1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,480
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

2
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Dorry

3
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: with you. Let me tell you a little bit about

4
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 1: Michael Jouer, Washington, DC based writer, speaker, researcher. His expertise

5
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 1: is the personality development area, bodymind, emotion, spirituality. Is the author,

6
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,759
Speaker 1: with Mark mccozy, MD, PhD, of a couple books, The

7
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: Spiritual Anatomy of Emotion and Your Emotional Type. The latest

8
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 1: book by mister Michael Jouer is Sensitive Soul, The Unseen

9
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,240
Speaker 1: Role of Emotion and Extraordinary States. And Michael, we have

10
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,919
Speaker 1: all gone through some emotional states over the past year,

11
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,360
Speaker 1: haven't we. Oh my gosh, please just getting started. I'm

12
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,640
Speaker 1: not sure I think so. Well. Welcome to the program

13
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 1: and thanks for standing up so late for us. It's

14
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 1: pleasure to be with you. Georgie. How did you get

15
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:56,320
Speaker 1: involved in this area? Well, a completely unlikely way. Looking

16
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: back about twenty five years, I would have never guessed

17
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 1: that I've gotten into searching and writing about the subjects

18
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 1: I have. It really got started when I was in

19
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,039
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen nineties working in the commercial real estate

20
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,480
Speaker 1: industry and researching something called sick building syndrome, which is

21
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 1: primarily office buildings, sometimes residential buildings, where people are in

22
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 1: the buildings they don't feel well, they get kind of

23
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: cold and flu type symptoms, and when they're outside of

24
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,840
Speaker 1: the buildings they feel much better. So the buildings seemed

25
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,960
Speaker 1: to be the culprit. The question is why, And working

26
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 1: with an association of building owners and managers, I was

27
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 1: tasked with working with folks with the US Environment Protection

28
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 1: Agency to develop guidance to prevent sick buildings and keep

29
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 1: them well, and then sort of develop protocols for what

30
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 1: you do if you're a building manager, engineer and there

31
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: is something like this, situation like this, And I started

32
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 1: speaking with a variety of people, obviously the building managers

33
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: and engineers to begin with, but ultimately the building occupants

34
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: and folks who were sidelined because of these symptoms. And

35
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 1: they told me that in many cases they had been

36
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,640
Speaker 1: sensitive to various things in their environment years before, which

37
00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 1: raised the question just what might be going on here?

38
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 1: Is the building ultimately the problem or could it be

39
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 1: an interaction between the building and the person. And I

40
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: became aware as people started to confide in me in

41
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 1: a couple of more esoteric conditions. One is called multiple

42
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 1: chemical sensitivity, where people are highly reactive to things like

43
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: perfumes and colognes and paints and pesticides. So that's you know,

44
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,399
Speaker 1: that was kind of interesting. And then some people told

45
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 1: me about their electrical sensitivity, feeling like they were influenced

46
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,839
Speaker 1: by and influenced electrical appliances, lights, and computers especially. And

47
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 1: then the kicker was that some of these folks, as

48
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 1: I had sort of more ongoing conversations and more ultimately

49
00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 1: confidential the individuals anyway, was the fact that they had

50
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 1: experienced things like apparitions and could see energies around people,

51
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,120
Speaker 1: and that they felt this was a pronounced form of

52
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: sensitivity emotional primarily that they'd had for many years. So

53
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,680
Speaker 1: that sort of piqued a lot of questions, and the

54
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: study and writing I've done ever since really sprang from that.

55
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 1: These buildings that helped create the sick building syndrome were

56
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,520
Speaker 1: like asbestos and chemicals in the building, things like that. Yeah,

57
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: as best as not so much. It's it's really sort

58
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,680
Speaker 1: of mold in buildings is a big trigger as a

59
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 1: big factor. You know, people have mold in their homes

60
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 1: as well. It's it's sort of endemic or can be.

