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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host Mark Kenyon in this episode number two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifteen. Ante In the show, I'm joined by Stephen

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Speaker 1: Ronella and Janice patel Us of Meat Either to discuss

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things related to their history and experiences

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Speaker 1: hunting white tailed deer, and I'm sharing some very big news.

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Speaker 1: All right, Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. And today,

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Speaker 1: like I just said, I've convinced my friends over at

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Speaker 1: Meat Eater, Steve Ronella and Janice potel Us, to come

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Speaker 1: over to the dark side with us and talk about

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Speaker 1: white tails for a bit, and uh man, it's it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a good time. You likely know Steve and

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Speaker 1: Janice from the Meat Either TV show or podcast, or

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Speaker 1: maybe from Steve's books like American Buffalo or Scavenger's Guide

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Speaker 1: Hawk Cuisine, or just from all their other adventures across

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Speaker 1: the world chasing big game and fish. But both of

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Speaker 1: these guys began their hunting careers just like me and

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Speaker 1: some of you, hunting white tails in Western Michigan. So

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Speaker 1: today I wanted to get these two back to the

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Speaker 1: roots and back to talking about deer. So that's what

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Speaker 1: we did. We had a great time with it, and

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Speaker 1: I think you're really gonna enjoy it. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to all that, I want to share some big

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Speaker 1: news with you about the future of Weird Hunt and

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Speaker 1: actually my own career. Um. If you've been listening for

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Speaker 1: a while now, you you've likely heard me allude to

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Speaker 1: some new projects over the past few months, and I'm

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Speaker 1: excited that today I can finally share with you what's

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Speaker 1: going on, some very big, very exciting stuff. But in

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Speaker 1: order to do a good job of explaining this new chapter,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I need to go back because I

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Speaker 1: think to understand where things are headed, we need to

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Speaker 1: understand where things started, how I got to this point.

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Speaker 1: So if you've heard this story before, I apologized, bear

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Speaker 1: with me for a minute, but I have to quickly

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Speaker 1: regale you with this story of Wired to Hunt. Um.

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Speaker 1: This began way back in the summer of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight. I was twenty years old, still in college.

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Speaker 1: I was working this summer internship in New York City

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Speaker 1: with a digital marketing agency. Basically My job there was

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Speaker 1: to work with bloggers to help promote their clients products.

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Speaker 1: So I'd like send free gear to UH shoe blog

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Speaker 1: and they talk about the new reybox or something. So

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Speaker 1: I'm there. I'm in New York and I'm just going

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Speaker 1: nuts because I can't be out in the wood scouting.

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Speaker 1: I can't be prepping for hunting season. I had nowhere

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Speaker 1: to go hike or fish, just surrounded by concrete and

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Speaker 1: loud noises and people everywhere. It was killing me. So

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Speaker 1: I got this idea, you know, why why couldn't I

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Speaker 1: start a blog on my own about deer hunting? And

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Speaker 1: I was working with all these other people with cool

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Speaker 1: websites and they were doing this awesome stuff. Why couldn't

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Speaker 1: I do that myself? Um? It maybe scratch that deer

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Speaker 1: hunting itch too. So, with no real prayer experience, I

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Speaker 1: started a website I called the Wired Hunt and for

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Speaker 1: a few months I dabbled on their writing stories and

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Speaker 1: articles about my past hunts and products and stuff like that. UM,

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Speaker 1: and it was fun. But when school picked back up

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Speaker 1: that fall kind of fell off the wagon. UM got

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Speaker 1: caught up in everything else until fast forward in another

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Speaker 1: year until the next fall. Now it's the fall of

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine and I'm working my first full time

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Speaker 1: job after college. I was out in Silicon Valley in

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Speaker 1: California working for this major tech company, and again I

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Speaker 1: couldn't get out in the woods and I was missing

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Speaker 1: hunting season and just going nuts. So I turned back

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Speaker 1: to wired to hunt again to scratch that itch. But

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Speaker 1: this time, things, um, things got cranked up to a

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Speaker 1: new level because while I was out there, I was

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Speaker 1: a Barnes and Noble looking around and I picked up

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Speaker 1: this book called Crush It, and it was all about

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Speaker 1: turning your passion into a career. And I read that

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Speaker 1: book and was just unbelievably inspired. It gave me this

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Speaker 1: new confidence that maybe I could do something like that too.

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Speaker 1: So after just a few weeks in that day job,

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Speaker 1: I decided, and I knew I wasn't gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to do this for the rest of my life. I

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Speaker 1: had to be working on something that I really believed in,

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Speaker 1: something that really inspired me, something that energized me, something

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Speaker 1: that I loved. So I decided that fall that someday,

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Speaker 1: no matter how much work it was gonna take, I

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Speaker 1: was going to find some way to work in the

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Speaker 1: outdoors and turn wired Hunt into a business, making a living,

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Speaker 1: doing something I was passionate about. So I started getting

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Speaker 1: after it. I woke up at four thirty every morning,

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Speaker 1: started working on the website. Then I go to the

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Speaker 1: day job. Then I come home and eat dinner, and

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Speaker 1: I'd start working on it again. I keep going till

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Speaker 1: one or two in the morning. I did this for

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Speaker 1: months and months and months. Eventually moved back to Michigan

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Speaker 1: and my girlfriend at the time, you know this is

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Speaker 1: much to her chagrin, but I was obsessed. I read

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Speaker 1: every book I could about blogging and social media and marketing,

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Speaker 1: and I dove even further head first and all things

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Speaker 1: white tails, learning everything I possibly could, taking my knowledge

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Speaker 1: and experience way up to another level, and then sharing

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Speaker 1: everything I learned along the way through weird Hunt. And

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Speaker 1: I did this for years and years, just grinding away,

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Speaker 1: working on wired Hunt every day, every night, just making

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Speaker 1: slow but steady progress. And after a couple of years

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Speaker 1: I actually began to make a little bit of money.

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Speaker 1: And then a few more years later I was making

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Speaker 1: substantial enough money that I started to think that actually,

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Speaker 1: maybe I could do this as a job, especially if

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Speaker 1: I had more time so I started working on this

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Speaker 1: plan to actually take that leap. My wife and I

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Speaker 1: had lots and lots of kitchen table chats about what

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Speaker 1: this would mean for our family, you know, how I

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Speaker 1: could actually pull something like this off. I started working

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Speaker 1: on like a savings plan. I started lining up more

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Speaker 1: little side jobs that if I could quit my job,

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Speaker 1: i'd have, you know, addition all streams of income to

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Speaker 1: help things meet. And finally, in the fall of two

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Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, I walked out of my day job at

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Speaker 1: Google and leapt off the cliff into the world of

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurship and running where you're hunting full time. It was

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Speaker 1: one of the absolute scariest but most exciting days of

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Speaker 1: my life. I remember on that final drive home from

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Speaker 1: the office that day. Um, I was on the highway

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Speaker 1: in my car, and I remember just thinking about all

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Speaker 1: this and just breaking down crying, I mean, full bore,

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Speaker 1: bawling with with joy, with just just this insane rush

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Speaker 1: of emotions. I mean, so so much work had led

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Speaker 1: up to this point, and now now it was actually happening.

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Speaker 1: It was crazy, it was thrilling, it was terrifying, and

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Speaker 1: it was it was it was real now, UM I

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Speaker 1: had achieved this massive, seemingly impossible goal. So it's now

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Speaker 1: here I was. I was doing it. I was running

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Speaker 1: the website, I was making videos, writing article close from magazines. UM.

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Speaker 1: That next spring I started the podcast, and UM that

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Speaker 1: you know, all those things kept growing and growing, and

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Speaker 1: I just kept working at it, building new relationships, trying

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Speaker 1: new things, learning more and more year after year, UM,

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Speaker 1: and things kept growing, and it was it was a

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Speaker 1: dream come true that I could do this kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, writing and talking about hunting and my outdoor

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Speaker 1: lifestyle and somehow making a living from that. I was

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Speaker 1: so so blessed. But in recent years, as much as

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Speaker 1: that was incredible and fulfilling, UM, in recent years, my

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Speaker 1: my goals and aspirations have begun to evolve. UM. In

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Speaker 1: those early years, when I first started wired Hunt, it

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Speaker 1: was just you know, to scratch that itch. And then

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Speaker 1: as it grew, it began to get to the point where,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe I can make a little bit of

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Speaker 1: money from it. And then I wanted to see if

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Speaker 1: I could build something that could reach a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: And then I did that, and then I wanted to

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Speaker 1: see if I could actually make enough from the business

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Speaker 1: to do it full time, and I did that, and

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Speaker 1: then I wanted to see, you know, could I build

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Speaker 1: things up enough where I can make a good living

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Speaker 1: and not be worried about making the mortgage payment every month.

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Speaker 1: And I was eventually able to do that. Um. But

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Speaker 1: you know, more recently, a new set of goals. Over

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Speaker 1: the past few years, a new set of goals have

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Speaker 1: grown larger and larger in my mind. UM. I think

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Speaker 1: it was two years ago that I was encouraged to

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Speaker 1: start thinking about and writing out five and ten year

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Speaker 1: goals for myself and my business. And when I started

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Speaker 1: to do that, when I started to really think about

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Speaker 1: all this, the main goals that stood out to me,

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Speaker 1: we're related to my desire to make an impact, a significant,

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Speaker 1: long lasting impact. You know, in five or ten years.

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Speaker 1: The most important things to me where that I would

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Speaker 1: hopefully be making a positive impact on the hunting community

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Speaker 1: in the future of our hunting lifestyle and our wildlife

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Speaker 1: and our wild places. You know, I wanted to look

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Speaker 1: back on my career and be able to say that

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Speaker 1: I was a leader in this space, and that I

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Speaker 1: was someone who elevated the conversation in the hunting world,

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Speaker 1: that I was someone who led by example and represented

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Speaker 1: the hunting community positively, and someone who worked to improve

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Speaker 1: how communicate about hunting and the house and the wise

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Speaker 1: and the what's of it all, both within and outside

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Speaker 1: the hunting world. And I wanted to be someone who

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Speaker 1: left a meaningful mark on the conservation of our wildlife

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Speaker 1: populations and the lands and waters in the environment that

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Speaker 1: supports them and all of us. And when these things

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Speaker 1: started rising to the top of my list, I realized

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Speaker 1: that my actions would have to evolve too. So that's

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Speaker 1: where things stood last year, and I started addressing those

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Speaker 1: goals by embarking on this major new writing project that

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Speaker 1: I've alluded to for a while now, and that's still

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Speaker 1: very much in the works. I'll be announcing that soon too.

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Speaker 1: But another opportunity that fit just right in line with

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Speaker 1: these future goals dropped into my lap last summer when

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Speaker 1: I got a call from Stephen Ronnella and um he

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Speaker 1: asked me what I was doing the first week in September,

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Speaker 1: and I told him, well, I've got this Montana whitetail

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Speaker 1: hunt planned. Uh, but you know, if the next few

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Speaker 1: sentences are very compelling, I could probably be flexible with that.

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Speaker 1: And as you know that ended up leading to an

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Speaker 1: invitation to go on this Alaskan Carameu hunt that I

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Speaker 1: did go on. It was an amazing trip. Um. But

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Speaker 1: a few days after that initial invitation, I got another

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Speaker 1: call from Steve Um. I remember that moment well. I

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Speaker 1: was actually standing in the middle of the Tea Town

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Speaker 1: River in eastern Idaho fly fishing, and I see Steve

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Speaker 1: pop up on the caller I d and I figured

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Speaker 1: out I ought to take this. So I wait over

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Speaker 1: to a little island and I sat down, picked up

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Speaker 1: the phone, and after very little introduction, Steve just jumps

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Speaker 1: right into it. He says to me something on the

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Speaker 1: lines of mark, I want you to help me revolutionize

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Speaker 1: outdoor media. You know it was it was pretty pretty big.

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Speaker 1: He told me he wanted to he was planning on

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Speaker 1: he was starting a new company, and that he wanted

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Speaker 1: me to help him build it, and he wanted me

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Speaker 1: to be one of the leading voices of this new endeavor. Um.

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Speaker 1: He told me about all the exciting new things we

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Speaker 1: could do together and the impact we could have as

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Speaker 1: a team with bigger ideas and more resources and wild

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Speaker 1: He didn't give me a kind of details about the

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Speaker 1: new project. That night he did promise to tell me

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Speaker 1: more in Alaska, and I remember just sitting there on

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Speaker 1: Mountains to my east, and just kind of being blown

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Speaker 1: away by how much things had changed since those early

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Speaker 1: years and that little cinder block New York City, one

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Speaker 1: room apartment of misery. Um. I just remember my mind

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Speaker 1: being a buzz with questions. You know, what could this

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Speaker 1: lead to? You know, was this something I should do?

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Speaker 1: What would this look like? How in the world did

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Speaker 1: I get to this point? Um? You know, I never

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Speaker 1: in the past ever considered for a second changing in

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Speaker 1: any substantial way what I was doing with Wired Hunt,

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Speaker 1: or the idea of going into business with anyone else.

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Speaker 1: But here was this opportunity with Steve that I had

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Speaker 1: to look really hard at. Um. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: to me with an idea like this and actually gotten

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Speaker 1: me to buy into it. But but Steve was unique,

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Speaker 1: and that I've looked up to him for a very

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Speaker 1: long time as a role model of sorts um and

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Speaker 1: as as the absolute finest example I believe of what

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Speaker 1: a leader in the hunting and fishing space should be doing. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've looked at Steve over the years as the best

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Speaker 1: spokesman and representative of our community and for a long

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Speaker 1: time now, um, you know, I've been working with long

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Speaker 1: term aspirations of some day hopefully doing enough good to

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Speaker 1: be in that conversation too, And now here that guy

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Speaker 1: was asking me to step up alongside of him and

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Speaker 1: to work together. So now fast forward more than six

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Speaker 1: months and many many conversations later, and many long sleepless

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Speaker 1: nights of debating what to do, and here we are,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very excited to announce now that Steve and

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Speaker 1: myself and a handful of other like minded people are

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Speaker 1: building a new company combining what he's done with meat

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Speaker 1: Eater and what I've done with Wired Hunt, with the

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Speaker 1: goal of really revolutionizing the hunting and fishing media landscape

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Speaker 1: and to take things is in a new and more

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Speaker 1: positive direction and to leave a very real, long lasting legacy. Now,

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Speaker 1: how exactly all that's gonna look, um, and how it's

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Speaker 1: all gonna happen, that's still very much up in the air.

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Speaker 1: We are very early in the development of the company.

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Speaker 1: Still there are lots of unknowns. Um, we will be

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Speaker 1: sharing lots more in the weeks and months to come,

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Speaker 1: but I can promise there are some very cool things

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Speaker 1: in the works. So in the short term though, here's

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Speaker 1: what's happening. Wired Hunt is still going to be continuing

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Speaker 1: on as is. UM. The Wired Hunt podcast will be

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Speaker 1: living on UH into infinity. UM, I'll be continue doing

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Speaker 1: my wired Dump videos. But I'm just gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to do all these things now with with much more

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Speaker 1: support and resources. I'm actually gonna have other people a

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Speaker 1: team to help me do this kind of stuff rather

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Speaker 1: than just little on me trying to do everything. So

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Speaker 1: this just means that everything's gonna be higher quality, produced

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Speaker 1: at a greater scale, UH, and with new opportunities that

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Speaker 1: just never could have had as a solo operation. And

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Speaker 1: you're also gonna see you know, me getting more involve

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Speaker 1: the different Mediator projects too, and some brand new projects

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Speaker 1: for me and Steve and others as well. So lots

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Speaker 1: of exciting things in the future. UM. One other thing

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Speaker 1: I did want to briefly mention is that along with

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Speaker 1: all these exciting developments, you know, they're also gonna be

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Speaker 1: some changes you'll probably notice with some of the partners

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Speaker 1: we've worked with um Inevitably, when combining brands like Steve

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Speaker 1: and I are doing, they're gonna be some adjustments and

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Speaker 1: changes necessary to get everyone moving in the same direction. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some of that we're still in the process of figuring

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Speaker 1: out right now. But one change you'll likely notice, and

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Speaker 1: I thought was at least mentioning here, was our change

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Speaker 1: from working with sit Gear to now inheriting Steve and

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Speaker 1: meteators long and positive relationship with First Life. And I

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Speaker 1: just want to call this out because Sitka has been

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Speaker 1: such a great partner to Wired Hunt and myself personally

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Speaker 1: over the years. They have been one of our absolute

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Speaker 1: greatest supporters from the very beginning, and I've been a

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Speaker 1: huge believer in their team and their product and their

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Speaker 1: mission and I can't how much I've appreciated that relationship.

