Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Speaker 1: Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Rams's job. Big shout out to q Ward who is
Speaker 1: out on the road making it happen with the change makers.
Speaker 1: And we will be back in the studio together next week.
Speaker 1: But for now, we have a dear friend of the show.
Speaker 2: Amy Horwitz, with us.
Speaker 1: For those who don't know, Amy is an American conservative
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and
Speaker 1: director of Amy on the Loose, a satirical short film series.
Speaker 1: He is also the host of the recent documentary The
Speaker 1: Art of War, a look into the practices of the IDF.
Speaker 1: And we are in the middle of having a conversation
Speaker 1: that well can serve as an example of how to
Speaker 1: communicate with people who feel differently than you. Insofar as
Speaker 1: our politics are concerned. Amy and I have committed to
Speaker 1: loving each other no matter what, and that has forced
Speaker 1: us to see the human in each other over the politics,
Speaker 1: and so stick around to see how we navigate these waters.
Speaker 1: But before we get back to it, it's time to
Speaker 1: be aba, become a better allied Boba and today's Bobba.
Speaker 1: I want to shout out Stephanie Calabrisi and the film
Speaker 1: Unspoken for those that don't know. Unspoken is a powerful
Speaker 1: and insightful documentary feature film that explores the impact of
Speaker 1: racial division in a small southern town, particularly in relation
Speaker 1: to the nineteen forty six more Ford lynching, which is
Speaker 1: considered the last mass lynching in America. Through the iPhone
Speaker 1: camera lens of residents Stephanie Calabrisi, the film uncovers buried
Speaker 1: truths and shed the light on the secrecy that still
Speaker 1: surrounds this tragic event, as well as the ongoing impact
Speaker 1: of segregation, the civil rights movement, and the integration of
Speaker 1: schools and society in Monroe, Georgia. Source from forty interviews
Speaker 1: with fellow residents and extensive research, Unspoken offers a nuanced
Speaker 1: and complex understanding of the historical factors that have contributed
Speaker 1: to the racial divide in the town, as well as
Speaker 1: contemporary challenges that continue to perpetuate it. By bringing these
Speaker 1: issues to the surface, the film aims to inspire dialogue
Speaker 1: focused on race, relationship divisions and opportunities for reconciliation and
Speaker 1: hometowns across America. Unspoken is an important and timely work
Speaker 1: that has the potential to create meaningful change and contribute
Speaker 1: to a deeper understanding of the complex and ongoing impact
Speaker 1: of racism in America. Unspoken is now streaming on Amazon
Speaker 1: Prime Video in the US and the UK, and you
Speaker 1: can find out more at Unspoken dot film. And Stephanie
Speaker 1: is another friend of the show, and her take on
Speaker 1: this incident in this town is very special. You get
Speaker 1: to see the world through the lens of a white
Speaker 1: woman as she learns how her journey can be more
Speaker 1: meaningful and more impactful, as she grows in her role
Speaker 1: as an ally, and as she learns as a human
Speaker 1: being on a journey. And it's a very special film,
Speaker 1: So I employ you ought to see it once again
Speaker 1: Unspoken dot Film. All right, Ami, Now, when we're last talking,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that basically the reason why Trump's approval rating
Speaker 1: with Republicans is very similar to why Biden's approval rating
Speaker 1: was higher among liberals, and that's that, you know, whoever
Speaker 1: has their guy in the office, they're expecting the guy
Speaker 1: to do what they want, and if they're delivering on
Speaker 1: that agenda or those objectives, then they seem to be happy,
Speaker 1: which is a fantastic response. And the rest of the world,
Speaker 1: I think, if I may be so bold, is looking
Speaker 1: at some of the things that maybe he did not promise,
Speaker 1: some of the things that maybe were unexpected. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of what people expected was straight out of
Speaker 1: the pages of Project twenty twenty five. Right, So anything
Speaker 1: that comes out of Project twenty twenty five seems on
Speaker 1: brand for Donald Trump. He would say it's Agenda forty seven.
Speaker 1: But of course the architects of Project twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: are all over his cabinet, and there is a collective agenda,
Speaker 1: whether or not anyone admits to it, it very much
Speaker 1: mirrors the kind of the thrust of Project twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five to rework the government in the image of a
Speaker 1: decidedly conservative regime.
Speaker 2: Now, by the way, if I.
Speaker 3: May, is the job of every every administration, left or right.
Speaker 3: That's their job. Their goal is to make remake the
Speaker 3: government as much as they can the image of their philosophy.
Speaker 2: You could argue that.
