00:23:53,478 --> 00:23:56,718
Speaker 3: these podcasts and in the Book of Joe, where when

483
00:23:56,718 --> 00:23:59,398
Speaker 3: you watch a game. You'll see avoid in these certain

484
00:23:59,398 --> 00:24:02,478
Speaker 3: areas because guys just not have have not been schooled

485
00:24:02,478 --> 00:24:05,198
Speaker 3: on it. It's not been part of the liberal arts

486
00:24:05,198 --> 00:24:09,878
Speaker 3: process of getting there. So for me, I really as

487
00:24:09,918 --> 00:24:14,078
Speaker 3: a manager, a field instructor, field coordinator for so many years,

488
00:24:14,558 --> 00:24:16,838
Speaker 3: I believe that I believe you need to teach every

489
00:24:16,918 --> 00:24:19,398
Speaker 3: aspect of the game. Of course, some guys are better

490
00:24:19,798 --> 00:24:21,918
Speaker 3: at some part than others. We get that, and there's

491
00:24:21,918 --> 00:24:23,518
Speaker 3: the complementary component of a team.

492
00:24:23,998 --> 00:24:25,958
Speaker 4: But I want.

493
00:24:25,758 --> 00:24:29,158
Speaker 3: Everybody to be exposed, be exposed to this, understand this,

494
00:24:29,518 --> 00:24:31,558
Speaker 3: and then again you can understand the other guy's role

495
00:24:31,558 --> 00:24:33,958
Speaker 3: even a little bit better because of that. But I

496
00:24:33,998 --> 00:24:36,478
Speaker 3: am all about liberal arts and liberal arts in our game,

497
00:24:36,558 --> 00:24:39,718
Speaker 3: and that's my concern that it's getting too specialized at

498
00:24:39,718 --> 00:24:41,998
Speaker 3: the point that the entire game is not being taught.

499
00:24:42,198 --> 00:24:44,198
Speaker 5: And you get a sameness out of that.

500
00:24:44,518 --> 00:24:45,318
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

501
00:24:45,518 --> 00:24:47,718
Speaker 5: We talked about the pace of play and everything else,

502
00:24:48,038 --> 00:24:51,118
Speaker 5: but when the game doesn't have a fuller texture to

503
00:24:51,158 --> 00:24:54,118
Speaker 5: it correct home runs are great, certain aspects of the

504
00:24:54,158 --> 00:24:56,758
Speaker 5: game are great, but the game at its best has

505
00:24:56,798 --> 00:24:59,558
Speaker 5: a texture to it where there's a place for a

506
00:24:59,598 --> 00:25:01,838
Speaker 5: singles hitter who can lay down a bond and plays

507
00:25:01,878 --> 00:25:05,838
Speaker 5: good defense and can run, and maybe, and maybe the

508
00:25:05,878 --> 00:25:08,118
Speaker 5: ops isn't the be all and end all if you

509
00:25:08,198 --> 00:25:11,798
Speaker 5: have other other elements to your lineup that take care

510
00:25:11,798 --> 00:25:14,558
Speaker 5: of that. But this guy plays a certain role. And

511
00:25:14,598 --> 00:25:16,718
Speaker 5: as you know better than anybody, Joe, or at least

512
00:25:16,718 --> 00:25:20,238
Speaker 5: as well as anybody, you get into big September games,

513
00:25:20,358 --> 00:25:23,438
Speaker 5: you get into the postseason against good pitching. If you

514
00:25:23,518 --> 00:25:25,958
Speaker 5: can't play small ball, even if you don't want to

515
00:25:25,958 --> 00:25:28,558
Speaker 5: play small ball for one sixty two. If you can't

516
00:25:28,598 --> 00:25:31,358
Speaker 5: play small ball, if you can't do the little things

517
00:25:31,398 --> 00:25:35,198
Speaker 5: that you just alluded to, that's not winning baseball. But

518
00:25:35,278 --> 00:25:38,238
Speaker 5: it's also even to the casual fan. If there's a

519
00:25:38,398 --> 00:25:42,678
Speaker 5: sameness to it, it gets monotonous. You think about the NBA.

520
00:25:43,158 --> 00:25:45,078
Speaker 5: I came out of the ABA, which is where the

521
00:25:45,598 --> 00:25:48,558
Speaker 5: three pointer started. I love the three pointer, but it

522
00:25:48,678 --> 00:25:51,998
Speaker 5: used to be a punctuation and an exclamation. When you

523
00:25:52,038 --> 00:25:55,318
Speaker 5: watch a game now and the teams combine no joke

524
00:25:55,598 --> 00:25:58,918
Speaker 5: for seventy three point attempts in a game. I know,

525
00:25:58,998 --> 00:26:02,278
Speaker 5: the analytics say, what's obvious, make forty percent of threes.

526
00:26:02,318 --> 00:26:05,478
Speaker 5: That's better than making fifty percent of time. Two people

527
00:26:05,558 --> 00:26:09,158
Speaker 5: get that, But the game has a certain sameness to it.

528
00:26:09,158 --> 00:26:12,358
Speaker 5: It misses all the elements that make it appealing. And

529
00:26:12,398 --> 00:26:15,278
Speaker 5: then a guy like Jokic comes along and he he's

530
00:26:15,358 --> 00:26:20,118
Speaker 5: like a bigger Larry Bird, and fans embrace that because

531
00:26:20,358 --> 00:26:23,678
Speaker 5: he brings other elements into the game and they're enjoyable elements.

532
00:26:23,958 --> 00:26:27,998
Speaker 1: Hey, Bobby, you and I both remember Vince Scully talking

533
00:26:27,998 --> 00:26:31,558
Speaker 1: about when he was a kid sitting underneath or actually

534
00:26:31,638 --> 00:26:34,798
Speaker 1: laying on the floor a console radio and listening to

535
00:26:34,918 --> 00:26:37,438
Speaker 1: some of the great voices like Graham mcnamy and hearing

536
00:26:37,478 --> 00:26:40,678
Speaker 1: the rary of the crowd, and that's where his dream began.

537
00:26:41,438 --> 00:26:43,158
Speaker 2: Where did your dream begin?

538
00:26:43,878 --> 00:26:45,758
Speaker 5: I was lucky enough to grow up in New York,

539
00:26:45,838 --> 00:26:49,398
Speaker 5: on Long Island, actually in a golden age of sports broadcasters.

540
00:26:49,798 --> 00:26:52,478
Speaker 5: Red Barber had left the Brooklyn Dodgers, so he and

541
00:26:52,558 --> 00:26:56,958
Speaker 5: Mel Allen were the Yankee voices, and Marty Glickman was

542
00:26:56,998 --> 00:27:01,158
Speaker 5: calling the Knicks on the radio and the Giants as

543
00:27:01,198 --> 00:27:04,678
Speaker 5: well in football. And Marty was the first, actually the

544
00:27:04,718 --> 00:27:09,238
Speaker 5: first significant jock turned broadcaster, and not as an analyst

545
00:27:09,278 --> 00:27:12,238
Speaker 5: or color man, but as a top level play by playman.

546
00:27:12,558 --> 00:27:14,918
Speaker 5: He'd been on the nineteen thirty six Olympic team as

547
00:27:14,918 --> 00:27:18,398
Speaker 5: a sprinter with Jesse Owens, and he played basketball and

548
00:27:18,438 --> 00:27:22,798
Speaker 5: football at Syracuse. He was the guy who he was

549
00:27:22,878 --> 00:27:27,398
Speaker 5: Marv Albert's tutor. In effect, Marvus his apprentice, kept stats

550
00:27:27,518 --> 00:27:30,758
Speaker 5: and occasionally filled in when Marty had another assignment. So

551
00:27:31,078 --> 00:27:33,198
Speaker 5: I'm listening to the young Marv Albert, I'm listening to

552
00:27:33,238 --> 00:27:37,238
Speaker 5: Marty Glickman, and to me, those voices. Lindsey Nelson was

553
00:27:37,238 --> 00:27:39,278
Speaker 5: the primary voice of the Mets when they came into

554
00:27:39,358 --> 00:27:42,998
Speaker 5: existence in sixty two, and for a very short time

555
00:27:43,038 --> 00:27:45,518
Speaker 5: in the early sixties, we actually lived in Los Angeles

556
00:27:45,678 --> 00:27:49,678
Speaker 5: and I was a transistor radio kid listening to Vin Scully,

557
00:27:50,318 --> 00:27:53,998
Speaker 5: and to me, that's games had a melody to them.

558
00:27:54,638 --> 00:27:59,118
Speaker 5: It wasn't just reporting, however, accurately, they had a melody

559
00:27:59,198 --> 00:28:03,118
Speaker 5: to them. Scully personified that nobody was like Scully in

560
00:28:03,158 --> 00:28:07,038
Speaker 5: that respect, but in his own way, Red Barber and

561
00:28:07,478 --> 00:28:10,598
Speaker 5: Vin learned so much from Red and Mel Allen, those

562
00:28:10,638 --> 00:28:13,638
Speaker 5: old school broadcasters. There was a lilt to their voice.

563
00:28:14,758 --> 00:28:17,598
Speaker 5: They gave the game a sound track, and I didn't

564
00:28:17,598 --> 00:28:19,398
Speaker 5: know if I could become one of them, but to me,

565
00:28:19,878 --> 00:28:23,558
Speaker 5: their voices were inseparable from the games. So I'd be

566
00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:26,398
Speaker 5: playing whiffle ball, or throwing a tennis ball off a wall,

567
00:28:26,638 --> 00:28:29,118
Speaker 5: or shooting baskets, even by myself in a school yard,

568
00:28:29,478 --> 00:28:32,518
Speaker 5: and I would hear their voices, and I thought, well, maybe,

569
00:28:32,638 --> 00:28:34,718
Speaker 5: if I'm really lucky, I can become one of them.

