WEBVTT - Filthy Tom Lawlor Back Again/RAW Review 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Hey, this is Brian Alvarez and this is today's edition 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:08.920 of the Wrestling Observer Daily podcast on the eight Side Network. Ready, 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.280 let's get it all, let's get on. We will Mike 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.840 Semper vv here with you for the next hour talking 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:21.840 professional wrestling and Nick's martial Arts. Don't worry about that 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.880 echo you heard in the background, that that doesn't really exist. 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.360 But even though we make mistakes here sometimes audio wise, 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.240 we are here with you every single day on the 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.800 Sports Pinline Broadcasting Network. And however you're joining me today, 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.599 tune and I heart American Forces Radio over the area. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.880 Affiliate's like the Mighty Er ten ninety Serious X podcast 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.720 streaming video on Twitter, on YouTube. I'd just like to 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:48.600 say thank you for spending a little bit of time 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.920 with me today. Once again, as you already know, Brian 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.960 Alvarez out on the ocean with Oreo and his family, 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.000 enjoying some time away from all of this nonsense that's 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.360 got to do with profession wrestling. And as a result, 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:03.680 for all of you a S m R kids out there, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.199 I get to bring back this for you. You ready, 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:12.440 quiet down there, you go now you can get excited. 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.240 You can also get excited over the fact that one 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.280 more time, joining me today as the co host on 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.759 this program, your new Japan strong open weight champion, Filthy 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.360 Tom Lawler is going to be here. You can find 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.240 him on Twitter at Filthy Tom Lawler. You can find 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.759 me at Semper viv, and you can find this show 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:33.959 at w O n F four W the broadcaster at 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.880 Sports Byline USA, And we're gonna have plenty to get 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:41.280 into today. Rawl was last night. Now. I don't know 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.560 if Filthy has been reviewing old Brian Alvarez shows on 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:50.280 Tuesday's of this show too, to try to gather up 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:54.280 the same type of of energy that Brian has to 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.240 to study his technique when he goes deep in and 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.840 bitches and moans and and and cuts these big rants 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.880 on RAW. Hopefully he has, because I don't have that 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.200 sort of thing. It actually really wasn't all that kind 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.359 of a show last night. The worst thing I can 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.000 say about that show was it was three hours long. 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.080 But there were some good moments to it. There were 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.120 some very questionable and confusing moments as well, sometimes in 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.200 the very same segment, but we'll get all into that. 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.520 Plenty of other things taking place as well too. Across 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.440 the the wrestling landscape that we're going to get into 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.200 the road to New Japan, and the Tokyo Dome is 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:34.919 well on its way, and we're gonna get into that too, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.880 as well as many other things. Possibly your phone calls. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.160 I would tend to doubt it, but maybe if so, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.760 we'll open those up for You'll give you that and 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:49.160 we'll be back. Rustin's over Alive. You need an accurate 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.080 thermometer to check for fever a potential sign of fluor covid. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.720 Be vigilant and contact your medical provider at the first 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.680 sign of fever. Exrogen Temporal Scanner thermometer has been proven 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:05.280 accurate in more than one clinical studies. Exogen Temporal scanners 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.959 are available at Walmart and other fine retailers. Learn more 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.679 at xrogen dot com. That's e x E R G 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.000 e N dot com. Xrogen is changing the way the 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:23.000 world takes temperature. Do you own an annuity either fixed 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.360 rate indextra variable? Are you paying high fees and getting 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.720 low returns? 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Call now eight hundred seven six oh 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.040 one eight four five, eight hundred seven six oh one 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.920 eight four five eight hundred seven six oh one eight 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:25.600 four five. That's eight hundred seven six oh eight. You 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:29.120 were listening to Wrestling Observer Live with Brian Alvarez and 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:34.359 Mike semper viv on the Sports Byline Broadcasting Network. Back 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.240 on the show Wresting Observer Live, Mike semper viv here, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.479 whether you're sitting in the big Boy hosting chair for 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:43.240 Brian Alvarez this week filling in my spot, somebody who 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.080 can do that far better than I can. Filthy Tom 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.839 Lawler once again back on the show today, filthy, what's 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.599 going on? Thanks for the introduction, Mike. You can blame 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.640 that very early audio mishap on myself, your co host, 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.760 but although you're not gonna do that because we unlike 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.960 your usual cost you and I get along, but you 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.479 can blame that on me. As I am not used 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:09.600 to these terrestrial airwaves. I should say I'm more used 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.840 to the extra terrestrial side of the radio airwaves on 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.760 Figure four daily. But thank you once again. I'm here 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:24.360 on Rusting Observer Live, the flagship, the mothership of the Empire. Absolutely, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.640 you know, and we're gonna get into Raw. Last night. 