Speaker 1: You could argue that, but so in Donald Trump's Big
Speaker 1: Beautiful Bill, for instance, And this is something that I've
Speaker 1: seen quite a bit from the right, from Republicans. There
Speaker 1: is a clause and I had it up on Google yesterday.
Speaker 1: I could pull it back up, but it was section seven.
Speaker 1: It was a five digit number, Section seven something or.
Speaker 2: Other, and.
Speaker 1: Buried in this big, beautiful bill was effectively an out
Speaker 1: for federal agents, federal actors from prosecution by federal judges.
Speaker 2: Right, And that kind of flies in the face.
Speaker 1: Of kind of the the I guess the premise of
Speaker 1: the founding documents in this country that set up, you know,
Speaker 1: checks and balances in our government. Right, there's no branch
Speaker 1: that is going to be unchecked. We will have no kings, right.
Speaker 1: And I think this and things like this I find
Speaker 1: to be very commonplace. There are things that just kind
Speaker 1: of come out of left field. When it comes to
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Terraff's come to mind. He talked about tariffs
Speaker 1: quite a bit, but his approach to tariffs, that strong
Speaker 1: armed approach that subjects everybody to that to what end
Speaker 1: it remains to be seen, is not something that the
Speaker 1: majority of people signed up for. And so to still
Speaker 1: have that, I guess that high of an approval rating
Speaker 1: relative to the rest of the people who are looking
Speaker 1: at this, like yo, okay, So he's the president. What
Speaker 1: is all this stuff coming out of left field? That's
Speaker 1: the part that feels a little crazy. So I'm appreciative
Speaker 1: of you know, you're kind of given that insight, and
Speaker 1: you know your point is made that you know, it's
Speaker 1: incumbent upon every administration to kind of rework the government
Speaker 1: in such a way that they can accomplish whatever it
Speaker 1: is they set out to accomplish. But based on everything
Speaker 1: that I know that I've been made aware of in
Speaker 1: my lifetime, this is very different.
Speaker 2: There are things that are being reworked in a way that.
Speaker 1: Feel like they fly in the face of what this
Speaker 1: country is about. Donald Trump has famously talked about running
Speaker 1: for a third term. He's walked it back, of course,
Speaker 1: a few times, and then walked it out again, and
Speaker 1: there's people around.
Speaker 2: Him that support that.
Speaker 1: So this, this whole administration feels a little strange. You
Speaker 1: go ahead and respond to that because I talked for
Speaker 1: a little bit, and then I want to switch gears
Speaker 1: one more time.
Speaker 3: Don't that's a troll, right, I mean, don't don't fall
Speaker 3: into the trap that that Trump wants you to follow
Speaker 3: the trap into, because obviously it's a pro he's not
Speaker 3: he's not looking to do to run for a third term.
Speaker 3: No one's supporting that. He Look, let me say this,
Speaker 3: one of the one of the biggest issues that I
Speaker 3: don't spend enough time talking about, but it really is
Speaker 3: one of the most important issues to me, is the
Speaker 3: outrageous growth of executive power. I think that executive the
Speaker 3: growth and executive power, the growth of the power of
Speaker 3: the presidency, specifically through executive orders, that has been growing
Speaker 3: exponentially with every president, right, every president. Yes, this this
Speaker 3: president has done more executive orders than Joe Biden. Joe
Speaker 3: Biden more than the than Barack Obama. Barack Obama did
Speaker 3: more than George Bush and so forth and so on.
Speaker 3: I think it is dangerous. I think it is one
Speaker 3: of the things that we have to spend. And by
Speaker 3: the way, it's and I think it's a non Parson issue.
Speaker 3: I think people there's there's no politics to it. I
Speaker 3: think both sides should come together and say we have
Speaker 3: to arrest this growth in presidential power. I don't like it,
Speaker 3: and I think it's dangerous. So yeah, I'm not a
Speaker 3: big fan of a lot of things that the president
Speaker 3: has done, even particularly the increase of executive power. But
Speaker 3: he's done nothing different or out of order than the
Speaker 3: prior president to him, and the prior president before that.
Speaker 3: I think all of that is dangerous and all of
Speaker 3: it needs to be stopped. I think the fact we
Speaker 3: have three branch of government was created for a reason,
Speaker 3: and I think that when you curtail the power of one,
Speaker 3: it is not good for this country.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's fair. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna. I
Speaker 1: want to lean into this a little bit if I can.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: I am black, all of my hair should give that away.
Speaker 1: And I work with marginalized communities, with Native communities, with
Speaker 1: women with lgbtq i A plus individuals, with religious minorities.
Speaker 2: With you know, you name it.