61
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 1: And one thing, George that sort of tipped me off

62
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 1: that this is a sort of interesting path to research

63
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: is that at that same time, my wife and I

64
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,640
Speaker 1: had moved into a new house, which is where I'm

65
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 1: speaking to you from, and we were working. We had

66
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 1: a sort of shared office, and it turned out there

67
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: was mold in that room. Now, my wife has been

68
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,160
Speaker 1: asthmatics since she was born, unfortunately, and she would react

69
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 1: immediately to this. Right, I could be in that room

70
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: simultaneously and just sort of be aware that there's kind

71
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 1: of a musty odor, not be really put off by it.

72
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,280
Speaker 1: And so I had a very clear example of different

73
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: people reacting differently in a room that could be considered sick.

74
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 1: And we obviously had that remedied very quickly. But this

75
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,320
Speaker 1: was happening all at the same time, so it's sort

76
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,920
Speaker 1: of gelled. And then you somehow got into the emotional

77
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,760
Speaker 1: end of all this too, which is amazing. Yeah, I

78
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 1: became convinced, and I'm convinced and written about this extensively,

79
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 1: that sensitivity, when you consider that term, there's a physical

80
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,720
Speaker 1: side to it, where people are allergic in many cases.

81
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,520
Speaker 1: I think migraine is a good example of physical sensitivities,

82
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 1: but simultaneously emotional sensitivities and allergy and migraine are probably

83
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,120
Speaker 1: good examples of that. When people are riled up, when

84
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 1: they are stressed, they're certainly more likely to get colds

85
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 1: or infections. Their allergies kick in. My wife's asthma can

86
00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: be worsened by emotional stress, and migraine is set off

87
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 1: by all kinds of things. Most people think of it

88
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 1: in terms of smells and glare and noise and things

89
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,839
Speaker 1: like that, which is certainly true. But the primary trigger

90
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,160
Speaker 1: for most people is emotion, so it's very difficult to

91
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: separate out emotion from physical prompts, and they sort of

92
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 1: were all wrapped up in one. And that's again what

93
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 1: I've tried to explore quite a bit. How did you

94
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,760
Speaker 1: get to know the poulter Geist investigator William Role? How

95
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,359
Speaker 1: did that happen? That also sprang interestingly enough for my

96
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,840
Speaker 1: work on indoor air quality. I was, again this is

97
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,120
Speaker 1: back in the probably mid to late nineteen nineties, getting

98
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,039
Speaker 1: interested in these subjects, and I've always had an interest

99
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 1: in parapsychology as well. There are some experiences I've had

100
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 1: in my family or my family has had, and I

101
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,600
Speaker 1: think some of this may actually be genetic as well. Anyway,

102
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 1: that was kind of in the back of my mind,

103
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 1: especially when I was talking to people who had been

104
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 1: affected by so called sick buildings or sick building syndrome,

105
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 1: and they told me they had these sort of pre

106
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:24,280
Speaker 1: existing sensitivities and particular proclivities towards paranormal perception. And I

107
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: was speaking at a small conference zone indoor air quality

108
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: in the Atlanta area, and I remembered that Bill Rowle,

109
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 1: who was a renowned and still you know, very noteworthy

110
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,160
Speaker 1: pultgeist investigator, was in the Atlanta region. So I sent

111
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,520
Speaker 1: him a letter, called him up, and he very graciously

112
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,239
Speaker 1: agreed to meet with me, and so we were kicking

113
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 1: these things around, and one thing that struck me, George

114
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 1: at the time, was that Bill Rowle's assistant had all

115
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,600
Speaker 1: the cluster of symptoms and complaints that I had been

116
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,600
Speaker 1: talking with these folks in the sick building context about

117
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 1: the very same one migraine. She was allergic, she saw apparitions,

118
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: she felt vibrations and rooms and so forth. And Bill

119
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 1: told me something that I've never forgotten. He said, if

120
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 1: you go back to the nineteenth century, in the turn

121
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,480
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century when parapsychology was in vogue and

122
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 1: mediums were all the rage, he said, they weren't really

123
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 1: called mediums. They were called sensitives, and they were known

124
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: as sensitives. And so that really put me one hundred

125
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 1: percent on sort of this concept of sensitivity. And Bill

126
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: subsequently suggested, why don't why don't you do a survey

127
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 1: to try to systematize the data that you're getting, the

128
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 1: stories that you're getting from people, change them from anecdotes

129
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 1: into actual data, ask particular questions and see what you

130
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: come up with. And so that led to the publication

131
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: of a survey in the Journal of Society of Psychical Research.