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:31.800 I do have a drop from from yesterday's show that 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.440 we may be playing a little bit later on. It 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:39.000 was from from Raw and it was, believe it or not, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:43.400 Maurice talking about her husband and how obnoxious he is. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.839 And I tell you what, I don't know full plate 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.719 or not, but they were It sounded very familiar. It 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.640 kind of sounded like what it was like what it 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.880 is like doing a show with Brian Alvarez. So that's 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:57.560 maybe maybe we'll go ahead and play that, but we 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.520 do have Raw to get into. But before we do that, 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.720 there are some other things taking place inside the world 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.920 of wrestling, not the least of which is New Japan 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.840 who at home in Japan, they are readying themselves for 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.040 three days of the Russell Kingdom Experience two at the 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:19.960 Tokyo Dome one, facing off against Noah but but Tom. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:27.160 They did actually announced yesterday that Sunday, March St. Petersburg, Florida, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.719 the Greater Tampa area, tickets are going to go on 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.359 sale January three for New Japan Strong Style Evolved. No 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.119 talent has been announced on the show yet. But going 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.680 back to Florida, A, when's the last time you were 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:47.240 there stomping around? I haven't been there in a few years. Actually, 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.120 the last time I was there was without to kill 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:55.360 k feb too much. It was filthy Island actually, uh 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:00.479 so whenever that was a year or two ago. Um, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:05.560 there has been no talent announced, But it's what fighting 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.159 What is it fighting spirit of Strong Style Evolved? But 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:15.440 they keep mentioning someone being unchained fighting spirit unchained, which 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.560 the only unchained man I can think of is Maca 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:24.360 Bay chained guerrilla who has not been over here in 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.080 a long time. But I don't know if there that's 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.280 a reference to something I don't know if maybe are 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:34.160 the chains gonna be off that gigantic beast jonah by 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.000 then who knows what what it's a reference to. And 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.480 A Strong is already been announced to be returning to 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.600 the Vermont Hollywood in l A in February as well too, 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.080 for a a strong taping New Japan Strong Rivals that's 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.000 gonna take place on Thursday, February seventeen. Uh. You obviously 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.920 as champion of the entire darn thing and the greatest 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:58.840 man they have going there is going to be on 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.080 that show. The man you just vanquished, Fred Rosser also there, 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.720 j White, Juice Robinson, David Finley, as well as others. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:10.000 But we've seen Tom here, Rashi come over. Obviously, Shabbata 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.440 has been over here doing what he does. We've had 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.360 Minora Szuki come over on excursions. We have had a 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.360 handful of guys come over. You brought up maccabee's name, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.600 and obviously for men of our age, people that have 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:29.800 been watching New Japan for a few generations now, of 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.120 young talent that has gone through their Maco Bay, we 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.440 have watched basically come up as a skinny guy named 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:41.400 Shinya and then develop into what became the im g 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.840 P heavyweight champion, and he certainly has got a following 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.360 and a style, and uh, he's a guy that a 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.800 lot of American fans really appreciate. He was one of 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.800 the big guys coming up with you know, Tanahashi and 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.520 nakam Wara and guys at that time. You know, Shinya Macabay, 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.880 Toky Macabey was always is right there. Have you ever 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.440 had any you know, what have your interactions if you've 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.600 had any, been with him? And who would you like 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.600 to see him over here? You know, not only Marcobay, 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.320 but some other names that you may want to see 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.560 him over here that you'd like to roll around with 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:20.600 and learn something from. I've had zero interaction with Maco 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.680 Bay aside from watching him dump people on their heads 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.960 with Spider German suplexes and then King Kong knee drops. Uh. 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:31.680 But that's a guy that I would like to see 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.880 come over here. I think that's somebody who the American 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:40.319 fans would appreciate as uh having some sort of legendary status. 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:46.120 He's a former i w g P heavyweight champion. Uh. 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:54.199 I myself would love to russell Zack Saber Jr. Obviously, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:10:00.920 and now that Shabbata is back in the ring seemingly 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.520 that is undoubtedly somebody that I would like to get 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.040 my hands on. I would have liked to fight Shabbata 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:14.800 back in his dream days, uh Big Math Aloud days, 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:20.520 kind of his mixed martial arts days. So this is 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.920 kind of a a fight fifteen years in the making. 