1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: My name is Matt Noel is on an adventure today 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: they called me Ben. We are joined as always with 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,639 Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, mission controlled decand most importantly, you 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: are you. You are here that makes this stuff they 9 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: don't want you to know, Uh, Matt. Today's episode is 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: a follow up on an earlier Listener Mail segment for 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: um A few weeks ago, a minute, years ago? What day? 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: What year is it? Who knows? I have no idea 13 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: what's happening where we are? When it is, it's all good. 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: We talked about this previously. Yeah, I went out. I 15 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: went outside yesterday and actually had to go somewhere, and 16 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: I felt just like Robin Williams and Jamanji, you know 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: when he burst out and he's here suit he was 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: always he was. It was he was very much her 19 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: suit and hilarious man. Uh So, in this Listener Male segment, 20 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: you and I learned about an enormous ongoing controversy concerning 21 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,839 Speaker 1: the sport and science of boxing and a person named 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: Daniel Kinahan. Daniel Kinahan is an Irishman who currently lives 23 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: in Dubai. He is a he wants to be a 24 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: boxing promoter, and he's got a lot of influence in 25 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: the world of boxing a multiple levels. The world of 26 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: what could be described as combat sports, I think would 27 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: be more accurate. He is also widely I want to 28 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: be careful how I say this, he is wide you 29 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: suspected to be the head of an international crime ring 30 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: sort of like a maybe not quite on the level 31 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: of Pablo Escobar, you know, who pretty much controlled the 32 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: country at one point. But it is like an alternate 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: reality version of like what would happen if Pablo Escobar 34 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: got into boxing in a big way? In today's episode, 35 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: we're taking a closer look at this story as well. 36 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Was the darker side of boxing overall? And yes, folks, 37 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: we we know what you're thinking. Wait, boxing two guys 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: beating the out of each other in a way that 39 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: can lead to permanent injury? What could be more wholesome 40 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: than that? What do you mean? Dark side? Guys? How 41 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: could there be anything wrong with that sport? Dude? That is. 42 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: That's a whole episode two talking about the lasting effects 43 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: of the sport of boxing in particular, all combat sports, 44 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: but box in particular due to the nature of the 45 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: gloves and the trauma that happens to the head constantly. 46 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: American football as well. I think it was, Um, did 47 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: you work on that video with us about concussions? I did. 48 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: I made that video. Yeah, you made that video. Okay, yeah, 49 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: I think what you made that video and I was 50 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: just sort of there. I think you wrote a lot 51 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: of the stuff that Jason Jason Hooke, who formerly was 52 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 1: head of content here or head of content at Stuff Media. Yeah, 53 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: he does the voiceover. I can't. We don't even remember 54 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 1: all this stuff we've done anymore. No, No, but it's 55 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: it's a serious thing like concussions alone, but there's all 56 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: kinds of other damage that can be done with it. 57 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: So there's already like a serious danger to it for 58 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: anyone participating, but it also appears like there's a serious 59 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: danger to people on the periphery and people who are 60 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: running some of some of the show here, and before 61 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: we really dive in, uh, we want to make it 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: clear that we personally understand that there is an art 63 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: to this pursuit. There is a science. This is not 64 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: This is not the episode where Matt and Ben just 65 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: dunk on boxing and the sport itself. We're actually I think, um, 66 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: I enjoy watching it and trained just a little bit 67 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: with it back in the day. But Matt, you you 68 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: out now love boxing, right. Boxing has a very special 69 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: place in my heart because my father and I used 70 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: to watch it together. We had Showtime and there was 71 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, Showtime always would have special fights, like regular 72 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: fights that would come on. We would also, you know, 73 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: back in the late nineties when we were hanging out 74 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: a lot together, we would watch like Evander Holyfield go 75 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: up against somebody, would watch the Tyson fight. Um. So yeah, 76 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: there's a special place in my heart for it. And 77 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: I I I did a lot of like you know, 78 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: karate and stuff when I was a kid, So I 79 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: was really into the like the strikes, the actual strikes 80 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: and what does it look like and how do you 81 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: avoid and how do you evade? And um, yeah, I'm 82 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: very much into the science of it. And actually, Ben, 83 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: you and I have discussed before this is a little 84 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: inside baseball. We have discussed going into some M M 85 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: A style training right before the quarantine occurred. Um, still 86 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: very much on no Cropmagad though, Well, I mean, yeah, 87 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: we can go, we can skip the crowd, Magad. But 88 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm definitely down to do whatever training you're into. Ben 89 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: And uh So if you're a gym out there in 90 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Atlanta and you're interested, hey, we we want in if 91 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: it's safe. Same um and and the reason I should 92 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: be clear, Matt, I'm not saying categorically no Cropmagod. I 93 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: just think we should work our way up to it. 94 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm down, throw me in the deep end. Let's do it. 95 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: Let's do it. Yeah and uh and and shout out 96 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: to you for having showtime as a kid. Fancy you 97 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Yeah, baby, we had showtime. I 98 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: thought as a child, I thought that was for like 99 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 1: chics and billionaires showtime. Shoot. I don't even go into 100 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: skin Amax because we had that too. I learned a 101 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: lot from pay for TV stuff. Has this has the 102 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: I don't know whether there's a statute of limitations