570
00:28:35,398 --> 00:28:38,038
Speaker 2: And what did your parents think, I mean, if did

571
00:28:38,038 --> 00:28:39,838
Speaker 2: you mention that to them, that hey, this is what

572
00:28:39,878 --> 00:28:40,438
Speaker 2: I want to do.

573
00:28:40,518 --> 00:28:43,078
Speaker 1: Because you know, a lot of times a parent will

574
00:28:43,078 --> 00:28:46,798
Speaker 1: look at the odds of their child accomplishing something and say, well,

575
00:28:46,998 --> 00:28:48,478
Speaker 1: maybe you want to come up with a plan.

576
00:28:48,558 --> 00:28:51,438
Speaker 5: B My father thought that it was kind of a

577
00:28:51,478 --> 00:28:56,558
Speaker 5: far fetched dream, and he encouraged me. He died when

578
00:28:56,598 --> 00:28:59,038
Speaker 5: he was only forty two. I was eighteen, but I'd

579
00:28:59,038 --> 00:29:01,518
Speaker 5: been accepted at Syracuse about a month before he had

580
00:29:01,518 --> 00:29:04,558
Speaker 5: a heart attack and died. And his advice was, yeah,

581
00:29:04,878 --> 00:29:07,278
Speaker 5: pursue that if you want, Robert, And when he was

582
00:29:07,318 --> 00:29:10,518
Speaker 5: being serious, he called me Robert instead of Bobby. Pursue

583
00:29:10,558 --> 00:29:12,998
Speaker 5: that if you want. But why don't you major in

584
00:29:13,118 --> 00:29:14,918
Speaker 5: something like And I don't know why he thought this

585
00:29:14,958 --> 00:29:19,318
Speaker 5: would be a good thing, something like criminal justice. Somehow,

586
00:29:19,318 --> 00:29:21,958
Speaker 5: I don't see myself as a g man putting the

587
00:29:22,038 --> 00:29:25,358
Speaker 5: pinch on some gangster. But he thought that was more

588
00:29:25,398 --> 00:29:28,278
Speaker 5: practical and I could practice broadcasting.

589
00:29:27,758 --> 00:29:28,358
Speaker 4: On the side.

590
00:29:28,518 --> 00:29:30,478
Speaker 1: You could have been the next elliot Ness instead of

591
00:29:30,478 --> 00:29:31,358
Speaker 1: the next Vin Scully.

592
00:29:31,718 --> 00:29:31,918
Speaker 4: Right.

593
00:29:33,678 --> 00:29:36,358
Speaker 5: Somehow, I don't think I fit the Robert sat mold.

594
00:29:38,358 --> 00:29:39,958
Speaker 2: So we're gonna take a quick break.

595
00:29:39,998 --> 00:29:42,038
Speaker 1: But you know, we were doing the game at Fenway

596
00:29:42,118 --> 00:29:45,478
Speaker 1: Park for MLB Network, and I'm thinking to myself, Man,

597
00:29:45,558 --> 00:29:47,718
Speaker 1: this is such a treat being in Fenway Park. And

598
00:29:47,758 --> 00:29:49,838
Speaker 1: then I looked to my left and I see Bob Costas,

599
00:29:49,878 --> 00:29:52,158
Speaker 1: who's been literally around the world in some of the

600
00:29:52,158 --> 00:29:55,758
Speaker 1: best places to call or watch a sporting event.

601
00:29:55,958 --> 00:29:58,518
Speaker 2: So let's go around the world with Bob when.

602
00:29:58,358 --> 00:30:11,318
Speaker 1: We get back right after this, Welcome back to the

603
00:30:11,358 --> 00:30:15,118
Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast with I guess Bob Costas and Bobby.

604
00:30:15,238 --> 00:30:17,998
Speaker 1: You know I mentioned this, you've literally been around the world.

605
00:30:18,078 --> 00:30:22,638
Speaker 1: I mean you've done, of course, the Olympics, boxing, the NFL,

606
00:30:22,838 --> 00:30:26,958
Speaker 1: horse racing, the NBA, NFL golf.

607
00:30:27,078 --> 00:30:30,598
Speaker 2: NASCAR, which I don't remember, but I'm told that you did.

608
00:30:31,078 --> 00:30:35,158
Speaker 5: And neither do I. Sometimes Wikipedia just lists everything like

609
00:30:35,198 --> 00:30:39,838
Speaker 5: a checklist. I interviewed Dale Earnhardt once. That's it. That's

610
00:30:40,318 --> 00:30:43,118
Speaker 5: the extent of my connection to and knowledge of NASCAR.

611
00:30:43,638 --> 00:30:45,758
Speaker 2: All right, so I mentioned Fenway Park.

612
00:30:46,118 --> 00:30:48,398
Speaker 1: You know, it's just it might not be the most

613
00:30:48,438 --> 00:30:52,638
Speaker 1: comfortable venue to call an event, but just the atmosphere

614
00:30:52,718 --> 00:30:56,198
Speaker 1: there is just dripping with history and nostalgia and.

615
00:30:56,158 --> 00:30:56,838
Speaker 2: It's so cool.

616
00:30:56,958 --> 00:31:00,438
Speaker 1: So give me if you can some of your top

617
00:31:00,558 --> 00:31:04,718
Speaker 1: favorite places where you almost pinch yourself and as many

618
00:31:04,758 --> 00:31:07,238
Speaker 1: times as you might have been there that this is

619
00:31:07,278 --> 00:31:10,638
Speaker 1: a treat to be in this place doing what I'm doing.

620
00:31:10,558 --> 00:31:12,518
Speaker 5: Well, Even though I'm not much of a tennis guy,

621
00:31:12,718 --> 00:31:15,718
Speaker 5: I was at Wimbledon in the early nineteen nineties and

622
00:31:15,878 --> 00:31:20,078
Speaker 5: the history of that can't be lost on you. The

623
00:31:20,158 --> 00:31:24,438
Speaker 5: Coliseum in Los Angeles, which was a terrible place for baseball,

624
00:31:25,038 --> 00:31:27,958
Speaker 5: part of the reason why people began bringing transistor radios

625
00:31:28,038 --> 00:31:31,718
Speaker 5: because their seats were so far removed and pointed away

626
00:31:31,758 --> 00:31:34,518
Speaker 5: from the diamond they needed a transistor. Then they discovered,

627
00:31:34,518 --> 00:31:38,158
Speaker 5: wait a second, this kid, Vincecully's fantastic, so they kept

628
00:31:38,158 --> 00:31:41,918
Speaker 5: the transistors even when they moved to Dodger Stadium. Notre

629
00:31:41,998 --> 00:31:45,838
Speaker 5: Dame with a touchdown Jesus behind one of the end

630
00:31:45,918 --> 00:31:49,758
Speaker 5: zones kind of looming over everything. That's a tremendous setting.

631
00:31:51,118 --> 00:31:56,278
Speaker 5: Basketball at Duke is a tremendous setting the old Boston Garden.

632
00:31:56,638 --> 00:31:59,438
Speaker 5: I know visitors hated it with the dents in the

633
00:31:59,478 --> 00:32:02,238
Speaker 5: floor and no hot water in the shower because rad

634
00:32:02,238 --> 00:32:05,438
Speaker 5: Auerbach was trying to torment them in the visitors locker room.

635
00:32:05,678 --> 00:32:09,358
Speaker 5: But the old Boston Garden had that feel. Wrigley and Fenway,

636
00:32:09,518 --> 00:32:14,198
Speaker 5: as you say, still do. And then when we did

637
00:32:14,198 --> 00:32:18,398
Speaker 5: the Olympics in Athens in two thousand and four, you

638
00:32:18,638 --> 00:32:23,598
Speaker 5: go to the Parthenon, all that history, and then we

639
00:32:23,638 --> 00:32:25,598
Speaker 5: did a few events. I was the host, so I

640
00:32:25,638 --> 00:32:27,798
Speaker 5: wasn't at these events, but they did a few events

641
00:32:28,078 --> 00:32:32,518
Speaker 5: the shot put and one or two others at Olympia,

642
00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:39,718
Speaker 5: the original Olympic Stadium BC, that was onspiring. I didn't

643
00:32:40,078 --> 00:32:43,198
Speaker 5: go to events there, but I visited it before the

644
00:32:43,238 --> 00:32:48,758
Speaker 5: Olympics started. The Coliseum in Rome, which still stands. And

645
00:32:48,798 --> 00:32:51,518
Speaker 5: you know people talk about, Hey, I'm standing in the

646
00:32:51,558 --> 00:32:54,358
Speaker 5: old Yankee Stadium and I say, Babe, Ruth hit a

647
00:32:54,398 --> 00:32:58,078
Speaker 5: home run here. Well, you stand in the coliseum in Rome.

648
00:32:58,878 --> 00:33:04,278
Speaker 5: You know Christians were devoured by lions. There's there's some

649
00:33:04,438 --> 00:33:05,118
Speaker 5: history there.

650
00:33:05,318 --> 00:33:07,758
Speaker 1: Joe, I can't believe he didn't say the lehih Lafayette

651
00:33:07,798 --> 00:33:08,318
Speaker 1: the Big Game.

652
00:33:09,918 --> 00:33:12,438
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna go to Keill Auditorium because I

653
00:33:12,518 --> 00:33:15,318
Speaker 3: was a Saint Louis Hawks. I was a Hawks fan,

654
00:33:15,398 --> 00:33:18,038
Speaker 3: I mean before the Spirits, but the Hawks played there also, right,

655
00:33:18,118 --> 00:33:20,838
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, tell me about that. Yeah, Bob Pettitt, that

656
00:33:20,958 --> 00:33:26,558
Speaker 3: Richie Garn, Lenny Wilkins, Joe Caldwell, Bill Bridges, Wow, Dono yeah,

657
00:33:26,758 --> 00:33:28,558
Speaker 3: Walt Hazard. I could keep going on and on. That

658
00:33:28,718 --> 00:33:31,038
Speaker 3: was my group back then. That was those were my boys.