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Speaker 1: So you know, while Sitka will not be our title

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Speaker 1: sponsor on the podcast anymore, I will always be a

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Speaker 1: friend of the company and the people there, and I

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Speaker 1: have nothing but very good things to say about what

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Speaker 1: they've got going on. That said, I am very excited

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Speaker 1: to to get to know the first like Gear firsthand

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Speaker 1: this year, and given my experiences with folks from their

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Speaker 1: team like Ryan Callahan. I know it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: great group to work with as well, and given their

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Speaker 1: strong focus on conservation and public plan advocacy, I'm also

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Speaker 1: excited to see what we can do on that front.

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Speaker 1: So UM, I've also heard that myself and Steve and

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Speaker 1: the meat Ear team are going to have a unique

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Speaker 1: ability to influence new product design moving forward as well,

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Speaker 1: so that's something to look forward to also. So there

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Speaker 1: it is, folks, the biggest news I've had to share

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Speaker 1: in at least five years or so. It's a big

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Speaker 1: new direction in my career and life and with Wired

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Speaker 1: to Hunt, and I'm stoked about it. Um, just very

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Speaker 1: very excited and very very thankful. But what I really

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Speaker 1: need to tell you is that none of this would

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Speaker 1: be possible without all of you, the Wired hunt community.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've gotten so many notes and emails and

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Speaker 1: messages of support and feedback over the years, and some

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Speaker 1: of you have been following me from the very beginning,

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Speaker 1: way back in two thousand and eight and have supported

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Speaker 1: me all along the way, and I just can't thank

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Speaker 1: you enough. I mean, words just don't do it justice.

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Speaker 1: But UM, serving a community like this one, people like you,

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Speaker 1: it has made this the most fulfilling work I could

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Speaker 1: ever ask for, and I'm so excited to continue doing

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Speaker 1: that moving forward, just hopefully in an even more impactful way.

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Speaker 1: So thank you for that opportunity. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as as we say every every week, thanks for staying

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Speaker 1: weird to hunt. Now, enough of all that, I know

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Speaker 1: what you really want to hear about is deer and

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Speaker 1: you want to hear from Steve and Yanni. So let's

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Speaker 1: take a very quick break to thank our partners at

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Speaker 1: White Tail Properties and then let's get right into it.

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Speaker 1: This week with white Tail Properties, we are joined by

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Speaker 1: Billy O'Connor, a land specialist out of Kansas, and Billy

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Speaker 1: is going to be telling us about what to consider

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Speaker 1: when buying a property with a friend. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: buying a property the friend is a great idea. You know,

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Speaker 1: it helps you get more land for less and it

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Speaker 1: also helps with the cost and investment of time that

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Speaker 1: kind of need for improvements. Plus it's just fun to

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Speaker 1: kind of share in the experience of owning land with

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Speaker 1: someone who is passionate about the outdoors as you are.

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Speaker 1: But you do need to think through the process a

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Speaker 1: little bit to make sure that you kind of cover

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Speaker 1: all scenarios kind of going down the road. When buying

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Speaker 1: with a friend, you first want to talk through ideally

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Speaker 1: what each partner wants out of the experience. You know,

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Speaker 1: is this for an investment. Is it to raise mature

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Speaker 1: whitetail by let him get to a certain age class.

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Speaker 1: Is it a place you want to bring friends and

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Speaker 1: family to hunt as well? Assuming you both want to

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Speaker 1: manage for deer. Usually friends have the same goal and

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Speaker 1: approach to management, but often one person will want to

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Speaker 1: hunt other things such as quail and small game, and

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Speaker 1: the other partner may not necessarily want to do that,

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Speaker 1: So you kind of want to talk all that through. UM.

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Speaker 1: If you are not a state buyer, you do need

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind at the state of Kansas, you're

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Speaker 1: allowed want to land an attag per eighty acres, So

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Speaker 1: if you both want land under tags, you need to

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Speaker 1: make sure the properties of hundred six acres or more.

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Speaker 1: I'd suggest you buy the property under an LLC UM.

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Speaker 1: That way, everything could kind of be explained in the

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Speaker 1: by laws. In the event that something does come down

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Speaker 1: the road where you guys do need to split it

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Speaker 1: or sell it. You know, things such as a divorce

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Speaker 1: or someone has more kids than they anticipated, and or

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Speaker 1: a death in the family and someone needs to sell. Um.

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Speaker 1: Those type of things. You can kind of go over

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Speaker 1: and get that out of the way from the get go.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more and to see the

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Speaker 1: properties that Billy currently has listed for sale, visit white

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Speaker 1: tail properties dot com. Backslash O'Connor. That's O C O

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Speaker 1: N N O R. I like that. We can hear

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Speaker 1: the yeah, oh yeah, that's good. Smart to keep the darman. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So we're here with the honest Pitelis and Steve or

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Speaker 1: Nolla and a lot of frogs and a lot of frogs.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're sitting in a log cabin kind of deal.

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Speaker 1: And I want to I want to pull you guys

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Speaker 1: into my world because so often you guys are off

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Speaker 1: running around Alaska or somewhere exciting, and I'm chasing white

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Speaker 1: tails all the time. So when I come onto the

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Speaker 1: Mediator podcast, I feel like a little bit like the

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Speaker 1: redheaded step child. But you don't actually feel like you're

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Speaker 1: stuck though. No, no, no, no, but dude, that's not

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Speaker 1: it's not. But here's the thing. What you're saying isn't true. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do, what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but I mean, I get what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: but I'm like, like, I do a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: that would be way beneath most outdoors, such as if

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Speaker 1: it's channel cats in the middle of the winter. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that's true on small game fish, rough fish. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is the point I'm trying to get to though,

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Speaker 1: is that while you guys are often on these very

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Speaker 1: glamorous super hunts that people look at and maybe dream about,

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Speaker 1: like gray squirrels in Kentucky playing dogs exactly, you both

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Speaker 1: began or poll poland the limb line and jug fishing

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Speaker 1: for cats in the Ohio River. This too. What I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to say, Steve, is that you guys did begin

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Speaker 1: right here in Michigan chasing white Actually not that far

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Speaker 1: from here. Mega nostalgia on the way in today for sure,

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Speaker 1: because we're in southwestern Michigan. Both of you guys come

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Speaker 1: from my home state. Be honest, you're really close to home,

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Speaker 1: right Yeah. I'd say I'm probably within thirty miles and

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Speaker 1: a couple hours for you, Steve. So we are in

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Speaker 1: the heart of our history, all three of us right

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Speaker 1: here Michigan deer country. So I want to try to

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Speaker 1: convince you guys to talk white tails with me for

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Speaker 1: an evening. Uh, I would love to do you. But, um,

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Speaker 1: just before we get started, do you mean, um, like

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Speaker 1: white tails in the way that I understood them when

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Speaker 1: I was growing up as a Michigan white tail hunter

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Speaker 1: or some or different than that? No, that I want.

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Speaker 1: I want us to talk about your history where it

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Speaker 1: started for you guys with white tails, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: kind of go from there. Um, But before we get

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Speaker 1: to your own personal histories with white tails, Steve, you

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Speaker 1: always do a really nice job talking about the natural

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Speaker 1: history of different critters when you're going on a hunt

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Speaker 1: or talking about them. Do you have any interesting white

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Speaker 1: tail natural history that you could spring on us? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Can please it? Okay if it involves black tail deer mulder, Well,

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Speaker 1: of course it would. Okay. So there's an idea and

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Speaker 1: I don't know that this idea is true, but there's

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Speaker 1: an idea of how of that of this demonstrates how

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Speaker 1: successful the white tailed deer is as a species. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be people you hear this, and they might

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Speaker 1: fact check. They might fact check and dispute elements of it,

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Speaker 1: but there's a narrative that that goes um that for

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Speaker 1: that white tails have been around and kind of in

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Speaker 1: there sort of same recognizable state for vastly longer than

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Speaker 1: our other deer species, and that they have been almost

433
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: in perpetuity, that they have had sort of their central

434
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: zone being down to the south what's now the southeastern

435
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: United States. And there was a time historically, during a

436
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: very wet period when white tails moved their way across

437
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: and basically colin eyes the whole country from coast to coast,

438
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: And then a dry period came and white tails shrunk

439
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 1: back to the southeast US and left a remnant population

440
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: of deer along the Pacific coast and the wetter areas

441
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: of the Pacific coast. Over time, over the hundreds of

442
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: thousands of years, those became black tails. Later, during another

443
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: long wet period, those black tails expanded their range eastward,

444
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: and white tails once again expanded their range westward. There

445
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 1: was a hybridization event that happened, and that is where

446
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: we got the muleteer from. And the milder is a

447
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: very new species, and the mule deer is very uh finicky,

448
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: the most fragile of those fragile, finicky, ultimately ephemeral species.

449
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: But you have this white tail that can just do

450
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: that's always been and seemingly always will be on the landscape.

451
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: So that the theory being that white tails are the

452
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: original This is I think, um, this, this is an

453
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: idea put forth by Valarious Geist. He seems to be

454
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: authority on many unlets, you know, and some people will

455
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 1: say he's an authority on many things. He's not actually

456
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: an authority on but um in the like in the

457
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: ungulate world. But Vlarious GUIs has a lot of interesting ideas.

458
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: I was reading the pieces not long agover. He's postulating

459
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: that the reason Clovis and Foalsome points are fluted is

460
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: that they were packing that projectile points is that they

461
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: were packing that fluted piece with some sort of poison, right,

462
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: which is an idea you will not find in mainstream

463
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: anthropological corners. But it's an idea that that he just

464
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 1: kind of puts out like he he now and then

465
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: we're just like sort of introduced these big ideas and

466
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: then as you know, a friend of mine put it

467
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: like he'll introduce a big idea and then kind of

468
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: leave the room as everything catches on fire like a drop,

469
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: the mic moment just steps out. It's like, try and

470
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: argue about that for a while. Wow, So that's how's

471
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: that for a white tailed tip? That was good. I'm

472
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: not standing behind any of it. I'm just telling that's

473
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: the thing that I that's the thing I read from

474
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: a single source and didn't take the time, didn't take

475
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: the time to go and see if if it's if

476
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: it's if there's a sort of academic consensus around that

477
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: idea or not. It is interesting, and it is it

478
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense and a little but when you

479
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: look at the fidelity of the species of the white

480
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: tailed of all the species, they've makes sense. They've been

481
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: around the longest here because they are the most adapted

482
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: to the widespread environments as they can make anything work,

483
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: They can do anything. Yeah, and they look how readily

484
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: they adapted to human presence. Yeah. Well, I just did

485
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: a podcast on my own about coyotes recently and how

486
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: kind of like there's a few species here that have

487
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: done amazingly well living with humans. White tails, coyotes, rats,

488
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: and basic vermin like that Canada geese, the crow. They

489
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: they've found a way to make it work, and that's

490
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: that's kind of admirable, I think to a degree. It's

491
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: interesting when you're in a grocery store parking lot and

492
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: there's a bird hop around under your car. It's probably

493
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: an English sparrow that birds not you know that birds

494
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: a Eurasian bird. It's not from here. It's the most

495
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: um populous bird on the planet and has the largest

496
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: home range of any bird on the planet. This is

497
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: one of those winners, man, They just win, and white

498
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: tails just win. And it's funny how we uh, what's

499
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: the word I always forget when you put like human

500
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: traits to animals and ye are morphires these animals, and

501
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: how you look at that trait is admirable, where really

502
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: it's just the it's just been natural selection that has

503
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: made those animals succeed, right, And we look at it

504
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: as sort of this admirable trait. But it's just like

505
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of how the ship's rolled. Yeah, yeah, no,

506
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: that yeah, it's true. I don't know that I look

507
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: at it as admirable because I I tend to like

508
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: I tend to like those um That's what I'm trying

509
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: to say. There's two kinds of people in this world,

510
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: there's kind of people that you lump everyone into two groups.

511
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: So there's two kinds of people in this world. I

512
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: ain't just the ones that look and they like they

513
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: like they love those winners, right, So you're the guy

514
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: that loves you like you love carp Like there's a

515
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: successful species, carp crows successful species, Canada geese successful species,

516
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: white tailed deer successful species, the Norway rat successful species,

517
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: and people look at that and like that's what I like.

518
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: I tend to have more of an emotional attachment to

519
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: those finicky, more delicate species that are they just don't

520
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: cope well with people, that don't coexist well with people.

521
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: They um, I kind of like see more of like

522
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: a sort of more beauty in their story. That just

523
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: means fifty years ago you would have been bodies with

524
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: the Canada goose. Now you're not. Yeah, fifty years ago

525
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: sure would have been like I used to like Canada

526
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: case and it seemed like they were going to vanish

527
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: from the face of the earth. But I feel like,

528
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: I feel like you're that guy who says, well, I

529
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: like that band before they are cool. That's kind of

530
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: kind of what this is. Yeah, Yeah, it's like Um,

531
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: you know what it is is because because I think that, uh,

532
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, I I really appreciate wilderness, you know, and

533
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: so and so I think that there's some of these

534
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: things that the animals that don't the animals that don't

535
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: do well with people, that don't do well with civilization.

536
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 1: We tend to associate with wilderness, and I like wildern.

537
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: However you define it, you know, I have my own

538
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: personal way that I would sort of go about defining it. Um.

539
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: And there's animals I associate with it, right, So like

540
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: grizzly bears. Right, it's not that grizzly bears don't It's

541
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: not that grizzly bears don't cope well with people. People

542
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: don't cope well with grizzly bears. I think if if,

543
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: if when they come up, when they start to like

544
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: interface with populated areas, they die. They tend to get

545
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: killed because they get themselves in trouble. I think that

546
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: if we had just utmost tolerance for the bears and

547
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: we're deferential to the bears, they would probably be doing great.

548
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: But when they butt up against people, they suffer. Right,

549
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: they can't coexist. Um And And there's a handful of

550
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: other things, but that you're right about. The point you

551
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: make about knees is a valuable point because I think

552
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: that you're the same way. You could have gone back

553
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: to nine thirty and you would have listed the wild

554
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: turkey in with with grizzly bears and milder and even

555
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: white tails. You would have said, like, there's an animal

556
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: that can't hack it, when in fact it was just

557
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: it just needed the slightest bit of help with a

558
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: little bit of regulations. You could say that it's important

559
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: that people do care about these underdog species at times

560
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: because they won't have the chance to get to that

561
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: higher end of the cycle of no one did. Thank goodness,

562
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: people cared about turkeys and deer and said that that's

563
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: a that's an underdog species right now. I like that

564
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: because now they're top of the chain again. Yeah, but

565
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: you did exactly what I said, we weren't gonna do.

566
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: You've you've got us talking about grizzly bears, did you did?

567
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: I know? I think you invited it. White tails, guys,

568
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: white tails. I want to talk about your first deer,

569
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: your first white tailed deer. You're honest, do you remember

570
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: that that experience? First one ever kilt? Yeah, how do

571
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: how'd they go? Uh? We were outside killed it got away? No,

572
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: my first ball out kind of got away. I thought

573
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: you got is there, So you got one and even

574
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: was like sort of confirmed that you had gotten it,

575
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 1: and then you came back and it wasn't there anymore.