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.000 The way I look at it, did you ever did 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.840 you care that member that? Because look there for a 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.160 lot of people really they don't understand, you know, they 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.040 Choo and Hashimoto in in Muda. You know, people think 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.240 about those guys together, but a lot of American fans 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:45.840 really don't understand like how big Hashimoto was in relation 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.800 to Chono in Muda in Japan, and when it comes 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.480 to Catsiori Shibata, he was one of the three Musketeers 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.920 alongside Nakamura and Tanahashi. But because of the landscape of 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.360 Japanese wrestling, because of what Shabata wanted to do both 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:06.480 shoot style and you know it fights, you know, real 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:11.559 actual mm A fights. You know, he obviously left the 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.200 nest and decided to go with y Station and and 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.080 try to do Big math Aloud and try to do 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.200 some other things what did you think about Shabbata then? 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.240 Obviously being involved in mixed martial arts, being involved in 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.720 wrestling and starting your fight career, were you able to 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.640 keep track of him and then and we're promotions like that, 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.840 something that we're on your radar, you know, other or 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.439 was it just pretty much Rings and things like that 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.560 and you didn't worry about those other groups? Well, I 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.440 mean by then Rings that kind of fallen, you know, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.960 largely by the wayside. Most of the good talent that 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.760 Rings had, like fad Or and Minnotoro who they kind 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.839 of developed through the King of Kings tournaments, had moved 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.600 on to pride Um. But yeah, I was well aware 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.839 of what was going on in New Japan at the time. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.439 I was well aware of what was looked to be 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:09.360 a huge future, a huge push for Shabbata and then 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.880 you know, the kind of the turn that his career 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.920 took um to me, I looked at it at that 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:19.000 time as a huge risk. Obviously, you know, uh, his 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.679 status um and you know, his father's status in New 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.839 Japan previously kind of helped elevate him, you know, right 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.560 off the bat to a certain a certain level, and 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.440 that kind of carried on into m m A. Because 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:37.920 he has some big fights right off the bat, if 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:46.560 I remember correctly, who do you knock out Yamamoto? Very qui? Yeah? Yeah, So, 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.280 uh he was given, you know, some good opportunities right 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.599 off the bat and um, you know, I think that 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.959 both New Japan at the time and you know later 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:02.360 on dream uh try really you know kind of to 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.200 give him these opportunities. And um, it's interesting the way 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:10.120 obviously that it ended up turning out. And this story 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:14.600 is far far from done seemingly, you know, everybody thought 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:19.480 that this book was closed, and instead it's just a 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.920 chapter that ended. And now Shabbata is back. So uh, 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:30.240 he's overcome I guess adversity in a lot of ways, uh, 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.200 throughout his career, and I don't think this is gonna 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.920 be any different. You know, a lot of fans looked 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.000 at him. He's a different style and coming back to 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.560 kind of what New Japan had done. Uh, he had 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.680 to earn his way back into their good graces and 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:50.960 he's definitely done that. He has. And I want you 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.960 to ponder something as we go to break. How do 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.959 you bring Shabbata back? What should his match be? Should 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.440 there be any limitations? Who should he face. That's what 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.440 I want to know from filthy Tom Lawler when we 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:21.240 get back on this edition of Wrestling Observer Live. Go 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.720 back into the show, Mike Samber VV here whether your 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:28.480 filthy Tom Lawler completely professional radio here Today Sports Piline 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.720 Broadcasting Network Wrestling Observer Live. Tom, I put you in 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.920 a an enviable position before the break, having you call 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.880 out what match Shabbata San should be in. Should there 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.320 be differing rules like he had against Zack Saber Jr. 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.840 Just grappling only he says his head is ready. What 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.160 do you do if it was up to you and 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.560 it can't be you, because I know that's who you 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.960 would take if it was up to you. What do 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.080 you do with with the catsy or Shabbata or or 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.240 do you even try to do what he thing with 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.160 Shabbata and just let him go out there and do 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:06.840 what he wants. Well, I don't really have much inside 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:11.280 information despite being the reigning defending New Japan Strong open 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.680 Weight Champion of the world, but including the title win 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.600 which over Broder kings like seven wins and title matches, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.160 but who's counting? Uh. It appears to me that on 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.560 the first night when Shabbata is stepping back into the ring. 