659
00:33:31,278 --> 00:33:35,278
Speaker 5: Kill Auditorium still stands. There are concerts there and occasional

660
00:33:35,278 --> 00:33:38,118
Speaker 5: sports events. When I got to Saint Louis, the Hawks

661
00:33:38,118 --> 00:33:41,838
Speaker 5: had already left for Atlanta. The Spirits of Saint Louis

662
00:33:41,918 --> 00:33:44,118
Speaker 5: or the ABA that was my team, lasted for two

663
00:33:44,198 --> 00:33:46,798
Speaker 5: years and didn't get into the merger. But Saint Louis

664
00:33:46,918 --> 00:33:51,398
Speaker 5: University played games, some of which I attended at Kill Auditorium.

665
00:33:51,998 --> 00:33:56,198
Speaker 5: I saw the Rolling Stones play at Kill Auditorium. You know,

666
00:33:56,278 --> 00:34:00,478
Speaker 5: it's an old ornate structure and it still stands in

667
00:34:00,558 --> 00:34:01,558
Speaker 5: downtown Saint Louis.

668
00:34:01,638 --> 00:34:04,718
Speaker 3: I used to get the annual from the sporting They

669
00:34:04,718 --> 00:34:08,638
Speaker 3: would have like those little books like on baseball and

670
00:34:08,958 --> 00:34:11,438
Speaker 3: the NBA. I can't remember what's exactly what they were called,

671
00:34:11,478 --> 00:34:13,358
Speaker 3: but it would just give you a run down of

672
00:34:13,398 --> 00:34:16,958
Speaker 3: each ballpark or each auditorium, like the Cow Palace in

673
00:34:16,998 --> 00:34:20,598
Speaker 3: San Francisco. Is always intrigued by the Cal Palace, Nate

674
00:34:20,638 --> 00:34:22,998
Speaker 3: Thurman and all those dudes. I mean, I mean, I

675
00:34:23,038 --> 00:34:25,878
Speaker 3: was a real NBA fan back in the sixties and seventies.

676
00:34:25,918 --> 00:34:28,158
Speaker 3: I'm not as into it as now as I had been.

677
00:34:28,198 --> 00:34:28,558
Speaker 4: Back then.

678
00:34:28,878 --> 00:34:31,038
Speaker 3: I could talk more about like Dave Bing and Bob

679
00:34:31,078 --> 00:34:34,118
Speaker 3: Lanier as I can with anybody playing today, But that

680
00:34:34,198 --> 00:34:36,238
Speaker 3: was there was a special time for me NBA wise,

681
00:34:36,238 --> 00:34:39,158
Speaker 3: And I know you're we're really connected to all that stuff.

682
00:34:39,158 --> 00:34:43,158
Speaker 3: But all the cathedral kind of auditoriums with basketball. You

683
00:34:43,198 --> 00:34:46,798
Speaker 3: mentioned the Boston Garden, Madison Square Garden, Keel cal Palace.

684
00:34:47,558 --> 00:34:50,678
Speaker 3: Did you visit Most of those those auditoriums are just

685
00:34:50,718 --> 00:34:51,558
Speaker 3: a couple.

686
00:34:51,758 --> 00:34:55,078
Speaker 5: Everyone you mentioned, except for the Cow Palace, Okay, never there,

687
00:34:55,598 --> 00:34:59,198
Speaker 5: come to think of it. When I was at Syracuse,

688
00:34:59,598 --> 00:35:03,118
Speaker 5: Archbold Stadium, which opened in nineteen oh nine, was then

689
00:35:03,278 --> 00:35:07,998
Speaker 5: the old stadium in use in all of college football.

690
00:35:08,438 --> 00:35:11,518
Speaker 5: But it also proved the adage that just because something's

691
00:35:11,558 --> 00:35:16,518
Speaker 5: old doesn't mean it's charming. No one lamented the passage

692
00:35:16,558 --> 00:35:20,038
Speaker 5: of Archbowl stadium the way they would if God forbid

693
00:35:20,078 --> 00:35:21,878
Speaker 5: Fenway or Wrigley was ever torn down.

694
00:35:21,958 --> 00:35:23,318
Speaker 4: That's awesome, man, Bob.

695
00:35:23,358 --> 00:35:26,518
Speaker 1: You mentioned the old ABA and kind of cutting your

696
00:35:26,518 --> 00:35:29,598
Speaker 1: teeth there with the spirit of Saint Louis. You got

697
00:35:29,638 --> 00:35:33,278
Speaker 1: to tell the Marvin Barvin story about travel back then

698
00:35:33,318 --> 00:35:38,278
Speaker 1: between time zones. Yeah, and I'm assuming because it's so good.

699
00:35:38,758 --> 00:35:41,598
Speaker 1: I want to believe the story is true. Oh, it's true,

700
00:35:41,638 --> 00:35:42,718
Speaker 1: and I think you might have been there.

701
00:35:43,198 --> 00:35:47,118
Speaker 5: Not only there. I'm the keeper of the flame on

702
00:35:47,158 --> 00:35:50,518
Speaker 5: this story because I was directly involved. Teams didn't travel

703
00:35:50,598 --> 00:35:53,598
Speaker 5: by charter then. Louisville is maybe a four hour drive

704
00:35:53,678 --> 00:35:55,838
Speaker 5: four and a half from Saint Louis, but it's in

705
00:35:55,878 --> 00:35:59,558
Speaker 5: the Eastern time zone. So the spirits play artist Gilmour

706
00:35:59,718 --> 00:36:03,518
Speaker 5: Danissel and the Kentucky Colonels QB. Brown is the coach,

707
00:36:04,038 --> 00:36:06,518
Speaker 5: and the next morning we gather at the airport for

708
00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:09,678
Speaker 5: an early flight back to Saint Louis. And the traveling

709
00:36:09,718 --> 00:36:13,438
Speaker 5: secretary who was also the trainer one assistant coach. You

710
00:36:13,438 --> 00:36:16,278
Speaker 5: didn't have a huge staff back then in the ABA.

711
00:36:16,958 --> 00:36:20,678
Speaker 5: The trainer hands out the itinerary and it says twa

712
00:36:20,758 --> 00:36:25,238
Speaker 5: flight three oh five depart Louisville eight AM arrived Saint

713
00:36:25,278 --> 00:36:29,198
Speaker 5: Louis seven fifty six and Marvin Barnes, who was the

714
00:36:29,198 --> 00:36:33,198
Speaker 5: star of the team All American and Providence, selected second

715
00:36:33,278 --> 00:36:37,078
Speaker 5: after Bill Walton in both the ABA and NBA drafts,

716
00:36:37,358 --> 00:36:39,918
Speaker 5: and Haddie fulfilled his potential no question, to be in

717
00:36:39,958 --> 00:36:42,758
Speaker 5: the Hall of Fame. He was very likable and very funny,

718
00:36:42,758 --> 00:36:45,878
Speaker 5: but very self destructive and passed away at the age

719
00:36:45,878 --> 00:36:49,078
Speaker 5: of sixty two or sixty three, unfortunately. And he and

720
00:36:49,078 --> 00:36:51,638
Speaker 5: I remained good friends right to the end. We were

721
00:36:51,638 --> 00:36:55,078
Speaker 5: in touch with each other. But in any case, I digress,

722
00:36:55,198 --> 00:37:00,318
Speaker 5: as I sometimes wanted to do anyway, So traveling secretary

723
00:37:00,358 --> 00:37:03,518
Speaker 5: slash trainer hands out the itinerary twa flight three oh

724
00:37:03,638 --> 00:37:06,198
Speaker 5: five apart Louisville eight A m or rich sling Lewis

725
00:37:06,198 --> 00:37:08,758
Speaker 5: seven fifty six, and Marvin Barnes walks up to me

726
00:37:09,038 --> 00:37:12,318
Speaker 5: holding the piece of paper, drapes an arm over my shoulder,

727
00:37:12,558 --> 00:37:14,398
Speaker 5: and from more than a foot above me, looks down

728
00:37:14,438 --> 00:37:17,958
Speaker 5: and says, bro, do you see this? And I said yes.

729
00:37:18,118 --> 00:37:20,478
Speaker 5: He says, well, I don't know about you, but as

730
00:37:20,478 --> 00:37:26,598
Speaker 5: for me, I am not getting on any time machine.

731
00:37:27,478 --> 00:37:30,078
Speaker 5: But here's the thing. People when they first hear this,

732
00:37:30,918 --> 00:37:34,598
Speaker 5: think that Marvin was dumb. He wasn't dumb, he was smart,

733
00:37:34,718 --> 00:37:37,118
Speaker 5: and he knew that that was funny. But he also

734
00:37:37,198 --> 00:37:39,278
Speaker 5: knew that maybe some of his teammates wouldn't get it,

735
00:37:39,318 --> 00:37:42,958
Speaker 5: but I would. That's why he's bringing the joke on me.

736
00:37:44,558 --> 00:37:46,718
Speaker 2: The struggle, right, Joe, that's right.

737
00:37:47,518 --> 00:37:47,798
Speaker 4: Yeah.

738
00:37:47,838 --> 00:37:50,518
Speaker 3: The characterist man, the guys with the senses of humor, man,

739
00:37:50,798 --> 00:37:52,678
Speaker 3: those are the ones that really make it all worthwhile.

740
00:37:52,918 --> 00:37:53,558
Speaker 4: That's good stuff.