576
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but that's much later I was. Yeah, I

577
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: was an adult, yeah, very yeah. No, yeah, we don't

578
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: have to rehash that story. I think we've already told

579
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: it twice on on the Meteor podcast. But yeah, we're

580
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: outside of three hours Michigan, Uh, near the Latvian campus

581
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: that three rivers archree? Is that a different three rivers?

582
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: The different three rivers? I think a different three rivers

583
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: um And we were it was probably we only stand

584
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: hunted until nine or ten usually opening day, and then

585
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: it was drives from there on out the rest of

586
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: Saturday and all Sunday, and I say all Sunday. It

587
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: was probably half a Sunday and uh, we just like

588
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: that was kind of like the whole hunt. Right, it

589
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: lasted about a day and a half. How how old

590
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: were you at this point? Whatever the minimum age was,

591
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: So I think I've been hunting in Wisconsin already for

592
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: a couple of years, but hadn't killed one yet. And uh,

593
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: we were doing a drive and I was a shooter.

594
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: I think a couple can't quite remember. A couple three

595
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: came running by and I emptied, however many slugs I

596
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: had in my gun, I emptied him at a running deer.

597
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: H if I had to guess the range. Twe eat

598
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: a forty yards pretty close, shooting from the hip. No, no,

599
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: no that, but definitely kind of leading the animal. And uh,

600
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: it was the last shot and it just cartwheel rolled over.

601
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: Was that like do you expected that happened? Or was

602
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: that surprising? Like? Oh, should I actually had it? Oh? Man?

603
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: Probably a little bit of both. I mean you're, yeah,

604
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: you're you're expect you're shooting and you're expecting it to happen,

605
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: but then when it does, you're like, oh, you know,

606
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: and uh it was emotional. I can't. I think the

607
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: emotions came later because I was sort of just an

608
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: awe at first. Walked over there to it, and uh,

609
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: you know it is on a drive, the deer get

610
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: pushed through, there's a bunch of shooting, and then you

611
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: sort of figure out slowly who actually hit some stuff

612
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: and you kind of help people retrieve deer, and you

613
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: go over and get do some gutting and you know,

614
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: helping whatnot dry I go out, so it took it.

615
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: So I had a few minutes alone with the deer

616
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: before someone else got there, and I remember walking up

617
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: to it and not seeing a hole in it. Got

618
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: scratching my head like you know, maybe it's not dead,

619
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: and its head was just kind of tilted over just

620
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I grabbed its ear and when

621
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: I pulled its ear, it was almost like just half

622
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: of its head came towards me and I had somehow

623
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: like I don't know exactly where it hit, but basically

624
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: the it was like a perfect melon. The skull had

625
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: just cracked open like a perfect melon, and the brain

626
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: was just sitting there. It was wild. Um, I mean

627
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: not like way way open. That is an exaggeration, but

628
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: I remember looking in there and seeing the brain. But

629
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't like it was all mushine. There wasn't eyeballs

630
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: popping out everywhere. It was just a glancing hit. Who

631
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: knows very quick death. Yeah, Like yeah, when it hit

632
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: the ground, it didn't flop, but that's not where you were.

633
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: You don't know where you're aiming, just leading a deer

634
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: running through the woods, you know, m hm um and

635
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: uh yeah, So it was I think as the people

636
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: came there and you start to get congratulations and you

637
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: get the blood smeared on your face. I don't think

638
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: my dad ever really did that, but someone in the

639
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: group did. Yeah. Did he feels the lavian thing? No? No, no,

640
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: I don't know they picked it up from Red Dawn maybe. Um,

641
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, there was congratulations and uh, you know, I

642
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 1: was excited and there was you know, but I definitely

643
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: remember like some severe remorse, you know, definitely some tears,

644
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, trying to process at all. It was remember

645
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: being a heavy duty. So it was like, after all,

646
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: like the cheers and the handshakes and everything, when you

647
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: were thinking about it later that you started feeling it

648
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: was right then and there. It was right there and there.

649
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: I think I was probably over it by the time

650
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: we're dragging the deer out of the woods. I was

651
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: thinking of about when I was going to shoot the

652
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: next year. You know. For me, it was when I

653
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: when I first when I saw it, I've been we're tracking, tracking, tracking,

654
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: when you walked up on it and you first spot it,

655
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: and I had this just like I don't know, this

656
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: dropping of my stomach or something feeling right, like, wow,

657
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: that's it's dead. Has happened, It's real. Did you A

658
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: lot of people talk about and I experienced this too,

659
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 1: that first shot at a deer that first year you killed.

660
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: Maybe those two things didn't happen the same same instance,

661
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: but you almost blackout. Some people talk about like it happened,

662
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: and then you're like WHOA, Like, I don't remember drawing

663
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: my bow or aiming the gun or doing anything. It

664
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: just like I went an autopilot. Just happened. Did you

665
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: have anything like that where you mentally in it? Do

666
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: you remember, Um, yeah, I don't remember, like a blackout

667
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: sort of a situation. The next year, I was bowl hunting,

668
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: but the day before the opening shotgunner and I had

669
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: a doge come up within a few yards and I

670
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: was shaking so bad that the arrow just fell right

671
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: out of my bow and hit the ground and somehow

672
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: got it back in there. And she just had circled

673
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: around me and she's on the other side of a

674
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: like a snag and I just there. That was more

675
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: like blackout, because I mean she was feet away, and

676
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: I was shaken and just like must shoot arrow an animal,

677
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: you know, and I fired one loose it went right

678
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: over her back, and you know she ran off. UM,

679
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: and I feel like they're uh there. I had no control, Like,

680
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: you know, I was not in control of what I

681
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: was doing. You know, you're just trying to just make

682
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: it through so that you get that experience. Hopefully next time,

683
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, you can have some composure. Yeah, it's it's interesting.

684
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: I talked to so many different people and kind of

685
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: this topic comes up a lot. Often. You hear some

686
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: people that never ever had that experience. They're always in

687
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: control in the moment. You talk to some people that

688
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,959
Speaker 1: they're still experiencing that now even though they've been hunting

689
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: for ten or fifteen years. And then there's some people

690
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: that it's like an evolution, like some people kind of

691
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: build that control over time. I don't know if it's

692
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: a personality trait or if it's just your emotion level

693
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: or what it is. I don't know, Steve, do you

694
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: have anything like that? Did you think it's I think

695
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: it's it's um. I think for most people, exposure diminishes

696
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: it because he just there's less uh, less adrenaline. You know,

697
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: my older brother talks about the thing where he um.

698
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: What he doesn't like when he gets rattled, you know,

699
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: bow hunting for elk right, he gets rattled and like

700
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: blows a shot. What he doesn't like is he feels

701
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: that that it. What he doesn't like about himself in

702
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: those situations that he feels is that he's so lusty.

703
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: He's so lusty for that elk right. He wants. It's

704
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: so bad that um that it rattles him, like his

705
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: desire becomes so like overwhelming that he can't function properly interesting.

706
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: And later he looks at that um almost like to

707
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: flow a shot. He looks at it almost like a

708
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: sin of the flesh, like the way someone might be like, oh,

709
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: I didn't wish I didn't cheat on my wife, but

710
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: I'm so overcome by passion and now I hate myself,

711
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: Like he'll feel that way about flopping a shot. He's like,

712
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: why do I have to want that so bad that

713
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: I can't do it in the way that I do

714
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: the normal things that I do in my life, Like

715
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: I don't get all panicky when I'm doing normal things

716
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: about my wife? Why do I get panicky? Then yeah,

717
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: whenever I'm having a hunting season where I haven't had

718
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: much success yet that my wife is always saying, you

719
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: want it too bad, You want it too bad. As

720
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: soon as you stop, Karen, you'll get that, dear, So

721
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: something to do it. Do you remember your first year?

722
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, man, vividly, vividly so uh well, But for

723
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: whatever reason, in my family, we would kind of jump

724
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: the gun on the legal hunting ages. Like my dad,

725
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: like he looked like my dad would look at sort

726
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: of the big major points of the law and abide

727
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: by those, but like some details were kind of lost

728
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: on him. And I think that he wasn't, you know,

729
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: brought He wasn't really brought up in a way to um,

730
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: he wasn't brought up in a way that people paid

731
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: a lot of attention to that stuff. I think just

732
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: who he's, who he was surrounded by and in his

733
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: formative years. So yeah, I started. I remember being up

734
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: in my own tree stand when I was levin with

735
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: the boat too, so young that like my old man

736
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: would march me down and or send me down whatever

737
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: into a river bottom to be up in a tree

738
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: and it would get dark and just be petrified definitely

739
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: afraid of getting out of that tree and would just wait,

740
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: you know, more of my brothers would ever come down,

741
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: or my dad would come and shine a light from

742
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: up on the top of the ridge or something, and

743
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: I'd have to get down. It's being so scared man

744
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: like that young, you know. And they were the first

745
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: The first year I missed my first encounter where the

746
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: buck was early in the season when I was eleven,

747
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, heart coming through was have

748
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: no idea what the hell that would be. And it

749
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: turns out like a butt kind of walking by me

750
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 1: and probably arranged, but I was sold, just like wow,

751
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: you know. Then later that year we went up to Baldwin.

752
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: We used to hunt some public land up and Baldwin

753
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: at a place called Teapot Trail because someone who hung

754
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: a teapot in a tree, and of course people then

755
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: have to like shooting full of holes of twenty two

756
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: and whatnot because there's something hanging tree, you gotta shoot

757
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: at it, right. So it's a shot up teapot hanging

758
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: at the entrance of this trail on public land up

759
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: Mannesseee National Forest, and we would hunt it by just

760
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: walking the logging roads until you found her two or

761
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: three deer had recently crossed the road. Then you'd go

762
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: in seventy yards off the side of the road and

763
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: hang up a stand and just sit the trail all

764
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: the better if you found it. If that trail intersected

765
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: another trail that had two or three deer tracks on it,

766
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: then you were like in the money. So maybe we

767
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: caught a track crossing the road. We caught like where

768
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: it looked like a deer yesterday had cross teapot trail,

769
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: and it looked like a deer today had cross teapot trail,

770
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: went and hung up a tree stand. I mean I

771
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: wasn't sitting there in an hour man alone at eleven,

772
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, sitting there an hour and here comes this

773
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: for this forky in this thing, I mean you could

774
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: reach out and grabbed it. You know, he's ten ten

775
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: yards off the base of the tree. And I remember

776
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: shooting right underneath them and just feeling sick, just feeling

777
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: sick about it. Then what why do you feel sick?

778
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: Was it because you'd failed yourself? Were you afraid of

779
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: just because I think just missed? Yeah, whatever, I don't

780
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: know if it's because I can't remember like what it was.

781
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: But just like you know, you grew up around deer hunters,

782
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: so you want to be a deer hunter, you want

783
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: to get a deer and just being so bummed, you

784
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: know not I think about it. Maybe was twelve when

785
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: I missed that one, but that you know I was

786
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: because I had my first Yeah, it wasn't that it

787
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: was so I was twelve. I was eleven when I

788
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: had the first time. I heard a buck come grunting

789
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: through the woods and passed by me and I couldn't

790
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: even pull together to pick up my boat. He wasn't

791
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: like really close, but it was just remember like a

792
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: real moment, and you know where that was. There used

793
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: to be a place like I grew up in an

794
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: area where an area mission where there was a lot

795
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: of camps, so we had um O wasap e Scout

796
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: camp was near us. I used to When I was thirteen,

797
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: I got a job washing dishes that camp Pendaluon. I'll

798
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: be washing dishes and the campers were older and I

799
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: was yeah, the band camp kids were like my two

800
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: years older. Me and me my brother back there Washington,

801
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: damn dishes, mixing kool aid in the garbage camp of

802
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: the canoe paddle a camp Pendaluan. So all these camps,

803
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: like all the kids would come camp, but in the

804
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: fall would just be empty land. And you could buy

805
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: a waspy. You could buy a permit. You could go

806
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: buy like a trespass permit for ten bucks. I mean

807
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: it was that cheap. I membe we could buy an

808
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: ice fishing permit for three dollars or something. So that

809
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: buck was on a Waspy scout land Waspy boy scout camp,

810
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: which I think now is not a Waspy camp anymore.

811
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: And then um, I turned thirteen, and you're not supposed

812
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: to hunt with a rifle to your fourteen, but I

813
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: was doing it during this one year grace period that

814
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: we were allowed in my family for whatever reason. I

815
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: was thirteen and just like, yeah, don't even were doing

816
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: a deer drive. So we sat in the morning in

817
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: our ground blinds, because before you could hunt from the

818
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: elevated platform. We sat in the morning and our ground blinds,

819
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: and and we knew this area along this this creek,

820
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 1: Mosquito Creek. We knew this area where there was a

821
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: big bend and a big bottom area. It was full

822
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: of like multi flora rose and and uh, a lot

823
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: of tall grass down there. It's like a lot of

824
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: sunlight would come through down in this area. And we

825
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: knew that deer bed up down in there, and we

826
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: knew when you bumped him out of there. This is

827
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: on a farm owned by a family called the Zerlat family. Um.

828
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: They they had they ran a dairy operation and they

829
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: grew without of lflf and corn to feed their own dairy.

830
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: Um and they did they did something they had They

831
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: had an orchard, They did some apple, they did some

832
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: apple stuff and did some timber um. And my dad

833
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: was friends with him through church, so we would hunt

834
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: their place, and uh, we had done it enough. It's

835
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: just the family have been hunted so long. You knew

836
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: that there was a deer there, you knew what ridge

837
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: they went up. So my brother in law, my brother

838
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: went down and I went on the ravine, the ridge

839
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: they used to climb out of the ravine, and I

840
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: just sat there and heard him her deer coming. And

841
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: this deer pulled up less than ten yards away. But

842
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: all I could see was its face and neck. I

843
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: could see the white patch on its throat, and I

844
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 1: was shooting a Marlon. It was a model Winchester model

845
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 1: but thirty two special, which I had gotten from a

846
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: man named Eugene Grots. And this guy, Eugene Grots, my

847
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: dad hung out and he's in his seventies. He's a

848
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: World War Two that like my old man. And he

849
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: had a gun for every year he'd been alive. And

850
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: at some point he realized you had like an extra

851
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: one or two and let me pick one, and he

852
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: gave you this model ninety four and the thirty two special.

853
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: And I had a peep site on and I remember

854
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: I had like a little reduce or you could screw

855
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: into the peep site and I remember center that pezza

856
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: in the white patch and that deer still it was

857
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: a spike corn bucking and uh hit him high. You

858
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: still have that rifle? No, you know what? I sold

859
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: for three hundred bucks because I wanted a like a

860
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: that was yeah, when everybody wanted a thirty at six

861
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: and stuff right, people were getting sick of thirty thirties

862
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: and sick of thirty two and wanted like thirty at

863
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: sixes And sold for for next and nothing to a

864
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: place called five hundred Guns. Um hit the deer kind

865
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: of hit a bad hitting the jaw rolled down the

866
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: hill and instead of just working the level action. I

867
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: remember like I did a lot of fur trap and

868
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 1: I like the mountain meant a lot stuff. I remember

869
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: I had my knife like on the outside of my shirt,

870
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: like a she nw if you know, a butcher's knife, right,

871
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: skin and knife. And remember I ran down the hill

872
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: and and got down on the deer, and the deer

873
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: got back up again, and I jumped on the deer.

874
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: It just didn't occur me to shoot it, you know.

875
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: And I jumped on deer and wrestled it down, tackled

876
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: to the ground and cut its throat. Yeah, just like

877
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: pants not yeah, not having any just didn't occur. Like

878
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: looking back in my mind, like why would it shots?