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.360 Suzuki does not have a matchup, so has been theorized 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.960 that it will be Minoru Suzuki against Shabbata, which who 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:44.120 in their right mind would turn that down? But I 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:48.040 actually would go in a different direction, and I would 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:52.160 pick someone a little bit closer to home. I guess 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:58.920 I would say, uh, someone who has assumed the form 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.840 of Shabada in many ways, and I would have run 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:07.760 Narita step in against Catsy or Shabbata. As it is 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.880 kind of clear if you follow to Japan that he 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.800 is set up to be the at least spiritual successor 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.800 of Shabbata in many ways. It sounds like a great idea, 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:24.360 sounds like a fantastic idea. Now again, you're not in 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:29.040 a position to kind of is there an actually you 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.880 know what? Yes, I will press you what is there? 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.240 Are there any tidbits that you can give people as 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.600 far as Shabbata goes, because he has talked about the 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.760 fact that you know what my head has, you know, 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.680 my skull healed, it is stronger than ever. Yes, there 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.800 are concerns about me taking punches. That's why I was 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.240 not in there was Zax Saber Jr. Doing that. But 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.000 from what you have seen of Shabbata, as hard as 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:55.520 he works, I mean, does it look like there's any 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.040 limitations to him at all? And obviously we can't see 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.280 inside of his head. We're not neurologist or any of 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.360 that sort of thing. But when you see him training, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.280 is there any pause? Is there any thought that this 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.040 person is not you know, turning back time and is 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:16.080 just the super athlete that he always was. I mean, 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.600 you have to take what I'm going to say with, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.280 you know, a grain of salt, because I've been around 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.639 Shabbata on and off, you know, at shows and stuff 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.960 for a few years now, and I did have the 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.960 fortune of going to the dojo, but it's not as 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:36.400 if I'm there all the time. I you know, when 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.800 I was there and everybody was training, he was in 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.640 the ring training, he was doing everything that the other 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.440 wrestlers were doing. He went through the training session, then 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.679 he lifted weights afterwards just as hard as everybody else was. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.399 And when you see the guy, he's in phenomenal shape. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.800 He's in, you know, just as good as shape as 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.680 any of the other guys that are in that dojo. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.960 So I don't think that he's gonna show much in 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.640 the way of slowing down or signs of slowing down. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.040 I think it's gonna be similar to what we kind 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.639 of saw against Zach Saber Jr. Perhaps his style is 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.960 a little bit more tailored to grappling and a little 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:21.399 bit less based upon very hard strikes. But I can't 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.880 say that with any sort of certainty. I mean, if 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.760 you've watched upon his career, and I think you could 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.920 say that with any sort of certainty, so um, it'll be. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.760 It'll be wild to see. But I'm looking forward to, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:37.080 you know, either just being an innocent bystander and watching 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.800 him come back and apply his craft, or if I 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.240 have the opportunity to get in there and fight him, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.760 like I said, obviously, i'd love too. Did you ever 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.040 think that for a guy that did like rings, for 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:52.919 a guy that did like Amberateh for wrestling, for a 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:57.879 guy that loves matt Work, appreciates that understands these transitions, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.720 understands all of that sort of stuff, and loves this, 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.400 did you ever think that we would see in America 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.280 kind of where we're at right now in the landscape, 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.400 Because I know I didn't when it came to guys 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.640 like Lee Moriarty, Jonathan Greesha and fred Ya hi Uh 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:20.800 you know, Josh Alexander, men like this that for so long, 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.600 you know, I never thought would really truly get their due. 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.200 They seem to be getting their due now. And it's 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.199 because of men like you. It's because of promotions like 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:34.720 New Japan Strong, It's because of just seemingly a I 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.640 don't know what it is. I never thought that this 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.600 would make it to the level where we're at. We're 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.879 like legitimate, real pro wrestling that makes sense and is 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.840 still entertaining, you know, is at the forefront, and it's 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.000 it's almost amazing. And I take a big l on 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.720 that because I never thought that we would be able 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:54.600 to to talk about it and appreciate it in the 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.000 way that we are. Did you ever have any of 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.280 those concerns? Did you ever care about any of that 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.280 sort of stuff, or did you just always know you 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.320 were going to do your thing and the rest of 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.520 the world was going to catch up. I