741
00:37:53,558 --> 00:37:55,518
Speaker 1: Hey, Bob, here, when I'm doing a game with you,

742
00:37:55,598 --> 00:37:57,878
Speaker 1: I wonder about this sometimes. Do you still get a

743
00:37:57,918 --> 00:38:03,558
Speaker 1: moment before these events wherever it is where maybe nervousness

744
00:38:03,598 --> 00:38:07,198
Speaker 1: is not the right word, but you know, it's still

745
00:38:07,238 --> 00:38:10,678
Speaker 1: a certain anxiety excitement. You can use whatever word you want.

746
00:38:10,758 --> 00:38:13,598
Speaker 1: I mean, you've done so many events, and so many

747
00:38:13,638 --> 00:38:15,038
Speaker 1: big events, it.

748
00:38:14,958 --> 00:38:17,278
Speaker 2: Would be easy to think, oh, well, he's used to it.

749
00:38:17,518 --> 00:38:20,358
Speaker 1: Yeah, but is there still a little bit something and

750
00:38:20,398 --> 00:38:23,878
Speaker 1: you can describe it as you wish obviously that you

751
00:38:23,998 --> 00:38:25,958
Speaker 1: feel before you go on air.

752
00:38:26,278 --> 00:38:31,118
Speaker 5: Yeah. Nervousness came into play at the beginning, especially my

753
00:38:31,238 --> 00:38:35,118
Speaker 5: first few broadcasts on KMOX and then my first few

754
00:38:35,198 --> 00:38:39,318
Speaker 5: television broadcasts, especially at NBC. When they hired me full time.

755
00:38:39,478 --> 00:38:43,518
Speaker 5: Then after that, once you know, you hear athletes say this, Yeah,

756
00:38:43,518 --> 00:38:45,358
Speaker 5: I was nervous in the World Series, but once the

757
00:38:45,358 --> 00:38:47,078
Speaker 5: first ball was hit to me, then I was just

758
00:38:47,078 --> 00:38:50,358
Speaker 5: playing baseball. Once the first hit in a football game,

759
00:38:50,518 --> 00:38:52,638
Speaker 5: that we're just playing the game that we that we

760
00:38:52,718 --> 00:38:55,558
Speaker 5: grew up with and know how to play. So after

761
00:38:55,598 --> 00:39:00,078
Speaker 5: a while, it wasn't a matter of nervousness. But you

762
00:39:00,118 --> 00:39:03,278
Speaker 5: do get more keyed up when they're counting down for

763
00:39:03,358 --> 00:39:06,238
Speaker 5: the opening ceremony of an Olympics or when it's a

764
00:39:06,278 --> 00:39:10,758
Speaker 5: World Series or an NBA final. You're moral alert. You

765
00:39:10,838 --> 00:39:13,598
Speaker 5: feel a certain excitement and at least in my case,

766
00:39:13,758 --> 00:39:19,358
Speaker 5: always appreciation. Wow, I'm here. You know. The first World

767
00:39:19,358 --> 00:39:21,318
Speaker 5: Series I hosted a lot of them when Vin and

768
00:39:21,398 --> 00:39:25,598
Speaker 5: Joe were doing the games at NBC, But when the

769
00:39:25,678 --> 00:39:27,918
Speaker 5: nineties rolled around. The first World Series I did play

770
00:39:27,958 --> 00:39:31,878
Speaker 5: by playoff was in ninety five and I'm standing there

771
00:39:31,958 --> 00:39:36,918
Speaker 5: with Joe Morgan and Bob Buker and it was Game

772
00:39:37,038 --> 00:39:43,398
Speaker 5: three in Cleveland, the Braves and the then Indians and

773
00:39:43,478 --> 00:39:46,638
Speaker 5: my son Keith, who you work with at the Major

774
00:39:46,758 --> 00:39:50,518
Speaker 5: League Baseball now Major League Baseball Network now in his thirties.

775
00:39:50,918 --> 00:39:54,358
Speaker 5: He was nine years old. My dad never saw or

776
00:39:54,398 --> 00:39:58,198
Speaker 5: heard one thing I ever did. Nine year old Keith

777
00:39:58,238 --> 00:40:01,758
Speaker 5: Costas on a Friday night, his mom put him on

778
00:40:01,798 --> 00:40:05,638
Speaker 5: a plane from Saint Louis to Cleveland right after school.

779
00:40:05,878 --> 00:40:07,958
Speaker 5: It was easier to have somebody meet you at the gate.

780
00:40:07,998 --> 00:40:10,278
Speaker 5: Then it was pre nine to eleven, so we had

781
00:40:10,278 --> 00:40:13,078
Speaker 5: someone from NBC meet him at the gate. He'd already

782
00:40:13,078 --> 00:40:15,198
Speaker 5: traveled a lot as a kid, so it wasn't that

783
00:40:15,318 --> 00:40:17,918
Speaker 5: daunting to be on a plane. And they got him

784
00:40:17,918 --> 00:40:20,198
Speaker 5: to the booth just as we were about to do

785
00:40:20,238 --> 00:40:23,918
Speaker 5: the opening stand up, just before the national anthem, and

786
00:40:24,438 --> 00:40:26,998
Speaker 5: he already knew a lot about baseball. He's wide eyed

787
00:40:27,198 --> 00:40:27,798
Speaker 5: he's there.

788
00:40:27,598 --> 00:40:28,078
Speaker 4: In the booth.

789
00:40:29,038 --> 00:40:32,798
Speaker 5: You can't help but feel tremendous appreciation. I'm doing the

790
00:40:32,798 --> 00:40:35,878
Speaker 5: World Series. My dad never got to see me do anything.

791
00:40:35,878 --> 00:40:38,278
Speaker 5: Here's my nine year old kid. He's experienced so much

792
00:40:38,278 --> 00:40:42,238
Speaker 5: of it with me. So you do feel that appreciation

793
00:40:43,838 --> 00:40:46,718
Speaker 5: and a little bit more keyed up for a World

794
00:40:46,758 --> 00:40:49,718
Speaker 5: Series or an NBA Final or a Super Bowl than

795
00:40:49,758 --> 00:40:51,118
Speaker 5: you would for a regular season game.

796
00:40:51,478 --> 00:40:52,638
Speaker 4: Could I just ask one question?

797
00:40:52,678 --> 00:40:55,278
Speaker 3: With all that You've done so many different things, and

798
00:40:55,318 --> 00:40:57,478
Speaker 3: I think I might know the answer to this, but

799
00:40:57,518 --> 00:41:02,798
Speaker 3: you got to have a favorite sport or event to broadcast.

800
00:41:01,998 --> 00:41:06,118
Speaker 3: Do you have one favorite sport to do well?

801
00:41:06,118 --> 00:41:10,198
Speaker 5: Baseball's always been my favorite sport and basketball was second.

802
00:41:10,958 --> 00:41:14,718
Speaker 5: Maybe the most iconic, and that word is thrown around

803
00:41:14,918 --> 00:41:17,838
Speaker 5: a lot, but maybe the most iconic event that I

804
00:41:17,918 --> 00:41:21,758
Speaker 5: specifically called rather than host it was Michael Jordan's last

805
00:41:21,758 --> 00:41:24,838
Speaker 5: game with the Bulls in ninety eight, when he made

806
00:41:24,838 --> 00:41:27,318
Speaker 5: the shot that turned the one point deficit into the

807
00:41:27,318 --> 00:41:31,438
Speaker 5: one point victory sealed his sixth NBA championship. And it

808
00:41:31,478 --> 00:41:33,878
Speaker 5: wasn't just that it was a winning play. It was

809
00:41:33,918 --> 00:41:37,038
Speaker 5: so classic. You know, if you were making a movie,

810
00:41:37,078 --> 00:41:39,238
Speaker 5: that's the way the shot would look. And he even

811
00:41:39,278 --> 00:41:41,958
Speaker 5: held the pose at the end of the release of

812
00:41:41,998 --> 00:41:44,558
Speaker 5: the shot, almost like he was posing for a statue.

813
00:41:45,358 --> 00:41:47,598
Speaker 5: And when the Last Dance came around more than twenty

814
00:41:47,678 --> 00:41:51,358
Speaker 5: years after, I didn't remember specifically some of the stuff

815
00:41:51,438 --> 00:41:53,558
Speaker 5: during that season that led up to it, but most

816
00:41:53,598 --> 00:41:56,398
Speaker 5: of it was on NBC. And the fact that the

817
00:41:56,438 --> 00:41:59,758
Speaker 5: way we covered it held up well more than two

818
00:41:59,758 --> 00:42:04,358
Speaker 5: decades later is a small source of pride in the

819
00:42:04,398 --> 00:42:08,518
Speaker 5: Dodger dugout. Vin Scully was calling the game magnificently. But

820
00:42:08,558 --> 00:42:11,478
Speaker 5: I was in the Dodger dugout when Kirk Gibson hit

821
00:42:11,518 --> 00:42:14,038
Speaker 5: the home run off Dennis Acresley. I was waiting to

822
00:42:14,118 --> 00:42:16,238
Speaker 5: jump out on the field and do a postgame interview.

823
00:42:16,798 --> 00:42:21,918
Speaker 5: And to this day, it's the most theatrical thing imaginable.

824
00:42:22,478 --> 00:42:26,998
Speaker 5: You know, I likened it to Robert Redford's at bat

825
00:42:27,038 --> 00:42:30,038
Speaker 5: as Roy Hobbs in the Natural. And in fact, when

826
00:42:30,078 --> 00:42:32,718
Speaker 5: I mentioned that to one of our producers after the game,

827
00:42:32,958 --> 00:42:34,758
Speaker 5: I said, you know that he was like Roy Hobbs.