132
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: The group out of the UK and has a various

133
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 1: very illustrious pedigree going back to to the late eighteen

134
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,840
Speaker 1: hundreds William James and I think the Arthur Conan Doyle was,

135
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes was a member and so forth. So I

136
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,360
Speaker 1: was thrilled to get published by them. That was my

137
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: first paper and went through that whole process, and I

138
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 1: believe the findings stand up to this day, and that's

139
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 1: a lot of what I've written about. When you wrote

140
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: the book Sensitive Soul, the new book that's just come out.

141
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 1: Tell me about the title. That's why I find it

142
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 1: to be very clever. But tell me it's meaning right.

143
00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 1: So sensitive refers to the fact that each of us

144
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,080
Speaker 1: is a sensate being. You know, we have to be

145
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 1: sensitive to make sense out of our environment. Our senses

146
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,199
Speaker 1: and an emotions provide a key to that. Emotions tell

147
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 1: us how how we're feeling, you know, how how we

148
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: are in any given environment. Is this relationship right or

149
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 1: wrong for me? So sensitivity is and both physical and

150
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 1: emotional and kind of orients us as as individuals. Soul

151
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,839
Speaker 1: refers to our spiritual capacity, which I also argue is

152
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: very much tied to emotion, to feeling, the feelings we

153
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 1: have for one another, for our pets, for nature, for

154
00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,800
Speaker 1: things that are going on in the world. You mentioned,

155
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, recent events. Everybody gets riled up over those,

156
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,280
Speaker 1: um you know this sort all of this underlies, in

157
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,600
Speaker 1: my opinion, our spirituality. Fellow feeling, the feeling that we

158
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,679
Speaker 1: have for other people in this life. And I think

159
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 1: the deeper our feeling, the deeper our spirituality. So you

160
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,079
Speaker 1: put those two together and that's my concept of sensitive soul.

161
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,480
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by the concept of deja vu, that feeling

162
00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 1: that you know something's going to happen, or you've been

163
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: there before. How does that equate into sensitive soul? Oh,

164
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 1: I have the glimmer of a feeling that you've asked

165
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 1: me this question before, and you've been on before, your

166
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 1: first time hadn't happened. But yeah, deja vu is remarkable

167
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: because so many of us have you know, experienced deja vu,

168
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,560
Speaker 1: and it's quite quite striking. It's a weird feeling. It's

169
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,160
Speaker 1: it's a very weird sensation. It's like you're between this

170
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 1: and that and and it's this faint, you know, sense

171
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,320
Speaker 1: that that I've been here before, this has happened before,

172
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 1: doing some sort of time travel. And there are all

173
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 1: kinds of proposed explanations for it. Interestingly enough, there is

174
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,559
Speaker 1: no single accepted, you know, sort of mainstream explanation of

175
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 1: of of deja vu. But there's um an explanation that

176
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,959
Speaker 1: I particularly have been drawn to and I write about

177
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 1: in the new book, and that is that it very

178
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,960
Speaker 1: well may relate to being in a situation where you're

179
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,680
Speaker 1: you're reminded of something that didn't happen before in your life,

180
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,960
Speaker 1: and there's some queue in the environment that tips you

181
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 1: off to that, and so you start to remember, and

182
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,680
Speaker 1: it's sort of unconscious, and at the same time, there

183
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,319
Speaker 1: was something in that memory that's unpleasant or that you're

184
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: unconscious doesn't want to fully realize and bring into the present,

185
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 1: and so it shuts it off. And I've experienced this