here, 103 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: so Paul take this out please if I am skirting 104 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: legal lines. But I can't be the only person who 105 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: found how to found out how to make those cable 106 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: the scramblers and black boxes, right, that was a whole 107 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: new the whole new era for me. I don't know 108 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, Ben, all right, I know what 109 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: we're supposed to be talking about. That's boxing, that's specifically 110 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: this controversy. So here are the facts right now as 111 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: we record, there is a fight brewing, two fights in fact. 112 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: Uh the date for these fights remains unannounced, as as 113 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: the venue, but the insiders and those in the know 114 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: believe it may it may well end up being a 115 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: fight held in the Middle East. There are two boxers, 116 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, who are doubtlessly going to 117 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: be familiar to boxing fans in the audience today. Both 118 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: of these men are straight up champions in their own right. 119 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: They're legit us. And so in this series of two bouts, 120 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: the winner will become the first undisputed heavyweight champion in 121 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: twenty years basically. Yeah, And and and that just has to 122 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: do with all of the various organizations like deciding that 123 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: this is the one person we are going to crown 124 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: this one person, because there are numerous organizations that deal 125 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: with boxing where you know you can you can win 126 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: a belt essentially for one organization. Another person can win 127 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: a heavyweight champion belt on another organization. But this is 128 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: like the one they unified. Yeah, exactly. There's kind of 129 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: a think of it like a pyramid shape of different organizations, right, 130 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: and you fight, you literally fight your way up to 131 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: the top. So now we are at the peak of 132 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: the pyramid. Were at the capstone, and this is uh, 133 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: this is a huge deal, especially for our friends across 134 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: the pond on the other side of the Atlantic. Both 135 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: of these fighters are from England and that is why 136 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: a lot of fans, a lot of pundit's enthusiasts of 137 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: the sports are calling it the biggest fight in British 138 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: boxing history. And it is two fights, correct, I believe 139 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: it's it's like they will fight once, maybe one of 140 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: them wins, they get to fight again just in case, 141 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: or you know, just to settle the score at least 142 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: attempt to. And that's the one. The second one is, 143 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: like I mean, the first one is a huge draw, 144 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: tons of money involved. The second one will probably be 145 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: even bigger. Oh yeah, oh for sure. No matter what 146 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: the outcome of the first one is, uh, the world 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: will be watching the second bout. Just to give you 148 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: a sense of their championships uh, Anthony Joshua is the 149 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: current h W B A, I B F w O 150 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: and I B O champion. Tyson Fury is the w 151 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: C and the ring champion. And our story today really 152 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: starts with Tyson, I would say, with Tyson Fury. Oh yeah, 153 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: and let's talk about him. He's fascinating character, really really 154 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: fascinating character. His we talked about on that previous episode, 155 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: just watching his rise to fame and to the championship 156 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: matches and everything. He's really interesting person. But in June 157 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: of this guy, Tyson Fury, he went on Instagram, I believe, 158 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: and he publicly thanked a specific person, a man named 159 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: Daniel Kinahan and one we mentioned at the top, the 160 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar allegedly Pablo Escobar style figure, thanked him for 161 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: his help and influence in organizing this huge of fights. 162 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: And this simple call out to a name has led 163 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: to a lot of strange things, a lot of revelations 164 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: really about perhaps this person's involvement in the sport. Yeah, 165 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: exactly so A side note, quick correction which I thought 166 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: was hilarious and a little bit disorienting for all of us. 167 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: In that Listener Male segment, we talk about Tyson Furies Moniker, right, 168 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: and as kind of like public persona that people have 169 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: of him. Uh, he has been called the Gypsy King. 170 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: That's that's the name that they've used, and of course 171 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: that's a problematic term, but that's what people call him. 172 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: And that led us to conjecture whether or not he 173 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: was possible inspiration for Brad Pitt's character in the amazing 174 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: film Snatch, which still holds up. Uh. And so Brad, 175 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: I owe you a personal apology because I said something like, look, 176 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: he's an amazing actor. That is true. It had to 177 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: come from somewhere, though, so could it have been Tyson Fury? Well, 178 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: that is probably not true unless Fury is even more 179 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: badass than we have ever imagined, because he was twelve 180 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: years old when Snatch came out and other distressing news, 181 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: the disorienting part. Snatch is about twenty one years old 182 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: now or will be this year, and it remains amazing. 183 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: It is still one of my favorite movies. It's so good. 184 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: So but but honestly, if you're gonna watch Snatch, watch 185 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: Lockstock first, because it's just as good. If not, I 186 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: don't know, if not better, you have to. They've always 187 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: been a combo meal to me, you know what I mean? Yeah, sure, absolutely, 188 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: you got you gotta you gotta see the guy Richie universe. 189 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: But yes, so that that's a quick correction on our part. 190 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: As we said, time has been a little funding for 191 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: us recently. But anyhow, so what's the big deal boxers? 192 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: I would say world famous athletes in general have a 193 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: ton of friends, They have entourages, they know a great 194 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: many people. Well, Kenahan, you see, is no ordinary boxing promoter. 