828
00:42:35,118 --> 00:42:37,878
Speaker 5: He actually went back. He David Neil, the great producer,

829
00:42:38,358 --> 00:42:44,398
Speaker 5: went to NBC and Burbank, and overnight he intercut Redford's

830
00:42:44,478 --> 00:42:47,118
Speaker 5: last at bat as Roy Hobbs from the Natural with

831
00:42:47,198 --> 00:42:51,398
Speaker 5: Barry Levinson's direction, and why am I forgetting the name

832
00:42:51,438 --> 00:42:54,558
Speaker 5: of oh, Randy Newman. Randy Newman did the score and

833
00:42:54,598 --> 00:42:58,638
Speaker 5: he intercut Gibson's at bat with Redford's at bat, and

834
00:42:58,678 --> 00:43:02,518
Speaker 5: it was almost eerie the way that two of them matched.

835
00:43:03,958 --> 00:43:06,838
Speaker 5: If you were making a movie, you wouldn't change a

836
00:43:06,838 --> 00:43:09,278
Speaker 5: single frame. And the difference was that as great a

837
00:43:09,318 --> 00:43:12,798
Speaker 5: director as Barry Levinson is, he had multiple takes if

838
00:43:12,798 --> 00:43:16,638
Speaker 5: he needed them. Harry Coyle the legendary director for NBC,

839
00:43:17,318 --> 00:43:20,078
Speaker 5: and Mike Weisman and John Philippelli, the producers in the truck.

840
00:43:20,398 --> 00:43:23,718
Speaker 5: They had one shot at it, and they completely nailed

841
00:43:23,958 --> 00:43:28,038
Speaker 5: every aspect of it. And Kirk Gibson himself says he's

842
00:43:28,038 --> 00:43:29,998
Speaker 5: at the center of it. Part of the way he

843
00:43:30,198 --> 00:43:33,758
Speaker 5: remembers it is the way it was televised. And you

844
00:43:33,798 --> 00:43:36,118
Speaker 5: have on the same play two of the greatest calls

845
00:43:36,118 --> 00:43:40,598
Speaker 5: in baseball history, Vin Scully on television and Jack Buck

846
00:43:40,718 --> 00:43:43,598
Speaker 5: I don't believe what I just saw on the radio.

847
00:43:43,878 --> 00:43:46,878
Speaker 5: So I was kind of a tangential part of that.

848
00:43:47,558 --> 00:43:50,118
Speaker 5: But even in the moment, you could tell it wasn't

849
00:43:50,198 --> 00:43:53,518
Speaker 5: just a game winning home run. There was something about

850
00:43:53,558 --> 00:43:57,238
Speaker 5: it that was so dramatic and so theatrical that it

851
00:43:57,238 --> 00:43:59,598
Speaker 5: would always resonate, and it still does more than thirty

852
00:43:59,638 --> 00:44:00,118
Speaker 5: years later.

853
00:44:00,518 --> 00:44:04,718
Speaker 1: Bob, you're underestimating your role in that World Series, and

854
00:44:04,798 --> 00:44:07,758
Speaker 1: because first of all, you were right there listening to

855
00:44:07,918 --> 00:44:10,638
Speaker 1: Kirk Gibson warm up when none of us thought he

856
00:44:10,798 --> 00:44:14,078
Speaker 1: was even available to play. Yeah, and then Tommy Lasorda,

857
00:44:14,198 --> 00:44:17,358
Speaker 1: the late Tommy Losorta, credits you with inspiring his team.

858
00:44:17,478 --> 00:44:23,078
Speaker 5: Correct, Well, Tommy can be delightfully full of it. You know,

859
00:44:23,238 --> 00:44:25,358
Speaker 5: he was delightfully full of it when he wanted to be.

860
00:44:25,638 --> 00:44:27,998
Speaker 5: So the first part is this, they send me down.

861
00:44:28,758 --> 00:44:31,278
Speaker 5: I'm going to interview somebody after the game, and I've

862
00:44:31,278 --> 00:44:33,358
Speaker 5: got the Dodgers and Marv Albert has the age, so

863
00:44:33,358 --> 00:44:35,638
Speaker 5: I think I'm going to be doing a losing interview

864
00:44:35,678 --> 00:44:38,678
Speaker 5: because Eckersley's almost untouchable even though it's a one run game.

865
00:44:39,118 --> 00:44:42,558
Speaker 5: And I'm in the tunnel between the clubhouse and the dugout,

866
00:44:42,998 --> 00:44:46,318
Speaker 5: and all of a sudden, I hear thwack, uh thwack,

867
00:44:47,478 --> 00:44:49,838
Speaker 5: and I walk down to investigate, and there's the batting

868
00:44:49,878 --> 00:44:53,518
Speaker 5: cage and here's Gibson and bat boy's putting balls on

869
00:44:53,558 --> 00:44:55,878
Speaker 5: a tee for him, and he's taking swings and with

870
00:44:55,958 --> 00:44:59,878
Speaker 5: every swing he's grunting in pain and discomfort. So I

871
00:44:59,958 --> 00:45:02,918
Speaker 5: get on the telex and I tell Mike Weisman, Gibson

872
00:45:02,958 --> 00:45:05,758
Speaker 5: put his uniform on. He's taking swings. Maybe he can

873
00:45:05,758 --> 00:45:08,998
Speaker 5: pinch hit. And he alerted Vin and Joe in the booth,

874
00:45:09,358 --> 00:45:12,678
Speaker 5: and Vin had already asked Harry Coyle to now and

875
00:45:12,718 --> 00:45:16,198
Speaker 5: then pan the dugout looking for Gibson. No Gibson. So

876
00:45:16,238 --> 00:45:20,398
Speaker 5: that's the idea of drama building drama, not fake hype,

877
00:45:20,758 --> 00:45:25,398
Speaker 5: which is everywhere. Fake hype is everywhere in sports TV today.

878
00:45:25,678 --> 00:45:30,198
Speaker 5: That was legitimate storytelling and legitimate drama. And it wasn't

879
00:45:30,358 --> 00:45:33,438
Speaker 5: just what happened when Gibson connected, It was everything that

880
00:45:33,558 --> 00:45:36,878
Speaker 5: led up to it and surrounded it. So masterfully done

881
00:45:37,038 --> 00:45:39,878
Speaker 5: in the truck by the producers and directors and in

882
00:45:39,958 --> 00:45:44,518
Speaker 5: the booth by Vin. So yeah, so I played that

883
00:45:44,678 --> 00:45:48,238
Speaker 5: part in it. And then we get to Game four

884
00:45:48,878 --> 00:45:50,758
Speaker 5: and that was Gibson's only at bat in the whole

885
00:45:50,758 --> 00:45:53,958
Speaker 5: World Series. And then Mike Marshall, their secondary power source,

886
00:45:53,998 --> 00:45:57,318
Speaker 5: went out. So the Dodgers send out a lineup for

887
00:45:57,438 --> 00:45:59,798
Speaker 5: Game four that looks like a B game in World

888
00:45:59,838 --> 00:46:03,118
Speaker 5: Series in a spring training Rather, guys who were good

889
00:46:03,158 --> 00:46:06,678
Speaker 5: players passed the prime, like Rick Dempsey and Alfredo Griffin,

890
00:46:06,958 --> 00:46:10,798
Speaker 5: and guys who had been reserves their entire careers Dave Anderson,

891
00:46:11,398 --> 00:46:15,918
Speaker 5: Franklin Stubbs, John Shelby, Mickey Hatcher, who hit one home

892
00:46:15,998 --> 00:46:18,958
Speaker 5: run during that season and two in the World Series.

893
00:46:18,998 --> 00:46:23,478
Speaker 5: They called themselves the Bomb Squad. So I survey this lineup,

894
00:46:23,518 --> 00:46:26,838
Speaker 5: and I'm hosting the pregame show. The series stands two

895
00:46:26,838 --> 00:46:29,918
Speaker 5: to one and Hirsheiser is going to pitch Game five,

896
00:46:30,438 --> 00:46:32,638
Speaker 5: and we know if it goes seven, he's gonna throw

897
00:46:32,638 --> 00:46:35,158
Speaker 5: at least some innings on two days rest in Game seven,

898
00:46:35,398 --> 00:46:37,398
Speaker 5: so I know the Dodgers have a chance here. And

899
00:46:37,398 --> 00:46:40,198
Speaker 5: they're up two games to one because Hirsheiser had followed

900
00:46:40,278 --> 00:46:43,838
Speaker 5: up Gibson's miracle with a great performance in Game two.

901
00:46:43,878 --> 00:46:46,318
Speaker 5: So they went to Oakland up two games to none.

902
00:46:46,518 --> 00:46:49,598
Speaker 5: So I say, pitching a side, and this is the

903
00:46:49,718 --> 00:46:53,838
Speaker 5: key thing. Pitching aside, and Dodger pitching is excellent. This

904
00:46:53,998 --> 00:46:57,038
Speaker 5: may be the weakest lineup ever to take the field

905
00:46:57,078 --> 00:47:00,038
Speaker 5: for a World Series game. That was a considered statement.

906
00:47:00,598 --> 00:47:04,238
Speaker 5: So the pregame is on in the Dodgers clubhouse in Oakland.

907
00:47:04,678 --> 00:47:09,838
Speaker 5: Lesorta sees it and says, see that even Costas doesn't

908
00:47:09,878 --> 00:47:12,798
Speaker 5: give us a chance, and apparently by his own testimony,

909
00:47:12,998 --> 00:47:17,518
Speaker 5: he then leads a chant of kill Costas, Kill Costas.

910
00:47:18,118 --> 00:47:21,438
Speaker 5: So now the pregame ends and they're about to do

911
00:47:21,478 --> 00:47:23,878
Speaker 5: the anthem, and I don't want to be disrespectful, so

912
00:47:23,958 --> 00:47:25,998
Speaker 5: I fall at the end of the line. The Dodgers

913
00:47:25,998 --> 00:47:27,598
Speaker 5: are there, and Herschei's is at the end of the

914
00:47:27,598 --> 00:47:30,358
Speaker 5: line with his cap over his heart, and he looks

915
00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:31,958
Speaker 5: down at me and kind of into the corner of

916
00:47:31,958 --> 00:47:34,918
Speaker 5: his mouth, he goes, boy, he really got the boys

917
00:47:34,998 --> 00:47:36,998
Speaker 5: riled up, and I don't even know what he's talking about.