879
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: You're gonna have no idea. Remember the thing got up,

880
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: I was like, this thing's not getting away, and I

881
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: jumped right on its back. What was the rest of

882
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: the crew impressed? They weren't there when they heard the story,

883
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: though I don't remember that. I remember I carried it

884
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: was small enough that I carried it up out of

885
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: there on my shoulders. I can tell you the shirt

886
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: I had on it was one of those quilted quilted

887
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: flannel shirts. It was kind of a rust color with

888
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: blue and green stripes, blue and green checker pattern over it.

889
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: And I had a pair of Army syrplus wool pants on,

890
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: and I had a pair of and I had a

891
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: pair of pack boots on leather upper rubber by the

892
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: packed boots. What was the weather like? Sunny, hot, unseasonably hot.

893
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: It would have been probably November sevent Do you remember this,

894
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: I remember so clear Remember the first time you ate

895
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: that dear, the first time you ate meat from the

896
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: first deer you ever killed. Yeah, we ate the heart

897
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: that morning. I remember that clearly because I brought it

898
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: home and the old man like it was ritual we

899
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: had if you killed a deer in the morning, in

900
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: late morning, they would fry the deer in a pan

901
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: with onions and you would catch up. My old man

902
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,439
Speaker 1: wouldn't let us put catch up on dear mct Norman.

903
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: He'd get really mad if you put catch up on

904
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 1: dear meat. But he'd let you put catch up on

905
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: the heart meat. Yeah, he'd be like consulted, he'd act

906
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: insulted if you put ketch up on dear meat. Do

907
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: you think that, even at that young age, was that

908
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: a different thing, eating something that you pull the trigger on.

909
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 1: I thought was that even Oh yeah, I thought different.

910
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: But you got to realize, man, I like at that

911
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: age and in that time, all I like, I wanted

912
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: to be like I wanted to be the mountain man, right,

913
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: So anything anything they had anything to do it like

914
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: fur trapping, eating crazy ship, living off the land, killing

915
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: ship with knives. It's like anything at all that, anything

916
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: like that, that's all I like. That's what I read about,

917
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: thought about did so it would have Yeah, it would

918
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: have resonated with me. And but it was already like

919
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: a thing we did anyway. Like my old man, this

920
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: is no joke. My old man would go check other

921
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: guys as gut piles to get the hearts. If he

922
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: heard about a guy getting a deer and got a

923
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: deer out in whatever field, he would go out there

924
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: and check and get the heart and deliver out of Yeah.

925
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: It was a big he made a big point out

926
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, And I came up in a much

927
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: more casual deer hunting culture, like we hunted probably really

928
00:49:55,239 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: two days maybe three in Wisconsin, two three in Mission again.

929
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: Once I was old enough to start getting serious about

930
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: bow hunt. I had started putting more time when I

931
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: was about probably sixteens. I think I was driving my

932
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: own car at that point. But yeah, the whole eating

933
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: the animal, um, we just had the In Wisconsin, the

934
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: tradition was that on Saturday night, we just have a

935
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: It's basically like a sauce that we made with mushrooms,

936
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: kind of like a hunter's gravy, and we I mean,

937
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: sure Lovin got made it, but I'm sure that many

938
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: cultures make this similar sauce. Definitely a little bit probably

939
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: like a sour cream kind of a base, like a

940
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: wider sauce, but it would have I think heart and

941
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: tender oin in it. You know, we take all the

942
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: tender loins of all the deer that were shot that

943
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: day and take the hearts. It all get chopped up

944
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: and put into it. And I always remember like being like,

945
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 1: what's this piece is gonna be dang it hard again? Oh?

946
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: Good tenderly? You know? Yeah? And uh yes, I don't.

947
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't get real serious about all that

948
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: stuff until I sort of, you know, came of age

949
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: on my own living in Colorado, and I was probably

950
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, and it just happened to be that I

951
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: had like my own elk at home. All of a sudden,

952
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, what do I do? Now? I better

953
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: butcher this thing and just started chopping it up, And

954
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,479
Speaker 1: the next thing you know, I was going down that path.

955
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: You know, that's cool, and here you are for me now,

956
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: of course, the first dear experience is always one their

957
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: first animal, whatever it might be, kind of sticks with you.

958
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: But then for me also when I look back on

959
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: my childhood experiences of the hunter, there's like a moment

960
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: or two that kind of stands out as is I

961
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: don't know, that special moment or experience that I can

962
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: just see and like it has like that kind of

963
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: magical feeling for me. It was I think it was

964
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: like ninety six or nine seven. Um, you guys were

965
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: probably off in college by then or something. I was

966
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: like eight years old, was graduate school, so you really started.

967
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: I started graduate school in I was skipping my senior

968
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: year of high school. So I was seven or eight

969
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: or something like that. And what, Yeah, I was born

970
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: in eighty seven. Huh, how can that be? So this

971
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: is the ninety six or ninety seven somewhere around there,

972
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: and my one of the there's a the youngest guy

973
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: in the camp other than me. It was maybe in

974
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: his mid twenties or something, and I kind of idolized

975
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: him growing up. Him. He was always up a camp

976
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: and he always killed deer. He killed an eight point buck,

977
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: which is the biggest deer I've ever seen up there.

978
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: And so opening morning he killed his eight pointer and

979
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: we put up on the buck pole and there it was.

980
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: That evening my grandpa killed a great big seven point

981
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: or the biggest now, the biggest buck I've ever seen killed.

982
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 1: And that night I remember I heard the gun shot.

983
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: I was sitting with my dad. Every time you heard

984
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: a gun shot. I was like, Dad, do you think

985
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: that was one of the guys from our group? Do

986
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: you think that was one of the guys? And He's like,

987
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: oh no, that was way too far away. Mark, you'll

988
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: know it if you if you almost get knocked out

989
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: of the seat, you'll know it's one of our guys.

990
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: And so finally late that night, boom, I jolted away because,

991
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, was that one of our guys? And yeah,

992
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: that was one of our guys. So Grandpa ended up

993
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: shooting this deer, and I remember we all came back

994
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: to the cabin. We had this little fourty acre piece

995
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: up in northern Michigan, this little one room log cabin

996
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: that my grandpa had bought way back in the day.

997
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 1: And so we all are in this one cabin. We

998
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: no power, no water, no anything, just some kerosene lanterns

999
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: and stuff. And we're in there waiting for Grandpa to

1000
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 1: get back, waiting for Grandpa to get back, and everyone

1001
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: else had come into camp, and it's only forty acres,

1002
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: so I just go over and see what he's doing.

1003
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's just what we did. You just

1004
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: hang out of camp and then everyone everyone arrived. So

1005
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 1: he finally arrived and waited for one more person and

1006
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: getting and I just remember everyone let let the lanterns.

1007
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: So we all had our little kerosene coleman lanterns, and

1008
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: then we walked back to word GP. Call my grandpa

1009
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: g p Um. You know, I never knew he didn't

1010
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: like the idea of being called Grandpa. I think we

1011
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: were just talking kind of psychoanalyzing if he didn't like

1012
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: the idea of like being old gramp, being gramp and signified.

1013
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: So it was either for Grandpa or his His middle

1014
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: name was Paul, and his first name was Gerald, so

1015
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: it could have been Gerald Paul g P. Oh, that's

1016
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: definitely what it was. I don't know I the grandpa,

1017
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: though I always thought could be possible either way. G

1018
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: P finally got back and we were all there, and

1019
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: we got our Colman lanterns, and we've walked across and

1020
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: it was one of those days where the snow had

1021
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 1: started falling right during that evening hunt, and so by

1022
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: the time we started walking out, everything was codd in snow,

1023
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: so it was like a white landscape, just the the

1024
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 1: yellow glow then of the lanterns. And we all walked

1025
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: out and there's this one creek that runs to the

1026
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: property and we come to the edge of the creek

1027
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: and I just remember GP lifting the lantern and he

1028
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: goes there he is, and then you could just see

1029
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: the light and then it sounds like one of those

1030
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: Christmas cards you buy a capella. There's a picture that

1031
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: documents this moment now where you can just see this

1032
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 1: the most beautiful deer you ever saw, laying in this

1033
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: fresh blanket of snow, you know, landside have to rack

1034
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: up and I'm the seven or eight boy surrounded by

1035
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: these men the guys. I've idolized my whole life, and

1036
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: I'm if I remember, this is definitely the first like

1037
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: track job I've been on like this track quote unquote

1038
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: track job. Um, And here I am with the guys,

1039
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: and there's this big buck that my grap got and

1040
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: so there he is, and I just remember seeing him,

1041
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: and it just I will never forget that moment, seeing

1042
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: this deer and this whole I can see the whole thing,

1043
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: can feel it now. And then that whole night and

1044
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: the next two and a half days of camp, whenever

1045
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: we weren't actually hunting, the guys will be inside eating dinner,

1046
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: eating launch or taking naps. I would just go stand

1047
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: at the buck pole and look at these two deer

1048
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: hanging there and just walk circles around them and touch

1049
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: them and look at them and think about them. And

1050
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: so that whole moment just sticks to me forever. You're

1051
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: wired to hunt, man, I was wired to hunt. Um.

1052
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: Do you have any moment like that? Yeah, anything that

1053
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: stands out? Um, there's probably a few, but yeah, I

1054
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: think that there was sort of like a change over

1055
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: when I probably just decided that I was going to

1056
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: be more serious about hunting. Maybe than he and my

1057
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: dad was a pretty serious bow hunter when I was

1058
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: getting into into high school years um, and he was.

1059
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 1: He got me into it. But when I just made

1060
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: the decision myself that I was gonna also be a

1061
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: bow hunter. So, like I said, I think I had

1062
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: a driver's license. I was driving, and uh, I remember

1063
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: being the lap being camp hiking in I think I

1064
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: actually packed in a decoy on this hunt. And I

1065
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: had chosen my own stand site for the first time

1066
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: that fall, and it was a bit in spot, like

1067
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: a like a like an old uh you know, roadbed

1068
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: between two swamps, and there was kind of two hills,

1069
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: you know, opposite corners of the two swamps. It ended

1070
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: up not being a good spot later, I learned because

1071
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: of the way the thermals would roll off the hills

1072
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: and just always be criss crossing whatever. And I think

1073
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: my spread, yeah, my sent was go in every direction,

1074
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: but I can't remember, maybe I didn't that time. But anyways,

1075
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: the first time that like my own stand, I picked it,

1076
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: like I knew there was deer trails, and all of

1077
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: a sudden, there's a buck underneath my stand and that

1078
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: stands out. It's just sort of like a like a

1079
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: moment where like, all right, I did it. Yeah, Like

1080
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: here I am, like I picked my own spot and

1081
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: there's a buck standing underneath me. Did you shoot? No? No,

1082
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: he got like I don't even know if I came

1083
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: to full he uh, but he sent something and basically

1084
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: just backed out, you know, didn't spook, spook, but didn't

1085
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: continue down his path. But it was like the first

1086
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: time that we're just like it seemed like it had clicked,

1087
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: even though it didn't kill him. It's just like, okay,

1088
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: like I did everything right to get to that point.

1089
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll see this again figuring it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1090
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: that's a good feeling. Yeah for sure. So I think, yeah,

1091
00:57:52,880 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: that stands out. I'm sure I'll think of others. But Steve, yeah, man,

1092
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: being here, you know, being in Michigan, I definitely think

1093
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: of some like like like I remember like just like

1094
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: it's sort of like moments where things have like this

1095
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:18,439
Speaker 1: kind of like Crystaline clarity. You know. Remember later later

1096
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: in life, probably around time like I got out of

1097
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: I got a high school, went into community college for

1098
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: a couple of years, and um took all night classes,

1099
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, so I could trapp during the day I

1100
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: was trying to be a professional trapper and uh like

1101
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: around that time, so it's been around ninety three, being

1102
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: up in the up and staying on some bank above

1103
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: a river. I remember watching these river otters down in

1104
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: the down the river, diving down and coming up with

1105
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: yellow perch in space, the kind of surprised that there's

1106
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,919
Speaker 1: the yellow perch down there were coming up these yellow

1107
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: perch and just crunching them so loud. We were like

1108
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: quite a ways a way that you could just hear

1109
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: the crunching up those perch. And I remember like something

1110
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: about it like spoke to me in some way man like,

1111
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: like I always remember that moment. There's something about they

1112
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: just seem like like otters. I've always had like a

1113
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: real affinity for otters, and um, yeah, like that moment

1114
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: in some sort of way that meant something about being outside, right,

1115
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: the things you'd see outside that were like these kind

1116
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: of like special seeing things outside moments and only sticks

1117
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: in my head. In that same period, is there we

1118
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: used to go down to the mouth of the Pendles

1119
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: river it flows out in the lakes period. We go

1120
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: out to the mouth of the Pendles and and uh,

1121
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: surf cast for steel ahead we get them and they

1122
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: we get him in the fall small ones. Um yeah,

1123
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: and it's funny. I remember one time sitting there with

1124
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: my brothers and something like my friend Eric Kern who

1125
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: later died later and um my buddy Matt DROs who

1126
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: we grew up around hunting fishing, and my brother mam

1127
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: my brother Dan and sitting there and we were drinking

1128
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: Boone's farm in the sand there, you know, and just

1129
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: having this moment of like, holy shit, how much do

1130
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: I like my friends and like it being the because

1131
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: like these were the people I hung out with outside

1132
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: like out of doors. These are like these are like

1133
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: the guys I hunted and fished with when we were younger,

1134
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: you know, And just having this moment of like the

1135
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: level of relationship, like the sort of relationship that you

1136
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: can sort of build in living life this way. And

1137
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure other people find in other ways, but that's

1138
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: just how we found it. Um. Like that said something

1139
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: to me about the lifestyle of hunting and fishing. Were

1140
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: you hunting without um, like parental guidance and like more

1141
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: with your peers, are on your own by the time

1142
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: you were in your late teens, at what point did

1143
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: you sort of like break away from hunting with, you know,

1144
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: the family group that you grew up with. So it

1145
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: would have been when I started bow hunting as a teenager,

1146
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: so like thirteen years old or fourteen years old or

1147
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 1: whatever that was, Like I started. I grew up hunting

1148
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: on our northern Michigan deer camp and that was the

1149
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: only place we ever hunted, was going up to. We

1150
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: call it Ken Robin was what my grandpa called this place.

1151
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: So that's where I was hunted, where we learned and

1152
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: did all that stuff. And then my family bought a

1153
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,479
Speaker 1: little three and a half acre a lot in southern

1154
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,440
Speaker 1: Michigan and Grand Rapids and built a house on it.

1155
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: And so when we built that, then my dad and

1156
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: I decided to learn how to bow hunt. He had

1157
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,439
Speaker 1: never bow hunted before, and I was twelve or whatever

1158
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: it was, and we'd learned to bow hunt together on

1159
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: our three and a half acres behind the house, and

1160
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:44,959
Speaker 1: so I hunted with him the first year or whatever

1161
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: it was until I legally go on my own, and

1162
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: then I just started trying to figure out on my

1163
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: own after that, Um, I've been doing it kind of

1164
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: ever since. So that was kind of my my path. Yeah,

1165
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: I was kind of as quick as we could. We

1166
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: got off on our own. Kind Of an interesting situation

1167
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: because my family was kind of maybe like what you

1168
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: were saying, you honest, it was like very casual hunting

1169
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: and that like up north, it was kind of a

1170
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: serious thing for the opening day weekend. And I think

1171
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: when you say that, it shouldn't have a negative connotation

1172
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: for anybody that's listening, because all these guys are very

1173
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: serious hunters. But compared to where we are now and

1174
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 1: the people that I hang out with now in the West,

1175
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: it's you know, you look back on that and you go, oh,

1176
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: we only deer hunted for six days out of the year.

1177
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: What's interesting, though, is even though that was the case

1178
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: for you know, my grandpa or my dad or people

1179
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: like that, Um, they would still self identify as a hunter.