186
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:30,560
Speaker 1: myself in one situation where you reflecting on it, I thought, Oh,

187
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,319
Speaker 1: that's probably what was going on. And I think that

188
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 1: at least it was a satisfying explanation for me. I

189
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,760
Speaker 1: believe it could explain many other maybe not all instance

190
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 1: of deja vu, But I think that the subconscious is

191
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,080
Speaker 1: at work, and the subconscious typically is responsible for a

192
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 1: lot more of our experience in our perception than we

193
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 1: give it credit for. And the experience you can feel

194
00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 1: it coming on, can't you. Yes, it's eerie, and that

195
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,360
Speaker 1: way it absolutely is. It sort of dawns on you,

196
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,640
Speaker 1: the impression dawns on you, and then you don't quite

197
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,360
Speaker 1: have the full appreciation for it. You're not really sure

198
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: what you're on the cusp of, and then it goes away.

199
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 1: Is there anything supernatural to it? I've got a friend

200
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 1: who's a doctor, and he thinks it's like some kind

201
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 1: of frontal lobe epilepsy, so he goes the medical way.

202
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: I'd rather go the more supernatural way. Well, like I say,

203
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 1: there are a lot of explanations for it. If folks

204
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: go onto online there are YouTube for example, there are

205
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,679
Speaker 1: many very very well presented explanations, and neurologically, there's a

206
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 1: lot going on. There's a lot to unpack. I happen

207
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,800
Speaker 1: to like this particular explanation because it seemed to explain

208
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 1: a very striking instance of deja vu that I had.

209
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 1: And again, I'm sort of predisposed to look into the unconscious.

210
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,360
Speaker 1: And when you talk about the supernatural, I think the

211
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 1: unconscious has a lot to do with what we talk

212
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 1: about is as supernatural, and it's a lot of it

213
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,920
Speaker 1: is out of our awareness, which is why it seems

214
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 1: so eerie. You talk about PTSD and you said there

215
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 1: are a couple types of PTSD. You explain that, yes,

216
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 1: this is one of the more surprising perhaps outcomes of

217
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 1: my research. I just thought there's one kind of PTSD,

218
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: which is the typical when people think of PTSD post

219
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 1: traumatic stress disorder, they think of sort of the flashbaald memory.

220
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a veteran of Vietnam or Iraq

221
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 1: and right Afghanistan, all that Afghanistan, and of course, of

222
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,760
Speaker 1: course people that have gone through a natural disaster or

223
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 1: some sort of trauma where someone has threatened them as

224
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: life threatening emergency. And again something in the environment, almost

225
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: like like deja vu. There's something environment that triggers this recollection,

226
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 1: and you know, it could be a car backfiring and

227
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,440
Speaker 1: the person feels like they're back on the battlefield, right,

228
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,440
Speaker 1: and you know, all of the smells, all the sites,

229
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 1: all the sound, all the fears come rushing back and

230
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,000
Speaker 1: they're overwhelmed and they can't tell left from right. And

231
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,120
Speaker 1: that's the flesh bulb form of PTSD. What I discovered

232
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,320
Speaker 1: is that in the last five to seven years there's

233
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,800
Speaker 1: been research into what's called a dissociative form of PTSD,

234
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: which affects between I think the numbers of fifteen to

235
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 1: thirty percent of people that have it. And dissociation is

236
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 1: the term for when you are sort of at a

237
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,600
Speaker 1: distance from your feelings and it's sort of automatic and

238
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 1: it kicks in. It's what I think is happening in

239
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 1: deja vu. And what happens for this percentage of people

240
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 1: with PTSD is, again, there's something that prompts the recollection,

241
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,480
Speaker 1: but this mechanism kicks in and association and they can't

242
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 1: really grasp it. They just feel like something is a

243
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 1: miss and sort of the opposite of the flashball type

244
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: of PTSD. They can't really visualize or crystallize what it is.

245
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 1: It's bothering them and it sort of feels like a

246
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,360
Speaker 1: funk or walking through you know, fog, and it goes

247
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,080
Speaker 1: on and they can't really get out of it. And

248
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: this is the associated form of PTSD, and it relates

249
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 1: in my estimation, I think there's good evidence for this.