918
00:47:37,358 --> 00:47:39,558
Speaker 5: And then he explains to me when the anthem is over.

919
00:47:40,638 --> 00:47:45,158
Speaker 5: And then Lesorta puts on a virtuoso performance. It's like

920
00:47:45,478 --> 00:47:47,518
Speaker 5: he pulled every rabbit out of the hat. He gave

921
00:47:47,598 --> 00:47:49,518
Speaker 5: Mike Davis the hit sign on three and zero, and

922
00:47:49,598 --> 00:47:52,318
Speaker 5: Davis homerd I think he hit three homers the whole year.

923
00:47:52,598 --> 00:47:56,038
Speaker 5: He pulled a squeeze hit everything he did. He won

924
00:47:56,158 --> 00:47:59,038
Speaker 5: Game four, Lasorda won Game four, and then hirsheis are

925
00:47:59,038 --> 00:48:03,038
Speaker 5: predictably one Game five. But before Game five, I had

926
00:48:03,038 --> 00:48:06,038
Speaker 5: to go to Tony Russ's office because he had gotten

927
00:48:06,038 --> 00:48:08,238
Speaker 5: a third and fourth hand and Tony and I were

928
00:48:08,278 --> 00:48:12,198
Speaker 5: always friendly. He thought that Lesoda and I had orchestrated it,

929
00:48:12,398 --> 00:48:14,558
Speaker 5: that it was a setup, and I had to go

930
00:48:14,638 --> 00:48:17,598
Speaker 5: a sure, Tony, no, no, no, you know, Tommy, it's

931
00:48:17,638 --> 00:48:19,958
Speaker 5: just Tommy. And of course Tony wasn't in the best

932
00:48:19,958 --> 00:48:23,238
Speaker 5: possible mood because he's down three to one at that point.

933
00:48:23,438 --> 00:48:26,638
Speaker 5: So I was inadvertently in the middle of it and

934
00:48:26,758 --> 00:48:29,118
Speaker 5: some years later. You know, I actually was in Saint

935
00:48:29,158 --> 00:48:33,318
Speaker 5: Louis at a Saint Louis Brown's fan club luncheon. Wow,

936
00:48:33,758 --> 00:48:36,718
Speaker 5: there are three surviving Saint Louis Brown's, but there are

937
00:48:36,758 --> 00:48:39,318
Speaker 5: dozens and dozens of people who remember them. I guess

938
00:48:39,358 --> 00:48:43,078
Speaker 5: they were fans when they were kids. So they have

939
00:48:43,158 --> 00:48:47,198
Speaker 5: this annual luncheon. And Rick Dempsey the connection to the

940
00:48:47,238 --> 00:48:49,478
Speaker 5: Browns being that he played for the Baltimore Orioles and

941
00:48:49,558 --> 00:48:52,518
Speaker 5: the Browns left Saint Louis and became the Orioles. Rick

942
00:48:52,598 --> 00:48:55,838
Speaker 5: Dempsey was the keynote speaker. So I'm sitting there having

943
00:48:55,918 --> 00:48:58,718
Speaker 5: lunch with Rick, and he still thought that I said

944
00:48:59,678 --> 00:49:02,238
Speaker 5: that the Dodgers of eighty eight were the worst team

945
00:49:02,478 --> 00:49:05,918
Speaker 5: in World Series history. He wasn't angry, he was smiling.

946
00:49:05,958 --> 00:49:09,198
Speaker 5: I said, no, Rick, that's not what I said. But Tom,

947
00:49:09,198 --> 00:49:12,838
Speaker 5: you know, in this business, things get distorted pretty easily.

948
00:49:13,038 --> 00:49:15,598
Speaker 4: Never let the truth get in away of a good story, ever, correct.

949
00:49:16,038 --> 00:49:16,478
Speaker 4: That's right.

950
00:49:16,558 --> 00:49:17,558
Speaker 2: I love that story.

951
00:49:17,558 --> 00:49:19,318
Speaker 1: And then, by the way, Tony LaRussa, I don't know

952
00:49:19,358 --> 00:49:22,558
Speaker 1: whether it was before or after, allowed you to manage

953
00:49:23,038 --> 00:49:24,118
Speaker 1: a spring training game.

954
00:49:24,238 --> 00:49:27,758
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that was on my fortieth birthday, and as

955
00:49:27,798 --> 00:49:32,318
Speaker 5: a surprise birthday present. I managed the A's against the

956
00:49:32,318 --> 00:49:35,998
Speaker 5: Mariners in nineteen ninety two and spring training of ninety two,

957
00:49:36,678 --> 00:49:38,838
Speaker 5: and also as part of it, I had to hit fungos,

958
00:49:39,278 --> 00:49:43,118
Speaker 5: took some batting practice. I told Canseco, I was gonna

959
00:49:43,118 --> 00:49:45,678
Speaker 5: make him hit and run stuffing was never asked to do.

960
00:49:45,958 --> 00:49:48,878
Speaker 5: And they're all laughing and stuff. But then when it

961
00:49:48,958 --> 00:49:52,238
Speaker 5: got to the point where Ron Darling was getting knocked around,

962
00:49:52,918 --> 00:49:56,078
Speaker 5: and I said to Larusa, I think I should go

963
00:49:56,078 --> 00:49:58,798
Speaker 5: get him, and he said, yeah, you should. And then

964
00:49:58,798 --> 00:50:00,438
Speaker 5: I thought, wait a minute, not everybody is in on

965
00:50:00,478 --> 00:50:03,038
Speaker 5: the joke. And Ron Darling, who is a great guy

966
00:50:03,118 --> 00:50:06,118
Speaker 5: in a long time friends and colleague, I wasn't one

967
00:50:06,158 --> 00:50:08,678
Speaker 5: hundred percent sure that he'd be that amused to have

968
00:50:08,838 --> 00:50:12,198
Speaker 5: me go out there wearing Mike Diego's uniform because he

969
00:50:12,278 --> 00:50:14,398
Speaker 5: was the smallest guy on the age, the closest to

970
00:50:14,478 --> 00:50:17,798
Speaker 5: a fit that have me go out there. He's trying

971
00:50:17,798 --> 00:50:19,838
Speaker 5: to make the team, he's getting knocked around, and me

972
00:50:19,878 --> 00:50:22,678
Speaker 5: as a prank, here give me the ball. So I said, Tony,

973
00:50:22,718 --> 00:50:23,438
Speaker 5: I'm out, you.

974
00:50:23,358 --> 00:50:23,918
Speaker 4: Go get him.

975
00:50:24,238 --> 00:50:26,438
Speaker 2: Did you win the game? Did you retire and defeated?

976
00:50:26,798 --> 00:50:31,798
Speaker 5: No? We lost. We lost. I ken Seko missed the

977
00:50:31,838 --> 00:50:37,438
Speaker 5: steel sign at one point and I reamed him out

978
00:50:37,438 --> 00:50:41,198
Speaker 5: for that. I forget the rest. It's all kind of

979
00:50:41,238 --> 00:50:41,598
Speaker 5: a blur.

980
00:50:41,838 --> 00:50:44,558
Speaker 3: Whenever you miss his sign, man managers get upset. There

981
00:50:44,598 --> 00:50:46,918
Speaker 3: you go nothing perfect example.

982
00:50:47,478 --> 00:50:50,318
Speaker 1: Well, Bob, this has been an absolute pleasure. We could

983
00:50:50,318 --> 00:50:51,678
Speaker 1: go on and on. We're gonna have to bring you

984
00:50:51,718 --> 00:50:54,478
Speaker 1: back another episode. Just so many places we want to go,

985
00:50:54,558 --> 00:50:58,998
Speaker 1: and the stories are awesome. But listen, it's I want

986
00:50:59,038 --> 00:51:00,998
Speaker 1: to say personally, it's always a treat to be sitting

987
00:51:01,038 --> 00:51:01,878
Speaker 1: next to you in the booth.

988
00:51:01,878 --> 00:51:03,398
Speaker 2: It's always just a.

989
00:51:03,358 --> 00:51:06,478
Speaker 1: First class experience, and it's something I never take for

990
00:51:06,518 --> 00:51:08,878
Speaker 1: granted as many times as I'm lucky enough to do that.

991
00:51:09,038 --> 00:51:10,318
Speaker 2: So thank you for everything.

992
00:51:10,438 --> 00:51:14,198
Speaker 5: Well, Tom, I've said this before. You are as a

993
00:51:14,278 --> 00:51:16,878
Speaker 5: tuned to the modern game as anybody in that respect

994
00:51:16,878 --> 00:51:19,638
Speaker 5: as a reporter, but you're one of the few that's

995
00:51:19,678 --> 00:51:23,958
Speaker 5: carrying the flame at Sports Illustrated and elsewhere for the

996
00:51:24,078 --> 00:51:27,398
Speaker 5: kind of stuff that we enjoyed and appreciated as readers

997
00:51:27,478 --> 00:51:31,158
Speaker 5: and as viewers. You are connected to Frank to Ford.

998
00:51:31,718 --> 00:51:35,998
Speaker 5: You're connected to the very best whoever did it. At

999
00:51:35,998 --> 00:51:38,678
Speaker 5: Sports Illustrated and at least a few of you guys

1000
00:51:38,678 --> 00:51:40,998
Speaker 5: are still out there doing it that way the way

1001
00:51:40,998 --> 00:51:41,838
Speaker 5: that I appreciate it.

1002
00:51:41,878 --> 00:51:45,278
Speaker 2: Appreciate that, Joe. Well done boys, Joe and Bob.