1180
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: Like that was like one of their favorite things was hunting,

1181
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 1: Like what do you like to do? I like to

1182
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: hunt fish? But they only actually hunt four days a

1183
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: year or something fish more than that, but still, I

1184
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: mean not hundreds or anything like that year round. Man. Yeah.

1185
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: But in this case, though, I was like, you know,

1186
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: it was it was like the culture around it, it

1187
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: was experience around is everything that was outside of not

1188
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: just pulling the trigger, but it was everything else entailed

1189
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: and those you know, the social element of it too.

1190
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean I grew up in the

1191
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 1: situation where you went and sit on a sit on

1192
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: a log next to a tree and just wait and

1193
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 1: see what happens, and never never really learned about anything

1194
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: other than don't move fast, don't make loud noises. That

1195
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: was basically the extent of my education and how to hunt,

1196
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: and then from there just kind of figured it out.

1197
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: It's mind boggling how bad we were at deer hunting.

1198
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, um, especially compared to things other things that

1199
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 1: are difficult that we had like learned how to do.

1200
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: We just remained bad at deer hunting because we had

1201
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: we like just the way the old man did it,

1202
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: and it just really retarded our progress. Our progress was

1203
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: putting dumping carrots out in the woods, man picking up

1204
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: dropped apples, going out to apple orchards and picking all

1205
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: the drops up the farm. I wasn't gonna pick and

1206
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: dumbkinoles out of the damn woods, And then going to Grant,

1207
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: Michigan and buying reject carrots missized carrots, go and fill

1208
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: a you could no ship. When I was looking at

1209
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: five bucks, you could fill the back of a pickup

1210
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: with carrots for five dollars. Did you do the sugar

1211
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: beets sometimes too? Area man, it was sure it was

1212
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: carrots and apples. And so we just was like, you know,

1213
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: my dad was like a you know, kind of a woodsman,

1214
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And and like, you know,

1215
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: you wanted to go out and catch a mink man.

1216
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: You're like, you have to know how to read sign right,

1217
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: But for deer hunt, we're just dumb. You go and

1218
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: go to the edge of the field because do you

1219
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 1: seem like being out in fields and find a treat.

1220
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: It looked like a good tree to hang a stand

1221
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: in and dump saging them damn carrots out, or going

1222
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: to woods and five or two trails came to there

1223
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: and dump a sack and them damn carrots out. And

1224
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: so you just didn't learn about deer. You didn't learn

1225
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: about deer. All you learn was like deer light carrots.

1226
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 1: That's the extent of my If it would have been

1227
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: such a favor to me, it would have been such

1228
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 1: a favor to me into my family as hunters. I'm

1229
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: saying it's just as policy for everyone else. I'm saying

1230
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: a favor to me and my family as deer hunters

1231
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: if you wouldn't have been allowed to do that, because

1232
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 1: then you would have had to take that same level

1233
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: of woodsmanship, right that it takes to catch freaking walleye

1234
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: in the wintertime, or it takes to get a mint

1235
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: to step on a one and a quarter inch circle

1236
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 1: to catch it. Um to take that two deer. But

1237
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: we just fell into that trap that lasted consumed a

1238
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: decade of my life ste of stupid bait piles. Man.

1239
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: Now I kind of regret it, you know. So I

1240
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: was on your podcast a few weeks ago and you

1241
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: asked me about what I thought about the food plots

1242
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: versus baiting debate. Are they the same thing? Are they equipped?

1243
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: Why is one more acceptable than one or the other?

1244
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: And I kind of stumbled through my my answer. I

1245
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: wasn't happy with how I answered it in retrospect. But Um,

1246
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: from outside perspective, you guys aren't involved as much in

1247
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: the white tail world now, and I don't think you

1248
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: have any involvement like food plots or habitat management or

1249
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: anything like other than you know, maybe having friends that

1250
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: do and stuff. But from an ounce from your perspective,

1251
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: how would you answer that question, Steve, who was it that? Um? Yeah,

1252
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: I was gonna talk about that guy that said he

1253
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: can't define poorn. He just knows that when he sees it.

1254
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, it feels like it like it feels

1255
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: a little bit different to me. And I think that

1256
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 1: in you know, I've never grown a food plot in

1257
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: my life. Um, I've don't plenty of bait, you know,

1258
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: from the time I was eleven to the time I

1259
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: was nineteen twenty, we're dump bait out in the woods. Um,

1260
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's kind of a different I guess

1261
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: there's sort of like a difference in in perspective and

1262
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: the difference in aesthetics and stuff. With the guys I

1263
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: know that that grow food plots, you know, they seem

1264
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: to have sort of like kind of like a different

1265
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: view of a different landscape view, And so in some way,

1266
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 1: like I weigh that into it a little bit. But yeah,

1267
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: I don't really know, man, I I like I I

1268
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: think of them differently. I think of them differently, But

1269
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:26,959
Speaker 1: when I really buckled down on it, I can't really

1270
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 1: explain why I can't really come up with a reason

1271
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: why I think about them differently when I when I

1272
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: narrow down on it. You know, Um, let's say you

1273
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: like to hunt, you know, let's say you like to

1274
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: hunt black bears, and you realize that in September, black

1275
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: bears will get on blueberries, okay, or get on huckleberries,

1276
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: and you learn to hunt um blueberry huckleberry patches. And

1277
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: when you're up there eating blueberries and huckleberries, you always

1278
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: spit the seeds out and hopes that more blueberries and

1279
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: huckleberries grow up. Right, Let's say that that actually works,

1280
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:10,919
Speaker 1: and you were like to generate some new huckleberry patch,

1281
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: and then later you were to kill a bear on

1282
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: that huckleberry patch. I would view that very differently than

1283
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 1: if I took a barrel of donuts and dumped it there.

1284
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 1: But in growing up in Michigan as white till hunters,

1285
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: when my brothers drew bear tags and you're out hunting

1286
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 1: these swamps in the up, these vast cedar swamps in

1287
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: the up where you can spend a lifetime running around

1288
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 1: out there and not running to a barry. Even there's

1289
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: a lot of bears around it's like a way to

1290
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: get a bear in range where you can see the

1291
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: bear and tell if it's got a cob or not.

1292
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: And so when you drew a bear tag, that seemed

1293
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: like the way to do it. If you didn't have

1294
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,640
Speaker 1: friends that had hounds and you wanted to get a

1295
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,640
Speaker 1: bear during a finite period of time, that was the

1296
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: bear seasons. Is the way we'd go out and start

1297
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,560
Speaker 1: shooting car with our bows and freezing them and and

1298
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,560
Speaker 1: then established some bait stations. If I've imagined if I

1299
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 1: was in that situation right now, it would probably the

1300
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: exact same way that I would go about it. So

1301
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 1: I know that I'm not comming to anything conclusive here,

1302
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 1: but just a different way my view on baiting. I

1303
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: don't care if if you if someone listen, area is

1304
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 1: legal debate and they bait, God bless them, right. But

1305
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: for me, I just look at that. I look at

1306
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: sort of the wasted chances I had to really learn

1307
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: about how dear use the land to learn that, rather

1308
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: than spending time manipulating their patterns, which is counter largely

1309
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: counterproductive anyways, because you put it down changes their patterns around.

1310
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: They become nocturnal, right they walk around the woods looking

1311
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 1: up into the trees. It's just like you kind of

1312
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 1: like change dear around anyways, it's kind of counterproductive. But

1313
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: I just look at and I'm like, man, it would

1314
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: have been really interesting to the amount of time we

1315
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: spent bow hunting deer had been really interesting to just

1316
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,719
Speaker 1: buckle down and learning to damn de you're doing. Because

1317
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 1: now that I understand that stuff better, I review it

1318
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: back in my mind, the places we hunt, and it

1319
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it would have been that hard to

1320
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 1: unravel it. It wouldn't be hard to unravel it at all.

1321
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 1: If I was to go hunt those same places now,

1322
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: even just reviewing my mind, I know how I would

1323
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 1: hunt them. I wouldn't hunt them that way. It's interesting

1324
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: when you talk about, um, what you would have how

1325
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: you would be forced to better understand certain things. And

1326
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: I was, as I was thinking through this question that

1327
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,759
Speaker 1: you asked me in retrospect later on, I was rethinking

1328
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: to myself, like, what are the differences in my own

1329
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 1: you know, more so than the things I mentioned. And

1330
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: one thing that leapt out to me is that I

1331
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: was kind of reflecting on this more is that you know,

1332
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 1: when I go about working on habitat and planning food

1333
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 1: plots are doing something like that. One of the most

1334
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: unique and what I find, um compelling parts of it

1335
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 1: for me is that when I'm doing that, i am

1336
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: I'm forced to learn about and to become connected to

1337
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:09,719
Speaker 1: something that's very different than when I'm hunting in other ways.

1338
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: And by by that, I mean when you have to

1339
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: understand habitat, and when you start making changes to habitat,

1340
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: you need to understand things like the impact of sun

1341
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: and water and rain and soil, and and how these

1342
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: different forage types you know, benefit deer or other wildlife,

1343
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: and what all these different habitat pieces and parts, how

1344
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 1: that fits into this cycle, and how whatever changes we

1345
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: might make might influence things, and what wildlife benefit from

1346
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: And you start learning about all these different things that

1347
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: never would have before. I never would have started to

1348
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: dive into that part of this world. And to me,

1349
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 1: that's been like a really valuable thing to dive into

1350
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: that aspect of very interesting and it connects me again

1351
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: to the resource to the wildlife in a different way.

1352
01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 1: That um that I've found really fulfilling and satisfying. And

1353
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: another piece too, and I've mentioned and you wouldn't get

1354
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 1: that by dumping the pile of carrots. And you wouldn't

1355
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: get that by dumping the carrots, and and and you

1356
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 1: wouldn't You wouldn't get that by just hunting a junction

1357
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: a funnel point either, you know. I mean I find

1358
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 1: a lot of value in getting to hunt all these

1359
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: different types of ways. I enjoy the ability to go

1360
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: on a piece of public land or somewhere where I

1361
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 1: can't change anything at all, because then you need to

1362
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: do nothing but understand how the deer are working the

1363
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: land right now, and how can I use that information

1364
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:24,479
Speaker 1: to be in the right place. Then there's also something

1365
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: really neat and fulfilling about understanding the habitat itself and

1366
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 1: how we can make that better, how we can interact

1367
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: with that landscape. You're not just interacting from like a

1368
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: surface level, but you can actually go deeper and change things.

1369
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 1: And what that what you need to start making those

1370
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: decisions in a smart way, forces you to learn a

1371
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 1: lot to engage You engage with it in a different way.

1372
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, you become kind of an ecologist, you know,

1373
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: or you have to have an ecological understand anything. Yeah,

1374
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: And I could see it if I live. If I

1375
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 1: had some uh, if I own some small chunk of

1376
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: land and you know there was wildlife in the area,

1377
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't getting it out of my property. I could

1378
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 1: tell you that would probably become obsessed about about habitat improvements. Man,

1379
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 1: I know that would happened. And that's another thing I

1380
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 1: feel like so often as a white tailed guy with

1381
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 1: Western hunting friends, I always find myself feeling like I'm

1382
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 1: like defending myself or something, and then I feel like

1383
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: there's a perception sometimes and you guys can tell that

1384
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: this is true or not if you think from from

1385
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 1: your side of this. But I feel like a lot

1386
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: of guys out west the hunt in the mountains and stuff.

1387
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: Look at these white tail guys, is I don't know,

1388
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 1: lazy doing this easy kind of hunting. It's kind of

1389
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that at all, man, I don't. I

1390
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: feel like you guys think we're crazy, Like you guys

1391
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: are playing food plots or you're doing these place like this,

1392
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: like where we're at right now. I come to place

1393
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: like this and I'm like, my god, Like the level

1394
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 1: of bio diversity, Yeah, one of the bio diversity is

1395
01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: is phenomenal and then the pounds of life per unit

1396
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:10,839
Speaker 1: of space is extremely high. It's just rich, rich environment

1397
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: you could have. You can be on a six hundred

1398
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: acre farm in Michigan. There's six hundred acre piece of

1399
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: property in Michigan and know that there are a lot

1400
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: of animals there. Right now. You could sush, you could

1401
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: sqush a pair of bonoculars over six d um six

1402
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: hundred acres of arid grassland and within a couple of

1403
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: minutes say that there's not a thing out there right now.

1404
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 1: It's just different, it's different different. Yeah, it's funny you

1405
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: mentioned next. We talked about that when the drive in.

1406
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: We drove separately today and I was with Garrett and

1407
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 1: uh Andy and uh I was talking about being a

1408
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: little nostalgic about it and comparing it to out West,

1409
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: and yeah, these woods are just so thick with just

1410
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: like you said, just biomass. You know, there's just so

1411
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: much going on here. I love that, you know, I

1412
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: love being in these woods for that reason. Just replete

1413
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: with life. Man, it's amazing. Um. Yeah, I don't know why.

1414
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why I think that. You know, you

1415
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: grow up and everybody people want to hunt out west man.

1416
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's like I think that a lot.

1417
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: I think the guys in Wyoming don't grow up dreaming

1418
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 1: about hunting Michigan. Okay, guys in Michigan, as much as

1419
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: you love it and and and do it, you kind

1420
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,759
Speaker 1: of grow up not you kind of grow up dreaming

1421
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,720
Speaker 1: about also being out west. And and it's this sort

1422
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,000
Speaker 1: of natural draw on this country. I mean, if you look,

1423
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: there's this there's this like this Western motion. It's kind

1424
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:45,839
Speaker 1: of ingrained in US historically, and I think it exists.

1425
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: There's kind of a romance to it, and there's a

1426
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: greater you know, I talked about's a lot of biodiversity here,

1427
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 1: but when it comes to large mammals, there's much like

1428
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: broader suite of large mammals in the West, and people

1429
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: are drawn to that. But I do meet a lot

1430
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: of guys in the mid in the Midwest who sort

1431
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: of have this sense of like like this a little

1432
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: bit of like an inferiority complex or feel that that

1433
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: they're sucking high and titty on the hunting world in

1434
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,280
Speaker 1: some way that I don't see it. But that's coming

1435
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: from me too, from being like a generalist, right, like,

1436
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:21,600
Speaker 1: like I like to hunt whatever. So I'm out and

1437
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: these was I'm like, man, there's tons of squirrels, tons

1438
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 1: of turkeys, tons of deer. Rivers and lakes are full

1439
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 1: of fish. You can fish the big lake, you can

1440
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 1: fish small inland lakes, you can fish streams, you can

1441
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:39,600
Speaker 1: fish rivers um year round sportsman's paradise, right it just in.

1442
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: This is coming from a guy that left Michigan to

1443
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: go move to Montana. But when I'm here, I'm like, man, like,

1444
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 1: if you also put me back here, I would, right,

1445
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 1: I'd be pretty excited. But you wouldn't move back on purpose, right,

1446
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 1: I would not. It's just it's not it's not that

1447
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: ten years ago. But just to just again today on

1448
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,560
Speaker 1: the drive in, I was thinking, like, you know, what

1449
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the end of the world. Not too bad.

1450
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: It's not too bad. My ole man. He's always tell

1451
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: a story about talk about like an optimist, you know,

1452
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:17,000
Speaker 1: and a pessimist. Like he talked about if you had

1453
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: to imagine this big room full of horseship, right, and

1454
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:21,439
Speaker 1: you put a kid there and he just sits there

1455
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: and cries, Okay, when you're putting our kid there and

1456
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,680
Speaker 1: he's just in there, digging, he's like with all this

1457
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:29,759
Speaker 1: horse ship, there's gonna be a pony in here somewhere,

1458
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 1: you know. And so I feel like it's just like

1459
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 1: there's so much like matter of just like perception of

1460
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 1: where you are, you know, and I go like a

1461
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: lot of places that going. I'm like, dude, I can

1462
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: just picture being here and tearing it up. And when

1463
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm in Michigan, I think like this place right right now,

1464
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, my god, if I lived here, I would

1465
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: get after it. Yeah, And I think that's what is

1466
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,879
Speaker 1: more important than anything, is Uh, wherever you find yourself,

1467
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: you still gotta put in the time and effort to

1468
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 1: be you know, everybody can sit around talking about how

1469
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 1: good or bad it is here they're nowhere. But if

1470
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 1: you if you actually hunt six or eight days a year,

1471
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: then who gives a ship? Right? Like, Yeah, you gotta

1472
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,599
Speaker 1: be a guy that puts in the effort. We're talking

1473
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 1: to a guy there Day lives in Missouri, and you know,

1474
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: sports is paradise, just like Michigan lives in Missouri. And

1475
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 1: you talk to that guy, there's no like he's doing everything.