think that 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.760 we can give a lot of the credit to the 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.679 rise of mixed martial arts. I mean, it's very very simple, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.760 because remember miss Martial Arts was gonna kill everything. That's 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.480 what everybody, you know, everybody interview would start with, well 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.080 if if if M M A was around when you started, 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.159 what would you be doing? I mean it's like everything 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.920 was starting like that. Think about little simple things like 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.840 the strikes that we see now in American wrestling compared 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.600 to the strikes that we saw before the rise of 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:41.920 mixed martial arts. Think about the inventing, inventing I don't 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.480 know if that's even the correct term, but the invention 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.399 of tapping out what was it before you cry? Uncle? 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.680 You'd be screaming. Guys would be beating the matt repeatedly, 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.879 and that just that simple. You know, change in the 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.199 rule set added a whole new dynamic to it and 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.080 made it more of a you know, really more of 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.720 a sporting uh contest. But it allows people to work 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.399 differently when they were in submission holes as opposed before, 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.639 and it added a level of drama that wasn't there before. Um. 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:19.840 I myself loved, love, loved the w c W Cruiserweight division. 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:21.720 You want to know what if you watched me wrestle, 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.600 but I absolutely loved it because it was something different 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.720 and you know who my favorite guy was in that 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.120 cruiseweight division. When I first saw Mike, it was Dean 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.840 ma Lincoln because he not only was he doing something 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.439 in not only just by being in the cruiseweight division 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.119 was he doing something different, but he was doing something 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.119 different than all of the other cruiserweights we're doing. And 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.240 he was doing matt wrestling, and he was doing submissions 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:52.639 and they were dynamic. They were, you know, similar to 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:57.080 moves that the heavy weights were doing, but you know 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.159 they were just he was just that much better than 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.000 everybody else because that's just that much more fluid and 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.120 wrestlers like that. Um, you know, I think that's kind 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.119 of timeless. Bret Hart. Right, look at the quote that 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.919 Brett Hart just had. He said, guys don't wrestle like 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:19.520 whole Cogan anymore. They wrestle like Bret Hart. Hallelujah, hallelujah. 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.640 Absolutely right. And you know we're seeing more and more 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.080 promotions pop. I just saw the deal with Jonathan Gresham 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.000 and you know, starting up his promotion a Terminus, you know, 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.600 and with Baron Black and now it's gonna be lethal 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.520 and more. He Harney, It's like that's gonna debut their 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.240 first show, that's gonna be taking place in Atlanta. In 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:42.080 in January and also announced for that show. You know 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.480 we've got uh you know, Kara Hogan is gonna face 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.360 Jordan Grace, but you know they've already announced. Alex Coglan 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:51.280 is going to be there, Daniel Garcia is going to 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.359 be there, Freddy Ahi is gonna be there, Tracy Williams 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:56.679 is going to be here. Here's another guy that that 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:00.119 obviously fits into that as well too. And like you, 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:05.320 for me, Dean Milenko, he was a you know, a 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.160 huge revelation for me. You know, you saw the name, 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.840 but I didn't have access to all Japan tapes. I 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.239 didn't see small indies where Joe and Dean Milenko were on. 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.200 So to see Dean Milenko the first time you saw him, 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.199 at least for me, doing what he was doing in 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.960 the ring and being able to work with everybody, whether 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.480 it was Ultimo Dragon, where it was Hooven to whether 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:30.840 it was Ben Wah or Jericho or whoever. He was great. 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.480 And the crazy part is it may kind of sound 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.560 like a joke, but Adam and Somers and I talked 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:38.760 about this. When it comes up on the Big Audio Nightmare, 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:42.800 It's like Dean Milenko was over like Dean Milenko got 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.880 over with that w c W crowd by being a 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.600 wrestler and by being who he was. And yes, he 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.879 was a great foil for these high flying characters and 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.639 some of these cool personalities like the Jericho's and the Mysterios. 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:58.120 You know, he was a perfect foil for those type 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.119 of guys. But he was out standing and got over 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.320 because of his work, and I don't think people really 0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:07.080 give him enough credit for that at a time where 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:09.399 I mean it was really difficult in the Land of 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.040 the Giants and in the land where on both sides 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:13.560 of the ledger he had that going on, he had 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:16.040 e c W, it was very hard to stand out. 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:19.800 Did it didn't really go win the p W I 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:25.679 five and people thought it was crazy. But it's like 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:30.040