1003
00:51:45,318 --> 00:51:48,238
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. And as I said, we'd love

1004
00:51:48,278 --> 00:51:49,878
Speaker 1: to have you back another time. This has been a

1005
00:51:49,918 --> 00:51:50,438
Speaker 1: lot of fun.

1006
00:51:50,478 --> 00:51:53,118
Speaker 5: Thanks again, Thanks guys, see you Joe, Thanks Bob.

1007
00:51:53,238 --> 00:51:53,878
Speaker 4: Appreciate it.

1008
00:51:53,958 --> 00:51:55,198
Speaker 2: Well, that was fun, Joe.

1009
00:51:55,318 --> 00:51:58,438
Speaker 1: As I said, I mean with Bob Costas man, he's

1010
00:51:58,478 --> 00:52:02,158
Speaker 1: a great storyteller. He's done it all, he's seen it all,

1011
00:52:03,278 --> 00:52:06,438
Speaker 1: and you still here what I love the enthusiasm for

1012
00:52:06,518 --> 00:52:07,198
Speaker 1: what he does.

1013
00:52:07,278 --> 00:52:10,798
Speaker 3: It's just so awesome, another version of Google. He's got

1014
00:52:10,838 --> 00:52:14,718
Speaker 3: everything down, man. All the facts are had his fingertips.

1015
00:52:15,158 --> 00:52:19,398
Speaker 3: His ability to recreate moments and situations and time are

1016
00:52:19,838 --> 00:52:22,638
Speaker 3: impeccable and as good as it gets. I've always we've

1017
00:52:22,678 --> 00:52:24,958
Speaker 3: always enjoyed listening to his broadcasts.

1018
00:52:25,518 --> 00:52:27,238
Speaker 4: He really stands out in the Olympics. For me, I

1019
00:52:27,278 --> 00:52:27,878
Speaker 4: was just curious.

1020
00:52:27,918 --> 00:52:31,158
Speaker 3: I thought baseball would be his favorite sport to broadcast,

1021
00:52:31,198 --> 00:52:33,638
Speaker 3: but I can see the basketball side of it too.

1022
00:52:33,918 --> 00:52:34,878
Speaker 4: It's a bright man.

1023
00:52:35,078 --> 00:52:38,638
Speaker 3: And again, just like I'm so happy he pointed out

1024
00:52:38,678 --> 00:52:41,438
Speaker 3: the component of reading, just like you do. I've been

1025
00:52:41,478 --> 00:52:43,798
Speaker 3: a voracious reader in my whole life, where recently I

1026
00:52:43,798 --> 00:52:45,878
Speaker 3: have been slowed down, just based on the speed of

1027
00:52:45,878 --> 00:52:48,718
Speaker 3: information and the fact that we get too quick all

1028
00:52:48,758 --> 00:52:51,878
Speaker 3: the time. You need a slower pace to sit down

1029
00:52:51,878 --> 00:52:55,598
Speaker 3: and really devour a novel, which I heck in the seventies, eighties,

1030
00:52:55,598 --> 00:52:58,958
Speaker 3: and nineties that did one every two weeks practically. So

1031
00:52:59,758 --> 00:53:02,278
Speaker 3: I really love the idea of promoting reading to kids

1032
00:53:02,278 --> 00:53:05,358
Speaker 3: these days. I don't know if it's gonna literally fall

1033
00:53:05,398 --> 00:53:08,358
Speaker 3: on deaf fears, but to get kids to read more again,

1034
00:53:08,398 --> 00:53:11,638
Speaker 3: not just people that want to become involved in the

1035
00:53:11,638 --> 00:53:13,998
Speaker 3: industry doing what you and Bob do, but just in

1036
00:53:14,038 --> 00:53:16,678
Speaker 3: general terms, reading is so important.

1037
00:53:16,718 --> 00:53:18,758
Speaker 4: I love to see a resurgence in that.

1038
00:53:18,758 --> 00:53:22,118
Speaker 1: That's a great point, and especially your point about sometimes

1039
00:53:22,438 --> 00:53:24,678
Speaker 1: even though those of us who'd love to read, you

1040
00:53:24,718 --> 00:53:26,798
Speaker 1: get caught up in the speed of things of life.

1041
00:53:26,838 --> 00:53:29,438
Speaker 1: Now everything has sped up, there's no question about it,

1042
00:53:29,798 --> 00:53:32,118
Speaker 1: and you almost need to force yourself to call a

1043
00:53:32,118 --> 00:53:35,278
Speaker 1: time out. For me, it's usually what a good airplane

1044
00:53:35,278 --> 00:53:39,038
Speaker 1: flight is for. It's a great place to read. You're

1045
00:53:39,078 --> 00:53:41,918
Speaker 1: forced to slow down at that point. So that's a

1046
00:53:41,958 --> 00:53:45,078
Speaker 1: great reminder that you almost have to find the time

1047
00:53:45,198 --> 00:53:48,478
Speaker 1: now to slow yourself down, because it's easy to get

1048
00:53:48,478 --> 00:53:50,558
Speaker 1: caught up in the current, and the current moves quickly.

1049
00:53:50,958 --> 00:53:53,798
Speaker 3: I find myself I just don't read any more. I

1050
00:53:53,838 --> 00:53:56,798
Speaker 3: can read a newspaper anything in general, I skim, I'll

1051
00:53:56,798 --> 00:53:59,718
Speaker 3: read a paragraph. If I'm really interested, I slow down

1052
00:53:59,758 --> 00:54:01,918
Speaker 3: and I'll read the whole thing. That if I'm just

1053
00:54:02,078 --> 00:54:05,558
Speaker 3: trying to accumulate more and for me about anything, I

1054
00:54:05,678 --> 00:54:06,478
Speaker 3: must speed reader.

1055
00:54:06,478 --> 00:54:08,478
Speaker 4: And I don't like it. I don't like it.

1056
00:54:08,878 --> 00:54:11,478
Speaker 3: I'd love to be able to, you know, put the

1057
00:54:11,478 --> 00:54:13,558
Speaker 3: brakes on a little bit, pump them a little bit,

1058
00:54:13,678 --> 00:54:17,638
Speaker 3: slow it down, because it's so it's a difference maker

1059
00:54:17,718 --> 00:54:21,158
Speaker 3: your ability to weave like you do and and with

1060
00:54:21,238 --> 00:54:23,598
Speaker 3: Bob same way. A lot of it has to do

1061
00:54:23,678 --> 00:54:25,758
Speaker 3: with that, the fact that you guys have read so much,

1062
00:54:25,838 --> 00:54:28,678
Speaker 3: and you have varied interest and you have this wide

1063
00:54:29,078 --> 00:54:32,478
Speaker 3: base a liberal arts bace. And again, if there's one

1064
00:54:32,518 --> 00:54:34,398
Speaker 3: thing I try to get across the kids whenever I

1065
00:54:34,478 --> 00:54:37,798
Speaker 3: do have opportunities to speak with them, is to me,

1066
00:54:38,158 --> 00:54:40,118
Speaker 3: the most one of the most important things to do

1067
00:54:40,158 --> 00:54:42,718
Speaker 3: in school would be to read. And also I like

1068
00:54:42,758 --> 00:54:46,038
Speaker 3: the idea of speech and debate. I've always thought that

1069
00:54:46,038 --> 00:54:48,678
Speaker 3: that would be should be required, I should be required

1070
00:54:48,758 --> 00:54:52,558
Speaker 3: courses within schools, is a speech class or part of

1071
00:54:52,598 --> 00:54:56,918
Speaker 3: a class, and also debate those two things I think

1072
00:54:56,998 --> 00:54:58,558
Speaker 3: would be so beneficial.

1073
00:54:58,598 --> 00:55:00,838
Speaker 4: And the last one would be yoga and meditation.

1074
00:55:00,958 --> 00:55:03,798
Speaker 3: I you know that might be a tough sell, but

1075
00:55:04,918 --> 00:55:08,238
Speaker 3: with the way we're medicating children today, give them tools

1076
00:55:08,558 --> 00:55:12,478
Speaker 3: and abilities to possibly avoid that. And these are the

1077
00:55:12,518 --> 00:55:16,358
Speaker 3: things to me that avoid the necessity to have to

1078
00:55:16,398 --> 00:55:19,918
Speaker 3: be eventually medicated in a situation, to be able to

1079
00:55:19,958 --> 00:55:23,638
Speaker 3: slow things down. Breathe really understand what's going on in

1080
00:55:23,638 --> 00:55:27,918
Speaker 3: front of you. So if we get educationally provide the tools,

1081
00:55:28,118 --> 00:55:29,198
Speaker 3: we're all going to be better off.

1082
00:55:29,318 --> 00:55:30,118
Speaker 2: My great advice.

1083
00:55:30,278 --> 00:55:32,878
Speaker 1: We're always in such a hurry, and it seems like

1084
00:55:33,398 --> 00:55:37,518
Speaker 1: our idols get faster and faster because of the information

1085
00:55:37,718 --> 00:55:41,118
Speaker 1: and technology and entertainment come at us faster and faster.

1086
00:55:41,238 --> 00:55:42,918
Speaker 2: It's important to slow ourselves down.

1087
00:55:43,318 --> 00:55:47,158
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, you always have great words of wisdom coming

1088
00:55:47,198 --> 00:55:50,438
Speaker 1: out of these podcasts, and typically from some great writers

1089
00:55:51,278 --> 00:55:51,998
Speaker 1: or statesman.

1090
00:55:52,758 --> 00:55:54,038
Speaker 2: Who do you got on tap today?

1091
00:55:54,438 --> 00:55:54,638
Speaker 4: Well?

1092
00:55:54,918 --> 00:55:57,998
Speaker 3: I chose this fella and Abasam before. But the fact

1093
00:55:57,998 --> 00:56:00,478
Speaker 3: that Bob was on any is such a great historian

1094
00:56:00,478 --> 00:56:03,438
Speaker 3: for the game as you are, and the idea of

1095
00:56:03,518 --> 00:56:05,798
Speaker 3: all the things that are occurring in the game today

1096
00:56:06,598 --> 00:56:07,198
Speaker 3: of baseball.