195 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: He we want to say at the beginning, he has 196 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: no convictions at all. As a he has a squeaky 197 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: clean record. If his record were if his criminal record 198 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: were a kitchen floor, you could eat off of it. 199 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: There is nothing. However, he is wanted for questioning in 200 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: three different places in Europe uh and in ten an 201 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: Irish High Court claimed that he is, in addition to 202 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: being a fan of boxing, a senior figure in quote 203 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: organized crime on a global scale. Uh So furious public 204 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: shout out there on social media, which would seem to 205 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: be like a kind of ephemeral thing, you know what 206 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: it means to the post with your friends. This led 207 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: to a lot of controversy and outrage in the Irish press. 208 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: And in the Irish government, Yeah, it certainly did, and 209 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: that that group there is the Kinahan Cartel, at least 210 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: that's how it's referred to by the Guardia and a 211 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: couple other international crime fighting organizations. And again it's got 212 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: a long history and we can, we can, we're gonna 213 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: talk about it here in a moment, but you're right 214 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 1: that that quick little shout out it just had some 215 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: had some effects. The government in Ireland expressed a lot 216 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: of well what's called outrage in many of the publications 217 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: of the papers that you'll read they're coming out of Ireland. 218 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: They call it outrage over Kinhan's role as Furies advisor, 219 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, saying things like again, it's like just being 220 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: publicly outraged, right, like, ah, we can't believe. This is 221 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: absolutely unacceptable, this is tragic. And they're warning that the 222 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: reputation to you know, boxing, this thing that we hold 223 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: so dear in clubs around the country and around the world, Um, 224 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: they're gonna be sullied. The reputations are gonna be sullied 225 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: by this association with a guy who has been known 226 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: to engage in quote, activities which are completely and utterly 227 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: unacceptable and and it's a tough thing, like morally to 228 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: to talk about something like this, and it's a whole 229 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: discussion you can get into. Is boxing as a sport moral, 230 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, is there a morality there are we talking about? 231 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: Are we getting into the olden days of gladiators? Is 232 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: that it's often compared to that when you're you're you know, 233 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: when philosophical discussions occur around that sport, in any other 234 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: combat sport. But um, the activities which are completely and 235 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: utterly unacceptable are terrible things. Murders and drug running and 236 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: gun smuggling and all kinds of activities. So it's it's 237 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: both weird to think of, you know, a country being 238 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: outraged that this kind of person is involved with a 239 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: sport that has an underbelly of a black market in betting. 240 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: But it is true that it is outrageous that those 241 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: things are occurring and somebody could be involved. It's a 242 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: good point. It's a good point. There's a lot of 243 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: money on the line as well, which, as we will see, 244 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: fundamentally alters the equation. You're absolutely right. It's no secret 245 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: that boxing has had its share of unsavory characters and 246 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: corruption and real life conspiracies. In the form of financial 247 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: shenanigans and fixed a bouts a plenty. But so again, 248 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: what's the big deal about Kinahan? After all? Let us 249 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: stuff forget here. In the United States, boxing promoter Don 250 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: King once literally stomped a man to death, and it 251 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: was his employee. By the way he stopped, he killed 252 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: someone that worked for him by stepping on them. And 253 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: that did not hurt Mike Tyson's career one bit, you 254 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: know what I mean. That didn't hurt other people's careers, 255 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: and and Don King went on to continue working. But Kinahan, 256 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: as we will come to find, is a bit of 257 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: a different case. We'll tell you why after a word 258 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Do you love boxing but hate the 259 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: uncertainty of your hard earned money going the wrong way 260 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: on a bet? Dah? That's the worst part about it. 261 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: I've got all this money sitting around, I mean a 262 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: couple d but I want to make sure that I'm 263 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: gonna double or triple maybe even quadruple it. Yes, as 264 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: fans of boxing, no predictability is key. 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Fix a Fight is an illegal 284 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: application and cannot be used in the following sports boxing, water, polo, football, 285 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: American football, syncronized swimming pole, vaulty, mixed martial pedietry, makes 286 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 1: martial arts, makes marshal ping pole. Using this app triggers 287 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: immediate investigation by authorities, as well as association with organized 288 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: rot I fixed my wallet with fix a fight, and 289 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: you can't too. Here's where it gets crazy. All right, 290 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: let's just ask is Daniel Kinahan and Irish Escobar. Well 291 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: to answer that question, Ben, we have to go all 292 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: the way back to nineteen seventy seven. Win Big Dan 293 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: as he's sometimes called, was born. He's the son of 294 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: a man named Christie Kinahan, who is arguably the most 295 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: interesting person in this story. And if you, if you want, 296 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: you can really research that guy. Fascinating story. Christie Kinahan, 297 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: that's his father, Dan or Daniel currently resides in the 298 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: United did Arab Emirates as far as anyone can guess, Dubai, 299 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: the city there that we've discussed before, and this thing 300 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: called it's it's always referred to as the c A B. 301 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: Kind of like the c I A I guess in 302 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: a way, but not really more like the FBI. It's 303 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: Ireland's Criminal Assets Bureau. They claim that Daniel Kinahan controls 304 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: and manages this thing that they referred to as the 305 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: Kinahan Organized Crime Group. That sounds very official. The media 306 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: has dubbed it the Kinahan Cartel what we've mentioned earlier 307 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: in this episode, and this cartel or this group, they 308 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: believed to have been founded by the father of Daniel Kinahan, 309 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: Christie Kinahan, also known as the Dapper down christ Is 310 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: because of his pensiant for Panama hats in cool suits. 