1476
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: He hunts deer, he taunting turkeys, he's bank pulling flatheads,

1477
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 1: just he's keep squirrel dogs. All that guy does is

1478
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 1: hunting fish. There's probably a lot of guys sitting around

1479
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: is moping around like can't afford dude. Right, there's just

1480
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 1: people like that, and there's people that tear it up.

1481
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: And everywhere I go around the country, you know, I

1482
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 1: meet guys like we know a boatload up now, guys

1483
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 1: like Kevin Murphy. Kevin Murphy does not sit around lamenting

1484
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: the location. The guy hunts and fishes NonStop, and he's

1485
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: like one of the better ones out there in every corner,

1486
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: every corner in the country you go, you're gonna find

1487
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,560
Speaker 1: you guys like complain about what it is or or

1488
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 1: the bucks. By me, you aren't as big as the

1489
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 1: bucks in Iowa. Hunting here sucks. And then you're gonna

1490
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: go down and bang on the next door, and it's

1491
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,280
Speaker 1: gonna be some guy out he's got like four kinds

1492
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 1: of boats parked in his driveway. And all the guy

1493
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: does is like in his from his mind, he's like

1494
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 1: living the American dream. It's just an attitude thing that's

1495
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,600
Speaker 1: take advantage of you, gat And I think back to

1496
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,439
Speaker 1: your original questions of like Western guys thinking that you

1497
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: know this white tail thing is a lazy man saying whatever.

1498
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: We hear that, But it's just a very very small

1499
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: little percentage of the overall you know people, it probably

1500
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 1: comes from the hunting media, but if you pulled most

1501
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:58,840
Speaker 1: Western hunters, I don't think that they feel that way

1502
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 1: about white tail dudes. You know, No, I definitely don't

1503
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 1: know what about this. Here's another perception that the Western

1504
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,920
Speaker 1: guys think the white tail guys are nuts. When we're

1505
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: sitting over here and naming the deer. What do you

1506
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:20,639
Speaker 1: think about naming? Dear? Do you think I'm crazy when

1507
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: I had to go telling me that I'm hunting this

1508
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 1: buck named holy Field for four years? Steve's you're pondering,

1509
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 1: so hum? No, we you know, before I think it

1510
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: became a thing, we had named a few. It's a

1511
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: natural thing to do as soon as you've seen an

1512
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 1: animal twice three times. However many times it takes where

1513
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 1: you're like, that's the same one that has that broken

1514
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 1: third on the left side. Uh, that's the big six

1515
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 1: that we saw. What do we have that one time? Oh? Shocks?

1516
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 1: I remember what the name him this bowl was. That

1517
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 1: had something to do with the fence. Because every time

1518
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 1: someone saw him. Someone had seen him and it was

1519
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 1: like a nice six for us, which probably wasn't even threes.

1520
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: But he had just stepped over like a four strand, right,

1521
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 1: Someone had seen him step over a four strand and

1522
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:21,759
Speaker 1: didn't jump. So he was known as like high stepper,

1523
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: high fence or something like that. But he got this

1524
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:26,760
Speaker 1: name and he hung out and you know, in his

1525
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: zone and who he was seen three or four times

1526
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: before someone killed him. But anyways, we were doing that before.

1527
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 1: I kind of like it became a thing where, you know,

1528
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 1: the white tail guys really popularized, and he started seeing

1529
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 1: it in the magazines where you know, the story was

1530
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 1: about how how someone killed old deuce Um. It's hardly

1531
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: it's hardly an Eastern thing. If you read Hunting Full magazine,

1532
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: every every article in there includes the part of the

1533
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: paragraph where they name it, like whatever the hell I

1534
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: had a hunter right one of those Hunting Full stories

1535
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 1: after we killed the ball together in Arizona and that

1536
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:09,759
Speaker 1: bowl was named. He started bugling at three in the afternoon.

1537
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 1: He was dead at six, and he was named in

1538
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:15,200
Speaker 1: those three hours. And I didn't I didn't even know

1539
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 1: until the story came out later. But he had a

1540
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,800
Speaker 1: very like one of the weirdest bugles I've ever heard.

1541
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: Was kind of like growling, but like a digitized growl.

1542
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: It was like a robot bull bugling. And it sounds

1543
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:30,640
Speaker 1: like he almost had like issues with his larynx. It

1544
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: was just kind of like kind of breaking and crackling,

1545
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 1: And so in the story he came out to be

1546
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 1: the I think he was the larynx bowl. One thing

1547
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: that that I think one place that comes from is

1548
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 1: nameing or not naming is um. You like when you

1549
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 1: guys hunt these places out here and you study him

1550
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 1: so carefully and and like are out paying attention all

1551
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: throughout out the year and paying such detailed attention that

1552
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:10,800
Speaker 1: you're watching a buck progressed through the years. Your level

1553
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,640
Speaker 1: you're you're getting a level of familiarity with a particular

1554
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 1: animal that you're not going to achieve if you're kind

1555
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 1: of if you're sort of a traveling like wilderness hunter.

1556
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,799
Speaker 1: You know, like if you in a lot of locations,

1557
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 1: especially if you're always bouncing around here and there and

1558
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: checking out new stuff and going on like expeditions and whatnot. Um,

1559
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,200
Speaker 1: you're often when you get onto an animal, it's like

1560
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 1: probably the first it's gonna be the first time in

1561
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:44,759
Speaker 1: your life you ever laid eyes on it and probably

1562
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:50,120
Speaker 1: the last, so you don't develop that level of familiarity.

1563
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that it probably came

1564
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,479
Speaker 1: out of you know, it probably came out of the

1565
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 1: also the advent of trail cameras and other things where

1566
01:23:57,760 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: people are sort of like looking at it in a

1567
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: different way. But people name. You just kind of name

1568
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,640
Speaker 1: stuff naturally. Anyway, even if you're just sitting up on

1569
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:10,120
Speaker 1: a glass and knob, there's like that one buck over there,

1570
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,360
Speaker 1: or old Sunshine Buck or you know whatever, and you

1571
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 1: might and you might pick it up and use it

1572
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: for a couple of minutes to to describe what's around

1573
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 1: you and to develop a kind of a context of

1574
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 1: whose where. But then when you walk off there, you

1575
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: just forget the names. But imagine that you're gonna spend

1576
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: four years on that glass and knob, the names will

1577
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 1: become very useful. Yeah. I mean, we happened to us

1578
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 1: and we're hunting Cou's dere in Mexico this year. The

1579
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: whole shipload of bucks names. Yeah, I mean, just it

1580
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:43,640
Speaker 1: takes hours because it just becomes a matter of efficiency

1581
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:45,960
Speaker 1: when you're like, let's let's go back to where the

1582
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 1: century buck was. We had the sentry buck, normal buck,

1583
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:56,600
Speaker 1: el Gagante, Dirt's buck, which didn't exist. All kinds of

1584
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: names sounds like normal names, right, but when we didn't

1585
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: has we don't have a naming process which I think

1586
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 1: you guys go through. You think you guys kind of christened.

1587
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: You sort of christened the deer. Like you treat it

1588
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 1: like naming a child. I wouldn't like. I wouldn't like,

1589
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 1: I like, we'll name it your Like imagine that your

1590
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: wife gives birth and not of her vaginaltle canal spills

1591
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:25,560
Speaker 1: this slimy child. I wouldn't look over and be like

1592
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 1: the couch buck, the couch kid, right, or know the

1593
01:25:31,200 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 1: bed the bed sheet kid. But you guys will kind

1594
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 1: of be like, what are we gonna name it? What

1595
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: are we gonna name it? There's some truth to that, Yeah,

1596
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 1: So you treat it more like the birth of a child.

1597
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:42,439
Speaker 1: When we'd be like, you know that buck, you kind

1598
01:25:42,439 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 1: of see the sunshine shining at him in a minute later, like, oh,

1599
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:47,759
Speaker 1: sunshine Buck, he's over chasing the doll all of a sudden.

1600
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: It just but I think it does go back to

1601
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:53,840
Speaker 1: what you're saying before, because whatever we call this deer,

1602
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: you might be referring to that animal for years, four

1603
01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: for months, or whatever it might be. If you hadn't

1604
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: come up with a name, Holy Field, how in the

1605
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:06,639
Speaker 1: world would you ever have managed all the conversations, remember

1606
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 1: that one, it's not practical. Well, I think before then

1607
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,600
Speaker 1: anything came about it was just like, you know the

1608
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: eight point buck that we see on the back forty

1609
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,120
Speaker 1: all the time, and that's hard to talk about. You

1610
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:21,720
Speaker 1: know that one buck that hangs out by the one place. Yeah,

1611
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: well no I think that, but that's how they went by.

1612
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 1: It was probably like the big six, the medium six,

1613
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 1: little six. And then it just came from just saying

1614
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 1: like the number of points on their head, and that

1615
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: evolved into and that still has a common thing today

1616
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. I mean many times that

1617
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:41,679
Speaker 1: still has eighty eight. We weren't good enough then, all

1618
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 1: the years I spent hunting white tails, we weren't good enough,

1619
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: dedicated enough white tail hunters to get into a position

1620
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 1: where we would have even need to have begun naming them.

1621
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:55,559
Speaker 1: When you became aware of that thing, it was because

1622
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: walking through the damn woods towards you. Yeah. Right, that's

1623
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 1: when he became aware. Presence weren't scientific about it. If

1624
01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 1: anything gets a little funny, it's where if so much

1625
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: has gone into it, and you sort of can look

1626
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: at it as like I've almost farmed his deer, Like

1627
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:17,639
Speaker 1: I probably watched him when he was a fawn. I've

1628
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,600
Speaker 1: been feeding him off my food plots or whatever it is.

1629
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 1: Let him grow up. Um, I named him when he

1630
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 1: was young. My plan was to kill him when he

1631
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: was six, and then I did you know, it's agriculture.

1632
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:36,759
Speaker 1: It's a different thing. And I'm not saying you shouldn't

1633
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: get excited about it, and it's great to get excited

1634
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 1: about it, but for me, it just it's not like, So,

1635
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:46,680
Speaker 1: where's the difference though, whether you see that deer for

1636
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 1: the first time at three years old and then shoot

1637
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 1: him at six, or if you saw him as a

1638
01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:55,800
Speaker 1: a year and a half old. If you you're kind

1639
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:58,120
Speaker 1: of if you have like if you have a little chunk,

1640
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:00,519
Speaker 1: if you have a chunk of land and you're able

1641
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:02,599
Speaker 1: to like sort of like limit the comings and goings,

1642
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 1: limit the access on the land, and you grow up

1643
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 1: particular crops and find his deer and you're like feeding

1644
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:13,680
Speaker 1: them different supplements and sort of like taking care of

1645
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,639
Speaker 1: him and cultivating him for this day when he will

1646
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:24,560
Speaker 1: achieve maximum yield and harvest um. It's very similar to

1647
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 1: to my brother raises sheep, my brother raises lambs. It

1648
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 1: winds up seeming more like his raising of lambs for slaughter.

1649
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,800
Speaker 1: It seems more like that than it does hunting. But

1650
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:43,360
Speaker 1: I don't begrudge him the raising of lambs. I think

1651
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:46,560
Speaker 1: it's he's got ten acres of irrigated pasture, why not

1652
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:48,679
Speaker 1: raise some lambs on it? His friends like the meat

1653
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 1: heats deer, notlk, but his buddies right use that. I

1654
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 1: would never be like that's immoral. It's not. It's just different.

1655
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 1: It's different, Yeah, and whatever. Like we're talking about the

1656
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:04,600
Speaker 1: turkey hunt earlier, we're talking about, you know, whether or

1657
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 1: not to use decoys, and you're like, well, why don't

1658
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 1: you just use decoys be instead to make it harder

1659
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: to use the boat. And I'm like, what I explained

1660
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 1: to Mark that I'm very happy with where my bar

1661
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: is set is that if without decoys, just in my

1662
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 1: calls and a shotgun, that like there's like the perfect

1663
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 1: balance of challenge and being defeated and being humbled and

1664
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:29,080
Speaker 1: some success also, and it's like it's a very happy

1665
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: place that I'm at. And maybe in ten years I'll say, well,

1666
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: I am going to go to the boat or go

1667
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: down to a twenty gage or whatever. But that's like

1668
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: a nice place to be. I think, like you're saying,

1669
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 1: like taking the taking the mystery out and controlling the

1670
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 1: situation to the point where you almost know that they're

1671
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 1: gonna be in that field you know so often, Um, yeah,

1672
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:58,600
Speaker 1: it changes it, but you know, nothing is why do

1673
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 1: people care someone for? People think though, like why are

1674
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:06,559
Speaker 1: people why are you sensitive to it? I don't think

1675
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm sensitive. I think it's just an interesting question. No,

1676
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting wrestling. And it's good that we can

1677
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 1: talk about it because I think that there's a way

1678
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: where like, um, so we're sitting around talking about ideas

1679
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:22,360
Speaker 1: around hunting and what we enjoy about hunting and don't

1680
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:25,640
Speaker 1: enjoy about hunting, right, I think that it could be

1681
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:32,160
Speaker 1: that something doesn't appeal to me personally. Okay, it should

1682
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 1: be that you'd be able to share that it doesn't

1683
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 1: appeal to you personally. You explain what, um, what does

1684
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: appeal to you personally, and none of this should be

1685
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:47,320
Speaker 1: taken as a condemnation of of certain practices. Where is

1686
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 1: a wedge being driven? Yeah, it's just like amongst hunters.

1687
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: If we're sitting around talking about how you like your

1688
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 1: steak prepared, right, and I'm talking about how I like

1689
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 1: my steak we're prepared. No one would be like, why

1690
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 1: are you trying to drive a wedge between steak eaters.

1691
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:08,280
Speaker 1: It's like I like grilled, You're like I like suvie

1692
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:10,880
Speaker 1: and then I finished it with a torch, So, oh,

1693
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 1: you see, you're driving a wedge between state consumers. It's like, no,

1694
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 1: we're just talking about the different things that we like

1695
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 1: and enjoy. So in trying to articulate what I like

1696
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: what I see when I look at I just don't

1697
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: want you to take it to be that I'm somehow

1698
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: You know that I'm that I'm taking to be that

1699
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 1: it's somehow anything other than just like what's appealing to me. Um.

1700
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 1: So that's just the thing I noticed, and and and

1701
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: I view two on this step towards the agriculturalization, which

1702
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 1: isn't the word. I don't think the agriculturalization of deer hunting.

1703
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 1: When I get this idea, like taking this step towards

1704
01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:56,720
Speaker 1: the agriculture, the agriculturalization of deer hunting, it comes to

1705
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 1: a point where someone's like, you know what, I'm gonna

1706
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 1: string of fence, right, you can keep marching it down.

1707
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 1: You can keep marching it down into a direction, and

1708
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:17,200
Speaker 1: um uh yeah, it just could march. And it marches

1709
01:32:17,240 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 1: into a place where I think that some people are

1710
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:22,839
Speaker 1: just naturally gonna look and be like, wow, it just stopped.

1711
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 1: At some point. It kind of doesn't seem like hunting anymore.