Speaker 1: Historically in this country, black people have had kind of
Speaker 1: the loudest voice and been able to go first. And
Speaker 1: so my philosophy has always been, Hey, if I can
Speaker 1: get in the door, I'm going to try to bring
Speaker 1: as many of you guys with me. We'll try to
Speaker 1: affirm our right to an equitable goal in this country.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump one of the things that he's done that
Speaker 1: is so sweeping and so fundamentally different from any other president,
Speaker 1: including Reagan, Nixon. These guys that were on the phone,
Speaker 1: calling black people monkeys and wondering why we wore shoes
Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Factual.
Speaker 3: Wait, who said that?
Speaker 2: Reagan and I just it just came up again and news.
Speaker 2: This is an old story.
Speaker 1: But Reagan and Nixon had a phone call that was recorded,
Speaker 1: and they you know, people forget that their calls are recorded.
Speaker 2: But they had to go to.
Speaker 1: Some global summit and they were recapping it and they
Speaker 1: were talking about the leaders from African countries and they
Speaker 1: were impressed at the leaders from the African countries and
Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, I'm surprised they were wearing shoes.
Speaker 1: You know, I thought they'd be like monkeys or whatever.
Speaker 1: And you could look that up yourself.
Speaker 2: It's why. Yeah, yeah, please, but and you listen, please
Speaker 2: look it up.
Speaker 1: I stand by it. I was just as shocked years
Speaker 1: ago when I saw it, and you know, was shocked
Speaker 1: again when I when I came across again. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so Donald Trump, more than even those people, has had
Speaker 1: this relentless attack on DEI. Right now, you agree with
Speaker 1: a lot of things that the conservative moment is calling for,
Speaker 1: so we don't need to get into those weeks particularly,
Speaker 1: but an attack on DEI diversity, equity, and inclusion. I
Speaker 1: want to make sure I say that because those words matter.
Speaker 1: An attack on diversity, equity and inclusion in the United
Speaker 1: States of America is one thing, unconscionable as it may be,
Speaker 1: it's one thing. The overreach, however, has spilled into institutions that,
Speaker 1: traditionally speaking, lie beyond the influence of the president to
Speaker 1: specifically carry out that agenda. Right there are people who
Speaker 1: are black, been black under a number of presidents, doing
Speaker 1: a job, and this administration seeks them out and replaces
Speaker 1: them because they now have a justification or rallying cry.
Speaker 1: They can say this is DEI. We don't need any
Speaker 1: DEI or woke nonsense. I guess they want sleep nonsense.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But go through and fire people, and some of these
Speaker 1: people I know, And that's the part of at least people
Speaker 1: I met in DC, you know, And obviously museums and
Speaker 1: institutions that are really meaningful to my people, places I
Speaker 1: can take my children and show them we're more than
Speaker 1: just the numbers. We're more than just this data that
Speaker 1: says that we do everything bad and we're always sick
Speaker 1: and nothing good happens for us.
Speaker 2: But no there's a story here.
Speaker 1: We're not just born to be bad and everything wrong
Speaker 1: happens to us. No, there are things that have happened
Speaker 1: along the way that have resulted in the data that
Speaker 1: you you are interpreting, and these things help frame the picture,
Speaker 1: so you are valuable. There are conditions that have placed
Speaker 1: our people in these circumstances. Right, that's important. That context
Speaker 1: is important for black children and for all children. Right,
Speaker 1: and these things have been attacked by this administration. Now,
Speaker 1: before you jump in on me, we could extend that.
Speaker 1: We could have conversations. We did have a conversation about
Speaker 1: you know, pronouns and trans athletes for some reason, athletes.
Speaker 1: How many trans athletes exist? We have this kind of
Speaker 1: not a lot, but you know, it affects all trans
Speaker 1: people because it shapes their reality.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: We could have conversations about immigration. We could have conversations
Speaker 1: about you know, people's rights to protest on school campuses
Speaker 1: or in general. We could have conversations about attacks on
Speaker 1: free press. We could have a number of conversations and
Speaker 1: we do. I want to say this. I want everybody
Speaker 1: listening to hear me. Amy Horowitz is my friend. Amy
Speaker 1: Horowitz is my brother. Okay, Amy Horowitz loves my children.
Speaker 1: Ami Horowitz is a supporter of this show, even though
Speaker 1: he doesn't agree with anything I'm talking about on the show.
Speaker 1: And I'm a supporter of Amy. I love Amy's mom,
Speaker 1: I love what Amy stands for. I think that Amy
Speaker 1: is a good human being. Amy is not a racist.