311 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: So the authorities in Ireland believe that this Kinahan family, 312 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: this organization actively smuggles firearms and drugs into Ireland, the 313 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: United Kingdom and the most of Europe. It is true 314 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: that Christie Kinahan has in the past been convicted of 315 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: of crimes related to this these sorts of pursuits, but 316 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: if you ask the authorities, that didn't stop him from 317 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: continuing this career. They believe the Kinahan cartel is huge, 318 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: with connections ranging as far afield as the Middle East 319 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: where Daniel Kinahan is now, to Asia and all the 320 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: way to South America. Yeah, we're talking Russian involvement, all 321 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: kinds of countries across the globe, kind of a United 322 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: Nations of crime. The Irish government believes that Daniel Kinahan 323 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: essentially inherited the family banana stand you know, whatever reference 324 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: you want to make. Uh, he himself has successful, He's 325 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: in his early forties. He has successfully avoided being a 326 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: murdered by rival organist nations which definitely attempted to kill 327 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: him uh one time famously attempted to kill him publicly 328 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: publicly UH. And he has also avoided being thrown in jail. 329 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: But despite this, his name is indelibly attached to the 330 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: most infamous gang feud in modern Irish history. It's like 331 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: what you if you are in Ireland. You you wake 332 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: up in Dublin, you read the morning paper, you see 333 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: the name Kinahan. This is the first thing you're going 334 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: to think about. That's right. It's a drug feud. It's 335 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: called the Hutch Kinahan feud. That's at least how it's 336 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: referred to. And it's a conflict that is the Kinahan 337 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: organized crime group or the cartel versus this thing called 338 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: the Hutch gang. And there's a person named Jerry Hutch G. E. 339 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: R R. Y. Hutch who in particular is supposed to 340 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: be the one kind of running the show in the 341 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: Hutch family. And there's again there's a large organization there. 342 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: It's not some you know, small time thing. And there 343 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: are many many shootings, multiple shootings that have occurred in 344 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: Dublin and Spain that are very high profile. There was 345 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: a death toll so far at least I think the 346 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: count right now is around twenty or more, but at 347 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: least eighteen to twenty victims deaths that have occurred because 348 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: of this feud, and there's something like sixty arrests I think. 349 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: And and honestly, it's weird because a lot of how 350 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: this has been playing out ends up in what they 351 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: would consider the tabloids in Ireland and other parts of 352 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom, and it's hard to tell what's fully 353 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: occurring in the background. Maybe that isn't being written about 354 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: in the papers, right, Yeah, So the Irish reporting, the 355 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: Irish reporting will stays on this and the recent events 356 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: have renewed interest in the feud. I would say Irish 357 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: authorities never stopped thinking about this. And you make a 358 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: really good point about what we would consider tabloid papers 359 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: in the UK reporting on on these events, because you 360 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: know what's got the sensationalist stuff that that is fantastic 361 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: for readership right, for ads and getting getting attention there, 362 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: But how how accurate are they being versus how speculative 363 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: or sensational would be a better word. Yeah, And I 364 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: don't mean to throw any of those publications under the bus. 365 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: I would just say from our end here in the States, 366 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: it's difficult to maybe parse sometimes what's you know, like, 367 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: what's coming out of the publication of Belfast versus what's 368 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: coming out of a thing that is sometimes considered a tabloid. Yeah, exactly. 369 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: And so the feud that began in murder of Gary 370 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: Hutch was Jerry Hudge's nephew continues today. The most infamous 371 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: of these events is probably the Regency Hotel shooting of sixteen, 372 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: when people who are trying to assassinate Daniel Kinahan ended 373 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: up fatally shooting an associate of the cartel named David Burne. Uh. 374 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: This this is like cinematic. It's a movie level altercation. 375 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: People are dressed as law enforcement. One guy dresses as 376 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: a woman. Uh to other people, I think gets shot, 377 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: but burn is the is the only fatality. And this 378 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: gets a lot of coverage in the news because it's 379 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: such a crazy story. And Matt, I love the point 380 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: you made. We said, Okay, these numbers might be a 381 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: little bit tricky because we don't we don't know how 382 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: much stuff went on that never made it to the 383 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: to the media right or never made it to the authorities, 384 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: and just in this incident, and we did talk about 385 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: it before, and then you're doing a great job describing 386 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 1: it there. It's just important to know that it's taking 387 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: place at a way in for a boxing match. That's 388 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: when this goes down. They're in a hotel. You can 389 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: see video that's occurring, you know, of the official the 390 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: fighters are up there, some of them, you know, they've 391 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: got their shirts off there like posing for the pictures. 392 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: And then some sounds start occurring out in the lobby 393 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: of the hotel. People are running for their for their lives. Um, 394 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: there's a harrying video you can see where there's a 395 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: child at one point rushing out of one of these 396 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: back entrances, just saying, Dad, what was that about? Dad? 397 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: What was that? Like? Crying? It's it's it's awful to 398 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: actually watch some of it. And you're right, that was 399 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: the clash of the clans, which was well, we'll get 400 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: into we'll get into why this event in particular was 401 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: a blow to Kinahan's boxing career, which I think it's 402 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: fair to call the boxing career. So obviously, all of 403 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: this context, all of this background, it is no surprise 404 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: that when members of the Irish public read the name 405 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: Kinahan and the news, they're way more likely to think 406 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: of gangland murders that and they are of boxing matches. 