250
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 1: It relates to two personality types George, or at least

251
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,480
Speaker 1: two ends of a personality spectrum, and two very pronounced

252
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: and very different reactions to a situation. What they had

253
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 1: in common was, you know, something that provoked great fear

254
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 1: and anxiety once upon a time, But two very different

255
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: reactions and two different forms of PTSD, you know, and

256
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 1: different people, as you say, react to it in different ways.

257
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: But some people who have been on the battlefield never

258
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: get PTSD. No, that's right, and most actually most people

259
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 1: do not, and in natural disasters as well, But there

260
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 1: a heck a lot of people that do, and that

261
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:15,440
Speaker 1: raises the larger question. You're very true to point this out,

262
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,240
Speaker 1: is is that most people don't. And so that's that's

263
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 1: the initial question. Why do some people get PTSD and

264
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,440
Speaker 1: others not? And then of course why do some people

265
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 1: suffer from this sort of variation of it? And again

266
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: it relates, I think, to a broad spectrum of personality

267
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 1: and in some sense how people are wired, especially emotionally,

268
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 1: what registers with them. And I come back to the

269
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 1: term sensitivity. I think some people are are prone or

270
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 1: primed in effect, to be traumatized, and they may not

271
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 1: know it, but it's just kind of how they are.

272
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 1: And other people can be much more resilient, and they

273
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 1: can walk away from something that would affect somebody else

274
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 1: quite severely. One of our favorite guess, Dean Rayden, wrote

275
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: a nice little snippet for you about your book. On

276
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 1: the back cover. He says, a fascinating tour of the

277
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 1: hitting influences that make us who we are and that

278
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: hold the clues to some truly extraordinary abilities. And he

279
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: knows what he's talking about, Michael, He does Dean is

280
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 1: a great guy, and he's been studying far more than

281
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,920
Speaker 1: I have over a longer period of time, and I've

282
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 1: Dean's one of the people that I've leaned on. I've

283
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,520
Speaker 1: been very fortunate in writing these books to work with

284
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 1: some terrific people. The co author of my first two books,

285
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 1: Mark mccozy, knows a heck of a lot about integrative

286
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,360
Speaker 1: healthcare and really the way we can consider people holistically

287
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,960
Speaker 1: in that outlook has really helped me to sort of

288
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 1: come along and put the pieces together. It's an amazing work.

289
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about your work. Do you

290
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 1: even get into animals? Don't you quite a bit? Much

291
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,959
Speaker 1: more again than I ever thought I would. They're all

292
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 1: around us and they're mammals like we are. So there's

293
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 1: a lot that we can observe about our own function

294
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 1: in our pets and our animal friends. When we tech

295
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 1: calls next hour with folks, if anybody has had some

296
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: emotional episodes, how do you feel comfortable with them sharing

297
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: that with you? Yes, absolutely nothing should be out of bounds.

298
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely positively. And since you've started putting this together, what

299
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 1: have you concluded about people that in terms of how

300
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 1: their emotions differ from different people, how people react to stress,

301
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: how people don't. Is there a common barometer here or denominator. Yeah,

302
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,919
Speaker 1: this is going to sound odd, but our commonality is

303
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 1: our diversity. We are all human beings. But there are

304
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: no two people who truly see the world and experience

305
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 1: the world identically. Maybe if they're identical twins. Maybe I'm

306
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 1: not even so sure on that that's true. But yeah,

307
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: everybody's different. We see this in our political environment in

308
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: the last many months and weeks. People get affected by

309
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,879
Speaker 1: different things and experience things very differently. But to me,

310
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: emotion is the bottom line. Emotion is what drives us.

311
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 1: It's it's the source of our strength in the world,

312
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 1: our animation, our energy to get up and do things.

313
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 1: It's what we, you know, feel moved about. That's that's emotion.

314
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

315
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am

316
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: dot com for more