1712
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,760
Speaker 1: It seems kind of more like and like, like I said,

1713
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 1: it seems more like a gronomy, not a gronomy like

1714
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 1: egg animal husbandry. Maybe it takes out, Yeah, that's probably it.

1715
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 1: It becomes a sort of animal husbandry. And agree with

1716
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 1: you and that, Um, it's neat to be able to

1717
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 1: talk about these different ideas and different perspectives and stuff

1718
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 1: and and look at it as a way of just

1719
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: understanding different ways that we're seeing things versus it being

1720
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:59,760
Speaker 1: adversarial or something like that. I think that's that's It's

1721
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,720
Speaker 1: you said this a while back, But it's refreshing to

1722
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 1: be able to find people where you can't talk about

1723
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: these things and get those different perspectives. And it's funny

1724
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:11,920
Speaker 1: you talk about like the agriculturalization of deer hunting, and

1725
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 1: it's something that when I hear that, it sounds it

1726
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:20,680
Speaker 1: sounds negative, like to me, like thinking if what I'm

1727
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 1: doing is is something like that, that's that feels like

1728
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:26,519
Speaker 1: that feels like it feels like a little sour to me. Um,

1729
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't don't like that. You don't like the way

1730
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 1: I'm describing it. Not that you're describing that, but if

1731
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 1: if if that was just as I think about that

1732
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 1: for myself, I don't like the idea of of agriculturalizing

1733
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 1: my hunting or something. Um. But at the same time,

1734
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:46,160
Speaker 1: like I'm involved in I do some of these things

1735
01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:48,840
Speaker 1: myself and it doesn't feel like that, Like what I'm

1736
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 1: doing doesn't feel like I'm farming wildlife or something. It

1737
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:57,960
Speaker 1: still feels very There's a tremendous amount of work. There's

1738
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 1: a ton of hunting that I fail nine nine point

1739
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:02,240
Speaker 1: nine percent the time. If if what we're talking about,

1740
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:06,719
Speaker 1: you know, killing the sheep, your brother sheep, he's having

1741
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 1: a very different outcome than There's the farthest thing from

1742
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:16,640
Speaker 1: a guarantee with what I'm doing or what other deer

1743
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:19,479
Speaker 1: hunters that I know are doing that are participating in

1744
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 1: some kind of management habitat wise or age structure and

1745
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:25,760
Speaker 1: choosing what kind of deer they're gonna take. But it's

1746
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:29,880
Speaker 1: just different, and it's hard to articulate that or help

1747
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:32,640
Speaker 1: someone understand that unless you are doing it. Because I

1748
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:34,519
Speaker 1: can see from the outside looking in. You see all

1749
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 1: these practices and the way it stuff talked about, and

1750
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:42,680
Speaker 1: it does sound like farming in some ways, but it

1751
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 1: doesn't feel that way from the inside. But I don't

1752
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 1: know how to how to make those two ends meet

1753
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 1: as I'm like thinking through all this, like why. But

1754
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:56,760
Speaker 1: it's an interesting it's an interesting thing to think about,

1755
01:34:57,520 --> 01:34:59,640
Speaker 1: and there's there's so many different angles to think about it.

1756
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:03,560
Speaker 1: So last like like I killed a nice buck in

1757
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,759
Speaker 1: Colorado last year, and we had gone up in the area,

1758
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:08,599
Speaker 1: first time we've ever been and stuff into an area,

1759
01:35:09,479 --> 01:35:12,559
Speaker 1: and we were hiking out in the dark and bumped

1760
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:18,280
Speaker 1: a couple of big bucks in the dark dusk. And

1761
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:20,800
Speaker 1: I come back up the next day and not too

1762
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 1: far away from there, I catch one of these bucks

1763
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:29,440
Speaker 1: out in the stage flat and and got him very mysterious.

1764
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:31,720
Speaker 1: Dear to me, I don't know it's past right, just

1765
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: the mysterious. You don't know where it came from out

1766
01:35:33,560 --> 01:35:35,679
Speaker 1: on how long I've been in the area. Now, imagine

1767
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 1: that there had been a guy who had just been

1768
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:42,040
Speaker 1: hunting that buck, and he had studied that buck, and

1769
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 1: he'd been out there observing that buck all the time

1770
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:46,679
Speaker 1: and watched it come up through velvet and knew where

1771
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:48,680
Speaker 1: it had spent it summer, and knew that it had

1772
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 1: moved into this area, and knew when it would come

1773
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 1: out in this stage flat right, and knew that thing

1774
01:35:55,000 --> 01:35:56,639
Speaker 1: in and out and was trying to trying and trying

1775
01:35:56,680 --> 01:36:00,800
Speaker 1: to get it, and I get it. So what's what's

1776
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 1: his perspective on it? Gonna be you ship locked into

1777
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 1: some buck and I did. And he might have been like, an,

1778
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 1: I probably deserved it more when you look at the

1779
01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 1: time I put into that animal, study an animal, And

1780
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:22,320
Speaker 1: I would be if I confront of that person, I'd

1781
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 1: be like, you know what, bro, It's true, It's true

1782
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:27,599
Speaker 1: you deserve that buck more than I did. I got him.

1783
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 1: I ship locked into him, right, But you sort of

1784
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:34,240
Speaker 1: like the effort and all that. So I think it's

1785
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:38,759
Speaker 1: always it always like the quality of a hunt always

1786
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 1: remains in the eye of the beholder. And the one

1787
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:48,400
Speaker 1: place I think the hunters go that verges into the

1788
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:52,040
Speaker 1: into the unethical, or the verges into the I don't

1789
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:54,040
Speaker 1: want to use the word unethical, that just verges into

1790
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:59,320
Speaker 1: bullshit territory is when you do something and you feel

1791
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:02,599
Speaker 1: the need to con seal the reality of what happened.

1792
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 1: Guys that hunt high wire never put that fence in

1793
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 1: the photo. Yeah, People that shoot stuff with ear tags

1794
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:15,800
Speaker 1: take the ear tags out before they take the photo.

1795
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:23,240
Speaker 1: So that's like, so, what are you embarrassed about? What

1796
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: is it that you wish this looked like because you

1797
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:30,160
Speaker 1: wish it was something other than it is. When you

1798
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:32,800
Speaker 1: get to that point where you wish it had been

1799
01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 1: other than it was, I think then you've trailed into

1800
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 1: stuff that's beyond just personal perception and beyond these like

1801
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 1: subjective ideas of what's right and what's wrong. At that point,

1802
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 1: you've become like where you're lying to yourself and you're

1803
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:52,760
Speaker 1: lying to others. If you cultivate a piece, if you

1804
01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:55,280
Speaker 1: buy a piece of property, and they means ship for

1805
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:58,439
Speaker 1: animals on there, because it's just like piss poor habitat,

1806
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 1: and you build it up and make the desert blooms,

1807
01:38:02,360 --> 01:38:05,360
Speaker 1: so to speak, and you do things and you and

1808
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 1: you do habitat improvements and put in some dead falls

1809
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:11,120
Speaker 1: and tops some trees and start planting some crops and

1810
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:14,439
Speaker 1: start thinking about connectivity between different properties, and all of

1811
01:38:14,520 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 1: a sudden you create like this little wildlife mecca and

1812
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:20,880
Speaker 1: it's benefiting everything from bucks down to chickeneas. And all

1813
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:23,719
Speaker 1: of a sudden you got moths and butterflies hanging around

1814
01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 1: that you've never seen before. And you go outside and

1815
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 1: you did some water, and you hear frogs you never

1816
01:38:28,040 --> 01:38:31,680
Speaker 1: heard before, and you wind up shooting some tank or buck. Right,

1817
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 1: that dude gonna be so proud of. What are you accomplished?

1818
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 1: Who gives a ship? If someone else looks at and

1819
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:45,200
Speaker 1: they think that there's like they don't know the full story. Now,

1820
01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 1: if that guy like bought a little area and put

1821
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:49,200
Speaker 1: a fence there and went and bought a deer from

1822
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 1: a guy down the road and then pumped it all

1823
01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 1: up full of medications and artificial feeds and shot and

1824
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:56,679
Speaker 1: then drug it out of there and took a picture

1825
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,800
Speaker 1: of it somewhere else it's just different and everybody knows it.

1826
01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:02,680
Speaker 1: And I think something that comes into play here too

1827
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 1: is traditional use and not looking at it like over

1828
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, a hundred years, but just the stuff that

1829
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 1: we grew up with in our lifetimes. Like you did

1830
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:14,720
Speaker 1: the debate thing, Uh, we didn't. I didn't do it

1831
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:19,280
Speaker 1: at all. Never, I've never done it. I think one time.

1832
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 1: I think one time my dad sometimes and it was

1833
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:28,599
Speaker 1: a legal bait state. Yeah, one time my dad showed

1834
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:30,120
Speaker 1: up with these, like I think it was like a

1835
01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:33,760
Speaker 1: full on incent. It was like one of those I

1836
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:35,720
Speaker 1: don't know if the buck bomb thing ever took off.

1837
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:37,920
Speaker 1: It was some variation of that, but literally, like an

1838
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:40,160
Speaker 1: incent you're supposed to dig a little hole out, put

1839
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:41,960
Speaker 1: it in there and light it and you know it's

1840
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 1: gonna attract beer. Like like I got sense yeah, um yeah,

1841
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 1: I was trying to find the singing of the version

1842
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 1: of um. But yeah, Like, so you've grown up in

1843
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:05,280
Speaker 1: a world where like food plots and stuff and your

1844
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:07,760
Speaker 1: career of white tails it's like just been a part

1845
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:09,800
Speaker 1: of it, right, so you're just immersed in it, and

1846
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:11,640
Speaker 1: it's like you're like, yeah, man, it's like what we

1847
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 1: do and it totally feels normal, you know. And but

1848
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 1: again we didn't do that either. But again, for most

1849
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:19,960
Speaker 1: of my white tail life, I hunted probably six days

1850
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:22,240
Speaker 1: of years for white tail. Right at the end before

1851
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 1: I left to Colorado, might have gotten up to a

1852
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 1: dozen or fifteen. Um, But like, can you still bait

1853
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 1: in Michigan? You can bait was much more regulated. It's

1854
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:35,920
Speaker 1: the type of fifteenth through the end of the year,

1855
01:40:36,080 --> 01:40:39,280
Speaker 1: and you can't put the whole Can you run like

1856
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:43,040
Speaker 1: the big feeders that you see in Texas? Not I

1857
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 1: don't think you can put as much as they put

1858
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:46,120
Speaker 1: out it. You've got like a like a one gallon

1859
01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:48,240
Speaker 1: for five gallon bucket wherever it is that you can

1860
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:50,519
Speaker 1: put out at a given time. Got it? Got it?

1861
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:55,680
Speaker 1: But like, do you you don't go that down that road? Well,

1862
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:57,800
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't bait, you don't I don't personally, Yeah,

1863
01:40:57,800 --> 01:41:00,479
Speaker 1: you don't personally bait at all. Right, but again, you

1864
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:02,479
Speaker 1: know down in Texas is like that's what they do.

1865
01:41:03,680 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 1: It's legal whatever you want to do. Yeah, can I

1866
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:08,800
Speaker 1: tell you another moment or do you ask about revelatory moments? Yeah?

1867
01:41:09,240 --> 01:41:12,800
Speaker 1: You could hunt, so you you you know, we'd hunt

1868
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:15,560
Speaker 1: deer in the bow from October one until you know,

1869
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:18,519
Speaker 1: then rifle seem to be November and you hunt guns

1870
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 1: for ten days and then you have this window of

1871
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:24,040
Speaker 1: the late season archery. And I remember being out there.

1872
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:27,000
Speaker 1: It was a year that they couldn't get the corn

1873
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 1: out because everything was too wet. Remember sitting up on

1874
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 1: a corn field and their lot property, and you finally

1875
01:41:34,479 --> 01:41:39,920
Speaker 1: the ground froze and he went out like this guy

1876
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 1: went out in the frozen ground and picked a bunch

1877
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:43,240
Speaker 1: of corn. And this is a spot where if you

1878
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:46,559
Speaker 1: saw two deer, it was a good night. And remember

1879
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 1: one night he picked this corn. As a couple of

1880
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:53,320
Speaker 1: nights later and I counted ninety deer one night. Wow.

1881
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:59,040
Speaker 1: And I remember that opening up the mystery of like

1882
01:41:59,160 --> 01:42:02,040
Speaker 1: again you could look at me like it's an artificial crop,

1883
01:42:02,240 --> 01:42:06,160
Speaker 1: right whatever, But to look and be to see that

1884
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:16,519
Speaker 1: level of response two a landscape change, and that being

1885
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 1: how in the world did they know? How did they know?

1886
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:28,760
Speaker 1: Like how did words spread? Right? So in that way, Um, yeah,

1887
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,040
Speaker 1: it was like one of those just like it opens

1888
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:36,479
Speaker 1: you up to some level of bafflement, you know, um,

1889
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 1: And I think like like invite a sort of inviting

1890
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: those moments of discovery. However they occur. Being like open

1891
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:47,600
Speaker 1: to those moments of discovering and analyzing what's going on

1892
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:51,120
Speaker 1: has kind of a value, you know, like those moments

1893
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 1: where like something happened, you can't figure it out. And

1894
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:57,479
Speaker 1: I feel like those types of moments if you're open

1895
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:01,880
Speaker 1: to them and like searching for them or putting yourself

1896
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:04,760
Speaker 1: in a position to accept them, those kinds of things

1897
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,920
Speaker 1: can occur no matter how you're hunting. It could be

1898
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:12,320
Speaker 1: in the find new place, hunting for the first time

1899
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:14,760
Speaker 1: and you get this mystery, you get this surprise, or

1900
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:17,120
Speaker 1: these things happen in the moment, or it could happen

1901
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:19,519
Speaker 1: where you work one little piece of ground for years

1902
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:21,840
Speaker 1: and you get to learn it. The depth of those

1903
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:25,519
Speaker 1: moments are different, maybe the scale of those moments are different, maybe,

1904
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:30,559
Speaker 1: but you can have these really powerful, interesting, compelling, revelatory moments.

1905
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:34,040
Speaker 1: I think, whether it's food plots and hanging out in

1906
01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 1: one spot or brand new public land spots, and I

1907
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:39,040
Speaker 1: I've been I just count myself fortunate that I've been

1908
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: able to experience both. And I find both of those

1909
01:43:42,320 --> 01:43:46,160
Speaker 1: really interesting and exciting and satisfying, but just in very

1910
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:49,360
Speaker 1: different ways. But I think that kind of comes back

1911
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:51,280
Speaker 1: to everything we've talked about here. There's lots of different

1912
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 1: ways to to to get some form of enjoyment or

1913
01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:57,559
Speaker 1: satisfaction out of a hunter that that journey, and um,

1914
01:43:58,240 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 1: it's neat to be able to see all those different

1915
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:04,720
Speaker 1: facets of it. So for you guys, if you were

1916
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:06,759
Speaker 1: to go back, and I know you do. You dabble

1917
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of white tail hunting back, you know,

1918
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:10,680
Speaker 1: Wisconsin ever once a while and stuff like that. But

1919
01:44:10,760 --> 01:44:13,080
Speaker 1: what would it take to get you guys back to

1920
01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:15,439
Speaker 1: your white tail roots? What would be that dream white

1921
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:17,680
Speaker 1: tail hunt that for you would make it? Like now,

1922
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 1: that would be really cool. I want to go do that.

1923
01:44:22,640 --> 01:44:26,400
Speaker 1: Why hunted western white tails hard for three or four

1924
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:31,559
Speaker 1: years in Nebraska, Um, but pretty different than hunting white

1925
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:34,719
Speaker 1: tails here. You know again you're glassing them up. Didn't

1926
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,000
Speaker 1: you just get a white tail last year? No? But

1927
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:38,760
Speaker 1: I went on a white tail hunt. I went back

1928
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:42,479
Speaker 1: to our stopping grounds in Wisconsin, your little local hidie hole.