Speaker 2: Man. I'm a living, breathing testament to that fact.
Speaker 1: With that said, I'm going to ask you this question,
Speaker 1: and I want you to answer it for the benefit
Speaker 1: of our listeners so that they can learn from you
Speaker 1: and me.
Speaker 2: Okay, you with me?
Speaker 1: Okay, How you are not racist? Given everything I've said?
Speaker 1: How is it that you believe in everything that is
Speaker 1: the opposite of what the majority, the vast majority of
Speaker 1: black people want? How is it that that does not
Speaker 1: How can you explain that that is not fundamentally anti black?
Speaker 2: The floor is yours.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a fair question. It's a great question, And
Speaker 3: I will say, I mean, there's a lot to unpack
Speaker 3: on what you said, right, Sorry, that's all right. I'll
Speaker 3: try to get to as much as I can remember
Speaker 3: without taking doubts. First of all, DEI and you said
Speaker 3: words are important. I could not agree more. Diversity, equity,
Speaker 3: and inclusion. And I will say to you at that
Speaker 3: word that's being sandwiched between diversity and inclusion is a
Speaker 3: very dangerous word. Equity, not equality. Equity equity fundamentally the
Speaker 3: difference and equity is massive. It's massive. Equity means that
Speaker 3: everyone ends up in the same place. I just don't
Speaker 3: believe that's a reality. I don't believe that's something we
Speaker 3: should try for Equality, that everyone has the same opportunity
Speaker 3: is the word that I feel emotionally connected to and
Speaker 3: feels the more important word. Look, the name Thomas Soul
Speaker 3: is a name most people don't know.
Speaker 2: I know you did.
Speaker 3: And I would say Thomas Soul is not the most
Speaker 3: important black thinker. He's not the most important or not
Speaker 3: the greatest conservative thinker. I would argue Thomas Soul is
Speaker 3: the greatest thinker we have in America today. Happens to
Speaker 3: be a black ben right, and he talks about this
Speaker 3: stuff at nausey. There's a reason why Donald Trump, and
Speaker 3: you said almost all black people believe in these things.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you're right. I don't Donald Trump
Speaker 3: got a forty increase in the black vote.
Speaker 1: Yeah, increase real quick, Tommy, let's let's let's let's make
Speaker 1: that number live.
Speaker 2: I want you to continue.
Speaker 1: That forty increase in the black vote still resulted in
Speaker 1: eighty three percent of Black men voting for Kamala Harrison
Speaker 1: ninety two percent of Black women voting for Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1: So it's still a razor thin. No, No, it's a
Speaker 1: small not for sure small number of people black people.
Speaker 3: But go ahead, twelve to seventeen percent is a big jump.
Speaker 3: I know because the number because so many Black people
Speaker 3: voted Democrat for so many years. Yes, of course, ultimately
Speaker 3: the number is is is the vast majority is still
Speaker 3: voting for Democratic policies. But they had four years to
Speaker 3: see Donald Trump in a first term and they still
Speaker 3: increase their vote for the man. I think that says
Speaker 3: a lot ultimately. Let me look, I'm going to continue
Speaker 3: with what I'm saying, but let me ask you one
Speaker 3: quick question. Maybe it's not a quick question. Okay, you
Speaker 3: know what, never mind, let me let me let me
Speaker 3: lady canah ahead, Okay. Obviously everything what I'm saying is
Speaker 3: coming from a place of good right again, not what
Speaker 3: we taught before, not malice, right, You know that what
Speaker 3: I'm saying not coming from malice. I do believe that
Speaker 3: DDI does retard the growth of anybody who's trying to excel,
Speaker 3: whether it be black or Hispanic, or Jewish or wherever.
Speaker 3: I think those kind of policies are not positive policies.
Speaker 3: And I'll give you an example when when you when
Speaker 3: the UC system used University of California school system, they
Speaker 3: abolish affirmative action in nineteen ninety six, and that was
Speaker 3: a huge outcry saying it's going to destroy black education
Speaker 3: in California. And look, we didn't have any data, and
Speaker 3: there was an argument that that's true, right, And at
Speaker 3: the time I was probably I don't remember exactly about
Speaker 3: I'm sure I was for taking off of her of action.
Speaker 3: And the truth is, the first few years after nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety six, up in two two thousand, the black student
Speaker 3: population the UC system, which is probably the best public
Speaker 3: school universe system in the country, went down quite a bit.