407 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: At this point, they'll probably think of boxing too, but 408 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: it'll be a the second thing they think of Uh Kinahan. 409 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: It seemed set for a number of years to reinvent 410 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: his image. Think of don't think of me as associated 411 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: with crime, think of me as associated with boxing. I 412 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a big player in the world of boxing, 413 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: and he's been successful in that regard, especially in the 414 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: Middle East. Just last year and he was appointed as 415 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: a special advisor for k h K Sports Arre in Bahrain, 416 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: and in May of last year he finally spoke to 417 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: the public. He should his first public statement on anything 418 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: since since the events at the Regency Hotel during the 419 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: clash of the Plans. He said, it is an honor 420 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: for me to work with His Highness Chik Khalid bin 421 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: Hammad al Khalifa, Mr. Mohammed Shalid and the entire team 422 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: at k h K Sports. K h K Sports has 423 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: made an impressive mark on the world of combat sports 424 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: and has fantastic ambitions to grow into a global powerhouse. 425 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: I look forward to working with the team to realize 426 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: these dreams and further build brain combat sports into a 427 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: globally recognized presence. It seems pretty legit, spiffy. Yeah, I 428 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: mean it's without that context. This is a pretty innocuous, 429 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: polished statement. It sounds exactly like what you're supposed to 430 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: say when you get a pretty prestigious job like this, 431 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: you're an advisor to someone who is legally called His Highness. 432 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: That's wild, you know what I mean? That is the 433 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: upper echelond right there. But they're opposing opinions about this 434 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: about like, so, Canon's never been convicted, So could you 435 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: even say he's quote unquote turning over a new leaf? 436 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: Could you say that this is not legitimate? Somehow? There 437 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: are two really divided camps about about this guy. One 438 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: group absolutely supports him, including boxers themselves. Reporters have asked 439 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: plenty of boxers about Kinahan, and they get these positive answers, 440 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: with people saying things like, you know, he's a friend 441 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: of mine, everybody trust him, everybody respects him, and also 442 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: add he's been unfairly treated. The press, they say, is 443 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: out to get him. Uh, But people also praise his 444 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: connections and you know, in his defense, this is not 445 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: something that suddenly happened, didn't come out of the blue. 446 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: Daniel Kinahan has been uh into boxing for years and 447 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: years and years. In two thousand twelve, he's set up 448 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: a company that was at the time called MGM Boxing. 449 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: They're the they're the group that was running the way 450 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: in at the Regency in twenty six for their event, 451 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: the Clash of the Clans, which I think is a 452 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: weird historical coincidence, right that there would be a clan 453 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: war at the Clash of the Clans. There are at 454 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: least of that was the flashpoint. Yeah, that's interesting. Um. 455 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: And and that brand MGM Boxing, and you know, all 456 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: of the gyms associated with it, and the you know, 457 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: the promotions. It changed names and what is probably it 458 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: was definitely a pr move. It was rebranded as m 459 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: t K Global, which that empty case stands for Mac 460 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: the Knife, by the way, and they cut ties with 461 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: its founder, Daniel Daniel Kay. At least officially, they cut 462 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: ties with the founder. Publicly they did that. And this 463 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: is all an attempt to get rid of the stigma 464 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: or to try and avoid the stigma that came with 465 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: that clash of the clans incident and and and ensuing 466 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: gang war. Yeah, exactly. The issue is that that's that 467 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: attempt to cut ties didn't work as well as they 468 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: had hoped, and the stigma with M t K and 469 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: organized crime still still remains. And now let's go to 470 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: the other group, the people who think this guy is 471 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: definitely like a drug lord and a crime lord. Irish authorities, 472 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: a huge swath of the Irish media are not buying 473 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: this boxing promotion narrative. They argue that despite not ever 474 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: being convicted of anything, Kinahan took control of the cartel 475 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: from his father about five or six years ago because 476 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: the Dapper Dawn wanted to retire, and that now Daniel 477 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: Kinahan himself directly controls plays a leading role in a 478 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: cartel that's doing billions of euros of dollars worth of 479 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: business across three continents and all the while racking up 480 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: an enormous body count in the process, which to me 481 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: means that if any of this is true, you can 482 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: say one thing about kinahana boxing. He's not in it 483 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: for the money, maybe right, Like, he doesn't seem like 484 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: a guy is really sweating the water. Bill. Yeah, it's 485 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: weird because when you're that close to boxing. We talked 486 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: about this before, there's so much money to be made 487 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: on on the level with a boxing match, right with 488 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: with betting that is sanctioned, with the actual winnings, with 489 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: all the money you make at a big event in 490 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: person or on pay per view. There's a ton of 491 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: money to be made up here, and there's so much 492 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: more money to be made down here in in the 493 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: the off books betting, or just in the darker side 494 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: of the betting world. So maybe in it for the 495 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: money to like run part of this business, but he 496 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: doesn't need it personally, right, that's the whole point. Yeah, 497 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: I think I got myself into a weird spot cognitively 498 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: because ordinarily I like it. I like knowing when someone 499 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: is not in in something purely for financial gain because 500 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: that means on some level they care about it in 501 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: a way they cannot be quantified. And typically was that 502 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: that kind of motivation results in better work, more more passionate. 