1929
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:46,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I killed a dough you're right. And in

1930
01:44:46,120 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 1: the year before I killed a little buck there. But yeah,

1931
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:54,080
Speaker 1: that was very much like a grocery run. You know,

1932
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:57,800
Speaker 1: I'm hunting like a I'm hunting where I can see

1933
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:01,160
Speaker 1: the guy's house, you know, Like I when I sit

1934
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:03,840
Speaker 1: against the tree, I sit so that I'm facing away

1935
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:05,439
Speaker 1: from the house, so I'm not going to shoot in

1936
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:08,720
Speaker 1: that direction kind of a thing. And there's just a

1937
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:12,000
Speaker 1: lot of deer there, and it's very much like like

1938
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:14,799
Speaker 1: a nice way to kind of top off the freezer,

1939
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:19,800
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, yeah, no to me that it's

1940
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 1: just like I wasn't for both of those animals. I

1941
01:45:23,320 --> 01:45:26,160
Speaker 1: wasn't really there for like the excitement of the hunt.

1942
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:28,960
Speaker 1: It was kind of like last day of the season.

1943
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 1: I got an unfilled buck tag. That's where I'm going.

1944
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,400
Speaker 1: I'd like to have to meet whatever buck I see.

1945
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:38,280
Speaker 1: I'm shooting. But but what like if you could outline

1946
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:41,040
Speaker 1: your white tail hunt, that would be like really compelling

1947
01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:44,439
Speaker 1: for you. What would that situation be, Oh, I would

1948
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:46,280
Speaker 1: just go right back to the or like the country

1949
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:48,960
Speaker 1: that we get to hunt in Wisconsin is uh, it's

1950
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:51,880
Speaker 1: sweet's very little agg. Was The stuff that my dad

1951
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:54,400
Speaker 1: and his friends own is zero agg. We have some

1952
01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:58,680
Speaker 1: agg on the neighbors, so it's just big woods and uh,

1953
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:02,519
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to read the sign there. You know,

1954
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:04,720
Speaker 1: I've trumped those woods a lot, and I still have

1955
01:46:04,880 --> 01:46:07,960
Speaker 1: like a very just my new understanding of general deer

1956
01:46:08,080 --> 01:46:11,000
Speaker 1: movement on these this chunk of land and it's pretty big.

1957
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:14,720
Speaker 1: It's like acres, you know, pretty sizable chunk of land.

1958
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I had a blast hunt there

1959
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 1: last year. Never saw you know, what i'd call shoot

1960
01:46:22,439 --> 01:46:27,120
Speaker 1: or buck. I don't know if I saw a buck. Um. Yeah,

1961
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:29,439
Speaker 1: I loved it. I had a great time. Like I said,

1962
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:32,680
Speaker 1: I love hanging in these oaks and just the big

1963
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:36,960
Speaker 1: wood forests. It's just you spend enough time in one

1964
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:40,880
Speaker 1: place and the other place gets appealing again. Right Yeah. Yeah.

1965
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:42,240
Speaker 1: For me to be doing the kind of stuff you

1966
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: do during the rut with my bow, sitting up perching

1967
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:49,360
Speaker 1: up in different trees here and there, just watching all

1968
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:53,400
Speaker 1: this stuff, oh yeah, definitely. I remember I hadn't sat

1969
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:55,639
Speaker 1: in tree stay in years. At one point in time,

1970
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:57,280
Speaker 1: I hadn't been in treeing a long time. And then

1971
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:01,080
Speaker 1: sitting up hunting white tails. My brother and I had

1972
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:03,840
Speaker 1: a couple of raccoons fighting the tree next to me

1973
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 1: and just being like, man, I kind of like the

1974
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:10,680
Speaker 1: level of detail you see when you're just sitting you

1975
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:12,160
Speaker 1: walk out in the woods man you think there's nothing

1976
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:14,120
Speaker 1: around you sit there fifteen minutes. I'll see that's just

1977
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:19,240
Speaker 1: like ten squirrels hanging around that passing through. They would

1978
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:21,640
Speaker 1: have been too paranoid, but then they forget about you

1979
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:26,760
Speaker 1: or having birds land on your arrow. Somebod I was

1980
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:28,439
Speaker 1: just talking to you, had I will try to land

1981
01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:32,840
Speaker 1: on him? Wow? My brother? Yeah, my brother was telling

1982
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:34,640
Speaker 1: me that he had a great horned I will come

1983
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:38,639
Speaker 1: and try to land on him. Scared the ship? Wasn't

1984
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 1: that math that I just happened to? I think it

1985
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:44,560
Speaker 1: was fell out of a tree. So uh yeah, I

1986
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:46,320
Speaker 1: would want to come and do not for all that,

1987
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that would all be like extras, but to

1988
01:47:49,360 --> 01:47:52,960
Speaker 1: come and and um just do another like with someone

1989
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:56,479
Speaker 1: that really knows it inside out, like you, to come

1990
01:47:56,520 --> 01:47:58,320
Speaker 1: and have you like putting me up in a good

1991
01:47:58,360 --> 01:48:00,560
Speaker 1: tree with my bow doing rut and just kind of

1992
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 1: watch and all that taking place. I think it be

1993
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:05,719
Speaker 1: a blast, man. We should do it. Not I'm planning

1994
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:11,040
Speaker 1: on doing it all right, dude, It's like it's fascinating

1995
01:48:11,080 --> 01:48:14,280
Speaker 1: to me. It is, you know, another cool thing that

1996
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:15,920
Speaker 1: I just thought. And this is something I thought about

1997
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:19,080
Speaker 1: in the past when um talking to my friends who

1998
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:21,400
Speaker 1: who who never hunted out west or someone who has

1999
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:24,479
Speaker 1: hunted out west but never hunted back east. When you're

2000
01:48:24,479 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 1: talking about stand hunting versus like you know, chasing down

2001
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:32,120
Speaker 1: ugling elk or something, and with what I find so

2002
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 1: cool about chasing down elk out west is that when

2003
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:38,559
Speaker 1: you are fully there's something going on in the moment,

2004
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:42,439
Speaker 1: so fully engaging that you can't think about anything else.

2005
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 1: Nothing else is on your mind except for the next step.

2006
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:47,639
Speaker 1: What's the wind doing right now? Where am I going next?

2007
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:50,880
Speaker 1: Where is it going? You are fully two thousand percent

2008
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:54,559
Speaker 1: in this electric moment. I can't think about anything else.

2009
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:56,920
Speaker 1: Nothing else in the world is on your mind. And

2010
01:48:57,080 --> 01:48:59,400
Speaker 1: that's a really cool thing to have. Like experiences like

2011
01:48:59,479 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: that the fully engage you to the highest possible amount,

2012
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:05,760
Speaker 1: that's a really cool thing. When you're deer hunting and

2013
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:09,599
Speaker 1: you're sitting a tree stand for fourteen hours straight, there's

2014
01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:14,840
Speaker 1: nothing you are relieved of anything else, and it opens

2015
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:17,680
Speaker 1: your mind to everything now. So when else in your

2016
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:21,960
Speaker 1: life do you have this quiet space in your mind

2017
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:25,840
Speaker 1: to reflect on stuff, to think about things more than

2018
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:28,439
Speaker 1: just what you're doing in the next ten seconds or

2019
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:30,719
Speaker 1: what job do I wanted to do? Or what blah blah.

2020
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:33,280
Speaker 1: You can just sit and you can breathe and you

2021
01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:38,920
Speaker 1: can just Yeah. I used to bring very small paperbacks.

2022
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:44,559
Speaker 1: I have my have my coat kind of open where

2023
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:46,960
Speaker 1: I could just read it like like like a poker

2024
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:52,000
Speaker 1: player holding and could like stuff that paperback through an

2025
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:54,639
Speaker 1: open button or two. You gotta be careful when you're

2026
01:49:54,640 --> 01:49:59,080
Speaker 1: reading in the tree stands to I'm sure, man. But

2027
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:01,800
Speaker 1: up until the magic moment though, you know, because I

2028
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:05,439
Speaker 1: couldn't deal with the I couldn't deal with the there's

2029
01:50:05,439 --> 01:50:08,920
Speaker 1: still quiet nothing, the quiet noise of your own brain.

2030
01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:11,559
Speaker 1: Man like that. I feel like that's an important rare

2031
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:14,479
Speaker 1: thing these days, you know. Yeah, I feel like in

2032
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:17,800
Speaker 1: mountain hunting, it's the in and out, like when you

2033
01:50:17,880 --> 01:50:20,439
Speaker 1: got a pound, you know, three or four miles in

2034
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:23,759
Speaker 1: the dark either direction. Your brain gets to a similar

2035
01:50:23,840 --> 01:50:26,400
Speaker 1: place where you just you just kind of have to

2036
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:28,080
Speaker 1: just put one ft in front of the other and

2037
01:50:28,240 --> 01:50:31,639
Speaker 1: you're thinking about, you know, all kinds of things. Yeah,

2038
01:50:32,640 --> 01:50:34,720
Speaker 1: it's cool to have those two different opportunities, Like, those

2039
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:36,680
Speaker 1: two different things are really compelling in their own way,

2040
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:39,800
Speaker 1: and that's what makes all this stuff pretty cool. So

2041
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,880
Speaker 1: driving anything, driving a driving age, I don't want to

2042
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:47,920
Speaker 1: do that. Any final any any final things in the

2043
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:49,840
Speaker 1: white tailed world you guys want to count on before

2044
01:50:49,920 --> 01:50:54,200
Speaker 1: we shut this down and go think about turkeys? You

2045
01:50:54,280 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 1: any anything final white tail thoughts or other was anything

2046
01:51:01,080 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 1: we need to touch on before we hit this act? No,

2047
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: tidn't hit the sack mark. He kept me up too late,

2048
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:11,880
Speaker 1: and then I apologize. No, man, I got nothing to add.

2049
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:18,680
Speaker 1: It's like I grew up hunting them and remain interested

2050
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: in him, along with a whole ton of their animals

2051
01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 1: that I'm interested in. Well, thanks for walking down the

2052
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:28,000
Speaker 1: white tail path for at least one more night, all right,

2053
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,280
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna take you up on the hunting thing.

2054
01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 1: But now that you taught me the word gar whole, damn,

2055
01:51:36,040 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be very sensitive. You've been being place in

2056
01:51:38,360 --> 01:51:42,360
Speaker 1: the gar hole. I didn't teach you garl you never

2057
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:48,040
Speaker 1: I've never heard that, really, never heard sucking old. No,

2058
01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 1: I would think that this is a good place to

2059
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:52,240
Speaker 1: go bow fishing for garf someone that they're going to

2060
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:55,920
Speaker 1: the girl like sweet, let's go hold. I feel like

2061
01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:57,840
Speaker 1: we need to touch on it, really, quid If anyone

2062
01:51:57,960 --> 01:52:01,040
Speaker 1: doesn't know if you're getting gar hold that's like you're

2063
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:03,040
Speaker 1: hunting with a buddy or you're hunting with someone else

2064
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:04,600
Speaker 1: and they're they're gonna say, oh, well, you should go

2065
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:07,000
Speaker 1: hunting this spot. They send you to a spot to hunt,

2066
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:09,320
Speaker 1: and you get done and you hunt it all day

2067
01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:10,960
Speaker 1: and you didn't see anything, or you get there and

2068
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:13,679
Speaker 1: you're like, oh gosh, this is horrible. There's I'm sitting

2069
01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:15,519
Speaker 1: next to the highway or a parking lot of the

2070
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:18,600
Speaker 1: tree stand, the seats missing on the tree stand, and

2071
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:21,240
Speaker 1: you're just in a wide open field and there's nothing

2072
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:23,800
Speaker 1: all that give this to you on purpose because he

2073
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:25,880
Speaker 1: took this good spot. Yeah, you would, you would say,

2074
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:30,439
Speaker 1: at least you would assume hold me, but what really?

2075
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,760
Speaker 1: But I think it's important to designate, like if he

2076
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:36,320
Speaker 1: don't like could couldn't? Can you be guard hole? Kind

2077
01:52:36,360 --> 01:52:40,719
Speaker 1: of by by accident, by coincidence or is it always

2078
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:44,040
Speaker 1: like you're getting hosts? I think is the business well

2079
01:52:44,120 --> 01:52:47,479
Speaker 1: knows no one he's been garbling. Yes, it would be

2080
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:50,760
Speaker 1: with intent, It would you A gar holing would be

2081
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 1: if it was done with intent, Because if a guy

2082
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:54,800
Speaker 1: said to you, hey, man, you're gonna get up there

2083
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:57,679
Speaker 1: and you're gonna think I goar hold you but really

2084
01:52:57,800 --> 01:53:02,960
Speaker 1: hear me out right then right, you might be like, wow,

2085
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:06,439
Speaker 1: it seems like I feel like you're a you're in

2086
01:53:06,439 --> 01:53:10,000
Speaker 1: a rocky relationship if this is actually going on because

2087
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:15,600
Speaker 1: one of two things he's saying, guides of garhole people. Right, No,

2088
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:18,080
Speaker 1: that's what I was saying, because I have guard hold

2089
01:53:18,200 --> 01:53:23,960
Speaker 1: guys again, because here's my explanation to one or two things.

2090
01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:27,880
Speaker 1: Either you're an asshole and so you're being guard hold,

2091
01:53:28,720 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 1: or you're an asshole and you're gonna be it, because

2092
01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:33,920
Speaker 1: like you're not gonna I'm never gonna gar hole one

2093
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 1: of you two. It's just like I'll take the guarhole

2094
01:53:37,280 --> 01:53:41,280
Speaker 1: spot and give you guys the br I try to

2095
01:53:41,479 --> 01:53:44,120
Speaker 1: hang out with people that are sort of going through

2096
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:49,120
Speaker 1: life in general that way. Yeah, And so you know,

2097
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:54,519
Speaker 1: it's too short for assholes. So i'd say the time

2098
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:59,599
Speaker 1: that is used, it's used in h ingest, like you're

2099
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:03,240
Speaker 1: giving your buddy a hard time, like nothing happens, you

2100
01:54:03,280 --> 01:54:06,320
Speaker 1: come back, put me in the gar hole. It's that

2101
01:54:06,479 --> 01:54:09,320
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But there are some real instances. I'm

2102
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:12,080
Speaker 1: so glad, like this made my night knowing that I

2103
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:15,680
Speaker 1: introduced that term. Do you guys, Oh yeah, yeah, I'll

2104
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:19,880
Speaker 1: use it, please do and I will take Yeah, I

2105
01:54:20,040 --> 01:54:24,679
Speaker 1: want to put you in to Mondo gar hole. All right, guys,

2106
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:29,120
Speaker 1: thanks for being here and that is it. Quick reminder though,

2107
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:31,559
Speaker 1: to hit us up on itune for a quick rating

2108
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:34,120
Speaker 1: or review if you haven't yet, and then also be

2109
01:54:34,200 --> 01:54:37,240
Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to the Wired Hunt YouTube channel. There's

2110
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: lots to come there soon, so then wrap things up here.

2111
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:43,240
Speaker 1: I guess I'll just finish by thanking our partners at

2112
01:54:43,320 --> 01:54:47,640
Speaker 1: Yedie Cooler's, Matthew's Archery, Maven Optics, Whitetail Properties and hunt

2113
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:51,160
Speaker 1: ter Maps, and of course thank you all for listening.

2114
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:54,800
Speaker 1: As I mentioned earlier, you are part of an amazing community.

2115
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 1: It's been just the joy of my life to serve

2116
01:54:57,560 --> 01:55:01,480
Speaker 1: you and share my stories and experience and lessons learned.

2117
01:55:02,200 --> 01:55:04,160
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see where things go next, so

2118
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:09,280
Speaker 1: thanks again and until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.

2119
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:10,000
Speaker 1: M