Speaker 3: Looking back thirty years ahead, it's incredible what it does
Speaker 3: for the black community. The numbers actually have not changed
Speaker 3: that much. In fact, there's a bit of an increase
Speaker 3: that there's about a twenty percent increase in black enrollment
Speaker 3: in the UC system overall. After the abolishment of affirmative
Speaker 3: action in the system, even in the really good schools
Speaker 3: in Berkeley went down quite a bit. UCLA a grade school,
Speaker 3: it actually went up, and by the way, and also
Speaker 3: the failure rate of black students went down significantly in
Speaker 3: the UC system. So I'm only using that as an
Speaker 3: example because I don't really know a lot of the
Speaker 3: data beyond that. But I'm from California. At the time,
Speaker 3: I was very interested. I still am. The play of
Speaker 3: the black community, as you know, means a lot to me.
Speaker 3: I do a lot of videos on race and the
Speaker 3: black community because it's important as a society. We cannot
Speaker 3: succeed as a country with having an entire community fifteen
Speaker 3: percent of the community being held down. That's not good
Speaker 3: for just from a selfish perspective of the country, never
Speaker 3: mind what's better or not better for black people. From
Speaker 3: a self centered perspective, what's better for a country. We
Speaker 3: need black people to succeed. We can't afford to have
Speaker 3: that big a chunk of our country being held down.
Speaker 3: And obviously, for a moral perspective, we can't do this.
Speaker 3: So what I'm saying all these things come from perspective
Speaker 3: of I want as much success for all minorities and
Speaker 3: all people in America in general. But I've seen that
Speaker 3: these things have ultimately overall helped and by the way,
Speaker 3: DEI also comes at a cost. And I'll give you
Speaker 3: an example, a personal example. The Jewish population in Universe
Speaker 3: in Ivy League schools were over a third twenty five
Speaker 3: years ago, and as the black student population has increased,
Speaker 3: because they have continued to use DEI in a firm
Speaker 3: of action in their policies, jewishters have been cut in
Speaker 3: half half of what they were before. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that's Look, I'm not saying we don't want more
Speaker 3: black people in Ivy League schools. I want that and
Speaker 3: we need that. I just don't think DUI is the
Speaker 3: way to do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So just because we're running out of time, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna jump in here and we have to kind of
Speaker 1: wrap things up. Thank you for sharing that perspective. I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that that stated. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of people who don't know that people that oppose diversity,
Speaker 1: equity and inclusion have a logical linear argument for it.
Speaker 1: They just simply think that these people are morally bankrupt.
Speaker 1: Some of them are a lot of them are, but
Speaker 1: there are people such as yourself that can make a
Speaker 1: logical argument based on the data that they have collected
Speaker 1: and the interpretations of that data to arrive at the
Speaker 1: conclusions that you've arrived at. Now, it would be irresponsible
Speaker 1: of me not to respond. So I have to say
Speaker 1: a couple of.
Speaker 3: Things, and I would expect nothing less.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The equity versus equality thing. I think that that's the
Speaker 1: most important thing that I want to speak to here.
Speaker 1: Equality is something that is very difficult to accomplish without equity,
Speaker 1: And if you're familiar with the monopoly experiments, then this
Speaker 1: would make a lot of sense to you. But if
Speaker 1: you've been able to play the game longer than I have,
Speaker 1: with all the rules working in your favor, and I
Speaker 1: have not been able to and then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you say, okay, everything's fair. Start from zero, and
Speaker 1: you have a head start, You've already bought up a
Speaker 1: lot of properties, etc. And I'm just trying to have
Speaker 1: a go in it, it becomes very challenging for me
Speaker 1: to gain any ground and to be compared to you
Speaker 1: in terms of the data, like how is my community
Speaker 1: doing versus is your community?
Speaker 2: For the sake of equality.
Speaker 1: It presents some complicated factors, and I really want to
Speaker 1: get to more of this, so we're just going to
Speaker 1: have to have you back on.
Speaker 2: But giving us that insight into.
Speaker 1: The fact that there is at least something there, I
Speaker 1: think that's important.
Speaker 2: I don't you know this.
Speaker 1: I don't like platforming dangerous ideas, but I do trust you,
Speaker 1: and I do appreciate you letting us know that despite
Speaker 1: being misinformed or underinformed, or maybe having a different idea
Speaker 1: of what to do with the same set of data,
Speaker 1: that you know people can be good people at the
Speaker 1: same time. So do me a favorite, Amy shout out
Speaker 1: to your social media before we let you go.
Speaker 3: Just my name, Amy Horo. It's at all the major platforms, all.
Speaker 2: Right, and then don't forget. You can find me on
Speaker 2: all social media.
Speaker 1: At Rams's job of course, at civicxciphone, all platforms, and
Speaker 1: until next week, y'all. Peace,