1097
00:56:07,238 --> 00:56:08,678
Speaker 4: I thought this might be appropriate.

1098
00:56:09,478 --> 00:56:12,718
Speaker 3: Baseball people, and that includes myself, are slow to change

1099
00:56:12,758 --> 00:56:16,758
Speaker 3: and accept new ideas. I remember that it took years

1100
00:56:16,758 --> 00:56:20,278
Speaker 3: to persuade them to put numbers on uniforms. That's from

1101
00:56:20,318 --> 00:56:23,278
Speaker 3: mister branch Rickey. So that was like even back then.

1102
00:56:24,478 --> 00:56:28,038
Speaker 3: The the change the in the in the game of baseball.

1103
00:56:28,318 --> 00:56:30,198
Speaker 3: And I was started trying to think of like different

1104
00:56:30,878 --> 00:56:33,638
Speaker 3: changes that are occurring, and he was talking about numbers.

1105
00:56:33,678 --> 00:56:36,958
Speaker 3: I think about logos on the uniform, colored bats, spikes,

1106
00:56:37,038 --> 00:56:40,638
Speaker 3: mascots in the dugout. That's one form of change. And

1107
00:56:40,638 --> 00:56:44,118
Speaker 3: the other form of changes run around second three better minimum.

1108
00:56:43,678 --> 00:56:45,278
Speaker 4: Pitch clock outlawing the shift.

1109
00:56:45,318 --> 00:56:47,718
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there's different ways to change, and I

1110
00:56:47,758 --> 00:56:53,998
Speaker 3: guess I'm trying to qualify that the fact that there

1111
00:56:54,038 --> 00:56:57,118
Speaker 3: are some that to me are easy to accept, as

1112
00:56:57,238 --> 00:57:00,118
Speaker 3: I e. Logos, numbers, colored bats, spikes, mascots.

1113
00:57:00,398 --> 00:57:01,038
Speaker 4: The ones that.

1114
00:57:01,078 --> 00:57:05,038
Speaker 3: Require more time for me to really chep on board

1115
00:57:05,038 --> 00:57:07,118
Speaker 3: with is like I talked about strategy of the game.

1116
00:57:07,078 --> 00:57:09,598
Speaker 4: Run around second base in the extra innings, three.

1117
00:57:09,398 --> 00:57:12,678
Speaker 3: Batter, minimum, pitch clock outlong the ship where strategy is

1118
00:57:12,718 --> 00:57:17,478
Speaker 3: impacted and mitigates the ability to think on your feet

1119
00:57:17,518 --> 00:57:20,038
Speaker 3: during in the course of a baseball game. So these

1120
00:57:20,078 --> 00:57:23,398
Speaker 3: are the things that there's examples of change. And mister

1121
00:57:23,478 --> 00:57:26,638
Speaker 3: Ricky was talking about numbers on uniform. So I'm trying

1122
00:57:26,678 --> 00:57:28,438
Speaker 3: to wrap my mind around the whole thing as I

1123
00:57:28,438 --> 00:57:32,398
Speaker 3: guess what I'm saying to you right now. And I'm trying,

1124
00:57:32,598 --> 00:57:37,078
Speaker 3: I'm trying to really understand why these other things are

1125
00:57:37,118 --> 00:57:39,638
Speaker 3: so pertinent and important. Like I said, the one to me,

1126
00:57:39,718 --> 00:57:43,078
Speaker 3: the pitch clock absolutely is the superstar with all of this.

1127
00:57:43,198 --> 00:57:45,198
Speaker 3: The other stuff I'm not so sure about.

1128
00:57:45,758 --> 00:57:49,638
Speaker 1: I'm a little more optimistic because the change I see here, Joe,

1129
00:57:49,718 --> 00:57:51,878
Speaker 1: I think the game is heading in the right direction.

1130
00:57:51,998 --> 00:57:54,838
Speaker 1: Let's see where it takes us. But I watched the

1131
00:57:54,878 --> 00:57:59,318
Speaker 1: Baltimore Orioles play, I watched the Chicago Cubs play. I'm

1132
00:57:59,358 --> 00:58:02,918
Speaker 1: now seeing teams play a version of baseball that had

1133
00:58:02,958 --> 00:58:06,438
Speaker 1: disappeared in the line decade in the search for power

1134
00:58:06,838 --> 00:58:10,678
Speaker 1: at the cost of strikeouts, that passive aggressive, you know,

1135
00:58:10,958 --> 00:58:14,678
Speaker 1: walk strikeout, home run game. And I see athletes defending

1136
00:58:14,678 --> 00:58:17,798
Speaker 1: the field, running the bases, hitting the ball the other way.

1137
00:58:18,758 --> 00:58:21,838
Speaker 1: We're not back to the nineteen eighties quite yet, Joe,

1138
00:58:21,838 --> 00:58:24,918
Speaker 1: but I am seeing teams. It'll be interesting to see

1139
00:58:24,998 --> 00:58:29,838
Speaker 1: what plays out in the postseason. But I think the

1140
00:58:29,878 --> 00:58:34,638
Speaker 1: groundwork is being set here with a better version of baseball.

1141
00:58:34,678 --> 00:58:35,158
Speaker 4: I've listened.

1142
00:58:35,158 --> 00:58:37,478
Speaker 3: I'm into all of that, and again, but what is

1143
00:58:37,518 --> 00:58:41,558
Speaker 3: the what is the motivating factor behind that change?

1144
00:58:41,558 --> 00:58:43,478
Speaker 4: I think it really comes down to the pitch clock.

1145
00:58:43,798 --> 00:58:46,278
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's a pitch clock, yes, but that's okay.

1146
00:58:46,438 --> 00:58:48,918
Speaker 2: If that's the instigator here, sure.

1147
00:58:48,678 --> 00:58:50,958
Speaker 1: But I think if you have one of these teams

1148
00:58:51,038 --> 00:58:53,398
Speaker 1: break through, it actually win the World Series.

1149
00:58:53,718 --> 00:58:55,518
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, we'll see more of it.

1150
00:58:55,798 --> 00:58:58,758
Speaker 3: I'll listen, you know me. I'm all about that. That's

1151
00:58:59,158 --> 00:59:02,638
Speaker 3: that's exactly what we're looking for in the game. That's

1152
00:59:03,038 --> 00:59:04,958
Speaker 3: that's why I have been tuning in more this year.

1153
00:59:05,158 --> 00:59:07,758
Speaker 3: Is exactly what you're talking about. And I do tune

1154
00:59:07,758 --> 00:59:09,878
Speaker 3: into the teams that play that style of game. I do,

1155
00:59:10,718 --> 00:59:13,078
Speaker 3: and I have been watching the Cubs when I like

1156
00:59:13,118 --> 00:59:16,478
Speaker 3: what they're doing a lot. But yeah, all this stuff again,

1157
00:59:16,518 --> 00:59:18,478
Speaker 3: I'm just going back to the quote by mister Ricky

1158
00:59:18,558 --> 00:59:21,558
Speaker 3: slow baseball people slow to embrace change, and I don't

1159
00:59:21,598 --> 00:59:23,598
Speaker 3: want to be, because I was really at the forefront

1160
00:59:23,638 --> 00:59:25,638
Speaker 3: of a lot of the change like ten or fifteen

1161
00:59:25,718 --> 00:59:29,358
Speaker 3: years ago, just with defenses and analytics, etc. But again,

1162
00:59:29,518 --> 00:59:32,558
Speaker 3: I'm still concerned about the manager, I guess, and I

1163
00:59:32,558 --> 00:59:36,038
Speaker 3: guess I'm talking about myself. But the fact that if

1164
00:59:36,078 --> 00:59:39,118
Speaker 3: you have enough strategy left in the game to be

1165
00:59:39,398 --> 00:59:42,278
Speaker 3: ahead of the curve during the course of nine innings,

1166
00:59:42,278 --> 00:59:45,718
Speaker 3: that it might benefit you. But if that playing field

1167
00:59:45,718 --> 00:59:50,358
Speaker 3: has leveled so much, it really again mitigates the importance

1168
00:59:50,358 --> 00:59:50,918
Speaker 3: of the manager.

1169
00:59:50,958 --> 00:59:52,718
Speaker 4: However, it is all about players.

1170
00:59:52,718 --> 00:59:56,758
Speaker 3: I get that it is a player's game, and I

1171
00:59:56,798 --> 00:59:59,118
Speaker 3: do love the pace, and I think that's the most important.

1172
00:59:58,758 --> 00:59:59,198
Speaker 4: Part of it.

1173
00:59:59,478 --> 01:00:00,518
Speaker 2: Exciting time of year.

1174
01:00:00,558 --> 01:00:02,718
Speaker 1: As you mentioned with Mike Sosha, you can feel it

1175
01:00:02,758 --> 01:00:03,158
Speaker 1: in the air.

1176
01:00:03,238 --> 01:00:05,678
Speaker 2: It's common. Down the stretch we come.

1177
01:00:05,998 --> 01:00:08,238
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm spelling it.

1178
01:00:08,598 --> 01:00:08,998
Speaker 4: That's right.

1179
01:00:09,038 --> 01:00:11,158
Speaker 1: Hey, great job. Well, we'll see you again next time.

1180
01:00:11,158 --> 01:00:11,958
Speaker 1: I have The Book of Joe.

1181
01:00:11,998 --> 01:00:13,278
Speaker 4: Thank you man, appreciate it.

1182
01:00:19,798 --> 01:00:22,998
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1183
01:00:23,238 --> 01:00:28,118
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1184
01:00:28,358 --> 01:00:30,118
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.