503 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, you're absolutely right, You are absolutely right. And 504 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: authorities believed that Kenahan's ability to duck the law so 505 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: well and so often comes down to what they describe 506 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,719 Speaker 1: as meticulous planning. And keeping an absolute minimum number of 507 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: people in the know about business ventures. Dude. And and 508 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: we didn't even really get into Christie's background too much. 509 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: Like I said, fascinating read. I think he learned from 510 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: the best. That's why if Daniel is in fact this 511 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: mob leader, he's good at it because he learned from 512 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: his father. His father went to prison for quite a 513 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: while and ended up earning two degrees while he was 514 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: in prison. He even gave up the opportunity to leave 515 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: prison early because he wanted to finish a degree while 516 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: he was in there. He allegedly owns hundreds of millions 517 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: of dollars worth of properties in many places, allegedly. I 518 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: haven't actually seen property deeds or anything like that, but um, 519 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, we're talking like five million dollar home in 520 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: one place, hundred sixty million dollar home in another place, 521 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: like multiple properties, so many properties in Ireland. That guy, 522 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: the father, was very good at what he was doing, 523 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: and apparently very good at hiding money and travel and 524 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: keeping operations at very secret. And he is alive right 525 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: now as we record. He is happily retired in Spain. 526 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: The father that is, uh, yes, yeah, there is. There 527 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: is a strong indication that I like the way you 528 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: put it, that he learned from the best, and people 529 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: believe they've cracked the code. Detective Superintendent David Gallagher from 530 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: the National Drugs and Organized Crime Bureau of Ireland walked 531 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 1: through the hierarchy of the gang of the organization in 532 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: court and he said, they have this structure. It's very clever. 533 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: It's kind of thing you know, you and I would do. Probably. 534 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: They have sub cells that everybody's organized into these cells, 535 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 1: and they're structured such that if an operation goes wrong 536 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: or if someone tries to turn into an informant, which 537 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: Irish media calls turning tout. By the way, I thought 538 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,720 Speaker 1: that was so cool, if someone does try to snitch, 539 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: they will literally not have the information they need because 540 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: they'll only know about their part of the of the web, right, 541 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: and they're part of the process well, and it's structures 542 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: that if somebody from that sub cell is seeking information, 543 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: specific information from higher up, it becomes an incredibly suspicious thing. 544 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 1: And you, yeah, it's a way to root out people 545 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: who may have turned out. Yes, it's true. It works 546 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: both way. So authorities also maintain that, yes, the organization's 547 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: move towards the world of boxing. Maybe real, legitimate actually 548 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: has happened, but that doesn't mean that it's also, you know, 549 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: not still a crime ring. That's that's basically their argument. 550 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: They're making that face any court that matches made. So 551 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: there you have it. This story has some updates that 552 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: will get to at the end of the show, but 553 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: first let's take a break for word from our sponsor, 554 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: and then we'll come back to talk just a little 555 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: bit about boxing, your crime in general, where there is 556 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: a great deal of stuff they don't want you to know. 557 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: All right, we are back and we are jumping into 558 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: boxing and crime in general, a little bit of corruption, 559 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: a little side of corruption. Uh. There's an outlet called 560 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: Journal dot i E. It's actually really great. You should 561 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: check it out if you can. There's a lot of 562 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: cool reporting in the in there about boxing, just as 563 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: the sport and this topic in general. Here's a quote 564 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: from them. The sport and business of boxing has been 565 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: infiltrated by criminal elements for the best part of two decades. 566 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: The potential to earn large amounts of cash and to 567 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: rub shoulders with the rich and famous at ringsides around 568 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: the world proved alluring for Ireland's top criminals. Now this 569 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: makes sense if you've ever I'm gonna take it to 570 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: m A instead of boxing. But it's it's it's not 571 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: the same thing, right from a sport, from a science perspective, 572 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: from the sport itself, but in the events, boxing and 573 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: m m A are very very very similar. If you 574 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: look at something the UFC puts on and a big 575 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: pay per view show, let's say something that happened not 576 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: long ago. Connor McGregor is fighting, and you know before 577 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 1: of course warantine and all of the coronavirus implementations where 578 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: there's nobody in the audience. When you look at one 579 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: of these big matches down at the front right near 580 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: the ring, there are going to be celebrities and powerful individuals, 581 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: many times faceless powerful individuals those who don't show up 582 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: in the newspaper all the time, don't You don't recognize 583 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: them when their face flashes across. But that person in 584 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: that audience may be extremely powerful. Yeah. Absolutely, you get 585 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: access and and access is a extremely valuable thing. So 586 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: to react to that claim, what do we say, Well, yes, 587 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: the conspiracy is real. I mean for numerous reasons, Boxing 588 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: as his sport, has a long association with crime, and 589 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: it also has just the way it's structured, it has 590 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: a great potential to be exploited and corrupted. I mean, 591 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: think about it, right, I still I always think when 592 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: we spoke with Brian Tooey m boxing in particular, you 593 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: have a very small set of what we could think 594 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: of as players, primarily the two boxers, but we also 595 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: have just a few officials, right, And you know, a 596 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: fight can be one based on a decision by those 597 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: those officials. So if any one of those people is 598 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: convinced to take a dive, or if they're bribed to 599 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: go one way or another with a decision, then it 600 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: can be extraordinarily difficult to prove the fight was fixed, 601 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: Which means if you want to get into that business, 602 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: you have two cool sources of revenue. Now you can 603 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: generate a ton of money through gambling and rigged outcomes. 604 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: You can also launder a ton of dirty money because 605 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: it's gambling. So what's not to love? Like? It makes 606 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: sense to me? Um, I've never fixed the boxing match, 607 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: but I can see the appeal for certain certain people 608 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: in the industry, and the weird part of out it 609 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: is for fans of boxing and boxers themselves. You're probably 610 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: much better off now than you were in the nineteen 611 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: fifties when boxing was crazy dirty, Like the US Senate 612 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: investigated boxing. Uh, there's a there's a cool site we 613 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: found called the Ring that that has a neat anecdote 614 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: that I really think puts this in perspective. Sure. Here 615 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: it is the very era that many recall as one 616 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: of the sports true golden ages, was so brazenly filthy 617 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: and infested with gangsters and other ne'er dwells that the 618 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: January thirty one, nineteen fifty five issue of Sports Illustrated 619 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: concluded an investigative piece on the state of the sports 620 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: with the sentence, boxing today is a national scandal. Boxing today, 621 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: it's national scandal back in the nineteen fifties. So we 622 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: often note the relationship between large amounts of money and 623 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: corruption in multiple industries, right, and everything from investment banking 624 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 1: to reality TV the stock marketed course. Uh, even without 625 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: considering the Kinahan case specifically, it turns out boxing is 626 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,280 Speaker 1: no different. And that is a crying shame because boxers, 627 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: you know, the actual people, not the industry surrounding them, 628 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: are working their keysters off to be the best athletes 629 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: they can possibly be. And as we said earlier, you know, 630 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: there's there's a pretty compelling argument to make that boxing 631 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: is as much as science in some sense as it 632 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: is a sport. But you could say that there are 633 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: two fights for every bout. One is the fight between 634 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,919 Speaker 1: the people in the ring, and the other is the fight, 635 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: the ongoing fight that legitimate athletes and fans of the 636 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: sport have against incredibly powerful forces that seek to poison 637 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: the game they love. As we draw to a close here, 638 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: you know, Matt, obviously we have to point out at 639 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: this juncture there has been no accusation that Kinahan himself 640 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: is attempting to rig this the world's most important upcoming 641 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: boxing match, and in fact, Ireland is so scandalized by 642 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: his involvement that no one's really bothered to float the 643 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: possibility of him fixing a match or asked how likely 644 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 1: that might be. Given statements of industry professionals and athletes, 645 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: it seems like people in that industry, a lot of 646 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: people overwhelmingly trust him. So there there we find kind 647 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: of the morality that we were talking about at the top. 648 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's I get I get the sense. I 649 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: don't know if you feel this way. But I get 650 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 1: the sense that um, people believe Kinahan, regardless of what 651 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: else he does, probably holds the sport in very high 652 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: esteem and would react pretty adversely. I think it would 653 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: be offended if people said, hey, you're gonna fix this match, right, 654 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,879 Speaker 1: and he doesn't. Regardless what you believe, he doesn't seem 655 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: like the kind of person you would want to offend now, 656 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: just because of his power in the sport, right, It 657 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if he's associated with any organized crime, and 658 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:20,240 Speaker 1: he his word means something generally. And again here's another quote, 659 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: just when talking about his connections within the sport itself, 660 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: outside of anything else here, it is um. This is 661 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: a source that said it's harder to find a boxer 662 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: not linked to Kinahan than one who is. He dominates 663 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,320 Speaker 1: the boxing world and everyone knows it. Daniel Kinahan himself, 664 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: as well as the organization that he's allegedly involved with, 665 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 1: and the Hutch gang that is the one at odds 666 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: with the Kinahan cartel. It is weird to look at 667 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: events and the social media feeds of popular boxers and 668 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: m m A fighters. It is weird to see these 669 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: characters show up in selfies. They show up in behind 670 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 1: the scenes photographs of training. Um, it does feel like 671 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: there's a real connection there. Although you know, if you're 672 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: not in the guarda Guardia, if you're not in the 673 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: FBI or whatever, whoever, whatever organizations are investigating organized crime 674 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: groups like that, it's tough to know whether any of 675 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: it is real, whether just because they're associated in pictures, 676 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: just because their ringside, just because they, you know, own 677 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,479 Speaker 1: a gym, some organization owns a gym where important fighters train. 678 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's in on the same game, 679 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: but the connections and the associations, it's tough to to miss. Yeah, 680 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: well said, Well said. And for a deeper look at 681 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:51,280 Speaker 1: the Kinahan case of do check out the excellent BBC 682 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: Panorama documentary we talked about earlier. Uh. They argue that Kinahan, 683 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: regardless of his current association's auster present companies, continues to 684 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,520 Speaker 1: influence individual boxers and players in the industry on a 685 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: personal level. Like he's he is embedded in this um, 686 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: in this enterprise in such a way that it's very 687 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: difficult to take him out of it, you know. Uh. Also, 688 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: recent reports from March argued that kid Ahan might be 689 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: branching out the soccer football for of course the rest 690 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: of the world through the actions of his former company 691 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: m t K. But that's kind of sticky because again, 692 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: officially he cut ties and as the outcry over Fury 693 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:46,839 Speaker 1: and Kinahan's association grew, Fury ended up distancing himself from 694 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: Kinahan with Kinahan's blessing. By the way, the way it's portrayed, 695 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: it's it's got big mafia vibes, the way they the 696 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,839 Speaker 1: way they talk about it, you know, But a lot 697 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: of that might just be the reporters. That's that's another 698 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 1: part of it. So there we are, folks, the world 699 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: of boxing, the world of crime, the saga of Daniel 700 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: Kinahan and the Kinahan family. What do you think? Again, 701 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,359 Speaker 1: this is a fascinating story for us, but we keep 702 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: coming to it back to the fact that, you know, 703 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: this guy has never been convicted of anything, you know 704 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: what I mean? And do you is it fair to 705 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,320 Speaker 1: judge the sudden by the sins of the father. I 706 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it is, and 707 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: I don't think it is. But at the same time, 708 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,359 Speaker 1: there are dedicated law enforcement officers, investigators who believe that 709 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: this is what's happening. This is the thing, and there 710 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: has been a ton of bloodshed associated here um and 711 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: lives ruined and destroyed. And you know, that's a tough situation. 712 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: But it's really hard too because as a fan of 713 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: of combat sports, like I want to I want to 714 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: still be able to watch boxing matches in in m 715 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: m A fights and stuff, and it depending on how 716 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: deep this corruption is, maybe I shouldn't want to do that, 717 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 1: but dang it if I if I don't want to 718 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: tune in um dude, since the ever since The Ultimate Fighter, like, like, 719 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: I can't get enough of these things. And I don't 720 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,879 Speaker 1: know why. I don't know. I don't know. If it's 721 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,400 Speaker 1: just some deep thing inside of us as humans that 722 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 1: enjoy that the stakes of having two people like locked 723 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,919 Speaker 1: in a cage that have to battle with each other. 724 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: Maybe there's just something deep, deeply in our nature about that. 725 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 1: In my nature at least, I don't I don't want it. 726 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: I don't want it to go away because it's corrupt. 727 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,799 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a tough one. We'd love to 728 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: know what you think about all of that stuff. Agreed, Yeah, 729 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,240 Speaker 1: let us know. People who are familiar with the story. 730 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: People who are familiar with the sport. We'd like to 731 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: hear from you, and we try to make it easy 732 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: to find us online. Yeah, that's right. You can find 733 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Facebook where we are conspiracy Stuff. 734 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: On Instagram we are a conspiracy stuff show. If you 735 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: want to find us personally, Ben's got Twitter and Instagram going. 736 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: I think that's true. Yes, the rumors are true. You 737 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: can find me at Ben bolland h s W on Twitter, 738 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: uh the longtime listeners? Do you know what hs W means? 739 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 1: And you can also find me on Instagram where I 740 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: am named in a burst of creativity at Ben Bolan 741 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: bow L. I n how about you, Matt. You know, 742 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes you tell us about where to bind you 743 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: online and then sometimes you don't. I know, I I 744 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: this time, I'm not going to What I am going 745 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,320 Speaker 1: to say though, is the first time I ever met 746 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: the founder of that thing called hs W that you 747 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: just mentioned. I was on the set of a video 748 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,719 Speaker 1: called How Boxing Works, that's right, and it was the 749 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: first time I got to be DP or run run 750 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: the camera, essentially be the videographer on on a set 751 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: and it was great. We shot with an actual I 752 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: think he became a champion when we when we were 753 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: shooting with him, this boxer, he had just won some competition. Um, 754 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, but he was incredible anyway, 755 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: it's a weird, weird, weird thing. First video, are we 756 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 1: becoming sentimental Elder podcast stage? Well, if that's the case, 757 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 1: then hurry up and get to us before we before 758 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:33,319 Speaker 1: we expire, hopefully if natural non boxing related causes. If 759 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: you don't care for social media, you can call us directly. 760 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,479 Speaker 1: We have a phone number where one eight three three 761 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,879 Speaker 1: st d w y t K three minutes. Those three 762 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: minutes belong to you. Uh, tell us whatever is on 763 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,040 Speaker 1: your mind. We do ask you know that you include 764 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: the following things. Give us your name or a sick 765 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,040 Speaker 1: nickname and let us know we can use your voice 766 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,399 Speaker 1: or story on the air. Tell us what's up, give 767 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: us ideas for new episodes, and if there's something personal 768 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: that you want to just tell you know, keep between 769 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: you and our team. Then that's fine. Just throw it 770 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: in at the end. But most importantly, do not censor yourself. 771 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,840 Speaker 1: If you have a story that doesn't fit in three minutes, 772 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,200 Speaker 1: then tell us the whole thing, write it out, send 773 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 1: us an email. We read every email we get. You 774 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,400 Speaker 1: can find us whether you are in the ring or 775 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: out outside of the ring, at our good old fashioned 776 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,280 Speaker 1: email address where we are conspiracy at i heart radio 777 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is 778 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from 779 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 780 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.